Know & Love Yourself First: Dating at 60 with Fiona Lambert

Curious about how to navigate major life changes such as menopause or post-divorce? In this episode, Fiona Lambert explores finding yourself after 60, dating, and flourishing with newfound independence. Fiona, a former fashion executive turned wellness advocate and author, opens up about navigating the post-divorce landscape, the importance of self-love, and the challenges and joys of entering the dating world again. Her bestselling book, 'SAS 60 and Single: Your Survival Guide,' serves as a critical guide for women facing similar transitions. "It's never too late, never too old"—discover how Fiona embodies this mantra in one of the most personal and inspiring episodes yet. To view full show notes, more information on our guests, resources mentioned in the episode, discount codes, transcripts, and more, visit https://drmindypelz.com/ep295 Fiona Lambert, author of the acclaimed Invincible Not Invisible, returns with her second book, a witty and insightful guide to navigating the world of dating after 60. Drawing on her own experiences and conversations, Fiona explores the challenges, surprises, and joys of finding connection later in life. Renowned as one of the UK's leading businesswomen, Fiona has built a remarkable career spanning over 30 years in the fashion industry. She has held senior roles at Next, Asda, Dunelm, and River Island and was most recently Managing Director of Jaeger at M&S, where she led its celebrated reinvention. In this latest chapter of her journey, Fiona combines her professional insight with personal reflection, offering readers an engaging perspective on embracing new beginnings at any stage of life. Check out our fasting membership at resetacademy.drmindypelz.com https://resetacademy.drmindypelz.com/. Please note our medical disclaimer https://drmindypelz.com/medical-disclaimer/.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Mindy Pelz?

  On this episode of the Resetter Podcast, I bring you Fiona Lambert. And this discussion is definitely one I have never brought you because it is about how do you start dating in your 60s? And what you're going to learn in this conversation is really more than just how do you go back out there and start dating in your 60s? Or any time, I mean, the whole conversation is really about a post divorce story. But we start the conversation at how do you decide when it's time to leave a 30-year relationship?

• 0:43Mindy Pelz?

  And how do you navigate moving from that long-term relationship into your own life and then back out into a dating life? And there's a lot of really good nuggets in here that I think a lot of you will find some inspiration from. Fiona is really good at articulating her journey. She has a really cool background, which I'll just pour out to you right now because it will inform you about why she's so clear on this new dating life that she has created for herself. So Fiona is a renowned fashion executive turned wellness advocate from the UK.

• 1:27Mindy Pelz?

  And she transformed her health and fitness right before she turned 60. So you're going to hear that. There's a lot of cool things Fiona has done to change her life around right before 60, which I know many of you are in that place. And she has over 35 years in leadership in a major fashion brand and a thriving career as a mother, awesome entrepreneur, and now an author of several books. Her bestselling book, one that we talk a little bit about, is called Invincible, Not Invisible, which is a phenomenal title.

• 2:06Mindy Pelz?

  And the book we're going to talk about in this episode is 60 and Single: Your Survival Guide to Dating. She actually starts it off with SAS, SAS instead of SOS. So really cool concept, really cool woman. And what you're going to learn that I think you will find Inspiring is how do you navigate out of a marriage into independence and then into another relationship? What does that look like? How do you deal with the rejection? How do you make sure you don't lose yourself again? How do you make sure you don't repeat old patterns? What kind of dating app do you go on? What are you aware to your first

• 2:47Mindy Pelz?

  date? These are things that we discuss intimately here and it's a really beautiful discussion with a woman who stood up for herself and made a decision that at 60, life was going to look different. So though I know a lot of you are navigating this moment, which is why I wanted to bring Fiona to you. And if it moves you, go grab her books or both of the books. And as always, I hope this conversation enlightens you and gives you a lighter heart, a broader perspective and leads you to a more authentic you. Fiona Lambert, enjoy.

• 3:29Mindy Pelz?

  Welcome to the Resetter Podcast. This podcast is all about empowering you to believe in yourself again. If you have a passion for learning, if you're looking to be in control of your health and take your power back, this is the podcast for you.

• 3:53Mindy Pelz?

  Okay, well, let's start here, Fiona. Let me just welcome you to the Resetter Podcast where we have some pretty epic conversations on this platform that I don't have anywhere else. And I'm really excited to dive into this one with you. So let me just start off by saying welcome.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you. Honestly, I can't wait to talk about all the subjects that we've got so much in common in.

• 4:18Mindy Pelz?

  Yes, agreed, agreed. So check this out. So I don't know, it was maybe five to 10 years ago when I was going through my perimenopausal experience. I was really deeply trying to understand like how the brain changes, how hormones affect us. Like I've spent a lot of time deep in research on this. And one of the things that I really wanted to understand is what the purpose of menopause was. And this is the premise of my whole next book. And one of the things that I discovered by looking through it through the evolutionary lens, the neuroscience lens, looking at a feminist psychologist, is that I really think

• 4:59Mindy Pelz?

  menopause, that moment where we transition out of our hormonal regularity is a moment in which we upgrade everything in our life. We look at our relationships, we look at our habits, we look at, for me, it was my location. I didn't want to live where I was living anymore. But I think a lot of women go through this moment where they look at everything in their life that they've built and they decide, I'm gonna keep that, I'm gonna get rid of that, I'm gonna upgrade this. And so I want to start this conversation off. I know your new book is about being 60 and single. But the other thing I heard

• 5:40Mindy Pelz?

  is that there was a 31 year old marriage that ended in this process. So, and I'm assuming that happened during your menopausal years. So I'm wondering if we can start at that part of your story. You know, how did that, how did you know you needed to leave? How did that unfold? And what was that like to do while going through menopause?

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh. So I have to start by saying, actually, it was tough. It was a tough decision.

• 6:08Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  You know, you don't have a relationship. And I still, I still love my husband. I don't think we liked each other anymore. And I think, as you say, I think the, my cycle happened quite, my menopause came quite late. And I think everything that happened to me happened in my 60th year. You know, I got super fit, I got made redundant, but also I did decide that my marriage wasn't something that was going to work, or something that I wanted to embrace for the next 30 years, hopefully. And I think that

• 6:41Speaker 01

  As you talk about menopause being a reset, I think it was this, you know, huge acceptance of going, you know, this is a, it's a positive thing rather than a negative thing and embrace it. And, you know, uh, why should I be accepting of something that is not bringing me joy? You know, I want to carry on having adventures. And I do think actually, you know, you change, you change. You know, I, you know, I became, I became stronger through work. I became accepting of the menopause and the changes that brings. And I very much wanted to make that a positive effect versus a negative effect.

• 7:19Mindy Pelz?

  Yes. I, and, and I, this is why I wanted to bring this out before we dive into the topic of your next book, because this is happening to so many women. And I wanted to understand, like, when you look at 70% of divorces are initiated by women after 40, something has women looking at their relationships different. And there were two major things that I looked at that relate to what you just said. The first is when our hormones come in, we have a, we have a very relational brain. When we have a regular hormonal cycle, we access

• 8:03Mindy Pelz?

  both our right and left hemispheres. We have a larger corpus callosum, which connects the two hemispheres, which makes our brains very relational, which basically means I'm willing to put your needs ahead of my own. Because my, my brain can see the whole, your, your feelings and my feelings. When estrogen drops, we go into a lateralized brain, where we're no longer going right and left cross referencing, we're going, we're picking either I'm in my right brain, or I'm in my left brain. And I believe this is the moment the people pleasing ends.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Oh, 100%.

• 8:50Mindy Pelz?

  Right? So, so was it like an, a sort of a gradual time where you're like, this relationship isn't working, this relationship isn't working? And then maybe hitting a place where you were like, I, you said it earlier, like, I don't like who is showing up. I don't like me in this relationship.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  Yes. And I think whether you, you call it a, you know, a landmark age, 60 was a bit of a,

• 9:21Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Is, you know, it was something that I hit, as I said, and it was a whole combination. I think people pleasing actually across the board, really, because, you know, I, you know, I changed my career, became an author and actually ended up creating content as well, you know, my marriage still. And I actually, I am living my best life at the moment because I've stopped worrying. Well, you know, is the joy of no now, it's saying no to things more often. And I think that, that 60 was definitely an age where I, I, I thought, you know, I don't want to compromise anymore.

• 9:55Mindy Pelz?

  Yes. And I want everybody who's listening to this to also be thinking, this isn't always in our relationship. Sometimes like, one of the places it landed for me is I could no longer live in the home I was living in. I was like, I need, I can't do this town. I can't do this home. I need to be somewhere else. And I think a lot, for a lot of us, that's, there's these really big parts of our life that we're like, no, can't do it. And Julie Gottman's a friend and are you familiar with the Gottmans?

• 10:26Speaker 01

  No, I'm not.

• 10:27Mindy Pelz?

  So the Gottmans have studied marriage in a lab, as much as you can imagine that being, more for, for decades, more than anybody, any other researcher. And I actually was with her a month ago and we were talking about the impact that menopause had on marriage. And one of the things she said is that when women realize their marriages are over or they're depressed within their marriage, it's because they've been saying yes. All along to things they really wanted to say no to. And they just kept saying, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then they get resentful in the marriage. Do you feel you made a lot of changes in your life?

• 11:10Mindy Pelz?

  And I want to just make sure this conversation is more than just relationship changes. You've made career changes, you made fitness changes. Where do you think you those yeses were that your younger self was agreeing to things? That she really wanted to say no to?

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Though I think my, my, I mean, I had a fantastic career, which I loved in fashion. Um, and you, but I think one of the things is you realize a lot of your self esteem is caught up in your role. And, and, and that is, you know, that brings on the people pleasing as well because you, you know, you, you're on a treadmill of being successful and continue to deliver and reputational. And as I said, I, I got made redundant at 60. And I stopped, instead of chasing another job. I decided, well, actually I'm going to take some time out and get to my absolute kickest and almost sort of make 60 beginning and not see it as an end and almost hopefully

• 12:09Speaker 01

  role model that, you know, there's loads of life to be had. And similarly, I guess with my marriage, I think I compromised a lot. Um, you know, and made myself maybe a bit smaller and you know, whether it was the age or I had realized the impact of the hall bones on the, on the left brain and right brain.

• 12:31Mindy Pelz?

  Right.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  Fascinating.

• 12:32Mindy Pelz?

  That's right.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  Uh, so, so, you know, it, you know, it was, it was, you know, there was something in my head that thought I don't want to not be living a true Fiona, whether it was through work or in my marriage. And I, you know, I actually said to somebody the other evening, you know, I feel I'm being more me than I've ever been, uh, you know, without, without the people pleasing.

• 12:53Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, I love that. And you know, how many women are saying this right now, which is why I think our stories are really important to tell. Because the other statistic that's haunted me for years is the most common time for a woman to commit suicide is from the decade from 45 to 55. And I believe so strongly that this is the time that that relational brain is changing. And so all of a sudden she starts to see that things aren't working in her life. When you go to make a change, like change a career, leave a marriage, can you walk us through that process? Like, there has to be fear, is there doubt?

• 13:36Mindy Pelz?

  Is there like, how do you know to keep pushing through the pain? And knowing that you're going to get to the place you're at now? Because I'm sure when you went in to your divorce, you didn't know you were going to be years later in the happiest place of your life.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  No, no, certainly not.

• 13:55Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah. Can you also talk about that journey?

• 13:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's quite interesting how many people on both counts said, you're really brave. Because I think, as you said, and you know, you quoted that statistic on suicide. You know, I didn't, I said it was hard. You know, it was, it was a really, really hard decision. And, you know, I suppose other people must see it as hard because a lot of people probably wouldn't make those steps. I think what was helpful was actually having a group of very close friends. You could probably see the difference in you. And see you probably, you know, when you're in their company or a different person. And they see you being a, you know, behaving differently, whether it was at work or in the marriage.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  And think, and they, they are often the people that can bring the external viewpoint and give you the courage, give you the courage because they can see.

• 14:50Mindy Pelz?

  Yep.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Past it, or unequally, people who've been through it as well. I guess, you know, it's quite interesting writing the book. I wish I'd read it actually before, before I started dating, actually, because there's so much about finding yourself again first. If you come out of a long relationship, you don't realize how much you have, you know, you've got behaviors or you've got connections that all of a sudden you've got to relearn being single again. But you're, you're definitely friends and connections, I think, are a great support at that time because they see the potential in you and maybe see how you, how you behave differently in, in, in an alternate environment.

• 15:29Mindy Pelz?

  So powerful. So I mean, I, you know, I, I've also watched Jane Fonda for many years, who says that she would not be existing in her eighties now if it hadn't been for her girlfriends. And I really do think a good, strong, grounded set of women to guide you through an experience like that is, is mandatory. So I love, I love the way that you're stating this. Jill, before we go into like, again, I want, I want to bring this to a place where people can learn how to thrive after 60 and start dating. But, but I, I feel like where, what do we do with the self doubt? I mean, you had, you, you go through this decision that you need to end

• 16:11Mindy Pelz?

  this long-term marriage that was probably safety for you. And, you know, a bit bumpy. And then you come out and where, where did you get, how did you handle self doubt? Where did you get confidence to start a life over again?

• 16:28Speaker 01

  I always think some of the best advice I've always been given is never overthink the future. You know, you, you can't change the past and you can't predict the future. All you can is, is live the best today. And I think you could sit there going all of the what ifs, what if it doesn't work? What if I regret it? What if, you know, and you, and you do that. I think the best thing is to focus on the day and, and you know, you have to, you do have to love yourself first. You know, you have to keep this affirmations about yourself. Because that way you realize you don't need somebody to complete you. And you know, you, you have that strength in yourself to be on your, you know, on your own. It's

• 17:11Speaker 01

  better probably to be on your own and have a sort of uncertain, uncertainty about it versus being in a secure place that isn't making you happy. And you do, I think you do have to just keep reminding yourself that. And yeah, I think, you know, definitely you need to start that loving yourself, dating yourself, you know, really embracing positive affirmations, celebrate what you're capable of on your own, and, and keep doing that every single day to build up your self-esteem and remove those, you know, sort of the doubt that always, always going, the what ifs, what ifs.

• 17:47Mindy Pelz?

  Mm hmm. I can totally see that. Where fitness came into it for you, because I know you wrote your last book. I love the title, From Invisible to Invincible.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, Invincible Must Invisible, yeah.

• 18:00Mindy Pelz?

  Um, oh, and yeah, I'm like that, because that has been a big thing. I keep saying, well, we should be invincible. If you look at us, if you look at the brain changes that happen to us when we go through menopause, we're evolutionary heroines. We should be held up in high regard. But, you know, we, so many women fear becoming invisible. So I'm curious how much fitness, like if you went into your body, you got yourself fit, like, how did that help you with confidence?

• 18:30Speaker 01

  A hundred percent, I'm sure it did. I mean, again, I think a lot of

• 18:36Speaker 01

  women will be in a marriage, almost thinking, I'm never going to meet somebody else, or they've, you know, lost body confidence, or, and I, and I think, you know, that might be some of the reasons why people don't find that courage to leave, because, you know, they're worried they do need someone to compete, and then their lack of body confidence maybe stops that. And I think being fit makes you stronger mentally and physically. I mean, it does take, you know, it takes, it takes resilience, it takes you to have goals and achieve them. You know, you know, your self-discipline to do some exercise. It's, you know, you've got fabulous endorphins and dopamine, you know, running around your body, making you feel great.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  So I think, you know, and then, you know, you're mentally and physically strong. So I think, you know, undeniably, getting to my fittest at 60, probably a, you know, a decision that I could move on. And, you know, I'm all for actually promoting as well. It's better to be strong than skinny at the moment as well. You know, I just think, you know, and there's absolutely no reason, you know, being, you know, building up your muscle as an older woman is going to stand you in great stead for both your strength and your metabolism as you age. So, you know, I'm sort of out there being an advocate of going, it's never too late, never too old, get to your fittest. But I think it will not only do that, it will help you mentally, you know, with your

• 20:02Speaker 01

  resilience and your confidence as well.

• 20:06Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, that's what I've noticed about health in general. When life, my motto has been, when life falls apart, start focusing on your health. Because you can control that, you have more control over that. It'll reconnect yourself to you, to yourself. It'll give you confidence. And it's, it's an action item that you can, you can do to make yourself feel better. So I have used that go to when all, everything in my life falls apart. I'm like, okay, I'm doubling down on my health now. What am I gonna do to make myself even healthier? And sometimes fitness is a part of that. So I could really see that.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  But it's an amazing, it's an amazing investment. It's an investment into your future self as well. So, you know, it's a win-win.

• 20:51Mindy Pelz?

  To rely, it's like you don't need to rely on anybody. You're just like, oh, I'm gonna do this for myself. I'm gonna build my own confidence up and then see how life changes. It, it has been my absolute go-to every time life falls apart. I work on another aspect of my health to bring back some strength. And then it oozes into my life. It's, it's such a powerful tool. Were you, were you, were you, were you working out a lot before, before 60? Or were you, did you come to fitness later in life?

• 21:22Speaker 01

  No, I was, I was fit and I was probably, I was trained with a trainer once a week. And I probably did, I discovered that doing 15 minutes of HIIT training, like two or three times a week is phenomenal. I'd encourage anybody to do it.

• 21:34Mindy Pelz?

  Amazing, agree.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  In the book, I, you know, I talk about that because it's over very quickly. You burn lots of calories and it raises your metabolism afterwards. So it makes you, yeah, it's a fabulous, fabulous way of working out. But with, with 60 approaching, as I said, it was a bit of a, it was, I was sort of, I know it sounds awful. I was dreading saying the age. And I thought, why is that? And I thought, I have to turn it into a positive. So, you know, I took two months to get to my absolute, you know, absolute thickest. I had my training with a PT trainer twice a week and I had my HIIT training to four times a week. But it is, there's no silver bullet. I, you know, I cut out sugar, I cut out alcohol, increased all of my protein, which again is a great thing to do anyway. As a woman, as you mature, you have a much higher protein content in your diet.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  So, yeah, I was fit, but I, you know, there was a fabulous, I'm sorry, goal orientated. Actually, it was a fabulous goal, yeah, to just to get to my thickest at 60 as a bit of a sort of two, two fingers up to, you know, to both society and having to say it, yeah.

• 22:33Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, it's a great call. It's a great call. It achieves a lot, a lot of different pieces. Okay, so this leads me to how do you know you're ready to date again? I will say that I, some of my closest friends have ended their marriages and moved on. And I've spent a lot of time watching them go, I'm never going to date again, to finally coming to a place of, I think I am going to date again. What was, what was that, that deciding factor for you? That made you want to go out and, and, and connect with another human again?

• 23:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, hand on heart, I think I started too soon. And it's interesting having, yeah, I think it's interesting having, having written the book because I, yeah, it was, it was friends, of course, who encouraged me. It was sort of like the get back on the horse kind of analogy.

• 23:27Mindy Pelz?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and actually, I wish I hadn't. I wish I hadn't. And the, the, the first chapter in the book, and the book is called F A S sixty and single, your survival guide to dating, is about love yourself first and date yourself first.

• 23:41Mindy Pelz?

  Yep.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  And, and I think, you know, really knowing what makes you tick, what you want from a relationship, what things you love doing, what make, what brings you joy, what doesn't bring, and you're saying no to things that don't bring you joy. And, you know, it's interesting as well, you, thirty, after thirty one, you're married as well. There are friends and connections as well.

• 24:02Mindy Pelz?

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  You will lose, you will lose. So, you know, there's a, there's a bit as well of establishing almost new friendship groups as well, and, you know, a new support group. So, and it was interesting, I'm trying to think, so I finally was separated last, I think it was last April. Getting through a Christmas New Year on my own was, was, was quite significant though. Cause I was dreading it and I'm, you know, sort of thinking, oh, this is going to be really difficult. It's my first single Christmas and first single New Year. Actually, it was fine. And I thought, you know, I've grown up now.

• 24:35Mindy Pelz?

  Well, oh, yeah.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I've, you know, it was, I think that's why I thought that was the moment when I thought I'm ready.

• 24:40Mindy Pelz?

  Love that.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  All the things I was anticipating, feeling very nostalgic about or very sentimental about. Actually, it was okay.

• 24:49Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  That was, that was my significant moment. But I had gone through a lot of, you know, um, you know, actually from, you know, working, you know, I was, used to work in big teams of people. And also used to live in a, you know, live with my husband in a marriage. I was on my own in a house and, you know, I love company and I'm very gregarious and very sociable. And, you know, there were moments probably when I was lonely and I had to almost have to as well learn to be good in my own company. Um, which, which is quite interesting. And again, I think by finding yourself and being okay on your own is quite important as well before you start dating.

• 25:26Mindy Pelz?

  Yep.

• 25:28Mindy Pelz?

  You know, that it's another thing that I found in my research is that there's some pretty strong evidence that when we go into puberty as girls, um, we start getting societal messaging that you're good, you're worthy. If you're pleasing everybody around you. And so when we hit our menopausal years, we haven't really exercised that muscle. What do I want? And what I'm hearing you say is the moment of loneliness or the moment of being alone, provided you that opportunity to get to know yourself in, in a different way and, and get to know what you, what you actually want

• 26:10Mindy Pelz?

  outside of the demands of other people around you. And I would, I, I would think that is scary and freeing all at the same time. Did you, what did you, what did you discover about yourself that you were shocked? Like in the alone, you can learn a lot. Was there anything you were shocked by in those first initial transition into alone?

• 26:38Speaker 01

  I I studied a lot more, actually. You know, I sort of did a lot more reading and things. So I think that finding your own viewpoints and things through reading and education, you know, that aren't your joint views, you know, it gives you it gives you the time to do that. Um, I do think, you know, I think I've got very strong bonds with my mum and dad and my my children as well. And actually, they they become more important and different as well.

• 27:06Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  Uh, when it's not not as a couple. And I I mean, I love the outdoors. I love walking. I love climbing. And actually, just having time doing that and really, you know, I I I found time enjoying nature, which I've probably sacrificed some of that. Because my husband didn't enjoy it as much, actually. So so that was that was great to actually, you know, find just how meditative, actually, I'm not very good at meditating. Yeah, I I find the outside and walking very meditative.

• 27:37Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, yeah. I I mean, and all amazing things that I think the transition of menopause provides is that for all of us, whether people stay in relationships or leave, a big part of age like a girl is my next book. And I really want to bring forward that it is that moment to step in and get to know yourself because of the brain changes that have happened. So that was so beautifully stated. Okay, now you decide you're gonna go out and you're gonna date. I mean, in as a woman who's in a thirty plus year old marriage, I wouldn't even know where to begin. Like, do you go to a dating app? Like, we didn't have dating apps back then. Like,

• 28:18Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 28:19Mindy Pelz?

  Where do you start? Do you put a sign out? I'm ready. Like, how do you go after this?

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness, indeed. Well, it it's so funny because, you know, everybody goes, I could write a book about my dating stories, and I did. So.

• 28:32Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, there you go.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it was it was just such a learning experience, as you said, you know, right? You know, I I, you know, I think I met my husband at a nightclub where our eyes met across the dance floor. You know, that's, you know, that's how you used to meet people. It was sort of, whereas, you know, I said that I'd never ever ventured on a dating app before. What's quite interesting now, because I do have a section on trying to meet people outside of dating apps. But gosh, it's hard now, you know, because the situation, you know, the way

• 28:58Mindy Pelz?

  Interesting.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  in in in, I'm gonna say bars now. Because of society's changes now, people don't like to be, you know, they don't, they're scared of approaching or they're worried it's going to come across wrong. And there's quite a lot of changes to how people behave now, I think. In a situation where you could go and approach a group of ladies or a group of gents or whatever and talk to them. It's, it's quite interesting changes. So yeah, so I embarked on the world of dating apps and gosh, it's hard.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  So one you recommend, is there? Wow. Yeah. So I, I think I tried six different ones in the end and uh, yeah, yeah. Well, I, I, I, I think I started off on two and then I thought when it was a book, I thought, you know, I'm going to have to. You know, experience a few more and how they work. So I rec, of the ones I went on, I recommended Bumble, which is the female, female led app actually. So, but gosh, there was, so, so I, I, the section in the, in the book, I talk about date yourself first, learning about yourself. Then I do talk about, what do you want from your next partner? Because you just don't necessarily want to go with what you've always wanted to explore and end up with a version two of your, of your. Don't repeat, don't repeat the same mistakes.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  Exactly that. And then I talk about actually writing your own profile and give some tips on that and how to, which are the right sort of photographs. And I've got a great friend who's a professional matchmaker as well. And she supported me and gave me some advice as well. Um, and then um, how to manage those first conversations and uh, because you know, whether it's closed questions, you know, yes and no questions don't get you anywhere. And you do find lots of men who give one word answers. So trying to winkle out some information that's going to help you find the right person. And then there are some interesting characters that come out the woodwork. I'm trying to give everybody some tips on how to navigate them, whether it's sadly the cougar hunters. There's lots of young gentlemen who I think if you're an older woman, you're going to be desperate to date them.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  You've got some narcissists on there and some misogynists and I'm giving tips on how to find them and spot them and you know, dodge them. Yeah. So, and then yeah, I do. Oh my God, I love that. Yeah, there is. And then um, yeah, there's ti- tips on all the sort of terminology, which I'd never use, the zombieing and the ghosting and the breadcrumbing and. There's all sorts of terminology that you, you need to know when you're dating a like.

• 31:11Mindy Pelz?

  That's so funny. So, so one of my closest friends who will probably listen to this episode and die that I'm telling this story. We were at a supermarket and she got hit on by a good looking younger man. She's 60 and this guy must have been early 30s and or late 20s, early 30s. And, and we leave and she was flirting with him in the supermarket and we leave and she's like, he just gave me his number. And I'm like, are you serious? Like, he's the same age as my son. I can't go and date that guy. So, so do you like, do you have to like, put an age parameter?

• 31:56Speaker 01

  You do, you do.

• 31:57Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah. How do you build out what, what your boundaries are and who you're going to attract?

• 32:02Speaker 01

  Well, I think that part of the beginning about what do you want from a relationship is important. It's, it's interesting because I started off, I think I, I mean, I'm 62 and I think I put, I think I put 48 to 62, who actually on my data parameters, too much information. But somebody said, well, you should lower it, you know, and I think I did. In fairness, I think I dated a 43 year old for a little bit. But it is interesting what you said, because you know, whether it is this change in hormones and this strength you get and this confidence you get and the lack of people, the, the lack of people pleasing. What you do find is it is unbelievably attractive to,

• 32:41Speaker 01

  genuinely, there are 25 year olds, young men who say they are 45 in order to meet you. So they'll, they'll put their age as 45. So you think you'll make, you know, you think you're big paired up with somebody who's 45 and actually they're 25. So I, you know, what's, what's been fascinating to find out is actually, you know, these, these years are our best years and this confidence we've got of stopping people pleasing is unbelievably attractive.

• 33:09Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah. And don't you wish you had it when you were 25?

• 33:12Speaker 01

  Oh gosh, I wish, yeah. I so wish our younger selves, we were less worried about how we looked, our body shape and, you know, what other people thought of us. I, yeah, I've often talked about what I'd tell my 21 years old and it would be, it would be worry less. It would be worry less for sure.

• 33:29Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so true. Okay. What was the first date like you went on? Did you, was that, was that the, the first couple of dates had to be weird? Was that hard to kind of get back in, back in the

• 33:42Speaker 01

  They were, they were. And I think, as I said, I think I probably ended, you know, I think like my first couple of dates were too early. So what was quite interesting at the beginning, I think I, I started dating as if it was going to be a relationship. Work there, work versus, versus. So, you know, if I look back on those first dates, it was almost, you know, are they going to be, you know, looking, you know, looking forward to the second date or the third day and, you know, talking about other commitments and things like that. Whereas actually now, and, you know, I talk about this book as well, I think it's far better, you know, to take each date as it comes. And if you have, if you have a great first date, then you'll end up having a second date. You don't get versus going into it thinking, have I

• 34:26Speaker 01

  met the next future Mr. Mr. Lambert or whatever. So, yeah, yeah. So, so, yeah, I think that they, you know, in hindsight, I was probably very scary because I was probably, gosh, far too full on. Yeah. When should we go on holiday? No, I wasn't doing that. But I, you know, it's quite interesting. Yeah. One of those things to learn.

• 34:46Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, I can, I can see that through a woman's, you know, through being married for 30 years. I can see where you would probably go to that very quickly because that's what you know, that, that makes perfect sense to me. Did you have to set some like rules for yourself? Like, I'm not going to kiss him on the first date. I'm not going to sleep with him until we've had, like, do you, is there some protocol for that? Because that's changed in 30 years as well.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I think again, that's so personal and part of, you know, part of the book I do talk about. You know, you know, there's, you know, bizarre questions you have to ask now that you probably didn't ask when you were dating your thirty years ago. This whole thing, are you exclusive or not? You know, so, you know, so, you know, the, the apps enable people to sort of do multiple dating. Whereas I think if you sort of started going on with, you know, somebody and you went on a first or second or a third date, you'd sort of presume that that was your boyfriend in, in those days. Whereas, you know, now you actually have to have a very overt conversation to go, are we, are we, are we exclusive yet? You know, it's, which is, it's a very different thing. I mean, there is a take on the book, because actually when I was talking to people, a couple

• 35:56Speaker 01

  of people about writing it, people were saying, when, when do you get intimate with someone? You know, when, what's the, when's the right time? And it's entirely personal, but I think that work you do at the beginning about what do you want from a relationship, you shouldn't feel pressured into doing anything anybody else's way, you know, whether it's, you know, who you're dating or even girlfriends views of what they do. I think it's so personal and that work you do on yourself first about what's important to you, you know, what, what, you know, what, what are your boundaries are, are, are really important.

• 36:31Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, I could, and, and important for all aspects of your life. You know, I, if you can figure it out before you go into a relationship and apply it in a relationship, you can probably apply it to, to all of your relationships.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, it's the same. I'm sure it's, you know, applying for jobs, you know, it's exactly the same thing.

• 36:48Mindy Pelz?

  Right, right, applying, yeah, applying for jobs.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  I did have an analogy of, you know, in, in, I've actually been made redundant more than once, but being made redundant and having that feeling of sort of rejection and you were used to, you know, I had a full-time career and I went through lots of job interviews and I was chasing every job interview and all the networking opportunities and if somebody said the move's going, I was applying to that. And, and my, there was, I have a fabulous life coach actually, and he, when he, I was doing all of this thing about chasing after jobs and, you know, and too much, that's what I'm saying, too much of my self-esteem was caught up in the role. So I sort of think, you know, I want another role and actually learnt to love myself. It's a really similar analogy and he, you know, of.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  You don't need, you know, finding the right job is better than finding any job and finding the right partner is better than having any partner. And I have a, I had a fabulous life coach, he said to me, he said, you can have dog mind or stick mind, sorry, dog mind or lion mind. And dog mind is you chase after every stick and it's exhausting. A lion sits on the prairie, spots its prey, waits for that and goes for that. And I think whether it's going for jobs or going for dating, I think you need a lion mind, not a dog mind, so.

• 38:05Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, I can, I can imagine. What, did you, did you come up against rejection? I think that would probably be some fear would be not wanting to be rejected.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and yes, I, you know, clearly had, you know, dates that I would have liked to have had another one with and for one reason another went wrong. But again, that self-esteem is really important. You know, I think the, you've got to remember that even if you really like them, however much you throw at them, you know, it's their choice. And that loving yourself first, you have to dig back into that again. They're just not your person, they're just not your person. Um, I've got a big theory as well. If they're not right for you, you're not right for them. So, or vice versa.

• 38:45Mindy Pelz?

  Right. Yeah, it all works. Yeah. Are you currently in a relationship now?

• 38:50Speaker 01

  No, no, I'm still single. So, but happy, yeah, happy and single. Not, I think it's important not, I think it's important, again, maybe this is this thing about, you know, when you talk about our, our brains. I think it's really important not to settle. You know, to go, you know, you could, you know, it could be easy. Well, again, it's probably very personal, but I think I don't want to go for something that I is just about, I'm happy in a relationship and it's somebody to come home to, or I would rather meet someone that, um, complements me rather than completes me. Uh, and it's somebody that share fabulous experiences with, but I don't need them there.

• 39:31Mindy Pelz?

  Right. Well, which would be the perfect way to approach every single relationship. And we should have been approaching it that way when we were in our twenties. Right. And not like, oh, this is a life thing that I check a box on. Or, you know, what do I need to complete me? I think that's the real difference, just in the trajectory of the way the female brain works. Is because we're so conditioned to like, look outside of ourselves. To find happiness and to find worthiness. And then we go through menopause and we start looking within ourselves. Well, a question that a very good friend and I have spent hours and hours and hours discussing because she is divorced. Is what, why would you want to go back into a relationship?

• 40:17Mindy Pelz?

  And what is the benefit of going back into a relationship? When you have a brain that is now geared towards more inter, you know, independence? So I'm curious, I'm curious if, if you could articulate that. Like why, what would be the desire to go back into a relationship?

• 40:36Speaker 01

  It's a very, very fair question. I've established new friendship groups with, you know, actually old and new girlfriends, actually. Which I wish I'd had more of when I was married. I think I, you know, I sacrificed a lot of time with really good girlfriends. And again, it might be an age thing, but actually they, but now it's even more important as well. You know, I think, you know, there's a reason things like, just like that and Four Seasons or, you know, this sort of women power as we're sort of reaching a fabulous ages. How I describe it is when people go, what are you looking for? I mean, I love, I love having experiences planned. I'm always planning adventures into my life. Actually, I saw somebody, I saw the other day that you should have a mega adventure once a year and six million adventures. And I've always got something to look forward to.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  I think it's nice to share those with people or someone close to you. That you can share that experience and, and have joint memories of. I'm doing it with girlfriends, but I guess I'm thinking. I would like a relationship that I could do that as well as, not instead of, but as well as.

• 41:37Mindy Pelz?

  Uh huh. Yeah, it's funny. I, again, studying the menopausal brain for so long now, I have come up with three categories I think women fall or women are looking for in relationships when they enter their post-menopausal years. One of them, I believe, is a relationship with yourself, like you've talked about. And you'll see when Age Like a Girl comes out, I explain exactly why that is, that we can no longer say yes when we mean no. It's just neurologically not hardwired for us. The other one is exactly what you just said, which is a really important one. And I don't, I wish men, I mean, I hope more men are listening to this podcast, but

• 42:20Mindy Pelz?

  our friendships with our girlfriends are magic and they're medicine. And a lot of times, relationships, especially marriages, become blocks to fostering our friendships with, with our, the women in our life that mean the world. And I think it's really interesting that as we get older, women tend to get more connected to their friends and men tend to get more lonely. And yet, that relationship is so important. I hear so many women say that they need their girlfriend time. And then that leaves a third box, which is what you're saying, who am I sharing life with? And, and those, those collective memories

• 43:04Mindy Pelz?

  of doing life together. But what I discovered in talking to my closest friend, who's now been divorced 10 years, and she's 58, and is that she's, wants to go back out there. She's very, you know, open to it, but she doesn't want to give the alone time up. And she doesn't want to give up the friendship. So where does this person fit in? When you're, when you're out dating, I mean, do you have those kind of conversations? Because she and I joke about it. I'm like, what are you going to say on the first date? Like, I want to be with you? I just don't want to be with you all the time.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think there's a, hey, I've worked out a kind of vetting procedure. And I'm sure everybody should as well. I, I, I, I've got a statement that I want to find somebody interested and interesting. And I think.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  Finding someone who's got interest in their own life that A you want to share, but also their own interests, for me is quite important. So that

• 44:07Mindy Pelz?

  Yes.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  You value each other's independence as much as you value time together. And that makes you interested and interesting as well, because you know, you've brought conversations we had. The other interesting topic as well, though, with with age, and I don't know, again, if any of your friends have this, there is a well, there's a weird presumption that over sixty and that, you know, it's a reason again to find someone is you don't want any intimacy. And there is, it it's, you know, on one hand, you've got all of these, I'm going to say twenty five to forty five year olds thinking you're going to be this fabulous older lady to date. And then on the other hand, you've got gentlemen, probably more your own age, asking in a very coded way, have you still got your mojo? Which basically means

• 44:51Mindy Pelz?

  Oh.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yes.

• 44:57Mindy Pelz?

  I'm I'm like embarrassed for them.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  Oh dear. Well, it's trying to, yeah. So so that's the it's it's fascinating, really, that, yeah, you're navigating all of those sort of questions as well.

• 45:09Mindy Pelz?

  I can tell I what's the weirdest date you've been on? I can totally see why you wrote a book. It's the adventures alone have to be interesting.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Um, oh, I I dated a chap, I think three, I think we've about three dates, and I hadn't heard the expression for, but my friend told me it's called errand dating. So every date we went on, he tied it into a task that he needed to do.

• 45:32Mindy Pelz?

  What?

• 45:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. So so one day was, you have Costco in America, don't you?

• 45:38Mindy Pelz?

  Yes.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. One day was, he said, oh, you know, have you ever been to a Costco? And I said, no. So he took on a date to Costco because he needed to go. And then another day, he he deals with, he buys furniture on Facebook Marketplace. And he said, oh, I'm over your way. Shall we meet there? Because then you can help me get this furniture into the car.

• 46:00Mindy Pelz?

  With, Dange, did you go on before you like?

• 46:03Speaker 01

  It was three. I, I, yeah, I think when the third date involved third watching, that's when, that's when it was kind of, it was over.

• 46:13Mindy Pelz?

  Hysterical. I think I would have, I hate Costco, so I probably would have been out at the Costco date.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 46:20Mindy Pelz?

  That's insane.

• 46:21Speaker 01

  No, it's a, it's a thing. Errand dating.

• 46:24Mindy Pelz?

  Errand dating, the things you learn. Talk, talk really a little bit about what people can find in this book, because one of the reasons I am excited to have this conversation with you is my audience is forty-five to sixty-five is the mid-bulk of who listens to this podcast, and women, mostly, and a lot of transition, lot of things going through their head, a lot of women trying to decide if they're going to leave marriages, trying to decide if they're going to stay and repair marriages, not knowing what the other side looks like. What, what can we find in this book that can guide women through firmly standing in that next place

• 47:05Mindy Pelz?

  with their relationships? And what advice would you give women right now who are really contemplating going back out there? I love the way you've stepped this, but what, what would you, if there's a lot of fear, I have a, a good friend who has a really wants to go out into the world and date, but is really scared. So what, what kind of advice would you give there?

• 47:27Speaker 01

  Well, as I said, I, when I started doing it, I just thought I could be a fabulous guinea pig for this, because I said it was all new to me. And I didn't expect to be in this position. You know, at fifty-nine, I didn't expect to be here, and you know, at sixty, I was. And so it was, you know, there, there is an element, it, you know, you go slightly through the sort of grief, you know, the grief curve of, you know, so, you know, there's a, you're going through the sort of shock of it all. I do think that exercise, and actually irrespective of loving yourself first, you could read the first chapter of it, irrespective of your personal situation, because the first chapter is about this, you know, finding self-appreciation, self-love, dating yourself first, and getting yourself in a fabulous, strong position, almost overcome those fears.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  That, that is, actually, if you didn't find someone, it's okay to be on your own.

• 48:18Mindy Pelz?

  Right, so it's almost like you're neutral.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 48:22Mindy Pelz?

  You're detached.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So.

• 48:24Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  More than that, you're in love with yourself, I think is a good place to be, yeah. So.

• 48:29Mindy Pelz?

  Oh, I love that idea.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then I think the, you know, you know, all the, you know, I'd never filled in a dating profile. So, you know, there was all, you know, all the tips on doing that and what photos to put on and.

• 48:43Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah. Do you put a, do you put, I just have to know, do you put a real photo? Do you put a?

• 48:48Speaker 01

  Well, is that photo? No, it's interesting. I, I put, I, I put real photos on and it, and smiling photos. I mean, it's quite interesting because I have, you know, clearly I've talked to guys about this as well. And they are, they are, you know, I think I do the, the do's and the don'ts. And the don'ts were, don't put filtered photos on because the minute you turn up, you've already.

• 49:13Mindy Pelz?

  You're done.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're done. There's a lot of people who put very old photos, so whether they aged or changed size. You know, there's a lot of people don't put smiling photos on, a lot of people wear sunglasses. I'm not, you know, there is a little, yeah, there's, there's plenty of bad photos of men, I should say as well. But they've noticed their feedback on ladies photos as well. And, and don't put photos of yourself in groups of people so they can't spot who you are. So, so there's, you know, there's, there's tips on the photos, but also not just from my perspective. This, this is actually what guys have said about photos as well. So, so there's that. And then, as I said, there's, you know, there's, I've done, you know, tests of all the, well, six different dating apps. How to, you know, how do you engage in a conversation and, you know, sift the weeds out from the chat?

• 49:55Speaker 01

  And spot the, spot the odd characters that come, that will come up and maybe the questions that you need to ask. What do you wear on a first date?

• 50:03Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Cause you were into fashion. How do you?

• 50:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 50:06Mindy Pelz?

  Decide what to wear?

• 50:07Speaker 01

  Well, I've got, I found out I've got a, a work wardrobe and I've got, I've used to know, doing lots of black tie events, black tie events and lots of gym kit, funny enough. And I was thinking, what on earth do I wear? What on earth do I wear going on a date? But first and foremost, I think it's got to be something you feel confident in, you know, because that's the thing that, you know, you don't want to sit there feeling like it's too tight or too short or too loose, you know, or too low cut or something. It's got to be something you feel comfortable in and feel fabulous in. So that's, you know, you're going to radiate that then. And then I did, there is actually some, I collated some stories as well from friends who met people outside of dating apps. So there obviously is.

• 50:43Mindy Pelz?

  Yes, yes.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  Actually, two thirds of relationships do come from outside of dating apps. So there is, there is a world out there. There is a world out there. Um, and, but I think you just, one of the biggest things is not to take it too seriously. If you, if you took every rejection or every bad day as a, as a, you know, I'm not, I'm never going to do this again. You've, you've just got to enjoy that, enjoy the journey really, rather than taking it too seriously and yourself too seriously and not view it as, you know, view it as a date at a time, rather than this desperation that you've got to find another relationship. As I said, you know, it's, I think my last line in the book is actually, you know, writing this, I am still single, but actually I am the best date I'm ever going to have.

• 51:25Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah. And that's the way, we should, again, we should have known that at 20. Like, what, how awesome would that, that would have been. So I just, I just love that. What kids think of this whole dating thing?

• 51:38Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness me. Yeah. Yeah. It's slightly hard. It's slightly hard. But ultimately, I just want you to be happy. So yeah, I think they've got over probably the initial shock of it. And so.

• 51:49Mindy Pelz?

  So do you, do you tell, do you talk to them about who you're dating and the dates you went on?

• 51:54Speaker 01

  My daughter, a little bit, actually. I'm very lucky. My daughter's 32. She's my best friend as well. So with it, yes, within reason, I, I, I'll bounce stuff off her if I've met someone nice. She's one of the first ones to see the photos. So.

• 52:05Mindy Pelz?

  Instead of coming home to meet your parents, you got to bring them home to meet your children.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  I know. It is quite funny because it's a bit of a role reversal. She's coming, I used to go, you're definitely coming back though, aren't you? I'm going, yes, of course I am.

• 52:20Mindy Pelz?

  Oh my gosh. I just love this. I love this. Well, what a necessary book. I mean, there is so much in the zeitgeist right now about women making the decision to be independent when they go into their sixties. I think whether women stay married or not, there's also conversations. I'd love Esther Perel statement. I don't know if you've followed her work, but she said you'll be, most people will fall in love in their adult life. They'll fall in love two to three times. And for some people that will be with the same person and for some people that will be different people. And I think there's a lot of pressure for us to, when we get married in our twenties,

• 53:05Mindy Pelz?

  like, there's no way we can be the same person in our fifties and sixties. And there's a lot of pressure on the container of marriage to hold together despite the fact that you're a completely different person. So I, I think what you're bringing forward as far as helping women navigate that is, is really important.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:28Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, and I, and I think.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  I've never heard the term silver, silver splitters before. Have you heard that term? So that's.

• 53:34Mindy Pelz?

  Oh, no, tell me, tell me, what does it mean?

• 53:35Speaker 01

  No, that's what it means is everybody's splitting up in most of their fifties and sixties with a silver splitters.

• 53:41Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, I heard of the gray divorce is what I've heard too. So, and, and.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  Oh. Yeah. Is that better now? Yep, just knocked it.

• 53:56Mindy Pelz?

  I think it's, again, this is why I wrote the book that I wrote, and it'll, it'll be out in December, because there is, when you look at it from the hormonal changes causing a massive neurochemical shift in the brain, causing your brain to operate different. I don't understand how we just slid into our post-menopausal years without discussions like this. And what I think is so beautiful about where the world is now is more women like you are standing up and saying, that didn't work, I'm gonna reconnect to myself, and now I'm gonna find a new version of me in a new relationship. And there's so much to discover.

• 54:40Mindy Pelz?

  Do you ever, do you ever think about who you would be right now if you hadn't left your marriage?

• 54:46Speaker 01

  Gosh, I, I certainly wouldn't be doing anything that I'm doing now. I don't think. I don't think I'd be an author. I, you know, I've ended up being a, you know, a content creator. You know, I've got a sort of, you know, not striving for own Instagram account. I've got an Instagram account that's growing. And I think it is because I'm authentic and out there going, you can have fun and you can be single and you can wear clothes that some people will deem as inappropriate, but I'm enjoying my clothes and keeping fit. And I don't think I would be doing any of that because it would have been too much. It would have been too much. So I'm, I'm out there. As a friend said, you're never too much. You're just right. So I'm out there making sure.

• 55:27Mindy Pelz?

  Amazing. Amazing. I love that attitude. Where do, how, where do people find you? How do they find your book? You might have, you might end up after this podcast, you might get a whole like support group of women that are going to come follow you and band together with you.

• 55:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I'm, I'm on Instagram on Fiona Lambert official and the book is on Amazon and other, it's on other websites, but on in the U S. I know it's, you'll find it there. And it is called S A F sixty and single. Your survival guide to dating. So it'll be available from July the eighth. It's published on July the eighth, but available for pre-order.

• 56:07Mindy Pelz?

  Amazing. Amazing. Well, thank you for writing this book. I can't wait to tell my friends who are single right now about it. Because I've sat and listened to so many of those conversations that they have been really, and my favorite one was my, one of my closest friends says to me, I just need to go where they grow good men. Do you know where they go to grow good men? And I'm like, I don't know, but I'll ask the good men where you go to get to grow good men. So if now I'm going to say, oh, I don't know, but I, here's a book and the book can show you.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  Perfect. I love that. You'll have to get definitely and let me know where some things are there.

• 56:45Mindy Pelz?

  I will, I will. So thank you Fiona and best of luck to you and the book. And you're, you're going to have to come back when you, if you get remarried, if you find a long-term relationship.

• 56:56Speaker 01

  First one to hear. You'll be the first one to hear.

• 57:00Mindy Pelz?

  I hear social all of a sudden became a lot more interesting to me.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:04Mindy Pelz?

  I want to see what happens to Fiona.

• 57:06Speaker 01

  Oh, I am sharing funny stories at the moment about the types of approaches. So yeah, it's an interesting watch on my Instagram at the moment.

• 57:14Mindy Pelz?

  Amazing, amazing. Well, best of luck to you and everybody go grab Fiona's book and we'll report, we'll, we'll have you back when the story evolves into something even different.

• 57:24Speaker 01

  So I love it.

• 57:24Mindy Pelz?

  Appreciate you.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  Thanks a lot.

• 57:26Mindy Pelz?

  My pleasure. Thank you so much for joining me in today's episode. I love bringing thoughtful discussions about all things health to you. If you enjoyed it, we'd love to know about it. So please leave us a review, share it with your friends and let me know what your biggest takeaway is.