Is Ferrari Heading Toward Failure? How President Trump will Change Cars! & MORE!

NEW DOUGSTORE https://merch.carsandbids.com/ Have a question you want answered on the podcast next week? Ask HERE https://crsnbds.com/PODQUESTIONS Welcome to THIS CAR POD! Doug DeMuro & Friends offers weekly expert insight and opinion, on the breaking automotive stories, the car market, and audience Q&A. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Doug DeMuro?

  Hello and welcome to this car pod.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  I'm Kenan.

• 0:08Speaker 02

  I'm Filippo.

• 0:08Doug DeMuro?

  There's a lot to talk about. Let's start with the news.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Ah, yes. My news story. Something exciting to begin with. So Lewis Hamilton is now driving for Ferrari. Now, we knew he was driving for Ferrari, but this weekend in particular, he officially started and he drove the Formula One car for the very first time. But he took an amazing set of photos at the factory, not with the newest Ferrari, not with the most cutting edge, with the great one, the F40.

• 0:31Doug DeMuro?

  There's a lot of stuff I want to say about this picture. And I want to start with the fact that done even a little differently, it could have been like a subject of mockery. But instead you look at this and you're like, damn, this guy is going to come and beat everybody. This guy is, this guy is going to show up and just run the table.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  Yes. Well, that's the hope. Um, I've been a Ferrari fan for my entire life. I've been watching Formula One for 17 years or 18 years. And in that time Ferrari has not won a world championship. Been 17 years of failure and we got so close and they'd screwed up. But Lewis Hamilton, the, the most successful driver in history is now driving for the team. So like a lot of Ferrari fans have a lot of hope. Now, I personally know Ferrari and like, I'm not so sure.

• 1:14Doug DeMuro?

  But Lewis, but you understand what this picture is saying.

• 1:17Speaker 01

  I know what this is saying. I'm here.

• 1:19Doug DeMuro?

  By the way, don't you agree that if you just described this picture, you'd be like, that sounds really dumb. But then you look at it and you're like, oh my God, don't kill my family, Lewis. Please spare my children.

• 1:29Speaker 02

  Here's a dude sitting in a jacket in front of an F40 in front of a house.

• 1:32Doug DeMuro?

  Like there was no attempt to do.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  The impact. You, this is.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  The impact is there.

• 1:36Doug DeMuro?

  There was no attempt to do the picture in the dry or in the sun. And that's kind of fits with the image. It's like there, I've come to bring the thunder clouds. I also just absolutely loved the fact that he chose the F40, which was obviously his choice. Ferrari would have given anything to have their new star in front of the SF90, which they're desperately trying to sell. And instead he's like, nah, I'm going to do a good one. I'm not, I'm going to actually do a good one. Thanks so much though.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  Remember when you built great cars? This, I'm going to go the best of them. But nonetheless, it is very exciting. I am not as optimistic because Ferrari. Biggest problem has been their strategy. They get in their own way and like that's what has created their problems. The cars have been good. The drivers have been excellent. It's them. And so I'm, I do wonder what they showed Lewis Hamilton to get him to leave Mercedes. I mean, Lewis has nothing to prove in his career. Euros. Euros. Yeah, but he already made so much money. It's not money. Yeah, but he made a lot. The prestige of driving for the brand is one thing, which in all Formula One drivers' minds is something you want to drive for Ferrari. They play for the Yankees. But it's like, it is, yes, it is a, yes, that is true. For all of our viewers that aren't, you know, F1 fans.

• 2:41Doug DeMuro?

  Can I ask you a question about Lewis?

• 2:42Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:43Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know anything about Formula One, but I've done cursory research on the topic. Lewis may be the most successful driver in history. I personally can't verify it because I don't know.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  Seven, seven world championships.

• 2:52Doug DeMuro?

  However, he's 40 years old.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:54Doug DeMuro?

  And hasn't won a championship in five years. So 20 was his last year. So I don't know how they count years, but that's five or four or some, some, some amount of years. So he's 40. In my world, in the sports world, the world where we like the Yankees, Derek Jeter.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Okay. He's a Red Sox fan.

• 3:12Doug DeMuro?

  Yep.

• 3:14Doug DeMuro?

  40 is kind of starting to get.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Fernando Alonso is older, I believe, and still races in this sport. Like Lewis.

• 3:20Doug DeMuro?

  You get the point I'm making.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, but here's the thing about Lewis. It's like LeBron James. LeBron James is also 40 and he's still a critical producer like on the Lakers.

• 3:29Doug DeMuro?

  When Jordan was at his prime, he was like 26 and he was making baskets over everybody's head.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  I don't know if it's that technology has changed or these athletes take a lot better care of themselves, but I mean. They do. It's, it's very different now, but nonetheless, Lewis is, I, I am very curious to see how he performs in the car. The other thing is that Lewis is not someone who adapts to the, the cars very well. They adapt the cars to him, which Ferrari will do. But like when George Russell joined Mercedes.

• 3:54Doug DeMuro?

  Are you not a little bit anxious at the fact that like maybe they've gone after this guy who is this major legend and he's maybe a little on the other side of the hill?

• 4:02Speaker 01

  My, that's exactly what happened with Sebastian Vettel when he drove for Ferrari was that he won four world championships, went to Ferrari and still did well, but he didn't win a championship.

• 4:11Doug DeMuro?

  What happened to Vettel, by the way?

• 4:12Speaker 01

  He retired.

• 4:12Doug DeMuro?

  But he's got to be younger than Lewis.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  He is. I'm pretty sure he is.

• 4:17Doug DeMuro?

  So Lewis is out here, by the way.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  But Sebastian won four. Lewis won seven.

• 4:21Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but when I was a kid. When I was a young adult, Sebastian won like every race. Boom, Sebastian.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  For four seasons, yes.

• 4:28Doug DeMuro?

  Those were four informative seasons for Doug. Lewis Hamilton, by the way, apparently he's a pretty good race car driver and in this thing, he looks like a mafia Don.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  Pretty good.

• 4:36Doug DeMuro?

  Honestly, is I think what they were going for.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  And it worked.

• 4:38Doug DeMuro?

  And there's some Italy stuff going on. However, his biggest claim to fame, I think we all agree, is that his dad crashed a Carrera GT into a playground.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  His dad did do that.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  So he did do that.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  Well, it also in the news this week, he has added his mother's maiden name to his name.

• 4:55Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, so the Carrera GT crash, you were aware of the crash?

• 4:58Speaker 01

  I remember it well.

• 4:59Doug DeMuro?

  There was a playground, there was a Carrera GT, there was Lewis Hamilton's dad.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Let's not focus on his dad's driving career, let's focus on.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  None, this is very big news. The Italian government actually sent a lot of police to hold back crowds too and stuff just because there's so much excitement around this. Because you, although you weren't a high-performance car, you can recognize that in Italy, there are like three religions, basically, and Ferrari is the second largest behind the Catholic Church.

• 5:22Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  Like, so it's a huge, it's a huge deal and I am very excited. My dad is a huge Lewis fan and we, for the first time ever, will root for the same team, which will be really cool.

• 5:32Doug DeMuro?

  Because he's been rooting for Mercedes-Benz and/or Red Bull and/or.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  No, Lewis has driven for two teams ever, McLaren Mercedes.

• 5:37Doug DeMuro?

  We don't know those. Honestly, I thought they were the same because they made the SLR. Remember the one with no roof?

• 5:41Speaker 01

  There was a time, there was a time, but yes, and they're separate teams and that's who.

• 5:45Doug DeMuro?

  There was one with no roof and I'm not talking about the Roadster. All right.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Let's go Lewis.

• 5:48Doug DeMuro?

  This is very big. We're all very excited. The Formula One season ended about two days ago. It starts again about two days from now, so we will.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  That is how it feels.

• 5:55Doug DeMuro?

  We will find out soon whether this picture, he's really the mafia Don that he seems to be, or if he's just a guy who's maybe a little too old.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Prediction now, I think that this year won't be the year that matters. It'll be next year when the formula changes because there's a huge update that comes and I think that's the technology Ferrari showed him to get him excited.

• 6:10Doug DeMuro?

  Formula Two. Right now they got Formula One. They got change of formula, Formula Two.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  That exists? Formula Two is a thing of its own?

• 6:18Speaker 02

  Do you think we can get him to race in a F40 in a race?

• 6:20Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, man.

• 6:21Speaker 02

  Imagine, imagine if you have all the other Formula One cars and then an F40.

• 6:23Doug DeMuro?

  You know, on the subject, since we're talking about this, I can't believe we didn't put this in as a news story. Should we talk about the F40 situation this week?

• 6:28Speaker 02

  There may have been some crash.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  There were, there were some crashes that also involved Formula One drivers.

• 6:33Doug DeMuro?

  Formula, Ferrari F40, one of the great supercars of our generation. And by our generation, I mean the previous, to be honest.

• 6:41Doug DeMuro?

  How many did they make?

• 6:41Speaker 01

  1,311.

• 6:43Doug DeMuro?

  We don't like any of the supercars in our generation, so we're gonna go back to the previous. Anyway, so, uh, one of them crashed in the UK. It was on a wet road, a cold day, and so the driver floored it. It's being said that it was a mechanic driving. Whenever one of these things happens, it was always someone else driving, which I find interesting. Either that's because someone else doesn't know how to drive. You know, the last crash of an F40 was in a tunnel in Germany, do you remember this? And it was someone driving a car from like Mecatronix or something.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Yup.

• 7:07Doug DeMuro?

  And that was one of their employees.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  The Gas Monkey Garage F40, same thing, the mechanic was driving the car.

• 7:11Doug DeMuro?

  And so then the Lando Norris one, so that happened, the car in the UK flips over, and supposedly it's the highest mileage F40 in the world, who knows? And then, in Monaco, footage has just appeared of Lando Norris, who's apparently another Formula One driver.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  From McLaren.

• 7:25Doug DeMuro?

  We don't know. He's got an F40, and someone crashed it, but apparently not him, again, but who knows? Uh, spun it into a barrier.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  You should be a bigger fan of him. He also, uh, he has some very serious cars, Amira, Carrera GT.

• 7:36Doug DeMuro?

  He's my favorite F1 driver.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  He's got some good stuff.

• 7:38Doug DeMuro?

  And only because of the road cars that he has, and I know nothing about them. I've never seen him drive.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  He's a very good driver.

• 7:44Doug DeMuro?

  So, but anyway, F40s keep crashing. Um, what's, what are we gonna do about this? Kenan? Over to you.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  Well, don't floor it when the road is wet. Good start, you know.

• 7:56Doug DeMuro?

  That was wild. So, when I take my Carrera GT out, which has traction control, but not stability control, even then, I am incredibly careful when it's wet and cold. I drove it on Christmas Eve this year, and it was, it had like missed it, and it was chilly, and I was very cautious. And watching, I would never floor it.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Never in a million years.

• 8:13Doug DeMuro?

  And watching that video, in the F40 where the dude floors it on a wet road, I'm sitting there like, were you trying to? I would never, it's impossible for me to explain.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  The only time you can floor an F40 is when you're in 5th gear at low RPM and the turbos aren't working. And even then.

• 8:28Doug DeMuro?

  I think you can floor one when, when the tires are warmed up. My suspicion in the Lando crash, just watching it, is that the tires were cold. The car wasn't quite going straight, but you can see that he steps on it, and I, my suspicion is that road is not that far to Monaco, the car didn't have enough time to warm up. Now, the Lando car was not heavily damaged. I've actually seen pictures of it over the last month or so, driving around damaged. So I think the accident happened like a while ago, but my assumption is that in both cases, it was cold tires. The car has no aids. It might be an old car, but it's still 480 horsepower, rear wheel drive car with no driver aids.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I think the other thing to take in. So, I mean, you learned your lesson earlier, like the Ford GT is kind of a handful.

• 9:08Doug DeMuro?

  I almost wrecked the Ford GT once, probably six months into owning it on an on-ramp, cold tires, dead straight. I floored it and the car got, the car got squirrely and I barely, barely saved it. This was in Orange County.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  I think there are a couple of things to take into account. One is like, you still have to show these cars a lot of respect. Like when it says there are no driver aids, people are like, oh, it's so cool. It's like, no, that means there's nothing to help you. So you are at your own risk. Swim, you know, safely. The other thing I think is that it also showed, and you sent some other videos to our friend group though, it shows how quickly.

• 9:38Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. That 812 video in London, I think is like the world changing video because if you watch that, you can tell instantly just how fast. And that's a cold tire video, no question.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  So there's a video of a guy in an 812, super fast. You might be familiar with this car. He's going straight on, on road in London, looked like a cold London morning as they all are. And he gets on the throttle, straight line, steering wheel straight, and the car just snaps.

• 10:00Doug DeMuro?

  And he's going maybe 40?

• 10:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. Stability control, surely.

• 10:04Doug DeMuro?

  I probably was off, something he probably was off, is my guess.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe.

• 10:08Doug DeMuro?

  However, the point is, it can happen really fast. You got to, with performance cars like that, you got to roll under the throttle, you got to wait until the tires are worn, and you just have to be damn careful. And if you have any situation where you're able to like, find an empty parking lot that's privately owned and do some, figure out some limits, that day we did at, at Thermal was tremendous, or wherever it was, at Chuck Walla, was tremendously instructive for me. I learned limits and non-limit. The car actually, the limits were actually further than I thought. I'm cautious, because the cars are so valuable. But you can't, this stuff.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  Well, the other thing to keep in mind, Lando Norris is a young Formula One driver, and he lost it.

• 10:44Doug DeMuro?

  Well, maybe. Supposedly he wasn't driving.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Allegedly. But even so, the car is also no power steering. It's hard to correct. It's a big steering wheel. It's hard. Like, there, there's a lot with an F40 you have to take into consideration. The brakes aren't that great also. So like.

• 10:55Doug DeMuro?

  Brakes are bad.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  So you just have to show these, especially the old cars, you really have to show them respect. So please drive your F40s carefully.

• 11:02Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, it's interesting.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  We can't lose, we can't lose F40s.

• 11:05Doug DeMuro?

  I'm not, not looking for an F40.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  Man, look at that picture.

• 11:08Doug DeMuro?

  If someone out there has a cheap F40, you call me. I'm talking, I'm talking about the wrecked one, maybe. Call me up. My number is 608. No, I'm kidding. That's Felipe. All right, uh, look, give us our next news story. Canoe.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  Canoe.

• 11:21Doug DeMuro?

  Canoe is a manufacturer of electric van vehicles, van type situations. You can see right here, here's a canoe. It looks like a Previa, but it doesn't look like one anymore because...

• 11:29Speaker 02

  Canoe has filed for bankruptcy.

• 11:31Doug DeMuro?

  Chapter 7. Canoe's done. They don't have any funding. It's over.

• 11:34Speaker 02

  They've been done for like a couple of years.

• 11:36Doug DeMuro?

  We had hope.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  We didn't have hope. No. We, we had dreams. We, we wanted to believe, but it didn't stretch to the point of hope.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  Do you think it's perhaps their vehicle looks like something they keep a hamster in?

• 11:48Speaker 02

  It's incredible. And they were, they went, they also did a ton of work on like autonomous driving. The thought for a while was that you could kind of drive it at the direction, I think, with something they claimed at some point. Cause you didn't have a steering wheel in autonomous driving.

• 11:59Doug DeMuro?

  I think this thing is the coolest thing in the world. It's a shame it didn't work out. Why do all the cool EVs fail and then we're stuck with the, the Volvo EX40?

• 12:08Speaker 02

  Well, the EX40 doesn't exist yet. It only exists in 2025. They renamed the EX40 research.

• 12:12Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, Lord. You get my point. Like, like, like there's all these cool EV idea situations. Like you and me have been waiting for our Faraday future. We've had a deposit in for quite some time.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  There was one at PCM, yeah.

• 12:24Doug DeMuro?

  And instead, instead, what we get is the base model Hyundai Ioniq 5.

• 12:29Speaker 02

  I think that there's two big reasons. One is that the people that are creating these, I think, have a specific vision and are want to execute on that vision, and that's costly. Instead of just saying, hey, what components can I get? Let me build an electric car. As a lot of other experts have done.

• 12:42Doug DeMuro?

  So how come Rivian succeeded?

• 12:44Speaker 02

  The second piece is...

• 12:45Doug DeMuro?

  This is as cool as Rivian's.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  Cooler. The second piece is that I think, um, sometimes when you want to do something that avant garde, the market isn't quite there. The investors might not be there yet either.

• 12:55Doug DeMuro?

  You're saying the markets aren't there for a...

• 12:57Speaker 02

  They're too aggressive.

• 12:58Doug DeMuro?

  For a half windowed, egg shaped bus that's...

• 13:02Speaker 02

  Which I love dearly, but yeah.

• 13:04Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  There's a little bit too much new there, I think.

• 13:06Doug DeMuro?

  You know, I saw my first electric Volkswagen bus on the road the other day. I don't remember what it's called.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  That Buzz. ID Buzz.

• 13:11Doug DeMuro?

  ID Buzz. Yeah.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Did a video on it.

• 13:14Doug DeMuro?

  Well, I mean, call it what we want. We're going to call it the electric bus. You know what? Going forward, Akira, we got two things in the pod. Akira is Akira.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 13:22Doug DeMuro?

  And the Volkswagen electric bus is the Volkswagen electric bus.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  We got three. Let's make some shirts.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  All automatics are tips.

• 13:27Doug DeMuro?

  All automatics are tips, except we're going to, we're going to call some DCTs.

• 13:31Speaker 02

  Just to really screw with people. With no cord.

• 13:33Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, anyway, no, it's a BMW thing.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  I know.

• 13:37Doug DeMuro?

  Okay. Anyway, the point is, I saw one of those ID bus electrics.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  Took them five years longer than they said.

• 13:45Doug DeMuro?

  How cool. That is the coolest thing in the world. That car at 54 grand is the coolest thing in the world.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  You didn't, because you'd never got to see it from the outside when you were driving around in it. You were behind me once on the way to work and it looks so cool.

• 13:58Doug DeMuro?

  It is so cool. I've seen a couple on the road. Now, they're also pretty common in Europe, although in Europe, they sell a cargo version with like stealies. And those are like what people are getting. And so it has this like psychedelic color scheme, but it's a cargo van with stealies. It doesn't really work perfectly, but anyway, I love it when and I want one. And so they're 90 million dollars, but I think they'll be 50 grand in about a year. And that's when we buy.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  That's when you buy, yeah.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  It's so Southern California. It's perfect for here.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  California. It's all one across 1500 miles.

• 14:28Doug DeMuro?

  So the answer is we can't have a canoe, but we can have an ID bus.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  ID buzz.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  Not all is bad.

• 14:34Speaker 02

  Volkswagen.

• 14:34Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. Electric Volkswagen. I wouldn't.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Volkswagen.

• 14:38Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know. It's too complicated.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  It's hard to be a startup brand. It's hard to sell a product that is maybe out of the mainstream. It's hard to finance that. And canoe is very sadly failed.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  Canoe.

• 14:49Speaker 02

  Then again, sort of, they didn't do any of that.

• 14:51Doug DeMuro?

  Canoe cannot. Okay, next news story. That was all we needed. Okay, the Detroit Auto Show is going on right now, as you can see from the crowded show floor.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  It is.

• 15:00Doug DeMuro?

  Were either of you aware of the Detroit Auto Show was happening?

• 15:03Speaker 01

  Genuinely, no. I had no idea.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  I knew, but only for one reason. I read an interview with the new Dodge Ram.

• 15:10Doug DeMuro?

  Tim Kaneskis.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, who's great. But the way I found out was I was reading that interview and said, we talked to him on the floor of the Detroit Auto Show. I was like, alright.

• 15:18Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, so the Detroit Auto Show is going on right now. You'd be forgiven for not remembering.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 15:22Doug DeMuro?

  It used to be that when the Detroit Auto Show happened, all the major debuts, it was like, oh my god.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  Second of the year?

• 15:29Doug DeMuro?

  The 2002 Chevy Trailblazer probably debuted at the Detroit Auto Show.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  We did a video on Cars and Bitch recently going around looking at like these old.

• 15:36Doug DeMuro?

  Like.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  It was astonishing, the stuff.

• 15:38Doug DeMuro?

  No, it was the first auto show of the year. It happened every year in January, because the theory was that it gave people something to do in the winter in Detroit. And then COVID hit and auto shows are done. And but this is not intended to entirely be a knock on the Detroit Auto Show specifically, which is technically called the.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  American International Auto Show.

• 15:55Doug DeMuro?

  Well done. Have you ever been?

• 15:56Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah, been twice.

• 15:59Doug DeMuro?

  But auto shows in general, which it's just over.

• 16:02Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 16:02Doug DeMuro?

  They just are not, we talked about this with CES, but like just generally, I was astonished to remember, oh, the Detroit Auto Show was happening.

• 16:09Speaker 02

  Right. There was a time.

• 16:11Doug DeMuro?

  This is it.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  10 years ago, 15 years ago, when I could tell you when.

• 16:15Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  Chicago was coming up, when the LA Auto Show was coming up, when Geneva was coming up.

• 16:18Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. Right. Yeah. New York was in April.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:23Doug DeMuro?

  LA was in November, you knew them all.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  You vaguely.

• 16:25Doug DeMuro?

  The automakers specifically held debuts until they could show it at the auto show. They all fought for attention. And then there was like a winner of the day.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  Those were the days when you would go on whatever blog you preferred and you would get all the news of that.

• 16:37Doug DeMuro?

  You know, if you go into the automotive media people's Facebook group, they all talk wistfully about those days of yours.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  Us too.

• 16:45Doug DeMuro?

  I actually disagree. I think it's better now. It's better to have year-round debuts.

• 16:49Speaker 02

  Way better.

• 16:49Doug DeMuro?

  It's better to see it online, which we're already doing.

• 16:51Speaker 02

  It's way better.

• 16:51Doug DeMuro?

  Flying to the auto shows was always a silly proposition.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Getting content out of those.

• 16:56Doug DeMuro?

  Getting content in an auto show, especially in the world of video now, where everybody wants to do a video with a new car that's being shown and you only get six minutes and people are milling around. I'm over it. I'm done.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  What we're doing is better, but it was an event. It was like a notable moment.

• 17:10Doug DeMuro?

  And to be clear, I think the auto shows will still be events that people attend. I think it's still a great way to sample like 20 different cars if you're in the market. It's just that they're going to be regional dealer things and they're not going to be tied to automotive debuts.

• 17:22Speaker 02

  I know.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Honestly, it's how I experienced the Cleveland Auto Show. That's how all of them.

• 17:25Doug DeMuro?

  When I was a kid, that's how the Denver Auto Show was. That was just what it was.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  And that's fun.

• 17:30Speaker 02

  They're still cool. I love them, but.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  I like that. I do like that really cool stuff, like still debuts at like the Quail or Pebble Beach, like that for the performance stuff that I like. Like that's really cool, but.

• 17:40Doug DeMuro?

  There are still some major events where they hold debuts for.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  But that's just because people happen to already be there.

• 17:45Doug DeMuro?

  Well, but I think the targeted debuts like that will probably become more common, like at events such as the Quail.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:51Doug DeMuro?

  But the big auto show debuts are over and the fact that Detroit's happening right now is totally wild to me.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  I also think the manufacturers have figured out they can, if they do at an event like that or Villa d'Ette or on their own event, they can control the entire narrative and they can control what else is getting released then.

• 18:06Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  If you released in O2, the new Grand Vitara and then the Trailblazer comes out.

• 18:10Doug DeMuro?

  Yep. No one's talking about the Vitara. That's right.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  It's much smarter. Also, there wasn't a Grand Vitara that came out that year.

• 18:15Doug DeMuro?

  It's much smarter to do it. 99 was the Grand Vitara. It's 98, 99. It's much smarter.

• 18:20Speaker 02

  XL7, did you prefer that?

• 18:21Doug DeMuro?

  XL7? Yeah, oh, 3, I think. But, but yeah. Great car.

• 18:24Speaker 02

  Came out.

• 18:25Doug DeMuro?

  Great car. Actually, one of the worst cars on sale at the time. Okay, give us our next news story. Oh, Lexus RC. Gone. Okay, next news story. No, this is kind of sad.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  Is it?

• 18:37Doug DeMuro?

  Are coupes just done?

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:39Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, alright, move on.

• 18:43Speaker 02

  Unless they have four doors in our SUVs, they are.

• 18:45Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, that's true. Speaking of coupes, here is a BMW manufactured in Germany, which has nothing to do, you think the four series they built in South Carolina?

• 18:53Speaker 02

  I actually have no clue with her.

• 18:55Doug DeMuro?

  Which has nothing to do with our news story, but our news story is about the president. The president, we have a new president here in the United States of America. Same as a previous president. You brought him back. It's like when you get divorced and you remarry the person again. Larry King did that, I think. Alright, so.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  So believable. I don't know if that's true or not, but like, I do believe that.

• 19:17Doug DeMuro?

  Tell us about the president.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, so President Trump was inaugurated on Monday, the 20th.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Still some confusion about whether he is the 45th or 47th president.

• 19:26Doug DeMuro?

  I don't understand that myself. He keeps saying he's 47th, but isn't he the 45th again? Isn't it 45B?

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Didn't it happen with Cleveland?

• 19:32Doug DeMuro?

  There was another president for whom this occurred.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  The precedent has already been set for the president.

• 19:36Doug DeMuro?

  So what was he? What was he?

• 19:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, what was he, Kenan?

• 19:39Speaker 01

  I don't remember.

• 19:39Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know. It's tough to figure out because Obama was there for two terms and he was just one president.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  Yes, this is, it's only the second time that.

• 19:47Doug DeMuro?

  You get my point, though. So Obama was only one president, but Trump is two presidents? I don't get that. I don't get that.

• 19:53Speaker 02

  And then like the Bushes were two separate.

• 19:55Doug DeMuro?

  They were different people.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  Those are separate people.

• 19:58Doug DeMuro?

  It's like the Q5 and the Q7. They're different. George W. is the Q5 in this analogy.

• 20:05Doug DeMuro?

  Please, please, take this back on Trump.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  Alright, he signed a bunch of executive orders on his first day in office. One of the things that we expected him to sign an executive order around that he hasn't yet is around tariffs. But on his first day, he did say that he was planning on doing pretty substantial tariffs on a bunch of countries, including Canada and Mexico. The reason it becomes interesting for us is, there's a lot of vehicles manufactured in Canada and Mexico. Historically, that there have been great trade relations, there's the North Atlantic Free Trade Agreement.

• 20:39Doug DeMuro?

  Well, there's a new.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 20:40Doug DeMuro?

  It's been supplanted by something that's basically the same now.

• 20:44Speaker 02

  The result is that a lot of manufacturers have started building cars for the US market in Canada and in Mexico. In Mexico for lower building costs, in Canada.

• 20:52Doug DeMuro?

  Because they can.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  For some reason. Well, a lot, there's a lot of union, there's a lot of union requirements about Canada. Yeah, so this could be very interesting. If there are 25% tariffs on those countries and they are broadly applied, which I, seems unlikely, but let's say that they are broadly applied, that impacts vehicles, including the Dodge Charger, uh, the Silverado and Sierra.

• 21:13Doug DeMuro?

  God, can you imagine if Charger then gets hit with a, after all the crap that has already gone through? If then it gets hit with a.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  Tough soap gets. The Silverado and GNC Sierra.

• 21:22Doug DeMuro?

  Those are built in Canada?

• 21:22Speaker 02

  Those are both in Canada. The Civic, built in Canada. The CRV, built in Canada, in Indiana. Um, the RAV4, built in Canada.

• 21:29Doug DeMuro?

  I'm gonna make you, I'm gonna make you a little, I'm gonna make you a little, a little, uh, theory here. If Trump had wanted to tariff those countries, he would have executive ordered it yesterday. And I have a suspicion that he's gonna, he could maybe still, if they don't do certain things, but I have a suspicion that there would just be such huge blowback. Do you know how much stuff is made in Mexico and Canada?

• 21:49Speaker 02

  Right.

• 21:50Doug DeMuro?

  I can't pay more for my Dodge Charger.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  What about for your, what about for your Chevy Equinox and Equinox EV, both of which are built in Mexico?

• 21:58Doug DeMuro?

  The problem with the Equinox EV is it's already 25% too expensive. So if you put a 25% tariff on it, it would be 50% more expensive.

• 22:03Speaker 02

  I have really bad news. The QX55, the Infiniti QX55.

• 22:07Doug DeMuro?

  Where was that built?

• 22:08Speaker 02

  Built in Mexico.

• 22:09Doug DeMuro?

  Really?

• 22:09Speaker 02

  Yep. Agua Calientes.

• 22:11Doug DeMuro?

  Listen, I'm gonna tell you this. Kenan and I buy cars.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  Tacoma, Mexico.

• 22:14Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan and I, that's true. Kenan and I buy cars.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  Think I'm just joking.

• 22:17Doug DeMuro?

  That are from the country and built in the country. Okay?

• 22:20Speaker 02

  My Ford GT. That's true.

• 22:21Doug DeMuro?

  My Ford GT, Ford is American, built in America.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  GTI, built in Germany.

• 22:25Doug DeMuro?

  We'll cover the GTI momentarily. Uh, my Toyota Sequoia from Toyota, which is, my opinion is kind of become an American automaker. And it's built in Texas. You know what I'm saying?

• 22:36Speaker 02

  Except, of course, for the many Toyota vehicles, like the RAV4.

• 22:40Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but, but I'm saying, the ones we buy are assigned correctly to their country.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  Where do you think the US sold BMW 3 Series and 2 Series models are built?

• 22:49Doug DeMuro?

  The, uh, Mexico.

• 22:50Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 22:51Doug DeMuro?

  Is that true?

• 22:51Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 22:52Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. Oh yeah, that's right. 3MW.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  The M, well, and the M2, the M2 is the only MBW not to have an MVAN, because it's built in Mexico.

• 22:59Doug DeMuro?

  Wow.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  I don't believe in this.

• 23:01Doug DeMuro?

  This is it.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  Fascinating.

• 23:02Doug DeMuro?

  So anyway, so if.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  I got a lot of tariffs, a lot more.

• 23:05Doug DeMuro?

  He's gonna tariff the M2?

• 23:06Speaker 02

  I just cause of the my. Yeah.

• 23:11Speaker 02

  My guess is that they will not be applied as as you're hinting at probably unlikely to actually happen. Uh, also, if they do happen, I would not be shocked if they're limited in scope and don't apply to every vehicle.

• 23:20Doug DeMuro?

  It's like a strike.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  The fact that you don't know is a little concerning, I bet, for the manufacturers. They're worried.

• 23:26Doug DeMuro?

  It's like a strike. If if you do it, you do it temporarily to try to drive a behavior. I don't think he's gonna just like sign a 25% tariff and then suddenly the Tacoma is on.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  Well, for for for a month here Tacoma will go from being unaffordable and ungettable to extra.

• 23:38Doug DeMuro?

  Where is the forerunner built? I just drove a forerunner the other day and you know what? I'm under embargo, but.

• 23:46Speaker 02

  Looks good.

• 23:48Speaker 02

  The forerunner is built in Japan at the.

• 23:50Doug DeMuro?

  Looked good. Uh, anyway, okay, so that's the Trump situation. Yes. I want to be clear that there are potential impacts. We're not, we don't get political here, except for the 45, 47 thing. Is that political? I don't know. What do the Republicans say? What do the Democrats say?

• 24:03Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 24:03Doug DeMuro?

  What does Mitch McConnell say? I need to know.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  He goes.

• 24:12Doug DeMuro?

  Wow.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 24:13Doug DeMuro?

  That's exactly what he sounds like.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  That was questionable.

• 24:15Doug DeMuro?

  All right. Uh, so anyway, it's it is a potential interesting thing and we will, uh, keep our eyes peeled.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  We will.

• 24:22Doug DeMuro?

  Is there any other news stories? No, we're not talking about this. How did you sneak this back in? No, we're not discussing. Volvo's changing their naming and it's all very boring and nobody cares. Okay, on to our next segment, which is we talk about cars. There is a lot of cars, non-news related car things to talk about today. The biggest of which is Filippo.

• 24:40Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Pass. We bow down to you, Filippo.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thank you. I bought a car that's built in Germany.

• 24:45Doug DeMuro?

  You bought a Volkswagen GTI?

• 24:48Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 24:48Doug DeMuro?

  2023. You bought it on carsandbids.com, the greatest car auction platform on the world. Wide web, internet. Did you buy it on the app?

• 24:58Speaker 02

  Just wait a second.

• 24:59Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, go ahead. Did you buy it on the app?

• 25:01Speaker 02

  I did. I was, I was sitting in a car, actually in the Mercedes 500 SCC.

• 25:06Doug DeMuro?

  Did you hear this? After all the talking up the app he's done, he actually bought a car on the app?

• 25:10Speaker 02

  I bid and my, I bid from my computer and from the app.

• 25:12Doug DeMuro?

  He bought it on the app?

• 25:13Speaker 02

  And I bid it on that.

• 25:14Doug DeMuro?

  He only did it so that he could say it?

• 25:16Speaker 02

  No, no. It was, I was at a meeting on my computer. It was very convenient to have the app out and bidding.

• 25:22Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, how convenient is it to just be able to bid from home, right on the Cars and Bids app?

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Flip, I'm gonna ask you a question. You bid on this car. It would have wet pictures. Does that influence your decision at all?

• 25:33Speaker 02

  No, not at all.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Well, it should have.

• 25:35Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, so.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  Okay, the car is in Seattle. Of course it has wet stuff on it.

• 25:39Doug DeMuro?

  No, nothing's been dry in Seattle since, since October 4.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  But.

• 25:43Doug DeMuro?

  Columbus Day was the last time it was dry in Seattle.

• 25:46Speaker 02

  Why would that bother me, Kenan?

• 25:48Speaker 01

  We don't like to have wet pictures.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  No, I know. Well, why would that bother me as a human?

• 25:51Speaker 01

  Oh, you probably not. Me, it might be hard.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  I bought that car on CarzBis.

• 25:55Doug DeMuro?

  Bought the car.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  On a, I bid and won on a Tuesday.

• 25:57Doug DeMuro?

  On a Tuesday?

• 25:58Speaker 02

  I use Cars and Bids Safeway to, to handle the actual payment and transaction. Which made it really easy. And then on, on Friday morning of that week, my wife and I flew up to Seattle. The seller of this car, who's, who's a very kind, pleasant person, picked us up at the airport. We dropped her off at, at her house and went on our merry way. So we then did.

• 26:20Doug DeMuro?

  Was the car as described?

• 26:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:21Doug DeMuro?

  Was the car, does the car drive as you hoped?

• 26:24Speaker 02

  It drives actually better than I thought it would.

• 26:26Doug DeMuro?

  Really? Cause you've never driven one of these before?

• 26:27Speaker 02

  I've never driven a Mercedes GTI. I did, I did watch every video, yours included.

• 26:30Doug DeMuro?

  Ooh.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  Uh, and read all the reviews, both before and after bidding.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  He says it was surprise. This was premeditated.

• 26:38Doug DeMuro?

  No.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  He knew what he, this is what he really wanted.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  I watched all the reviews well after. I'd already committed to buying this car.

• 26:44Doug DeMuro?

  So you, so you drove it 2,000 kilometers home. What was it, what was it like? You like that? Cause he's European. I wanna, I wanna speak his language. Kilometri. Yeah, yeah. What was it like?

• 26:56Speaker 02

  It was legitimately excellent. Very comfortable, uh, very quiet and composed on the highway. Easy to, to drive long distances. It was legitimately.

• 27:04Doug DeMuro?

  Okay.

• 27:05Speaker 02

  Not any, maybe it's a little bit less comfortable than my Mercedes T-Class wagon.

• 27:09Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  But not by much.

• 27:11Doug DeMuro?

  Well, it's a much newer car. I mean, I never thought, to be honest with you, and I love your E-Wagon and I'm thrilled you have it.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  You hate the W212.

• 27:17Doug DeMuro?

  I, I never felt the 212 was as.

• 27:22Doug DeMuro?

  Comfortable as it should have been. The 213 was like the difference between the Stone Age and like when Bill Gates and Al Gore conspired to invent the calculator. Do you know what I'm saying? Like it was that level of.

• 27:34Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:35Doug DeMuro?

  You're trying to, you're thinking, did that happen? I don't know.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  No.

• 27:38Doug DeMuro?

  Look it up.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  Um.

• 27:39Doug DeMuro?

  Look it up.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  Uh, no, but it was.

• 27:42Doug DeMuro?

  Did the Stone Age happen?

• 27:43Speaker 02

  Really? I did a little vlog while driving home.

• 27:46Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, really?

• 27:46Speaker 02

  Film turned around in the passenger seat.

• 27:48Doug DeMuro?

  Did you?

• 27:48Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, so you'll see that on the channel soon, maybe. Uh, and then I'll do a full review after we've driven longer.

• 27:53Doug DeMuro?

  Regardless of all this, I'm glad you have the car. I appreciate it. I'm glad you use Cars and Bids in the Cars and Bids app and Cars and Bids Safe Pay.

• 27:59Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 28:00Doug DeMuro?

  I want to talk more importantly, though, about the, what this means for the community.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:05Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan and I have been not, I wouldn't say harsh. I would say.

• 28:11Speaker 02

  I'd say harsh.

• 28:12Doug DeMuro?

  I would say incredibly, incredibly stern and mean, I would, I would even say about the fact.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  Insistent.

• 28:20Doug DeMuro?

  But now you have a car.

• 28:21Speaker 02

  Now I have a car.

• 28:22Doug DeMuro?

  What do you, do you have, like, are you gonna throw this back in our faces?

• 28:25Speaker 02

  Right, I mean, I have a car that has the same amount of torque as a 997. 911.

• 28:29Doug DeMuro?

  So. He's been saying since he bought this car, he keeps talking about how it has the same. Cause he, here's the thing, Filippo wanted a sports car so bad. He's been talking sports car Corvette, 911, Boxer, Cayman, I, this, that. And he ends up with a, a four door hatchback, cause it's Filippo and he's a practical person.

• 28:44Speaker 02

  As long as.

• 28:44Doug DeMuro?

  And so all he's been talking about is how it has the same torque as a 997 dot one. A 20 year old car. I bet it's got more torque than a 250 GTO too, if you're really looking at it.

• 28:55Speaker 02

  I should start saying that.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Actually, but, but yeah. I love also that you, it's, you just insisted this is a, is a sports car.

• 29:03Doug DeMuro?

  What is the torque figure?

• 29:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, the 250 GTO, here it says it's only 217 pound feet.

• 29:08Doug DeMuro?

  Wow.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 29:10Doug DeMuro?

  Wow.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  That's 380 ish horsepower or?

• 29:12Speaker 02

  Uh, 300.

• 29:15Doug DeMuro?

  300 horsepower.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  More than mine.

• 29:17Doug DeMuro?

  300 horse, 217 pound feet. If you told me that, I'd be like, is that a base payment you're talking about? No, no, no, it's the greatest car of all time.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  It weighs as much as a potato chip, though, so in fairness, it's pretty quick.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  I don't expect that you all will stop giving me crap for my car brand purchases.

• 29:31Doug DeMuro?

  We will.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  I don't expect that, but I'm very excited about this car. I also am very excited about my... I have a goal of any sports car that I buy, or any car that I buy, period, to be a car that my wife also enjoys driving. And she was not, she was okay with this, but not that excited about it. But she actually really likes the car. This morning, she was going to go row on some water 20 minutes away, and she took that car. And she's never taken the Fiat to do so.

• 29:55Doug DeMuro?

  Oh.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  So I'm legitimately very happy that she has, that she has liked this car enough.

• 29:59Doug DeMuro?

  Wow.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  That it becomes her default choice.

• 30:01Doug DeMuro?

  But she likes the Fiat.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  So she says. Okay.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  I've seen her drive around. She doesn't see me.

• 30:05Doug DeMuro?

  The point is...

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Leepo's wife does not recognize when, like, others...

• 30:08Doug DeMuro?

  The point is, the point is...

• 30:09Speaker 02

  ...buys this.

• 30:09Doug DeMuro?

  Leepo's got a car. He did it.

• 30:11Speaker 02

  I did it.

• 30:11Doug DeMuro?

  Not only did he do it, he did it on the app.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  Have you bought a car?

• 30:14Doug DeMuro?

  Like, he did everything. He kind of...

• 30:15Speaker 02

  I bought the...

• 30:16Doug DeMuro?

  And so now the tables turn.

• 30:19Speaker 02

  I bought two cars.

• 30:20Doug DeMuro?

  To Kenan, who has been talking about buying a car as long as you have, but for some reason has avoided some of the vitriol, but now...

• 30:28Speaker 02

  I'm getting vitriolic.

• 30:30Doug DeMuro?

  He's even been less consistent.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  Well, because mine wasn't about exciting. Like, when I say I owned a sports car, I did. I had a Ferrari.

• 30:34Speaker 02

  You also want to buy a Vantage and then at some point a Viper?

• 30:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I accomplished a life...

• 30:38Doug DeMuro?

  You had an Italian Roadster with a manual transmission as well.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I accomplished a lifelong dream. He bought a car that happened to be down the street. I mean, like, that was the kind of difference.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  It was in Antonia's, that's 30 minutes away.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  Mine was in Texas.

• 30:48Doug DeMuro?

  He spent $8,600 on that car.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  I spent almost 10 times more.

• 30:53Doug DeMuro?

  He had to go to the ATM six times to get that Viper. You gotta, you gotta be nice.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  The beauty of cars with a safe pad has to be that.

• 30:59Doug DeMuro?

  Cars with a safe pad.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  God, you are a company man.

• 31:03Doug DeMuro?

  Okay.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:04Doug DeMuro?

  Tell us your situation. Kenan is thinking about a car.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  So I, yes, the hunt for the Cayenne has begun.

• 31:08Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan wants a Cayenne.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  You want a Fiat 500 or a Chevrolet?

• 31:11Speaker 01

  I do not. Not one that's up and on by you, anyway. Leepo's not nice to his cars.

• 31:16Doug DeMuro?

  Thank you. Appreciate that.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  They'll be fine when it goes live on this site. We'll clean it up. I'll make sure it looks nice, but... Yes, I very much want a Cayenne. I drove around the Cayenne Turbo and I started, I was like, you have a point, Doug was right. I need a Cayenne Turbo. So I started looking. However, I did not realize that, I don't know if it's they've swum, they've left this country and gone to others or what. There are not many around in anything that resembles an appealing spec. If you want a black one with a black interior, they're fine.

• 31:43Doug DeMuro?

  Part of the problem was they were all black. I was, so I was at Porsche when the car came out and I remember the whole thing vividly, the 92A.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  92A.

• 31:49Doug DeMuro?

  Um, the 958, yeah. No, the 92A.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  The 958, yeah.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  It's the 92A.

• 31:54Doug DeMuro?

  So enthusiasts on Renless, the worst kind of enthusiasts, have named the car the 958, but it's the 92A. Anyway, so you're looking for one. Now, we talked yesterday about potentially getting off the Turbo and going on to a lesser but still excellent. I'm a big fan of the V6. I'm dead serious. I'm a big fan of the V6.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  So yeah, so my use case really is to drive this car in rare inclement weather in San Diego, to drive it through ruts, to drive it to places I don't want to park the M5 and drive it to work. Do I really need the 500 horsepower Turbo to do? It's like, I would like the 500 horsepower Turbo to do that, but I don't need it necessarily.

• 32:31Doug DeMuro?

  If you don't have it though, that opens you up to some issues.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  What, from you? Making fun of me?

• 32:36Doug DeMuro?

  Not me at all. Not me in some, but like others. Him, the commenters.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  It's a Porsche. I want him to have less power than I do, that'd be great.

• 32:45Doug DeMuro?

  How much power do you have?

• 32:46Speaker 02

  No, the V6 Cayenne is legit.

• 32:48Doug DeMuro?

  What did you say, 270 something?

• 32:49Speaker 02

  I have 240, uh, 244 horsepower.

• 32:52Doug DeMuro?

  The, the original V6 Cayenne had less than that.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yes, I don't want that.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  No, but the second, the 958 has, um, 300 horsepower.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  So, so I started looking at GTSs and started looking and it's like, there are more around, but like, it's just finding the right. I think this, I care more, you also leveled me that I should be looking for condition as opposed to mileage and these sorts of things. So, I don't know, I started to explore maybe not getting a Turbo, but just getting a nice Cayenne.

• 33:18Doug DeMuro?

  A 9, a 92AS early. I mean, I, I, the, the, the pre and post phase of cars both, I think, looked okay. The, I prefer the pre, uh, but most people prefer the post. But the S was a good, it was a V8. It was 400 horsepower. I don't know after the facelift how much power it had, maybe a little bit more.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  More, I think 420 is what it went up to.

• 33:36Doug DeMuro?

  So that's, that's, I mean, that's a pretty healthy figure.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I actually, if you have 420 horsepower, I think 400 foot, 407 foot pounds of torque or something like that.

• 33:44Doug DeMuro?

  You know what you do? You get an S because then you'd have two cars with a 4.9 liter V8 with 400 horsepower.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  Well, I think the facelift S went to a V6. It is not a V8.

• 33:55Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, so you gotta get a first gen. And it's a 4.8, but in your car, they call it a 5.0. In neither case, it is.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  4.94, yeah.

• 34:01Doug DeMuro?

  We're gonna, that's where we're gonna average it. An exactly 400 horse, German, they were made.

• 34:05Speaker 02

  394 for the BMW.

• 34:07Doug DeMuro?

  Oh yeah, that's right. You get the point.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  400 PS.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  But, yeah, so.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  What are you, Cadillac?

• 34:13Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't, I'm not opposed to getting the slightly lesser model.

• 34:18Doug DeMuro?

  Pull up some Cayenne S results here. What do we got? We selling these things?

• 34:22Speaker 02

  We sell a lot.

• 34:22Speaker 01

  I think we actually do call them all nine.

• 34:24Doug DeMuro?

  Just type in, just type in Cayenne S. I just wanna, most of them will be that model you're looking for.

• 34:29Speaker 02

  The one I'm right now that's the first gen.

• 34:30Doug DeMuro?

  What do we got? That's a first gen. That's a 24. Okay, I'm wrong.

• 34:32Speaker 02

  All right, 2017 for 18 grand.

• 34:34Doug DeMuro?

  18, yeah, so it's a V6, you're right, in that facelift. But here, 7100 bucks.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  7100 bucks, there you go.

• 34:40Doug DeMuro?

  There you go. He doesn't click on anything. It's not worth it.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, 170.

• 34:43Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but dude, for seven grand.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Right wheels, though. What interior?

• 34:47Doug DeMuro?

  How much rust did this thing have to sell for only seven grand? I want this car. Can I have this car?

• 34:52Speaker 02

  Called 958 internally.

• 34:53Doug DeMuro?

  Not true!

• 34:55Speaker 01

  I'm gonna update that.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  Go back, there's one other one right before that one. That's all for 13,190.

• 35:01Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, yeah, that one. That's the one to get.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, that one is pretty nice. I hate the base wheels.

• 35:06Doug DeMuro?

  Those are the S wheels, to be clear, but they're the base S wheels and nobody got it. Scroll down, how many miles? This was a car, it was in Reno. Dude, you could have done a Reno road trip. That's like one of the great bad road trips, from Reno to Southern California.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  That is a great bad.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  The part, like the last part is okay. No, you're in, the part where you're in traffic?

• 35:23Doug DeMuro?

  Yep. Kenny, this was you. Call the guy who bought this and tell him you'll give him a thousand over. It even has brown seatbelts for god knows what reason.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Does it?

• 35:31Doug DeMuro?

  It looked like it. Go back.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  I think it was the angle.

• 35:34Doug DeMuro?

  Go back more.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  That.

• 35:36Doug DeMuro?

  No, they're just.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  No, that's just.

• 35:37Doug DeMuro?

  You're right, you're right, you're right.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Lighting. But my, my point stands like I, I think I just have to find the right. Uh, the other thing you told me is like with the, the turbo, like you will spend as much as this car costs.

• 35:48Doug DeMuro?

  I made Kevin record a, a video yesterday saying he wouldn't spend a lot on it.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  Yes, that's correct.

• 35:54Doug DeMuro?

  Cause I just know Ken.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  The goal is not to. The goal is to not. The goal is to, I've done my thing with the M5 in terms of spending the money on it. I'm good. Um, I just wanna like not spend money on cars. I'm gonna spend my own watches instead, but I, I don't wanna spend money on cars.

• 36:04Doug DeMuro?

  That Cayenne we just saw was like the one.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  I agree. And to be honest, finding one in silver, very difficult.

• 36:10Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  Finding one with good wheels, which in my opinion, this one does not have, very difficult. Finding one that has.

• 36:16Doug DeMuro?

  I like the wheels are subtle.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  I found, I did find a facelift car that has a full leather interior.

• 36:20Doug DeMuro?

  Very difficult on the non. Full leather is, is, is easier on the turbos.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  Well, I think it was standard on the turbo.

• 36:25Doug DeMuro?

  I think it was standard on the turbo.

• 36:26Speaker 01

  The GTS, it wasn't.

• 36:28Doug DeMuro?

  Go, go back.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  Have it.

• 36:29Speaker 02

  Why does it matter for this purpose?

• 36:30Speaker 01

  Because I still, Filippo, I, I like driving a nice car, even if it's just like a commuter.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  It's still a nice car.

• 36:36Doug DeMuro?

  Would you consider a nine PA?

• 36:38Speaker 02

  Kia Rio.

• 36:38Doug DeMuro?

  A nice nine PA?

• 36:39Speaker 01

  No, I don't think so.

• 36:40Doug DeMuro?

  I love a nine PA interior. These had. I love a nine PA interior. Plus heavy steering. Felt good. I appreciate how hard you're trying to get.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  It's just too old.

• 36:47Speaker 02

  You're right.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  It's just too old. Like the, the M5, I've, they loaded an old car for a long time now and.

• 36:53Doug DeMuro?

  Look at that. No, that was, that had some sort of.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  I did consider the, the E hybrid, but the issue is I don't have somewhere to charge my car. And also the battery does add complication and it does have failure point.

• 37:02Doug DeMuro?

  The original E, the original hybrid was not a plug-in. So you could get that. Then that was the super V6 from the I D S4.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  But still had the issues with the, the battery and.

• 37:12Doug DeMuro?

  The, the facelift one was a plug-in, but it is 420 horsepower. The first one only had what? Three, maybe 400? It was a Cayenne S.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  It was 400.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  I love the Cayenne S plug-in hybrid. And I know that Ken says that some, there's some battery issues. Yeah, but like, fine.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, but the battery's five grand to replace. There's no five grand to put in.

• 37:28Doug DeMuro?

  That one too.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Ten thousand dollars in problems.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  That one too. They're in the corner. Look at that.

• 37:31Doug DeMuro?

  You don't want black. That's, that's one of your problems.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Thing I, I do not want.

• 37:34Doug DeMuro?

  How many miles?

• 37:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, this one has 117.

• 37:37Doug DeMuro?

  Dude, the, the one in Nevada was the one.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:39Doug DeMuro?

  You gotta buy that car. You gotta, we gotta invalidate that dude's transaction and you come in there and buy it.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  Swoop in.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  None of that will happen.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  I'll find one eventually, but I am looking like I had my friend Sam, Sam sent me this amazing red one today, red GTS. Our friend Sam, uh, listening disappeared, guys must have sold it.

• 37:57Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, really?

• 37:58Speaker 01

  Strong number he wanted, like I wanted for that.

• 38:00Doug DeMuro?

  He wanted all the money for the miles, I saw that.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  But it had a lot of service documentation and like just had the transfer case replaced and all that stuff.

• 38:05Doug DeMuro?

  I think there's a reality that you will find across, you'll come across the right one and frankly soon. When we were looking for the, the kind turbo that Doug would drive in the desert series. We bought that car in a week.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  That spec is unusual.

• 38:17Doug DeMuro?

  But the thing is that unusual cars come up, just if you wait a couple of weeks, the likelihood that one does.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I've been looking, I mean, they did, but I've been looking and like, they're not as around as I would have thought.

• 38:26Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but if we're expanding to S and GTS and even six cylinder.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  You'll find one you like.

• 38:30Doug DeMuro?

  I'm telling you, six cylinder is better than you think.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  I know, I'd love to drive one.

• 38:33Doug DeMuro?

  It's slow, but it's better than you think. And it's just like competent. The thing I love, I used to Turo six cylinder Cayenne's. Basically everywhere I would go, I'd Turo six cylinder. Didn't matter if G wagons were available, didn't matter if what, I would get a six cylinder Cayenne. Cause the thing I loved about it was it was super under the radar. It was more comfortable than the, than the big wheel turbos. And it was just like enough. And I like to just like cruise around on the New Jersey Turnpike in my six cylinder Cayenne. No one knew it was me and I drive my cars, everybody's like, oh, it's Doug, it's Doug. But the Cayenne, you could just sit there in your six cylinder Cayenne being like, this could be my life. Like I could have been just a suburban dad, like with a desk job. You know what? Pretty appealing, actually.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  Like most of the time, not that we're not on the same level at all, but like when I drive around the M5, I get recognized in it way more than I do when I'm just walking.

• 39:17Doug DeMuro?

  I bet you if you had a nice six cylinder Cayenne, nobody would say anything.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Be kinda nice. But nonetheless, it's like, I think that, I don't know, I have to feel it out with my soul. I'll know the right one when I see it, but.

• 39:26Doug DeMuro?

  Okay. That is, that is happening. If you have a Cayenne S, 2012 silver with 79,000 miles that you bought from Arcelor Navara, you still want to.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  A nine two A, a nine two A specifically.

• 39:37Doug DeMuro?

  Okay. Uh, another hot cars thing, the Ferrari 12-cylinder has been revealed. It's out. People are getting them.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  They're like out, out, right? Like they're.

• 39:44Doug DeMuro?

  I don't think they're in the States yet.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  No, I don't think so.

• 39:46Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, but they're in Europe, they're on sale. And I have some interesting thoughts about modern day Ferrari.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  Oh, let's hear them.

• 39:54Doug DeMuro?

  The 12-cylinder is not selling well.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  Really?

• 39:56Doug DeMuro?

  Already. There are threads all over Ferrari chat about guys being like, I bought one Ferrari and they offered me a 12-cylinder.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  Oof.

• 40:04Doug DeMuro?

  That's thing one.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  Well, thing two. Was the one that Ferrari, they bought in SP1.

• 40:09Doug DeMuro?

  By the way, the Ferrari was an end zone.

• 40:13Doug DeMuro?

  The Ferrari was a short wheelbase.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  I don't think someone legitimately, I don't think someone bought a Roma Spider.

• 40:19Doug DeMuro?

  There's a guy posting on Ferrari chat who's like, I bought an F12 and an 812. And that was it. And I got off.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, that's V12, V12, V12, the most expensive car they make, like from the normal production range.

• 40:28Doug DeMuro?

  It's two cars. It used to be a little different.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, one, one was.

• 40:32Doug DeMuro?

  When I was working at the Ferrari dealer, you wanted a 599, first off, you weren't getting one. But there were people who were getting them and they, no, I mean, that's a general statement. Like if you were inquiring about it, you were not going to be getting one.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Like, I don't know.

• 40:47Doug DeMuro?

  Things are different. That's 12 cylinder. That's 12 cylinder problem number one. 12 cylinder problem number two, there was like a 10 page thread on Ferrari chat right now about people turning down their 12 cylinder allocations because prices are so high. And options are so high and because they keep getting destroyed on depreciation. One guy calculated how much money he's had to lose on BS cars in order to get the good cars. And he's like, barely breaking even. And even then, the dealer's not offering him the really good stuff.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Well, yeah. So here's the thing, actually, Billy did a video talking about this recently, how there are so many qualified people who can afford to buy the big stuff now. It's like, if you as a newer person want to jump in front of them, like.

• 41:27Doug DeMuro?

  Well, but, but, but do you understand the problem? Okay. So the last thing I want to say is there's a 22 page thread on Ferrari chat about SF90 depreciation. Well, yeah. It's, there are the most recent page people like these are about to caution to the threes. And then guys are applying wholesale, they already are. And guys are applying in Europe, they already are. Threes. Yeah. What's his name? David Lee, who I went up, his car, an 850 sticker. Threes. That was two years ago. Dude, what I'm saying is, and so you're right, there's a ton of qualified people who can do it. And so Ferrari has to figure out another way to qualify people to get them into the high value stuff. So they don't feel so bad about losing money. But the problem is they can't get, if they're trying to shove all these FF90s down people's throats. And then they all lose 300 grand. It used to be, oh, I don't care if I lose 300 grand on SF90 because they'll give me an SP3. They don't have enough.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Here it comes.

• 42:12Doug DeMuro?

  They don't have enough SP3s. And so my question is, has Ferrari lost its luster? By the way, 296 is a red sticker or below used.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:20Doug DeMuro?

  Of course, it's two years old.

• 42:23Doug DeMuro?

  That was not the case. The last time used mid-engine Ferraris were below sticker was probably 355. 360 is where that whole waiting list BS game stuff started.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  355, well, don't forget 355 with the F1, it was like, it was one of the hottest cars.

• 42:36Doug DeMuro?

  You get my point, though. We're talking about decades. This is a new world for Ferrari.

• 42:41Speaker 02

  How many more, how many cars did Ferrari sell last year?

• 42:44Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know. They're selling a ton more cars. People are flipping back their SUVs because those are making money. But like, this is, this is a dangerous game for Ferrari to play.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  I know. I've been worried about this day for a long time.

• 42:54Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, if you force down SF90s down people's throats, and you force Romas down people's throats, you have to give them the supercars. But the problem is, the volume they want to do in SF90s and Romas and 12-cylindries in Purosong's is not going to be enough to be counteracted by the SP3. So then, the rich people are going to start bailing on the SF90s. They're going to sit there and they're going to say, "I don't want to be part of this SF90 stuff if I'm not going to get an SP3." And Ferrari then has to actually try to sell these cars. And that's a tough ballgame. And I bet you that you could buy an SF90 below sticker, new, at dealerships right now.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 43:28Doug DeMuro?

  Meanwhile, meanwhile...

• 43:30Speaker 01

  Wait, doesn't it been out of production?

• 43:32Doug DeMuro?

  No. SF90, they're still desperately trying to shove them down people's throats. Meanwhile, this is the last point I'm going to make. Revuelto, sold out for years. Porsche, high-end Porsche products, sold out for years. I never thought I would see the day when Ferrari would lose what it has had for 30 years. But it's interesting.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  It's a, yeah, it is interesting. I'd like to monitor it and see what happens.

• 43:59Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, I don't think they're there yet. I still think it's the stronger brand compared to Lamborghini and Porsche. But you see what's happening. You see what's happening. As lovely as this car is, and my god, is it lovely.

• 44:09Speaker 02

  Here's the thing. The, I think that we are in much more of a global market than we once were. And that's notable for two reasons. One is, first, let's talk about Ferrari sales. In 2004, per goodcarbadcar.net, which is one of my favorite sites.

• 44:22Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, how many did they sell?

• 44:23Speaker 02

  In 2004, they sold 1,100 cars in the US, 1,200 cars in the US. In 2022, they sold 5,000 cars in the US.

• 44:29Doug DeMuro?

  I mean, yikes.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  That's a major, but that means that they, as a company, are making money they weren't making before, which is important. The second element is... Somebody like Porsche, doing really, really well in the US market. They, their sales were down something like 28% in China last year, year over year.

• 44:45Doug DeMuro?

  He slipped in the China thing, I told him not to.

• 44:47Speaker 02

  Because it's an important note, right? Like, just because in the US, they're really hot, doesn't mean they are international, in all markets. While Ferrari still has some brand cash.

• 44:54Doug DeMuro?

  This Ferrari situation is going on everywhere. And you know what, you know what part?

• 44:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. Are their sales, are they struggling to sell cars?

• 45:00Doug DeMuro?

  I wouldn't say anybody's struggling. Like, they're gonna sell these cars. However, part of the reason that Ferrari has been so successful over the last decades is because people knew that they could keep, retain value in these cars. And what Ferrari has started to do is jack up the prices like crazy. Do you know what 12 cylinders is $100,000 more than an 812? $100,000 more. Think about that. So Ferrari's stealing more and more of the money for themselves, and that money is on the used market depreciating. Suddenly, people don't want to go down that road. And they look at Revolto, and they say, why is this BS car from Lamborghini, tractor manufacturer, keeping its value? Revolto's are selling over.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Interesting point.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  I think that you have two options if you're coming back Ferrari.

• 45:41Doug DeMuro?

  This is it.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  One is to continue to go after that same market that you're describing, where you are making it incredibly hard to buy a car, but then your value as a brand remains, in the secondary market, remains really high. And the second is to do what they're doing now, which is, kind of give some of that up, but make money now.

• 45:57Doug DeMuro?

  Maybe. And there are downsides to both. If there comes a day where there are Ferraris sitting on dealer lots, unsold, the brand changes. The brand changes. If I could go to a Ferrari dealer, and they got two 12 cylinders not spoken for, sitting there, and five Purosangue's not spoken for, and two Romas, and a Roma Spider, and you're like, you know, this is Maserati.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  It's a smell a little like Maserati.

• 46:21Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. They gotta be more careful than I can even begin to describe. They became a public company. I don't want to say they're greedy, I would have done the same thing, but they have to start being careful.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  They have to start being careful.

• 46:32Doug DeMuro?

  Because you're in a situation here where your flagship cars are not selling, where you don't have enough of the true crazy flagship cars to keep people quiet. It's a tou- it's gonna be a tough situation for the brand.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  Bring back Luca De Maas as well. Some of us feel.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  What's their new hypercar called?

• 46:48Doug DeMuro?

  The F80. And it's gonna be cool.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Not to be confused with the BMW.

• 46:52Doug DeMuro?

  Right. How many units of F80 are they making? It's gotta be a thousand, that's the thing.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  They're making 799.

• 46:58Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, so they'll make a thousand. So they'll make a thousand.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, so they'll do a convertible too.

• 47:02Doug DeMuro?

  They'll, well, they'll do a convertible. They'll make, 799 is their number of F80s, that means they're gonna make a thousand, because they lie. And then they're gonna do a convertible and make another 500. They're gonna make 2,000 F80s. That's gonna be around. They have to, in order to solve the problem that they're, they've, themselves have developed. I just think the whole situation is getting a little bit scary. If I were Ferrari, I would start to get a little bit nervous. Because the cachet of this brand is the whole game. The fact that you can't get one. And you're, that's the whole game. And if you can get one, and you're gonna lose a ton of money, the game changes.

• 47:30Speaker 01

  Well, and they've lost the definition of their product lines, too. It's like, it, it starts to get cluttered, because there are so many different models now. It's like, where, it's like, so the, the six-cylinder...

• 47:39Doug DeMuro?

  Which is also an issue when you become a public company, and you wanna maximize your sales and your revenue. You gotta make more cars, but you're right.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  But it's like, the 296 is now what the V8 line was, but it's not a V8 anymore, so like...

• 47:49Doug DeMuro?

  And the 296 and the SF90, in my opinion, are for, by, for most people indistinguishable.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  Right, then there's the Roma, the Roma Spider, and it's, it's like, it's, they're just, it's very dangerous territory.

• 47:59Doug DeMuro?

  Meanwhile, Porsche is selling 911 STs to a small number of people at sticker. Meanwhile, Porsche makes all these Macans and Caymans. Porsche has made this unbelievable transformation, where they can sell boring BS cars at lease payment specials to randoms, to, to, to, to dentists and realtors, and it's fine, because they have this high end. Ferrari may have to do that. Ferrari may have to go down and dip into that market, so they, that's where they can get their revenue and their big sales numbers, etc., while keeping the sports car market small. It, it can be done. Porsche has proven it. Their brand is stronger than ever, while still selling more cars than ever. But Ferrari's in an interesting situation that is not, in my opinion, great.

• 48:37Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, the Lewis in the 40.

• 48:39Speaker 02

  Win on Sunday, sell on Monday?

• 48:40Doug DeMuro?

  Win on Sunday, sell on Monday. We'll see if that's true.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  We'll see. Man, what a car that was.

• 48:47Doug DeMuro?

  You get my point.

• 48:48Speaker 02

  I do.

• 48:48Doug DeMuro?

  It's an interesting situation.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  Luckily for me, the only Ferraris I really love are the old ones.

• 48:51Doug DeMuro?

  And I think that is also a problem. I think a lot of enthusiasts would actually prefer some of the stuff about the old cars. The new cars have become convoluted. They're tremendously expensive. And by the way, old cars, new cars. We're now talking about used cars are 812. So a lot of people in the 12-cylinder threads on Ferrari chat are like, I'm just keeping my 812. It's got the same engine, the same power, and it sounds better because it doesn't have to be exhaust restricted. And by the way, a new 12-cylinder is $150,000. If I trade it in, I gotta put another $150,000 for the same car, which isn't really that good looking.

• 49:23Speaker 02

  Doesn't look better. Right. That's the issue.

• 49:25Doug DeMuro?

  So even the old cars, now we're starting to talk about cars like the 458 and the F8 as old cars, which are under warranty, drive great, sound great.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  Any 458s under warranty?

• 49:36Doug DeMuro?

  You get my point.

• 49:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do get your point. Well, buy old Ferraris.

• 49:40Doug DeMuro?

  This is the, maybe. Or this may be the beginning. Anyway, I'm never getting a Ferrari press car again, but I only ever got two.

• 49:46Speaker 02

  What did you get?

• 49:47Doug DeMuro?

  I had a 296 and I had a GTC4 Luso years ago, and I curved the wheel. I've only curved like four press car wheels and that was one of those bad situations. Next up, time for the market report. Market report brought to you by the Cars and Bids app, where Filippo buys his car.

• 50:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 50:03Doug DeMuro?

  That's true. Let's talk 750S. It's our only market report topic for the day because we gotta get onto questions. 750S.

• 50:08Speaker 02

  We sold a 750S this week.

• 50:11Doug DeMuro?

  Sold 750S for $298. What was the sticker on this car?

• 50:14Speaker 02

  I believe it was 370.

• 50:16Doug DeMuro?

  370?

• 50:18Speaker 01

  Let's see.

• 50:18Doug DeMuro?

  374. Sold for $298. $75,000 depreciation. How many miles? 10,000 miles. So 10,000 miles. It costs 75 grand. That's actually not as bad as I would expect.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  Is that bad? Is that not bad? I mean, this is McLaren's newest.

• 50:31Doug DeMuro?

  Newest, yeah, brand new.

• 50:32Speaker 02

  The 750 replaces.

• 50:33Doug DeMuro?

  It is in Idaho. I think there's a component of, anybody buying this was shipping it.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  By the way, we, this was, we looked at a bunch of comps and comps are a little, this actually was a good result.

• 50:44Doug DeMuro?

  Look at that. What a license plate.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  That is lovely. There's absolutely

• 50:47Speaker 01

  There's a dog and a cat too.

• 50:48Speaker 02

  Oh my goodness.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  The plate says pet friendly.

• 50:51Speaker 02

  That's so cute. Um, this is a strong result in the 750 market. Really? Apparently. Uh, that feels like a lot of depreciation. At the same time, it doesn't feel like that much depreciation. I don't know. That like makes sense to me.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  It feels like a lot of depreciation generally, but not for a McLaren.

• 51:05Doug DeMuro?

  It's, it's an unusual situation also because he drove it 10,000 miles. These cars are not that, usually you see 720S is coming to the market with 4,000 miles. This is 750S, cars only a year olds already got 10,000 miles. So, um, frankly, I, I think he should be happy that he drove it and got, I mean, he's gonna lose value no matter what. You might as well drive it, uh, especially in the 750S world where they lose pretty quick.

• 51:25Speaker 02

  Right. Like it's, it's notable. It's, I, I legitimately don't know.

• 51:29Doug DeMuro?

  I don't either.

• 51:30Speaker 02

  Is that, this is the first 750S that I've seen.

• 51:32Doug DeMuro?

  Pull up 720S. How many 720Ss we sold?

• 51:34Speaker 01

  Not too many. I'll, I'll, I'll ferret type.

• 51:36Doug DeMuro?

  I, I, I don't know. I, oh, 720A, the 720S's brother.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  We found, uh,

• 51:42Doug DeMuro?

  So there you go. 260 for a 720S with 21 with 7,000 miles. So the 298, I mean, I don't think the market's gonna distinguish between the 750S and the 720S.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  They look visually, I certainly can't.

• 51:53Doug DeMuro?

  No, they look the same. And they drive the same, by the way.

• 51:55Speaker 02

  We, we found 750Ss asking, so like ad dealers that have been sitting for a couple of months, asking in the mid 300s.

• 52:02Doug DeMuro?

  Mid 3s.

• 52:03Speaker 02

  With no real miles.

• 52:05Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 52:05Speaker 02

  So like, it, it makes sense. Like for like a no mile card to be, to be the, asking them a 3s for two months. Yeah. But it's, it's, this has got to be one of the first public auction results.

• 52:15Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  That they just came out.

• 52:17Doug DeMuro?

  298 with some miles on it. I would be happy.

• 52:19Speaker 02

  I would too.

• 52:20Doug DeMuro?

  Given what I know these cars depreciate like, I would be pretty happy that I got 10,000 miles and still was able to get out of it. Uh, after a year, year and a half.

• 52:28Speaker 02

  Really shows how far are not, how much not in that world then.

• 52:31Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. 75 grand's a lot of money to lose for a normal person.

• 52:34Speaker 02

  I'm impressed this dude drove a 10,000 miles in a year. In a 750S in Idaho.

• 52:38Doug DeMuro?

  Well, he's in Idaho. He's, he's driving from Nampa to Boise.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  What a car to do it in.

• 52:43Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, it'd be cool with a, with a, with a golden retriever license plate.

• 52:47Speaker 02

  I know, that's so cute. Why, why can't California have a golden retriever?

• 52:49Doug DeMuro?

  We have the pet license plate. Pierce Brosnan, we have Pierce Brosnan.

• 52:52Speaker 02

  Pierce Brosnan designed a license plate to promote people spaying and neutering their pets.

• 52:56Doug DeMuro?

  Okay.

• 52:57Speaker 02

  That's all factually true.

• 52:58Doug DeMuro?

  We got, we'll do a longer market report next week because there's a lot more to say.

• 53:01Speaker 02

  There is.

• 53:01Doug DeMuro?

  But I want to move on to questions because we have great questions and I love when our audience asks us questions. Now, remember, you too can ask us questions. If you go to carsandbids.com, you click on the community tab and there'll be a giant post with Kennon's face on it, and by Kennon's, I mean mine. And you can ask your questions. Okay?

• 53:16Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 53:16Doug DeMuro?

  So, and we'll answer them. So, first question from Minnesota Joe. What's the story behind the VW, behind the Subaru Sambar VW Tribute van that you pulled from Cars and Bids? Did VW send a cease and desist? Were they gonna have that one destroyed? Okay, let me tell you the story. I'll tell you the story. It's not good. It's not interesting. Couple of weeks ago on the pod, we had some issue where there was a VW, there was a Subaru Sambar that somebody converted to look like a VW bus.

• 53:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:41Doug DeMuro?

  And I wanted to like tell the whole story. And Flippo's like, you can't tell the story. The story is not Sambar.

• 53:48Speaker 02

  Oh, what a Kennon.

• 53:49Doug DeMuro?

  With an M as in Michael.

• 53:50Speaker 02

  With an M, yeah.

• 53:51Doug DeMuro?

  Um, and Flippo said, you can't tell the story. Uh, whereas, maybe it wasn't a Sambar, it was an Acti or something. Anyway, the point is, it was, looked like a VW bus. And Flippo said, you can't tell the story. I don't remember what exactly the van.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Nobody else has it there?

• 54:05Doug DeMuro?

  Suzuki of some kind, maybe. I don't know.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  I'm gonna look for it. You keep, you keep talking. I'll find it.

• 54:10Doug DeMuro?

  Anyway, the point is, uh, we, we didn't sell the van. We had to pull the auction because VW did send a cease and desist. VW is very carefully going after the, the trademarks on these VW bus thing, van things because it was a Subaru. It was a Hudson. Uh, they're very carefully going after the trademarks on these VW bus things, and rightfully so because they're now coming out with a new one. And if they don't go after these trademarks, it opens up the ability for aftermarket companies to, to make these. And it would, given that they have a vehicle out that looks like this, they're very aggressively trying to stop that. Anyway, I thought there was gonna be more to the story, but all that happened is they sent a cease and desist, we took the auction out, and I was like, there was nothing more that happened. So, that's that. Uh, right? I mean, is there anything else to say?

• 54:51Speaker 02

  How I feel about answering that question that way? Sorry, one second.

• 54:54Doug DeMuro?

  Well, it wasn't, I mean, I don't think, I don't think it's that interesting. And to be honest, I don't want to say that I'm in Volkswagen's camp on this, but a lot of times it's annoying you and automakers send cease and desist for old products, for people who are doing stuff to old products. Some automakers are known for doing this. However, because Volkswagen has a brand new version of this, people don't, a lot of people who complain about this stuff don't understand how trademark law works. If you don't go after keeping your trademark, you will lose it. The trademark courts will basically say, look, you had all these opportunities to go after, to keep your trademark, you didn't, so it's, you're gone, it's gone now. And this is such a cultural icon that you could see Volkswagen losing this trademark if they didn't go after it. And so they're careful with that. So we're not going to run more Volkswagen bus look alike things.

• 55:35Doug DeMuro?

  And, and I think that if you try to sell them, you might see action from Volkswagen because they're desperately trying to market their own version of this car now. That costs, by the way, 70 some thousand dollars. This would have been six, that's potentially scary for them.

• 55:48Speaker 02

  Especially because there's a large culture in Japan of modifying vans to look exactly like this.

• 55:53Doug DeMuro?

  Yes.

• 55:54Speaker 02

  Which is fascinating.

• 55:55Doug DeMuro?

  Which has its own, Japan must not have a similar trademark law, because if they did Volkswagen would have gone after it there and put a stop to it.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  I will say, part of our decision to pull it was ultimately not necessarily on the merit of Volkswagen's cease and desist, I don't know, it hasn't been tested in the courts specifically, or just some very fair questions about whether or not that is actually an infringement, but also because we didn't want to put the buyer in that situation.

• 56:16Doug DeMuro?

  Our real fear was that the buyer, if they bought the car Volkswagen would come after the buyer.

• 56:20Speaker 02

  So generally when that happens, we just want to avoid any problems for our buyer or our sellers, and we decide, okay, well, not transacting at all is the better solution.

• 56:27Doug DeMuro?

  It honestly wasn't that interesting. I wish it was more interesting. All right, next question from Rip Stick. How do your spouses/ESO feel about your automotive passion? Have they ever vetoed a car that you wanted to buy or hated a car that you've owned? Kenan, how does Emily feel?

• 56:41Speaker 01

  I mean, she's got an M3CR, so.

• 56:44Doug DeMuro?

  CRT!

• 56:45Speaker 01

  She's got a much cooler car than I do.

• 56:48Speaker 02

  I like the sectional, Emily.

• 56:50Doug DeMuro?

  Filippo, how does your spouse feel about your honor?

• 56:53Speaker 02

  She does not share the passion, but she's very supportive of that. And I think in places where I'm excited about, I'm never that excited about a car. The GTI is probably the most excited I've been about a car, but she's very supportive of that. On the way home, she actually told me that I should still consider buying a Corvette or something similar if I felt compelled to.

• 57:10Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, how lovely.

• 57:11Speaker 02

  Uh, which is very kind of her.

• 57:12Doug DeMuro?

  So she got in the car and she was like, oh, Filippo, you know, just so you know.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  I could keep.

• 57:17Doug DeMuro?

  Now that we're in the car and I'm seeing how much of a compromise this was, you could still have fun.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, I, I think that part of this comes down to, I don't make irresponsible decisions around cars. Maybe I should be more irresponsible. But just as my, my wife is incredibly supportive of that and the hobby. I think it's partially because it's not, it's a passion, but it's not like my only passion.

• 57:42Doug DeMuro?

  Right, right, right.

• 57:44Speaker 02

  Uh, so it's not like I'm like saying, can I be out at car shows every day?

• 57:47Doug DeMuro?

  We can, we can trust, in fact, with Filippo, if anything, there's a little bit of fear that he may not have enough fun.

• 57:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 57:52Doug DeMuro?

  And I mean that sincerely.

• 57:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, 100%.

• 57:54Doug DeMuro?

  So there's, there's almost like a, you know, maybe like a push.

• 57:57Speaker 02

  I will say to answer the second part, she didn't, we had an NB Miata for a year and she did not enjoy the NB.

• 58:01Doug DeMuro?

  She didn't like the NB. Hey, you know what? She wanted an NA. She said, I want an NA. I want to package one car. And he was like, no.

• 58:07Speaker 02

  I, she, her, her complaint was that it felt like every time she went to a pothole, because we lived in Baltimore, there were many, that she would just disappear.

• 58:15Doug DeMuro?

  The answer for me, my spouse, uh, works now two days a week. We have two homes. She, needless to say, is pretty, pretty okay with my honor.

• 58:25Doug DeMuro?

  I, it's actually interesting. I get this question a lot. Like, how does you, how does your wife let you get a Carrera GT? Well, you know, cars have, cars have given us a great life. And so I, I think that my spouse wonderfully is supportive of, prob, I probably have made some rather irrational car decisions, including a Carrera GT, honestly, financially. And, um, but you know, it's, it's, it's sort of, it's part of the whole thing. It comes with the territory. Okay. Next question. This is a good one.

• 58:52Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 58:53Doug DeMuro?

  It's a good one. It's not a good one for me, but he individually asked three questions to all three of us. And mine is dumb, but the, yours is good. Old from old Biddy, theoretically for each of you. Doug, someone hands you the keys to an F40. The caveat is you have to get rid of your Ford GT, Carrera GT or Countach. Do you take it? Which do you swap? Yeah, the Ford GT. I wouldn't even be done with the question. Okay.

• 59:13Speaker 02

  I love the Ford GT.

• 59:14Doug DeMuro?

  What if it took two cars to get? Yeah, I'd probably give up the Countach, the Ford GT. Okay, now, Kenan, someone hands you the keys to a 993 Turbo S. The sweetest car, so sweet you could lick it.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  Oh, I did.

• 59:28Doug DeMuro?

  The caveat is, you'll never be able to drive, I don't even know what that means.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  I drove a 993 Turbo S.

• 59:33Doug DeMuro?

  Did you lick it?

• 59:34Speaker 01

  No, I thought about it, though.

• 59:35Doug DeMuro?

  The caveat is, the caveat is, you'll never be able to drive or own another E39 M5 ever again. Do you do it?

• 59:44Speaker 01

  I can't drive my own car ever again.

• 59:46Doug DeMuro?

  No, it's over, it's over.

• 59:46Speaker 01

  But you have this.

• 59:47Doug DeMuro?

  You got this, though. Look at those curves. You'd be known as the Porsche 993 Turbo S guy. Instead of the M5 guy.

• 59:53Speaker 02

  There's a right answer and a wrong answer.

• 59:54Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, I'm pushing it in a certain way, obviously.

• 59:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, the thing with this is, it's like, so someone gate would give me the car.

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, somebody's giving you that car.

• 1:00:03Doug DeMuro?

  But you can never have an E39 M5 in your life ever again.

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  You can have an F10, you can have an E34. You have every other option in the world. You could have a CG5E Blackwing, I don't know, options.

• 1:00:16Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan, look at this. You'd be, you're known as the E39 M5 guy now, but if you had this and drove this daily, you'd be known as the 993 Turbo S guy. After seven years, you'd be like, E30 what? Who? E30 what M5?

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  The mob debate that's happening here is unreasonable.

• 1:00:30Doug DeMuro?

  And then you'd be all over Renlist talking about how the 09991 option doesn't technically mean exclusive.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  No, but I don't want to be a loser.

• 1:00:38Doug DeMuro?

  But that, but you're already that for your M5.

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  The fact that you're debating this in any way, shape, or form is...

• 1:00:45Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan!

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  Well, I love my cars.

• 1:00:47Doug DeMuro?

  You don't love this?

• 1:00:48Speaker 02

  The 993 Turbo S.

• 1:00:49Doug DeMuro?

  You drove this car, you know what this is like. This is one of the greatest driving cars in history.

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  Weird clutch, though. But yeah, it was a...

• 1:00:57Doug DeMuro?

  What? Weird clutch? It's one of the great clutches in history.

• 1:01:00Speaker 01

  It was weird in that car. Um, but, but...

• 1:01:05Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan. Okay, I'll let you think about this for a second, move on to yours. Felipe, someone hands you the keys to an R63 AMG Mercedes.

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  Love those.

• 1:01:15Doug DeMuro?

  The caveat is, you can never drive or own another car that's worth less than $30,000 US again. Do you take the R63? You gotta spend over 30 on every car. Now, I think you've never spent over 30 on any car.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  I have never spent over 30 on any car, and an R36, R63, excuse me, barely there.

• 1:01:33Doug DeMuro?

  If that, you wouldn't do it, but you could have a Mercedes V8 minivan.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  Oh, that'd be so cool.

• 1:01:39Speaker 02

  I love the R sixty-three legitimately. Uh, they're in the thirties.

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  Uh, unfortunately, maintenance costs about thirty grand a year.

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  Yes, that's true. Not true, just the head bolts and some other issues.

• 1:01:51Doug DeMuro?

  You know, those cars had distinctive wheels. No other AMG had those wheels.

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  Really? Um, no, I do love the R sixty-three. I don't want an R sixty-three, therefore no.

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  Okay, Kenan, answer the question.

• 1:02:02Speaker 02

  Kenan.

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  I just love my M five. Kenan, it's a nine-nine-three twin turbo. It's the greatest car ever built.

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  Three hundred forty-five, then we're made.

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  I, I know, I, I did the video, I know the stats. Kenan.

• 1:02:14Speaker 02

  Kenan.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, I'm Kenan.

• 1:02:16Doug DeMuro?

  You're gonna get, you're gonna get destroyed in the comments for this.

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:02:19Doug DeMuro?

  Deserve it, Kenan.

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, but.

• 1:02:20Doug DeMuro?

  Okay.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  Well, here's, let me finish this, though. Like, I, I, I am, like, satisfied with the M five.

• 1:02:25Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but you'd be satisfied with a nine-nine-three twin turbo.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  It's as a second car, I mean, this.

• 1:02:30Doug DeMuro?

  Well, you can buy another car. You can drive other cars.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  You're one person, how many people you bringing around everywhere? It's just too special to use it in a regular base.

• 1:02:38Doug DeMuro?

  You can own other cars.

• 1:02:40Speaker 02

  You can have an E thirty-nine, five-twenty-eight D.

• 1:02:43Doug DeMuro?

  Or a five-forty IM four.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:02:46Doug DeMuro?

  Or a Lincoln Aviator.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  I did timing chain, guys.

• 1:02:53Speaker 01

  Come on, let's do that hell again. Um, I mean, yeah, like, of course, it's objectively a better car, and F forty's a better, a lot of better cars.

• 1:03:00Doug DeMuro?

  But this is a usable better car. This isn't an F forty. Like, I think in an F forty world, that's, you'd want the F four, and you could sell whatever, but like.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  I mean, which.

• 1:03:07Doug DeMuro?

  This is a car.

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  A nine-nine-one Turbo S is also a more usable car.

• 1:03:10Doug DeMuro?

  That's tip, that's tip. This is real.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  Nine-and-seven Turbo.

• 1:03:14Doug DeMuro?

  This is air-cooled, look at those curves, look at that wang, Kenan.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  Dressed out by this.

• 1:03:18Doug DeMuro?

  This is the worst thing that's ever happened.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  You don't know anything about performance cars, anyway. Like, I, I.

• 1:03:23Doug DeMuro?

  But I know rationality. You're not gonna get an answer, Kenan, on this one. I hate to say it, but I, I fear what the answer is, and if that's the answer, then we're gonna replace him on the next podcast with, uh, an inflatable. Okay, two more questions, two more questions, two more questions. What are cars that sell really well, uh, that you think will be infamous and poorly remembered in coming years? Best example, he came up with the PT Cruiser, every question I'm gonna. Most Chrysler.

• 1:03:46Speaker 02

  They don't sell well anymore.

• 1:03:47Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but there was a time. Cars that's that are very appealing.

• 1:03:51Speaker 02

  Taurus, the football Taurus.

• 1:03:52Doug DeMuro?

  No, okay, but for like right now, but right now, I that you think do well in the market right now that will be poorly remembered.

• 1:03:58Speaker 02

  Tesla Model 3. When Model 3s are $4,000 used cars, they're gonna be so ratty.

• 1:04:02Doug DeMuro?

  Model 3 is right.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  Man, that'll be for takeovers. Model 3 will be, yeah.

• 1:04:09Doug DeMuro?

  Model 3 is right.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  Model 3 is a very good choice.

• 1:04:11Doug DeMuro?

  I think a lot of the popular cars, honestly.

• 1:04:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:14Doug DeMuro?

  You think people in 25 years are gonna be looking at today's CRV and being like, oh, that's a hell of a car.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  But that's how you feel about the 25 year old CRV too. It was a car. Fine.

• 1:04:21Doug DeMuro?

  The original CRV, that is not how I feel.

• 1:04:23Speaker 02

  It has a picnic table.

• 1:04:24Doug DeMuro?

  Well, it has the blue. Pull up a blue original CRV. I believe we've sold them. Go down. Go way down. That.

• 1:04:34Speaker 02

  Electron Blue Pearl.

• 1:04:35Doug DeMuro?

  That's what it's called?

• 1:04:36Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:04:36Doug DeMuro?

  That is a car. How did that survive Massachusetts? All wheel drive and a manual?

• 1:04:39Speaker 02

  Huge downside.

• 1:04:40Doug DeMuro?

  Is that called four for six? You didn't buy that car? You're out of your mind.

• 1:04:43Speaker 02

  Did you bid on it?

• 1:04:44Doug DeMuro?

  No, of course not. But you thought about it.

• 1:04:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  What was this comment about it having a return?

• 1:04:49Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, um, I think a lot of modern kind of throwaway-ish type.

• 1:04:54Speaker 02

  Well, no, of course, like what about other, like that it got a special amount of attention. All those throwaway cars don't get any attention.

• 1:05:00Doug DeMuro?

  Well, but he says that sell well.

• 1:05:02Speaker 02

  Oh, Cybertruck.

• 1:05:03Speaker 01

  Cybertruck is the answer there.

• 1:05:04Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:06Speaker 01

  Yikes.

• 1:05:06Speaker 02

  Yep. Yep.

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  I win. Thank you very much.

• 1:05:09Doug DeMuro?

  You know what else? Low end versions of luxury, CLA. The CLA in 10 years is gonna be looked at like, like I've already seen some rough CLAs because they came out 10 years ago and you can buy them cheap, like 250s. I'm talking about like Hologen had like early 250s. Cause there's good CLAs out there too. Um, but like bad early CLAs are gonna be like way worse remembered than the 190.

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  I think that we're already seeing this in the market, uh, a little bit different. I thought 718 Foxter, 17 Caymans are already massively less valuable than than the, than the six cylinder options. And I think they'll continue to be true.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  Good point, Felipe. That's a good one, too.

• 1:05:44Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, okay. Final question from one Uis. That's Luis, but the one is an L.

• 1:05:48Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:05:48Doug DeMuro?

  The L is the one. Uh, Doug, uh, you're forced to buy a seventh car. You can't say no and you can't say anything else. What do you buy? I've had six, I've had the same six cars now for a year and a half. It's probably the longest I've ever had like the same lineup. There were some other cars that I had before, but I kind of pared down to this and I've said many times that I'm done. I'm not buying any other cars. This is it. I've checked every box. So if I did have to get a seventh car, what would I get? I think about it sometimes. I don't have space. Uh, but it'd probably be a 993 turbo.

• 1:06:15Speaker 02

  Arena red.

• 1:06:16Doug DeMuro?

  Arena red 993 Porsche 911 turbo, which Ken and Ken even bring himself to take over his $14,000 M5 is what we're doing right now.

• 1:06:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, look at that arena red.

• 1:06:23Doug DeMuro?

  I bid on it.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  I'll come back to that.

• 1:06:25Doug DeMuro?

  It'd be a 550 Maranello Ferrari, 550 Barca Ferrari, 575 Super America Ferrari, 575 manual Ferrari.

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  You might be picking up on a theme.

• 1:06:36Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, or what other cars have I talked about? Those are kind of the big ones.

• 1:06:40Speaker 02

  And a 40 if you want to go on two million.

• 1:06:42Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but he said money is a constraint. This is like a real scenario. Those are pretty much all I talk about. SC30 Diablo SC30 I would, I would consider it the right number.

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, those are all great choices. I mean, I want you, I think that you should get a Ferrari of some kind.

• 1:06:55Speaker 02

  You don't own one. You haven't owned one in a decade.

• 1:06:57Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, no, I just, those, those, those are the answer. My, for a seventh, that's, that's what I would be considering. It'd be either a Maranello Ferrari, a 993 turbo. Those are kind of the things that, 997 turbo maybe. Those are the kind of cars that I think about the most. SC30, a Diablo of some kind. Those are like the big three that I like still look at prices, look at values, look at sales and think, eh, could I, should I? And then I don't.

• 1:07:18Speaker 01

  Could be you.

• 1:07:18Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, it could be me, but you know what the problem is? I told Sean, here's, let me explain why I haven't got a seventh car. This is the problem. When I buy a car, all right, I gotta title it.

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:28Doug DeMuro?

  And register it, which is a process.

• 1:07:31Speaker 02

  For everybody.

• 1:07:31Doug DeMuro?

  Which is a process. I gotta get it serviced up to my standard. And my standard is not perfection, but it's good enough to daily, which in some cases is harder than perfection because you, you really need the car to be usable. Like for a Countach, it's hard to get a Countach up to a status where you can drive it every single day. No, you, you do this too, but that, but this isn't easy is what I'm going to say. And I told Sean, like, I am willing to put the time and money in on a Countach to get it to this level, but I'm not willing to do it for a 550. Like it's not, do you know what I'm saying? Like I've got these other three special cars. I don't have the energy to put that level of effort into a 550. And then I gotta take it to Kevin and I gotta get him to refinish two of the wheels. And then I gotta put new tires on it. And then I got, you know, there's like seven things and it takes four, every time I buy a car, it's four months and 30 grand

• 1:08:15Doug DeMuro?

  to get the car how I want it. And I just don't, unless the car is something I really, really want, I don't want to do it.

• 1:08:20Speaker 01

  I'll be your collection manager. I'll handle it.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  That's kind of where you, it's kind of the point you get to. That's why these big collections have people that handle that stuff. Cause the guy who buys the car just wants to have the car to drive it. You don't want to deal with the minutia, so you have to.

• 1:08:35Doug DeMuro?

  They don't. And, and, but the thing is my, I don't have enough cars or money to have a car like that. And so like for me, I, I think, I, when I think about a car now, I think about the headaches that are involved. And by the way, every car that is ever sold on one of the auction sites, to me, is not represented the standard that I would want it. So like every time I buy one of these cars, I have to do stuff to it. And I go, I know that going in, like I am not going to accept some of the stuff the Countach had OE. I'm going to want to make reliability modifications that are costly. Same with Courage GT, I'm going to want to put in a suspension lift. I'm going to want to put in heated seats. Like these things are costly and I would want to do this stuff for a 552 and I just don't, it's not worth it to me.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  Heated seats in a 550 would be nice.

• 1:09:12Doug DeMuro?

  Heated seats, Bluetooth in a 550, I would want to do it because I, I want no excuses on having, being able to drive a car. I got that stuff in all my cars. But the problem is, it's just, it's just work and I don't want to put in the work unless it's a car I really, really, really, really want.

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  I want you to get a Ferrari. Ferrari started you on this whole, if it weren't for your 360, that was a pivotal car. That brand elevated you pretty quickly.

• 1:09:34Doug DeMuro?

  Well, Filippo and I feel it was the Karmex Range Rover, which Filippo drove many times by the way.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Both of those cars were important, so I think you should have a Ferrari.

• 1:09:41Doug DeMuro?

  I would love a Ferrari, but the point is I'm not doing it. If, listen, if a, if a 550 showed up at my door and I didn't have to do a thing and it was titled in my name and all set, I'd be happy. But I don't want to take the time, the effort to do it, especially because especially, particularly in the case of the 550, I think I'd get tired of it in a year. And then after all that work, I'd sell it, which is what happened to the RS2. Like I spent a ton of money and time and effort chasing, making that RS2 exactly what I wanted. I registered it in three states. I had, I put perfect blue everywhere. I carboned the interior. And then it was like, you know, I don't love this car that much. And I would do that. I think that would happen with 550. That's why you go big or go home. Three great cars instead of seven okay cars. That's a lesson here for you.

• 1:10:25Speaker 01

  I have three great cars.

• 1:10:30Doug DeMuro?

  All right, we forgot to start the timer. I have no idea where we are on this time for this podcast. Hopefully it's on time. Hopefully it's not too low or high. I have no idea. But thank you so much for watching. This was one of Filippo's more interesting podcasts and our greatest podcast of all time. Goodbye, everybody.

• 1:10:44Speaker 01

  Goodbye.