Harvard Sociologist: The Technology Crisis No One Is Talking About! How Notification Culture, and Parasocial Bonds Are Creating A Loneliness Epidemic (Caitlin Begg)

Caitlin Begg , Harvard-trained sociologist, founder of Authentic Social, and host of Progression to Analog, is redefining how smartphones and social media shape our attention, communication, and intimacy. From taking three years off TikTok, to researching parasocial relationships, to designing healthier tech habits, this is the conversation every modern creator, founder, and human needs to hear. Why “phone brain” is the hidden reason behind your short attention span How notification culture rewires our dopamine and drives gossip culture Why short-term social media breaks don’t fix your brain - but mornings off do The loneliness epidemic: hyper-connected, but more isolated than ever How parasocial relationships with influencers - and even friends - are changing intimacy Why authenticity online matters (and why most people still fake it) The dark side of dating apps and how they’re numbing real connection Why boredom, drifting, and in-person conversations are the real productivity hacks How AI can free up time for thinking - if you use it the right way What companies get wrong about workplace communication overload This isn’t about quitting tech. It’s about reclaiming your attention, deepening real relationships, and designing a more human everyday life. ⸻ This episode is sponsored by:⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠HSR Newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠ - Get 3 months free using ⁠this link ⁠⸻ ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ If you like what you hear, rate, review, and subscribe to Hot Smart Rich, the podcast supporting women who own their worth — in business, wealth, and life. ⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe on YouTube⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⸻ 💌Own your worth — and build the life you want. Subscribe to the Hot Smart Rich newsletter, the no-BS guide to startup life, consumer brands, and becoming your hottest, smartest, richest self, written by Maggie Sellers. Join 250,000+ women building wealth, confidence, and community on their own terms. ⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe here⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⸻ Become an HSR Angel in the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Global HSR WhatsApp⁠⁠⁠⁠ channel⁠! ⸻ Follow Maggie: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tiktok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Locker⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ShopMy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Amazon Storefront⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⸻ Follow Caitlin & Authentic Social: Instagram LinkedIn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

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• 0:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

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• 1:04Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies. 18 plus.

• 1:33Maggie Sellers Reum?

  In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it.

• 1:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Kaitlyn Beg, are you ready to get hot, smart, rich?

• 1:46Speaker 02

  Yes, I am.

• 1:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I'm so excited that you're here. Thank you for doing this while I'm in New York.

• 1:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm so excited to be here.

• 1:51Maggie Sellers Reum?

  We met on social media, which ironically, you just spent three years off of. Can you explain why you did that?

• 1:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I took three years and I didn't post on TikTok for those three years and I didn't go on TikTok and I only posted film on my Instagram. For TikTok specifically, I started out posting about New York City restaurants to highlight businesses during the pandemic, which I really liked. But then I started to post about this thing called 22 Habits in 2022. And one of the things I looked into was how TikTok affects your brain. And then I thought, okay, maybe I should just get off of TikTok, research how phones affect our brains, and come back onto it with a nuanced approach. Because I feel like a lot of the conversation about smartphones is like... How do we break up with our phone? How do we get rid of our phones? How do we be phone free? And that's not the reality, especially as a founder. There's a lot of great parts of the smartphone, but it's more about how do we find that balance in our everyday, which taking time off of really let me figure that out.

• 2:41Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What did you learn about what TikTok does to our brains?

• 2:45Speaker 02

  Well, it short circuits our attention spans. And one of my findings recently is that there are seven times the amount of communication channels as just a few decades before. And it doesn't mean that we use all seven times of those, but there's so many options and that really bifurcates our attention and makes us unable to dive deeper into things. Because conversation is something where you are going deeper and deeper and deeper, but every time you pick up your phone, every time you look at notification, it really short circuits what you're doing.

• 3:12Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You talk about something called notification culture. What is that?

• 3:16Speaker 02

  Notification culture is the fact that we revolve our lives around pings and around this Pavlovian fix that we get from hearing that we have a new notification. And it's really centering our conversations, our lives, everything about it. You were interviewed on a podcast at one point. You said that it's really not great that a lot of us talk a lot about people instead of events and things like that. And I think that this notification culture makes us more apt to talk about horrific events or about gossipy things versus things that take a little bit more deeper level thought and that aren't just a headline. And so that's part of what it is. And something that I've found a lot is that do not disturbs can really be your best friend and customizing them and figuring out how you can make it work for you so that you're not picking up your phone when you're with a friend and getting away from that connection that you could be having in person.

• 4:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It's so funny. I actually take it a step further. I actually do airplane mode versus do not disturb. Because when I do do not disturb, I'm constantly picking up just to see like if there has been something. But when I'm on airplane mode, like this morning, knowing I was going to do this interview, I was like, I'm keeping my phone on airplane mode until 10 a.m. And then I was able to like get the rush of information in. So take me back to that moment when you decided to completely go cold turkey off of TikTok. Was that very difficult to break up with that habit?

• 4:29Speaker 02

  No, it wasn't because I made it my New Year's resolution to be more creative. And so one of those things was I started to post about sociology on TikTok. But then I also did this experiment in my apartment where I had 50 people who didn't know each other well. To see if they could stay off their phones without making them, without locking them away. And I put a sign on the door that said that we were encouraging intentional tech use. And people came in and the apartment was decorated really weird. I shot film for of everyday life, kind of the behind the scenes moments of cooking dinner and all these things that we don't capture and paste it all over the wall. And then I got out of print technology magazines from nine decades, framed them and put them on the wall. I thought if we could occupy people's minds, then they won't be on their phones. And it really worked. Actually, a short term couple came out of it, all these fun things.

• 5:14Maggie Sellers Reum?

  They broke up since.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, they broke up since. But it was a thing for a little bit.

• 5:17Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  And it really showed me and inspired me that all you really have to do is provide interesting stimulation. And conversation is really at the heart of all this, of being off our phones. So that really inspired me. I was also really inspired by the 1975 and Matty Healy because in Love It If You Made It, there's a lyric that says, "The poetry is in the streets." And I beat that song to death. And I Googled, "The poetry is in the streets." It's a sign that was written all over Paris in May of 1968 by this French revolutionary group called the Situationists. And they really looked at the joy in everyday life and how that there is a lot of joy in these everyday moments. And I think that's something that we forget about in social media because we're always so focused on the spectacular. And so I dove really deep into researching that group and to researching conversation

• 6:02Speaker 02

  and how we can find fixes that work within our existing everyday instead of having these pie in the sky ideas that don't work within work, within friendships, within technology.

• 6:12Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Some of our favorite creators, I feel like, are also taking a page out of this book. Sammy Clark is like one of my favorite fitness influencers and she has a brand called Form. And she took a month off of social media and she came back.

• 6:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, yes, yes.

• 6:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And she came back like with that little pottery video being like, here's why I took a month off. Why do you think that everyone should consider doing a break?

• 6:30Speaker 02

  So I think that the breaks are nice because they help you reset. Although there is a recent study, meta-analysis of a ton of different studies that says that short-term breaks don't actually positively affect you or mental health because it doesn't really rewire your brain. But I think what that study doesn't really take into account is the fact that it can do other things versus just long-term mental health. It can resituate you. It can change your perspective. And those things can be really helpful. I think that What a break can do is to help you to realize that there's a world outside of social media. But I think that more effective than a break is beginning your mornings off of your phone. And that's what I've been doing for three years straight.

• 7:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So what exactly happens to our brains when you take the morning off of your phone?

• 7:10Speaker 02

  So there's something called sleep inertia and sleep drunkenness. And basically, what happens is when you wake up, you're not fully awake. You're in this transitional stage of between sleep and wake. And during that transitional stage, if you're on your phone, it short circuits your attention such that you feel that drowsy, that you're needing those dopamine hits throughout the day. And so there was a study in Korea that showed that waking morning tasks, anything that is off of your phone, direct, unmediated experience can really help to get rid of those negative effects. So one of the things I do is I read every morning, nonfiction. I've done it every morning, even on overnight flights and like crazy situations where I'm at, like a bachelorette sharing a bed with a friend. But it doesn't have to be reading. I tell people that you can brush your teeth and take a shower.

• 7:51Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I blow dry my hair.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, do anything. And it really helps to just realize that you are in the physical space where you are. There's a world outside of a phone, and it can really help with long-term effects for the rest of the day.

• 8:02Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Is that the number one thing that people can do that are listening? That like feel their brain having a very short attention span and like they're getting overwhelmed and anxious? It's like you don't have to take a break. You just need to take two hours in the morning to... Or is it two hours?

• 8:15Speaker 02

  I don't think that we should use those here at all. I think that it's actually harmful when you try to... Because then you get into streak mindset into like, oh, I have to do this thing. Some mornings, it's literally just going to be a page that you read, or it's going to be five minutes. But just getting into that habit is what's most important, is fitting it within your everyday. And it is, getting off your phone in the morning is a number one thing that helps, that I've tried to help, at least with thousands of people that I've spoken to. A lot of people have given me really great feedback, DMs, saying that it's changed their life, because it is one small habit that can really get you there. It's another thing that people can do is separate their screen time into productive, mindless, and fun. And that's one thing that people don't really talk about with screen time, because especially if you're a content creator, if your job involves going on social media, you might

• 8:58Speaker 02

  have an eight-hour, 10-hour screen time, and that's not necessarily bad. It's, okay, if six of those hours are you're creating content, well, that's productive. But then when you're scrolling, say you have 30 minutes of scrolling, but then you should decide, when does that fun screen time turn to mindless? And then you can switch that part of the habit.

• 9:14Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Well, and it's so interesting that you say that, because obviously, a big part of my job is being online. And I notice it so interestingly when like I start to do that mindless consumption. My anxiety starts to go crazy because I start looking and I compare myself and I'm like, I didn't do that or I need to do this.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 9:30Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And do you think that that helps just create a healthy boundary when you're just more like cognizant of how much time you're spending online?

• 9:37Speaker 02

  Definitely, and I'm not a proponent for these things of buying solutions or create the problem, sell the solution. That's not what I'm doing. I think that's why people like my advice is because I'm not trying to sell them a product that's going to decrease their screen time. I'm really just showing them, here's how you can do it and here's how you can integrate it into your everyday. Because I think at the end of the day, it's like that, that there's this thing recently that there was this one group in the world that hadn't seen social media and as soon as they got it, they became addicted. We're all prone to it. It doesn't matter if you research it like me, or, or if you're, you don't really care how addicted you are. Everyone can be addicted and then so it's just like, how can you change your habits to fit within your everyday so that you feel comfortable?

• 10:13Maggie Sellers Reum?

  My favorite video that you've posted, at least recently, was questioning how much information we really need to know about people.

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:21Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And it actually got brought up yesterday and we were like, how interesting is it that now you can find anything online?

• 10:28Speaker 02

  Anything.

• 10:29Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Positive or negative?

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:30Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And you can literally develop these relationships with people where you know so much about them.

• 10:35Speaker 02

  So much about them.

• 10:36Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What is the impact of that?

• 10:38Speaker 02

  It's really, it's, it's almost difficult to even put into words because part of the video that I started out, I said, I don't know that we're meant to see the wedding photos of someone who's broken our heart. And that's just, I think that example really hit home for a lot of people because it's like, we just don't need all of this information. It's too much. It's something that I refer to as hyper-communication or excess inbound or outbound communication that comes from technology. And that can just really bog us down and make us feel this sense of phone brain. And that, that's something that we want to get away from is how can we find that balance? And it goes back to what I said before is there's seven times the amount of communication channels on an everyday basis. Well, how can we? Get away from that. It's really about curating our own, what our normal is. And if we want to check someone's social media once in a while, that's fine.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  But not getting into the habit of just this reflexive checking and needing to know everything. Because when we know everything, we know nothing and we're not discovering things. We're just, it's this endless cycle of gossip.

• 11:35Maggie Sellers Reum?

  We have these parasocial relationships with creators. We are now developing parasocial relationships with people in our life, our friends, our family.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  That's my favorite.

• 11:44Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What is going on there?

• 11:45Speaker 02

  I first spoke about this at Brain Bar, Europe's largest festival in the future in September. And we have parasocial relationships with our friends. And that's something that you really need to keep in mind as you're using social media more and more. Sometimes people will not reach out to their friends because they're consuming content about their life. And they're not realizing, oh, I haven't actually reached out to this person in months, or I haven't seen this friend in years. And so taking a minute to think about, how am I consuming content? What am I sharing? Like, I didn't post anything on my Instagram on my honeymoon until I got home. Because I really felt like this is such a special time to nest and to be with my husband. And that when you're projecting, you're then, it's natural. Then you want to see the reactions to it and you want it. Then all these micro conversations start and you're going in all these different directions. And then you're not situated where you are.

• 12:31Maggie Sellers Reum?

  One of the biggest compliments that I get when I meet someone in the street that follows me or listens to the podcast is they say, you are the exact same online that you are offline. And it shocks me because I think, how different are people acting online than they are offline? Have you seen anything in your research around people creating these personas or characters online that is actually not who they are in real life?

• 12:54Speaker 02

  That's actually what my undergraduate thesis was on, was aligning our digital and real world selves. And how, when we do that, it brings us more satisfaction. And I found that over 90% of people get anxious every time that they receive a text message. And 94% of people said that their social media doesn't show a fully authentic version of themselves. And so that's really interesting because it shows us that we're not aligning those two selves. And I don't like Mark Zuckerberg, but he has one quote that I really do think makes a lot of sense, which is that you have one identity. And that is the case. Social media has just brought that to the forefront. I think in this debate of platforms versus people of what causes all these problems, platforms are definitely at the forefront of it. And I could go on about that for a really long

• 13:36Speaker 02

  time. But I do think that there is something to be said about just having one identity. And that's what when I'm on TikTok, if I'm about to go into workout and I'm doing a video, I'll record my workout outfit.

• 13:46Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I love that you are a sports bra.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, just like whatever, like whatever I'm doing, because people don't want this buttoned up version. We are all human. And that is the one good thing that I've seen come from social media is that we can see this layer underneath and that it does democratize information and democratize opinions.

• 14:02Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Well, and also democratize what's cool, right? Because in the past, it was all celebrity driven, which is so filtered. And there's so many approval layers. But I guess to clarify your point and saying that there's this one identity, because what I often see is like, people have actually multiple identities, and they only show one side of it. And then when you meet someone in real life, you're almost like sad. It's like, don't meet your heroes, because they actually aren't as friendly or aren't as outgoing. So are you arguing that now you're seeing this shift of people actually being more authentic in themselves online? Or are you still feeling like there are characters that are built of our favorite creators online?

• 14:37Speaker 02

  There are definitely characters that people build. But something that's interesting is that in poor economic times, educational content does better. And in better economic times, aspirational content does better. We're not in a great economic state right now. So that's why.

• 14:48Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Is that why HSR is the number 50 podcast in the world today?

• 14:51Speaker 02

  That's why educational content does really, really well. Also, congrats. That's amazing. But that's why people like seeing these stripped down versions of their favorite creators. Brett Chody does a great job of it. I love her. She's one of my mutuals on TikTok. And I think she does a great job. Just speak like you feel like you're in the room with her. And instead of this over edited type of content, I think people want to see inside. But then, we also have to figure out how to strike that balance of not doing this like contentification of everyday life and making everything into content. The reason why I also think people like my advice around phones is that I've gone back into the void on TikTok. And I'm do I'm on this journey with everyone saying, hey, I'm posting content. Here's how I've struck this balance between sharing things and not sharing things and being online and being offline.

• 15:33Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I'm gonna be really vulnerable for a second with the community, because I think part of where I was before the last few weeks actually was like, Really scared of like making a mistake and I would film videos like multiple times because when you build a brand on being an investor and being in business, it's like you can't fail.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 15:51Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And it was interesting because I used to rerecord videos probably 15 times. Now I just post, I fumble over my words. I'm just an honest person and my content and engagement has gotten so much better because I think for so long, especially when you wear a sociologist hat, however trained, you're teaching people about your phones or you're like teaching people how to invest and have conversations and develop your life in a better way. You feel this fear of like failing.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 16:19Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And something really interesting, I wanted to get your personal and professional opinion on is this expectation we have of our parasocial relationships with creators with one specific situation. So I still can't wrap my head around the fact that with Remy Bader and her openly talking about her weight loss surgery, roughly a year later, people could not be happy for her. Whereas like-

• 16:44Speaker 02

  So bizarre.

• 16:45Maggie Sellers Reum?

  With Serena Williams, who took a GLP-1 for roughly the same amount of time. It was like, oh my gosh, thank God this person who also has built their career off of being an athlete and their body is now being celebrated for it. And I guess my question to you is just, how have the parasocial relationships we've developed with influencers become so dark?

• 17:06Speaker 02

  They've become so dark a lot because of these Reddit snark pages. A lot.

• 17:10Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Tell me about that.

• 17:11Speaker 02

  They're consuming creators' videos and then they're going on to these pages and just really taking their parasocial relationships to a whole nother level. They're so mean. Actually, in advance of this conversation, I haven't been, I don't post on them and I have never like engaged in them, but I will view them as a sociologist to see like what's going on. And ahead of this conversation, I went on yesterday-

• 17:30Maggie Sellers Reum?

  To my Reddit page?

• 17:31Speaker 02

  No, no, no.

• 17:31Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Oh my God, you should see mine.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  I went on to New York City Influencer Snark and it was horrible. I mean- I was tempted to log into my Reddit and start like defending these people because I'm like, this is so mean. You don't know anything about their life. That's the thing is the most authentic of creators. I try to consider myself and you're very authentic, but there's so much that people don't know and they shouldn't, they don't deserve to know. I mean, my company is called Authentic Social. I don't believe that authenticity in social media means you have to share everything. You don't owe anyone anything. You owe people the truth when you're sharing something, but people think that they are deserving of more than I think is okay.

• 18:08Maggie Sellers Reum?

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• 18:53Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Talking about another creator, because I love getting your opinions on this, like Kristin Cavallari just came out and said that social media is making us fearful of everything. Like, don't eat this because of that, or don't do this because of that. What is your most unpopular opinion about the impact of social media?

• 19:07Speaker 02

  The most unpopular opinion I have about the impact of social media is that the consumption habits are ridiculous because of it. And people make consumption habits their personality. And I think to a point where people are just hawking stuff left and right, and it drives me nuts. I think that the best creators are the ones who don't do a million sponsored ads, or the ones who do ones that actually mean something to them. Again, I think Brett Choddy is a great example of this. She just did an Nike ad. That's amazing. That really fits with her brand. But when people are... Creating these parasocial relationships with you and then exploiting those to sell you random stuff that they don't use. I mean, I've known people in this space that have promoted things that I know that they don't like, and that really bothers me. So it's just, people see through that now. They didn't maybe five years ago, but they do now.

• 19:50Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How does someone develop a parasocial relationship with a following?

• 19:53Speaker 02

  Because they start to feel like they're their friend. And it's also inherent in like the amount of time that you're spending on social media and also projecting some of your own desires, your own wishes, your own things onto that person. And maybe you're lacking a friend who you can gossip with, so you go onto a creator who's gossiping a lot. Or maybe you're lacking someone who's fit and has a great morning routine and you don't have that in your life, so then you project it onto them. And that's what's really scary is that it's all these one-sided conversations. And this is part of what I think in my, I see in my research is that we're becoming less and less good at conversation because we are not having, we're addicted to these one-sided conversations where we're just consuming, consuming, consuming, and we're not creating anything.

• 20:30Maggie Sellers Reum?

  If someone's listening to this that wants to develop skills in that capacity, what are they doing?

• 20:35Speaker 02

  Honestly, the best way to do is to strike up a conversation with a random person, but it's not in the way, it's only when the moment strikes. I have not worn headphones in public since January 1st, except for when I'm in the air in a plane or occasionally when exercising, because I have this study where I'm tracking every instance of smartphone noise, which is kind of-

• 20:51Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Did you see my video about the airplanes?

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yes, I did. Oh, my God, it's-

• 20:55Maggie Sellers Reum?

  People's behavior on airplanes?

• 20:58Speaker 02

  That's part of the reason why I'm doing this study, actually, is because there was an article about smartphone noise in the Wall Street Journal and the Times, but they didn't have data on it because no one's crazy enough to, if you, I like took out my phone right now and showed you all the data. Like, I record every subway ride, I haven't worn headphones at all, and it's just, it's insane. But what's kind of interesting about that is I have resting, smiling face. I like to just like joke, I look very approachable, so more people have like talked to me, which can be good and bad, but I think that striking up a conversation with someone in public is nice, and that's one way to do it. But also just trying to dive to the next level of deeper conversation with people in your life is something to do. And so make plans, like-

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• 22:29Speaker 04

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• 22:57Speaker 02

  Fake plans.

• 22:58Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And don't bail.

• 22:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, and don't bail. Don't be a cancel person. It's so annoying.

• 23:02Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I just saw this on those, what's that trend that's going on? Like unfortunately I do love. And one of the common ones I'm seeing is canceling on people last minute.

• 23:09Speaker 02

  I know.

• 23:10Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And I just don't think that's something that you should be proud of. It's actually like the two things, like you talk about experiments, I talk about experiments. Two things I experimented with was not being late. So actually telling myself it was 30 minutes before. And that's completely changed my life. And then the other thing is also just like going up to random people, taking, like the best hack that I've ever done, and I actually just saw this girl do it with Peyton Sartan, who I love. They took an adorable picture of her with her dog while she was ordering at a coffee shop with her dog's like paws on the counter and said to her after, "Do you mind if I send you this photo? It's really cute."

• 23:45Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 23:45Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And I think for anybody that's like moving to a new city or trying to establish these boundaries of in real life communication, think about like how you can offer value to people. And you're gonna start a conversation and make a friend.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 23:58Maggie Sellers Reum?

  "Did you see my video on Sincerely Yours?"

• 24:00Speaker 02

  Tell me about it.

• 24:02Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So there is this father daughter duo of...

• 24:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  A creator family, I guess.

• 24:08Speaker 02

  Wait, yes, I watched this yesterday. Yes, yes, yes.

• 24:10Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So for people that are listening that haven't seen this video.

• 24:12Speaker 02

  It's bizarre.

• 24:13Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yes.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  It's, I actually thought about this for so long.

• 24:16Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So there is a family, father-daughter duo, that had an exclusive launch with Sephora days ago for their new skincare brand, sincerely yours. It literally looks like it could be Drunk Elephant, just like for teenagers. This girl, who's 15, she pulled such a massive crowd to a mall that it was actually dangerous for crowd control.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  Insane.

• 24:36Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And the content that this brand is built off of is so creepy to me. It is literally videos on the father's YouTube channel about,

• 24:45Speaker 02

  Are you dating him?

• 24:45Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Is my daughter dating him? Like, the boyfriend is proposing to this 15-year-old to be his girlfriend. Like, it's just bizarre. What is going on with youth and social media? And these types of people that just pop off out of nowhere with millions of followers?

• 25:03Speaker 02

  I think it's just not okay.

• 25:04Maggie Sellers Reum?

  But is that what, like, people are interested in?

• 25:08Speaker 02

  I think what it does is it exploits people's fascination for people's everyday lives. And it also lets iPad parents be iPad parents. They want to just give their kids an iPad and let them watch whatever it is on social media and just go. But we crave these intimate details of everyday life, right? And the one part of that that's not on social media is younger kids. And that's where, that's why family vloggers do so well, is because they're showing these everyday moments of kids. But it's not okay. These kids are not 18, and it's just not okay.

• 25:36Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What do you think the biggest fear is of Gen Alpha and Gen Z with this level of communication and social media and technology?

• 25:46Speaker 02

  I think the fear is, is that they won't value in-person communication or in-person experiences as much. And I think that in an ideal world, our country would do a better job in having laws to protect these children, just the same way that child actors have different laws. And some states are doing that well. But what I really worry about is getting so stuck in our screens that we're not really realizing that there is a whole world around us and trying to balance that. And getting addicted to these heavy consumption habits at such a young age and making consumption part of your personality is also something that's pretty dangerous. Because then it's like, it just is the next thing. And you're not really developing hobbies, you're just consuming. You're consuming content, you're consuming... Products and what else is there?

• 26:28Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And it's like, are you then getting hobbies to just film content? Are you getting hobbies to like have a hobby that is not going to give you a dopamine hit? What everybody wants in life is love, which I think is just like a very common thread. Why do you think that it is so sexy for women to date a man that doesn't use social media?

• 26:45Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh. My husband doesn't post on social media.

• 26:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah, same with my boyfriend. Yeah.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  I think because if there's just a huge ick in guys doing this, I couldn't be with someone who was constantly posting everything. It's not a fully gendered thing, but I noticed it at least with my friends that the girls want to post more than the guys do. And I think that sometimes I see at least in personal anecdotal experience that my girlfriends get a little bit more stressed out about social media than the guys. And I think that if a guy in your life is also part of that stress, it just wouldn't be fun. And I also think it's nice to have someone in your life who's not encouraging you to make everything into content and who looks at things from a different perspective and just having two different perspectives and realizing that there is a life outside of social media. Because it would kind of upset me if I was on my honeymoon and my husband was like, let's take pics from ninety different angles.

• 27:32Speaker 02

  I'm like, that's my role to be stressed out about that. Like, you don't need to take that role.

• 27:37Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It's so funny because Serena Kerrigan was just saying she posted this very vulnerable video about her and her relationship. And some of the things that they fought over is like her boyfriend saying to her, like, I can't go on a trip just for content. And I think every single creator's partner, spouse at a certain point feels that as well. Like, we were just in Paris and my boyfriend was like, Maggie, like, I am happy to take photos for you for ten minutes before we're ready to leave. But like, my night is not to be built around content. Yeah. And I'm like, but I remember, I'll never forget this, there was this really big finance man, male creator that people were like, you guys would be so good together. And I met him in person and my only thought when I left was like, I can't imagine dating somebody where I was like, babe, can you take a picture of me? And he's like, no, take a picture of me.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  No, I can't. I just can't. I can't do it.

• 28:21Maggie Sellers Reum?

  But I do think that a lot of women have actually found love using technology, including yourself.

• 28:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:26Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Do you think that it's made it easier to find love? Or harder to trust what is real?

• 28:32Speaker 02

  Both, but I think what's interesting is I met my husband on Bumble in 2020 and it was easier to find people then. I think part of it is, yes, they're good, but part of what I studied in my undergrad thesis was dating apps. So it's a little funny that I ended up meeting my husband on a dating app because one of the things that I realized is that the more that you can get off the app and in person, the better. But also you have to be pretty vulnerable in your questions and in your prompts and not just make it into these pen pals. Because that's like one of the worst parts of dating apps is just getting into that pen pal thing. And I think what's happened now is that now that they're post COVID, there's this inflection point of everyone being on the app and getting this app fatigue. And now people are going back to wanting to meet in person, which is great. But I really think that dating is a numbers game and people don't want to hear that. Right? Like I was

• 29:17Speaker 02

  out for a while, like I was single for a while. And I actually, this is crazy, but I made a spreadsheet of all the people that I had dated. And like everything, where they went to school, what like, what sport they played, all this stuff and what weren't wrong. It's about looking at your own patterns. We a lot of times just like to say, oh, dating's not going well. This isn't going well. The apps suck. But it's just like, don't take a victim mindset. Look at your own patterns. And it's like, try something different. And also just put yourself out there and make plans with people.

• 29:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So do you think that the dating apps are numbing us to that real human connection? Or we're entering into an era where like, people are now wanting to meet their person that way?

• 29:52Speaker 02

  I think they are numbing us to human connection a little bit because I think that they have made it so that there's always another option out there. But I think that there are some people who aren't like that. Like my husband and I both were looking for love passively, albeit, you know, I didn't expect to meet him at 25, 26. But I think it's one of those things where having in-person experiences and chance encounters is something I look at a lot in my, a lot in my research is chance encounters and seeing how many experiences in your everyday life do you have that could lead to a new connection? And that a lot of times for people is really low. And so I say to people, okay, go in new environments, try new things. I'm doing workplace design projects with companies. I'm saying, okay, put your, put your employees in different situations so they can act differently.

• 30:37Speaker 02

  Because there's this thing called psychogeography and we act, we act similarly in certain places. When we go back to your college or your high school, you have this feeling and you act certain ways. Well, create new pathways. Go, go to new places, go to do new things. It's putting yourself in new situations. I think that's where we can find success and less of this app-based connections.

• 30:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Do you think that the loneliness epidemic is related to social media and being chronically online?

• 31:02Speaker 02

  Yes, I do. And Jonathan Haidt and The Anxious Generation spoke about that a lot in that we, he wants to get us away from a phone-based childhood and back to a play-based childhood. And I think the loneliness epidemic is something where it relates to this parasocial relationship that we have with our friends, too, is that we see, we see all this content from our friends' lives, but we don't see the in-betweens, we don't see the everyday moments, and that is what is most dangerous, I think. And that's what I tried to do when I was posting a lot of film on my Instagram, is that sometimes I would just post like the in-between moments, and I think that that really made me realize that we just don't share these moments, and we don't talk about them enough, and we don't talk about our struggles, and just trying to make plans with people and put yourself into more situations where you can make those connections is really important

• 31:46Speaker 02

  because loneliness is a part of social media because we're hyper-connected, it's this hyper-communication, but we paradoxically feel more lonely than ever.

• 31:54Maggie Sellers Reum?

  But I think that's what is so interesting about social media, and I can say this from creating content for so many years, is like, you start to do things that the algorithm wants you to do or rewards you for. And so there isn't that same reward for something that feels mundane or feels like the in-between moment. So I guess like if someone is looking to prioritize that, like, how can they self-reward themselves to continue that behavior if like the algorithm won't?

• 32:19Speaker 02

  Because you have to learn how to be bored again. That's the biggest thing, is that people don't realize that daydreaming and boredom is a powerful thing. So the situation is, the group I spoke about earlier that I found out about through Maggie Healy, and I've been researching for several years, they popularize this idea called the derive. And the derive, directly translated from French, means drifting. So it basically means that you go out on a walk, and you just find, by happenstance, you just drift through city streets, and you go on this really amazing walk, and you don't know where you're going to end up, and you feel really refreshed afterwards, and you're discovering all these different things. That's why cities like Paris and New York and Boston and Amsterdam, you have this wonderful feeling when you're there because they're designed for walking and for drifting.

• 32:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Oh, is that why I feel so much better in Paris and New York?

• 32:58Speaker 02

  Yes, because of the walkability of the cities. And derives are really important, and even if you don't live in a walkable city or if you live in a suburb, you can drive to Places where you can do that, or you can just find that in in your neighborhood. But these, the reason, the idea of a drifting walk or not always having a destination, not always logging stuff and not always saying, how many calories did I burn? Or how much time am I on this walk? Or how loud is my playlist? Or all that stuff. Even I I say to people, start out with, even if you're logging your walk, take your headphones out for the first five minutes of the walk. Just the first five minutes. Just situate yourself in where you are and figure out like, okay, I'm I'm here. And I've been doing it more and more where I wear my headphones less and less when I'm outside working out. When I'm at a knock, I'm always going to be wearing my headphones.

• 33:38Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That's amazing. I feel like you're the opposite of habit stacking, which is actually a really big secret of the rich. And I, you know, it's like a lot of people are not in the place that they can just like afford to think. But I think what I've really identified around some of the smartest people and the richest and most successful people I've been around is that they really prioritize travel, alone time, thinking, being alone. And it's interesting because I can even tell with my boyfriend, like when he gets the most stressed, he feels like he hasn't had time to think.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 34:07Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And I don't know what the exact the correlation would be between like solo alone time and like being able to discover that next big idea. But if someone feels like they're just trying to fit it all in and like have a social life. And I often see these TikTok trends of the woman who's like, I'm folding laundry, trying to keep up with my friends, do my hair, keep up with my beauty routine, my workout routine, my work, my family. Like, how can they carve out time for drifting?

• 34:34Speaker 02

  It's about changing your schedule. So if you feel like you don't have any time in the day, wake up 30 minutes earlier, wake up 45 minutes earlier, or look at your screen time and separate it into those three categories, productive, mindless and fun. If you have two hours of mindless screen time a day, make that go to an hour and take that hour and do something else with it. That's a big piece of it. There's always time that we can find in our days to drift or to do things. It may not be every single day, but it it the time can be found. The number one thing I say is don't over schedule your days. Allow yourself, when you're on vacation, like have bookends or have like a dinner plan, but let yourself just drift. And that's what I do. If I'm in Amsterdam, I'm like, I spend a lot of time there. I have a second office there and I'll sometimes be like, oh, this is the bookstore that I want to go to, but then I'll just like drift amongst the canals and, and just let yourself go and not, not have everything be so pre-scheduled.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  And then you come back from your vacation and you're not even relaxed.

• 35:21Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I am going to use this when my boyfriend on our next trip, who is a maximalist, asks me, what are the plans for the day? Because that's what I'm responsible for. I'm going to be like, we're drifting today, sweetie.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  And have one maximalist day and then the next, like, it's about balancing it, too.

• 35:35Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah, okay.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  I feel like when you're in a place one time and you're maybe not going to go back, you want to see things, but it's also like I, my husband has really helped me a lot with this because he's been everywhere. And so he has this great attitude of like, we'll come back.

• 35:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Exactly. Like, you don't have to fit everything in.

• 35:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, we don't have to fit everything in. And even if you won't go back, you don't have to see everything.

• 35:53Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You talk a lot about maximizing your schedule, though, and I'm very interested in your expert opinion on your use of AI.

• 35:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How do you feel like AI can actually help people achieve all of the tips and the things that we're telling them to do to have these better relationships and time in their life?

• 36:08Speaker 02

  So I actually talk about AI a decent amount in my work, which is surprising to some people because my podcast is called Progression to Analog and I speak a lot about analog and I, you know, wake up before going on my phone. But I've spoken at World Summit AI in Amsterdam and the Responsible AI Forum in Munich and a lot of other conferences on what's called a socio-technical approach to AI. What it means is that we're jointly optimizing for people and technology. We're making sure that there is an optimal amount of technology in our everyday so that it is balancing the human and technology. And that's a really important thing to think about, whether we're thinking about it on a macro level. So with companies, I sometimes help them, okay, you want to start with AI, but you can't do everything at once, right? Like, you, you just can't. Where do you start? What's one problem that you can solve for? But in your everyday life personally, that's

• 36:50Speaker 02

  a big piece of it. It's like, what, what are one or two things that AI might be able to help, but also realizing that AI is not going to solve or fix or do everything perfectly. One example I like to give is that, so if I'm writing an academic paper or a paper for a client and I'm, I usually do my citations in Sociological, in American Sociological Association, you have to switch to another citation. That would have taken me hours and hours and hours and hours. Now you can do that really quickly with AI. But then you can use that time to then daydream, to drift, to do other things. So that's the ideal situation, I think, with AI is that we're, we're Reducing the amount of time that we have manual labor or tasks and then we can use that time to daydream or to drift. The problem I see with it is that people over rely on it, overuse it.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  Also, look at it as a source of objective truth, which there's a lot of bias and, you know, the same biases that humans have and sometimes just things that aren't fully there with AI. And so that's a scary piece of what I see is just using it to solve and fix and do everything. It's like, oh, you know, let me just put out 20 pieces of content and have AI spit out all these things. I mean, as recently as a couple of weeks ago, I was still testing it. It hallucinates a lot. It gives you a lot of incorrect information.

• 38:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Oh, no, I fully put in a YouTube video yesterday to try to see like, how did they structure this out?

• 38:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:05Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And it gave me the wrong name of the creator back.

• 38:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:07Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And I was like, are we watching the same video?

• 38:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:10Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I literally said that to them.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:12Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So there isn't like, it's not a source of truth right now.

• 38:13Speaker 02

  No.

• 38:14Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Well, and this is what I think is really dangerous around creators and I guess just like how the algorithm works is that you can have a hook to a video that's very polarizing and isn't necessarily going to be true, but if our attention spans like six to eight seconds and you don't actually end up watching the full video, there's a really big fashion creator who used to also work in banking that put out this video that was like, I don't believe in using AI. You're getting rid of all of your critical thinking. And it was like using this trend to kind of like tear down AI, which I see that side, but I also see the side where if you aren't encouraging your followers to explore and learn how to prompt and like understand where this is going, you are going to fall behind.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:52Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Someone that's listening to this that wants to start incorporating AI into their everyday life, like where do you suggest that they go to even learn? Like, how do they prompt? What are they doing? Like, how can they become more familiar with it?

• 39:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I actually just interviewed this amazing guy, Jonathan McCray, on my podcast and he is in Ireland and he has this whole thing called Get Started with AI where he talks a lot about what can you do? There's tools like Stanford Storm or obviously OpenAI's tools that you can start experimenting with, but I think it's about thinking, where are there parts of your everyday life that you would like to reduce the amount of time that you spend on those tasks? And where could you figure out ways to move forward in that? So it is that sociotechnical approach. It's like, what can I do? So one example of that might be, okay, I have all these content ideas and I have, I've already flushed them out myself, right? Like I've written 30 of them. Let me one by one say, hey, would this work with an audience of X or what are ways that you might critique this?

• 39:47Speaker 02

  I think looking at, we like to, there's been a lot of studies also that have shown that we like to get. We like AI to be really nice to us, right? Like, we also anthropomorphize AI and we treat it really nicely. Actually, challenge it and kind of be a little mean to it and ask it for critical input and critical thinking and critical thought. And that's where you can get some value from it. It's really asking it to be kind of a critic of some of your ideas or some of your thoughts.

• 40:10Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You've been teasing a new book on how smartphones are reshaping intimacy and communication.

• 40:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:16Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What is the book's core argument?

• 40:17Speaker 02

  It's that smartphones affect our everyday life, work, and relationships. And actually, what's interesting is that I won't know the book's core argument until we get a lot of the data back because I'm trying to do one of the largest studies on smartphones that has been done before in understanding people's, the way that people use it on an everyday basis and how people feel good about their relationship with their smartphone and also where those challenges lie and getting really into the nitty gritty pieces of it.

• 40:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Are you allowed to share what your hypothesis is before you get the data back?

• 40:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, so right now, what we're seeing is that there's, people have complicated relationships with their smartphones. And one of the, one of, there's two big problems that people find with their smartphones. One was within work communication. It is a really big thing that I'm seeing with people so far is that they feel really overwhelmed and they feel like workplace communication is the root of some of their trouble with their smartphones. They say, "I would like to take time off my phone, but I have to be on all the time to respond to my work email. And then, once I open my phone for my work email, I'm just back on social media and I'm back on." And so, one of the things I actually do with my organization is I help with making workplace communication better and reducing the number of channels that you have because it's just not efficient. But you look at the responses and people really feel like, "I'm always on." I mean, think about work in like the 70s and 80s, you would just go home. I mean, it's so different.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  And actually, there's a lot of data, like some of my research was just cited in a Harvard Business Review book, and it talks about how more tech, more time with technology doesn't always mean more productivity. And so, that's really interesting finding that I'm seeing is that people are saying that this workplace communication is too much. It's, "I'm on a call with a client and then also getting a Teams notification, also getting an email, and like, this needs to be streamlined." And so, communication norms is a big piece of this, is figuring out, "Okay, this is for this channel and this is for this channel." Asynchronous communication or texting for exchanges of information and synchronous dialogue for ideation, creation, or connection. So, that's a, that's a big thing.

• 42:01Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So, you founded Authentic Social.

• 42:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:04Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Can you just describe to the listeners, like, What you guys do and who the ideal client is.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we're an applied research lab with intersection of sociology and technology. And few things, so I speak around the US and Europe about technologies effect on conversation, relationships, things like that. So bigger conferences, I'm writing a book right now. Also, we do workplace design and focus a lot on how technology affects communication, conversation, and the way that employees can feel their most productive, but also feel their best selves at work. So we've worked with companies like, again, Herman Miller's parent company, Miller & Knowles, Salesforce, a lot of other big companies on how can we optimize this workflow. And so where I used to be is we used to work with companies for like three or so years. And sometimes now we just go in for a quarter, or even sometimes companies will say, you know, for two hours, can we just work with you and look at our communication styles, look at the way that we're working, and help us figure out what

• 42:51Speaker 02

  we're doing. So I have these four principles of socio-technical design, where I first look at everyday conversation, how people are communicating, then companies' technology use, then the sense of place and where people are working and how they're working. And then number four, which is really the most important, is understanding companies, understanding your employees' experience on an everyday basis. And so using something called ethnomethodology. And really, it's this branch of sociology that I study that is really just focused on the everyday, because a lot of employees, or a lot of companies, don't have any idea what their employees do on an everyday basis.

• 43:19Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  On a macro level, they're like, yeah, they're doing this, this, this. And so how I justify my spend is I'll go into an organization, and when I worked at LinkedIn, I was top there in terms of business development reps, and I did this churn reduction toolkit that we use company-wide. And one of the things I will go in and say is, hey, if we can reduce your spend on technology, you know, you might be overspending by $12 million a year in softwares that your employees aren't using, that you could actually wrap these into. So that's right away how we can go in and justify our spend, and then figure out, okay, how can we make people want to stay at the company? Because also, attrition rates is something else that we see, you know, it really hurts companies. And doing all these things, it's nice because it helps the employee experience, but it also is directly tied to a company's bottom line and how they're actually working. And so I like the workplace design piece, and I like having part of my job be research, where I'm just going and

• 44:05Speaker 02

  presenting this research. I was in Sweden the week before my wedding, and just all these different places. But having the academic piece and then having the practical piece is a nice kind of way to work together, because companies always know that they're getting the fresh research and perspective.

• 44:18Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Kaylin, we're going to do some rapid fire, which I feel like will be really fun with you. TikTok or Instagram for the rest of your life, you can only pick one?

• 44:24Speaker 02

  TikTok.

• 44:26Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Love it. Text, voice note, or FaceTime?

• 44:29Speaker 02

  Voice note.

• 44:31Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Is that from a family or a work colleague?

• 44:34Speaker 02

  Ooh. That's from a, that's from a fan, hmm, it's from a work colleague.

• 44:38Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah, I agree. FaceTime for a friend.

• 44:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, FaceTime for a friend.

• 44:41Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, who is your favorite comfort creator?

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Comfort creator? Hmm. You. I love your stuff, really. I really do.

• 44:49Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Thank you.

• 44:50Speaker 02

  I think it's, I think you really strike a lot of chords with people and you show a lot about, just, I like HSR because it's like all the different parts of us. And there was that one podcast you were on in December where you said, one thing you'd add to Hot, Smart, Rich is happy. And I like that. I think that that's encapsulated in everything that you do.

• 45:05Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That is so nice. And I wouldn't say you're my favorite comfort creator, but you're my favorite educational creator.

• 45:09Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 45:09Maggie Sellers Reum?

  When I found your content, I just loved the way you communicate really complex things into a very digestible way.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  That's my goal.

• 45:18Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, you can only read one book for the rest of your life?

• 45:23Speaker 02

  The Society of the Spectacle by Gidebor. Oh, actually, or The Revolution of Everyday Life by Ray O'Vanagum. They're the two situationists that I'm most obsessed with. But on a little tin, like, they have two very different outlooks on life, but those are my two favorites.

• 45:35Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay. Read receipts off or on?

• 45:39Speaker 02

  On.

• 45:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Really?

• 45:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:41Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  Well, actually, okay, it's not a binary answer. I, I have it like on with some people and off with some people's. So if you're seeing, if you're watching this and you don't see them, I have them turned off for you.

• 45:54Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Muting or unfollowing people?

• 45:56Speaker 02

  Both. I think I have, I had a situation recently where I'm not friends in real life with the person and I don't, I don't think it serves either one of us to, to be connected that way.

• 46:08Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So you unfollowed?

• 46:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did. But I, we, we spoke about it. So actually, the first time that I've ever had to do that was, it was a couple of months ago.

• 46:17Maggie Sellers Reum?

  In real life or Zoom meeting?

• 46:18Speaker 02

  In real life. Oh, my gosh. Not even a contest.

• 46:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That's why I would never record the podcast online.

• 46:24Speaker 02

  No, Zoom meetings too, you're understimulated. That's why you're looking at a million things. There was a study that came out recently that says you're actually underst, that's why you're looking around. It's, it's too much. I'm, I, I would so much rather an in-person meeting. I'd fly anywhere to go see someone for 30 minutes than to, no, I hate it.

• 46:37Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay. What is one app that you would keep on your phone for the rest of your life, but it's the only one you can leverage?

• 46:43Speaker 02

  Oh. Besides like iMessage?

• 46:45Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  That's so hard. Has to be just Spotify. Listen to music.

• 46:49Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And the HSR Podcast.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. You can learn and listen to music and I feel like it reminds me of just like the iPod days.

• 46:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 46:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:58Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Caitlin, I had so much fun talking to you today. Where can people find you?

• 47:02Speaker 02

  They can find me on TikTok, on LinkedIn, on Instagram, pretty much anywhere.

• 47:07Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What's your username?

• 47:08Speaker 02

  Username on Instagram is K D B E C A I T Y B. TikTok is Katie Bag, C A I T Y B E G G. But my name Caitlin Bag, there's a few other Caitlin Bags, but when you Google, I should come up.

• 47:19Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Thank you so much for coming on HSR. What can people in the community do to help you right now?

• 47:24Speaker 02

  Well, also my podcast, Progression to Analog, is every week and we have lots of different ways about exploring a more human every day and taking some of the TikToks that I do and putting them into more long form and also interviewing guests on how we can integrate technology into our lives, but in a more human way. So if you're looking to say, get involved more with AI or have a better relationship with your phone, there's all the different scope of topics.

• 47:44Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Caitlyn, thank you so much for coming on HSR.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  So much fun.

• 47:46Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So much fun. And HSR, please make sure that you rate, review, subscribe, go follow Caitlyn, go listen to her podcast and we will see you next week. Bye.

• 48:04Maggie Sellers Reum?

  If you're starting a business, there are certain things that are so fun to think about. Y'all know I love a mood board, so everything that relates to the creative, the name, the brand, the website, the vision board. But then there are the things that make you pause and ask, am I even doing this correctly or do I even want to be doing this? Like forming your business, getting the right documents, keeping your personal information private. This is where our sponsor, Northwest Registered Agent, is so helpful. They're a one-stop shop for founders who want to launch and legitimize their business without turning it into a giant admin spiral. They help you form an LLC or a corporation, act as your registered agent and give you tools like a business address, operating agreement, website, phone number, professional email and free guides.

• 48:48Maggie Sellers Reum?

  They also have real corporate guides who know your local laws. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree.

• 49:09Speaker 04

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