Sonia Exelby | a Shallow Grave, a Secret Package & a Fatal Mistake (Part 2)

Consider supporting and donating to The Kaylee Goncalves Foundation/Murder Has a Name here: https://www.murderhasaname.com/ There are some people who disappear all at once - One day, they're there, and the next day, they're gone. But sometimes, a person disappears slowly. So slowly that the people who love them don't realize what's happening until they look back and understand that they had been losing them for years. 32-year-old Sonia Exelby was the youngest of six children, and for much of Sonia's life, there were people who loved her very much. But somewhere along the way, Sonia began slipping away from them. At first, it looked like depression. Then isolation. She stopped going out, stopped answering invitations. Stopped letting people in. Until eventually, much of Sonia's world existed through a screen. Online, she could be whoever she wanted to be. She could talk to strangers about the things she was afraid to tell the people who loved her - but listening and helping are not always the same thing... At first, it looked like depression. Then isolation. She stopped going out, stopped answering invitations. Stopped letting people in. Until eventually, much of Sonia's world existed through a screen. Online, she could be whoever she wanted to be. She could talk to strangers about the things she was afraid to tell the people who loved her - but listening and helping are not always the same thing...

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow.

• 0:15Derrick Levasseur?

  And I'm Derek Levasseur.

• 0:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  So we are going into part two of the Sonia Exelby case. And in part one, we told you about 32 year old Sonia Exelby, a gentle, deeply vulnerable woman from England who had spent years struggling with her mental health before retreating further and further into the online world. And somewhere inside some of the darkest corners of the internet, Sonia met a Florida man named Dwayne Hall, a man who Sonia eventually trusted enough to travel more than 4,000 miles to meet. On October 10, 2025, Sonia secretly boarded a plane from London to Gainesville, Florida, where Dwayne Hall was waiting for her at the airport.

• 0:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  She had rented an Airbnb in the small town of Reddick. And according to Hall, Sonia had come to Florida because she wanted him to fulfill a fantasy the two had been discussing for a very long time. She wanted him to end her life. But as we saw at the end of part one, what Sonia wanted when she arrived in Florida and what Sonia wanted after spending some time alone with Dwayne Hall may have been two very different things. And as we saw from part one, Dwayne Hall was really doubling down on the fact that it's like, yeah, that's what she may have wanted. But like, I would never do that. I would never do that. So the fact that you can't find this woman, it has nothing to do with me.

• 1:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  The last time I saw her, she was getting into an Eldorado with Harold, a blacked out Eldorado. And so whatever those Scientology guys did, I couldn't tell you because I couldn't do what she wanted me to do. I'm just way too nice of a guy, too, too good of a person.

• 1:55Derrick Levasseur?

  That was interesting. And you guys gave us your feedback on YouTube, at least where you really liked our reactions to it. So we're going to do more of that. And there was also a lot of comments regarding her booking a return flight and how it basically may have just been a formality because she was from another country. So we

• 2:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  So meaning like, when you have, anytime you go to another country. So even if you're going to the Bahamas or something, you have to fill out a form before you get there that you have to give to immigration. And they're gonna ask you, are you here for work? Are you here for business? Are you here for travel? Like, just pleasure? And then you have to tell them where you're staying while you're in their country, how long you're going to be there. And then usually show, like, the people in the comments are saying, evidence that you have a return flight booked. Because they don't, every country has immigration, right? So they don't want you to just show up in their country and, and stay there forever.

• 2:50Derrick Levasseur?

  Which, which makes a lot of sense. And obviously, we're going to go through this whole case. And you're going to tell us more about the story. And so my opinion may change. But after part one, that whole return flight thing does make sense. It does seem as if Sonia really wanted to do this. And, and she had tried multiple times, sometimes it was interrupted, but she was gonna do this. And, you know, we had, we had, we had entertained the idea that she had booked the return flight in case she wanted to back out. But in reality, if you're, if you're taking these steps, if you're flying across the ocean, more than likely, at that point, you already are committed. You're pretty much in it. And so that, that is, that is the direction I'm leaning right now. And unless you point out some other evidence

• 3:33Derrick Levasseur?

  that may suggest she had a change of heart, you know, and you had said in part one, I believe we talked about it a little bit, where even if that's all true, even if she wanted this, you can't actually perform that, that duty for them. So Dwayne, even if he's, even if he comes out during this story and says, yeah, no, she, she made me do it, it's still against the law.

• 3:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  She made me do it. Okay. So, yeah. So now that we know that Sonia Exelby did in fact, make it to Florida, and that Dwayne Hall was in fact, the man who picked her up from the Gainesville airport, I want to go back and reconstruct this weekend as closely as we can. Because investigators were eventually able to track a surprising amount of Dwayne Hall's movements through receipts, surveillance cameras, financial transactions, and his cellphone. And I want to talk to you about it, Derek, because there's stuff that he's doing during this weekend, that I'm not, I don't know what the motive is. And I also don't know, where was Sonia when this was happening, right? So let's start from the beginning.

• 4:36Derrick Levasseur?

  A lot of places. That's the unfortunate thing about this case.

• 4:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, but

• 4:40Derrick Levasseur?

  A lot of places.

• 4:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, it's just, I, I want, I need to know more. And I have the full police report and the probable cause affidavit and things like that. But obviously, because it appears that this case is going to go to trial this coming November, which I'm very excited about, we're gonna find out a lot more. And I wonder if our, our questions will be answered. I have to feel like they will, because we'll start from the beginning. On Friday, October 10, while Sonia was still in the plane, in the air, Dwayne Hall began preparing for her arrival, right? We know he was at Walmart in Gainesville at 5:47 PM, where he purchased paracord, gun cleaner, 50 feet of rope, and deodorant spray. It was Loom brand deodorant

• 5:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  spray, in case anybody wanted to know. Then seven minutes later, at 5:54 PM, he made a second purchase at that same Walmart. And this is when he bought that shovel. Now, that shovel would later be recovered from Dwayne Hall's home garage. And the gun cleaner was found as well. And Dwayne would claim that he'd used the gun cleaner that weekend at the Reddick Airbnb to clean a gun in his car. He said, the gun belonged to his wife, Ginger, but it was his favorite gun. And although he hadn't used it in 18 months, so he's saying it hasn't been shot in 18 months, he still wanted to clean it that specific weekend, because he said it was getting some rust.

• 6:04Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, as one does. And not only cleaning a gun, I mean, the, the cleaning the gun months later, that's fine. But cleaning it in your truck.

• 6:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, that specific weekend.

• 6:16Derrick Levasseur?

  That specific weekend. Just a damn, you know, coincidence. I feel bad for Dwayne. He's just always wrong place, wrong time, doing things that make him look guilty.

• 6:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  And here's my question, because I don't know, you know, more about guns than I do, obviously, because you worked in law enforcement.

• 6:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and I have, I have a lot of guns, guys. You guys, by this point, know that. I mean, I'm someone who has a bunch of guns.

• 6:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  If you have a gun, and you haven't used it in over a year, 18 months, is it possible that you just kind of look at it, and you're like, oh, this gun is getting kind of rusty? Like, do guns get rusty?

• 6:46Derrick Levasseur?

  They can. Yeah, you want to keep them lubricated. You want to keep them oiled. They can have, they can start to develop some rust. They do have coatings on them. I know this is kind of a deep conversation.

• 6:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's what I thought, that there was some coating on it.

• 6:56Derrick Levasseur?

  Some of them do, the higher end guns. It has a paint called Saracote. And they can be Saracoted, but older guns don't have that coating. And so, or that paint. So they can rust, they can corrode over time. And so you do want to keep them oiled, and in a secured spot where they're protected from the elements. So it's absolutely true what he's saying. What I can tell you is that unless you're at the range, and you want to clean your gun before using it, you're not cleaning it in the front of your car, because it's very inconvenient. Anybody who's cleaned a gun before, you got the oil, you got the, the toothpicks and the different, like, brushes. And when you, when you actually wipe your gun down and you're cleaning it, the spray from the toothbrush that you're cleaning can get all over you.

• 7:39Derrick Levasseur?

  So you like to have like, a nice, big table where you can lay everything out and do it. Unless it's like, an emergency situation, you're more than likely not doing it in your truck.

• 7:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  Right. And, and if for no reason, just like, oh, I noticed this gun was getting a little rusty. So I thought I'd grab some gun cleaner.

• 7:52Derrick Levasseur?

  It would be difficult. I could, like, I have a big truck, but like, to lay it out in an area where I would clean my gun, I could do it, but it wouldn't be fun.

• 8:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  And you need other tools, like you said, toothbrushes, toothpicks.

• 8:03Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, it's like a dental pick. I said toothpicks. It's more like dental picks, or like, to get in the little nooks and crannies, the crevices of all the gun. And then, like, you have, what appears to be like a, like a bristled toothbrush, like something that has like, it's a little firmer. But I'll do a gun cleaning tutorial one day for you guys.

• 8:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  So given the timing of this random gun cleaning, it's more likely, more likely that either he was cleaning the gun because it had been recently used.

• 8:30Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 8:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or it had been touched by someone that he didn't want the gun to be traced back to.

• 8:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. When you shoot a gun, you're gonna have a lot of carbon buildup in there. And, and one way to clean that out, so that, because that carbon can, can get hard over time. But if you want to remove any evidence that the gun was recently fired, that would be the way to do it.

• 8:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  Would you be able to remove evidence that the gun had been recently fired by cleaning it?

• 8:54Derrick Levasseur?

  You would be able to remove most of it, but you're not going to get the microscopic amounts. I am by no means a ballistics expert, but I would imagine, unless you got every single molecule of that, that carbon, this gotta be a way where you could swipe that gun, you could kind of go through it, and then analyze how, how new the carbon is. Maybe I'm wrong on that. Any ballistics people in the comments, let me know. But I would assume that there's a way to tell how long the carbon buildup has been there. And I would imagine that it would be damn near impossible without a microscope to get rid of every single piece of carbon that could identify that it had been shot recently. More importantly, you're gonna have carbon and gunpowder on the outside of the gun. So unless

• 9:39Derrick Levasseur?

  you cleaned every little crevice, you're probably going to have some remnants of that still left behind.

• 9:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I'm asking about this because there's objects that he purchased from Walmart, like the gun cleaner, like the paracord, like the rope, that really don't turn back up again, in an obvious way of like, oh, we understand what he used these things for. Now, the shovel, we understand what he used it for, right?

• 10:04Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, did we, you haven't told us yet, and I didn't look it up.

• 10:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  So we're not going to, yeah, I'm gonna tell you what the shovel was used for. But I'm telling you, we know.

• 10:13Derrick Levasseur?

  Because I don't even know Sonia was found yet. So

• 10:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, it's pretty, pretty obvious.

• 10:16Derrick Levasseur?

  My assumption was that the shovel was used to obviously Dig up a spot and drop her in and the paracord would be something used to tie her up and move her around a little easier.

• 10:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Possibly, but she's a little girl. He's a pretty, you know, strong guy. So was the paracord and the rope used after her, after she's dead? Or was it used beforehand as in this person was a prisoner and unable to leave? And that's kind of the question I have.

• 10:45Derrick Levasseur?

  It could also be of some type of kink as well, right? Where that was part of the whole role playing was to use the paracord in a way where she felt like she was incapable of leaving? That is also an option based on what we know about her.

• 10:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  They asked him about that because, you know, eventually he admits like, yeah, yeah, we had sex. And they're like, well, you've got paracord, you've got rope. Were you using this for bondage? And he's like, oh, no, no, of course not, of course not.

• 11:09Derrick Levasseur?

  He just said in that interview last episode that he's into that.

• 11:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  He is. He did say that, right? He said he's into BDSM. He's into some light bondage. Okay. So now you're looking at the rope and the paracord and the gun cleaner. And when these things don't have a clear sort of connection to anything that we know so far, whereas the shovel does, we have questions. And hopefully while we're looking at the events of this weekend, maybe we can put some of that together with your expertise.

• 11:33Derrick Levasseur?

  I would also say like the paracord, right? Not everything. He was clearly planning for something and that's the disposal of her body after the fact. There's a lot of situations where you have things that are purchased like a paracord, where he's, he's considering the possibility of using it. And for whatever reason, he doesn't because the logistics just didn't work out or he found something different. So I don't know what we're going to find out in this case where certain evidence may not be revealed to, to have us develop a better understanding, but the paracord could have been for multiple uses. Paracord is known for multiple uses, not bondage or the disposal of a dead body. But

• 12:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't know really what paracord is. Is it like kind of a bungee rope?

• 12:15Derrick Levasseur?

  It's a high tensile strength rope. It's used by the military a lot of times, hence paracord. It can be used to create firebows, like when you're camping. It's a, it's a survival cord. It has a lot of uses. To be honest with you, the survival experts out there could give you a list of probably a hundred or 200 different usages for paracord. It's very versatile. And a lot of the times when you see like military or law enforcement people and they have like those thick bands that they're wearing, it's actually paracord that's been tied up to be a bracelet, but can be unraveled and used for emergency situations. It's really cool, actually.

• 12:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  So it doesn't have like a bungee or stretchy aspect to it? It's pretty strong?

• 12:56Derrick Levasseur?

  Not really. Not really. It doesn't have a stretchy aspect to it. It's parachute cord, hence paracord. So

• 13:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, that's, that's interesting. So you want it to be pretty strong?

• 13:03Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, it's not, it is not, it's not stretchy at all.

• 13:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay.

• 13:07Derrick Levasseur?

  It, I would describe it for anybody who hasn't dealt with it, like a really strong shoelace type consistency.

• 13:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  Really woven, so that it's

• 13:15Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, you ain't stretching it. That's for damn sure.

• 13:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  And he's asked, like, well, what did you use the, what did you buy the paracord for? What'd you buy the rope for? And he said, oh, because I had like different projects I had to do. And I don't believe that they ever recovered that paracord or the rope where they did recover the shovel. So that, that's interesting. But at approximately 6:30 PM, we know Sonia got into Dwayne's black Jeep at the Gainesville Regional Airport. They drove away. Dwayne then drove Sonia 27 miles to the Airbnb that she had rented in Reddick, Florida. Now I looked into it, that drive would have taken roughly 40 minutes, especially around that 6:30 time when you got a lot of people on the road. As far as Dwayne's wife or girlfriend or whatever the hell she is or was, as far as Ginger Stein knew, Dwayne

• 14:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  was on a work trip that weekend. And from this moment on, Sonia Exelby's movements become very difficult to track. But Dwayne Hall's didn't necessarily become difficult to track because the following morning, which was Saturday, October 11th, at approximately 9:20 AM, surveillance video showed Hall going through the drive-through of a Dunkin' Donuts in Gainesville, where he paid for an iced coffee with cash. And investigators later found this discarded Dunkin' Donuts cup inside the Reddick Airbnb. So with this, questions do arise, right? Gainesville is over 20 miles away from Reddick. There's no Dunkin' Donuts in Reddick. I looked it up. It's a very, very small, like very isolated

• 14:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  kind of rural town. So there's no Dunkin' Donuts in Reddick, but there is a Dunkin' Donuts in Ocala. That would have been a way closer Dunkin' Donuts to Reddick. And that's also where Dwayne Hall lived. It was half the distance from the Dunkin' Donuts in Gainesville that he chose to go to. So another question I have is, was Sonia with Dwayne when he purchased the coffee? Did he have a specific reason to go to Gainesville that morning? If he just wanted an iced coffee, it would have taken him half the time to drive to Ocala and get one. And if he's got Sonia at the Airbnb and she's not with him, could she have just left? Was she tied up and that's why she couldn't leave? What's going on here?

• 15:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  You know, why did he drive so far to Gainesville to get an iced coffee when he could have taken half the time to go to Ocala if he really needed an iced coffee from Dunkin' Donuts? So what was the trip to Gainesville that morning for? And where was Sonia at that time?

• 15:41Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, I'm interested to hear, I don't know if it's today or in the next part, if Sonia was found and if she was found, where was she found? Because maybe he was scouting locations for a possible body disposal?

• 15:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, based on what I know, that's not the case.

• 16:00Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay. You know, a lot more than me, but I can't explain that. On the surface, it doesn't make sense. You just explained why it doesn't make sense. Obviously there's more to that story than, than I currently know. Maybe you do, but it wouldn't make a lot of sense to do that unless there was something along that trip that you needed to pick up or you wanted to see. That's the only thing I can deduce from that.

• 16:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  Something in Gainesville, right?

• 16:21Derrick Levasseur?

  Something in Gainesville that you wanted to check out. Yeah.

• 16:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  So then at 11:54 AM, Dwayne Hall is back in Reddick and he made a purchase at the Dollar General in Reddick. So this Dollar General was located about 3.4 miles from the Airbnb. And they never released the address of the Airbnb. It took me a long time to find it. I'm going to be honest with you because the Airbnb itself was not an actual like house. It was one of those like, I don't know, like, what do they call them? Kind of modular homes?

• 16:54Derrick Levasseur?

  Like a trailer home? Like a trailer park?

• 16:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, sort of.

• 16:56Derrick Levasseur?

  Like a mobile home?

• 16:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, a mobile home. I guess. I don't know if I would call it that. It was kind of like one of the, but, but anyways, a company sells them, a specific company sells them. And so I tried Google reverse imaging the picture that they put in the police file and it pulls up every single one that this company's ever sold and it goes to the company's website. So that was difficult to find. So then I had to go through all the pictures and actually locate, because this specific like modular home thing in Reddick had a porch built on it. But a lot of them have a porch built on. So I, yeah. So I almost wonder if that porch is kind of like an extra thing you can pay for because a lot of them had,

• 17:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  yeah, the exact same porch. So then I had to compare like the, it kind of has like a weeping willow tree in the background. And then there's like a, a utilities box specifically located in a certain place and a light post. So I had to compare all of those things. And I found the address. So I was able to get the exact driving times between where Dwayne Hall was going and where the Airbnb was located. So that Dollar General, about 3.4 miles from the Airbnb. Then at 12:06 PM, Dwayne Hall was at a Petro station. So that was three and a half miles away from the Dollar General and seven miles away from the Airbnb. And this is where he purchased some food items, including a sandwich and strawberries.

• 18:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  And then the packages and wrapping from those food items were later recovered from the trash at the Airbnb. So once again, at both the Dollar General and the Petro station, we don't know if Sonia Exelby was with Dwayne Hall. We know that the items that Dwayne Hall purchased while out and about that day, specifically the trash from the food and the Dunkin' Donuts cup ended up back at the Reddick Airbnb. So we know he went back there. And he didn't seem to be careful about leaving those things with his DNA there, which is weird to me because he knew the Airbnb was purchased under her name. You know, there's so many things that really don't make sense about what he did that day. But the reason that I'm talking about was Sonia with him, we'll, we'll figure out what

• 19:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  that reason is later because there's a big thing that comes up where he is seen on surveillance with somebody this weekend, or he's seen and somebody is in his vehicle this weekend. So that's an interesting thing. Now, we also know that on the evening of Saturday, October 11th, Dwayne Hall called his wife Ginger from the Airbnb. He used his cell phone to call his wife and tell her that he loved her and good night. Yeah. So where was Sonia when that call was happening? You know?

• 19:34Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. Where's Sonia in all of this? Like, is she tied up? Is her, is her mouth being taped shut where she can't yell for help?

• 19:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  Is she unconscious?

• 19:42Derrick Levasseur?

  Is she unconscious? Is she already dead at that point?

• 19:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, we know she wasn't dead on, at least at some point on Saturday, because that's when he takes the video of her, right?

• 19:51Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. Oh, yes. So, yeah. So she wouldn't be dead at that point. As far as the driving around, it's unfortunate. We don't have any cameras to get, get a better insight into whether he was alone or not.

• 20:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  So they say when they see him on surveillance, it's unclear as to whether someone's with him. So

• 20:05Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, someone could still be in the truck.

• 20:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 20:07Derrick Levasseur?

  It's possible that knowing what was about to occur, maybe this was the last like trip around and maybe they were just honestly sightseeing. It could be as simple as that where it was just like, hey, one last pass through Florida to get a Get a lay of the land because she knew that her life was coming to an end. Or it could be much more sinister where like you've alluded to that. She's tied up back at the house and he's out running errands.

• 20:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  Cause listen to this, he buys one coffee, not two.

• 20:33Derrick Levasseur?

  That's right. That's right.

• 20:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  He buys one sandwich, not two.

• 20:37Derrick Levasseur?

  Not two, yeah.

• 20:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's almost like he's not feeding her.

• 20:40Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 20:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  Right? Or like giving her even food or what he might consider to be a last meal.

• 20:45Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, it's so hard because of the circumstances and the foundation of this case because we know definitively like this. This person Sonia had some ideations of dying in this way, being kidnapped and being essentially to a certain degree, kind of tortured.

• 21:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  Tortured, assaulted, hurt, yeah.

• 21:04Derrick Levasseur?

  This is by no means taking any culpability away from of Dwayne at all. I'm just, I'm trying to truly understand what the circumstances were. At the core, we know where this is going, but this could all have been part of the role playing. It doesn't make it okay. But that's, you know, we're trying to find out the details of what happened and with the video that we have on Saturday. By the way, I know you're going to look into this. Thank you to everybody who commented and said there are pieces of this video that are out there. We're aware of it. Stephanie's looking at it right now. We're unsure whether or not we're going to show it, but.

• 21:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, Derek just sent me the link. I'm going to review it because next, the next part of this, the third and final part, we're going to go deeper into like, what was Sonia's state of mind at the time?

• 21:46Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 21:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  And so I want to review the video. I, he sent me the link and I haven't been able to bring myself to click on it yet, to be honest with you.

• 21:54Derrick Levasseur?

  Shout out to Megan, one of our listeners. She sent me all the timestamps and everything. I was like, oh, this is awesome. Makes it.

• 21:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  Derek was like, well, they said it's not, not anything bad, but still like, I feel like, I don't know.

• 22:03Derrick Levasseur?

  That's, that's a slippery slope. So we'll let you guys know, but we are aware of it. And in that video, it does seem like on one hand, it looks like she's being held against her will, but then you also have to ask the question. Is that all part of this? Is that what they're, that's what they're intending to do? So it, it does make it difficult to kind of differentiate from what's reality and what's part of the, the whole thing they're, they're, they're playing up here. You know, this was obviously very planned out beforehand. She flew all the way from the UK to come over here for this.

• 22:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. And the question is, as far as I know, from the police report, at least there's no timestamp on that video, at least that we've been given, right? So we know it was taken on October 11th, that Saturday, but we don't know what time. So by the time we see Dwayne going to Dunkin' Donuts and the Dollar Store, and this isn't that. Was Sonia already dead? The timestamp of that video would help us understand that. Uh, cause if it was taken at like 4:00 PM, then Sonia wasn't dead, but was she unconscious? Was she tied up? Was she unable to leave or move? And we know at some point on Saturday, Sonia also had access to her phone. Where she was able to send messages out. We're going to talk about that. So how was she?

• 23:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  And on that Saturday, was she there at the B and B while Dwayne was out and about and she could have walked out and left? Was it not that bad yet? Were, was she still okay? And the whole beating and, you know, really going deeper than she maybe wanted it to go. It didn't happen until after he got back. These are questions that we have to answer. So let's take a quick break and we'll be right back.

• 23:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  This episode is brought to you by OneSkin and you guys know I love skincare. I mean, if you watch me anywhere, you know, I love skincare. I'm really into it. But I've also reached the point where I'm a little suspicious of skincare that promises the moon and then just basically smells nice or feels nice.

• 23:55Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. There are a lot of products out there that sound impressive, but when you look closer, they're mostly focused on surface level results.

• 24:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  If that, if that. And that's what really made OneSkin stand out to me. When I started using it because I like researching, I like knowing about stuff. I like knowing all the details about stuff. You guys know that about me too. So I've really enjoyed learning about OneSkin because it's skincare that's actually backed by science. And skincare backed by studies and things that you can look at. And it's become such an easy addition to my daily routine. So instead of chasing a few quick fixes, OneSkin focuses on helping your skin stay healthier over time. I really like that approach.

• 24:32Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. And their origin story is pretty interesting as well because OneSkin wasn't started at just another beauty brand. It was founded by four PhD longevity scientists who were studying skin aging, right? They researched hundreds of ingredients and tested more than 900 peptides before developing the proprietary peptide OS1.

• 24:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's why I appreciate, uh, OneSkin. They are looking at a leading driver of visible skin aging, not just trying to make your skin look temporarily shiny for 15 minutes. Their OS1 peptide is designed to support skin that looks smoother, brighter, more even, and shows fewer visible fine lines with continued use.

• 25:08Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. And it's not just a brand saying, trust us, right? Their products are supported by four peer reviewed clinical studies, over 10,000 five star reviews. And they've been recognized by Bloomberg and Fast Company as a leader in skin longevity.

• 25:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  Their eye cream is the, I am a huge fan. I love this eye cream. I have it on, um, the subscription, so I'm always getting it. And if I run out, I'm trying to crack open the thing and get everything out of there that I can, because I just love it. So, uh, that's the kind of skincare that I think we should all be interested, something that supports our skin now, but also as we age, right?

• 25:43Derrick Levasseur?

  Very, very reasonable goal. I think, I think we would all agree with that.

• 25:46Stephanie Harlowe?

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• 26:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right, we're back. So the Airbnb had been rented by Sonia and it was reserved from October 10th, Friday through October 12th, Sunday. Now the owners of that property told the police that it had been set up as a no contact check-in, meaning that the check-in process had been completed through the Airbnb application. And someone did check in on the 10th and communicated during the reservation period using Sonia's account. So someone also used the same account to check out on the morning of October 12th. Uh, Airbnb's default checkout time is usually 11:00 AM. And it hasn't been revealed what time Sonia's account checked out. But here's what I will also say.

• 27:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  I wonder if there's evidence that Sonia's Airbnb account was signed in on Dwayne Hall's phone because remember the police said when Sonia landed in the United States, two UK phone numbers went dark, were turned off. So if those phones weren't ever turned back on, or at least they weren't turned back on to a point where they had some kind of service, which you wouldn't, right? If you had a UK phone number and you landed in the US, you wouldn't immediately have service on that phone, right? You would still probably see it roaming and doing something, but you wouldn't necessarily be able to send messages or, or do anything where you could communicate with someone, correct?

• 27:47Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't know how long it would take for the service to reactivate because you'd be basically on a roaming service at that point. But I think your point still holds because if she had turned her phone back on, even if it were just to use the data. More than likely for a second there, her phone would have connected to one of those towers. And the detectives would have had a much better idea of where she currently was at that point. Because it would have triangulated off of there to give them her coordinates. This wasn't, this is 2025. So they would have been able to track her in much more detail if she had turned her phone on. So because of that barrier and because of the work they had to do to identify her last known whereabouts, that to me suggests that the phones were never turned back on, which would align with what you're, uh, inferring.

• 28:32Derrick Levasseur?

  Is that potentially the Airbnb account was logged in by, by Dwayne or from his phone or from a phone or a device that he had in his possession?

• 28:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  But once again, we know that Sonia at some point on Saturday did try to use one of her phones at least.

• 28:47Derrick Levasseur?

  That's right.

• 28:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  To message a friend. And it doesn't look like those messages went through. It looks like she just tried to send them, but they never connected to anything and went through.

• 28:55Derrick Levasseur?

  So she didn't have, yeah, again, being not on the, maybe she didn't have the international plan active.

• 29:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  Exactly, exactly.

• 29:02Derrick Levasseur?

  There could be a few different reasons why it didn't go through, but in that moment, she wasn't, she wasn't connecting those dots.

• 29:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  But then they did say like, that the service wasn't great in this area of Reddick in general. Not like Dwayne said, where you just couldn't get anything in or out because Harold had blockers. Cause he was able to call his wife Saturday night and say goodnight, right? But the fact that she couldn't get those messages out leads me to believe that the Airbnb app was potentially on Dwayne's phone because he was able to check in and check out and that was done successfully, which you would need the internet to do.

• 29:37Derrick Levasseur?

  I would imagine that he was heavily involved with the location selection because this is someone who's familiar with the area.

• 29:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  More familiar than her, yeah.

• 29:46Derrick Levasseur?

  So even though, even though Sonia paid for it, I would imagine if we had access to all of their digital correspondence or even their phone conversations, there would have been a point where he would have said, hey, book a, book a spot over here. I know the area. It's remote. We'll be alone. This is a good spot for what we're trying to accomplish. And so he would be heavily involved in that process. So to imagine that he had access to the Airbnb account, I don't think that's a stretch.

• 30:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. He might've even said, you know, send me the login information for your Airbnb account.

• 30:20Derrick Levasseur?

  I'll book it.

• 30:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'll book it because her payment method and everything would have already been uploaded.

• 30:24Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, also very possible. He, he was definitely a big part of the coordination here. This is not a guy who was told where to be, when to be there, and he just did exactly what she wanted. He was involved in the planning.

• 30:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  Exactly. And, and that has not been stated yet, but this is kind of one of those like, uh, you know, it seems obvious and common sense.

• 30:42Derrick Levasseur?

  You're in his, his backyard, if you want to put it that way. This is his stomping grounds, not hers. You haven't gave us any information that she had been in this area before, so she didn't have a familiarity with it. He picked her up from the airport, drove her out there. He definitely appears to have known this location better than her. And that would, that would suggest that he was, at least from the location point perspective, he was heavily involved in that process.

• 31:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I think he was the one who checked in, who communicated throughout the reservation period, and then on Sunday morning, checked out.

• 31:14Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep, makes sense. Well, we know it wasn't her that checked out.

• 31:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  We don't. That's the thing.

• 31:19Derrick Levasseur?

  You're saying that they could have checked out even with that video?

• 31:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, yes. This is why it's very, it's very complicated.

• 31:26Derrick Levasseur?

  At this point, we don't have proof, but it, it wouldn't make a lot of sense based on what, why we're covering this case and the reason and the purpose for renting that Airbnb. But I get, I get where you're coming from. It's, it's not unreasonable to say, is it possible they left and went to a secondary location? I have no, no evidence to suggest that they didn't. And so that does say something. My gut tells me it all happened in there, though.

• 31:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  They found, well, here's, I don't know. See, they found a few like drops of blood on a comforter.

• 31:56Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 31:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  But there's no other description that any other blood was found. And Dwayne Hall, we're going to see messages that he's sending a friend later. And he says something that alludes to the fact that that Airbnb was not the place where Sonia died. Okay, so.

• 32:10Derrick Levasseur?

  It's gonna be big to find if we find Sonia. If we find Sonia, then we're gonna get a, a cause and manner of death. And that could explain why there's a lack of blood. But again, we'll see if we get there.

• 32:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  So Airbnb's default checkout time, 11. Now, we don't know what time Sonia's account checked out, but Dwayne Hall's phone records showed him leaving the Reddick property on the morning of October 12th, which would have been Sunday, at which point he drove south. He stopped at a Lowe's in Ocala, where he purchased a plastic tarp. Now, here's the detail that grabs me. In the police report, it says that Dwayne Hall parked his vehicle in the parking lot of Lowe's. This is seen on the store surveillance. And it appears that he was talking to someone in the passenger seat before he entered the store. The police report also states that Hall's vehicle wasn't close enough to the store to see clearly, but it appeared that there was someone in the passenger seat while Hall was away from

• 33:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  the vehicle in Lowe's. And this person can be seen moving around inside the car while Dwayne Hall was inside of Lowe's.

• 33:10Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, very interesting. And I see now where the assumption that Sonia was dead prior to checking out that morning becomes less likely, right?

• 33:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  Unless, unless he picked someone else up or because he drove from Reddick to Ocala, where he lived, did he pick someone else up who helped him?

• 33:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 33:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  Right?

• 33:30Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. Or, or even more than that, okay? We keep saying, oh, we're, we're talking about the fact that Dwayne, if this all went down the way we think it did, there was something between the two of them, he killed her, and that's the end of it, right? Is it possible there's another player in this game that we're unaware of? Was the fantasy to have multiple people torture her, assault her, and, and kill her? I don't know. I know that, didn't you say last?

• 33:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  Last time she was gonna meet more than one person.

• 34:00Derrick Levasseur?

  There was more than one person. So is it possible that he recruited a friend or someone else who was involved in this, in this circle that showed up at the house later, who wasn't on that video, that Saturday video? And after killing her, that's the person we're seeing in the front seat?

• 34:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:17Derrick Levasseur?

  We don't know.

• 34:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's what I'm wondering. Or, or because he lived in Ocala and he drove to Ocala, he could have stopped somewhere in Ocala before he goes to Lowe's. Maybe his, his partner, Ginger Stein.

• 34:28Derrick Levasseur?

  Ginger.

• 34:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay. I know, like, I know. She's a victim in this. She's a victim. I don't know how much Ginger's a victim in this. I'm gonna be honest with you because she's given interviews afterwards. That doesn't make her seem like that much of a victim, okay?

• 34:41Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, okay. Yeah, there's a lot of different scenarios here. Friends, associates, partners, also people that could have been met online who have similar fantasies, similar kinks. Lot of different options here. It's a lot of investigative work needed.

• 34:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I'm gonna talk about it next time, but there's a lot of kind of missing people in this area of Florida who are sort of matching the description of Sonia. And there's some online that I've been talking to who live in the area who speculate that Sonia wasn't the first and that there is a network of people operating in this area.

• 35:16Derrick Levasseur?

  I buy that 100%.

• 35:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. So after this, after Lowe's, Dwayne Hall drove to a Dunkin' Donuts in Ocala, where he purchased a coffee. The police report says at this point, it's unclear if there's a passenger in his vehicle at this time. And then Dwayne drove to another location where he remained for an hour. So when he talked to the police on October 17th, this is the area where he claimed he went when he thought he was being followed by some silver, beige, color shifting blackout vehicle. And then he pulled off next to a wooded area and he tried to evade whoever was following him. Dwayne told the police he knew he was there for about an hour because he smoked some dabs to calm his nerves. And he also told the police that when he left the area, he saw the vehicle that had been following

• 36:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  him pull into that same area by the woods. Okay? So let's go back to Dwayne Hall during his October 17th interview with Florida Department of Law Enforcement Agent Rebecca McKenzie and Joseph Miller. So you were right, by the way, Joseph Miller was local. He wasn't an, an FDLE agent. He was the, uh, the, the local police. So he represented the local police.

• 36:24Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and that happens a lot, by the way. When you have a federal agency or an outside party, whether it's state or county, whatever it might be, it's usually a collaborative effort where you still have the local jurisdiction somewhat involved, even though we can clearly see who's heading up this interrogation. FDLE is handling it. But whether it's as a partnership or as a courtesy, he's being allowed to be in that room as well in case he can add context to certain things, specifically location-based things.

• 36:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  So Dwayne Hall said that he and Sonia had been chatting online for a while. And about eight months prior to October of 2025, they'd spoken on the phone to feel each other out. He said this was well before everything went to hell with his wife Ginger and well before his priorities in life had totally changed. He said the phone call was kind of cool because it was the first time he'd ever spoken to a real person from the UK. He said the phone call was casual. They just got to know each other a bit. And Sonia told him about her boyfriend, who was not into the kind of sexual things that Sonia was into. Now, Dwayne said they didn't do any sexual talking on the phone because at that point Sonia had become a real person to him. It was different than just chatting

• 37:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  online and it felt more wrong now considering that he was married and, and a good family man. So Dwayne claimed that after the phone call, they did chat some more online, but then his wife got really sick and he pulled away. And he said at that point, it should have been clear to Sonia that his energy and his interests had been redirected. Now, when asked what username he was using online, Dwayne acted as if he couldn't remember. And then he said it was probably sadist something, maybe alpha sadist. In fact, the username that Dwayne Hall used to communicate with Sonia on Motherless was alpha sadist.

• 38:12Speaker 02

  I know that she is not alive anymore. I know that. You know that. And I want to find her.

• 38:27Speaker 03

  No, I don't know that.

• 38:29Speaker 02

  I think you do.

• 38:32Speaker 03

  I don't know that. I suspect that. I strongly suspect that.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  And I need your help to help me find her because you are the person that was with her and you were the one to.

• 38:48Speaker 03

  I was the last one to see her live.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  And you were the one to help her and to communicate with her. And you were the one that picked her up from the airport. It's time to just, like, we've had this conversation. I understand, um, how you all met and the conversations and what the expectations were. And I also know that those expectations were met and that you helped her. And I want to find her so that I can tell her family that she's been found because she deserves that. And you just helped her do something that she wanted to do and has been trying to do for a very long time. She has been trying to do this for a very long time.

• 39:36Speaker 03

  She went off to somebody else.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  You know she didn't.

• 39:42Speaker 03

  And where she went.

• 39:44Speaker 02

  You do know where she's at.

• 39:46Speaker 03

  I have no idea where she went.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  And you know that she's not alive anymore.

• 39:52Speaker 03

  I know she probably got what she wanted because she wasn't gonna take anything else.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  Right. I know that.

• 39:58Speaker 03

  I don't know where the fuck she went. I don't know where she's at. I don't know where she ended up. I don't know anything else.

• 40:06Speaker 02

  As an adult, she has the right to want that, and she reached out to you to help her.

• 40:14Speaker 03

  And I failed her.

• 40:15Speaker 02

  You didn't. You didn't.

• 40:18Speaker 03

  I failed her. In that regard, I failed her. I'm not the one that was, that you are so delicately trying to go around.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  I'm not delicately.

• 40:30Speaker 03

  Uh, let me explain.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 40:32Speaker 03

  You're the one that's delicately trying to go around and explain and trying to get this, the thing that I'm the one that killed her. I'm not the one. I didn't have anything to do with that end of it. I barely had anything to do with her after she got here. I didn't want her here. I wanted to do my job after my wife and everything like that.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  I said that you helped her.

• 40:56Speaker 03

  I don't even know what you're getting at. I don't know where.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  You, you helped her, whether that means you helped her die or you helped put her somewhere after she did what she wanted to do. You helped her. We know that.

• 41:15Speaker 03

  I don't, you see, we're gonna, we're getting into a dangerous territory here.

• 41:20Speaker 02

  Why is this dangerous?

• 41:21Speaker 03

  Because, because no matter what I say, I feel myself getting roped in further and further and further into something that I had no part of that you guys need answers for.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  I don't think that you're a bad person because you helped her do what she wanted to have done. I actually think you're a person that regardless of those thoughts that you said that you had, the violent tendencies and the things like that, you saw a person who is in pain, who needed help to do something that she didn't have the ability to do for herself and she had been trying for a very long time. And I actually think that that comes from a place of compassion.

• 42:09Speaker 03

  I tried to talk her out of it many times over the last year or so that she and I had talked. Many, many times. I tried. I even, I even refocused her to such a degree before my wife got sick.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:24Speaker 03

  Okay. Before my wife got sick. I had even refocused her to a degree that she said it's the first time she'd ever enjoyed living.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  So I'm sorry. You want to find her? I understand. You guys have a job to do. You think that I have something to do with that? And, okay.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  But I'm not saying it in a negative way.

• 42:46Speaker 03

  Listen, listen. I'm the last one to see her alive, and I get that. And I'm the only link that you guys have to anything tangible. I get that also. If I was sitting where y'all were sitting, I would be looking at me the same fucking way. We are not on a separate page here in that regard. However, I do not know where she's at. You don't know what happened to her. I strongly suspect that she is no longer with us. But I can't tell you anything else. I don't know.

• 43:17Speaker 04

  Do I not be honest? I don't believe you.

• 43:19Speaker 03

  I don't have to.

• 43:20Speaker 04

  You've given this whole thing about tangible things that just disappear and

• 43:25Speaker 03

  I know.

• 43:26Speaker 04

  people that exist but don't exist and look like everybody, you know, in Marion County and Alcala.

• 43:32Speaker 03

  That, that was a joke.

• 43:33Speaker 04

  And so I just, the thing is, is you're, you're trying to create this elaborate story that gives you, gives you all cleanliness of nothing to do with this and any wrongdoing. I, I just don't believe you.

• 43:47Speaker 03

  Okay, that's fine.

• 43:48Speaker 04

  I, I think that.

• 43:50Speaker 03

  I already told the wife that nobody had ever fucking believed that this fucking happened. I already know, I already knew, which is why until the direct questions were asked, I didn't even bother bringing it to fuck up. Why would I? Why would I? I'm gonna get the same shit from you.

• 44:06Speaker 04

  Because if you know what the end result is of this whole thing, just be upfront with the information that you know. You indicated that you didn't know her at all, that you had never even met with her when this first came up. And now you're talking about having sex with her, recording things and then deleting them, and it, I guess from my perspective, if you can try to understand it, it doesn't look great.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  I already know it doesn't look great. And that's, there's a whole big reason for why that things can't, or information comes about the way it does from me at this particular juncture. Okay? There's a huge reason for that. Because one, I already knew nobody had fucking believed me. I already knew, I already knew. Me and the wife had already talked about that part of it. Nobody had ever fucking believed me what happened.

• 44:49Speaker 02

  Why?

• 44:50Speaker 03

  I, I'm either a suspect or I'm not.

• 44:54Speaker 02

  A suspect in what, though? That's the question.

• 44:56Speaker 03

  Well, as far as I understand it legally, isn't that if you end a person's life, isn't that murder?

• 45:03Speaker 04

  I can't tell you what you are because you're not telling me everything. So to give you a direct answer, you'd have to give me a straight answer.

• 45:12Speaker 03

  Not sure. I'm thinking about that dirty word real fucking hard right now.

• 45:17Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, I love, I love watching these videos. I, I could watch them all day long. I love the, the psychological warfare that goes on in these interviews. And by the way, both of these interrogators are doing an amazing job. I, I, I think it kind of goes without being said, even people who are not familiar with interrogation techniques, that the, the woman officer, and I apologize, I'm, I'm, the names, there's so many names.

• 45:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  Rebecca McKenzie from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

• 45:45Derrick Levasseur?

  Uh, Detective McKenzie, right? Detective McKenzie, she is playing sympathizer, right?

• 45:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  She's the good cop.

• 45:51Derrick Levasseur?

  She doesn't, yeah, she's playing good cop. She doesn't actually believe what she's saying. I've talked to you guys about this before where I've been in interrogation rooms with child molesters, and I've had to rationalize what they did to get them to admit to it, and it made my stomach turn. But in that moment, you have to make them feel like you're on their side.

• 46:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  Like they have an ally somewhere.

• 46:13Derrick Levasseur?

  That's right. They have someone who understands them, and it makes them more willing to open up and less likely to lawyer up, to be honest. You want to continue the conversation. You don't want them to feel like they're back into a corner because once they lawyer up, the interrogation is over. On the other hand, you just said Detective McKenzie was playing good cop. Well, what, what's the other gentleman's name?

• 46:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  I, I can't remember his name off the top of my head. I said it earlier.

• 46:38Derrick Levasseur?

  The other detective.

• 46:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  The local cop, yeah.

• 46:40Derrick Levasseur?

  The local guy, he's playing bad cop, right?

• 46:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, at this point, yeah, he's kind of sick of it. He wasn't always playing bad cop. We know that.

• 46:46Derrick Levasseur?

  No, but that's his role. He, he has seen what Detective McKenzie's doing, and he knows his, his, his job here. He knows that she's his friend and ally, and I wouldn't be surprised. I could be wrong here, but at a certain point during this interrogation, if we have the video for it, he's gonna leave. He's gonna leave for a moment to go catch some air and, and, and kind of like refresh, and it's gonna give an opportunity for him, for Dwayne, to confide in the good cop, the good cop who has his back. That's usually the way this tactic works, where you get him riled up, you feel like it's her and Dwayne against the bad cop, and that's when he's more willing to say, okay, I'm willing to talk to you. Here's what happened. You understand.

• 47:28Derrick Levasseur?

  But, um, I love this approach. I love what they're doing. I also love that the, the guy detective here wasn't really saying much, and he allowed Detective McKenzie to kind of guide the conversation. And it wasn't until they felt like they squeezed all the juice out of that lemon in Dwayne, where now he's stepping in going, you're full of shit. You're full of shit, and I know you're full of shit, because they feel at this point they've gotten everything they're gonna get, and now Dwayne's just making stuff up.

• 47:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I think what we have here too is with, with Detective or Agent McKenzie, she almost has an easier job of doing what she's doing as opposed to you trying to be in a room with a child molester and make that child molester think that you like understand their motivations, right?

• 48:10Derrick Levasseur?

  It's not fun.

• 48:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  Because with, with McKenzie, what she's saying is kind of like, oh, what's the difference between this gray area, between what's morally okay and what's legally okay, where it's like, well, this is what she wanted to do. Like, we know. We have evidence that this is what she wanted to do. So like, if you just helped her, you know, like, we, we just need to find her. That's what our main motive, we're not trying to throw you in prison. We're not trying to, you know, paint you as anything. We just want to find her and give her back to her family. And, but Dwayne, he doesn't believe, right? He's, I don't want to say he's smart, but he's also.

• 48:43Derrick Levasseur?

  He's not taking the bait.

• 48:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's, yeah, he's of the mind of like, yeah, you're, I know what you're trying to do here, because he's like, I'm sorry, isn't it? Like, when you kill somebody, isn't that murder?

• 48:50Derrick Levasseur?

  What, what does it tell us, Stephanie, about Dwayne?

• 48:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  About Dwayne, that he knows that what he did is wrong?

• 48:55Derrick Levasseur?

  He's, he, he knows what he did is wrong, but more importantly, he's researched this. And that tells me one of two things. Either he just put in the work before this one to understand what he was doing and the, the legal implications.

• 49:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or he's done this before.

• 49:09Derrick Levasseur?

  Bingo. There you go. This isn't his first rodeo.

• 49:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I, I genuinely believe at this point.

• 49:14Derrick Levasseur?

  I would, I would lean that way as well.

• 49:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  That he's done this before.

• 49:16Derrick Levasseur?

  I would lean that way as well, yes.

• 49:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  So, uh, they're gonna keep talking to him. Let's take a quick break. We'll come right back and go over that because it gets worse.

• 49:29Stephanie Harlowe?

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• 49:37Derrick Levasseur?

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• 49:45Stephanie Harlowe?

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• 49:55Derrick Levasseur?

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• 50:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  Wow.

• 50:02Derrick Levasseur?

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• 50:06Stephanie Harlowe?

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• 50:15Derrick Levasseur?

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• 50:27Stephanie Harlowe?

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• 50:39Derrick Levasseur?

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• 50:44Stephanie Harlowe?

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• 51:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, we're back. So you heard at the end of that last clip, Dwayne Hall said he's thinking about using that dirty word. And he's referring to asking for a lawyer. And I've seen people in interrogations do this before, kind of like, I'll talk to you. But if I ever feel like I have to ask for a lawyer, I'm going to stop. Kind of like they're dangling it over their head.

• 51:50Derrick Levasseur?

  If it's checkmate where there's nowhere to go and there's no way to navigate out of a corner? Okay, lawyer, lawyer.

• 51:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  Don't bring me to a place where I'm not comfortable asking or answering these questions.

• 52:00Derrick Levasseur?

  So I really wish every one of you could experience this because you want to back them into a corner because you can easily do it as a detective, but you also still have to give them an out on each side of you where they don't feel trapped. So it's like this really weird.

• 52:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  You can only trickle stuff out. You can't just be like, hey, we know this, this, this, this, this. And then they're going to be like lawyer.

• 52:20Derrick Levasseur?

  It's a balancing act. Like you want to just drop it on them. You want to just completely empty the clip with everything you have. But you can't because you have to be right in the middle where you're letting them know that you know more than they think you know. But also maybe you're still oblivious to what happened. And there's an opportunity for them to say more and get themselves out of a situation when in reality, it's probably going to make it worse. So you don't want them. And people may not like this, but as an interrogator, we want to, we want to interrogate you. We don't want you to lawyer up. It's not because we're intimidated by the lawyer or we don't feel you deserve representation. But we know that this interview is going to be the best chance we get at finding out what happened. Because after consultation, you're probably not going to say much.

• 53:05Derrick Levasseur?

  This is going to go to trial. So you can't blame a detective for wanting that.

• 53:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  Especially when you have all the evidence against someone like Dwayne Hall, where it's like, it's really, really, it's really obvious what happened here, right? Like, and I got to sit here for hours and practice so much restraint with this person and so much self-control when I just want to be like, hey, kind of like a lawyer, here's the file. We know exactly what you did, why you did it. We know, so just tell us. But then you can't find Sonia and the body is a big piece of evidence.

• 53:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, they, they strongly believe she's dead. That is the one truth thing they're saying. They're trying to find her.

• 53:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  And, and Dwayne's saying, I mean, I strongly suspect she is. He's like, you don't know that? I don't know that. If I don't know that, you don't know that. I strongly suspect she is.

• 53:51Derrick Levasseur?

  But there's a part here where he's unsure of what they know and if they've already found her or not.

• 53:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, because he knows they not only have his car, but he left his phone in his car. So they have his phone, right?

• 54:03Derrick Levasseur?

  He's already realizing during this interrogation, they know a lot more. Because I mean, they started off with, hey, what do you know? Can you help us? And now, you know, the heat has definitely turned up in that room.

• 54:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  So now he's saying, I'm going to ask for the dirty word in a second if you don't, you know, behave the way I want you to behave. But he didn't, he did not ask for a lawyer in that moment. And then he was asked, they kind of switched gears, like they went a little softer after this, which pisses me off because in Dwayne's head, he's like, haha, like I have control. I know the lever to push to make you pull back and stop accusing me. So they kind of go a little softer at that point. And they asked him, what would you tell Sonia's family? You know, they're looking for their daughter. They don't know what happened. You were the last person to see her alive, as you keep saying yourself, even though you said you saw her go off with someone else. So technically, you weren't the last person to see her alive, but you keep saying you were, which I think is a slip for Dwayne because he kept saying, I know I'm the last person to see her alive.

• 54:58Derrick Levasseur?

  That, that was a Freudian, because they actually gave him a little bit more of that. You were the last person with her that we know of. And he's like, I was the last person to see her alive. He corrected them.

• 55:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  I know. And then he kept saying it more than once.

• 55:08Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 55:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's like, I would, if I was sitting where you are, I would think I was a piece of shit too, guys.

• 55:12Derrick Levasseur?

  And so you keep saying that there was a person you dropped her off with so that you wouldn't be the last person to see her alive.

• 55:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  So you weren't the last person to see her alive, yes. But he kept saying that. So they're like, okay, you're the last person to see her alive. Sonia's family wants answers. What would you say to them?

• 55:30Speaker 04

  What would you tell her family? They're not, they're not law enforcement. What would you tell her family?

• 55:36Speaker 03

  I would tell, I would tell her family that the last time I seen them, she looked like she was happy and going to get what she wanted.

• 55:43Speaker 02

  And that's what they reported to me, that the last couple of weeks before she left, she was in a really good place.

• 55:50Speaker 03

  She was in a really good place because, and I'll tell you exactly why she was in a really good place. Well, I don't know. She may have had other reasons, but from my point of view, she was in a really good place because I literally helped her change her daily routines to put her in a really good place.

• 56:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  So not only did he kill her, but now he's like, listen, guys, I actually made her life better before she died. Like.

• 56:13Derrick Levasseur?

  What a, what a great guy.

• 56:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  I was changing her daily routines. Now, in fact, it wasn't true. Like Agent McKenzie said, it was not true that Sonia was the happiest she'd ever been leading up to her trip to Florida. Because Agent McKenzie is saying, hey, you know, before, it's, it's proven historically that before people do this thing that Sonia wanted to do, they are happy because they've made the decision and they know what they want. But that wasn't true. Once again, she's lying to him, at least according to Sonia's sisters. Now, Dwayne Hall presented himself as a mentor to Sonia. He said he knew what it was like to live with depression and he'd given Sonia structure in her life, including daily routines to follow and instructions on how to connect with her boyfriend. Like he was giving her advice on how to have sex with her boyfriend, right?

• 56:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  And Sonia's sisters said, yeah, she'd always struggled with depression, but before she went to Florida, they had never seen Sonia more isolated or in need of help. Her sister Gemma said, quote, "When this started to happen, there was a change. When I reflect back, it's easier to see just how much it pulled her down. She would always push people away, which made it harder for us because we wanted to be there. She always struggled with her mental health, but she never disengaged this much. It kind of reminds me a little bit of an abusive relationship you can't escape from. She just couldn't escape from this hold that he had," end quote. And this comes into what I think law enforcement was trying to introduce in the probable cause affidavit, that it wasn't just what happened to her when she got to Florida.

• 57:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  It was in the months and years leading up that he sort of started this almost coercive control over her where she couldn't make a move without him verifying that it was okay. It was kind of this like, you know, BDSM, like dom submissive thing, right? Where he was the dom. And if you know about that community, a lot of couples who engage in this kind of thing, this is what they'll do. It's like, I'm going to go out with a friend. Is that okay, master? Yes, I'll allow it, or no, I won't. I, I need to go to the bathroom. Is that okay? And they do it in like this kind of foreplay way.

• 58:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  But in, in situations like this, it could be used in a very toxic coercive control way where he's making sure that she doesn't mentally feel like she can do anything without checking with him and getting the green light from him. And this is going to happen over the period of, you know, quite an extended period of time. So that's what it kind of seems like they're, they're trying to build this case for.

• 58:47Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I mean, well, there's an escalation here, right? An evolution of time. They, they didn't just meet on motherlist.com and within a week, big plans to come to Florida. This was something that happened over an extended period of time where, like you just said, not to be redundant, it starts off with just a couple of conversations, maybe some talking dirty. And now your definition of talking dirty and theirs is probably different. But it, it went that way. And at, at some point, just like a lot of relationships that start maybe online or over the phone, at some point, you're going to meet in person. And what is the whole relationship predicated on? This dominant whole kind of thing? And yeah, there was a reason why she came over and it was to, it was to kind of bring this

• 59:28Derrick Levasseur?

  relationship to an end as far as what they'd been fantasizing about over the phone, online for, for over a year.

• 59:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  But I think they're even trying to say like, yeah, you can say she came from the UK to America of her own free will, but was it if every move she made was at the direction of him?

• 59:48Derrick Levasseur?

  At your, yeah, your direct direction. And they could even go further and say she was almost.

• 59:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  Brainwashed, yeah, groomed and brainwashed, right? So that's going to play a part in this. So then Dwayne Hall's told by the police that they're going to search the area he'd been parked in on the morning of October 12th, you know? That was the area, he said he was being followed by the blacked out grayish silver color shifting car. And so he pulled over because he was scared, right? They said, we have your phone, we have the coordinates. We're going to search that now, actually. We're sending people there. They are searching it now. And this is when he says he wants to stop talking.

• 1:00:24Speaker 03

  You have my vehicle. You've got my phone records. You've got everything.

• 1:00:28Speaker 04

  And we now have the multiple stories that you've given us, the inconsistencies. So if you, hang on. So if you're not, if you're not going to fill in the gaps and help us complete this story, we're going to go with what we have and we're going to move forward. We're searching the woods and we've already identified multiple spots where we're starting to look. And when we find her. It's gonna look even worse for you.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  Because if it was something that she wanted, which I've already told you, I have documentation that says so, that changes the story.

• 1:00:59Speaker 03

  I don't even know how that would change the story, okay? It ain't, it ain't.

• 1:01:04Speaker 02

  Because intention matters.

• 1:01:05Speaker 03

  And because, because what?

• 1:01:07Speaker 02

  Intention, your intention. You didn't kidnap her.

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:01:13Speaker 03

  So if, so, so if I'm to follow along with everybody's saying here, I think that I can't afford a lawyer, but I think I'm gonna need one at this point.

• 1:01:24Derrick Levasseur?

  There you go. And you know what tip, you know what tipped the scale there? He realized really quickly that they, they're really far in this investigation when the male officer says, "We're already searching the woods."

• 1:01:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:37Derrick Levasseur?

  So that, he's like, "Oh, man, this is, I know it's, if, if he's, if they're searching this area, they're, they're potentially gonna find her, I'm screwed."

• 1:01:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  Even Agent McKenzie, McKenzie can't even pull him back from it. She's like, "Yeah, yeah, I have documentation. She wanted this." And he's like, and she's like, "And that might change things." And he's like, "I don't see how it could."

• 1:01:54Derrick Levasseur?

  No, he knows, he knows he's asked out.

• 1:01:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  "I don't even see how it could." And she's like, "Well, cuz intention matters." And I, I hate this intention matters thing because I always say this to people. It's like, "Well, I hurt you, but I didn't intend to. Your intention matters, but it doesn't negate impact." So what you intended, it doesn't take away what the outcome was. And I think he, on some level, understands that. And that's why I'm saying, "I don't see how it does make a difference or how it changes things," right?

• 1:02:23Derrick Levasseur?

  No.

• 1:02:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  So, after this, Dwayne gets handcuffed, and they told him to sit tight in the interview room while they conducted their searches of a few areas. And I know this is petty, I know this is petty, but I don't care because this guy sucks. And I have to play this clip because at some point, they brought him some like fast food and a soda, and this is what happened.

• 1:02:43Speaker 02

  Of course, at least eat a couple fries or something. Get something in your stomach, okay?

• 1:02:46Speaker 03

  Try.

• 1:02:47Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:02:52Speaker 03

  This is the last time I taste

• 1:02:55Speaker 03

  something.

• 1:02:59Speaker 03

  What is it feeling like? My last meal.

• 1:03:13Speaker 03

  So, you know what?

• 1:03:17Speaker 03

  I don't know exactly how to feel about it.

• 1:03:21Derrick Levasseur?

  I heard the whimpering. I couldn't really make out what he was saying. It's kinda tough in my headphones. Did you, do you know what he said?

• 1:03:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  So at first, he said, "This is the last time I'll taste something." And then he's like.

• 1:03:34Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, you might be tasting something again in prison.

• 1:03:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  You'll taste, you'll taste something, my friend.

• 1:03:38Derrick Levasseur?

  You may not, it may, may not taste as well good as that Wendy's drink.

• 1:03:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  And then he's got like a french fry in his hands with his handcuff, and he's like,

• 1:03:49Derrick Levasseur?

  And, and the only, the only reason we, we enjoy that is because we know what he did. And, you know, it's amazing how this day started for him, going in there, not wanting to shake her hand. I also think that was kind of a, a woman thing as well, to be honest with you. And I don't always go there, but that's what it felt like to me.

• 1:04:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  He clearly doesn't respect women. He tries to manipulate them and.

• 1:04:11Derrick Levasseur?

  And he doesn't respect law enforcement. That's obviously a big part of it. But you go from that, where you think you're the king of the castle, to now you're cleaning the latrine. You know what I mean?

• 1:04:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I love to, I love to see how like confident he was with his arm draped over the couch, like, "Why don't you directly ask me some questions and I'll give you direct answers, bud?" And he's all smug, and then he's like,

• 1:04:34Derrick Levasseur?

  Now he's crying into his, add a little extra salt to those fries.

• 1:04:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:40Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, man.

• 1:04:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  I love it. I love it. So, and it's funny because this is a whole thing. You gotta watch this interview if you, if you guys ever.

• 1:04:48Derrick Levasseur?

  It's a great interview, man. It's a great interview for a lot of reasons.

• 1:04:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's like moving around the room with his food, you know, he's like trying to eat, and he's like, couldn't do it. And I guess.

• 1:04:58Derrick Levasseur?

  He knows he's screwed. He knows he's screwed.

• 1:04:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Which I, I'm sure you're like, stomach's in knots at this point. How could you eat?

• 1:05:04Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, it's over.

• 1:05:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  In his head, he's like, "I'm never gonna have a burger and fries and a crispy Coke again," you know, "but, but I can't eat it cuz I'm so anxious and so nervous." So I guess he was too devastated to eat after crying over a few french fries and his crispy Coke because after a few minutes, Dwayne got up and he timidly knocked on the door, and he asked if he could talk to the detectives again.

• 1:05:25Speaker 04

  What would you like to talk about?

• 1:05:26Speaker 03

  I want to recant basically my entire statement.

• 1:05:30Speaker 04

  You want to recant your entire statement?

• 1:05:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:05:33Speaker 04

  Okay. When we ended the interview, you had mentioned wanting an attorney, so that, that presents a conundrum for us, so.

• 1:05:40Speaker 03

  I can go as far as I did the last time, but I wanna recant everything because I'm many things, but I can't stand being a liar. I can't stand it.

• 1:05:53Speaker 04

  Okay. And we're, we're gonna read your rights again to make sure you totally understand that, and then if you wanna keep talking, we'll keep talking.

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  We'll keep talking up to, up to a certain point, but I wanna recant a big bunch of it, like the entire thing. I want to, I want to start over, and I want to give you guys like, from the beginning, the whole fucking thing from the beginning.

• 1:06:19Derrick Levasseur?

  You know, I, he's found a loophole in the system, Stephanie, in case you didn't know. When you basically, I said in episode one where they give you the rope and you hang yourself, once you realize what you did and you have a chance to replay it, you can just actually go, "Reverse Uno." "I wanna take that all back. Everything I said, I wanna recant it all."

• 1:06:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's like, "You want to recant your entire statement?" He's like, "We can keep some of it, but, no, actually."

• 1:06:44Derrick Levasseur?

  Not the parts that implicate me.

• 1:06:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  Remember when you left the room last time? Like, everything before that. Everything before that goes away. So basically, everything I said, I want to recant it. So the last four hours, we've been talking. Wipe it clean. That, that's gone.

• 1:07:01Derrick Levasseur?

  Can you just delete those tapes, please? But, and then I also like the hand motion, the hand motion of like, "Let's just get rid of that. Let's just, can we start fresh?"

• 1:07:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm surprised he didn't stand up and like walk backwards and be like,

• 1:07:13Derrick Levasseur?

  I, I will say that there is something here because we're joking about it, but I, I don't know where this is gonna go, but I would say, "Okay, let's do it again," and then see what version he gives this time because maybe there's a chance that he gives you something else that he didn't remember giving you in the first one or not giving you in the first one. So you're always willing to listen, but yeah, sorry to tell you, bud, that's all on record, so it ain't going anywhere.

• 1:07:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, they don't tell him that, right? They're basically like, "Well, we have to like read your Miranda rights to you all over again."

• 1:07:42Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 1:07:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  So, cuz you asked for a lawyer. So technically, we can't recant anything. We can't talk to you, but we can if we read your Miranda rights over. My favorite part of the whole thing is he's like, "Listen, I wanna recant it, not because I know I'm screwed, but because I'm a lot of things, but I am not a liar. Even, I know I've lied to you. I've lied to you for hours, and that's really eating at me. So I don't wanna recant it because I know that I'm screwed and you're about to find her. I wanna recant it because I just can't stand being a liar."

• 1:08:10Derrick Levasseur?

  Can't do it?

• 1:08:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  Can't. It's like morally, I can't sit here and eat my Coke and my frickin fries while being a liar. Okay, so they had to read him his Miranda rights again, and if you remember the last time they read him his Miranda rights, he was very cocky. He was not so cocky this time. He sat there quietly and listened like a good boy. He told them that he had met Sonia on Motherless two years prior, and he had started mentoring her because he wanted to make her life better, and he didn't want her to follow through on taking her own life. Dwayne said that in the past year, Sonia had offered to help him because he owed the IRS a lot of money.

• 1:08:45Speaker 03

  She offered to help me with that? And I said, "Yes." And from there, I started mentoring her a little bit further. And she seemed to be getting better. It got, it got, it came along, came along, and eventually, my wife got really, really sick. Really, really fucking sick.

• 1:09:07Speaker 03

  And that's when it started working out, like,

• 1:09:13Speaker 03

  like a cover story. A cover story that was sorry to fall through. But that was the cover story she wanted. That was the cover story she insisted that I stick to. I can stick to that story. I can. It's, it's just, it's, it's no good at this point. You guys already know that's not part of the fucking thing anyway. You've talked to neighbors, you did this, you've done that.

• 1:09:44Speaker 03

  So.

• 1:09:46Speaker 04

  Whose cover story was it? I'm sorry.

• 1:09:48Speaker 03

  Hers. Well, we came up with it together.

• 1:09:51Speaker 04

  So this is Sonia's cover story?

• 1:09:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:53Speaker 04

  And you told us previously?

• 1:09:55Speaker 03

  Yes. And it was what we came up with together to try to, she, she insisted that she did not want to be a burden to me or my wife in the process of getting her needs met. And that's the only way I can put that, okay? And I was very appreciative of that, and I just wanted to help her.

• 1:10:22Speaker 03

  And there, there's still, I'm still going to keep my promise to her that I'd already made to her prior. She didn't, she just didn't wanna be disturbed anymore, basically. It's the only way I can put that. And I'm sorry, I'm gonna keep that promise.

• 1:10:44Speaker 02

  Who didn't wanna be disturbed?

• 1:10:45Speaker 03

  Her.

• 1:10:46Speaker 02

  Sonia didn't wanna be disturbed?

• 1:10:48Speaker 03

  Didn't wanna be disturbed anymore. After, after she came here, she didn't, she wanted that to be it. She didn't wanna be bothered by the trappings of humanity, so to speak, anymore. She wanted, she wanted it to be done. She wanted it to be over.

• 1:11:04Speaker 03

  She didn't wanna be bothered.

• 1:11:07Speaker 03

  That's why I can't tell you anymore after that, okay? That's why I can't tell you.

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  Cuz you're keeping a promise to Sonia?

• 1:11:16Speaker 03

  Keeping a promise.

• 1:11:19Speaker 03

  Failed at some shit in my life.

• 1:11:23Speaker 03

  I don't, I'm not going to fail in that one. I done already failed in my vows to my wife, trying to help somebody.

• 1:11:33Speaker 03

  And now she's probably in the fucking hospital, panic attacker, god knows what. You guys have probably been to my house. The kid's probably fucking losing his mind.

• 1:11:46Speaker 03

  Like I said, I fucked up every fucking thing I've fucked up my entire life, and I am already planning on never being able to go home again.

• 1:11:55Speaker 03

  And even if I do, what do I got to go back home to? I won't have a way to make money. I won't be able to take care of anything.

• 1:12:03Speaker 03

  I'm forever stained because I helped somebody.

• 1:12:08Speaker 03

  We did play a little bit, that's true. We fucked a couple of times, but I only got off once because I was not into it. I couldn't.

• 1:12:19Speaker 03

  I couldn't, no, but think I was betraying my wife every time I tried. And I couldn't, I couldn't, like you said, body will react whether mine wants to or not sometimes. And she didn't do what she was supposed to do.

• 1:12:35Speaker 03

  Who, Sonya, she didn't do what she was supposed to do.

• 1:12:38Speaker 02

  What was she supposed to do?

• 1:12:40Speaker 03

  She was supposed to bring, she wasn't supposed to, she was supposed to bring cash. She wasn't supposed to bring cards. She was supposed to bring cash. Because, it's inescapable, I owed the IRS almost $10,000 for the last two years.

• 1:12:57Speaker 03

  And she volunteered to help me pay that off.

• 1:13:00Speaker 02

  Can you tell me how the plan came about for her to come here?

• 1:13:04Speaker 03

  I wish I could. I really wish I could. And there was a lot of, a lot of talk back and forth. And like I said, this went on for two years, probably. At first, she kind of just kind of like, I, I got the impression that she was kind of joking. And then she told me that a couple of dudes stood her up. And one dude kept robbing her, like digitally, taking the money. And that caused a whole big bunch of problems for her.

• 1:13:38Speaker 02

  Was she trying to pay him to help her die?

• 1:13:42Speaker 03

  I don't know what the story was. I don't. That was, that was on her personal side. I just know that she was telling me that Baby Dan, is how she's describing, Baby Dan, kept stalking her digitally and then charging her account like hordes of money. And it drove her basically into a pretty serious debt. And she finally got it stopped, after I gave her some advice on how to get it stopped. She finally got it to stop. And then shortly after that, that she wanted to meet.

• 1:14:20Speaker 02

  And you were up for it?

• 1:14:22Speaker 03

  I thought it would be okay.

• 1:14:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:25Speaker 03

  I wanted to help.

• 1:14:27Speaker 04

  What, how did Sonya ask you to make this promise? What did she ask you?

• 1:14:31Speaker 03

  She did not want to be found. She did not want to be returned home. She wanted to be gone. Gone, gone.

• 1:14:42Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:14:43Speaker 02

  So you feel like you would be breaking that promise if you told us where she was?

• 1:14:48Speaker 03

  I can't, I can't confirm nor deny that, but I can't break my promise about anything regarding that. I can't tell you where she went.

• 1:15:02Speaker 03

  And I can't tell you anything about it.

• 1:15:06Speaker 03

  I can't, I can't break that promise. I've been breaking fucking promises and being a piece of shit for too long. And that's why I wanted you guys to come back in here. I can't, I can't keep,

• 1:15:20Speaker 03

  can't keep being a piece of shit, but I can't break that promise either.

• 1:15:24Speaker 02

  Well, if we told you that we found her, would you be able to talk about it then? Because you wouldn't be telling us where she was at?

• 1:15:34Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:15:34Speaker 02

  Because we already know?

• 1:15:36Speaker 03

  That, that part would probably, I'm not, I'm not saying that again, but that's where it would most definitely require, um, legal counsel to be present.

• 1:15:51Speaker 02

  To talk about that part?

• 1:15:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:55Derrick Levasseur?

  So first off, a few things I'm taking from that, from that video. Grooming is now referred to as mentoring. That's, that's one thing.

• 1:16:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, absolutely. Yes.

• 1:16:04Derrick Levasseur?

  Mentoring.

• 1:16:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  Actually, mentoring in this community is exactly that, by the way. It's older men taking younger women and like what they call mentor. And it's, it's grooming, basically. Yes.

• 1:16:18Derrick Levasseur?

  So that was one thing. And the next thing, and this is what I was saying before this video played, where you do allow him to talk again because you may get information you didn't get the first time. And I feel like we did. We did find out the issue here. The plan all along was for it to be in cash.

• 1:16:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  Mm-hmm. Exactly.

• 1:16:37Derrick Levasseur?

  That was, I guarantee you, that was the, that was the agreement and that was the impression he was under. So then she shows up in the United States and when there's supposed to be that exchange for cash, she pulls out cards. And I'm sure there was frustration there. And I'm sure he was not happy about it, but he was desperate for the money and he was hoping that-

• 1:16:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  So he tried to get it in any way he could.

• 1:17:00Derrick Levasseur?

  He, he was hoping it would slip through the cracks and this wouldn't be an issue. But that is literally the linchpin which started this whole thing. That's what tied him to this case. Without that credit card transaction, we might not be here right now.

• 1:17:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:15Derrick Levasseur?

  Maybe, but there's also a chance we're not. This really did him in, that credit card transaction.

• 1:17:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, they would have tracked her Airbnb and they probably would have tested the DNA on those things. They probably would have gone to him eventually, but yeah.

• 1:17:28Derrick Levasseur?

  Maybe, but this really did him in and it brought him right into the fold. And, and I think there's a lot of truth in that, that this was supposed to be completely off the books, all cash, and she shows up with a curve ball. And I'm sure he was like, what the are you doing? Like, okay, well, I guess I have to do that. So that was one thing. And then let's get to what's really important in this video, because there's a lot here. He's not directly saying it, but he's indirectly saying it that he wanted to help a person. And so without saying the words, he's admitting that, we all know she wanted to die, I helped her do it. That's a, that's a, a nice way of putting, I killed her. And then he's going to be noble about the fact that even though he's admitting to doing this,

• 1:18:10Derrick Levasseur?

  the one final promise he's not going to break, because he's broken a lot in his life, is he's not going to tell you where she is.

• 1:18:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Cause I've been a piece of shit too much, but I won't do it here.

• 1:18:20Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, yeah. It's, it's all victim mentality.

• 1:18:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  Not the thing that'll actually get me. I can't.

• 1:18:24Derrick Levasseur?

  What he's not realizing in that moment is he's admitting to knowing where she is. So by saying, I can't tell you, is not saying, I don't know. It's saying, I know where she is, but I'm not going to let you know where she is, which lets them know, you did it. So he, it's basically an admission of guilt here. Although it's not direct, it's not what you would, you know, want as a detective, but it's better than most. So really compelling how this story has changed. And now he's starting to let us into the truth. We're still not there, but we're closer than we were during this whole Harold bullshit that he was giving us.

• 1:18:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, exactly. So, uh, we have a lot to kind of unpack here. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back.

• 1:19:10Stephanie Harlowe?

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• 1:19:18Stephanie Harlowe?

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• 1:19:50Stephanie Harlowe?

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• 1:21:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right. So first of all, you know, I want to talk about that last clip for a second because we've seen a lot of stuff over the years as we've covered these cases. But the level of victimization that Dwayne Hall is able to cling on to in the light of what he had done, it's truly mind blowing to me. All he did was help someone, right? And how his whole life is going to be over because of Sonia. And he's betrayed his wife because of Sonia. And this is all just because he wanted to help Sonia. And by the way, Sonia didn't want him connected to any of this, which is why they together had come up with the Harold cover story. But she couldn't even do that right because she was supposed to have brought cash with her to Florida, but she didn't keep her word. And it's all because of Sonia. But don't worry, he doesn't want to be a piece of shit anymore. So he's going to keep his word to Sonia, even though he's blaming her for everything

• 1:22:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  and should be very angry at her because this is all her fault, according to him. And he's not going to tell anyone where her body is because, you know, she, she didn't do what she said she was going to do. But he's still going to do what he promised that he would do, right? He's better than Sonia. That's what he's, he's, he's posing to them. Secondly, law enforcement didn't need Dwayne Hall to tell them where Sonia was at this point because they had tracked his cell phone location to that area that he was claiming he was hiding from the car on the morning of Sunday, October 12th, a wooded area just south of Southwest Highway 484 and east of Marion Oaks Boulevard. So this is actually pretty close to where Dwayne Hall lives in Ocala. So he wasn't in Gainesville, nothing like that.

• 1:23:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  So Marion County Sheriff's Office Field Force members located an area of disturbed soil that was lighter in color than the soil around it. Cadaver dogs were brought in and they alerted on the area of disturbed ground where they ultimately found the remains of Sonia Exelby in a shallow grave. While they were digging, they also found a label to a shovel in the dirt. And this label matched the same shovel that Dwayne Hall had purchased at Walmart, the same shovel that was located in his garage and forensically processed due to a reddish brown staining seen on the handle of the shovel that tested positive for blood. And DNA results from the shovel handle showed two profiles on that handle. One was Sonia Exelby and one was Dwayne Hall.

• 1:23:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  So at that point, the remains of Sonia were transported for autopsy and Dwayne Hall was arrested for credit card fraud and unlawful use of a two-way communication. And Dwayne was very confused by this.

• 1:24:08Speaker 02

  I want to let you know that I am arresting you for the credit card fraud, right? Once you get out there, you get an attorney and you want to have a conversation with me about the rest of what happened, feel free to reach out to me, okay?

• 1:24:22Speaker 03

  I don't really understand what's going on right now.

• 1:24:25Speaker 02

  You're being placed under arrest for credit card fraud, for using Sonia's cards, okay?

• 1:24:32Speaker 03

  I mean, okay, I'm a little confused about literally everything else, though. I feel like that it's, I don't know. I feel weird about the whole thing. It's just a few things.

• 1:24:47Speaker 02

  I know it's, I know it's a lot. That's why I said process, think about it.

• 1:24:50Speaker 03

  And some things ain't adding up there. You're charging me for credit card fraud?

• 1:24:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:58Speaker 03

  More charges coming, right?

• 1:25:02Speaker 02

  I don't know. I just tell you like right now, you're getting charged with credit card fraud.

• 1:25:08Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:25:09Speaker 02

  Do you expect more charges coming? Did you expect something different?

• 1:25:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:16Speaker 03

  But we're not going to go there.

• 1:25:20Speaker 02

  I mean, is there something you want me to charge you with?

• 1:25:22Speaker 03

  You impounded me, you impounded my vehicle. You're, I have no idea what's going on with that. If I'm even going to get that back, my wife is for all I know stranded somewhere. Okay, I mean, and credit card fraud? Okay.

• 1:25:37Speaker 02

  I mean, if you want something else, let me know. What do you want me to charge you with?

• 1:25:41Speaker 03

  Charge me with gold. Okay.

• 1:25:44Speaker 02

  All right. You're going to be going with this deputy.

• 1:25:46Speaker 03

  Let's do whatever we're doing then.

• 1:25:48Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:25:49Derrick Levasseur?

  Guy's so dumb. He's so dumb. Yeah, they're charging him with credit card fraud because that's the charge they have the admission of guilt to at that moment. So they charge him to hold him. He's not leaving.

• 1:25:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, they're saying, she said to him, like, once you get out after this credit, you know, if you want to get a lawyer and you want to talk to us about this other stuff, then, and he's like,

• 1:26:07Derrick Levasseur?

  What? Let me leave? I mean, he's like, you're not charging me with killing her?

• 1:26:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:14Derrick Levasseur?

  So, so she's playing games with him. It's great. It's great.

• 1:26:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  And he goes right back into, as soon as he feels like he has a little power, he's like, well, you've impounded my car. My wife's stranded. Now he's the victim again, right?

• 1:26:23Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, he's like, oh, maybe I should play this up, you know? But the fact I've, I've never seen that before where he's basically they're like,

• 1:26:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  You're, you're free to go.

• 1:26:32Derrick Levasseur?

  Are you, this has got to be a trick, right? Like, as soon as I step out the door, there's going to be seven sheriffs there waiting to arrest me. No, I mean, she knows, he knows, you know, it's, it's just a cat and mouse game at this point. But that was, that's a funny interaction where you would think he would just play into it. Go, okay, yeah, that's what I figured. Credit card fraud. That's the worst I did here. So sure. But he's like, wait, that's it? And she's like, are you expecting more? He's like, yeah.

• 1:26:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, I think she's, she's also trying to be like, I told you that, you know, you were just trying to help someone. I told you that might change the situation, you know, like,

• 1:27:06Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, credit card fraud over $1,000 is a felony. So he's not going to, my understanding, I mean, it could be different. He's not going to get released. He's not going to get released right away.

• 1:27:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  They're going to arrest him, process him, right? And then, yeah, put him in front of a judge and see if he gets bail. Yeah. So, but theoretically, if he does all that, he's going to be out, right? So, I mean, obviously, like you said, everyone knew that Dwayne Hall had murdered Sonia, but they still had to identify her remains because they hadn't been able to do that yet. I mean, once again, we all know what we're dealing with here. We know with Sonia, but legally they have to identify her remains. And they still had to investigate and gather evidence to build the case that they knew was there. And Dwayne made it very easy for them to do that. The medical examiner confirmed that Sonia had died from four stab wounds to her torso. Two wounds on the left side of her chest, which were four to six inches deep,

• 1:27:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  and two to the left side of her back, which were between five and seven inches deep. No murder weapon was found at the Airbnb or at the location where Sonia's body was found buried. But luckily, Dwayne Hall was able to call his wife Ginger from jail. And during a phone call with Ginger on October 27th, Dwayne talked to her about a friend of his that he called Rick. And Dwayne told Ginger that Rick would be sending her a package in six months. So I did my research. I don't mind calling this guy out at all. Rick is Richard Snyder, and he lived in Ohio, the same place that both Dwayne Hall and Ginger Stein were from. The probable cause affidavit for Dwayne Hall states that Rick and Dwayne communicated regularly with each other on Facebook.

• 1:28:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  And Ginger told the police that she had also been communicating with Rick on Facebook as well. So the area of Ohio where Rick lives is blackened out in the affidavit. But you know, I did my research and from the research I've done, Ginger, Dwayne and Rick were all from that same county, that same area of Ohio. In fact, that is where Ginger met Dwayne so many years ago when she was just a 16-year-old riding her bike through the neighborhood.

• 1:29:10Speaker 05

  If you would like to tell us about how you and Dwayne met, that sounds like a fine place to start.

• 1:29:16Speaker 06

  Well, that was about 30 years ago. We met when I was 16 years old.

• 1:29:24Speaker 05

  Oh my gosh, you were 16. How old was he?

• 1:29:26Speaker 06

  I think, uh, he's 10 years older than me, so he would have been 26.

• 1:29:31Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:29:31Speaker 06

  And then we just, we just chit chatted for the first years. And then as soon, as soon as I turned 18, actually, I think 17, we started dating. And we've been together, sort of, off and on ever since.

• 1:29:44Speaker 05

  Um, how, where did you meet him? I mean, he was 26 and you were in high school. Where was, where'd you meet him at?

• 1:29:50Speaker 06

  Just on a weekend, I was riding my bike and I just happened to ride past his house. And he lived a couple of blocks down the street from me. And he just saw me and said, hey, and I said, hey, and just kind of went from there.

• 1:30:04Speaker 05

  Do you want to address anything about your marriage? Because you guys knew each other for a long time and then you weren't, and then you didn't get married until recently, right?

• 1:30:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, I didn't, I never really believed in the legality of marriage. He, he wanted to for forever and I, I just see it as a piece of paper.

• 1:30:27Speaker 06

  I think he and I, in my opinion, he and I were married, have been married for twenty some, twenty some years. I mean, I considered us married even before we got the license.

• 1:30:38Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. So to summarize that video in a couple of words, Dwayne's been a sicko for a very long time.

• 1:30:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, she's a sixteen year old, a sixteen year old kid riding her bike. And he's a twenty six year old man. And she's like, as soon as I turned seventeen, we started dating.

• 1:30:51Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I want to go back to what you were saying before the video. Because it was a question that I had posed earlier and you pushed back on it. And, and now it makes more sense because we know, we know the manner of death, right? She was stabbed to death. And there's not a lot of blood in that room. But I believe, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, because there's a lot of information that we have and dates and times and all that, but you had said something about a blue tarp.

• 1:31:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Bought a tarp after. He bought a tarp, uh, Sunday morning. Remember when he was at Lowe's and then there was someone in his passenger seat?

• 1:31:25Derrick Levasseur?

  So my question is this, though. He bought the tarp after he checked out of the room.

• 1:31:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  Right.

• 1:31:30Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, so that would make sense then. Based on what we have right now, even though it's, it's odd to think this because I, I didn't initially, you would think that would be the crime scene would be the Airbnb, but it's looking more and more like there's a secondary crime scene. Maybe it's where she was found, but they spent some time together, they role played in that room, had sex multiple times. And then after they were done and they had completed that part of it, she was transported to a secondary location and, and killed there. That's, that's what makes, you know, critical thinking, reasonable deduction. There could be variables we're not aware of, but that's what it feels like at this point.

• 1:32:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, they were, they, yes, they were in the, I want to be very clear. They didn't just role play and have sex. She was beaten. You could see in the videos, her face is bruised, her chest is bruised.

• 1:32:20Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. But that could be, and I'm not trying to be insensitive, but that could be, I'm not, I'm not making it okay, but that could be part of quote unquote, the role playing.

• 1:32:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. According to what she said in the video, he was like, is this what you wanted done to you? And she was like, yeah, I guess technically, but she doesn't seem happy about it or as if that's what she wants.

• 1:32:37Derrick Levasseur?

  I am going to watch that video, by the way, whether we play it or not, I am going to watch it just to get my own opinion. And obviously everyone can interpret it differently, but the, I mean, again, I'm not trying to be insensitive about what happened in that room. It's unacceptable, but in the eyes of what we're looking at here, maybe the abuse was part of the role playing. Doesn't make it okay. I'm not saying that in any way, shape or form. Uh, I'm just incorporating that into it, but yeah, it's looking more and more four stab wounds in the chest. I would expect to see a significant,

• 1:33:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:06Derrick Levasseur?

  chest and back. I would, I would expect to see a significant amount of blood and yet we don't have it. So maybe there was something else purchased that we don't have a record of, some other tarp or plastic that we're unaware of, but that doesn't align with someone being seen inside the vehicle.

• 1:33:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  Right. If that someone was Sonia, right?

• 1:33:27Derrick Levasseur?

  If it was Sonia, maybe someone else showed up, but based on what we have, I'm only going off the evidence so far. It doesn't appear that we have anyone else. It doesn't mean that there wasn't, but just what we know, it seems like it was the two of them. And that would lead me to believe that the second person in that vehicle would in fact be Sonia. When you couple that with a lack of blood evidence inside that room.

• 1:33:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. So, but here's the thing, it seems like Ginger is more in the loop than she would like to make it appear that she is. And once again, I go back, she met him when she's sixteen. Is it very possible that Ginger also was groomed?

• 1:34:05Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, no doubt.

• 1:34:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  By Dwayne Hall?

• 1:34:07Derrick Levasseur?

  No doubt.

• 1:34:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  Absolutely. We've seen this happen with killer couples before. Okay. But I want to also say, if she knew, took part, allowed it to happen, to me, that is not an excuse and I don't care.

• 1:34:20Derrick Levasseur?

  I, I couldn't agree more. It could be, I don't know how this is going to play out. I, I'm final, final part of this episode, I may feel differently. There's a spectrum, right? It could be as simple as he was allowed to be in a quote unquote, open relationship where she didn't know the specifics of what he was doing and what it actually involved. Or it could be the other end of the spectrum, which you're alluding to that she was heavily involved in the entire process and knew exactly what he was doing. I, I, I'm oblivious to that at this point, and maybe you're going to shed some light on that, but it could be one of the other, but I think absolutely, when I say she was groomed, she was groomed to believe that, that Dwayne had the right to go out and sleep with other people while she stayed at home.

• 1:35:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  Right. And yeah, she does say something to that effect, but now you have Dwayne telling her, hey, my friend Rick is sending you a package. And when you find out what's in, when you find out what's in that package, that matters. Okay. So the affidavit says that on October 31st, uh, Agent McKenzie and Detective Miller interviewed a person who is referred to as a source who had information about Dwayne Hall. The affidavit says that this source provided information that was credible and not known to the public. Dwayne Hall told this source, who is a man, that he had killed a woman in her thirties from the UK and he had helped her die because she couldn't do it herself. Hall said he was confident that he would get away with it because the police only had cell phone records placing him at the scene.

• 1:35:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  The police did not know where she had died and they did not have the weapon.

• 1:35:52Derrick Levasseur?

  Want to take a guess at who that source is?

• 1:35:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't know. It's not Rick.

• 1:35:56Derrick Levasseur?

  You don't think so?

• 1:35:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's not. Okay.

• 1:35:58Derrick Levasseur?

  Cause he's another person they're mentioning in here?

• 1:35:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Cause he's another person. So the source said that he had asked Dwayne if Dwayne had shot this woman and Dwayne said, no. He also said he had not put a bag over her head. So this led the source to believe that the woman had been stabbed. Dwayne also told the source that it had been harder to do than he thought. And he had a contingency plan in place in case the police began to close in on him as a suspect. Dwayne said he had a friend who would help him if he needed it, but he did not give the source that friend's name. That friend is Rick. So on the same day, October 31st, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement looked at Facebook messages between Dwayne Hall and Rick Snyder, his friend in Ohio. On the evening of October 12th, Rick had messaged Dwayne at 10:46 PM asking, how's life?

• 1:36:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  And according to the probable cause affidavit, the two messaged back and forth about life. But then on October 13th, after Dwayne got the call from Florida Department of Law Enforcement Agent Calvin Lee, asking about Sonia's financial transactions, Dwayne messaged Rick Snyder again. He said he needed Rick's address again, and he wanted to know the correct spelling of Rick's last name. And then he said his phone might be tapped, stating, quote, might be a big storm coming for me, end quote. After that, there were two messages that had been deleted by Rick Snyder, followed by another message from Dwayne Hall that stated, quote, delete that, end quote. So basically, some messages were exchanged. Then Dwayne said, delete that. And on Facebook Messenger, you can delete the messages and then it'll just say message has been deleted. Okay?

• 1:37:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  So the following day, October 14th, Dwayne Hall messaged Rick Snyder on Facebook again, telling him, quote, we'll need this back in six months if this storm passes over with no lingering fallout. Please, for the love of shadows, don't lose this box. There's no need to even open it. There are very precious and valuable personal items, end quote. Dwayne had sent a picture in this message thread along with this message, but that picture was also deleted. So Rick Snyder replied back to Dwayne, quote, should I bury it in the yard? LOL, I'm joking. I'll keep your stuff safe, end quote. Dwayne wrote back, quote, thanks, man. I appreciate it. Just make sure you message Ginger

• 1:38:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  and ask her about the return in six months, just in case this storm is as bad as expected, end quote. So Rick asked Dwayne if this was about child support and Dwayne replied that he couldn't say. Rick's reply to this was, quote, this is why you shouldn't do dirty by yourself. Always bring your guard badger, end quote. Dwayne Hall replied, quote, LOL, right? I don't think the guard badger would have done any good in this instance, end quote. Rick Snyder wrote back, quote, well, if I think it's stupid, you know, it must be insanely stupid, end quote. Dwayne Hall wrote back simply, yep. And then Rick Snyder said, quote, admit it. We get caught way less when I'm with you.

• 1:38:56Derrick Levasseur?

  There you go.

• 1:38:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  End quote.

• 1:38:58Derrick Levasseur?

  There you go.

• 1:38:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay.

• 1:38:59Derrick Levasseur?

  Self-explanatory. This is not, this is not their first, uh, experience with this. And it seems like it's a network. It seems like it's a ring and there have been other occasions where Dwayne and Rick have more than likely, allegedly, um, done these types of things together. But it does sound too also that there's an admission that there isn't another party that was involved in this one. And so that is even more likely that it was Sonia in that vehicle.

• 1:39:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, or Dwayne's just not telling Rick, right? Maybe there's like some jealousy. I don't know.

• 1:39:32Derrick Levasseur?

  Listen, this is going to be a closed circle. And, and listen, the fact that he's even willing to send this box to Rick tells you how much he trusts him. They, and you only get this level of trust if it's a sibling or if you both have

• 1:39:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  A partner in crime.

• 1:39:48Derrick Levasseur?

  dirt on each other. You know where the bodies are buried, literally and figuratively. So Rick and, and Dwayne are very close. Now, as far as the box, can I speculate? You're probably going to tell us what's in it, but I just want to guess for the fun of it.

• 1:40:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  Uh, sure.

• 1:40:02Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't think these are pieces of evidence that are linked to the case. I think they're personal belongings that have value that, that Dwayne is concerned about being seized if he's arrested. That's my guess.

• 1:40:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right. Well, let's see.

• 1:40:14Derrick Levasseur?

  We'll see.

• 1:40:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  So, um, I was kind of like, what does this term guard badger mean?

• 1:40:19Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I didn't, I didn't know what that was. I just, I thought it was like basically someone, you know, a lookout, a lookout outside the, the facility or the location.

• 1:40:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  I looked into it and there is an internet joke. It's pretty obscure, but people talk about owning honey badgers. And then they're like, hey, I have a honey badger. Like I feel bad for anyone who tries to mess with me or break into my house because my guard badger will take care of that intruder or that attacker easily. So honey badgers, as we know, are legendary for being fierce, fearless, protective.

• 1:40:46Derrick Levasseur?

  They're, they're feisty. I almost took it as this was a pet name that Dwayne had for Rick. And he probably in person referred to him as his guard badger who was out there. If they, if the shit hit the fan, he had his boy Rick to, to guard him and actually take on the fight. And so I felt like he was talking in like the third person, like this is why you bring your guard badger with you. And Rick's like, yeah, admit it. When I'm with you, way less problems.

• 1:41:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  We get caught way less. And I think it's, it's, it's a lookout, like you said.

• 1:41:16Derrick Levasseur?

  It's a lookout. I think that's what he's basically saying, that his bodyguard.

• 1:41:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  When we've done this before, I've had a lookout, make sure you don't leave loose ends, make sure you're not leaving stuff.

• 1:41:24Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes.

• 1:41:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  You know, a trusted accomplice.

• 1:41:26Derrick Levasseur?

  Consigliere. Am I saying that right? Consigliere?

• 1:41:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, your trusted accomplice, somebody that.

• 1:41:31Derrick Levasseur?

  How do you say it in Italian? It's, it's, you know?

• 1:41:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  Consigliere.

• 1:41:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I could have done that.

• 1:41:41Derrick Levasseur?

  But no, yeah, that's, that's, that's his, this is, this is his right-hand man, for sure.

• 1:41:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's his right-hand man, yeah.

• 1:41:46Derrick Levasseur?

  And so I think the guard badger is not like an item or another thing that he would, I think he's referring to Rick.

• 1:41:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  Now, during the investigation, the police found out that Dwayne Hall had mailed a package that weighed one pound and 11 ounces from Ocala, Florida to Rick Snyder in Ohio. The package was scheduled to be delivered on October 16th and Dwayne had reported it to UPS as being worth $500. So on October 16th, at 6:10 PM, Rick sent Dwayne a message on Facebook asking him to check what time his stuff was supposed to arrive. Because Rick had to go to the grocery store and he didn't want to miss the UPS guy. So Rick sent another message to Dwayne because Dwayne responded back and he was like, it should be there today. Like, why are you asking? You know, and Rick said to Dwayne, quote, "You're jumpy. Why you like long-tailed cat in room full of rocking chairs?" End quote.

• 1:42:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  And Dwayne Hall replied, quote, "Because that box contains two of my most prized possessions and I really don't trust the mail system. UPS is usually okay, though," end quote. After this, Dwayne Hall sent another message to Rick, quote, "I feel strangely naked without them." And Rick responded, quote, "I get it. So how do I help you unf** yourself out of whatever mess you are in?" End quote. Dwayne Hall wrote back, quote, "I don't know because I don't know what kind of mess it is yet. For now, just hold on to the box. If anybody asks about the box that isn't ginger, it doesn't exist." End quote. Rick Snyder tells him, "Okay," and then Dwayne Hall writes, quote, "Thanks, man. I always knew I could count on you." End quote.

• 1:43:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  Later that evening, Rick Snyder messaged Dwayne again. He told him he got the box. He said it looked like a Walmart order and he sent an image to Dwayne that was later deleted. And Dwayne Hall said, quote, "LOL. I know best way to secretly send something." End quote. Rick asked Dwayne if he should open the box or no, and Dwayne said, quote, "You can, just don't lose or misplace the contents. Oh, and beware of the sterling silver. Probably a good pound of that is the silver." End quote.

• 1:43:44Derrick Levasseur?

  Precious metals. There you go.

• 1:43:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  So Rick told Dwayne that he wasn't going to open it and Dwayne said, "LOL, okay." Of course, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement enlisted the help of the Washington County Sheriff's Office in Ohio and paid a visit to Richard Snyder with a search warrant. And Snyder confirmed that a package from Hall had been delivered on October 16th. And apparently, he had opened the box because he told the police that inside, he'd found an engraved knife and a sheath along with a bracelet. So, we have to talk about this stuff. This is very important. But before we do, I want to take our last break and we'll be right back.

• 1:44:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  This episode is brought to you by Talkiatory. And I think a lot of people knows what it feels like to hit a point where they're going through something. You know, anxiety, depression, ADHD, all of the above. Whatever you're dealing with becomes more than just a rough patch and there's a point where you realize, I need a little extra help here.

• 1:44:44Derrick Levasseur?

  Absolutely. And when that happens, therapy can be helpful, but it may not be the whole answer for everyone, right? And sometimes you need psychiatric care, someone who can evaluate what's going on, diagnose mental health conditions and prescribe medication if it's appropriate.

• 1:44:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Exactly. And that is where Talkiatory comes in. Talkiatory is 100% online psychiatry practice that provides comprehensive evaluations, diagnoses and ongoing medication management for conditions like ADHD, anxiety, depression and much more.

• 1:45:15Derrick Levasseur?

  And that distinction matters, right? Talkiatory is psychiatry, not a therapy-only platform. You're meeting with a medical provider who can diagnose mental health conditions. And like I just said, if you need medication, they can prescribe it.

• 1:45:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  And this is a big deal because I don't know if anybody's ever tried, but finding, much less just finding a therapist is going to take forever. And it's hard to find someone like who's in your network or who has an available appointment. When something like this is going on, you need help right away. You don't have time. It's even harder to find a psychiatrist who has time to see you right away or is in your network. You're on a waitlist, out of network costs, all of it. So you can complete a short online assessment with Talkiatory. You can get matched with clinicians who fit your needs and schedule your visit, get this, in days. And their 800-plus clinicians accept major insurers. So you can use your already existing insurance instead of paying monthly subscriptions or out of network costs. It's perfect. I also like that you can continue with the same provider.

• 1:46:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  Because mental health care should not feel like starting over from the pilot episode every time. You shouldn't have to talk to someone new about this stuff.

• 1:46:19Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. You can meet with a licensed psychiatrist who takes the time to understand what's actually going on, build a personalized treatment plan just for you and support you over time with consistent, evidence-based care. Your treatment can evolve with you instead of feeling like a one-and-done appointment, which I think that is 90% of the battle. People want to feel like they're being heard.

• 1:46:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  Especially if you're talking about something that's personal and hard. Like, you don't want to see somebody new every time and explain it all over again. And more than 300,000 people have already found high-quality psychiatric care through Talkiatory. So, head to talkiatory.com/crimeweekly to complete the short assessment and get matched with an in-network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. That's T-A-L-K-I-A-T-R-Y.com/crimeweekly to get matched in minutes. Talkiatory.com/crimeweekly.

• 1:47:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right, we're back. So, this knife that Dwayne Hall had sent Richard Snyder, it appears that Snyder had actually purchased the knife for Dwayne as a gift. And he'd even had it engraved for him with a special inside joke that they shared. So it was a seven-inch Black Cold Steel Recon Tonto Knife engineered from the ground up for maximum high-penetration stabbing and piercing.

• 1:47:43Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep. It's like a military weapon.

• 1:47:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. That's, that's basically what it's meant for. Piercing, stabbing, things like that. So, the blade of the knife was engraved with the words, "Dork, wharf, pointy end goes in the other guy." And according to Rick Snyder, this was a joke. It was him making fun of Dwayne Hall, who used the name Dark Wolf online. Okay? We're going to talk about this whole Dark Wolf and this, this whole thing that, that Dwayne Hall had online and in this weird sort of, I guess, religion or belief system that he followed. But anyways, Rick Snyder told the police that he had burned the packaging that it was sent in. And then he sewed the knife, the sheath and the bracelet into a small fabric bag

• 1:48:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  before hiding the bag in a drawer in his bedroom. The items were obviously sent to the FDLE Jacksonville Lab for processing and they found Sonia's blood on Dwayne Hall's knife. Okay? So, this was the murder weapon.

• 1:48:43Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I actually gave Dwayne too much credit. He is a dumbass. Like, he really is. He, and I don't know, you can't teach this level of stupidity. I thought for sure, there are precious metals in there apparently, which makes sense. It's his life savings. Didn't really believe in the banks and he couldn't because the IRS was out looking for him. So he, he used precious metals to kind of create some savings. But it does appear that he sent the murder weapon to his buddy, which again, tells us two things. One, Rick knows a lot more than people may think.

• 1:49:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  And he's willing to be an accomplice to this sort of stuff. He's like sewing it into a bag.

• 1:49:21Derrick Levasseur?

  He's willing to be, tie himself into it. And he knew what the knife was. And it also says that this is more than likely something Dwayne has done multiple times and probably used this knife in those other circumstances. This is his prized possession.

• 1:49:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  I feel naked without it. Yep.

• 1:49:38Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep. And so, this is probably his calling card, if you will. Like, when he kills these people, he's using this knife. So, yeah, so I take it back. I'm, I was really wrong. Dwayne is actually that stupid.

• 1:49:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. And it's like, if you're telling Rick to delete certain messages and pictures, why not delete the whole conversation where you're telling him you're sending him something that is affiliated with this storm that's about to hit while the, while the agents are calling you? Like, what are you talking about here?

• 1:50:06Derrick Levasseur?

  Stephanie, here's a better idea. Throw the knife in the river.

• 1:50:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, he loves that knife.

• 1:50:11Derrick Levasseur?

  That's my point. He's really, really dumb.

• 1:50:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  He loves that knife. He's really attached.

• 1:50:15Derrick Levasseur?

  He's willing to risk it all for this knife.

• 1:50:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  But if you're willing to risk it all for the knife, at least have Rick delete all the messages of you corresponding about sending him something.

• 1:50:23Derrick Levasseur?

  No, it's, it's.

• 1:50:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  You dumbass.

• 1:50:25Derrick Levasseur?

  He's, yeah, he's really bad at this.

• 1:50:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  Now, the silver bracelet, I still don't know whose it was. Was it Sonia's? Was it Dwayne's? Because it had three DNA profiles on it. It had Dwayne Hall's DNA profile on it, but also Sonia's and someone else who hasn't been identified at this time, at least in publicly available information. But Richard Snyder did admit to handling the bracelet when he was trying to hide it.

• 1:50:47Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, that's going to be easy to figure out because family members of Sonia's will be able to identify if it was hers.

• 1:50:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. So it could be Rick Snyder's DNA, that third profile on the bracelet. Or it could be somebody Sonia knew. I don't know.

• 1:50:59Derrick Levasseur?

  Could be Ginger's.

• 1:51:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't know. It could be Ginger's, man. Listen, the way they're talking, like, only talk to Ginger about this.

• 1:51:05Derrick Levasseur?

  And this is another thing that's concerning for Ginger.

• 1:51:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  Is Ginger in the loop?

• 1:51:08Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, I mean, if it were just precious metals, then you could argue that she was aware of this and he could talk to her about it because it was their life savings. But when you start talking about a murder weapon.

• 1:51:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  This girl died and I'm sending my knife to my friend and he's going to send it back to you in six months.

• 1:51:25Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. And so when she opens the box, for her not to have questions about that knife, that would mean that she knows about it.

• 1:51:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or to already know what it was. Yeah, exactly.

• 1:51:33Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. I mean, so, optically does not look good for her at all. Now, just to be fair. It could be a hunting knife as well, where in Ginger's mind, if she's not in on it, right, just to cover our bases, there are people out there who have knives or guns that are like their prized possession. So Ginger, that may be all she knows about this knife. Doesn't automatically mean that she knows he's using it to kill people. And I just want to give her that grace, unless you tell me something else.

• 1:52:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  By the time six months goes by, and he's been arrested for the murder of a girl, and then you get a knife in the, in the mail, that he's sent to a friend when he was being looked at for the murder of this girl.

• 1:52:11Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, you would think two and two.

• 1:52:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's not, it's not just a hunting knife. Okay. Right?

• 1:52:15Derrick Levasseur?

  That's, I, I agree with you. I agree with you. But if this woman had been groomed since she was 16 years old, she may be impressionable. I'll just put it that way. I'm trying to be.

• 1:52:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  Impressionable. Yeah, sure. But here's the thing. Let me ask you, if she eventually comes to understand that that knife was used to kill someone, and she defends him and says, well, he was just trying to help her, would you say the same thing?

• 1:52:38Derrick Levasseur?

  So here's the thing, I don't agree with that assessment, but we're talking about a, a young girl at 16 years old that was groomed by this man for 20 years. So it's not the same as you and I.

• 1:52:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  She's not a young girl anymore. So like, yes, there's an aspect of like, you were also a victim. And then there's an aspect of.

• 1:52:56Derrick Levasseur?

  Of common sense.

• 1:52:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  How, how much at this point? Because then we could, we could start using that excuse for everybody.

• 1:53:02Derrick Levasseur?

  I agree with you. It's a slippery slope.

• 1:53:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  Like, uh, remember Elizabeth Smart, right? Elizabeth Smart and, and that whole thing. Like that was, did we feel any less, did we feel bad for Wanda Barzy? Were we like, oh, she's not complicit in this at all?

• 1:53:16Derrick Levasseur?

  No, you're fair. It's fair. There are different variables here. But at minimum, I do agree with you from the perspective of right and wrong. If the person that's been grooming you is killing people, you should have known that that was not okay.

• 1:53:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  And that's the point where, okay, someone's been grooming me. But now I know that not only is he luring young women here to have sex with them, which you should have a problem with as his partner, but he's, he killed her. And then, and, and then now that's where the grooming should kind of break to a point where you're like.

• 1:53:47Derrick Levasseur?

  I gotta get out of here. I could be next.

• 1:53:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. Or like, this isn't right, you know?

• 1:53:52Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, it, it does sound like there's two people who know Dwayne, like really know Dwayne.

• 1:53:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  And Ginger's one of them.

• 1:54:00Derrick Levasseur?

  Ginger would be one of them.

• 1:54:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. It's two people that we know of.

• 1:54:03Derrick Levasseur?

  But here's, here's another case, Long Island Serial Killer. I'm still on the fence about that one with his wife. You know, that he was killing these women inside the home. So I, I don't know. She's never been charged with anything. So I guess the evidence doesn't support her having an understanding. But there are a lot of people who feel it would be impossible for her not to know what was going on.

• 1:54:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. But do you have messages where Long Island Serial Killer is talking to his friend and being like, I'm sending you evidence of my murder. Send it to my wife. She's the only one I trust.

• 1:54:33Derrick Levasseur?

  There are witnesses apparently who say there were women taken to that house with, with Rex Schurman and his wife. And the woman was seen running out of the house that they were both inside of, and that he went off. There are things there that make me, that leave me with questions.

• 1:54:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  Have any victims who have survived had anything to say about the wife? Like that she was complicit or involved in any way?

• 1:54:55Derrick Levasseur?

  Doesn't sound like it. There's been no charges against her. So she is, she is innocent until otherwise said. But yeah, with this whole situation, it does seem like Ginger is in on a lot more than, than, than you would like to hear for someone who would be innocent in the whole thing.

• 1:55:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  And don't tell me that you weren't aware of his extreme sexual fantasies when it came to like violence.

• 1:55:17Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm with you there.

• 1:55:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  And aggression.

• 1:55:18Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm with you there.

• 1:55:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  You knew that because you were his partner and have been having sex with him since you were 17 years old. And that's the reason he went after a younger girl, because then he could pose these things as normal because she wouldn't know better. So I think from the very beginning, Ginger knew about his proclivities when it came to BDSM and these violent sexual fantasies and participated in them, which is fine if she's a consenting adult. But when you have somebody who's maybe not so consenting, and you're still making excuses for your husband's behavior, this is where I have a problem.

• 1:55:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I'm, I'm with you.

• 1:55:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  So during his police interview, Dwayne Hall refused to tell the police where Sonia's body was. But he also was asked about the whereabouts of Sonia's clothes or personal belongings, since those things had not been found in the Airbnb. And according to his phone records, after being at the spot where Sonia's body was found, Dwayne Hall had driven to Gainesville where he made a purchase at a Circle K. On surveillance video, he was seen throwing something from the back of his vehicle onto the ground. And he also threw multiple items into a garbage can from the passenger side of his vehicle. He then drove to Kohl's in Gainesville. And according to Dwayne, he had taken Sonia's belongings to a donation bin that was green and white. And of course, he makes this sound like he's

• 1:56:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  a good person. He was like, well, you know, she didn't need them anymore. So I thought they could go to a good, good use by somebody who could use them because she's not alive anymore. He said, he thought donating them was the good and charitable thing to do. Now, they did recover some of those items, as well as messages that Sonia attempted to send a friend while she was apparently trapped in Riddick, Florida with Dwayne Hall. We're going to talk about all of that and more, including, once again, this kind of expansion onto what was Dwayne Hall into? Because he uses this pseudonym online, Dark Wolf. And he had seemed he had sort of a, a strong belief. Because remember, he texted his friend Rick, and he's like, for the love of shadows, right? For the love of

• 1:57:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  shadows. They were into some weird, like Anubis religion thing, like the Egyptian god of death thing. And it wasn't just him, it was some of his friends too. So now we have this kind of deeper layer where it's not just a bunch of creepy men luring women to them so that they can kill them. It's, there's some like death cult aspect to it that they believe that, and that's why the specific knife was so important, because it was involved in like that ritualistic kind of, I don't know, behavior that they were doing. And then we're going to talk about also the fact that there's a lot of cases that sort of kind

• 1:58:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  of match Sonia's in, in that area of Florida. And then also, what, we gotta look at Ohio too, right? Because that's where Rick Snyder and Ginger and Dwayne were from. And we also have to look at what Ginger's saying now about Dwayne, after everything has come out and she knows what he did. So that is what we're going to talk about in the third and final part of the Sonia Exil B series next week. There's still plenty to discuss.

• 1:58:32Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, this is a horrific story. And I feel like it's going to get a little worse as we hear more details. But I do agree with you, this, this case, this incident appears to only be scratching the surface of something much more sinister, much, much deeper. And I'm interested to hear what else is uncovered as this investigation unfolds. That will have to wait until next week. As always, guys, we appreciate you being here. If you're watching on YouTube, please like, comment, subscribe. If you're listening on audio, we would really appreciate it if you take five seconds just to rate and review the episode. Really does help with the algorithm to get a scene by more people. And we would appreciate that.

• 1:59:15Derrick Levasseur?

  Doesn't cost you anything, but it really helps us out. As always, we will be back next week. Until then, stay safe out there. We'll see you soon.

• 1:59:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  Bye.