Pod Insights Habits and Hustle Episode 454: Group Fitness Reality Check: Why F45 and Barry's Bootcamp Might Be Sabotaging Your Goals About this episode Is group fitness helping or hurting your body composition goals? In this Fitness Friday episode on the Habits and Hustle podcast, Liron and I dive into the controversial world of group fitness classes like Orange Theory, Barry's Bootcamp, and F45.
We discuss why these high-intensity classes can spike your appetite, burn out your adrenals, and leave you injured—plus what's actually working in the group fitness space. We also explore the rise of Hyrox as a better alternative to CrossFit, why Pilates shouldn't be your only workout, and the social benefits that keep people coming back despite the drawbacks.
Liron Kayvan founded BFLA in 2019. He's a NASM Certified Group Fitness Instructor, Personal Trainer, and Transformative Life Coach. Liron has competed in Amateur MMA, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and Rugby and has been a Fitness Coach for over 10 years.
What we discuss:
The rise and reality of group fitness popularity
Why Barry's Bootcamp can spike cortisol and appetite
The "aimless running around" problem in most classes
Hyrox vs. CrossFit: A safer group fitness alternative
Why Pilates alone won't change your body composition
The social benefits that make group fitness worthwhile
When group fitness works vs. when it backfires
The importance of having specific fitness goals
Why "something is better than nothing" still applies
How to choose group fitness that actually serves your goals
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Find more about Liron Kayvan:
Website: https://www.beyondfitnessla.com/
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Find more from Jen:
Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/
Instagram: @therealjencohen
Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books
Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Speaker 00 Hi guys, this is Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.
0:08 Jen Cohen? Hey friends, you're listening to Fitness Friday on the Habits and Hustle Podcast, where myself and my friends share quick and very actionable advice for you becoming your healthiest self. So stay tuned and let me know how you leveled up.
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1:54 Jen Cohen? All right, welcome to another edition of Fitness Friday. I have my friend Liron.
1:58 Speaker 02 Hello.
1:59 Jen Cohen? Hello. Joining me, which he does on the regular. We just banter back and forth and we pick a fitness topic. I'm always remiss to say this, but I really love feedback. I love comments. I love knowing what you guys want to have more of, less of. It really helps with the podcast. It really helps kind of guide who we have on the show, what we actually talk about. So please, any feedback is good feedback. Also, if you've not subscribed to this podcast, please hit the button because it makes a massive difference. It really helps with the algorithm and I always forget to mention that.
2:40 Jen Cohen? And I just want to make sure that we keep providing good information and the people can hear it. So if we don't have subscribers, it's really hard to stay on the charts. So please, please, please, I beg you guys, if you haven't hit that button, please do so. All right, without further ado.
2:59 Speaker 02 Without further ado.
3:00 Jen Cohen? Here we are. Okay, Liron, you know what I want to talk about today?
3:04 Speaker 02 What?
3:05 Jen Cohen? The idea and group fitness overall, right? Because the F45s, the Orange Theory, the Barry's Bootcamp. Because there is some controversy around if it's effective or not, especially when you're in middle age, right? For your hormones and all sorts of different things. The reason why I want to bring it up also is because I remember back when, not even that long ago, that was like the thing to do, right? Everybody wanted to do Barry's Bootcamp. If you went to Barry's Bootcamp, it was like the hardest workout in the world. You feel like you're sweating. It's like super difficult. You feel like you've done so much. But I actually, and you're going to hate me because I know, because Liron actually owns a group fitness gym,
3:51 Jen Cohen? which is kind of ironic.
3:52 Speaker 02 We do a lot of things, but group fitness is a big part of it.
3:54 Jen Cohen? Yeah, you do a lot of things, but group fitness is a big part of what you do. I want to know, and the first question I have, have you seen an incline or a decline in popularity with group fitness?
4:05 Speaker 02 I think an incline and I think it will continue.
4:10 Jen Cohen? Really?
4:10 Speaker 02 Yeah.
4:11 Jen Cohen? I mean, I think it's great for the social aspect, the community aspect. But now this may be controversial, but I'm not necessarily sure that if you really want to like change your body composition and get next level fit. It's the greatest like mode of exercise and I'll tell you why. I think because it's a lot of like running around aimlessly and you're not really doing heavy weight, you're kind of doing this, you know, you're kind of just like a lot of times it goes so fast, you're just trying to keep up. And it's a lot of cardio at the end of the day, even when, because the whole goal is to like make, to kill somebody, basically. And what I've had a lot of happen to me was I had a lot of injuries and I had my appetite
4:56 Jen Cohen? went like through the roof after that class. So I ended up eating double or triple the amount that I would have otherwise had if I just kind of did more of a moderate workout or just did strength training and a walk.
5:09 Jen Cohen? Go ahead.
5:10 Speaker 02 So I agree with both of the things you said. One, that group fitness is good for the social aspect and two, that a lot of group fitness is kind of aimlessly running around, like a blue ass fly, as we say in London.
5:26 Jen Cohen? What did you say?
5:27 Speaker 02 A blue ass fly.
5:28 Jen Cohen? Never heard that.
5:29 Speaker 02 I don't know where it comes from, stupid, stupid phrase, but it, it works.
5:34 Jen Cohen? For you, maybe, not for me. I wouldn't get away with it, but okay. Your accent, you can get away with anything.
5:39 Speaker 02 And I do, and I do. Yeah, so there is a lot of aimless running around in group fitness. So the thing I would point out is that the, the form of the group fitness is flexible, but the idea of group fitness, meaning people coming together for a shared goal is awesome. And the form of it can be awesome and it can be crap.
6:03 Jen Cohen? True. Okay, so I should have had that, I should have made that caveat, right? The idea of group fitness as a whole for the social aspect.
6:11 Speaker 02 Right.
6:11 Jen Cohen? Great.
6:12 Speaker 02 Big picture.
6:12 Jen Cohen? Big picture. And by the way, now you know, like people are. Now doing that like they're kind of doing these like more uh fitness.
6:20 Speaker 02 Run clubs.
6:20 Jen Cohen? Running clubs. Um. Instead of going to meet at a bar, people are doing dates by doing.
6:25 Speaker 02 You had a coffee and chill.
6:27 Jen Cohen? Coffee and chill, right? And just in terms of like a- all those things. I think for that aspect, it's amazing.
6:33 Speaker 02 Yeah.
6:34 Jen Cohen? But I'm talking about if you are somebody who has a particular fitness goal that you want to achieve. I don't think it's the best mode to get there. It but but if you're somebody who is who doesn't do anything. And you this is now you've now part now you're doing something. You're like now you're being active. It's amazing.
6:54 Speaker 02 Yeah.
6:55 Jen Cohen? Two different things though altogether.
6:56 Speaker 02 Yeah, for sure. I mean, there's definitely downsides um to group fitness because a lot of times you're losing quality for quantity. So unless you have a very skilled instructor or you're tailoring the workout very with great expertise, you get something very general. So you get like I don't actually know about Barry's and or his theory. I don't know much to be honest. I don't I don't know. I'm not that interested in it, to be honest. Like I get I have basically have the same feeling you have, not to hate on him. It works for a lot of people and a lot of people love it, especially Barry's. I know people who love Barry's. So it works for them, but I don't know specifically what I what they do.
7:31 Jen Cohen? I'll tell you what they do. Let me tell you what Barry's bootcamp does. They make you run at an ungodly pace that is almost impossible. And then they say now just put an incline at fifteen. And so now you're running so fast where like the fact like if you're not going to sprain an ankle or like bust your knee in the process, you are very lucky. And then they go back and forth between doing a lower body strength training and then going back on the treadmill or upper body strength training, or they have the core days. But I what I find is that it it burns your adrenal glands, number one. You can't be doing that every single day.
8:07 Speaker 02 Yeah.
8:08 Jen Cohen? And like I said, like you're like you're like dead at the end, but and you feel good because I personally, I love that feeling. But like I said, it was counterproductive because I was so hungry. I was starving after doing and those classes that I want I would like. Would eat anything and everything in sight, which then, like I said, it's counterproductive.
8:30 Speaker 02 Counterproductive, it's very, very common. I've heard that many times to do with cortisol and stress.
8:34 Jen Cohen? Yes, cuz that's your, that's exactly it. Like, if you're doing that once in a while, it's great. But to do that on a regular basis and like the, then you feel like guilted if you're not being, if you're not able to run at like 12 miles an hour at a 15 inch climb because the other person is. So I found it to be like, you know, like I just found it like, that's what I did when I was in my twenties and my thirties. But then like, I had to like back off a little bit from that. But anyway, that's what, that's what it is.
8:59 Speaker 02 Uh, PE class, I call it. Do you have PE class?
9:03 Jen Cohen? Yeah, you mean like phys ed?
9:04 Speaker 02 Phys ed, yeah.
9:05 Jen Cohen? Yeah, of course, but you're not doing Barry's bootcamp in, in like your shot in the.
9:09 Speaker 02 That, but this is what I'm saying is like, it's kind of untargeted. There's a little bit of a sadist kind of vibe to a lot of these group fitness. Again, don't know specifics on, but it's like just punish yourself and then the coach, like people get off on it. It's this weird S and M thing, you know, where the coach is like, you, can I swear?
9:30 Jen Cohen? Yes, you can swear.
9:30 Speaker 02 Yes, you know, like, whatever. I'm not going to now, but like, you, whatever it is. Basically the vibe, whether they say it with their words or not, is that, is that you're like some lowly, you know.
9:43 Jen Cohen? You're not good enough.
9:43 Speaker 02 You're not good enough. And then the people get off on it in the, like, I've seen it. There's a, there's a, there's a, I know a lot of people go to a specific gym. Who really that's the core foundational culture.
9:54 Jen Cohen? Really?
9:55 Speaker 02 His S and M thing where the guy.
9:56 Jen Cohen? Where is it?
9:57 Speaker 02 I'm not gonna name names. No, I'm not gonna name names, but you know it.
10:00 Jen Cohen? No, I don't know.
10:01 Speaker 02 It's in LA. It's kind of West Hollywood-ish, um, Beverly Hills.
10:05 Jen Cohen? And they get off on like just like.
10:07 Speaker 02 And there's a cult around it and it's.
10:08 Jen Cohen? Are they shaming somebody?
10:10 Speaker 02 Yeah, they, and they get, they love it. And to be fair, it works while they're doing it, but long term it doesn't.
10:16 Jen Cohen? Tell me, I wanna know where.
10:17 Speaker 02 I'll tell you off.
10:18 Jen Cohen? Why? I wanna know. I want everyone to know. I'm curious.
10:22 Speaker 02 It's not my style, but. Anyway, either way, what happens is in those classes is very untargeted. It's very not a long term thing, as you were saying, right? It's not a healthy, long term approach. It works while you're doing it. As soon as those people stop, they're usually fatter than they were, just unhealthier than they were. They've lost muscle, a lot of women lose periods. And I'm talking about maybe the, the extreme cases because it goes with this. It's basically like a form of sort of like anorexia, bulimia. It's all very negative. You know what I'm saying?
10:54 Jen Cohen? Well, you know, like I never understood. I'm going to, the, the one, the one that I never understood was spin classes, like SoulCycle. I never, I mean, besides the community aspect that I think that people love.
11:05 Speaker 02 But that's huge though, Jen. Like that, that is, you separate the positive and the negative and you take, you don't want to throw your, the baby out with the bathwater.
11:12 Jen Cohen? Yeah.
11:13 Speaker 02 So the, the, with Barry's, I've heard that the, the big thing, the big draw of Barry's is not the actual workout itself. It's the culture around it. So it's like the hot people and it's like a scene and it's a sexy place. And everyone feels sexy when they go there or they see other sexy people and they want to be, you know what I'm saying? So that is the emotional driver for people in everything, in, in everything. And, and fitness is absolutely number one for that. So it's motivating people to work out. So it is positive, but I think it's important to, to separate what people actually, what's productive about it? And what is not productive? It could be improved for sure.
11:53 Jen Cohen? Well, this is the thing. Have you heard of high rocks? It's like the new hottest thing.
11:56 Speaker 02 I've heard of it again. I don't, explain what it is.
11:59 Jen Cohen? See, to me, I, I, I like the concept of that because it's basically, I haven't done it. I want to do it. It's a high, well, it's kind of like, it's kind of taken over the, you know how CrossFit was massive?
12:10 Speaker 02 I was going to mention CrossFit and like the thing with CrossFit was people get, it's community, but people would get injured a lot.
12:16 Jen Cohen? Oh, well, that's what I'm saying. So, so the thing about all group fitness, right? Like when, when something takes off, it bill, it, it basically becomes like you said, it becomes like the culture. It becomes a, it's a socialization. It's the building of a community, all that, right? So CrossFit had its moment. CrossFit's still, I'm sure, popular with some people. But now like high rocks, is that what it's called even? Yeah. It's it's it's having its moment big time. Like I see it everywhere. A lot of my friends are doing it all the time. People I never even thought would even actually like partake in
12:47 Speaker 02 What's it composed of?
12:48 Jen Cohen? Fitness like that. And well, it's it's a it's a very much like what I like about it. It's it's hardcore, but involves it's kind of like rowing, like look it up. Hold on a minute. I'll show you. I'm going to tell you very specifically what it is. It basically is a fitness competition that combines endurance and strength. It consists of eight rounds of one kilometer runs, followed by eight different function fitness stations, such as sled pushes, burpees, broad jumps, farmer car, farmer carries. And the goal is to compete in the race as quickly as possible. So the whole purpose of it, like what it is gamified, basically.
13:29 Jen Cohen? So like they gamify this whole thing, but it's doing things that like, that's why I I prefer this type of hot, like high rocks versus like a CrossFit, because it's things that I think more of the general population can do if you if you train for it. Like if you train well, then you can get better at pushing a sled. If you train well, you can do burpees. If you train, you know, you can run a mile, right? CrossFit, I found had more dangerous moves like power lifts.
13:56 Speaker 02 Olympic lifting.
13:57 Jen Cohen? Yeah, like Olympic lifting and like things that like the average Joe will actually really hurt themselves.
14:02 Speaker 02 Especially in a class of 10, 20 people in a state of fatigue too. So that was the biggest thing is you need to be really dialed in for something like that. And because it's a group fitness atmosphere, this is the downside of it. People would be tired. There'd be 20 people in a class. The coach has not like, doesn't know who's doing what. And it's a recipe for disaster. So it sounds like high rocks has kind of fixed that issue.
14:24 Jen Cohen? Yeah, like the high rocks has been really good. So this is what it really incorporates, running, functional training, and basically the race format, right? Like who can finish first? And like I said, that is building a real community for people. And it's like the hot thing to do. And so I'm actually going to be doing one. I'm not sure where. Because they do it in different cities and it's a whole thing. But to me, and because you're not doing that all the time. What I love about it, it's also a goal that you can work towards, right? So like, if you want to get stronger, if you want to improve your endurance, then, you know, here's a great goal, now train for it. Versus going to a lot of these other group classes that really there's no real
15:07 Jen Cohen? goal. It's just like, yes, it's a great community and make someone work out. But it's just like, can you kill yourself today? Can you push yourself? Great. You did it. Okay, now go home. Like, that to me, you know, and I think with women, especially as we get older, especially in our 40s with hormone, like all the hormone issues we have. I don't think it's great as a, I don't really love that, like the orange theories. My friend's gonna kill me because he owns a bunch of them, but let's just say F45s or all those things. I don't think it's the greatest use of time if you're trying to really kind of build muscle, get stronger and get fitter.
15:43 Speaker 02 You never want to trade your long-term health for like a short-term aesthetic. Like, you don't want to, it's not a good, you know, trade. Like, yeah, you get skinnier or whatever in the short term, but then you've lost all your muscle or you're just like really burnt out or you have, your metabolism is down on the floor. Long-term, it's gonna come back and it's gonna come back with a vengeance. So I think people need to maintain their like long-term vision of what they want for their body and don't sacrifice the short-term for the long-term.
16:17 Jen Cohen? Right. And I will also just say, besides like have a goal in place. Again, if you are not doing something, this is a great aspect of community building. If it, if it motivates you to work out, I think it's great. If you have a specific fitness goal in mind, you may want to do something in addition to it. But that's basically all. So again, you guys should try high rock. If you like, try something like that where you have a goal and you can sign up with a bunch of friends, which I think is a great other social element. And yeah, if you're in LA, you should also go check out Lee Run's classes. You do boxing classes, right?
16:50 Speaker 02 We do hybrid. So we do boxing, we do. A little bit of like our twist on Pilates, we do a bunch of weightlifting. But the flagship, like the, the main thing that everyone loves is the combination of weightlifting and boxing. So you're getting two very different systems. You're getting muscle building, you're getting fat burning. You're getting, you know, power and you're getting metabolic conditioning. So you're really training to be very well rounded.
17:17 Jen Cohen? Right, that's good, that's good. One other thing I wanted to bring up was Pilates. Pilates is the number one workout.
17:24 Speaker 02 That's why we have our, our twist on it.
17:27 Jen Cohen? Well, so Pilates is the number one workout like of twenty twenty five. Everyone like Pilates is like on a huge.
17:33 Speaker 02 Been around a while too.
17:34 Jen Cohen? Been around forever.
17:35 Speaker 02 I love that, I respect that.
17:36 Jen Cohen? But it's become like, it's become like the workout of the, of the year.
17:40 Speaker 02 Yeah.
17:40 Jen Cohen? My opinion, if anyone cares to know.
17:44 Speaker 02 I think, I think they do, it's your show.
17:46 Jen Cohen? I don't know, I mean, listen, I know, I, I would say if my opinion is, I think it's a great additive to something else you're doing. I don't think.
17:53 Speaker 02 Yeah, I agree.
17:53 Jen Cohen? I don't think Pilates takes the, like, it does never, doesn't, doesn't take the place of strength training.
17:59 Speaker 02 Or endurance.
18:00 Jen Cohen? Or endurance training. It's great if you want to strengthen your core. But I think the misconception is if you do Pilates, you're going to have like an elongated dancer's body. Because you think, you see, like, you see these images of like, these like beautiful ballerina type bodies, like these lean, tall girls going by the droves to Pilates, and that's just not realistic. I mean, unless that's, unless that's their genetic type, okay. But if, I just don't think that Pilates is going to move the needle that much for you. So I think, you know, I think that if you want to deploy all the power to you, but if you really want to change.
18:35 Speaker 02 Shouldn't be your only workout.
18:36 Jen Cohen? It should not be your only workout.
18:37 Speaker 02 In general, I think this is a theme that both of us like harp on quite a lot is you, you do want to have more than one type of training. Like you do want to be well rounded. I think that's really important. Like my protocol always, like my training protocol always has an element of, even though I say I don't like cardio, because when I'm talking about cardio, I'm talking about like walking or running on a treadmill. But I play soccer every single week. I box every single week. My heart rate is going up to. One A plus every single like numerous times a week. So being a well rounded, well balanced athlete or just person in general is super crucial. And I think a good group fitness gym will try at least to check those boxes
19:21 Speaker 02 or admit that they only do one thing and that somebody should be changing something.
19:25 Jen Cohen? By the way, like most gyms don't aren't doing what you do. I think people are doing a lot of these like one offs. So I'll go somewhere for Pilates, I'll go to one place for Pilates.
19:33 Speaker 02 Class passes.
19:34 Jen Cohen? Not even, by the way, not even ClassPass anymore. Just like, hey, you know what, like I like this place for Pilates, I'll go there.
19:40 Speaker 02 Yeah.
19:40 Jen Cohen? Um, I'll go to like a main gym to do my, my strength training and my cardio. I'll go to a boxing gym to do my boxing. Like they, it's very fragmented now, which is fine. But I guess my point is, there's two different points. My point is if you really want to change your body in a real way, then maybe, you know, do Pilates in addition to something else like strength training. But the other thing is, again, the other component is if you just want to move and that's the only thing you like, then something is better than nothing. And like that social element again, but I just think that, like I said, everything has its like 15 minutes of, of glory and fame. And I think Pilates is like having it right now.
20:20 Speaker 02 But it's been around a long time.
20:22 Jen Cohen? It has, but like, I'm telling you.
20:24 Speaker 02 It really taps into a niche though. It's very much a, a woman's.
20:28 Jen Cohen? A female thing.
20:29 Speaker 02 Thing. It has, it has no eccentric component, I think it's very little eccentric.
20:33 Jen Cohen? I, I actually, there are guys, a lot of, a lot of.
20:36 Speaker 02 It started by a guy, pretty hardcore dude, Mr. Pilates. He was a hardcore German guy.
20:40 Jen Cohen? Really?
20:40 Speaker 02 Boxer, weightlifter, like serious, serious guy.
20:44 Jen Cohen? Well, the, I, I see a lot sometimes, the professional athlete guys I know, they go to Pilates on their like active recovery days or like their off days, just to kind of like do other things, just for like stretching.
20:57 Speaker 02 Band work, activation, you know, hip flexes.
21:01 Jen Cohen? Yeah, but some of these classes could be very challenging in these intricate muscles that you just don't ever, ever work. Again, I have nothing, I have nothing against Pilates. I just don't think it should be your be all end all. And with that, I think we should wrap this. Group fitness and then move on to next topics. But tell us, what is your favorite group fitness class? Have you guys tried high rocks? Because like I said, I'm very curious and I'm going to try it very soon. And tell us what you think. Do you agree? Do you disagree? Always comments, feedback, so important. Thanks, Leiron, for being here.
21:33 Speaker 02 You're welcome.
Previous Episode 451: Dave Asprey: Marketing Secrets That Built a $20 Billion Biohacking Industry Next Episode 455: Dr. Vishal Patel: Why Your Feet Control Your Longevity and Most Wellness Tech Is Wrong Page updated November 3, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
