How to Make Friends and Have Better Conversations

You all asked for advice, so here it is! Kirk, Maddy, and Jason open up the mailbag for a special Burning Questions all about life advice. They talk about how to make friends as adults, how to have better conversations, how to convince your children to cook with you and much more.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Kirk Hamilton?

  Here's some advice. If you're listening to a podcast and the first thing the host does is offer you some advice, that person is probably great at advice and you should listen to everything they say. Welcome to Triple Click, where we bring the advice to you. This week, we are giving listeners advice on all sorts of topics, from making friends as an adult, to becoming a better conversationalist, maintaining ties with your friends who've just become new parents, and getting your kids into cooking.

• 0:31Kirk Hamilton?

  I'm Kirk Hamilton.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  I'm Maddy Myers.

• 0:33Jason Schreier?

  And I'm Jason Schreier. Hello.

• 0:36Kirk Hamilton?

  Hey.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 0:38Jason Schreier?

  Hello there.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  What's this voice?

• 0:39Kirk Hamilton?

  That's a very somber greeting, Jason.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  I like this. I mean, it's good, but it's different.

• 0:44Kirk Hamilton?

  This is our, we're in our 60 Minutes phase where we-

• 0:46Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, I'm, this is NPR. Hello.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  Welcome. Well, I guess we are being kind of formal this week, given the topic.

• 0:54Jason Schreier?

  Yeah.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  I mean, we're really getting into it. We're really getting into our feels and seriousness.

• 0:59Kirk Hamilton?

  We are. And like NPR, we are also supported by listeners and-

• 1:05Jason Schreier?

  By the public.

• 1:06Kirk Hamilton?

  That could be you.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 1:07Kirk Hamilton?

  You could be, you could be one of the, one of the public, one of the members of the public who support the creation of Triple Click every week. If you go to maximumfun.org/join, sign up to become a member. You, you know, you'll be throwing us a bone. You'll be allowing us to keep this-

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Throwing us a bone.

• 1:23Kirk Hamilton?

  Big podcast-

• 1:25Speaker 01

  Throw us a bone!

• 1:26Kirk Hamilton?

  Ship afloat. Yeah. And, and also, of course, you'll be supporting Maximum Fun, a wonderful worker-owned podcast network. So yeah, if you do that, that, those are all the, the sort of altruistic reasons to do it. But also, you will get a lot of bonus content from us, and actually, from every Maximum Fun show, but mostly from us. We put out a monthly bonus episode and they're kind of about everything. We have a lot of spoiler casts for different games, movies, TV shows, just things that we like. And at the moment, we are nearing the conclusion of Triple Quest, a three-part D and D campaign, Dungeon Mastered by the great Matthew Mercer. It's been super fun. I'm in the process of finishing up-

• 2:10Kirk Hamilton?

  Three, which is gonna, man, there's a lot of, a lot of fun stuff going on there, doing a lot of music for it, a lot of sound effects. It's, it's been a lot of fun. So I'm excited for that to go out and for everyone to get to hear the grand finale. Of course, you do get those episodes in the main feed on a delay. But if you really want to hear the finale first, maximumfun.org/join, become a member, and you also get access to loads of other bonus stuff. All right, so that is enough of that. Jason, what are we doing this week?

• 2:39Jason Schreier?

  This week, we are doling out advice, burning advice is this week's topic. So

• 2:47Kirk Hamilton?

  Burning advice.

• 2:48Jason Schreier?

  A few weeks ago, we took a call for, for listeners to send in their, their greatest advice questions.

• 2:55Kirk Hamilton?

  We put out the call. They took the call. We put out.

• 2:58Jason Schreier?

  Sure. A few weeks ago, we put out a call for listeners to send.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  And they heated it. The call to advice.

• 3:04Jason Schreier?

  Questions, and we got a lot of them. We got a lot of good ones. A lot of people asked one that we're not going to get to, which is how do you choose what game to play, which we've kind of talked about in the past. We're not going to answer that one, but we are going to answer some other ones.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  We can't choose that. It's impossible to know.

• 3:17Jason Schreier?

  We're gonna put on our advice hats and, and try to help people out today as much as we can. And maybe we'll give them bad advice and steer them in the wrong direction. Who knows? All bets are off. We, we can't make any promises. We're not doctors here at Triple Click.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  We're not doctors. We're not, we're not therapists is something that I thought a lot as I was reading some of these questions was the fact that we're not therapists.

• 3:42Kirk Hamilton?

  We are just three people who live our lives as best as we can and will give advice from those three perspectives.

• 3:49Jason Schreier?

  Can I just tell you, Maddie, when I, I, so I interview people a lot for my job and a lot of people tell me their stories. And often at the end of it, they're like, you know, this is like going to therapy. So

• 3:58Speaker 01

  That happens to me too, a lot.

• 4:00Jason Schreier?

  Kind of feel like a therapist.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. And sometimes I do kind of feel that way, especially, but, but unlike a therapist, I don't feel like I give them advice at the end. I'm just like, well, thanks for telling me your life story and goodbye.

• 4:12Kirk Hamilton?

  Right. The key, the key difference being that when you tell your life story to your therapist, they don't then go like pull good quotes from it and publish it.

• 4:20Jason Schreier?

  Right.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  Ideally.

• 4:22Jason Schreier?

  I guess that is a little bit of the difference.

• 4:24Kirk Hamilton?

  I mean, maybe there are some experimental types of therapy that do do that.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Today, we are publicly doing it.

• 4:30Jason Schreier?

  Today, we will be publishing all of the advice and our recommendations. So let's get to it. We're going to do this like we do burning questions, where we each read one. I will kick us off. This is from Steven. Steven asks, how do you make friends as an adult?

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Easy one, just a real softball.

• 4:49Jason Schreier?

  Okay, well, my advice is going to be a little different than yours. My advice is to have children and then you will just be hit by a deluge of birthday parties and playground dates and school hangouts and you will meet other parents and make friends with them.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  What do you do if you don't like the other parents, though? I guess that's a separate advice question, but it's fine.

• 5:10Jason Schreier?

  Well, that's not a big deal. I mean, you just don't, you're just kind of casual to them. But then you will eventually, like eventually, hopefully you'll find a couple that you do really click with and then you hang out with them. Other advice includes joining, I don't know, clubs, churches, synagogues.

• 5:28Kirk Hamilton?

  Jason's advice is have kids and then, I don't know, join a club or something. We're off to a great start here.

• 5:34Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, I don't, I don't know. Well, you guys, you guys could talk about the childless experience.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  I do think the child reversion is significantly more difficult, no? I mean, I think it's, it's much harder, especially if you're like trying to limit it from work. Like if you're like, how do I make friends outside of just making friends from work, which is probably the main way that you socialize if you're listening? And I certainly have made friends that way. But honestly, it's having hobbies. It's not just joining a club, but having hobbies and then meeting people through having something else that you do outside of work, which could be anything. It doesn't have to be video games. It could be, you know, joining a choir or. Knitting and meeting people at the yarn store and hanging out with them.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Or recently, my mom got really into raising monarch butterflies and she made a friend doing that, which is really cool, by the way.

• 6:32Jason Schreier?

  That is a cool hobby.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  If you get really into that, it's actually like a cool hobby to get into. So there's all kinds of hobbies you can get into, make friends by doing that.

• 6:39Jason Schreier?

  Maddie, one time I, I took my kids to this nature center near me a few months ago during the summer and they have this butterfly exhibit. And what they do apparently is they freeze these butterflies and put them in envelopes and then mail them to this place. And so these people, these guides at the nature center like took out these envelopes and inside were frozen alive butterflies. And they like took them out and because of like the warmth of their hands, the butterflies like woke up and they had been in a coma essentially for like two weeks. And then they just kind of like staggered out and flew into this habitat. It was crazy. Butterflies are wild.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  That is a magical story that doesn't feel real.

• 7:16Jason Schreier?

  I swear to God, it was crazy. My kids were, my kids thought it was awesome.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  So this is an example, so if you think that's cool, that's something you could get into, you could start volunteering your local butterfly sanctuary.

• 7:26Jason Schreier?

  Yeah.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  And get into volunteering and meeting people that way.

• 7:30Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, I think like meeting people through an activity can be good because it's sort of, you know, filters for people that have something in common with you, you know? I actually have known plenty of people, this has happened to my sister too, who are parents who make friends with people through their kids and because you do wind up in these social situations and then at some point have the realization of like, wait a minute, do I like these people? Do we have something in common or have we just been thrown in together because our kids are friends? Because you're not, you know, it's, it's a, that's definitely a distinct way to meet people. And I've definitely found that it can be good, you know, to filter for a shared activity.

• 8:11Kirk Hamilton?

  We made some really good friends of ours in Portland because our dogs have the same name. Our dogs are both named Appa and it's a reference to the same TV show. And someone at the pet store, I think like met them and heard about, and like they learned their Dog's name and they're like, oh, there's another couple that I know who also named their dog Appa and wound up like connecting us and we just sort of met up with them to get a drink or something and they're really nice. And then, as it turns out, like if you name your dog for the same silly animated kids show, like you're probably gonna have other things in common as well. And so, you know, we are now friends with them. They're really great. I think my advice is rather than give more practical advice, like I think that's

• 8:55Kirk Hamilton?

  good advice, you know, have something in common, whether it's kids or a hobby or game night or whatever, a club that you're all a part of or volunteering. I think that my advice would be a little broader, which is you have to kind of try and you have to be open to the idea of actually having a friend and the idea that the person that you might want to be friends with also wants to be friends with you. And I think a lot of people run into sort of assuming that no one wants to hang out with them, where you kind of like start talking to someone who like, I don't know, maybe you met through a work thing or you had something in common, like you're at a, you're both at a cafe a lot at the same time and you wind up talking a little bit. And then you're like, ah, well, they probably wouldn't really want to be my friend. So you don't want to feel overly

• 9:39Kirk Hamilton?

  forward, you know, saying like, hey, you want to get a cup of coffee sometime? Like, maybe we could just hang out. And a lot of times, even if you try that, like you offer to get coffee with someone and they're like, yeah, we totally should. And then it kind of keeps not happening, like it keeps not working out. It's easy, I think, to then tell yourself like, okay, well, this is a soft no, like they don't really want to be friends. And that may be the case and you should like pay attention for that. But generally, like it just is sort of hard for adults to make the time to actually connect and like build a friendship. Like it's just way harder at in your 30s and your 40s than it is when you were in school or like when you were a kid. And so I think like, give it time and

• 10:20Kirk Hamilton?

  like allow for the possibility that yes, this person does want to be your friend, rather than just like giving up immediately or not even trying, which I think is something that stops a lot of people before they start.

• 10:32Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, and be willing to be the first one. It's funny, I used to like. I think a lot of people think this way that like you don't want to be always the one reaching out first and making plans with someone you want to wait for them to see like make sure they're interested to make sure like you said they want to be your friend too. But I think just kind of putting that inhibition aside and just being like, no, screw it. I'm just gonna reach out first to every person I meet. Otherwise, it won't happen. I think that can be a healthy way to look at things. Another piece of advice I'll give, I could give a bunch of these. I mean, other than like join clubs and have hobbies, like we've all said, I mean, I don't know, watch football with people, play poker with people, whatever else you want to do, play sports with people. Another piece of advice I'll give is like reconnect with people that you

• 11:14Jason Schreier?

  used to like and might live near you. I've, I've had some good experiences that way, just like reaching out to someone on Facebook or texting them or something and be like, hey, like it's been a long time. I saw you live like 15 minutes away from me now. You wanna, you wanna grab a coffee and, and catch up. That can be a good way to do it. And then you can see like if you still like them.

• 11:33Kirk Hamilton?

  Sometimes you'll do that and you'll wind up marrying that person.

• 11:36Jason Schreier?

  For instance. Yeah, well, that can be an added bonus. Unless you're already married. If you're already married, then hopefully that.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, then it could really make your life kind of stressful.

• 11:45Jason Schreier?

  Next question. Maddie, you want to read this one?

• 11:47Speaker 01

  Sure. This is from Ellie who writes, love the show, et cetera, et cetera. Great way to start. Perfect, Ellie.

• 11:53Kirk Hamilton?

  Et cetera, et cetera. We'll assume that those et ceteras mean, and Kirk is always right about everything. I agree with him. That's usually what et cetera means.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  My advice question. A close friend of mine, my main gaming buddy, recently became a father. Since then, I've barely heard from him. I'm not surprised, of course. I've heard babies demand attention, but I miss my friend. So I guess this is a two-part question. How can I best support my friend without adding to his pressures? And how can we game together in a way that works with his new life?

• 12:20Jason Schreier?

  Turns out having kids can both gain you friends and also lose you friends.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:25Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah. I think that's true. That's a real thing.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  So Jason, do you feel like it's nice when people reach out to you and try to game with you? Like, is this something that works for you? Does it stress you out? Like, especially because you kind of went from being like the fatherless game, childless gamer, not a fatherless gamer, childless gamer, to child having gamer who still sometimes games with friends.

• 12:48Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, very rarely. I think that gaming, multiplayer gaming, I think is not something that like is really amenable with having two small children. Unless you only do it at night after they're asleep, in which case like you're kind of sacrificing your time with your significant other. So that can be really tough. I think that that is something like I would never, I used to play a ton of Destiny and like our raid scheduling, I never, I always would have struggled with that post having a kid. Like I essentially stopped playing Destiny when I had a kid. So that's tough. I mean, you might just want to wait a little while until they get settled into their routine. Cause also the other part of this is that like having,

• 13:28Jason Schreier?

  being through the first six months to 12 months of having a kid is very different than once you get into a rhythm and they start getting older and sleeping through the night and you have your routines and patterns, then it can be a little bit easier to be like, oh, well, my wife is going to her bridge club meeting tonight. So I could play games with my friends tonight as opposed to you all hands on deck because the baby needs to be fed every two hours. So we need to do this. So, so one of, I mean, to answer Ellie's question, I think that like, as the baby gets older, I think your friend might be, might have more time to play games with you. It's just that like right now, literally you have to be up like randomly throughout the night. You have to be on call all

• 14:11Jason Schreier?

  the time and things do change. Things do get better. So like your friend who, who you game with might actually just come back to reality in six months or a year or so. You might just have to give them a little bit of time.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Hmm. That's a good, that's a good piece of advice in and of itself. I also think Ellie, you can just ask your friend exactly what you asked us and the way that I asked Jason too, which is just what do you need in this time? And also just saying to someone, hey, I miss you and I know you're going through it, but for what it's worth, like I miss you and I'm excited for a time when we can spend time together again, is like a nice thing to hear from a friend even in a, in a non needy and weird way. I'm sure you can square that circle, Ellie.

• 14:52Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, sure. Agreed. Yeah, I agree with all of that. And having had friends, I've basically been in Ellie's position. I've had friends who have had kids and then have sort of faded for a while and then come back. And once you do start being able to do things together, assuming that right when Ellie says recently that their friend recently became a father, like you're probably referring to in the next, like a few months ago, which then very much what Jason said.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  Right, they're in the thick of it.

• 15:18Kirk Hamilton?

  Those first few months or that first year is like pretty different. But once things maybe do settle down and you can start finding time, it's also just helpful to have a little bit more structure. At least the dads that I play games with and have game night with and play video games with, like it's definitely helpful for them to schedule a lot more. Like it's, there's, it's less easy, I think, to be like, all right, let's just hop on and play.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:39Kirk Hamilton?

  Like sometimes that works, but usually it's like, okay, it's Monday night and Monday night is game night. And then like, you know, maybe their spouse and them like can work out a way to like, you know, always have that time be available to them. And that kind of thing is helpful to you. So like being open to a little more structure can definitely be a good thing.

• 15:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think that's even good advice for making friends as an adult. Like I have sung the praises of my scheduled gamer night many times on this show. And it's because as an adult, things come up and you're going to forget to stay in contact with your friends if you don't make a date of it and just have a night where you're like, I'm going to spend time with my friends tonight. And I think that works whether your friends are child free or not. It's just a, you gotta make time. You gotta actually make the time or else those relationships aren't maintained. It's the same as any other kind of relationship.

• 16:26Kirk Hamilton?

  Social structure, why, it just becomes more important as you get older.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it really does.

• 16:31Jason Schreier?

  Kirk, you want to read this next one?

• 16:33Kirk Hamilton?

  Yes, this next question comes from Madison who writes, hi triple click. I have a question that may be suited for a burning advice episode.

• 16:40Jason Schreier?

  Sure is.

• 16:41Kirk Hamilton?

  Well, here you are, Madison, so it sure is. Madison writes, I've been at my job just over two years and I have run into a lot of issues with my boss. However, I also have some wonderful coworkers who have become great friends. I'm a young woman in a male dominated field and anytime a new opportunity comes up, I find myself hesitating to apply out of a fear that I will not find the same supportive and like-minded coworkers at a new job. As three people who have gone through various changes over the course of your careers, how do you overcome the fear of the unknown to pursue new opportunities? Do you have any decision-making strategies such as making a pro or con list? Thanks for everything you do. I'm a big fan of the show.

• 17:25Kirk Hamilton?

  Mm hmm. This is a good one. That's interesting.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Feel like we need to give Madison a real pep talk here.

• 17:31Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  I read this and I was like, Madison, please apply to these other opportunities because

• 17:36Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:36Speaker 01

  I, I mean, having a boss that you aren't getting on with, that's probably not going to change, to be honest. I mean, that's like the number one reason why people leave jobs. And you can maintain those great coworker friendships after you leave. In fact, it's

• 17:51Kirk Hamilton?

  Start a podcast.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Or you can just maintain those friendships regardless. Not everything needs to be a podcast, but it could be.

• 18:00Kirk Hamilton?

  No, you're just.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  It could be a game or night.

• 18:02Kirk Hamilton?

  Jason is just kidding about the podcast, but his point is that we maintained our friendship after we left.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I got it. But regardless, I, I really feel like I've had such wonderful experiences working at lots of different publications and I don't know what Madison's job is. So I can't speak to that, but I do work in a male dominated sector of journalism. And first of all, you can generally find out what the politics are of a workplace, even if it's not a journalistic outlet that has a front facing presence. You can just kind of talk to other people who work there and be like, what is it like there? Am I going to get along with people there? That's a great way to find out if you would or wouldn't like a place to work, just full stop. But also you probably will find other supportive and like minded people at the, at all these other places that you're thinking about. And you

• 18:51Speaker 01

  might even find other amazing people that you never would have met otherwise, and maybe even a boss who you really get along with. And so it's, I guess, because I, I'm not a fear of the unknown person. I, I'm having trouble with this pep talk. I'm just like, but what about the exciting aspects of the unknown? What about all of the wonderful things that you can't imagine how great they could be because you haven't tried them yet? I'm very, I'm clearly this person. I'm just like, but what about how great that job could be that you, you haven't tried yet because you're hesitating? Just like picture that side of it as opposed to the negatives. But I've never tried a pros and cons list, I don't think in my life. Have either of you ever actually done it? And has it worked for you? A way to kind of talk yourself into a tough decision.

• 19:36Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, so I have and have both. I guess the main time I did it was when I almost got, I got a job offer while I was at Kotaku.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  Right, yes.

• 19:46Kirk Hamilton?

  That was a really good job offer and then wound up like really considering it and I wound up actually not taking it. Partly because Kotaku countered. It was like in the midst of sort of turmoil and the, I think the like Univision acquisitions. They're really trying to retain talent and it wound up being like, oh, okay, cool. Like I sort of renegotiated my position. But I definitely took very seriously the opportunity. And I think that's my first advice to Madison is definitely apply for other jobs. And yeah, everything Maddy just said is true. Like if you don't like your boss and like are thinking about leaving. Yeah, then just do it, especially if you've like made friends with your coworkers. You can still stay friends after you've left. Like that can be a great way to have a lifelong friend is like we worked together at this one job and you know,

• 20:29Kirk Hamilton?

  five jobs later, we're still friends. Like that's, that happens all the time. Like you won't lose them. And even if you do go to a new job where you don't like make best friends with your coworkers, that's okay too. Like not every job has to be like that. It can just be a kind of okay job. So yeah, definitely apply because applying for other jobs is just like a good way to even just grow at the job that you're currently doing.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  So true.

• 20:52Kirk Hamilton?

  You know, having an outside offer, like you won't really know until someone makes you an offer. What you're worth, like, you know, what, what is even out there, like whether it's possible for you to apply to another job. And remember, this is just applying, which is the word Madison used. So I'm saying like, this isn't leaving necessarily. You're just applying for other jobs and you can get an offer and then kind of make the pro con list and think it through. And then decide that you don't actually want to take it. And that alone can be really empowering to like, have gotten a sense of what's out there and then made the decision that no, actually, you know, there are some problems with my job. I don't love my boss, but I do really like working here and this position is really good. The last piece of advice that I'll give for this kind of thing is that I think it's, it's a really,

• 21:36Kirk Hamilton?

  it's really good to take the opportunity to ask other people for advice. And in particular, people that you're kind of are acquainted with. Maybe you look up to them or they're like a role model in your field. They're someone you've maybe met once at a conference that you'd love to connect with a little bit more. This kind of situation where you're like, I don't know, what should I leave? Should I go? I have this possibility. That's actually a really great time to reach out to someone that you see as a kind of a mentor and ask for their advice because you'd actually be surprised how often people are really happy to hear from people like that. Like, sometimes I'll hear from people who are just like, hey, you know, I kind of know them. I've met them a couple of times and they're, and they're thinking about launching a podcast, for example, or like going into business for themselves. And they're like, hey, you know, I just wanted to pick your brain a little bit.

• 22:20Kirk Hamilton?

  And I really like that. Like, I kind of value the opportunity to just talk to someone for 30 minutes and tell them the ins and outs and, you know, have a kind of off the record chat. And so that's kind of my last thought to Madison is this can be a great way to connect with new people and to like get new, really valuable insights from people that you might not know all that well. And it all starts with applying, like it all starts with having the choice that you have to make. And then you get to get into the fun part, which is like figuring out what decision you want to make.

• 22:48Jason Schreier?

  One thing I'll add to all of that excellent advice and thoughts is that when I left Kotaku, I knew that, I mean, for, for reasons we've discussed in the past, and it was, leaving Kotaku is not a difficult choice. I knew that it was doomed and that we were all going to be out of there. But I was choosing between two, two job offers for my next thing. And one of them was a gaming site where the work would be very similar to Kotaku in a lot of ways. And the other one was Bloomberg. And ultimately I was kind of going back and forth. I wasn't sure. I was talking over with people. And ultimately I landed on Bloomberg for the fundamental reason that it was going to be so different that I would inevitably have to learn new things.

• 23:31Jason Schreier?

  And just like imagining myself a few years from then, I was like, wow, okay. I would, I feel like this one opportunity here would be kind of more of the same and like exercise, like exercising the same muscles versus flexing new muscles and developing new muscles and stuff like that. And that to me was kind of a good way to go. And I'm very glad I did that because just doing more of the same, I don't think would have been as. Interesting to me to continue my career that way. So I think that like as scary as change can be and as hard as it is to go out of your comfort zone professionally, it can be really worth it. And you'll just like learn things that you never thought you would learn before and work with people

• 24:11Jason Schreier?

  that you never thought you would work with before and stuff like that. So a worthwhile thing to do, I think, to jump off the cliff every once in a while.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. Definitely.

• 24:22Jason Schreier?

  Although I can't speak to you, I mean, Maddie, do you want to chime in real quick on the woman in a male dominated field thing? Because that seems like an important part of this, which is, which we haven't addressed, which is that Madison, it sounds like feels like she might not have the same support that she does at his current gig.

• 24:39Speaker 01

  I mean, this is part of why I sort of alluded to it, but I'll spell it out more clearly. Like when I say like, find out what a culture is like at another place. I think for this is really important, but also it's a situation where people will speak in coded language that you Madison will understand. Like when you ask people like, what is it really like there? You're going to be able to figure out what they mean, especially in this kind of situation. And also if they don't know what you're talking about, because you are only speaking to men, then that will also tell you something. And so I feel like this is one of those social situations where also like Kirk's advice about approaching a mentor could be really helpful too, because

• 25:21Speaker 01

  that person might have a lot of connections in your field and might be like, oh, you never want to work there. That place is terrible and total boys' club. But these other places that you might not think of are actually really cool. So that's another opportunity to just kind of do some networking. And again, like Kirk said before, you can keep all your friends from this job. Like we keep emphasizing that, but like those people aren't going to go anywhere. They're still going to be around. And if you work in a kind of small industry like we do, you might end up working with them again someday. And hey, that's a perk. Wouldn't it be nice if you went to another job and you were like, hey, this is actually a really great place to work and boss is way better over here than you can tell other people that information too. And that might be just a nice

• 26:04Speaker 01

  Thing that you Madison can do for your great coworkers that you like so much. So there's a lot of potential benefits on that specific score that I'm kind of seeing here for you. And just as somebody who's like worked at a variety of publications with all different kinds of bosses in this arena. It's part of why I'm so emphasizing like Madison, it actually could be way better. And you just don't know, you could have a boss who's actually really supportive of you and makes you feel great. And I want that for you.

• 26:32Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah.

• 26:33Jason Schreier?

  Uh, next question is from Nathan. Nathan says, you all seem to be such wonderful conversationalists. I just love listening to you talk.

• 26:41Kirk Hamilton?

  It's all editing Nathan.

• 26:43Jason Schreier?

  It's all because of Kirk.

• 26:44Kirk Hamilton?

  It's all in posts.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Terrible at it.

• 26:47Jason Schreier?

  I wondered if you had any advice or techniques on how to improve at the art of conversation. I'm pretty socially awkward and I don't often know what questions to ask people or how to respond to their questions in a way they'll find interesting. Any wisdom you can share would be super appreciated.

• 27:03Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah. Oh, I think we can, I think we can offer some advice for this. So let's think how to be a good conversationalist. First of all, I think we've given this advice before, but ask people questions and ask people about themselves. I think like thinking of conversations too much as like, I need to have something to contribute. I need a good joke. I need good stories. I need an interesting job I can tell people about is like putting a lot on yourself. But really a big part of being a good conversationalist is asking people, you know, just how they're doing and then just listening. And then the key is to ask follow up questions, which these are like journalistic skills. I think that's actually the context in which this has come up before, that I am a terrible interviewer because I really like to talk.

• 27:46Kirk Hamilton?

  And so I'll, I've, I know I've told this before, but I'll just tell it again, where I'll be transcribing, you know, an interview that I'm doing. And my interview subject will be saying something really interesting. And then I'll like interject and add my own fucking inane observation about what they just said. And when I'm transcribing, I'm like, shut up, like, let this interesting person talk, God. So I'm always working on this and I'm sure being a podcast host doesn't always help because. You do a fair amount of listening, but also talking. But in conversation, it is very important to listen. And then I think most people don't get follow up questions.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 28:24Kirk Hamilton?

  It's like not something that I find, I notice it when I'm talking to someone. Like if they ask me a question, it's very rare that I'll give them an answer and then they'll say, "Oh, so, you know, this," and kind of elaborate, like ask me to elaborate on something that I said. But really, like, that's a really important thing for conversations, not just for making people comfortable, but for actually getting to the interesting part of whatever they were gonna say. Like, if you ask someone how their job went and they're like, "Well, it's going okay, I'm this and this and this." And you realize like, "Oh, okay, there's a part of that that seems interesting that I don't know that much about." And you ask about it, like, they'll really value that because people like to talk about what they do, because it's kind of fun and because it's so unusual to get asked about it.

• 29:06Kirk Hamilton?

  And then also, you'll, you'll find yourself kind of being able to relax. Nathan mentions being a little socially awkward. Once you get another person talking, it's actually a little easier to just kind of listen to them and like just go off whatever they're saying. And then eventually, maybe you will think of something that's, you know, you have to contribute to that or, you know, to talk about, and you'll kind of like relax into a conversation that way. So that's, that's one starter tip, I guess.

• 29:29Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, and the other thing is that like, if you're not just talking about each other and you're talking about other things, try to find a commonality there. And you can ask a bunch of different kinds of questions about like, what they like, what they're into, what they do for fun. I mean, here in suburbia with children, with parents of children, we have a lot of just kind of easy go to small talk conversation points. "Oh, where's your kid in school?" "Oh, where did, where did you live before you moved to the suburbs?" "Oh, oh, I lived on, in Yorkville too." "Oh, you lived on 84th and 1st?" "Oh, me too." So it, you can wind up finding points of commonality and working that way. Or, "Oh, hey, like, you're wearing a Jets hat." "Oh, are you a fan of the Jets?" "Oh, they just fired their general manager." "Oh, my God, same old Jets, terrible team, once again."

• 30:14Jason Schreier?

  "Can't believe we're going through this, can't believe we do this to ourselves." So I think that like-

• 30:19Speaker 01

  The rest of the podcast is just Jason listing off small talk about the Jets for the next like three hours.

• 30:23Jason Schreier?

  I mean, look, this is my life.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  And then you get into like trades the Jets could be making. And here's how you can get into that.

• 30:34Jason Schreier?

  I can't believe we relied on Aaron Rodgers. He's so washed. What a moron.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  And you're off to the races. And then that's just, it's a great party.

• 30:41Jason Schreier?

  Then you're off to the races, unlike the Jets running back.

• 30:45Kirk Hamilton?

  Then you're standing alone in the, in the kitchen monologuing and everyone's left and you didn't even realize because you're having so much fun.

• 30:52Jason Schreier?

  I assume, I mean, sometimes, every, every once in a while, I'll find someone who's into games and then we can just talk for hours about games and I'll tell them what I do and they'll be like, what? You do that for a living? And I'll be like, yeah, it's pretty weird. But anyway, like, I think that like, yes, you can, the go to, the easy go to and what you should do first is like, ask someone about themselves and try to get them talking about themselves. But like, at some point, you want to find common ground and then you can start getting into it. Another thing that I would recommend, and this is easier said than done, is to, is to value brevity, just like you would in writing an email to TripleClick, which is, just keep, keep your, try to keep things short, try not to ramble too much, especially look at their face for cues. If they feel like, if you feel like their attention is wandering a little bit, you might've

• 31:37Jason Schreier?

  lost them. And you can kind of freak yourself out a little bit that way. So try to be careful about this. But still, like, if you notice that they're kind of looking, looking for other people, maybe try to keep your sentences shorter, maybe try to then switch to a question like right then and there and try to get them talking, rather than just talking at them. Because talking at people, that's really, that's the number one way people kind of lose each other in conversations is when one is talking at the other.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah. I mean, I feel like that was, it's so obvious to just ask people questions, but I felt like this was such a life hack when I was in college and I felt really awkward at parties and was like, I don't know how to talk to people. And then I was also reading all these journalism books at the time and that just, I ended up figuring out socially, like, oh, these are just all the right ways to get people to talk to you and I can just use this at parties. And now my wife makes fun of me when I do it. And she's like, don't let her reporter brain take over because people will just start sharing like increasingly personal piece of information with me and like a public setting. Because it, the other hack for this is that if you just ask people questions, they'll be very excited to answer.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  Most of the time. So you can get people that you don't know at all to tell you far more information than maybe they even realize. So like, it can also be kind of dangerous where you're like, now I'm in like a personal conversation about this person's like mother in law or like whatever problems they're having at home. And like, how did we get here? But like, it is a true life hack where it's like, if you just keep asking somebody questions, they will love it. They will be so excited. Great for dates, too. It's like my number one, like dating advice thing is like, just ask the other person questions. They're gonna be so.

• 33:14Kirk Hamilton?

  And it does kind of like, and the two things, like what you were saying, Jason, and then what Maddie and I are saying about questions, like those, they synergize. Because if you get someone talking, pretty soon you will, they'll probably say something where you're like, oh, cool. Like you're into this or into that. Oh, you're doing a renovation? No, I just did a renovation. Like, let's talk about rebar.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 33:32Kirk Hamilton?

  And like whatever phase you are in your life, you might, you might find something to talk about. Oh, you have like a shoulder problem? So do I. I'm going to PT, let's talk about it. It depends. These are all like middle aged guy things.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  Late thirty something issues that might be coming up.

• 33:45Kirk Hamilton?

  Let's talk about our kids and our houses and our aches and pains.

• 33:48Jason Schreier?

  Uh huh, uh huh, uh huh.

• 33:49Kirk Hamilton?

  And our dogs, I suppose.

• 33:51Jason Schreier?

  So when was your last colonoscopy?

• 33:53Kirk Hamilton?

  Right, right. Oh, man, I'm gonna do one next year. I hear it's crazy. So yeah, and um, one other thing I'll mention about being a good conversationalist. And this is a little bit more of an advanced tip, but it's something that I try to do when I'm at parties, which is often you're not in a one on one conversation.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:08Kirk Hamilton?

  You'll be talking to someone, getting them going, you'll kind of be talking and someone else will come up. Or maybe their spouse will be there and you're talking to them and like, finding a way to fold other people into a conversation.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:20Kirk Hamilton?

  Can feel a little more difficult. Obviously, you're just trying to get comfortable, but it can be a really good feeling and can lead to a more relaxed environment. If you're able to see someone is there and like they haven't said anything, to just like really like directly be like, hey, you know, Mary hasn't said anything, but I'm curious if you, you know, have any experience with this. Like, just like throw it to someone who's standing there. And like often they'll be like, oh no, I don't know. But then even letting them in in that way can open up the conversation.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  But then it'll turn out that they do have something to say. Yeah, yeah.

• 34:51Kirk Hamilton?

  And that can be really.

• 34:53Jason Schreier?

  Also, also an excellent way to remember someone's name if you forgot it is to be like, oh, have you met so and so?

• 35:00Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh, yes. Yes, very helpful, very helpful trick.

• 35:04Jason Schreier?

  Yeah.

• 35:04Kirk Hamilton?

  I wish I was better at names, man. I'm so bad at them. Emily's amazing at it.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  I am amazing at it.

• 35:09Kirk Hamilton?

  She does all the tricks.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:11Kirk Hamilton?

  You know, the like name memory and memorization tricks.

• 35:14Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, just say their name after you meet them. Just be like, oh, hey, great to meet you, Dave. And that'll help.

• 35:19Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, I work on it.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  I'm good at it. It's a useless skill.

• 35:24Kirk Hamilton?

  But that is a very helpful thing to have on call when you're in that kind of a setting to just be like, bam, your name.

• 35:30Jason Schreier?

  Something I really want to try that I've seen at least one person do is just like carry around a notebook and like write down like things that someone told you and just so you remember, just so you have this notebook full of like information about people so you remember it because it's very easy to forget. And talk about reporter brain.

• 35:48Kirk Hamilton?

  So this will be something, don't you think that like, once we're all wearing our like AI powered AR glasses? That like they'll just tell, they'll just like summarize every single conversation you've had at the party afterward?

• 36:00Speaker 01

  It'll come up. It'll be like, this is Mary. She did a renovation and you talked with her about it six months ago.

• 36:05Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, but that'll be miserable because like, okay, but right now it's like super impressive if someone remembers some like obscure thing you told them about your job like 10 weeks ago, but like with the AI headset, it won't be as impressive anymore. So then it'll just be useless.

• 36:20Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, I feel like a lot of things that previously seemed impressive will just be run of the mill because of, because AI makes it so easy.

• 36:27Jason Schreier?

  All right.

• 36:27Kirk Hamilton?

  That's where we're going.

• 36:30Jason Schreier?

  All right, Maddie, take the next question, please.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  All right, this one's from Valerie who writes, I am a woman who's often the only one in a voice channel full of dudes. I'm also bad at the games we play together as friends like Final Fantasy, 14 Raids, Deep Rock Galactic, and any Battle Royales. I love and trust my friends, and yet I feel like I'm single-handedly setting gamer girls back by years with every loss. Maddie, have you ever felt this way? If so, how do you handle this? I'll say right off the bat, yes, I have. And then I'll get to her next question, which is Kirk and Jason. Do you think this is actually a gender? Or are you also afraid of being judged by your gamer friends who again, I usually trust. So again, Valerie, I definitely, I definitely feel this pressure and I actually feel it regardless

• 37:14Speaker 01

  of who I'm playing with, even if it's all women, I'll still be like, I am the worst out of everyone on the call right now. And I'm really feeling it. And, and sometimes I'll tell jokes about it or I'll just be like really upfront and I'll keep it to the point and just be like, look, I don't, I don't think I'm, I'm very good at this, but I'm having a great time, just so everybody knows. And you know, if, if you want advice, Valerie, you can say that you'd like it. And if you don't want it, then you can also be like, don't tell me what I'm doing wrong. I'm well aware. Like, I feel like that's the other piece of the social situation. That's like, I, I either do or don't want advice. But also if they like you, then that's really why you're all playing together. And so you shouldn't

• 37:56Speaker 01

  really worry so much. But Kirk and Jason, I, I assume everyone goes through this from time to time in life where you're like, I'm the worst one here. Is everyone noticing this? Is everyone noticing that I'm bad?

• 38:06Jason Schreier?

  Sure. Yeah. Although I kind of, I, I don't, I cannot relate to the feeling of single-handedly feeling the lead of your gender as you play. And that sucks to have to deal with on top of the pressure of like, because you're like, oh God, now they're not going to play with a girl again. Yeah, that kind of sucks. Um, yeah, I, I don't, I, man, it's tough because some of these games, like there's some games you can play together and they're very low stress, like low pressure, because it doesn't matter how good someone is. And then there are other games where it does, and you really are kind of hurting the group when you're sucking at it, like raids or like, competitive shooter games, battle royals, et cetera, et cetera. Um, I guess my advice, if

• 38:50Jason Schreier?

  you're really feeling self-conscious about this, would be to suggest playing like more casual games. If you're all playing Mario Party together, it doesn't really matter if someone sucks. Like, there are other games that are kind of either lower skill thresholds, or like it, skill doesn't matter quite as much for whatever. The stakes aren't quite as high. Um, even something like Splatoon or like a Mario Kart type game, like those games. Feel like even though they can be competitive, the stress and the pressure is so much lower. I feel like, but yeah, it's tough because it's like, I've also been in the situation where there is someone who's really holding back the raid and it really sucks. And like, you kind of, you're, you're just kind of leave being like, man, I don't want to play with

• 39:31Jason Schreier?

  that person again, because they really held us back here. So I do think that it's like even, and I don't want to say this to make Valerie like, be like, oh my God, I never want to play these games again, but it is, it is a real thing.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  I'm guessing they don't feel that way. Yeah, but it is a real thing. I mean, since, since she's like, we're still playing together. I'm guessing they don't feel that way about her, but.

• 39:52Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, I think they're like, okay, yeah, I think that's a really good point. I think if you're like really sending everybody back and they're actually upset about it, like, I think you might find your invites kind of drying up.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I think you'd know.

• 40:04Jason Schreier?

  Find that they are playing without you. So like, if, if they are continuing to play with you, then like, chances are you're fine. Or like, they don't care. Like, so don't worry too much if you're still regularly getting together with them. And if it does, if it comes up, or if you really continue to feel that stress, then maybe just suggest like, uh, uh, other kinds of games.

• 40:24Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, other kinds of games or other kinds of activities. Valerie mentions Deep Rock Galactic, which is kind of similar to Helldivers 2.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 40:31Kirk Hamilton?

  And in Helldivers at least, like, I'm not great at that game and definitely my skill was eclipsed by the guys that I was playing with. They were just like way higher level and had been playing a whole ton more and like knew exactly what to do. And they liked playing on really high difficulties. And I did find, it was kind of more fun for me to just go at a lower difficulty and play in a kind of more casual way where we're like trying a hundred percent the map rather than being like, let's put it on the hardest difficulties so we get the most XP.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:59Kirk Hamilton?

  And then that just made it easier for me. So it could be that, like, I didn't suggest that at the time. I just kind of found that was more fun. But I think Valerie, maybe you could suggest, like, if you're playing Deep Rock, be like, hey, you know, could we like play on this setting or like play this game mode? Like something that's a little bit less intense than the hardest, most intense one, which same for a game like Destiny or FF14 where like, there is a raid, which is then very demanding and complicated, but you could also just. Do stuff that's a little bit more low key if you have more fun doing it. And I think you're totally in your rights, especially if you love and trust your friends. Like you say, to just say that, like, be like, you know, I feel like I'm letting you guys down. So can we not do this hardest thing? Like, let's do something a little bit more low key.

• 41:39Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, and also it might be in your head. Maybe you're not actually.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 41:42Jason Schreier?

  So definitely talk to them about it and be like, look, do you guys feel like?

• 41:45Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, that's true. And they could just be like, right, we totally don't care. It's fine.

• 41:48Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, they could be totally fine with it. Yeah. And if you're succeeding and stuff, like if you're finishing these Final Fantasy 14 raids, then it's definitely fine. Like, it's only, I think what I was talking about earlier was more to the point of like, we are not actually getting this done. We've spent five hours on this because this one person is only as back. Which, I mean, even that is like, that can, that only, that has only happened to me in my life with like Destiny raids. And even then, like, usually because we were trying to do them blindly. And so like, that was a very specific threshold.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  I don't, I can't speak to Final Fantasy 14, but I'm sure they're hard too.

• 42:20Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, but even then, like, when, when people knew the mechanics, it was much, much easier. And even the low skill players could just kind of get through them pretty easily.

• 42:28Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, I definitely got carried through some of those raids. Once I just hadn't taken the time to learn the mechanics and be playing with guys who did it like every week, multiple times. They would be like, just stand here.

• 42:38Jason Schreier?

  Exactly.

• 42:39Kirk Hamilton?

  Shoot whatever you can, you're fine, man. And most of those raids are designed so that maybe everybody has to do something, but it's not like everyone has to be like super pro gamer, like elite mode. Like, you can kind of have a couple of people getting carried.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  And sometimes there's like different roles. Like, when I was in a Destiny raid group, I would be like, okay, I've like tried this role in this raid and I'm just really bad at it. But I think I'd be good at that other one. Like, I see this other role here that actually I think I'd be pretty good at. So what if we swap? And then I think the raid's gonna go better.

• 43:11Kirk Hamilton?

  What if I took the standing in the corner and not doing very much role? And you did the thing where you have to run through a cold gauntlet of enemies?

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's exactly what happened. And Kirk is presenting it exactly how it went. And it turned out it went way better and we won the raid because of that.

• 43:25Kirk Hamilton?

  I've done that many times myself.

• 43:26Jason Schreier?

  Um, all right, let's do one final question real quick. Kirk, if you want to read this.

• 43:32Kirk Hamilton?

  This comes from Colleen, who writes, "I was listening to the Triple Cook episode and Maddie talked about how she has been making her waffle recipe with her family since she was little. I also liked to bake when I was little and my mom says it's how I learned fractions. Now I'm a mom of two kids, age three and four. Both my husband and I are cooks. Any advice on how to get the kids interested in cooking or baking? They sometimes help, but they lose interest quickly. It's not surprising, given their ages. Maddie, how did your family include you and at what age? Jason, any tips that worked in your house? Kirk, when did you get into cooking?" My only strategy at this point is to let them help when they want, for as long as they want, and prepare for a mess. So Maddie, maybe you first, since your waffles started this whole thing.

• 44:16Speaker 01

  Sure. So I don't remember, so that means probably at age three or four, because it's so far back that I don't remember when my parents first started letting me cook. But we definitely made a lot of waffles and pancakes, and that's like a pretty child safe despite there being fire involved. But like if a parent is there helping, especially pancakes, like the kid getting to pour the pancake and then kind of watching for the bubbles, that was big. And then my dad would be like, "Oh, when is it time to flip it?" And then if you burn a pancake, it's no big deal. Like, that's definitely something where you can kind of try it, and also you can flip the pancaking correctly, and that's funny and fun, classic kid activity. Also, I remember my parents got me a little tiny apron really early on in life, and it was like a nice, like, professional-looking

• 45:01Speaker 01

  apron that was just like my mom's, and that made me feel really important and like I was like part of everything. And, you know, there's always an extra rolling pin. Like, there's like ways to kind of make your kid feel included. And I don't know how early this started, but my mom always genuinely made it seem like I was truly helping her, even in situations where I'm sure I wasn't. She would be like, "Oh, you know, thanks so much for like doing this additional thing," or like kind of putting me in charge of a task that didn't really matter that much. And then I always felt like I had true ownership of what was happening. And then it just became second nature over time. And I was like making my own pancakes and waffles as I was getting older, and then my parents didn't have to help with anything anymore. And I was making other stuff by that point. But those are like really easy things for kids to make.

• 45:45Kirk Hamilton?

  Jason?

• 45:46Speaker 01

  Jason, you've got kids. Go ahead.

• 45:49Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, I have some tips. So first of all, definitely just like let them do if they're if they show interest, let them do it and let them kind of grow bored and do something else. Um, three and four are super young, but my five year old. So a couple of things that have worked for us. One is um, planning things in advance and talking about them often and early. So like, for example, I've been talking to my daughter for like at least a week now about Thanksgiving, and she's getting very excited to help me cook on Thanksgiving, just because I keep talking about it. And I keep saying like, oh, what are you excited to make? Oh, do you want to work on the pie with me? Oh, are you excited to cut the turkey, etc., etc.? And then two is to come up with clever activities. So something that she got really, really into is we got this Bluey

• 46:30Jason Schreier?

  Cookbook at the library that has all these recipes. And she had this idea. She was like, I want to do a restaurant where we pretend that we're a restaurant and uh, her brother and her mother would just be the guests. And so they would like go out somewhere for a couple hours and she and I would cook and they would come back and we would serve them a meal. And she was like, she was talking about that for months. She was so excited about it. And she got really into it. And it was more difficult to cook with a five year old who you have to kind of assign activities to and like, keep an eye on. But um, I picked pretty simple recipes and we got a couple of them from that Bluey Cookbook. And so it worked out pretty well. Um, and we had a plan in place. And so she got really, really into that.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  That's so cute.

• 47:12Jason Schreier?

  But yes, I mean, uh, Colleen's strategy of letting them help when they want for as long as they want to prepare for a mess, that is all 100% true. And uh, I just think if you want to keep them on board, you can kind of go about it, but with a with some planning and talking about it and getting them really excited for it, especially the four year old. Three might be a little too young still, but the four year old, you can be like, plan out a menu with them and make it a whole special occasion and be like, this is what we're gonna do on Saturday. And there are a lot of kind of fun ways you can play around with that strategy.

• 47:42Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, my younger niece is really in into baking, like she's a good baker and has really gotten into it. She's 11 now. And just over the last couple of years. So she'll like make, just go make a chocolate cake. Like she, like, you know, she'll have to get permission because I think she would just eat the whole chocolate cake. Um, but she'll just go bake stuff.

• 48:00Jason Schreier?

  Like a dog.

• 48:02Kirk Hamilton?

  She is capable of doing it. She would probably give the dog some chocolate cake, too. But I think the only thing I would add.

• 48:08Speaker 01

  Dangerous.

• 48:09Kirk Hamilton?

  I think that my nieces have enjoyed is they will watch like MasterChef Junior and The Great British Bake Off. Like, they watch those kinds of fun cooking, baking shows together, and especially the ones that feature kids.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:22Kirk Hamilton?

  I think are a big hit with the whole family and with the kids in particular. And like, watching kids make often amazing things like on MasterChef Junior.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, that show is incredible.

• 48:32Kirk Hamilton?

  I think a really cool way for the kids to connect and be like, oh, like, I could just go do that in our kitchen. So that seems like maybe something you might want to try.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a great recommendation. That's your rules.

• 48:41Jason Schreier?

  God, have you guys, have we talked about the show Kid Nation? That's a, you should have.

• 48:45Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh, yes, many times.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  We have.

• 48:47Jason Schreier?

  Children watch if they really want to get inspired.

• 48:49Kirk Hamilton?

  We'll probably have to do a, like, bonus episode about it at some point because it comes up so often.

• 48:54Jason Schreier?

  Oh, man, one day. All right, let's take a break. Thank you to everybody who's sent in advice questions. Maybe we'll do another one of these someday. So just a reminder, you can always reach us at triple like at MaximumFun.org. In the meantime, let's take a break and then we'll be back for one more thing.

• 49:16Speaker 03

  Somewhere in an alternate universe where Hollywood is smarter.

• 49:22Speaker 04

  And the Emmy nominees for outstanding comedy series are Jetpackula, Airport Marriott, Ruffle, Dear America, We've Seen You Naked, and Allah in the Family.

• 49:38Speaker 03

  In our stupid universe, you can't see any of these shows, but you can listen to them on Dead Pilot Society, the podcast that brings you hilarious comedy pilots that the networks and streamers bought but never made. Journey to the alternate television universe of Dead Pilot Society on MaximumFun.org.

• 50:02Speaker 05

  Oh, darling, why won't you accept my love?

• 50:05Speaker 06

  My dear, even though you are a duke, I could never love you. You, you borrowed a book from me and never returned it.

• 50:16Speaker 05

  Save yourself from this terrible fate by listening to Reading Glasses.

• 50:20Speaker 06

  We'll help you get those borrowed books back and solve all your other reader problems.

• 50:25Speaker 05

  Reading Glasses, every Thursday on Maximum Fun.

• 50:29Jason Schreier?

  And we are back. It's time for unos mas things.

• 50:35Jason Schreier?

  Kirk, why don't you start us off?

• 50:37Kirk Hamilton?

  All right, I'll start us off. This is a game I am playing at the advice of friend of the show Russ Frustick, who I think will probably be talking about it on the besties this week too. So this is gonna be a week for people who listen to both of our podcasts to hear about this game. But it's really good and I do, I do really endorse it. I've loved it so far. It's a game called Echo Point Nova. This is out on Steam. It's a PC game. And it is the subgenre of first person shooters that is known as a movement shooter. So it's a first person shooter where the whole appeal of the game is how you move through it. I am pretty sure there's a demo for this game. And so you can just go try it out if you

• 51:17Kirk Hamilton?

  want to. So this is a game where you're like a kind of anonymous like mercenary or something in this kind of beautiful looking world of floating islands. And it's an open world game, actually. Like the, it's a whole big floating archipelago with a ton of islands that a lot of them have different biomes. There's all kinds of secrets and surprises hidden among the islands. But you start out and you're like, okay, it looks a little like, it's very simple, like geometry, very clean. There's kind of like drum and bass, like this really nice ambient drum and bass playing. And it just has a kind of like chill wave kind of a feel. And you're moving around and you get a gun and you're shooting it. And then you get a hoverboard. That's like the first major upgrade that you get. And

• 52:02Kirk Hamilton?

  in this game, instead of running when you hit shift, or I guess click the stick or whatever, when you press the run button, you just hop on your hoverboard immediately. And you begin moving at like 5,000 miles an hour. So you're already really fast. Like you move like Doom guy when you're just running. And then you pop out the hoverboard and suddenly you're just flying through the air. You have a double jump. You have a grappling hook that you get really early. And like the, the speed and flexibility with which you move is totally wild. So I've been playing with a mouse and keyboard. It's really good for that. But I was actually playing multiplayer with Russ a little earlier today. He plays on Steam Deck and says it's great on Steam Deck and that there's like a lock on with aiming that makes it totally work with a controller, because you're doing a lot of

• 52:46Kirk Hamilton?

  like aerial acrobatics while like shooting guys. And so apparently the controller controls are really good as well. So there's almost no story. There really just kind of isn't a story. Like you'll see these little dialogue bubbles pop up at various points from like different people that I guess are supposed to be talking to you on your radio. But really, you're just exploring the world and doing whatever objective is in the corner. And I would kind of compare this game to Titanfall 2. It has that same kind of a feeling. You'll get to a new area and it's usually some kind of cool, complex, like jungle gym, you know, with a bunch of obstacles and walls and barriers and stuff. And then you press a button and you start an encounter and like a bunch of dudes show up.

• 53:28Kirk Hamilton?

  And they're like guys, all different kinds of dudes. So like armored guys and people in mechs later, like big robots. Some of there's like huge enemies that show up sometimes, guys with shields, like little fast moving guys. And they're all just kind of attacking you and you just have to kill a certain number of them to clear the area. But the arena is like this huge open space. You move so fast through it. So it's also kind of like Tony Hawk Pro Skater. It's like first person Tony Hawk meets Titanfall. It's the most fun movement and these encounters, like these fights are so thrilling and great. I like watched the trailer and was a little skeptical. Like I watched some gameplay on Steam. The key art on Steam, I think is actually like, it looks really generic. The name Echo Point Nova.

• 54:11Kirk Hamilton?

  Like it's all a little bit generic, but man, when I started playing it, it's got a killer vibe. The music is really cool. The energy is great and just like the feel of playing it, like the movement, the speed is amazing. Like it's like a really exhilarating, like I'm really bowled over by it. It's just absolutely fantastic. So anyone out there who likes these kinds of games, you know, I talked about I Am Your Beast a little while ago. You know, this whole lineage of these like fast moving, really, um, really sort of intense and demanding shooters. But that also like give you lots of tools to do cool shit. If you like that kind of game, you will almost definitely like this game and it's certainly worth checking out the demo. It's made by a Greylock Studio, which I think it's kind of, it's like headed by a guy named Matt Larrabee,

• 54:56Kirk Hamilton?

  who I think is like the designer and maybe like the primary developer. Their previous game was a game called Severed Steel that I think is also fairly beloved. And somewhat and pretty similar to this, though I think it's like in more enclosed spaces and you're not flying around quite as much. But really, oh, there's a little crackdown. There's like little orbs that you have to get. So you're like climbing to hard to reach places. Man, it's so good. It's such a wonderful surprise. I really, I really wasn't, I just had no idea it had come out. I hadn't really heard anything about it. And then, yeah.

• 55:24Jason Schreier?

  Remind everyone the name.

• 55:26Kirk Hamilton?

  It is called Echo Point Nova. It is on Steam and it is terrific.

• 55:30Jason Schreier?

  Cool.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  Real video game name there.

• 55:33Jason Schreier?

  Yeah. Everything about it sounds very video game, like capital V, capital G.

• 55:37Kirk Hamilton?

  It's a good one of those.

• 55:38Jason Schreier?

  Maddie, what's your one more thing?

• 55:40Speaker 01

  My one more thing is Scream two and three. We've had a couple, a couple of movie nights in a row here watching Scream movies in our, in our household. And we're just continuing along. There's so many of these. I, I don't know how many we're going to get through, but we had a really great time with two and three. I had only ever seen Scream one, and then I had my wife watch it for the first time and I had never seen two and three. So these were brand new to me, had an amazing time, really liked both of them. They're really goofy. They're very silly. And they're not serious films, but I enjoyed the heck out of both of them. And I do recommend both of them. And to just say kind of like a couple of quick things about them.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  If you've never seen Scream one, still just like an unabashed recommendation as like a fun mystery, goes places you wouldn't expect. Good commentary on horror films. You can watch it and stop there, I would say. Two and three are much more commentary on Scream one, and then also on movies as like a secondary layer on top of that. And like within the world of Scream, starting with Scream two, there's a franchise called Stab that all the characters are referring to. Like a movie series that's like based on the real life murders that took place in Scream one. Sort of unrealistic that it would happen in the way that it does, but this takes place in a surrealist world where things are wacky. And that, that part I found very entertaining and I liked not knowing who the killers were and trying to guess and failing.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  And just one more thing I'll say about this. So Courtney Cox is in these movies. She plays Gail Weathers, real stereotypical female reporter who does whatever it takes to get her scoop. Wildly unethical character.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  Just absurd character. Like, I feel like this this character type, I love and hate it, where it's like this, the hot female reporter who like is just completely unethical in every particular way. And it's just like, why is this in every movie? I feel like now that I've pointed it out, people will know what I'm talking about. But anyway, I love and hate Gale Weathers. But I will also say, Courtney Cox apparently designed her hair pieces across each of these movies. And like, thank goodness, because I was like, I hope no costume designer made her wear any of the absurd wigs that this woman is wearing. Like, Scream Free, she has these baby bangs that are just like deeply upsetting. And I was like, did they make Courtney cut her hair that way? No, it is a hairpiece. So I was really fascinated by that. And just like Courtney Cox being like,

• 58:01Speaker 01

  no, I'm gonna like, design specific terrible hair for this character to have. And that really like endeared me to to her as like a performer and also kind of made me understand the character more is like, just this, you love to hate her. It's Gale Weathers. So yeah, we're continuing the Screamiverse and really digging it.

• 58:20Kirk Hamilton?

  Is Three the one where they're making the movie and they're like on movie sets and stuff?

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Yes, and it's very fun.

• 58:25Kirk Hamilton?

  Is that the one where there's like, where there's like a killer in the soundproof room?

• 58:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:29Kirk Hamilton?

  And like, the person can't hear that that rules. I love that kill.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's great. And they're like beating on the glass. There's also that one where there's that long rack of the Ghostface costumes. And like, somebody's hiding behind the huge rack of costumes. And of course, like, one of them is the real Ghostface and his like footsteps down from the rack. It's like perfectly framed. It's, it's a great shot. There's just a lot of moments like that where you're like, this is great. Movies. You gotta love movies.

• 58:54Kirk Hamilton?

  They have fun with those movies.

• 58:56Kirk Hamilton?

  Nice.

• 58:56Jason Schreier?

  All right. My one more thing is a video game called Dragon Quest III HD 2D Remake. And this is

• 59:03Kirk Hamilton?

  As promised.

• 59:04Jason Schreier?

  Yep.

• 59:04Kirk Hamilton?

  As promised.

• 59:05Jason Schreier?

  As promised last week.

• 59:06Speaker 01

  Finally.

• 59:07Jason Schreier?

  Not to be confused with Dragon Age The Veilguard. What do you think is a worse name? Dragon Age The Veilguard or Dragon Quest III HD 2D Remake?

• 59:15Speaker 01

  I don't know. They're both pity.

• 59:17Jason Schreier?

  Those are both the full titles.

• 59:18Kirk Hamilton?

  Hard to say.

• 59:20Jason Schreier?

  So this is, so Dragon Quest III came out in 1988, and it's gotten a few kind of remakes. And re remasters since then, but this is the most elaborate. So this takes so HD 2D in the title that refers to this graphical style that Square Enix really kind of innovated with Octopath Traveler, where you have kind of the the pixelated 2D characters. They might not necessarily be 2D, but they have a 2D look and they're standing on these three dimensional backgrounds, which gives them this really interesting aesthetic effect. And it's gotten prettier and pretty over the years. Octopath Traveler 2 especially is gorgeous. And this takes Yeah, this this game also looks incredible. And so it takes the original game and most of the gameplay

• 1:00:05Jason Schreier?

  and mechanics and world design is still intact. There there are some changes, a lot of quality of life changes, like in the original NES game, you had pretty limited items and now you do not and stuff like that. But fundamentally, have either of you guys played a Dragon Quest game before? Yeah, they're they're very

• 1:00:26Jason Schreier?

  The quintessential turn based JRPG games. They're a lot about resource management. Some of them have pretty elaborate stories. This one doesn't really have a story. The characters are just kind of choose your own adventure, like create your own characters. They don't talk or have personalities or anything. But it has a really interesting kind of resource management element to it where you really have to plot things out and figure out when you're going to use your character's spells to get through a dungeon because resources are pretty limited as you get through each dungeon. It also has a pretty cool chop system and it has a lot going for it if you're into kind of turn based systems heavy JRPGs, which Maddy, this game would drive you crazy because it's like it's

• 1:01:08Jason Schreier?

  full of invisible random encounters everywhere. It's got everything that you would It's yeah, it's got it's got its own kind of rhythm. Although Kirk, I mean, the more recent ones, Dragon Quest 11 had encounters on the map rather than invisible.

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  That's at least more bearable to me, I would say.

• 1:01:25Jason Schreier?

  This one is much more old school. But the one thing that I will say that I wanted to talk about specifically is that when you get you get you the the game starts out pretty linear and You kind of do a bunch of quests and then at a certain point you get a ship. And then you have are set into the open world and you can take your ship in any direction and go wherever you want. And it's really, it was revolutionary at the time and still feels a little bit revolutionary because the game doesn't give you guidance. And so in this remake, they add quest markers, objective markers, and I would actually recommend turning them off. Because it's really fun at this point in the game. If you're into this game, again, so you have to get into, you have to look past the invisible random encounters. But if you're into the game, it's actually really fun to go around and sail around and find all these towns on your map and go into them.

• 1:02:09Jason Schreier?

  And talk to all the NPCs there and sometimes they'll give you hints, some of which are very straightforward, some of which are obscure. About what you should be doing and how you can go around and complete your objective, which is to get all these. These orbs that are hidden in various places and it's actually really cool and you kind of you. You have to keep a mental checklist of where you're supposed to be and what items you need to get. And it's got a little Metroidvania to it and that you have to get specific types of keys that unlock certain doors and. Only you can only make progression once you've gotten that key in here or this item that unlocks this thing. It's pretty cool. It's a, it's a cool system and it's a lot more fun with, as I mentioned before, the objective markers turned off.

• 1:02:48Jason Schreier?

  Because you actually have to listen to what the NPCs are telling you and follow their, uh, the directions or listen to the clues they're giving you. And that part is really cool and um. Uh, I think was revolutionary in 1988. I mean, no game had done anything like this. Um, and this was the game, uh, I think the first two Dragon Quest games were popular in Japan, but this one really set like. Took like took it turned it into a cultural phenomenon. This is the game where like hundreds of people were reportedly arrested in Japan for skipping school to go and play it. To the point where in Japan, they had to issue like Square Enix had to make a special arrangement to. Or Enix at the time had to make a special arrangement to release games on Saturdays rather than Thursdays.

• 1:03:32Jason Schreier?

  In the Dragon Quest series because Dragon Quest would just shut down all of Japan when it would come out. Dragon Quest's popularity in Japan is like, is, is crazy. It's unheard of. It's like Call of Duty here or something like that. Probably even worse. But anyway, this game is really cool. It's a really well done remake. It's not going to convert any like JRPG naysayers or like people who don't like like the encounter rate. It's it's pretty tough. It's one of those games. You pretty much have to play it while you're like watching TV or something like that, which is too bad because the music is cool, but um but like the those sitting through those invisible encounters can be rough unless you're like really feeling the rhythm of it.

• 1:04:10Kirk Hamilton?

  Are there any like console commands or fast forward or anything?

• 1:04:13Jason Schreier?

  No.

• 1:04:13Kirk Hamilton?

  Wow.

• 1:04:14Jason Schreier?

  So this is the thing.

• 1:04:14Kirk Hamilton?

  That's too bad.

• 1:04:16Jason Schreier?

  You can set battle speed to like ultra fast, which makes it pretty speedy, but like you can't. So in um in like a bunch of other Square Enix JRPGs, I forget which ones have this exact mechanic, but like in a bunch of them, you can turn off random encounters, a bunch of the kind of old school JRPG styles. And especially like the um the newer versions of some of the Final Fantasy games, you can turn off random encounters with like these built in cheat codes and stuff like that. And that is always a big advantage um of those games and not being able to turn them off. And this is a little bit unfortunate, although we would also kind of defeat the purpose of the game if you could turn off random encounters because it's not like a story game. It's a game that is very much about battling and building up a group of characters and finding class permutations.

• 1:05:02Jason Schreier?

  You can actually, there's this interesting job system where like each character has a job. And then when once they hit level 20, you can take them to this place and have them switch jobs. But they don't stay at level 20. They actually go all the way back to level one. But their stat, they keep all the spells they've learned and their stats like are cut in half rather than starting from the beginning. So you can like min max the system to build really, really powerful characters by like switching job classes, keeping their old spells. And then like like you you build up a mage to level 20 and then you turn them into a warrior and suddenly have this built up tank who can cast spells. So there's a cool, there's some cool systems in place, but it's very much a game for people who are into systems rather than into stories. So um uh uh very much for a specific type of person.

• 1:05:46Jason Schreier?

  But if you're into Dragon Quest, this is a great remake and just as a remake, it performs well. It looks great. It's it's got all the trappings that you would want from a game like this.

• 1:05:55Kirk Hamilton?

  Nice.

• 1:05:56Jason Schreier?

  All right. That is it for this week's episode. Hope everybody enjoyed our advice. But once again, we are not lawyers, so do not-

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  We're not lawyers, we're not there for this. We don't know anything at all.

• 1:06:08Jason Schreier?

  We don't know anything.

• 1:06:09Speaker 01

  We don't know anything.

• 1:06:10Jason Schreier?

  So don't listen to us.

• 1:06:11Kirk Hamilton?

  If you enjoy the advice of three idiots who play video games, hopefully our advice is helpful.

• 1:06:17Jason Schreier?

  Three idiots who play video games.

• 1:06:19Speaker 01

  We tried.

• 1:06:20Jason Schreier?

  The new name for our podcast.

• 1:06:22Kirk Hamilton?

  That's gonna be the new podcast summary.

• 1:06:24Jason Schreier?

  Triple Click, and three idiots who play video games. All right, Kirk, Maddy, see you both next week.

• 1:06:30Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, see you both next week.

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  Bye.

• 1:06:35Kirk Hamilton?

  Triple Click is produced by Jason Schreier, Maddy Myers, and me, Kirk Hamilton. I edit and mix the show and also wrote our theme music. Our show art is by Tom DJ. Some of the games and products we talked about on this episode may have been sent to us for free for review consideration. You can find a link to our ethics policy in the show notes. Triple Click is a proud member of the Maximum Fun Podcast Network, and if you like our show, we hope you'll consider supporting us by becoming a member at maximumfun.org/join. Find us on Twitter at TripleClickPod, send email to [email protected], and find a link to our Discord in the show notes. Thanks for listening. See you next time.

• 1:07:33Speaker 06

  Maximum Fun, a worker-owned network- Of artist-owned shows- Supported- Directly- By you.