Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 107: Live At The Revolving Stage at the Celebrity Theatre in Phoenix

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode 107: Live from the Revolving Stage at the Celebrity Theatre in Phoenix. Georgia discussed the “Trunk Murderess” Winnie Ruth Judd and Karen covered the murder of Travis Alexander and conviction of Jodi Arias. Tune in for all-new commentary, case updates and more! Whether you've listened a thousand times or you're new to the show, join the conversation as we look back on our old episodes and discuss the life lessons we’ve learned along the way. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode! Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Now with updated sources and photos: https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. The Exactly Right podcast network provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics, including true crime, comedy, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello.

• 1:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Hello.

• 1:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And welcome.

• 1:50Georgia Hardstark?

  To Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

• 1:52Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the show where we step into the past through our old episodes and emerge from the other side with brand-new feelings, case updates, and more.

• 2:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Today, we're rewinding to episode 107, the much-talked-about episode. It's called "Live at the Revolving Stage at the Celebrity Theater in Phoenix."

• 2:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Legendary. This episode originally came out on February 8, 2018.

• 2:15Georgia Hardstark?

  So let's listen to the intro of episode 107.

• 3:03Georgia Hardstark?

  What's up, Phoenix?

• 3:11Georgia Hardstark?

  This is so confusing.

• 3:15Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know what to do. Where do we go? Where's the front of the stage? What?

• 3:22Georgia Hardstark?

  You talk to them, and I'll talk to them.

• 3:24Karen Kilgariff?

  OK, great. This is my side, hi.

• 3:29Georgia Hardstark?

  This is my side.

• 3:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, we can share.

• 3:35Karen Kilgariff?

  This is, I think by the end of the night, I'm gonna pass out. This is too much. Also, I do not like, there's like full butt side at certain times. There's just nothing you can do. I've been laying on the couch for two years. How does it look?

• 3:52Georgia Hardstark?

  How about this? Let's just talk to each other.

• 3:58Karen Kilgariff?

  This is like some terrible, like, political special on Comedy Central. Let's really act like our opinions matter the most.

• 4:08Georgia Hardstark?

  This is a first.

• 4:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Hi.

• 4:13Georgia Hardstark?

  I can tell my guilt's just kicking in because I just feel really bad for everyone immediately behind me every time I move.

• 4:20Karen Kilgariff?

  I think that's how it's supposed to work.

• 4:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, and now...

• 4:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Constant, oh, are you mad? OK, then are you mad? It's like Thanksgiving.

• 4:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Have you noticed, Karen? We've already started to turn.

• 4:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yo, yeah.

• 4:40Karen Kilgariff?

  I thought my pill was kicking in, but it turns out...

• 4:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's do this. Let's have a moment of silence for one whole rotation.

• 4:50Karen Kilgariff?

  And then...

• 4:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Just can everybody be quiet, please?

• 4:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, this is seizure-inducing.

• 4:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Listen. The first thing that needs to happen is I have to apologize for my hair. For the second night in a row, my hair has gone insane. I can't control it. I didn't bring the proper instruments to get into it and train it. I'm using a very small straightener as a curling iron, which a lot of you know is a huge mistake.

• 5:21Karen Kilgariff?

  You, sir, you know what that's like.

• 5:24Georgia Hardstark?

  It looks good back here.

• 5:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Does it?

• 5:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, that's the part I was worried about. Also, front.

• 5:31Karen Kilgariff?

  You just can't win in show business, so...

• 5:34Georgia Hardstark?

  I did have to, for a live show first, have to lint roll my back.

• 5:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, shit. I didn't even check mine.

• 5:42Georgia Hardstark?

  No, you're good. You're good.

• 5:44Karen Kilgariff?

  I do the thing where I do eyeshadow for like two hours straight, and then they're like, "It's time to go." And I'm like, "But oh." There's so much more than eyeshadow to be taken care of on this thing.

• 5:57Georgia Hardstark?

  How's it, OK. We're still...

• 5:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I'm not sure.

• 6:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Do we do this?

• 6:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Where did we come in?

• 6:05Georgia Hardstark?

  But you're gonna get mad in a minute.

• 6:09Karen Kilgariff?

  We can't be attached to their emotions. We can't. We can't. We just have to come here and do our thing.

• 6:15Georgia Hardstark?

  OK. I kind of love this. I feel like we are only going to have, what is this called? In the round.

• 6:22Karen Kilgariff?

  I feel like we might need to be doing some Sondheim numbers. That's what I would like to be doing. Isn't that what usually goes on in here? There's a lot of this kind of a...

• 6:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Type of shit.

• 6:38Georgia Hardstark?

  You kind of can't not want to do a run-around, high-five-y thing.

• 6:43Karen Kilgariff?

  You can't. I have a sprained ankle, but you take a tip. Take a lap. It'll be fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:52Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm tired.

• 6:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Keep going.

• 6:54Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm already tired.

• 6:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't stop.

• 6:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Why am I doing this?

• 7:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Keep going.

• 7:02Georgia Hardstark?

  I think I hit you guys already.

• 7:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Keep going. You didn't get them. You didn't get them.

• 7:06Georgia Hardstark?

  I got them. Oh, I forgot I also have a bed and a bed.

• 7:10Karen Kilgariff?

  See how many rounds I can make you do? Now they're mad.

• 7:16Georgia Hardstark?

  This reminds me of last night. We were texting each other in the hotel room, which we'll get to after the show, both watching "The Stone Cold Steve Austin." That's what that felt like.

• 7:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep. Broken Skull Camp or whatever. Have you guys seen this? It's on CMT. It's "Stone Cold Steve Austin's..."

• 7:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Like American Ninja Warrior style?

• 7:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, but just with like the hottest men you've ever seen. And they're like, "Stone Cold Steve Austin." Like, "Buddy, are you ready?" And they're like, "Yes, sir." And then they throw a fucking huge log on their shoulder and run straight up a hill. And you're just like, "Yes."

• 7:50Georgia Hardstark?

  And "Stone Cold Steve Austin" is so sweet. He's not like everyone else who's like, "You what?" He's like, "You got this, kiddo. You can do this." There he goes. Wow. It's like so sweet.

• 8:00Karen Kilgariff?

  We were in, of course, separate rooms last night. It would be cute if we were in the same room. But we're adults.

• 8:09Karen Kilgariff?

  But we do these shows, and then we go, we immediately go back to our hotel and like lay in bed with our eyes open, like, "Oh, there's so much adrenaline. What just happened?" And then we watch terrible TV. So I texted her, and I was like, "Please tell me you're watching Steve Austin's Broken Skull Camp," or whatever the fucking name of the show is. And then they turned it on, and I got so into it. My favorite contestant, his name was Mac. He ended up winning. Thank you.

• 8:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Spoiler alert.

• 8:38Karen Kilgariff?

  And he was clearly, I think, in the military, very used to being yelled at by a Stone Cold Steve Austin-style-voiced man. And he would be in the middle. And I mean, the challenges they'd have to do is like basically scale the face of a building with no help. Like insane thing.

• 8:59Georgia Hardstark?

  With their shirt off, too.

• 9:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. But this guy would be in the middle of doing this thing, like climb a wall of tires or whatever. And "Stone Cold Steve Austin" would be standing on the side going, "You got this, buddy. You got this, Mac." And then the guy, as he's climbing, he's like, "Thank you." He said, "Thank you." Every time Steve Austin encouraged him.

• 9:22Georgia Hardstark?

  He definitely had like, when they were like, "Mac, you ready?" And he was just like, "Doo doo doo." Absolutely. And you're like, "Oh, my God. Someone raised you well." That's nice. For once. Not him, but people.

• 9:33Karen Kilgariff?

  He's just so positive about obstacle courses. It was just, I don't know. It's inspiring, and we'd love you guys to watch it.

• 9:40Georgia Hardstark?

  So we have the Stone Cold Steve Austin Ranch here for Karen to try. We were talking about how long we would have lasted. Based on my lap around here, I'm winded.

• 9:52Karen Kilgariff?

  That's stage one on Broken Skull Camp. You have to do a circle high five.

• 9:56Georgia Hardstark?

  And you said, "Three days later, we would just be sitting there. You'd be smoking cigarettes on one of the obstacle courses."

• 10:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, 100%. I would have gone there early and hidden them around the obstacle course.

• 10:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Why are we talking about a different TV show?

• 10:13Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know.

• 10:16Georgia Hardstark?

  We don't have a TV show.

• 10:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Anyhow, this is, it is, there's a little bit of like

• 10:27Karen Kilgariff?

  "Look at us, we're at the disco" feel to this in a way that I've never participated in. And it's very foreign to me.

• 10:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 10:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, "Hey, what's up?"

• 10:39Georgia Hardstark?

  I feel like we're supposed to be doing like a silent play, like a...

• 10:44Karen Kilgariff?

  One-on-one, where we have this like, you know, it's like a, "So tell me about the night of the..."

• 10:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, you're questioning me? Yeah, yeah. Walking around the room? And then I'd also walk around the room, being questioned? That'd be fun. Usually, the person being questioned sits. Yes. I fucking get up and walk too. Let's see, let me answer your question, detective.

• 11:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I insulted our cab driver today really bad. Yeah. Well, he started it, though. He started it. He fully started it himself. Listen. Look. He...

• 11:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? That's the first one. Ten more, and you win $10.

• 11:27Karen Kilgariff?

  He was really sweet, though. But he fucking started it. He goes, he's like, "What are you guys doing in town?" And our answer, it's really easy. It's easier than explaining this fucking thing. You just go, "Oh, we're doing a comedy show." Yeah. Because then you don't have to get into... Explaining to old people what podcasts are. No offense, and young people. A lot of people have no idea what that little purple button on their phone is for. Just don't, they never looked at it. That or explaining how you love murder, but you don't love murder. Right. So you're just, "We're doing a comedy show." And he was like, "Oh, great." No cab ride is long enough for that explanation. Just like, "Can you go around the block again? I just want to talk to you about when I was little. I saw this book."

• 12:10Karen Kilgariff?

  And he goes, "Oh, which one of you ladies are funnier?" "Wha... Yeah, see?" I see silence in the cab. I mean, dead fucking silent. Absence of sound in the cab. Like, our therapist should have hologrammed us.

• 12:26Karen Kilgariff?

  There's no good answer for this. This is actually a real issue that you've brought up, psychic asshole cab driver. Good job. But it's not. Like, clearly, we don't give a shit. But it's like, how the fuck do you answer that? You either sound like you're like, "I'll let Karen be the funnier one, and I'll say Karen." No, it's definitely her. We're just both being phony. We would both have gone, "It's me." But that's impolite, right? Oh, of ourselves? It's me. Oh, as a joke, yeah. It's me. It's me. But instead, Georgia solved this problem. Which of you two ladies are, that's what he said? Ladies are funnier? And there's dead silence, and I go, "What did I say? I think it's you, sir."

• 13:06Karen Kilgariff?

  She fucking slammed the cab driver into the ground emotionally. Practically chipped his fucking tooth. He was like, "Whoa, sorry, sorry, everybody, me too." He really sounded, I'm not a lady. Like, he really sounded bummed. He was bummed out.

• 13:26Karen Kilgariff?

  And then, but I said, well, because he, of course, when you say you're here to do a comedy show, he made a joke about, "Oh, I'll pull over, and you guys can get out and do a comedy show for me." And we're like, "Ha, ha, ha, ha, keep fucking driving."

• 13:39Karen Kilgariff?

  So then, after Georgia said that, and of course, she and I start fucking cackling like assholes.

• 13:45Karen Kilgariff?

  And then I go, "See, there's your comedy show for you, right there."

• 13:50Karen Kilgariff?

  He was like, "Oh, your hotel's right here." Yeah. He got us. Get out. He did not help us with our bags. No, that's right, he didn't. No. And he told me I'm disinvited to Christmas this year. Damn it.

• 14:05Karen Kilgariff?

  So the room is spinning.

• 14:08Karen Kilgariff?

  The room is spinning, and...

• 14:11Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, okay. Yep.

• 14:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Thanks, no. We're so excited to be here with you guys.

• 14:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you for waiting for so long.

• 14:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 14:29Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the first. What? What? Just tell me.

• 14:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I sprained my ankle. Do you want me to tell that story? Please tell everyone why you couldn't. This is the saddest thing in the world, because we're now, so when we're on tour, we just have to, we're just constantly walking places, dragging suitcases with us. That's just all we do. Then we do shows, and then we go drag suitcases some more. And I am putting such a cramp in our airport speed style, because I'm like, and I'm trying to be kind of chill about it. It's not like, I sprained it last Sunday, so it's definitely getting better, but it, every once in a while, it just hurts like fuck. So then you don't want to get into the realm where it might, you might go that direction. So I just am a little bit like... A little faster than you really... It looks like I'm trying to just constantly say, "Excuse, oh, excuse me, sir." But I'm not.

• 15:22Karen Kilgariff?

  I would have the highest of stilettos on right now. Oh, you know she would. You know me, and how much I love my melonics, or whatever.

• 15:32Karen Kilgariff?

  That's kind of her thing. Jimmy, cheers!

• 15:37Karen Kilgariff?

  We were, I can't remember which show we were working on, but I said, it was some shitty show, like, it was a pilot for E. And of course, you've all seen E for at least seven minutes. You know what they're doing over there. And so, they kept bouncing back all our ideas. They were just like, "That's too weird, we don't understand it, what's this comedy," or whatever. And finally, I typed up a whole idea that was called "Shoes, Shoes, Shoe, Shoe, Shoes."

• 16:04Karen Kilgariff?

  They didn't like it. I thought you were gonna say, "And they gave me a million dollars to make it." I'm Kim Kardashian, everybody. I didn't, I know so little. I don't know if I told you this. These are like fucking Target shoes. Yeah. Oh, wait a second. Why don't you do the whole outfit? And let's see the specialty item on that dress. Oh, fuck! Yeah!

• 16:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Did I throw those... You threw the mic. There's a sound guy that's fucking livid right now. Sorry. Beyond livid. I'm so sorry. He brought these from home. Also, watching a person run in a circle with their hands in their pockets is insanity. I don't think I've ever seen that in my life. It was really fun. It was, "Go again!" No. Well, we have three more running in circles for the show. Oh, okay, great. So we're gonna save them. Yes, save them for the middle and then second half. Right, right, right, great. What about you? Do you want to talk about your outfit? Oh, Target, $29.99. I can't be bothered. I can't be bothered. Unzips to the belly button.

• 17:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Unzips to where I want it to go. Right.

• 17:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Oh, wait. This is my favorite murder of the podcast.

• 17:35Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Karen Kilgariff, everyone. That's Georgia Hardstark.

• 17:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 17:45Karen Kilgariff?

  In moments like that, I just love to picture the people who work here, who are like, "What the fuck is going on?"

• 17:52Karen Kilgariff?

  What is wrong with these? Who and why? Where? There's a mean to cab drivers all the time? Who cares about your cab ride and your shoes?

• 18:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Steven's not here, though. Oh, yeah, sorry about that. Steven, Steven's under the stage, cranking it around. He's carrying it in a circle? They said, "No, no, no, we have a whole machine for that." And we're like, "Take it out." And Steven's gonna do it. He's gonna push it.

• 18:22Karen Kilgariff?

  He's got three cats behind him, whipping him.

• 18:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Sweat dripping off his mustache. Just, he can barely record.

• 18:34Karen Kilgariff?

  His headphones are so cumbersome, but we are like, "Leave them on!" We passed a booth at the airport today, and it was, it had all these headphones, and one of them were headphones that had cat ears on top of the headphones. Was it you or Vince that were like, "We should get those for Steven and force him to wear them while we record?" Just like, "Well, sorry, part of your job is now you have to dress like a cat around us." Sorry. It's only maybe my cats will like you. It's my new thing. If you don't like it, talk to HR.

• 19:05Karen Kilgariff?

  That's us.

• 19:07Karen Kilgariff?

  There is no HR.

• 19:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Should we? No, I wasn't gonna say sit down. You weren't? Do you want me to? I don't know what I want anymore. I don't want to make you guys hate us, but these hotel rooms last night that we stayed in... Oh, shit. We're gonna keep talking about them. Dude, for the rest of the show. We stayed at a casino, and for some reason, they didn't, must not have known who we were.

• 19:36Georgia Hardstark?

  And that what we'll accept is very low. Because they put us.

• 19:41Karen Kilgariff?

  They thought we were two Celine Dion's. Because they put us in these suites.

• 19:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Karen goes, we're all walking down the hallway together and Vince and I, like Karen goes in and Vince and I keep walking and we hear her go, "Holy shit." And it like echoed and we're like, "What's going on?"

• 19:58Karen Kilgariff?

  It was like, there was so much marble in one room. I was like, "Is this the Taj Mahal?" Because, oh my god. Uh, four TVs.

• 20:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Four bathrooms.

• 20:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Two bedrooms.

• 20:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Heated seats.

• 20:13Karen Kilgariff?

  There's. On the toilets?

• 20:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Everyone, toilet seats is what I meant. Where else do you sit in that house? Am I wrong?

• 20:22Karen Kilgariff?

  I actually, I'll admit, I just would go in and sit on that toilet. Heated seats and bidet that you could just adjust as you were sitting there. Where I was like, in countries where bidets are normal, how do people ever get off these fucking things? I'm sorry, but they're great. I mean, they're so great.

• 20:40Georgia Hardstark?

  They're great. And they had, okay, this is inappropriate. They had also a front bidet. I texted you, it was a pussy bidet.

• 20:51Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. You're allowed to say it. It's 2018.

• 20:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Then I got stuck.

• 20:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? And put on your little hat and sit on the bidet?

• 21:01Georgia Hardstark?

  All last night I was singing, "She wore a pussy bidet in my head." And I was like, "Georgia, what is wrong with you?" And now I'm singing it on a circular stage.

• 21:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, to paying customers. I hope there's like not an old couple here who has like season tickets to this theater. I'm scared, so scared. If that's true, this is a true crime, crime, uh-oh. This is a true crime comedy podcast.

• 21:33Georgia Hardstark?

  How does that work, Karen?

• 21:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, thanks. Yeah.

• 21:39Georgia Hardstark?

  You don't get to pick one of those things. They've come together.

• 21:42Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. Uh, you, it's not your choice. We can't help it. And if you don't like it, get the fuck out. That's usually what we say. That's, it's rude. It's rude, but it's what we usually say to everybody. As a, you know, as a warm-up hello.

• 22:01Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, to get the crowd on our side.

• 22:03Karen Kilgariff?

  We ask people to leave.

• 22:05Georgia Hardstark?

  And then we cackle into the microphone. Okay. Oh, that's not, uh-oh. Oh, oh no.

• 22:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Are you kidding me?

• 22:12Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I saw it.

• 22:14Karen Kilgariff?

  I know what you do. This is mayhem. This is mayhem.

• 22:19Georgia Hardstark?

  And whose water is whose?

• 22:21Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 22:21Georgia Hardstark?

  I think this is mine?

• 22:22Karen Kilgariff?

  I've only taken a sip of mine.

• 22:24Georgia Hardstark?

  I keep drinking your drinks.

• 22:26Karen Kilgariff?

  This is by mine.

• 22:27Georgia Hardstark?

  I think.

• 22:28Karen Kilgariff?

  No, this is my, near my paper.

• 22:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Hmm, okay.

• 22:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Shit, we should have rehearsed this. I'm so sorry, you guys. I'm so sorry. We both missed rehearsal.

• 22:37Georgia Hardstark?

  This is the dress rehearsal, right?

• 22:38Karen Kilgariff?

  This is dress. This is tech dress. And then tomorrow night is the full show.

• 22:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, great. All right.

• 22:44Karen Kilgariff?

  When I do my hair with an actual curling iron.

• 22:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's sit down.

• 22:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. It's sit-down time.

• 22:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Currently, oh, I guess that makes sense if we face each, well.

• 22:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Face in?

• 22:57Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm getting a little nauseous, seasick, so this is a perfect time to sit down.

• 23:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, I love this rug. I've gotta say.

• 23:04Georgia Hardstark?

  This what?

• 23:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Normally we have, normally we have kind of like a rug.

• 23:10Georgia Hardstark?

  A beige rug.

• 23:12Karen Kilgariff?

  A beige rug or a oriental rug that looks like someone spent their last $40 at Pier 1. But this, do you have Pier 1 here? It's a wonderful store if you don't. Wonderful old European shipped-in cookies that are from like seven years ago. They're on sale. Anyway, I love a pop of color in the middle of a rotating stage.

• 23:36Georgia Hardstark?

  I do love it. So everyone knows where to focus their eyeballs.

• 23:40Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 23:45Karen Kilgariff?

  And we're back. One of the great memories of this experience for me was that show.

• 23:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Definitely. I loved it. I love like, when there's a theater of something you can talk about and turn back to and point to and make fun of, it's like, not make fun of, but just like, we're all in on this weird joke.

• 24:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 24:02Georgia Hardstark?

  It's the best.

• 24:03Karen Kilgariff?

  It was just an amazing, like to walk down the entryway into the audience, learning that the stage would be revolving was so hilariously surreal.

• 24:18Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, it was perfect for us because it was just so silly and there were so many like gags. I like, I can't believe we just didn't do that the entire show.

• 24:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. I mean, it was, it was hard not to. It was insanity. I think we've already talked about it. We've, we've rewound to this memory about 800 times, I would say.

• 24:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Did you know that Nate Bargatze and Tom Segura both recorded their specials there?

• 24:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 24:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Way after us, of course.

• 24:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Yeah. It's a famous, I think it's a famous one for comics. I think it's always fun for comics to play in a room like that. It's like, you're so connected.

• 24:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 24:55Karen Kilgariff?

  But also it's like something from the 60s.

• 24:57Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so cool.

• 24:58Karen Kilgariff?

  You're doing your show on a lazy Susan. Who doesn't want to do that?

• 25:03Georgia Hardstark?

  I was reading about how, how much you slow Vince and I down at the airport. Because you had, we had like twisted your ankle really fucked up. Did you see that couples are now having airport divorces, they're calling them? Where you get to the airport and you're like, "I'll meet you at the gate." Because everyone wants to do something different. But I want to take a step farther and be like, "You leave the house whenever the fuck you want to." Because Vince is an early guy. I'm a late girl.

• 25:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Only now does all of that logic make so much more sense to me. When it's like, oh, we have to get there and we have to do, we have to walk out on time. And that kind of pressure that people like Vince, like they're responsible, that is the job. So it's like that thing where, you know, yeah, nobody wants to be on the 7 a.m. flight until you get out and no one else does at 2 p.m.

• 25:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 25:54Karen Kilgariff?

  When everything gets shut down. That's happened a bunch of times where you guys have gotten out, right?

• 25:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Where we, yeah, where we beat the weather, for sure. I mean, I, yeah, we're very much like, what's the earliest we can leave? But how many flights have you missed in your life? I know you missed like, I think you only missed one on our entire tours.

• 26:12Karen Kilgariff?

  And, and it was only two, it was either Seattle or Portland. I can't remember. It was a close.

• 26:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 26:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, but in my life, I've, I'd say around five.

• 26:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 26:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 26:23Georgia Hardstark?

  I think we should ask listeners, like, what's your, people who have more than 10, email us, what's your problem?

• 26:31Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. We're the type B friends. Have you seen those videos, the type B friend guy?

• 26:35Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 26:36Karen Kilgariff?

  I will send it to you right now. It's my favorite and it's so true where it's like, there's the people who are like, he basically is.

• 26:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Say it, it's me, type A.

• 26:45Karen Kilgariff?

  He's driving, well, like he's the one that picks the friend up in the car.

• 26:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 26:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And then he's like, "Oh my god, I can't wait for this vacation. Did you already get your plane tickets?" Like stuff like that. But then he's like, "Oh my god, I just found $500." Like just one of those weird, the people who are just like writing on life and expecting it to work. Which is not completely me because I am absolutely like, have my own anxieties and control stuff. But when it comes to traveling, it's always like, this is going to be a nightmare no matter what.

• 27:13Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like, it's none of my business. Like whatever happens, I'm going with someone else. They know who they're going with. It's none of my business.

• 27:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, exactly.

• 27:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it is nice. It is nice.

• 27:24Karen Kilgariff?

  To rely on somebody else to be, because that's what my sister's always done for me because I've always had the time issue.

• 27:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 27:30Karen Kilgariff?

  So it's always like 15 minutes and you have to leave this bathroom. It's like, okay. And then I just go in, eyeliner, eyeliner.

• 27:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Why did you start the eyeliner? Because I had 15 minutes.

• 27:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Why have you been doing the eyeliner for 35 minutes? I don't know.

• 27:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god, amazing. Um, should we get into our stories? This is the one I'll never forget it. I actually was thinking about it the other day. I, I couldn't remember the name for thigh. So I called it her upper leg.

• 27:59Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. That's right.

• 28:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, everyone, you're gonna hear me call, it's just gonna be ridiculous. I love, I love that moment.

• 28:07Karen Kilgariff?

  That was pretty major. Okay, this is Georgia's story about Winnie Ruth Judd.

• 28:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, I'm going first.

• 28:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's right.

• 28:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Right?

• 28:22Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right, that's right. Georgia goes first.

• 28:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. Alright.

• 28:29Georgia Hardstark?

  This...

• 28:30Karen Kilgariff?

  What if this controlled the stage? Like, a weird bus steering wheel.

• 28:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Ah, and I wanna go the opposite way!

• 28:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Teacups!

• 28:40Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 28:41Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like the teacups.

• 28:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Teacups!

• 28:42Karen Kilgariff?

  But really slow. And with microphones.

• 28:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, Phoenix, this is your... Your trunk murders.

• 28:53Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know the trunk murders.

• 28:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Alright. I'm trying to remember what photos I... There she is!

• 28:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh!

• 29:00Georgia Hardstark?

  That works!

• 29:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Solved it!

• 29:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. So that... That is your friend Winnie Ruth McKinnell. Uh, she goes by Ruth.

• 29:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Ah, sorry, I don't...

• 29:09Georgia Hardstark?

  A lot of nicknames. Nicknames in this one.

• 29:12Karen Kilgariff?

  I gotta take a look at Winnie.

• 29:13Georgia Hardstark?

  What if she just fucking asks her teacups off the stage?

• 29:18Karen Kilgariff?

  I sprained my other ankle! Come on! She's doing it for attention!

• 29:25Karen Kilgariff?

  She has a nice finger wave, am I wrong?

• 29:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, you are right.

• 29:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. Is she the bad one?

• 29:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, she is. Maybe.

• 29:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh!

• 29:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Or maybe not.

• 29:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Spoiler alert!

• 29:37Georgia Hardstark?

  You just said that with so much anger.

• 29:39Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. Norly, norly, I hate everything.

• 29:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, she's born January 29th, 1905, in Indiana. She moves to Phoenix as an adult after marrying a dude who I'm never gonna mention again.

• 29:54Georgia Hardstark?

  What? Oh, he's a physician, spent a lot of time on the road, and also on morphine.

• 29:58Karen Kilgariff?

  You said you weren't gonna mention anything about him.

• 30:00Georgia Hardstark?

  That's all... Again.

• 30:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, he spent time on the road and on morphine?

• 30:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep.

• 30:05Karen Kilgariff?

  I stepped on your joke, I'm sorry!

• 30:08Georgia Hardstark?

  So, at 26 years old, our friend Ruth here takes a job as a medical secretary in a Phoenix clinic to support herself. At this time, she meets a friend named John J. Halloran, whose nickname is Happy Jack.

• 30:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I wanted to guess.

• 30:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, sorry.

• 30:30Karen Kilgariff?

  I was gonna say Jinkies, I don't know why.

• 30:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Nope, it's Happy Jack.

• 30:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Happy Jack Halloran?

• 30:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh-huh.

• 30:35Karen Kilgariff?

  So that means he's a drunk, right?

• 30:38Georgia Hardstark?

  He's a 44-year-old, well-to-do Phoenix businessman. He's like, in the political and social circles, he's like, well-known dude. He's married, but that doesn't stop him from getting laid by other women!

• 30:53Georgia Hardstark?

  He's, um... So Ruth and Happy Jack become friendly, they start hooking up. Also, she meets at work a woman named Agnes Anne Leroy. She's a 32-year-old x-ray technician who worked at the clinic. And her roommate, 24-year-old Hedvig Samuelson.

• 31:13Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, these are some old fucking fashion names. Who's named Agnes anymore?

• 31:19Georgia Hardstark?

  I hope someone.

• 31:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Some... Someone asshole in LA named their child that, like... There's a four-year-old running around.

• 31:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Someone, yeah.

• 31:28Karen Kilgariff?

  In Whole Foods.

• 31:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Aggie, don't touch the kale!

• 31:31Karen Kilgariff?

  What did mommy ta... What did mommy tell you about the fresh salmon?

• 31:38Georgia Hardstark?

  We only eat organic, Aggie! Okay, she... Unfortunately, Hedvig is going by Sammy, so unfortunately, we don't have that name in our lives.

• 31:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 31:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Anymore.

• 31:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 31:47Georgia Hardstark?

  I think we have a photo of Happy Jack. There he is.

• 31:53Karen Kilgariff?

  He seems like a hoot!

• 31:57Georgia Hardstark?

  What's up, Jackie boy? That's a... That's a oval cranium.

• 32:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Isn't it?

• 32:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Back then, I was... That was an insane slam. You, sir, have an oval cranium. Good day! I said, "good day."

• 32:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Thoughts, feelings?

• 32:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I just had... I just thought of last night, we did a story last night where there... It was the Binion's murder, um, in Las Vegas. There was somebody in the story, I can't remember who it was, who referred to having sex as laying pipe.

• 32:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. That's true.

• 32:36Karen Kilgariff?

  It wasn't us, it was someone truly...

• 32:38Georgia Hardstark?

  It was a direct quote.

• 32:39Karen Kilgariff?

  It was a Wikipedia rip.

• 32:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Rips from the Wikipedia.

• 32:44Karen Kilgariff?

  So I was just gonna say, but it's a... It's an old reference that some people wouldn't get, which is, "that guy lays pipe?"

• 32:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Apparently, tons of pipe.

• 32:55Karen Kilgariff?

  So much pipe.

• 32:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. I mean...

• 32:59Karen Kilgariff?

  He's like the Department of Energy, that guy. Fucking laying...

• 33:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Pipe.

• 33:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, so Agnes and Sammy are also friendly with our happy friend, and they all become friends. Ruth even moves in with the two women for a couple of months in 1931. They are all, like, kind of obsessed with Happy Jack. Financially and emotionally. I don't know, man, he took care of them somehow. He gave... He fed needs that, I guess, a physician and morphine addict husband can't fulfill.

• 33:33Karen Kilgariff?

  He'd check their pulse, but really slow. Stuff like that.

• 33:38Georgia Hardstark?

  So, okay, and then, um, they were... But they were all super defensive for Jack's attention. I don't know.

• 33:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, okay.

• 33:45Georgia Hardstark?

  They all loved him. So unfortunately, I wrote, "The women weren't as woke as we are today, so differences developed" between Ruth and the other two women. A guy... I guess it was jealousy over Happy... I wrote, this is so stupid. "Reported to be jealousy over Happy Jack's Happy Jack." That doesn't make any sense! That's stupid.

• 34:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Stupid! Cut that out.

• 34:15Karen Kilgariff?

  If it's there, you gotta say it.

• 34:16Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, I wrote it, like, and I left it in after, like, 17 rereads.

• 34:20Karen Kilgariff?

  You believed in it!

• 34:21Georgia Hardstark?

  I clearly had some fucking thing in my mind.

• 34:23Karen Kilgariff?

  You liked it until you were in the round.

• 34:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 34:26Karen Kilgariff?

  And then it got scary.

• 34:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, but I felt like I needed to be honest. Okay, soon, so fucking Ruth got the fuck out of there, moved out into her... Back in her own apartment, um, close by.

• 34:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Really quick clarification.

• 34:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 34:39Karen Kilgariff?

  They were all fucking Happy Jack?

• 34:41Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know. It's really hard to tell, like... I think Ruth definitely was fucking Happy Jack, I think. Okay?

• 34:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And maybe somebody else?

• 34:50Georgia Hardstark?

  And maybe they were... Others were in love. Maybe these two women were in a relationship together, it's kinda hard to tell.

• 34:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, okay.

• 34:56Georgia Hardstark?

  So we don't really know.

• 34:57Karen Kilgariff?

  It's all very vague, and it's like, "good close friends," stuff like that.

• 35:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly.

• 35:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 35:01Georgia Hardstark?

  I think there's a photo of the two ladies as well.

• 35:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Lifelong roommates. Oh, yes. There's the lifelong roommates.

• 35:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Agnes Anne Leroy and Sarah Hedvig Sammy. So Agnes and... Anne and Sammy are their names. Like, Agnes and Hedvig, come on!

• 35:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Come on, you guys!

• 35:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Those are the best names. Okay. Boop, boop, boop, doo, doo, doo, doo. Okay. They're not as woke. Everyone leaves, okay.

• 35:25Georgia Hardstark?

  That's not true. Ruth leaves, okay. But I guess they're all still friends. So here's the story of the murder, according to police and prosecutors. It's this. On the night of October 16th, 1931, Agnes and Sammy, the roomies, um, have a heated argument with Ruth over Happy Jack's affection. And then, I read all these other articles, and it could also have been over... They were eating rice pudding, maybe it was about the rice pudding. I don't know. It's really hard to tell.

• 35:55Karen Kilgariff?

  All we know is there was a fight about a thing.

• 35:58Georgia Hardstark?

  And there was rice pudding.

• 35:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, for real?

• 36:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 36:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh!

• 36:01Georgia Hardstark?

  They were eating rice... That's all we know!

• 36:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Was this on a recipe website? They got this far? Stir in three tablespoons of murder hate.

• 36:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, so they all get in a fight. Ruth fucking grabs a gun, I guess it was her gun that she had left behind, for some reason, and they start fighting, and Ruth shoots Agnes and Sammy with a 25-caliber handgun in the... They're in the bungalow. She fucking kills both of those ladies, right there.

• 36:36Karen Kilgariff?

  The way... You said she shot them in the bungalow?

• 36:38Georgia Hardstark?

  I knew that would be weird!

• 36:40Karen Kilgariff?

  That was an old-fashioned way to say it.

• 36:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Right in the bungalow! Right in the old...

• 36:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Right in the front door of the bungalow!

• 36:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. So then, Ruth and... And maybe an accomplice dismember the body of Sammy and... Okay, it gets gross. Puts her head, torso, and lower legs into a black shipping trunk, and Sammy's upper legs in a beige valise and hat box. So this fucking little...

• 37:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Did you just call her arms her upper legs?

• 37:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Because that's rad.

• 37:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Did you?

• 37:23Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 37:26Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 37:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, her, you s- other legs?

• 37:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Upper legs. Thighs. I copied and pasted.

• 37:34Karen Kilgariff?

  You have got to perrefrain. Her upper legs.

• 37:41Karen Kilgariff?

  You know how you have your legs, but then if you pull on them, more leg comes out? Okay, that the extra leg was in the other trunk.

• 37:50Georgia Hardstark?

  I wish I had called arms, upper legs, so bad. I'm so mad that I didn't do that.

• 37:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Next time.

• 37:57Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm crying.

• 38:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't cry in the round.

• 38:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, good, good lord. There's no crying in the round.

• 38:05Karen Kilgariff?

  My lie. There's no crying in the round.

• 38:10Georgia Hardstark?

  No, it was her upper legs, so. How about, who wrote this? It wasn't me.

• 38:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Her head, torso, and lower legs, and then her upper legs, and yeah, where the fuck is the rest of her body?

• 38:25Karen Kilgariff?

  There's not a ton of body left after that. Neck?

• 38:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Where's the neck?

• 38:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Where did they put that fucking neck?

• 38:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen, I want to know.

• 38:35Karen Kilgariff?

  We are professionals.

• 38:38Georgia Hardstark?

  I can't tell you how badly, there's two microphones on the ground right there, like for the hometown, and I just want to lay down and start telling my story in one of them. It's so bad.

• 38:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Just take a rest, you can. Stretch your upper legs out and just take a rest. You got to. Take some mute time.

• 38:58Georgia Hardstark?

  We are on the first page of this.

• 39:01Karen Kilgariff?

  We just fucking started.

• 39:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, the, like, the, the people working here are texting their honeys, like, "It's gonna be a long night, baby."

• 39:07Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm not. I'm not gonna get home by 3:30.

• 39:10Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm not gonna make it.

• 39:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry.

• 39:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Sorry. There's just these two fucking women. You know. Da, da, da, da, da. Okay, everything's, okay, and then Ag- and then Agnes's body, I feel like Ruth, after dismembering Sammy's body, is like, "Fuck this shit," and she puts Agnes's whole body into a second black shipping trunk.

• 39:30Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, it's hard to get a bunch of stuff done at once, anyway.

• 39:35Georgia Hardstark?

  It had to be, like, the, it had, there had to be an accomplice, right? She's like a little thing, and she's dismembering, I got, mm, I don't know.

• 39:43Karen Kilgariff?

  By herself?

• 39:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 39:44Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I would hope so, just for the impact alone of just, I mean.

• 39:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Probably not, okay.

• 39:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry, we lost you, didn't we?

• 39:53Georgia Hardstark?

  So maybe Happy Jack was there, right?

• 39:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Sure.

• 39:56Georgia Hardstark?

  So two days later, so the bodies are in the thing, two days later, on Sunday, October 18th, 1931, Ruth, whose left hand was bandaged from apparently a gunshot wound sustained during the fight, so she's got a fucking bullet in her hand, and she discovered the bodies? No, that doesn't make any sense.

• 40:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's a little crazy. It would take forever, it, just going on how long it takes me to get around the airport, it would take a really fucking long time to dismember a body with a shot hand. I also like the idea, that happened in the house?

• 40:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 40:26Karen Kilgariff?

  It was just like gunfight in the house?

• 40:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 40:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 40:29Georgia Hardstark?

  It's still, the house still stands.

• 40:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Is this true?

• 40:31Georgia Hardstark?

  After party in the, yes.

• 40:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Get on the bus. Let's drive to a house and then just drive away, because you can't go inside.

• 40:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Someone lives there, they're like raising children and they have a life, and they don't want you there. Da, da, da, okay, so, with her hand and her luggage, she boards a train from Phoenix to, um, Los Angeles. She gets to Los Angeles the next morning, the baggage agent at the train is like, "Why the fuck are there fluids escaping these baggages?" And, oh my god, it also stinks. That is not a direct quote, I wrote that.

• 41:08Karen Kilgariff?

  You are taking real liberties with this story.

• 41:11Georgia Hardstark?

  I am paraphrasing.

• 41:12Karen Kilgariff?

  So sorry, the trunks arrive in LA and there's fluid coming out of them?

• 41:17Georgia Hardstark?

  And they smell.

• 41:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Not cool.

• 41:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Because it's been three or four days now. So he's like, "I'm gonna tag these and move these aside."

• 41:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Good call.

• 41:25Georgia Hardstark?

  He asks Ruth for the key, and she's like, "I don't have it, bye." And so her brother picks her up, and she, um, disappears. Her brother doesn't know anything about the crimes, uh, and leaves the trunks behind. Later that day, police came to the train station to check out the trunks, they crack the lock, and they discover the bodies. There is a photo of it online, don't worry, I didn't post it, I don't know if it's real, it looks real.

• 41:50Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's them looking into a trunk with a dead body inside it?

• 41:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, sh- it's just the body. It's fucked up. Okay, I have seen some things.

• 41:58Karen Kilgariff?

  This was back when the police, when a crime would happen, someone would be murdered, right? And then they're laying there dead, and then the police would gather round, and then it'd be like, "Oh, wait, sorry, hey, reporters, get in here, we're investigating a crime. Come on."

• 42:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Let me, hold on, let me look smart.

• 42:16Georgia Hardstark?

  I think we have a photo of the trunks, though, and don't worry, I don't think the bodies are, yeah, there they are.

• 42:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 42:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Ooh, they look old timey.

• 42:24Karen Kilgariff?

  They look like something that'd be on sale at a store in Beverly for like $4,000.

• 42:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, totally. Yeah.

• 42:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Fucking LA.

• 42:31Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's like, repurposed trunks. For $4,000? Fuck everything, okay.

• 42:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 42:39Georgia Hardstark?

  So, they're like, "Oh shit, they found the bodies." Okay, but, so after leaving the station, Ruth hid out for several days, still with a fucking bullet in her hand, it's now turning, uh, into gangrene.

• 42:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Sure.

• 42:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, and she then finally is like, "This isn't working," surrenders to the police on October 23rd, 1931.

• 43:00Karen Kilgariff?

  This isn't working. As she like tries to take a handful of grapes or whatever, and they just keep falling through the hole. This is insane. I can't live like this anymore. 911, what's your emergency?

• 43:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, okay, I need grapes. I'm starving for grapes. The murder is like crazy headlines across the country, they call her the Tiger Woman and the Blonde Butcher, and eventually, the case comes to be known as the Trunk Murders, and she's the Trunk Murderess. Here's a photo of her when she turned herself in. How fucking glamorous.

• 43:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh my god.

• 43:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Is this real? It looks like the remake in the 70s of her, doesn't it? Can you see it? Go see it.

• 43:48Karen Kilgariff?

  I can see it, but also.

• 43:49Georgia Hardstark?

  You don't have to get up.

• 43:50Karen Kilgariff?

  From here, it, uh, it's, it's okay.

• 43:54Karen Kilgariff?

  From here, it looks like her head is so much bigger than her body, that it looks like one of those illustrations you get at Disneyland where you're like, "I like skateboarding and horses," or whatever, and then your head is like this, and your body's this big, skateboarding? Anyway, hold on.

• 44:08Georgia Hardstark?

  This is weird. I don't, I want to watch you watch.

• 44:11Karen Kilgariff?

  I have to get Lasik.

• 44:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's do it right now.

• 44:15Karen Kilgariff?

  That's, first of all, does she have a fox stole on her shoulder?

• 44:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, because she fucking stole that fox stole.

• 44:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, she did.

• 44:22Georgia Hardstark?

  From like, this like place she went to to hide out.

• 44:25Karen Kilgariff?

  That's, for real?

• 44:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 44:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's factual?

• 44:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 44:28Karen Kilgariff?

  That sounded like total bullshit.

• 44:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, I blame the one article I read that in, then.

• 44:35Karen Kilgariff?

  On UpperLegs.com?

• 44:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Upper Legs!

• 44:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Upper Legs!

• 44:40Georgia Hardstark?

  God damn it, okay.

• 44:46Karen Kilgariff?

  So that's her showing up at the police station, like, "Oh, I did it."

• 44:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 44:51Karen Kilgariff?

  "And I'm here to say I did it."

• 44:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, "And my hand hurts, maybe it smells." Okay, so at this point, Phoenix police had already found the crime scene at the bungalow, um, and at that point, neighbors and reporters had been like, doot doo doo, all over the, like stomping on the, everything in the crime scene, as they, do you know how they always do that?

• 45:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, they, it's, uh, after police invite reporters in, and they used to be like, "Now let's get the neighbors, this street, okay, now the next street, we'll go south."

• 45:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, "We're gonna need more footprints on the walls, please."

• 45:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Do they need children that want to see this murder up close? Let's get them in front.

• 45:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Touch everything, please. Okay, so, in fact, a day after the crime scene was found, the bungalow's landlord put an ad in the newspaper, and I'm gonna guess it was like, "Free tours of the bungalow for 10 cents a piece." Free tours! No, that's not a free tour, "Tours of the bungalow for 10 cents a piece."

• 45:41Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 45:42Georgia Hardstark?

  That doesn't, there you go. Over the next three weeks, hundreds of curiosity seekers, AKA fucking old timey murderinos, right?

• 45:51Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. Oh, we've been around for a long, long time.

• 45:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Murderinos, there hasn't been a murderino. I just stole your bit!

• 46:01Karen Kilgariff?

  You gotta do it.

• 46:01Georgia Hardstark?

  I was emulating you.

• 46:03Karen Kilgariff?

  No, my, it's stolen from one million other people.

• 46:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Good.

• 46:07Karen Kilgariff?

  The Haunted Prospector is a bit that's been around for generations.

• 46:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. So then the police theorized that Agnes and Sammy were shot while asleep also. They weren't really sure. The mattresses, like, one disappeared, one was found with no bloodstains on it, though, so clearly that's not what happened. At her trial in 1932, the dismemberment aspect of the double slaying is never addressed in court because Ruth was tried only for the murder of Leroy, whose body was not dismembered, and never tried for the murder of Sammy, for some reason. Happy Jack was present at the trial every day but never spoke on record and was never called as a witness. And people think it's because he had a lot of connections in the scene.

• 46:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah, I saw his suit.

• 46:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 46:55Karen Kilgariff?

  It's sweet.

• 46:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 46:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Three-piercer.

• 46:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Or maybe anything to do with it. I don't fucking know. Okay. The state argued that she acted with premeditation and that she inflicted the gunshot wound to her hand to try to bolster her claim of self-defense. But then I'm like, well, why run then? If you're like, boom, I shot my hand, now let me chop the bodies up and leave.

• 47:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 47:13Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 47:14Karen Kilgariff?

  And get gangrene. This is the perfect alibi.

• 47:19Georgia Hardstark?

  So on February 8th, 1932, Ruth is found guilty and sentenced to die by hanging.

• 47:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoa, in L.A.?

• 47:27Georgia Hardstark?

  No, in Phoenix.

• 47:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, okay.

• 47:28Georgia Hardstark?

  No, don't worry, we're...

• 47:30Karen Kilgariff?

  We would never.

• 47:32Georgia Hardstark?

  But we're not like that.

• 47:33Karen Kilgariff?

  L.A., we're so decent.

• 47:36Georgia Hardstark?

  So, oh, she was sentenced to die on Good Friday. You're friends with that day.

• 47:40Karen Kilgariff?

  We love that day in Catholicism. We made it up.

• 47:45Georgia Hardstark?

  But finally, at that one, she was like, all right, fuck this shit. I'm not getting fucking hung. She told her lawyer she wants, "I want to talk," and that Jack, Happy Jack, had told her to exonerate her something of something. That if she agreed, that had said that it was her fault and an accident, she would have gotten off. So don't say that I was involved, basically. So Jack was like, "I was involved, but say I wasn't and everything will be fine."

• 48:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, right.

• 48:15Georgia Hardstark?

  And she was like, guess what? He was involved. But her death sentence is overturned after a 10-day hearing because they found her now mentally incompetent. I think she acted crazy, or she was crazy, maybe. Let's see here. So then it's discovered that, that, sorry. Okay. So he's indicted, then Happy Jack's indicted as an accomplice to murder with Ruth as the star witness. So she's like, "I'm testifying, bitch."

• 48:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Against him?

• 48:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh-huh.

• 48:46Karen Kilgariff?

  The love of her life?

• 48:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 48:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 48:48Georgia Hardstark?

  No, that's her husband.

• 48:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Was it?

• 48:50Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know. I think he stuck by her side, actually. He was like, "I'll be here on morphine if you need me." Poor guy.

• 48:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Poor... He's just in the courtroom, shooting up.

• 49:00Georgia Hardstark?

  "I'm a doctor."

• 49:04Georgia Hardstark?

  She said, "I'm gonna be hanging for something Jack Hellerin is responsible for. I was convicted of murder, but shot in self-defense." And then she said he removed all the evidence and he's responsible for the whole thing, like, sending her, he told her exactly what to do. And then, so, she testified that she had gone over to their house on an invitation to play bridge and basically killed them both in self-defense after they all fought and the women physically attacked her.

• 49:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Because of bridge?

• 49:33Georgia Hardstark?

  No, because of rice pudding.

• 49:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, right, right, right.

• 49:36Georgia Hardstark?

  So she said that then Happy Jack came over, took care of everything, and then, like, told her what to do. So on January 25th, 1933, the judge freed Happy Jack, saying the state's case was inconsistent. And so her death sentence overturned. She's committed to the state's only mental institution, the Arizona State Asylum for the insane in Phoenix.

• 49:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 50:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, we have a bus bust in over here?

• 50:04Georgia Hardstark?

  From the asylum?

• 50:05Karen Kilgariff?

  They get discount tickets to the Celebrity Theater. Welcome.

• 50:10Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't think it's called that anymore, unfortunately. She escaped from...

• 50:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Wait, sir, can I just ask a question?

• 50:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 50:16Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the worst idea, but I'm gonna ask the audience a question anyway. Is that place haunted? Is that why people are cheering?

• 50:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you, stop talking.

• 50:26Georgia Hardstark?

  That's how to do it.

• 50:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? I open the door and then I slam it in your face.

• 50:31Georgia Hardstark?

  So she escapes, so Ruth goes away. She escapes from the institution between 1933 and 1963, between 30 years of staying there. She escapes six times.

• 50:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 50:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Partly because they gave her a key, because everyone liked her.

• 50:48Georgia Hardstark?

  And, in fact, she got so good at finger waves, she was like, how you mentioned her finger waves? She was the finger wave queen. And, like, people in society would come to the institution to get finger waves from her.

• 51:00Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 51:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 51:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you think, and I know this is wrong to ask, could she have been using the hole in her hand as the finger waves? You don't know! You weren't there!

• 51:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Hold on, stand still. Stay still. Mrs. Cribapple, stay still. Two more.

• 51:21Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know what, turns out so good, I just don't care.

• 51:25Karen Kilgariff?

  23's could do. I can't remember, is that what, are we talking about the '30s?

• 51:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 51:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 51:30Georgia Hardstark?

  So in one instance, when she escaped, she walked all the way from Yuma, Arizona, to the old Southern Pacific Railroad track, along the old Southern Pacific Railroad tracks.

• 51:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 51:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Bend over her shoulder. I don't know. She escaped for the final time on October 8th, 1963, and limped in San Francisco for six years.

• 51:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Holy shit!

• 51:51Karen Kilgariff?

  She started the hippie movement.

• 51:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Hey, man.

• 51:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Using a fake name and worked as a live-in maid for a wealthy family. Her identity was eventually discovered because her fucking shitty nephew, who helped her escape, was like, "Give me money or I'm fucking turning you in." And I'm paraphrasing, and I don't...

• 52:10Karen Kilgariff?

  No, that's a quote from "Look at Me."

• 52:13Georgia Hardstark?

  And she was like, "Fuck you, my nephew," and he was like, turned her in.

• 52:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 52:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Apparently. That's what I read.

• 52:20Karen Kilgariff?

  I just, I have to say, I just had a moment of fear, because my grandmother was a live-in maid and nanny for rich people.

• 52:27Georgia Hardstark?

  What if it was...

• 52:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Hold on a second, what if it all comes together tonight in Phoenix?

• 52:33Georgia Hardstark?

  I thought of that, too.

• 52:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Be amazing?

• 52:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Be like, wait, put that picture up again, and then I have to go really close. Hold on!

• 52:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Maybe they work together, though. I have the name of the city, but I don't remember it. Let's find out. Okay.

• 52:46Karen Kilgariff?

  San Francisco?

• 52:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. I meant, like, area.

• 52:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, oh, the area.

• 52:51Georgia Hardstark?

  But I said city.

• 52:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Pacific Heights?

• 52:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Okay, so her identity...

• 52:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Neighborhoods, the mission.

• 52:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes. Her identity is eventually discovered. She's taken back to Arizona in 1969. She hires attorneys. Basically, she's paroled and released in December of 1971, and she moves to Stockholm, California.

• 53:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Stockton?

• 53:16Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm with you. It's you and me, baby, it's you and me.

• 53:21Georgia Hardstark?

  I am not drunk, I haven't had a fucking... I have...

• 53:25Karen Kilgariff?

  She has not a touch of anything, as far as we know.

• 53:29Karen Kilgariff?

  It's vodka! Give it to me!

• 53:33Georgia Hardstark?

  I just get excited!

• 53:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Stockholm!

• 53:38Karen Kilgariff?

  I actually suffer from Stockton's syndrome for... Damn it!

• 53:41Georgia Hardstark?

  You had it!

• 53:42Karen Kilgariff?

  I couldn't do it.

• 53:43Georgia Hardstark?

  I get it, it's good.

• 53:43Karen Kilgariff?

  I couldn't do it, because I am very drunk.

• 53:47Georgia Hardstark?

  In 1983, Arizona issues her an absolute discharge, meaning she's no longer a parolee. She died in October of 1998, at the age of 93.

• 53:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck!

• 53:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. How badly do you... Yeah, she's, there's something going on there.

• 54:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, there is.

• 54:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Eventually, there is a confession letter written in Ruth's hand to her attorney, and she says it's her first and only confession. She stated that she alone planned and carried out the murders with whom, and it was because she and Leroy were allegedly competing for Happy Jack's affection, and she stated that she had not planned to kill Sammy, but did so after Sammy had heard the gunshot and walked into the murder scene and began fighting with Ruth. And she acted alone, and the whole thing. And, yeah, the letter had gotten suppressed, but it eventually came out. And that's, and, oh...

• 54:41Karen Kilgariff?

  So she, she really did it? Like, she confessed?

• 54:44Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know, still.

• 54:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Hard to say.

• 54:46Georgia Hardstark?

  It's hard to say.

• 54:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Because that could have been really satisfying, as an ending.

• 54:49Georgia Hardstark?

  I know, yes.

• 54:53Karen Kilgariff?

  But then, yes.

• 54:54Georgia Hardstark?

  I think, I think she got in a fight accident, not accidentally, shot them, and then Happy Jack helped her do all this shit.

• 55:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 55:02Georgia Hardstark?

  He eventually fell out of favor with the local Phoenix population. Wonder why? Slept with too many wives, probably.

• 55:08Karen Kilgariff?

  This city was literally filled with pipe. There was so much. It was everywhere, you couldn't walk, the horses were falling down, or what have you.

• 55:20Georgia Hardstark?

  And he died in Tucson in 1939.

• 55:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And the letter was anonymously donated to the Arizona State Archives, the confession letter.

• 55:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, wow.

• 55:31Georgia Hardstark?

  And that, Arizona, Phoenix especially, is your trunk murder.

• 55:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Trunk murder!

• 55:41Karen Kilgariff?

  That was great.

• 55:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. The best part of these murders in these cities is that for the rest of my life, people are gonna come up to me and say, you know, my grandma knew Ruth, and here's what really happened. And then they give you these little tidbits of information that you're just like, fuck!

• 55:55Karen Kilgariff?

  After the fact.

• 55:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, but you're like, oh my God, I would have never known. It's really cool.

• 55:58Karen Kilgariff?

  It happens in the VIP line all the time, where people come up, they're like, oh, you know the one thing about your thing? And it's like, oh, the thing that would have made it great? Thanks.

• 56:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Call it the meet and greet line, or we sound like assholes.

• 56:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's true.

• 56:10Georgia Hardstark?

  The VIP line.

• 56:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, VIP.

• 56:12Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what I mean?

• 56:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, but we hand out champagne, and everybody gets a car.

• 56:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 56:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, we're back. Are there any updates?

• 56:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Actually, yes. In 2024, the Phoenix Theater Company, which is a professional theater company based in Phoenix, obviously, premiered a play based on this case called "The Truth About Winnie Ruth Judd." And that same year, also 2024, bestselling writer and Arizona native Lori Notaro published a deep-dive book on the case called "The Murderess: A Novel." So that sounds really cool.

• 56:46Karen Kilgariff?

  That's awesome.

• 56:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. All right, and then let's get ready for Karen to blow everyone's fucking mind when she announces and does the story of Jodi Arias.

• 57:01Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Please help us, they're everywhere! We think they're murder hornets. 911 Nashville returns.

• 57:12Speaker 02

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 57:13Speaker 03

  Three bodies on the ground.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 57:17Speaker 03

  Hell, sin swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 57:20Speaker 02

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 57:22Speaker 03

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  Ryan Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 57:31Speaker 00

  Whether you're buying, renting, or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today. To help find a home that fits where you are in life, or that apartment that's a little closer to where you want to be. Zillow has the right information, tools, and support to help turn your future home into a reality. Because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started.

• 57:56Speaker 04

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• 58:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I just want to say that I feel even more disoriented being on a spinning stage. And I want you guys to know that I'm using you as my marker of where we are.

• 58:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Who?

• 58:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Because of your beautiful hair and dresses.

• 58:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh!

• 58:43Karen Kilgariff?

  That every... it's every time... I mean, you're all great. Everyone's great. But every time we come around, I'm like, okay, I'm home. All right, everything's okay.

• 58:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Is it because you can't see anything but bright colors?

• 58:55Karen Kilgariff?

  I can't see anything. I love bright colors, I love My Little Pony.

• 59:01Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm just wondering, like, I don't know where we came in.

• 59:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I don't...

• 59:04Georgia Hardstark?

  I think it's...

• 59:05Karen Kilgariff?

  You know what? It's... It's gone now. A thing came down, it's gone. We can't go back out that way. We have to climb out of here, Steve Austin-style.

• 59:15Georgia Hardstark?

  But my upper legs are so weak.

• 59:18Karen Kilgariff?

  My upper legs can't take the climb.

• 59:23Karen Kilgariff?

  All right.

• 59:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 59:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I hope... I hope you would all know that the one thing I would do if I come to Phoenix is the Jodi Arias.

• 59:38Karen Kilgariff?

  And, again, for people, if this is your first time or you bought tickets on a whim, on a dare,

• 59:47Karen Kilgariff?

  we're not cheering for Jodi Arias. That's not what's happening. It seems like that's what's happening. If you were not to investigate it, that is what just happened. But it isn't really what's happening. Not really.

• 1:00:00Georgia Hardstark?

  If you were on Twitter and saw the headline of that, what just happened, you would write a mean thing without reading the article.

• 1:00:06Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 1:00:07Georgia Hardstark?

  That you would be wrong.

• 1:00:08Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. But it doesn't matter.

• 1:00:12Georgia Hardstark?

  All right.

• 1:00:13Karen Kilgariff?

  And here's the funniest part of her, and for me. I really didn't like this when it was happening real time, so I never checked into this prime. I never paid attention to it or listened to it. Because to me, it just seemed like it had become this,

• 1:00:32Karen Kilgariff?

  you know, five times worse than the OJ trial type of thing, where they're like, okay, hot girl, committed murder, let's just talk about all these dirty things. And that's really kind of what it was, but, you know, if you boil it down. But it's a pretty fucking incredible story. So, most of this information is from a timeline that a guy named David Lor wrote for The Huffington Post. But I also watched a two-part snap on ID.

• 1:01:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:01Karen Kilgariff?

  They had to give her a two-parter, she is so legendary. And then, of course, I watched this superb made-for-TV movie, Jodi Arias: Dirty Little Secret.

• 1:01:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Who plays her?

• 1:01:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I'm glad you asked. A woman named Tanya Raymond, who was fucking excellent, I'm not being sarcastic. She plays Jodi Arias with this complete... Like, she's like sexy with dead eyes, which is one of the scariest things that you can do to a person. And she's be like, I'm super into you, but you have like doll eyes.

• 1:01:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Ted Bundy. Oh, so see Ted Bundy.

• 1:01:39Karen Kilgariff?

  And she's really gorgeous, and she just is kind of like always just low-level, kind of manipulating everybody all the time. And she also is used to getting what she wants, obviously, so when somebody's like, no thanks, she fucking kicks it into overdrive. So, our girl, Tanya Raymond, nailed it.

• 1:01:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Good for her.

• 1:01:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, she was very good. Anyhow, so also a lot of this... Oh, there she is. That's the real Jodi Arias as a blonde. You might not recognize her. That's not courtroom Jodi, when Jodi went librarian for the court to prove that she was, I don't know, smart or normal.

• 1:02:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Is this what she always normally looked like?

• 1:02:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, she started out as kind of a... She had blonde hair for a while, and then she goes brunette. By the time she has a mugshot, she has brunette hair.

• 1:02:28Georgia Hardstark?

  She kind of looks like my sister-in-law. Is that weird?

• 1:02:31Karen Kilgariff?

  That's great.

• 1:02:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yolanda?

• 1:02:33Karen Kilgariff?

  She does look like a Yolanda!

• 1:02:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. On June 9th, 2008, a woman named Mimi Hall, who is friends with Travis Alexander, is worried about him because he has not answered his phone or showed up for work for days, for five days. And she and all their friends were planning on going on a trip to Cancun. And it was the next day. And so they were trying to get ahold of him to make plans about this trip, and he wasn't answering anybody's calls. So finally, she called a bunch of the friends and said, let's go to his house and check in on this, because this is really weird and it's not like him at all. So they get to the house, and he... He was a very successful businessman. He was 30 years old, but he had a 4,000-square-foot house.

• 1:03:23Karen Kilgariff?

  He had drove a BMW. He was like doing very, very well for himself.

• 1:03:28Karen Kilgariff?

  But he did have a roommate, and I think a couple roommates in his house. And so when the friends showed up, they were like, is Travis here? And the friends go, no, he went on a trip to Cancun. Which how fucking scary would that be when you're the person going on the trip with them, where you're like, no, that's tomorrow? So, they all realized something terrible is happening, and so they go to check his room. And when they go into his room, it is a fucking bloodbath.

• 1:03:55Karen Kilgariff?

  He... His dead body is in his shower, and the bathroom is covered in blood. There's blood everywhere, and there's up to six feet on the walls. And there's a bloody palm print very clearly on one of the walls. His body is... He's got... He was stabbed 27 times in the back.

• 1:04:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 1:04:17Karen Kilgariff?

  His throat was slit, and then he was post-mortem shot in the head.

• 1:04:22Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 1:04:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, so just fucking overkill like crazy. So, also, his body had been sitting there for between four to five days. So it was in an advanced state of decomposition. So these fucking friends found him, like, horrifying. So they call 911, and when they explain what's going on, the police are on their way. At one point, the 911 operator asks

• 1:04:46Karen Kilgariff?

  this girl who called, Mimi, she goes, do you have... Does he have any enemies? Do you have any idea of who could be responsible for this? And she goes, yes, his ex-girlfriend, Jodi, on the 911 call.

• 1:04:56Georgia Hardstark?

  No way.

• 1:04:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, so all the friends, of course, didn't like her. They went out for like almost two years, and they're, of course, they... It was like, why are you dating this girl type of thing the whole time? So, when the cops are investigating the house, nothing is out of place, nothing is taken, nothing's missing, nothing's even disturbed. And that's why the roommates thought he was gone, because nothing had been used. There's like, the house was perfectly clean.

• 1:05:25Karen Kilgariff?

  When they check the washing machine, they find a digital camera inside. And it had been run through the rinse cycle. But the cops take it and they give it to the lab. I don't know, the digital camera lab? And they're like, see what you can pull off of this thing. So, bit of background. This all started in September of 2006. So Travis Alexander met Jodi Arias at a work conference in Las Vegas.

• 1:05:55Karen Kilgariff?

  They both worked for a company called Prepaid Legal Services, and it's a... Described as a multi-layered marketing firm.

• 1:06:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Red flag, we all know.

• 1:06:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? And then, in the thing they described, I think it was on Snap, they were like, kind of like Amway. And I was like, uh-huh.

• 1:06:13Karen Kilgariff?

  So, she had just gotten hired there, and this conference was basically all the like top sellers, and it's like a bunch of motivational seminars where they're like, here's how you can sell too, because you're special and you can do... And it's like, what is it? It's some kind of weird like legal insurance something? So it's very specific. But he... In the film, Jodi Arias: Dirty Little Secret, he's kind of presented as this, like, almost like a motivational speaker. And she's sitting, and she just started there. She's sitting in the crowd watching him. And she's immediately into him. She was like, right off.

• 1:06:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Quick question. What's the dirty little secret that she's fucking crazy? Because it's not a secret that she killed... I really... You think that the name would be Jodi Arias, fucking crazy bitch? I don't know, like something, it's not a secret.

• 1:07:05Karen Kilgariff?

  It may have been that he vent... Because he was like a good boy. He was very active in the Mormon church. Guys, you get up and do stuff, I won't be able to focus, because as I said already, you're leaving? Oh my, what am... Okay, you'll be there. Okay, good.

• 1:07:24Karen Kilgariff?

  You know what? You tell people you need them and they fucking go.

• 1:07:28Georgia Hardstark?

  hologram of Karen's therapist comes up.

• 1:07:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Michelle! Can you hear it, Michelle?

• 1:07:34Georgia Hardstark?

  I will always be here for you. One of it is just me being a puppet.

• 1:07:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's get a... Let's get a therapy sock.

• 1:07:39Georgia Hardstark?

  If I put it far enough away from your face, you won't be able to tell.

• 1:07:42Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. I think she's really here. She's in the 10th row.

• 1:07:51Georgia Hardstark?

  I interrupted you.

• 1:07:52Karen Kilgariff?

  No, it's okay. So, the dirty little secret.

• 1:07:56Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't care.

• 1:07:56Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no, no. I have to tell you now.

• 1:07:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 1:07:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Because he was very active in the Mormon church, and so he dated her, but everyone's like, why? And then he would break up with her, and like then they'd get back together secretly, and it was all that kind of, um, DL type of stuff.

• 1:08:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Got it, the dirty little...

• 1:08:12Karen Kilgariff?

  She herself was the dirty little secret.

• 1:08:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, look inside yourself and find.

• 1:08:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Why am I...

• 1:08:19Georgia Hardstark?

  You're the dirty secret.

• 1:08:20Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm the dirty secret all along.

• 1:08:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so, um, so Jodi, at the time, lived in California. She lived in Palm Desert. In "Jodi Arias: Dirty Little Secret," there is a scene where she comes on to him after he gives his speech. And she's just like, "I just really liked what you were talking about." And it is so embarrassing. Like, she goes so full-court press on him. I was like, "Jodi, no." Like, to the TV. My cheeks got red in the living room. I was like, "She is going for it." And he says, "No, thanks."

• 1:08:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 1:08:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Because he doesn't believe in premarital sex.

• 1:09:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:09:01Karen Kilgariff?

  But, and then she's like, "Well, maybe this or that," or whatever. And this is in the film. Um, and then he goes, "And really, I just want to get to know you."

• 1:09:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 1:09:12Karen Kilgariff?

  And then she's like, hard eyes.

• 1:09:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:15Karen Kilgariff?

  But crazy ones. The hearts have hands.

• 1:09:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Show them, because it's good. It's lit.

• 1:09:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Hey, man. Um, and so, from that point on, they spoke every day. Um, court records would later show that the couple exchanged 82,000 emails.

• 1:09:36Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 1:09:37Karen Kilgariff?

  82,000 emails.

• 1:09:39Georgia Hardstark?

  No. I don't even think Vince and I have said 82,000 words to each other. We're married, and we really like each other.

• 1:09:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Also, how did they sign them? Was it best? Did they change it every time? Sincerely yours?

• 1:09:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, that's a great question. So many questions.

• 1:09:58Karen Kilgariff?

  She would drive out. She was the one going, driving from Palm Desert to Mesa to come and visit him all the time. And essentially, what I inferred from the film, "Jodi Arias: Dirty Little Secret," was because he didn't believe in premarital sex. Driving.

• 1:10:20Georgia Hardstark?

  I have this, yeah, no.

• 1:10:21Karen Kilgariff?

  He didn't believe in caring about her at all.

• 1:10:24Georgia Hardstark?

  And putting in the most basic fuck. Why am I trashing him?

• 1:10:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I know. We're not, we're not.

• 1:10:29Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm not.

• 1:10:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so, essentially, she, they're hooking up. She thinks she's gonna like, you know, get him under her spell or whatever. Um, but he wants to keep it chilled. She's always kind of trying to push it a little bit more, whatever. And he's like, "Mm, that's okay." So, she comes up with a plan. So, in November of the year, this is two months after they meet.

• 1:10:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:10:51Karen Kilgariff?

  She decides to convert to Mormonism.

• 1:10:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:10:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Two months, two months.

• 1:10:57Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I don't think that's how Mormonism works. I don't, I don't think you can just be like, "Me!"

• 1:11:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep. That seems interesting.

• 1:11:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Golden glasses, you say?

• 1:11:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Was that the one with the salamander? We talked about that.

• 1:11:11Georgia Hardstark?

  24 Davids and the snakes?

• 1:11:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Maybe we shouldn't get into this.

• 1:11:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Maybe we shouldn't make up things about a religion we don't know anything about?

• 1:11:22Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 1:11:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's do it.

• 1:11:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Highly disrespectful manner. Yeah, we might as well.

• 1:11:28Karen Kilgariff?

  So, I mean, those must have been some good emails. Because she converts to his religion. I just can't get over that. And he, like, there's a scene in the film, "Jodi Arias: Dirty Little Secret," where his friends are like, "Dude, this, she's converting. That's insane." And he's like, "I mean, isn't this what we do? And we're out, and we're on our missions, and we're trying, we want to get people to join the church." Like, especially, I mean, I don't know how it was in real life, but in this film, he just seems so casual and laid back all the time. He's always kind of treating her like, "Oh, okay, whatever." Um, so this didn't scare the living shit out of him, which it absolutely should have. If there's ever been a red flag in the world,

• 1:12:11Karen Kilgariff?

  it's someone converting to your religion two months after you first took him. Just a note, maybe I'm being judgmental. You guys are being very quiet right now.

• 1:12:22Karen Kilgariff?

  It's all right.

• 1:12:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. So, it takes, then, it's three more months after she converts to his religion that they start officially dating. So, he really waits it out. And then he's finally like, "Fine, we can go out in public together and take pictures and stuff." So, so that's what they do. They actually go on a bunch of trips. And I think we do have a picture of them together. Um, they traveled a lot. And I think for their work, he traveled a lot, so she would go with him. Um, in the film, "Jodi Arias: Dirty Little Secret."

• 1:12:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, we were all holding our breath, hoping you would say it.

• 1:13:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Hoping I'd say a different movie?

• 1:13:02Georgia Hardstark?

  No, no, no.

• 1:13:04Karen Kilgariff?

  There's this horrifying scene where he's having a barbecue at his house, and she's basically trying to play the wife. So, she's like, "I redecorated. Do you want to try some of my homemade lena made?" And you're just like, "No, no, none of this." Um, and all the friends are like, "So, are you guys gonna get married or something? What's happening?" And he's like, "No, no, she's just excited," or whatever. And in the film, she overhears them. And then she's like, "Oh, I'm just your side piece." And he's kind of like, "Oh, yeah." I mean, um, but he, so, so basically, she was super crazy possessive. She didn't like him talking to other women. She didn't like that he had female friends.

• 1:13:48Karen Kilgariff?

  And she checked, she like, looked at his phone all the time. She checked his email all the time. But he thought it was cute. He liked that she was obsessed with him. Oh, sorry, the next, sorry, the next picture we have?

• 1:14:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh. Ew, like he, no.

• 1:14:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Your job now, Phoenix, is to go out to the thrift stores in this state. Could you imagine? If you found that fucking shirt at like, a St. Vincent de Paul? You're just like, "Oh, oh, oh."

• 1:14:20Georgia Hardstark?

  That's some fucked up shit.

• 1:14:23Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm telling you, this is the kind of thing where like, in sixth grade, I would get an idea like this. And I would be like, "Hey," to my sister, and she'd be like, "Sit down, I have to tell you some things." Never put a guy's name on your shirt. I mean, all right.

• 1:14:40Karen Kilgariff?

  So, he basically, she basically confronts him and says, "Are you, you know, serious about me?" And he's like, "I'm not, I'm 30. I'm not like, looking for marriage right now." And essentially, like, "And that's not really what we're doing, or how I see it."

• 1:14:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:14:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, so after four months of dating, they break up. And, uh, of course, Jodi does what any woman would do when a guy breaks up with her. She moves to his town. So, she picks up from Palm Desert and goes ahead and moves to Mesa.

• 1:15:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:15:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, you know, 10 minutes away from his house. Um, and, uh, he starts hooking up with her again. Um, always a great idea. If you go through a breakup, go straight back to that person that you hate as quickly as you can. And fuck them.

• 1:15:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Behind your friend's back. Make sure you don't tell anyone.

• 1:15:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:32Georgia Hardstark?

  It's great. Um, great idea.

• 1:15:34Karen Kilgariff?

  So, but again, like, as I was, you know, watching the film, "Jodi Arias: Dirty Little Secret,"

• 1:15:43Karen Kilgariff?

  like, I kept thinking, "This guy is 30 years old." Like, it doesn't make sense. It's someone that's totally like, clocked on him, and then just been like, "We are making this happen."

• 1:15:51Georgia Hardstark?

  I was in relationships like that in high school. We were fucking bananas.

• 1:15:54Karen Kilgariff?

  High school?

• 1:15:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:55Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 1:15:56Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, just crazy people who do crazy things, and it's cute.

• 1:15:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Where you're like, "We're gonna be married, and we're gonna be together forever."

• 1:16:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:16:02Karen Kilgariff?

  But in high school?

• 1:16:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 1:16:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Is that weird? We, we met in rehab.

• 1:16:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Is that weirder?

• 1:16:11Karen Kilgariff?

  No. Yes.

• 1:16:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Our song was a Slayer song.

• 1:16:18Georgia Hardstark?

  There's so much more I could say.

• 1:16:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Do it!

• 1:16:21Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:16:23Karen Kilgariff?

  That's true love!

• 1:16:27Karen Kilgariff?

  You're in a dance. "Oh Slayer, honey, honey, do you hear?"

• 1:16:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so, December 2007, uh, which is, you know, December of that year, he decides that his, this part of his life is not good for him, and he needs to start dating women that he wants to marry. He needs to be more in line with his beliefs and stop fucking around. Um, so, he asks out a girl that's at his church, that's a friend of his. And, uh, what he doesn't know, they start dating, and he's super into it. And Jodi, who still lives, uh, in Mesa, um, followed them on their dates and took pictures of them from across the street.

• 1:17:13Georgia Hardstark?

  And she was fine with it, right?

• 1:17:15Karen Kilgariff?

  She was totally fine with it. She was just checking on their date, just checking.

• 1:17:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Hope it's going well.

• 1:17:18Karen Kilgariff?

  "Is the date happening? Now I know it's happening."

• 1:17:23Karen Kilgariff?

  And then pictures, of course, too. Uh, she slashed his tires twice. And she slashed the date's tires once.

• 1:17:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, then they're just stuck together longer.

• 1:17:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:32Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:17:33Karen Kilgariff?

  She's not thinking it through. She's acting from the heart.

• 1:17:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Does that make me crazy? That's a, that's a mistake. Because then they can't leave.

• 1:17:40Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. You get one of their cars towed.

• 1:17:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:17:45Karen Kilgariff?

  And they make them go to the impound lot.

• 1:17:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:17:47Karen Kilgariff?

  She got really good at breaking into his house. She would, um, there was a sliding glass door that she knew that he never locked, and she would go in that way. She also would climb in the doggy door. Which is, I feel like if you were home alone and you were just kind of like, can you imagine?

• 1:18:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Why do you like him this much? What happened?

• 1:18:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck, you're not winning him back this way.

• 1:18:17Karen Kilgariff?

  See yourself, see, objective witness.

• 1:18:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Close this door.

• 1:18:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Trying to push that plastic flap up, it's all dirty. Fucking dirty dog paws. Honey, honey.

• 1:18:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Honey, oh honey.

• 1:18:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so, one time, this is my favorite thing this whole fucking case. One time, he found her hiding behind his Christmas tree.

• 1:18:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, the visual, the visual. Even as a Jew, I see how fucking creepy that is.

• 1:18:56Karen Kilgariff?

  It would be like if someone put a menorah on their head. I have to translate everything to you.

• 1:19:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, okay, I get it.

• 1:19:04Karen Kilgariff?

  You get it?

• 1:19:04Georgia Hardstark?

  I get it now.

• 1:19:05Karen Kilgariff?

  So disrespectful, anyway.

• 1:19:08Karen Kilgariff?

  But also, the moment after, just think about that, where you're hiding behind the guy you loves' Christmas tree. Because he's not dating you anymore. So you're like,

• 1:19:22Karen Kilgariff?

  "Why doesn't he love me?" And then he's like, "Jody?" And then you're like,

• 1:19:30Karen Kilgariff?

  "Hey, hi."

• 1:19:35Karen Kilgariff?

  "What's, where'd you get this wrapping paper?" Back out through the dog door.

• 1:19:41Karen Kilgariff?

  She only enters and exits this house through the dog door.

• 1:19:46Karen Kilgariff?

  So...

• 1:19:50Karen Kilgariff?

  In an upsetting case, it's one of the most upsetting aspects,

• 1:19:54Georgia Hardstark?

  One of them.

• 1:19:55Karen Kilgariff?

  To me.

• 1:19:57Karen Kilgariff?

  His family's all sitting on the couch drinking eggnog. "So that's the new girl in your life? Okay."

• 1:20:05Karen Kilgariff?

  In the film,

• 1:20:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Jodi Arias, dirty little secret. He comes home one time, and this seems like bullshit to me, and I didn't, I couldn't find it in any of like the timelines or real things. It's very Hollywood too, but I also, it's so creepy, she actually, because it would make sense, she was a photographer, that was like a big interest of hers, and it was a thing she did. And she did take pictures of him on dates with other girls, there's one scene, he comes home with the girl he's on a date with, and he looks, and there's a wall covered in a collage of them on dates.

• 1:20:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Ew.

• 1:20:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. But, that's so creepy that I'm like, hmm, that seems Hollywood style.

• 1:20:46Georgia Hardstark?

  They're being symbolic, they're like, here's basically what it was like.

• 1:20:49Karen Kilgariff?

  This is how, this is like Homeland-style crazy. There's red string attached to all the pictures for no reason. Do you see how this date is connected to this date?

• 1:21:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so, on April 20th, 2008, apparently, he, so they, after, after the, after all of that insanity, he was like, "This is crazy and this is too much, you have to get out of my life." Well then, it's like, a couple months later, he sends her a text saying, "I'm at a nightclub right now and it helped me to come to the conclusion that you're one of the prettiest girls on the planet."

• 1:21:32Karen Kilgariff?

  I think he had the thing where, maybe he wasn't the great, like the most solid drunk in the world, so he'd get like, he'd drink like three Dos Equis and he's like, "I gotta text some shit," you know what I mean? Couldn't handle his shit, it seemed like. Because he, he would, he would kind of get back into it with her, because it was convenient, and I think she was manipulating him sexually, obviously.

• 1:21:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 1:22:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Could we just start going the other way? Okay, thank you, I thought I was, the seizure had started.

• 1:22:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, we counterclock, well now we're counterclockwise?

• 1:22:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Or clockwise?

• 1:22:10Georgia Hardstark?

  This is just like a long, one of those long table games where they try to show you, like trick you into which marble's underneath them?

• 1:22:16Karen Kilgariff?

  I already lost $200 at this show. Okay, so, basically, all of this shit happens and then at the end, you know, the sexting goes on for a couple months, and then, in the first week of June of 2008, Travis tells his friends that he found out that Jody broke into his Facebook, and that's when he said, "Get out of my life."

• 1:22:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Facebook's the end game?

• 1:22:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Facebook was the fucking final straw. Not the house, not the dog door, not the fucking Christmas tree.

• 1:22:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Facebook, alright.

• 1:22:52Karen Kilgariff?

  So,

• 1:22:55Karen Kilgariff?

  on June 2nd, 2008, Jodi Arias rented a car from Budget Rent-A-Car in Redding, California. So she's from Wyrika, oh, Redding is up there, all of nor, way northern California, it's a very scary place, be careful when you go there.

• 1:23:13Karen Kilgariff?

  So she, she rents a car from there, and then they also found, later, police found receipts where she had bought gas cans in, I believe it was in Redding also, that she had in the car. So she then drives, she arrives at Travis's house on June 4th, 2008.

• 1:23:35Karen Kilgariff?

  "Is it your birthday, or do you just think words are sexy?" Either way, God bless you.

• 1:23:44Karen Kilgariff?

  So she shows up, and she's like, "I miss you," and you know, blah, whatever, and then, he goes, the girl he had been dating, they had just broken up. So he's like, "Why don't you come in, so I can talk to you about my feelings." And of course, they start having sex.

• 1:24:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, in the film,

• 1:24:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Jodi Arias, dirty little secret.

• 1:24:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Damn it! Foiled.

• 1:24:11Karen Kilgariff?

  They, so they have sex, and then she starts taking pictures, they start taking pictures of each other in bed. Because photography is her interest, as she has shown everyone.

• 1:24:23Karen Kilgariff?

  He gets up to go take a shower, he's in the bathroom, and in the film, Jodi Arias, dirty little secret, she, and I, I couldn't find any proof that this is actually how it happened, so this, again, could be the Hollywood version, but, she basically sees on his phone, the ex that he just broke up with is trying to talk to him, and she, as him, is like, "I'm with Jody now," and then she's like, basically like, "That dumb slut," or whatever, and then, she goes crazy and is like, telling this girl, the girl basically says a bunch of shit, like, "But you said that she was just a side piece that never meant anything to you," and da-da-da, and all this shit.

• 1:25:04Karen Kilgariff?

  So, the next thing that they know it happens, is she goes into the bathroom with the camera, and she's taking pictures of him in the shower. And she's like, "Yeah, you look so sexy," or whatever. Basically, she takes a picture of him, that, there was a picture, and you can see it online, and I'm sure you've already seen it, especially because you're, if you're from here. It's him looking straight into the camera, like wet from the shower, and then she told him to turn around, she was like taking a picture of him back, and that's when she stabbed him. Now, the craziest fucking part is, okay, so, so basically, that she stabs him and kills him, and then, three days later, June 7th,

• 1:25:45Karen Kilgariff?

  she returns the Budget Rental Car in Redding, California, she had put 2,834 miles on it.

• 1:25:51Georgia Hardstark?

  That's a lot.

• 1:25:52Karen Kilgariff?

  And, what they figured out later was, she bought those gas cans so that she could get gas and keep it, so that she was never, no one could prove that she was ever in Arizona. So, a week after that, she posts on MySpace

• 1:26:11Karen Kilgariff?

  a photo gallery that's like in loving memory of Travis.

• 1:26:17Georgia Hardstark?

  And, the hometown, the chick was like, you know, she had dated my, our brothers, blah, blah, blah.

• 1:26:23Karen Kilgariff?

  And she took pictures with the brothers?

• 1:26:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Took pictures and shit with the brothers, was obsessive about them. The night before she had to go, she was hanging out at a bar back home in Wyrika.

• 1:26:33Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 1:26:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Didn't know it was said that way. And, the brother was like, "Come home with me," and she was like, "I can't, I gotta wake up early to go like test, or to get questioned by these investigators, my, my ex died." Like, fucking creepy shit.

• 1:26:47Karen Kilgariff?

  And then starts telling all the details of it, where this guy's trapped at a bar, like, "I thought we were trying to play pool," and she's like, "And then, and then..."

• 1:26:57Karen Kilgariff?

  So she goes into the police station and she voluntarily gives her fingerprints and her DNA to the police. She told the detective that she talked to that she and Travis had had a romantic relationship, but they had broken up and she hadn't seen him since she moved out of Arizona in April. So while they're waiting for the lab tests to come back, they, the people that were working on recovering the chip in the camera, they're like, "And maybe, maybe this is because it's in a movie." Yeah, that doesn't make a ton of sense.

• 1:27:39Karen Kilgariff?

  You get swabbed for DNA and then they put that in the microwave for five minutes and then over here, this evidence comes in. But basically, it all came in at the same time, in real life it did. The people that were working on the camera memory chip found a series of photos. So it's all the nude photos of them in bed and all of it is time stamped. So she's like, "I haven't seen him since April." Well, this says June 4th. And it's them in bed naked and then it's him in the shower and then there are these pictures that are like fuzzy that they had to work on. And they have a picture of her hand cleaning up the blood with his body in the background.

• 1:28:19Karen Kilgariff?

  So she accidentally took pictures of herself at the scene with the body, placing herself at the scene.

• 1:28:26Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 1:28:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh huh. You see the picture, Stephen and I had to look for it today and we couldn't find it and we saw so many terrible things.

• 1:28:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 1:28:36Karen Kilgariff?

  So many.

• 1:28:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Poor Stephen.

• 1:28:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Poor Stephen.

• 1:28:39Georgia Hardstark?

  He's like, "I'm gonna start a cat podcast."

• 1:28:42Karen Kilgariff?

  And now...

• 1:28:43Georgia Hardstark?

  "It's gonna be so fun. My life's gonna be so happy."

• 1:28:45Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just gonna be happy and nice all the time.

• 1:28:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure, Karen and Georgia, I'll record your podcast for you.

• 1:28:50Karen Kilgariff?

  I'll pull, I'll pull a couple pictures off of Google Images for you. Oh.

• 1:28:54Georgia Hardstark?

  We broke Stephen.

• 1:28:57Karen Kilgariff?

  We broke him in half.

• 1:28:58Georgia Hardstark?

  We broke him.

• 1:28:59Karen Kilgariff?

  They get, so they get the DNA, the fingerprints, then they match with her fingerprints, they match it to the palm print that was on the wall. Her blood was in the bathroom. There's, the police said that they'd never seen more evidence against a person in any case. That was a quote.

• 1:29:18Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 1:29:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:20Georgia Hardstark?

  What is, what?

• 1:29:21Karen Kilgariff?

  So when all of that comes in, they're like, "Okay, well then we're, we're going to indict her for first degree murder." And they call up the police up in Waikiki to go arrest her. She's arrested at her grandmother's home. And as she's being led off to the police car, she says, "Is there any way I could get my makeup on?"

• 1:29:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Ah.

• 1:29:44Karen Kilgariff?

  For real. And the cop was like, "No." Puts her in the car. And so we don't, I don't have this headshot either, but her headshot, she doesn't have makeup on.

• 1:29:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Headshot?

• 1:29:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh. Well, in a way, it is a headshot.

• 1:30:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:06Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean...

• 1:30:07Georgia Hardstark?

  She needed her makeup for her headshot.

• 1:30:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no. I'm ruined, ruined.

• 1:30:13Georgia Hardstark?

  We broke Karen, too.

• 1:30:15Karen Kilgariff?

  This fucking podcast. It, she has, like, it looked like she just like straightened her hair and it's like a really pretty brunette and she's kind of like, "Uh." It's like the other woman. It's like the woman from her fucking headshot. She looks very, it's a very natural look, very beachy.

• 1:30:36Georgia Hardstark?

  And psychotic?

• 1:30:39Karen Kilgariff?

  And insane. So she gets extradited to Arizona. She enters a plea of not guilty. The Maricopa County Attorney's Office files a notice of intent to seek the death penalty for committing first degree murder in an especially cruel, heinous, or depraved manner.

• 1:30:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:58Karen Kilgariff?

  She gets out of jail, makes bail, and then goes and does an interview with the TV show Forty Eight Hours.

• 1:31:04Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I don't think she should have gotten out of jail. Am I wrong in thinking that?

• 1:31:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Or like, she made bail.

• 1:31:09Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. That doesn't, okay.

• 1:31:12Karen Kilgariff?

  It seems unfair.

• 1:31:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Did Forty Eight Hours bail her out?

• 1:31:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Straight onto the set. She, on that show, claims that she did not kill Travis, but that in fact, it was a home invasion by a man and a woman who came in, they shot Travis, they murdered him, she was just standing there and then they went to murder her, the gun jammed, so she pushed the gun away.

• 1:31:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 1:31:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Grabbed her purse.

• 1:31:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 1:31:43Karen Kilgariff?

  She specified that. And then left.

• 1:31:46Georgia Hardstark?

  High-fived the wall with a bloody hand.

• 1:31:49Karen Kilgariff?

  "We got away." And then she drove to Northern California.

• 1:31:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Got it.

• 1:31:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Straight through, without alerting the cops. And they were like, "Well, why wouldn't you call the police even when you got there?" And she was like, "I was afraid for my life." So then, later on, she does an interview with Inside Edition and on that, she is quoted as saying, "No jury is going to convict me because I'm innocent and you can mark my words on that one. No jury will convict me." Why would you ever fucking say that? "Oh, 'cause you're a psychopath." Okay. So opening arguments of this trial began on January 2nd, 2012. She changed her look and that was that picture with, yeah. So that's her lawyer. So she's basically doing lawyer cosplay, essentially.

• 1:32:39Georgia Hardstark?

  She's like, "Who in my life seems respectable? My lawyer for my trial for murder."

• 1:32:46Karen Kilgariff?

  It turns out, I'm the lawyer, so... No joke, soon after this, she asked to represent herself.

• 1:32:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, don't do that.

• 1:32:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, no, she did it, of course. True psychopath.

• 1:32:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Wait, she did? Oh, my god.

• 1:33:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. She's like, "You know what? You know what? Sit back, Bangs, I got this one." And the judge is like, "Okay." And then, as her own, acting on her own defense or whatever, the first thing she does is try to admit into evidence, letters from Travis, admitting to her that he is a pedophile.

• 1:33:23Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 1:33:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. She's just trying to fucking destroy a dead man's reputation that she killed.

• 1:33:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:33:33Karen Kilgariff?

  The prosecution immediately took the letters, proved that they were forgeries. And then, so they were not admitted into evidence, and then she said to the judge, "I think I might be in over my head here. Can I get my lawyer back? For real." So then she gets Bangs back. Then, her story changes, and this is in court, her story changes, that the reason that everything happened because she dropped Travis's camera that day. She was there, they did have sex, they had the camera. She dropped the camera, he got so angry that he attacked her and she had, it was self-defense, she was fighting for her life. Stabbing him 27 times.

• 1:34:18Georgia Hardstark?

  27 times, uh huh.

• 1:34:19Karen Kilgariff?

  So...

• 1:34:20Georgia Hardstark?

  In the back.

• 1:34:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Right, in the fucking back.

• 1:34:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:23Karen Kilgariff?

  He was attacking her with his back. That judge must have been like, "Uh huh. Go on." So then she starts this, she starts this story that this has been a relationship of domestic abuse and very extreme physical violence and that she was, she was basically a battered woman, which fuck her for lots of reasons, but especially for fucking that one. Like, coming, that, that specific kind of lie. You know what I mean? Because that's the thing that later on, people hold on to, where like, "Well, you know, this happens all the time," where people claim, and it's like, "Uh, no, it doesn't. It's what psychopaths do."

• 1:35:07Karen Kilgariff?

  And there's not that many of them. Sorry, I really got fired up there for a second. That and the Christmas tree. Of course, there is a slew of character witnesses that come in and are just like, "He fucking was a church-going man. He was a good guy. He was self-made." He grew up, his, both his parents were meth addicts. He grew up with two fucking nutso awful parents and when he was 10, his grandma came and took them and basically, I guess, got custody and that's when he started going to her. It was, she was the one that was Mormon and he started going to church with her. And the second he started living with his grandmother, his, you know, he bloomed and everything's great.

• 1:35:51Karen Kilgariff?

  So like, this is truly a self-made man at age 30. And that's basically, everyone came in and was just like, "Yeah, no, we're not doing this at all." So, then, long story short, on May 8th, 2012, Jodi Arias, and there's so much more shit and I am sure that there's a million people sitting in this audience right now going, "Why aren't you talking about the thing?" But there's like 70 million things.

• 1:36:16Georgia Hardstark?

  That's, I didn't know. I didn't understand why everyone was watching this one. And I'm like, "Oh, I'm gonna go back and watch it all."

• 1:36:22Karen Kilgariff?

  I thought it was all just like, girl kills guy and like, "Oh, she's hot, so whatever." It's like, it's the twists and, like, Nancy Grace was right. The twists and turns were fucking nuts. Can we, can, really quick, because Nancy, she really, if you take a look at the stages... I think the one day that I decided not to get involved in the Jodi Arias case was because I was watching Nancy Grace talk about Jodi Arias and I was like, "I might be on her side. You're a lunatic."

• 1:36:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Look at how she's doing like a Courtney, like 90's Courtney Love in the top right corner.

• 1:36:59Karen Kilgariff?

  She, she went through a Brett phase.

• 1:37:01Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 1:37:02Karen Kilgariff?

  That, I don't know.

• 1:37:03Georgia Hardstark?

  I did too when I was like 18 and a right girl.

• 1:37:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I did too. I did too.

• 1:37:08Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like when your bangs are growing out.

• 1:37:10Karen Kilgariff?

  You know what, that's, you know what it is? She had a hair person that was like, "No, you know what? It looks really good on you." And she was like, "Does it? I think, is it too young for me? No, Nancy."

• 1:37:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Nancy.

• 1:37:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Nancy? She was so mad. But then, she was happy because on May 8th, 2012, Jodi Arias was found guilty of first degree murder and sentenced to life in prison without parole.

• 1:37:44Karen Kilgariff?

  The Associated Press said the case was a circus and a runaway train, and that it grew into a worldwide sensation as thousands followed the trial via a live, unedited web feed, which I didn't know. You could watch that thing in real time, which is equal, it sounds equally insanely exciting and then like the most boring thing ever. Because in between time and court cases is like, oh my god.

• 1:38:10Georgia Hardstark?

  We'd like to file for motion, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

• 1:38:12Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't, I, cut the motions. We don't need every motion.

• 1:38:19Karen Kilgariff?

  For fans, the Arias trial became a live daytime soap opera. With its mix of jealousy, religion, murder and sex, the Jodi Arias case shows what happens when the justice system becomes entertainment.

• 1:38:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Nancy Grace.

• 1:38:37Karen Kilgariff?

  And then I accidentally left on a picture of a beautiful young detective named Nathaniel Mendez. That's just on my last, I wasn't taking him off because I was gonna show him to my sister, like, did you ever see a guy this hot?

• 1:38:52Karen Kilgariff?

  And it got printed in color, which is going right into the memory book. He was there and he was like, this crazy bitch bought gas cans in Northern California.

• 1:39:04Georgia Hardstark?

  That's a strong chin he's got there.

• 1:39:06Karen Kilgariff?

  No, he is a, he's a detective and he's gonna detect some shit, Jodi. You can't get away.

• 1:39:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, Karen, guess who we have here tonight? He's gonna do a Magic Mike dance for you.

• 1:39:20Karen Kilgariff?

  He retired from detective-ing and now he's a sex dancer. And I'm sorry, I probably left out some good stuff, but that's the case of Jodi Arias, everybody.

• 1:39:32Georgia Hardstark?

  That was great.

• 1:39:34Karen Kilgariff?

  It was a good one, Mike.

• 1:39:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, we're back. Karen, do you have any updates?

• 1:39:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Okay, so in 2020, an Arizona court upheld Arias's murder conviction and life sentence, but she continues to pursue legal appeals. She maintains a Substack from prison.

• 1:39:54Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 1:39:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Called Just Jodi.

• 1:39:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 1:39:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Where she shares updates about her life and stuff she's doing. There was, of course, the Lifetime movie Bad Behind Bars: Jodi Arias, which dramatized the case from the perspective of the inmates that she made friends with while she was in jail. And then in 2025, Arizona Family, which is an Arizona-based TV network, premiered a documentary called Obsessed: Unraveling Jodi Arias.

• 1:40:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow, that's such, it's such a heart-wrenching story. I mean.

• 1:40:27Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just that, all those aspects of like control, like totally infiltrating a person's life and taking over and control, it's just, that part of it is so scary.

• 1:40:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:39Karen Kilgariff?

  And so, like, extreme.

• 1:40:41Georgia Hardstark?

  I always thought about his friends too, and how like you have a friend who's dating someone that no, none of the friend group likes.

• 1:40:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:48Georgia Hardstark?

  And there's just nothing you can do about it and how frustrating that is. And then for something like this to happen, it's like, I wish I had tried harder, but there's really nothing you can do.

• 1:40:58Karen Kilgariff?

  No, because she was like, they couldn't have done anything. She was a, she was like a robot. She was like an obsessed person that was not going to quit, obviously. I mean, beyond. Okay, well, let's go back now, and I don't know if you remember this real time, probably one of the best hometowns anyone has ever done at a live show.

• 1:41:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 1:41:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Hands down.

• 1:41:24Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:41:27Speaker 01

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings. 911 Nashville returns.

• 1:41:34Speaker 02

  It's a homicide detective down here.

• 1:41:35Speaker 03

  Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:41:37Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:41:39Speaker 03

  Allison swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues for Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:41:47Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippeach, 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:41:53Speaker 00

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• 1:42:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, you know what, you know what it means when the stage starts turning the other way? That means we have time for a hometown murder.

• 1:43:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, now, let me just say this. Let me just tell you a couple important and crucial rules. We went over a couple of them before. Be drunk enough so that you can follow your own story and have a good time with it. But not so much that you're just going to yell or do weird shit like that.

• 1:43:21Karen Kilgariff?

  We want it to be local.

• 1:43:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Like Arizona, you know what I mean?

• 1:43:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, yeah, like around here. And then also, when you speak, when you tell the story, in your mind, it's gonna be a paragraph long and we're gonna have a beginning, a middle and an end. And we're just gonna, we're gonna pull right through that in a timely manner.

• 1:43:39Georgia Hardstark?

  We have an added layer of fucking weirdness because we're spinning.

• 1:43:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:42Georgia Hardstark?

  So if you've ever been in musical theater, that'd be a great, this would be a great time for you.

• 1:43:46Karen Kilgariff?

  We would love, if you're a mezzo-soprano, we would love, we would love to hear from you. And also, the onus is on Georgia because she's really good at picking people.

• 1:43:56Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm gonna go right for you.

• 1:43:59Georgia Hardstark?

  She just like, they pointed at her. Okay, so here's.

• 1:44:02Karen Kilgariff?

  It's over.

• 1:44:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, there's, that's, okay.

• 1:44:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Holy shit.

• 1:44:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Hey, it's Vince.

• 1:44:06Karen Kilgariff?

  It's Vince, it's Vince. Yeah, say hi.

• 1:44:15Georgia Hardstark?

  What's your name? Hi, Cynthia.

• 1:44:18Karen Kilgariff?

  It's Cynthia.

• 1:44:19Georgia Hardstark?

  We also, we also forgot, our new rule too is that everyone's mad that they didn't get picked, so just don't worry about it.

• 1:44:26Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm very sorry. Oh yeah, the pressure is on because these are, this is now an audience of people who don't want to hear this story. That's, it's a lot. I'm very sorry, everybody. I'll keep it short, sweet.

• 1:44:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, tell me, your friend, okay, we're spinning?

• 1:44:38Karen Kilgariff?

  That's my friend, sorry. So I do have a hometown story. Actually, it's a secondhand story because I'm in a really small town where I'm related to everybody. So if my mom found out I was talking about like a cousin, I'd have to explain what a podcast is. And like you said, she's 65, it wouldn't work.

• 1:44:53Georgia Hardstark?

  It's too much.

• 1:44:54Karen Kilgariff?

  So I did hear this story from a coworker when I was working at Macy's.

• 1:44:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Macy's?

• 1:44:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, Macy's. And it's about 10 years old, but it definitely always kind of stuck with me. And so it's kind of my favorite murder, was the first kind of introduction into this sort of obsession with true crime. But it's about a small town near the port, Galus. So if you're not familiar with it, we have a lot of border towns, of course, near Arizona. And due to these border towns, we have these group of people who, they're militias, who basically patrol them. So think of a lot of untrained patriots with huge semi-automatic weapons, wandering around in the dark trying to keep people from crossing the border. So we have all these militias.

• 1:45:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Who, they've not been hired by anyone to do this?

• 1:45:40Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no, they're, they're private citizens who have taken upon themselves to keep, you know, women and children out, so they just, like, they go around the borders and stuff.

• 1:45:52Karen Kilgariff?

  So anyway, there was a particular woman, her name was Shawna Ford. And she was basically a great person. She was like a concert promoter, she ran for Senate or something like that. She was a beautician. She also had extensive criminal background, fraud, burglary, assault, which made total sense that she was a part of this militia to keep bad people out.

• 1:46:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, so wait, during the day, she runs City Hall?

• 1:46:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. She ran for office, but she never was elected, but she was a go-getter.

• 1:46:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:24Karen Kilgariff?

  So anyway, she was a part of this militia and the militia decided she was too crazy for them.

• 1:46:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 1:46:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, and so they kicked, they kicked her out.

• 1:46:35Karen Kilgariff?

  But she, she took some friends with her and decided she's gonna start her own militia. So she recruited these two gentlemen. One was named Jason Bush, the other was, was named Albert Galixola. And Jason Bush was a white supremacist who, again, assault, drugs, battery, just a stand-up guy.

• 1:46:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Ran for Senate.

• 1:46:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, definitely guy. And then Albert, I believe, had a lot of drug problems and drug history and he was a drug informant. So they knew the only way they were gonna get money to fund this militia was to go and rob immigrants. So they were gonna go to immigrants' houses and look for drugs because they knew that all immigrants just, you know, have drugs, I guess, lying around their house.

• 1:47:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Just piles of cocaine on every coffee table.

• 1:47:19Karen Kilgariff?

  I guess so.

• 1:47:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Haven't they heard of Kickstarter?

• 1:47:22Karen Kilgariff?

  I think it was kind of before the whole GoFundMe thing. It was before that. And they also, they also knew that if they had robbed an immigrant, that they were less likely to report the crime, which is crazy because immigrants are more likely to be victims of crimes than actually commit them. But anyway, so they go into this, they think you.

• 1:47:43Georgia Hardstark?

  I think someone's gonna run for Senate.

• 1:47:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Hashtag merderinos a color. What's up?

• 1:47:55Karen Kilgariff?

  So they, the three of them get together and they break into the home of Gina Gonzalez and Raul Flores. It's like 5:00 AM, they wake up the family and they hustle them all into the living room and they start searching for drugs. Well, the problem is they don't find any drugs because there's no drugs there. What they do find is some jewelry and some money. Well, now they have the family in the living room and what they were gonna do was basically just leave. The problem was these were not immigrants. These were US citizens. These were Americans, just like you and I, who just happen to be Hispanic. So at this point, they have nothing to lose. So they proceed to shoot Gina and then shoot Raul. And I apologize, trigger warning, when their nine-year-old daughter, Bracenia, starts

• 1:48:38Karen Kilgariff?

  to cry, they proceed to shoot her. So as the three of them leave the home, Gina actually was still alive, but she had been playing dead because she knew that she had to get to 911. So as soon as they leave, she goes to her bedroom, she grabs her husband's gun and she calls 911. I did not listen to the 911, but I did read the transcript and she's essentially just telling him, hey, these people broke into my home, they shot my daughter, they shot my husband. And either they heard her or they forgot something, they come back into the home. Well, like a friggin badass chingona, she shoots. Sorry.

• 1:49:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't apologize. She shoots at them and she actually strikes Jason Bush. So she shoots him and then he runs and then they, they run out. Well, she's able to describe these people very clearly to the police and they're all arrested. Well, during the arrest and trial, Albert, who was there, but didn't actually do any of the murders, he gets life in prison. Now, when Jason's in jail, they actually then tie him to another murder of another Hispanic man in New Mexico. And he gets, and so he gets convicted of that murder and then he also gets the death penalty for the death of Bracenia and Raul. Yes.

• 1:50:04Karen Kilgariff?

  So then Shawna, at first says, oh, I wasn't there because, you know, she was out, I don't know, beauty salon, whatever. So she wasn't there. But Gina and the other accomplices are like, no, you were there. So then finally she says, okay, well, I was there, but I didn't do any of the shooting. I was just there. But they, the prosecution's like, no, you were the mastermind. You're the reason that they're there. You can't incite violence, you can't incite hate and then wash your hands when somebody does something that you basically told them to do. So thankfully, a two-sand jury agreed with that, sends her to death and she's one of three women on death row in Arizona. Oh, fuck. My god. Arizona coming through.

• 1:50:47Karen Kilgariff?

  I have to say, I'm a little bit mad at you right now because you just did that better than any episode we've ever done. Arizona, motorino, tight. So good. So awesome. Let's hear it for her. Yay. Yay. We love it. Yes.

• 1:51:16Georgia Hardstark?

  That was amazing. I have chills, you're crying.

• 1:51:18Karen Kilgariff?

  I cried. I cried.

• 1:51:21Georgia Hardstark?

  I didn't, I'm broken.

• 1:51:25Karen Kilgariff?

  You'll get there, you'll get there someday.

• 1:51:27Georgia Hardstark?

  I cried when I said upper legs, but not when they're just a horrible story. My therapist comes up. Hologram.

• 1:51:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, we're back. Georgia, do we have updates on this hometown?

• 1:51:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, there are updates. So a correction, the murders of Raul Flores Jr. and Bracenia Flores happened in Arivaca, Arizona, near the border, not Port Garitas. And also, since this episode aired, Jason Eugene Bush's convictions and death sentences were upheld by the Arizona Supreme Court on August 16th, 2018. The court affirmed his convictions for two counts of first-degree murder, attempted first-degree murder, and other crimes, as well as his death sentences for the murders of Raul and Bracenia. In 2023, A and E covered Shawna Ford in the premiere episode of Women on Death Row. The episode aired August 4th, 2023, and focused on Ford's conviction, her life on death row, and her continued claim that she is innocent.

• 1:52:27Georgia Hardstark?

  And both Shawna Ford and Jason Bush remain on Arizona's death row.

• 1:52:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, on a lighter note, this episode was originally titled Live at the Revolving Stage at the Celebrity Theater in Phoenix, but we've got some ideas for other titles we could give it now. One is One Whole Rotation. Or of course, Shoes Shoes Shoes Shoes Shoes.

• 1:52:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, absolutely. Upper Legs, obviously.

• 1:52:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Upper Legs, I think is the hands-down winner, but don't forget Stockholm, California.

• 1:52:56Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it. Amazing.

• 1:52:59Karen Kilgariff?

  That's our rewind for this week.

• 1:53:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's go back to the round and say goodbye as we rotate in 2018.

• 1:53:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my god, you guys. Thank you so fucking much.

• 1:53:12Karen Kilgariff?

  This is...

• 1:53:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Who, who are they for?

• 1:53:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Our therapists.

• 1:53:22Karen Kilgariff?

  We unwind them, the stage stops.

• 1:53:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I was just gonna say, I feel like, you know, when you're like on a cruise or whatever and then you adjust to something and like, now I'm gonna have to go and get, well, I'll have my sea legs or whatever, like, whoa, I can only be on a turning thing.

• 1:53:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow, this is so amazing. Thank you, guys, for being such an incredible audience.

• 1:53:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, really good.

• 1:53:49Karen Kilgariff?

  We're sorry it took us so long to come here, you guys. Don't be mad.

• 1:53:54Georgia Hardstark?

  It's really great.

• 1:53:59Georgia Hardstark?

  I love when halfway through a show, I think to myself, oh, we're putting this one up. This is fucking good.

• 1:54:04Karen Kilgariff?

  For real. This is amazing.

• 1:54:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you so much.

• 1:54:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you so much, Phoenix. We love being here with you. And honestly, we say this all the time, but we have to say it because we really mean it. We won the lottery. The fact that this is what our job is now is fucking nuts and it's because of you, guys. Thank you so much.

• 1:54:26Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so nice.

• 1:54:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you and please.

• 1:54:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Please.

• 1:54:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Please stay sexy.

• 1:54:33Karen Kilgariff?

  And don't get murdered. Thanks, you guys. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 1:54:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Calling all amateur detectives and podcast obsessives.

• 1:54:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Virgin Voyages' second True Crime Voyage sets sail March 20th, 2027, for a five-night escape to Grand Turk and the Beach Club at Bimini.

• 1:54:56Karen Kilgariff?

  As part of the On Air at Sea collection, this immersive sailing brings together fan-favorite podcasts, including Disgrace Land, Buried Bones, and Wise Crack, for live recordings, behind-the-scenes access, exclusive meet-and-greets, and crime-themed programming that you won't find anywhere else.

• 1:55:12Georgia Hardstark?

  All aboard our award-winning, kid-free ships.

• 1:55:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to virginvoyages.com/truecrime to secure your spot. Goodbye.

• 1:55:21Speaker 00

  Okay. Laundry stinks, literally. I mean, you could just keep buying new underwear, not that I've ever done that. Or maybe sort your clothes into piles based on how re-wearable or filthy they are. Or just use Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. It's made for real-life stinks and stains. So even if you don't do laundry the quote "right way," Deep Clean will knock it out. I mean, it is from the number one liquid detergent brand that tackles more loads than any other. Come clean with Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. Number one claim based on total wash loads sold. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast, the true crime comedy podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice

• 1:56:06Speaker 00

  it. Each week I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scammed them. I could talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper, like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.