Jude Law

Jude Law (The Order, Skeleton Crew, Sherlock Holmes) is an actor. Jude joins the Armchair Expert to discuss why he feels like he cries more than he used to, how he has become an unapologetic enthusiast, and having to tap into different parts of your personality for different roles. Jude and Dax talk about him finding his confidence when he joined theater, what it’s like to work with great directors, and how important Mike Nichols was to him. Jude explains the chemistry with RDJ on set of Sherlock Holmes, what having a behavioral psychologist for a wife is like, and how traumatic it was to have his phone hacked. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Ms. Monica Law.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  What's that?

• 0:10Dax Shepard?

  If your name was Monica Law and you were like a, you were like a DA in a town.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  I would have, if that was my last name, I would have no choice but to go into either law enforcement or

• 0:22Dax Shepard?

  Prosecution.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  Yes, or Supreme Court.

• 0:25Dax Shepard?

  Or Supreme Court, or physics. There's a lot of laws.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  Or that, oh sure, sure.

• 0:31Dax Shepard?

  Jude Law, though, is not a failure, despite not going into jurisprudence. I just want to make that very clear. He is a Tony and Academy Award nominated actor. The Tale of Mr. Ripley, The Holiday, Sherlock Holmes, Fantastic Beasts, Cold Mountain, and a movie that he is truly, from the bottom of my heart, spectacular and chameleon. This happens once in a while. It certainly happened with Vice. Do you remember Cheney? And you're like, you're trying to find

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Christian

• 0:59Dax Shepard?

  Christian Bale in there. And you're like, is that, is he in there? Jude pulls that off in this. He's, it's such a kind of departure from what we've seen, and it's really a great movie. It's called The Order, and it is out December 6. Okay, so it's a good bit of lead time. Put that in your calendar now. Also, he has a new series coming out on 12/3. He has a very busy December. He has Skeleton Crew, is in the Star Wars universe on Disney+

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Busy Bee.

• 1:24Dax Shepard?

  Lot of blessings he's giving us. Please enjoy Jude Law. We get support from Quince.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about the fact that the holidays are already here? It's crazy. I feel like I blinked and now we're in gifting season, which I'm not really mad about because I do love giving gifts. And Quince is making it so easy to find something great for everyone on my list, including myself, because let's be honest, self-gifting is a love language.

• 1:50Dax Shepard?

  Quince is seriously the gift that keeps on giving. Their high-quality staples are made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14 karat gold, and Italian leather. Full-on luxury quality at prices that won't wreck your holiday budget.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  It's the dream. The cashmere sweater, starting at $60, down jacket. Wool outerwear, cashmere accessories. You and everyone on your list are staying cozy and looking incredible all season long.

• 2:17Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm gonna tell you this, it just got chilly for the first time this year in California. And I'm so excited and I'm wearing my Quince cashmere right now.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 2:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I am going to gift this to some of my friends. I hope they're not listening.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  Quince is also more than clothing. They've got fine jewelry for your significant other, leather bags for your bestie, hotel quality bedding to set up your guest rooms, chef-grade cookware. That's an amazing thing they offer here. And it's such a good gift because people don't like buying cookware for themselves, but it's very important. And they also have five-star luggage, another good gift that people don't like buying for themselves.

• 2:51Dax Shepard?

  Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. This episode is brought to you by McDonald's. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Medium Fries and a Drink is now $8.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  What?

• 3:23Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I need to talk about something that doesn't get enough respect. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese. This is not a casual burger. This is a crafted burger. We're talking 100% fresh beef cooked right when you order it. No artificial flavors, no fillers, no preservatives, just beef doing what beef is supposed to do. And here's a detail I love. There's a cowbell sound in the kitchen. When somebody orders a Quarter Pounder with Cheese, a cowbell goes off and the grill master throws a fresh patty down. That's like having your own entrance music at McDonald's. I want a cowbell for everything in life. The onions are hand-topped by someone who just knows the right amount. Two slices of cheese laid out in a star pattern, so every single bite gets cheese. And two pickles side by side, so you're never in a pickle desert.

• 4:07Dax Shepard?

  Every bite is accounted for. Someone engineered this thing with love. I love a Quarter Pounder.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  Me too. That's my order. It's a Quarter Pounder with cheese. I love it. I didn't know they put So much effort that they did a star formation. I should have known because you can taste.

• 4:25Dax Shepard?

  You can taste it. Yeah. The love. Don't tell anyone this, but I'll put two of them back.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not surprised.

• 4:31Dax Shepard?

  The Quarter Pounder with cheese with fries and a drink now $8 for a limited time only, only at McDonald's. For a limited time only, prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California and for delivery. Fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii. Offer not valid for delivery.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  I'm a little fatigued and a little frazzly kind of jet laggy, slightly over emotional. Oh, God, that's what we mean.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Oh, we love. That's great for us.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  Over emotional. You got me right at.

• 5:17Dax Shepard?

  Over emotional is a perfect.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  That's our sweet spot.

• 5:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I start crying.

• 5:23Dax Shepard?

  Oh, let's hope. Fingers, fingers crossed.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  Have you had, have you had any tears?

• 5:27Dax Shepard?

  Oh, God, yeah.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Plenty.

• 5:28Dax Shepard?

  I've cried in here several times.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  But our guest too, we got a lot.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  I've never heard anyone cry on it. I feel like I've missed out.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'll give you some Anna Kendrick.

• 5:36Dax Shepard?

  Give you a hit list.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  Number one.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  I just read an interview with her in an English paper and she cried twice in the article.

• 5:43Dax Shepard?

  Ah, well, she's very emotionally, it's there on the surface. Yeah. Are you jealous of that? Because I did not allow myself to cry for about 30 years. And then I think with having kids and a friend went to the hospital and it started.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  This comes.

• 5:58Dax Shepard?

  But I'm like, yes, give it all to me. I really would love a full. I haven't had that yet. Yeah, like ugly face, embarrassed. Yeah.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  I thought you had it when you watched one of those female docs.

• 6:11Dax Shepard?

  The Sinead O'Connor one, I was just like pouring tears and then I do this thing again, because I beat it out of myself. When I start, I go, I start laughing uncontrollably. So it was a mix of laughing and crying. What's your history with crying?

• 6:28Speaker 02

  Good question. So there was definitely. Only a time and it's funny, isn't it? How it's related sometimes to being an actor? You want to be able to cry as an actor. And then the first time, if you're a kid and you're being asked to do it, it's kind of nerve wracking. And then you, you squeeze out a couple and you're really pleased. As a person, I was always emotional, but not a weeper. I am now. I just cry all the time.

• 6:49Dax Shepard?

  What are your?

• 6:50Speaker 02

  Pleasure. When I'm happy, when I get just moved, music, film, my kids, of course. I can genuinely now really empathize with characters I play and I can just tune in and it can just pour out.

• 7:03Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 7:04Speaker 02

  I'm on the brink of being a bit gushy.

• 7:06Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  I need to rein it in a touch.

• 7:09Dax Shepard?

  In life or in performing?

• 7:12Speaker 02

  Both. And I worry that that maybe is also to do with, I just feel like I've been tired for two years.

• 7:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I was looking at your slate of things we're here to talk about. I don't know how you made them, but there's no way we can even get through all the shit that's coming out. I mean, there's three big, big, big projects all landing around the same time.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Couple of them were very small when I made them. They had big ambition and they're being received in such a generous way that now I'm like, oh, it's going to be a busy year.

• 7:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but the smaller ones that can be more draining.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  Yes. Well, you're less time, less money because they're small. They're usually high content of cerebral demand.

• 7:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. In the morning you're crying, in the evening you're kicking someone's ass and then you're making love at lunch. Like, fuck, I've done everything a human can do.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 7:55Dax Shepard?

  In 10 hours.

• 7:56Speaker 02

  And I could do it again tomorrow.

• 7:58Dax Shepard?

  And we have 22 days and if we get bad weather, we're fucked. So you have the anxiety of it all.

• 8:03Speaker 02

  I just did a film with Ron Howard. We had a very tight budget and tight schedule. And he said the funniest thing, he said his plan B was shoot faster. That was all it was like, there was no cover. Just go, go, go.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  And that's Ron Howard.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  That was Ron.

• 8:17Dax Shepard?

  Well, that movie, fuck it, we're right here. That is also a very un Ron Howard movie.

• 8:22Speaker 02

  Yes, it is. It's Ron in that well deserved chapter of his life, doing exactly what he wants to do. It's a project he was curious about for, I think nearly 15 years. And it was a tricky one to get made.

• 8:34Dax Shepard?

  It's like a modern Lord of the Flies ish.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  It's set in the 30s. Actually, it's a true story about a. Group of idealists led by this very eccentric doctor that I played. This guy saw the rise of fascism coming and wanted to get away. He was an obsessed Nietzsche fan, and so he bought a little piece of land on the Galapagos and moved there and lived literally like Adam and Eve for three years with his girlfriend. Made everything by hand, caught rainwater to drink by grew crops, meditated. And then he wrote these articles about his life, sent them back and they got published. And he became unbeknownst to him, kind of a bit of a celebrity. And suddenly all these acolytes turned up because the last thing he wanted was anyone to be there.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  So suddenly his family arrived and then this bizarre woman arrived who claimed to be a baroness who wanted to take over the island, they ended up killing each other.

• 9:26Dax Shepard?

  So it's real?

• 9:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:28Dax Shepard?

  That story's true.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  All the characters are real, yeah.

• 9:30Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  And this is how extreme the personalities are. Ritter, who I play, extracted all his own teeth before he left because he didn't want any dental issues and wore metal dentures to eat with. So I have these metal teeth and he was a nudist. So he's sort of strolling around butt naked most of the time.

• 9:48Dax Shepard?

  With bionic teeth?

• 9:49Speaker 02

  Right, with bionic teeth.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  I mean, the characters in it are larger than life and highly unlikable for most of it. I found thrilling.

• 9:57Dax Shepard?

  It looks awesome, but it also doesn't look like any previous Ron Howard movie at all. But it looks fantastic. People are loving that one, right?

• 10:05Speaker 02

  We debuted it, I think it's divisive. I think it's a challenging piece. I think it's not a spoon feeder. The characters are unusual. What they do to each other is pretty dark, but there's a really pure message in it. There are these three camps in the end. One is very much led by the head, one by the balls and one by the heart. And it's very much about where and what we need to do to survive today. That's really what's at the heart of it. What do we need to listen to in ourselves to survive this crazy world?

• 10:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 10:34Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now back to your crime.

• 10:37Dax Shepard?

  Do you have a couple? I'll just start. So I have two that are gonna guarantee set me off. One is when people are incredibly earnest in the face of how hard it is to be earnest. The Olympians were flying to the Olympics, some team, and they decided to reenact the video for Call Me Crazy, But Here's My Number. So call me baby. And they had choreographed it on the plane and the cameras moving. Everyone jumps out of their seat and they're singing.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  It's just a group dance.

• 11:08Dax Shepard?

  Yes, group dancing, group dancing, this wedding proposal that was very much like that. I'm like, you know, there's so many assholes in the world that want to fucking beat you down for expressing that exact kind of thing. And when I see people be brave enough to just do it anyways, I start crying. I'm like, that is so sweet that in this mean ass world, you still sing Call Me Crazy?

• 11:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And there's an unapologetic joy and innocence, actually. It's people just going, I'm having fun. Not the sort of cynical, yeah, but am I cool? I get that. Absolutely.

• 11:39Dax Shepard?

  Hey, how well do you understand American schools and how much were the English schools like it? My junior high, you just got fucking beat down if you showed any earnestness or you declared you liked something?

• 11:51Speaker 02

  Oh, same in the UK.

• 11:52Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  I thought that was a very British thing. Enthusiasm? No way.

• 11:56Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  I mean, to be passionate and kind of get all over excited and people then be looking at you going, calm down.

• 12:02Dax Shepard?

  You were emasculated by liking something.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  That's right. That's very familiar to my experience of growing up, actually, because I am an enthusiast. I've realized and unapologetically so, the older I get, I love allowing my enthusiasm to burst forth and sharing it. And I love seeing it in my kids, you know, I love it when they get over excited about stuff. But it is interesting, looking back over childhood.

• 12:24Dax Shepard?

  Do you have any daughters that are consuming Taylor Swift in front of you?

• 12:28Speaker 02

  Actually, I do. She said to me just the other day, she was number one.

• 12:31Dax Shepard?

  I urge you to watch the era's movie with her.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  And experience it.

• 12:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I took my 11 year old to the theater to watch it. And about six minutes in, I stopped watching the movie and just stared at her in profile and wept the whole time.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  What is that zeitgeist that she's plugged into? It's very interesting, isn't it? Because I think I'm right in saying it's not planned. She's not manipulated it.

• 12:53Dax Shepard?

  It's very authentic and real.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  She's just so relatable to all eras of women and ages of women. As you said, it's not manufactured.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  No.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  But she is a brilliant business person.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  They can coexist, right?

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Authenticity and then just being able to see it as a business and monetize it.

• 13:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, Pulp Fiction was still a hit.

• 13:15Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  And it's still genius and it's pure. It's just, she knows, oh, this is how I connect. And she likes to, she talks to people, she holds these singing events for big fans. Like she really is connected and people feel very seen.

• 13:29Dax Shepard?

  I have seen the movie with my daughter and I went and saw her live. And so my conclusion, I think there's three things. One is she isn't Beyonce. Beyonce is this creature that fell out of the sky and she looks like that and she dances like that. And most people can't ever imagine themselves being that. So there's this kind of, wow, so how did she get there? Well, she got there through her gumption and hard work and her skills as a writer and her dedication. I could do that. I could be a star. That's, I think, a big part of the appeal. And then she might be the only true matriarchy that we can observe, that a little girl can observe, which is it's her fucking world. She's got the biggest tour in the world. She makes the rules.

• 14:13Dax Shepard?

  That's a fucking woman in total charge of everything. She's like her own one woman matriarchy. And I think that's really powerful.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  Using it either.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  No.

• 14:24Dax Shepard?

  Yet.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. We're just in the foothills of this.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 14:30Dax Shepard?

  They'll be a hot pool boy at some point.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  It's linked also to something you just mentioned, which is the Olympic team performing in an unabashed way. There's also something uncool, weirdly, because of course she's ultimately cool. But there's also something uncool about her.

• 14:44Dax Shepard?

  I couldn't agree more.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  Which makes her incredibly cool. It's like, I'm having fun and I'm doing what I want to do. It's not considered to the element of like, hmm, is this going to be seen as being overly considered?

• 14:54Dax Shepard?

  I think it's just very different than the other pop stars they were given, which are largely you either hit the genetic lottery or you didn't. I think that's very special.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:04Dax Shepard?

  What thing are your kids into that you've joined them in and kind of got wrapped up in? Cause for me, it's this Swift thing, like I went, I get it, I'm in.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  Well, my two little ones, Bluey.

• 15:15Dax Shepard?

  Bluey, I'm hearing that.

• 15:17Speaker 02

  I weep at Bluey. I love Bluey.

• 15:19Dax Shepard?

  You do. Tell me what happens in Bluey. That came right after my kids left that space, nine and 11.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. So at an age where suddenly actually that is for little ones and they're not quite old enough to realize actually they can indulge themselves like a 50 year old guy.

• 15:32Dax Shepard?

  Right. But you're the second adult I've heard say they love Bluey.

• 15:34Speaker 02

  Bluey is, at its heart, it's about families playing together and enjoying each other's company and making time for each other. And coming up with crazy make believe games. And then there's occasionally little morals at the end of it, the kids teach the parents something. Or the parents teach the kids something, or some kind of equation within that. It's got really good humor and great heart and it's made in Australia and it's about an Aussie family of dogs. And it's got this beautiful Aussie grounded earthiness and humanity. And they embrace the dad, Bandit, wonderfully.

• 16:11Dax Shepard?

  Bandit.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  He's not an idiot. You know, it's interesting, if you look at quite a few of those kids shows, even Simpsons early on.

• 16:18Dax Shepard?

  There's a trope.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  And Peppa, the dad's a bit of an idiot.

• 16:21Dax Shepard?

  He's a dud.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  Oh, dad. And in this one, Bandit, they laugh at him and he is kind of smelly old dad, which, you know, is familiar to me. But he's right in the middle of the play and right in the middle of kind of being a bit of a hero too. It's just got beautiful heart. They know the parents are watching and they know that parents need to be entertained too because kids are gonna wanna watch this every day if they're allowed.

• 16:41Dax Shepard?

  Those are such blessings when you can enjoy it.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, so Bluey wrapped us up pretty tight as a little troupe.

• 16:48Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna give it a viewing. I wanna see.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  It's well worth it. It's well worth it.

• 16:53Dax Shepard?

  I bet I'll cry.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  If I walk in and you're like just on your own watching Bluey.

• 16:58Speaker 02

  That's me.

• 17:00Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so if England is like the US in smacking down earnestness, you start acting at 14?

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Kinda.

• 17:07Dax Shepard?

  Because people ask me like, did you know? I'm like, I stayed so far away from that drama department. I didn't wanna get beat up by six guys.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  I was doing it out of school. It was more to do with my family. So my parents were teachers, but they were keen members of a local theater company. They were putting on plays and my house was always full of people kinda rehearsing. And then I got involved as a kid and my sister got involved as a kid. And it was just something we did. So to me, it was this language that just felt very familiar and safe and fun. And I loved watching adults goofing around and you were aware like, oh, adults play as well. They can be silly and it made them really human and magical in a weird way because it felt like play. I said magical, I suppose in that sort of Peter Pan type way that it just felt like, oh, you don't have to necessarily grow up with earnestness or with some kind of sobriety. It could be goofy, but I left school at 17 to act.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  So at school, school, I kept to myself. I was usually hiding under the stairs so I didn't get beat up.

• 17:59Dax Shepard?

  For real?

• 18:00Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, for real. That's where I had my lunch.

• 18:01Dax Shepard?

  Okay, hold on a second. Were you? We've had this in the past.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  You've had one or two of you.

• 18:08Speaker 02

  The way you said that was like, it's okay, you're safe.

• 18:10Dax Shepard?

  I feel like the appetizer just arrived and it smells delicious. We've had some heart throbs on that didn't necessarily identify with that when they were younger. And that's a very fascinating thing.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  I get it. I look back now. I was very pretty. I was called Jude. I wanted to be an actor and I was also pretty cocky. I fancied myself a bit.

• 18:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 18:31Speaker 02

  But you can't fight the whole school. So after a while, you realize it's probably better to stay out of the way, especially when you're like 14 and the 18 year olds kinda

• 18:41Dax Shepard?

  That's the problem.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  Just want you to shut the fuck up.

• 18:43Dax Shepard?

  Also, when I was young and older girls like me, those older boys.

• 18:46Speaker 02

  Big problem.

• 18:46Dax Shepard?

  Fucking kill me.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  Older girls fancying this weird little kid, they don't get that.

• 18:51Dax Shepard?

  What's funny is what they like about you is that you're kind of artsy. So the solution to the other boys their age is like, I'm gonna beat the shit out of them, show the opposite quality that she just told me she likes.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 19:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 19:03Speaker 02

  I just squash him with my manhood. Under the stairs. It's taken me a while to remember that and I was talking about it, I think to one of my kids and suddenly I remembered sitting under the stairs. And I had my friends with me, a couple of buddies who would come sit with me under the stairs, but it was just a lot easier. There's a funny thing about that relationship with the opposite sex at that age, because it's so uncharted. You don't really know what you're getting into. All the stimulation that you're getting is firing, but you don't necessarily know what it's leading to. Yeah. I'm talking pre-sex, obviously. That moment where you're getting something back, so that's good. What you're talking about is bringing something out of you. You can't even at that age necessarily say, I'm good at this, or this is what I'm gonna be, or this is why people like, you know what I mean?

• 19:48Speaker 02

  It's all just happening. You're suddenly alive.

• 19:50Dax Shepard?

  I found that girls were such a refuge from the boy-ness. I'm with dudes all the time and I'm jumping my bicycle and I'm have to fight this other kid. And then I talk to these girls and I could just be this whole other side of myself.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  And I love that side of myself. I have a fantastic big sister who was so generous with me.

• 20:08Dax Shepard?

  Natasha?

• 20:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's a painter and she's just an awesome human being, but I look back now, I can't believe how generous she was with me. And she'd take me out with her girlfriends, take me to their parties. And that was a taste of what you're talking about and a really influential mother too, who was loving. But you're so right and really looking back and discussing it like this, so sad that there are these poor guys who had no idea that that side of themselves existed or weren't allowed to show it, or had any interest perhaps in investigating it. Just wanted to be the girl. Cause I like that too. I was good at sport. I didn't mind a fight. I like getting my head bust falling off things, but I love this other side too. And that to me made me good and whole.

• 20:49Dax Shepard?

  You were cute. You had an older sister. That's the biggest hack any boy can have is to have an older sister. Every boy I knew with an older sister. Did just fine.

• 20:57Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 20:57Dax Shepard?

  But think of all these boys that weren't confident or they weren't good looking. It wasn't even an option for them.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  They go home and their dad is like, don't do that.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  One male to the next just passes it on. That's right. Don't show that. You're weak.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, don't let anyone see that.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  Let anyone see.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  Put that doll away. And then, yeah, it just continues on and on until someone breaks that cycle.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, breaking the cycle, that's a big part of my family because my parents were both adopted.

• 21:20Dax Shepard?

  Both.

• 21:21Speaker 02

  Both were adopted. My dad actually literally is like something out of Charles Dickens, his childhood. And he had every excuse to be a total nightmare of a father because it was in his background. His life was one of being left behind, of being abandoned and sort of having nothing. He just turned out to be the most incredible dad, completely.

• 21:42Dax Shepard?

  Loved the family, devoted to it, to the point actually where it was like, let me go.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  Let me go. My mom too. I bring up my parents a lot because I get really pissed off when people say, oh, well, this is what happened to their parents. It's a psych. I'm like, you know what? That's a fucking excuse. You can always better yourself. You can always replace something or don't have to repeat something. I looked at him, he had it so tough. He had nothing and he totally turned it around.

• 22:08Dax Shepard?

  But it also makes sense if he didn't have that built in family, that he would have cherished the one he built and not taken for granted because he didn't have it. And he was the youngest schoolmaster in London?

• 22:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, something like that at the time. Now, head teachers in the UK are very different to principals. They are still very much part of the teaching team and part of the ethos of the education environment and create more of the atmosphere of the school. And he was a very hands-on teacher. And that was in the seventies. He worked in an inner city school in an area of London where there was a big black community. And he would just be like, who wants to go camping this weekend? And kids would just meet, he'd take me to and we'd just drive out of the city and go camping. Eight kids, 10 kids. That can't happen nowadays. Nowadays it's like you need all the documentation.

• 22:53Dax Shepard?

  I hate to say it, I'm not letting my male teacher take.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  No, no, sure.

• 22:57Dax Shepard?

  You were the good guy.

• 22:59Speaker 02

  He did it with my mom.

• 23:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 23:01Speaker 02

  They went as a couple.

• 23:02Dax Shepard?

  If they were both teachers, how did they feel about you dropping out of school?

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Well, they were passionate about theater and passionate about performance. So they knew that I was. And when the opportunity arose, the one conversation I remember us having was, look, if this doesn't work, will you go back? And I was like, of course.

• 23:19Dax Shepard?

  Did you leave for the soap opera?

• 23:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, you done your homework.

• 23:22Dax Shepard?

  Listen to me. One of my favorite things to talk to actors about is actors who have been on soap operas. Because, at least in America, they shoot like a hundred pages a day.

• 23:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:33Dax Shepard?

  It seems like the most insane experience.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  If you think about it, what a great place to learn.

• 23:38Dax Shepard?

  Fuck, yes.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  I had done a bit of theater. I wanted to act. Someone saw something in me, asked me to audition for this thing. I auditioned, I got it. Next thing, exactly as you point out, I'm in this machine.

• 23:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  Churning out, demanding, I know what the hell is going on. I don't know what a mark is. Find your light? What are you talking about? And learn the lines and deliver.

• 23:58Dax Shepard?

  Do they have the same crazy schedule in England as they have here?

• 24:00Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:01Dax Shepard?

  And did they pay you okay? Were you like 17 going like, I'm fucking rich?

• 24:05Speaker 02

  We didn't have a lot, you know, we were never wanting as kids, but we didn't like, you know, have much money coming in.

• 24:11Dax Shepard?

  Teacher parents.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  I couldn't believe it.

• 24:12Dax Shepard?

  Yo, what were you doing with all that green?

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Did you spend any of it?

• 24:15Dax Shepard?

  Blowing it. Clothes or do you buy a cool car?

• 24:18Speaker 02

  No, I didn't drive for a while. A lot of records, clothes, just going out.

• 24:22Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. Bringing friends.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  Friends.

• 24:26Dax Shepard?

  Probably never got better.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  Oh, my goodness. I was 17, living in Manchester in 1988. The Hacienda was down the road. There was the rise of.

• 24:35Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, and you could drink at 17.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  Happy Mondays and it was a lot of fun.

• 24:39Speaker 01

  Suck it under the stairwell.

• 24:41Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  You came very far. Even then, you could have ended your career then and it would have still.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  From the stairwell.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:48Dax Shepard?

  So you were in Manchester making it. So you had your own flat, I presume?

• 24:52Speaker 02

  I did. I mean, can you imagine? And that they were paying for, you know, they paid my rent.

• 24:56Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my Lord.

• 24:58Speaker 02

  This is fun to talk about this. What's nice is with enough time passed, you look back and go, damn.

• 25:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And you want to run from it, right? I came out on a show called Punked, which was a reality show. And I didn't want anyone to bring that up for like 10 years.

• 25:11Speaker 02

  Isn't it funny? Cause it sits too close. It's like looking at photos of yourself when you're a kid and you've only just turned like 15. You're gonna go, I'm an adult now. I don't look like that anymore.

• 25:21Dax Shepard?

  I'm a big boy now.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. It was a very formative time and I love that you bring up the actual technical demands. They're a big part of what you're learning from. I went from that back to theater. I learned so much from that job.

• 25:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you probably shot more hours. Yes, it is.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Looks like beer, but it is water. Yeah.

• 25:41Dax Shepard?

  We can get one of those for you too. Really get you crying. Nine or 10 of them in you.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  I'm cheering up now. I'm gonna cry, I'm afraid. You're cheering me up too much.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Oh, man, Dax.

• 25:49Dax Shepard?

  But if you added it up in two years, you probably did more content than you did for the next eight years doing features.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  It's true. I did it for a good few years.

• 26:01Dax Shepard?

  You probably did several hundred hours of acting.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  And how was your ego then? Were you?

• 26:08Dax Shepard?

  Were you insufferable?

• 26:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think most people would have been at that age.

• 26:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, 17 with your own apartment. Going to the pub and you're fucking buying rounds.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  That's a really good question. And I'll be absolutely honest, one I've not kind of thought about. Oddly, actually, I think I would be right in saying that my ego was probably a little more out of control before I got that job. And I was a member of like the youth theater company. When I got into the theater and doing all this stuff as a kid, I felt so confident that I'd found my place and sort of fitted in. And it was so different to that experience of school. That suddenly I was like, I could fly. I knew I was pretty good at it.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  I knew I was good and that I was getting good parts and I was getting good response, but I wasn't in the professional domain. Once I'd stepped into that and there were adults suddenly in this show and there were people who had huge experience. I was always quick to sit back and be very happy to learn and watch. Having said that, I have a very clear memory of one of the women in it who was slightly older than me, just by a few years. But I remember telling me to cool my boots.

• 27:11Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really? But she was probably just nagging you because she liked you.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 27:16Dax Shepard?

  That's my guess in retrospect.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  I think she was probably right.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  But if it was like Cate Blanchett.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  Okay. Sorry.

• 27:24Dax Shepard?

  Well, you basically just described, you were like a star college athlete and then you got to the NBA and you're like, I need to recalculate just a bit. I'm gonna have to learn a bit.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  It's interesting too, isn't it? When you're a kid in an adult world, but you're being paid. So you're being treated like an adult, as you should be. I gotta really step up here. Behave like an adult, fit in like an adult, watch and learn.

• 27:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, they're not taking it easy on anyone.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  Not with that kind of.

• 27:50Dax Shepard?

  They don't have time.

• 27:51Speaker 02

  No.

• 27:51Dax Shepard?

  No, even if they wanted to.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  I remember being late once. I think it's like the only time I've ever been late because I could just tell it was not done and that's never happened again.

• 28:00Dax Shepard?

  Okay. So you leave that and then you get yourself in a play that ends up in the West End. And then ultimately Broadway with a different title and a little bit of reworking.

• 28:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:11Dax Shepard?

  You have a couple of kind of breakthroughs and that play certainly, yeah, you win a Laurence Olivier Award at some point.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  Or something like that. No.

• 28:19Dax Shepard?

  Newcomer Award.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  Newcomer Award. That was a game changer. I'd done a bunch of theater leading up to that in these wonderful, what we call off West End, like off Broadway theater houses around London. Most of them tended to be above pubs, but very famous theaters at the gate, the Royal Court upstairs and several others. That was a place I really learned my chops. I mean, that was doing proper theater with fantastic directors and actors around me and the discipline of theater, which is so much an actor's medium, learning how to turn up every night and deliver it and really feel the room. And that led to Le Parent Terrible, which I did at the National Theatre.

• 28:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And then it became into.

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Indiscretion.

• 28:59Dax Shepard?

  Indiscretion.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  They thought that the Broadway audience wouldn't understand Le Parent Terrible. So they called it indiscretion.

• 29:05Dax Shepard?

  They might've been right. Cause when I read the title of it this morning, I was like, I don't know what the fuck that means, but I know the deal.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  I said they should've just called it The Terrible Parents.

• 29:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there we go. I could've got on board with that. But then you go and you do it on Broadway and there's some great people in that cast, right?

• 29:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. They recast and asked me to join the cast.

• 29:25Dax Shepard?

  Were you the only person who went over?

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was a little awkward.

• 29:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Did you feel like survivor's guilt from that?

• 29:31Speaker 02

  I did. Only in front of the ones I was leaving behind.

• 29:35Dax Shepard?

  Then when you met these other folks, you're like, thank fucking god they replaced.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  It was an amazing experience actually doing it again because you know a piece and it's sort of in your system and then you get to re rehearse it, rediscover it with a whole new group of people.

• 29:49Dax Shepard?

  I have never noticed this about you in the past, but now that we're sitting face to face, you have the exact same eyes as Joaquin.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  Really?

• 29:58Dax Shepard?

  Has anyone ever told you that?

• 30:00Speaker 02

  No.

• 30:00Dax Shepard?

  Fuck, it's driving me wild.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 30:03Dax Shepard?

  Come on.

• 30:04Speaker 02

  That's interesting.

• 30:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. It's exciting.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  I don't really know Joaquin. I've met him a couple of times years ago. I don't really know him, know him.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  I'm surprised you guys haven't worked together.

• 30:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that would be.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  I hope so.

• 30:16Dax Shepard?

  There's not a flame retardant enough lens to capture them both in a two shot without the thing fucking exploding, that's why.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Although, he's been in the movie with my boyfriend.

• 30:25Dax Shepard?

  Oh, we're gonna get to that.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  We're gonna get there, I hope.

• 30:27Dax Shepard?

  His big breakthrough. Her boyfriend's Matt Damon.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  You'll have to check out the bathroom at some point.

• 30:31Dax Shepard?

  Don't tell Lucy. Don't tell Lucy.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  There's a big standee of Matt in the bathroom.

• 30:35Dax Shepard?

  Kissing Monica on the forehead.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty good. Pretty good.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  A standee?

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:40Dax Shepard?

  Oh yeah, should we bring it out?

• 30:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's pull him out for this interview. He won't mind.

• 30:45Dax Shepard?

  Let's get him on the scene. You're gonna like this. I've known Monica for a long time and I've never, ever seen this look on her face.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Look at that.

• 30:55Speaker 02

  That's just fantastic. I gotta tell you.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Best woman of my life.

• 30:59Speaker 02

  He looks comfortable and he looks very happy.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  I like to think so. You know what's weird? I'm wearing this skirt in that, you can't see it, but I think that's the last time I wore this skirt.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  Oh wow, well good for you.

• 31:10Dax Shepard?

  It's your lucky skirt.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  I guess so.

• 31:12Dax Shepard?

  Oh my god, I'm expecting a shot with you and Jude that's gonna rival that. Maybe we'll get a second standee.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  It's a talented Mr. Ripley skirt.

• 31:18Dax Shepard?

  It makes me proud of you because you buy a lot of clothes and I worry you're not wearing the ones you've already bought and this demonstrates that you.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  That's a fair worry.

• 31:26Dax Shepard?

  Once every five years do that.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  When did it start? What was the performance and why?

• 31:33Speaker 01

  Good Will Hunting.

• 31:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I wish, I wanted to.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  It was what? Good Will Hunting, oh, yeah, yeah.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  Yes, and I watched it.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  Fair dudes.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  So many times, VHS. I just watched it and rewound it and watched it and rewound it. And I could like, watch it in my head. I had seen it so much.

• 31:46Dax Shepard?

  In school, she would be in class and just watch the movie from beginning.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  Kind of like, just glaze over and just watch it.

• 31:52Speaker 02

  On the inside?

• 31:53Speaker 01

  On the inside of my eyelids.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  There's a connection between that character and a little bit of what we're talking about, or have been, isn't there? The guy breaking the mold, the guy who could end up on one path and actually needs to rewire and he makes his own path.

• 32:07Dax Shepard?

  Also, my conclusion, I have a theory on everything, as you'll learn. That was one of my favorite movies as well. It was my girlfriend of nine years and I's first date was going to see that movie. So it was also special for that reason. But I left and I was like, why is that movie so powerful? I think it's because we all think we're special and we're just waiting for someone to notice. And he was just so special and no one would notice. And he's a janitor and then finally, and I think there was some wish fulfillment in that movie that was really sweet, which is like, I'm special too. This could happen to me in some version.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  I have a genius too.

• 32:40Dax Shepard?

  And even if it's not intellectual, it's just, I'm worthy of someone finally acknowledging I'm special.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  We all want that.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  We do.

• 32:49Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 32:56Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Gusto. So here's the thing about running a small business that nobody romanticizes. It's not the big idea that wears you down, it's the payroll, the tax filings, the wait, do I need workers comp for this stuff? That's the part that quietly eats away your whole afternoon, which is where Gusto comes in. Gusto is online payroll and benefit software built for small businesses. It's all in one, remote friendly and incredibly easy to use so you can pay onboard and support your team from anywhere. They handle automatic tax filing, direct deposits, health benefits, 401k, all of it. And you get unlimited payroll runs for one monthly price. No hidden fees, no surprises. If something tricky comes up.

• 33:39Dax Shepard?

  You've got direct access to certified HR experts who actually know what they're talking about. And they're ranked number one on G2's highest satisfaction products list for 2026, and trusted by over 500,000 small businesses. That's not nothing. Try Gusto today at gusto.com/dax and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll at gusto.com/dax. Again, that's gusto.com/dax. We get support from NoBull. The holidays can get hectic. You finally hit a post-summer routine and suddenly you're on hosting duty every week.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  That's when you really need to ground yourself.

• 34:21Dax Shepard?

  Exactly. And that's why I keep my training routine through the holidays. It's the whole NoBull idea. There's a no bullshit training brand built around consistency, honesty, and just putting in the work. It's not about adding more pressure to an already packed schedule. It's about having the gear and the habits to move through the season your way. My personal favorite, all three of the shoes are fantastic. The Outwork, the Outwork Flex, and the Drive 2. I like the Drive 2 because it's a hybrid. And I lift, of course, but I also like to do what's called box jumps.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 34:52Dax Shepard?

  Right? I do a lot of jumping onto a little platform and I want a little more flexibility. And boy, do they deliver.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  And if you're a cardio person and you're running and you also need to be lifting.

• 35:02Dax Shepard?

  And the style is banging. I don't know what to say. Beautiful style, very breathable, very, very comfortable, lots of support. They were built for lifting.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  They also make a great holiday gift. You know, I love gifting, a purposeful one that actually supports someone's goals and routines. And it's not a gift that just ends up in the back of the closet.

• 35:19Dax Shepard?

  Stay stronger than the season. Head to nobullproject.com all holiday season to shop new deals every week. This episode is supported by Helix.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about how November is basically survival mode? Between the holidays, the travel, the hosting, the cooking, the everything. Sleep is the one thing keeping me from completely unraveling.

• 35:41Dax Shepard?

  It really is the foundation. And I think people underestimate how much a bad mattress is quietly ruining their day. You wake up stiff, your back's angry, you're already behind before your feet hit the floor.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  That was me before Helix. I took their sleep quiz, which is so fast. It took me like two minutes and they matched me to a mattress that actually fits how I sleep. Not a guess, not a firm or soft coin flip. It's a real match. I have a midnight mattress and I really like it. I was noticing it because I actually had to sleep in one of my other beds.

• 36:10Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  Recently.

• 36:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  That doesn't have a Helix mattress on it. And I really could tell a big difference in my sleep.

• 36:15Dax Shepard?

  Temperature was all over the map.

• 36:16Speaker 01

  It was a mess. I need a new one.

• 36:18Dax Shepard?

  Look, they've got over 20 mattress models. So whether you sleep hot, need extra back support, or you've got a partner who moves around all night, there's one built for you. Plus free shipping and a 365 night happy with Helix guarantee. That's a full year to decide.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Helix has been named the most awarded mattress by Forbes, Wired and more. So it's not just us being enthusiastic, the experts agree.

• 36:40Dax Shepard?

  Right now, Helix is running their Black Friday sale with up to 30% off. Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for up to 30% off your Helix mattress. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for up to 30% off your Helix mattress. Helixsleep.com/armchair. We are supported by Squarespace. So here's something I think about a lot. Most people I talk to on this show, the ones doing really interesting things, they all had a version of their work that existed before anyone else saw it. It was just theirs, notes, ideas, projects they were tinkering with. And then at some point, they made the decision to share it. That's the part that's scary, right? Going from I'm working on something to here's what I made. Rob went through the exact same thing, building our site on Squarespace.

• 37:24Dax Shepard?

  And what made it doable was that he didn't have to become a web developer overnight. He just had to show up with the idea. Squarespace handles the rest. Beautiful templates that actually look like you hired someone, built an SEO so people can find you, email campaigns, scheduling, analytics, all under one roof. No code. No patchwork of random tools. And honestly, the thing I keep coming back to is how low the barrier is. If you've got something you've been building quietly and you're ready for people to see it, Squarespace makes that leap feel a lot less traumatic. Head to Squarespace.com slash DAX for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  I realize there's a bit of a connection there to my father's story, actually. I wonder whether he's seen that recently. He was given a chance to sort of walk away from a life that would have taken him on a completely different path. He got that opportunity and he took it. Yeah, it runs deep, that film. And they wrote it.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  That's the part that's like, oh my god.

• 38:28Speaker 02

  When you saw it and you loved him, not only was this kind of movie star performance, the guy wrote it, which means he's really bright.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:35Dax Shepard?

  And he went to Harvard.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, and he's so funny and hot.

• 38:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. He's so strong, too. Did you see, uh, School Ties? No, is that the one he was in right before?

• 38:43Speaker 01

  He was in School Ties. But actually, with Talented Mr. Ripley, I know we're not there yet.

• 38:48Dax Shepard?

  We're really close, though.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 38:49Dax Shepard?

  This play he does where he gets nominated for a Tony, I can land the plane on that. And that opens up the door to Talented Mr. Ripley. Proceed.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  Well, I was just gonna say, because I was so in love with him, that movie was tough for me. He's so good in it, but he's so disturbing.

• 39:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, creepy.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  And that's not who I needed him to be.

• 39:07Dax Shepard?

  And he's gay, so he's not looking for you.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  That wasn't really the issue, it was more the real creepiness factor. And you were so good in it that I'm like, who do I, what's going on?

• 39:16Dax Shepard?

  Now I kinda like my boyfriend's boyfriend.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it was too confusing, it was a lot for little old me.

• 39:22Speaker 02

  But he played it with such a charming innocence. It was so interesting seeing the Andrew Scott version. Because it's like Shakespeare, good material can be interpreted in any way and they were just not related. I mean, it was so interesting. And Andrew found this sort of sinister psychopathy.

• 39:42Dax Shepard?

  Was that the new one?

• 39:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, the one on TV.

• 39:45Dax Shepard?

  Which was great, yeah. And you're right, completely opposite.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  Matt almost played it like, ah, please don't make me kill y'all, I'm so Sorry, he apologized smiling while he's doing it. Like, oh, I'm in this jam again, and I guess I was just gonna have to kill you. It was kind of loose and creepy.

• 39:59Dax Shepard?

  Even darker.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  It is.

• 40:01Speaker 02

  Darker.

• 40:02Dax Shepard?

  It actually made it more believable you would have been sucked into his whole thing from the get go. So does that opportunity come directly off the heels of that play? I know you were in Gattaca.

• 40:11Speaker 02

  Gattaca was a big turning point. I was really only doing theater and film just wasn't on my radar. I didn't really know how one got into film. And I loved theater and I was happy in theater, so it didn't feel like it was something I was seeking out. But a couple of little films came my way in the UK that led to Gattaca, which took me to Hollywood for the first time, coming and living here and making a film and rehearsing and shooting at the studios.

• 40:35Dax Shepard?

  Did you get on with Ethan?

• 40:37Speaker 02

  Oh, so well. I mean, Ethan was another great teacher in a way. Generous and a great leader and enthusiastic and smart.

• 40:46Dax Shepard?

  Talk about a guy who is chasing everything and critics be damned. I like poetry. I like music.

• 40:52Speaker 02

  Written two books and just a great inspiration to be around for me at that early formative time. And then I did a few of these little movies.

• 41:00Dax Shepard?

  You're also on Night of the.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Clint Eastwood, Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. Yeah, yeah.

• 41:06Dax Shepard?

  Which became weirdly, um.

• 41:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it did.

• 41:09Dax Shepard?

  It did.

• 41:10Speaker 02

  I know.

• 41:10Dax Shepard?

  You're playing a gay lover of Kevin Spacey.

• 41:14Speaker 02

  Kevin Spacey, who he murders.

• 41:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's kind of weird.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Moving on.

• 41:19Dax Shepard?

  Next project.

• 41:22Speaker 02

  Ripley came about.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  Chugging along.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  There's no way of moving on from that subtly.

• 41:30Dax Shepard?

  I mean, it's as crazy as you having been in a movie with Bill Cosby and it was about him fucking drugging you. I mean, that's how bonkers that is, but we'll move on.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  That would be a question for Kevin Spacey. Acting in a film where you're also doing it secretly, whoa.

• 41:47Dax Shepard?

  Which is clear, he hasn't killed anyone, though.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  That we know of, allegedly.

• 41:51Dax Shepard?

  Allegedly, allegedly he hasn't killed. You don't hear that often.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  No, you don't.

• 41:55Dax Shepard?

  Allegedly, he hasn't murdered anyone.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  Is that legally?

• 41:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  Freeing?

• 42:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, you just say allegedly.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  Say allegedly to anyone.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, before and after any sentence, you're fine.

• 42:05Dax Shepard?

  Remember, you said you liked my house and the next time you see me, I don't have it anymore. That'll answer that question.

• 42:12Dax Shepard?

  Well, someone made that decision for me. And I guess in a way I made it for myself. Anyways, okay. So how do you meet Mangela?

• 42:23Speaker 02

  I'm making a film that is being produced by his wife. This is at the point in my career life when I'm in my early twenties. I'm just happy to be asked to work. Are you going to pay me to? Great. I'll turn up. It was from Hong Kong. It was this weird film, kind of a vampire film, really. But they never kind of named him as a vampire, but he was sort of addicted to women's blood. And you couldn't work out whether he was just a psychopath. Anyway, doing this oddball film and Anthony's watching the rushes over Carolyn's shoulders. And he's casting Ripley and just reaches out and says, I think you'd be great for this role.

• 42:55Dax Shepard?

  Wow.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  And that's how it started. And foolishly at the time, I'm thinking, I just want to be taken seriously as an actor. I've got so much to prove. I had this foolish agent at the time who said, look, this is just a kind of pretty boy role. Are you sure you want to go there? It'd be your big introduction to Hollywood, but you'll just be the kind of golden boy. And for a moment I thought, maybe not, maybe I shouldn't do this.

• 43:15Dax Shepard?

  Did you tell him to his face? I don't think I can do this, Anthony.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  I don't remember. I just remember there being a moment where he came and saw me and we, over a period of days, because I was filming still, he would come and hang out and we would talk about it. He was pulling together this incredible cast, all of whom I knew, but they weren't household names. Kate Blanchett, had she done Elizabeth? We were all just on the cusp.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  Philip Seymour Hoffman, he hadn't even done Boogie Nights.

• 43:41Dax Shepard?

  He had probably done Happiness and Twister.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  And Hard Eight.

• 43:45Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:46Speaker 02

  Was Hard Eight P T Anderson's first film or early film? And Gwyneth had just done Shakespeare in Love.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  He was pulling together this incredible group.

• 43:55Dax Shepard?

  When you list those people in that junction, it's almost like The Outsiders. It's like every one of you.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  Ended up doing huge stuff.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Interesting, huh?

• 44:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So of that cast, Matt was the big star.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:08Dax Shepard?

  It already sounds that you're this way. I know you do it with directors. I read enough about you. You really do avail yourself to instruction.

• 44:16Speaker 02

  What I've realized more and more is I'm just a very keen student. I love learning and I hope improving at what I do. And to me, film is a director's medium and I'm in their film. So what do you want from me and how do you want to get there? I have a process, but I do a lot of that on my own. I don't then impose that on what you want from me. And to me, each experience is an opportunity to say, okay, how do we do this? How do you do this? But Matt was absolutely the lead of that movie. And if anything, the challenge for me that I remember going through with Ant was to find the confidence to be that confident guy and have that swagger.

• 44:54Dax Shepard?

  Well, you gotta be the dude that the movie star Matt Damon's in love with and wants to be.

• 44:58Speaker 02

  That's right. Anthony kept saying, I want you to glow, I want you to shine. And so finding that kind of sense of confidence, security was a challenge. Obviously, it changed my life because the film was successful and critically acclaimed. But it changed my life also because Ant taught me about unleashing certain qualities in myself that I had, I think, probably locked away, actually. It felt like a kind of superpower that I'd been scared to handle, which is sort of just turn on the charisma chops.

• 45:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean?

• 45:26Dax Shepard?

  Well, do you think you were learning like, okay, you're not supposed to do this in real life, but it's permissible here. In this space, I can do all the things I've trained myself to stop doing.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  That's it. It's like going back to the

• 45:38Dax Shepard?

  cocky kid who all the older girls like.

• 45:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess it is. No, I was gonna say, it goes back to the, to the board. You rewire and you think, oh, I'm allowed to turn all that stuff on that's been shut away. And it's a similar, I suppose, when you play someone who's, say, very dark or sinister. It's like opening up those chambers. You peek in there and you think, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I gotta keep a lid on that. But it's interesting. It is allowed in this environment. It's a safe environment for you to unleash.

• 46:06Dax Shepard?

  I'll say you were given two gifts. One is you have a director who's already directed The English Patient. You know you're safe to do whatever and you'll be protected. That's not a gift a lot of young actors have from a director.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  No, that's so true. And it's something I've learned. In a way, you evaluate that at every juncture in film. Because sometimes you're looking at a project and a young director and you're thinking, well, you haven't proven yourself yet, but there's something here. And I know it's a risk and it could be three months just down the drain.

• 46:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 46:34Speaker 02

  But let's go for it. And then other times, like a Ron Howard situation, where you just go, well, this is Ron Howard. This guy makes films for breakfast. I'm gonna learn and I can really just get on with what I've got to do because I know I'm in great hands. And absolutely with Ant, that was the first time I was aware that was the case.

• 46:50Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  I have worked with a couple of decent directors before that. I think I was too young to recognize that I was in these qualified hands and a safe environment.

• 46:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I'll never forget the first time that happened to me is I was working for Mike Judge, someone I idolized.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:03Dax Shepard?

  And I'm like, if he tells me to stick a banana straight up my ass and then pull it out and peel it and eat it, I will do it. I actually trust his sense of comedy more than my own. And it's a very fun feeling.

• 47:12Speaker 02

  It is a fun feeling. It's operating on so many levels because it's incredibly empowering that you're there anyway. You suddenly realize, oh, I really rate this person and they must rate me because here I am.

• 47:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  And they're just telling me to do my stuff. And that alone emboldens you and empowers you.

• 47:28Dax Shepard?

  Well, you have to buy in. At first you think, oh, this person fucked up.

• 47:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:32Dax Shepard?

  This person I idolize thinks I can do something that I probably can't. You have to buy in.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  I think that's what was going on in those early moments of fear that, oh, I have to be really confident. I have to step up. Do you know who taught me a lot in that environment was Philip? Philip was so shocking to me because he was kind of rude.

• 47:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he didn't have the best bedside manner, right?

• 47:51Speaker 02

  No, I'm someone who needs a really kind of safe, cozy atmosphere to feel like, okay, I can make a fool of myself here. I can cry. I'm safe. He quite liked it a little prickly, or at least in the films I made with him. And what was interesting was he taught me that it's whatever it takes to get the truth, whatever it takes to make it real. I remember I had this amazing scene in Cold Mountain where it's the middle of the night and night shift is like 2 a.m. It's getting cold. They've converted this whole town down in North Carolina back to the period. So there's mud all over the street and I've got this huge 18-hand horse in one hand and a gun in the other. And the scene is I've got to move him down this street, but I've got no hands. Anthony says, action from down the end of the road. And he just turns around and goes, I'm not moving.

• 48:33Dax Shepard?

  That's what Philip said.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  So I had to kick him so hard.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  To make the scene work. And of course, it was just real.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  But you know, most people have been like, oh, pretend he just looked at me. I ain't moving. And so suddenly it was like, we're gonna really do this. Okay.

• 48:50Dax Shepard?

  Did you meet Ethan on that movie, Suplee? You probably never worked together.

• 48:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 48:54Dax Shepard?

  He's one of my best friends.

• 48:55Speaker 02

  Oh, you're kidding me. He's a lovely man. There was a very fond memory of that whole experience because true to Ant, he created a real family atmosphere. And we were there in Romania for many, many months. Because he wanted everyone to really play the music. Jack White's in it playing guitar. The brilliant Brendan Gleeson was playing the fiddle. Ethan learnt guitar or banjo or something. So we were all hanging out, playing and singing those beautiful bluegrass tunes. And he was a joy to be around.

• 49:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, special.

• 49:23Speaker 02

  Oh, he's heartbreaking in that.

• 49:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  The scene when they shoot him stop smiling at me. Oh, it's so sad. Oh.

• 49:30Speaker 01

  Your resume is insane.

• 49:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's pretty bonkers.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  We're just like talking about random ones. I'm like, oh, yeah, that. Oh, yeah.

• 49:35Dax Shepard?

  What I think is unique about yours, I wonder if you agree, the great gift of your 25 years doing this is inordinate amount of really special directors. Clint Eastwood, Soderbergh I worship, Spielberg right out of the gates. You've gotten to sit front row.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  Couple of times Scorsese. I know, crazy.

• 49:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's rare. I think even for huge movie stars, they've had three or four of the legends and you've really been with a lot of them.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, fun.

• 50:03Dax Shepard?

  So after Ripley, and I already know except Red, but your twenties, it's like you need to, I wouldn't even advise 20 year olds to not do this. But boy, you care so goddamn much. You're so certain of where you've got to go and what you can't be in. So how hung up out of 10 were you about being good looking in movies? Which now both of us at 50.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  Listen, it was something that was also a crutch to lean on. But I realized looking back, I was in my head so much and insecure, but also desperately ambitious to be recognized in an art form that I love. Growing up, watching Sean Penn, Gary Oldman, Daniel Day Lewis, Tim Roth, these actors who I just wanted to. Flex my acting muscle as much as them and show my ability to do different things and play different parts, that it just felt like this distraction. And that if that's what people were thinking, or if that's all they were saying, or it's a great part, he's this beautiful guy, I just thought immediately, Christ, this is all gonna fall apart if that's it, if that's the perception that is out there.

• 51:08Dax Shepard?

  It's the great comedy of life, though, because it's like, when you're an old man, you're like, oh, fuck, if I look like Harrison Ford, I'd be indie. If you're you, you think this. We all got this stupid fucking story and we gotta be someone else other than ourselves. It's comical because it's happening to everyone. Brad Pitt's knocking his tooth out to be in Fight Club, so no one thinks he's gorgeous.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, grass being greener. I know it's a bizarre journey. And then the dust settles as you head into your kind of late 40s. You look back and think, shit, I don't look like that anymore. Hey, just give me a couple more chances. If I just get a little nip and tuck.

• 51:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give me one more round.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:46Dax Shepard?

  My wife will say like, I should have done a lot of nudity before.

• 51:51Dax Shepard?

  You pass the point where you're trying to fight, you're gonna want me to get naked. I don't want to get naked. And then you say, fuck, man, I blew it. I looked hot as shit. Naked in everything I did. Okay, so the one I want to talk to you about, because I read the biography and I don't know if you have, but the Mike Nichols biography.

• 52:07Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I read it. Isn't it wonderful?

• 52:08Dax Shepard?

  What a book. And I don't really read many Hollywood books, but enough people told me.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  You know, I had to read that because I wanted him in the room one more time. He was the most beautiful man. I remember before I worked with him and actually knew him and said, you wait, you are gonna hear the best stories, you are gonna laugh more than you thought possible. And he was absolutely right. This guy's warmth and humor and perspective on the world, and then add to that this boundlessly generous intellect. You know, really smart people that make you feel smart rather than make you feel stupid? They kind of bring you into their perspective and share it. And then all these crazy stories. I mean, also, and so naughty, like so much bad behavior.

• 52:50Dax Shepard?

  The guy was a functioning crack addict while directing.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 52:54Dax Shepard?

  Addicted to halucine and losing all of his finance. He was on a wild fucking ride.

• 52:59Speaker 02

  He touched every cornerstone.

• 53:02Dax Shepard?

  He did it all.

• 53:03Speaker 02

  He did it all and would talk openly. The rehearsal process for Closer was mostly him. And I realize now what genius he was. He was just talking about his experiences and making us all like hoot with laughter about his loves and losses and tragedies. And what he was doing was creating an environment that was totally safe and free. Where when we then reenacted this pretty hardcore drama about falling in love and splitting up, we were safe. Oh my God, we laughed so much. And another thing he did after we shot the film, a couple of years later, we'd stayed in touch and I'd seen him a few times. And I was in a bit of a dark spot in my personal life, a little bit down. And I felt like work had gone a little awry and I just felt like I was in a blip.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  I remember he reached out to me and took me out for this incredible lunch. It's like he just fucking knew and gave me this incredible generous perspective on life and the pendulum nature of life. It swings here and then it swings back there. You just know it's going to swing back the next way, just hold on. And it was beautiful and very warm and much, much needed.

• 54:06Dax Shepard?

  That makes me so happy that he lived up for you to the guy I read about in the book. And I was completely ignorant on Mike Nichols, other than I had seen his movies. I thought he was a movie director. I didn't know he had been a humongous comedian.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  Have you listened to them since? You must go and listen to Nichols and May recordings.

• 54:21Dax Shepard?

  I haven't.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  You can buy the recordings of their radio shows and you must look up on YouTube. There's an acceptance speech, I think at the Emmys or something where Elaine May presents the award for mundanity and Mike Nichols jumps up and runs down and accepts this award. But the two of them were rocket ships of intellect and humor, groundbreaking comedians.

• 54:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Embarrassingly, I didn't even know that he came from being a comedian. I mean, this fucking guy gets put on a boat at six years old with his little brother by himself crossing the ocean. He's got alopecia. And the fact that that dude turned all that into everything he did.

• 55:02Speaker 02

  To break the gates of comedy, the way he did and trample a new path and then say, I'm going to. Films and does Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, The Graduate, catch 22 onwards? I mean, what a talent.

• 55:14Dax Shepard?

  Oh, unbelievable. I recommend everyone read that book, even if you're not into movies or any of that. What a life story. To me, because I'm an addict, to me, the crack smoking is the best fucking part.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  Insightful, you mean, to who he was?

• 55:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, just, I was a really high functioning addict myself and I was getting A's at UCLA and getting into the groundlings and also smoking crack. I applaud and you juggle those fucking balls. I mean, I couldn't, I had to retire at 29 from it. But I find that to be one of the most fascinating aspects of it is how much he was juggling.

• 55:45Speaker 02

  But equally, I can fully understand and I can recognize that need for everything. It's appetite for life, but it's also addiction, but it's how do I stop this? I want to consume it all. I want to feel it at the max until you realize it's at the detriment of health.

• 56:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I want life to be an all you can eat bar and I'm just going back up, up.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:05Dax Shepard?

  Oh, they just put all you can eat buffet.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, buffet, more.

• 56:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  Oh, they just put fried chicken out. You already eat spaghetti. I don't give a fuck.

• 56:13Dax Shepard?

  Okay, let's go back.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:14Dax Shepard?

  Chicken legs.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  Oh my God, they have banana splits at this place? I'm having that too.

• 56:18Dax Shepard?

  With toppings.

• 56:18Speaker 02

  I don't want to miss a thing.

• 56:19Speaker 01

  Do you relate on the spectrum, if Dax is a 10, which I think he is, where would you land on this needing?

• 56:27Dax Shepard?

  To gobble up every night.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:28Speaker 02

  I've definitely gotten better, but there was a time in my life when I was way up at sort of seven, eight.

• 56:33Dax Shepard?

  Did you ever scare yourself?

• 56:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I still do a little bit. I'm an Englishman, so I like a drink.

• 56:38Dax Shepard?

  To birthright.

• 56:39Speaker 02

  But then you get to an age where it's like, oh, this is a young man's game. It's got to stop. Young person's game, sorry.

• 56:46Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I drink as well.

• 56:48Dax Shepard?

  She's on the, she's on the ladder. Yeah, I get to observe people who stuck with it. I say this a lot. I feel worse for people who can ride the line of moderation plus because you don't have wreckage. There's really nothing you can point at to say this is taking more than it gives. But for everybody, even if you're moderate, there comes a point at an age where it actually is taking a little more than it's giving. And that's hard.

• 57:12Speaker 02

  You're absolutely right. And I think a lot of that is also just how long you've been doing it. You get middle aged and you just. Think, yeah, I just feel so much better if I didn't. And the problem is the social reliance, the crutch it offers socially.

• 57:25Dax Shepard?

  The lubricant.

• 57:26Speaker 02

  Is all those more years ingrained, the idea of going, oh, I've got to learn to go to these things sober.

• 57:32Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 57:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm 50.

• 57:35Dax Shepard?

  That's overwhelming.

• 57:36Speaker 02

  Man, I just won't go.

• 57:36Dax Shepard?

  Or how about my big thing was vacation. I remember going with my girlfriend on vacation. I'm like, well, what in the fuck are we going to do for seven days? I know what's supposed to happen. We go to the bar, we get a few drinks, we meet weirdos, we end up doing this. That's the key you turn. I don't need plans. I need two Jack and Diets. That's the plan. That for me was the hardest, where it's like, I don't really even know what to do.

• 57:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:59Dax Shepard?

  I don't have a game plan to amuse myself without this.

• 58:02Speaker 02

  There's a pattern, isn't there to, well, I can only talk for myself. When it works, waiting for the time when you go, well, I'll reset then. Because I'm really good at keeping fit and healthy. It's a big part of my life. I love training, I love running, I love swimming.

• 58:16Dax Shepard?

  Well, it shows your physique looks fantastic. I have a note I'll get to in your new movie about your buns, but we'll earmark that.

• 58:23Speaker 02

  Naked, fully naked. But the reset of not having a drink because you've had a really hard day's work and you deserve, I really deserve this. The reset is not, okay, so I had a G and T last night, I still got up and I trained. The reset is no, no, no, you would just feel so much better if you just stop.

• 58:39Dax Shepard?

  It's a leap of faith, weirdly.

• 58:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm really closing in on that. And funnily enough, I wonder whether a bit of it has been, I know you joked about my birthright as a Brit drinking, but that I've been living away from the UK for the last few years.

• 58:50Dax Shepard?

  That's a very solid footing because I've had many dudes in AA over my last 20 years who are English.

• 58:58Speaker 02

  Now living here.

• 58:58Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and they go, I go home and I tell people I'm an alcoholic. And they're like, that doesn't even exist in England. Conceptually, a lot of people even, what does that mean? I remember being in Italy, there was a British kid in our hostel. And I was explaining to him, I'm an alcoholic. And he's like, well, what does that mean? And I go, well, you know, I'll go out and I'll drink a fifth of Jack and then I'll have a 12 pack and I'll get coke. And he's like, yeah, I guess at home we would be proud of that. You're telling it like you're embarrassed by that, but we would very much be proud. And you woke up the next day. Yeah, yeah, I do think culturally it's much different.

• 59:30Speaker 02

  It's why it's such an interesting time, actually. There are all these different perceptions of Gen Z and the parents' generation trying to get a handle on them. And certainly in the UK, I don't know if it's the same here, but their lack of wanting to get high.

• 59:45Dax Shepard?

  They're scared.

• 59:46Speaker 02

  Judging them, but almost like going, oh, they're so boring. You think maybe, maybe they're just healthy.

• 59:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:51Speaker 02

  They're still going out and having fun. They're just not getting wasted.

• 59:55Dax Shepard?

  Maybe they like waking up and not recounting everything they said in the conversation with so and so and thinking like, oh, my fucking god, is this worthy of a call?

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly. That's a big shift, certainly in the UK. That's impressive.

• 1:00:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's happening here, too. I keep reading that it's down, which is, it's gotta be good. Although I hope they go fucking hard for at least a decade like I did. I'm still delighted I went hard.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  Well, I think it's because they're so much more emotionally regulated that they're not using substances to sort of fill the void.

• 1:00:23Dax Shepard?

  They can actually talk.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  I think you're right there. The opportunity to actually share and analyze, rather than you're either sharing and analyzing while you're high or you're hiding the need to share and analyze because you're high.

• 1:00:34Dax Shepard?

  Well, again, that's why I like drugs. It was back to talking to girls. I could sit down with you with an eight ball. I got no fear of telling you all my fears, my vulnerabilities. I'm impenetrable when I'm on coke. I'll give you the whole me. I'm not worried at all. That's what I liked about it. I liked the intimacy it could immediately give you with another male. Sitting now with some dude you just met and you're hearing about his dad. You know the shit you talk about on coke? You're like, your dad was a firefighter and I'm so interested. Yeah. What are you talking like? Did he come home smoky?

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  Do you remember the stuff when you do, you do?

• 1:01:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the mini business plans I hatched. You're very entrepreneurial when you're on coke. You've got a lot of good business plans.

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  Did you ever make promises though? Like start them?

• 1:01:16Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 1:01:17Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:01:18Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. I've written a thousand checks in my ass, couldn't cash while gacked up for sure. Oh, fuck. Well, while we're on this, the other one I just wanted to touch in before we get into the 10 new movies you have. Downey's a good friend of mine. And so you got to do those two Sherlock's together.

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:01:35Dax Shepard?

  Was it a party? And I've also heard from, I think it was that Jake Gyllenhaal was telling us that Guy has a set that's pretty fucking radical. Was that the case?

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm sitting back smiling because they were very, very happy experiences, those. First of all, it was an interesting time, looking back, because Iron Man one had just landed.

• 1:01:53Dax Shepard?

  And people forget that was the first big Marvel movie.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  First big Marvel movie, first big turnaround for Rob. So it wasn't like he had gone stratospheric, but it was pretty clear that the rocket ship was full of fuel. And everyone was standing around.

• 1:02:07Dax Shepard?

  They were cleared for takeoff.

• 1:02:08Speaker 02

  For 10.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:10Speaker 02

  But, you know, it was, it was sort of happening.

• 1:02:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's a sweet moment you got to share with him. The sky again was open for him.

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  Exactly. And Guy, too, was sort of figuring out this step up from these really cool. He's one of those directors who it's hard to have a signature style. And you watch five minutes, you go, oh, that's Guy Ritchie movie.

• 1:02:28Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  Right? You know it straight away. Like Wes Anderson, he has his own particular style. I'm pretty certain in saying it's the first time he's sort of been headhunted and put in charge of a big piece with a big budget and a big movie star. And the first time I'd stepped up to something like that. So we were all sort of finding our way with all these new toys. And it really was incredibly creative. We had a script that we used as a sort of blueprint. We'd go in, we'd improvise all morning, trying stuff out. I had this big tome of, I'd try to read most of the Holmes books and I'd made all these notes of great little quotes between the two of them. So we had this sort of bible, we called it, where we would look for banter between them that was pure Conan Doyle. And Downey was just coming up with the craziest ideas.

• 1:03:10Dax Shepard?

  He's on another planet.

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  Right? And so fast, but also brilliant at looking at something through a smart, funny lens, you know, like, but look at it from over here. How do we put that into the scene? And then we'd edit the thing down and go shoot it. That became our pattern. It was really creative.

• 1:03:25Dax Shepard?

  How fun and what ownership you must feel over those movies.

• 1:03:28Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And then to get to do it again, felt like this oiled machine. It was like suddenly the engine was running and we could just. Accelerate again, again, again. It was a lot of fun and one I really hoped we'd do again. I mean, there's been a lot of conversation about whether we will with scripts that have come and gone. But at the moment, I don't know.

• 1:03:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you must.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, you should.

• 1:03:48Speaker 02

  I hope so.

• 1:03:48Dax Shepard?

  Also, what an easy thing to greenlight. The charisma between you two motherfuckers. Like, I might even argue you're the only person with this big of a sparkle. Downey's such a weird little fucking unicorn.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's cool.

• 1:04:00Dax Shepard?

  Gotta see a special weirdo. And I'm gonna add, just to bring him back down to life. He's also a dumbass. So he's like the most brilliant person you met? Like, I'm sure he was giving the most brilliant ideas and I bet he was hitting you with a couple of like, what the fuck are you talking about? You want crystals in this scene?

• 1:04:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's where the genius lies. And it goes back a little bit to, we've mentioned some of the great film actors and directors already in this conversation. But being bold and brave and brilliant enough to offer a stupid idea. You know, you throw a stupid idea in, that means you're gonna have a genius idea in three seconds. It's firing. And if you're safe and everyone goes, what? We're not doing that. And then, well, what about this? Oh, okay. It's freedom of kind of flow thought. And again, learnt a hell of a lot from that. Cause I definitely had some of those moments where you look around, what did you say? I think there are moments in the film where I'm like, what are we doing? Yeah. That whole bit in the second one with him dressed as a woman and us then fighting.

• 1:04:57Speaker 02

  I'm on top of him dressed as a woman trying to kill him. I mean, and there's moments where you go, wait.

• 1:05:03Dax Shepard?

  How did we get here?

• 1:05:04Speaker 02

  Aren't we doing Sherlock Holmes?

• 1:05:06Dax Shepard?

  Doyle's rolling over and is great. Are the mechanics of a Guy Ritchie movie at all laborious? Because it is visually so specific and cool.

• 1:05:15Speaker 02

  It never felt laborious. Sorry, you asked a much more specific question because of what Jake said about his sets.

• 1:05:20Dax Shepard?

  Well, he told me he's got like his own grill he invented. I think I saw it in the Beckham documentary.

• 1:05:24Speaker 02

  He has. He hadn't got to that quite then. But he was always, yeah, what are we having for lunch? Just cook our own lunch. He was inventing at the time, a kind of plush decked out trailer that you could cook your own food on with a little wood burning stove, all of that going on.

• 1:05:38Dax Shepard?

  He's from like a bygone era. That's so great. Okay, I watched The Order last night.

• 1:05:44Speaker 02

  Gosh.

• 1:05:44Dax Shepard?

  Couple of things right out of the gates. Just delighted to see a movie like this because we haven't made one of these in a long time. This was a standard fare in the early 2000s.

• 1:05:52Speaker 02

  And more so in the late 70s and early 80s. And that was the films I grew up with, that Justin, the director, grew up with. If you think of Lumet and Freakin', early Michael Mann. A time when the genre of film could also carry incredible content and substance. I've been referring to it as sort of elevated genre, that people aren't scared of genre being some sort of excuse just for thrills, that in fact you can bed in really interesting commentary.

• 1:06:17Dax Shepard?

  You are, I'm gonna fluff your pillows now, so buckle up. You're not unrecognizable because clearly it's you, but you're unrecognizable in this very fun way. This role, I'm like, this is like Gene Hackman or like late Paul Newman. When you walk up, your face, I'm like, he's a real dude. This is not a movie, sir. This is very Gene Hackman-y.

• 1:06:37Speaker 02

  That was the aim. I'm completely thrilled that you made those two references. Those were references that Justin and I both sort of circled around.

• 1:06:45Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 1:06:45Speaker 02

  The whole time, for so many reasons. First of all, this idea of, for me as a Brit, trying to create a very particular American man of that time. The kind of cheesy reference is Marlboro Man, but you know, that kind of lived in grisly macho, but with a really good heart.

• 1:07:05Dax Shepard?

  I mean, this is such a good trope. I miss it. It's like, the life is a disaster because you've dedicated it all to one thing you're good at.

• 1:07:12Speaker 02

  That's right. Well, that was exactly at the heart of what we wanted to find in him. It's why we didn't base him on the real special agents that were in that case.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's get a plot.

• 1:07:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. So it's a real story.

• 1:07:24Speaker 02

  So it's based on a coast that the FBI uncovered in the early 80s about this white separatist movement that was breaking out in Idaho. And they discovered it because of a series of bank robberies. And these robberies actually amassed more money than had ever been stolen from Brink Matt at the time. It was up to nearly $4 million.

• 1:07:45Dax Shepard?

  Well, yeah, one of the armored car jobs was like $3 million in 83.

• 1:07:49Speaker 02

  But they were using it to finance an army. And they were following a book that had been Written a few years before called The Turner Diaries, this goofy, almost kids like book, which was seven steps to taking over the country. And they got to number five.

• 1:08:02Dax Shepard?

  It's still the bible of white nationalists. I watched docs as recently as last year where that's still the bible of the white nationalists.

• 1:08:09Speaker 02

  That's right. But it's this kind of kids book, it's really odd. It's not got great content or gravitas to it. So Bob Matthews was the leader of this group that called themselves the Order or the Silent Brotherhood. Nick Holt plays him.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  Love him.

• 1:08:22Dax Shepard?

  He's still my beating vagina. I mean, he is as goddamn sexy.

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  We do love him.

• 1:08:27Speaker 02

  What a brave actor to take on that role. He had to go to pretty dark places. I felt for him because he found a humanity in this guy, but he was sort of unrelenting in commitment. It was a remarkable performance.

• 1:08:38Dax Shepard?

  I agree.

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  So that's a real guy. There were a couple of special agents that bust this case, one in particular, who's written several books about it. And it was just important that we use this character in the film and add to his vulnerability, add to his personal life to really make sure that the story and his role in the story hit home. And so to sort of hang that or invent that on the back of a real agent just felt wrong. So we sort of amalgamated him and invented him ourselves. And going back to your point, we constructed him in such a way that there's this sense of this lost family, this incredible career that he's physically in ruin and kind of falling apart, smoking too much, drinking too much, he's taking pills to thin his blood and his nose bleeding.

• 1:09:21Dax Shepard?

  Gushing blood in opportune moments.

• 1:09:24Speaker 02

  And I like the idea that a lot of us felt like the big fight was behind us. And in fact, it's kind of in front of us, it's becoming more and more apparent globally. I wanted him to be us in that sense, that he thinks he's done his job and he's going there to fish and hunt and chill out. And suddenly this army is in front of him and he's on his own and he's got to take him on. And you, the audience are thinking, is he going to survive the afternoon? He's falling apart. And there's also this interesting mirror of giving everything up, devoting everything to a cause. And what the cost of that is, that things do cost in life.

• 1:09:57Dax Shepard?

  The bill comes due.

• 1:09:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:00Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:10:07Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Skims. Okay, I have a confession. I genuinely love matching pajamas. It's the best part of Christmas morning, really. Everyone in the same matching set, looking ridiculously cute in front of the tree.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  I love matching pajamas. I'm literally going to be in coordinating sets with all my friends this holiday season. Because I got them, spoiler to my friends who are listening. The same Skims pajama set I've been living in. They are so soft and cozy and they look cute. So you can leave the house and go get a late night hot chocolate and be cozy.

• 1:10:42Dax Shepard?

  It's so great how Skims has sets for everyone, too. Women's, men's, kids, even your pets. So nobody in your life has to be left out this year.

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  I have a bunch of different pajama sets. One of my favorite is the Organic Cotton Sleep Long Sleeve Set.

• 1:10:58Dax Shepard?

  Okay, tell me more.

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  It is so comfortable, very chic, too. The top is a button down, but very, very soft, easy to sleep in. But as I said before, you can multipurpose this and look super cute.

• 1:11:12Dax Shepard?

  Hot chocolate runs. It's like the pajamas we grew up in, except without the scratchy polyester that made opening presents feel more like a hot yoga class that nobody signed up for.

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  All the nostalgia, none of the discomfort. Shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select Armchair Expert in the drop down menu that follows. If you're looking for the perfect gifts for everyone on your list, the Skims Holiday Shop is now open at skims.com.

• 1:11:40Dax Shepard?

  This episode is brought to you by Dell. Gifts mean more when they have the power to give more. They can inspire more discovery, give more confidence and unwrap more of who you are. This Black Friday, give a gift that goes beyond the box. The Dell XPS 13 Laptop. With a beautiful design and cutting edge performance, it helps you unlock more possibilities. It's the thinnest, lightest XPS laptop yet. With touchscreen, a backlit keyboard and long lasting Battery life to power you through your day. Built with a durable aluminum chassis weighing just 2.2 pounds and Intel Core processors. It's fast, reliable and portable enough to keep up wherever you go. Visit dell.com to explore the possibilities of XPS.

• 1:12:25Dax Shepard?

  While shopping, you'll also find great perks like Dell Rewards. Fast free shipping, premium support and financing with flexible payment options. Plus you can find great deals on monitors and accessories. That means you can score a whole new setup now for less. This Black Friday sale is one you don't want to miss. Add to dell.com/deals. That's dell.com/deals.

• 1:12:51Dax Shepard?

  This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Every family has that one holiday tradition. Nobody actually enjoys, but everyone keeps doing because stopping it would feel like a federal offense. For me, it was a specific meal situation that I will not name because my family listens. But at some point you have to ask yourself, am I doing this because I love it? Or because I'm afraid of what happens if I don't?

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  Yes, and that question applies to so much more than the holidays. I think a lot of us carry these invisible rules about how we're supposed to spend the holidays. We're supposed to see what it's supposed to look like. And when you start unpacking that with a therapist, you realize half of your stress is coming from rules you didn't even write.

• 1:13:30Dax Shepard?

  This is where BetterHelp can be a great resource during the holidays. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. Short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences, which means they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recs.

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  I just love therapy. I've been avoiding it recently or not avoiding it, but I was like, oh, I'm busy, I'm busy, I'm busy. I haven't canceled, canceled, canceled, but then I

• 1:13:57Dax Shepard?

  You start feeling it.

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, because then I had it this past weekend and I was like, oh my God, I'm just, thank God, thank God for her. Yeah.

• 1:14:05Dax Shepard?

  BetterHelp is now in network with more than 125 health plans with many copays as low as $15 for eligible members. And if you don't have eligible insurance or live outside the U.S., you can still get 20% off your first month. Sign up and get 20% off at betterhelp.com/dax. That's betterhelp.com/dax.

• 1:14:29Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Superhuman. Look, I love what I do. The conversations, the ideas, the creative stuff. But there's this whole other layer of work that eats my day alive. The inbox that never ends. Docs I need to get through, threads I'm behind on. And by the time I've dealt with all that, the stuff I actually want to focus on gets whatever's left. What I needed was something that just works where I'm already working. Not another tab to open, not another thing to set up. Superhuman Go, from the makers of Grammarly, is different. It's already right there, inside your email, your docs, your browser. You don't go to it, it's already working alongside you. You're deep in a long thread, highlight it, and it pulls the key points. About to send something important?

• 1:15:12Dax Shepard?

  It flags what doesn't add up before it leaves your hands. It knows your style, your workflows, and it just backs you up without getting in the way. A thought partner that's already up to speed, at your service, not after your job. So do yourself a favor and try Superhuman Go, from the makers of Grammarly. Find out more at superhuman.com.

• 1:15:41Speaker 02

  Dustin Kuzel directed it. We couldn't have found a better director. He was so suited to the material and handled it with such consideration. And lent on the genre aspect, created this real edge-of-your-seat cat-and-mouse thriller. But all the work and the emphasis, certainly on the set, was always about character and authenticity and background. And so at the end, I don't want to give too much away, but he kind of does get his man, he doesn't get his man. And so there's this suggestion of the hunt continuing, which I just thought was so elegantly conducted by him as a director. That sort of open ending with just the breathing of husk back out in the wilderness. And I felt like it lent itself beautifully to, exactly as you said,

• 1:16:21Speaker 02

  the fact that this book is still being looked at by separatist groups and urban terrorists as a bible.

• 1:16:28Dax Shepard?

  Were you in Coeur d'Alene?

• 1:16:29Speaker 02

  No, we shot it actually in Calgary.

• 1:16:31Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you did?

• 1:16:31Speaker 02

  Because I think it's still alive in Coeur d'Alene.

• 1:16:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh, sure. Yeah, like, I think that's still a real hotbed of white nationalism. And I would have been a little nervous making that movie.

• 1:16:41Speaker 02

  Actually going there, no, indeed. This is the scary thing. Obviously, it's a piece of American history, but it's a global problem.

• 1:16:47Dax Shepard?

  Well, I just watched a front line on this thing called the Deutschland.

• 1:16:51Speaker 02

  Oh, Christ.

• 1:16:52Dax Shepard?

  Deutschland something. They've gotten some officials elected. It's thriving on the millions. It's very fucking scary.

• 1:16:58Speaker 02

  I have belief that what galvanizes these individuals, it's sort of going on at the moment around us. It can sometimes be a single voice that gives them an excuse to suddenly be public about it. Someone in the agency said to me, the reason that got so far was because of Bob Matthews. He was a sort of once in a generation voice, and he somehow managed to speak to them all.

• 1:17:19Dax Shepard?

  Charismatic leader.

• 1:17:20Speaker 02

  And as soon as he disappeared, they all disappeared into their little holes and they shut up. And I have a faith if people vote right this year, a lot of those people, their voices will disappear too.

• 1:17:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there's so many forces at work. This current rise of this Deutschland, I wish I could remember the name of the party. It coincides perfectly with them deciding they were going to be a home for refugees, which is beautiful. And a commitment at that time by maybe Markle saying, we have this pass and here's one of the ways we're going to tone for it.

• 1:17:48Speaker 02

  She was extraordinary. She really led the way with the refugees.

• 1:17:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's like a force that happens. And then, then now this breeze oxygen into this other thing. And then, yeah, charismatic leader pops up and rides on the fumes of all this other stuff that's going on.

• 1:18:01Speaker 02

  I thought what Justin did very well in the film was.

• 1:18:04Dax Shepard?

  Really quick, how did you find him? Cause he's going to direct the couple of episodes of The Bateman.

• 1:18:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:08Dax Shepard?

  So he's an Aussie?

• 1:18:09Speaker 02

  He's an Aussie. My company had a great relationship with Zach Balin, who's a wonderful writer. He wrote King Richard and Creed and Marley. He's a great run and gave the script to my partner, Ben. And we just wanted to get it made. We couldn't believe this story hadn't been told. We couldn't believe that he'd packaged this message within a genre. And it was just a beautiful piece. So we loved Justin's work from Snow Town and Nitram and Macbeth. And he'd done some amazing work on film and just seemed so suited to it. He's an awesome guy. He brings incredible heart and ferocity and energy.

• 1:18:45Speaker 02

  Films that he works on and we got on very, very well. I hope to do many, many more projects with him. I intend to and I hope to, but yeah, he also stepped in and shot the last two episodes of the show that I just shot with Jason.

• 1:18:56Dax Shepard?

  Are you guys done?

• 1:18:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, we finished two weeks ago.

• 1:18:59Dax Shepard?

  Okay, we interviewed him three days before he left.

• 1:19:01Speaker 01

  To go start.

• 1:19:02Speaker 02

  To go start with his big beard.

• 1:19:04Dax Shepard?

  He looked insane. Yeah. And then I saw him this summer.

• 1:19:06Speaker 02

  Saying, now I've seen him without it because he's been my big brother Vince and big brother Vince had this hair and this beard. And suddenly he shaved it all off for a flashback we have later in the show. And I was like, who the hell are you? You're Jason Bateman. Where's my brother?

• 1:19:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  It's such a great part for him. He's playing a recovering addict who has this nefarious past, who kind of blows the lid off everything he goes near. You know, in the wrong hands, it could have been that kind of character where everyone goes, why does anyone give this guy time of day? He's a walking car wreck. It's Jason Bateman.

• 1:19:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, you love him.

• 1:19:37Speaker 02

  So you fucking love him. You can't resist him.

• 1:19:40Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:19:40Speaker 02

  And the charm and the humor, you just suddenly go, I forgive you. Do it again.

• 1:19:44Dax Shepard?

  In fact, nobody does shitty like he does.

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:47Dax Shepard?

  He is the very best.

• 1:19:49Speaker 01

  There's like just a few handful that can pull off unlikables so well.

• 1:19:53Speaker 02

  And by the way, the first time I've worked with someone who is directing and acting, that is a juggling act. That is a skill set.

• 1:19:59Speaker 01

  He's directing the show.

• 1:20:00Speaker 02

  He directed the first two.

• 1:20:02Dax Shepard?

  He's doing what he did on Ozark.

• 1:20:03Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:20:04Dax Shepard?

  You've not wanted to direct?

• 1:20:06Speaker 02

  I would love to, but I really enjoy the producing side. I really enjoy bringing folk together and ideas to life. Directing requires so much work. I will, I hope one day.

• 1:20:16Dax Shepard?

  You have something with Monica's new favorite. Was it writer or director that wrote, what's your threesome movie you love so much? Challengers.

• 1:20:23Speaker 01

  Challengers. That was such a good movie.

• 1:20:26Dax Shepard?

  Who are you working with now?

• 1:20:27Speaker 02

  Justin Kuritzkis, the writer. I'm working with him on something based on the 1968 debates between Gore Vidal and Buckley Jr.

• 1:20:36Dax Shepard?

  That's a great doc. That's one of my favorite docs.

• 1:20:38Speaker 02

  Best of enemies.

• 1:20:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:40Speaker 02

  That's what we were inspired by.

• 1:20:41Speaker 01

  Wow, that'll be awesome.

• 1:20:42Dax Shepard?

  Have you seen that, Monica?

• 1:20:43Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:20:44Speaker 02

  It's an incredible documentary.

• 1:20:46Dax Shepard?

  It's also very interesting in today's times to watch that because you have two people that are polar opposites and they're both brilliant. And just to watch them go at it and the way they could go at it and how entertaining that was. And yet it wasn't like file into this camp and declare yourself this. It was like fun discourse.

• 1:21:02Speaker 02

  At the highest level of insight and wit, but my goodness, the respect for each other just slowly, well slowly disintegrates. In real time.

• 1:21:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  That's fun.

• 1:21:15Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so Black Rabbit's the show with Bateman, right?

• 1:21:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:19Dax Shepard?

  That's on Netflix? That's coming?

• 1:21:20Speaker 02

  It'll be next year on Netflix, yes.

• 1:21:22Dax Shepard?

  And then the third thing is a Star Wars project.

• 1:21:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:26Dax Shepard?

  Called Skeleton Crew. The Order and Skeleton Crew come out with it three days of one another.

• 1:21:32Speaker 02

  That's right. The Order will be in cinemas from December 6th and Skeleton Crew is on that week on Disney+

• 1:21:39Dax Shepard?

  This is just my own selfish curiosity. When you did Peter Pan and Wendy, was that supposed to come out theatrically? Or do you always know it was gonna be a streamer?

• 1:21:46Speaker 02

  I assumed it was gonna come out theatrically and it was shot in such a way. I mean, this is David Lowery. He's a real filmmaker and the scale of the thing was just magnificent. And I was lucky enough to see it in the cinema when they screened it for me. I don't know what went on there. It was one of those many unanswered questions that people seem to be posed at the moment about streamers making movies for, I don't know. I assumed that Disney had enough confidence that every holiday, every parent wants to go to the movies with their kids, right? And if it's Peter Pan and Wendy, you're gonna all go. You're gonna watch it on Disney Plus too. I've never quite understood why one would stop the other.

• 1:22:21Dax Shepard?

  But a lot of actors got fucked. There was like a two-year window where people were signing up for big movies and presumably they had box office bonuses or they had participation and success. And then they were like, well, guess what? That's completely off the table. None of them really stepped up and said, here's the money you would have normally made.

• 1:22:38Speaker 02

  No. To me, it's more about the responsibility also of the bigger companies who Disney are a tempole organization that people will go to the cinemas to see that. It's not like it's an odd arty film. It's a Disney movie. And like I said, I mean, if that comes out on the holiday, everyone with a child and everyone who's a Disney fan will go see it and go support it.

• 1:22:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, they have to. They have to fill up those days with the kids.

• 1:23:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:23:02Dax Shepard?

  Believe you me.

• 1:23:03Speaker 02

  Let's go twice.

• 1:23:04Speaker 01

  That's Zach's scariest time of the year, the week between Christmas and New Year's.

• 1:23:10Dax Shepard?

  I'll tell you what I did, Jude. Two Christmases ago, we go hard for Christmas. We go hard for everything. You just saw my yard. There's skeletons everywhere. We go hard.

• 1:23:17Speaker 02

  Prepping for Halloween.

• 1:23:18Dax Shepard?

  And the problem with going really hard is we went hard all of December two years ago. And then we get to the big day and it's Christmas. We unwrap our presents. And I go, I could feel everyone's dopamine leave. There's nothing more to look forward to. And I go, my God, we've got 10 more days together.

• 1:23:35Speaker 02

  How do we do this?

• 1:23:36Dax Shepard?

  It's all downhill. So two years ago, I said, new family rule. Every year on Christmas, the second we finish opening the presents, we get on an airplane and we go somewhere. And we did that last year and by God, it worked. And it's a great day to travel. No one's fucking there.

• 1:23:50Speaker 02

  It's a great idea. I do it because in the UK, the weather is so awful. My wife loves Christmas, wants to be near the family. I do too. I just don't, I do too.

• 1:23:58Dax Shepard?

  I love them, but you gotta keep everyone busy.

• 1:24:00Speaker 02

  Gotta keep everyone busy. And I always find the role of dad is usually unpacking and packing things. So I'm also suddenly going, why am I filling the car up? And now I'm emptying the car. I don't know, I'm filling the car back up and stuff. And now I'm emptying like, this is a lot of time out here.

• 1:24:14Dax Shepard?

  Do we need all this fucking shit to go out all these places?

• 1:24:17Speaker 02

  I know. We've got to carry all the presents out to Auntie Julie's house. You know, okay. But because of the weather, getting out of the UK on Boxing Day is a must. Go find some warm weather.

• 1:24:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, let's get the fuck out of here.

• 1:24:29Speaker 01

  Oh, this just reminded me, I have a question. What is the movie? Cause as we've discussed, you've done so many incredible ones. I have a guess as to the one that gets brought up the most to you on the street. Is it the holiday?

• 1:24:42Speaker 02

  It was Christmas themed. I like the segue there.

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  I mean, I just remembered it because of that.

• 1:24:46Speaker 02

  It's a remarkable thing. I had a feeling making that Nancy Meyers, the director, has a really forensic, sharp eye for creating those cute meat. Sweet, but not saccharine movies. They satisfy from the aesthetic to the dialogue. There's just enough humor. There's a little romance. They're smart, but she goes about them with a real attention to detail. So you hope it's going to be a success when it opens. You do not think it's going to become

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  For decades and decades.

• 1:25:16Speaker 02

  For decades, a Christmas kind of routine.

• 1:25:19Speaker 01

  Yes, it's in my routine. I watch it every Christmas. I still love it.

• 1:25:24Dax Shepard?

  Is Monica right? That's the one people.

• 1:25:25Speaker 02

  So popular and they make it part of their Christmas. It's a lovely thing.

• 1:25:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you gotta learn to be grateful for.

• 1:25:31Speaker 02

  Hell, yeah.

• 1:25:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, all the little things.

• 1:25:34Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 1:25:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, when you're part of the fabric of Someone's holiday. That's lovely.

• 1:25:40Speaker 02

  My one big issue with it was the name Graham. And I apologize to everyone called Graham out there. But in the UK, Graham's a little bit of a, okay, I really do apologize.

• 1:25:48Dax Shepard?

  You gotta be careful here. I get in name trouble all the time.

• 1:25:52Speaker 02

  I was just like, can we just call him Jack or John or, you know? And Nancy just really wanted Graham.

• 1:25:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, she got it.

• 1:25:59Speaker 02

  Because you see, at least in the States, you say Graham. But in England, we call him Graham.

• 1:26:04Dax Shepard?

  Ew.

• 1:26:05Speaker 02

  Graham.

• 1:26:05Dax Shepard?

  Graham.

• 1:26:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's not.

• 1:26:06Speaker 02

  Graham.

• 1:26:07Dax Shepard?

  Apologies to Graham's.

• 1:26:08Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 1:26:09Dax Shepard?

  Y'all should move here to the States where we'll call you Graham.

• 1:26:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:12Dax Shepard?

  So Graham Norton.

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  Oh shit.

• 1:26:14Dax Shepard?

  Graham, Graham.

• 1:26:15Speaker 02

  Now he's going for.

• 1:26:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think every year, because we have a routine. I told you we go hard in December. It starts with family vacation, the Christmas vacation movie.

• 1:26:29Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, it's nice.

• 1:26:30Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Yeah, I can imagine being in it and being upset about it. But on the outside, as an actor that's not in it, I'm like, what a goddamn blessing. Every year, I appreciate Chevy Chase for two hours every year. And I'm going to until I'm dead.

• 1:26:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:45Dax Shepard?

  That is such a gift.

• 1:26:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. Where do you go on holiday when you live in California?

• 1:26:49Dax Shepard?

  We went to Mexico. I'll tell you exactly what I do. It's so embarrassing to say out loud, but as I've gotten money, I've become a total hotel snob. So all I do is I go to fourseasons.com and I look at the list of hotels. And then I go to see which ones are booked and how long it'll take us to get there. I don't give a fuck where we go, as long as there's a Four Seasons there. And so it turned out the one that was closest and had availability was in Mexico. And we went and then it was delightful.

• 1:27:16Speaker 02

  It's great climate, lovely water.

• 1:27:17Dax Shepard?

  Everything was great. It was a big win. And you're in Mexico, so they'll let you do something they would never let you do in the States, which is I got a couples massage with my then eight-year-old daughter. They won't massage a minor, especially not an eight-year-old in the States. But there, everything was great. And I'm laying next to her and it was one of my, I mean, other than watching Lincoln at the era's tour, listening to Delta go, oh, wow. I like this.

• 1:27:43Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:27:43Dax Shepard?

  Oh daddy, I want to get a massage all the time. Yeah, that's how it works. This is a very special thing.

• 1:27:48Speaker 02

  That's so cute.

• 1:27:50Dax Shepard?

  Wow. It was so good. I got in the room with her, like, experiencing her first massage and she loved it. I bet.

• 1:27:57Speaker 02

  That's really funny.

• 1:27:58Speaker 01

  She's gonna get a couples massage when she's married and I used to go with my dad to get couples massages.

• 1:28:03Speaker 02

  This one's not as good as the one I had with my dad.

• 1:28:06Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:28:07Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. So let's just for one second talk about skeleton crew because that's also coming out. But I doubt you're gonna come see us again before December 3rd, which breaks my heart. So let's talk about it now.

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  What's there to say? I'm not allowed to say anything.

• 1:28:18Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you're not. Yeah, that makes sense.

• 1:28:20Speaker 02

  No, I can answer anything you want to know.

• 1:28:23Dax Shepard?

  Well, I just think it's pretty cool to step into that world, I guess, Star Wars.

• 1:28:28Speaker 02

  It was really cool. I'm not like an insane Star Wars fan, but I grew up, it was a formative part of my childhood. I remember seeing those first three and they blew my little mind. And I probably ran around my yard for the next 10 years going pew pew and, you know, I'm Han. And my friends going, you know, all of the who didn't, right? Being very jealous of my neighbor, Daniel, who had a lot more figures than me. I think he even had an at at, which really pissed me off. I know.

• 1:28:58Dax Shepard?

  That's like a $200 toy.

• 1:28:59Speaker 02

  I befriended him and.

• 1:29:01Dax Shepard?

  And yet must.

• 1:29:02Speaker 02

  Went over there and melted a few of them as they got laid, but, you know. But it was formative and made enough of an impression that stepping into it was just honestly a real joy. And I was lucky that the character that they wanted me to play has a really interesting contradiction. And he's got a swagger and he's interesting. He's got a lot of sides. But the genius was that the protagonists of this show are kids. So it doesn't have the sort of worthiness that some of the latter work I think had, which I, by the way, enjoyed. But it's through the eyes of these children who get lost in that world.

• 1:29:42Speaker 02

  I just thought it was a stroke of genius. It adds a kind of innocence. It adds an awe with real jeopardy still. That I just think really breathed some sparkle back in.

• 1:29:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Okay. My last question for you is about your wife. She is a behavioral psychologist.

• 1:29:57Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 1:29:58Dax Shepard?

  That's so hot. Our favorite guest.

• 1:29:59Speaker 01

  That is so hot.

• 1:30:00Dax Shepard?

  We do experts on Wednesdays.

• 1:30:02Speaker 01

  We've had a few behavioral.

• 1:30:03Dax Shepard?

  We constantly have psychologists on and I love it, but of course I'm always most intrigued, if I'm being honest. You have this playbook. You kind of understand emotions. You know how to articulate how you feel, but then you're also just a real human in real life. Like in some weird way, you think they would have the answer key for existing, but I've never really got to interview the husband of someone with the answer key. And when you guys get in like a spat, can she just go like, here's exactly what's going on. You're responding to this thing when you were nine years old that you already told me and I already fucking know this and jump to it.

• 1:30:37Speaker 02

  The short answer is absolutely.

• 1:30:41Speaker 02

  But the skill set that I have observed and appreciate the most is her calm in that scenario. I was so immature before I met her. You know, I thought a row, an argument or a fight was getting really angry and shouting a lot and storming around. And what she taught me was that you can row and be perfectly calm and sit down. It's just a conversation where we really disagree. That was like an epiphany for me that blew my little mind. Oh, this is called being adult.

• 1:31:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. What age were you when you guys met?

• 1:31:15Speaker 02

  I was 40 and it was an ability to suddenly slow down and really look at what was being discussed, what was being disagreed on. She's also incredibly generous. So she has a wonderful empathy, so much more so than me. And so that any given time, I also know that even if she sees the root of the pathetic little decision I've made or all stubborn little foot stomp I'm making, she kind of goes about it with great embrace. She's a very awesome person and hugely patient. She puts up with me.

• 1:31:51Dax Shepard?

  If I put myself in your shoes, I'm very opinionated on how we should raise the kids. It's very important to me. I have a lot of opinions. I care more about that than anything. And I might have a chip on my shoulder that in theory, she probably would be right. Theoretically, if we were debating this course of action with the kids, I might feel like, hey, just because you have all this training and knowledge, doesn't mean my opinion isn't as valid.

• 1:32:16Speaker 02

  I'm lucky in that I've done it before. So where we are a pretty formidable team, I like to think, is that she has this study, she has patience and sort of wisdom, and I've been in the trenches and gotten muddy and bloody. So I can sort of go, yeah, that ain't gonna work. Let me tell you, we can go down that path, we're gonna lose teeth.

• 1:32:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, in theory, it's great. In practice, this is gonna happen.

• 1:32:38Speaker 02

  And it's a good mixture.

• 1:32:40Dax Shepard?

  Is she a Brit or an American?

• 1:32:41Speaker 02

  She's British. Oh, she is.

• 1:32:42Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Okay.

• 1:32:44Speaker 01

  What's that do to your brain?

• 1:32:47Dax Shepard?

  Well, I don't know. I like it, I guess.

• 1:32:51Speaker 02

  That she's British?

• 1:32:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, because I like exotic things. And if I had the option for exotic, I don't know, there's something nice about the fact that you're with a Brit.

• 1:33:01Speaker 01

  Because look at your wife.

• 1:33:03Dax Shepard?

  She's pretty fucking American.

• 1:33:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:06Dax Shepard?

  Some might argue she's America's sweetheart.

• 1:33:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, some might. Like, the world, the world says so.

• 1:33:12Dax Shepard?

  I don't know what I'm saying. I thought there was something there and there's not.

• 1:33:14Speaker 01

  You were looking, you were fishing. That's not right.

• 1:33:17Dax Shepard?

  I don't know. Well, all I know is this guy was the limit for your options and you got yourself a hometown girl. So I think I like that.

• 1:33:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was just very, very lucky to meet someone at that moment who had the generosity just to sort of get me and love me for me. That was the big mind blowing moment.

• 1:33:35Dax Shepard?

  Do you struggle at all? I had this hang up. I was with the girl for nine years. She was with me through all the struggle. And then we broke up and I was really quite bothered by the fact that I would meet someone that already knew the successful version of me, already knew someone potentially on TV. Does that make any sense to you?

• 1:33:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, it does make sense, but it was pretty clear from the get go. First of all, I'd been pretty successful and known for quite a chunk of my life.

• 1:34:03Dax Shepard?

  Your whole life, really, yeah.

• 1:34:04Speaker 02

  And in a way, I sort of thought that that was the issue moving forward and finding someone. And to be honest, I'd gotten to a place where I thought, well, you know, I'd been pretty lucky. I felt like I'd fallen in love before a couple of times. It hadn't worked out. That's fine. I was healthy and happy. I was sort of starting to like myself again. I'd forgiven myself for some stupid behavior and moved on. So what was key was that she was clearly not interested in this public person or any of that, but in me. And that was mind blowing to me. And we became really great friends very, very quickly, but that was the first step.

• 1:34:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I don't want to bring this up because it's not a fun topic and I don't want to bring up anything scandalous at all. All I want to ask, the one curiosity I have is during this fucking phone hacking thing, were you ever getting suspicious at any point? Like someone's got to be, like, were there moments where you're like, this is inexplicable?

• 1:34:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, they would turn up at places in the middle of nowhere, or I'd be taking the kids on holiday.

• 1:35:05Dax Shepard?

  Mentally freaky.

• 1:35:06Speaker 02

  Very, very freaky. You start to circle the wagons and really start analyzing who in the circle is doing what. You get a little paranoid.

• 1:35:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:16Speaker 02

  You get a little antsy about things. It just spins your head out.

• 1:35:20Speaker 01

  It's pretty traumatic, really.

• 1:35:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:22Dax Shepard?

  I think it's hugely traumatic. It's so nuts that someone greenlit that.

• 1:35:27Speaker 02

  I know, on such a huge scale.

• 1:35:29Dax Shepard?

  Right. They were doing the prime minister?

• 1:35:31Speaker 02

  And they figured out that paper, plus I'm sure some of the others, the content they were publishing every week, 80 to 90% of the content had been illegally sourced. I mean, that's how much they were outsourcing and paying for these people to provide these stories illegally. Crazy.

• 1:35:48Dax Shepard?

  I honestly think it would run the risk of making someone lose their mind.

• 1:35:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:52Dax Shepard?

  Because you're already, let's just be honest, and I deal with it to some extent, not the degree you do, but reality's already been augmented. Like, I go to Starbucks and people there know me. That's its own thing to come to terms with and integrate into your existence.

• 1:36:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. I've got to remember it. I've got to think back. The color that I'm seeing, I was just pissed off.

• 1:36:11Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:36:12Speaker 02

  A lot. There was a good 10 years I was angry. I got kind of animal primal because the thing that really pissed me off was the invasion in my kids' lives. And then I realized that I was the one actually upsetting the kids because they were seeing dad being like, get the fuck away, go away, la la la. What are you doing here? All of that stuff whilst trying to provide a great, hey, we're all going to the park. Let's go to the park. Fuck off. What are you doing here? It was just a messy time.

• 1:36:39Dax Shepard?

  Well, the kids, that's a really important piece because I will say I'm really nice in general, in public.

• 1:36:44Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 1:36:45Dax Shepard?

  In the times I've been really aggressive.

• 1:36:47Speaker 02

  I want to be a nice guy. I want to be good and kind.

• 1:36:50Dax Shepard?

  Same, same, same. The only times people have seen really bad versions of myself is when I'm with my kids. I'm sorry, they didn't sign up for this. I know you think somehow that's a price they should pay for having me as a parent, but that's bullshit. That's sins of our fathers stuff.

• 1:37:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:37:05Dax Shepard?

  And yeah, I've been my worst self because I'm already a suspicious person. So I'd be like, oh, I know who it is. I know what's happening. Something's happening. I would feel it. That would be maddening. You really went through something.

• 1:37:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it's interesting to discuss because again, I'm someone who tends to genuinely just look forward. I don't dwell on the past much. I don't really look back over old work or old experiences. It is kind of therapeutic and interesting to discuss. And I remember the anger. I also remember it was inevitable that a, once the line was drawn under it, or it seemed to subside, there needed to be a time, a space away from everything. I needed a lot of healing had to take place. And it was a big turning point. The responsibility was also on me, meaning I didn't want the kids to see that stuff. So I had to learn how to deal with it in another way, too.

• 1:37:51Dax Shepard?

  That's the thing I really relate to you is like, I do that thing. I'm defending them in quotes. But really, all they've done is seen me go from normal to really agitated and aggressive to someone else. And now they're just. Absorbing all that energy.

• 1:38:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:04Dax Shepard?

  So whatever damages person that was filming my kids, which I was pissed about did to them. What I ended up doing was worse. And then having to fucking accept that. Now it's like another layer. And I was like, that person took away my control and power. But then I did something even worse with it.

• 1:38:19Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:38:20Dax Shepard?

  It's hard.

• 1:38:21Speaker 02

  Big old knot. What a chapter.

• 1:38:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Wow. You lived through that. I bet there's still residual decompression.

• 1:38:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, probably.

• 1:38:28Dax Shepard?

  Well, thanks for telling me about that. I read that and I was like, oh, man, the things I've had.

• 1:38:32Speaker 01

  I just can't believe it was allowed.

• 1:38:34Speaker 02

  Well, it was highly illegal in the end.

• 1:38:35Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:38:36Speaker 02

  They paid out the thing closed. They put one of the guys in prison.

• 1:38:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that someone went to jail.

• 1:38:41Speaker 02

  Oh, good.

• 1:38:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:42Speaker 01

  I mean, it's like, good, but it still happened. You can't undo.

• 1:38:46Speaker 02

  Do you know how they found out in the end? So there had been complaints. There were suspicions arisen, aroused by various people in the public eye. And we were sort of told, sort of shut up. You guys are famous. This is what you deserve. A young girl was murdered and they hacked her telephone.

• 1:39:05Speaker 01

  Oh, my.

• 1:39:06Speaker 02

  And so they'd listened to messages, which meant the police thought she was still alive. And when that got out, they finally realized that's how low they went.

• 1:39:15Speaker 01

  Oh. That's her.

• 1:39:17Speaker 02

  Murdered child's phone. Yeah.

• 1:39:20Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:39:21Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:39:22Dax Shepard?

  Wow. England's a weird place. I've only sued one of those magazines and it was a English magazine. It's interesting because you guys actually have more protections than we do.

• 1:39:31Speaker 02

  It's just a moral thing, right? They just decide, let's really push the line.

• 1:39:35Dax Shepard?

  It's just really curious because like you have more legal protection there.

• 1:39:38Speaker 02

  That is bizarre.

• 1:39:39Dax Shepard?

  And yet they seem to offend worse than anyone else.

• 1:39:43Speaker 02

  I think they pushed that boundary of freedom of speech or hide behind it rather, saying this is freedom of journalism.

• 1:39:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:39:50Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes. As if we need to know, like you're in a position of power or in the government. Well, Jude, this has been a blast. I really like you.

• 1:40:00Speaker 02

  Do people normally come in and just start talking? I feel really.

• 1:40:03Dax Shepard?

  No, that's exactly how it goes.

• 1:40:06Speaker 01

  This is how it goes.

• 1:40:08Dax Shepard?

  That's how it works.

• 1:40:09Speaker 02

  What a joy.

• 1:40:09Dax Shepard?

  But this was fun because we have some mutual friends and I've never met you. And you're fucking delightful.

• 1:40:13Speaker 02

  Well, you too. It's been such a thrill to be on this, really. I've loved it. Now you need to tell me, other than Anna, who else cries? I didn't cry. I got a little teary.

• 1:40:21Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I'm gonna have to send you a list. I mean, not to brag, but we've had 800 people and I bet you a good 30 of them have cried.

• 1:40:28Speaker 01

  At least 30.

• 1:40:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe more.

• 1:40:31Dax Shepard?

  Did I make Prince Harry cry?

• 1:40:33Speaker 01

  No, he didn't. The Brits, I guess, don't cry.

• 1:40:35Dax Shepard?

  Well, they're kind of known for that. They cry at the pub in the bathroom.

• 1:40:40Dax Shepard?

  Six pints.

• 1:40:41Speaker 01

  Under the stairwell.

• 1:40:42Dax Shepard?

  They let Sneako.

• 1:40:43Speaker 01

  They let it all out there. That's it.

• 1:40:46Speaker 02

  When they're hiding.

• 1:40:46Dax Shepard?

  Your autobiography should be called Under the Stairwell. From Under the Stairwell to the Top of the Stage.

• 1:40:54Speaker 02

  Highlight and Limelight.

• 1:40:56Dax Shepard?

  Well, this has been a blast. I hope you'll come back the next time you have three movies coming out at once. All right, be well.

• 1:41:01Speaker 01

  Bye.

• 1:41:02Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:41:03Speaker 04

  He's an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's gonna let him have the facts.

• 1:41:12Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 1:41:13Dax Shepard?

  Is this Vinty?

• 1:41:15Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:41:15Dax Shepard?

  Okay, brand new.

• 1:41:16Speaker 01

  Regular.

• 1:41:17Dax Shepard?

  Right off the factory floor. Darn it.

• 1:41:20Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:41:21Dax Shepard?

  Well, this would be a spoiler for a future episode, but I was gonna put my cashmere in a little bag and bring it in so you could.

• 1:41:29Speaker 01

  Save it for that episode.

• 1:41:31Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great.

• 1:41:31Speaker 01

  I have a big update.

• 1:41:33Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you do?

• 1:41:36Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:41:37Dax Shepard?

  The way you're steadying yourself for this update.

• 1:41:39Speaker 01

  Well, I need visual. I need, um, line of vision, field of vision.

• 1:41:44Dax Shepard?

  Field of vision, line of sight.

• 1:41:46Speaker 01

  Line of sight. Look.

• 1:41:48Dax Shepard?

  Oh my gosh, is that the bear?

• 1:41:51Speaker 01

  This is the black bear. Well, hold on.

• 1:41:54Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:41:54Speaker 01

  It's not the black bear. The original black bear is still.

• 1:42:00Dax Shepard?

  Out of your reach.

• 1:42:01Speaker 01

  Impossible. Except, so I went to the restaurant.

• 1:42:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:06Speaker 01

  I chatted with my friend who works there.

• 1:42:09Dax Shepard?

  Okay. A server or a manager or the owner?

• 1:42:11Speaker 01

  I think the owner.

• 1:42:12Dax Shepard?

  Or the valet?

• 1:42:13Speaker 01

  No, owner, manager, all of it. He does all of it.

• 1:42:15Dax Shepard?

  All the above.

• 1:42:16Speaker 01

  And, um.

• 1:42:17Dax Shepard?

  The bald guy? Is he missing hair?

• 1:42:19Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 1:42:21Dax Shepard?

  Okay. I've got a great product for him.

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  No, he looks great.

• 1:42:24Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great.

• 1:42:25Speaker 01

  You know, we chatted about the mug. Obviously, word has got to them about what's been going on.

• 1:42:31Dax Shepard?

  Well, they got active in the comments. I don't know if I, I think I didn't tell you that. Because I wanted to preserve your overall relationship with the place you love. But they got active in the comments. They were like, don't steal our mug. They were a little, they got a little. They really didn't get the joke that I was suggesting, steal the mug and leave money.

• 1:42:51Speaker 01

  I see.

• 1:42:51Dax Shepard?

  And they got, I think they got a little worried. So they got, they got busy in the comments.

• 1:42:56Dax Shepard?

  Not sure that they know about.

• 1:42:58Speaker 01

  Definitely don't steal anyone's anything.

• 1:43:01Dax Shepard?

  Unless you're gonna leave $1,000. I bet they would be proud.

• 1:43:05Speaker 01

  This is, so I think this is sort of part of the issue. Like, they're sold out completely. The mugs are sold out. Every single mug on the website is sold out.

• 1:43:13Dax Shepard?

  They're gone.

• 1:43:14Speaker 01

  I don't know if that's Armcherry's.

• 1:43:16Dax Shepard?

  Were they sold out when you went and looked? Well, I know they weren't because you read from me the website.

• 1:43:21Speaker 01

  They were not.

• 1:43:21Dax Shepard?

  They weren't. A lot of them were available?

• 1:43:23Speaker 01

  Yes. So I have a feeling our beautiful Armcherry's.

• 1:43:27Dax Shepard?

  Got active.

• 1:43:28Speaker 01

  And are supporting this wonderful company, Salty Sea Dogs.

• 1:43:31Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that's what it's called. A lot of people were curious.

• 1:43:35Speaker 01

  If they want to know more about my stuff, they can follow me on Instagram.

• 1:43:38Dax Shepard?

  Oh, right. Okay. Cause you were tagging people and things.

• 1:43:41Speaker 01

  Exactly. I do believe that we had something to do with that and I, and that makes me really happy and my heart feel very full.

• 1:43:49Dax Shepard?

  Oh, good. So this is many parts. This is a thank you?

• 1:43:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is a huge thank you. I went to the restaurant. We talked. The owner said potentially that if they get more in, like more mugs in general. He'll give me an original black bear. There's two.

• 1:44:10Dax Shepard?

  Two different bears?

• 1:44:11Speaker 01

  No, there's two only left in the world.

• 1:44:14Dax Shepard?

  In the world?

• 1:44:15Speaker 01

  At that restaurant.

• 1:44:16Dax Shepard?

  That's one of them? Okay, sorry.

• 1:44:18Speaker 01

  So, so that bear has sort of a like, what's this shape? Triangle sort of?

• 1:44:26Speaker 01

  That's not the right.

• 1:44:27Dax Shepard?

  What if you didn't know the name of a triangle?

• 1:44:29Speaker 01

  Well, it's not a triangle, but it's like.

• 1:44:31Dax Shepard?

  Thank God it was on the card. It's a trapezoid?

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  Oh my God, speaking of the cognitive test, uh, you know what I could not identify? Did I already say this?

• 1:44:40Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 1:44:40Speaker 01

  I could not identify for the life of me, a seahorse.

• 1:44:45Dax Shepard?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:44:47Speaker 01

  She showed, you know, there were pictures of things and there were like ball and cat, like so obvious.

• 1:44:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:52Speaker 01

  And then one was this thing and I was like, oh, a.

• 1:44:57Dax Shepard?

  A pelican, a sandwich.

• 1:44:59Speaker 01

  A, a sea lion, like I, I could not.

• 1:45:04Dax Shepard?

  Sea lion makes sense because that's a thing.

• 1:45:06Speaker 01

  It is a thing, but it's not that thing.

• 1:45:08Dax Shepard?

  No, no.

• 1:45:09Speaker 01

  I never got, she had to tell me.

• 1:45:10Dax Shepard?

  She told you.

• 1:45:11Speaker 01

  Yes. And then I was like, I think this is racism.

• 1:45:14Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 1:45:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:15Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:45:16Speaker 01

  Indians don't. Misogyny? Indians don't learn. No, this is an Indian thing.

• 1:45:19Dax Shepard?

  Because women don't like horses as much as men, according to Barbie.

• 1:45:22Speaker 01

  Women love horses.

• 1:45:23Dax Shepard?

  That is true, but according to Barbie, men love horses are the patriarch.

• 1:45:28Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:45:28Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:45:29Speaker 01

  Okay. I guess it's both, per usual.

• 1:45:31Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:45:32Speaker 01

  Per usual, it's both things.

• 1:45:33Dax Shepard?

  Laundry list.

• 1:45:34Speaker 01

  Really? I was like, Indians don't know about seahorses. I'd be curious if you're an Indian listener.

• 1:45:40Dax Shepard?

  And you grew up in Atlanta, Georgia.

• 1:45:42Speaker 01

  No, you can have grown up anywhere in this country, like, because, and I wonder if this is Indian for real.

• 1:45:51Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now we're transferring into real.

• 1:45:52Speaker 01

  Okay, we gotta get back to the black bear, but one second.

• 1:45:54Dax Shepard?

  Um, cause like I'll suggest that genetically you're probably more tolerant of high heat. And you're like, that's preposterous.

• 1:46:02Speaker 01

  I didn't say that's preposterous.

• 1:46:03Dax Shepard?

  What'd you say?

• 1:46:04Speaker 01

  I said, stop talking.

• 1:46:06Dax Shepard?

  Just shut up about, only I'm allowed to talk about being Indian.

• 1:46:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:09Dax Shepard?

  And I, that's, that's fair.

• 1:46:10Speaker 01

  Well, I think you're right about that potentially, that I have some genetic disposition to high heat, but also I grew up in the South.

• 1:46:17Dax Shepard?

  But I'm going to argue, it's not a great argument because the US is also surrounded on three sides by ocean.

• 1:46:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:46:24Dax Shepard?

  Cause India is a goddamn peninsula. This is a subcontinent. This thing is submerged in water where seahorses are roaming free and wild. I would even think you'd over index in seahorse knowledge.

• 1:46:36Speaker 01

  Seahorses there.

• 1:46:37Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:46:39Speaker 01

  And, and also, you know, when I would babysit young kids like yours.

• 1:46:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:44Speaker 01

  You know, here in America, there's a big emphasis on teaching.

• 1:46:50Dax Shepard?

  Your position is just like you've arrived. You almost sound like Steven Seagal. How do you say in English?

• 1:46:55Speaker 01

  Uh, that is not fair. I am Indian. Okay.

• 1:47:00Speaker 01

  I think there's a big

• 1:47:01Dax Shepard?

  Now I sound like Trump when he's talking about Kamala Harris. I don't know. She's Indian. That's fine. She was, she was black. Now she's Indian.

• 1:47:09Speaker 01

  She used to be black. Now she's Indian. Oh my God. I think there's a big emphasis in America for American schoolchildren and American, okay, preschool, when you're like, have babysitters and your parents are reading you books and stuff.

• 1:47:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:26Speaker 01

  There's a big emphasis on animals.

• 1:47:28Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:29Speaker 01

  And like, identify this animal. What's this? What's this? I didn't have that.

• 1:47:34Dax Shepard?

  Well, to be clear, I didn't either from my parents. I had it from my grandparents. I would go to my grandma Yolesh and she had those National Geographic books and she wanted me to know.

• 1:47:42Speaker 01

  But she's white.

• 1:47:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I'm very, very smart and educated. It's the most educated of my lineage.

• 1:47:48Speaker 01

  Right. Oh, right.

• 1:47:49Dax Shepard?

  Only master's degree holder.

• 1:47:50Speaker 01

  I thought you said, I'm very, very smart and educated.

• 1:47:53Dax Shepard?

  Well, you are, and you're my grandma. Give me your grandma.

• 1:47:57Speaker 01

  This is like, this is like Massimo. I, I thought you said the words, I'm very smart. Not Monica is, but I'm very smart.

• 1:48:04Dax Shepard?

  No, I'm the average intelligence, except the cog test.

• 1:48:07Speaker 01

  I know. You, you're very smart.

• 1:48:09Dax Shepard?

  But back to, so I didn't have that either, but I did have it from my grandma. I'm just adding context for your American, because I grew up in America and you didn't. So I'm telling you how it worked.

• 1:48:19Speaker 01

  It's more American people put emphasis on animals. I think that's, that's real.

• 1:48:25Dax Shepard?

  Is it?

• 1:48:25Speaker 01

  Yes, because pets.

• 1:48:27Dax Shepard?

  You might totally be right, but I am really want to know the thought process of how you came to that.

• 1:48:32Speaker 01

  I am coming to it real time. I don't think pets are a huge part of the culture at all. I really don't.

• 1:48:39Dax Shepard?

  In India?

• 1:48:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:48:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Well, God knows they have dogs. We saw a lot of dogs.

• 1:48:43Speaker 01

  Dogs.

• 1:48:44Dax Shepard?

  And they have cows walking around the street.

• 1:48:45Speaker 01

  They're roaming though. They're not pets.

• 1:48:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So here's the one I was going to launch really, really quick. And this is not thought out and probably full of holes like Swiss cheese, preferably appostromi with coleslaw and all the Russian dressing.

• 1:48:58Dax Shepard?

  We don't have exotic animals, you know? We don't have lions and tigers and elephants and

• 1:49:04Speaker 01

  monkeys.

• 1:49:04Dax Shepard?

  monkeys. And so they're very exotic and interesting to us. But maybe if you grew up in Africa or India where these things are indigenous, they're not that interesting. So that could be a kind of an argument, like they're so exotic to us. They're almost like fairy tales, dragons and whatever.

• 1:49:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:24Dax Shepard?

  I'm not standing on that argument, but I did just come up with it.

• 1:49:26Speaker 01

  I think it's more, America's obsessed with pets and like, because I did learn about elephants.

• 1:49:34Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:49:34Speaker 01

  Because elephants are a big part of that culture. And so my grandparents, you know, there's like elephants everywhere.

• 1:49:39Dax Shepard?

  Big symbol.

• 1:49:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I knew about them.

• 1:49:42Dax Shepard?

  Okay, here, I got a new one that just came off the assembly line. We were raised on Disney cartoons and the stars of the cartoons are generally animals. They're Wile E. Coyote and all these Fun and Dumbo and what's the little deer, poor Bambi. So I do think our cultural products are pretty rife with animals.

• 1:50:04Speaker 01

  That's what I said.

• 1:50:05Dax Shepard?

  But I don't watch any cartoons in India, so I don't know if those two are populated. I bet they are. Kids like talking animals, don't you think?

• 1:50:11Speaker 01

  I don't know. Unfortunately, I'm not, I didn't grow up there.

• 1:50:15Dax Shepard?

  Should we call your dad?

• 1:50:16Speaker 01

  And ask?

• 1:50:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, ask him if, when he was a kid, were the cartoons, were the, the characters in cartoons largely animals or were they humans?

• 1:50:23Speaker 01

  I don't think he had TV or movies. He walked to school. No, he didn't.

• 1:50:28Dax Shepard?

  Let's ask him. Let's get it straight from the horse's mouth. Ding ding ding, horse. We call people horse's mouth.

• 1:50:34Speaker 01

  Men love horses.

• 1:50:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, patriarch.

• 1:50:36Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 1:50:37Dax Shepard?

  Well, if your dad goes, how the fuck would I know? I'm American. And he hung up.

• 1:50:41Speaker 01

  I would like that.

• 1:50:42Dax Shepard?

  Me too.

• 1:50:43Speaker 01

  He won't. He never hangs up on me.

• 1:50:45Dax Shepard?

  I don't know why you're asking these fucking questions.

• 1:50:47Speaker 04

  Hey Monica.

• 1:50:48Speaker 01

  Hey Dad, you're on air. Well, not live, but we are recording.

• 1:50:53Dax Shepard?

  Hi.

• 1:50:54Speaker 04

  Hey.

• 1:50:55Dax Shepard?

  How are you?

• 1:50:57Speaker 04

  I'm in a meeting.

• 1:50:58Speaker 01

  Oh, oh no. Okay. Dad, you wanna call me back?

• 1:51:02Speaker 04

  I will.

• 1:51:02Speaker 01

  Okay. All right, bye.

• 1:51:05Dax Shepard?

  That's so cute. He's in a meeting, but if his daughter calls. Ding ding ding, future guest.

• 1:51:10Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:51:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:11Speaker 01

  You gotta pick up when your daughter calls.

• 1:51:13Dax Shepard?

  That's right. She could be running from an attacker.

• 1:51:15Speaker 01

  I don't call a lot. He's like, now's my chance.

• 1:51:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Oh, something's wrong. No, he thinks something's wrong.

• 1:51:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, he does. He does think something's wrong. But nothing's wrong, Dad. You're just on the air.

• 1:51:25Dax Shepard?

  Just trying to figure out if everyone likes animals or just Americans.

• 1:51:29Speaker 01

  What if I said, put me on speaker at your meeting?

• 1:51:34Dax Shepard?

  I wanna poll the group you're with.

• 1:51:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:36Dax Shepard?

  Certainly, you must, I think you need to extend this to Westerners, because certainly when I'm in Europe, people, everyone has dogs.

• 1:51:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:43Dax Shepard?

  In fact, if you go to like Nice and all these little French Riviera towns.

• 1:51:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:48Dax Shepard?

  There are mechanized dog poop scooper uppers, like in Cannes and stuff.

• 1:51:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:51:54Dax Shepard?

  These French let their fucking dogs' waste just fall all over the ground.

• 1:51:58Speaker 01

  They're so willy-nilly.

• 1:51:59Dax Shepard?

  Oh, French.

• 1:52:00Speaker 01

  They're so romantic.

• 1:52:01Dax Shepard?

  So sexy. They have dog poops in the side, and they're, oh, so horny, let's go in today. Oh.

• 1:52:08Speaker 01

  Anyway. I don't know, maybe times have changed in India, but.

• 1:52:13Dax Shepard?

  We were just there, by the way.

• 1:52:14Speaker 01

  We did go to someone's house, and I didn't see any animals there.

• 1:52:17Dax Shepard?

  No, but they weren't hosting guests. They probably put their cats and dogs and seahorses away.

• 1:52:22Speaker 01

  They don't have them. I really don't think it's a, should we ask Hussin? Or do we know? I don't think he grew up with pets.

• 1:52:28Dax Shepard?

  He's gonna be in the same boat as you. He'll tell us what it's like in fucking Stockton, California.

• 1:52:32Speaker 01

  He's gonna say, the culture, he didn't grow up, his parents didn't bring cats and dogs around. My grandfather was a, for a long time, a vet.

• 1:52:45Dax Shepard?

  Legally or just?

• 1:52:46Speaker 01

  No, I think legally.

• 1:52:47Dax Shepard?

  Like I'm a doctor.

• 1:52:48Speaker 01

  No, he like, he was a gen- he was a, he was a, don't laugh at him, he's dead. He was a, he was a professor of genetics.

• 1:52:58Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:52:59Speaker 01

  But.

• 1:52:59Dax Shepard?

  I don't think, I think that's different than a veterinarian.

• 1:53:01Speaker 01

  No, he did a lot of work with animals.

• 1:53:03Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:53:03Speaker 01

  And at one point he was a vet. I don't know all the details, okay?

• 1:53:07Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:53:07Speaker 01

  But listen, even him who was like, knew a lot about animals and was around them, they didn't have pets.

• 1:53:12Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:53:12Speaker 01

  It was, that's like a separate thing. Anyway, Indians don't have pets, okay? We're gonna have a guest on next year who I'm gonna ask.

• 1:53:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:53:22Speaker 01

  And I'm really excited to ask.

• 1:53:23Dax Shepard?

  She won't know either. Are you talking about she'll know if she had pets in America?

• 1:53:27Speaker 01

  What are you talking about?

• 1:53:28Dax Shepard?

  I thought we're trying to figure out if Indians in India know about seahorses and have pets.

• 1:53:33Speaker 01

  It's all related. It's all related. If they themselves weren't around a lot of animals or it wasn't a big part of the culture, they're not teaching their little kids about animals. They're not like picking that out as something, oh, identify all these animals as something important to do. They don't care about that.

• 1:53:51Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:53:51Speaker 01

  So it's why I don't know about seahorses.

• 1:53:53Dax Shepard?

  I'm not pushing back on that. I'm introducing a new thing, which I think helps your argument, which is, I don't know if other countries have aquariums. Aquariums are hu- Wabi, did you have an aquarium?

• 1:54:06Speaker 05

  Uh, kind, yeah. At one point, I had a little aquarium.

• 1:54:09Speaker 01

  Oh, at your house?

• 1:54:10Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and you must have had many friends that had aquariums.

• 1:54:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:54:14Dax Shepard?

  I had an aquarium. I had an aquarium phase, and my buddies all had aquariums.

• 1:54:19Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:54:19Dax Shepard?

  And you, you dumped some seahorses in there. I think you like, you throw them in like powder and then all of a sudden they're alive. There's something really interesting about seahorses where they, they can be transported as a powder and then become seahorses.

• 1:54:31Speaker 01

  God, I'm so happy I was spared that.

• 1:54:34Dax Shepard?

  Seen them moving throughout aquariums.

• 1:54:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:37Dax Shepard?

  Aquarii.

• 1:54:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:39Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:54:40Speaker 01

  Anyway, back to the bear.

• 1:54:41Dax Shepard?

  Wow.

• 1:54:42Speaker 01

  Okay, the original bear mug has like basically a triangle, square bottom, rectangle. Salty Sea Dogs sent me this new bear. And they said, it's only for me.

• 1:54:55Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. Congratulations.

• 1:54:58Speaker 01

  This is so sweet.

• 1:54:59Dax Shepard?

  You know who that bear looks identical to? Did you ever read this book to Lincoln or Delta, The Great Paper Caper?

• 1:55:05Speaker 01

  Ding, ding, ding.

• 1:55:06Dax Shepard?

  What?

• 1:55:07Speaker 01

  Books about animals.

• 1:55:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:55:10Speaker 01

  I did read that to them. Yeah. That's how I learned about bears.

• 1:55:13Dax Shepard?

  That's how the bear is drawn. It looks very similar to that.

• 1:55:17Speaker 01

  It's such a cute bear.

• 1:55:19Dax Shepard?

  The Great Paper Caper is one of my favorite children's books. The drawings are so cute and playful. Remember the owl, they're all like, they show that wide of all of them, what they're doing on their own. Like, well, someone's cutting down trees and using it to make paper. We don't know who. And they show all the suspects and like the, I think the owl's just staring at a tree or something. One of them's peeing, like the, the snow's yellow where he's at. So cute.

• 1:55:44Speaker 01

  That's so cute.

• 1:55:45Speaker 05

  Have you, have you read his Halloween book, Oliver Jeffers?

• 1:55:48Dax Shepard?

  No, what's it called?

• 1:55:50Speaker 05

  There's a ghost in this house. It's Oliver Jeffers is the guy.

• 1:55:53Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 1:55:53Speaker 05

  Who wrote that and illustrates it. And it's got like transparent pages. So there's ghosts when you turn them.

• 1:55:59Speaker 01

  Ooh, exciting.

• 1:56:01Dax Shepard?

  I need to order that. Too late.

• 1:56:03Speaker 01

  No, you can still love it.

• 1:56:04Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I'll be, well, look, we're really far out already for Hollywood, Hollywood, Holly, Halloween 2025. We already have a lot of balls in motion, as you know, In-N-Out Truck.

• 1:56:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:18Dax Shepard?

  So might as well just go, and then we'll also have this new book.

• 1:56:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. Get it now for next year.

• 1:56:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, now for.

• 1:56:23Speaker 01

  Anyway, I'd really want to thank Salty Sea Dugs for this incredible gift. They also, they made a brown bear as well. That's the new one that went up on the website. They sent me that too.

• 1:56:33Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:56:34Speaker 01

  Just in case I liked that one more.

• 1:56:36Dax Shepard?

  So I don't understand why you don't have all of them. You have a brown one and a black one, but there's still one you don't have?

• 1:56:40Speaker 01

  The original black bear. Why can't, this is so easy to follow.

• 1:56:45Dax Shepard?

  Kind of. You've now got two bear mugs and you're telling me you don't have?

• 1:56:49Speaker 01

  There's a third. This one is a one. Of one. Which is very special. The original bear is, there's two. But that live at Budenoki, the restaurant. And then Brown Bear went up on the website, but it is sold out.

• 1:57:04Dax Shepard?

  Do you think they could make me a ball set cowboy mug?

• 1:57:08Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 1:57:09Dax Shepard?

  Cause like the mug part would be the balls. And then there'd be a handle and then there'd be a penis sticking out. And then that cowboy would be on just the, what are you saying? Oh, God. That's a nice.

• 1:57:20Speaker 01

  I don't want to make that make you a penis.

• 1:57:22Dax Shepard?

  Why? It's so playful. You have a painting and we had, we had merch.

• 1:57:26Speaker 01

  I love it when you make it, but I would feel very uncomfortable asking somebody else to make a penis mug for you. But because salty sea dogs is so nice. Also, I guess some, our listener sent you a robot mug.

• 1:57:41Dax Shepard?

  What?

• 1:57:42Speaker 01

  Maybe I haven't received it yet. Spoiler.

• 1:57:45Dax Shepard?

  Oh God, I didn't know that.

• 1:57:47Speaker 01

  Because they sent gifts for the team.

• 1:57:51Dax Shepard?

  Oh my heavens.

• 1:57:53Speaker 01

  Wabi, come in here. You got a really, really good one.

• 1:57:58Dax Shepard?

  You're jealous of his.

• 1:57:59Speaker 01

  I am. I am.

• 1:58:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a Sasquatch.

• 1:58:05Dax Shepard?

  Oh, but it's a playful little boy Sasquatch.

• 1:58:09Speaker 01

  So cute.

• 1:58:11Dax Shepard?

  Oh my God, these are adorable.

• 1:58:13Speaker 01

  So cute.

• 1:58:14Dax Shepard?

  You get a little story about the person?

• 1:58:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can. It's a certification for the.

• 1:58:17Dax Shepard?

  These are like cabbage patch tops.

• 1:58:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. And they sent you that nice note.

• 1:58:23Dax Shepard?

  I love that we're all locked into our generation. He said Build a Bear. I said Cabbage Patch. What if, hold on before you pull it off, because I was being rascally about the whole mug thing and steal it and everything. And what if the mug they made me was a middle finger? That would be great. And it just had eyes on the middle finger.

• 1:58:41Speaker 01

  Let's be clear. Salty Sea Dogs is not upset. They are very grateful.

• 1:58:48Dax Shepard?

  Okay, good, good, good, good.

• 1:58:49Speaker 01

  Budenoki, if people are stealing from their establishment, I understand if they're upset. Please don't do that.

• 1:58:54Dax Shepard?

  Unless you're gonna leave $1,000.

• 1:58:55Speaker 01

  No, Dad.

• 1:58:56Dax Shepard?

  Don't do that. Okay. Is there a price they could leave?

• 1:58:58Speaker 01

  I really don't think so.

• 1:58:59Dax Shepard?

  $1 million, Monica.

• 1:59:02Speaker 01

  They are the reason that this, these mugs are a thing. And they brought them to America. They're Canadian. They brought these to America.

• 1:59:12Dax Shepard?

  Wait, the mugs or the restaurant?

• 1:59:14Speaker 01

  The mugs.

• 1:59:14Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:59:15Speaker 01

  Well, the guy is Canadian, so he knows these people. And he did a nice thing and he stocked his restaurant with these mugs and it turned into such a fucking.

• 1:59:25Dax Shepard?

  Feeding frenzy.

• 1:59:25Speaker 01

  Because now they're like, we don't have enough.

• 1:59:27Dax Shepard?

  Because people are stealing them.

• 1:59:29Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know if that they're stealing them or just.

• 1:59:30Dax Shepard?

  They're breaking.

• 1:59:31Speaker 01

  Well, no, they're very durable.

• 1:59:33Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:59:33Speaker 01

  But.

• 1:59:35Dax Shepard?

  Really quick, do you know what payola is?

• 1:59:37Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:59:38Dax Shepard?

  Rob, will you read the definition of payola? So in terrestrial radio.

• 1:59:43Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:59:44Dax Shepard?

  There would be DJs who would get in trouble for payola, which is they would start talking about products and they on the side were getting money. And it's against the law.

• 1:59:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's the practice of bribing someone to use their influence or position to promote a particular product or interest.

• 1:59:59Speaker 01

  Bribing.

• 1:59:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:00Speaker 01

  They were getting paid.

• 2:00:01Dax Shepard?

  They were getting paid.

• 2:00:02Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:00:02Dax Shepard?

  You're like straddling the line.

• 2:00:04Speaker 01

  No. How dare you?

• 2:00:07Dax Shepard?

  I just think you need to announce that you've received no money from anyone.

• 2:00:10Speaker 01

  Of course not.

• 2:00:11Dax Shepard?

  Right, just a couple thousand dollars in mugs.

• 2:00:13Speaker 01

  I. It's not, it's not a bribe though, because these are things I like.

• 2:00:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:00:19Speaker 01

  Talking about them.

• 2:00:20Dax Shepard?

  But you started talking about how durable they were and I was like, now it sounds a little bit like a pitch.

• 2:00:23Speaker 01

  They are durable. They're a great product. Everyone should buy them and I get a kickback.

• 2:00:30Dax Shepard?

  He uses URL code, I get 10%, but it's not payola.

• 2:00:35Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 2:00:42Dax Shepard?

  We are supported by Walden University. You know that feeling when you've been thinking about making a move, going after the degree, the promotion, the thing you keep telling yourself you'll get to someday? Walden University is built for that moment. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working professionals get the W, the knowledge, the skills and the confidence to create real change in their careers and communities. Their programs are designed around your life, not the other way around. With Tempo Learning, available in select programs, there are no rigid schedules or set weekly deadlines. You move at your own pace and Walden's faculty aren't. Academics, they're practitioners who bring real world experience into everything they teach.

• 2:01:25Dax Shepard?

  From your first class to career coaching and beyond, Walden is your partner the whole way. Take the first step and learn at a pace that works for you. Visit walden.edu. Walden University. Set a course for change. Certified to operate by CHEV.

• 2:01:49Speaker 01

  Now yours, I don't, you're not gonna love what's happened, I think. I think you are and you're also not. Because this is, let me read it to you. Hi Dax, we wanted to send you a mug as a huge thank you for the exposure on armchair. However, one of your amazing fans already sent you a robot. Instead, we sent you a mug for Kristin.

• 2:02:09Dax Shepard?

  Perfect.

• 2:02:10Speaker 01

  If you wish to give it to her. Oh, also, we wanted to mention that we pulled our audience to hear what their favorite armchair expert episode was. Ninety-five percent of your fans said day seven. It was a beautiful reminder that when we are open, honest and humble, we are able to make the biggest impact. We will carry that lesson with us forever and we thank you for that.

• 2:02:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now I'm super on board.

• 2:02:31Speaker 01

  Now?

• 2:02:32Dax Shepard?

  Well, yeah, now.

• 2:02:36Dax Shepard?

  Now I know where their spirit and heart is. Oh, it's a, it's a, it's a, um, three-toed sloth.

• 2:02:42Speaker 01

  What if you couldn't remember it? Like, what if it was a sea horse? It's a cute sloth.

• 2:02:47Dax Shepard?

  That's very cute.

• 2:02:50Speaker 01

  Give her her certificate of adoption.

• 2:02:52Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so Rob got one, you got one, Kristin got one.

• 2:02:55Speaker 01

  Where's your robot? You need to go find it.

• 2:02:57Speaker 05

  I'm asking Carly if she.

• 2:02:59Speaker 01

  I haven't even seen a robot on the website. I'm nervous you got like a special one.

• 2:03:05Dax Shepard?

  Nervous you got a special one?

• 2:03:08Speaker 01

  I mean, I got a special one too.

• 2:03:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:11Speaker 01

  Anyway, we love SAWC. We really do. Isn't that sweet?

• 2:03:14Dax Shepard?

  It is very sweet. I have updates.

• 2:03:17Speaker 01

  Great.

• 2:03:18Dax Shepard?

  So this is a rare case where I listened to the armchairs. I listened to you as well, but I also listened to the armchairs, which is, we, we talked a lot about my toe fungus. And people were, some people were almost a little panicked. Gotta go to the doctor. Melanoma, melanoma, melanoma. I remember the melanoma, I know someone. Right, so a lot of melanoma stuff. Okay, there's a lot funny here and this really kind of ding ding dings it as well. This is, this is tied in in a weird way.

• 2:03:44Speaker 01

  The sloth.

• 2:03:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so I go to my. Now he got really mad when I called him a GP. He's not, he's an internist.

• 2:03:52Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:03:52Dax Shepard?

  And I hadn't realized that that was so offensive, but I.

• 2:03:54Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:03:55Dax Shepard?

  But that's neither here nor there.

• 2:03:56Speaker 01

  Okay. Isn't like canceled, like the word is canceled?

• 2:03:59Dax Shepard?

  No, just he made a lot of analogies I'm not gonna repeat because then I'll offend some GPs.

• 2:04:03Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:04:03Dax Shepard?

  But, but just he, he's, I'm an internist. I pull the toe out. He looks at it and, um, and while he's looking at it, he goes, uh, okay. So

• 2:04:13Dax Shepard?

  you tell your wife, she's our shiksa.

• 2:04:17Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:04:18Dax Shepard?

  And he's an older male doctor.

• 2:04:20Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:04:21Dax Shepard?

  And so.

• 2:04:22Speaker 01

  So he looked at the toe and then he said that?

• 2:04:24Dax Shepard?

  Yep. I think he, I think probably he was waiting as long as he could wait before he brought it up. And then it just kind of came up. So he, he told me how much he loves Kristin as a shiksa, which is so funny. So then he goes, there's a guy across to the hall. There's a podiatrist across the hall and I'm pretty close with him. I'm gonna run over there and see if he's got a minute to look. He was like, I'd rather have him just look at it. Privilege, privilege, privilege. The guy's got 10 minutes. I'm with my mom too. I brought my mom with me and I brought her in the room with me, which was really fun. It made me feel like I was a little kid again.

• 2:04:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, you should have taken, you should have gone to the, um, pediatric.

• 2:04:58Dax Shepard?

  I should have. And then we should have gone to McDonald's and gotten an ice cream cone afterwards. Cause I was a good, strong boy who was not afraid of shots. And so I said to her when I was leaving, I said, Hey, you want to go to the doctor with me? Pretend that I'm eight again. And she goes, yeah, I'd love to. So we went to breakfast first and then we went to the doctor. So then we go across the hall and go to the podiatrist and he starts looking and he stops and he goes, I gotta tell you, that your wife is a.

• 2:05:22Speaker 01

  Stop.

• 2:05:23Dax Shepard?

  Back to back, within 10 minutes, both of them very older.

• 2:05:28Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 2:05:28Dax Shepard?

  Doctors. And I was like, this show is magic.

• 2:05:31Speaker 01

  Oh, it's huge.

• 2:05:32Dax Shepard?

  It's magic. How is this guy, and then I'm seeing young kids in New York? It's ve- I've not seen a show that's like.

• 2:05:39Speaker 01

  Hit everyone.

• 2:05:39Dax Shepard?

  The nets that wide. And dads, dads is the weird bullseye. Cause the aforementioned guest, Easter egg, whose kids called.

• 2:05:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:05:48Dax Shepard?

  He too, he had seen it and his kids had it. That's neither here nor there.

• 2:05:51Speaker 01

  Be honest.

• 2:05:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:52Speaker 01

  Were you a little like, can you just like, can you be a doctor for a second?

• 2:05:57Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 2:05:58Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:05:58Dax Shepard?

  No, no, no. I thought. He knows her and I got squeezed in and I'm only benefiting from the notion that this gentleman just loved my wife's show.

• 2:06:10Speaker 01

  But don't you think that like maybe it's like rose colored glasses like when he looks at the toe, he's just like, oh, it's perfect like her and it could be melanoma.

• 2:06:22Dax Shepard?

  What if he goes, what if he looked at my toe and he goes, I can't believe she's with you.

• 2:06:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:06:28Dax Shepard?

  She deserves so much better than this toe. That would be hysterical. No, you know what's funny and I'm going to credit my good friend Kevin Ziegers. Kevin Ziegers, if you don't know who he is, he's a great actor and he's a good friend of mine and I absolutely love him and he's got this incre- he's on a new Taylor Sheridan show and he's a fucking like Marlboro man cowboy. He looks incredible. Keep seeing pictures of him, he looks gorgeous.

• 2:06:49Speaker 01

  Okay. Shout out.

• 2:06:50Dax Shepard?

  He texted me like three weeks into the nobody wants this phenomenon and he said, I'm so grateful things are going good with your career right now because otherwise you'd be suicidal.

• 2:06:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:00Dax Shepard?

  And I was like, that's, you know, that's probably true. So to answer your question, I'm not above that feeling bad, but I feel very, my self-esteem is very good currently.

• 2:07:11Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 2:07:12Dax Shepard?

  And as we know, it's very fluid.

• 2:07:14Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:07:15Dax Shepard?

  And on another day I might feel bad, but I felt just fine about it and I am, I'm trying to live by what I keep telling the kids, which is, hey, we're a team. When one of us shines, the whole team shines. We go to a party and Delta's the big hit because she's dancing, that's the shepherds.

• 2:07:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 2:07:33Dax Shepard?

  Team shepherds won.

• 2:07:34Speaker 01

  Well, that's a beautiful way of looking. I think that's correct.

• 2:07:37Dax Shepard?

  And I feel that. I feel like, you know what, this thing, it's a team and if she's, everyone loves her, the team, that's great for the team.

• 2:07:44Speaker 01

  I know, it is great. I guess there are things, there are places.

• 2:07:49Dax Shepard?

  That you want your own attention.

• 2:07:51Speaker 01

  It's not about attention. I don't want you to know me or anyone in my life.

• 2:07:55Dax Shepard?

  Oh, like if I was in there for anal warts, again, no shame, people get anal warts, it's not their fault.

• 2:08:00Speaker 01

  Like my waxer.

• 2:08:03Dax Shepard?

  But if I was on all fours and my butt cheeks were spread and he's looking at this outgrowth.

• 2:08:07Speaker 01

  Your wife's my shick.

• 2:08:08Dax Shepard?

  Oh my God, I was watching a show, I spilled my popcorn, I was laughing so hard at whatever part.

• 2:08:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, I'd re- I wish you just didn't know me.

• 2:08:16Dax Shepard?

  That's fair. I wasn't too humiliated by this.

• 2:08:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:08:18Dax Shepard?

  So great distinction. Yeah. If I was in there for erectile dysfunction, again, no shade. It happens to tons of men.

• 2:08:23Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 2:08:24Dax Shepard?

  But these things that would be hard for me to go in and talk about.

• 2:08:27Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:08:28Dax Shepard?

  I might wanna be anonymous.

• 2:08:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay.

• 2:08:31Dax Shepard?

  He looked at the toe. He goes, not melanoma. Right away. Boom. Not melanoma.

• 2:08:36Speaker 01

  Your wife's too hot for that.

• 2:08:37Dax Shepard?

  And so here's.

• 2:08:38Speaker 01

  Could definitely not be melanoma.

• 2:08:39Dax Shepard?

  What's your wife doing right now? And I'll say this is a bit of a PSA. And this is not a, I'm not saying it can't happen another way, but what they did tell me was it, when it's melanoma, if you have melanoma under your toenail, you'll generally see it'll start kind of growing into your cuticle. Now, we've got a different thing. Like you'll be able to see some of the darkness in your cuticle, probably.

• 2:09:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:09:02Dax Shepard?

  Also, so then he got after that nail. He got a pair of little sharp pliers. And he just started going, no shot of numbing agent.

• 2:09:11Speaker 01

  Did you feel it?

• 2:09:12Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:09:12Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:09:13Dax Shepard?

  We're talking about the show and what's good about the show.

• 2:09:15Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Jesus Christ.

• 2:09:19Dax Shepard?

  Do you wanna see it?

• 2:09:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:09:20Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:09:21Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. This is so exciting. And also, this is Paola. This is like getting people to watch us on YouTube.

• 2:09:27Dax Shepard?

  I don't have any, um, you know, lint. Okay.

• 2:09:34Dax Shepard?

  Maybe I can hold it up to her camera for one second.

• 2:09:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, hold it to camera.

• 2:09:37Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Look, guys, it's not great, but I gotta tell you, that is an enormous improvement. No, here we go.

• 2:09:46Speaker 01

  Can you see it?

• 2:09:50Dax Shepard?

  Oh, he sounded just like a camera operator. Yep. Like he's in the sweet spot of it. Total sharp razor focus. Okay.

• 2:09:56Speaker 01

  Okay, let me look. Wow. Okay.

• 2:09:58Dax Shepard?

  Cause you've seen it in a lot of iterations now.

• 2:10:00Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 2:10:01Dax Shepard?

  You've seen the enormous, like, thick, oh, oh, oh, here's a brag. Do you know what the doctor had by his side? Like, the closest instrument he had? The toe doctor? A Dremel. Exactly what I've been using. Yeah. I felt very vindicated by that.

• 2:10:21Dax Shepard?

  Well, I don't know. There's not a lot of ways to use a drum. Well, go ahead. Well, did you see the photo?

• 2:10:29Speaker 01

  You should have seen the original.

• 2:10:31Dax Shepard?

  I'll show you the photo. Do you want to zoom in on that too? Hold on, let me get you a photo.

• 2:10:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it looks way better. It's not black anymore.

• 2:10:39Dax Shepard?

  Right, it was the black.

• 2:10:40Speaker 01

  There is some red, but that looks like blood.

• 2:10:42Dax Shepard?

  Okay, here you go, Rob. That's what it looked like.

• 2:10:46Dax Shepard?

  Big improvement, right? Are you dare we?

• 2:10:48Speaker 01

  No, are you gonna? Oh my god, wow.

• 2:10:53Dax Shepard?

  So that's where I was putting the safety, hot safety pin through. And then there's soot gathered in the holes as you see, but that, see all that darkness? That's what we were worried about. What an ugly toenail.

• 2:11:07Dax Shepard?

  But anyways, I skipped out of that appointment. I skipped.

• 2:11:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:11Dax Shepard?

  Because it's fine.

• 2:11:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:11:13Dax Shepard?

  Everything's fine.

• 2:11:14Speaker 01

  So there's nothing more for you to do?

• 2:11:15Dax Shepard?

  I don't think so. Oh, I'm gonna go see him in three months.

• 2:11:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:11:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:19Speaker 01

  Follow up.

• 2:11:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:20Speaker 01

  I hope the black doesn't come back.

• 2:11:22Dax Shepard?

  By the way, that's, this is nothing, but it's funny I just said three months because he said, "Okay, so do you want to come back in three months or do you, do you want to make an appointment?"

• 2:11:33Speaker 01

  Do you want to come back in three months or can we wait till season two is out?

• 2:11:39Dax Shepard?

  Should we? You want to coordinate it with the drop of season two? I said, yes. And he goes, which one? I go, "I want to call and schedule it in three months." Basically, I got this like, I got this commitment phobia right away. I was like, I don't, I can't, I don't know what it was. I was like, "I can't commit to coming back in three months right now." Again, you know, I already know my issue. But I'm like, but I'm committing to call, to schedule it in three months. He's like, "What? Just leave." Like, I don't, I don't know.

• 2:12:06Speaker 01

  Why is she with you? I just cannot understand.

• 2:12:10Dax Shepard?

  I'll go home and re-watch it and try to wrap my head around why you're...

• 2:12:13Speaker 01

  Wait a minute.

• 2:12:15Dax Shepard?

  Wait! No way, Carly!

• 2:12:19Speaker 01

  The robot is so cute!

• 2:12:24Speaker 04

  I like to drink hot coffee. It gives me a charge in my boots.

• 2:12:30Speaker 01

  Look how cute.

• 2:12:30Dax Shepard?

  Oh my goodness. That is adorable.

• 2:12:36Speaker 01

  He's not on the site.

• 2:12:38Dax Shepard?

  For me, I don't deserve it. My toe is disgusting.

• 2:12:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:12:41Dax Shepard?

  But thank you.

• 2:12:43Speaker 01

  Oh my God, that robot is adorable.

• 2:12:45Dax Shepard?

  Adorable. Okay, so there was, that's the toe update.

• 2:12:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:12:49Dax Shepard?

  And I'm sorry I scared cherries.

• 2:12:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:53Dax Shepard?

  Melanoma free. I went to New York last weekend and was a part of the New Yorker Festival.

• 2:13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, how cool.

• 2:13:02Dax Shepard?

  It was really cool. Not just my thing, but just even being in the green room. And then Tyler, and I'm afraid to say her last name and I'm embarrassed, but it's F O G G A T T. She is a senior editor at The New Yorker and she's under 30.

• 2:13:18Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:13:19Dax Shepard?

  And she is.

• 2:13:21Speaker 01

  Oh, my dad's calling.

• 2:13:22Dax Shepard?

  Oh, great.

• 2:13:26Dax Shepard?

  Cat eyes.

• 2:13:26Speaker 01

  Hi dad.

• 2:13:27Dax Shepard?

  Cat eyes.

• 2:13:29Speaker 04

  Hey Monica, what's going on?

• 2:13:30Speaker 01

  Um, we just have a quick question about.

• 2:13:34Dax Shepard?

  Cartoons from your childhood.

• 2:13:36Speaker 01

  Did you, did you watch cartoons? Did you have cartoons in India?

• 2:13:40Speaker 04

  Television cartoons?

• 2:13:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:43Speaker 04

  No.

• 2:13:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:13:44Speaker 04

  I grew up, we didn't even have a TV.

• 2:13:46Speaker 01

  That's what I, that's what I said. That's what I told Dax and he didn't believe me.

• 2:13:50Dax Shepard?

  So when's the first time you saw a cartoon?

• 2:13:53Speaker 04

  Probably, well, I'm British. I mean, I can't be sure, but I think only after coming to this country.

• 2:13:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 2:14:01Speaker 04

  There are many right now.

• 2:14:03Speaker 01

  Right, but not back then.

• 2:14:05Speaker 04

  Back then now.

• 2:14:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:07Speaker 04

  As I said, you know, I was in, past college when we moved to New Delhi is when I first have TV. And that was black and white.

• 2:14:15Dax Shepard?

  A joke, we're beating around the bush. Monica didn't know what a seahorse looked like and she's blaming her Indian heritage. And I think that's bullshit.

• 2:14:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, dad, do you know what a seahorse is?

• 2:14:27Speaker 06

  I don't.

• 2:14:27Speaker 01

  See, exactly.

• 2:14:30Dax Shepard?

  Wow, you won.

• 2:14:31Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:14:32Dax Shepard?

  You won.

• 2:14:32Speaker 01

  I knew it, because also I was saying.

• 2:14:34Dax Shepard?

  I don't.

• 2:14:35Speaker 01

  I was saying that.

• 2:14:36Dax Shepard?

  One of the smartest men in the world.

• 2:14:38Speaker 01

  Yes, because in India, don't you think, Dad, don't you think they put less of an emphasis on animals? Like, like pets than they do in America?

• 2:14:46Speaker 06

  When I grew up, that was the case.

• 2:14:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:48Speaker 06

  Not anymore.

• 2:14:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:14:50Speaker 06

  I mean, at least, you know, it's, it's really associated with, well, you know, people get,

• 2:14:56Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:14:57Speaker 06

  you know, or they have more money.

• 2:14:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:59Dax Shepard?

  Extra food to give you an animal.

• 2:15:00Speaker 06

  You have, you know.

• 2:15:02Speaker 01

  They have dogs and domesticated pets.

• 2:15:04Speaker 06

  You know, we had a dog when I grew up.

• 2:15:06Speaker 01

  Dad, you didn't really. You had a feral dog that ran around the house.

• 2:15:11Speaker 06

  Obviously, now that, you know, people have a lot of pets.

• 2:15:15Speaker 01

  I know, but then, I'm talking about my generation of parents like you guys. You guys didn't have animals, domesticated animals as much. I don't think, because I was saying with kids here, they're, they read storybooks like from early on and they're identifying animals. It's like part of the curriculum and I, that's not what you guys did.

• 2:15:38Speaker 06

  No.

• 2:15:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:15:40Speaker 06

  We did not do that.

• 2:15:41Speaker 01

  I'm glad to talk to you because I am right. It's very clear and.

• 2:15:46Dax Shepard?

  And rare.

• 2:15:47Speaker 01

  It's very common and it's just another one to add to the list. Anyway, sorry, we interrupted your meeting.

• 2:15:55Speaker 06

  That's okay. No, I got to the meeting.

• 2:15:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:15:58Speaker 06

  How's everything else? Everything else good?

• 2:16:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16:01Dax Shepard?

  Michelle, have you, have you watched Nobody Wants This?

• 2:16:04Speaker 06

  No, what is it? I think I've heard about it.

• 2:16:07Speaker 01

  It's Kristen's new show on Netflix. It's.

• 2:16:10Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm, yes, I've not watched it, no.

• 2:16:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, Dax thinks, well, it's been coming up that a lot of dads have secretly watched it. And so we're, we've been asking around. It's good. It's a, it's a good show.

• 2:16:24Speaker 06

  Yeah. Well, I will, man.

• 2:16:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:16:29Speaker 06

  It's already on Netflix, right?

• 2:16:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. It is.

• 2:16:35Speaker 01

  All right, Dad, we're gonna go. Oh, well, that's, okay, bye, love you.

• 2:16:40Dax Shepard?

  Bye.

• 2:16:40Speaker 06

  Love you too, bye.

• 2:16:41Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so I was talking about Tyler. She's so impressive. I ended up reading a bunch of her writing before I went and was, she interviewed me. And she was so smart and wonderful and impressive, and I had so much fun, and she made me cry a bunch of times, and it was really, really lovely. But fuck that, because now I'm remembering the very funniest thing that happened when we were in New York. And I have all the photographic and video evidence of this. Okay. So we went to Robert Downey's play on Friday night, McNeil, and Rafi, my friend Rafi's also in it. And we're sitting in the theater before the show starts, and behind us is, I don't know, four or five women, and they see Kristen.

• 2:17:23Dax Shepard?

  And so they start telling her that they loved her Netflix show. They don't say the title out loud. Now, there's three older women in front of us, and they just kind of detect someone's famous behind them, right? Because there's a hubbub.

• 2:17:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:40Dax Shepard?

  So now they're really curious. I'm watching the whole, I have the best vantage point for this entire thing. So I'm watching that, and then I watch the woman pull out her phone, and it's just directly in front of me. It's four feet away from me. And she, Monica and I filmed all this. It's so, I haven't been laughing so hard in so long. She wrote, her first search on Google was like, romantic movies.

• 2:18:04Dax Shepard?

  So she searched romantic movies. And of course, where's that gonna take her? That's Harry Met Sally Sleepless. And she's just, I'm watching her scroll, that's not it, that's not, and then she refines her search. And she writes, what's on Netflix? Now, all this stuff comes up, and she's, and now I'm like, I'm nudging Kristen, like, oh my God, look at this woman's trying just like the most carpet.

• 2:18:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:18:27Dax Shepard?

  Bomb search to try to figure out who you are. This is so funny. So she's scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. I've got probably nine minutes of her searching the entire internet. She starts whittling it down and then she realized this movie she that was her her cardinal sin is she was usually including movies.

• 2:18:44Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:18:45Dax Shepard?

  In her searches somehow by the minute nine, she gets to TV shows and I'm watching and I have the exact moment where she's scrolling and she sees, nobody wants this. And then she hits it really excitedly. And then she moves to her friend and I, I, I dolly right and I get it and I see her thing. And then her friend sees and now they're really excited. Then she pulls her phone. Now this is the knockout punch of all knockout punch. And she texts her friend. Oh my God, you're not going to believe it. We're sitting in front of Zach Shepard and Kristen Bell. We have the video. We're gonna post it. It's nothing could be funnier. Then the person she's texting writes back, it's Dak.

• 2:19:29Speaker 01

  D A K. Oh no, my God. Oh my.

• 2:19:34Dax Shepard?

  When we, when we saw the correction was no, it's Dak with a K. Holy cow, was I fucking laughing. So and we have the entire thing on video. Oh my God, was that funny? I could not get over that. Oh, no, it's Dak. I'm in front of Zach Shepard.

• 2:19:57Speaker 01

  Oh geez. What did she say that made you cry?

• 2:20:02Dax Shepard?

  Um, I think it, it started with, um, and this came up in yesterday's episode, you know, there's gonna be a few that they're gonna single out of episodes we've had. My mom being one of them. I end up having to explain how special my mom is to me. And how she's the foundation of why I'm curious and she's so empathetic and I mean, next level empathy where it's like even the bad guy deserves some compassion, even that kid who killed another kid in a drunk driving accident, what's happening with his family? That, that, that spirit of her. But of course, in trying to describe my mom out loud on a microphone, which I don't do

• 2:20:42Dax Shepard?

  often, I couldn't get through it. And then I'm trying to tell about the episode, which I can barely kind of get through. And then she's reading some stuff, some reactions to things that were, you know, I was just, I was a mess. The first third of it. I was still funny. I hope. I think people were laughing enough. But yeah, I got, I got pretty emotional. What I was thinking when I left was, I was like, A, that, of course, I just immediately get insecure like, God, that's so self indulgent to be like crying on a stage. You don't make time to sit down and go over your life. You would never like, sit there and then just reflect on your life. But then in an interview like that, it's kind of this, I mean, I don't know why I'm saying this is

• 2:21:26Dax Shepard?

  what we do for a living. Yeah. But you're forced to walk through your life a little bit.

• 2:21:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:32Dax Shepard?

  And I'm at the old age where that makes me emotional now.

• 2:21:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's very sweet.

• 2:21:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. It was really, really fun. And she, she's incredible. We should interview her at some point.

• 2:21:41Speaker 01

  Oh, I would love that.

• 2:21:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, she's a powerhouse.

• 2:21:44Speaker 01

  That's a ding ding ding to Jude, because we talked about crying a lot.

• 2:21:47Dax Shepard?

  We did talk, we did, we did talk about crying a lot.

• 2:21:50Speaker 01

  I really liked him.

• 2:21:51Dax Shepard?

  I really, really liked him too.

• 2:21:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was a very cool person. Okay, a few things. Had Cate Blanchett done Elizabeth by the time she did Talented Mr. Ripley? Yes.

• 2:22:04Dax Shepard?

  She did.

• 2:22:04Speaker 01

  Was Hard Eight P T Anderson's first film, his first feature? Yes. Drugs and alcohol are down with younger generations. That is true. Young adults in the U. S. Have become progressively less likely to use alcohol over the past two decades, but the percentages of 18 to 34 year olds saying they ever drink that they drink in the past week and that they sometimes drink more than they should all lower today.

• 2:22:30Dax Shepard?

  Well, those are the three categories.

• 2:22:31Speaker 01

  At the same time, drinking on all three metrics has trended up among older Americans, while holding fairly steady among middle aged adults. That's interesting.

• 2:22:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it would be too blanket of a single explanation of why older people drink more.

• 2:22:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:46Dax Shepard?

  But I do wonder, and I think a lot of people are like, I'll retire. It's gonna be great. Life's gonna be a blast, no work. And they get there and like, huh, it's a little boring. I don't really know what the fuck to do.

• 2:22:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:22:59Dax Shepard?

  Why doesn't this feel the way I was anticipating for the last 40 years of my labor? And then, what are you gonna do? Well, let's get drunk.

• 2:23:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. Also, in like, the rate of drinking in homes is very high. Cause also like, you're social with each other.

• 2:23:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

• 2:23:18Speaker 01

  So that's kinda interesting.

• 2:23:19Dax Shepard?

  Do you, I wonder if your hangovers, they must, it seems like they would get worse and worse and worse. Cause mine just got worse and worse. And as I hear from everyone, as they age, they get worse.

• 2:23:27Speaker 01

  They can sleep in a lot.

• 2:23:29Dax Shepard?

  But they don't, they just wake up at 3:30 in the morning. They're having lunch at 10 a.m.

• 2:23:34Speaker 01

  Oh, God. You talked about a group in Germany called the Deutschland something group, but I, which I couldn't find. But there is a really big group forming in Germany, a far-right group called AFD.

• 2:23:50Dax Shepard?

  What's that stand for?

• 2:23:51Speaker 01

  The Far Right Alternative for Germany. So Alternative for Deutschland, I guess. Is that the one?

• 2:23:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's the one.

• 2:23:57Speaker 01

  Oh, got it.

• 2:23:57Dax Shepard?

  Alternative Deutschland, yeah. Yeah, there's millions of people. It's a very concerning, it's a, a healthy chunk of people.

• 2:24:05Speaker 01

  So scary.

• 2:24:05Dax Shepard?

  Great frontline, people should check that out.

• 2:24:07Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:24:08Dax Shepard?

  Everyone should just watch more frontline in general, it's so good.

• 2:24:11Speaker 01

  Um, we did not talk about the substance, so we'll have to talk about it next time. Cause I saw it and we have stuff to discuss.

• 2:24:17Dax Shepard?

  We do, we do.

• 2:24:20Speaker 01

  People should try to see it.

• 2:24:21Dax Shepard?

  See it.

• 2:24:22Speaker 01

  Between now and next time.

• 2:24:23Dax Shepard?

  Which is dicey, cause we also told people to watch Chimp Crazy and then we were a little late on our explanation.

• 2:24:28Speaker 01

  Well, we also wanna give people time to see it.

• 2:24:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we gotta give people the time they need.

• 2:24:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, people need time.

• 2:24:35Speaker 01

  And that's it.

• 2:24:35Dax Shepard?

  All right, I love you.

• 2:24:36Speaker 01

  Love you.