#2348 - Lukas Nelson

Lukas Nelson is a country music singer/songwriter and Grammy Award-winning producer. His new album, “American Romance,” is available now.www.lukasnelson.com The ultimate wireless hack. Make the switch at https://visible.com/rogan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  We're up. Lucas, what's up?

• 0:14Speaker 03

  Hey, man.

• 0:15Joe Rogan?

  Good to talk to you, man. Thanks for being here.

• 0:17Speaker 03

  Good to be here, yeah. I appreciate you having me.

• 0:19Joe Rogan?

  I gotta tell you, you know, when I heard Willie Nelson's Kid Plays Music, there's a thing that you always do, and I have to admit it, you do it like when the son of a great man, you always assume, "Well, he's probably mediocre." You know what I mean? And then you performed at McConaughey's, that charity function thing, and you fucking killed it, man. You blew me away. It was incredible. And I was like, "Wow." It was really cool to see, man. It was really exciting. It was really fun. You were the highlight of the night, man. You really were.

• 0:57Speaker 03

  It's moments like those where I started to gain confidence, you know? I'd have, over the years, I'd go out and play, and I'd play my songs that I've written, and I'd get crowds that would do that, you know? And so that gave me the confidence to keep going. And I first started playing music in order to get closer to my father.

• 1:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:21Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? So I, he would be gone all the time.

• 1:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:25Speaker 03

  And I'd be missing him. And, uh, and so, in order to get close to him, I figured I need to speak the same musical language. And, uh, and so I learned young, and I wrote a song, young, uh, that's on the new album, actually, I got, it's called "You Are It." It's the first song I ever wrote when I was 11.

• 1:44Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:45Speaker 03

  And my dad loved it so much that he covered it at the time, and he put it out on his album back in 2004, called "It Always Will Be." The album was called "It Always Will Be." And that gave me the confidence at a young age. Kris Kristofferson came up to me, and he's like, "Man, you don't have a choice but to be a songwriter." And so I had all this inspiration at a young age. Kinda like an athlete, at a certain point, you kind of have to look at, like, "Oh, well, if I have a talent at this, I have, like, I have connections in the industry."

• 2:21Speaker 03

  I need to work like I was gonna go to the Olympics on this because it's something that I can do that will make it so that I never have to rely on my family or my father for anything.

• 2:31Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:32Speaker 03

  You know, I, my whole goal in life is to discover who I am as an individual, you know.

• 2:39Joe Rogan?

  Is that a part of the difficulty of growing up with an incredibly famous father?

• 2:44Speaker 03

  I think the, you know, Viktor Frankl has a, um, a book, a very famous book called Man's Search for Meaning.

• 2:53Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 2:54Speaker 03

  And it's about Auschwitz and he was an Auschwitz survivor and he wrote about what was the common denominator in terms of people who persevered and survived in these camps. And dignity and meaning were the common denominators generally. And so finding who you, what you mean in this life to yourself, it doesn't have to mean anything to anyone else. And I think that's where, for me, I've lived my whole life trying to discover who I meant to myself so that at the moment of my death, I can look back and say, I did something that I enjoyed, that was meaningful, that gave me a sense of purpose.

• 3:36Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Yeah, the, the, there's a, both a blessing and a burden to, uh, being the child of someone who's incredibly famous at a thing that you're trying to do.

• 3:49Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 3:50Joe Rogan?

  You know, like there's, there's a lot of sons of athletes, for instance.

• 3:54Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:55Joe Rogan?

  That live in their father's shadow and very few of them ever rise to the level that their father was at.

• 4:02Speaker 03

  Sure, I think for me, I was never trying to be as great as him. I was only trying to be close to him because more than anything, my father's a great human being. He's a well-rounded, kind, empathetic human and I'm.

• 4:18Speaker 03

  I I'm truly grateful to be his and my mother's son.

• 4:24Speaker 03

  You know, because I have a good family, I'm lucky, you know.

• 4:27Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome.

• 4:28Speaker 03

  You know, I have a good, good parent. So what I was trying to do was just be closer to him and, you know, as a little kid, you know, the, the best thing my mom ever did was when I was like, earlier, I was probably five or six years old and my brother had just passed away not too uh, long before this actually. And I would cry every time my dad would leave, you know. And my mom sat me down one time and she said, it tears him apart when you cry like this because he doesn't want to leave. He's going out there, he's making people happy, he's giving people joy and he's doing what he came here on this earth to do. And he's supporting this family. And so the support that my mother had for him,

• 5:10Speaker 03

  at that moment, I never cried again. I was able to let go of that idea and then just from that point on, work towards creating what would make me happy in my life and give me the same joy and then give, and be able to take care of a family, hopefully. You know, my, one of my greatest sources of pride is that I haven't had to ask my parents for anything. I bought my own house. I bought my, you know, I, I went and did Star is Born and I got, you know, I mean, I, I've been able to make myself a living and I think that makes my parents proud, it makes my dad proud and that's what I've always wanted to do. That's been my whole, my whole life is wanting to make them proud.

• 5:49Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome. Well, it's a great motivation, you know, for sure. When, especially when you have great parents to, to try to make them proud of you.

• 5:56Speaker 03

  I'm lucky in that way, you know. I know a lot of people have broken homes and grew up and, and even, I caught dad at a good time. I mean, my dad was fifty-five or so when he had me, you know, and so he had already been through a lot of his demons and gotten through them and faced them, you know, and was still going through them at the time that I was born, but he had come out of, you know, a life of habit and sort of formed the ones that would take him at that point to where he is now at ninety-two years old.

• 6:26Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 6:27Speaker 03

  And so I got a good version of dad, uh, you know, who had grown since, you know, and so, man, you know, I'm the luckiest guy in the world. I feel like, I, you know, I was able to be exposed to a lot of great music, a lot of great mentors, you know, in my life and.

• 6:46Speaker 03

  And I'm also lucky that I, at a young age, I'm grateful to my younger child, to myself as a young child, for having the wisdom to say, alright, work hard now, forget about parties, forget about hanging out, work hard, eight hours, ten hours a day, practice your guitar, write all the time, sing all the time, so that when you get to a certain point in life, you'll have something to show for it, you know, something that you can leave behind that's yours.

• 7:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's awesome, man. You know, that's what most people in this life want. They want a purpose.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:22Joe Rogan?

  You know, they want something that means something both to them and to other people.

• 7:27Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 7:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's hard to find.

• 7:29Speaker 03

  It's hard to find a purpose, you know. That is something that I've always had growing up, and I think it's because I was, you know, again, I'm grateful to that younger kid. Sometimes I feel like he's wiser than I am now, you know. That younger self is like, almost, I'm, you know, and now that I'm sober, I mean, I quit smoking weed, I quit drinking, and, you know.

• 7:52Joe Rogan?

  When did you do all that?

• 7:54Speaker 03

  Really around the pandemic.

• 7:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 7:56Speaker 03

  But...

• 7:57Joe Rogan?

  That's usually when a lot of people started.

• 7:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I went the opposite way. I started meditating twice a day, you know. The only thing I'll do now is mushrooms every once in a while to check in with myself and, you know, just kind of make sure that I'm, you know, I feel like mushrooms is like taking a nice, good hose to your soul and just kind of like, you know.

• 8:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, clean out all the bullshit.

• 8:16Speaker 03

  Clean out all the bullshit.

• 8:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  I feel like, you know.

• 8:19Joe Rogan?

  They should be legal.

• 8:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 8:23Joe Rogan?

  Really, if I could talk Trump into one thing, that might be the one thing. You know, I had this conversation with Paul Stamets the other day.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  I love Paul Stamets.

• 8:32Joe Rogan?

  He's amazing.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's great. I just saw him at the Dead show, the Sphere show.

• 8:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah? Oh, that's cool. That's cool, yeah.

• 8:40Speaker 03

  Have you been to his place? He invited me to his place up there. It's supposed to be amazing.

• 8:44Joe Rogan?

  I was just reading an email from him today inviting me to his place.

• 8:48Speaker 03

  That's awesome.

• 8:49Joe Rogan?

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• 9:33Joe Rogan?

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• 11:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, it might be a good idea.

• 11:39Joe Rogan?

  I mean, maybe, I don't know. I think we're gonna be okay.

• 11:43Speaker 03

  I do, too.

• 11:44Joe Rogan?

  I do. I mean, I think the feeling that we might not be okay, though, was a great motivator.

• 11:50Speaker 03

  We should always be checking in with ourselves and asking ourselves, are we going too far to certain extremes?

• 11:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, that was the part of the conversation that we had. You know, we're like, is there a thing that could really help the world? And it sounds so cliche and hippie and, especially to someone who's never done mushrooms. But I think that might be the thing. You know, even if it's just like small doses, just a little something to alleviate anxiety, bring people close together, make them understand that there's more to life than conflict and bullshit. And most of your conflict is bullshit. Most of it's nonsense and most of it's unnecessary.

• 12:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, my dad always says 99% of the things you worry about never come true. You know, and it's just a matter of...

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it is sort of a cliche. I read The Power of Now, which is Eckhart Tolle, when I was like 13. I used, I went to school next to a Buddhist temple. And so I grew up with my dad teaching me the Lord's Prayer, I'd say every night. And then I'd go to this Buddhist temple and hang with these monks, you know.

• 12:54Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 12:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:55Joe Rogan?

  Where is that?

• 12:55Speaker 03

  In Maui. I grew up part-time in Austin. I was born in Austin and I was in Maui.

• 13:00Joe Rogan?

  There's a Buddhist temple in Maui?

• 13:01Speaker 03

  There's a Buddhist temple right near where I was going to school at the time. So after school every day, I'd sit with these monks. And just the vibe of that is powerful, the chanting, the energy around that, you know, the presence though that they have, they're just, you know, their whole goal obviously is to just, you know, be purely present.

• 13:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:21Speaker 03

  And, uh, and so while that sounds like a cliche, I, I truly believe that that's an important thing, you know, to, to let go of the, the, the battle of positive and negative that in the mental space, that's all that exists is duality, you know?

• 13:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, to find a true path, you have to avoid being pushed and pulled in a bunch of directions that are totally unnecessary.

• 13:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:49Joe Rogan?

  And sometimes you get sort of preoccupied or captivated by the push and the pull of bullshit.

• 13:56Speaker 03

  Well, and we're, we're, we, there is a manipulation that happens, um, on purpose. I have a song called Turn Off The News And Build A Garden.

• 14:06Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 14:07Speaker 03

  Ever, you ever hear that song?

• 14:09Joe Rogan?

  No, I haven't heard that one.

• 14:10Speaker 03

  You want me to play it for you?

• 14:11Joe Rogan?

  Fuck yeah, yeah, play it.

• 14:12Speaker 03

  All right. This is a song called Turn Off The News And Build A Garden, and I wrote it because...

• 14:17Joe Rogan?

  Because it's great advice.

• 14:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I just, I was just, the news cycle, I mean, there's a, there's a difference between being informed and being constantly captured by the cycle.

• 14:29Joe Rogan?

  Overwhelmed.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 14:38Speaker 03

  Got a tune for all your listeners.

• 14:46Speaker 03

  I believe that every heart is kind.

• 14:52Speaker 03

  Some are just a little underused.

• 14:58Speaker 03

  Hatred is a symptom of the times.

• 15:03Speaker 03

  Lost in these uneducated blues.

• 15:09Speaker 03

  I just wanna love you while I can.

• 15:15Speaker 03

  All these other thoughts have me confused. I don't need to try to understand.

• 15:26Speaker 04

  Maybe I'll turn off the fucking news. Turn off the news and build a garden, just my neighborhood and me. We might feel a bit less hardened, we might feel a bit more free. Turn off the news and raise the kids, give them something to believe in. Teach them how to be good people, give them hope that they can see. Hope that they can see. Turn off the news and build a garden with me.

• 16:10Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome.

• 16:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I, you know, I've always felt that way, and I think that there's... Action is so important, being a part of your community, being a part of decisions that are made, I think that's huge. I think local communities are really important, I think local town meetings, understanding where you're going, you know, and understanding where your neighborhood is going, and getting to know your neighbors, because it's really hard to... It's hard to have any hatred when you understand and know your neighbor. You know what I mean? And you know the people that are around you, you know, you know, and so I think that... Yeah, that's kind of where I come from, I just think like, you know, it's important

• 16:55Speaker 03

  to get out there, and I put my... I usually try not to stand on soapboxes, though, you know, man, I put... If I have something to say, I'll put it in my music, you know, and I'll put it out there.

• 17:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the best way to get it to people, anyway.

• 17:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, look at Bob Dylan, Masters of War, I mean, that's the military-industrial complex, right there, that's an incredible song. "Only a pawn in their game" is the history of racism, and how that, you know, started, is a pretty much a controlled political ploy to get the poor blacks and the poor whites to blame each other for everything happening.

• 17:34Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:35Speaker 03

  You know.

• 17:36Joe Rogan?

  You ever hear a Bill Hicks bit about the news?

• 17:38Speaker 03

  I was just listening to Bill Hicks, that's so funny.

• 17:41Joe Rogan?

  He's got that great bit about the news, like, "War, famine, disease, AIDS, you go outside, chirp chirp chirp chirp, where the fuck is all this shit happening? I think Ted Turner's making this shit up, because his wife won't fuck him."

• 17:55Speaker 03

  Well, I, you know, look, I think it's out there.

• 17:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 17:58Speaker 03

  I think it's always been out there, but I think the way to combat it is to build strong local community.

• 18:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:09Speaker 03

  You know, and, and build, you know, that's why I think regenerative, regenerative farming is really important and trying to, and then, you know, voting for people that will support local agriculture and proper, properly grown food and properly, you know, like sourced food and the, the, these things are very important, you know?

• 18:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's certainly important for our community if you know exactly where your food's coming from.

• 18:35Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:35Joe Rogan?

  I think, we're, we're just so, it's not, you know, in the Bill Hicks days, it was just the news. But now, I think the, the real problem that people have today is social media. And, uh, you know, I never, I very rare, if I post things, I just post them and then get out of there. I don't read anything. And I very rarely read social media anymore. And since making that decision to kind of stay away from it, I think occasionally I have to dip in just to see what, what's, because I'm a comedian, it's part of the problem.

• 19:04Speaker 03

  Sure, you gotta know.

• 19:05Joe Rogan?

  And I gotta need to know what people are doing, what, why everyone's so mad, what's happening.

• 19:09Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:10Joe Rogan?

  But, um, there's too many people that are on it all day long, and I think it's poison. I really do. I think it's bad for your mind. I think it, it, uh, generally attracts negativity. I think most of the stuff that people post is negative. And they're complaining all the time and, and, and then that gets into your mind and that gets into your, whatever, you know, your, your headset is, your headspace. And then you start thinking the way these people are thinking and...

• 19:39Speaker 03

  I, I like to be informed on what I'm talking about, you know? I really do, and that takes a lot of time.

• 19:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:45Speaker 03

  It's not something that I can look at something online that comes up and just have an immediate opinion on.

• 19:51Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  And I think that really, I'm just... Like, I, I don't know where I stand on half the issues that are out there because I'm su- I'm, I, you know, I see a lot of, I have to sift through most of the bullshit and find it, like, so really where it ends up happening is, is that by the time I get to the voting booth, I'm hoping that I'm properly informed, you know?

• 20:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's hard to be properly informed because it's hard to know who's telling the truth.

• 20:16Speaker 03

  It is.

• 20:17Joe Rogan?

  Like, if you pay attention to this big, beautiful bill that just got passed, um, I've been trying to sort out what's real and what's not, you know, and the real fear that people have is Medicaid, right? The real fear is that people are gonna lose access to healthcare. And, um, it's so, but then, but then there was this just giant arrest where, uh, they found billions of dollars of fraud and, uh, hundreds of people were arrested. Doctors, healthcare providers, you know about all that, right, Jamie? You saw that big arrest?

• 20:49Joe Rogan?

  It's, uh, you know, so it's like-

• 20:50Speaker 03

  I saw something, but I, you know, I just, I just don't know enough.

• 20:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't know enough either. So they're trying to eliminate fraud as a part of this.

• 20:58Speaker 03

  Right.

• 20:58Joe Rogan?

  But the consequences of that is like, well, okay, but is this gonna affect poor people? Is this gonna affect legitimate poor people that just need help? And that's, to me, that's the most important thing. National healthcare fraud takedown results in three hundred and twenty-four defendants charged in connection with over fourteen billion, fourteen point six billion in fraud.

• 21:19Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 21:19Joe Rogan?

  Largest Justice Department healthcare fraud takedown in history, more than doubles prior record of six billion. Wow.

• 21:27Speaker 03

  That's a government website, right?

• 21:29Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:30Speaker 03

  I don't know. You know, I just, you know, I just don't know. And I don't know enough, and I know that there's probably more to the story than we're seeing.

• 21:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, for sure, right?

• 21:39Speaker 03

  And so, you know, that's kinda how, like, controlled opposition works to, you know, you're just sort of, you know?

• 21:46Joe Rogan?

  Says Medicare Medicaid services also announced successfully prevented over four billion from being paid in response to false and fraudulent claims, and that it suspended or revoked the billing privilege of two hundred and five providers in the month leading up to the takedown, civil charges against twenty defendants for fourteen point two million in alleged fraud, as well as civil settlements with over a hundred and six defendants totaling in thirty-four point three million. Yeah.

• 22:12Speaker 03

  Well, I'll have to do some research.

• 22:13Joe Rogan?

  Or not.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  Well, that's the thing. I'm a musician, man, you know?

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• 23:21Speaker 03

  I do think it's important to know, but at the same time, what I do know is that there's a lot of marginalized communities, whether it's a class issue, or it's a, you know, I just see that there's a lot of people who don't have a lot of money who are suffering.

• 23:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 23:41Speaker 03

  And there's a lot of people getting caught in crossfire all over the world.

• 23:46Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 23:46Speaker 03

  And it's a humanitarian issue, you know?

• 23:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:50Speaker 03

  And I think, you know, and so, you know, as a musician, I have a responsibility to observe. I think as an artist, I have a responsibility to observe.

• 23:59Joe Rogan?

  As a human?

• 24:00Speaker 03

  As a human.

• 24:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think we all have a responsibility to observe.

• 24:03Speaker 03

  And I also don't like to keep my opinion... Resolute. I don't like to identify with my opinion, meaning like, I'm not joining any teams here, you know?

• 24:15Joe Rogan?

  Great.

• 24:16Speaker 03

  I don't have any teams. I wanna know what, what, based on, if I get conflicting information, I have to make a decision on which one's going to sway the decisions I make going forward. You know, it's tough. It's not easy. In this world, it's really not easy. But back in the day, interestingly, I think they had more of an ability to manipulate us back in the day because we only had one or two sources of information.

• 24:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no doubt. No doubt. Well, listen, as confusing and as frustrating as social media is, and as dangerous as it is for your psyche, it's better. It's better to have it than to not have it. Because you don't have to listen to it. You don't have to go on it. And that's what I always tell people, stay off it. But it's there for you if you, like, when shit pops off in the world, it's the best source of information. I Google things all the time, and they're not there, and then I'll go to X, and they're there immediately. When something happens in the world, it's on X before it's on anywhere else.

• 25:20Speaker 03

  Well, there's a lot of platforms, I'm sure, that, yeah, that, that Google is, yeah.

• 25:25Joe Rogan?

  But the thing is, X is immediate, right? It's people that are on the ground, and people that are experi- and independent journalists use it more often than anything else.

• 25:36Speaker 03

  That's interesting.

• 25:37Joe Rogan?

  And Substack.

• 25:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that, you know, I think the only thing that, that I think I worry about with, with that is that the pendulum swings so far in either direction in response to certain things.

• 25:50Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  In response to perceived censorship in one way, then it becomes, the, the, it, instead of it being completely a platform of opinions, it, you know, then censorship happens on that side with dissenting opinions, you know? And so I think that the censorship just continues to be like, okay, well, it, it, it just goes back and forth. And so I, I, I have a hard time. I have a hard time understanding and that's why I don't really feel like I have an ability to form a proper opinion on a lot of this shit.

• 26:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's an intelligent perspective because the reality is so many people that have really strong opinions aren't informed.

• 26:28Speaker 03

  Well, that's the thing and I see people that die on certain hills and then, you know, but with no ability to formulate, like, that's why I'm a musician. That's why I do what I do here because I, you know, all I do is, you know, I, I err on the side of compassion. And I think, you know, I'm compassionate for people who are suffering. I, you know, I have compassion for suffering. I, I believe that, I believe that empathy can be manipulated, but I don't believe that it's, I think it's a necessary emotion.

• 27:01Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 27:02Speaker 03

  For cooperation and human condition.

• 27:04Joe Rogan?

  That's a great, great way to put it.

• 27:06Speaker 03

  You know.

• 27:06Joe Rogan?

  Because empathy can be manipulated.

• 27:08Speaker 03

  It can be manipulated through psychological warfare, but I also believe that it's, it's never a good idea to then.

• 27:14Joe Rogan?

  Shut it off.

• 27:15Speaker 03

  Shut it off.

• 27:15Joe Rogan?

  One hundred percent. Well said.

• 27:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's a really good perspective.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  And I also always say this, like, I think

• 27:24Speaker 03

  throughout history, there have been examples where people have put their faith in policy over character.

• 27:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:33Speaker 03

  And I think that's a mistake. I think the character of the person implementing the policy is just as important as the policy they represent.

• 27:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, you know, and today, nothing gets implemented. No, there's no policy that gets drafted or implemented without a lot of weird influence.

• 27:50Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:51Joe Rogan?

  Influence from money. It's always money.

• 27:53Speaker 03

  And I have no idea the depth of that. So, so where am I, where am I, you know, where am I, uh, where am I? My truth lies in compassion.

• 28:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 28:04Speaker 03

  And in trying to reach the hearts of people. And through music. Darryl Da- do you know Darryl Davis?

• 28:10Joe Rogan?

  Sure, I've had him on a couple of times.

• 28:11Speaker 03

  Oh my god.

• 28:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's great. He's amazing.

• 28:13Speaker 03

  He's a hero of mine.

• 28:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's an amazing person.

• 28:15Speaker 03

  What a fearless person to be able to go and sit down with these people and change their hearts.

• 28:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, hundreds of them.

• 28:22Speaker 03

  Hundreds of them, collecting.

• 28:23Joe Rogan?

  One on- let's tell people what he does. So Darryl's a musician and Darryl, uh, through the course of his travels, met the- it started, he told me the whole story. The first guy he met, he didn't really believe him, that the guy was actually in the KKK. Darryl's a black man. And so this guy pulls out his KKK membership card, or whatever the fuck it is, right? And, uh, he couldn't believe it. And he's like, well, you're not like the other ones. And he's like, well, what do you mean? Do you know everyone that's black? Like, what is this? And so he becomes friends with this guy, has dinner at his house. And then the guy gives him, over the course of their friendship, gives him his robe. He says, I quit, man. I'm, I, I, obviously what I'm doing is wrong, because you're my best friend.

• 29:04Joe Rogan?

  You know, like, I, I love you. And so it, it can't be true that the black man is my enemy if you are such a cool person.

• 29:11Speaker 03

  Yes. And humans must be allowed to grow.

• 29:14Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 29:15Speaker 03

  You know, we, we have to be, we have to allow people who have made mistakes in their past to we have to suspend judgment enough to allow that person to, to grow.

• 29:28Joe Rogan?

  No question.

• 29:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:29Joe Rogan?

  Because you have to understand, like, what influences was this, was this guy subject to that led him to join the KKK in the first place?

• 29:36Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 29:37Joe Rogan?

  Like, what was the community that he was in? What, what had be he been exposed to? Obviously, he had never been exposed to anybody like Darryl before he met him. So he meets Darryl and then changes his ways. Well, who knows? If that guy grew up with cool parents in a different community, he would have been a different person.

• 29:53Speaker 03

  Hundred percent. We're a products of how we, we were brought up.

• 29:56Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 29:57Speaker 03

  For the most part.

• 29:58Joe Rogan?

  Our life experiences and what we've learned and the paths we've taken. Yeah.

• 30:02Speaker 03

  And, you know, and you know, there's a lot of

• 30:06Speaker 03

  there's a lot of that going on. I mean, I'm from Texas and I've toured the South and I know how that is. And there's a lot of people that grow up being indoctrinated.

• 30:15Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 30:15Speaker 03

  And, and, and with really not, not good ideas.

• 30:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 30:21Speaker 03

  But they don't know until they're able to. That's what I was saying earlier about, you know, that's what music does. I love, a great example is Paul Simon.

• 30:33Speaker 03

  Played a show in South Africa just after apartheid. He, when he did the Graceland album, right? He went down there and he worked with local African musicians and created, in my opinion, one of the greatest albums of all time. I mean, with Lady Smith Black Mombazo doing the vocals on that. Vincent Ngueni, the most incredible musicians. And at the time, that was a culturally powerful thing because there's a show online. You can watch it. There's, there's a, you should probably pull it up. There's, it's amazing. There's like Paul Simon playing for tens of thousands of black and white people in,

• 31:18Speaker 03

  right after apartheid ends. Or it might even be during apartheid. And they're all dancing and bobbing up and down. It's the most joyful thing ever. Music is powerful. It can bring people together. But because what it does is it reaches everybody's heart and it cuts through all the bullshit, the mind stuff, you know? And it, and everyone can relate to having their heart broken. You know, maybe it happened for some at a young age. Maybe it happened, maybe, maybe some people had their heart broken at age four to the point where they closed their hearts off nearly completely. But even Darth Vader had a little bit. You know what I mean? Darth Vader, no, everyone forgets that Darth Vader at the end of Star Wars. Yeah. Redemed himself.

• 32:03Speaker 03

  It's, it's the Carl Jung, the archetype, right? The, the dark knight of the soul and then being able to come through that. Yeah. And like, and really like, you know, and, and you, you can judge, you can not want to be around, like, I think Carl Jung actually talks about, like, there are certain people and things that you can't allow to exist because. They're dangerous to everyone else, but at the same time, you don't have to judge their humanity.

• 32:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 32:30Speaker 03

  You just like, it's like a wasp. You have to swat the wasp because it's gonna sting you. But you know, or, or, you know, however you feel about that, you can put it outside, but you get it away, right?

• 32:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 32:40Speaker 03

  You know, but you don't, you don't call the wasp evil.

• 32:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 32:44Speaker 03

  There, there are people that have just been corrupted for whatever reasons to the point where you just need to remove them from the situation, but I don't, I try not to have hatred towards that. I just, I just sort of understand that they are where they are in their lives and they, they got there for some reason.

• 33:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a cautionary tale for everyone.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:03Joe Rogan?

  That, that's the thing about today's access to information is you could see so many different cautionary tales. You could see so many different people that went down the absolute wrong road.

• 33:13Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:14Joe Rogan?

  And you get to see them and you get to shine a light on them in this very strange time. You get to see, like this, this is, you could have been that person. Anybody could have been that person.

• 33:26Speaker 03

  So easily.

• 33:27Joe Rogan?

  We're, we're, we're, we have so many similarities. All of us do.

• 33:32Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 33:32Joe Rogan?

  And we have to recognize that your unique situation in life, your unique community, family, life experiences, all the things you've gone through that made you who you are today.

• 33:44Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:45Joe Rogan?

  Didn't have to be that way. You, you could have been in the worst circumstances. And there's people that are in the worst circumstances and, and they're a product of that. And that's the, the weirdness of life. There's not necessarily good and evil. There's good and evil results.

• 34:02Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:02Joe Rogan?

  But humans inherently.

• 34:05Speaker 03

  We have both inside.

• 34:07Joe Rogan?

  We have both inside.

• 34:07Speaker 03

  We're the yin and the yang.

• 34:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 34:09Speaker 03

  You know?

• 34:10Joe Rogan?

  I think you need that unfortunately too. We need to know that. It exists.

• 34:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:15Joe Rogan?

  In order to grow.

• 34:16Speaker 03

  When people, you know, ask, you know, and I'm a very lucky human, so like, I, I say all these things with a, hopefully the right perspective that I am

• 34:31Speaker 03

  as far as, I'm in like the top 1% of the luckiest people, or probably even the higher than that. You know, with access to clean water. I don't have to worry about when I'm pulled over being shot. I don't, you know, there's, there's not, I, there are a lot of things that I can be very grateful for. And so when I make. Comments about these things, you know, I can only come from my own perspective.

• 34:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, of course.

• 34:57Speaker 03

  But I do believe that we all have the light and the dark inside us. Uh, like the, the story of the, the wolf, you know, the story of the two wolves inside of us. And the, and you know, which one survives is the one you feed.

• 35:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 35:11Speaker 03

  You have the light wolf and the dark wolf.

• 35:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:14Speaker 03

  And they, and you just constantly make decisions in order to feed the right wolf over time. And some people get lost and they start feeding the wrong wolf. And I, I feel like I've been there before too, you know, I've gone through darkness and come out the other side. You know, in my own way, in my own, you know, uh, in my own experience, you know, in my own pain, in my own heart. You know, uh, you know, I, I think the one, that's why I believe it's so important to reach people's hearts. And why music is so powerful.

• 35:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:45Speaker 03

  We all have a heart, you know, uh, just regarding certain sociopathic people.

• 35:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:51Speaker 03

  We, we all, for the most part.

• 35:54Joe Rogan?

  For the most part.

• 35:54Speaker 03

  We all have.

• 35:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 03

  A heart and it's, and, and, and so that's where you reach, you know? And I think sociopaths, you know, that's on a spectrum too, is what we're hearing. You know what I mean? So you have people who can learn sociopathic behavior, but aren't necessarily devoid of feeling.

• 36:10Joe Rogan?

  Right, there's people that become sociopaths or survive, I bet.

• 36:12Speaker 03

  Exactly. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

• 36:14Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure.

• 36:15Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 36:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, it's, um, it's not that clear cut and, you know, to, to demonize people is, that's a, the instinct, right? That's, that's how wars get started. We other, uh, an entire group of humans, they're the other.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 36:31Joe Rogan?

  You know, and I think this is tribal society behavior that developed. Because at one point in time, when you saw someone from another tribe that was invading, they were coming to steal your resources and kill people.

• 36:45Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 36:45Joe Rogan?

  And that's what people did.

• 36:47Speaker 03

  And, and again. That also, there's an exception to that in the sense that like, for example, in Germany, you know, there were, there were clear-cut decisions that people had to make about survival and about, you know, like, I'm sorry, but the Nazis had to go.

• 37:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 37:07Speaker 03

  You know, we can't, we can't just say that, you know.

• 37:10Joe Rogan?

  They're good people, everyone's the same.

• 37:12Speaker 03

  No, you know, they're, they're so far gone.

• 37:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 37:15Speaker 03

  That they just have to go.

• 37:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 37:17Speaker 03

  And that's, there are certain, you know, examples of that, so it's not like you're, you don't, you don't have to forgive people, you just have to understand them, I think.

• 37:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what, that's why people call that the last great war, or the real war.

• 37:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 37:30Joe Rogan?

  You know, because it's like, there was like such a clear-cut case of good and evil.

• 37:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's, I mean, look, the, I think the military-industrial complex has been around since even before then, but.

• 37:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, for sure. Well, Smedley Butler wrote about it in 1933.

• 37:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 37:47Speaker 03

  So anyways, that's where, that's where Bob Dylan comes in, you know, masters of war, you know, you know. Look, man, I'm, again.

• 37:54Joe Rogan?

  That's also why mushrooms are illegal.

• 37:56Speaker 03

  Is it really?

• 37:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, mushrooms were made illegal during the Nixon administration because they wanted to figure out a way to stop the anti-war protests.

• 38:04Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 38:05Joe Rogan?

  They wanted to figure out a way, they, they turned everything Schedule One. They took all the psychedelics and lumped them into a Schedule One because they wanted to go after civil rights activists and anti-war activists.

• 38:15Speaker 03

  Right.

• 38:16Joe Rogan?

  That was the main reason, like, this is the best way to lock these people up.

• 38:19Speaker 03

  Hmm. Well, and interestingly, yeah, I mean, I think that, that, you know, right, because the thing is, is that there's, there are a lot of studies like about marijuana now that say, okay, it could be harmful, right, that come out. But then at the same time, there, the way that those, that that's harmful and then the, you know, comparatively to the other things that are legal.

• 38:45Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:46Speaker 03

  And allowed to just propagate.

• 38:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like whiskey.

• 38:48Speaker 03

  Or cigarettes, you know, like, I mean, like, you have. There's obviously a bias against and that you can see clearly and obviously it came from this.

• 39:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also who's funding these studies?

• 39:04Speaker 03

  Right.

• 39:04Joe Rogan?

  And what did they look for when they're funding these studies? And did they have, it was their bias attached to these studies? Like, what does this mean? You know, like, I know a lot of people who use marijuana, it's not harmful to them at all. So like, did you include those people in that study? Like, and then I know people that use marijuana and it really does over, it consumes their life. They overindulge.

• 39:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had to stop.

• 39:28Joe Rogan?

  What was happening with you with it?

• 39:30Speaker 03

  Well, I had to stop for many reasons. I wanted to be clear-headed. I started exercising a lot, you know, I got my whoop. You know, I got my whoop right here. You know, I started tracking my sleep. And I, funny enough, the sleep is really what got me the most because every time I'd take a hit or take one drink, my sleep would go to shit.

• 39:57Joe Rogan?

  It's amazing when you look at the results.

• 39:58Speaker 03

  Oh, my God, it was intense. And so, and you know, I started working out heavy and I really, I had a lot of great, like, you know, I have a, you know, a high, good engine, you know, I'm VO2 and like, I was like, you know, I really started to feel like an athlete again and so I feel, I started to feel great. I started to get addicted to the high that I would get saying no, of being proud of myself.

• 40:24Joe Rogan?

  Having discipline.

• 40:25Speaker 03

  And having the discipline. I love the high that I get from exercising discipline. I'm addicted to that.

• 40:33Joe Rogan?

  That's a good thing to be addicted to.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  Totally, right? You get addicted to that feeling that you get that's like.

• 40:38Joe Rogan?

  Self-improvement.

• 40:39Speaker 03

  You know, like Goggins, he talks about, you know, all carrot, no stick, right? Or all stick, no carrot, can't remember which one it is. Right? But the thing is, is that for me, the reward is the high that I get from having discipline.

• 40:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 40:54Speaker 03

  And I get a, it's a dopamine hit, you know? And it's, it's just vastly more rewarding than, than whatever temporary thing I'll get from having a drink. I don't know, like, like drinking that much. But smoking weed was cool because it put me into a very, like, creative spot and kind of gave me this surge of inspiration, if you will. But it's bad for my lungs and.

• 41:19Speaker 03

  There were a lot of ups and downs emotionally. I'd get high and I'd get low and I'd get high and I'd get low. And, and, and, and now this clarity, you know, that I have is just, it's incredible. You know, I just, it's just this steady, you know, uh, it's this steady sort of joy. You know, that I, I had, I mean, cause I had to face myself too. When you get clear, you have to, things come up. And then you look at them and you're like, and things that maybe you didn't wanna look at before, you know?

• 41:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:47Speaker 03

  Habits that you had or, or things in your past that you have to forgive yourself for, that you didn't really, they're like floating in the back of your mind is unfinished thoughts. And so with, without it, all of that masking, I was able to sit and, I mean, look, I was able to sit and write this record, which is the clea- most clear album I've ever, you know, it, it, I wanted to know who I was throughout,

• 42:14Speaker 03

  throughout the, it without all the, you know, I didn't, I didn't wanna chase a, a six-minute guitar solo. I didn't wanna chase, I didn't, I wanted to just figure out who I was. Stripped away from all that. It's funny, there's this guy, Marcus Dowling, he's a, um, works, writes for The Tennessean and I was sitting, talking to him in Nashville. And he was, he said that when I put, he, he had a, he was ready to listen to my record and he was about to have a whiskey. And he first, the first song comes up and he puts his whiskey down. He's like, oh, I, I don't wanna drink for this. And I think that music puts you in the state of mind that the artist is in when they recorded it or when they wrote it.

• 42:53Speaker 03

  So this, this, it's, it's kind of almost like interesting that he decided to put his drink down when he heard this album, like the first song. Because like, that's where I'm at, you know? And so I, I wonder if there's that feeling of like, this kinda like, it's less of a jam band thing, more of just like straight songs and.

• 43:11Joe Rogan?

  There's probably definitely something to that, cause I think that's something that happens when someone's on stage performing. It's like you let them take over your mind.

• 43:19Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:20Joe Rogan?

  You know, you let the music, the song.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  It's like creating a holographic bubble that you're all participating in this.

• 43:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 43:28Speaker 03

  This sort of vibe, yeah. And it's, I mean, you were there at the McConaughey thing, which it was an electric feeling, right?

• 43:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was pretty wild.

• 43:37Speaker 03

  It was wild.

• 43:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was awesome.

• 43:39Speaker 03

  And I felt like. You know, it was cool to see everyone there and it's like, you know, it it just felt.

• 43:45Joe Rogan?

  There's also like the added thing to that, that, you know, they do that every year and it's a charity.

• 43:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:51Joe Rogan?

  And all the money goes to good.

• 43:53Speaker 03

  You're giving back.

• 43:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 43:54Speaker 03

  And a lot of charities, right? There's like five different charities that they were giving to with McConaughey's. He's a, he's a good guy.

• 44:00Joe Rogan?

  He's a great guy.

• 44:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:01Joe Rogan?

  He's a great guy. He's a very wise man.

• 44:04Speaker 03

  He is a wise man.

• 44:04Joe Rogan?

  Especially for someone who's an actor, you know?

• 44:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:07Joe Rogan?

  A lot of them, and that's again, that's a thing that I I have to get over. Cause I was around so many of them in LA that were fools. That I I just immediately associate acting with like these empty vessels.

• 44:20Speaker 03

  Right.

• 44:20Joe Rogan?

  That are just struggling for attention.

• 44:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:24Joe Rogan?

  And trying to say the things that they think will get them.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 44:29Joe Rogan?

  The best spot.

• 44:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. I I I think that, look, I mean, to become an entertainer, there's a level of,

• 44:39Speaker 03

  you know, self-absorption, you you you like, you know, that you have to sort of like accept, alright, I got a big ego. Now can I keep my ego in check for my whole life? Like I think my dad has, you know?

• 44:51Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 44:52Speaker 03

  I mean, I see my dad as a great example. I see Paul Simon as a great example.

• 44:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 44:56Speaker 03

  I see, you know, um, Neil, and you know, I see these people that like, that they're just, they're just artists through and through, you know what I mean?

• 45:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 45:05Speaker 03

  And and, you know, for for better or worse, not perfect people, but they are who they are and they, uh, for the most part, I know my dad

• 45:15Speaker 03

  has an ego, but he, he has a good relationship with it. Because the ego is just the representation of who we are to the rest of the world, you know?

• 45:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, everyone has an ego.

• 45:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, we all do.

• 45:24Joe Rogan?

  And the struggle with the ego is just like the struggle of with good and evil. I think, I think part of it is necessary for you to overcome.

• 45:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:32Joe Rogan?

  You need that.

• 45:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:33Joe Rogan?

  You need those, and you also need to see people fall prey to it. You know, and we see that a lot.

• 45:39Speaker 03

  Wren, there's an artist named Wren.

• 45:41Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 45:42Speaker 03

  Oh, man, you'd love, you'd love his work. He's like a, he plays guitar and he sings amazing.

• 45:48Joe Rogan?

  Spell it.

• 45:49Speaker 03

  W E N.

• 45:49Joe Rogan?

  R E N?

• 45:50Speaker 03

  He's from England, or he's from Wales, he's Welsh.

• 45:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 45:53Speaker 03

  And he's, yeah, this guy.

• 45:55Joe Rogan?

  That dude.

• 45:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, so he's got a, a song called.

• 45:58Joe Rogan?

  Listen to some of this.

• 45:58Speaker 03

  High Wren, listen to High Wren.

• 46:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is the one.

• 46:01Joe Rogan?

  Here, put, put the headphones on.

• 46:03Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 46:03Speaker 00

  I've seen him for a while. He's like a, he started as a busker.

• 46:06Speaker 03

  Right?

• 46:06Joe Rogan?

  Ah, one of them dudes at the like subway station?

• 46:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:14Speaker 03

  This is a crazy song. It's about communicating with your ego.

• 46:18Joe Rogan?

  What a weird fucking start to a video. A guy with a pig mask on?

• 46:22Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 46:22Joe Rogan?

  Hi, Ren.

• 47:26Speaker 05

  Hi there, Ren. It's been a little while. Did you miss me? You thought you'd bury me, didn't you? Risky, 'cause I always come back. Deep down, you know that. Deep down, you know I'm always in periphery. Ren, aren't you pleased to see me? It's been weeks since we spoke, bro. I know you need me. You're the sheep, I'm the shepherd. Not your place to lead me. Not your place to be batting off a hand that feeds me. Hi, Ren. I've been taking some time to be distant. I've been taking some time to be still. I've been taking some time to be by myself since my therapist told me I'm ill. And I've been making some progress lately. And I've learned some new coping skills. So I haven't really needed you much, man. I think we need to just step back and chill. Ren, you sound what we're saying than I do. You think that those doctors are really there to guide you? Been through this a million times, or civilian mind is so perfect. Always being lied to. Okay, take another pill, boy.

• 48:11Speaker 05

  drown yourself in the sound of white noise. Follow this 10-step program. Rejoice, all your problems will be gone. Fucking dumb boy. Nah, mate. This time is different, man, trust me. I feel like things might be falling in place.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  Right, and he just has a whole conversation with his own...

• 48:26Speaker 03

  Mind, you know, his own ego.

• 48:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 48:28Speaker 03

  And it, and it tries to tell him, you know, that he's not worth shit. And then he's like, no, wait, I'm getting myself together. And this whole conversation with him, with, and then at the end, it talks about

• 48:40Speaker 03

  where good and evil isn't a battle, it's a dance. And no one ever wins.

• 48:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 48:47Speaker 03

  You know, with their battle with their ego. It, it's always just a dance and it's always just kind of finding balance, you know? And there's a song I have on my album called All God Did. And it's, it's actually the same concept. So, and I wrote it before I heard that, but then when I heard that, I was like, oh shit, that's way better.

• 49:03Speaker 03

  But, you know, but it's great, you know? And it's super, it's, it's beautifully written. I mean, you know, it, it's very, you could tell all his influences, um, um, and then he just kind of adds on to that, which is.

• 49:14Joe Rogan?

  That dance is critical. You need that dance. That dance is, I, I think this is one of the problems of people that don't exercise. I think the struggle of exercise is oftentimes conflated with vanity.

• 49:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:28Joe Rogan?

  And, uh, I don't think it's that. I think you, you can keep your body covered up to the end of time and never be proud of it. And you will benefit greatly from the struggle of exercise. Cause I think the struggle of exercise is, is mental.

• 49:42Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 49:42Joe Rogan?

  As much as it is physical, there's a dance. That, that's like, when I talked to Goggins about it, like he's the most bizarre of all cases. Because he's doing it all in silence. He's doing it all by himself. And occasionally he lets people peer into it, but it's, it's going on right now. Like right now, that guy is out there running probably 30 miles today.

• 50:04Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 50:05Joe Rogan?

  With destroyed knees.

• 50:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:06Joe Rogan?

  Like he's a, he's a real freak. And when I talked to him about it, he's like, I'm downloading knowledge.

• 50:11Speaker 03

  Hmm. Yeah.

• 50:12Joe Rogan?

  That's what he says.

• 50:12Speaker 03

  That's great.

• 50:13Joe Rogan?

  He's like, I'm in the lab and I'm downloading knowledge. Like he's struggling in his own mind every day and forcing himself to do it every day.

• 50:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:21Joe Rogan?

  And then he brings elite athletes to try to keep up with him occasionally. Like he brought Is- Israel Adesanya. Israel Adesanya is former UFC middleweight champion, like one of the best fighters of all time. And you realize like, he can't even keep up with Dave, not even close. This is one of multiple workouts that Dave is doing in a day.

• 50:41Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 50:41Joe Rogan?

  And this guy can keep, can't keep up with him and Dave's 50.

• 50:46Speaker 03

  What was the part of the brain that gets enlarged that Huberman was talking about that gets enlarged when you do things you don't want to do?

• 50:55Joe Rogan?

  I always forget the name of it, but Jamie will pull it up.

• 50:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, the anterior mid.

• 51:00Joe Rogan?

  They should be like an easier name.

• 51:05Speaker 03

  Cortex anterior or something like that.

• 51:08Joe Rogan?

  The discipline part.

• 51:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, the discipline that enlarges throughout your life when you do things that you force yourself to do.

• 51:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it literally does. It literally gets bigger, which is crazy.

• 51:17Speaker 03

  You know, being so.

• 51:19Joe Rogan?

  What is it, Jamie?

• 51:21Speaker 03

  Anterior midcignular cortex.

• 51:23Joe Rogan?

  You got it. Ha, nice. Success.

• 51:27Speaker 06

  Midcignulate.

• 51:28Speaker 03

  Midcignulate.

• 51:29Joe Rogan?

  Midcignulate cortex, yeah.

• 51:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:31Joe Rogan?

  Shout out to Andrew Huberman.

• 51:32Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 51:33Joe Rogan?

  Um, doing things you don't want to do can strengthen your brain, particularly the anterior midcignulate cortex, which is associated with willpower and tenacity. That's incredible that it actually grows. You know, so willpower is not just a, it's not like an airy fairy concept. It's like a muscle.

• 51:51Speaker 03

  Hmm, no, it's.

• 51:52Joe Rogan?

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• 52:37Joe Rogan?

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• 53:19Joe Rogan?

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• 54:03Joe Rogan?

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• 54:14Speaker 03

  Incredible that willpower can be, also can be enhanced.

• 54:19Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 54:20Speaker 03

  That that's, it just goes to brain plasticity, and that's a concept that I think a lot of people don't understand, is that we are not set in who we are. We are, especially if we adopt a growth mindset. That we are never set in who we are. We can always improve.

• 54:46Speaker 03

  And refine the neural structure of our brain to where that it works more efficiently.

• 54:52Joe Rogan?

  Not just that, but you have to.

• 54:54Speaker 03

  Right.

• 54:55Joe Rogan?

  There's, it never ends. Like, there's never a time when you're done with discipline. It's not, you don't just get it and now I have discipline. No, every day is a struggle.

• 55:03Speaker 03

  Whoa.

• 55:03Joe Rogan?

  Goggins said that, he goes, "Sometimes I stare at my sneakers for like a half hour before I put those motherfuckers on."

• 55:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, at like four in the morning, you know, every day. But here's the thing, is that it becomes a philosophical question, because when you say you have to, I'm, you know, there are people who get by life, you know, and they, uh, there is a Tibetan tradition in the, that the monks do, where they spend months and they take these little like flute things and they, and they have colored sand, right? And they all sit in a circle. And it takes them months sometimes to create this beautiful intricate sand art. And they chant while they do it, and it's this most incredible thing. And at the end, they go, "Phew, phew," and they blow it all away.

• 55:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 55:49Speaker 03

  And, and it's meant to represent the impermanence of life. But then it's meant to also pose the question, why make something so beautiful when it's going to be, when you know it's impermanent? And I believe it goes back to the first thing we started talking about today, which is that meaning is everything in life. And nothing really in life inherently has any meaning, except the meaning we give it, right?

• 56:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 56:16Speaker 03

  So you could go, you could like go through life as sand on the beach that blows in the wind and you, you know, you, no one, you, you, you wouldn't, it wouldn't really mean much when you blow one way or another.

• 56:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 56:30Speaker 03

  But if you choose to give your life meaning and build a sand castle and make it as intricate and beautiful as you can and make it like, you know, as detailed as possible, knowing that one day it's gonna get washed away.

• 56:44Speaker 03

  At it, it, the only person that it, it matters to is you in knowing that you did the best you could at that moment that the wave comes.

• 56:53Joe Rogan?

  If that's true, they should never let anybody film them making those things.

• 56:57Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 56:57Joe Rogan?

  They should never let anyone film them making those things. Because then it becomes permanent. Someone can see it forever.

• 57:06Speaker 03

  Sure, but.

• 57:08Joe Rogan?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 57:08Speaker 03

  But yeah, again, I think it's for them anyways.

• 57:11Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 57:12Speaker 03

  It's not for everyone else.

• 57:13Joe Rogan?

  But like when you let people peer into that world and you film it, there's, there's something about that like, oh, you just cheated it.

• 57:20Speaker 03

  Well, in a way it becomes permanent, but it also. I mean, is, you know, just because you see it happening.

• 57:27Joe Rogan?

  Let's look at it. Can you find that?

• 57:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm sure you could find it on there.

• 57:30Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I'm not dismissing it.

• 57:31Speaker 03

  No, no, I think, but I think it's an, it's an interesting question because something that lives in our subjective reality, if you see a video of that happening.

• 57:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 57:40Speaker 03

  And then you grasp the concept of it, and then that makes you consider that concept in yourself. Understanding that, you know, that, that the meaning is a subjective experience anyways.

• 57:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 57:54Speaker 03

  Then now you understand like, okay, what you, you, it, it just causes one to ask the question to themselves. And I think that's the purpose that the monks are, you know, they're, they're there as sort of like, in a way, they're teachers, you know?

• 58:06Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:06Speaker 03

  So they show you something that like, then you ask, you know, inside.

• 58:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so the, what you were saying was that in response to the idea that everyone should exercise and, and.

• 58:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, sorry, yeah. Yeah, well, but it, it's like you don't have to do that, but your life will have, you will experience a, a, a different sense of meaning.

• 58:27Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 58:27Speaker 03

  You know, if you do that, and that will, I think that's enough for me at least. Because I'm driven by finding a sense of meaning, and I think maybe because of how I grew up, you know? Maybe others aren't driven by that, you know?

• 58:42Joe Rogan?

  I think that's really important to say too.

• 58:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:43Joe Rogan?

  Because you never know, like, what, what is driving one.

• 58:47Speaker 03

  Right.

• 58:47Joe Rogan?

  I don't know how your brain works.

• 58:49Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 58:49Joe Rogan?

  I could only guess.

• 58:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:51Joe Rogan?

  I could only assume your brain works like mine.

• 58:53Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 58:53Joe Rogan?

  And that's silly. That's a silly thing to assume.

• 58:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, we don't even know if we see the same colors.

• 58:58Joe Rogan?

  Right. Oh, wow, that's so beautiful.

• 59:02Speaker 03

  Isn't it?

• 59:03Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing. And then they're gonna fuck that up.

• 59:09Joe Rogan?

  I wrote a piece once for, God, it was Esquire or Maxim, one of those things, about your body's like a sandcastle.

• 59:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:17Joe Rogan?

  That you're, you're building this body, but one day it will be eroded. Now they're just sweeping it away.

• 59:23Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 59:24Speaker 03

  And then they're like, well, they're like dump the sand in the river or something.

• 59:27Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it? It's kind of abstract as they swirl it. It's kind of beautiful, too.

• 59:31Speaker 03

  Yeah. Think about how long that took them.

• 59:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God, it must've taken forever. And they're scooping the sand up.

• 59:36Speaker 03

  They scoop it up.

• 59:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, look, they're just doing it with like these little things.

• 59:39Speaker 03

  They just tap on it, like, look at that.

• 59:41Joe Rogan?

  Wow, that's beautiful.

• 59:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:44Joe Rogan?

  That's kind of amazing.

• 59:45Speaker 03

  I've, I've always loved this, that concept, right?

• 59:48Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:49Speaker 03

  And I think that, you know, yeah, maybe they shouldn't let you film it for them. I don't know, though. I'm like, I'm glad they did.

• 59:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, they're letting people watch it.

• 59:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:58Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, just allowing people to see what the whole thing is. And it'll allow more people to understand the concept.

• 1:00:05Speaker 03

  Well, that's kind of like Alan Watts, like always says, you know, "Don't listen to what I'm saying."

• 1:00:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:00:11Speaker 03

  "Because the Tao that can be spoken is not the real Tao."

• 1:00:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:00:14Speaker 03

  "And yet here I am, just loving the sound of my own voice and talking about it." You know what I mean? And like, you know, so it's like, you know, that's, that's, that's the great paradox of the spiritual self and understanding what that means, you know?

• 1:00:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's, that becomes readily apparent after you have a psychedelic experience. I remember one of my first ones that I had, I realized when I was trying to describe it, like, I'm trying to impress people with the way I use my words. I was very aware.

• 1:00:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:42Joe Rogan?

  I was like, oh, I'm trying to impress people with my grasp of language that I'm using to describe an experience.

• 1:00:49Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:00:49Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, oh, that's kind of gross.

• 1:00:52Speaker 03

  One of the great, of course, actually, when I started listening to you, it was in like twenty, 2007, 2006, and, um...

• 1:01:04Speaker 03

  It was, uh, I was listening to a lot of Terrence McKenna. At the time, and Terrence McKenna, talk about someone who had a grasp on the English.

• 1:01:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, oh, he was amazing.

• 1:01:13Speaker 03

  What an incredible.

• 1:01:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:15Speaker 03

  Like, I'd listen to his lectures, you know, that were available online.

• 1:01:18Joe Rogan?

  Psychedelic Salon is the best resource. That's still up, right? Lorenzo from Psychedelic Salon, who had been on the podcast before, back in the day. He's collected like the greatest assembly of McKenna, Alan Watts, Timothy Leary.

• 1:01:34Speaker 03

  Ram Dass, probably.

• 1:01:35Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:01:36Speaker 03

  There's a Ram Dass conversation, I think, with Alan Watts.

• 1:01:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:01:41Speaker 03

  Somewhere out there, which is really interesting.

• 1:01:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, my friend Duncan became friends with Ram Dass.

• 1:01:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I actually met him in Hawaii one time.

• 1:01:48Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:01:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I got to meet him.

• 1:01:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Psychedelic Salon. So, it is psychedelicsalon.com, and there's Lorenzo. And Psychedelic Salon is like this incredible resource of all the McKenna lectures. He's, I mean, he has, because it's such a great resource, so many people who were there at like, you know, some talk that he gave in Hawaii at some conference room somewhere, recorded it, and then they would send that to Lorenzo. And then he'd put it online and have it available for everybody. And, you know, some amazing.

• 1:02:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:25Joe Rogan?

  Insights and conversations.

• 1:02:28Speaker 03

  He, he lived not too far from where I live in Maui.

• 1:02:34Speaker 03

  So, I went on a whale watch with him one time.

• 1:02:36Joe Rogan?

  Really? With McKenna?

• 1:02:38Speaker 03

  No, with Ram Dass.

• 1:02:39Joe Rogan?

  With Ram Dass? Oh, okay, okay.

• 1:02:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, but not, no, McKenna. I think McKenna died in, when I was a kid, like, really early.

• 1:02:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think he died.

• 1:02:48Speaker 03

  Like, ninety-five or something?

• 1:02:49Joe Rogan?

  No, it was a little later than that. Um, when, what year did McKenna die?

• 1:02:57Speaker 03

  You're Jamie, right?

• 1:02:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:58Speaker 03

  Jamie. April 2000.

• 1:03:00Joe Rogan?

  2000?

• 1:03:01Speaker 03

  I heard you play golf. I do. And you were in a simulator earlier. I was. I was in a simulator last night till like

• 1:03:08Joe Rogan?

  His hands are blistered.

• 1:03:09Speaker 03

  My hands all blistered out. I had that.

• 1:03:11Joe Rogan?

  We were having a conversation while we're getting espresso and I was saying I can't play music. For the same reason I can't play golf.

• 1:03:18Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:03:19Joe Rogan?

  And then he shows me his hands. So he's

• 1:03:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:22Joe Rogan?

  We're all like

• 1:03:23Speaker 03

  And you're like, oh, that's what he was just doing back there.

• 1:03:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Jamie's got this

• 1:03:26Speaker 03

  He's got the bug.

• 1:03:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's got it bad. Well, he wants to fuck his friends up.

• 1:03:30Speaker 03

  It's fun.

• 1:03:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:32Speaker 03

  It is a fun game. It's fun to make people mad.

• 1:03:38Joe Rogan?

  That's a weird motivation, but okay.

• 1:03:40Speaker 03

  Well, you know.

• 1:03:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:42Speaker 03

  There's, it's funny, like

• 1:03:45Speaker 03

  the closest friends we have are sometimes, you know, the ones we give the most shit, though.

• 1:03:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, for sure. Well, they're the ones that know you love them, so you can give them shit.

• 1:03:54Speaker 03

  So you can kinda, yeah.

• 1:03:55Joe Rogan?

  And we can have It's fun.

• 1:03:56Speaker 03

  There's nothing like that feeling of like having a friend that can take it and dole it out.

• 1:04:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's why I love comedians.

• 1:04:03Speaker 03

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:04:05Joe Rogan?

  They're the best, because you shit on them, they love it. They shit on themselves. Everyone's having fun.

• 1:04:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:09Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 1:04:10Speaker 03

  Exactly. That's one of the great joys in life, I think.

• 1:04:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the people that can't take that, boy, you're missing out on a giant chunk of what it means to be a person if you're so sensitive. You can't let people crack on you. Like, that's so silly.

• 1:04:22Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 1:04:24Joe Rogan?

  You're missing out on a lot of the fun. You're missing out on half the laughs. Because half the laughs are at your own expense.

• 1:04:30Speaker 03

  Exactly. I've probably laughed harder at myself than at anyone else in my life, probably.

• 1:04:37Joe Rogan?

  That's a healthy perspective, then. Then you're a fairly healthy person.

• 1:04:40Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, it's funny, you know, we're running around, you know, trying to find meaning in life and, you know, one day, you know, like, one day is a crazy thought, but one day, the last remembrance of the human experience will happen.

• 1:04:57Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:04:58Speaker 03

  You know, and

• 1:04:59Joe Rogan?

  Shit, it might be in our lifetime.

• 1:05:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I doubt it. I think it'll be, I think it'll be, because even now we're uploaded into the AI system, you know? So like, something will survive, you know?

• 1:05:10Joe Rogan?

  Something. Yeah, something, well, whatever we are will lead to whatever comes next.

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  There's a great Episode of Star Trek called The Inner Light. Have you ever seen that? The first Star Trek, the real one? The next generation. Oh, that's bullshit, Star Trek. Whoa.

• 1:05:28Speaker 03

  Whoa. Them's fighting words, man. You're a Picard guy? Hell, yeah, I'm a Picard guy. I'd vote for him right now. That's hilarious. Meanwhile, he probably could win. Diplomacy, man. So this is the Inner Light? The Inner Light. Here's a story. Okay, here's a story. They come across a probe. All right? Mm-hmm. Because they're exploring space. Obviously, if you don't know Star Trek, you're exploring space and the whole... Their whole mission is to go where no man has gone before. Right. And so they find this probe, and as they're scanning the probe, it zaps Picard. And he goes unconscious, and he wakes up in this... On this world where he remembers the spaceship. He remembers where he was. But he's got a wife and a family and kids.

• 1:06:14Speaker 03

  And this world is being threatened by an exploding sun. And so he's got a lot of scientific knowledge, so he, over the next 20 years in this world... Wow. He eventually grows old and accepts his fate, that he has no idea how he got here, but he's got to live this life now. And he starts to love his wife and his kids. He starts to try and save this planet from the exploding sun. He ends up not being able to. And then, as he dies, he wakes up back on the spaceship

• 1:06:46Speaker 03

  with only 20 seconds having gone by on the spaceship. Wow. And the probe was a... Had been sent by that civilization. They knew they were going to be destroyed, so they uploaded this thing that, like, would let Picard experience what happened to their civilization and tell their story. Wow. And he did it, experienced it. He experienced a lifetime of 40 or 25, whatever, years before he died in the span of 20 seconds, and then woke up at the moment of his death in that other life. And then was able to now tell the story of this... Of this forgotten civilization in space. Whoa. It's the coolest concept ever. Okay, I'll have to watch it now. I mean, it's, you know, I just told you, so. Sounds so hard.

• 1:07:35Joe Rogan?

  Do you know who Joseph McGonigal is?

• 1:07:38Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:07:38Joe Rogan?

  Joseph McGonigal was like, um, he was remote viewer number one.

• 1:07:43Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:07:44Joe Rogan?

  He was the first guy. And they gave him an assignment once without him knowing like where he was looking into. And what it turned out that he was looking into Mars one million years ago. And when he looked into Mars a million years ago, Mars was falling apart. And there were beings on Mars that were going into hibernation. They had built pyramids and all these structures. And they had to leave Mars because Mars was being destroyed. Their atmosphere was being destroyed and they had to come to Earth.

• 1:08:22Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:08:22Joe Rogan?

  And what he surmised from that is that what we are is the children of the people of Mars. That's why we're so different from all the other primates.

• 1:08:32Speaker 03

  There's a whole movie dedicated to that exact premise.

• 1:08:35Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:08:36Speaker 03

  Called Mission to Mars.

• 1:08:38Joe Rogan?

  Who's in it?

• 1:08:39Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:08:40Joe Rogan?

  Is it old movie?

• 1:08:40Speaker 03

  Is it Greg Kinnear, maybe?

• 1:08:42Joe Rogan?

  Greg Kinnear?

• 1:08:43Speaker 03

  No, I don't know. Let's, let's look at it because it's like a great movie and it's about that at the end.

• 1:08:47Joe Rogan?

  I might have seen it now that I'm thinking about it.

• 1:08:49Speaker 06

  Gary Sinise and Tim Robbins.

• 1:08:51Speaker 03

  Gary Sinise.

• 1:08:52Joe Rogan?

  What year was this?

• 1:08:53Speaker 06

  Two thousand.

• 1:08:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:55Joe Rogan?

  Okay, I don't, I don't remember if I've seen it.

• 1:08:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, and that's exactly the premise of the entire movie.

• 1:09:02Joe Rogan?

  And so the premise of the movie is that these people?

• 1:09:04Speaker 03

  They go on a mission to Mars. They see like a structure on the surface of Mars, so they go and they check it out.

• 1:09:10Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:09:11Speaker 03

  And then like, that's the whole thing.

• 1:09:14Joe Rogan?

  And they realize that Mars, well, you know, this is not outside of the realm of possibility.

• 1:09:19Speaker 03

  No, not at all.

• 1:09:20Joe Rogan?

  And one of the reasons why I say that is like, they've found recent, they've recently found structures on Mars that are so obviously man-made that it's almost impossible to deny. Like I showed it to Elon and he's like, oh, we should go look at it.

• 1:09:36Speaker 03

  Okay, but here's the thing about like remote.

• 1:09:37Joe Rogan?

  Have you seen that? Do you know what I'm talking about?

• 1:09:39Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:09:39Joe Rogan?

  Show them this, this, the square on Mars. So there's this. In the nineteen seventies, they took satellite photos of what looked like a face on Mars in Sidonia.

• 1:09:51Speaker 03

  I remember.

• 1:09:52Joe Rogan?

  Kind of weird, kind of weird, but it's hard to say if that's like, there's things on earth that look like faces. It is just like, it's just a natural formation.

• 1:10:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:10:00Joe Rogan?

  But then they found this, this is recent, look at that. I mean, what the fuck is that, man? Look at those right angles. Look at that, that's on Mars.

• 1:10:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:12Joe Rogan?

  And

• 1:10:12Speaker 03

  That's interesting.

• 1:10:13Joe Rogan?

  That may have been a structure.

• 1:10:15Speaker 03

  It may have, yeah, I mean, look.

• 1:10:16Joe Rogan?

  It's too complete, it's too square, it's a square.

• 1:10:21Speaker 03

  I mean, look, I wouldn't.

• 1:10:22Joe Rogan?

  It actually might be a rectangle, right? Is it kind of a rectangle?

• 1:10:25Speaker 03

  Well, I don't know, we'd have to measure it, I'm sure they could measure it with, you know, throughout, you know. I just, here's the thing, when I looked up remote viewing, for example, and I really looked and did research on it. The studies that were done, apparent, were kind of discredited about how the effectiveness of those actually were. So if you like, really dive in, there's literature that says that that, that it wasn't really, the reason that they, you know. Apparently, now, this is all like, conflicting information, you know what I mean?

• 1:10:57Joe Rogan?

  I had Hal put off on who was a remote viewer and who's involved in the remote viewer, the Stargate.

• 1:11:03Speaker 03

  Right. So what does he say about the, the idea that like, that, you know, the actual studies were not that like conclusive? And then, you know, that's why they.

• 1:11:11Joe Rogan?

  It depends on who's doing it.

• 1:11:12Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:11:13Joe Rogan?

  Who's doing it, what's the methodology? But they were ever, they were able to accurately find within a small radius, a downed Russian spacecraft. So a Russian spacecraft that re-entered orbit and crashed. It was a spacecraft or an aircraft? Do you remember, Jamie? But they used remote viewers and the Russians couldn't find it and they found it. And this is, you're talking about in like, a vast expanse of wilderness, it could have been anywhere, but they, they found the area where it was. They also found a Russian factory that was making an enormous nuclear submarine. They, they found it, accurately described it, the dimensions of it, they knew where it was, and it was, it was an accurate location.

• 1:11:58Joe Rogan?

  Not just the thing that was being hidden.

• 1:12:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:12:01Joe Rogan?

  But where it was, the dimensions of it. I don't dismiss it.

• 1:12:05Speaker 03

  I, I can't dismiss anything, I just know that like, when I looked up like. UFO experiences and like, you know, this disclosure stuff that's happening lately. And, you know, I mean, I'm a huge, I'm not just a believer, I'm, I'm a, I pray that there is someone out there disarming nuclear missiles as, you know, especially right now, like, you know, my, my great hope is that there is someone just trying to like, you know, not step in, but oversee it to the point where we, hopefully we can survive to a point of, of having an interstellar civilization, you know, would, it would be.

• 1:12:44Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Chime. And I know people don't usually get excited about banking, but Chime is doing something different and it's worth paying attention to. In a recent survey, they ranked the number one choice for new checking accounts in America. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime is fee free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and thousands of fee free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. If you get their Chime card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category you actually pick yourself. Your savings rate, crazy high. It's nine times the national average. They're calling it the most rewarding way to bank.

• 1:13:26Joe Rogan?

  Go to chime.com/rogan. Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank, banking services and Chime card, provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details. This episode is brought to you by Chime. And I know people don't usually get excited about banking, but Chime is doing something different and it's worth paying attention to. In a recent survey, they ranked the number one choice for new checking accounts in America. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime is fee free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and thousands

• 1:14:10Joe Rogan?

  of fee free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. If you get their Chime card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category you actually pick yourself. Your savings rate crazy high. It's nine times the national average. They're calling it the most rewarding way to bank. Go to chime.com/rogan. Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details.

• 1:14:44Speaker 03

  It's the great dream of humanity, right?

• 1:14:46Joe Rogan?

  Sure, but we have to be a different civilization than we are now.

• 1:14:49Speaker 03

  Oh, 100%.

• 1:14:49Joe Rogan?

  Otherwise we're not gonna do the same shit in other places.

• 1:14:51Speaker 03

  That's the thing is that, and that's what I, you know, I was always, even before Elon was as famous as he is now, when I was like 15, I read his book. And the one thing that I, you know, I'm a friend of...

• 1:15:06Joe Rogan?

  What was his book?

• 1:15:07Speaker 03

  He read, it was like a book about him, maybe.

• 1:15:09Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:15:09Speaker 03

  But, and I don't remember. But what I really wanted the focus to be on was, let's put all these resources into getting this planet right first. Let's put everything we have. And, you know, it felt at the time like, okay, well, yes, we're spending all this money to go off and maybe we're hopeless. It's possible that we're hopeless and it sounds like that's where they err on this. You know, it's like, oh, well, humanity on Earth is just, is just over. We just have to go somewhere else. But then if we go somewhere else, we're just gonna do the same thing, like you're saying.

• 1:15:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:45Speaker 03

  So like, all of the resources, in my opinion, should be focused on like, like there's devices that, that, that they, they have invented that can be put in river mouths around the world to filter out pollution and plastics going into the ocean, right? And it's like this incredible technology. If the budgets were spent towards these innovations, you know, and maybe AI will help it. You know, right now, AI is a, is kind of a tax on the planet in terms of like, you know, it's not very good for it. But maybe the AI technology itself will then invent something that makes itself more efficient for the planet.

• 1:16:25Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean by AI as a tax?

• 1:16:27Speaker 03

  Well, because the energy required for the servers and all of that. That is so, is so, you know, it drains a lot of resource.

• 1:16:34Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 1:16:35Speaker 03

  And so, but what AI may do is help us create like an ion battery or something that like, that like makes energy give off less, you know, you can have this much more energy with way less heat and way less, you know, and so then you can create, you know, instead of having to have giant warehouses full of servers, you can have just, you know, us like, I mean, like it's the same stuff that happened with the computer.

• 1:17:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:17:01Speaker 03

  Where the computer required a giant building when it was first created and now you have computers smaller than a.

• 1:17:08Joe Rogan?

  Just to be clear, Elon's position is not that Earth is like, that humans are helpless or hopeless and we have to just leave Earth. It's not that, it's that life is so fragile here because of the possibility, not just of us fucking it up, but of natural disasters and that we need to become interstellar in order to propagate life and to survive. And so we can carry on this

• 1:17:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:33Joe Rogan?

  growth that we're involved in as, as a human species because

• 1:17:37Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:17:38Joe Rogan?

  there's, I mean, they just, what was the number that they just found? A bunch of new asteroids like? The, the possibility of us being hit by a near Earth object is extremely high over the next X amount of hundreds of years. It's extremely high and these things might not wipe everything out, but they'll start civilization all over again. They'll bring us back to cave people. So the idea was that the more places that we are, the more likelihood that the human race survives. It's not just that we're gonna fuck this up.

• 1:18:09Speaker 03

  And I appreciate wanting the human race to survive. Don't get me wrong, you know.

• 1:18:13Joe Rogan?

  But it should be better than it is now.

• 1:18:14Speaker 03

  I, I want, I want us to learn our lessons on this planet.

• 1:18:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:18Speaker 03

  And I think that that's even more important than surviving. I mean, here's the thing, when you ask yourself.

• 1:18:26Speaker 03

  When someone asks themselves, have I lived a life worth living? Is it, is a life worth living someone who lives a very long time? Or is a life worth living someone who's lived a good life and maybe for shorter? So is, what is the ultimate effect that humanity has on the natural world and environment? Are we, do we deserve to be spacefaring? And if we do, then I say, let's go. But I mean, I think-

• 1:18:56Joe Rogan?

  Deserved by whose judgment, though?

• 1:18:57Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, I mean, by my own individual judgment at this point, you know?

• 1:19:01Joe Rogan?

  But I mean, I mean, are we better than the lions who killed the gazelles?

• 1:19:05Speaker 03

  No, but the lions, everyone, all the natural world works cyclically. The, the way that the lion kills the gazelle and the way that the alligator takes the, you know-

• 1:19:17Joe Rogan?

  Tourist?

• 1:19:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. Everything works with balance in nature. You have just enough give and take, it's worked that way for years, and then, yes, extinctions, events happen and then things die out and they, but there has never been a creature on the planet with the ability like we have to take as much resource as poss, as we can without replenishing that or balancing that out.

• 1:19:46Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:19:46Speaker 03

  So we, I think, have a responsibility as humanity to understand how to balance ourselves with the, and harmonize with nature. And I think that's where my great hope is, is that we figure out how to find a cyclical arrangement with nature, where we, where, just like photosynthesis, just like plants give us oxygen-

• 1:20:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:13Speaker 03

  And then, you know, the carbon dioxide we breathe, then the plants then sequester.

• 1:20:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, our disconnection to nature might be a part of our disconnection to psychedelics. That, that might be one of the reasons why we're disconnected, is we're lacking a crucial element that's there to humble the human species.

• 1:20:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:20:33Joe Rogan?

  I think.

• 1:20:34Speaker 03

  That's the great key.

• 1:20:35Joe Rogan?

  I think that's part of it. I think, I really do. And I think that these monsters that were trying to silence the anti-war and the civil rights movement in nineteen seventies by making those things illegal.

• 1:20:47Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:20:47Joe Rogan?

  They essentially, they hampered our development, but not all of it, right? So our technological development continued, but our spiritual development ceased.

• 1:20:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, and, and intellect devoid of wisdom is dangerous.

• 1:21:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for sure, especially like overcome with ego.

• 1:21:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:04Joe Rogan?

  Intellect overcome with ego is like really disgusting.

• 1:21:07Speaker 03

  And, and the thing about it is, is that no one believes they're a monster.

• 1:21:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:21:13Speaker 03

  Everyone justifies.

• 1:21:14Joe Rogan?

  They think they're doing good. Right.

• 1:21:15Speaker 03

  Their, their behavior.

• 1:21:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:21:17Speaker 03

  And they think they're doing good. I mean, with the exception of, like I said, a few sociopathic, completely devoid of empathy individuals, you know?

• 1:21:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:26Speaker 03

  But for the most part, everyone, everyone justifies their behavior.

• 1:21:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:32Speaker 03

  For themselves. They don't, they judge themselves and then they somehow make, well, because I'm doing this, because I'm doing this, you know, I, you know, I can sleep at night. And so they let themselves sleep at night. And a lot of times, they should be looking at themselves and changing, but they don't, you know?

• 1:21:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:49Speaker 03

  And like, so that's why my policy is, I try to just always look at myself and see, is this actually beneficial for not just me, but for the people around me, you know? And music has been one of the great things in life that is a win-win, you know?

• 1:22:03Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:22:04Speaker 03

  It's always a win-win.

• 1:22:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's a great way to look at it.

• 1:22:07Speaker 03

  You know, it's like, wow, I'm, I'm so lucky to just be able to observe, be able to play, be able to sleep well, for the most part.

• 1:22:16Joe Rogan?

  You're, you're a chef for the soul. You know, like a chef provides food. It's a win-win. People eat. It's wonderful. You enjoy the food.

• 1:22:25Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 1:22:25Joe Rogan?

  It sustains you. And I think music is, that's a lot of what a musician is. They're a chef for the soul.

• 1:22:31Speaker 03

  Jimi Hendrix, you're a huge fan.

• 1:22:34Joe Rogan?

  Huge.

• 1:22:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. He was, other than my dad, it was Jimi and Stevie Ray Vaughan. And Stevie Ray being here from Austin, I sort of had a special affinity for, even though Hendrix,

• 1:22:48Joe Rogan?

  Steve Ray is the only one who's allowed to do Voodoo Child, other than Hendrix.

• 1:22:53Speaker 03

  I think you're probably right there, you know, I mean.

• 1:22:55Joe Rogan?

  I mean, other people can, I'm just joking around.

• 1:22:56Speaker 03

  No, no, I actually heard you say that with Charlie, and I was like, yeah, I think I agree.

• 1:23:00Joe Rogan?

  Kind of right, because he's the only one that I can listen to where I go, yeah, yeah, this is like a Stevie Ray version of Voodoo Child.

• 1:23:07Speaker 03

  Well, and he was a disciple of Hendrix, you know, he was, you know, he really sat and, you know, and really lived that life, and that's, the thing that I learned, that was the best lesson I learned, it goes back to why I am sober now and where I'm at, is because I think the greatest lie I ever believed for so long, I did fifteen years on the road, you know, two hundred and fifty shows a year, and I told myself I had to live like my heroes in order to be, you know, and I think, I think, I think that's what, it didn't kill Stevie Ray, but it derailed him for a long time, before he got sober, you know, Stevie Ray died in a tragic accident, obviously, it was, you know, just, that's what happened, but.

• 1:23:51Joe Rogan?

  I almost had a chance to drive him.

• 1:23:53Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:23:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I was driving limousines for this limousine company in Boston, and we're supposed, he's supposed to take a limousine, but he wouldn't take limousines, he would take cabs.

• 1:24:03Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:24:04Joe Rogan?

  He always wanted to take cabs, so I drove this limousine, I drove Jeff Beck once, I drove Annie Lennox's crew, I didn't drive.

• 1:24:12Speaker 03

  I love Annie Lennox, she's beautiful, she's amazing.

• 1:24:14Joe Rogan?

  I went, I had to drop off the crew at this restaurant, and Annie Lennox was talking, and her voice was so pow, it was like, the way I described it, I was like, her vocal cords were made out of like piano wire. Because like, her voice was carrying in the room, and I was, at the time, I was twenty, maybe? And I remember like, watching her talk, oh, this is crazy, like, this lady's voice is like, traveling, like, it's, it has a different power than everyone else in the, in the restaurant.

• 1:24:48Speaker 03

  The voice is such an incredible thing, is it not, I mean, you know, the power of a vocal cord, like, look at James Earl Jones.

• 1:24:54Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:56Speaker 03

  Right, you know, like, to change.

• 1:24:58Joe Rogan?

  Darth Vader, by the way.

• 1:24:59Speaker 03

  Darth Vader.

• 1:25:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's Darth Vader.

• 1:25:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, and he lived to be, what, ninety-five, something like that, how long did he have, I mean, he was crazy, and he was still doing that. Well, yeah, that's, there's certain ones in a lifetime.

• 1:25:13Joe Rogan?

  But Stevie Ray didn't, wouldn't take limos, like fuck this limo. He wanted to get, he liked to talk to cab drivers, like to get in a cab and he liked to just keep it real.

• 1:25:22Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 1:25:22Joe Rogan?

  Even though he was a superstar, he didn't want to be treated like one, he just wanted to be normal.

• 1:25:27Speaker 03

  Some of the best conversations I've ever had have been in like Ubers or Lifts or, you know, whatever, just sitting and like chatting about like where they're from and like how they got there and like, there's a lot of incredible stories that, you know, of like, you know, perseverance.

• 1:25:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:45Speaker 03

  You know, escaping certain situations.

• 1:25:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no doubt, yeah. I mean, and then, you know, this, everybody's got their own little journey and sometimes you dip into someone's journey and go, what are you doing, man?

• 1:25:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:25:57Joe Rogan?

  What's going on? What you have to do?

• 1:25:58Speaker 03

  I always try and learn a little bit of the language too. Like, how do you say this?

• 1:26:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:02Speaker 03

  You know, there's something like, there's something that just makes people, I think, really drop their defenses when you submit yourself with humility to learn their language.

• 1:26:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:15Speaker 03

  And to say, you know what, I'm like, look, thank you for driving me, I'm so glad you're here.

• 1:26:19Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:26:19Speaker 03

  How do you say thank you?

• 1:26:21Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right, right. How do you correctly pronounce your name?

• 1:26:24Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:26:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, I work for the UFC, so there's a lot of people that I, I have to ask them, tell me how to say your name. Because some of these names are just insane, like some of the names from Dagestan or from,

• 1:26:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:38Joe Rogan?

  you know, Kazakhstan, there's so many places where it's like Shavkat Rachmaninoff, like, Jesus Christ.

• 1:26:44Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:26:45Joe Rogan?

  Like, it takes forever and I have to, I can't fuck their names up.

• 1:26:48Speaker 03

  No, I'm glad that you think that, though, because that's a beautiful thing.

• 1:26:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's, it's interesting. I'm fascinated by the different sounds that people choose to use as their language in different places.

• 1:26:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:59Joe Rogan?

  It's like, human beings evolved in all these different places with all these different ways of communicating.

• 1:27:06Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:27:06Joe Rogan?

  They're all different.

• 1:27:08Speaker 03

  What's the clicking, uh, in Africa?

• 1:27:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:11Speaker 03

  There's, there's a musician and I can't remember for the life of me her name, which may, is it, maybe Angelique Jo, but no, uh, but she is, she sings and, and she uses the clicks and then just does this sort of, oh my gosh.

• 1:27:24Joe Rogan?

  She uses the clicks in her singing?

• 1:27:26Speaker 03

  In her music, oh, it's so beautiful. Oh, man.

• 1:27:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you gotta wonder, like, what, what caused them to develop that kind of language, you know? It's like they're all developing it in a vacuum, right? Cause they're all the people in that area, in that community, generation after generation after generation, all agree to communicate in this certain way.

• 1:27:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:45Joe Rogan?

  You know, and then they run into people in China and you're like, well, Jesus, this is so different.

• 1:27:49Speaker 03

  And in China, there's like, I don't know how many different dialects.

• 1:27:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:27:53Speaker 03

  You know?

• 1:27:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:54Speaker 03

  And they're different, like completely different.

• 1:27:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Well, my grandparents were from Italy and they spoke a Sicilian dialect.

• 1:28:00Speaker 03

  Ah, I'm Sicilian too.

• 1:28:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's great.

• 1:28:02Speaker 03

  My mother's side, yeah.

• 1:28:02Joe Rogan?

  But I remember me like learning Italian in college. And it was so different than the way that they were speaking Italian.

• 1:28:13Speaker 03

  Well, and I think, I'm not, I'm not certain, but Dean Martin had a, a specific, and it may have been Sicilian or maybe a, a specific northern Italian or, or Napoli, maybe.

• 1:28:26Joe Rogan?

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:28:27Speaker 03

  But, but the way that he would sing Domenico Modugno's song, you know, volare, penso che un sogno così non mi tornerà. Volare, you know? And he would do it and he'd go, he'd, you know, he'd, he'd have these like slang. In his version, it's quite, it's quite different, the Italian, if you listen to both of them together.

• 1:28:48Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 1:28:48Speaker 03

  Really interesting, yeah.

• 1:28:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, dialects are weird, right? It's like people learn how, well, I mean, look at in America, right? You can go to like New Orleans.

• 1:28:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:57Joe Rogan?

  And people have a completely different way of talking than people do in New York City.

• 1:29:01Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah. Have you, have you heard about the new, speaking of AI, the new adventures that were now embarking on some scientists? They're like using AI to communicate with animals, like whales.

• 1:29:14Joe Rogan?

  I saw that with cats. I saw that today, that AI.

• 1:29:18Speaker 03

  You saw that today?

• 1:29:19Joe Rogan?

  Yes, AI is translating cat language with like 95% accuracy. They think they know what cats are saying to each other now.

• 1:29:29Speaker 03

  Do you think that will have an effect on how we treat animals if we're able to communicate with?

• 1:29:33Joe Rogan?

  Probably, yeah. Well, I'm sure you've seen dogs when people say, "I love you," and they go

• 1:29:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:29:39Joe Rogan?

  You know, like

• 1:29:40Speaker 03

  You're like, "There's something there."

• 1:29:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're trying to say, "I love you," they just don't have the same lips.

• 1:29:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, and they're very, dogs will, you know, they're very good at mimicking.

• 1:29:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:29:50Speaker 03

  You know, and behavior.

• 1:29:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, they certainly understand language, because I talk to my dog like a person. I talk to him.

• 1:29:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:57Joe Rogan?

  Like, I can say, "Come on, man, is it time to go outside? What do you, what do you want to do? You want to get crazy?" And he'll go, "Hmm? I'm gonna go outside." Like, he knows what I'm saying. Like, I can, I don't have to say it in a certain tone. I can just say the words.

• 1:30:10Speaker 03

  He knows, yeah. It's funny, my dad, you know Roger Miller, you ever hear Roger Miller?

• 1:30:15Joe Rogan?

  It's Roger Miller.

• 1:30:17Speaker 03

  "Trailer's for sale or rent, room's still at fifty cents." You know, King of the Road?

• 1:30:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right.

• 1:30:24Speaker 03

  "King of the Road."

• 1:30:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:30:26Speaker 03

  So, my dad and him were good friends, and he used to jo, he'd tell a lot of great jokes. But one of them was, "It's true, you start, what they say, you start looking like your dog. I just got chewed out by the neighbor for shitting in their front yard."

• 1:30:43Speaker 03

  Uh, he's got, my dad has so many amazing jokes.

• 1:30:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, you, it must have been really interesting, the people that your dad brought around.

• 1:30:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:53Joe Rogan?

  Because like, you know.

• 1:30:55Speaker 03

  Well, one of the greatest moments I ever felt like I was a part of was just a sort of a normal afternoon, and I was in Hawaii, and I was at my parents' house there. And it was me and dad were sitting around, and Kris Kristofferson walks by and in behind, walks in. They're on their way to the airport or coming from the airport or whatever. And in walks in with Muhammad Ali.

• 1:31:20Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:31:22Speaker 03

  And so I'm sitting there, and me and dad are just picking. And Muhammad comes and sits down and Chris is on one side of him and Dad's on the other and I'm the one who got the guitar. And so we just start singing for him. And he's shaking, he can't speak really, you know. But you could just see me and Dad and Chris were just like serenading Muhammad Ali one afternoon.

• 1:31:45Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:31:46Speaker 03

  And we sang Help Me Make It Through The Night, we sang Always On My Mind, I sang one of my songs, you know, so it's just like, it was like a beautiful afternoon, I'll never forget that moment.

• 1:31:57Joe Rogan?

  It must have been so strange to be constantly surrounded by these exceptional people, not just exceptional, but exceptional worldwide, like the way they're received worldwide. Like, these are like iconic humans, like Chris Christopherson is like an iconic human being. Muhammad Ali is an iconic human being.

• 1:32:14Speaker 03

  Yes, he's, and, um, uh, the, and the key language there is a human being, well-rounded, thoughtful, empathetic.

• 1:32:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:27Speaker 03

  I mean, wise, you know.

• 1:32:29Joe Rogan?

  Wise.

• 1:32:30Speaker 03

  And these people are, you know, they, they made their life, their work, Jimi Hendrix, I think, was famous in saying that you, you, you, you know, your art isn't just the music, it's, it's your life, you make your life the work of art. And that's what, I mean, he had no problem with all the colors that he used in his whole life. You know, he had no problem expressing himself in many other forms, other than, you know, in how he dressed and how he worked, you know, everything was an expression of who he was in his art. And I, you know, I'm grateful to have been exposed to a lot of those people in my life, yeah.

• 1:33:06Joe Rogan?

  It's just a very exceptional childhood in that regard, right? Cause for some people, they grow up and I remember the first time I ever met like a really famous person, I was like, whoa, this is weird. You know, like it was probably my twen-, well, I mean, other, other than like seeing Jeff Beck and seeing Annie Lennox, I never really met them. You know, I didn't really start meeting famous people until I became a comedian, then really meeting famous people until I got on television.

• 1:33:28Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:33:28Joe Rogan?

  And then it was just, it was odd, it was just so odd, it was, and still to this day sometimes, I'll have someone in here, like I had Bono in here, and it's just weird to me, like. One of my first Bono memories, I was like twenty-five years ago, I was doing mushrooms and I was listening to In God's Country. I got to tell that to Bono. It was one of the wildest versions of your songs, like looking out over this canyon while that song was playing.

• 1:33:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's beautiful, though.

• 1:33:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, oh, it's amazing.

• 1:33:55Speaker 03

  Beautiful memory, yeah.

• 1:33:56Joe Rogan?

  But it's just weird, you know, to just accept that they're human beings. Cause you see them on television, you see them in all these things and you grow to realize like, oh, we're all just human beings. And like, that's part of the lesson of it, is to meet someone who you don't think is just a human being. And you realize like, oh, all of us are human beings.

• 1:34:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a great lesson. I mean, and when I think that I was able to understand fame and its trappings at a young age. And that's, you know, that's something I'm also very grateful for, that I, you know, was able to see like, okay, a lot of Dad's friends, a lot of the people that I grew up around, didn't make it very long because they got into this or they got into that. Or they, you know, and I see it all happening a lot to a lot of young people that are unable to handle fame.

• 1:34:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:34:47Speaker 03

  You know, and fame is not inherently a good thing. I think it's actually probably a net negative, although it's a necessary thing if you want your art to get out to as many people as possible, or if you want to create a living. Like, I don't depend on my parents, so I want my music to get out there so that I'll have a career when I'm ninety. I want to be playing, you know, I don't want to, I don't, I mean, eventually I have to keep making a living, you know, and so.

• 1:35:11Joe Rogan?

  So you have to be a little famous.

• 1:35:12Speaker 03

  I have, you think there's a part of you that had, that, you know, part of, of, of the entertainment world, where you have to make sure, you have to put yourself out there.

• 1:35:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:22Speaker 03

  And that's kind of despite knowing that when you put out yourself out there, then all the, you know, that you get unwanted attention too. I think one of the worst things about it is the scammers on the internet. There's so many scammers now on Instagram and Facebook and everyone and they prey on elderly people.

• 1:35:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah.

• 1:35:43Speaker 03

  And they prey on.

• 1:35:44Joe Rogan?

  You mean scam pretend they're you?

• 1:35:46Speaker 03

  They pretend that they're me and they go out there and these people are are I think they're the lowest form on this planet really because these are people that have dementia issues. They have, you know, you know, they're elderly, you know, and they and they prey on that demographic specifically because they know that they're more gullible.

• 1:36:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:36:08Speaker 03

  And don't understand technology and they think that I'm talking to them and they'll give in some cases thousands and thousands of dollars of their own savings. In my name.

• 1:36:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:17Speaker 03

  And that has almost made me get off the internet many times. But even so, what happens when I get off is then they just run rampant.

• 1:36:26Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:36:27Speaker 03

  You know, they create new accounts and then the people that are, you know, sort of, and they they don't want to believe it's not me.

• 1:36:33Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 1:36:34Speaker 03

  You know, and so like the people that are caught in it get caught and they get hooked, you know?

• 1:36:40Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:22Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:45Speaker 03

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• 1:38:15Joe Rogan?

  I remember watching this documentary once and it was about people that get scammed romantically online.

• 1:38:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:38:21Joe Rogan?

  And there's this guy who's this lonely man who's in his 60s. And he had this girlfriend that he was communicating with in Europe that was non-existent. And he flew over there twice to meet her and every time she conveniently couldn't meet him.

• 1:38:36Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 1:38:37Joe Rogan?

  And his daughter, rather, was trying to explain to him that it wasn't real, that he's getting scammed, that he didn't want to believe it. And in the documentary, you could see like this guy like coming to grips with it, but not wanting to believe it. And like, oh, something just came up. She couldn't go. She loves me.

• 1:38:55Speaker 03

  It's the saddest thing. That just happened to us recently. I played a show with Eric Church at Chiefs and I had a bunch of friends there and everything. And we had someone show up at the door saying that they had been given, that they had been put on the list by me, that I was in a relationship with that person and...

• 1:39:11Joe Rogan?

  You sure they weren't just schizophrenic?

• 1:39:13Speaker 03

  Well, these people are in some cases schizophrenic. Or they have Alzheimer's or dementia or memory issues or whatever. But a lot of times they're just being catfished, you know, or just like, you know, like, I mean, I've seen there is that show Catfish that was on TV not too long ago. I don't know if it's still around, but like, these are otherwise sort of normal people that get tricked into believing they're in a relationship and they have a girlfriend and they're online and they get to the place and that's, you know, and these are like sometimes younger people that even get... It just shows you how easily...

• 1:39:48Speaker 06

  Sometimes even intelligent people can be manipulated.

• 1:39:51Joe Rogan?

  For sure.

• 1:39:51Speaker 06

  You know.

• 1:39:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, it's just the perils of dealing with this non-material world.

• 1:39:57Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:39:57Joe Rogan?

  Dealing with the internet world.

• 1:39:59Speaker 06

  I mean, and I'm sure it happened in some ways back in the day, you know, with letters and things like that.

• 1:40:04Joe Rogan?

  It happened with everything. I mean, snake oil salesmen.

• 1:40:07Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:40:07Joe Rogan?

  I was reading some, oh, no, I was watching Cody Tucker today. He had something about this guy who was treating people for cataracts.

• 1:40:17Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 1:40:17Joe Rogan?

  And it didn't really treat them, it actually blinded them. And he had done it to two different famous composers. This one guy was like, and he was a traveling guy. He would go from town to town and do things like that. There's always been people like that. There's always, I mean.

• 1:40:33Speaker 06

  And you ask yourself, do those people have any, like, conscience? You know, at that, at a certain point, what are they telling themselves to justify their behavior?

• 1:40:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're probably just getting by and probably they've been fucked over too.

• 1:40:48Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:40:49Joe Rogan?

  Most of those people have been fucked over to the point where they can justify fucking over other people. Like, those people have it coming, you know, someone did it to me, I'm gonna do it to them. This is the game we play.

• 1:40:59Speaker 06

  What is the antidote to that?

• 1:41:03Joe Rogan?

  You know, I think those people exist so you can appreciate people that don't do that.

• 1:41:08Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:41:08Joe Rogan?

  I think, I think that's where, like, heartless, nasty, vicious people exist. It's like, have you ever been in a relationship with someone who's just like a real shithead, just mean, nasty, insulting?

• 1:41:21Speaker 06

  Gaslighty.

• 1:41:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and trying to diminish you as a person. And then you meet someone who's not like that, and you're like, oh. If I didn't know someone who sucked, maybe I wouldn't appreciate this person.

• 1:41:33Speaker 06

  Totally.

• 1:41:33Joe Rogan?

  You know, and like, that's the beauty, like, one time, me and my friend Brian, we went on this hunting trip with my friend Steve Rinella to this island in Alaska. And we were there for a week, getting rained on every day. It was miserable. Just freezing, shivering, every day, for a week. Then I came back to LA, and the sun felt so good.

• 1:41:58Joe Rogan?

  It never felt that good. I've been living in LA for twenty-five fucking years.

• 1:42:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:42:02Joe Rogan?

  It never felt that good.

• 1:42:03Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:42:03Joe Rogan?

  But I appreciate the sun. Why did I appreciate the sun? Because I'd just been rained on for a week.

• 1:42:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:08Joe Rogan?

  I had taken it for granted.

• 1:42:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:10Joe Rogan?

  This beautiful, amazing sunlight that I just, just go, oh, it's a fucking sunny day. Where's my sunglasses?

• 1:42:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:17Joe Rogan?

  Let me drive to work and get inside real quick because it's too fucking bright out. You know, and I didn't, but because of the rain, for a week of rain, I, I really felt it. And I remember calling my friend Steve. I have never been happier. And that's why, is because it sucked for a week. And I think you need that. I think you need shitty people so that you appreciate good people. And I think when you meet someone who's gaslighty and, you know, someone who tries to ruin your life.

• 1:42:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:42:43Joe Rogan?

  Like, those people exist so that you can appreciate people that aren't like that.

• 1:42:48Speaker 03

  Well, yeah.

• 1:42:49Joe Rogan?

  The yin and yang of life.

• 1:42:50Speaker 03

  The great, another great example of that is when you have to pee so bad.

• 1:42:54Joe Rogan?

  Ha ha ha.

• 1:42:55Speaker 03

  Right? And then that moment when you get to the toilet.

• 1:42:58Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:42:58Speaker 03

  And it's, ah.

• 1:43:00Joe Rogan?

  Beer drinkers understand that.

• 1:43:01Speaker 03

  Oh, man, yeah. Or when you're sick and you, you know, and then you're like, oh, man. It's almost like you can't even remember how it felt to feel good. And then when you feel good, you're like, wow, I'm so grateful that I feel good.

• 1:43:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:43:13Speaker 03

  It's an amazing feeling.

• 1:43:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and that is, the thing we take for granted more than anything is personal health. And you give up personal health for a short time, short-term experiences, like, you know, drinking. Like, drinking is terrible for your health. But you give it up, you give up these little chunks of your health for these, like, small bursts of release of inhibition, you know?

• 1:43:36Speaker 03

  Right. Yeah, I never really liked it anyways. It never really actually put me in, too often, I, I always was like, ah, yeah, I wish I hadn't.

• 1:43:47Joe Rogan?

  It puts you in bad spots sometimes.

• 1:43:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I feel like, I, I think the people, and I've, I've read this, that the people who actually sort of drink and become ha, like, happy or the life of the party or whatever are the ones who are more likely to become addicted, obviously.

• 1:44:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:44:04Speaker 03

  You know, because there, there is, it's like, there are two types of people that when, when they drink, like, for me, when I drink, it kind of makes me think more and I get kind of depressed and I, you know, like, kind of, you know, like, down and like, I don't really actually.

• 1:44:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, you're a sensitive artist, literally. That's literally what you do.

• 1:44:21Speaker 03

  Hold on.

• 1:44:24Speaker 03

  You're right.

• 1:44:25Joe Rogan?

  Now you can lean into that. That's a weird thing, too, when people lean into that sensitivity. They lean into it, they carry it around as a badge of courage. You know, it's just fine, it's okay. But, you know, that's, those are the type of people that, I mean, that's why it feels so good for them.

• 1:44:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:44:43Joe Rogan?

  When you, um, when, you know, you drink and then you just like become overly sensitive and think about things. It's just like, it's because you have a lot of empathy. And the alcohol, the, the release of inhibition makes you like be overwhelmed by the empathy.

• 1:44:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:57Joe Rogan?

  Be overwhelmed by thinking, I mean, you know, the world's filled with a lot of weird shit, man. And it, it's like, there's all these different channels that you can tune into. All these different things that you can focus on.

• 1:45:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I, I think that, that, you know, uh, the ice bath analogy for me is like, I love the clarity that I get after an ice bath, and I feel like sobriety gives me that.

• 1:45:18Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:45:19Speaker 03

  You know, it's just like, it's just like this great awake, alive feeling. And I'm living in that clarity.

• 1:45:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a perfect example.

• 1:45:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:28Joe Rogan?

  Because you have to go through it to get there.

• 1:45:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:30Joe Rogan?

  You get out of that ice bath, you feel so fucking good. Why do you feel so fucking good? Because for three minutes, you felt like you were gonna die.

• 1:45:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:45:37Joe Rogan?

  It's literally the, the benefit of it. And what's fascinating to me is I watch all these people try to dismiss it, and all these people try to say, you know, it's foolish and silly and like, the one thing that those people all have in common, the dismissers, is they all lack discipline. They all are fighting it intellectually. They're fighting whatever that fucking mid-singulate cortex thing is.

• 1:45:59Speaker 03

  Anterior mid-singulate cortex.

• 1:46:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, theirs is weak as fuck. And they don't like it, and so they try to diminish the people that do have it. You know, they, they try to diminish it, which is just a compensation thing that people do. People are always doing that.

• 1:46:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, they are.

• 1:46:14Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, those voices are important, too, because those voices, like, you go, oh, I know why you're doing that. Even the gaslighty people, like, oh, I know why you're doing that.

• 1:46:21Speaker 03

  Well, it, it's helped me get through life, understanding people and that their, their behavior comes from their own trauma and their own past.

• 1:46:32Joe Rogan?

  Sure, and the thing that you hate in other people, oftentimes you hate it because you're terrified of seeing it in yourself.

• 1:46:37Speaker 03

  Well, that's the great, that's the great lesson, you know, I mean, and, or, or, and it doesn't mean that... Here's what I think it doesn't mean that you are that, it just means that you're afraid of that inside.

• 1:46:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean you are that.

• 1:46:52Speaker 03

  But I think that, yes, it's like what you're most afraid of, you know.

• 1:46:58Joe Rogan?

  Because you know it exists in you.

• 1:46:59Speaker 03

  Because everything exists in all of us.

• 1:47:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:02Speaker 03

  We're the exploded universe in manifested motion.

• 1:47:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:05Speaker 03

  We are the unfolding universe every moment.

• 1:47:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and when you get angry at foolishness that you see in other people, what you're angry at is that that thing could be, it could be in you. And it is in you, it's just you haven't fed it. It's the wolf you haven't fed.

• 1:47:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, and discipline helps with that. It helps you to understand that you are responsible for your feelings.

• 1:47:28Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yeah, you're responsible for your feelings and also like there's things that you can do that can make life more bearable. And one of those things is physical exertion. It makes life more bearable. And the way I realize this is when I don't exercise for like three or four days in a row, which is very rare.

• 1:47:47Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:47:47Joe Rogan?

  But when it does happen, I start getting really weird and anxious. I'm like, oh, my God, people are like this all day. Like, some people are like this their whole life, where they're just riddled with anxiety and all, everything is a crisis. Every little mo, every fucking moment is unbearable. I'm like, oh, this makes sense. This makes sense in our sedentary weird world where people are just sitting and staring at a screen all day and,

• 1:48:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:12Joe Rogan?

  you know, and not doing things. So you're not, you don't have, you don't have meaning, right? And then you're just overwhelmed.

• 1:48:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:21Joe Rogan?

  And then, you know, then you'll find a protest and go out there and start fucking screaming in the streets.

• 1:48:26Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, I think there's more to that than that, but yes, I agree. I mean, I think.

• 1:48:30Joe Rogan?

  A lot of it is that, though. A lot of it is that, a lot of what people protest, there's, a lot of protests have like real good purpose behind them. But a lot of the people participating in those protests are looking for meaning in their life. And they don't have it anywhere else.

• 1:48:43Speaker 03

  Yes, well, and, you know, I mean, look, we need those people, too. We need, we need those people to drive change.

• 1:48:49Joe Rogan?

  Sure, if they're organic.

• 1:48:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:52Joe Rogan?

  Again, the problem with this world is that those things are manipulated.

• 1:48:57Speaker 03

  Well, unless, yeah.

• 1:48:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, weaponized.

• 1:49:00Speaker 03

  You have to, it's important that you don't let your emotions be manipulated. I think that's one of the great lessons in this wild world that we're in. I mean, that's what I try the most. That's why I try not to make concrete statements, you know, unless I know. At least, you know, where I err on is like, okay, this is, this is the compassionate thing to support or do. I have a charity that I work with called Music Heals International. And it's a music school in Haiti, in Venezuela, in India. I think there's a presence here too. And, and, and it's just, I know that I can in concrete ways make someone's life more joyful.

• 1:49:44Speaker 03

  And on a face-to-face basis. David Blaine was telling me about, I met David Blaine one time and he was, he's, he's a cool guy.

• 1:49:53Joe Rogan?

  Very cool guy.

• 1:49:54Speaker 03

  And, and we were discussing that it's, it's almost more powerful to be at a hospital and, and, and go and talk to the kids that you're supporting in this hospital rather than to donate to that hospital and just sort of be. I, I think there's just such something so spiritually significant about being with the people that you're helping and the joy in that being reciprocated and that, that feeling of being at the, you know, you know, just giving is, is joy, you know, ultimately. I think that's a really cool thing, you know, like, there's a great quote, "A man slept and dreamt that life was joy. He awoke and found that life was service. He acted and behold, service was joy."

• 1:50:41Speaker 03

  And I like that, always remember that.

• 1:50:44Joe Rogan?

  There's definitely something to that, right? Making people feel good is selfish.

• 1:50:48Speaker 03

  It is, and it's a joy, and it's a win-win.

• 1:50:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a win-win. Like, you get rewarded for being nice.

• 1:50:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I mean, there's also, I don't like, I think the word "kind" is more appropriate. Because people can be nice and not good, but I don't think you can truly be kind.

• 1:51:06Joe Rogan?

  Right, because if you're kind, you actually are thinking.

• 1:51:09Speaker 03

  You feel it.

• 1:51:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you feel it. Whereas you're just being polite.

• 1:51:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, and you can be, you can say the right words with like a shitty feeling to it, like, "Have a good day," and you're like, "Ew."

• 1:51:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:21Joe Rogan?

  "Fuck you."

• 1:51:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I know what's behind that.

• 1:51:24Joe Rogan?

  British people are really good at that. Yeah, you know, they're really good at like, saying the right words with like a cunty attitude behind it.

• 1:51:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:51:32Joe Rogan?

  Because that's part of their culture. It's like keeping up appearances.

• 1:51:36Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, in a way, it's part of every culture.

• 1:51:39Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:51:39Speaker 03

  And I, you know, I think that, you know, yeah, keeping up appearances.

• 1:51:45Joe Rogan?

  It was one of the things I hated the most about Los Angeles. It's like the hollowness of communication. That's my bias against actors and people, because I encountered so many people that were like artificial constructs.

• 1:52:00Speaker 03

  Well, I loved it there when I went, and I still love it when I go. I mean, I've spent a lot of time. Yeah, I lived there for 10 years.

• 1:52:07Joe Rogan?

  Where'd you live?

• 1:52:08Speaker 03

  In Venice.

• 1:52:09Joe Rogan?

  Okay, well, that's a little different. Venice is, it's kind of, at least it was before it was overwhelmed with homeless people.

• 1:52:16Speaker 03

  Here's what I think about, about Los Angeles is, Los Angeles is like the cave in Star Wars in Empire Strikes Back. And when Luke asks Yoda, "What's in there?" And he says, "Only what you take with you." Because you can go to LA and find any type of energy. You can go to LA and find any type of person. There's groups of really amazing people and there's groups of people who are lost, you know? And there's different areas and there's different places that, you know, where these different types of people congregate. But LA is a very powerful place. It's a lot of moving, you know? And I prefer to be in places that are less, there's less movement. I'm a, I live in Maui. I have my friends in Maui.

• 1:52:59Speaker 03

  My best buddy, Matt Miola, is a professional surfer and he's a bow hunter. And I, you know, and my, my friend Ollie works construction. And, you know, when I go home to Maui, I like a simple life. You know, I like, you know, my friend, they're all fishermen. They're all, you know, I like to go out there and, and that's how I want to raise my kids, you know? When I want to be out there in nature. I want to be giving and taking with the land. And I want to be able to understand the planet that I live on by working with the earth and working with, you know? And, uh, and that community in Maui there is a really special place, you know?

• 1:53:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think Hawaii in general is a very special place because it's surrounded by ocean. And I think there's something about the ocean that gives you humility. And it like lets you understand that you're a part of nature.

• 1:53:48Speaker 03

  That's where we came from.

• 1:53:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we came from it. And not only that, it's so huge and massive and overwhelming. It's like the mountains. Mountains have a similar effect. It's like they're, they're, they're so vast. You can't have much of an ego when you're in their presence.

• 1:54:03Speaker 03

  My other favorite place is Montana.

• 1:54:05Joe Rogan?

  There you go.

• 1:54:06Speaker 03

  You know, other than, you know? Yeah, I mean, I, I, anywhere there's nature. But I really like, I like that's, being in the mountains of Montana and being on Hawaii, there's only a few places in life that I actually am sad when I leave. Like I get really upset when I leave. You know, it's like breaking up with someone, you know, when you have to leave.

• 1:54:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Um, when you write, do you have a purpose in mind? Or do you just sit down and try to find out what comes to mind? Or do you have a thought in your head before you write?

• 1:54:36Speaker 03

  My best work comes, it just, um, it's like a conduit. It like comes from another place. And I hear, I hear like a... Like when I was eleven, I wrote this song called You Were It. And I was on the school bus and I started hearing this song in my head. And I realized that it hadn't been written yet. It was something that was coming from, I guess, my own experiences, but also filtered through somewhere else. It felt like it came from somewhere. Like it was a download, you know? And I, I, I think that, I look at, I look at writing as if like there's a beautiful muse

• 1:55:19Speaker 03

  sitting there and she's giving me these gifts every once in a while. And then she sends them to me. And if I'm open and clear and not in my own way, and I'm, you know, if some, if I get like a, a, a, something that hits me, like a clever line, like there's a song I have called Find Yourself and I hope you find yourself before I find somebody else to be my love. And I start singing that in my head and I start like, oh, the melody comes and it's a gift. And I don't, like, wherever I'm at, if I was, got one right now, I'd have to write it down while we were talking.

• 1:55:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:55:51Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? I have to sit down and be like, hold on. Let's write a song, you know, and, but I, I, I try not to, you know, I can't force her to send me, cause they're gifts, you know?

• 1:56:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:03Speaker 03

  And I, it's like my dad always says, like waiting for the rain to fill up the well. You can't force the rain to come, you just have to wait. And the real stuff comes when you just allow yourself to receive it.

• 1:56:13Joe Rogan?

  You just, and I think, I like what you just said too, about getting out of your own way.

• 1:56:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:17Joe Rogan?

  Cause that's the thing. It's like these ideas are out there, but you're so in your own head and so worried about yourself and your own bullshit that sometimes like you, you block them.

• 1:56:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:28Joe Rogan?

  Cause all of your attention is on yourself.

• 1:56:30Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, I mean, I, I, you know, and you overthink it and you overanalyze it.

• 1:56:34Joe Rogan?

  How am I gonna look?

• 1:56:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, and is-

• 1:56:37Joe Rogan?

  Is it gonna be cool? People gonna like it?

• 1:56:39Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, that's the big one. Is this like, I think a lot of people get caught up in like, well- You know, like, this latest record, you know, people, like, I didn't wanna be too flowery with it. I didn't, I wanted to write simply what came to me, and sometimes the songs are simple. And I think that simplicity, for some people, can be like, oh, well, what about the the intricate arrangements, and what about the long jams and the exploration, like, that's not what came to me.

• 1:57:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:57:07Speaker 03

  And I, I can't cater to those people, you know. Right now, where my heart is, is zen. It's, I'm trying to be as simple as I can be in terms of just only putting out what comes to me at the moment. And, and sometimes people aren't gonna like it, cuz they're used to me rocking and jamming and doing all that, or they're used to me doing that. But that'll come back. It'll come back around, you know, there's, there's a time and a place for everything, and right now, I just, I have to be, I have to be open to it as it comes, not as I want it to be, or as I think other people will want it to be, you know.

• 1:57:41Joe Rogan?

  That's it, right?

• 1:57:42Speaker 03

  You know.

• 1:57:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you just have to, whatever, the, the thing has to be kinda pure in its form.

• 1:57:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:48Joe Rogan?

  And don't over-molest it with a bunch of different production values and fucking layers and sound.

• 1:57:57Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly.

• 1:57:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:58Speaker 03

  And, and I, I prefer, I mean, when I listen to my heroes, you know, Hank Williams, Dad, Merle Haggard, Stevie Ray and Jimmy are, are, look, what came to Jimmy was an explosion of color and sound.

• 1:58:15Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:58:16Speaker 03

  I mean, when I hear his music, I see colors that are, like, I can't even describe in real life.

• 1:58:21Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:58:22Speaker 03

  Might have something to do with the psychedelics that I also took, but at the same time, I, I think that other people.

• 1:58:26Joe Rogan?

  And the psychedelics he took, too.

• 1:58:28Speaker 03

  And, and that's the thing, is that he, it goes back to what we're saying, like, the state of mind that he was in.

• 1:58:33Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:58:34Speaker 03

  He captured, and he put it out.

• 1:58:36Joe Rogan?

  Imagine writing Voodoo Child if you're sober.

• 1:58:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, you, you know, like, yeah, exactly, and there, and there's a time and a place for it, you know.

• 1:58:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:44Speaker 03

  You know, and, and, but, you know, I have hundreds of songs I have not released that I wrote at different times in my life, and I'll eventually put 'em all out, hopefully, if I'm lucky, you know.

• 1:58:55Joe Rogan?

  Do you just go back to 'em and look at 'em every now and then, like, how do you, how do you file them away? Do you have 'em on a computer?

• 1:59:00Speaker 03

  I have it on a Dropbox file.

• 1:59:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:59:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:03Joe Rogan?

  And so every now and then, you check 'em out?

• 1:59:04Speaker 03

  Couple hundred songs in there, more probably now, cuz I write 'em all the time, you know, and then. And uh, yeah, it's like, it's just kinda, it just, it's like, sometimes it's like, "God, I wrote another one, it's gonna go there," and then that one shoots to the top of the list of the one you're interested in, 'cause you just wrote it, and then

• 1:59:21Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:59:22Speaker 03

  Something that might be really great just gets kind of pushed down, and then like, so what really, you really have to do is each project that comes up, you have to say, "What am I trying to, what am I trying to get across

• 1:59:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:59:33Speaker 03

  right now?" And it's not about whether a song is better or worse, it's about what, what am I trying to say? And how do I present that, you know? And so I have to collect ten or twelve or fourteen songs from, that, that kind of fit in this, in a narrative, you know, that you're trying to put out there.

• 1:59:51Joe Rogan?

  And do you write on, pen to paper, or do you write on a computer? Like, how do you do it for the most part? You write on your phone?

• 1:59:58Speaker 03

  I do it for the most part.

• 1:59:59Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:59:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, because I, I have fast thumbs.

• 2:00:02Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:00:02Speaker 03

  And my brain works really fast, and when I get really excited, I'll write it down there, I can read it properly. Sometimes I'll write on a piece of paper, don't get me wrong, I, I uh-

• 2:00:12Joe Rogan?

  Do you ever talk it to your phone, like, use VoiceToText?

• 2:00:14Speaker 03

  I use Voice Memo to record everything. So a lot of the demos that I have are, are just Voice Memo to phone, because my brain's working fast, and this thing works pretty fast.

• 2:00:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, Voice Memo has a transcription aspect to it too now.

• 2:00:29Speaker 03

  Oh, I didn't even realize that.

• 2:00:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, I've been using that a lot, so when you, it works on both Android and on iPhones.

• 2:00:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:37Joe Rogan?

  But you, when you uh, make a Voice Note, it can transcribe it now, so like, what I'll do is I'll, you know, record sets, and sometimes we do, we do this show at the Comedy Mothership called Bottom of the Barrel, where you have like a whiskey barrel, and inside is all suggestions from the audience, you just put your hand in there and pick out a piece of paper and pull it out, it's like tomato soup or whatever.

• 2:00:57Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 2:00:58Joe Rogan?

  And you just have to start talking about it, try to find something in there. And every now and then, it's like, you know, one out of X amount of times, you have a genuine idea that becomes a bit.

• 2:01:08Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:01:09Joe Rogan?

  And the best way for me to fish those out is to go over the transcription, instead of just listening to myself for an hour.

• 2:01:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, that's great, I, I didn't realize that was a feature, and I'm, I'm gonna start using it.

• 2:01:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's pretty dope, 'cause you could just talk, and it'll transcribe it, and then you can copy and paste that transcription into Voice Note, or into Notes. And even Notes itself has a voice memo aspect to it now.

• 2:01:34Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 2:01:35Joe Rogan?

  So if you go to, just when you're in Notes on, on an iPhone, like you can actually make a voice memo.

• 2:01:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:01:41Joe Rogan?

  Voice note from that, and it'll transcribe that for you.

• 2:01:44Speaker 03

  When you're doing a set, do you have people put their phones away?

• 2:01:48Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:01:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the club has, we have.

• 2:01:51Speaker 03

  Most comedians do that, right? Cause they're trying a lot of material out.

• 2:01:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're trying material out, and also you don't want people distracted. It's better for everybody.

• 2:01:59Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 2:01:59Joe Rogan?

  It's better for the audience, it's better for you, and also you're saying a lot of stuff that's like not done. And if somebody releases it because they want clicks and then they put it on you, to fuck the whole bit up, cause it's not done. It's like, and a lot of bits, they suck at first. Like, you don't know where they're going. Like, you have an idea, and the only way comedy really gets made is in front of a crowd. I have a lot of ideas that I think are really good until the audience tells me different.

• 2:02:24Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:02:25Joe Rogan?

  You don't know, really have no idea until you say it in front of people.

• 2:02:28Speaker 03

  That's interesting, yeah, and it's very much the same for, you know, in music, I feel like there's stuff that I try out live, you know, there's a song, I do a lot of new material live just to see how the audience will react.

• 2:02:41Joe Rogan?

  Does it feel weird the first time you sing it?

• 2:02:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:02:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:44Speaker 03

  It depends on what type of song it is too. If it's a song that requires focus on the lyrics, you know, then sometimes it feels weird because a lot of people, when they listen to music, they don't hear a lot of, like, it's hard, it takes a certain type of listener to listen to lyrics and be able to internalize them.

• 2:03:03Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:03:03Speaker 03

  A lot of people take the song as a whole, and the melody, and they hear it, and they're like, oh, this song makes me feel good, and then later on, if they like the song, they'll go in and listen to the lyrics. I've found, a lot of people listen to music that way. And then it takes them a while to actually hear what, you know, unless, unless it's a stripped down, me and a guitar with no band around, and then it forces the listener to then listen to the words.

• 2:03:30Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:03:30Speaker 03

  You know, which I actually, I really like doing that sometimes. I like just playing, just me, because then it, it, there's no distraction around, and it's sort of just. Me, a guitar, and the words that I'm saying, and I think they have more impact sometimes that way.

• 2:03:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, people love that too. That's why they love acoustic performances, right?

• 2:03:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. Bob Dylan was an amazing, Paul Simon again, I like, you know, these are people that I I cite a lot, you know, in this, in this way, but, you know, Ciara Farrell, do you know Ciara Farrell? Oh my god, she's on my new record, Stephen Wilson Jr., he's another great, amazing country singer songwriter. Ciara Farrell has one of the greatest voices I've ever heard.

• 2:04:09Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:04:09Speaker 03

  Oh my god, yeah, you got, you're gonna love her music, and, and, and Stephen Wilson Jr., not only does he, is he a great writer, he used to be a food scientist. So he was a, he was a food scientist, and he, and he wrote songs kind of as a hobby on the side, but he was responsible for like what percentage of what sort of goes into making dog food and like things like that, it was really interesting, yeah, and he, and now he's like really hitting it off. He's, he's, he's a great artist.

• 2:04:42Joe Rogan?

  That's interesting.

• 2:04:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:44Joe Rogan?

  Like a food scientist to, well, yeah, I guess there's probably an art to that too, right?

• 2:04:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah.

• 2:04:50Joe Rogan?

  Create something delicious. Well, you could be an evil food scientist, creating junk food that's like super addictive.

• 2:04:56Speaker 03

  I think there's a lot of those out there, man.

• 2:04:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, hell yeah.

• 2:04:59Speaker 03

  But I don't, you know, do they think they're evil? They probably just, you know, getting a jo, you know, getting a job done.

• 2:05:03Joe Rogan?

  They're just doing their job. What's their job, you know? I mean, a lot of these food companies unfortunately are now owned by the same people that used to own tobacco companies.

• 2:05:12Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:05:12Joe Rogan?

  Or still own tobacco companies.

• 2:05:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's interesting.

• 2:05:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and then they develop super addictive junk food.

• 2:05:18Speaker 03

  Family farms, man. Family farms, regenerative farms, support your local family farmer.

• 2:05:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you don't have to eat junk food.

• 2:05:25Speaker 03

  No, you don't.

• 2:05:27Joe Rogan?

  But also, you can.

• 2:05:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:30Joe Rogan?

  Just don't eat it all the time.

• 2:05:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:32Joe Rogan?

  Twinkies are great.

• 2:05:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:34Joe Rogan?

  They make you feel like shit, but while you're eating them, they're delicious.

• 2:05:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, I like, I think as far as junk food goes, I'm just a good old Snickers bar.

• 2:05:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, Snickers bar, great. So I don't even know if Snickers bar is like really junk food, because there's a place for Snickers bars. Like, if you're in the back country, say if you're hiking.

• 2:05:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:53Joe Rogan?

  Snickers bars is.

• 2:05:54Speaker 03

  Well, it has nuts, some, some protein.

• 2:05:57Joe Rogan?

  It's plenty of sugar in it, too, which you're gonna need if you're burning off a shit ton of calories. You're operating in a calorie deficit, and sometimes that's like exactly what you need. You know, you need like a little bit of protein, a lot of sugar, and you know, it helps fuel your muscles.

• 2:06:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:12Joe Rogan?

  And it gives you just simple, simple, simple calories.

• 2:06:15Speaker 03

  Well, you, I think I just heard you were talking about this, was it George Foreman? He used to drink a Coke after each.

• 2:06:22Joe Rogan?

  No, Floyd Mayweather.

• 2:06:23Speaker 03

  Floyd Mayweather.

• 2:06:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, drank Coca-Cola after he worked out.

• 2:06:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's, there's something to that, there's something to that, as hard as he worked out, just like immediate sugar after exercise to replenish the body. Yeah, my friend Corey Sanhagen was talking about that.

• 2:06:38Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:06:39Joe Rogan?

  And he does that.

• 2:06:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:40Joe Rogan?

  You know, he's, he's a big fan of like, because he's an MMA fighter, and so he'll do two and sometimes three workouts in a day.

• 2:06:48Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:06:48Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, like if you're gonna do that, you have to do something after a hard workout to replenish the muscles.

• 2:06:54Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:06:54Joe Rogan?

  In order to be able to work out.

• 2:06:56Speaker 03

  And the carbs then replenish the muscles.

• 2:06:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you need those sugars.

• 2:06:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you need fruit, you need fructose.

• 2:07:01Speaker 03

  But wouldn't you want it to be like a more pure like form of sugar than the, like, isn't there, are there different types of, like, refined sugar is not, you know?

• 2:07:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, perhaps, but also the, the, like, high sugar stuff gets in the muscles quicker.

• 2:07:18Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:07:18Joe Rogan?

  That's the argument for doing it like right after a workout.

• 2:07:21Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah. And is, when, what is right after? Is it like within 15 minutes?

• 2:07:25Joe Rogan?

  I think it's within 30. I think that's the argument. I mean, you have to like, look at, I mean, there's a lot of exercise scientists that I'm sure would have arguments one way or the other, which is interesting, so they can't all agree.

• 2:07:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:07:36Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 2:07:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:37Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of arguments.

• 2:07:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:39Joe Rogan?

  But you know, it also depends on what kind of exercise you're doing, you know? Are you a weightlifter or are you a marathon runner? You know, because we had Courtney Dolewalter on the podcast once, and she does ultra marathons, and. You know, uh, my friend Cam Haynes, who also does ultra marathons, says like, she's like one of the toughest human beings he's ever met in his fucking life, and she exists on sugar. She eats like candy and drinks beer. It's like, like it's not, uh,

• 2:08:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:06Joe Rogan?

  She's not like formed in a lab, like whatever willpower that she has that allows her to, you know, she's beaten people where she does like these 250 mile runs where the second place person is like eight hours behind her.

• 2:08:21Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:08:21Joe Rogan?

  Which is just bananas.

• 2:08:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's amazing.

• 2:08:23Joe Rogan?

  The idea of like, you could run 250 miles and then the second place, it takes them eight hours longer than you to run those 250 miles.

• 2:08:34Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:08:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:35Speaker 03

  That's gotta be genetic slightly too. I mean, it's gotta be like the VO2 max is pretty high.

• 2:08:40Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, genetic, it's body type for sure. You're not gonna get like a six foot five, 300 pound man that can do that.

• 2:08:47Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:08:48Joe Rogan?

  Because your, your form physically can't really, you, you, there's so much of a physical energy requirement to move that much mass in defiance of gravity over long periods of time. Most of those people that are ultra marathon runners are very slight, small people. Like Cam, when he gets ready to do ultra marathons, he loses like quite a bit of weight. You know, like, at one point in time, he was like in the high 180s and now he's down to like 160 and he'll get even lower than that.

• 2:09:18Speaker 03

  And how tall is he?

• 2:09:19Joe Rogan?

  He's my height, so he's like 5'8",

• 2:09:21Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:09:21Joe Rogan?

  5'7", so he'll get down to like 150 something when he's gonna do like a 250 mile race.

• 2:09:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:30Joe Rogan?

  But it's like a, that kinda mindset is a crazy mindset. That's like a very unusual punishment that you're gonna put yourself through voluntarily.

• 2:09:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. When Chris died, Chris Christopherson died, it hit me real hard and I went and ran, I just kept running like Forrest Gump and I ran, um, just 13.1 miles. I stopped when I got half a mile, half a marathon.

• 2:09:56Speaker 06

  And I was worked. I was like, oh, man, another thirteen point one miles for a marathon? That's a lot.

• 2:10:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, you build up to it, right? That's the whole thing.

• 2:10:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:10:05Joe Rogan?

  It's like, you know, like, if someone wants to work out tomorrow and they never worked it. Like, I've done this with a lot of my comedian friends. I take them to the gym, I go, look, we're not gonna break you. If you're gonna work out with me, it's gonna be very easy. And you're gonna maybe wanna do more, but I'm not gonna let you. Like, I'm gonna make you do a certain amount of pushups, a certain amount of bodyweight squats. We're gonna do a few of these and a few of those, and then we're done. We're done. And I don't want you to be tired. I want you to be just a little energized. And then, two days later, we'll do it again.

• 2:10:33Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:10:34Joe Rogan?

  And then, we'll do it again. And then, we'll do it again. And then, we'll do it again. And then, after a while, your body gets stronger. Like, now I'm gonna require more of you. Now, we're gonna actually exert.

• 2:10:41Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:10:41Joe Rogan?

  And now, okay, now you've got some muscle mass. Now, you've got some endurance. And now, we're gonna build on top of that. The way I describe it, I'm like, you're building a mountain, one layer of paint at a time.

• 2:10:50Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 2:10:50Joe Rogan?

  You know, and-

• 2:10:51Speaker 06

  That's a good way to describe it. Do you do the, um, the, uh, scans, the body scans?

• 2:10:57Joe Rogan?

  Or DEXA scan?

• 2:10:57Speaker 06

  The DEXA scan?

• 2:10:58Joe Rogan?

  I have in the past. I haven't done one in a long time, though.

• 2:11:01Speaker 00

  I just found this guy, Colin Anderson, two hundred and eighty-seven pounds, did a hundred mile.

• 2:11:07Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, that's crazy.

• 2:11:10Speaker 00

  Like, to break the world record.

• 2:11:12Joe Rogan?

  I like it says ultra large.

• 2:11:13Speaker 00

  That's the name of the little documentary they made.

• 2:11:16Joe Rogan?

  So he's two hundred and eighty pounds, and he ran an ultra marathon?

• 2:11:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:11:20Joe Rogan?

  Wow, that must have been hell.

• 2:11:24Joe Rogan?

  That's incredible.

• 2:11:25Speaker 00

  They lost at the end of the video there, too.

• 2:11:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God, I bet he lost fifty pounds.

• 2:11:28Speaker 00

  Here, it just checks right here.

• 2:11:29Joe Rogan?

  How much weight did he lose?

• 2:11:31Speaker 00

  About to find out. Skip ahead, spoiler alert.

• 2:11:33Joe Rogan?

  Spoiler alert, get to the end.

• 2:11:39Speaker 00

  Wait, he gained weight?

• 2:11:41Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:11:41Speaker 00

  It's two ninety-seven, it says.

• 2:11:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, what did he weigh before?

• 2:11:44Speaker 00

  It's two eighty-seven, is what I was seeing.

• 2:11:46Joe Rogan?

  What? How's that possible? Ten pound weight gain after a hundred pounds? Or a hundred miles around? What the fuck did you eat, bro?

• 2:11:55Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 2:11:56Speaker 03

  He must have been eating the whole time, like right, like every few miles.

• 2:12:01Joe Rogan?

  Smacking every five minutes. That's incredible though. I guess.

• 2:12:06Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, your body probably is doing everything it can to keep the water.

• 2:12:10Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I can only guess.

• 2:12:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:11Joe Rogan?

  That's pretty wild.

• 2:12:12Speaker 03

  That is interesting. That's something I didn't expect to see, you know?

• 2:12:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, to be that big around a hundred miles is very, very unusual. Most of those guys are super slight and, you know, they just keep on trucking.

• 2:12:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. Did you read that book a long time ago that came out? I think it was called Born to Run, but it was like about the Tarahumara tribe.

• 2:12:30Joe Rogan?

  Mmm.

• 2:12:30Speaker 03

  They run barefoot.

• 2:12:31Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:12:32Speaker 03

  And, um, I don't remember what it was actually called, um, but it was really interesting.

• 2:12:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they run through the mountains. It's like a South American tribe, right?

• 2:12:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, South American or even Mexican. I can't remember. I don't remember, but, um, but the Tarahumara is what they're called and they would run barefoot, you know?

• 2:12:50Joe Rogan?

  Wild.

• 2:12:51Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:12:52Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck?

• 2:12:53Speaker 03

  And, and apparently that, you know, they, uh, they would, they would also run, which was interesting, they would run happily. Like they would have smiles on their faces and they'd be light and that, and they said that that was like helped them sort of lightly grace themselves through the, the mindset that they had when they ran helped, helped them to outperform everyone else.

• 2:13:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're probably doing it all the time and in order to be able to run that much, again, you're building, slowly but surely building on top of what you had before.

• 2:13:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:13:23Joe Rogan?

  You can't, it's like if someone wants to just get out today and run a marathon, don't fucking do it.

• 2:13:28Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:13:29Joe Rogan?

  You're gonna blow your ankles apart. You're gonna fuck your knees up. You're gonna ruin your hips. Like, don't do that. Don't do that. Run around the block.

• 2:13:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:13:36Joe Rogan?

  And then the next day, maybe run twice around the block.

• 2:13:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:13:38Joe Rogan?

  But you have to get better the same way you got sick. Like you didn't get unhealthy, you know, in a day.

• 2:13:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:13:46Joe Rogan?

  You got unhealthy over the course of a long stretch of life.

• 2:13:49Speaker 03

  Do you run? Do you like to run?

• 2:13:50Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:13:51Speaker 03

  You don't run?

• 2:13:51Joe Rogan?

  No. I've done it.

• 2:13:53Speaker 03

  Uh-huh.

• 2:13:54Joe Rogan?

  Um, I have a knee issue and it hurts me.

• 2:13:56Speaker 03

  So do you swim instead?

• 2:13:57Joe Rogan?

  I swim. I do. But most of my, uh, cardiovascular exercise I do on a Airdyne bike.

• 2:14:04Speaker 03

  Oh, it's a bike.

• 2:14:05Joe Rogan?

  Or I hit the bag.

• 2:14:06Speaker 03

  But does the bike hurt your knee too?

• 2:14:08Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:14:09Speaker 03

  No, it doesn't?

• 2:14:09Joe Rogan?

  No, because you're not pounding.

• 2:14:10Speaker 03

  Right, there's no impact.

• 2:14:11Joe Rogan?

  I've had knee surgeries, you know, from all years of martial arts. I have like one knee that has meniscus missing. And I can run. I do, but I just don't think it's the best thing. You know, for someone who's got like, then again, there's Goggins, who has like fucking zero meniscus. And he's basically bone on bone, just running around, but he gets a bunch of operations. He's on like seven or eight operations to try to correct his knees that are fucked up from doing this. They put plates in there and shit and he wears them out, like it's nuts.

• 2:14:42Speaker 06

  I, you know, I respect the guy, but that's a lot.

• 2:14:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, I mean, he's ruining his body and he's hoping that science will get to a point where they could repair all that shit.

• 2:14:53Speaker 06

  Oh, interesting.

• 2:14:54Joe Rogan?

  Without him having to get a knee replacement.

• 2:14:55Speaker 06

  He's like placing it on that.

• 2:14:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's like you can get a knee replacement now, right? And you'll be in significantly less pain, but once science comes around, well, they're, they're getting closer and closer every day. To be able to completely regenerate cartilage, meniscus and all that tissue that you have inside your knee.

• 2:15:13Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 2:15:13Joe Rogan?

  That keeps it healthy. If you decide that you wanna get a knee replacement, that kinda stops all that because now you have an artificial knee.

• 2:15:22Speaker 06

  Right.

• 2:15:22Joe Rogan?

  And you can't regrow a knee once you've cut your knee out.

• 2:15:24Speaker 06

  No, you can't, yeah.

• 2:15:26Joe Rogan?

  And so this is why he's not doing that yet, I think. He's talked about it, he's like, maybe someday I'll have to, but right now it's just, he'll just deal with it.

• 2:15:33Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 2:15:34Joe Rogan?

  You look like you have to pee, do you?

• 2:15:36Speaker 06

  No.

• 2:15:36Joe Rogan?

  Okay, I thought you did. You're weezing around a little bit, cause I always like get sensitive to guests, like if they start moving around a little, I was like, oh, you gotta pee?

• 2:15:43Speaker 06

  Well, now let me take an assessment now.

• 2:15:45Joe Rogan?

  Cause we're like two hours in.

• 2:15:46Speaker 06

  We are two hours in.

• 2:15:47Joe Rogan?

  At least, yeah.

• 2:15:48Speaker 06

  I, I feel good though.

• 2:15:49Joe Rogan?

  Okay, cool.

• 2:15:50Speaker 06

  I don't have to pee, I just sorta like, yeah, I guess I've just been sitting a while.

• 2:15:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, I do that too, I do that too. Yeah, but for people out there that are thinking about like, oh, this is inspiring me, start slow. But do it again, make sure you don't just get inspired one day.

• 2:16:06Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:16:07Joe Rogan?

  Inspiration is great, discipline is better.

• 2:16:09Speaker 06

  You know what I did, which I loved, is...

• 2:16:14Speaker 03

  That really helped me was in like wherever I would walk, just in general. I would just do a little like jog instead of walking somewhere. I'd just go like.

• 2:16:25Joe Rogan?

  Just a little something.

• 2:16:26Speaker 03

  Just like this.

• 2:16:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:28Speaker 03

  It's kinda like, almost like this and I'd walk wherever I was going and and I started to do that every day. Just instead like, oh, you know, instead of walking to to get my coffee in the morning, I'd kinda do a little jog, you know? And throughout the day I'd do that and eventually I started like wanting to go out for a run, like my body just started warming up. And I kinda wanted to do that.

• 2:16:50Joe Rogan?

  Same concept.

• 2:16:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, same concept, build it up slowly.

• 2:16:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:16:54Joe Rogan?

  Just do something, people, I'm telling you, just go fucking do something, find a yoga class, do something.

• 2:16:59Speaker 03

  Treat your body like a temple.

• 2:17:02Joe Rogan?

  Just for your brain, you know, you gotta understand that there's a connection. If your body is sedentary, it's just sludge, it's all just. It's all blocked up.

• 2:17:11Speaker 03

  Yep, that's true.

• 2:17:12Joe Rogan?

  That fucks with your mind. The mentally unhealthiest people that I know are all terribly out of shape.

• 2:17:19Speaker 03

  Yep, and they, I mean, you know, there is a correlation for sure.

• 2:17:23Joe Rogan?

  One hundred percent, you know, this is this life, this life is, you've you've given, you've been given this meat vehicle. And you gotta maintain it.

• 2:17:31Speaker 03

  It's a good band name.

• 2:17:32Joe Rogan?

  Meat Vehicle, probably already exists. They probably have some banging songs. It's probably a hardcore band.

• 2:17:38Speaker 03

  That's definitely a hardcore band.

• 2:17:40Joe Rogan?

  Meat Vehicle.

• 2:17:42Speaker 03

  Wait, there's some other ones, oh, biblically accurate angel.

• 2:17:46Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, biblically accurate angel.

• 2:17:49Speaker 03

  Have you seen what a biblically accurate angel?

• 2:17:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they look like aliens.

• 2:17:53Speaker 03

  That's pretty cool.

• 2:17:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they look like geometric patterns.

• 2:17:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:56Joe Rogan?

  I always wonder what the, you know, Tucker Carlson's convinced that aliens and devils are, that's, that's what, you know, like, angels and and devils and aliens are all the same thing. He thinks that they're not visiting from somewhere else, that they've always been here and that there's some sort of spiritual aspect. To like the UFO encounter, UAP phenomenon.

• 2:18:21Speaker 03

  Oh, I see, yes, um, well, there's a lot of interesting pictures that are, you know, drawn. On cave walls.

• 2:18:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:18:32Speaker 03

  Things like that.

• 2:18:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, we've gone over a shit ton of them. And then also ancient religious art where it looks like people are in vehicles flying through the sky. I'm sure you've seen those too.

• 2:18:40Speaker 03

  I've seen those too.

• 2:18:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, what is that? Like, what are you trying to? There's no other stuff that you're in that thing that's fantastical. Everything else is like an accurate representation of life at that time. Except for these people that are in these flying things in the sky, like what is that?

• 2:18:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:18:57Joe Rogan?

  We just don't know, unfortunately.

• 2:18:59Speaker 03

  When I looked at all of the credible UFO reports, the only ones that really had no explanation, I actually asked ChatGPT, of all of the credible UFO, of all the UFO reports, which ones have not in some way been sort of explained? Right? And which ones are the ones that are still like, and the one that was not, the one that's still sort of outstanding is the USS Nimitz experience.

• 2:19:29Joe Rogan?

  Commander David Fravor.

• 2:19:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:19:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've had him on the podcast, talked about it.

• 2:19:32Speaker 03

  Have you really?

• 2:19:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, that seems to be the most compelling.

• 2:19:35Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. There's other ones, though.

• 2:19:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:39Joe Rogan?

  Ryan Graves, uh, he's another fighter pilot and that was off the East Coast. So the Nimitz is off the coast of San Diego. But off the East Coast, they upgraded their sensors in 2014 on the fighter jets and then immediately started encountering these things that defied known physics that were in the sky. And, you know, and these guys had these encounters with these things that were like a cube inside of a sphere.

• 2:20:03Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:20:03Joe Rogan?

  That's like motionless at 120 knot winds and no heat signature.

• 2:20:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:20:09Joe Rogan?

  Moving through the sky. They don't know what the fuck they are.

• 2:20:11Speaker 03

  What, what, what do you say to the theory that of the possibility that that is, um, sort of black ops? Like, uh, the idea that the SR-71, I think, um,

• 2:20:25Joe Rogan?

  Blackbird?

• 2:20:25Speaker 03

  The Blackbird.

• 2:20:28Speaker 03

  There is a, there's a company called Skunk Works, right? And they were, they were responsible for the declassification of that aircraft. And then I think the F-111 or the, the stealth bombers and, you know. But since then, and that was like 25 years ago or more, there have not been any more declassifications.

• 2:20:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a good argument.

• 2:20:50Speaker 03

  I, I just, I'm curious as to like what? You know, what in 25 years, based on the technology that we've been able to see that makes it to modern society, how much is, you know, held back and what we don't see, you know, it just interests me and I, I don't know, I don't have an answer, you know, I'm not asking myself whether, you know, I don't, I actually believe that it's almost unlikely that we have that technology, but because I feel like it would just take so much more than we may be capable of to cover it up, but maybe not, I don't know.

• 2:21:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't think it would. I think there's a high likelihood that a lot of this stuff is ours. And I think one of the reasons for that statement is that this stuff always happens over military airspace.

• 2:21:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:41Joe Rogan?

  East Coast and West Coast, like, so the East Coast stuff, the Ryan Graves stuff, they're doing it over areas where these fighter jet pilots run training missions.

• 2:21:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:49Joe Rogan?

  And then the same thing as the West Coast stuff.

• 2:21:50Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:21:51Joe Rogan?

  Like, that where it's off the coast of San Diego, which is like tons of military out there.

• 2:21:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:55Joe Rogan?

  I, I do believe that there's some programs that are operational and there's a great podcast, Jesse Michaels has an amazing YouTube channel that's, he's, he's covered this stuff like really extensively and he's a brilliant guy. He really understands it. And they were working on some anti-gravity technology in the 1960s.

• 2:22:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:13Joe Rogan?

  And most likely they continued that work.

• 2:22:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, artificial horizon technology and stuff like that, you know, that, that, I mean, it's got to have come far since then.

• 2:22:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and there's, the idea that they could hide all that stuff, no, they could never hide it. Of course they could, of course they could. They definitely could. You being naive. You being naive as to how much the government can hide.

• 2:22:32Speaker 03

  No, I'm, I'm only asking the question.

• 2:22:33Joe Rogan?

  Not you, I don't mean you, I mean, people that say that.

• 2:22:35Speaker 03

  I actually, pretty much, that's where I lean towards when it comes to that.

• 2:22:40Joe Rogan?

  I think some of it, but some of it also could be from somewhere else. And I think some of it just exhibits, like, the, the Nimitz one, okay, this is 2004, so this Tic Tac goes from more than 50,000 feet above sea level to sea level in less than a second.

• 2:22:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:58Joe Rogan?

  Like, seven eighths of a second.

• 2:23:00Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:23:01Joe Rogan?

  Like, that's crazy.

• 2:23:02Speaker 03

  That is, and you're right.

• 2:23:03Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. What is that?

• 2:23:04Speaker 03

  And it does, it does.

• 2:23:08Speaker 03

  It changes it when you remember how long ago these things were being seen.

• 2:23:13Joe Rogan?

  Right, because this is 2004, but then you go back to the 1960s if they're really working on anti-gravity technology back then, it's possible that they could have created a drone.

• 2:23:22Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:23:23Joe Rogan?

  The thing is, like, could a human being survive inside of those things at those extreme speeds? Well, the question is, like, what are they experiencing in that? Because if it's a gravity device, if it's moving, if it's manipulating gravity, so it might not have G-forces at all. It might be operating in a completely different paradigm.

• 2:23:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, there may be sort of just, you know, trillions of calc- of alternate sort of,

• 2:23:53Speaker 03

  you know, momentum shifts in the outside protective layer that balance out whatever's happening on the inside to the point where, you know, they're using this crazy technology.

• 2:24:03Joe Rogan?

  That's also why the argument is that they're blurry. Like, so a lot of the photographs of these things are blurry. It might be because they're actually existing in some sort of a gravity, like, void.

• 2:24:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:13Joe Rogan?

  And what you're seeing is not exactly what's there. You're seeing it through like a dirty windshield.

• 2:24:19Speaker 03

  I've seen some stuff.

• 2:24:21Joe Rogan?

  Have you?

• 2:24:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:22Joe Rogan?

  What have you seen?

• 2:24:23Speaker 03

  When I was in Maui,

• 2:24:26Speaker 03

  twice I've seen something that I could not explain. The one time, I looked up and about nine of us were hanging out. And we all looked up at the same time to see an orange orb. And it was probably, it looked like it was 100 yards away. Maybe 200, just floating, kind of observing. And then, I swear, it seemed like as soon as enough people saw it,

• 2:24:52Speaker 03

  it went whoosh, and then it went whoosh. And it moved like nothing else I thought possible at the time. It went out of the atmosphere, you know. And it was crazy, faster than any drone. And that, this was back in like 2000.

• 2:25:08Speaker 03

  Four, two thousand, five, maybe, you know, so it was very, we were all, you know, young. I was maybe a little teenager, so it was probably like two thousand and six, you know, but it was like, it was crazy, I'm telling you.

• 2:25:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:22Speaker 03

  You know, uh, and, and uh.

• 2:25:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, a lot of them happened near the ocean, too, which is interesting.

• 2:25:27Speaker 03

  Uh, and another one, I was out on Lanai, and we were hanging out with some friends, we were laying down on the lawn, and, and when you're out in Lanai, on the backside of Lanai, there's no light pollution at all. And so you have just this big, giant fishbowl of stars, and it's the most incredible, it's like you're sitting in a.

• 2:25:44Joe Rogan?

  Spaceship.

• 2:25:44Speaker 03

  In a, in a spaceship, exactly, and you feel that you're on Spaceship Earth at the time, you know, like you are on that rock hurtling through space at that point. And I saw this, we all scared the girls. We all saw this pulsing colored thing go from one side of the horizon to the other.

• 2:26:04Speaker 03

  But in a, in a very, like, it was like pulsing different colors, and it was like really interesting. And so, you know, who knows what that could have been, but it was quite interesting.

• 2:26:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, the vast majority of the ocean floor is unexplored.

• 2:26:17Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:26:18Joe Rogan?

  And so this is the theory, is that if you were gonna set up a base here to observe human beings, if you came from somewhere else, you would probably do it in the ocean, especially if you have the kind, the kind of technology that allowed them to travel here from other star systems would also allow them to not be intimidated whatsoever by the ocean.

• 2:26:36Speaker 03

  By the pressures, I mean, that's, I guess, the, the deep pressure.

• 2:26:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:40Speaker 03

  Is what would be the, uh, you know, it's almost the opposite of being in space, you know, the vacuum, and then you have the deep.

• 2:26:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:26:48Speaker 03

  Pressure of, of, of, you know, that, that, like, you know.

• 2:26:53Joe Rogan?

  But there's videos of these things going in the water and not creating a splash.

• 2:26:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:58Joe Rogan?

  So, like, what is that, is it a hologram, so is it not a physical object? Or are they doing something that allows them to not interact with any physical thing on Earth? Like some sort of a, a void that they travel through? So they can go through the trees, this is like, part of Jacques Vallée's research, too, in one of his books, that was really fascinating, was this woman observed this like egg-shaped thing, and when it took off, it went through the trees, but it didn't hurt the trees. But it was on the ground like as a physical object and when it took off and went through the trees.

• 2:27:34Speaker 03

  Well, I wonder if then, you know, we're talking about like bending spacetime.

• 2:27:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:38Speaker 03

  At that point, are you creating some sort of like

• 2:27:45Speaker 03

  warp?

• 2:27:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're creating some sort of a warp.

• 2:27:47Speaker 03

  Warp drive.

• 2:27:48Joe Rogan?

  That's the idea.

• 2:27:49Speaker 03

  You know, where where you're just like warping space and time around.

• 2:27:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:27:53Speaker 03

  A centralized location and you sort of have to be, you know, use sort of the you know, the these like different sort of exotic forms of matter and having an understanding of exotic matter, which we're now just starting to understand that there are like are these exotic matter types that, you know, that that work in these weird ways. But as as we, if you read about it now, the only information available is that we're only like cracking the surface of the understanding of these types of matter.

• 2:28:23Joe Rogan?

  Maybe we are.

• 2:28:24Speaker 03

  Hundreds of thousands of years away from understanding that.

• 2:28:26Joe Rogan?

  But I mean, you know, that's that old saying that any technology that's sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic. Was it Carl Sagan said that? I forget who said that.

• 2:28:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:36Joe Rogan?

  But, yeah, I mean, if you're looking at something from

• 2:28:41Joe Rogan?

  a thousand years from now, it would seem like magic. I mean, if if we continue, we don't blow ourselves up and science and AI continue to figure out more compelling uses of universal energy, like whatever background energy that we have.

• 2:28:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:59Joe Rogan?

  Who knows? Who knows what what human beings will be capable of? So you got to imagine if something's visiting us

• 2:29:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29:05Joe Rogan?

  from somewhere else, especially if they have artificial superintelligence.

• 2:29:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29:11Joe Rogan?

  If they've traversed this journey that we're on, if they've gotten to the point where whatever we're currently investigating, whatever they're working on right now in terms of like superintelligent AI, what if they've gone through that and they're a thousand years more advanced? All that stuff would be probably simple for them to be able to go through the water, to have these transmedium crafts that are capable of flying in the air, through the water.

• 2:29:37Speaker 03

  Right. Well, the the interesting question for ourselves is is how do we get to a place as a society to where we can trust in?

• 2:29:50Speaker 03

  Our science, we can trust.

• 2:29:52Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:29:53Speaker 03

  To say that we trusted enough to fund it, you know.

• 2:29:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, you get, that's not trusting the science, the problem is the human beings that are in possession of the science.

• 2:30:01Speaker 03

  Well, but that's what I mean, like, how do we restore faith in that? And, and because there are, there, you know, it's not all bullshit. There is real, you know, like, we, we, we wouldn't exist where we are without the science that has brought us to where we are.

• 2:30:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, technology.

• 2:30:17Speaker 03

  And technology.

• 2:30:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:18Speaker 03

  And, and so, understanding and trusting and, and, and figuring out how to restore faith in certain institutions that we have, because we need them to survive and to keep going, you know. So, it's like, it's like not tearing down the airplane while it's falling. You have to repair the airplane from inside, you know, and then keep it flying, if you can, you know. So, is there a way to, like, right the ship while we're in it?

• 2:30:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think the problem is, a lot of this stuff is military funding, right? So, a lot of the applications for any sort of, like, super advanced technology is gonna be weapon systems.

• 2:30:56Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:30:56Joe Rogan?

  And that's what everybody's terrified of. What they're terrified of is that you're going to develop more efficient ways to kill people.

• 2:31:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:31:04Joe Rogan?

  And that's really the only way these things get funded, you know, they're not gonna-

• 2:31:08Speaker 03

  I know, that's the problem.

• 2:31:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:09Speaker 03

  I'm just what I'm saying, I'm like, well, how do we, how do we switch it so that we can, you know, have people in power that really are looking out for the future of humanity?

• 2:31:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:20Speaker 03

  And then have people that actually want that, and it's because some people are gonna have to take sacrifices for that. You know, in, in a way, and I mean, people high up are gonna have to say, well, I'm gonna have to, you know, get paid a little less because this, you know.

• 2:31:37Joe Rogan?

  It's a great struggle, Lucas.

• 2:31:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, it really is.

• 2:31:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it really is.

• 2:31:40Speaker 03

  It's a great struggle.

• 2:31:42Joe Rogan?

  It's the great struggle of, like, people in power, you know, don't necessarily deserve power. And, and the kind of people that you want running the world aren't interested in the job.

• 2:31:52Speaker 03

  Mostly, yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 2:31:55Speaker 03

  Well, yeah.

• 2:31:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, hey brother, I really enjoyed talking to you. Thank you very much for being here.

• 2:32:00Speaker 03

  Appreciate you having me, Joe.

• 2:32:02Joe Rogan?

  And I encourage everybody to go see you live because you're fucking amazing.

• 2:32:05Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 2:32:06Joe Rogan?

  It was really incredible performance at the McConaughey thing. And I wish you all the best, man.

• 2:32:11Speaker 03

  I wish you too.

• 2:32:12Joe Rogan?

  It's been cool being your friend, too.

• 2:32:13Speaker 03

  It has.

• 2:32:13Joe Rogan?

  Enjoyed talking to you.

• 2:32:14Speaker 03

  I enjoyed talking to you, too.

• 2:32:15Joe Rogan?

  All right.

• 2:32:15Speaker 03

  That was fun.

• 2:32:15Joe Rogan?

  Thank you.

• 2:32:16Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 2:32:16Joe Rogan?

  Tell everybody where they can find you. Where's the best place to find your music?

• 2:32:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, on all the platforms, of course. We're there and we're gonna, we got a tour posted. We're gonna come.

• 2:32:28Joe Rogan?

  There it is, right there. Live in concert. Oh, you're going everywhere. You're like Johnny Cash.

• 2:32:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, we're about to put out new dates, too, for the fall. We're gonna be all over, east coast, the west coast. We're gonna be everywhere.

• 2:32:41Joe Rogan?

  Hell, yeah. Sorry, Kansas City, that shit sold out.

• 2:32:44Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, that was a while ago.

• 2:32:45Joe Rogan?

  Santa Fe, sold out. Yeah.

• 2:32:46Speaker 03

  That was, the ones coming up, Charlottesville, Virginia, Allentown, Pennsylvania.

• 2:32:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, those are May.

• 2:32:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:32:53Joe Rogan?

  Okay. So, there's plenty of stuff coming up for people that wanna go see you live.

• 2:32:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, Monchanah's gonna be great.

• 2:32:57Joe Rogan?

  Monchanah, Big Sky.

• 2:32:58Speaker 03

  Big Sky.

• 2:32:59Joe Rogan?

  Park City, Utah.

• 2:33:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, there you go.

• 2:33:01Joe Rogan?

  Wyoming. All right.

• 2:33:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, man, thank you.

• 2:33:03Joe Rogan?

  Thank you.

• 2:33:04Speaker 03

  Appreciate your help.

• 2:33:04Joe Rogan?

  It was fun. Enjoyed it. All right. Bye, everybody.