'I Feel Re-Famous': Rosie O'Donnell on Her Return to New York

After moving to Ireland at the start of President Donald Trump’s second term, Rosie O’Donnell is back in the U. S. to stage her one-woman show in New York and guest host “Jimmy Kimmel Live!” at the end of the month. While she’s taken some time out of the spotlight, Rosie remains an outspoken critic of the president and his policies at a time when a lot of public figures have gone quiet. Kara and Rosie talk about why she decided to turn her life into a theater production, the joys and challenges of raising a child with autism, and the new energy she’s found in her 60s. They also talk about why Rosie continues to speak out against Trump despite the personal costs. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hello, Donny. Know you're watching. Donny, it's me, Rosie, showing up on ABC. I want to do like a little love song, like you got a crush. Donny, it's too much. I hear you're leaving Melania for me.

• 0:29Kara Swisher?

  Hi, everyone. From New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network, this is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is the one and only Rosie O'Donnell. She's staging a limited run of her one-woman play in New York right now. It's called Common Knowledge, and it's a deeply personal look at her recent move to Ireland, the challenges of parenting, and the death of her mother just before she turned 11 years old. Of course, the show also touches on a decades-long feud with President Donald Trump. Rosie was one of the very first people to challenge his image as a self-made billionaire back in 2006, when she was co-host of The View. She hasn't stopped since. I don't expect her to pull any punches when she guest-hosts Jimmy Kimmel Tonight later this month. But Rosie is a lot more than just a critic of Trump. She's won 11 Emmy Awards and one Tony Award.

• 1:14Kara Swisher?

  Her career spans comedy, daytime television, film, and advocacy, as well as theater. And she's never been afraid to say what she really thinks, even when it comes at a personal cost. And she's also had a lot of personal issues throughout her life that she talks about a lot. I think she's a really interesting character, and she's morphed and changed over the years. But one of the things she is, is often right about people like Donald Trump. And she's willing to go out on a limb to talk about it. All right, let's get to my conversation with Rosie O'Donnell. Our expert question comes from retired soccer star, podcast host, and activist Megan Rapinoe. Rosie is a legend. You won't want to miss our conversation, so stick around.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's fall drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy-to-layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.

• 2:30Speaker 03

  I'm Ina Garten, and each week on Happy Hour, I invite new and old friends for a drink and a fun conversation at my kitchen table in New York City. On this week's episode, I'm joined by Julia Louis-Dreyfus. We talk all about attending a fashion show in Paris together, throwing dinner parties, and making her Broadway debut in other desert cities. New episodes of Happy Hour are available every Wednesday. You can watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts. Cheers.

• 3:07Speaker 04

  What do we do when politics gets in the way of friendship?

• 3:10Speaker 05

  I think it's a travesty that people are losing relationships over politics. And I just look at that and think, how does it go when you don't talk to each other?

• 3:18Speaker 04

  I'm Preet Bharara, and this week, psychologist, author, and warden professor Adam Grant joins me to discuss why we're so disconnected, a topic he explores at length in his new book, Vibe: The Secrets of Strong Connections in a Lonely World. The episode is out now. Search and follow Stay Tuned with Preet wherever you get your podcasts.

• 3:44Kara Swisher?

  Rosie, thanks for coming on On.

• 3:46Speaker 00

  My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

• 3:48Kara Swisher?

  I'm so thrilled you're here in person.

• 3:49Speaker 00

  Well, I was very far downtown.

• 3:51Kara Swisher?

  Yes, I know it's far down here, but it's nice. You can come visit. You can go see the stock exchange.

• 3:55Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 3:55Kara Swisher?

  If you feel like that, stuff like that.

• 3:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, the bull.

• 3:57Kara Swisher?

  You can jump on the Staten Island Ferry if you feel like it.

• 4:00Speaker 00

  It can be the very tip of New York.

• 4:01Kara Swisher?

  The very tip of New York. Anyway, welcome back to the US after moving to Dublin earlier this year. You sort of did an opposite Statue of Liberty thing and went the other direction.

• 4:10Speaker 00

  Right.

• 4:11Kara Swisher?

  I just curious, what's the first stop you wanted to make when you got back to New York, other than seeing your kids and your new grandson? Congratulations, bud.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  You know, I wanted to see Broadway. I mean, that's really my love of New York is, you know, wrapped up in that. And I've been to see so many shows since I got here a couple of weeks ago. And I've seen Jellicle Ball three times.

• 4:30Kara Swisher?

  I took my kids to it this weekend.

• 4:32Speaker 00

  Wasn't it unbelievable?

• 4:33Kara Swisher?

  Unbelievable.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  And it's a lesson in gay history and ballroom and perseverance and minority presence in the world.

• 4:43Kara Swisher?

  And it works for cats.

• 4:44Speaker 00

  And it works.

• 4:45Kara Swisher?

  Finally, cats work.

• 4:46Speaker 00

  Right, because Cats was just poems without a book.

• 4:49Kara Swisher?

  It also was a little annoying.

• 4:50Speaker 00

  It was a little annoying, redundant, right? When they went on you in the audience and like licked you. It was like, this is very immersive in 1980.

• 4:58Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, and so you, theater, theater is where you go first.

• 5:01Speaker 00

  Theater is where I go first. And then, you know, my old haunts like Joe Allen's and, you know, Nobu and theater. And, you know, I mean, that's what New York is to me. And I really love it. And the people have been, you know, so great, you know? People now, when I'm getting in a cab, stop their car and scream out the window. I'm like, right, I'm like, what is this, 30 years ago? Like, I feel re-famous. It feels like I left when I did in 2002. And then I moved to Ireland, and with the help of Mango Mussolini, have become re-famous. And I just find it very interesting. I think people really want nostalgia.

• 5:44Speaker 00

  They want people with their voices and power to stand up to what's happening in our country.

• 5:49Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 5:49Speaker 00

  And they really respect you, as I'm sure you get all the time, for doing it.

• 5:53Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, so let's talk about Common Knowledge, because it's a lot about that. It's about Mango Mussolini. We'll get to him. We're going to talk about him, which is why you're back. It's an autobiographical show about your move to Ireland. But it's also about parenting, motherhood, losing your mom before you turn 11. And I lost my dad when I was five, so I completely relate. No matter what age you lose a parent is a tough thing. But when you're very young, it's sort of a loss that is forever.

• 6:17Speaker 00

  I agree.

• 6:17Kara Swisher?

  And you become highly functional. We talked about how grief sometimes surprises you, because I think that was a lovely part of that show.

• 6:24Speaker 00

  You know, the beginning of the show was written when I was in Ireland, because I kept seeing women in their 90s who looked like my mother's face. Like, my mother was very Irish, 100% Irish. And she looked like a lot of these older women that I see. And I started thinking, God, this is what it would have been like to have my mother now. And, you know, in America, I didn't see a lot of people that looked like her. But in Ireland, I saw many. And I started writing about the day she died.

• 6:56Kara Swisher?

  Yes, the last time you spoke to her.

• 6:58Speaker 00

  And the last time she spoke to me is the end. The beginning is the day she died and what happened as a result. And, you know, that's a grief that doesn't end, as you were saying. And I remember Nora Ephron used to say to me, is that the defining emotional moment of your life? And I'm like, it is.

• 7:16Kara Swisher?

  Yes.

• 7:17Speaker 00

  It is. It doesn't go away.

• 7:18Kara Swisher?

  Never.

• 7:19Speaker 00

  You know, and she had two parents who were very successful, and she never experienced that. So I think people who haven't, it's hard for them to relate. And when people like you tell me their story, I think right away, oh, I get them. They get me.

• 7:33Kara Swisher?

  Well, it's not a day goes by.

• 7:35Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 7:35Kara Swisher?

  Someone explained it to me, that half the people in your life died one day. That's the same kind of impact.

• 7:41Speaker 00

  Right.

• 7:42Kara Swisher?

  It's all about omission, what you missed, right?

• 7:44Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 7:44Kara Swisher?

  And everything else. And I thought you effectively talked about that. And was being in Ireland, or is that you thought of her more? Because you've been trying to make it for a decade, right?

• 7:55Speaker 00

  Yes, yes.

• 7:56Kara Swisher?

  As you said, and you couldn't do it until now. So what about moving to Ireland unlocked it? Was it just seeing people like that? Or taking you out of this country to find an emotional space?

• 8:05Speaker 00

  I think it was taking out of the country and take out of the presence of all the problems that are occurring now and have been since he's been on the scene.

• 8:15Speaker 00

  It was noise in my head. You know, I'm on Monjaro and have been for three years, and all people talk about the food noise. Well, I had some Trump noise for a long time, for 20 years. And every time I thought, okay, it's going to die down now, it would be kicked back up by him, you know? And... It felt like too much. And when I got there, I found peace in a way. And the welcome from the people was shocking and startling. And I was very moved by their acceptance. People would see me and say, you're welcome home. You're welcome here, Rosie. Glad to have you in Ireland. Nobody would say, could I have your autograph? Could I have a picture? Everyone was just seeing me as an individual, not as a celebrity. And it's not a fame culture there. People don't really care.

• 9:00Speaker 00

  And I tell the story in the show about a couple. They knew who I was. We were, we were at the Beer Garden and our kids were playing. And we had like a two hour dinner. And right as I was leaving, they said, by the way, Rosie, we're big fans. And I said, oh, you didn't want to bring it up till right now when I'm leaving? And they said, well, surely it's not the most important thing now, is it? And I thought, oh, my God, if that isn't the line that defines my being here.

• 9:25Kara Swisher?

  Talk a little bit about the move to Ireland, because one of the things you said also was a lot of celebrities threaten, you know, or public people. I'm going to leave this country if this happens.

• 9:33Speaker 00

  If this happens.

• 9:34Kara Swisher?

  You did it.

• 9:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, it came when I read Project 2025. And I couldn't believe that everyone didn't read it. And when I realized that they were bold enough to print what their intentions were, I knew it was time to leave. I really felt very threatened as the mother of an autistic child, as the mother of a non-binary child, and as a gay woman myself. I thought, this is fascism, pure and simple. And, you know, I never, ever even liked to travel. I like being around my kids. I like being around my family. I'm not a big traveler, you know? And so the concept that I would move, my friends and family didn't even believe me.

• 10:17Kara Swisher?

  Oh, they didn't believe that you would do it?

• 10:18Speaker 00

  No, I told my siblings and they were like, my brother Eddie's like, there's no way you're going to go to Ireland. You, you wouldn't go to the Bahamas, you know? And I was like, well, and I did. And I felt I had to. There was no, there was no decision to make. Once I read that, I was like, we have to go if he gets in.

• 10:37Kara Swisher?

  So you, you, you said, had you stayed, you'd have immersed in another Trump administration. You also didn't think he was going to win, but you would have been able to emotionally be present for your teenage child, Clay. Talk about that relationship. And, and what have you learned as a parent that maybe wasn't as obvious when you were in the States?

• 10:55Speaker 00

  Well, I learned that the public school in Ireland, which is so inclusive of all different times of children, that that is a better environment than just surrounded by neurodivergent children for my child. Now, every kid with autism is different, but this public school has been unbelievably beneficial for her. Now, you know, the crossing guard told me that she-

• 11:22Kara Swisher?

  This is, this, explain the crossing guard.

• 11:24Speaker 00

  It's a lollipop lady. Her name is Angela. And she knew every kid's name in that school. And she said to me after a couple of days of me dropping her off and picking her up. She said, do you notice, Rosie, she walks in front of you? I said, yeah, she likes to get home early and she likes to get to the school early. No, she's embarrassed of you. And I was like, what the hell is this woman telling me? And, you know, sure enough, I, I said, well, I'm from New York. She's like, you're not in New York now, Rosie O'Donnell, or whoever you are. Because she didn't believe it was me.

• 11:53Kara Swisher?

  That's right. You look like Rosie O'Donnell.

• 11:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, you look like her. And, you know, so I took that to heart. I really did. And she started walking with her friends to school, which in LA is not even a possibility. And in New York, I would never allow, you know? I have fears in New York that I don't have in Ireland. It's one of the safest countries in Europe. And I just fell in love with our life there, the smallness of our life there. And the genuine interactions that I was able to have with people that I'm not always able to have in the United States because of my notoriety.

• 12:29Kara Swisher?

  Talk a little bit about talking about your daughter. Do you say daughter?

• 12:32Speaker 00

  No, she says, they prefer child.

• 12:34Kara Swisher?

  Child.

• 12:35Speaker 00

  Right, my child.

• 12:36Kara Swisher?

  Autism.

• 12:37Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 12:37Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 12:38Speaker 00

  Well, at two years old, I had her tested, them tested. They go by they/them, but it's very difficult. So you're going to see me struggle.

• 12:46Kara Swisher?

  Oh, I know.

• 12:46Speaker 00

  Right, okay.

• 12:47Kara Swisher?

  I'm saying, we're the same, we're close to the same age. We try our best.

• 12:50Speaker 00

  I know, but it's very hard. So I was kind of shocked when they said they had autism, even though I knew they did because they were so verbal. It was ridiculous how verbal they were at 10 months, able to form sentences.

• 13:05Kara Swisher?

  That was fascinating. I didn't know about that, what you mentioned in the show.

• 13:07Speaker 00

  Hyperlexia, that's what they have, where their vocabulary is extraordinary and at a college level in third grade. And, you know, it's disarming to see a little tiny child come up and conjugate all these verbs and multiple-

• 13:20Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, Doogie Howser you, yeah.

• 13:21Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 13:22Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 13:22Speaker 00

  Totally. And when they told me that they had autism, I panicked. And then I realized, faith or fear? You have two choices in every big decision. You're going to be afraid or are you going to have faith that we're going to figure it out? We're going to have faith. We're going to figure it out, you know? And I never lied to my kid. I, I definitely didn't want them to be ashamed. They're very proud. They wear shirts that say, this is what an autistic person looks like. Or they wear a shirt a lot that says, ew, people, which I think is the funniest T-shirt that they own.

• 14:01Kara Swisher?

  That's a good autism.

• 14:01Speaker 00

  Right. And, you know, it's challenging, but it's also quite beautiful and poignant and in ways that I never expected.

• 14:11Kara Swisher?

  Did you consult them when you were doing the show? Because I, I have one of my kids who calls me a sharent, and so I stopped.

• 14:19Speaker 00

  Wow, that you share everything.

• 14:20Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, sharent. Don't be a sharent.

• 14:22Speaker 00

  Oh, that's interesting.

• 14:23Kara Swisher?

  One doesn't care, the other's young. I have two little ones and two older ones. And, because I always like to joke, I'm a straight white man. I have a second family essentially. And they all get along great. But my, one of my kids, I, I took it to heart, like, I, you know, not talking about him or I am talking right now. But I thought he was right. It definitely stopped me. Did you talk to Clay about this?

• 14:46Speaker 00

  What's interesting is that the first four, who are between 23 and 31, they didn't have any option. Because I was on TV and that was my life. And as an artist, you mold the clay in front of you, so to speak. And, and that's what I was doing. So when I was on-

• 15:03Kara Swisher?

  And before social media.

• 15:04Speaker 00

  Yes, before social media. So I wrote out the play and we were flying home from Ireland for a visit or something. And, and I fell asleep and I wake up and their arms are folded and they're looking at me. And they go, you think it's okay to tell stories about me in your show? I don't want to be in your stupid show. And I said, well, you know what, honey? I can only write about my life. And for the last 13 years, my life has been about you and me. It's like she's an only child because the other ones are growing out. And it's been a very different experience. And, you know, to not be partnered while you do it too. It's just me and her.

• 15:45Speaker 00

  So she finally said she understood and it was okay for this, but that she doesn't know if she's giving me permission in perpetuity.

• 15:52Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 15:52Speaker 00

  I said, okay, sweetheart, I get it.

• 15:54Kara Swisher?

  A lawsuit is pending.

• 15:55Speaker 00

  But when I read it and rehearse in the house, I hear her from another room going, that's not true. I never said that. That is a blatant exaggeration, mom. I was not used that word, like, so-

• 16:10Kara Swisher?

  And you fix it?

• 16:11Speaker 00

  No, I don't. I leave it as it is because, you know, that's all I can do. But they're pretty good about giving me the space, you know? They are an artist and they draw really, really well. And I say, you know, when you sit down to draw, you draw what inspires you.

• 16:30Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 16:30Speaker 00

  When I sit down and write, I write what inspires me. And in many ways, Clay, this show is a love letter to you.

• 16:37Kara Swisher?

  No, it's very touching. It's, I, I can't imagine Clay wouldn't find it touching.

• 16:41Speaker 00

  Oh, no interest in seeing it.

• 16:43Kara Swisher?

  Oh, really?

• 16:43Speaker 00

  No interest.

• 16:44Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, my kids don't listen to my podcast either.

• 16:46Speaker 00

  They will not watch a movie. In fact, my oldest boy, who just had a baby, when he was about 18, he came home, he goes, I was at Joey's. And there was this baseball movie on and you were like a teenager? And you were talking like you were Sylvester Stallone? And you were not very good. And I said, thank you, honey. That's my most famous movie. And you've never seen it and you're 18.

• 17:09Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, my kids do the same thing.

• 17:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:11Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, and especially when I interview someone big and then someone else interviews them, they're like, I really liked that interview, that person. I'm like, you know, I did that three years ago.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, right.

• 17:20Kara Swisher?

  They don't care. Oh, they don't care.

• 17:21Speaker 00

  But it's better that they don't care, don't you think?

• 17:22Kara Swisher?

  Let me, let me bring you to something. You don't know, but we have met before.

• 17:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't remember. I'm sorry about that.

• 17:27Kara Swisher?

  It's okay. You were playing Rizzo in Grease and you were in Washington DC. And I wrote the theater column. And you and I had, I did an interview with you-

• 17:35Speaker 00

  Lot, person to person?

• 17:36Kara Swisher?

  Person to person, in person. I forget the hotel. It was probably the Four Seasons in Georgetown. I'm not sure where they put you. But you and I had an argument about coming out. Because you were very aware it was gay, I think.

• 17:47Speaker 00

  Well, I, I've been gay my whole life, so I can spot another gay person a mile away.

• 17:51Kara Swisher?

  You can spot a gay.

• 17:52Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 17:52Kara Swisher?

  But we had a very off the record discussion about coming out. And I was like, I think you should.

• 17:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:57Kara Swisher?

  And you were like, you can't because of Hollywood. We had a fascinating, which I wish I had, I might have the tape to still to this day. But it was really interesting to me about what you reveal about yourself. Because now you're very revelatory in this play and everything else.

• 18:12Speaker 00

  Well, coming out officially, that I did after 9/11-

• 18:15Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 18:15Speaker 00

  Was revelatory in my life and growth. And I never thought, growing up as somebody our age, that you could be an out lesbian performer and still work in Hollywood and a parent. But when I became a parent, everyone in my life knew I was gay. Lois Smith, my publicist, used to walk between me and Kelly on the way into events so that nobody would think that I was with her. Like, everyone was doing their part. In fact, when I was doing Grease, Patrick Pacheco, I believe is now, well, he did an interview with me for Helen Gurley Brown Cosmo. And in it, he asked me if I was dating anyone. And I said, no, I'm taking all resumes. And he said, would they be females or males that you would be looking for?

• 19:00Speaker 00

  I said, I'm open to all takers. And Helen Gurley Brown called Lois Smith, who was my elderly publicist, who is no longer with us.

• 19:09Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 19:10Speaker 00

  And-

• 19:10Kara Swisher?

  Classic. She was a classic.

• 19:11Speaker 00

  Classic. Marilyn Monroe's publicist.

• 19:13Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, she was a classic. I remember.

• 19:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, she was something else. And- Helen Gurley Brown and Lois decided to take that out of the interview. Not that I asked them to. You know, I lived my life as an out person. Everyone at my show knew I was gay.

• 19:28Kara Swisher?

  Right. This was the argument we had. I said that wasn't good enough.

• 19:30Speaker 00

  It wasn't enough. And you know who else had that conversation with me? Uh, Chastity Bono.

• 19:35Kara Swisher?

  Oh, interesting.

• 19:36Speaker 00

  Yeah. Before the transition.

• 19:38Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 00

  She asked if I would do the same thing. And I was like, no way in hell I'm doing that. I mean, Ellen wasn't out.

• 19:45Kara Swisher?

  No, I know.

• 19:45Speaker 00

  Will and Grace wasn't on.

• 19:47Kara Swisher?

  I know.

• 19:47Speaker 00

  You know, it was a time where I was too afraid to be the first. And I was afraid of losing everything, including my children.

• 19:56Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, yes. I remember you saying that. I remember you saying, it was a really hard time to do that.

• 20:01Speaker 00

  So when I did come out and people were shocked.

• 20:03Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 20:04Speaker 00

  I was shocked.

• 20:04Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 20:05Speaker 00

  I'm like, they go, well, you said you liked Tom Cruise. I said, I wanted him to mow my lawn and bring me lemonade.

• 20:10Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 20:11Speaker 00

  You know, and, and there are men that I feel that way about. There's Sidney Harcourt in, in the Jellicle Ball.

• 20:16Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 20:17Speaker 00

  Who plays Rum Tum Tugger.

• 20:18Kara Swisher?

  Rum Tum Tugger. He's a hot.

• 20:20Speaker 00

  Oh, my Lord. And he, when I was up there doing that, he gave me my face a caress. And I was like, oh, my God. You know, but I don't want them naked in my bed.

• 20:30Kara Swisher?

  Right, right.

• 20:30Speaker 00

  I just love men in, in a different kind of way.

• 20:33Kara Swisher?

  I, I hate to quote Roseanne Barr, but she did have the best jokes. I don't know why people think lesbians hate men. They don't have to sleep with them.

• 20:41Kara Swisher?

  You see, I don't like to laugh at Roseanne Barr these days, but it's a great joke.

• 20:44Speaker 00

  I know. She's, it's very sad what's happened to her.

• 20:46Kara Swisher?

  The previous, the person formerly known as Funny Roseanne Barr.

• 20:49Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:50Kara Swisher?

  Um, anyways, interesting conversation. I'm glad you did because I think it means a lot to young people, especially.

• 20:55Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. And, and my life was so much more fulfilling, easy and, uh, you know, chaos free.

• 21:01Kara Swisher?

  And then you had a gay cruise. I mean.

• 21:03Speaker 00

  Well, then we went all the way gay, right? We cut the hair short. We did the whole thing.

• 21:07Kara Swisher?

  You did.

• 21:10Kara Swisher?

  We'll be back in a minute.

• 21:19Speaker 06

  Whenever fall comes back around, it always feels like a fresh start. This year, I've been layering in some styles from the new Lululemon fall drop because the weather is shifting and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it. Lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces. So I can just wake up, throw on a matching set, add a jacket or a fleece and head out, knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough to go wherever the day takes me. Check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com.

• 21:49Kara Swisher?

  I'm Kara Swisher and I like people who say the quiet part out loud. In fact, I love it. That's Tiger Sisters, a new podcast that recently joined the Vox Media Podcast Network. Cherie Brook-Lu and Jean Lu are real sisters who built their careers at LinkedIn and Goldman Sachs. On their weekly podcast, they're giving the next generation practical tips on how to get ahead, how to write emails people actually answer, how to make your LinkedIn profile stand out and how to keep learning as an adult. It's straight talk about money, career and relationships every Monday. Follow Tiger Sisters wherever you get your podcasts.

• 22:27Speaker 07

  What if we told you there was one thing you could eat to reduce your risk of death by about a quarter? Interested? And what if we added that this magical substance can dramatically lower your cholesterol, improve your mood and keep your weight stable? No, it's not protein. It's actually fiber. Billy sexy, most overlooked nutrient of all. But what is fiber? How could one nutrient do all those amazing things? And how can you get enough? Is a powder you stir into some water going to do it for you? All that, plus the strange tale of the gorilla poop obsessed father of cornflakes in the latest episode of Gastropod. Find Gastropod and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

• 23:09Kara Swisher?

  Let's talk about politics because one of the, it's, it's an important part of the show. I thought the most moving part is obviously about your family and you returning to Ireland. And that was very beautiful, but politics are there everywhere, hanging over you. And just this week, Trump attacked you. I don't know if you saw, he did another attack of you on Truth Social.

• 23:24Speaker 00

  No, I didn't see that one. I'm sorry to say.

• 23:26Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, he just, it's not even a good one, actually. He brought you up in a very strange speech he gave at the White House Correspondent.

• 23:32Speaker 00

  Oh, yes. Sorry, I did see that.

• 23:34Kara Swisher?

  Also that, that was the second one.

• 23:35Speaker 00

  Oh, there was another one.

• 23:36Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, there's another one. People know you're an outspoken critic of Trump and people don't realize you've done it since 2006. But what do you want the audience to understand about how your public feud with the president affects your daily life? Because you talked a little bit about in the show.

• 23:50Speaker 00

  Well, you know, when I talked about him on The View, I told the truth. What every New Yorker my age knows about him, that he is not a self-made man, that he got his father's money, that he is a grifter, that he is a logo slapper, that he's not in fact a builder, that, you know, his, his apprentice days were all fiction, sold as fact and people believed them. Like, I saw him for who he was from the time I was a little kid, from the time I knew who he was. I was like, this guy's a joke. He's a used car salesman. He's a snake oil salesman.

• 24:24Kara Swisher?

  Right, right.

• 24:24Speaker 00

  And I said it and he went absolutely batshit crazy.

• 24:27Kara Swisher?

  Yeah. You were sort of the first that you really did focus on.

• 24:31Speaker 00

  Yes, exactly. And, and I think it's because I'm from Comac, which is on Long Island. And he's from Queens, which is part of Long Island. And I think I'm those girls that he didn't like in elementary school, who were tough and maybe grew up to be gay, who would talk back to the idiot rich boys who thought they were funny, who were obnoxious and, and make fun of them. And say, you're not playing with us. You're not playing kickball. And I think that is what got him, that he thinks he has elevated himself from where he used to be to who he is now. And I am one of the peasants. And how dare a peasant from my community speak to me like that.

• 25:10Kara Swisher?

  Right. Although I think it's a little more common. I think he actually thinks he's just still as low. He's still the person looking.

• 25:15Speaker 00

  That's the point. He still feels that low. That's why he had to come after me because it reminds him that I get his number and so does so many millions of people.

• 25:24Kara Swisher?

  Right. And so when, in being a vocal critic of the Trump administration, you get a lot of harassment for it and then you remain as outspoken as ever. Talk about what compels you to keep speaking out? And if you feel, if you could have taken that back? I don't believe you would.

• 25:39Speaker 00

  No, I never would have taken it back.

• 25:41Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 25:41Speaker 00

  I feel it's my responsibility to stand up for this country that has given me so much. That here, I'm a young girl with a, you know.

• 25:49Kara Swisher?

  Star Search.

• 25:50Speaker 00

  Exactly. I'm a young girl that came from nowhere and, and made, you know, this life for myself and these children. Only in this country could this happen. And I feel beholden to that. I feel responsible for that. I feel like it is my responsibility to give back. And this is what I feel is the best way that I can do that is by saying, please take note of this. Please remember this. Please know who we are as a nation.

• 26:18Kara Swisher?

  Do you ever get, the, the online harassment is rather large. I mean, now he has lots of targets, right? Like, as I said, at the, at the White House Correspondent, he went after Caitlin Collins. He goes after, it's off, it's always women. It's often women. Or, or men he perceives as weak in some fashion.

• 26:35Speaker 00

  Or men he's afraid of, like De Niro.

• 26:37Kara Swisher?

  Yes, De Niro.

• 26:38Speaker 00

  I believe he's afraid of De Niro. I believe De Niro is everything he wishes he was.

• 26:42Kara Swisher?

  Yes, yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, he keeps going too.

• 26:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:45Kara Swisher?

  What is the cost to you at this point?

• 26:47Speaker 00

  Well, you know, I don't feel it's a cost to me. I feel that all the love and respect and admiration that I have received since being back in New York and all of the success of the show and then getting to do Kimmel is because of it. I don't think it's cost me. Now, I know I've heard a lot of people, including Anna Navarro, talking about how people come up to her and, and say things to her. No one has ever come up to me, besides once in a CVS when I was with my kid.

• 27:17Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  A MAGA guy wearing a MAGA hat and a MAGA, everything started sort of loudly yelling. And I said, I have a small child here who is autistic and I think you better back up. And then we left and Clay said, why is that man so mad? And I said, he really likes the president. And she says, oh, that bad guy. And I say, exactly right. He likes the bad guy. So he's full of bad stuff.

• 27:42Kara Swisher?

  Right, right, right. So only once.

• 27:44Speaker 00

  That's only once. So no one has like, people don't stop me and go, I love Trump. People stop me and say, thank you.

• 27:50Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 27:51Speaker 00

  So I haven't experienced what Anna Navarro has experienced. Now, online is a different thing.

• 27:55Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 27:56Speaker 00

  But I have words that you can put to block, you know? And so I don't see a lot of them.

• 28:00Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 28:01Speaker 00

  If you go on my feed, you might be overwhelmed by, oh, my God, look at this. But when I watch it, I go, well, it's not that bad.

• 28:07Kara Swisher?

  It, it's been clarifying for some people to see how being rich doesn't make you brave. I think when you're talking about these rich guys. And I've seen it for ages with these, the tech guys. And, and Scott talks a lot about how you have, they have fuck you money. In reality, it's made them more scared. They don't say fuck you, which is really interesting. When Jeff Bezos had that lavish wedding in Italy last year, you wrote about the gross excess of it all, turn your stomach. I agree completely. What do you think has happened with these people? These are the current rich, right? And you're mixed with lots of rich people.

• 28:36Speaker 00

  Yes, I think that people who only measure in money have lost the reason for living. And when I left my show, that was the reason. I had more than enough money to take care of myself and my children and the people in my life for the rest of my life. Should I spend it wisely and not go crazy, right? And that's what I've done. And I'm in a good place and I don't need to work. I love to work. I'm happy when I get to do a wonderful piece of art. But it was never my motivation. Now, to say that I didn't want a better life than the one I had, that's the truth. I didn't want to have to be struggling and my mother cutting coupons and us wearing hand me downs and, you know, shopping at Corvettes.

• 29:18Kara Swisher?

  Right, yeah.

• 29:19Speaker 00

  But the people who only measure in money and don't care about anyone else, I just think they're selfish idiots. And especially Bezos, what he does to his employees at Amazon. And then he has the balls to go have that indecent wedding? And all the people who showed up, I was like, ew, this is horrifying.

• 29:37Kara Swisher?

  Right, right, yeah. You know, absolutely. One of the things that's interesting is they think of themselves as victims. You do know that.

• 29:43Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 29:43Kara Swisher?

  They, they talk as if they're the victims and how dare. I had, I had many of them come up to me after my book was written. They said, you're so mean. I'm like, I'm not mean enough.

• 29:51Speaker 00

  No.

• 29:52Kara Swisher?

  And it turned out, as it turned out, it got worse and worse.

• 29:54Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 29:55Kara Swisher?

  And this was pre-standing in the front of the Trump inauguration. What, why do you think they're doing that? Because having enough has not become a concept in America. There, there's still, it seems to have gotten out of control, like the gilded age.

• 30:07Speaker 00

  But it certainly is a concept in Ireland.

• 30:09Kara Swisher?

  Mm-hmm, yeah.

• 30:10Speaker 00

  It totally is, that you should spend your days happily working at something you like in order to take holidays. And that's what the Irish do. They take long holidays every year.

• 30:22Kara Swisher?

  They do, right.

• 30:23Speaker 00

  Right, it's beautiful. And it's, it's a balance in life. I think we've lost the balance in America. Capitalism.

• 30:29Kara Swisher?

  With Trump as president.

• 30:30Speaker 00

  Correct. Corporate ownership of, of everything, including our, our fourth estate, which is horrifying.

• 30:38Kara Swisher?

  Yes.

• 30:38Speaker 00

  To see what has happened and the fact that President Trump can. Beraite a woman and the press corps just asked the next question? Why they don't ask the same question that Caitlin Collins asked? Why they don't, they don't stand up for each other? Why they don't walk out together? Why they don't? It, it boggles my mind. Well, because there's money to be made by the corporations that own it, that are not seeking the truth. And without the fourth estate, one of the pillars of our democracy, we're doomed.

• 31:08Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, I would agree, although there's a real surge in independent media at the same time.

• 31:12Speaker 00

  There sure is, and that's the only place to go for it.

• 31:14Kara Swisher?

  Right, absolutely. And also Trump's popularity is in the toilet right now, largely due to the war in Iran, his handling the economy, people are tired of his act, I think.

• 31:22Speaker 00

  And the fact that he's falling asleep, that he's very physically ill, that he doesn't look like he's long for this earth, that he shouldn't be the man in control of the nuclear codes. Like, these are things that everyone around him knows, but America just goes for you?

• 31:37Kara Swisher?

  Well, no, his polls are proving in the low 30s. This is the lowest of any president. And do you, do you think his base is finally breaking in a meaningful way?

• 31:45Speaker 00

  Yes, I think people are waking up. Yes, they are. And I think it's taken a very long time, and so many people have suffered and people have died because of him. Many people. And they're over the charade. He thinks this is a reality show. And I do blame Mark Burnett for teaching him that you tell a lie long enough on TV, it becomes the truth.

• 32:06Kara Swisher?

  I think it was a natural for him.

• 32:07Speaker 00

  Well, Roy Cohen taught him that, too.

• 32:09Kara Swisher?

  Roy Cohen taught him that. And I think he was born that way. But you talked a lot, the need to welcome people back who've realized they've been conned by Trump. I have said that, too. I get a lot of pushback, like, no.

• 32:19Speaker 00

  I do, too. I get people who write on the thing, I will never forgive them. I'm like, well, then we will never be the country that we once were.

• 32:26Kara Swisher?

  Right. But, and, and I think the pain is deep for a lot of people. So how do you do that personally, you two? Because, you know, you get attacked online quite a lot, and I get attacked quite a lot. And I have to say, you have to let them back in, or, or some of them, not all of them.

• 32:39Speaker 00

  Not all of them, but I'll tell you a recent one. You know, Michael Cohen, who was the creator of many of the Rosies, the fat, disgusting, pervert stuff.

• 32:48Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 32:49Speaker 00

  When he turned on Trump and, and Trump was doing all kinds of things to him, I wrote him a letter and said that, you know, I forgive you for what I know you did, and I want you to know that I'm proud of the stance that you're taking. And he wrote me and asked me to come visit him in prison, and I did. And I had a six-hour visit with him, and we maintained, you know, a friendship over the phone or online. And now he's back with Trump, and I blocked him, and I will never speak to him again. I can't believe that this man had a come to Jesus and understood his role in this horrific catastrophe that is Trump.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  And then he reconciled with him. And I was stunned. And it made me feel at that moment, oh, my God, these people are not to be trusted.

• 33:41Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 33:42Speaker 00

  And I don't want to live that way. I, when I see people on the internet, on Instagram, saying, I voted for him three times, and I'm really sorry, and I didn't realize. And, and I always write, thank you and welcome back. That's what I write to them.

• 33:56Kara Swisher?

  You're gonna keep doing that?

• 33:57Speaker 00

  I'm gonna keep doing that.

• 33:58Kara Swisher?

  What if Michael Cohen came to you and said, oh, I was wrong again?

• 34:00Speaker 00

  No way.

• 34:01Kara Swisher?

  Like an alcoholic.

• 34:02Speaker 00

  You know, fool me once.

• 34:03Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 34:03Speaker 00

  Right?

• 34:04Kara Swisher?

  You don't get to come back in.

• 34:05Speaker 00

  No, and Michael Cohen caused tremendous damage to me personally. So doing that was for me as well as for him. And then I think he basically spit in my face by doing that.

• 34:15Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, no good deed, right?

• 34:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 34:17Kara Swisher?

  New York Times interview with Jennifer Lawrence late last year, they asked about speaking out versus now versus the first term. And she gave a very candid answer. She said, as we've learned, celebrities do not make a difference whatsoever on who people vote for, so then what am I doing? I'm just sharing my opinion on something that's gonna add fuel to the fire that's ripping this country apart. When you think about speaking up, how important is it to keep speaking up?

• 34:39Speaker 00

  Very.

• 34:39Kara Swisher?

  Very. Yeah, because a lot of people are grappling with that.

• 34:42Speaker 00

  No.

• 34:42Kara Swisher?

  I think fairly grappling with it.

• 34:44Speaker 00

  Right. And I, I feel as though anyone with a public platform needs to speak out if they believe in the United States of America. And right now, we're on the precipice of disaster, and he's trying to overthrow the election, and he's going to cause some kind of catastrophe and then say they're off. And, you know, it's very clear, and we all have to be ready for this, because if that happens, we're doomed. We're doomed.

• 35:11Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, unless we stop it. Correct.

• 35:13Speaker 00

  Right. Unless we stop it, stop him, or he's no longer running.

• 35:17Kara Swisher?

  So you're still nervous about that possibility? Because they say they're gonna do it. I always say, when they say it, believe them, essentially.

• 35:25Speaker 00

  They say they're gonna do what?

• 35:26Kara Swisher?

  Stop the election. They talk about it.

• 35:28Speaker 00

  Of course. And it's, their actions and what they're doing, and it's, you know, to me, it's quite obvious. That, that's another thing. Like, things to me that seem so obvious that I don't understand why they're not obvious to other people.

• 35:40Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 35:41Speaker 00

  It's taken me a long time to go, the way that you view the world is not the way everyone else views the world.

• 35:45Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 35:46Speaker 00

  It's taken me 64 years to do that.

• 35:48Speaker 06

  We'll be back in a minute. Whenever fall comes back around, it always feels like a fresh start. This year, I've been layering in some styles from the new Lululemon fall drop, because the weather is shifting and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it. Lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces, so I can just wake up, throw on a matching set, add a jacket or a fleece, and head out, knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough to go wherever the day takes me. Check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com.

• 36:26Kara Swisher?

  So every episode, we get a question from an outside expert. Here's yours.

• 36:31Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 36:32Speaker 03

  Hi, you two. It's Megan Rapinoe here, retired athlete and fellow podcast host. Rosie, I am curious what you think, especially leading into the midterms, what the Democrats can learn from a lesbian, first of all, but most importantly, how to handle Trump with repeated attacks and sort of a playbook, and also how you plan to deal with him in your guest host role on Jimmy Kimmel Live. So let me know.

• 36:58Speaker 00

  I love Megan Rapinoe. She's fantastic.

• 37:01Kara Swisher?

  I got her just for you.

• 37:02Speaker 00

  Thank you so much. That's really beautiful.

• 37:03Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 37:04Speaker 00

  I think that I plan on doing what Jimmy Kimmel has done so beautifully, which is giving it to him in a comedic, honest, truthful way. And I will do that as, as big as I can. Now, the song that I sang in my show, If He Only Had A Brain. I wanted to do that on Kimmel, but they just told me I can't.

• 37:24Kara Swisher?

  Oh.

• 37:25Speaker 00

  That they couldn't get permission for the parody because it's political content. And I was like, well, that is absurd to me, because we used to do parodies every day on my show.

• 37:35Kara Swisher?

  Wait, I don't understand.

• 37:36Speaker 00

  Well, I've been told I'm not allowed to do that. Now, I don't know, it's not Jimmy.

• 37:40Kara Swisher?

  Do you like to sing a bit of it here?

• 37:41Speaker 00

  Yes. His approval rate is 30, his diaper's always dirty, I think the guy's insane. He ain't no stable genius, got a teeny tiny penis, and he doesn't have a brain. But it's a long song, and I got tremendous response at the show.

• 38:01Kara Swisher?

  You did, you did.

• 38:02Speaker 00

  But I, I plan on doing whatever we can and working with the writers and his team and honoring just how brave and bold he has been.

• 38:10Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, he has been.

• 38:11Speaker 00

  And I admire him greatly. I've never been on his show, so this will be the first time as the guest host, and I'm thrilled that he-

• 38:18Kara Swisher?

  You have a full week.

• 38:19Speaker 00

  I have a full week, yes. And he, I'm thrilled that he asked me, and I hope I can follow just his lead.

• 38:25Kara Swisher?

  Can you give us a preview of your guest, for example?

• 38:27Speaker 00

  No, no. I, I wanted to have Ms. Rachel, but she, I think, is, you know, Mr. Rogers now for our contemporary time. And she's brilliant and brave and bold, and I admire her greatly. And we are going to give away her doll, but she couldn't make it, or they couldn't book it. I don't know exactly why, but they've asked me not to tell who the guests are.

• 38:48Kara Swisher?

  Right, that's okay, that's okay.

• 38:49Speaker 00

  You know, but they're not political like, like that. It's not like I'm getting, you know, Jane Fonda and De Niro and all of the people, like Mark Ruffalo, and we can all just talk about the loathing of this man, you know? And what he's done to the country, you know?

• 39:04Kara Swisher?

  I would like that.

• 39:04Speaker 00

  That would be a good show, maybe like The View. We can have the-

• 39:07Kara Swisher?

  The View, you could do that. Yeah. Are you, are you gonna go back on The View while you're here?

• 39:10Speaker 00

  They're off now for the summer.

• 39:12Kara Swisher?

  Oh, right, they are, right.

• 39:13Speaker 00

  But, you know, if, when their 30th season happens next year, I-

• 39:16Kara Swisher?

  They're bringing everyone in.

• 39:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would do that. And, you know, I saw Whoopi, you know, we had like a kind of difficult time when we were both on the show together and, and, but, you know, we're both grown-ass women, and I have tremendous respect and admire all that she's done. This EGOT, again, an unlikely woman only in America.

• 39:37Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, what a great story she has.

• 39:39Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. You know, really beautiful. And I think she's doing a great job on that show. And, you know, for me, talking politics is not the best use of my talent, but I feel the need to do it because-

• 39:51Kara Swisher?

  Well, comedy, you can do political comedy.

• 39:52Speaker 00

  You can do it through comedy, but just-

• 39:54Kara Swisher?

  Do you want to have another show?

• 39:56Speaker 00

  I would go back to daytime if they asked me, because I really feel that those are my people, the mothers at home with their kids. And, you know, I would do that. And because Kelly Clarkson left, and there seems to be a vacancy in some capacity.

• 40:09Kara Swisher?

  Can I ask you, you just used an interesting term, if they asked me.

• 40:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:12Kara Swisher?

  You don't have to be asked, you don't have to be waited to be asked anymore in the new digital universe.

• 40:17Speaker 00

  Well, that's so true. But, you know, to do one the way and the style that I would like to do it, I would like to do it on, on a streaming service or, you know, a network that we could have a live audience and still give away free things to the, you know? I would like to do it similar to what I've done, and I believe America really is craving nostalgia right now. They're craving an easier time. And back then, when I was on the show, you know, the internet wasn't really around.

• 40:45Kara Swisher?

  You've not thought of a podcast or a YouTube show?

• 40:47Speaker 00

  I tried a podcast, Tara, and it was very difficult for me, because I didn't have somebody to talk to all the time besides someone I was interviewing.

• 40:56Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 40:56Speaker 00

  So in the morning, when they'd want me to tell a funny story, it would just be me, and I thought, this is not fun for me.

• 41:02Kara Swisher?

  Oh, you like an audience, you like-

• 41:03Speaker 00

  I like an audience, and I like people, the staff around me, I like to get to know their stories, I, you know, I, I like being in that environment.

• 41:11Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, yeah. So what is the advice? You didn't, what would the advice for Democrats from pro lesbian?

• 41:16Speaker 00

  The advice for Democrats is stand up to him at every turn, not meekly, strongly. Come at him with the force he comes at you, and stay intellectually superior, because that's not too difficult with him. Right? And just, you know, do so, some words with multiple syllables, and he'll be lost, you know?

• 41:34Kara Swisher?

  When do you stop, though? Because Rahm Emanuel said to me, well, you come at him really hard until the midterms, and then he does, he's an old man who needs to go home. Like, that's, he said, forget him after you win, after, after the midterms, if it's a huge success.

• 41:47Speaker 00

  We can forget him, because he, he's constantly doing evil, horrific-

• 41:53Speaker 00

  Inhumane things to everyone and riching himself in broad daylight. And I don't understand why Jimmy Carter had to sell his peanut farm. But these idiots are making billions of dollars and announcing it and no one is doing anything.

• 42:09Kara Swisher?

  Right, right. Well, what's interesting is we realize there's nothing to be done.

• 42:13Speaker 00

  Well, that's the scariest part. And when he's out, there needs to be a whole new series of laws about never having this happen again.

• 42:21Kara Swisher?

  Right, absolutely. Let me ask you, are you worried that Trump, speaking of doing things, he'll obviously be watching you? Because he's riveted to you in some fashion. Will you think he will, you worried about any FCC? They went after ABC, they went after The View. They're continuing to go after The View, but are you worried about the FCC?

• 42:40Speaker 00

  Doing what?

• 42:41Kara Swisher?

  Coming after you on the show, for example, doing anything?

• 42:44Speaker 00

  What are they gonna say, that you can't say that? I mean, I wanna do, I wanna do a song.

• 42:48Kara Swisher?

  Brendan Carr, who is a moron, is saying those things.

• 42:50Speaker 00

  Well, I don't listen to them. I don't pay any heed to them. I'm going to go, like, I wanna sing a song the first night. Hello, Donny, know you're watching. Donny, it's me, Rosie, showing up on ABC. I wanna do like a little love song, like you, you got a crush. Donny, it's too much. I hear you're leaving Melania for me. That's what I wanna do.

• 43:17Kara Swisher?

  I think you should sexualize the whole thing.

• 43:19Speaker 00

  That's what I'm saying. Make that he's totally wanting of me, you know? You wanna grab me, Donny, I wanna stab thee, Donny. I don't know, I have to make it up as I go, but.

• 43:30Kara Swisher?

  I like it, well done.

• 43:31Speaker 00

  There you go.

• 43:31Kara Swisher?

  Anyway, I wanna end on a positive, talking about aging, actually, and, and freedom that comes with it. Now that you're back in the spotlight, people are gonna notice. You look different, you've been very open about GLP-1s, which I think are the, I just did a show for CNN called Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever. We had a whole show on GLP-1s, because I was like, this is the groundbreaking technology.

• 43:50Speaker 00

  I agree a thousand percent.

• 43:53Kara Swisher?

  Everyone's focused on AI, I'm like, GLP-1s will change everything for all kinds of people. And, and you, to lose weight after you're diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, right? And that you got a facelift. Talk, talk about the stigma and why it was important for you to talk about. I really appreciated that you talked about both.

• 44:11Speaker 00

  Well, I had to, you know.

• 44:12Kara Swisher?

  Well, yeah, like, what happened?

• 44:13Speaker 00

  No, I, no, I just.

• 44:15Kara Swisher?

  Just fasting.

• 44:15Speaker 00

  No, that's what people say.

• 44:16Kara Swisher?

  There's someone who is, I don't like, who has gotten really skinny and they're like, just fasting. I'm like, you need to stop.

• 44:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's just the shots and don't lie to us. And the people who do lie, there are some famous people who said, oh, I'm not on them. And then years later said, oh, by the way, I am. And I always judge them too, to tell you the truth, but.

• 44:35Kara Swisher?

  Talk about that.

• 44:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, cuz I feel like it's such a lie to, to perpetrate on people, you know? So I had lost a lot, about 60 pounds. I, I only go on GLP-1s on the lowest dose for a year. This was what my doctor recommended. Right, so I only go up very slowly. So I lose like about 15 to 25 pounds a year. So in the three years, I've lost 60 pounds. And there was a lot of extra skin on my face. And I had lines here that they call marionette lines. And in Ireland, people would come up and go, what's the matter, Rosie, you're so sad? I'm like, no, it's just my face, you know? And so I started asking friends who had, I have many friends who have had facelifts.

• 45:18Speaker 00

  But some of them, you know, I, I didn't wanna go that far. I just wanted really just this part. And so my friend Jenny Hutt told me about this doctor and she had hers and she looked fantastic. And I went and met with him and he was the first doctor that agreed to only do what I wanted. And before I went under, I said to him, Mark, listen to me. I am never going to say I wish you did more. And he said, you're the first person that said that to me.

• 45:43Kara Swisher?

  Right, cuz you can get convinced of it. Many people do that, right? If you could fix this, why not fix this?

• 45:47Speaker 00

  Why not fix that?

• 45:47Kara Swisher?

  You, you had talked about, your daughter talking about the feminist part of it.

• 45:51Speaker 00

  My daughter was very upset. In fact, to this day, she doesn't really know that I did it. Because I went in January, I did it, 10 days later, I went home, the bruising was gone and they didn't notice. Because, you know, it was subtle, it was.

• 46:04Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, it can be that way. My mom had one and pretended she didn't. And she had bruises in everyone and she goes, what are you talking about? And I was like, oh my god.

• 46:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, how do you deny what's right in front of your eyes?

• 46:14Kara Swisher?

  And I was like, why deny it? If you have it, you have it, like, what's the difference?

• 46:17Speaker 00

  Admit it, and I wanted to tell people, and I also told them the truth, it's very expensive. And I tell them, my doctor, Mark Zimbler, if people wanna know, he's in New York. That's the guy who was able to do exactly what I said. And if you want a big, full facelift, go to the Kardashian guy, you know? Pay $400,000 if that's what you wanna do.

• 46:35Kara Swisher?

  But you did know the feminist aspects of it.

• 46:38Speaker 00

  Well, my daughter, my child, Clay, said to me, I can't believe that you went over to London to talk to doctors about surgery, face surgery, plastic surgery. This is a rejection of everything that you, you say that you represent. I can't believe there are young girls who look up to you. What are they gonna think when you do this? This is not the best performance for a lesbian or for a feminist.

• 47:00Kara Swisher?

  It sounds like my second son.

• 47:02Speaker 00

  And then the biggest, the biggest one was, I don't know if I'll ever be able to look at you the same way if you do it. And that one really stopped me for a few months. That was like last summer and I was like, Jesus, I better not do this. But then come January, when, you know, I was looking in the mirror going, Lord almighty, I look so old and so like not fresh, you know? I said, I have to do it. So, you know, being a feminist means you get to make your own decisions on what makes you happy and what you wanna do. And that's really what I believe feminism is about.

• 47:35Kara Swisher?

  Sort of like me and tattoos. I'm like, I'm doing it for me, it's not for others.

• 47:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, I love my tattoos too. And people say, why do you do that? I like it, I like the way it looks, I like this individuality that you get to adorn your body with, you know? Ink of some artists that you love.

• 47:51Kara Swisher?

  So it makes you feel better.

• 47:53Speaker 00

  It made me feel better and it made me feel not so sad.

• 47:58Kara Swisher?

  The thing with GLP-1s is that this is revolutionary, it's revolutionary.

• 48:02Speaker 00

  No, I think it's gonna help addiction in many, many areas. Because, you know, the food addiction is real. And the noise that your brain hears when you are an obese person and you like.

• 48:12Kara Swisher?

  Same thing with drinking.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  Well, right. Every October after Halloween until Christmas, my kids would hide their candy from me. And at night, I would go search for it. Because I would know there was a Butterfinger somewhere in the house and I couldn't sleep.

• 48:27Kara Swisher?

  There can't be a Butterfinger.

• 48:28Speaker 00

  Right, and so, you know, it was very, very difficult for me to not overeat sugar. And this drug has changed my life. And whenever I see someone struggling with obesity, I wish I could convince the company that makes Manjaro to let me do commercials, even though they don't need it, cuz everyone wants it, if they would drop the price for people.

• 48:50Kara Swisher?

  Right, which they will.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  They have to.

• 48:52Kara Swisher?

  Prices will be lower and lower.

• 48:54Speaker 00

  I hope so.

• 48:54Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, it's something that they should do, which is, this is to me, something like the Trump administration should do. Like, it would be, healthcare costs would go down so considerably around it. I was, it's sort of a diabetic industrial complex, along with a food industrial complex.

• 49:09Speaker 00

  Yes, indeed.

• 49:10Kara Swisher?

  The only thing I agree with RFK Jr. is the stuff in the food is really addictive.

• 49:15Speaker 00

  Well, and you taste it when you go to Ireland. The food tastes different, the steaks taste different.

• 49:19Kara Swisher?

  Everything does.

• 49:20Speaker 00

  Everything tastes different.

• 49:21Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, see, that's so much from your time away.

• 49:23Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 49:24Kara Swisher?

  So I'm gonna finish up talking about that. So you moved to Ireland, you wanna move back to the United States, correct?

• 49:29Speaker 00

  When he's done. Because I miss my other children greatly. And I, I miss, you know, New York and my life here. And I think it's very important as I get older for Clay to be around her siblings. So that, you know, when I go, they'll, they'll have a strong connection, stronger than it is now.

• 49:47Kara Swisher?

  Very good point, yeah.

• 49:48Speaker 00

  And, and so those are the reasons that I would move back. I would keep my house in Dublin, which I love, in Sandy Mount, a little village in the midst of a city. It's gorgeous.

• 49:58Kara Swisher?

  Gorgeous, you live in a very nice area.

• 49:59Speaker 00

  I really do, and it's, and it's a beautiful house. It's, it's by far the cheapest house I've ever lived in as an adult. And it's my favorite house. And I feel very at home there.

• 50:09Kara Swisher?

  One of the things, when you did an interview with your old co-host of you, Nicole Wallace, who's wonderful, you said you don't really travel. You've performed this now in Australia and in Scotland. And you told Nicole you're stretching in your old age. Is this show going anywhere or are you taking it?

• 50:25Speaker 00

  Well, this was sort of a proof of concept, right? I wanted to see how it would work in America. Because in Ireland, there were far more Irish parts of it. So we took some things out and added more family things and for New York. And I wanted to see if it would get the same response that it did over in, in Sydney and, and in Ireland. So we only did 12 shows just to see if Daryl Roth, who has the right to, to do it on Broadway, if she would want to, next summer, I would be able to do that. So it's up to her and it's up to, you know, what happens on Broadway and whether or not ticket prices.

• 51:02Kara Swisher?

  It's just you.

• 51:02Speaker 00

  It's a cheap show, but the ticket prices were still high. I thought they were too high. I asked that they be lowered and they were like, well, this is the way that we have to do it for what, you know? I was like, my god. So if I could do like a little tucked away booth theater, you know? And have the ticket prices not be extraordinary, that would be.

• 51:20Kara Swisher?

  Would you take it elsewhere in this country?

• 51:22Speaker 00

  I would like to, you know, I would like to at some point, but with my child, it's hard to go away, you know, it's this, this summer has been a lot for them. And they have a little bit of autistic burnout, you know.

• 51:35Kara Swisher?

  Want to get back home.

• 51:35Speaker 00

  They want to get back home. It's too much traveling, not enough routine.

• 51:39Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, I get it. I have adult kids and kids at home. I have a four-year-old and a six-year-old, too.

• 51:44Speaker 00

  Oh, good for you. Are you so excited about that?

• 51:46Kara Swisher?

  They're so great.

• 51:47Speaker 00

  Oh, there's nothing better than that age.

• 51:49Kara Swisher?

  And all the kids have a really, we're about to go to San Francisco next week to be with their older brother, who so calls me every day about them.

• 51:55Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 51:56Kara Swisher?

  It's a really wonderful relationship. I'm very happy about the whole situation.

• 52:00Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 52:01Kara Swisher?

  Is parenting different in your 60s? I know how it is for me.

• 52:04Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, yes. Thousand percent.

• 52:06Kara Swisher?

  Meaning better?

• 52:07Speaker 00

  First of all, an autistic child forces me to have a patience level that I didn't have when my other kids were little. I think that because my mother died so young, I had a 10-year-old's idea of what a perfect mother would be. And in some ways, I made mistakes. I think I tried to flatten the bumps in the road for them a little bit too much, which, you know, made it difficult then when a bump occurs in adult life. And I also didn't realize that adult children need their mothers and fathers so much. Like when my kids now in their 20s and 30s will call me and tell me what's going on. And, you know, and also the sense of sadness and desperation that they feel about the current state of the world and their lack of ability to ever own a home.

• 52:51Speaker 00

  And, you know, it's a very different.

• 52:54Kara Swisher?

  It is.

• 52:55Speaker 00

  Experience.

• 52:55Kara Swisher?

  Parenting never ends.

• 52:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, it never ends. And I didn't realize that.

• 52:59Kara Swisher?

  Yeah. Yeah, I think that's the best part of it.

• 53:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:01Kara Swisher?

  Actually.

• 53:02Speaker 00

  I do, too.

• 53:02Kara Swisher?

  I think I'm a better parent to even the older kids now.

• 53:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think the same thing for me. I think I try to connect more. I, you know, connection is very big with Clay. And because I do that on a daily basis, make a point to connect and to get inside there, I do it now with my bigger kids, too. And it's been very rewarding.

• 53:24Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, I think Les means to raise all the kids, honestly.

• 53:27Speaker 00

  I do, too, frankly.

• 53:28Kara Swisher?

  We have strong, confident men who like women.

• 53:31Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:32Kara Swisher?

  And girls who are confident and also like men and women.

• 53:35Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 53:36Kara Swisher?

  Yeah. So it seems like you have a new kind of energy and confidence now.

• 53:40Speaker 00

  A lot of people have said that to me.

• 53:42Kara Swisher?

  Yes.

• 53:43Speaker 00

  I don't know that I, I sense it.

• 53:45Kara Swisher?

  You can feel it in your show.

• 53:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. Other people have said that they sense that.

• 53:48Kara Swisher?

  And I don't know you well, but it feels like that. You seem mentally healthier.

• 53:51Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:52Kara Swisher?

  You know?

• 53:52Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:53Kara Swisher?

  In your long career, you've done stand-up comedy, hosting talk shows, acting in movies. Obviously, you've been an advocate in this one show. What do you hope the next act looks like?

• 54:01Speaker 00

  You know, I hope I get to do something that still provides me with enough time to be around my family in a really meaningful way. But, you know, I would like to come back. If I could do something in the daytime area, I would do that. So I don't know, we'll, we'll see what happens. But I want to be able to be central and available to my children as a priority, more so than I do out of my career.

• 54:27Kara Swisher?

  So you'd never run for office?

• 54:29Speaker 00

  Never.

• 54:29Kara Swisher?

  Never?

• 54:30Speaker 00

  I would be, no, because, you know, my mental health is something I have to stay on top of. And I think that, you know, I wouldn't have the patience to deal with all the bullshit that is required when you are a politician.

• 54:43Kara Swisher?

  Would you go out on the road for any politician?

• 54:45Speaker 00

  Oh, and I have before.

• 54:46Kara Swisher?

  Is there anyone you're loving right now?

• 54:48Speaker 00

  Well, I'm a fan of Gavin Newsom. I like the way he talked back to Trump. I like the way he stands up for what he believes in and gay marriage, which he did all those years ago and was there when I married Kelly. I think he's, he's, he reminds me of a Kennedy.

• 55:03Kara Swisher?

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:04Speaker 00

  And in the best.

• 55:05Kara Swisher?

  But he's a handsome man.

• 55:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's a handsome man. And the only thing.

• 55:08Kara Swisher?

  Not that you want to sleep with him, just like.

• 55:09Speaker 00

  No, I do not. But I like to look at him sometimes. And I don't think of anything below the waist. Trust me on this one, people. But I, I'm a big fan of him and a supporter and always was of Hillary Clinton and went out on the road with her and did a lot of events and interviews. And I do whatever I can.

• 55:27Kara Swisher?

  So you want to be part of what's next coming? What do you hope for the country right now?

• 55:31Speaker 00

  That we can restore ourselves to what we, the founding fathers originally intended and that we can stop the corruption and the misogyny and the racism that permeates this land.

• 55:47Kara Swisher?

  Yeah. Well, hello, Donald. Yes, hello, Don.

• 55:49Speaker 00

  Hello, Donny. Well, hello, Donny. It's me, Rosie, and I'm looking at you right here on TV.

• 55:58Kara Swisher?

  Okay. Thank you so much.

• 56:01Speaker 00

  It's great. And thank you for coming to my show. I really appreciate it.

• 56:03Kara Swisher?

  Of course, it was wonderful. It was fantastic.

• 56:04Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 56:05Kara Swisher?

  I appreciate it.

• 56:10Kara Swisher?

  Today's show was produced by Michelle Aloue, Catherine Millsop, Madeleine LaPlante-Duby, Megan Burney, and Caitlin Lynch. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Special thanks to Eamonn Whale and Dave Shaw and Julia Sharp Levine. Our engineers are Fernando Aruda and Rick Kwan, and our theme music is by Track academics. If you're already following the show, you're sipping a pint with the locals. If not, the crossing guard in Ireland is going to have a word. Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for On with Kara Swisher, and hit follow. Thanks for listening to On with Kara Swisher from Podium Media, New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us. We'll be back on Thursday with more.