Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships

Are you hitting a wall in your relationships? Are you still looking for “the one”? It is our relationships that determine our happiness in life and reflect back our relationship with ourselves. That essential truth is the core belief of renowned relationship coach Jillian Turecki, Oprah's guest on this episode of "The Oprah Podcast." Jillian’s insightful, no-nonsense relationship advice is on this episode as she breaks down her new book, "It Begins with You: The 9 Hard Truths About Love That Will Change Your Life." She also shares her revelations as a relationship coach and from hosting over 150 episodes on her hit podcast, "Jillian on Love." Jillian also opens up about her often contentious relationship with her father, famed psychologist Dr. Stanley Turecki, whose groundbreaking book, "The Difficult Child," was somewhat based on his experience with Jillian as a child. Finally, Oprah and Jillian take questions from people looking to foster more love and connection in their lives. BUY THE BOOK! "It Begins with You: The 9 Hard Truths About Love That Will Change Your Life" by Jillian Turecki, published by HarperOne, is available wherever books are sold: https://amzn.to/4wuaMRz Jillian on Love: ⁠https://lnk.to/jillianonlove https://lnk.to/jillianonlove Subscribe: ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@Oprah⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@Oprah Follow Oprah Winfrey on Social: https://www.instagram.com/oprah/ https://www.facebook.com/oprahwinfrey/ Listen to the full podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/0tEVrfNp92a7lbjDe6GMLI https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-oprah-podcast/id1782960381

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 0:46Oprah Winfrey?

  Hi there. So glad to be with you here on the Oprah Podcast. This is where we are having conversations around ideas that I certainly hope are going to make your life better, more enhanced. And maybe you'll see yourself in my guests or hear something that sparks a new way of thinking about something that you're struggling with. You'll have an aha to remind you of what you know and what your true wisdom has always been. My guest today says, "Our relationships determine our happiness in life." Well, isn't that just the truth? And if you're like me, if my relationships are out of whack or not in a good place, then everything else is off kilter.

• 1:30Oprah Winfrey?

  Like when you have an argument with somebody who's close to you and you love, it throws everything else off. And there is no happiness without first taking care of our relationships. And so I'm so happy that Jillian Turecki, who is a certified relationship coach, a teacher and host of the hit podcast Jillian on Love. Almost 3 million of you are following her advice on Instagram. Well, Jillian. Wrote a book, her very first book called, It Begins With You: The Nine Hard Truths About Love That Will Change Your Life. So, welcome to the Tea House.

• 2:07Speaker 03

  Thank you for having me. Every relationship we've ever had will reflect back to us the relationship we have with ourselves. Period. End of story.

• 2:17Oprah Winfrey?

  Jillian Turecki is a rising star in relationship advice.

• 2:20Speaker 03

  And it is not your job to try to convince someone to be ready for you or to choose you.

• 2:28Oprah Winfrey?

  Her smart, no-nonsense guidance is resonating with a growing loyal audience.

• 2:32Speaker 03

  Some relationships don't work out because you both were too immature to make it work out.

• 2:37Oprah Winfrey?

  Her book, It Begins With You, was an instant New York Times bestseller. Her hit podcast, Jillian on Love, is being called one of the best relationship podcasts. And she is the daughter of renowned psychiatrist Dr. Stanley Turecki, whose 1985 book, The Difficult Child, was once considered the definitive work on dealing with what were then called hard-to-raise children. And you write on page 214, "I was a highly sensitive child who felt his darkness so intensely, it disturbed me."

• 3:08Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 3:09Oprah Winfrey?

  Did you and your father ever find peace? So many people have been telling me to have Jillian on my podcast.

• 3:15Speaker 03

  I'm just terrified of not being enough. The fear of pain is making you push away good men. I want you to make a deeper connection. And sometimes that deep connection doesn't come on the first date.

• 3:29Oprah Winfrey?

  If you're ready to find out how all your relationships begin with you, this is your episode.

• 3:34Speaker 04

  Just go for it. Yeah, go for it.

• 3:41Oprah Winfrey?

  I see that you are in a moment. Do you feel that moment for yourself?

• 3:45Speaker 03

  I do. Absolutely feel like I'm in a moment.

• 3:47Oprah Winfrey?

  I call it a moment of rising. Because someone mentioned you to me. Have I seen your new book? And then someone else mentioned your name. And then my niece Krishonda sent me a video. And so I'm thinking, and this is all within a period of two or three days. So I'm thinking, okay. That's the magic of three. Let's call Jillian. And then I find out that we have this longtime connection that I didn't even know about. So how are you navigating the rise?

• 4:20Speaker 03

  I'm navigating it, you know, it's a wild ride. It's a wild ride.

• 4:25Oprah Winfrey?

  It's exactly that.

• 4:26Speaker 03

  I navigate it by staying grounded through my yoga practice, through meditation, and through just trying to stay as present as I can.

• 4:36Oprah Winfrey?

  Mm-hmm. I think that's the key for all things, really. So I want to start at the beginning of the book. I mean, whoa, did you have a wham-dam-doozle of a beginning of a book?

• 4:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:47Oprah Winfrey?

  You say that on June 2nd, 2014, my life fell apart. My mother had recently been diagnosed with terminal cancer, you say?

• 4:59Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 4:59Oprah Winfrey?

  And given three months to live. And you say, "That morning, I suffered my third miscarriage, and my husband left me. He broke up with me over the phone."

• 5:13Speaker 03

  I woke up that morning, and it was a very early pregnancy. And I woke up that morning to bleeding, and it occurred to me that what was happening.

• 5:22Oprah Winfrey?

  You were having a miscarriage?

• 5:23Speaker 03

  Yes. And he was already at work, because he had to go to work really early. And I called him, and I said, "I have to go to the gynecologist just to get blood work to make sure that this is what's happening."

• 5:35Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 5:35Speaker 03

  "Can you come with me? Can you meet me there?" And he said, "No, I'm really busy at work." And I said, "Okay." So I went by myself. And this was something I had to do by myself before.

• 5:46Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 5:46Speaker 03

  And then it was confirmed. And so I came home, and I text him saying, "What time you're going to be home tonight?" And he said, "I'm going to stay at my parents." And I said, and I knew in my bones, in my body, that he was fleeing. And I said, "Well, what do you mean?" And then I called him. And what ensued was a conversation where he was basically telling me that we are on two different paths. And I was, I went a little hysterical because I thought, you know, you can't do this, this way. You can't do it like this. That's very wrong.

• 6:30Speaker 03

  I kept saying to him, it's not the right thing to do and you're going to regret it.

• 6:33Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  And you're going to, and you're the one who's going to have to live with that for the rest of your life. But he did, he never, yes, did we see each other again? For sure. But did he ever come home again? Never again.

• 6:46Oprah Winfrey?

  Wow. And you felt what?

• 6:49Speaker 03

  Devastation.

• 6:50Oprah Winfrey?

  Devastation.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:51Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 6:52Speaker 03

  Devastation. I thought, I remember having this thought, oh, this is what it means when someone says that their world has completely fallen apart. This is what it means when everything falls apart.

• 7:03Oprah Winfrey?

  Your mom's been given three months to live with terminal cancer. You've had your third miscarriage and your husband says, I'm not coming home.

• 7:09Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 7:10Oprah Winfrey?

  And it's just not working out for me. Had you sensed that it wasn't working?

• 7:14Speaker 03

  We had problems. I always said that before we got married, our relationship was about 90% great and 10% very problematic. Now, you could say, well, that's a pretty good stat. But the 10% that was problematic was profoundly problematic. The things that I, today, I would never ignore. So, people think that when they get married, their problems are going to go away, but...

• 7:39Oprah Winfrey?

  That the marriage is going to heal that thing?

• 7:40Speaker 03

  The marriage is going to heal it. No, the marriage only, only shines a light on what's...

• 7:45Oprah Winfrey?

  Puts a big magnifying glass on it.

• 7:47Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 7:47Oprah Winfrey?

  That's what it does.

• 7:48Speaker 03

  So then the 10% became the 90% and the 90% became the 10%. So our marriage was very problematic, somewhat focused around the fact that I wanted to wait to have children, he wanted children right away. We didn't have those important conversations. And he started to do this thing where if he were upset with me, he would completely withdraw and completely shut down, which was a humongous trigger for me. And he did it a little bit before we got married. And there was something very significant that happened before we married where he pulled away and I didn't handle it in a way that I would have handled it today.

• 8:28Oprah Winfrey?

  That if you had been more mature or wizened?

• 8:31Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 8:32Oprah Winfrey?

  You would have said, uh-uh.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 8:34Oprah Winfrey?

  Not me.

• 8:35Speaker 03

  Not me. Or more courageous and more sure of myself.

• 8:41Oprah Winfrey?

  And so you picked yourself off the floor. You were devastated.

• 8:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:47Oprah Winfrey?

  And how long after that moment were you able to start to rebuild?

• 8:53Speaker 03

  Well, when that happened, I became obsessed with two things. One, how am I going to get myself out of this hole? How am I going to get myself off the ground?

• 9:03Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 9:04Speaker 03

  And two, what makes a relationship work? Because I could not believe, I mean, now, looking back, I can understand it. But at the time, I could not believe that I was 40 and getting a divorce or separated.

• 9:20Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 9:21Speaker 03

  And that this was my destiny. That's how I thought of it.

• 9:24Oprah Winfrey?

  That's not the narrative you had written for yourself.

• 9:26Speaker 03

  And I could not believe that I was in this position. I had been a yogi for many years. I considered myself to be mature. I considered myself to be self-aware. And so it was shocking to me. And I thought, I need to figure this out. I must figure this out. And it became an obsession.

• 9:44Oprah Winfrey?

  Oh, so let's talk about your father for a moment. Famed psychiatrist, Dr. Stanley Turecki. I remember him. In 1985, he wrote a bestselling book called The Difficult Child. And I remember having him on the Oprah Show a couple of times. And people really loving his advice because the advice was all about how to handle the difficult child. And part of that, and part of that theory was it's not your fault if you have a difficult child. Children are just born that way.

• 10:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:17Oprah Winfrey?

  And these are the things you need to do.

• 10:19Speaker 04

  Now, isn't part of the problem that parents want their children to conform to whatever their needs are at the moment?

• 10:25Speaker 05

  That is part of the problem. And if you have one of these children of the kind that I described, they almost always are highly individualistic, very interesting, and they don't give in easily. And so you can have a lot of power struggles between a parent who says this is the way it should be and the child who simply will not give up on their own preferences.

• 10:45Oprah Winfrey?

  What was the premise of that book in your mind?

• 10:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, that children are born with a, we're all born with a specific genetic makeup.

• 10:54Oprah Winfrey?

  Right.

• 10:54Speaker 03

  That gives, that makes it so that we have a proclivity towards a certain. Personality or certain, he wouldn't, he didn't use this word, but like a certain nervous system, a certain way of being. And that you might have this difficult child.

• 11:11Oprah Winfrey?

  That is just their nature.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  And that is just their nature. And so if you are struggling, here's the compassion. You know, it's not you, it's not your fault. You didn't create this. And here are the tools on how to create more peace in your family life, because the difficult child is definitely disrupting.

• 11:29Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, so here's our connection. It turns out you were the difficult child he was talking about in the title. How did that label impact you?

• 11:37Speaker 03

  Well, hugely because he mentioned me in the book. And the new addition, he took that out for my request. So of course, as a young child, I was like, I'm famous. This is amazing. I felt significant. I felt like a book is being written about me. This is amazing.

• 11:54Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 11:54Speaker 03

  And then as I started to get older, I realized, wow, this label is like a heavy bag that's resting on my shoulders that I can't get off. It follows me wherever I go. And so if I-

• 12:08Oprah Winfrey?

  But he did say you were funny and you had other personality traits that were-

• 12:11Speaker 03

  Absolutely. He said, and that, and that, once I became a certain age, I grew out of it. I grew out of it, so all is not lost. So I, yes, but it was all part of this, this, he called it a syndrome. The difficult child syndrome. So the difficult children can also be incredibly creative. They can have good, a lot of them can have good social skills. You know, these are not the children who need to be hospitalized for behavioral stuff. They kind of teeter that line. And I just, every time I made a mistake or every time I was very sensitive to something, because that really is what a difficult, quote unquote, difficult child is.

• 12:55Speaker 03

  I do believe that we have certain nervous systems that we are born into for, and that can start in the womb. And some people are just more sensitive than others. And so when you're a child and you have a high degree of sensitivity, you don't know and you don't have the emotional regulation skills. The only emotional regulation skills you're learning are those of mom and dad.

• 13:18Oprah Winfrey?

  That's right.

• 13:19Speaker 03

  And my parents had a terrible marriage.

• 13:22Oprah Winfrey?

  And you write on page 214, "I was a highly sensitive child who felt his darkness so intensely, it disturbed me."

• 13:30Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 13:31Oprah Winfrey?

  And you're talking about your own father. What was the dynamic between you and your father?

• 13:36Speaker 03

  My father was a very complicated man. He struggled a lot with bipolar, a very severe form of bipolar that was not diagnosed when I was a child.

• 13:47Oprah Winfrey?

  So you didn't know it was bipolar?

• 13:48Speaker 03

  No, nor did he.

• 13:50Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes, and so you just have all these mood swings that you can't predict, right?

• 13:53Speaker 03

  That you can't predict.

• 13:54Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes. And so that made what kind of a relationship for the two of you?

• 13:58Speaker 03

  So I felt his moods very intensely, and he scared me. He never laid a hand on me. But his energy was very dark and very unpredictable because I saw more of the serious depressive side. And he was a psychiatrist, so he was very brilliant. So he had a very analytical mind. And he was never present. He was always in his head. And so I would pick up on the tension that he had in his body. And then he was unavailable. Like, you couldn't ever really reach him. Yeah.

• 14:31Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, and if you're a kid, you're going to blame that on yourself.

• 14:33Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 14:34Oprah Winfrey?

  That like, he's never... As a child, you don't have the language to explain, oh, this is a bipolar thing that's happening, and he's never present. He's not present with anybody.

• 14:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 14:44Oprah Winfrey?

  You're thinking, the reason why he feels so distant and removed and shut down is because of me.

• 14:49Speaker 03

  Yes, something I'm doing wrong.

• 14:50Oprah Winfrey?

  And you write on page 138, "Inside all of us is a child who desperately yearns to be loved by a partner the way a parent would ideally love us, and that is unconditionally." And that's what every relationship is actually seeking. Did you and your father ever find peace?

• 15:10Speaker 03

  I found some peace with him before he passed away. I had to wake up one day because I decided to be estranged from him. One day, I decided to stop returning his calls. And I thought, if I just never spoke to him again, that I would be OK, that that would be the solution. To whatever suffering I was feeling. And the reality is it didn't solve anything because it's just, it's the ultimate form of avoidance.

• 15:36Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 15:36Speaker 03

  I just pushed it down and pretended like he didn't exist. And then only years later, the joke's on me. No, no, no, he exists. And actually, the monster grows because the more you avoid, the more it actually lives inside you and controls you.

• 15:50Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 15:52Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 15:53Oprah Winfrey?

  For sure. Well, I appreciate you so much, spending your very valuable time with us today. I know your life is busy, so taking this time to learn something new or pausing to listen to a conversation means a lot to me. Coming up, Gillian's advice for divorced mom who says she's terrified of ever getting married again. Plus, a professional mountain climber looking to conquer his fear of intimacy.

• 16:16Speaker 06

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• 16:46Oprah Winfrey?

  Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. I'm here with relationship coach Gillian Turecki, the host of the hit podcast, Gillian on Love. We're talking about her new instant bestselling book, It Begins With You: The Nine Hard Truths About Love That Will Change Your Life. So Gillian, the question is, how did your experience or life experience, your relationship with your father, your relationship with your husband leaving you, lead you to this moment of wisdom that is resonating especially with women?

• 17:18Speaker 03

  So as I said, I became obsessed. And so with figuring out what makes a relationship work. And so I worked with coaches, I worked with, I have mentors that I've had really since then. And I put my entire life into understanding relationships and the concept of love. And I always felt there was something, because I had been a yoga teacher for many years, and I always felt like there was something more for me. And I didn't know what it was, and then I discovered it was this. And I said, you know, this is what I'm going to do. This is, I'm going to teach people about love and about relationships. And I'm going to continue to teach people how to fortify the relationship with themselves,

• 18:00Speaker 03

  not just through yoga, but actually in the way that they think, particularly in their relationships.

• 18:05Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, and that's where It Begins With You came from.

• 18:08Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 18:08Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, and so I love this idea that you express it on page 138. Let me share it with you all again. Inside all of us is a child who desperately yearns to be loved by a partner the way a parent would ideally love us, and that is unconditionally. And just before we started our conversation that you all are seeing, when we were getting mic'd up here, I asked Gillian if she was familiar with another world-known therapist named Harville Hendrix, wrote a book called Getting the Love You Want. And that book redefined for me what having a relationship or being in a relationship was. Because in 1988, on The Oprah Show, he said, "Every relationship that you're seeking,

• 18:54Oprah Winfrey?

  you're seeking to heal the relationship that you had with your parents, the dominant parent or guardian in your life. And that the people that show up in your life, in your personal relationships, are there as triggers, as, you know, resources, as reminders for what you got and also for what you didn't get."

• 19:21Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 19:22Speaker 07

  In childhood, there are certain nurturing needs that are not satisfied in the best of families and by the best of parents.

• 19:31Oprah Winfrey?

  So, I mean, that is what... Really saved my relationship, actually. It changed the way I operated in my relationship with Stedman and in all of my relationships, recognizing that people come from that. Everybody's just trying to heal and find a way to be loved unconditionally. And your partner always represents some part of what didn't get healed.

• 19:54Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 19:54Oprah Winfrey?

  So your husband represented whom for you?

• 19:57Speaker 03

  My husband represented my father. And here's the interesting thing. They couldn't, they looked totally different. Their personalities were wildly different. So their energy was different, but my husband would shut down. He, I felt it's the familiar, it's how I felt in my body was so familiar. I didn't even recognize it.

• 20:21Oprah Winfrey?

  That's right.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  Which is, oh, he's in that mood. Maybe it's me. And then that tension that comes from believing that your partner is pulling away from you and you are the reason. And so you're constantly questioning in some way unconsciously, your lovability, because this person is pulling away. And that was something that I felt all the time.

• 20:47Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, and I think that that is also a really good advice for people who are in relationships that are challenged, is to ask yourself, where have I had this feeling before?

• 20:59Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 20:59Oprah Winfrey?

  Because it isn't about what they look like. It isn't about, you know, any of that. Because in the beginning, I thought, oh, Stedman's here representing my father. You know, my father is an honorable man, you know, loyal, all those things. And it was later on that I recognized, oh, it isn't even about my father. It's about healing the wounds with my mother. So, because every time there would be any kind of conflict, I think, where have I felt this before?

• 21:26Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 21:26Oprah Winfrey?

  Where have I felt this before? So we know millions of women are seeking your advice. And we have Mary Ann joining us on Zoom. Mary Ann, I hear you're a divorced mom. Three children from Massachusetts who says you're terrified to get married again. So let's talk about it.

• 21:44Speaker 08

  I am. Well, hello, Debo. Thanks so much for having me on. A little bit about me, I was married for nine years and then I already had had two children by the time I was in my late twenties. And between working full time and being a mother, by the time I got home and got them to bed, I felt so depleted and like a shell of my old self that the only time I felt like I could rebuild was when I went to bed. And I didn't want my husband or anybody to touch me. And as you can imagine, over time, that built up a lot of resentment. And then also that led to some betrayal and about a million regrets and things that I would do so differently now that I'm going to be 47.

• 22:28Speaker 08

  And that brings me to now. I've been divorced 12 years. And it's every first date I go on, before I even meet you or even on the first date, I say, I never want to get married again. And if that's what you're looking for, I'm not your girl. And I have been blessed during those 12 years to have had a couple of very wonderful men for long-term relationships with them. But the same thing is rung true. I just never feel like I'm enough. And I feel like my past holds me back and I just have trouble letting them in. I basically have like unconsciously destroyed those two great relationships that I've had since I was divorced. And I'd really love to know what I could do differently so I can have a more successful relationship.

• 23:14Speaker 03

  Okay. You know, when I reflect on my marriage that ended many years ago,

• 23:23Speaker 03

  and I had to reflect on it a lot, I realized there were a lot of things, even though I could blame him for a lot of things and actually be valid, there were things that I recognized that, wow, if I did it all over again, I would do so many things differently. And I can think back to other parts of my life where I've made really grave mistakes, where I perhaps acted out of character, did things that I didn't want to do. And I, and someone once told me, and I wish I could remember, I wish I could say it was my mom. I don't think it was. But I was told many years ago that there's no such thing as failure. There's just lessons. And that

• 24:04Speaker 08

  A lot of lessons.

• 24:05Speaker 03

  A lot of lessons. And the thing is, the story that you keep replaying in your mind about your marriage and what the things that you wish you had done differently, or the mistakes that you made, or the mistakes that he made. At this point, it's really a story. Because we can't remember everything that happened back then. We're just giving it a meaning. So it's not that the story isn't true, but you're giving it a meaning, which is I failed. I don't know. I'm a failure. I can't be trusted. If I get married again, I'm going to have pain again. Do these all ring true to you?

• 24:46Speaker 08

  The pain.

• 24:47Speaker 03

  The pain.

• 24:47Speaker 08

  I am terrified of being. I didn't think I could hurt that badly. And my last long-term relationship felt like another divorce. And I'm going to tell you, it took me over two years to get over that relationship. And I just never want to feel pain like that. I, I

• 25:04Speaker 03

  Right. And I understand that. I understand that. And but the fear of pain is making you push away good men.

• 25:13Speaker 08

  Yes.

• 25:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 25:14Speaker 08

  I have learned that the very hard way the last two years.

• 25:17Speaker 03

  Yes. So can you forgive yourself?

• 25:20Speaker 08

  I'm trying to do different this year to have a, I'm trying to be different this year, to have a different outcome. And I'm trying very hard to let the walls down. I'm just terrified of not being enough. And I don't, I don't know how to get over that. I'm just so terrified of feeling crushed again and, and let down.

• 25:46Speaker 03

  Well, but you both let each other down in many ways, right? In your marriage? I mean, isn't that, that's typically what happens in a marriage is that we all make mistakes. I mean, it's not that it's a 50/50 split, but it was, it was a marriage. It didn't work out. And now you have an opportunity to love again. The greatest gift you can give your children is to live your life and to be happy. Now, of course, you can't be happy all the time. But the greatest gift you can give them is to just live your life. There is no version of love that does not come with it, the risk of a broken heart.

• 26:27Speaker 03

  But we decide to take that risk because nothing meaningful in life comes without risk. And you have to now start to trust yourself that whatever doesn't work out, you can handle. And that when you are in a relationship and you're starting to notice, oh, I'm doing that thing again, where I'm pushing them away, I'm sabotaging. You have now an opportunity to say to yourself, oh, I'm doing that thing again. I'm not going to do that. And you can even talk about it with your partner, like, I have this pattern that I do, and I don't want to do that. Can we talk about it? You know, I bet that you know exactly what it is that you do when you are about to sabotage a relationship. You have a habit. That's true.

• 27:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. I do. We all do. I don't know what your method is. Maybe you start fights. I don't know what it is. But you have this thing. I just pull back. You just pull back. Yeah.

• 27:21Oprah Winfrey?

  You pull back and you shut down. And you pull back and you shut down.

• 27:24Speaker 03

  And then your partner is, and what's wrong?

• 27:26Oprah Winfrey?

  What's wrong? What's wrong? And you're saying, nothing, nothing, nothing.

• 27:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's exactly what I do.

• 27:33Oprah Winfrey?

  Well, you know what? I would say, ask and it shall be given, the Bible says. And I would say that the fact that you're at the realization now, where you have actually said out loud to us and all the people who are listening and watching, that you don't want this anymore. You see this about yourself? You have chosen this path all these years. And now you are saying, I want to choose differently. And just the desire to do that and the openness and awareness of, again, how Gillian says, recognizing how you begin to sabotage yourself and being vulnerable enough,

• 28:15Oprah Winfrey?

  open enough with somebody to say, look, in the past, I've had this problem. And this has been an issue for me and I'm trying to relearn in this new phase of my life. And you don't start the relationship with, oh, I'm not gonna get married if that's what you think. You know, you just, you just allow yourself at 46, soon to be 47, to open up to the rising of your life. This is an opportunity to begin anew. So all the old ways of being and all the stuff that you now have learned about yourself, the rising is waiting for you to meet the rising. Come on up to the rising. Come on up to the rising.

• 28:59Speaker 08

  I feel this is the year. I, I feel like I'm growing and I'm more aware. And I just feel like it's my time. I can't put, I can't, I'm having trouble describing it, but I just feel like this is my year.

• 29:11Oprah Winfrey?

  You're describing it very well. And you have to know that in the process of being human and meeting the rising of your life, we all make mistakes. It's not about perfection. It's not about some idea or story you told yourself in your head of what it's supposed to look like. It's supposed to look like exactly what it looks like. And you meet it where it is. And you are woman enough to do that. You have learned enough.

• 29:37Speaker 08

  I am, I am. I'm ready.

• 29:39Oprah Winfrey?

  You are woman enough to do that. You have, you have learned enough and you've grown enough. And you are aware enough of yourself in this moment, whether you feel enough. Or not, you are enough to meet this moment, and then enough to meet the next moment, and then to meet the next moment. It is not about some big grand scheme. It's about being present in every moment, experience and decision. And you have already done that. You've proven that with raising three great boys. And as you continue to do that, so now you're ready to create this time for yourself. Yes. That's what I hear Jillian saying. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Go for it. I really do. Go for it. Mary Ann, go for it.

• 30:25Oprah Winfrey?

  Thank you. Thank you both. Thank you. It begins with you. Thank you. Next up is John from Colorado, who we saw on the Zoom, was nodding along with what Mary Ann was telling us. John, hey, what's your question?

• 30:41Speaker 09

  Hi there, Oprah. Hey there, Jillian.

• 30:43Oprah Winfrey?

  Hey.

• 30:43Speaker 09

  Hey, Jillian, I've been reading your book, and it's really been great so far. A nice experience sort of towards improving my journey and finding a great relationship. And so I'm a professional skier,

• 30:58Speaker 09

  professional mountain guide, author, keynote speaker and entrepreneur here in Colorado.

• 31:02Oprah Winfrey?

  I just learned to cross country this year for Christmas.

• 31:05Speaker 09

  Oh, it's great, yeah.

• 31:06Oprah Winfrey?

  It was so great.

• 31:07Speaker 09

  It's a good workout.

• 31:08Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah. It is a workout. Yeah.

• 31:10Speaker 09

  It is a fantastic workout. I've been single for about two years now. I had a couple of relationships that I had prior to that for about two years each. And since then, though, because I've been single, I've really been taking time for myself, traveling a ton, seeking adventure, really leaning into my career and traveling all over the world a lot, sometimes often to a fault, like really just excessively traveling and exploring the world and seeking out adventure. But also spending a lot of time with my family here in the Vail Valley, where all my siblings, their kids, and my parents also live. So we're all very close here. And only recently, because of that, I've started dating again because I've healed from my last relationship.

• 31:55Speaker 09

  So I know that I'm ready. But it has been challenging, you know, so I've done a few meetups and a few dates, but through those dates and those experiences, I've kind of felt nothing. And I sort of miss that sort of genuine connection or the genuine fire that comes along with meeting somebody new and the excitement that comes along with that. I just kind of haven't haven't found that or haven't felt that. And I tend to be very picky, though, right? And so I sort of feel like, does my pickiness mean that I'm sort of my own worst enemy? You know, I want to want to meet somebody great, feel that excitement, go deep, get vulnerable, do all the important things and get into a great relationship. But I just, and I know I'm enough, but I just don't know if, maybe I'm not ready or

• 32:40Speaker 09

  if I'm not feeling it and I just, I don't feel anything. So, you know, what do you think? And that's sort of my question is, is, you know, is being picky and waiting a good thing? I mean, what are your thoughts on all this?

• 32:53Speaker 03

  I have a few thoughts. So I would imagine it's true that you really value adventure and novelty in life. Is that a big thing for you? Because you just said that you going on a lot of adventures.

• 33:07Speaker 09

  I think novelty and, you know, my job is really can be stressful. I've, I've actually summoned Everest four times, Mount Everest, and I guide clients there and I also guide all. Oh, boy.

• 33:17Speaker 03

  Anyone, so yes, so you do, you're not someone who is playing it safe. You're not the person who lives your life playing it safe. I mean, you're a ski instructor, you're a professional skier, you climbed Mount Everest four times. I mean, that's not someone, yeah, but that's not, yeah, okay. So that's not someone who's, who's living a safe life. And so you're looking for that fire. So oftentimes, when we're someone who values at a high level adventure, novelty, maybe some risk, maybe a little bit of danger. What we're also drawn to in relationships is a lot of that fire. And sometimes, not always, but you can verify this for me.

• 33:58Speaker 03

  Sometimes what that can lead to is maybe a lot of relationships or relationships that feel like a roller coaster or a lot of fighting, maybe a lot of physical passion, but then just a lot of fighting and ups and downs. Is that your experience?

• 34:14Speaker 09

  Yeah, I mean, I tend to actually, believe it or not, be very laid back and sort of patient because of what I do for a living.

• 34:24Speaker 03

  Oh, I believe it.

• 34:25Speaker 09

  But when that gets clashed with somebody who does have the excitement and the energy, which I thrive on.

• 34:30Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 34:31Speaker 09

  I think that's caused some problems in the past.

• 34:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:34Speaker 09

  And I kind of figure out how to navigate that moving forward. But also at times if I, yeah, like I've always said to my friends, or even my friends or my family say to me, because they know me very well, that I probably need to date somebody who's also not normal. Like somebody that, let's say, has a nine to five job might not fit for me. But, you know, somebody that, that lives a life of similar adventure or a non-traditional job where they can work remotely has been a fit for me.

• 35:00Speaker 03

  But you said you're too picky. You're too picky, right? So here would be, this is my advice to you. I, I would never suggest that anyone pursue a relationship with someone with whom they don't feel any chemistry. But I think you should have a lot of dates where you are really, you're sitting down with someone and really getting to know someone. Because one of the things that's really hard to distinguish is the difference between lust and love. And when we feel a lot of that fire and that feeling, you know, you said you're very laid back. So you may be going for like the fiery type and you're leading with that feeling. And I don't want you to not have any chemistry,

• 35:43Speaker 03

  but I want you to make a deeper connection. And sometimes that deep connection doesn't come on the first date. It just doesn't come. And if you're looking for the immediate fireworks and if you don't feel it, then you write someone off, then yes, I would say to you that your pickiness is not an indication that you're not ready, but it is an indication that this is one way in which you might be standing in your own way. So. I would actually give women who you think are pleasant and nice more of a chance. And instead of being in the position of vetting them, they have to have the same lifestyle as me, I have to feel that fire, all these things.

• 36:26Speaker 03

  I want you instead to try to make a connection with another human being and really get to know her, even if she ends up being a friend, or even if this is someone who you never see again, to give people more of a chance so that you can practice your skills of actually really getting to know someone. How does that land for you?

• 36:48Speaker 09

  It lands pretty well. Because it's true. I mean, a lot of people sort of look at me and say, well, you're doing this, you're doing that, you've been up on Everest three or four times, like, you know, what does your wife think of this? And it's like, well, first of all, I don't have a wife yet, but at the same time, I know of people in my same profession that do have families, and I know it's possible.

• 37:05Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah. And you could very easily have a wife that would be so happy to see you when you returned home.

• 37:12Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 37:13Oprah Winfrey?

  And not interested in making the trek with you.

• 37:14Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 37:15Oprah Winfrey?

  That's very, very, very doable and very probably likely.

• 37:18Speaker 03

  Yes, absolutely. Who accepts you for who you are, and you accept her for who she is, but she doesn't have to be doing it with you. And I think that's where you maybe need to expand your mind a little bit.

• 37:27Oprah Winfrey?

  Thanks, John. Thank you so much.

• 37:30Speaker 09

  Thank you for your time.

• 37:32Oprah Winfrey?

  I thank you for joining the Oprah Podcast. When we come back, Gillian's advice for anybody feeling stuck when it comes to taking that next step towards finding love.

• 38:14Speaker 10

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• 38:41Oprah Winfrey?

  Welcome back and thanks for sharing your valuable time with me. Relationship expert Jillian Turecki is here and she's answering more questions that may be similar to what's on your mind. Tamara is joining us from New Jersey. We heard from a lot of women like you, Tamara. A single mom who's dedicated yourself to raising your daughter, who's now a junior in college, and now you're left with yourself. Yes.

• 39:08Speaker 11

  Hi Oprah. Hi Gillian.

• 39:09Oprah Winfrey?

  Hi.

• 39:10Speaker 11

  Thank you for this opportunity. So like you said, I'm a single mom who's 50 and my dating journey went a little bit like this. I said I was gonna get back out there when my daughter went to middle school and then that turned to high school and then, like you said, she's a junior in college and I attempted again. I will get excited about creating my dating profile. I'll put myself out there. I'll go on one or two dates and that is kind of the extent of it. I have to honestly say I really enjoyed the book, Gillian, and the last chapter really resonated with me, especially about really just pouring into myself, taking the time to discover who I am. And I feel like I'm

• 39:50Speaker 11

  at this stage of my life where I'm honestly ready to date. I'm just curious to know from your perspective, for someone that hasn't dated in a while, like, how should I be looking at these lessons? Should I be looking at it through a different lens?

• 40:06Speaker 03

  No, I think you can be looking at it through the same. I mean... If when you hope to one day be in a relationship. So I always say, prepare. So these are things to help you prepare. And also, if you want to put yourself out there and date, the there's some very important principles in the book that you need to be aware of so that you have better experiences in in a relationship. But I would imagine that it's a little scary. It's a little intimidating to put yourself out there and go on dates. And then maybe you don't have a great date. And then you think, well, you know, what's the point? Or, you know, I'm better, I'm I'm happy alone. But could you maybe just think of it as instead of going on dates

• 40:49Speaker 03

  to find your next partner? Can you make some friends with some men?

• 40:55Speaker 11

  I feel like I can. I definitely feel like I can. I think it just becomes a little bit daunting. I've tried different mediums. I feel like I'm more of an in person connection versus online. So I would be happy and open to exploring different mediums. And I can definitely start with being friends. I think for me, it's easy to create connections with people. But it's getting started that I'm really having a challenge with.

• 41:24Speaker 03

  OK, do you have a favorite restaurant that you like to go to in the neighborhood?

• 41:30Speaker 11

  Yes.

• 41:30Speaker 03

  OK. So take yourself to dinner or for lunch.

• 41:34Speaker 11

  OK.

• 41:34Speaker 03

  You can sit at the bar and you can bring a book. And start talking to people. Now, it does, it doesn't have to be men. You could be sitting next to someone and because you said making friends and talking to people's comes naturally to you. You can start talking to people and you never know. You could meet a woman whose cousin, whose cousin's kid, you know, whatever, whose cousin is just recently divorced. Or you just never know what's going to happen. And I often say like, if you're not going to do the apps, totally fine. Expand your circle. Start talking to people. Put yourself, get yourself off the couch. It's not going to happen on your couch. And get yourself out there.

• 42:19Speaker 03

  And even if you go with just one friend and you sit at the bar and start talking to people and start making connections. And because then you never know. And that's a very organic way for it to happen. But it's also you being proactive. And you say, I'm going to put myself out there more without it having to be this, you know, swiping and going on a date and having that sort of that tension and that rigidity around it. And so that's how I would start.

• 42:45Oprah Winfrey?

  Amen.

• 42:46Speaker 03

  Thank you for that. Thank you for that.

• 42:48Oprah Winfrey?

  Go for it.

• 42:50Speaker 03

  Okay, I'm ready.

• 42:51Oprah Winfrey?

  All right.

• 42:51Speaker 03

  I'm ready. Thank you.

• 42:52Oprah Winfrey?

  Thanks, Tamara. Next, we have Megan and Mike from Long Island. Megan and Mike are former clients of Jillian's who worked with her for three years. Megan, you say Jillian saved your marriage. How'd she do that? Y'all are in different rooms or different cities?

• 43:10Speaker 12

  Different cities right now. I'm in New York. He's in Las Vegas. Yeah.

• 43:13Oprah Winfrey?

  Great.

• 43:14Speaker 12

  Yeah, Jillian saved our marriage in so many ways. We were, when we started working with Jill, it was very much either we go for divorce or we try to fix this. We were that dire. It was kind of hit a head in that, in that sense. And so when we started working with Jill, she did so much work on us really becoming a team. But I think for me personally, one of the biggest things we worked on was taking responsibility for my part in our issues instead of just putting a lot of the blame on Mike and really working on ourselves separately to then come back together and work on our marriage together. And I think that was something that I never really thought about. I just thought, we just need to fix this. He needs to fix these things versus we need to work on ourselves separately, too.

• 44:00Oprah Winfrey?

  And Mike, what was it like for you?

• 44:03Speaker 13

  Yeah, I mean, it started with that. As we were working through it, it started peeling off a lot of layers that I kind of swept under the rug. It came from a pretty hairy divorce that I never thought impacted me all that much. I was never hurting for anything, but I was neglected a lot emotionally. And I brought that into the marriage in a way that I never really understood until we started working with Jill and started peeling back those layers.

• 44:29Oprah Winfrey?

  Mm hmm.

• 44:31Speaker 13

  Then I started kind of the personal growth journey. And that's when Jill and I started working together more.

• 44:36Oprah Winfrey?

  Did you have a question today?

• 44:39Speaker 13

  Yeah, as now that we have twin boys that are one 14 months, what would your advice be on prioritizing our connection, our sex life, our intimacy to make sure we're staying in a connected in a good way?

• 44:57Speaker 03

  Have you hired a babysitter and just gone to a hotel for a night?

• 45:05Speaker 13

  No, not that.

• 45:06Oprah Winfrey?

  Obviously not.

• 45:10Speaker 03

  I would do that.

• 45:10Speaker 13

  I think for us, it's been harder to, we've been with them every day. So separating from them now, this is the first time I've been away. I left two days ago and we haven't been away from them for more than six, eight hours.

• 45:24Speaker 03

  It doesn't have to be overnight. It can be five hours. It can be five hours where you go dinner dancing, but don't stay the night. And you get away and you have a night or an evening where it's just the two of you and you don't, you don't just feel like mom and dad. This will work wonders.

• 45:45Speaker 13

  Yeah, for sure.

• 45:46Speaker 12

  We've never thought of that. I think that's a great idea, actually. When we do go out and we do hire a babysitter, we'll go get dinner and we'll rush home, you know? And we're starting, now that they're getting a little older, we're starting to trust people more and things like that. So I think that's a great idea that we didn't think of.

• 46:01Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, I think so too. I saw your face light up. You're like, whoa, really? Okay. All right. Well, glad we fixed that. Thanks.

• 46:12Oprah Winfrey?

  Thank you, guys. Appreciate you zooming in with us. Thank you so much.

• 46:16Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 46:17Oprah Winfrey?

  Time now for a quick break. When we come back, Julian's insight on the role heartbreak plays in healing our relationship with ourselves.

• 46:26Oprah Winfrey?

  Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. We're going to wrap things up with a new perspective on heartbreak. If you like what you heard today, I hope you'll share this podcast with someone you care about or who may be ready to hear it. The subtitle of your book is Nine Hard Truths About Love That Will Change Your Life. What would you say is the number one hard truth?

• 46:49Speaker 03

  You know, what comes to my mind is probably the first one because it's the title of the book, which it begins with you.

• 46:54Oprah Winfrey?

  Begins with you.

• 46:55Speaker 03

  Because people immediately think, well, then it's my fault. Or, and we, people usually straddle that line between blaming others or hyper blaming themselves. And so, taking responsibility can either turn a perfectionist, you know, can take them down a wormhole. Or the person who's blaming someone else, they don't want to take responsibility. It Begins With You, it just means that the, you are the change that you wish to see in your love life.

• 47:26Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah. That's number one. And that it's always there reflecting back to you, what you actually

• 47:32Speaker 03

  Always.

• 47:32Oprah Winfrey?

  need to heal and fix for yourself.

• 47:35Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 47:35Oprah Winfrey?

  I love you say, page nine. Every single heartbreak and disappointment we've ever endured was trying to teach us more about our fears, patterns and beliefs that have been sabotaging our chances of having a fulfilling relationship. So, heartbreak is there to show you another way.

• 47:53Speaker 03

  It is the greatest lesson. It is the greatest lesson. And I think one of the most profound lessons I learned from heartbreak is just because someone's part in your story has ended, it does not mean your story has ended. You have a whole other story to continue in your life. And one of the hardest lessons that we will ever face as human beings is learning to accept when someone's part in our story is over. We don't like to let go. We like to hold on. And nothing lasts. So, even if you are, even if you stay in a relationship for decades, you're going to have to mourn, grieve,

• 48:37Speaker 03

  people that they used to be. Because we are always evolving and changing.

• 48:41Oprah Winfrey?

  That's right, that's right.

• 48:42Speaker 03

  So, even if it's the same relationship, you're going to have to let go over and over again.

• 48:46Oprah Winfrey?

  And if you're in a relationship and there's no longer connection, you actually are not in relationship. Because connection is the single best thing that makes us feel whole.

• 48:55Speaker 03

  Absolutely. And I always say that relationships rarely end because of a lack of love. They more commonly end because people don't feel connected to each other. And they'll say, I love this person. It's not about love, but I don't feel the connection. I.e., I don't feel seen. I don't feel understood. I don't feel heard. And yeah, connection. And when you're in a relationship, our priority has to be, how can I, in the small little ways every day, how can I create a bridge to this person?

• 49:30Oprah Winfrey?

  And it begins with you.

• 49:31Speaker 03

  And it begins with you.

• 49:32Oprah Winfrey?

  Creating that bridge. Gillian's book, It Begins With You, is available wherever books are sold. And our podcast is called Gillian on Love. I thank you again for being my guest here.

• 49:45Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 49:46Oprah Winfrey?

  And thank you, Mary Ann, and John, and Tamara, Megan, and Mike. Go well, everyone. You can subscribe to the Over Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.

• 50:09Speaker 14

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• 50:30Speaker 12

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