S2E32: "Nice Mind Reading!" | Talk Tracks

For years, Betsy Flores searched for ways to better understand her daughter, Cianna. Along the way, she encountered moments that seemed impossible to explain - thoughts shared without words, uncanny knowing, and experiences that hinted at a deeper connection. Joined by autism advocate Manisha Lad, Betsy reflects on the beginning of her daughter’s spelling journey and the hope it has brought to their family. Together they discuss telepathy, communication, presumed competence, and the patience required to help non-speaking individuals express their thoughts. This is a conversation about trusting your child, letting go of expectations, and finding light when the path forward feels uncertain. ________________ Join The Telepathy Tapes Backstage Pass to get ad-free episodes, never-before-heard interviews, behind-the-scenes documentary footage, and access to our private Discord community. This is your invitation to come closer. To help shape what’s next. To be more than a listener… to be a co-creator of this paradigm shift. So if you’ve felt moved, if you’ve felt seen, if you’ve felt the call—subscribe today and join us: https://thetelepathytapes.com/ See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ky Dickens?

  Hi, everyone, and welcome back to The Talk Tracks. Today, we have two very special guests. Manisha Ladd, who you might remember from season one, where you met her son, Akil. And now she has started a center, the Akil Autism Foundation Sensory Pathways Center. And in her journey, she met Betsy, who has an 11-year-old daughter, Sienna, and is just starting her spelling journey. And in this beginning of the spelling journey, also discovered that she was telepathic, kind of confirming some of your prior experiences. And I think it's going to be a really beautiful, true conversation about fear and perseverance and love beyond anything else. So, thank you both for joining us.

• 0:44Ky Dickens?

  Hi, everyone. I'm Kai Dickens, and welcome to The Talk Tracks, brought to you weekly from TTT Media. In this series, we explore the threads that weave together our understanding of reality, science, spirituality, consciousness, and, yes, even unexplained phenomena like psi abilities. We examine the mysteries that sit just beyond the edge of what science can currently explain alongside researchers, thinkers, families, and experiencers. If you haven't yet listened to The Telepathy Tapes, I encourage you to start there. It lays the foundation for everything that we'll be exploring, because every era has ideas once dismissed as impossible until someone was willing to investigate them seriously. And on this show, we do just that.

• 1:27Ky Dickens?

  If you want to see our incredible guests in person, we have a video version of this episode on The Telepathy Tapes YouTube page.

• 1:35Speaker 01

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• 2:06Ky Dickens?

  So why don't we first start by just having you each introduce yourselves?

• 2:11Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:12Ky Dickens?

  And who your children are.

• 2:13Speaker 02

  Sure. So my name is Manisha Lad and our only son Akhil Lad is now 25 years old. And he has transformed me since his diagnosis of autism, when we were not given much of a hope. So till 11 years, he was completely non-verbal, unexpressive. He broke his silence through a very controversial method. And during that time, we were introduced about the mind and body disconnect and reflexes.

• 2:45Speaker 03

  My name is Betsy Flores. I'm from New Jersey also. I have a daughter named Sienna, who's 11 years old. We started the spelling thing when she was about maybe eight or nine. And she's still not open with me. She's kind of very early on in her journey because I haven't been able to take her for consistent lessons, but now I'm trying to learn. So hopefully she'll be open with me soon.

• 3:09Ky Dickens?

  And then I want to talk about how you met. But first, you know, for people who might remember you from season one, Manisha was the first family I met in America that was both spelling really proficiently. Akhil can spell on an iPad. No one needs to touch or hold anything. He can just go. And you opened a center to help other individuals who have non-speaking or praxic children, which I understand is how you met. And at the center, you work on like reflexes and the rapid prompting method of spelling to communicate.

• 3:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:43Ky Dickens?

  And other physical therapies and such.

• 3:45Speaker 02

  Adaptive fitness. We have a lot of digital innovation tools where parents get interactive metronome, where we know how to work on the hemispheres and more on the subconscious mind. And we also have a small hydroponic unit where the kids learn to do the gardening with the hydroponic.

• 4:03Ky Dickens?

  What's the center's called?

• 4:04Speaker 02

  Akhil Autism Foundation, the Sensory Pathway Center.

• 4:07Ky Dickens?

  The Sensory Pathway.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. And our program name is called the Neurosensory Foundation Program. But before starting a center, when Akhil was seven years old, we started a foundation, Akhil Autism Foundation. And our whole goal was to help families back in India. So we trained a doctor in India, we raised some funds, we trained a doctor in India. And that's how we got the family started on the first biomedical treatment. And when at the age of eleven, when Akhil broke his silence uh through iPad. And that time Akhil made a very powerful statement by typing that I cannot see my body in my mind. And then we found that Akhil understood everything inside. And he was literally um uh talking from inside to us.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  He had no idea that he had a body. What he understood that oh have hands and fingers and they move. He had a perception that I see visually, I hear and I learn. It's in mind.

• 5:07Ky Dickens?

  Hmm.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  Other person has to also open his mind, that was his operating system. So he one day told me, typed with me and said, I can't help it, I have to read people's mind.

• 5:18Ky Dickens?

  So he told you he can't help it, he has to read minds, why did he say that?

• 5:22Speaker 02

  Um because that was his operating system, that was the way he thought that because it was happen happening naturally for him.

• 5:29Ky Dickens?

  Yeah.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  It's not, he doesn't have to make an attempt. And that's why he would say that I am very fearless of using my resources.

• 5:38Ky Dickens?

  And what does he mean by his resources?

• 5:39Speaker 02

  Like being very intuitive.

• 5:41Ky Dickens?

  Intuitive?

• 5:42Speaker 02

  Yes, intuitive and telepathy, you can see is on the similar, similar lines.

• 5:46Ky Dickens?

  Yeah.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  So while he would type with me before he would uh like I would give him a whole, his as if his thoughts were coming into my mind.

• 5:54Ky Dickens?

  So his thoughts would enter your mind too?

• 5:55Speaker 02

  Yes, his thoughts would come into my mind, that was sure.

• 6:00Ky Dickens?

  How could you tell they weren't your thoughts?

• 6:02Speaker 02

  Because he would tell me, your answer and my answer is same, but this is my answer.

• 6:07Ky Dickens?

  It's so interesting.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Yes, and some of the thoughts, whether he would say like I cannot see my body in my mind. Or if I ask him a basic question of even uh studying about living things, what is living thing, what is non living thing, we teach. And you ask questions like why cell is living? And his answer was because the energy in the cell is living, the cell is living. I wouldn't give such answers. So his answers were very, very, very intellect.

• 6:33Ky Dickens?

  Very intellectual and very smart and something and you knew it wasn't your.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I would never say I cannot see my body in my mind. Why would I even that bake up?

• 6:44Ky Dickens?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:45Speaker 03

  So he typed that or you saw those thoughts in your head?

• 6:47Speaker 02

  No, it goes with very flow. Once you give your mind, it's like, like a blackboard. I'm going to use your mind. And you are, your body is going to be a vehicle for me. So you and me are very in tuned.

• 6:59Ky Dickens?

  So it's almost like a keel, you said, like, it was like a fresh blackboard in your head and he almost like used the interface of your body.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  Yes, and my mind too.

• 7:08Ky Dickens?

  I just want you to share the bus story because I love that story and I don't think I put, it's definitely not in the film and I'm not even sure if it was in season one, but it impacted me when you first told me the story about how when he was little, he would get mad at the bus.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:22Ky Dickens?

  So tell that story.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  So he would go on the bus and the driver is telling him hi. Good morning, Akhil. And Akhil not greeting. And he would ask him again, Akhil, good morning, Akhil. And he would not answer. So and he would get upset. And then he would say, why I have to, just why they keep on asking me the same question? When I already said hi. I said, how did you say hi? I said, I answered in my mind.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  And one day he had a major meltdown in the bus and I asked him, Akhil, why, what happened? And he said that, um, teach people how to read my mind.

• 7:59Ky Dickens?

  Yeah, because he was talking to the kids too, right? Telling them to keep it down. I remember you saying and

• 8:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:04Ky Dickens?

  They wouldn't listen to him. And he said, because I'm talking to them, they're not listening.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, we were saying, he would come in like, why you're not listening. I said, how did you say? Because I'm telling in my mind and you're not listening from my mind. So he was under that big perception. And he would say, my mind is very good. I have to tell my mind what to do. And when he had a meltdown, then he started telling that I should not go into the other mind. Because he says, I want to do it, but my other mind is not letting me do. As if there are two minds inside.

• 8:33Ky Dickens?

  So interesting.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  And now he doesn't talk over the mind at all because he has a lot of control over his body.

• 8:40Ky Dickens?

  So the more the control came, the less he had to rely on.

• 8:43Speaker 02

  Yes, and that's where the more you work on the children's body, uh, they get the control. And that's exactly all the modalities which we did with Akil. It's what we do at the center.

• 8:53Ky Dickens?

  Great. Okay, so Betsy, you obviously met Manisha through the center, but tell us a little bit about your story, when you decided to bring your daughter to the center and why?

• 9:04Speaker 03

  So we had been, we had been doing RPM well. I mean, she has a great practitioner. But she's an hour away and she was only available every other uh, Sunday, like so it was twice a month. Which I felt like we needed more, but there was nothing in my area, like in central New Jersey where I could go. And so I learned that Manisha was doing uh, uh, RPM. And my daughter, she gave me some clues that she could read my mind and but it wasn't always consistent. There were just some little episodes that I'm like, hmm.

• 9:36Ky Dickens?

  What's an example?

• 9:37Speaker 03

  When she was a baby and I would do to fix her hair and I would be standing behind her. For some, and then the minute I would put the ponytail thing in my mouth to like, she would turn around and tell me to take it out of my mouth. And I'm like, how does she, how does she see me? I'm standing behind her and I would try different ways. I'm like, maybe I'm making a noise. And she would do it every single time. The minute I put her, she would turn around and tell me to take it out. Um, another example is I remember waking up one day and just, I wanted to make myself eggs. Which is rare for me. I don't really cook myself eggs. Um, and my daughter doesn't like eggs. But I come out there and make myself eggs today. So I'm thinking all this in my head and I go downstairs. I take the pan out and she says, I don't want any eggs. And I'm like, how did you know it was gonna be eggs? It was just things like that.

• 10:21Speaker 03

  Um, another time she was taking a bath and I was, she was playing with this bucket and I, I was thinking to myself, I can't believe that's the same bucket. That they gave me at the hospital when she was born. And she put the bucket over her face and I said, that's not a mask. And she said, that's for the hospital. Now, if you know kids with autism, they, you know, at least my daughter's not completely nonverbal. She has a language, but it's mostly all scripts and the same thing, you know, saying the same things over and over again. So for her to say hospital was unusual. And it just was at the exact time that I was thinking about it in my mind. So she gave me those snippets. And I remember telling somebody, I think she's reading my mind. And then when I took my daughter to Manisha the first time, I wasn't expecting anything.

• 11:02Speaker 03

  I just wanted the spelling. But Manisha immediately connected with her, immediately. And so I don't know why, one of the questions I have is just like, why doesn't she connect with me that way? Like, I know that she's not reading my mind all the time. And I wonder if it's because she hasn't developed it that much yet, or maybe it's because she's turning it off. And then, but when she connected with Manisha that quickly, I said, well, then maybe it's me. Maybe I'm somehow don't have the, I'm not open. Manisha should just be open. I'm like, how do I do that? I don't know how to do it.

• 11:36Ky Dickens?

  We have talked about this so many times on the show that so often, I think for children, it's easier to connect with a teacher, or a coach, or a counselor than a parent. And I give this example, you know, which I think is true, right? I think for parents, we have so much emotional stock and pressure that we put on our own kid. Like, I'll be watching my six year old in a basketball game. It doesn't bother me if any other kid is running their own way, or not running fast enough, or not doing this. But the second my son stops, I'm like, what is he doing? Why is he, you know, and like, this end of the world that he's not doing it. But for every other kid out there, it's like, whatever, that's so cute. And I think we, parents do that, right? We put so much on our children.

• 12:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. But it's not just the spelling, even the telepathy. Like, I've tried to test her since all this happened. I've tried to test her to see if she's reading my mind. And she's, she's not, most of the time. I feel like she's not. You know, I don't know. It just might, I just don't think so. So I wonder like, what is it about Manisha?

• 12:31Ky Dickens?

  You tell, tell me that what happened when the first time you all met. So you brought in Siana?

• 12:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:35Ky Dickens?

  And to learn to spell or to get?

• 12:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:37Ky Dickens?

  Cause she can, so she's minimally verbal.

• 12:39Speaker 03

  It's just mostly scripting. Uh, she's not conversational. She has functional language. She can say, I need this or I need that, but she's not conversational. It's mostly scripting thing, you know, lines from shows that she repeats over and over again.

• 12:50Ky Dickens?

  So for someone like that who's minimally verbal or unreliably verbal, spelling can really help still, like spelling to communicate can really bring out.

• 12:56Speaker 03

  Cause she can't, she can't say complex thoughts at all.

• 12:59Ky Dickens?

  Okay.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  No. I mean, if I asked her, what did you do in school today? She can't tell me. So.

• 13:03Ky Dickens?

  So you were going to help with spelling. And then tell me what happened next, because obviously some sort of telepathy happened.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. See, whenever anybody walks into our center, it's very pure RPM based. We never say telepathic or anything or anything. We know that if a child is spelling, uh, we know when they are reading our mind and when they are not reading our mind.

• 13:26Ky Dickens?

  How can you tell?

• 13:28Speaker 02

  Okay. So if I read something and the answer, uh, I have in my mind, the child starts answering that, then we completely know. Or sometimes they give thoughts that I connect from this quote to that, some of the thoughts which they type, which is not in our mind. So it happens very naturally. So like your example of the bike is a perfect example.

• 13:52Ky Dickens?

  Which example?

• 13:53Speaker 02

  Like yours riding the bike and then you hold and then you leave.

• 13:57Ky Dickens?

  Yeah.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  And so they're getting the whole control. So it's like, it's like you hold the hand and then you start fading your hand and you are just standing in the back. It's like an energy. Everything is energy. So somebody had explained me for Akil's perspective that when Akil walks into an environment outside the house, he tries to matches your energy with the other person's energy. And if that is not matching, he shuts down. So if you are open, he will be open. So with Siana, when she came in, I had no intention of doing any telepathy or anything or anything. But I was reading her a story and she was answering. And in the between, she was talking something, not right now, you know, not right now. Okay.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  This time. So, you know, I, I could see it's a part of a hill. I could, I could, I could sense it.

• 14:52Ky Dickens?

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• 15:37Ky Dickens?

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• 16:01Speaker 01

  Network freedom and flexibility. That's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 16:38Ky Dickens?

  Okay, explain this a little bit more. So the first time you met Siana, she sits down next to you.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:44Ky Dickens?

  She's reading a story or you're reading?

• 16:46Speaker 02

  I was reading a story.

• 16:47Ky Dickens?

  And you were gonna ask her like yes and no answers?

• 16:49Speaker 02

  No, basically proper question and answers. Okay. And then suddenly she makes a statement out of the blue. Nice mind reading.

• 16:56Ky Dickens?

  She writes to you out of the blue, nice mind reading. So, okay, so you start working with Siana. So what happens next? Like, did you bring this up to Betsy or did you start?

• 17:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Right, I mean, in our session finished, I told Betsy she's completely telepathic.

• 17:12Ky Dickens?

  Tell me about the test y'all did.

• 17:13Speaker 03

  So there's a table, there was a table. Sienna's sitting across from me. Uh, Manisha was sitting next to her. And Manisha would, I would, she gave me a book. I would pick, oh, any word. I tried to pick words that I didn't even know what they meant. And she would look at it. She would go over, hold the, and Sienna would just start typing the word. Just like that.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  See.

• 17:32Speaker 03

  And she just starts that. And we did it, we did it like four times.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  Four times.

• 17:35Speaker 03

  And she did it every time.

• 17:37Ky Dickens?

  That's very cool.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  And I know if she keeps on coming to me, then I'll try different techniques. I'll try different boards where I will start fading myself. I'll have different boards where I'll keep the board down. And then I'm not, I have air prompts and I will fade those air prompts. Wherever we feel be, there is a need of more prompting. We tell the parents, there's a need to work on the body.

• 17:56Ky Dickens?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  The more you work on the body, then the prompts, the fades.

• 18:01Ky Dickens?

  Fade away.

• 18:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:02Ky Dickens?

  Do you think though, like for you being, because a lot of the coaches and teachers I know who work with so many non-speakers, um, not only is it easier to be like a spelling coach and work with a lot of people, but the telepathy seems to be easier as well. But do you think that's because your mind gets trained like that? It just knows how to open much quicker?

• 18:23Speaker 03

  I always say I've been, I've always been really bad at like meditation and things like that. And I wonder if that's what it is. I wonder, no, you don't think that's it?

• 18:30Speaker 02

  No.

• 18:30Speaker 03

  I don't know. I think it's.

• 18:32Speaker 02

  Meditation and because I've gone through the spiritual journey for Akil. Because I was looking for these answers. At the age of 10 or 11, when Akil was typing and Akil started telling a lot of his inner thoughts. Now, what can I do? I had, he would say there are many different forms of minds. And I had no answer where to look for.

• 18:53Ky Dickens?

  So Akil said to you, there's many different forms of mind.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  Yes. And he started interacting, you know, with all the, um, ancestors and giving messages, you know, so he had a lot of perceptions.

• 19:03Speaker 03

  But even how Manisha talks about opening her mind and closing her mind, it's something that I can't grasp. So I, that's, that's why I feel like I might be blocking her somehow. Or she's blocking me. I don't, I don't know.

• 19:14Ky Dickens?

  What do you think that is? I mean, cause it's, it's painful for you. I can see that it's.

• 19:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, or I'm confused by it. To be honest, I mean, I. I, to be honest, I, I, I think I would be a little bit relieved that she's not always reading my mind because I'm, I'll be honest, it's not always good, you know, like, you know, autism can take you to some dark places and I've been really depressed and and if she was reading my mind in those moments, I'd, I'd be devastated because it was, it's not good, you know, it's not good things. But it's just, I'm just curious more than anything. I don't, I don't, it's, I want her to spell with me more than anything.

• 19:45Ky Dickens?

  Yeah.

• 19:45Speaker 03

  More, even more than the, the telepathy, but, but it just makes me curious, like, why is it, she has clearly read my mind sometimes, but other times I'm sure she doesn't, like, I have to study with her for school, you know, so there's, I'm saying the word and I'm, I'm, I, you know, I say definition, she's gotta give me the word and she's the word is in my head 10,000 times and she doesn't say it. So I'm like, she's, she, I don't think she's.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, the, the fear you have, if you let that fear go, okay?

• 20:11Speaker 03

  Uh, maybe, but maybe I do have a fear.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  Okay, let that fear, let that fear go.

• 20:15Speaker 03

  Well, the good thing is that it, it forces me to clean up my act, like, in the minute I start going down a dark place of like depression or whatever it is, I stop myself because I'm like, well, what if she can, what if she's reading my mind now?

• 20:26Speaker 02

  That's, that's a transformation.

• 20:28Speaker 03

  I don't ever want her to think that she's not enough or that she's making me unhappy in some way. And so I, it forces me to like, which is a great thing. So that's, she, she is changing me for the better, I think, in that sense.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  That's exactly the transformation journey, when your energy changes, when your breathing changes, when you, when you are in that with your space of integrity with yourself.

• 20:51Ky Dickens?

  Well, and also.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  The fear goes away, the fear goes away.

• 20:54Ky Dickens?

  Could it just be different minds too? Like, it might, it might not be anything you're doing, you know what I mean? I don't want you to put that pressure on yourself. It could just be, I mean, I don't know how it works. I feel like you are the resident expert in the room, Anisha, but.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  And she is not the only student who has come and told me that. Akil has told, it's very easy to read my mind. The other, other girl had, had come in the second session, the first statement she does completely open, you know, very aggressive, 22 year old, first session I did it with her and I started to have mind to mind connection and mom was trying to hold her. I said, no, no, don't, don't touch her, let her give her answers. Let it be wrong, that's fine. And in my mind, I'm telling her, it's okay. That's fine, you know, it's okay, I'm gonna accept this answer. So I'm talking in my mind. It's somewhere, it starts there. And if it is starting there for me, let it start because it's a relationship. And then we start slowly, slowly diving into it. Uh, why this? I'll give you another example.

• 21:52Speaker 02

  One of the students was constantly, uh, you know, throwing things on the floor. You give him something in his hand, throw. Pencil, throw, this, throw, throw. So we asked him, why are you throwing things? And he typed, because I want to hear the sound. Since then, till now, not even once years through. So once you enter into that mind, once they find the trust, that you are okay to give me your mind, I'm, I'm okay to tell you. It's like going to a friend, okay, or going for a therapy, and you open up to them. And you tell them everything. It's the trust. Why you open up to certain people and how are you don't open up to certain people? And as you're growing up, you have your friend, you have a best friend and you tell the best friend everything.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  But you will not tell that to your mom, or you not tell that to your dad, or you not tell to your brother, you know, it's like that.

• 22:43Ky Dickens?

  And I, I mean, I also think, I mean, this is like, in a way, telepathy might be like a muscle memory for your brain to just let go and get into. And I would imagine like people often use the metaphor of like ballroom dancing, right? Like you're a really good ballroom dancing partner because you've, in terms of typing, even telepathy, because you've done it with so many people.

• 23:00Speaker 02

  Got it.

• 23:00Ky Dickens?

  Done it. So you know how to get into that ballroom thing. So any child walking in is like, I can ballroom dance with you.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 23:06Ky Dickens?

  Where it might be harder for a parent or sibling who's like brand new, I would think, to just figure out how to connect in their brains. I, I mean, I don't know.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  So it's, so it's like you keep on doing, keep on doing, and you reach that part, but you need to keep on doing. I, I, I never ever sat with Akil saying, today Akil is going to read my mind. Okay, he would tell me, oh, your mind answer and my mind answer is same, but this is my mind answer.

• 23:32Ky Dickens?

  I have a question about gatekeeping now and telepathy. Like, is it still pretty pronounced of like, do not talk about telepathy within spelling? Or do you think it's getting a little better?

• 23:41Speaker 03

  I think there's like. There's like two camps of nonbelievers. One is religious, because even me, I was raised, I was raised Catholic and it was like, that's like demonic. You know, you just don't. And I think-

• 23:56Ky Dickens?

  Telepathy or-

• 23:57Speaker 03

  Telepathy. It's just, it's like, anything like that in the spiritual world, all of that stuff is like of the occult and it's just, you just don't go there. And then there's just others that are just, they don't believe anything unless it happens to them. There's just that, that camp, you know, like just thinking, ah, you know, they don't-

• 24:12Ky Dickens?

  And that, yeah, that's-

• 24:14Speaker 03

  I had told a friend of mine who I've been trying to get her to take her son-

• 24:18Ky Dickens?

  Yeah.

• 24:18Speaker 03

  Who has autism, to do spelling. I've been trying to tell her and tell her, and I, I just can see that he is really smart and he would do so well with spelling. I just have a feeling, you know, and I've been trying to encourage her. I've sent her videos and, and she just hasn't done anything. And then finally, I, I, I told her what happened with Manisha and then, and I even showed her the video of, and she's, and that's when she introduces to her husband, which I think was the biggest mistake, because if, if you're being introduced with, you know, the spelling at this, that, as of, for the first time with telepathy then, and if they're completely closed off to telepathy, they're gonna be closed off to spelling, because they're gonna think it's, it's together.

• 24:56Ky Dickens?

  Are you married?

• 24:57Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 24:58Ky Dickens?

  And how does your spouse respond to the telepathy?

• 25:01Speaker 03

  I, he's actually surprisingly open and, and, and believes it. When I gave him, when I would tell him the examples of like things that happened, I mean, he was just like, oh, that is weird. And then I showed him the Manisha thing and he was like, well, no doubt now. So-

• 25:17Speaker 02

  It is because the definition of the telepathy, which they see and they have been told.

• 25:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:23Speaker 02

  They want to hear from the clinicians. It's very commonly seen mostly, I don't know why, it's the, it's a dad's thing or what? That they want to hear from a professional rather than from a mom, because they think it's like a mom. And that's where I feel you need to redefine the word telepathy. And if you bring the telepathy and neuroscience into picture and how the brain works.

• 25:47Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 25:47Ky Dickens?

  Well, and a lot of, I, I've noticed now, especially in the scientific community, they'll call it non-local consciousness.

• 25:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 25:54Ky Dickens?

  Non-local communication.

• 25:55Speaker 03

  You just have to word it differently.

• 25:57Ky Dickens?

  Yeah, it's just wording it differently.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  That's why from the day one, I've been telling, I don't like the word telepathy, because it looks like telepathy. redefine the word telepathy.

• 26:05Ky Dickens?

  Yeah.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  It's not easy, Kai, that I can sit here and I can put a thought in your mind. Okay, and you are going to do that, you are going to say that. It's not, it's not that simple. Telepathy happens at that time.

• 26:18Ky Dickens?

  Hmm.

• 26:18Speaker 02

  It's like you and me have learned the script and learned the strategy and learned. Or you know how I think, you know how I think, you know what's going to be my next move. I know what's going to be my next move.

• 26:32Ky Dickens?

  Hmm.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  I know with your just basic, basic expression, just you doing this, what this mean to me. It's staying with each other for long and having that oneness relationship.

• 26:41Ky Dickens?

  How common though, now that you have a center and you're seeing all sorts of parents and kids come in. Like, how many of the individuals that you're working with do you think have this ability around non-local communication or telepathy?

• 26:54Speaker 02

  Almost everybody.

• 26:55Ky Dickens?

  Almost everybody?

• 26:56Speaker 02

  Wow. Yep.

• 26:59Ky Dickens?

  So, let's say for the majority of the, the non-speakers that you see.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:03Ky Dickens?

  There's telepathy.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:04Ky Dickens?

  If you bring it up to the parents, are they responsive or do they get upset? Or do you not even bring it up?

• 27:09Speaker 02

  I don't bring it out till the families are understanding what is this. But now, I do tell them very confidently. They always have constant thoughts going on in their mind. They always tell that they know when who's believing me, who's not believing me. They all know. They, they understand the world. They understand both the worlds. But it is hard and frustrating for them to. It's not, the body is not in their control.

• 27:47Ky Dickens?

  Hmm.

• 27:47Speaker 02

  It's not in control. All the, it would be very easy for somebody now just hold the letter board and now fade, fade it and let the, put the, let the letter board be on the, on your left hand and let the child spell. And now start fading yourself. Fading those perums, fading those techniques, fading, that is also a skill.

• 28:06Ky Dickens?

  It just feels like it takes practice. I mean, that's what it sounds like.

• 28:09Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 28:10Ky Dickens?

  Yeah, patience. I think it's important thing too. I mean, for parents or teachers or coaches, like, how can you assure that if you're wanting to teach an individual

• 28:22Ky Dickens?

  who's typing to communicate that their thoughts are their own, that their answers are their own? Like, what's the advice you'd give?

• 28:27Speaker 02

  We see the difference in the answers.

• 28:29Ky Dickens?

  So you can tell when it's your...

• 28:30Speaker 02

  Absolutely. No doubt about it.

• 28:32Ky Dickens?

  So what are some, I mean, talking about Siana now, like, let's dive into that a little bit. So you've been working with Siana, Bessie's daughter, for how long?

• 28:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think I did only three sessions.

• 28:42Ky Dickens?

  Three sessions?

• 28:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, it hasn't been that many, yeah.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:45Ky Dickens?

  And how is that going for you? Do you feel hopeful that she's gonna become open? And what are your...

• 28:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, I feel better, I'm more hopeful now. I've been practicing with her more at home. I took, I'm taking a speller's course, not the, the Speller's Parent Course.

• 29:01Speaker 03

  And it's been helpful. It's, because you, you kind of want, I think a big mistake that parents made, and I think I made it, you see them open with someone else and you just wanna ask them open and the question's right away. And it just doesn't work that way. You have to kind of start at the bottom.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  It takes time.

• 29:14Speaker 03

  And go up. And so she's doing better now. She's, before, because I'm her mother and I know all her little loops, she's like, she would have the impulse to do the loops with me, like, you know, say this and I say this, say this and I say this, and we can get caught in this, saying these loops all day. But she's kind of slowed down with that now. She's answering the questions. There's simple questions at this point. It's just spell this word, it's simple. But, but there's progress. So I'm hopeful. I just have to be more consistent in practicing.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  That's exactly it is. You keep on doing, keep on doing, and then have a courage to go into that space of asking open-ended questions. Why? And let it flow.

• 29:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I want no expectation, because I think in the beginning, I would have the expectation she wouldn't answer. I would get frustrated and it would be done. And it was, and it was my fault, because I would want it so bad that I would become frustrated. And I know she's feeding on my energy, and she would shut down or, you know, refuse to, to continue, so.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  That's exactly.

• 30:11Speaker 03

  So I'm getting better, just not even expecting that at this point, just kind of starting slow and building up.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  It will, it will happen. And don't, don't give up and don't be so hard on yourself. The time will come.

• 30:21Ky Dickens?

  Well, it will. And the thing is, I think about some of the non-speakers we feature on this show who got open at twenty.

• 30:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:27Ky Dickens?

  At twenty-six.

• 30:28Speaker 03

  I know.

• 30:28Ky Dickens?

  Eighteen. Like, you were starting so young. And what's really kind of exciting to think about is what I've heard from those older parents is, oh, my goodness, had I only started when they were nine or ten.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:41Ky Dickens?

  What would their life look like now? You know what I mean? So you're always doing that.

• 30:44Speaker 03

  I'm already thinking about that with high school. I want to put her in a high school where there's spelling. I don't want her to go to high school.

• 30:50Ky Dickens?

  So for someone in your position, learning, you know, learning the flow with your daughter, your child, and starting the process. Manisha, how, how many minutes a day do you think someone should practice with their child?

• 31:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, depends what, at least fifteen minutes to start with every day, but then go up to an hour. And then what the individual wants to do. If the individual is a, is a child who wants to learn a lot of new things and is thriving.

• 31:16Ky Dickens?

  Yeah.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Then you can go for hours and hours.

• 31:18Ky Dickens?

  You know, one thing that I feel like has come up a lot, and it might be good for both of you to talk about, I think, because you're in different perspectives of it, is so many parents are given very little hope and therefore do not presume competence, especially because there's such a behavior bent to our society, right? You watch behavior. But from the non-speakers that I've interfaced with, like, talked to, so often what they'll say is like, the baseline for communication is being presumed that you're competent, right? It's everything. I know you're smart. I know you're in there. I know you can do this. I have no doubt.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:49Ky Dickens?

  And I think for even parents, you don't presume competence for a very long time.

• 31:53Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Even when you think you are. Even when you think you are, you think, I'm presuming competence. But then you start to have these little doubts and you can't. You just can't.

• 32:01Ky Dickens?

  Well, a lot of parents who've even come in here to talk will say, I'll see other kids learn to spell and learn to communicate and get open. I think, oh, well, that's that kid. My kid.

• 32:09Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah. And I've loved the spellers movie. It's wonderful. But the only thing I wish they would have said more was about, because they showed how hard it is, the process, because they showed a lot of kids spelling after like, being open after like, the second session. And that just doesn't, that's just not the norm. So I wish they would have kind of talked a little bit about the process more that it's not, you just can't stick a keyboard in front of a kid and he's gonna start spelling.

• 32:34Speaker 02

  No.

• 32:34Speaker 03

  And I think we, but we want it so bad that you really just have to be patient and you just have to be patient and just, and go through the process and you will get the reward, but it's just being patient.

• 32:46Ky Dickens?

  And it can take months or years.

• 32:47Speaker 03

  It can take months or years.

• 32:48Ky Dickens?

  But you know why? Because I think this is what confuses people, especially people who are spelling skeptics will say, well, why can you put a board in front of someone and they can spell with Monish really well, but not someone at school or not with a parent or sibling? How do you explain that? I mean, I, I want to hear it from you.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  That's neuroscience. Autism is very, very new. Okay, our brain is so hardwired for everybody. I go to a doctor and if I'm not feeling well, first doctor tells me, don't worry, take this medicine, you'll be, you'll be all good. And you just know I take a medicine. Unfortunately for autism, there is no such guarantee. There is no such hope. The box is empty. When a parent like me sees the box is empty, I, my perspective was, oh, the box is empty means I can put so many things into that box now. What do you do when you have an empty box? If you see a box empty, you're gonna put a lot of things.

• 33:46Ky Dickens?

  Meaning you're trying different methodologies, treatments.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  Yes, but that was my perspective.

• 33:51Ky Dickens?

  So what you're saying is because there is no across the board treatment for autism or praxia or the ability to speak could look like an empty box, there's no treatment, sorry. And some parents will just take that as a death sentence in a way, like it's the end, there's nothing more we can do.

• 34:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:06Ky Dickens?

  Just accept that our child might be suffering or might not be able to communicate or might have these, you know, dangerous behaviors that are hurting, self-inflicting harm or whatever. But you're saying another way to look at it is like, oh, there's, I'll try everything.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:19Ky Dickens?

  And I will just start filling the box.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:21Ky Dickens?

  And what's, I think the most frustrating thing I would imagine as a parent with a child with autism is that it's different for everyone.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  It is different for everybody.

• 34:28Speaker 03

  I always, I always say it's like, there's like a million, you have a huge thing of keys, ring of keys, and one of them can unlock your child. And you just have to, if some people are lucky and the first key they try, it, it works. And for other people, there's lots of keys and you have to go through a lot of them before you find the one that works. On the way here, I was reading, um, Ido and Autism.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, what a, what a great book. I mean, and one of the things that he talks about, about why he would not spell with some people, um, was because of, he would see colors, he would see their aura. And if they were a certain color, he knew that those people are not, or he could just feel whether or not, if there was any doubt, they wouldn't, they wouldn't, he couldn't spell either.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  So it was like, they, there's a lot that goes into it, I think. I think they see people's, uh, auras, they feel energies, doubts, fears, and they just refuse if they, some people I think say they can't or they don't want to.

• 35:29Ky Dickens?

  Yeah. Is Sienna open with you yet?

• 35:31Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah. Yeah, Sienna's open.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, right away.

• 35:34Ky Dickens?

  And has she given any information that has been really helpful to you around maybe what she likes or doesn't like?

• 35:40Speaker 03

  We haven't asked those questions yet, yeah.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  I need to, I need to see her more because now I know which techniques to use with her.

• 35:47Speaker 03

  When Sienna was first diagnosed at like two years old, we did a lot of biomed stuff. Like first we tried the diet. I did the gluten free, casein free, soy free for like four years. We did so many supplements. I, I mean, I did craniosacral therapy. We did a little bit of M N R I, reflex integration, a little bit. But that, that requires, you have to be doing with them every single day.

• 36:11Speaker 02

  I did, we did.

• 36:12Speaker 03

  Parents have to do it like every day. Which is hard to work. Yeah. I mean, there's, so we've, we tried a lot and we, with, we spent thousands of dollars and with very little progress. But you know, something like spelling, if I can get her to be open with me, she can tell me what makes her feel good, what, what's, what, what's helping, what, does she feel better if I give her this, if I don't do this? Because guessing is hard. It's hard to see, you know, especially when you're not seeing that much progress. I think it's definitely worth trying and I think it's, I've seen how it's helped a lot of kids. Yeah. Kids of my, of my friends or whatever, but, and for some kids, I do think some of them are non-responders and I think my daughter was one of them. She just didn't respond, or she responded very negatively to, we did, we tried to do chelation. I mean,

• 36:58Speaker 03

  And she had a horrible regression with that. I mean, so it's, it, there's just so much and and you just have like the all these keys and you have to try them. And I think it's worth trying, but I reached the point that I said, I don't want to do anymore.

• 37:10Ky Dickens?

  Yeah. And I've heard this from so many parents. You try everything and sometimes it doesn't work or it's a net negative.

• 37:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:16Ky Dickens?

  And then you're done. It's exhausting. You just give up, kind of.

• 37:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I, and I, I mean, my daughter is, you know, she, she has some language. I, you know, she's, I'm not completely closed to trying things, but I've tried so many. And when I tell you so many, that I just, I don't know. I just feel like I need for her to spell because I think that's where independence will come or, you know, as much as more autonomy. And then she can tell me what she wants, what, what, what she needs.

• 37:48Ky Dickens?

  And I think, and Monisha, this is where you could probably weigh in on this too. You probably meet so many parents through your center who are at the end of their rope, who've tried everything, who have very little hope left. I've heard from a lot of parents who were at that space that the only thing that ended up working and changed their lives was spelling. Because negative behavior switched, they were able to figure out what their kid needed or didn't need. Even just simple things like meeting parents who said they thought their child loved a cartoon on loop, so they'd do that. And then when their child starts spelling, they're like, I hate that. It's so frustrating and so annoying.

• 38:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:21Ky Dickens?

  And never play that for me again, you know, which you don't know. You think you're doing the right thing. So, I mean, do you think of, of, of all the things parents could try, if you could suggest one, one thing, what would it be?

• 38:35Speaker 02

  It is so hard because every child is different. But you mentioned the word, use the word autonomy.

• 38:40Speaker 03

  Autonomy.

• 38:42Speaker 02

  Brain development.

• 38:43Ky Dickens?

  What's that?

• 38:44Speaker 02

  Brain development.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  Brain development.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  It's extremely important. Our kid's brain is not maturing. Our kids' reflexes are not integrated. They have a lot of inflammation in the body.

• 38:54Speaker 03

  Something that has helped though, at around eleven, around 10 years old, she started to show signs of puberty. And then her behaviors got really bad. And I was at my wit's end and I didn't know what to do. So I I did what I never thought I would do and I went to a psychiatrist and she's on Zoloft and it's been wonderful.

• 39:16Ky Dickens?

  Really?

• 39:17Speaker 03

  And I never thought in a million years I would try, but she needed it. It's just, it just calmed her down. It's, the anxiety is so much better. It's probably helped more than anything else.

• 39:29Ky Dickens?

  Wow, that's fascinating. How have you reconciled now the telepathy with the very, almost like fearful religious point of view of this is dark or this is something dangerous?

• 39:39Speaker 03

  I think anyone should read the Book of Heaven because when I heard about Katie and Houston and how, how he was very spiritual and I read the book and it just completely

• 39:53Ky Dickens?

  changed the mind.

• 39:54Speaker 03

  Just, I, I just, there's no way you can read that book and read Houston's thoughts and think there's anything demonic about it. In those dark moments with autism and you're seeing kids suffer and you're suffering and you're like, where's God in this? And then to learn about, he's been with them this whole time.

• 40:13Ky Dickens?

  Yes.

• 40:13Speaker 03

  He has been there, he's been there. He found a way to reach them when we couldn't, you know? It's just, to me, it was so comforting. It's like a comforting, like he's been there the whole time. He's found a way to bring peace to our kids when they didn't have peace in this world. I mean, to me, it was, it was a complete opposite of demonic. It was beautiful.

• 40:34Ky Dickens?

  And I think just to add to that, which is so, I think, important, right? Is that, you know, there's people in our film, Hindu, Orthodox Jewish, Christian, Muslim, I mean, or that, like in the telepathies universe that we've talked to, or agnostic. And the wonderful, most amazing thing is once the children start spelling openly, even if the parents weren't deeply devoutly religious and whatever, in whatever denomination they come from, the kids seem to have this profound, deep connection with God.

• 41:07Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 41:08Ky Dickens?

  And also, quite often we'll talk about spending time somewhere else.

• 41:14Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 41:16Ky Dickens?

  God, or with, you know, I don't even know what, but it's really beautiful.

• 41:21Speaker 03

  Beautiful, it's beautiful. And I don't know how you can hear that and hear those words and hear it from these non-speakers and think that there's anything negative about it. Like, how can you believe that? It's almost got a way of keeping them connected because they know that kids need connection. And we all need connection, and that's, and they didn't have the ability to connect in this physical world, so he did in the spiritual world. To me, it was so comforting that all those times that I was like, where are you, God? He was there. He was there all along with our, with our babies. And it's, it's bearing beautiful things, love, it's love. So, how can you see anything, see it as anything other than, than, than what God wants?

• 41:59Ky Dickens?

  Yeah. And I also think, I've said this before, when someone's like, but telepathy, what I'm thinking, what, what is prayer? You pray in your head.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:08Ky Dickens?

  And expecting someone to hear it. That is telepathy. If you're Catholic and you're praying to a saint, you're doing it in your head. Something, a majority of the American public have said that they will talk to deceased loved ones.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:21Ky Dickens?

  In their mind. There's this deep understanding, they can hear me. If you don't have a body, you can hear me. Like, that isn't that far flung. But suddenly, when it's like, person to person, it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

• 42:30Speaker 03

  I know.

• 42:31Ky Dickens?

  So, Betsy, why don't you just kind of like, are there any questions or thoughts or feelings or even lessons that you want to share with people, right? Of like, where you've been, where you're at right now, what you're hopeful about?

• 42:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think the spelling is, is gonna, is what's gonna unlock so much.

• 42:49Ky Dickens?

  And how, are you feeling hopeful about spelling?

• 42:51Speaker 03

  Oh, I'm very hopeful. Yeah, I bet I'm not giving up. I am not giving up on spelling. Because that is her way to communicate. And so I have to keep going. I have to. And I, and I think once she can communicate with me and be open with me and tell me what she feels, I can ask her, do you want to try this? Or do you not want to try? I can leave it up to her. Because me trying to

• 43:14Speaker 03

  Figure it out was, was I think making both of us frustrated, leaving both of us frustrated. And so just kind of being focused on that and, and being, and just remember to be patient. And that if they're not open with it, it's probably our own fault. Um, and just having the, just starting from the bottom, having no expectations. Cause I think the more expectations we have, they're feeding off of that energy. And so I think that's, I, and I, and that's as far as the spelling, as far as the telepathy stuff. I think for me, the big lesson is that you have to really be mindful of your thoughts. And I think that's not a bad thing. I think my daughter's helping me to, to try to be more positive, uh, helping me not to go into those dark places.

• 43:59Speaker 03

  And I think that's a wonderful gift.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Also, I want to tell every parent, and including me, not to be so hard on ourselves.

• 44:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Be so isolated. Okay. We never ever ask, even like, I never ask, even Betsy, never ask, how are you doing?

• 44:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's true.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  You know, it's very, it's not if you don't, I don't mean to, you know? But it's, we are so engrossed into our, every moment a child is having a behavior or meltdown or aggression just brings us down.

• 44:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:31Speaker 02

  It just affect us. So it's very, very, very hard. And if you need to take a break, there is no guilt feeling, you know? Do things for yourself.

• 44:38Speaker 03

  We definitely are really hard on ourselves. We blame ourselves a lot for a lot of things.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  There is no perfect coaching for us because what the coach will write for us, you know? We need to sit down and ask, what do I want to do? And it just affects the overall energy in the house. So it's very, very difficult, important to, you know, do things for yourself, keeping the guilt away.

• 45:02Speaker 03

  That's a great note to end on because truly.

• 45:05Ky Dickens?

  Parents who are, you know, giving so much of their time

• 45:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 45:09Ky Dickens?

  and sacrifice to children who need more. It is a love that is beyond anything I think most people have ever understood. The amount of perseverance and patience. And you have to give yourself some slack.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  And also, don't forget it's the individual's journey. They come with their own karma.

• 45:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, and not compare, because I think we tend to compare, especially when we see someone kids spelling faster or doing better or. And that comparison is just, it's just, it's just not suiting anybody. It's not helping at all.

• 45:39Ky Dickens?

  Okay, so thank you all for joining us. If you want to learn more about Manisha's Center in New Jersey, you can go to AAFsensorypathway.com. And there's classes and workshops and resources there. Thank you both for joining us. What an awesome conversation.

• 45:54Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 45:55Ky Dickens?

  And I wish you both the best of luck. You have to keep us posted.

• 45:58Speaker 03

  I will.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  Thank you. Yes, yes.

• 46:01Ky Dickens?

  That's it for this episode of The Talk Tracks. But new episodes will be released every Wednesday. So stay tuned as we work to unravel all the threads, even the veiled ones that knit together our reality. And please remember to stay kind, stay curious, and that being a true skeptic requires an open mind. To dive in deeper, subscribe to our Backstage Pass by visiting our website. With it, you'll unlock access to bonus content like telepathy tests, Ask Me Anything interviews with myself and guests. You'll be able to enjoy the podcast ad free, connect with other members on our Telepathy Tribe Discord, and hear and see exclusive content from the Telepathy Tapes Vault. Visit our website at thetelepathytapes.com for more info on how to subscribe to our Backstage Pass. Thank you to my amazing collaborators.

• 46:44Ky Dickens?

  Producers Catherine Ellis and Selena Kennedy, technical directing, audio mix and finishing by Jeremy Cole, opening and closing music by Elizabeth P. W., and original logo and cover art by Ben Condor Design. I'm Kai Dickens, your executive producer, writer, and host.