205. Rajeev Kapur: How AI Is Transforming Healthcare

What if AI could change the way we understand, manage, and optimize our health? In today's episode, my guest is Rajeev Kapur, a leading AI advisor, educator, speaker, and author who helps non technical leaders understand how to turn artificial intelligence into practical, actionable results. We dive into AI in healthcare, personalized health, health optimization, and the ideas behind our co authored book, Your New Health OS. We explore how artificial intelligence could help move healthcare beyond simply treating disease and toward a more proactive approach focused on understanding the individual, connecting health information, and optimizing long term health. In this episode, we learn: • How AI could transform the future of healthcare • The difference between disease care and true health optimization • How AI can empower patients to better understand their own health data • How artificial intelligence can connect insights across different medical specialties • How AI could improve communication between doctors and patients • Why learning how to effectively interact and prompt AI matters • How AI may influence chronic disease management, drug discovery, and biological research • What AI could mean for personalized healthcare and medicine • How artificial intelligence could change the way we think about longevity • What the concept of longevity escape velocity could mean for the future of human health Rajeev brings a practical perspective to one of the biggest technological shifts happening in healthcare today. Together, we explore an important idea: AI isn't simply another tool for healthcare professionals. It could fundamentally change how we understand health, make decisions, and take responsibility for our own health journeys. Listen to this episode for a fascinating conversation about AI in healthcare, personalized medicine, health optimization, and longevity, and discover how your own "Health OS" could change the way you approach your health in the years ahead. Pre-Order Dr. Shah and Rajeev Kapurs book, Your New Health OS, today at amazon.com/Your-New-Health-OS-Healthier https://www.amazon.com/Your-New-Health-OS-Healthier/dp/1969905158/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2P7UVDU5VAL4L&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9. PFog9i_YeRtCXtNukUrdCceIpYxTfbRMyjO2Ki0BZwROfXG5vw9mdisgQ7w6IIS8g4iRcG21x5RNmrd4vAIgjgbH02zmpVI-TAWOzaeYtXw-L_es2m-bNmOBUUXdANyp7YbGFL6uTugsQQnG6WYfE7PY8v0-mvyK_QqN83RSwJqqTtI5YcL8V-VyizfbklFiwK7MvyTAyd2cevt5RKHJDfa-iuE1IIE6Wk8sysLaG9U. EnMM6U6WUDNDBhdwQ0R-ifaLmtl6L4fcdBz3XWeklKk&dib_tag=se&keywords=your+new+health+os&qid=1791387465&sprefix=your+new+health+o%2Caps%2C193&sr=8-1 Learn more about Dr. Shah: Website: drshah.com https://www.drshah.com/ Clinic: next-health.com Instagram: @extend_podcast and @darshanshahmd Learn more about Rajeev Kapur: Website: https://rajeev.ai/ Book: AI Made Simple Instagram: therajeevkapur Thank You To Our Sponsor! Next Health: Your destination for cutting-edge health optimization—from IV therapy to hormone balancing. Explore at next-health.com https://www.next-health.com/ Momentous: Head to livemomentous.com https://livemomentous.com and use my code DRSHAH at checkout for up to 35% Off!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Welcome to Extend with me, Dr. Darshan Shah, a podcast dedicated to cutting-edge science, research, tools, and protocols designed to help you extend your health span. Having become one of the youngest doctors in the country at the age of 21, and trained and board certified at the Mayo Clinic, I've accumulated three decades of practice as a board certified surgeon and longevity expert. Over that time, I've discovered that a mere 20% of health knowledge yields 80% of the results when it comes to your health span. We're living in a new era where we are creating a new healthcare system, no longer focused on disease management, but achieving optimal health and vitality. Join me as I interview world renowned experts, offering you a step by step guide to proactively avoid disease and most importantly, extend your health span.

• 0:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hello, everyone. Welcome to this episode of Extend. This is a very unique and special episode to me because we're going to dive deep into the pages of a brand new book that I co-wrote with our incredible guest, Rajiv Kapoor. This book is called Your New Health OS, and it's about AI and how you can use it for your health. Rajiv is an internationally renowned speaker, a brilliant technology leader, and an authority on AI, who has already written three books on AI, and there are more on the way. In this episode, Rajiv and I are going to explore how AI is completely and rapidly transforming the healthcare landscape, moving us away from traditional reactive disease into true proactive health optimization. We're going to discuss everything from how AI can act as a medical quarterback in acute

• 1:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  hospital settings, to bridging different modalities of medicine, managing mental health crises, and empowering patients with actionable data. If you want to know how the biggest technological development since electricity is about to revolutionize your personal health journey, you are not going to want to miss this conversation.

• 1:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Rajiv, my friend, thanks so much for joining me today.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Darshan, my friend, thank you. Thank you for having me.

• 2:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, so this is a very unique episode for me because we are talking about the book that we co-wrote together called Your New Health OS. That's now on Amazon for pre-sale.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  I know, that's crazy. I can't believe, I mean, we've talked about doing something like this for such a long time, and the fact that we finally did it, and we had some great support and help, and the fact that it's here and it's available for preorder on Amazon right now. So everybody go get it. It's exciting. So thank you, by the way, for everything you did to help and get this out the door.

• 2:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, this book, you know, came from a conversation with you about how AI is just completely and very rapidly changing the healthcare game, right? And I think your deep specialty in AI and your career so far, you're an internationally renowned speaker around AI, you really, you've written what, three books now on AI? And is that right? Three or four, something like that?

• 2:56Speaker 01

  Three and three more to come.

• 2:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Three and three more to come, right? And so all of your knowledge that you impart around AI in general, I just thought it was just a perfect moment and the perfect combination of us coming together to really help people walk through how they should think about using AI in their own health journey.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, look, I mean, I think the beauty of this relationship is you bring this amazing medical and future forward looking vision, right, of what medicine could be and what longevity and health can be. And I can bring the AI aspect of it, but I can also bring, I think, with the general consumer now, they're going to use these tools to interact with their doctors and whoever they're, you know, whoever it might be. So I just love this relationship, and I think it comes through in the book really well.

• 3:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It really does. And so this was a lot of fun for us to write together, too. So just to kick off the conversation, I think we can divide it up into two segments, or maybe even three. So the way I like to think about health in general is, you know, you have this world of disease care and disease management, and the whole Western medical system is kind of focused around diagnosing disease and curing and taking care of disease and making sure people have the right pharmaceuticals to treat their symptoms for disease, right? So that's one aspect of healthcare, and I, you know, health being in quotes. And then there's the other aspect of health, which is true health. And that to me is how do we function optimally every day? How do we make sure our brain and our body stays sharp

• 4:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  for the rest of our life and our health span matches our lifespan? And I think AI has tools and massive implications in both of those two buckets. And so I just, you know, I feel like it's almost like a separate or different conversation than what we can use it for, but also there's a lot of overlap as well. And for me, like, I just feel that AI is going to be the most significant thing that's happened in healthcare since the discovery of antibiotics and anesthesia. It's just going to be a game changing moment. Do you agree with that?

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, 100%, right? And to me, if you think about AI in general, to me, it's the greatest development in humanity since electricity.

• 5:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Right? So, so the leap of saying it's the greatest thing since antibiotics is not that big of a leap within the grand scheme of things, right? So you were mentioning about this Western medicine concept. The beauty of AI is now, if you just learn how to communicate and talk to AI, which is what 95% of the people, all they need to do is how do you ask the right question in ChatGPT or Claude or whatever you want to use, now you can say, hey, how do I bring the best of Western medicine, Eastern medicine, other philosophies, other things, you know, other modalities together, right, to help solve these things? Because who's to say Western medicine by itself has all the answers? Maybe there might be some Chinese medicines, and there might be some oral medicine, there might be something from India, or wherever it might be, right? So the fact that AI can now bring all these

• 5:46Speaker 01

  things together and give you answers that you, but more importantly, it'll give you questions you can now work with your doctor with, which is really what's great, because it, and it's all about providing the user with that information. So like, think about yourself, like, I think the thing I think that makes you such an amazing doctor is you're so knowledgeable, but imagine how much more effective you can be if it's a true partnership with your patient.

• 6:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Right? And I think that that's what AI enables. Don't you agree with that?

• 6:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Absolutely, absolutely. Like, to your point on the first thing that you said, bringing in different modalities of medicine, even within medicine, we are so subspecialized. And so you go see a neurologist, that doctor has a deep knowledge about your brain, but sometimes they don't make the connection between their deep knowledge base and other deep knowledge bases out there, like, for example, the gut, right, or the cardiovascular system. And these are all, we know the body interacts with every system interacts with every other system, right? There's a gut-brain connection, there's a cardiovascular-brain connection, there's connections between every single system. And the beautiful thing about AI is it can actually bring in multiple specialties under one knowledge base. And

• 6:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  so I know a lot of doctors use it as well now for almost every time they see a patient. If they're not using it, that's a problem. I think there's, there's definitely a learning curve there, but once you start using AI in your own clinical practice, it can at least give you potentially like facts or things you haven't thought about that come from other specialties. And so, you know, I just wanted to ask you, like, how do you see physicians using AI to better their practices?

• 7:21Speaker 01

  Well, I think one of the things you just said, right? So it's all about the communication and information sharing. So I'll give you an example, a personal example. So if you remember, I reached out to you about three months ago, my, I had a gallbladder problem.

• 7:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  And I was in Mexico City, I just got done doing a talk, and literally my gallbladder exploded, right? And I had little gallstones all over inside the bile ducts, and I was just, it was bad. Went to the emergency room, had surgery, had gallbladder removed. I remember talking to you. And one of my biggest frustration points was the cardiologist doctor, or the cardiologist, doesn't know what the, was, you know, what, let's say, you know, the nephrologist, and they have to talk. And then you have the guy who's trying to quarterback everything. And, you know, it just felt like there's four, or five, or six, or seven different cooks in the kitchen.

• 8:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  So if you ask me where I think this is going to be a year from now, and quite frankly, it just happened to me last night, where ChatGPT now incorporates into the health app, Apple's Health app. So over time, you're going to start to see all these things start to integrate. And so the best way, if I'm a doctor, to think about this, is how does AI help become a quarterback to coordinate all these things together? So for example, hey, if I, if you've got a patient in the hospital because of a gallbladder problem, maybe they have cardiology, cardiologist issues, or whatever the case might be, well, and you can't get a hold of their cardiologist, well, AI can, has their history, has their MIT chart, has everything to say, oh, Rajiv is on the statin, or Rajiv is on this blood pressure medicine, or whatever

• 8:53Speaker 01

  it might be, oh, this blood pressure may not be compatible with this medicine, you know, for the gallbladder, or whatever it might be, or however they want to structure it. So that's where, so no more do you have this finger pointing of, well, we got to wait for this doctor to call me back, or that doctor to call me back. And it just feels so frustrating to the, to the patient laying in the bed, because you've got six or seven different doctors, and how are they all communicating with each other? And so they all look at the nurse, and the nurse ends up becoming like the primary go-to person. So the fact that all this information is going to be there, the future, the real successful doctors, the ones who are going to be really like getting the top ratings, are the ones who are going to realize, okay, I can use AI to quarterback and control and really provide this information to the patient laying in the bed to make them happy.

• 9:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, it's going to be a game changing moment, because, you know, I remember going through medical training and going and doing, being in the hospital and doing rounds in the hospital, right? And part of doing rounds is I would do a round with my surgical team, because I'm a surgeon. And then we'd go to the chart, and we'd open up the chart, and there'd be a note from the cardiologist, a note from the nephrologist, and you'd have to synthesize all this information that occurred very episodically. Over the last 24 hours for every patient. And then that takes a lot of time and energy. And also, it's really hard to connect all the dots. Because there's a lot of dots to connect. You have all these different subspecialties. And then you have the constant information coming from the nursing staff, coming from the vito sign monitoring,

• 10:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  coming from the laboratories that are being put in there, coming from the pharmacies that are giving the drugs, et cetera. And it's a lot of information for any one person to synthesize. To your point, the nurse ends up taking a lot of that role when you're in the hospital setting. So I see a massive role of AI in the acute care setting, where it is a constant care partner for every single patient laying in the hospital. That is constantly being fed all the information that the monitoring devices are collecting, which, you know, we can talk about that too. The monitoring is going to be incredible now with sensors as well that we've never had before. And really being a resource for all the care providers. And then also the patient having a dashboard that they can ask questions through, that they can ask, what's going on right now?

• 11:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I'm feeling nausea. What do you think's happening? So that they don't have to wait for the doctor to get called and come by the bedside, et cetera. Now, obviously, we have to be careful, right? Because AI does have limitations. There's, you know, hallucinations that we know occur. There are conclusions that are put out there that, you know, that I think there's a a sense that AI gives you what you want to hear sometimes, right? So that's a second potential issue. And thirdly, sometimes AI is programmed or references bad data as well to create its knowledge base. So, you know, with those three kind of caveats in place, how do you think AI is doing now as far as mitigating for those problems?

• 11:44Speaker 01

  Well, it's a good

• 11:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  In general.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  It's a good question. It's a good point, right? So yes, AI hallucinates, it makes up stuff all the time. That's why it's still, but it's gonna be, so that's just a function of data and training data, right? And so in some cases where there's gaps, where the LLM companies of the world have to do is create synthetic data, right? So for example, like, no, no car company wants to have a video or data about cars hitting people, because you need real cars hitting real people. So you have to create synthetic.

• 12:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Right? Does that make sense? So you're not going to have like a, no, no, no car company say, oh, let me record a video of a kid running behind a school bus into the middle of the street and boom, right?

• 12:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  So you have to create that. You have to create a synthetic version of what that looks like and then train on that. So you're gonna start to see an uplift of this kind of synthetic data worlds for more of that stuff that comes up, right? So that's number one. Number two is you're already starting to see tools come out that are trained really well. I mean, we talked about open evidence.

• 12:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  I mean, open evidence, for those, for those who are not familiar, open evidence is kind of like a chat GPT, but it's only for doctors. And you need a medical license to access it. And open evidence is kind of like Harvey, you know, Harvey.ai, which does for legal, open evidence is doing for the medical world, right? And they just raised a ton of money at a great valuation. Even some of the things that, you know, you guys are starting to look at here at Next Health, some of the tools you're looking at have some of that. I mean, I'm a member of Lifetime Fitness, they now have AI integrated right into the app to say, oh, this is the type of workout you should do. So, so right now, the challenge in the AI space is you have all this data just coming in. And data is great, but pure raw data, you can't really do anything with it. You gotta refine it. And where the real opportunity, where the real winners are going to be to saying, okay, how do I, how do I refine this now?

• 13:25Speaker 01

  To put everything in one spot where it's all kind of mixing together to really provide that solution to the end consumer, in this case, the patient at the other end. Now, if you're listening to this, and we write, we say this in the book at least three or four times, we highly recommend that you do everything and under the support and supervision of your doctor.

• 13:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  And the beauty of this is that AI has a transcript. So you can show the transcript to your doctor. And we're seeing that a lot in medical professionals. Like, one of the biggest use cases of chat GPT, if a couple of months ago, was mental health. With mental health care. And so I know, and I talk about this in my talk, I mean, we, we have a, there's a fellow YPOer of ours out of South Carolina, he called me up one day, this was like maybe about a year ago, where he was having a severe mental health crisis. And I convinced him, hey, look, this is use chat GPT, let's, let's give it a persona, I gave it a persona and help you out until you can get back in to see, to see your therapist. And so he loved it. He did it. And, you know, and so now he uses it on a regular basis whenever he has his issues.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  And so his therapist initially wasn't very happy with him that he did it. But the therapist knows that he, you know what, what do I do at three o'clock in the morning when the guy's having a mental health breakdown?

• 14:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Or what do I do at three o'clock in the afternoon when I'm busy with another patient or another client and I can't see him?

• 14:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  Right? So it's a good way to supplement. And I think that's what you're gonna start seeing. I think if you, if people learn how to really communicate and talk to, and that's what this, I think this book does a really good job of, is really teaching people of how to just start to communicate.

• 14:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  And, and I think that's what's going to be a home run. I mean, you look, you see it all the time. You here at Next, you know, at Next Health, you guys have amazing folks who talk to patients all day long. And they can be armed with data and your new app that's coming is going to be amazing. That's going to arm people with data, arm people with information. And the more we can arm people with information, the more that you can provide that service, the better off everybody's gonna be. It's gonna be a win-win.

• 15:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, I think feeding it the data is one part of the solution. The second part is what you talked about there too, is giving it a persona. So it knows in what way it should be responding to you, right? And so, so we talk about prompting to reduce hallucinations, create a persona. You can even tell it to be less sycophantic and making you feel like you're right all the time and giving you the answer you want to hear. And I think this is a really important skill for people to have, is how do you prompt the AI in a way that it gets you the right answers and also helps you sort through the situation that you're trying to sort through?

• 15:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's the real opportunity, right? That's the real science behind this whole thing. And what people don't realize is that it's like talking to AI is like almost learning another language.

• 16:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  And it's being comfortable and it's, it's understanding and asking the right question. So the best way to think about prompting in this case is give AI a role. So what is that role you want it to give? I want that AI to be, the role is to be my cardiologist. Well, whatever, what is the task? The task is to review my blood work, to help improve my heart age or reduce, help improve my VO2. Whatever, whatever the task might be, what's the context? Context is, hey, I'm of Asian Indian descent, I was born in the US. You know, I'm on a statin or whatever context you want to provide. Or hey, I, I've had a surgery from a bicycle accident in my leg. Or you need to provide a context. And then what's the ask? So, and what is that ask?

• 16:53Speaker 01

  Build me a plan to improve my resting heart rate by 30% over the next 18 months. And then what you want to do is once you do that, you then build a loop. Say, I want you to then review this plan and go back and create a council and review this prompt in your answer with a council of other doctors. So one of the ideas here is, one of the things that's really popular right now is this idea of looping.

• 17:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  And then providing a council to then help oversee your health. Say, I want you to create a council that includes Dr. Darshan Shah, that includes Mark Hyman, that includes whomever, right? And now I want you to then run, run my plan that you, to improve my resting heart rate through them. Have them review it. Then, then once you do that, look at your answer, give me, give me back the answer. But then provide me with, if you're gonna quote certain sources, if you're gonna quote certain areas, show me those sources. So asking to show the sources so you know it doesn't hallucinate. Or if it does, at least you can have at least a 95% chance of really making sure it's a great answer. But then you can also click on seeing exactly the source it's pulling from.

• 18:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  So, so that's really the key. And if you can just master that, that's the majority of what you have to learn.

• 18:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, absolutely. I think for everyone out there listening, just having, even for tasks outside of your health, having this prompt structure on a little post-it next to your computer is a game changer. Because it really does get you answers that you could never get before. And so I think another step that I do sometimes as well is I then take the answer that chat GPT gave me and I put into Claude and I ask Claude, what do you think about this?

• 18:31Speaker 01

  What do you think about this?

• 18:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Exactly.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's the same concept.

• 18:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  The same thing, right?

• 18:34Speaker 01

  Same, yeah, I'll be honest with you. I, people ask me all the time, chat GPT or Claude or whatever, I, I've been doing a lot more with Claude. I just find, I've been finding Claude to be a, a lot better solution recently. But, you know, these things are just gonna keep leapfrogging each other for a while and stuff like that.

• 18:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  This episode was brought to you by Nex Health, a health optimization and longevity clinic located in Los Angeles, Manhattan, and soon to be opening in Montecito, Nashville, Miami, and many other cities in the United States and Canada. Nex Health is the Apple Store of wellness, where you can optimize your health span and lifespan using cutting-edge technology. I actually founded Nex Health eight years ago to give my patients a place to go get extensive biomarker testing done and provide them with all the tools that I use to get my health in order. The longevity circuit in Nex Health using hyperbaric oxygen, sauna, cryotherapy, and LED light is a game changer. In addition, the doctors at Nex Health measure thousands of biomarkers and put into place

• 19:36Dr. Darshan Shah?

  a longevity optimization plan using advanced tools like ozone, plasma exchange, and peptides. Go to www.nex.health to check it out.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  So I have a question for you.

• 19:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  So one of the opportunities that AI brings to the table is the fact that you hear this story about, oh, we're going to cure all kinds of diseases in the future. When you hear that, A, do you believe it? And why do you believe it?

• 20:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. To answer that question, and the risk is sounding overly optimistic, but I truly do believe that we are at a pivotal moment in the industry right now, that there's a lot of things coming together to solve disease in general. Number one is a deeper understanding of our biology at a cellular level. Number two is the mass amount of data that we're getting from sensors and from blood work, metabolomics, genetics, et cetera. And lastly, is the ability to apply AI to mass amounts of data and also create new solutions to problems that we haven't been able to solve yet, right? And so when I look at disease in general, there's chronic diseases, which is that second bucket that I talked about earlier, which are the top 10 reasons people die, right?

• 20:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Heart attack, cancers, diabetes. These are things that Alzheimer's disease, these are why people die when they're of old age. But there's another bucket of diseases, such as genetic diseases or problems that people need to take, go to the hospital for, like you mentioned, that you went for a gallbladder attack and had a gallbladder burst as well. And so I think for both categories, we're going to have better solutions now with AI. Just in general, from synthesizing the information and doing some of the things that we talked about, like having doctors talking to each other better, AI synthesizing all the information while you're in the acute care setting, more people are going to live through acute care problems than ever before. With chronic disease, I think the real benefit of AI there

• 21:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  comes from people using AI to manage their own health with the data that they have. So really becoming the CEO of their own health, understanding what their data means, and not waiting until their once-a-year doctor appointment, that's 15 or 20 minutes long, to get answers. Getting answers years and decades before they would have gotten them from the traditional way medicine does things, right? And that really involves like getting your blood test done, putting it into AI, using these prompts and say, just give me a general sense of how my health is. What do I need to work on? What do I need to improve? Where do you see the biggest opportunities for me? And I think that can be a game changer for people. And the more data they have, like you mentioned, connecting your Apple Health to your LLM is a game changer. Now it has a lot more data.

• 22:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It can see that because you're not sleeping, it is affecting your metabolic health, right? And this is a leap that most people never get in their entire lives until AI can give it to them, right? And so these are things that I think are going to make a major, major leapfrog forward in healthcare in general and people's overall health. Now, there's a whole other kind of bucket of solutions that's going to happen. And we could talk about this in depth, which is AI drug discovery, utilizing AI to create new proteins as well, and new peptides as well that we can use in our bodies. Because we've only scratched the surface. Even, you know, we've had tremendous progress in medicine over the last 100 years.

• 23:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  We've just scratched the surface of what's underlying there that we can do.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  So you've got folks like Ray Kurzweil and some of these folks, right?

• 23:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Ray Kurzweil, who wrote the...

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Who wrote a foreword in the book.

• 23:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  He talks about human longevity escape velocity.

• 23:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  By 2030, 2031. What does he mean by that? When he talks about escape velocity for longevity?

• 23:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, it's a theoretical concept where every year that we are alive as humans, we add another year to our lifespan, okay? Just statistically, if you look at the average age that humans die right now, you know, men and women are different. It's somewhere between 70, 80 years old. We will be able to, starting 2035, get to a point where every year moving forward from there, add another year of average human lifespan, right? So he's not saying that we're going to be able to live 121, 122, 123, 124. He's saying bringing that average up from the current average to every year ticking forward, right? And that's, that's a massive, massive statement, right?

• 24:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And if you think about it, the reasons people die, if you look at the CDC's top 10 causes of death, are all mostly chronic in nature. If we can fix those things and you don't die of chronic disease anymore, that's a major leap forward, right? People are going to have longer health spans, which then add to their lifespan. But the second piece of this now is understanding our biological reasons for aging and using AI to affect those. So if you're familiar, probably Cell Magazine wrote an article, I think back in 2012, and then they revised it in 2020, about the biological reasons that people age, right? And we know what happens inside of a cell that makes us older. How do we affect that? That's what we're going to figure out using AI.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I mean, I've been reading like, Google is like really leading, like creating new proteins, their alpha fold product, their med gemini solution. I mean, we're going to get to the point, and correct me if I'm wrong, where we're going to be able to pretty much be able to program cells.

• 25:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  Right? And in fact, before we walked in here, I was mentioning to you that I just read an article this morning about how scientists in Japan have discovered the, what they call the laziness cell, right? Right, where they can, where they can kind of turn it off and, you know, help, oh, sorry, the motivation, the motivation cell, where they can literally turn it on or turn it off, right? And that's crazy to me, right? That they can identify a cell or a protein that, oh, are you not, are you feeling tired? You're not feeling motivated, like what's happening to you mentally? Oh, well, let's do this. Or maybe you need to get a limit, get a shot or whatever, right? To help you kind of do that. So to me, it's just so exciting to see with this going. You're right, this is like tip of the iceberg stuff.

• 25:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. And what I'm more excited about too is like, you know, obviously, there's a lot of talk about lifespan and living forever and, you know, living to be 200 or 150. That really doesn't excite me. What really excites me more at this moment in time is the amount of suffering that's going to go away on this planet. You know, people are suffering with Alzheimer's, or they have a parent or a grandparent that has Alzheimer's. And the entire family is so affected, just frailty in general, right? When, when we get old, a lot of us become a burden to our family and society in general. And that doesn't need to happen anymore. Like, we already have this technology. I just think AI will be able to accelerate the coaching that we need to make, make sure that we stay on the program, right? But also create new solutions as well.

• 26:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So I think, I think it's going to be a society or a civilization in the next 50 years that has a lot less suffering and therefore is also a lot more productive.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, to build, to build on that.

• 26:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  I mean, you know, the number one cause of emergency room visits is car accidents.

• 26:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  So let's, let's just think about AI, not from a pure biological medical perspective. Think about the fact that in the future, in the next 10 years, we're all going to be in smart cars. Not necessarily electric cars, but smart car. We already have smart car features, right? Lane departure warning or whatever, right? Some, if you have a Tesla, you might have self-driving or a Waymo. You might go in a Waymo. But the point of it is that over time, our cars are going to become robot on wheels. And when that happens, all the cars are going to be talking to each other, all designed to do one thing, which is what? Reduce car accidents. And if the number one cause of emergency room visits is car accidents, imagine the domino effect that could have in emergency rooms. Now you don't have to wait for three hours to see somebody because now they don't have to have extra beds before in case, or in the trauma center waiting for, for a car accident patient.

• 27:35Speaker 01

  You know, think about insurance rates. Think about people are living longer because they're not dying in car accidents. And there are not that many broken bones anymore, right? So when you start thinking about the opportunity here, just beyond even just the biological side of, of our own individual health, just the overall impact it could have to us as a society. It's just massive.

• 27:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  Just huge. And that's what gets me excited. I mean, I think the thing that gets me so frustrated is, do you hear some of these ding-dongs out there talking about, oh, all your jobs are going to go away, or whatever it might be? And, you know, it's like, this has been going on now for three years. And sure, there might be some job loss happening, for example, in Silicon Valley, but I'm not seeing job loss anywhere else. If people are getting more efficient and people are seeing these as tools and it's all about how you use it as a tool. I mean, it's like, what was life like before we had PowerPoint, right? It's like, how do we get more efficient? So, so when you start to think, when we start to think about that, and we talked about this in the book, right? Which is all these opportunities that are going to be coming down the road and just arming us with this information, living longer. And, but I think to your point that you, you made to me, it's not, not, no, it's about living longer.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  It's about living smarter and, and having your faculties as you live longer.

• 28:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, absolutely. I loved your example that you gave earlier about your friend that called you and used AI as a therapist and he prompted it to be a therapist. And, you know, I look at mental health and the just severe, severe lack of access. And I'm waiting and hoping for a study that could show that an AI therapist that's responsibly built could be a solution to this lack of access, right? There just are not enough therapists or mental health professionals in the world to take care of everyone that needs it. And on the top 10 causes of death before old age, suicide is, is really up there actually in younger individuals as well. Accidents and suicides are a big factor, right? And so, and also homicides, which you could argue,

• 29:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  like a lot of those are also due to mental health crises and issues as well. So I, like you said, like I think societal level implications are going to occur here. Emptying out emergency rooms, I think unburdening the medical system as well from chronic disease, from acute care emergencies, et cetera. And it's going to be a completely different landscape.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, look, I mean, I'll be the first one to stand up and admit, look, I, I was one of those people where, you know, I thought it was odd to go see a therapist.

• 29:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  But guess what? I decided to go see a therapist. And the therapist, along with AI, it's not like I had any, I was not having a mental health crisis. I just, I just wanted to find out how I can, because I'm so busy and just like you, right? I just felt so overwhelmed and so burnt out all the time. It's like, how do I do this so I can be a better husband? How I can be a better father? How I can be a better leader? And so I can, I can talk to my therapist about this. I can then, I have my ChatGPT therapist or my Claude therapist, and I can compare notes, share notes. And anytime I feel like, hey, I feel overwhelmed or I feel like there's an opportunity, I feel like that, I use it. I say, hey, how do I do this? How do I solve this problem?

• 30:43Speaker 01

  How do I, you know, how do I communicate better with, with folks? Or whatever the case might be. So to me, it's been a win. To me, it's a game changer. It's a win. So it's, again, it's not about one or the other. Like, I think part of the problem we have in society right now is you could only, you have to choose one or the other. Like, there's no more middle ground. It's like, well, you have to be right or you have to be left. You can't be in the middle. You have to, no, you have to drive, you have to have this or that. No, I want to be in the middle. Like, I want to be able to say, hey, how do I take the best of both worlds to provide a best solution for myself and those around me?

• 31:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  And that's how I'm now using it as well.

• 31:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. So what you're saying is you are still using the traditional modalities available to you, but you're supplementing with AI and you're getting the best of both worlds put together.

• 31:32Speaker 01

  I'll give you an example. So, you know, full disclosure, I use Next, I go to Next Health all the time.

• 31:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Right? And you know that, I'm a big fan.

• 31:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  And I, Max, the general manager of Fashion Island, Asia, who's our nurse practitioner over in the location of Fashion Island, she's great. But they'll do the blood work, they'll get the feedback. I'll take the blood work.

• 31:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  And I'll have AI analyze each piece. I'll have it say, oh, what foods are optimized for my blood work? So I will go to the grocery store and where I'll take a picture and say, oh, you know, part of the problem in the grocery store right now, everything's got protein in it. Like, I was walking down, you'll love this. I was walking down the grocery aisle the other day and they had Pop-Tarts with protein.

• 32:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I know, I saw that.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  It's horrible. It's crazy, right?

• 32:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  They add the word protein to it.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, they add the word protein to it, it's great. But the, the point of it is that, so I can't remember where I was looking for it, but I think it was like, whatever, like a barbecue sauce. You can literally go in, there's like 50 different barbecue sauces to choose from. Well, take your phone, snap a picture of the barbecue sauce section, put it in ChatGPT or Claude or whatever you want to do it and say, hey, what's the healthiest? What's just the lowest sugar, the lowest sodium, the best tasting? It'll stack rank it for you, right? So those small little tweaks, you go to a restaurant. I went, I took a couple of my guys out to dinner the other night, right? We went to Mastro's. I remember taking a picture of the menu, saying, all right, which, which is the best optimal steak with lean fat? And how should I ask them to cook it for me? And it'll tell me, boom. But it's like, so again, the, once folks start realizing

• 33:01Speaker 01

  that we can use this on all aspects of our lives, just small little things, man, that's, it's such a huge win. I mean, I know folks who are taking, who are taking pictures of their receipts of things they buy and they'll upload it and they'll say, oh, why? This is what I bought. Could I have done this more efficiently? Or, hey, here's, here are the things, you know, instead of taking a picture of their entire shopping cart, they'll take a picture of the receipt, say, oh, give me seven meals I can make based off of everything that's on the food I just purchased, healthy. And how do I do that? And so, so it's just, it's just, again, arming us with information, which is critical.

• 33:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You could take a picture of your refrigerator and your pantry and say, create me a healthy recipe for my family of four tonight. And it'll, it'll do its best and it'll get it pretty, give you some options that you never thought.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, like, we start the book about the story of, hey, it's like, you know, I remember like using Google, right? And I don't want to bag on WebMD or anything or Google, but, you know, like anytime you put in Google before AI, oh, I have a little mole on my shoulder. It takes you to a different sources. And ultimately, the source says, you're gonna die, right? Ultimately, if you go far enough down the road, right? You go deep up, you might die, right? Because they have to cover all bases. But we talked about how now you can take a picture of that mole and put it in the ChatGPT and say, what is this? Oh, you know, here's what it might be. Check, we want to check for melanoma. Here's the sources. This is what you want to show your doctors. We need to talk about, here are the four questions to ask your doctor about this. We literally start the book that way, where, you know,

• 34:33Speaker 01

  it arms you with information and it moves away from you focusing on search to focusing on answers.

• 34:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  And that's ultimately what the book is really all about, is how this new health OS is going to be all about providing you answers.

• 34:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And I ask a lot of doctors that I know, how do you feel about your patients using AI and coming into you armed with like all this information from AI? And I was surprised that a lot of doctors actually love it because the patients are now much more educated. The doctors can start at a different level of conversations. So, you know, the, instead of talking about like abdominal pain in general and what can cause it, the patient's like, could it be my gallbladder? Yes, it could be your gallbladder because of the symptoms that you're having. The patient asks, like, what are the blood tests? Then here are some of the blood tests I was recommended. Bilirubin, AST, ALT. The doctor will be like, yep, we're gonna order those. And so the conversations are more efficient. The patients are more educated. So the physician feels that they can give even more information

• 35:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  and you get to the solution a lot faster. And so I think it is like, to your point, a perfect combination of using AI and using traditional medicine together and just accelerating care journey, you know?

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. I mean, and then when you factor in the fact that you now have a tool that helps you analyze, what are the right foods? What are the right, what are, what are sensitivities you might have based on your blood work? You start adding all those things together. Think about it, if you're a parent, right? I remember growing up as a kid, right? Like, you know, my mom, it's like, okay, well, she's raising three kids and doesn't have technology and there was no Google back in the seventies in elementary school, right? So it was like, oh, well, we're gonna put Oreo cookies as a snack and, you know, whatever, whatever the case might be. And so there's nothing wrong with Oreo cookies. Have everything in moderation. But now as a parent, you know, we can start saying, hey, is, is your child not motivated? Is your child having a hard time sleeping at night? Well, let's take a look at some of the foods that he or she are eating.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  And maybe that might affect the way, you know, the, the way their mind is working, you know, the way, the way they should be able to interact with society, you know, what all, all these different types of opportunities are. So it's, to me, it's just crazy, the opportunity here and how it's going to change the world. I mean, I mean, if we think about what I said earlier, that this is, this is not, when people talk about AI being the internet, it's not the internet. It's literally electricity. It's gonna be everywhere. It's gonna be in every, everywhere and in everything over time. And, you know, that's gonna be, it's gonna be a challenge. There's gonna be a lot of challenges out there because of that. And, you know, change is hard, you know? But there's also gonna be societal change, you know? There's also, you know, if all of a sudden, you know,

• 37:10Speaker 01

  let me ask you a question, like, what's the average lifespan right now here?

• 37:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I think it's 78, on the average.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Well, if all of a sudden the average lifetime just jumps to, over the next 20 years, maybe to 88 or 92, and we're living longer, but our societal norms say retire when you're 65, then what happens? Like, this kind of says too early? Like, how do you find satisfaction? Does a retirement age jump from 65 to 75, for example? So I just, there's so many big questions that are gonna have to be answered out there that, you know, above our pay grade. But those are some of the things I started to think about and of that. And I'm just really excited that, that I was able to work with you on this book because it was, it's awesome. It's a great read. It's a really great read.

• 37:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, I think, you know, we really sat down and brainstormed all the different things that are considerations at this moment in time and how people should be thinking through it. And I, you know, a lot of what I wrote about was informed by my patients that asked me all these questions. You know, one of the things that I see that we wrote about in the book as well is this whole movement now for people wearing wearable devices to collect their data, right? And so a lot of people, they feel very uncomfortable with having that data because it even gives them more anxiety, right? Not you, obviously, you have, you have three, three different data sources on your body right now. But what I, another thing I really love about AI is you don't need to be looking at your data. You can just be collecting it and the AI will look at it and interpret it in the background for you. So you don't have to worry about like, what was your sleep score? What is my HRV right now?

• 38:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Because you can choose to ask the AI model that you're using that is now connected to your device when you want to. How am I sleeping? What has been affecting my sleep from, from what you're seeing in my day to day habits? And I think that eliminates that data anxiety for a lot of people because they don't have to actually be looking at the data themselves. And so my message to everybody is, this is another reason to get a device that you can use to monitor your data because it's really the collection that has implications right now, giving you advice, but also 10, 20 years from now, to have that much data on your body, we're gonna be able to draw conclusions from your old data that we would not be able to do without that data being collected.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, if anything, it's gonna say, hey, look, Rajiv, Darshan, if you continue on this path in the five years, don't be surprised if XYZ happens.

• 39:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 39:30Speaker 01

  Right? So start fixing it now. Because if you do, then you'll see this change instead, instead of this change.

• 39:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Right? So, I mean, but the challenge is, is gonna be, in my opinion, and I don't know what you think about this, is, look, I just got this.

• 39:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  The whoop band.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  The whoop band, I just got it. I wanted to test it, I want to try it. So I just got it a couple of days ago. I'm trying and testing it because I can't sleep with the Apple Watch.

• 39:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  It's just too bulky, too heavy. And so I also got the Hume band, which I haven't tried yet. So I got this, I'm trying, I'm testing this right now. Then I'll test the Hume band. And so that's why I'm wearing three different things. But the challenge is going to be, well, what if I have an Orion sleep bed? Or I have a Sleep Number bed? And now all of a sudden, I've got so much information coming in. There can be analysis paralysis. And then what happens if you have competing stuff? And, you know, so that's, that's where I think there's going to be this big opportunity for, you know, and I think, I think this is some of the stuff that you're doing here at Nex Health, where this information will come in and help really seep through and, and really help to, help, you know, non-medical folks like myself and others listening to say, oh yeah, well, this is what your sleep is really telling you.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  So right now you have three sources of sleep, your bed, your whoop band, maybe your Apple Watch, whatever it is, you might have two or three different sources. They're all gonna, hopefully all be kind of within each other just a little bit. But ultimately, you still need a quarterback to say, ah, this is what you need. Oh, you need cooler temperature, or you need, whatever it might be. So, right. So that's really, I think, going to be the big opportunity.

• 40:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, and you know, I think the data accuracy from wearables, it's still not there yet, but it's getting better all the time.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And the concordance of the data matching each other is really off a lot of times, you know, from different wearable devices. But I think a lot of what is really good about data collection from multiple devices is patterns, right? You can do pattern matching and see, you drank two glasses of wine before dinner tonight. What does that do to all of your wearables, right? Does it degrade your sleep universally in all three? It probably will, right? And so then we can say, the AI can then look at this data from the multiple sources and say, here's a pattern I see. Forget about which one is the most accurate, but the patterns all match, or they don't match. And this is what we want to know. And there's so many examples of that. My next book is going to be called N of One.

• 41:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And it talks a lot about this, is the main way that you can affect your own health is to know what's working for you and your body. And the only way to know that is by collecting the data and then doing these little mini experiments and seeing what really works or what doesn't work, right? It might not affect you to have a glass of green tea at night before bed, or it might make your sleep worse because of the caffeine, or it might make it better because of the, you know, the phytochemicals in it, right? And so we just don't know until, until we test and we do the, do the data collection. And so I think that AI really enables this new type of science in medicine called N of One. This is something I'm really bullish about, is really understanding your personal biology

• 42:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  and personalizing everything you do to affect your health in positive direction.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's brilliant. That's the absolute way to go. Like, a small example, so I have really high arches on my feet.

• 42:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  And really high, like, top 1% of high archers, right? But what I'll do is I will take a photo of an on-running shoe, and I'll upload it into AI and say, hey, which one of these is the best for high arches? Compare them to the Nikes, compare them to the Hoka. Which one is going to be better? I'll, I'll take a photo of the bottom of my arch and put it up there. And it'll, it'll analyze it for me real time and say, oh, well, you get the On Cloud Master 4, whatever it is, right? So we start thinking about, right? Just the opportunity, just, just mind-blowing, right? Just, you know, and so it's, it's all about, we have so much choice. How do we now take that?

• 43:19Speaker 01

  And how do we liberate ourselves by having, by putting some constraints around there? And by really saying, huh, we could actually liberate ourselves by having some limits? And AI can help us with that.

• 43:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  So your N of One concept is great.

• 43:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, I think, I think it's going to be, it was hard before AI, but AI makes it so much easier, so much simpler.

• 43:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

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• 44:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

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• 44:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So we've created an Nex Health dashboard where it takes all the inputs. It takes your inputs from your wearables, all the blood testing we do. You can even upload your testing that you've done elsewhere. We also take in your imaging results, so from Pernuvo and other imaging centers as well. We take your function lab data, for example, and just form in the background a, and I hate to use the word digital twin, I want to be very careful about that word, but basically, an AI model of everything in your body. And that way, we can just tell what interventions are going to affect what in what way. And so we're developing these predictive models using what's called cohort analysis, finding other people that have your same kind of set overall of big picture markers

• 45:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  and, and your demographic. And understanding like, how did one intervention affect that cohort? And since you're part of that cohort, making predictions about what will affect your health. And so we could tell you, like, for a, you know, a young male like yourself, being on a statin will have this much of an effect, right? And so I think AI truly, truly enables that in the background, even with smaller data sets compared to like, what might a pharmaceutical trial need to make a determination about what drugs are going to be helpful. So just the data that we have, we can do that kind of cohort analysis. And I think what you're going to see a lot of is so much more good research coming out because research now becomes so much more distributed.

• 46:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  There's so much, so many data reservoirs, right? Every practice has its own data reservoir, and research can be done on that data.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I mean, it's really, like we talked about, and I don't want to sound like a broken record, it's really, it is the tip of the iceberg. I mean, the, the tool you're talking about, I just started using, you know?

• 46:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, yes.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Health Nexus, we call it.

• 46:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, Health Nexus. And so, yeah, so I just, just got the information, right? So talking to Max in Asia, trying to figure that out. And, and now we're going to upload, because I had the Apple Watch before and that's not connected yet. So that's when I got this, and I'll get the Hume. We'll start uploading that information. But I think the most important thing to think about for me is, right now, and you were mentioning it, right? So healthcare was a one-to-many solution.

• 46:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  So all Asian Indian men should be on a statin.

• 46:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  Right?

• 46:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  Because of our genetics.

• 46:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Genetics, right?

• 46:59Speaker 01

  But maybe not all. Maybe everybody's a little bit different. I was born and raised here. My sons, who are now second generation, they might be a little bit different. So over time, I think what's going to happen is, is that this idea of healthcare being one-to-many becomes really one-to-one. And what's going to, in my view in medicine, what's going to happen is the bottleneck is going to become not enough doctors. Right? I'll give you an example. So when I got my, when I first got involved with AI, I think, you, you know the story, but I'll just say it here. So I had exited a AI company, CEO of a company. We were doing things in, in audio technology, and we were doing, doing machine learning algorithms. That company ended up selling to Sennheiser and all that, right? So I decided I want to learn more about AI.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  This was like 13 years ago. And I went to MIT and I got my certifications, AI in healthcare and AI in business. One of my professors, she was on the team that eventually reran, you've heard the story, right? The 30,000 breast cancer mammogram images, right? They reran the mammogram images, and they found 11 additional cases that the doctors had missed. And if you're those women in those families, are you angry or are you happy? You're kind of both, right? So I remember getting off the phone and calling my cousin. She's a radiologist in New York and Long Island. I was laughing at her, ah, you're going to be out of a job. Because, you know, when you think about it, right? Logic says, well, AI never sleeps. It's kind of like from Top Gun Maverick, right? Drone pilot, pilots are going to go away, there'll be drones, right?

• 48:25Speaker 01

  Because pilots don't sleep, they, I'm sorry, AI doesn't sleep, and AI doesn't go on vacation, and AI doesn't go to the bathroom, it's just, it's on, it's always on, it could just keep going. And I remember thinking to myself, wow, we're not going to need that many radiologists anymore. We're not going to need that many doctors anymore. And I think you and I even had this conversation. I remember having this conversation with you. And it's interesting, you know, we, you know what the research found? You know, the bottleneck shifted from the scanning of the image to the talking to the patients. And so those hospitals that were doing the AI, using AI to read the, the scans, found that they had to hire more radiologists. To talk to the patients.

• 49:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Because it was being processed so fast.

• 49:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm hmm.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  And so I just think when you start thinking about that, how now doctors can move from being reactive to proactive, that's and be being a partner in your healthcare. That's essentially what the core of the book says, and that's the message that you and I have hopefully provided to folks, and that's why it's called your new health OS, because we think the operating system here is not just, hey, just go to chat GPT and put your blood work and tell me what you got. It's about how your doctor becomes your partner and how your doctor can be proactive and be part of your team, along with you and your family and others, to really help manage your health and really help you live a longer, healthier, smarter, more active life.

• 49:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think what people don't realize is that the reason we have so many healthcare problems is there's a massive lack of access to physicians, right? And so the, and this is being, you know, patched up with having mid level providers, which thank God we have them, like nurse practitioners and physicians assistants and other types of, other types of providers that have kind of come into the fold, just because people just don't have access, right? So to your point.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  The, the doctors don't have time and there's not enough time to be proactive. So it is a very reactive system because people just have to wait until they have a real problem to see a doctor. But imagine if the time of doctors got freed up and they now had time to be more proactive and talk about things like supplementation and talk about diet. Diet is not a part of almost any, you know, primary care visit conversations right now because there's just not time, right? And so this opens up a lot more time for proactive healthcare, which then can, you know, the ball can be passed over to AI to manage it on a day to day basis and people just become healthier.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, I think about some of these remote towns that we have in the country, right? Where they don't have a lot of doctor access, or maybe some remote communities where hospitals are shutting down.

• 50:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  Well, I have, you know, well, that's where telehealth becomes so more and more people are taking advantage of telehealth opportunities and the five dollar copay for telehealth, right? That's fine, it becomes four to five bucks. And I have some of my employees, you know, I've got 88 employees roughly, and so they can use, some of them are using telehealth now to, to talk to folks and, you know, and so to me, it's going to be one where, you know, over time, the, the folks and the doctors of the future, the ones that really find a way to really find that balance.

• 51:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  They're, they're the ones who are going to be just the most highly successful.

• 51:36Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So I want to talk to you about a few things I've heard about in AI that's coming very soon that a lot of people might not know about, because I think it's also another way I think AI is going to really accelerate healthcare. One is the evolution of the science around what's called Yamanaka factors. So Yamanaka factors are four proteins that we know if you apply them to any cell, they can reverse the biology of that cell all the way down to a pluripotential stem cell, a stem cell that can basically turn into any organ out there. And this was actually something that was discovered by a Japanese scientist a couple of decades ago that he won a Nobel Prize for. And the problem was that there was no way to really control this kind of transformation of a regular cell, like I could take a skin cell or cheek cell from you and it turned

• 52:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  all the way back into a pluripotential stem cell. And recently, what they found using machine learning AI models is number one, this process can now be controllable and there's studies going on in David Sinclair's lab and in Harvard and many other studies happening right now about controlling this process to reverse the age of a cell and also to reverse damage to a cell so it becomes functional again. And they're doing this actually in humans that are blind, making their see again using these factors, which is mind blowing. And then there's another company called Retro Biosciences that was funded by OpenAI that is modifying these Yamanaka factors to achieve the same goals in the liver, in the heart, for example.

• 53:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And these are organs that, you know, you just can't grow a new one. You can't grow a new heart or new liver. That's why there's heart and liver transplantation. But now by being able to reverse cellular biology, using AI proteins that have been developed with the help of AI that take the Yamanaka factors and make this process controllable, we might be able to now create new cells for these organs that once they're damaged, they're like gone, right? And so there's a world in the future, if you kind of, you know, play this out, where if someone has liver failure, you're no longer doing liver transplant, you're just giving them Yamanaka cells to, the Yamanaka factors to regenerate the liver cells that are already there. Heart attacks, an IV dose of Yamanaka factors, the heart muscle comes back.

• 53:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Like, these are the kind of technologies that are happening right now that sound like science fiction, but are actually getting into human clinical trials because of the acceleration of artificial intelligence on this science.

• 54:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, look, I mean, if you went back and told a doctor in the late 1800s that you can do heart transplants or you can put in stents.

• 54:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  Or, you know.

• 54:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I don't even know what you're talking about.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  A balloon, angiogram, whatever it might be, they're going to think you're some voodoo magic.

• 54:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Crazy person, right? But now, look, this is just a function of time and energy and power. And so the, as, and not to get too technical here, but as Nvidia keeps developing these faster, higher end processors, as, as we start to solve the energy challenge that some of these things are producing now, as we, and I know there's a lot right now, for example, there's a lot, a lot of negative focus on data centers, and rightfully so in some cases, right? Because it's polluting the local environment, which can cause health challenges and different things and, you know, and people should be upset about these things. I think these companies should find better ways to deal with that. That's a whole different podcast, I think.

• 55:06Speaker 01

  But to go back to your point, though, you can't tell me anything that I won't believe because I absolutely hundred percent believe that in 30 years or 40 years or 50 years, maybe not us, I'll be 59 in next month. So, but maybe my, maybe, maybe my sons, Sean and Nick, or maybe my grandkids, God forbid something happens, boom, get a Yamanaka factor stem cell shot and you're good to go. I mean, I remember we saved Sean's cord blood.

• 55:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm hmm.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  Right? For stem cells. And so, you know, I did TPE at next time.

• 55:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Plastic change, yeah.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  Yep, therapeutic plastic exchange. That was wild. That was pretty cool. And I, that got supplemented with stem cells and exosomes. So the fact that you're, that you can, you are even saying this doesn't surprise me. And if anybody's listening to this, what Darshan is saying, do not discount this. I'm, I hundred percent agree. In the next 20 to 50 years, who's to say that you can't take a shot to get rid of heart plaque in your arteries? You can't tell me no, because if you told, if you said, if you, again, I go back to you, and forget about the 1800s, if you told, if you told a doctor in the 1920s, you know, during World War I, right? Or World War II even, look at all the, you know, that, hey, look at all the advancements we were going to have in medicine, they'd tell you, you're crazy. So same thing.

• 56:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, absolutely. Another thing I want to talk to you about is, and we write about this in the book as well, is the use of AI for robotics. You know, this is accelerating massively because there's massive profit incentive here to create humanoid robots that actually function as good or as well as humans, but even better than humans, right? And there's no place this is more important than in surgery. And I'm a surgeon and, you know, when I started doing surgery, there was no such thing that was called laparoscopic surgery. That means putting a camera inside of somebody and then using a tool to then operate on them through a tiny incision by using a camera.

• 57:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Laparoscopic surgery started when I was training in surgery. We were taking all gall bladders with it. Then it became colons and just got better and better and better. And the same, basically what it does is turn surgery into like a video game, right? Now, obviously, AI can play video games better than humans can play video games. So that same AI machine learning algorithms are being used for surgery. And I just read that the first surgery was done with no human intervention, using an AI laparoscopic robotic surgery model. And this is a massive game changer. Now, it was a very simple surgery that was done, but obviously we're just scratching the tip of the iceberg right now. This is accelerating on an exponential curve.

• 57:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So I used to be one of those people that thought even just five years ago, there's no way a robot's ever going to be able to do surgery. It's just too complicated. I've done some of the most complicated surgeries, but if you just break it down into its components and it's basically a video game and there's things that happen out of nowhere, like in a video game that you have to deal with, same thing happens in surgery and the AI can handle those things, those problems, then AI, why couldn't an AI do surgery, right?

• 58:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, look, a Waymo is a robot on wheels.

• 58:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  And there's Waymo's right outside this building. You know, when you fly in an airplane, the minute you take off, what does it probably do? Autopilot. You're in a robot airplane until they decide to land. Something happens to pilot, the autopilot can help take over, right? The beauty of the future of surgery is going to be the fact that doctors are human. And if they're doing a long surgery, they gotta go to the bathroom. Their hands get tired, their eyes can get watery, right? But this, but in partnership with the robot, it's going to help folks live longer. It's going to make those surgeries even more successful. It's going to help avoid, I mean, you know it. I mean, how many times you done surgery where, not you, have maybe accidentally hit something that you shouldn't have hit?

• 59:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Never happened to me.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  Never happened to you, right? So I think was intuitive, there's that company Intuitive Robotics, right?

• 59:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Intuitive.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're doing amazing things and creating amazing tools and amazing solutions. And so, you know, the fact that, and by the way, they did lacrosse, lacrosse optic on me, on my golf batter. But the fact that you could, if the best doctor in the world happens to be in Barcelona, and you're, you're on the operating table in New York, and you want the best, and you can afford the best, and you can get the best, what's the difference?

• 59:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm hmm.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  You know, if they're, you know, they're going to be, to your point, controlling it and doing their little thing and all that, and it's gonna, it's gonna be amazing. And so, and by the way, that's not to say they're not gonna be in the room with you. The nurse will be there, there'll be a backup doctor in the room in case something happens, something about whatever. So it's all about the fact that, again, coming down the future, it, it's going to be there. It's going to be popular, it's going to be standard. But more importantly, Darshan, you're, you're not going to have as many mistakes. You know, you're not, and humans make mistakes. You're not gonna have as many of them. Your recovery time is going to be a lot better, faster, right? You know, people are going to be living longer, right? There's another reason why people are going to be living longer.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  So people, you talked about how the Yamanaka factors are helping people see again. Well, guess what? There's gonna be little mini little devices in your ears that are gonna help you, people hear again. There's gonna be technology that you're, little technology, whether through nanobots or whatever it might be, helping people who can't walk, walk again, right? There's gonna be all kinds of different solutions out there, you know? And so, the, the world of the six, well, we grew up the six, six million dollar man, right? Yeah, so, but the six billion dollar man, right? And the bionic woman, right? So, I mean, that, that's, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised to, to see that. But yeah, you're definitely right. So robotic surgery is, I mean, we're, I mean, if this was a baseball game, it's like, I

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  mean, the first pitch has just been thrown.

• 1:01:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, I'm really proud and honored that you and I got to write this book together. This is awesome.

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  It was awesome.

• 1:01:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I think it's, I think one of the first book of its kind about how healthcare is going to completely change in this new world of AI that we're living in. And it's currently available on Amazon for preorder, and I can't wait to get this out there. It really is a primer on two things. Number one is how you can practically use AI in your personal health and wellness journey. And secondly, is what's coming in the future and how to think of everything happening. And, you know, I message to everybody that I always say this is, my whole job is to keep you alive and healthy long enough so you get to benefit from all of this. And so, let's just be extremely proactive, become the CEO of your own health, start collecting your data.

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  Partner with your doctor on this.

• 1:01:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Partner with your doctor on this, right? Become an N of one, and you can stay alive long enough to see what happens, because it's an exciting future.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, and not only can you stay alive long enough, you'll stay along, you'll, you'll stay long, live longer with your faculties in place.

• 1:02:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  Which is really exciting.

• 1:02:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, yeah. Well, thank you, Rajiv, for joining me.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Thank you, my friend. Thank you for being on this journey, it's awesome.

• 1:02:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, yes, it's such an honor to be with you here, and I can't wait to have people read this book and for the next one.

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's, it releases first week in January.

• 1:02:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  First week in January, everywhere the books are sold, you'll be able to find it.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  Yep, hopefully all over the place. So please, it's available for preorder, go check it out.

• 1:02:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep, thank you. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Please remember to subscribe if you liked this episode, and give us a good review and share a link with your friends. It really helps to support all of our efforts. I also want to remind you that the information shared on this podcast is for educational purposes only, and is not intended to replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please consult with your healthcare provider or physician before making any decisions or taking any action based on what you hear today, especially if you have any underlying health conditions or on any medications. Your doctor knows your personal health situation the best, and it's always important to seek their guidance.