Path to Olympic Gold – Mind Over Matter (Part 2)

Welcome to Part 2 of my conversation with the lovely Rebecca Soni! To recap from Monday, Reb is a two-time World Swimmer of the Year; a multiple Olympic gold medalist & World Record Holder; a six-time NCAA Champion; a giant inspiration, especially to young women across the globe; as well as a beach dweller, dog owner, basic delight & overall legend now focused on giving back to sport through Atlas Ventures– brain training young athletes on the mental aspects of peak performance along with her best friend and fellow Olympian Ariana Kukors. If you have not yet listened to Part 1 of our sit down, check that out first. Then tune in here. It just gets better as it goes. I hope you enjoy the show. Let me know what you think in the comments section below. And if you have been enjoying the show, tell a friend! Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 1:04Rich Roll?

  Welcome to the Rich Roll Podcast, episode 89, part two of my conversation with Olympic swimmer Rebecca Sony.

• 1:24Rich Roll?

  Hey, gang. Welcome back to the show. I'm your host, Rich Roll, and this is the Rich Roll Podcast. Thanks for dropping in. Each week, I bring to you the best, most forward-thinking, paradigm-busting minds in wellness, fitness, athleticism, creativity, diet, nutrition, art, entrepreneurship, personal growth, and spirituality. The goal is to provide you with all the tools, knowledge, inspiration you need to uncover, discover, unlock, and unleash your best, most authentic self.

• 1:50Rich Roll?

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• 2:33Rich Roll?

  haven't addressed it yet, and that is our new electrolyte supplement called Ion. And if you know me, you know, I'm not a big fan of all the sugary drinks that athletes and non-athletes use out there, the Gatorades, the Cytomaxes, etc. We're told that we need these because we need to replenish both our glycogen stores and our electrolytes while we exercise and after we exercise. And this is true, actually. Electrolytes are important, they're an important biological component that regulates your body's pH and nerve function and muscle function and hydration. And when you sweat, you lose them, you lose the electrolytes, and it's important to replenish them and replenish them properly. But what we don't need is all the sugar, all the artificial flavoring and the additives.

• 3:18Rich Roll?

  For the glycogen part, I use real food, bananas, dates, yams, almond butter, etc. And these electrolytes don't need to be tied to the sugar. In fact, it's best when they're not. And more importantly, you need to replenish them in the same proportion and balance in which you sweat them out. Most of the electrolyte supplements out there are very high in sodium, but not so much when it comes to calcium, magnesium, and potassium. Your body functions best when you have the right balance, so it's important to replenish in the right balance. So, we created this product, Ion, and essentially, it contains the electrolytes in the exact same proportion and balance in which you sweat them out. So, you're replenishing what you lose.

• 4:02Rich Roll?

  And it comes in a capsule format, so it's not tied to any of these sugary drinks, or gels, or any of the color additives, etc. It dispenses with all of that, so you just get... What you need. I could talk about it for a lot longer, but you get the idea. If you want to learn more, go to richworld.com under the products section. And for this product, there's some additional information on it. And there's some cool infographics here that kind of help illustrate what I'm trying to say. So that's it. Anyway, back to the show. Today, we're back with part two of my conversation with two-time Olympian and six-time Olympic medalist, back-to-back Olympic gold medalist and world record holder, Rebecca Soni.

• 4:47Rich Roll?

  If you haven't listened to part one yet, please check that one out first. But if you already did and you dug it, then it just keeps getting better in part two. To coin a phrase from swimming parlance, we negative split this baby. So let's just get right into it.

• 5:13Rich Roll?

  So you grow up swimming in New Jersey and you reach a certain level of proficiency. You're quite fast and you go off to USC to swim underneath legendary coach Mark Schubert. Right. And for people that are listening that don't follow swimming, Mark Schubert is an absolute legend of the sport. He was a legend when I was swimming, you know, like forever ago. And he was a legend before I was swimming. Like he's had this incredibly storied career. He's built, you know, college programs and club programs. He cut his teeth developing the Mission Viejo program back in the 1970s. And, you know, he's one of the most well-known and revered and most respected coaches of all time. And it used to be that kids or families would send their kids across the country to go swim underneath them at Mission Viejo, like he was the guy.

• 5:58Rich Roll?

  And his philosophy of training is based predominantly on massive amounts of volume, like churn and burn, like, you know, just ridiculous volumes. And maybe that philosophy evolved somewhat over time, but like in the seventies, the eighties and the nineties, that's what he was known for. And some swimmers flourish under this high-volume program and some burn out, right? And he churned out his number of champions over the years. And then there are other people that, you know, sort of, you know, feel that they didn't reach their potential under that kind of philosophy. And so you go and you show, and you had sort of been a high-volume person in high school, right? So this was home for you to go and swim with Mark. That felt right. It did.

• 6:38Rich Roll?

  And what's interesting about it is that for the true formative years of your career, like age seventeen to twenty, you developed to a certain level where you were on the world scene, but you weren't a world record holder. You weren't qualifying, you were getting like fourths and tens at these big meets, right? So you were on, you know, you were a name, but you weren't at the top of the peak, right?

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:02Rich Roll?

  And then, so Mark just exits, right?

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:07Rich Roll?

  And then enter Dave.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:08Rich Roll?

  It's a whole new situation where Dave comes in, he's like, "We're not doing this high-volume stuff anymore." He has a completely different approach to coaching, which is much more intensity and technique-focused. But you're also in the pool with all these amazing breaststroke, like some of the world's greatest breaststokers, men and women are with you, right?

• 7:26Speaker 01

  Well, that was, that came years.

• 7:27Rich Roll?

  That came later.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that came a little later.

• 7:29Rich Roll?

  Okay, so that came later. But this was kind of jarring to you, and you weren't so sure about this, right? And you almost were like, "This is not, I'm out of here."

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just.

• 7:38Rich Roll?

  "I'm not gonna do this."

• 7:39Speaker 01

  I'd never really been introduced to that kind of training before, and granted, it was a transitional time, and he wasn't, you know, Schubert was halfway out, Saylor was halfway in, and that summer, you know, I just remember, it was so confusing because Schubert would do the morning practices, so we'd do our four hundred IMs and whatnot in the morning, and then come to afternoon practices, and we were doing butt dives. And I was like, "What is a butt dive?" It was where you stand like backwards on the block, and you do like a backwards pike and land on your butt, and like, it's this, the most ridiculous thing.

• 8:10Rich Roll?

  Why are we doing this? Why are you wasting my time?

• 8:12Speaker 01

  I was like, "Why in the world, how is this gonna make me better at two hundred breaststroke?" And like, sure, it's fun, but it's a waste of time, you know? I didn't buy in, and, you know, leave it to me. I was like, "I wanna be the best butt diver there is," and I, you know, I perfected the art of the butt dive, which I'm very proud of, but... But it took a long time. It took us a year to figure it out.

• 8:34Rich Roll?

  If you look at like the other great female breast strikers, you know, Amanda Beard, they were like, they were peaking, or maybe not peaking, but they were swimming incredibly fast, very young, like 15, 16, 17. So here you are, you're basically 20, right? When this new equation is coming in. And yeah, it didn't, it took like a year and a half, right, before it really started to click in.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  It takes time, and it's very interesting. And I don't think there's necessarily a right and a wrong way to train. I really value the endurance work that I did early on as a young kid and through, you know, high school and the beginning of college. And there's no greater blessing in disguise than Dave Salo falling into my life because I didn't want him. I would never have searched him out. But the things that I learned from switching to that kind of training, and especially, you know, I was a little bit older. It was a good time to make that transition because I don't think my body could have really held on to that kind of training for much longer. And so to try something new, I think is so valuable, to try a different type of training. And then, of course...

• 9:40Rich Roll?

  Was there a moment where you were like, no, I'm out, like, I need to go back to what I know? Like, there's too much at stake? Like, it had to be scary.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  There were a lot of moments. There were days when I would come into practice, and practice would be over. And I was like, Dave, can I just stay and do 10, 400 IMs?

• 9:56Rich Roll?

  Right, just for your mental sanity.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Which is terrible. Like, just saying that now makes me kind of want to throw up a little bit.

• 10:01Rich Roll?

  I know, I get what you're saying.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  But then, at the same time, you know, it took us a year. So the story goes that we were at Pac-10s at the time, Pac-10s. And so our college season was almost over, NCAA was coming up, and this was my sophomore year now. And I just ran the 200 IM, and I just did terrible, right? So I go over to Coach Dave, and I'm like, Dave, like, see, it sucks. Like, this, see, it doesn't work for me, right? So that's the point when I was just ready to give up. And, you know...

• 10:32Rich Roll?

  And you'd been training with him for a year?

• 10:35Speaker 01

  For a year, for a year. And, you know, I pride myself on doing what Coach says. I'm the good girl, whatever. I do what I'm told, and I work the hardest and this and that. And therefore, you know, I don't get yelled at very often. He laid it on me. He did not like what I was saying. He just like in the middle of the pool deck, in a big meet, you know, he just went off on me and was like, you need to buy into this and you know, basically saying like, you're holding yourself back. It's not me, it's not my training, it's you. It's your problem. You're not buying in.

• 11:08Rich Roll?

  You're also holding on to this belief, like you're very attached to this idea that what he's, you're attached to the idea of proving him wrong, which is self-defeating.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  It is, it is. And I didn't really realize any of that at the time. And so in that conversation, I was kind of, you know, thrown off by being yelled at like that because that doesn't happen very often to me.

• 11:27Rich Roll?

  Especially for the good girl who does what Coach says.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Exactly. And so that definitely, you know, woke me up a little bit. Then at the same time, I was like, I just decided then and there, okay, fine, I'll buy into it. I just let go and I said, I'm gonna step back, you know, I'll let him win. I'll, I'll put my pride aside. Like you said, it's not about proving him wrong anymore. I'll just say, I'm, I'm gonna buy in. You're right, you know, I, I've been doing it, but with a little asterisk that says, I don't think you're right, you know? So I did everything to the full extent, but not mentally, going back to the mental stuff. And so right then and there, I just decided to let go. And since then, we've had a really great, you know, swimmer-coach relationship and he's become someone that I look up to so, so, so much.

• 12:11Rich Roll?

  So was there one performance after that where it clicked in and you were like, okay, I'm on board now?

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Um, I can't remember a specific performance, but the rest of that meet went pretty well. Granted, I never was an IMer and that was the 200 IM that I was complaining about, but so my breaststroke events all went fine, went great. And, uh, you know, from then on, then we went into summer season, which was world champs year. And I think, I mean, it didn't even matter. I didn't need that. I just needed that physical, you know, switch in the brain that said, okay, I buy in now. I get it. And that's the hardest thing. Yeah, that's the hardest thing with changing coaches, with a new, with anything new in your life, with any change in your life, whether it's how you eat, what you do for workout, anything, a new job, a new... Absolutely anything. It's all about just buying in and believing in yourself and in

• 12:59Speaker 01

  what's going on and just giving it a full go, you know, not just halfway foot in the door, but just jumping in all in.

• 13:06Rich Roll?

  And the thing is, is that it really just, it really took until 2008 before it really started to gel completely, right?

• 13:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I had a lot of going on.

• 13:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you had, I mean, you had won your event at NC2As every year. Like you were, you know, you were, you were winning luck all over the place, but I mean, would it be fair to say that going into Olympic trials or the Olympics that you were like favored to set the world record and, and win the gold medal? I mean, maybe in your mind you were.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  No, not even in my mind. I don't think so.

• 13:37Rich Roll?

  That's the thing. Yeah, because there were a lot of other, there were a lot of other people going into 2008 that were being looked at for that top podium spot, right? So it really all like came together like, like this Cinderella story for you in 2008, especially after the weird thing that happened at trials in the, in the 100 breaststroke, which is you got, you got, so tell that story. You got four.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. So that was, I, I was coming in and, you know, I said earlier that when I was a kid, I never thought I would be an Olympian. The thought never crossed my mind. So it wasn't until the year before Beijing, you know, the summer before, I was finally at the top in the country in the 200 breaststroke and, and, you know, really comfortably at the top. And I think I was having a little talk with Dave and he's like, you know, all you have to do is do what you're doing and you're going to be on, on the Olympic team. And I was like, wow, like no way, you know, that was the first time I ever thought about it. And so from then on out, that was my focus, you know, for the next year. And so when we got to trials, you know, a lot was going on in my mind between, I know I got

• 14:42Speaker 01

  the 200 breaststroke, like I'm so confident in the 200, but swimming 100, it was always just kind of like, I have no idea how to do this sprint race, right? So. Because I'm all, you know, I'm all second half. I'm all, the longer the better. If there was a mile breaststroke, that would be awesome. But, um, so the 100 is always first and we go into the 100 and I do prelims and semifinals. And all of a sudden, I think I was either first or second going out of semifinals. And I had not expected that in the 100 at all. And so all of a sudden in my head, I was like, oh yeah, like I got this, you know? I'm just going to make team here and then I can relax for the 200 breaststroke and swim an amazing race and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, it's not that easy. So I got up on the blocks and I was so nervous, I totally blew it. Like I totally blew it.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  My time would have made it from semis, but I was a second slower in finals and I got fourth place.

• 15:31Rich Roll?

  And for the listener, they only pick the first two to go to the Olympics. So you're out by two places.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  So I was out, but I still had my best race to come. And, uh, even though I never expected to make it in that 100 breaststroke, I was still like, my world was just rocked. Like to lose it like that, uh, you know, to add a second in a really important race like that, I'd never had that happen to me ever before. And it's all about the pressure. It's all about, you know, there's something more riding on it. This is not just a national title, it's the ticket to Beijing. And so, um, well, I came back and managed to get my head on straight and swim the 200 breaststroke and got, I won that event. So I got my ticket and, uh,

• 16:11Rich Roll?

  And you went 222, right? Did you go 222?

• 16:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I already, yeah, 222 in trials. And then, um, we're, you know, we go straight to training camp from trials. We got a month on the road and...

• 16:24Rich Roll?

  And the other thing about that, just sorry I keep interrupting you, but just because a lot of people who don't know that much about swimming are probably listening. So there's this weird no man's land period in between Olympic trials and the Olympics. And it's, it's tricky because when you're a swimmer, you train really hard and then you taper to try to be at your peak. And now you have this period of time where it's not quite enough time to really start training really hard again and taper again, but you can't really extend your taper that long without getting out of shape. And so there's a bizarre kind of chemistry in how each athlete approaches this bizarre period of time in between. And, and some people end up having better performances at the Olympics. Olympics and some people are really flat at the Olympics because so much goes into making

• 17:05Rich Roll?

  the team for trials. It's so intense. And then it's just gravy to be at the Olympics and people let their guard down, or they can't figure out what that chemistry is to try to be in that peak condition once again. So in a period of time, that's pretty much, you know, really short after trials.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really challenging time. And going back to my theme of not really knowing what's going on, I didn't really care much about what was happening during taper. And you see a lot of athletes who are so into the formula, what's the secret to success and taper, like exactly down to the days and the hours and the workouts and the yardage. And, you know, three days out, I can only do 3,000. And we can only do starts on two days out. And it's just so, it didn't make sense to me. I didn't, I didn't really swim by that formula for success. I swam on emotion and I swam on, you know, my passion and drive. It didn't matter how much I rested. So I was lucky where I could kind of sit back and I just said, I'm gonna do, you know, whatever I need to do. I'm gonna do

• 18:04Speaker 01

  whatever the coach says, and I'm gonna be really confident about it. And if I'm confident in what I'm doing, then it's the right thing.

• 18:09Rich Roll?

  But you don't have Dave.

• 18:10Speaker 01

  But I didn't have Dave.

• 18:11Rich Roll?

  Right. But you've developed this ability to rely on yourself a little bit more because of the way that he approached his coaching.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, you know, we knew the other coaches, and so I trusted them and we had our conversations.

• 18:22Rich Roll?

  Who were the coaches?

• 18:23Speaker 01

  I mean, there were, there were a lot of coaches, you know, back then. And Dave did come to London, so I trained with him. But, um, gosh, John or Banchek was always...

• 18:34Rich Roll?

  He's my all time favorite coach.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, just like chatting with him. And I mean, there are so many coaches from Terry McKeever to Troy from Florida. And, um, you know, just, it's so fun. Swimming is so fun in college because here are these coaches that coach your rival teams. But when you get to that level, the national team, whether it's world championships or the Olympics, all of a sudden, you have to swim with them and you're, you know, here's the coach from Cal and, you know, I have to do what she says. And at the same time, in the back of my mind, I'm like, oh, she's a bear. Like, she, she's a, she goes, Cal, you know. But at the same time, you build this relationship with them and they become, you know, they become your family too, and your swim family. And so, you know, we had, I just trusted all the coaches. I, you know,

• 19:21Speaker 01

  we all become a family during that time, that period. And I did watch the people that panic about taper and I just was so confident in the fact that, you know, I really could tell that as long as I'm standing behind what I'm doing, whether I think it's scientifically correct or not, as long as I stand behind it, it's the right thing for me. So, you know, I remember as a kid, I would do two or three day tapers for big national meets and that was it, whereas other people do two weeks. And so, I didn't really care about taper. If I get to get out early, that's fantastic, you know, that's awesome. But I don't, I like to do, you know, do what I'm told and let other people worry about it. And as long as I trust in them and trust in myself, I don't think you can really mess

• 20:06Speaker 01

  it up that much. Two weeks out, you've worked your whole life, you can't mess it up. You can mentally mess it up. And that's where people get wrapped up in taper is, you know, they get wrapped up and I'm not doing it right. And that's the, that's the problem right there is what is that thought. It's not about what you're actually doing. It's about what you think about what you're doing.

• 20:23Rich Roll?

  But when you look back and then you look at Beijing and you, you weather this, this interim period and then you, you show up at that meet and you drop two seconds off your two hundred breaststroke time and you win the gold medal and you set the world record, right? So you have this, I mean, two seconds is a lot.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  Well, I came in, I dropped two seconds in trials and then two more seconds. So I actually dropped four seconds that year.

• 20:46Rich Roll?

  That's, that's an unbelievable progression.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  It was, it really was. And I was the last person to expect it. And Beijing was so fun because I, as much as I trained for it that year, just being there was the prize, you know? And, and I always say that a happy swimmer is a fast swimmer. Nothing else really matters. If you're happy, if you're having a good time, you're going to swim fast.

• 21:10Rich Roll?

  You feel like you were relaxed in Beijing?

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would, I mean, I was more nervous than ever, but I, the general vibe of it going in, I was just so excited to be there. And I remember, you know, from getting there to, oh my gosh, the dorms are so fun. And then the dining hall is so fun and everything's so fun. The pool is so fun. It was just the first time, you know, it was this beautiful experience where everything was brand new and shiny and, you know, it didn't even matter. And of course it did matter how I did, but I was so wrapped up in the experience that that kind of just swept away. And that's why I was able to swim fast and to do, to do what I did. And, you know, back to that 100 breaststroke, I got it.

• 21:50Rich Roll?

  The whole thing started with this 100 breaststroke story. We gotta, we gotta circle it back and bring that home.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  I mean, I, I found out that I was gonna, I was gonna swim it. So a teammate had tested positive, um, unfortunately. And, and they needed to fill the spot. It was too late to bring the third place person in because I had gotten fourth. So there was still one person above me, but, um, and so it's too late to bring them there. I mean, we were already in Beijing at this time. And they said, well, do you want to swim? I said, sure, you know, why not? I'll get another swim in. But, uh, I always love to get another race in before the 200. The 200 is my baby. That is my event. Uh, the 100, I always thought of as the warm up, the trial run, the like fun little, like take a go at it. Try out the blocks and everything and just see what happens. And I ended up getting a silver medal in that.

• 22:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's crazy. So you're fourth at the Olympic trials. You're the fourth American.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:39Rich Roll?

  But then one, one girl gets knocked out.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:43Rich Roll?

  Doping. And then another one, what happened? She scratched or?

• 22:47Speaker 01

  No, she, I mean, she, I think she, uh, was either in the finals heat or in semifinals. So she, she was there.

• 22:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but you were still third. Like, how did you make the team in the 100?

• 22:59Speaker 01

  Oh, the third place. Um, yeah. So it was too late at that time.

• 23:03Rich Roll?

  She missed like a deadline or something. There was some weird thing that happened.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  It was a deadline. And I mean, a month had gone by since trials. And if you look at it, I don't know if she was, I don't think she was training. You know, why would anyone train after they miss the Olympic team? So, um,

• 23:16Rich Roll?

  You have to fill out some paperwork or something like that? Like, I don't understand how.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't know. And another thing I just, I didn't understand.

• 23:22Rich Roll?

  I mean, is that because she was doping and didn't want to get caught or something like?

• 23:25Speaker 01

  No, it wasn't her choice. She fought for it.

• 23:28Rich Roll?

  Theory behind.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  No, so she, I mean, I don't, I didn't get too involved. I just, he said, you know, tell me if I'm swimming or not. Uh, but the way that I understand what happened was that, that by the time that, um, My teammate was out, so she couldn't swim it for doping. And she's a great friend and I love her dearly. And you know, my heart goes out to her for that whole situation. But she was out.

• 23:52Rich Roll?

  That was a weird situation.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  It was weird, yeah.

• 23:54Rich Roll?

  It's different from cycling, right? Like, there was some...

• 23:57Speaker 01

  No.

• 23:57Rich Roll?

  Just because people are gonna wanna know what the detail... We can't just gloss over this doping thing.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  I mean, it was, from my understanding, it was just, she had no idea what happened, where it came from. One of those where, you know, she had to go in.

• 24:10Rich Roll?

  She taking like some over the counter, like, supplements from GNC or something like that?

• 24:13Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 24:13Rich Roll?

  And what was the argument, at least, that she...

• 24:16Speaker 01

  That it was tainted supplements.

• 24:17Rich Roll?

  I see.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  So she was taking something legal, but it was tainted.

• 24:20Rich Roll?

  What was the, what was the active ingredient in it?

• 24:23Speaker 01

  I wish I knew. I don't get involved in these things.

• 24:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, like, but what is a kind of perception among, you know, the other Olympians about doping in the sport? I mean, is that some... I mean, people would like to know. Like, is that something that you see or you hear about? Or the rumors? Or is it, or is that like a really weird, rare occasion? Or is it like cycling? Is it totally different than cycling?

• 24:45Speaker 01

  No, I think it's totally different than cycling, I think, and I hope. But like I said, I tend to distance myself from things that I don't care for. So I'll take the political answer and say that I know what I did and that was nothing. Like, I literally avoided antibiotics when I was sick, allergy medicine when I had allergies. I avoided everything. I took water and, you know, spinach. And so I don't, I don't know. And I don't know what conversations were being had. That being said, I'm sure it's out there. I'm sure people did it on purpose. And I don't think this was one of those situations, which is really unfortunate, because, you know, I trained with her. I, we swam the same event.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  We were together, side by side, from training to making the team and all that. And to see that all being ripped away from her was really hard. She was actually my roommate, you know, in training camp. And so she just, you know, got a note under to the door that one day that said, we need to talk to you. And that was it. And I text her and she's like, family emergency, gotta go or whatever, you know, she couldn't tell me. But, you know, I was just, it was a hard situation because she's a friend and, and I, I know her. I know that she wouldn't do anything like that, you know, and since then, times gone by, she did make the 2012 team. And, you know, she won her case against, in the law battles and

• 26:05Rich Roll?

  Oh, so she pursued it?

• 26:06Speaker 01

  She did, and she luckily, because she got what she needed, which was redemption for her name. You know, she wasn't doing anything on, on purpose on, that was wrong when that's what, you know, it really, my heart goes out to her. And, and how much strength and perseverance she showed through all of that was incredible. And to see her to keep, you know, to go up and down and, and obviously we trained together. So, um, I, I did my best to, you know, kind of distance myself from the situation. Because I didn't, you know, when we hang out, I don't want to bring it up and say, oh, what's the latest with your lawsuit? You know, I just wanted to be a friend and, and it's hard because we're competitors and we're friends and all of that. But, you know, I'm sure some people do it, some people don't.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Some people go about it like me and say that, you know, I trust myself and that's all I can do is, is I can be the best person I can be. Without any sort of any, I'm not going to risk anything. And then, yeah, I'm sure there are

• 26:59Rich Roll?

  Would you do, would you do like protein powders or any kind of, no, so you have to avoid all of that stuff?

• 27:05Speaker 01

  I chose to.

• 27:06Rich Roll?

  Because it's too scary.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  It's kind of like, and I don't know if that's right or wrong, you know, I don't know if that's right or wrong by any means. And, and I'm sure that, that I could have taken protein powders and yeah, I drank Gatorade. That was about it. And, uh, and I'm sure there's stuff that's perfectly legal that you can do. But to me, that, to me, that didn't sit right. And that's why I didn't do anything. And then that could be really naive point of view, or it could be a good point of view, I'm not sure.

• 27:34Rich Roll?

  You're buying something and you don't know what kind of facilities it's manufactured in. And then there's this crossover, tainting and that, that does happen, depending upon who, you know.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  But it was more for me, the personal, uh, you know, the personal reason of knowing that I'm doing, I'm adding something to my body. That's not part of me innately, like it's not a piece of me and I'm adding it and it's, I'm doing it to perform better. I don't like that. So I, I just avoided it. It just didn't sit right in me. I didn't want to, like, I found a lot of pride in

• 28:08Speaker 01

  Racing the way that I did and doing it as purely me, if that makes sense. So it wasn't about fear of getting caught. It wasn't about fear of doing something an accidental, you know, tainting and this and that. It was, I'm gonna focus all my energies about being better in practice and training and working harder, outworking everybody, not looking for a shortcut. You know, whether it was a legal shortcut or not legal.

• 28:32Rich Roll?

  And so what did the diet look like when you were training?

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Um, when I was training, well, I mean, when I was in high school, it was the typical swimmer diet of eat anything you want, foot long sub before.

• 28:43Rich Roll?

  Swimmers pride themselves on, I mean, they actually have like food eating contests, like how many donuts can you eat?

• 28:48Speaker 01

  And then college came around and, you know, then being a twenty something year old woman came around, which means that it doesn't matter how much you train, you're still gonna change a little bit. And so I loved, you know, that period after college when I was a quote unquote professional athlete. And I just got to do every, everything that I did in my day was about swimming and about my body and about, you know, making myself the best I could. So I took up, you know, I fell in love with cooking and I fell, you know, I, I loved just trying new recipes, trying new things and, and taking a lot of pride in, in what I put into my body that way. And so, I mean, I definitely ate healthy.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  I grew up with a, with a home cooked meal kind of lifestyle and, and I loved going back to that after college. In college, it was hard and, and it didn't feel right.

• 29:40Rich Roll?

  And paprika?

• 29:41Speaker 01

  Sure, yeah, so we had a lot of that as a kid. Um, I didn't quite make those, I saved those for special go home meals. But, um, I don't know, I just, I, I started slowly, slowly, slowly just incorporating a lot more, uh, fruits and vegetables and fresh food. And my biggest regret is that I didn't try the vegetarian diet as an athlete. Cause I was scared, you know, I just didn't do my research. I didn't, I didn't look through it and you just are so caught up in the stigma of you can't do that as an athlete.

• 30:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it can be scary. It's like you're taking a risk, you know, when everybody's telling you like that's a bad idea.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so I just cut it out as much as I could. Um, and, you know, it is what it is. But after, then, then comes the what happens after swimming stops and that's a whole nother story of.

• 30:29Rich Roll?

  Right, cause I look at your Twitter profile and it says that you are plant powered.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:33Rich Roll?

  So what's going on?

• 30:35Speaker 01

  So I mean, I, I didn't know a good word. I don't want to call myself like a vegetarian or a vegan. I just eat what I want to eat and it just happens to be fruits and vegetables and lots of, lots of smoothies. If you also look at my Twitter, it's like all smoothies. But it just, it just makes you feel good. But I, I mean, I cut it out a long, long time ago. It's been pretty much since I went through that whole thing after swimming ends and you're used to your habits. It's just like a habit like anything else is eating. And I remember the day that I had a little breakdown. I was like, I can't, the only way that I feel like I've eaten is if I'm like rolling on the floor and stuff, because that's what we have to do as, you know, as a young swimmer is that's, you have to keep shoving food in your mouth.

• 31:20Rich Roll?

  There's something weird about swimming too, because if I can go out and ride my bike for like four or five hours, like hard, or I can go on like a really long run and, and it doesn't really trigger my appetite that much. Like certainly I'll eat a little bit more, but like swimming, like you, you go like, you know, 7,000 or whatever and you come back and it's like, you just cannot stop eating.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  No, you can't, you never get full. And I don't, I wish I knew the science behind that. But, but then, then all of a sudden, you know, that, that feeling of eating that much is, is that's what eating means to you. And so I remember having this moment where obviously I can't eat that much anymore, but I'm never satisfied anymore because I'm not working out. So I can't eat that much. And, and it's hard. Like it's really challenging to, to make that switch. And so, you know, I tried this and that and nothing was sticking. So I just said, forget it. Like I'm just gonna, I, I went through juicing. I went through all these sorts of things and nothing was like super structured. I just, I fell in love, you know, I really loved cooking, found that I loved cooking the side dishes and eating the side dishes a lot more because it was, that's what felt good. And so.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Um, I cut out meat and, and that felt great. And then soon enough I cut out dairy because, you know, I wanted to give it a try. And then all of a sudden my allergies are gone. And I'm thinking, you know, I've had these allergies my whole life and I've lived with, you know, I, I go back and watch videos of myself doing interviews and I, I sound like this. I'm like stuffed up like, and that's just who I like, that's how I was. I had terrible allergies and now those are gone. And so, um, now the next thing I cut out was I cut out like the bread products and the pasta and, and that stuff. And all of a sudden I have more energy. And so it's just been a really slow progression.

• 33:00Rich Roll?

  That's really cool.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  And it's really fun. And, and I also just love the reaction from people. I read, I, you know, read something the other day. It's just one of those little funny little stickers with the people, uh, making funny faces. And then there's this little slogan and it's like, nobody cared about your protein intake until you tell them you're a vegan or something. It's just so funny.

• 33:20Rich Roll?

  A little stick figures of like, I'm going, I'm go, yeah, I use that in my presentations.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:25Rich Roll?

  When I talk, it's like, I'm going to McDonald's. Okay. I'm going out for a smoke. Okay. I'm going out to get drunk. Okay. I'm go, I'm going vegan. What? You're gonna kill your babies and you're gonna die.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  I know. It's so, I mean, to me, the most interesting thing is, is people's reaction. And, and I, I'm so curious about what that psychologically, what's happening in their brain and why they're so defensive and angry about it. And, and it goes back to-

• 33:50Rich Roll?

  What's your theory?

• 33:51Speaker 01

  My theory is that, um, my dog is barking at your kids.

• 33:56Rich Roll?

  Oh, it's a guy out there.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  Uh, my theory is, is that we live in a culture that's fed by negativity. And that's just what we're used to. And people are just, they're just used to it. And so I, I don't know, I haven't fully developed my theory, but, but, um, my theory is that people don't want to hear if you're doing well because they, they're scared to take that step, you know, or they're scared to try something different or, or it's just, you know, that is the essence of who they are and you are offending them by saying that, you're not even saying they're not right. Cause I don't go and tell other people they need to try this or, um, you know, it's, if they ask, I'll tell them my success or whatever, but-

• 34:38Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna go up and start a conversation that way and I'm not telling them they should not eat that hamburger when we go out to dinner. But the one time I remember it really just clicked and I for some reason was just, I was feeling so good. I just had been on a trip with a friend and we'd just eaten really clean. We actually were in New York for a week and we had, we bought a juicer and a smoothie and we just like packed our bags every day with that. And I came back home and I was like flying high, I was feeling so good. And so I met some friends out for dinner and you know, it's like, yeah, I don't, I don't even want a beer. Like, and they're like, what? Whoa, now you're too high and mighty to have a beer. I was like, no, I like, I just know I'll feel better with that. And, and soon enough, it was like, you're not gonna have one of those french fries? I was like, no, I just don't want one, thank you.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  You know, and the whole conversation, the whole night turned into, oh, you're too high and mighty to, to have a french fry with us. And like, does it really matter to you?

• 35:29Rich Roll?

  It's a weird emotional thing.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that conversation really.

• 35:33Rich Roll?

  Even if you're not, yeah, you're not like telling anybody what to do or make, you're just, you're just basically making a decision about what you wanna do. And there's a weird twist or an interpretation that is made that suddenly shifts the dynamic of the conversation. And it's like, I mean, if you were to say, you know, I, I don't really like, you know, I, I like German cars better than American cars. Or I like Adidas and you like Nike, like who cares, right? But like, there's something about food when you're like, no, I'm gonna, I'm, I like doing it this way. That suddenly it triggers something. So psychologically, it's, it's fascinating.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I, I mean, I think it's, people defend their food because it's the basis of who they are. And they don't necessarily see it that way, but it is, what you eat becomes what you are. And they're, you know, it's, it's, it's your culture, it's your family, it's your heritage, it's everything. And so the other thing with that is I, I think people are really scared to feel good. Which is a strange thing and it's it goes back to all of the mental training of of things. And I've found a lot of times the the thing that, you know, sometimes I I have this one exercise that I've been meaning to do and I keep putting it off, keep putting it off, keep putting it off. And I have to sit down and think, you know, why am I avoiding this like the play like why? I just want to sit down and write about this one subject, but why? Why am I avoiding it so much? And it's because I'm I'm afraid of it.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  I'm afraid of feeling good. I'm afraid of success. I'm the fear of success is an interesting one to me because, you know, I studied a lot about it in psychology, all the fears and rejection, you know, loneliness, fear of failure, but then there's fear of success. And I don't I don't quite grasp that one yet, but I know that we all have a little bit of it of of what happens when I do get that is is it gonna be good enough? Am I gonna be good? You know, what's next and and that whole thing. But I, you know, the reason I think that people are so, you know, afraid to make a change in their life all across the board because change is hard, but I think it's a lot of fear of of then what? You know, what if I try this and it doesn't work? Or?

• 37:34Rich Roll?

  What if I tried and it works?

• 37:35Speaker 01

  Or what if I tried and it works?

• 37:37Rich Roll?

  What does that mean?

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Right. And that that kind of shatters your self-image and and that goes back to your voice in your head that says you can't do that, you can't do that, you're not good at this. And you don't want to defy the image of yourself, so you're afraid to make that change. And and I think that's that's one of the reasons maybe that people, you know, get so defensive about it. I don't know. I haven't figured.

• 37:58Rich Roll?

  Well, it's definitely not, yeah, it's definitely not logic. Because if you say, hey, my allergies went away and I have all this energy, the logical response is, oh, well, I should investigate that because that sounds like a good thing.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  But what they say is, I can never give up.

• 38:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but then it's just, but it's but then it it goes to anger.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:14Rich Roll?

  Something that's weird. So because if you were to say, if somebody said, how did you drop two seconds of your breaststroke time? And you said, oh, I have this brand new bathing suit that's really fast and I did this one workout.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  They would jump on it.

• 38:24Rich Roll?

  They would all go out to buy and buy the bathing suit and they would all do that workout that you did.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:28Rich Roll?

  You know? So but when you if you were to say, well, I dropped two seconds because I changed my diet to this, oh, wait, not so not so fast.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 38:35Rich Roll?

  It doesn't matter if it's paleo or Mediterranean or Atkins or vegan or whatever. It's just it it's it's it's not inherently a vegan thing. Vegan thing has its own. Very specific kind of reactions, set of reactions.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:47Rich Roll?

  It gets, but, but I think anytime you're saying anything about food, it raises a, a thing and people get, you know, it just, it just gets weird.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  It does. It gets weird really quick and, and you know.

• 38:58Rich Roll?

  So you have to be very careful about how you navigate social situations and.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:03Rich Roll?

  You know, it's like, I don't want to be the dick, you know, I don't want to, I don't, I don't want to take anybody else's judge. I'm not there to tell anybody what they should or shouldn't do.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:10Rich Roll?

  And if somebody's interested, I'm happy to share my experience.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:13Rich Roll?

  But I never proselytize and I never want to be the person at the restaurant who, you know, is getting, there's a, there's a bunch of focus or attention on because you're ordering something different on the menu.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:23Rich Roll?

  I always try to do that very surreptitiously or like kind of, you know, like I don't really want anyone to notice. I don't care. It's just my preference.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  Right. Exactly. And, and it goes, it kind of gets interesting when you talk about, you know, going out to eat and all that because, you know, now it's hard because all of our social interactions revolve around food.

• 39:44Rich Roll?

  Well, you can come and hang out over here.

• 39:47Speaker 01

  I know.

• 39:48Rich Roll?

  You need to move to Venice. Venice, no problem.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, not that it's, I live in the best place in the world in, in LA. I can't imagine, you know, being in the Midwest or something. I'm sure that, I mean, the options are growing there too, but it's just, it's interesting how, how much people bond over food and it goes back to the reason that they get so defensive about it is because that's their common thread to other people.

• 40:09Rich Roll?

  Food is love.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  It is.

• 40:10Rich Roll?

  Food is love. Food is how you relate to your, your mother, your parents. It, it, it carries with it so much meaning and significance that we're not really conscious of, I think.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  And it's interesting to, to maybe sit down and think about that connection and, and what, why do you feel these things? Cause you've probably never asked yourself that question and, and it's kind of, you know, have you ever had that conversation where I love country music, for example, and. And so I don't like to push it on other people, but for some reason, country music, more than any other kind of music, if you, you know, come across a person who hates country and who loves country, there's, there's, there's gonna be anger there. It's kind of like food. It's like, how, like, what do you mean you don't like country music? How can you not like it? And then another person's like, how can you like that stuff? It's terrible, you know, it's just people are so strong about it and they judge you so hard based on, on your choices. And I mean, our choices are who we are. So, you know, judge away,

• 41:04Speaker 01

  it is who I am. But, uh, but it's interesting that I kind of saw that relationship with country music. Like, like, why do you care what I listen to? You know, you listen to what makes you happy. I listen to what makes me happy and that's, that's the end of it. And, uh, like, let everyone choose whatever music they want to choose.

• 41:22Rich Roll?

  Do you think that, uh, for example, when you're like, oh my God, my allergies are gone. Does, does that make you think like, I wonder what it would have been like if I was trying to train eating this way? I mean, does it make you think I should, I should have tried that? Or it would have been interesting to experiment with that?

• 41:37Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I, I mean, that was my biggest regret of my career and I, I don't even think it was a huge one because my career was fantastic. But, um, but it makes me wonder, yeah, how would I have been? Because, um, you know, I, I came home every day and woke up every morning sniffling and that never went away. And I was sick all the time. And, uh, you know, that could have maybe been preventable, but then again, you're, you're pushing your body so hard. But, um, but it makes you wonder what if, and, and, you know, I still am very, really active, as active as I possibly can. And, uh, so I, I, I mean, I'm doing great with it. I feel more energy than I ever have. And, and that's a really wonderful thing. So it, I do wonder, I do wonder what it would have

• 42:21Speaker 01

  been like. And, uh, but you can't go back. So just moving forward.

• 42:25Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 42:37Rich Roll?

  You had this, one thing we didn't talk about was that you had this weird thing in 2006, this cardiac dilation situation. So what is it? Like, is that something that's still relevant, or is it resolved?

• 42:49Speaker 01

  It's resolved. So I had something called SVT, I might butcher it, supraventricular technicardia. Basically, I don't know too much of the science of it, but I know what it felt like. And it was basically an extra, you know, passageway between the chambers of your heart. And when it was triggered by either excessive, you know, exercise, which I do every day, or something like caffeine, or, funny enough, allergy medications. I was screwed with that one. These triggers, let alone heat. I moved to California and trained outside in the summer. That's like heat dehydration. And I was in college. So add in late nights, partying, and this and that. So all these things were triggers.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  When it triggered, basically, the extra passageway in my heart would kind of open up. And instead of pumping blood to the body, my heart would just go back and forth inside of the heart. So it would go in the right, you know, ventricle, and then back to the other one. And it's just, so my heart rate went up and the blood flow went down. So I usually, it was in the middle of practice, and I would feel it, I would feel it like kick in right away. And it was, you know, not a terrible case, but as soon as it triggered, I just, my heart rate flew sky high.

• 44:00Rich Roll?

  It's like your heart is revving, like crazy, right?

• 44:01Speaker 01

  And I lost feeling in my arms and legs. And basically, just like, my body, you get so tired. And you have to stop immediately because you're in water. And God forbid, it gets a little bit worse. You, obviously, you know, the first thing is to just get out.

• 44:14Rich Roll?

  But when you say that your heart rate was like revving, I mean, it's kind of an understatement. Like, I read somewhere that like, at one point, your heart rate hit like 400 beats a minute. Like, that's insane. Like, how is that, how does your heart just not jump out of your chest?

• 44:27Speaker 01

  That was the moment that I said, this is, I can't do this anymore. Because not, not only, you know, when I was younger in New Jersey, and when we first diagnosed this, which took a long time because it only happened in the water. I can't like run to the doctor's office and say, here, like, you know, measure my heart rate. But...

• 44:45Speaker 01

  But back then it happened, you know, maybe once every few months and then I would get out, you know, wait for the heart rate to go back down and sometimes that was it for the day because you just like feel this overwhelming feeling of exhaustion and that lasts for two or three days and then you can get back into it. So it was a big chunk of training that just was so blah and like, you know, when I moved out here to California, it only got a lot worse for all the reasons I mentioned before and, and just general like increase in different kind of training or whatever it was and being outside and, and it started to happen every single day. And before I knew it, you know, I didn't, I didn't want to be that person that always got, I was so mad when it came right at the middle

• 45:28Speaker 01

  of like a hard set. You know, I love to work hard and, and here I am getting out in the hardest part of practice and it just, it didn't sit well. I knew people were looking at me and being like, oh, there she goes getting out again. And it just, it was, it was so hard. And before I knew it-

• 45:41Rich Roll?

  She's faking it again with that 400, 400 heart rate.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  Uh, before I knew it, I was last at the beginning of practice. I was just waiting for it to happen and, and I wasn't trying as hard-

• 45:51Rich Roll?

  So it's starting to happen with more regularity?

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Uh, every single day.

• 45:53Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  And so I just, there was one race in the middle of summer, uh, where it happened in the middle of the race. And at this point, so, uh, it was just normal, right? So it didn't feel as, as threatening. So I could get through it. I just kind of like pudged through it and-

• 46:09Rich Roll?

  Did you have doctors saying, look, you know, this is crazy. What are you doing?

• 46:12Speaker 01

  No, I mean-

• 46:13Rich Roll?

  You've got to get this out. Like you can't be in the water when this is happening.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  No, because I, my coaches knew, I knew. So if God forbid something happened, they were, you know, uh, they, all you had to do is like pull me out. It's not like I'm going to go into cardiac arrest, I hope. But with 400 beats per minute, I remember counting that one day. It was like, it's a challenge just to count that fast. But, uh, it happened in the middle of a race for the first time. And that was the moment that I said, you know, that this is not okay. I can't, I can deal with it in practice, but I can't deal with it in the middle of the race. And, uh, so when it happened in the middle of the race was the time when I just said, you know, that this is it. I went to the coaches at USC. I went to the doctors at, at USC. And luckily I was in a really great facility and people took care of me. And, um, you know, I couldn't necessarily

• 47:00Speaker 01

  have afforded a procedure like this on my own or, or, you know, thankfully my school helped me out there and, and, uh- You know, we just decided to get it taken care of and it was a fairly easy procedure. It's a cardiac ablation, which is minorly invasive and

• 47:15Rich Roll?

  It's like a catheter with a laser or something like that?

• 47:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And so, so we decided to do it, you know, that summer, it was either 2006, 2007, uh, 2006. So, but still fairly close to, you know, Olympic time. And, and I just remember when I got back into the pool, um, I just felt like, wow, like this is how everyone else feels. Cause keep in mind by this time I'd already been training with this for a year and it took longer to undo the damage of training badly for that year than it did for my body. My body recovered right away and I had this feeling of, uh, you know,

• 47:48Rich Roll?

  You were able to manage, yeah, your man, your heart rate is, is not escalating.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  And so, uh, but it took a lot, it took about a year to get back into training in full force.

• 47:57Rich Roll?

  But you know, it's interesting. I wonder, have you ever thought about whether that period of time where you were training under that kind of duress, where your heart rate was racing like crazy, if there was some kind of, uh, like physiological adaptation that your body made that, that could have helped your swimming ultimately. I mean, you have to resolve it, but that period of time where you're training, where you sort of had to acclimate to your heart rate going that fast and learning how to bring it back down.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's definitely possible. And now that's the first time I've heard of it that way and it makes sense. Uh, I mean, plus just dealing with it mentally too. Uh, that, that was huge, I'm sure. To the point where I was pushing it for years and years and years and just that one last year, I couldn't push it anymore. And that's when I, you know, fell to the back of the lane and I was not trying as hard because I was, you know, just, oh, it's gonna happen again.

• 48:47Rich Roll?

  It seems like it was, it wasn't that big of a deal to do the procedure and then it was resolved, right?

• 48:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's always risk with whatever, but it really wasn't that big of a deal. It was just about, uh, you know, taking the time to do it and, uh,

• 49:03Speaker 01

  I don't think I ever thought it would get that bad that I would have to do it. But yeah, once I did it, it was gone. And you know, I still felt it triggering all the time, but it wouldn't actually go through. You know, because I can, I remember I'd be in the middle of practice and I'd feel this little like whatever it is in my heart where it would normally have triggered. And I'm just like, ha, ha, I win, you know, like everything went fine. And, and so slowly I built back up in training and, and got back on it. But yeah, I'm sure that somehow both physically and mentally I grew from that. And it was challenging, but I never wanted it to be a big deal, you know? So when I came back that next year, that year was actually.

• 49:41Rich Roll?

  So it was 06?

• 49:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it must've been 06. So that summer was a trials meet and for that trials meet, you made that summer's world champions as well as the next summer. So I came back, I didn't make any teams for the next year, uh, which is hard because by the time that next year had rolled around, you know, it's 2007.

• 50:01Rich Roll?

  So you're, you're rolling into.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  And I was off the national team.

• 50:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so you're rolling into the 2008 Olympics after, you know, having this experience where you're not, you know, people aren't looking to you. You, you, you weren't even on the, these national teams a year before. So what's interesting is that then, well, there's two things that I want to get to. We're like coming up on two hours here. But there's a couple of things I want to talk about. One is, um, so, so then you go to, you go to Beijing, you break the world record, you get the, you get the gold medal, you go 220, you didn't quite go 219. So maybe in your mind, you still haven't achieved your goal, but certainly you're in a very different place all of a sudden than you were a couple of months prior, particularly in the public eye, you know, suddenly like, you know, average people that don't know anything about swimming know who you are because you're on the Today Show or whatever it is.

• 50:48Rich Roll?

  So how does that, you got, you come back home after that? Like, how is your life suddenly different?

• 50:54Speaker 01

  Um, well, luckily I was still in college. So being still in college, I got right back into my routine. I had this awesome community of people that, you know, both the swim team and, and USC people that it was amazing. It was so fun both to come home and.

• 51:10Rich Roll?

  How many, how many USC swimmers made the team that year?

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Gosh, you're testing my memory.

• 51:16Rich Roll?

  A lot. Well, Shantel, right?

• 51:18Speaker 01

  He was in, I see, no, that was London. That was until London that he came over.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  I mean, there were, there were a couple.

• 51:25Rich Roll?

  And there's the club team and then there's the pro college team, right?

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, the club team and the college team. So, you know, I, in Beijing, I'd never expected those results and I, I mentioned 220 and that was a goal in my mind, but I didn't think I was ready yet. And so when I catapulted those four seconds in that year and I was just above the moon, I did not care that it was not under 220. That didn't even cross my mind.

• 51:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah, a year earlier, you were a 224.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 51:53Rich Roll?

  200 breast stroke.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  I mean, months earlier I was. So, and for, you know, however that happened, I mean, I've been really fortunate and I, I credit a lot of that to both, you know, doing things my own way and just being able to zone out. I know that I'm not somebody who, you know, needs to be looking at results all the time.

• 52:13Rich Roll?

  I took a shot at a Polaroid that I took over.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  Yes, please. I'm not someone who's always looking at results. I didn't care what splits everyone was doing. I didn't, I didn't focus on any of what was going on there. I only focused on myself. And so, I mean, that really, that really helped me in that way. But, yeah, when I, when I came back from Beijing, it was, it was just a lot of fun. It was a fun time. It was a fun place. And at the same time, I didn't know if my swimming career was over or not, but I had to get back in and finish my last year of, of college swimming. You know, I wanted to go for that fourth year of NCAA title in the 200 breast. So, so I jumped right back in and after NCAA, it kind of fell off for a while and took a month or two off and tried to figure out, do I really want this again? Do I really, you know, want to keep pushing

• 53:00Speaker 01

  it? Because I'm now out of college and so on and so forth. And it was 220 that brought me back. I said, I'm, I'm not done yet.

• 53:05Rich Roll?

  That was the thing that was going to be able to bridge you for the next three years or whatever it is.

• 53:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's interesting for us to, I mean, I'm sure a lot of other sports do it as well, but we live on a four-year cycle. That's, that's just the way it is. And you need to be at your best once every four years. But what happens after that time? You know, what happens when you come home and all of a sudden? That thing that's pushing you isn't there anymore, whether you're still swimming or not. And it's also was interesting to me that, you know, I have a lot of friends, obviously, that were there with me at the Olympics and people from other sports that I've seen. And in general, the trend that I saw was that if you do well, if you achieve everything you want to achieve at the Olympics, afterwards, you're going to be way more depressed than somebody who did not achieve what they wanted to achieve.

• 53:53Rich Roll?

  Well, that's just like psychology 101.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, they have so much fire left in them. And I'm just like, you go do what you gotta do, I'm going back to bed, you know? But it was inevitably the 220 that brought me back. And I never told anybody that until after it happened.

• 54:08Rich Roll?

  You didn't even tell Dave?

• 54:10Speaker 01

  No.

• 54:11Rich Roll?

  Did Dave ever say, like, why are you doing this? Or what's driving you to continue? Or it's just a given?

• 54:17Speaker 01

  You know what he said, we had a little talk after that time when I was like, do I keep going or not? And he was like, if you quit, if you were tired today, I'd be happy, I'd be proud of you. And I was like, that's not what you're supposed to say. You're supposed to say, no, get back in the water.

• 54:32Rich Roll?

  Because it's a little like pedantic.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  That just shows, you know, how awesome he is. But that made you really think, you know, it's not for him, it's for me. And so I took my time to figure it out. And I ended up doing this event in Hawaii. You know, I got to go out to Hawaii, do this awesome event called Swim with Mike. It's a great fundraiser, but I'd never been to Hawaii, so.

• 54:54Rich Roll?

  That's the USC.

• 54:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, they do it at USC and they do it in Hawaii. And I think.

• 54:59Rich Roll?

  I didn't know they did it in Hawaii.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:00Rich Roll?

  Cool.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, you should go. But I was there for a week and my sister came out with me and we just had a little downtime. And I just, I hadn't been swimming for a little while, for the first time in probably 12 years that I took more than a week off of swimming. And I just was up at the school, at the University of Hawaii.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  I was like, hey, you know what, I'm gonna come to your practice tomorrow. And they're like, great, you know, typical Hawaiian awesome mindset of when I got there, everything was just so chill, like, you don't wanna do pace, okay, you know, just do it, like, just have fun, you know, just enjoy it. And that really made me have a lot of fun with it. And when I came back from that, from that trip, after I, you know, I ended up in the pool every day, because I started to have fun again. And after that trip, I was like, okay, I gotta focus on the fun. I, I see that now. I don't need to focus on times, because the times don't matter for another three years. I just need to focus on the fun.

• 55:56Rich Roll?

  That's huge, because when you reach your level, and you've got another couple of years left, and you've got sponsors, and you have commitments, and there's the pressure, the fun is going, you know, for a lot of people, there is no more fun.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you see those people that are so wrapped up in times, and taper, and all these things that are kind of out of their control. And I think it just puts them, they think it puts them at ease a little bit, but I, I didn't need that, and I recognized that I just wanted to have fun. So when I came back, I told, I pulled David aside, I said, you know, yeah, I'm gonna do this thing, and, and just, you know, don't you dare tell me a time for the next month, two months, three months, however long it was, you can look at your clock, but do not call out my pace, because, you know, so in practice, you're doing pace all the time, coach is calling out times, and you're just like, oh, I'm way off, or I'm on it, or whatever. I just, I don't wanna know, I'm gonna come, and I'm gonna have fun, and, you know, you can find me at the bottom, blowing bubble rings, and don't bother me, like, let me do my thing.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  And he was all on board with that, and so, uh, so I really just tried to emphasize the fun part of it, and it became really fun. You know, my goals switched from, I wanna hit my pace today, to, um, I wanna make someone laugh today, or I want to blow a certain number, number of bubble rings by the end of this week, or whatever it was, it was always focused on the fun, fun aspect of it.

• 57:11Rich Roll?

  But at some point, it has to turn serious.

• 57:13Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, and it did. But that came when the passion came back, you know, once, once it became more important, and... You know, of course, we're training and training hard every day, but the focus shifts on its own. You know, when it comes time, then you can push it, then you can get back on the pace and all that crazy stuff, so.

• 57:31Rich Roll?

  And there were a couple of other things, interesting things, that kind of happened around this time. One is, this really is where the USC B Crew like really started to take shape, right? Like you had all these amazing breast strippers suddenly descending on USC from Kitajima from Japan, right? Then you have Eric Chantot, you have Alexanderov, you have Jessica Hardy, right?

• 57:51Speaker 01

  Yep, Yulia from the...

• 57:52Rich Roll?

  And Amanda, was Amanda Beard swimming too?

• 57:54Speaker 01

  Amanda came for a short time, yeah.

• 57:55Rich Roll?

  So like, who's left? Like, that's the who's who of breaststroke.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  It really was.

• 57:58Rich Roll?

  Every single one of those athletes has a very different stroke and has a very different training style. And you have Dave, like, trying to manage and balance all of these incredible talents. And, you know, I think there's an idea that you guys are just racing each other every day, but from what I understand and read, like, no, you had individual, you weren't even always in the same pool at the same time, and you're all doing very different things, and...

• 58:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, Dave did a great job managing that. I mean, it can get hard with that much talent in the pool. And guys were competitive, the girls were competitive, and it's hard. As much as, as much as I love and respect my teammates, you know, when it comes down to it, and she's beating me again, it gets to you.

• 58:37Rich Roll?

  Oh yeah, it's gonna wear you out mentally.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  It does. And so, but it was a huge...

• 58:40Rich Roll?

  How are you supposed to beat that person when that person's beat you every single day in practice for the last six months?

• 58:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, so there's a lot happening, but when you come down to it, the opportunity to train with not only the top girls in the field and to train with the guys and someone like Kitajima, who, you know, I watched swim for years, and he's just untouchable on the men's side. And then, you know, then his biggest competitors are training right along with him and pushing each other. And to see that and to be able to push each other to that extent, and, you know, it was all about...

• 59:14Rich Roll?

  It's gotta be this weird mashup of like totally inspiring and understanding like this is a very special moment that's happening right now and also like total dread.

• 59:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:23Rich Roll?

  Do I really, you know, because every day it's like you gotta see, you know, the, the best of the best and you gotta be on your game and.

• 59:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, but it was a great environment and we had an equally powerful freestyle group, you know, especially on the men's side, pretty much the top heat with the exception of like Phelps and Lochtie were training there from across the world and, and I think we had about 25 or 26 athletes at the games from Trojan Sun Clubs, which was just incredible. And I'll never forget one of my, my top memories from London, you know, one day, because when you get to the village, we're all separated by our country. It's no longer, you know, and Dave was on the US team, so he couldn't coach our other athletes, unfortunately, but we had our assistants there and all that. And he did what he could, but we all kind

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  of get separated and we see each other here and there and that's, it's always amazing. But we had this one day when we were like, okay, we need to take a team picture. So Dave sends out a tweet. That's how he tells us all. He sends out a tweet that says Trojan, like assemble at the, the statue of the rings at seven o'clock tonight for a team picture. And some people didn't even get it because who sends a tweet? Like send me an email or something and I'll get it. But anyway, seven o'clock rolls around and the, the statue's rings were, the ring statue was right in the middle of the village. And so it was also right outside the USA area. So we kind of went out there and we're just sitting and waiting for everybody. And it was just a really cool moment where everybody is wearing

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  all their countries, you know, get up the sweats and, and the whole nine yards. And we're just coming from all different corners of the village to meet together, like in front of this iconic symbol and, and take this picture together where, you know, there's people in front of this statue all day long taking pictures and you kind of gotta wait your turn and. And you know, it's usually people from the same country or somewhat similar. But when it was our turn, we all go up there and it's just the most scattered group of people. You know, the guys, the girls, all the different countries from Tunisia to Germany to Japan to the US. And before I knew it, you know, people from, random people walking by were taking pictures of us. Like, what were they thinking? You know, what is this random group of people doing up there together?

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  But it was really, really awesome moment.

• 1:01:43Rich Roll?

  If USC had been its own country at the Olympic swimming, they would have had, they probably would have been up there in the medal hall.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  Probably, yeah, definitely.

• 1:01:50Rich Roll?

  Which, as an alumnus of Stanford, as a loyal Stanford Cardinal, this pains me.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  I mean, not to brag, but what is it? We would have been sixth as a country.

• 1:02:01Rich Roll?

  It's not acceptable.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  I mean, I can't, fight on.

• 1:02:05Rich Roll?

  Please, with the, the whole, like, whatever, the fights, oh, God, it's terrible. I can't even. All right, next subject.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it was, it was an amazing moment and it just showed that we were there to compete, but we were there together. To be on an Olympic team, especially the US swim team, I mean, there's about 50 of us and we trained together, you know, for the whole month beforehand. So we come in as a team and I cannot necessarily think of any other team that really does that. And, you know, the, the experience with the women's team in London was absolutely incredible. I, I'd never experienced that, you know, with the exception of a college team, but to a much greater extent, obviously it's a bigger level. But, but, you know, we spent so much time together and we really built this camaraderie with our friends and teammates.

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  We made that silly little Call Me Maybe video.

• 1:03:02Rich Roll?

  I saw that. And, I'm gonna put that up in the show notes for the episode. The whole swim team made this Call Me Maybe music video, like where they lift, oh my God.

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  And it took like a week, you know?

• 1:03:13Rich Roll?

  I bet that got a lot of views, right?

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  Millions.

• 1:03:16Rich Roll?

  Did it get millions?

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we had our video editor guy who, who does all our underwater video for swimming. Obviously, he's a whiz with video and he put it all together, like he did all the editing. So it was amazing.

• 1:03:26Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  It was just a fun way to distract yourself when it comes down to it.

• 1:03:30Rich Roll?

  Well, it looked like everybody was having fun.

• 1:03:31Speaker 01

  We were having a blast and we were all, you know, supporting each other and. And when we walked in, whenever we walk into the pool deck, Team USA is just like, the show stops. It's like, okay, we're here. And it's not because we're USA, but it's because we're such a huge group of people and we're all, you know, you can tell that we are a team. And in such an individual sport like swimming, that means a lot. It means a lot to step up on the blocks. And, and yeah, here I am racing my biggest competitor and she happens to be my teammate, but we are going to give each other a hug before and after because we're doing this together. And, and yes, we want to win, but when it comes down to it, we want to win for USA. And as long as USA gets the medals, then, then, you know, there's, there's more going on, but that whole camaraderie and, and, you

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  know, giving your teammates hugs after you get, you know, through all the media and coming back to the team center and just like getting all those hugs and, and just the moments that you share with your teammates are really beautiful, incredible moments.

• 1:04:39Rich Roll?

  So you defend your, your 200 breaststroke title and you also break the world record again. So, so in Beijing, you go 220, in London, you go 219. And so it's easy for an outsider to kind of look at that and go, all right, well, four years, you dropped, you know, like half a second or whatever, a second. But what that's, that really doesn't tell the whole story because the sort of other interesting thing that was going on was the, the skin suits got, the, the, the rules changed. And so the super fast suits that everybody was wearing in Beijing were now no longer okay. And I think you cannot,

• 1:05:19Rich Roll?

  you know, this had a massive impact on everybody's times over the next four years. And a lot of people, women and men, you know, couldn't, they couldn't replicate the times they were swimming in 2008 in a, in a, in a traditional suit. And I think in breaststroke, that suit becomes particularly interesting depending upon the kind of stroke that you have. And there were a lot of your competitors that really struggled to match their times once those rules changed. And it seemed like because of your particular,

• 1:05:49Rich Roll?

  Stroke mechanics, the way that your stroke worked and the way that you're very core focused. Like you're not like super heavy on the arms and not super heavy on the legs. Like you have this nice flow or whatever that that it either didn't seem to make that much difference to what you were doing, or maybe it even was played into your into your favor. I don't know, but the fact that you went a second faster, really you actually went quite a bit faster because you were not, you didn't have the benefit of being in that super fast suit. Is that fair? Or am I missing?

• 1:06:19Speaker 01

  Relatively. The suits was an interesting year. So the suits, the suits really came into play in 2009. You know, we still had fancy suits in Beijing, but they weren't quite as extreme as the next year.

• 1:06:31Rich Roll?

  So it was 2009 when they really got crazy?

• 1:06:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's, that's the year that all the world records were taken down. And, and then, you know, then they took away the suits and took us back to a suit that predated Beijing even. So no more leg suits.

• 1:06:47Rich Roll?

  But so in 2009, you were still, you weren't training seriously. So like swimming.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  I was on and off.

• 1:06:51Rich Roll?

  You were kind of.

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I, it wasn't as serious. And I also really hated those suits. And to the point where I, I didn't even try one until the trials for that summer's world. So it was, I swam the morning in probably the 100 breast choke. This was in trials in probably Indianapolis in 2009. And I swam the morning race and I was something like sixth or seventh, which is not really what I like to do. And, you know, the time was fine, but everyone else was just so much faster because they were in suits. And I still was like, I'm, I'm going to make it without the suits, you know, throwing my typical like, I'm doing this without help kind of thing.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  And I was so anti suit and, and mostly because I'd never tried it and I didn't want to try it. And so.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  So, so what happened that year, I went through a little breakdown in between prelims and finals. I thought, I'm not gonna make this team if I don't put on a suit. Like, that's, that's a bad feeling to have. It's like, do I really, are we really at that point where we have to do the next greatest, that you have to jump on board to even be competitive? And so, in between prelims and finals, I got a suit. I got one of the arena suits. They, they were nice enough to like hand one to me and I went and tried it on in the hotel like hot tub for the first time, which that's nowhere to put it on for the first time. And, and so I ended up wearing one that night and I made the team, but I just, I wasn't ready to race in it. I didn't, it changes your body. It changes how you

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  feel. It changes your stroke. It changes everything. And the people that really succeeded that year, yeah, it was because of the suits, but because they learned how to adapt their stroke, their body, their technique. They were really smart about it and I was not. And so, the suit makes you go a lot faster. And I had done great in the 100 brush show. I won that at the Worlds in Rome that summer. And 200 brush show came around. Hey.

• 1:08:49Rich Roll?

  Should we let him out?

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 1:08:51Rich Roll?

  It's okay. Hey dude, just a few more minutes. It's cool.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  Hey Cody. So, the 200 brush show came around. I swam, I swam the morning. Everything went well. Semis went well. Finals came around and I just, I was going so fa, I felt so good. I felt like I was going smooth and easy. I went out in the 100, in the first half of that race and I was, would have medaled in the 100 brush show halfway through, way too fast. But I just felt smooth and easy. And, and before I knew it, the last turn came around and I was like, I'm in trouble. I went out way too fast. I went out way too fast. I was like four or five seconds ahead. I would have broken the world record by like four seconds, right? And it just, it just hit me and it just all, um.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Came spiraling down, the next thing I knew I was like, "Just get to the wall." "I just want to get out of this pool." And I ended up getting like 4th or 5th place. I just stopped moving. And that was just a bad tactics on my part. I didn't take the time and effort to work on it. And so I lost that year. But I was so glad when the suits were banned. You know, all the records went down. But the big discussion when they were gonna ban the suits was, "Well, we're never gonna touch those world records again." But in my head, I was like, "Get rid of them. Get rid of those suits. Get back to the normal suits. Make it even playing field. Make it back to all about you, your body, the athlete, and not what suit they're wearing."

• 1:10:17Rich Roll?

  The sport will catch up.

• 1:10:18Speaker 01

  The sport will catch up.

• 1:10:19Rich Roll?

  And then you look at it now and it's like, it's crazy.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  But if anything, you know, where everyone was saying, "We're never gonna touch those times again." I said, "There's a goal for you. There is my goal. You just set my goal for me. And now that you've put it there, I know it's possible, physically, human possible, and I'm gonna get it." And so...

• 1:10:34Rich Roll?

  So that really helped lock in your sub 220 goal.

• 1:10:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely, definitely. And so that world record, my world record from Beijing, was broken. And I was just, I remember watching that race because it happened in semifinals in the other heat. So I actually watched that race before, after I swam, either way. And I was watching it and I was like, "I don't care if she breaks the world record, but she cannot go under 220. Like, do not let her." And she ended up being a 220.1. And I was like, "Oh, thank goodness." Which is not what someone says after your world record's broken.

• 1:11:07Rich Roll?

  But she was wearing the suit.

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, but I, there was two parts to my goal. Break 220 and be the first woman to do it. Doesn't matter what suit, no asterisks next to it. Like, I want it to be the first. And that was that. And so to get both of those pieces was a really special thing for me.

• 1:11:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, cool. We gotta wrap it up. But I have to ask you one more thing. So it's very interesting that right now, Michael Phelps has dipped his toe back into the pool. And it's all fun and games and it seems very lighthearted. But, you know, it's pretty interesting that he's making this choice, right? Like, he's done everything in the sport. What would compel him to? Keep going, or to step back into it. And so I'm just interested in what you think about what's going on. It's interesting. It's fascinating. Like, I can't wait to see how this story continues to evolve.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  Well, me too. I'm excited to see what happens. I don't know. I mean, I haven't had the chance to talk to him about it, and I would love to, but obviously, I don't want to bother him with asking what everyone else is asking. So, I am interested. I don't know him that well, so I can't tell you for sure. But, I mean, it's exciting to see what he can do. And, obviously, you know, he's older, it's been time, and nobody can really be on top. He can't get another Olympic medal.

• 1:12:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the pressure's kind of off now. Because it's like, hey, man, I can just go have fun, and let me see what I can do. Like, if all he does is say, "I'm just gonna do the Hunter Fly, like, that's the only race I'm gonna do," and just focus on that, and like, as a personal challenge himself, "I wonder if I can make the Olympic team." I wonder if I could, you know.

• 1:12:46Speaker 01

  And that's great. That's great.

• 1:12:48Rich Roll?

  Doesn't matter whether he goes slow or fast.

• 1:12:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. And to, I mean, if you were asking me, what I would do, it would be a different answer. But, like I said, he makes his decisions. And I just think he wants to enjoy the sport a little bit longer, and that's great. He's such an inspiration to athletes, and to have him on the pool deck with those young athletes that are now up and coming, I think that's just gonna keep on motivating people. And I think he's gonna do really well. Obviously, I think he's gonna cut down his, he's not gonna swim eight events.

• 1:13:18Rich Roll?

  No.

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  Because he's not, you know, that would be really hard.

• 1:13:22Rich Roll?

  I mean, to be in his situation, where literally, like, he doesn't have to, you know, he's financially set, like, his life is full with his obligations to sponsors, and foundations, and all of that. And that's a life of meaning and purpose.

• 1:13:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:37Rich Roll?

  So, you know, the discipline and the work that's required, I mean, he looks pretty fit. Like, he doesn't look quite as fit as he does at the Olympics, but like, for a guy who's years out of the sport, and doesn't really have to do anything, is like, he looks pretty good, you know? And that doesn't happen with, for nothing.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:56Rich Roll?

  Like, he's put some work in.

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's definitely driven and motivated. And I don't think he's the type of person that can go half in. So it'll be a great story to watch. I'm excited to watch. I haven't necessarily been, you know, too informed and paying attention, but I know that everyone's really excited about him being back. So that's great. I mean, it brings attention to our sport and that's a wonderful thing and that only progresses the sport. I mean, the guy's done so much for us, for all of us, between him and Missy Franklin. It's just, it's great. And, you know, to have him still be around and still be a force in the sport that made him who he is is just fantastic. I'm really excited to watch and I just, you know, hope that he's enjoying it and doing it for the right reasons. I think so, yeah.

• 1:14:42Rich Roll?

  Well, thanks for coming by.

• 1:14:44Speaker 01

  It's my pleasure.

• 1:14:45Rich Roll?

  You're an inspiration, Rebecca. Can I call you Reb?

• 1:14:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:49Rich Roll?

  All right, Reb. So if people want to connect with you further, you're on Twitter at Reb Sony, R-E-B-S-O-N-I, and you're on Facebook too.

• 1:15:01Speaker 01

  Facebook is the same, Reb Sony, rebsony.com, atlasventures.com. Yeah, it's all Reb Sony.

• 1:15:08Rich Roll?

  It's all there, yeah. You're very integrated in your brand. What's next? Are you going on another road trip?

• 1:15:14Speaker 01

  No, I'm just gonna stay home for a while, enjoy summer at the beach, building the website, business, the company, just figuring out how to keep on pursuing this.

• 1:15:26Rich Roll?

  So if there's coaches out there that are interested in this idea of having you come and speak to their kids through the, what's the best way for them to reach you? Through Atlas Ventures?

• 1:15:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, we have a form on the website and the email's on there and pretty much anywhere, Facebook, Twitter, check them all. So, yeah, if you find me, I'll see you.

• 1:15:51Rich Roll?

  All right, awesome. All right, well, thanks so much.

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:54Rich Roll?

  Cool.

• 1:15:55Speaker 01

  My pleasure.

• 1:15:56Rich Roll?

  Are we good?

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:58Rich Roll?

  Talk about anything else you want to talk about?

• 1:16:00Speaker 01

  I love yoga.

• 1:16:01Rich Roll?

  Okay, good. That's for the next podcast.

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:05Rich Roll?

  All right, peace. Plans.

• 1:16:13Rich Roll?

  All right, everybody. That's our show. How'd you like that? How'd you like that twofer this week? Pretty cool, right? Rebecca's a special girl, and it was great to have her on the show, and I hope you guys enjoyed it. Again, even if you know nothing about swimming, it's hard not to fall in love with her. She's awesome. So, that's it. Before we go, I wanted to mention my course at mindbodygreen.com, The Art of Living with Purpose: How to Set and Achieve Goals, Transform Your Life, and Become Your Best, Most Authentic Self. So, if you tune into this podcast because you're feeling stuck in your life, you're looking for a different way, but you don't know how to find that exit ramp off, or you're just generally stuck and need a kick in the pants, then this course might interest you.

• 1:16:55Rich Roll?

  It's over two hours of streaming video. I've got downloadable tools and resources that address all the essential foundational principles and practices behind every successful sustained life transformation, particularly all the tools that I used to change my life wholesale. And all in all, I think it's a pretty valuable toolbox that contains all the assets required. You need to make the changes in your life necessary to step into becoming that person you always wanted to be and deserve to be, right? So, if this feels right to you, I'm not trying to give anybody a hard sell here, but if it feels right to you, if it resonates with you, then give it a look. Go to mindbodygreen.com. You can find it on the homepage there, and there's a lot more information there about it.

• 1:17:39Rich Roll?

  So, that's it. Thanks, everybody, for telling a friend, for spreading the word, for helping this little project here go somewhat viral. I appreciate that. I appreciate the support, so keep it up. For your Amazon purchases, please continue to use the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com. Click that. Takes you to Amazon. Get whatever you're gonna get. Doesn't cost you anything extra. Amazon kicks us some loose change, and that helps keep the lights on here. It helps me pay Tyler, my son, to produce the show. He's been doing a great job, by the way. It's a lot of work, so you are supporting young entrepreneurialism by using the Amazon banner ad, and thanks, you guys. And, once again, I love it when you guys are Instagramming pictures

• 1:18:23Rich Roll?

  of you guys listening to the show. Keep it up. Tag me at Rich Roll, and continue to spread the love, all right? And that's it. I'll see you guys next week. Peace. Plants. The End of the End of the End of the End of the End of the End of the End of the End of the End of the End of the End of the End of