Mark Cuban on the AI Bubble: Who Actually Gets Wiped Out?

(0:00) Bubble talk: Comparing today's AI market to the dot-com bubble (7:50) AI's real-world limits: why enterprise AI is harder than expected (16:38) Transitioning to an AI-First Workspace (21:26) Health & AI: self-directed healthcare and biometric data (24:30) Politics, wealth tax, and AI as a truth-seeking force (35:12) Knicks & Sports Talk Thanks to our partners for making this possible! AppLovin Ads — AppLovin's AI advertising platform reaches over a billion daily active users across mobile games. Full-screen video ads with a 35-second median watch time. Advertisers are profitably spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a day and advertiser access is still in closed beta. The window is open at https://applovin.com/ALLIN Starting a business? Northwest Registered Agent gives you everything you need to build a complete Business Identity including free tools and built-in privacy. Get more at https://www.northwestregisteredagent.com/ALLINFREE Follow Mark: https://x.com/mcuban Follow the besties: https://x.com/chamath https://x.com/Jason https://x.com/DavidSacks https://x.com/friedberg Follow on X: https://x.com/theallinpod Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theallinpod Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@allin Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/allinpod Intro Music Credit: https://rb.gy/tppkzl https://x.com/yung_spielburg Intro Video Credit: https://x.com/TheZachEffect

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jason Calacanis?

  You and I lived through a couple of bubbles. We've seen this movie before. Um, and, and this wave seems very different than dot com wave. So let's talk about that. Are you concerned about a bubble? We're seeing bubbly like behavior people.

• 0:13Mark Cuban?

  It's not, it's not the traditional dot com bubble, right? Because back then there were companies going public, getting crazy valuations and people are buying them. And the stock would go up, you know, 50%, 100% with companies that had no revenue, no traffic, no nothing. And you'd go get a cab back then and people would be talking about them. Yeah. And you don't, you don't see that at all today. So it's not a bubble that's going to impact most people in the room, right? Or most people um across the US. But it could just destroy a lot of VCs and a lot of funds and a lot of PE, right? Because they're going all in.

• 0:50Jason Calacanis?

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• 1:25Mark Cuban?

  It used to be that product managers or brokerages had to outperform their numbers, right? For, you know, the SPX or whatever, but now you got to outperform to keep the money coming in. You got to outperform the, the fun next door. And they're all in Anthropic and getting their outcomes at SpaceX and celebrating. But if shit hits the fan.

• 1:45Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 1:47Jason Calacanis?

  It really is like, I've only done venture for just over 10 years and it is wild to watch. So many people who deployed at the wrong time, just out of business. They just invested at the peak. And entry price matters. And you and I have been in a bunch of deals together and we used to get to investing companies at 5 million, 10 million as angel investors. And then all of a sudden the request was 40, 50, 60 and the product's not launched and you're like, how does this work?

• 2:13Mark Cuban?

  Yeah. And, you know, and what's happening now is the market leaders, Google, et cetera, Meta, they're borrowing hundreds of million, billions of dollars.

• 2:21Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, that's interesting.

• 2:22Mark Cuban?

  And there's already a private credit problem right now, right? So you, you, you just layer on private credit, like um Al Capital getting all the um refunds. And then you, you know, you have these huge companies that have cash flow, but there's, you know, they're, they're spending all their cap, cap, um cash flow on CapEx. And then they're borrowing on top of that.

• 2:43Jason Calacanis?

  50 year bonds.

• 2:44Mark Cuban?

  Right. That's planning for perfection. And that's going to be hard. And we're building these data centers. And, you know, if there's a price performance curve on AI that minimizes the power requirements. There's going to be a lot of data centers that are going to be turned into pickleball courts.

• 2:59Jason Calacanis?

  Interesting. Cause they just can't get the power turned on.

• 3:01Mark Cuban?

  No, and then just the power, it's just, everybody thinks that, okay, there's going to be so much more utilization. And there will be, right? It'll just scale like everybody expects. But there's going to be breakthroughs and technological breakthroughs as well. Just like we saw fiber back in the day. It was all about putting in fiber. Then it went from one gigabyte fiber to 10 to 100 gigabyte. And then there wasn't a fiber problem anymore. There wasn't a bandwidth problem anymore.

• 3:23Jason Calacanis?

  Quite the opposite. We had dark fiber that people bought for pennies on the dollar.

• 3:28Mark Cuban?

  And just sitting there, right? And how is it not going to be the case that we don't get the same price performance improvements? On the AI side and on the data center side.

• 3:37Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 3:37Mark Cuban?

  And then with all the hate going against the data centers, I think that could be, you know, protecting them. And I mean, spending, committing tens of billions of dollars for 10, 20 years going out.

• 3:50Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 3:51Mark Cuban?

  I mean, nobody can predict that well.

• 3:55Jason Calacanis?

  I mean, you're, you, you used the word pricing to perfection, I think, earlier in the conversation. And that's really what's happening. I mean, you have to have a thesis that. We're going to put a hundred, you know, OpenAI, uh, $100 billion to work. And that's going to come back, not just in revenue, but it has to come back in earnings.

• 4:14Mark Cuban?

  A margin dollars. Yeah.

• 4:15Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, it has to be profitable.

• 4:16Mark Cuban?

  Yes. And you just don't know. And I'll tell you the other in terms, the corollary for um. Bubbles, right? In this particular bubble, because it's so driven by private capital. There should be a lot more companies going public, not at the SpaceX level for, not OpenAI, not Anthropic. But the $100 million um IPO.

• 4:37Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 4:37Mark Cuban?

  Because if AI does what AI knows, we all, we, we all know what it'll do in terms of disruption.

• 4:44Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 4:44Mark Cuban?

  Then you want to have um some sort of um currency that allows you to buy all those companies. Like you guys were talking about buying different legal companies.

• 4:55Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 4:55Mark Cuban?

  Right? Well, if you don't have that currency, the stock is currency.

• 4:59Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 5:00Mark Cuban?

  You're going to have to go out and raise money to do it. And if anything happens, and that money is not cheap. That money is really, really expensive. Versus if you go out and you do a $100 million IPO or a $50 million IPO. And you can do a secondary or whatever, as many times as you need if you're performing. But the minute that company that you're competing with that is a legacy business can't keep up. Or there's some other um company that has domain expertise that you need or data that you need, like you guys were talking about.

• 5:27Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 5:27Mark Cuban?

  You want to be in a position to buy them.

• 5:29Jason Calacanis?

  Yes, that is incredible.

• 5:30Mark Cuban?

  We're thinking, yeah, no one is forward thinking like that at all. And I'm like trying to tell my um. My portfolio companies, go public, mother, go public.

• 5:40Jason Calacanis?

  Yes.

• 5:40Mark Cuban?

  They just don't think that's the right thing to do.

• 5:41Jason Calacanis?

  Well, and M and A is, you know, not to make this political, but you know. When you're an entrepreneur, you have to play the game on the field. M and A was off the table. Lina Khan had a certain perspective, which was, we have to be like pre-cogs in minority report. We have to predict who's going to be a monopoly in the future and stop them now. It's like, okay.

• 6:03Mark Cuban?

  Consideration with, to compete with China and everything else that's going on globally. Yeah.

• 6:06Jason Calacanis?

  Right. Four years of no acquisitions. I mean, the. People I talked to who were in corporate development were like, we, we've been told to stand down.

• 6:14Mark Cuban?

  Yeah.

• 6:14Jason Calacanis?

  Because it's not worth the breakup fees.

• 6:17Mark Cuban?

  But even so, right? It's, you know, with mergers and acquisitions that that's still fine. But if AI does what we know it will do, the companies that are disruptive don't have to be enormous companies.

• 6:28Jason Calacanis?

  No.

• 6:28Mark Cuban?

  You don't want to have to always raise cash to go out there and do that.

• 6:32Jason Calacanis?

  Good insight like.

• 6:33Mark Cuban?

  Right. Cause like back in the day, back with broadcast.com, we bought like five companies just for stock.

• 6:39Jason Calacanis?

  And then there was always the bigger fish to come along.

• 6:41Mark Cuban?

  Which we're happy to, you know.

• 6:43Jason Calacanis?

  Yahoo. Yeah. Yeah, the famous caller. Uh, if you were. A Claude employee, if you're at Anthropic or at OpenAI, is it uh time to start thinking about the collar? Try to think about, yeah.

• 6:55Mark Cuban?

  Yeah. You know, I collared my stock because how rich do I need to be?

• 6:58Jason Calacanis?

  Right.

• 6:59Mark Cuban?

  You know, and if you, if you're able to change your life, if I work for any SpaceX, any of them, whatever. I'd be like, you know, somebody put together a collar for me.

• 7:10Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 7:10Mark Cuban?

  You know, because I just need to be protected, save part for my upside, but just cover my downside.

• 7:15Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. And when you did it, you had to. Like um actually orchestrate that, right? It didn't exist as a product.

• 7:22Mark Cuban?

  No, it didn't. So I had to actually create an index of internet stocks. I had Goldman Sachs create an index of internet stocks that I thought sucked. And then I shorted that index because we, and we had to follow all the laws. And I just had to have that short in place until I was able to do a real collar in the market on my Yahoo stock.

• 7:40Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 7:40Mark Cuban?

  And I lost tens of millions of dollars on that short.

• 7:44Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 7:44Mark Cuban?

  But I made up for it.

• 7:46Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. I mean, one of the great trades of all time. Uh, what do you think that the, this wave of capabilities in AI? I'm sure you play with it because you've always been a tinkerer.

• 7:59Mark Cuban?

  Yeah.

• 7:59Jason Calacanis?

  So maybe what are you tinkering with and what do you think? Um, is going to be the most world changing, you know, in the next five, 10 years for entrepreneurs, for society? Where do you look at it and go, hey, this is truly meaningful?

• 8:15Mark Cuban?

  Yeah. Okay. So AI is a lot harder to implement than anybody expected.

• 8:19Jason Calacanis?

  For sure.

• 8:20Mark Cuban?

  Right? You know, you can do an agent pretty straightforward, right?

• 8:23Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 8:23Mark Cuban?

  You can prompt away, you know, we cheated on tests, we, you know, cheated at work, you know, did projects, improved our productivity a hundred X. Right? All easy peasy. And we just assumed, you know, at the enterprise, it'd be just as easy. It's hard.

• 8:37Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 8:37Mark Cuban?

  And it's terrifying. And not terrifying for employees because Dario and everybody's saying 50% of white collar people are going to lose their jobs. Here we are two years later, they said within two years.

• 8:47Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 8:47Mark Cuban?

  And, you know, employment's still growing, people are hiring, we need more AI literate people, right? So CEOs have no clue what is going on, none whatsoever. And that's not going to change, right? And so, you know, trying to explain to them that.

• 9:05Mark Cuban?

  You need to add a harness to this, you know, all the

• 9:08Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 9:08Mark Cuban?

  No chance, right? And if you think about it from an AI perspective, if AI, we're talking about, you know, AGI, and we're talking about taking over the world. If you can't, if you need to have forward deployed engineers, that tells you all you need to know about AI, because by definition, you should just be able to ask AI to do what I need you to do and ask and tell me how to implement it, right? Yet here you have Microsoft hiring 6,000 people, right? You have Anthropic, OpenAI, all saying they're going to deploy to these companies, which tells you AI is hard. And then you have Alex Carr from Palantir freaking out saying, how can you give your alpha to these companies?

• 9:50Mark Cuban?

  When, in my opinion, he's just saying, they're doing what we're doing, right?

• 9:55Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 9:55Mark Cuban?

  We're, we're all about forward deployed engineers at Palantir, and they're doing the same thing.

• 10:00Jason Calacanis?

  Uh, it, it again, it's a great insight because you can, if you're using it as a search engine, or you're making your little agent to, you know, go do your cron job. Okay, fair enough. It's, it's gonna work. You need to be, have a little bit of systems thinking. But when you start putting into the enterprise and, you know, this is mission

• 10:17Mark Cuban?

  But let's just talk about the little bit of systems thinking.

• 10:19Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 10:20Mark Cuban?

  Because that's the second part. And I'm not trying to on AI. I love it. I invest in it. It's going to be amazing. It's the most impactful technology that we've ever seen and may ever see, right? But try going into Claude or ChatGPT and saying, okay, I just want you to do this search for Jason Calacanis investments, and I want you to do a report, and I want you to email it to me every week.

• 10:40Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 10:40Mark Cuban?

  You can't do it.

• 10:41Jason Calacanis?

  Can't do it.

• 10:41Mark Cuban?

  And then it says, okay, would you like for me to do an, an agent that gives you alerts? And then you say, sure. And then you have to know how to program because it either gives you a JSON file, or it gives you, you know, code.

• 10:52Jason Calacanis?

  And it comes out slop and

• 10:53Mark Cuban?

  Yeah, then you have to

• 10:54Jason Calacanis?

  It's not correct.

• 10:54Mark Cuban?

  Right? You have to reiterate. It, you know, if you want to say, you know, hey, let me load a picture in and you tell me if I'm hot or not. Or is this girl hot? What should I say to her? You know, or business versions? Great.

• 11:07Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 11:07Mark Cuban?

  Right? But AI is not going to, you know, take away 50% of the jobs. There's just so much it can't do that regular people needed to do.

• 11:17Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 11:18Mark Cuban?

  Right? Now, does that create opportunity? Enormous opportunity.

• 11:21Jason Calacanis?

  Yes.

• 11:22Mark Cuban?

  Right? So like, I'm an investor in Lovable, and we were here this morning talking. And, um, Anton was saying that, Anton was saying that, um, they, people are using Lovable to create 770,000 applications a week. A week.

• 11:38Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 11:38Mark Cuban?

  Right? And that only 30% of their business is in the US. And only, um, 20% is engineers. And what's happening is entrepreneurs, to answer your question about where it's going, right? If you're an entrepreneur, like he was saying before, there was, there's no better time to be an entrepreneur. He, he nailed it, right? Because that's where AI is the most impactful. No matter where you are in the world, they have big utilization in Brazil, India, right? If you're in France, US, wherever. You know, like, I gave, I gave it, um, a prompt, like I said, because I wanted to see what it would take. I was like, okay, we're going to create an imaginary company that has a button that can record 24-hour video.

• 12:22Mark Cuban?

  And then I wanted to be able to send it to me every 24 hours. And I want you to create a patent and a business plan and tell me what, um, licensing or whatever I need. 12 minutes.

• 12:33Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 12:35Mark Cuban?

  Like, dude, just no, we've started tons of businesses.

• 12:37Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, six months to get a prototype, 12 months to launch it.

• 12:41Mark Cuban?

  Yes.

• 12:42Jason Calacanis?

  And then you have to

• 12:43Mark Cuban?

  And then I asked for bill of materials and the source companies. Like, the basic stuff to be, that, the blocking and tackling stuff that every company has to do at, you know, when you're setting it up and early in its life cycle.

• 12:58Jason Calacanis?

  Done.

• 12:59Mark Cuban?

  Done. And even if it's wrong. So what? Because the one thing you and I both know, and everybody in the room should know, every single motherfucking business plan ever written in the history of business plans

• 13:10Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 13:10Mark Cuban?

  is wrong.

• 13:11Jason Calacanis?

  Of course. Yeah, it's, it's a thought exercise that at least gives you some sort of direction you're going.

• 13:17Mark Cuban?

  Yeah, there's a little bit of a guideline and a template for you, right? But it's wrong.

• 13:20Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, we're gonna iterate.

• 13:21Mark Cuban?

  So what if the AI is wrong, if the model was wrong? You know, because you're gonna learn and you're gonna iterate. But it's still, again, all this talk about taking white-collar jobs is ridiculous when it can't even do the basic

• 13:36Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 13:36Mark Cuban?

  Right? And you have to have, like you said, a programming mindset

• 13:39Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 13:40Mark Cuban?

  in order to be able to iterate and figure it out. And like, even, you would think if AI is as advanced as we want to believe AI is right now, all the errors that we get when we ask it to do a project, it would learn from all those errors and even have, hey, I'm Claude. I see you have a problem with this, right? And it failed on these three attempts. Let me just tell you what 97.6% of the other people who ran into this did, right? And then it would fix it for you, it would tell you. It doesn't even do that. It just says failed, right? Or says whatever. You know, again, AI is amazing. And particularly for programmers, it's game

• 14:19Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, when you have a narrow data set like code or legal

• 14:23Mark Cuban?

  It's just math.

• 14:24Jason Calacanis?

  tax, it's magic.

• 14:24Mark Cuban?

  Yeah, and it's just math, right?

• 14:26Jason Calacanis?

  It's gonna nail it.

• 14:26Mark Cuban?

  Basic data, right? But when you want it to do, when normal people, anywhere in the world, want to use it for normal stuff. Great. You start a business. Great. But if you want to start getting advanced, it's like figuring out PowerPoint used to be, or Excel, right? You always have to have your Excel expert, you know, or your PowerPoint

• 14:48Jason Calacanis?

  In your company.

• 14:49Mark Cuban?

  Yeah, or whoever that you knew, right? Or there would be companies built, um, I even invested in like a company that's SlideShare, that all they did was have PowerPoint templates that you could download and redo. AI is not even that advanced for, you know, once you get to the second level. And so that creates so much opportunity for anybody to walk into a small, medium-sized, even large business and say, hey, I understand AI. I have a basic computer background or better. And so all these fails that you're running into across your, your, your company, big or small, I can help you fix them. Because what AI can do once those issues are fixed is phenomenal.

• 15:33Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 15:33Mark Cuban?

  But even better, if you're thinking as an entrepreneur to start a business, those things will eventually break. Agents get bored, right? And they drift. Because as the underlying, um, large language model starts to change, the way it was originally programmed doesn't match with the, the large language model turned into. Right? Do you know what I'm saying?

• 15:54Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 15:54Mark Cuban?

  And so you, and you even wrote something about this, right? Where it's taking more people to manage all this stuff.

• 16:05Jason Calacanis?

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• 16:38Jason Calacanis?

  I'm trying to get the whole firm to be AI-first. And even with young people, it's like, one group embraces it. And, you know, they, they solve, you know, I don't know, let's call it five or six really pressing issues. The other group is, you know, not embracing it. And the, the difference between those AI-first employees and the non-AI-first employees, the gap is like, whoa. It's almost like when we got into the industry and somebody knew how to use the Office Suite in a PC.

• 17:06Mark Cuban?

  Right, right.

• 17:07Jason Calacanis?

  And then somebody else was like, on legal pads. It's like that much of a difference. It's so stark.

• 17:12Mark Cuban?

  People who are AI-literate.

• 17:14Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 17:14Mark Cuban?

  What, when did they run into a ceiling?

• 17:16Jason Calacanis?

  Well, you know, it's, what I'm seeing is a lot of tool hopping, which I, it's a good question because they started with OpenClaw, they started building it, it got brittle.

• 17:25Mark Cuban?

  Well, does anybody still use OpenClaw?

• 17:27Jason Calacanis?

  Who's OpenClaw? Anybody using Hermes agent? Okay, there you go. Who's on Claude Cowork? And then, oh, whoa, and Perplexity Computer, anyone? Okay, interesting. Those are the four that people have been bouncing around on. And what I decided to do is I was just like, hey, token max it. You can, you can each spend a couple thousand dollars a month. I don't care about that. I just care about the gains. And they all wound up, um, going from OpenClaw. All the agents started breaking. It's hallucinating. It's like too frustrating. They started using Claude Cowork. Okay, great. Um, but kind of limited. And then they started using Lovable. And they built Intranets for the venture business.

• 18:09Jason Calacanis?

  That no venture business would spend a half million dollars and 12 months building an Intranet. Like you'd just be like, I'm gonna put it in Notion, Google Sheets, whatever. And then they just started building more and more software. So I have two or three people who are building software that I would say five years ago, we would have spent maybe two or three million dollars a year building this with that outsourced company.

• 18:30Mark Cuban?

  You just would not have done it.

• 18:31Jason Calacanis?

  Which means we wouldn't have done it.

• 18:32Mark Cuban?

  Right. You would just bought the SaaS application that did it.

• 18:34Jason Calacanis?

  And then we would have tried to like shoehorn it into a SaaS app and customize it. It wouldn't have worked. We would have given up.

• 18:39Mark Cuban?

  But how are you going to manage it now, once they get there?

• 18:42Jason Calacanis?

  Well, you know, again, to your company, Lovable, which man, congrats on that investment, because that company was going to go out of business four times. And I told Anton, every time they say you're going out of business, you add 100 million in revenue.

• 18:52Mark Cuban?

  Yeah.

• 18:53Jason Calacanis?

  600 million in revenue.

• 18:54Mark Cuban?

  Yeah.

• 18:54Jason Calacanis?

  And four times. 200 million, 300 million. Oh yeah. It's going to be absorbed into the frontier models.

• 18:59Mark Cuban?

  The rest of the world, right?

• 19:00Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 19:00Mark Cuban?

  I mean, I've got Lovable. I've got Synthesia.io.

• 19:05Jason Calacanis?

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:05Mark Cuban?

  That was the first investor in.

• 19:06Jason Calacanis?

  Nice.

• 19:07Mark Cuban?

  10 years ago, maybe, that are just, it's just killing it, right? I've got AMI, which is Yann LeCun's world model.

• 19:13Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 19:14Mark Cuban?

  We haven't even talked about world models versus LLM and transformers, right? Because everything we do is built on text and pictures.

• 19:21Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 19:22Mark Cuban?

  Nothing's going to be text and pictures in 10 years, right? And but what's going to drive it? And like, people say, well, AI is so smart. It's going to change everything. I'm like, okay, if you tell AI, if you show AI a video of a two-year-old on a high chair with a sippy cup, the two-year-old knows if you push the sippy cup over the edge.

• 19:43Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 19:43Mark Cuban?

  Mom's going to come running and the AI, the kid's going to start laughing.

• 19:46Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 19:47Mark Cuban?

  AI's got no clue what's going to happen.

• 19:49Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 19:50Mark Cuban?

  None, right? Would you, if you're at a corner, blindfolded, and you have to cross the street, would you rather have a video, would you rather have your phone with AI? Or would you rather have a CNI dog?

• 20:02Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, dog.

• 20:03Mark Cuban?

  I'm taking the dog every time.

• 20:04Jason Calacanis?

  Of course, yeah. It's not ready.

• 20:05Mark Cuban?

  Right?

• 20:05Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 20:06Mark Cuban?

  It's not ready. So just think about how far we have to go.

• 20:09Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 20:10Mark Cuban?

  You know, and all this.

• 20:11Jason Calacanis?

  Huge opportunity, though. I mean, the world models are crazy, because you have videos available on YouTube and just, we have the world there, so.

• 20:20Mark Cuban?

  And that's still not enough.

• 20:21Jason Calacanis?

  It's not enough. They have to wear gloves and you're, now they've got people in Manila, like, doing recipes.

• 20:27Mark Cuban?

  So I invested in this company, Matter.com, and they're launching satellites, just to take, and they do spectrography, where they take, use the satellites to take videos of everything underneath them, and use a spectrography, I don't even understand all this shit, in order to be able to convert it into a world model that will provide algorithms that other world models can use.

• 20:49Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 20:49Mark Cuban?

  Right? There's just no way that the, the future of AI doesn't include video.

• 20:55Jason Calacanis?

  Well, I mean, it's, it's a huge part of it. And as the inference, and the, back to the build out of these data centers, as we wonder what's going to happen, people wanting to use more tokens, and then these world building and video, man, that takes a magnitude of tokens.

• 21:14Mark Cuban?

  Yeah, video, like, if I'm going to be wrong on the data centers, it's going to be because of video.

• 21:17Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 21:17Mark Cuban?

  Right?

• 21:18Jason Calacanis?

  And world models and robotics, which is all related, yeah.

• 21:20Mark Cuban?

  Yeah. And robotics, you know, it's related, but we've still got a long way to go.

• 21:26Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. Health. You look great, by the way. I don't know what's going on. You got the, what do you got? Red and True Tie? What's on the menu here? What's off the menu?

• 21:34Mark Cuban?

  Follow me on Instagram, M Cuban. I just, I'm eating better, not.

• 21:38Jason Calacanis?

  I mean, you look better now than 20 years ago.

• 21:40Mark Cuban?

  Oh, I appreciate that. Thanks. The TAM helps, too, right?

• 21:42Jason Calacanis?

  The TAM. But I mean, you, you look thin and fit. And listen, we're getting up there now. We're not kids anymore. This is definitely going to help AI, all the work being done.

• 21:53Mark Cuban?

  And I use it, too. Like, I invested in a company called Open Evidence.

• 21:56Jason Calacanis?

  Yes.

• 21:57Mark Cuban?

  Yeah, which is just for medical, right? And I used it, and like, I have two, I have one supplement I have to take, because my iron levels are low, and I have to take this one medication. And I was taking them at the same time and couldn't understand why I was having problems. I'm running through Open Evidence, and I said, here's everything I'm taking. Here's everything I'm eating. And they're like, no, you got to do this. You know, when you get up to pee at 3:00 in the morning, take this medication.

• 22:19Jason Calacanis?

  Oh, man.

• 22:20Mark Cuban?

  When you get, you know.

• 22:20Jason Calacanis?

  Getting old sucks.

• 22:21Mark Cuban?

  Yeah, right.

• 22:22Jason Calacanis?

  I was, I was right there with you last night. What's going on?

• 22:25Mark Cuban?

  What's going on, right? And so, you know, but it's, for health, it's going to make a huge difference, but it's not going to replace doctors.

• 22:35Jason Calacanis?

  No. But I mean, it is pretty amazing. Are you on Whoop or your Apple Watch?

• 22:40Mark Cuban?

  I Watch, yeah.

• 22:40Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, I mean, the Apple, the Whoop, plus getting your blood test, just self-directed healthcare with AI, man, you're going to get some early wins. And then when you do go talk to your doctor.

• 22:51Mark Cuban?

  No, you have it right there, right?

• 22:52Jason Calacanis?

  You have it right there.

• 22:53Mark Cuban?

  I get my blood tested, you know, now the pressure's just all up three to six months.

• 22:57Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 22:57Mark Cuban?

  Right? And I've been doing it for 10 years, so I know all my trends.

• 23:00Jason Calacanis?

  Wow. And so you were doing it before function and superpower and all those.

• 23:03Mark Cuban?

  Like, you could go look up Mark Cuban blood test on Twitter, right, X, and I would get into it with doctors like eight, 10 years ago, saying, you're going to need this for your benchmarks. And, but it's only going to get better.

• 23:15Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. It's going to be really interesting. We had this big data moment, and it was like, okay, yeah, we're storing all this data, but we didn't have any intelligence against it. Now, that's incredible, when Apple is now putting that data, they're doing studies. I don't know if you've been invited to studies on your Apple Watch. I'm like, well, this is going to get very interesting. Whoop just added blood panels.

• 23:36Mark Cuban?

  Yeah.

• 23:36Jason Calacanis?

  So now your sleep data, your steps, your heart rate, your respiratory EKG, plus your blood work.

• 23:43Mark Cuban?

  That's pretty.

• 23:44Jason Calacanis?

  Then, if you can get your diet into it as well.

• 23:46Mark Cuban?

  Yeah, that's what I Watch has in iHealth, right?

• 23:48Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 23:49Mark Cuban?

  So, yeah, you're just going to get smarter.

• 23:51Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 23:51Mark Cuban?

  You know, and that'll make your doctors able to be smarter, because 95% of medicine is guessing. You know, because you can't, there's no way a doctor can memorize all the new [BLEEP] that happens every single day. You just can't. But a doctor using these tools, having, you know, the empathy and the ability to communicate and the ability to see.

• 24:10Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 24:10Mark Cuban?

  Right? Because, again, there's, you can't see.

• 24:14Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 24:14Mark Cuban?

  You know, you could have, doctor, you know, why am I bleeding? You got a, blood, it looks like you got a gunshot wound, right? AI is not going to tell you that, Dwayne, today.

• 24:27Jason Calacanis?

  When we look at the opportunity here, it's going to be a lot of change, a lot of talk about wealth disparity in the US. Invest America, our friend Brad Gersner and our friend Michael Dahl, another great Texan, and thanks for welcoming me. I'm enjoying my time in Texas.

• 24:45Mark Cuban?

  You're welcome. Yeah.

• 24:45Jason Calacanis?

  I mean, it's [BLEEP] great. I love Texas, man.

• 24:48Mark Cuban?

  Texas is fun. It's kind of like, the heat's kind of like this, though.

• 24:50Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 24:50Mark Cuban?

  We have air conditioning.

• 24:52Jason Calacanis?

  We do have air conditioning. There's a record number of air conditioners coming from China to Europe this summer.

• 24:58Mark Cuban?

  You know, I looked at what companies installed them and everything.

• 25:01Jason Calacanis?

  Oh, you always got to trade. You always got to trade.

• 25:04Mark Cuban?

  I'm curious, but there's no rule.

• 25:05Jason Calacanis?

  Sold out. They're all being shipped here from China at the moment. But really interestingly, you know, feels like entrepreneurship, which has been our shared passion for many decades, hey, investing, another shared one, giving people access to public markets, Invest America, we have this dueling narrative, socialism in America, capitalism, and it feels like this is the, in our lifetimes, you and I are close in age, this is the most fevered we've ever seen it. I mean, we have states, maybe not since the 60s or 70s. I missed that. I was born in 1970. You were born, I guess, 1943?

• 25:47Mark Cuban?

  23.

• 25:48Jason Calacanis?

  23. I always joke, he's my older brother.

• 25:50Mark Cuban?

  I look good, too, don't I?

• 25:50Jason Calacanis?

  You look good for 1923. But, you know, it's, this is pretty polarized. And what's your take on the socialist?

• 25:58Mark Cuban?

  There's two things here.

• 25:59Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 25:59Mark Cuban?

  One, all the DSA stuff is local.

• 26:02Jason Calacanis?

  Right.

• 26:02Mark Cuban?

  It's really easy to be Mandami in, in New York, when you have a budget, you get to control it. And it's local, right? You got elected, you just do, and you have to balance the budget. And you'll see to Michigan and wherever else, I don't think it's going to be game-changing. But the more important thing is, the people who are doing this are the people who are best at social media.

• 26:22Jason Calacanis?

  Right.

• 26:23Mark Cuban?

  You know, because the algorithms drive how people vote in the United States, I can't speak to the rest of the world, more than anything else. Whoever controls the algorithm controls, you know, the election in many cases. Trump knows how to use it. And what, what to Mandami, you know, what, what is unique about Mandami relative to Trump? He's what, 31, 32 years old?

• 26:43Jason Calacanis?

  Yep.

• 26:43Mark Cuban?

  His whole adult life has been Trump. And social media.

• 26:47Jason Calacanis?

  He's studied it.

• 26:49Mark Cuban?

  And the two together.

• 26:50Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 26:50Mark Cuban?

  And the kid, the guy in Michigan, same thing. So if, if you're good at AI, I mean, at algorithm, you know, driving algorithms, whether it's flooding the zone, or, you know, like Trump saying, they're eating cats and dogs.

• 27:03Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, it's just attention.

• 27:04Mark Cuban?

  Yeah, and it's just, you know, defining the algorithms, because whatever you search for, you get more of. And if they can get you to search for what they're saying and show your interest, then you're going to just get Madami 24/7.

• 27:19Jason Calacanis?

  Yep.

• 27:20Mark Cuban?

  And you'll get the positive size of Madami. Or if you happen to be on the other side of the aisle and you are, you know, looking at stuff that's counter to that, you'll get more of that. We don't, you know, like, but one other piece I think is starting to change that. And that's the large language models.

• 27:36Jason Calacanis?

  Hmm.

• 27:36Mark Cuban?

  The thing that I think will save us as a world more than anything else in terms of information availability and reducing the information asymmetry as it applies to politics are large language models. Because large language models have to be as literate or and literal and honest as they possibly can.

• 27:58Jason Calacanis?

  Truth seeking.

• 27:59Mark Cuban?

  Yeah, truth seeking, better way to put it, yeah. So they, they have to seek truth. Otherwise, you'll lose trust in them. And the last thing, you know, Claude, OpenAI needs is, well, you know, they're lying their ass off about this for.

• 28:11Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, their currency is getting you the correct answer and the correct knowledge. Social media's currency is keeping you engaged.

• 28:17Mark Cuban?

  Right.

• 28:18Jason Calacanis?

  It's two different missions.

• 28:19Mark Cuban?

  Totally different missions, right? And so you're not going to get rid of social media. But I think people, as they become more uncertain with their politics, are going to go more and more and more to large language models and say, who should I vote for?

• 28:34Jason Calacanis?

  Hmm.

• 28:34Mark Cuban?

  And the large language models are going to come back and say, well, what do you think about this? What are your insistence this and da, da, da? And they'll give you honest answers.

• 28:40Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, and if you ask it, hey, what's a reasonable immigration policy? It'll give you a reasonable immigration policy, which is like, yeah, maybe shut the border and do a point-based system.

• 28:50Mark Cuban?

  Yes.

• 28:51Jason Calacanis?

  Like Canada, New Zealand.

• 28:52Mark Cuban?

  Whatever it may be, right?

• 28:53Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 28:53Mark Cuban?

  I've done the same thing and it's impressive.

• 28:55Jason Calacanis?

  Very impressive. You know, my favorite troll now is like JD or, you know, AOC will, you know, they'll come out with whatever their craziness is on either side of the aisle. And then I'm like, Akrok, please vet these claims. Be as objective and factual as possible. Check your work.

• 29:11Mark Cuban?

  And show your stories.

• 29:12Jason Calacanis?

  And then it just replies to them. So I've been just totally trolling Stephen Miller.

• 29:15Mark Cuban?

  Oh, my God.

• 29:16Jason Calacanis?

  Who, you know, he's like anti-immigration. I'm very passionate about like legal immigration and recruiting great people because.

• 29:22Mark Cuban?

  Need them, we need them.

• 29:24Jason Calacanis?

  Yes. If every, because you're running a basketball team. Every time you get Dirk Nowitzki, somebody else doesn't have him on the team. You get Jalen Brunson, it's not on the Mavericks anymore. Now he's on the Knicks.

• 29:35Mark Cuban?

  Yep.

• 29:35Jason Calacanis?

  You know, like.

• 29:36Mark Cuban?

  Well, that's why we come to these things in Europe, right?

• 29:38Jason Calacanis?

  Yes.

• 29:38Mark Cuban?

  Because great talent, right? Smart people. Obviously, you guys are geniuses for being here. You know, um, but, but at the same time, there's a different vibe in every European country and India and the whole rest of the world.

• 29:53Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 29:53Mark Cuban?

  Right? And I think you're starting to see some entrepreneurs leave us.

• 29:58Jason Calacanis?

  Yep.

• 29:58Mark Cuban?

  To come here. And that's scary.

• 30:01Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 30:01Mark Cuban?

  And hopefully, you know, large language models seeking the truth will help educate people away from what the algorithms tell them.

• 30:09Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, I think it's like important. You're optimistic now. Um, it's been pretty chaotic, but we're seeing such great progress. You're optimistic about? Let's start with America and then we'll go to humanity.

• 30:24Mark Cuban?

  Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, you know, like every country, we have our issues. Um, ours just happen to be kind of insane.

• 30:33Jason Calacanis?

  Um, it is pretty wild.

• 30:35Mark Cuban?

  Yeah.

• 30:37Mark Cuban?

  But the good news is, you know, we have term limits for our president.

• 30:41Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 30:41Mark Cuban?

  And.

• 30:42Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. And it seems like 12, three terms is going to be the one for president. I mean, you're going to run? I mean, I hope you do, man. I would love to be your press secretary. That would be a, we'd have so much fun.

• 30:55Mark Cuban?

  We'd have fun though.

• 30:55Jason Calacanis?

  We'd have fun.

• 30:56Mark Cuban?

  We would have fun. Well, if he decides to run for a third term, then I'll run, but he's.

• 30:59Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. Okay, that's good. That's breaking news. I mean, I, uh, honestly, like, um, if you think about what we need, I think in leadership, executives who can, I think, you know, who are like post-money, post needing to make a living.

• 31:15Mark Cuban?

  No, I'm not going to even go there.

• 31:18Jason Calacanis?

  Well, and then maybe who are doing it for love of country and maybe some amount of civic pride or.

• 31:24Mark Cuban?

  I get what you're saying, right? And it's just like, you know, in the US, what the Democrats don't know how to actually do anything.

• 31:32Jason Calacanis?

  Right.

• 31:32Mark Cuban?

  You know, they know how to take whatever happens and extrapolate that to the end of the world and the end of democracy. Right?

• 31:39Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 31:40Mark Cuban?

  But, and the Republicans, on the other hand, you know, do crazy shit, right? Like they don't care about the people in the country. They don't, you know, there's no connection to people. There's no empathy. And so, you know, we're, but, um, in the short term, but I think as we get past this next, the midterms and the next presidential election.

• 31:59Jason Calacanis?

  I think we'll get back to normalcy.

• 32:00Mark Cuban?

  Yeah, I think we'll get.

• 32:01Jason Calacanis?

  I think people want it and, you know, the thing that's been really eye-opening for me, having lived in New York, California, now Texas. You know, in Texas, we're spent half as much money per, sometimes less. I think it's two and 2.2 times as much is spent on each citizen in New York. Uh, and, uh, we spend half as much, right? Six, $7,000 per person. They spend like 14 or something, 12 to 14. And, uh, quality of life's better.

• 32:28Mark Cuban?

  But on the flip side, New York contributes more to the federal treasury.

• 32:32Jason Calacanis?

  Yes.

• 32:33Mark Cuban?

  Than Texas does. And you would think it should be the opposite, right? Just because of the business and how things are run. So there are trade-offs.

• 32:40Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, but it's, it's changing. I would think about all of us moving to Austin and like Texas. You got.

• 32:45Mark Cuban?

  Smart, obviously, for obvious reason, particularly, you know, like the wealth tax shit is just dumb, dumb, crazy.

• 32:51Jason Calacanis?

  They tried it here. Everybody left.

• 32:53Mark Cuban?

  It worked, yeah.

• 32:54Jason Calacanis?

  And they did it for about two years in France.

• 32:56Mark Cuban?

  Did they? Yeah, I don't know. But, you know, when Elizabeth Warren first proposed the wealth tax.

• 33:00Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 33:01Mark Cuban?

  And so I found, and she said, well, we have these models and everything.

• 33:04Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 33:04Mark Cuban?

  So I found the economist at UC Berkeley. And I said, would you share your model with me or at least tell me about it? He goes, I'm like, was it more than one year? And he goes, no, it was just one year. I'm like, did you do any behavioral analysis to see how people would respond to the changes?

• 33:18Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 33:18Mark Cuban?

  No. And so, you know, whether it's Madami, Elizabeth Warren, whether it's California, it's, it's showmanship more than reality.

• 33:27Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, and I think people are forgetting that people are mobile, you know, like.

• 33:32Mark Cuban?

  Especially in the US, yeah.

• 33:34Jason Calacanis?

  In the US, it's pretty extraordinary. You got Travis, Sacks, myself, Elon, just a bunch of folks have all of a sudden just shown up.

• 33:42Mark Cuban?

  I was there first.

• 33:42Jason Calacanis?

  You were. I remember talking to you about it. And the thing that's amazing to me is, you know, in California, they won't let you build anything. And then we go to, um, I come to Texas, I buy a ranch and I asked the guy like, hey, can I like, put a solar farm in here? He's like, on your ranch? I'm like, yeah, here. He's like, oh, son, it's your ranch. You can do that. And I was like, can I, can I like build like?

• 34:04Mark Cuban?

  Trust me, in the cities themselves, you're not doing that in the city of Austin.

• 34:07Jason Calacanis?

  I mean, but just outside of it, you can build.

• 34:10Mark Cuban?

  Whatever, yeah.

• 34:10Jason Calacanis?

  And the housing prices have gone three, three years in a row. Housing prices and rents have gone down. When you build a company in Austin now, I'm sure it's like that in Dallas and Houston and San Antonio. When I have founders move there, the entire pressure is released. People can own a home. And I was like, wow, is that.

• 34:27Mark Cuban?

  But why do people still go to Silicon Valley? That shit like drives me.

• 34:32Jason Calacanis?

  I, I think if you're a first-time founder, nothing better in terms of soaking in it. But when you're a second-time founder.

• 34:37Mark Cuban?

  You're soaking in it, but what they don't tell you, the it is shit, right?

• 34:40Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, it's tough. I think second-time founders have now realized, if I build it in Texas or Nevada or Florida, I'm going to just, all the talent's going to come.

• 34:49Mark Cuban?

  Vibe in the Silicon Valley just sets people's heads so wrong.

• 34:52Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 34:52Mark Cuban?

  Right? So whether it's Travis, Mike, by the way, I've, I've known Michael Dell since we were 22.

• 34:57Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 34:57Mark Cuban?

  And I used to do business with him way back when. Um, but just the, in Texas, it's just like, build your company and go.

• 35:04Jason Calacanis?

  Yes.

• 35:05Mark Cuban?

  In the valley, it's like, so are you series A? Are you series B? Are you series C?

• 35:10Jason Calacanis?

  A lot of distractions, yeah. 25 years, I've been waiting for my Knicks to win a championship. And you played a significant role.

• 35:20Mark Cuban?

  No, the Spurs played a significant role. They should have kicked your ass.

• 35:23Jason Calacanis?

  And why didn't they? Why didn't?

• 35:25Mark Cuban?

  I think it was coaching, lack of experience.

• 35:28Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 35:28Mark Cuban?

  Cause you're up, put aside the 29, right? You're up in the fourth quarter of every game. Wemby throws it into the back of some guy, misses two free throws. De'Aaron Fox goes the wrong way.

• 35:39Jason Calacanis?

  A lot of mistakes.

• 35:40Mark Cuban?

  Yeah, and you'd be talking about firing Mike Brown.

• 35:42Jason Calacanis?

  I mean, it was, we were concerned when he got hired and getting rid of Tibbs. Oh, my God.

• 35:48Mark Cuban?

  Yeah, but JB was the real deal, right?

• 35:50Jason Calacanis?

  Yes.

• 35:50Mark Cuban?

  My Indiana boy, OG, right?

• 35:52Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 35:52Mark Cuban?

  He, you know, he saved you guys, so.

• 35:54Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. Uh, and you had Jalen Brunson.

• 35:57Mark Cuban?

  Yep.

• 35:59Jason Calacanis?

  He left and that was kind of destiny. His family wanted to come to New York.

• 36:03Mark Cuban?

  That's what he wanted. I mean, I could show you a text where his agent, you know, texted me, says he wants his own team.

• 36:08Jason Calacanis?

  He wants his own team.

• 36:08Mark Cuban?

  Right. Yeah. He was ready to go.

• 36:10Jason Calacanis?

  And I, I texted or emailed you and I said, what's the story of the, this is what we're going to base the franchise on. You said, he's really good. He's the real deal.

• 36:18Mark Cuban?

  No, and I love, he's a great guy. That's the best part about JB. He's just really a good human.

• 36:22Jason Calacanis?

  I, I was there uh for the fifth game, six rows behind the bench.

• 36:28Mark Cuban?

  That's cool.

• 36:29Jason Calacanis?

  And man, I, I just cried. I just cried. It's been so many years and you got your chip too with Dirk.

• 36:37Mark Cuban?

  Yep.

• 36:38Jason Calacanis?

  It's so amazing how sports plays such a role in so many people's lives. Yeah.

• 36:44Mark Cuban?

  Especially now, look at the World Cup. I mean, it's just like, sports has just changed everything. And you know, like, I've been to four World Cup games in Dallas and I hate soccer, football.

• 36:53Jason Calacanis?

  Right.

• 36:54Mark Cuban?

  Right? I hate it, but just the whole scene, the vibe, the energy, you can't beat it. It's like going to a Knicks game, going to a Mavs game, same thing.

• 37:02Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. And the NBA, is it, is it peaked? It, it sounds like.

• 37:08Mark Cuban?

  It's hard to say. I mean, you know, for fans, no, because I mean, it just grows on social media. You know, I, I went, um, I was walking in Paris and there was a basketball store, you know, and had Wemby jerseys and Gobert jerseys and everything. And so, I mean, it's just growing globally.

• 37:23Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. Is Wemby the real deal?

• 37:26Mark Cuban?

  Yeah, he's got, he, he got humbled though.

• 37:28Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 37:28Mark Cuban?

  Which is good for him. It's like Dirk in 2006 got humbled and came back better. Wemby will come back bigger, stronger, better.

• 37:34Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. It's amazing how he went from this like incredibly, I don't know, there was, there was a magic about him to, no, he's a villain. And he turned into a villain.

• 37:45Mark Cuban?

  This was New York and it was 50 some years, right? And just the circumstances and you know, San Antonio thought they had in the bag, everybody. It's like, I went to Indiana University, right? And if anybody here follows college football in the States, like we were the ultimate underdog. We had not had, you know, we had not won 10 games. We had, we beat more top 10 teams last year than we did in a hundred plus years of the program. And so that, that just changes people's attitude.

• 38:11Jason Calacanis?

  You were very much involved in rule changes and what we're going to get on AI next, but it's just great to talk to you about this since we're both such super fans of the NBA. Seems like the rule changes, the apron and um, you know, how punitive it is, has created a lot more parity uh in the league and

• 38:30Mark Cuban?

  Yeah.

• 38:30Jason Calacanis?

  Nobody knows who's going to win like.

• 38:33Mark Cuban?

  Well, because you have to break up your team, right? Because at some point, OKC will have to break up their team. That's why they collect all their draft assets. Because you can't have three max players.

• 38:43Jason Calacanis?

  No.

• 38:44Mark Cuban?

  And if one of them turns out to be hurt or not what you expected, then you're in deep [BLEEP], right? And so the second apron is just a complete game changer and you have to be so much better at putting together a team than you were before. And you have to get lucky, like the Spurs have Wemby on a rookie contract, you know, um, the, the OKC has got no hatchet on a rookie contract. He's not on a rookie contract any longer.

• 39:09Jason Calacanis?

  Right.

• 39:09Mark Cuban?

  So they have to be even more careful. And so it really changes the strategy behind building a roster.

• 39:15Jason Calacanis?

  So we, we're going to see back to backs or any more?

• 39:17Mark Cuban?

  No chance.

• 39:18Jason Calacanis?

  No chance.

• 39:18Mark Cuban?

  No, I.

• 39:19Jason Calacanis?

  Maybe back to backs, but not a, what do they call when you have three? The three-peat.

• 39:23Mark Cuban?

  Three-peat, yeah. There can be back to backs, like, you know, um, if Jalen, Jay Williams, um, J-Dub hadn't gotten hurt for OKC, I think they would have beat San Antonio and I think they would have beat the Nets.

• 39:34Jason Calacanis?

  I was worried about them versus the Knicks. I knew we could beat the Spurs, but I was concerned.

• 39:39Mark Cuban?

  You did not know you could beat the Spurs. Come on.

• 39:41Jason Calacanis?

  We beat them two out of three of the games of the year. We spanked them. I knew it would be like, I, I said Knicks in six, it was Knicks in five.

• 39:47Mark Cuban?

  You guys barely beat the Hawks and then.

• 39:50Jason Calacanis?

  Oh, come on now. Uh, we, we, we were tweaking the offense and we just had to get Kat to buy in as points.

• 39:55Mark Cuban?

  Anyways, let's talk AI.

• 39:57Jason Calacanis?

  Let's talk AI. Um, but it is so great to be a champion. God, it was.

• 40:03Mark Cuban?

  Where's your ring? They didn't give you.

• 40:04Jason Calacanis?

  I, they didn't yet. No, I'm going to get it at the ring ceremony. You got one. I, you know, I always was like, man, I gotta follow cubes and get, you know, a piece of a team.

• 40:13Mark Cuban?

  You'd always tell me you wanted to buy a team.

• 40:15Jason Calacanis?

  I always wanted to get like a, you know, a piece of the Knicks and now it's like, my net worth, doing great. The value of the team is disconnected from reality. I mean, my only chance is to call like Elon and be like.

• 40:26Mark Cuban?

  Another crazy part about um, the valuations is it's not driven by attendance. It's not driven by wins or losses. It's driven by subscriptions to streaming services.

• 40:36Jason Calacanis?

  Wow.

• 40:37Mark Cuban?

  And it's going to be interesting to see because it used to be, we looked at ratings, TV ratings.

• 40:42Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 40:42Mark Cuban?

  And people said the NBA was underperforming versus everybody else. Now the Knicks play, obviously there's some pent up um, demand there. But what really matters is the number of subscribers Peacock gets, ESPN gets. It's the ratings for ad sales, but it's more subscribers.

• 40:58Jason Calacanis?

  I mean, I literally had to subscribe to like, I think one or two more services.

• 41:01Mark Cuban?

  That's the whole point, right? And did you keep them is the question.

• 41:04Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, I'll keep them. Sure. I mean.

• 41:05Mark Cuban?

  But there, will there be churn? If there's churn, who knows what happens with valuations? If there's not, valuations keep on going.

• 41:12Jason Calacanis?

  Wow. So crazy. All right. Listen, there's your uh 45 minutes with Mark Cuban, the one and only.