Pod Insights Stuff You Missed in History Class Behind the Scenes Minis: Impossible Shoes About this episode Tracy talks about getting listener requests, and wonders about the details of one the stories from Monday's show. Tracy and Holly talk about the size of Lynn, Massachusetts, and Holly waxes rhapsodic about shoes.
See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
0:04 Tracy V. Wilson? Deanna Flores is a flag football star, a trailblazer, an entrepreneur, and now host of a new podcast.
0:10 Holly Frey? In Born to Become with Deanna Flores, she's sitting down with people from every corner of culture to find the whole person behind the public identity.
0:18 Tracy V. Wilson? Every episode, you'll get to know Deanna, her guests, and even yourself a little better. No lectures, no know-it-all hosts, just real people being real.
0:26 Holly Frey? Listen to Born to Become with Deanna Flores out now on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Created in partnership with Geico.
0:35 Tracy V. Wilson? You ever show up late to the game and your friends already saved your seat, your drink, even a plate? That's looking out. That's having your back. And that's exactly what AT&T does with the AT&T Guarantee. They know staying connected matters, so they actually guarantee a network that comes through when it counts. AT&T has connectivity you can depend on, or they'll proactively make it right, just like that friend who takes care of things before you even ask. AT&T, connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details.
1:09 Holly Frey? A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:40 Tracy V. Wilson? The Old Gays are back with Silver Linings, their lovable podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Robert, Mick, Bill, and Jessa strut back down memory lane for season two, sharing lessons on life, love, and loss. These are the kind of insights that only come from experience. So tune in to Silver Linings with The Old Gays on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Workplace chaos. We've all been there. Deadline Are slipping, projects are piling up, and suddenly you realize the missing piece is the right person. That's when you say, this is a job for sponsored jobs. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, your job post gets a boost so you can connect with quality candidates
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2:45 Holly Frey? Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.
2:56 Tracy V. Wilson? Happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson.
2:57 Holly Frey? And I'm Holly Frey.
2:59 Tracy V. Wilson? Had our latest Six Impossible Episodes.
3:01 Holly Frey? Yeah.
3:02 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh, I remembered doing one Six Impossible Episodes of listener requests previously. And I started my document for writing this outline in, and then I tried to save it as Six Impossible Episodes Listener Requests 2. And my computer said, there's already a file by that name. And I said, excuse me.
3:22 Holly Frey? Ma'am, ma'am.
3:24 Tracy V. Wilson? When did that happen? Um, so I had to go refresh my memory. I like doing Six Impossible Episodes for a number of reasons. I especially like when it gives me the chance to just get a whole pile of listener requests. We've said before, we have way more listener requests than we can possibly ever do. That does not mean stop sending them. We also love getting them. And we get listener requests that are things that I just never would have thought of. Sometimes I'll get a listener request that makes, that is somebody that I know about, and for whatever reason, have just never thought of doing an episode about. And I'm like, that's amazing. That's a great idea. And then some of the favorite episodes
4:07 Tracy V. Wilson? we have ever done before have been listener requests of people, or organizations, or events, or whatever, that for whatever reason, I just did not know about before getting the note. So we welcome the listener requests and acknowledge that the list is longer than humanity has room for in our lives.
4:28 Holly Frey? Yeah, I even had while we were in Iceland, a couple of people come up to me and be like, I'm so sorry. I know you get so many, but I have some. And I'm like, go ahead. Like, please bring us more ideas. We may or may not be able to act on them, but they're great. Um, I have feelings.
4:44 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
4:46 Holly Frey? About Gugan's husband, and they are uncharitable.
4:50 Tracy V. Wilson? Okay.
4:51 Holly Frey? I'm like, you petty jealous weasel. That's pretty much what they are.
4:55 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. And I, so the information that I was able to find about her biography was really thin. Like, there are all of these books of patterns, plenty of them. You can, you know, see the kinds of things that she was knitting or crocheting or doing with other needles or whatever. You can look at all of that. There's just not a lot of detail about her life. Uh, and the source that I read that talked about this made it sound like sort of a deal that they struck that was like, I get to keep all of my books and copyright, and you get to cut me out of the will. And I was like, that seems a little odd to me. I don't know if that's accurate. I think these two elements
5:39 Tracy V. Wilson? of it are correct, but I don't really know for sure that they were linked together in that way.
5:45 Holly Frey? Right. That it was a cause and effect.
5:47 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. So, yeah, that's not sure on that.
5:51 Holly Frey? Yeah.
5:52 Tracy V. Wilson? Nellie Cashman was clearly an astounding person.
5:56 Holly Frey? I know. She sounds very fun.
5:58 Tracy V. Wilson? She sounds very fun and cool in a lot of ways. Um, and I, uh, super admire the fact that she, you know, when there was a new discovery of gold or silver, she would show up and she would start a restaurant in a boarding house and like, was able to make her way in a, uh, you know, a time when a lot of women didn't have opportunities like that. Um, uh, and so she was an outlier in a lot of ways. I do wonder how much of some of the most dramatic events in her life are maybe a little embellished.
6:34 Holly Frey? Yeah. Oh, yeah.
6:35 Tracy V. Wilson? Like, I have questions about how if these men at the mine were already starving and developing scurvy, and it also took her weeks to get to them, and they all survived, that seems like a lot of. How all of those things.
6:51 Holly Frey? There's a lot of malady math to be worked out.
6:53 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, like, how could all of that have simultaneously been been true? And it's one of those things where all of the things she definitely for sure did are all notable enough on their own. That if those things are embellishments, like, we didn't need the embellishments for her to be incredibly cool.
7:10 Holly Frey? Right.
7:11 Tracy V. Wilson? So, yeah. And I also like her getting people to tear down the grandstand that people were gonna watch the hanging from. Because while we've talked many times about public executions, and times and places in which going to see a public execution was regarded as a, like, an acceptable thing to do, and people had kind of a raucous party over it. The fact that she was like, nah, that's appalling, and I'm ripping down your grandstand, and you were not selling tickets to this.
7:41 Holly Frey? Yeah.
7:42 Tracy V. Wilson? I like, I like the gumption.
7:44 Holly Frey? I do, too. I always find those stories, I mean, we've talked about them a million times. The one that sticks out to me is that Christopher Lee saw the last public guillotining in France, which is
7:55 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
7:56 Holly Frey? so recent in history. And I'm just like, how weird and ghoulish is that?
8:01 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
8:02 Holly Frey? I don't know if I'm just hypersensitive to such things.
8:05 Tracy V. Wilson? Right.
8:06 Holly Frey? But I don't feel like I am. I feel like I'm a human with empathy and sympathy.
8:10 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
8:11 Holly Frey? So it just feels yucky.
8:13 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. Yeah. I do definitely recommend, uh, looking at that huge archive of, uh, of Teenie Harris's photographs.
8:23 Holly Frey? Yes.
8:24 Tracy V. Wilson? Um, we could spend hours and hours looking at them. You'd also spend hours and hours looking at Jane Goggins', uh, knitting and crocheting books. And like, neither of those things just translates into an audio podcast.
8:40 Holly Frey? Right. Yeah, also, um.
8:46 Holly Frey? I feel like we should say, if you go looking at T D Harris's pictures. I know we said he was like, super dapper. Friends, you need to brace yourself for how very handsome and charming this man was. Like, I had read about him in passing in like, some photography book. And then I had looked at this and was like, oh, I should go do the thing. And I just was like, dear lord.
9:12 Holly Frey? Movie star handsome.
9:14 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
9:14 Holly Frey? So cute. Brace, I'm just telling you now, brace.
9:18 Tracy V. Wilson? Right, right. Yeah, so, uh, we tend to do, I tend to do six impossible episodes every six months, a couple of times a year or so, so they'll roll around again. Don't know what the theme will be, to sense, to just be whatever strikes my fancy at a particular time.
9:39 Speaker 03 First thought is like, wow, how are we gonna do all this?
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10:38 Holly Frey? AT&T.
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11:47 Holly Frey? Deanna Flores, flag football star, trailblazer, broadcaster, and entrepreneur, knows what pressure feels like. She knows what it takes to step up in the moment, and she knows that even the biggest achievement is never the end of the story.
11:59 Tracy V. Wilson? In the new podcast, Born to Become with Deanna Flores, she's sitting down with people from every corner of culture, including sports, business, wellness, and entertainment, to find the whole person behind the public identity.
12:11 Holly Frey? Whether she's talking to an athlete on the field, a founder heading into a pitch, or a musician before a show, the conversation starts with the official bio ends.
12:21 Tracy V. Wilson? Every episode, Deanna shares her own experiences, questions, and even doubts. Her guests learn from her, she learns from them, and you might pick up something along the way. No lectures, no know-it-all host, just real people being real.
12:33 Holly Frey? Come curious and leave with something you can use.
12:36 Tracy V. Wilson? Listen to Born to Become with Deanna Flores out now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Created in partnership with Geico.
12:50 Speaker 05 Live Right, publishers of John U. Bacon's New York Times bestseller, The Gales of November, a chronicle of the S. S. Edmund Fitzgerald's 1975 shipwreck. "Never has it been told better than by Mr. Bacon in this colorful book," writes John J. Miller of The Wall Street Journal, while author Hampton Seitz proclaims that it's destined to be a classic. The Gales of November, now in paperback.
13:18 Holly Frey? We've all done it, tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends.
14:00 Holly Frey? Not to cancel them, not to hype them more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
14:23 Holly Frey? We talked about Jan Matziliger this week. Bless you, Jan Matziliger, because I love shoes. I have a little shoe problem. And most of the machinery running today is still built on the concepts that he developed.
14:39 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
14:40 Holly Frey? I really feel like the key is that unlike probably many of the other people trying to build a machine to do this, was the time that he spent watching handcrafters do it.
14:51 Tracy V. Wilson? Right.
14:52 Holly Frey? Like, that was the thing he was so finicky about trying to capture.
14:58 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. The discussion about the Lasters Union.
15:04 Tracy V. Wilson? Really reminded me of the Luddites, which we have an episode on that's already been as a Saturday classic, but the Luddites were not anti-technology. They were against technologies that were putting people out of work and also, in that case, making an inferior product.
15:20 Holly Frey? Yeah, which was not the case. They actually, the Luddites are actually invoked in that 1955 article that we quoted because that historian specifically is like, this one was very different from the way the Luddite uprising happened. Nobody was trying to destroy machinery. So that author does kind of a brief, a very brief comparison of the two.
15:42 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, I think had the stocking frames and things that the Luddites were objecting to, number one, not been cranking out inferior product and number two, not been putting people out of work.
15:53 Holly Frey? Yeah.
15:53 Tracy V. Wilson? It probably also would have been a situation where people were like, great, now I can make, now I can make my living.
16:01 Holly Frey? Without breaking my body.
16:03 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, without breaking my body.
16:04 Holly Frey? Yeah.
16:06 Tracy V. Wilson? But it was, that was not the case. And it would not have been the case with the shoe lasting machine had the factory owners just replaced all of the lasters with children or people who had no training.
16:22 Holly Frey? Yeah.
16:23 Tracy V. Wilson? So like the, the lasters advocacy for themselves, I think is a big thing that made that a different situation.
16:30 Holly Frey? Yeah. One of the theories that I read, and I don't have a lot to expound on it, but it would make a little bit of sense, is that there are some people that believe that Matt Saliger got so sick because he was so driven, he was physically exhausted all the time. Like that his immune system was just not able to function. I don't know, but I wanted to mention it in case anyone was curious. The other thing though, that I wanted to mention, because when we were reading, particularly at the end, Tracy, you had that moment of like 230 factories in this one place?
17:10 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh huh.
17:11 Holly Frey? Yes. At the time, Lynn and all of Massachusetts, but specifically Lynn, was making most of the shoes that went all over the US and some parts of Europe. So.
17:23 Tracy V. Wilson? Well, and, and my disbelief at the number of factories was coming in part from. Living close to Lynn and sort of knowing what the lay of the land in this region is like. And that just still felt like so many shoe factories.
17:41 Tracy V. Wilson? Just sort of, you know, having a sense of where all these towns are and cities are and how connected they are to each other.
17:50 Tracy V. Wilson? So, yeah, I probably wouldn't have had that question if I didn't know exactly where Lynn was.
17:56 Holly Frey? Right.
17:58 Holly Frey? Man, it's the shoe capital. So I bet if you walked around Lynn.
18:03 Tracy V. Wilson? Oh, I had that thought. Yeah.
18:05 Holly Frey? You would start noticing some Jan Matziliger stuff.
18:08 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, for sure.
18:09 Holly Frey? I really, really do love, though, that he is still inspiring shoemakers today. To me, that's just like the coolest legacy ever.
18:19 Tracy V. Wilson? Right.
18:19 Holly Frey? To be like, hey, I have made sneakers for the biggest shoe brands in the world, but what I really want to do is honor this guy.
18:28 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
18:28 Holly Frey? Who was a black inventor that gets very little play on the world stage.
18:34 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
18:34 Holly Frey? And I just love it so much. Love it.
18:38 Tracy V. Wilson? I like that after becoming disabled and ill, he still had his community.
18:47 Holly Frey? Yes.
18:48 Tracy V. Wilson? Because like, if we lived in a perfectly accessible world where all the buildings and all the transportation and all the everything was accessible to everyone, there would still be people who couldn't really get out of their homes because of their illnesses or disability or just the amount of effort that it takes to get ready and leave the house.
19:14 Holly Frey? Yeah.
19:15 Tracy V. Wilson? And that can be incredibly isolating. Frequently, even people who do have church communities or other seemingly tight knit communities will see all of those folks drift off after a while and then just be in a situation where they're really isolated and don't have a lot of contact with other people. So the fact that he continued to have that social network and social support is something that I appreciate about his story and the community that he had around him.
19:44 Holly Frey? Well, and what's interesting, I did not get to go super far down this rabbit hole. But it seems like the reverberations of that community continued well into the 20th century because like that stamp that was made, I only read like one little blurb about its origination was instigated by a woman whose parents had been part of his social circle. And she was like, hey, you know, this was someone everyone loved. And long after he was dead, everybody talked about how much they loved him in addition to how important his work was.
20:24 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
20:24 Holly Frey? Maybe we should make an honor to him. So like, I feel like that's like an incredible legacy of community, right?
20:30 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
20:31 Holly Frey? She grew up hearing about this guy for decades.
20:34 Tracy V. Wilson? Right.
20:34 Holly Frey? I love it.
20:35 Tracy V. Wilson? Right.
20:36 Holly Frey? Love it.
20:37 Tracy V. Wilson? Um, I'm still baffled by 230 shoe factories. We've talked about it three times. It's like, and even knowing the importance of shoes, that's still so many factories.
20:46 Holly Frey? Does it help to consider the fact that factories in the early 1900s were much smaller than factories today?
20:54 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, for sure.
20:56 Holly Frey? Yeah, like you could think of them as, you know, some I'm sure were huge in cavernous, but many were probably like the size of a nice house.
21:03 Tracy V. Wilson? Okay.
21:03 Holly Frey? Right? Like,
21:04 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
21:05 Holly Frey? They're not necessarily all big giant echo chambers of like multi levels, like
21:11 Tracy V. Wilson? Hundreds of people working there.
21:13 Holly Frey? Factories that we think of today. Yeah. I mean,
21:16 Tracy V. Wilson? I think the population of Lynn at this time was something like 35,000 or 40,000 people.
21:21 Holly Frey? Yeah.
21:22 Tracy V. Wilson? So like, it is, anyway, shoes, so many shoes.
21:25 Holly Frey? Everybody worked in shoes, essentially. Um, it's like their entire identity. Uh, anyway, shoes, I love them. Bam, bam, bam. Uh, thanks, Jan Metzleiger, because I like my shoes and I have a lot, as we know.
21:41 Tracy V. Wilson? Yes, Holly is recording in a shoe closet.
21:44 Holly Frey? My overflow.
21:46 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, I can see behind Holly as we are recording, one of those like over the door shoe organizers. And then there is a shoe shelf that I can also see off to Holly's right. Yeah.
22:00 Holly Frey? And then the whole room behind me, our entire guest room is floor to ceiling shelves with shoes. When people come to stay, I always joke that I'm gonna make them sign an NDA that they will not disclose the number of shoes they have witnessed in the house.
22:17 Holly Frey? Look, it's a lot and I love them. And because I have a lot, they never wear out because I'm rotating.
22:22 Tracy V. Wilson? Sure.
22:23 Holly Frey? I'm trying to be, um, to slow my roll on acquisitions. Because I'm out of shoe space. But then somebody will make some adorable, cool, kitschy, ridiculous shoe. And I'm like, I have to have that.
22:39 Tracy V. Wilson? Right.
22:40 Holly Frey? I can kiss it. I can.
22:43 Holly Frey? Even if I don't wear it, I need it. Um, yeah. Shoes. I love them. I love them. I don't have to send anybody to college. We don't have kids.
22:53 Tracy V. Wilson? Right.
22:53 Holly Frey? Can buy shoes. I do remember there was an episode that you had referenced once of Judge John Hodgson. About a couple that was arguing over shoes and you blurted out the number of shoes the woman had, like as though it was an astronomical number. And I was just real quiet for a second.
23:10 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. I also don't know if I, I remember that conversation and I also think I was like recreating this episode from memory. And I don't know if the number I said was the right number, but the number I said was definitely a number of shoes that I would feel like is a lot of shoes.
23:26 Holly Frey? Yeah. I mean, uh, listen, if you only want four to 10 to 20 pairs of shoes in your life, that seems very lean to me, but that's what a lot of people run with. And keep in mind, like, I have collected shoes for decades. So like, it's not like I go out every day and buy 20 more pairs of shoes.
23:48 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
23:48 Holly Frey? Some of these shoes are old. Some are shoes that were given to me that were antiques. That are still wearable in some cases. Um, they're all over the map. Anyway, I love shoes. That's the, thank you, Yana and Smatzalager, because I love shoes and you make me smile all the time with your invention. The end.
24:12 Holly Frey? If this is your weekend coming up, I hope that you get to wear as many shoes as you wish. Maybe change them every 20 minutes if you want. I'm not going to judge. If shoes aren't your thing, I hope whatever makes you happy is something you can engage with this weekend. If this isn't time off, I still hope you find things that make you happy. We will be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode, and then on Monday, you'll have something brand new.
24:39 Tracy V. Wilson? Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
24:54 Tracy V. Wilson? Deanna Flores is a flag football star, a trailblazer, an entrepreneur, and now host of a new podcast.
25:00 Holly Frey? In Born to Become with Deanna Flores, she's sitting down with people from every corner of culture to find the whole person behind the public identity.
25:09 Tracy V. Wilson? Every episode, you'll get to know Deanna, her guests, and even yourself a little better. No lectures, no know-it-all host, just real people being real.
25:16 Holly Frey? Listen to Born to Become with Deanna Flores, out now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Created in partnership with Geico. A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
25:56 Tracy V. Wilson? Whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country, or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile, staying connected matters. Those small conversations, shared laughs, and quick hellos are what keep relationships strong even when life gets busy. Some of the most life-giving conversations start with just a phone call. That's why AT&T guarantees the network you can rely on, so you can focus on the moments and people that matter most. That's the AT&T Guarantee. AT&T: Connecting Changes Everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details.
26:34 Speaker 05 Live Right, publishers of John U. Bacon's New York Times bestseller, The Gales of November, a chronicle of the S. S. Edmund Fitzgerald's 1975 shipwreck. Never has it been told better than by Mr. Bacon in this colorful book, writes John J. Miller of The Wall Street Journal, while author Hampton Sides proclaims that it's destined to be a classic. The Gales of November, now in paperback.
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27:32 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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