166: Stop Chasing Emotionally Unavailable People | In The Trenches

In this powerful and emotional "In The Trenches" episode, Sabrina Zohar tackles your toughest dating dilemmas with her signature no-nonsense yet compassionate approach. We dive into a listener's story about a man who re-entered her life only to pull away once more, and Sabrina breaks down exactly why we chase "unfinished business" and emotionally unavailable partners. She also answers a question from a woman stuck in a 2-year relationship with a partner who shuts down during conflict, offering crucial advice on when to fight for a connection and when to choose yourself. Plus, we get a profile review for someone re-entering the dating scene later in life and hear from a listener experiencing panic attacks in a new, healthy relationship. Sabrina normalizes dating anxiety and provides tangible tools to self-soothe and expand your window of tolerance. If you're struggling with mixed signals, self-abandonment, or the fear that you'll never find a secure partner, this episode is your guide to breaking the cycle. Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course HERE! Enrollment for The Self Love Course, The Nervous System Course, and The Break Up Course is now closed. For your continued education and growth, please explore The Foundation Course, which is currently available. Get Ad free HERE! Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Get merch for The Sabrina Zohar Show HERE! Don't forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on Instagram and Sabrina on TikTok! Video now available on YOUTUBE! Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formerly known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A. Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Into the wild. The Cartier Panther encounters a shimmering crocodile, a lonely lovebird, a breathless zebra, and a restless tiger.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  Get this. When you're with Xfinity, you're already a member. No sign up, no cost. Score epic experiences from our family at NBC Universal. Plus movie tickets, discounts on streaming, mobile, and more. Check the Xfinity app every Thursday for exclusive perks and experiences only with Xfinity. Now that's the way to start a weekend. Let the magic begin. Restrictions apply. Visit Xfinity.com/membership to learn more.

• 0:45Sabrina Zohar?

  Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to another episode of the Sabrina Zohar Show. My name is Sabrina Zohar and I am your host. Hi, my babies. Welcome back to Bo Niss episode. We're in the trenches. Vee, vee. Makeup is on. Let's do it. We're gonna get down to it. I got questions. I got maybe a profile we're gonna get to, and I'm gonna answer your shit. Now, don't forget, if you guys want me to answer your questions, email [email protected] and we can feature you and help you guys. And guys, as always, please don't forget, rate, review the show, share it with a friend, leave a comment, whatever you guys need, and please speak with kindness. I read all the reviews and I'm here to have a conversation with you guys, but we gotta speak with respect, so don't forget. All right, babies. Without further ado, let's just get right the fuck on into it, shall we? Hi, friends. Welcome back to another week. Okay, I'm excited. I love doing In the Trenches with you guys.

• 1:29Sabrina Zohar?

  I like answering questions. I like helping you guys in a different light and a different environment. So, as always, guys, like I said, email us in. I can only do this show if y'all email in. Now, if you want a private question answered, you know, I got that too. Everything's at sabrinaZohar.com. You can work one-on-one. You could join the foundation course. And you guys are gonna get the heads up that in two weeks, a new masterclass is coming out, so you guys will hear about that soon. But I'm excited. So, we got some newness, y'all. I'm excited. I love growth. I love seeing where we can go, where can we take the show. And I'm just stoked and I'm so fucking grateful for you guys. So, I'll give you, if there's any updates on me. I've been struggling myself, y'all. I've been having this anxiety even around friendships and texting. Like, this shit doesn't ever go- Away. You just learn how to live with it. You learn how to support yourself. You learn the tools.

• 2:13Sabrina Zohar?

  So I just wanted to clarify that. But like, I've had my own shit. I'm trying to figure out my health. I'm still trying to understand like what's coming up for me. And I share this so that you guys realize you're not alone. Again, just because I'm not in the dating world doesn't mean that these issues don't take place in other parts of your life. And a lot of you guys, the stuff you guys write in, like my heart breaks when I read it because I was you. I was talking to my client this morning and I was like, I know this narrative. I know this song and dance because I used to do it. I used to freak out. I used to hyperventilate. I used to hyperfixate. I used to be in that world. And I'm not saying that it ever just like poof goes away. But once you invest in yourself and you actually really start to like show up for yourself, I swear your life will change. Like, my life is changing because of the people I'm meeting and the people that I'm coming into contact with because of the person I'm becoming.

• 2:55Sabrina Zohar?

  Not because anything has miraculously changed. So it's just a reminder to keep fucking going because without your light, it gets really fucking dark out there in the world. And we need conversation. We need to talk. We need to express ourselves. So please know that this is a safe space. And I'm here for you guys. And like I said, if you need anything, you check it all out. And my last announcement before I get into questions. Y'all like to comment about the ads. I've never changed the ads. I've never changed the ad load. It has been the same since day one I started this podcast and started taking ads. And I actually have about 40% less ads than most shows. I get it if it's not ideal. Pay four bucks a month, you can get ad free. And if you don't like that, that's okay. This is a free resource. So you can also just not watch. But to say, too many ads. I don't like it. It's like, I get it. But this is also something that I'm doing with you guys.

• 3:39Sabrina Zohar?

  And so I just hope that you understand that this is also a business. And then part of it is that these ads are really incredible. And I love our sponsors and I love our brand. So please support if you can. And if not, that's cool too. But if you want, you can subscribe at sabrina zoher.com. Just want you guys to know it's an option if you need it. All right, let's get in the trenches. Okay. Hey Sabrina, I'm in a pickle and I need your help. Well, baby, I fucking got you. I've been listening to your show for a while now and it's really helped me realize a lot about myself. So thank you for what you do. Okay. I've been seeing a guy I know from volunteer activism circles for about six weeks. We hang out pretty regularly, one to two times a week, unless there was a schedule conflict, but it's probably been around 10 times, so many that I've lost track. It's always been fun and flirty. We laugh a lot, but neither of us have made a move. Last time, Did pass a movie theater and he suggested we see a movie and I'll said it'll be a date.

• 4:22Sabrina Zohar?

  I don't know though. I don't really want to watch the movie Spaceballs. But that's the most direct discussion of what we're doing. He's a great guy and therapy, successful morals and politics are all in the right place for me. The thing is that he's also going through a divorce, been separated for a year, but finalizing things now. And it's not congenial. And he's also experiencing some grief from a family loss. I also don't know how I feel about him. The special tingle down there isn't there. Sometimes I think I'm having to psych myself up to imagine us kissing. I'm not sure if that's the case of the good feels boring or if I'm trying to convince myself to be attracted to him. I also don't know if he likes just spending time with me because I'm cute and fun and a good time. And I make him feel better during a hard time. I thought about having the are we dating conversation, but I'm hesitant because I don't know what to say. Okay, this keeps going, but I want to even just like take a second really quick to acknowledge like this is really real.

• 5:07Sabrina Zohar?

  And I wanted to just clarify like dating is confusing. I don't know this whole like if they like you, you know, if not, you'll be confused. Like dating is really fucking confusing. I don't know when it's ever just been a clear cut direction. I was with a friend last night and he was going on and on about like how he likes this girl, but he's unsure and going back and forth. And we think that men don't feel and that they are just distancing themselves. It's like, no, he was caught up in his loops for like an hour, going over and over because he was unsure. So like, we have to also accept that people are going through their experience and this is real. Right? It doesn't mean that there's anything wrong. Imagine if the guy that she's seeing came in and was like, am I not good enough? It's like, what does this have to do with your worth where this person is just trying to decide if they're compatible with you? Welcome to dating. That's the fucking point of dating. So I'm proud of you. Okay, now for spicy stuff. Last summer I went on a few dates with this guy, different guy. Let's call him Tom.

• 5:50Sabrina Zohar?

  I did the limerence thing, like I was so, so am into him, over functioning, anxious. I thought I'd done all this work, then I, when I finally met someone I actually liked, I compulsively showed up in ways I didn't want to. I haven't liked someone that much in years. It was a big eye opening for me and was actually when I started to look for help in listening to your podcast. Maybe he picked on it. Maybe he was just struggling with some instability. He lived on a boat, so romantic, but apparently the pirate life is hard. Oh baby, also I was about to say you're romanticizing stuff. It's not that romantic. I know plenty of people that do it. He cut things off and says he wasn't ready to date, couldn't give me what I deserve. I was bummed, but took his word for it. Oh, also we work at the same place, but in totally different spaces and departments. I went the rest of the year, never seeing him at work, only at work, happy hours once in a while. We were cool, chill, friendly. He would text me some- Sometimes, but I never read that much into it. So currently, as I'm hanging out with dude number one, I ran into Tom.

• 6:35Sabrina Zohar?

  I hope it didn't have happened before. Okay, I run into Tom at work during a professional development day. Then he texts me randomly and asks if I want to go on a spontaneous camping trip with him and a buddy at the beach. I'm an adventurous girly, so I said, fuck yeah. Okay, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Did you see the issue here? This boy, I'm gonna call boy, this dude that you were so into says he can't date. And all of a sudden, because you see each other, and then he's like a visual creature of being like, I saw her. I'm gonna text her. You're like, he says jump, you say how high. Okay, let's just notice that. I meet him and his friends at the beach. We have a super fun and goofy time. He and I watched the sunset together with his friend and had deepish conversation about last summer. I apologized about how I showed up as doing too much. He said he didn't even clock it. Okay, that's what I mean by don't project that onto the people. Let somebody tell you what's going on before you take ownership of something that might not be. So there's a campfire and dinner and wine. Boys were drinking tequila.

• 7:20Sabrina Zohar?

  His friend goes to sleep. Our conversations get serious. We're holding hands and kissing, then in the tent making out. Sabrina, I can't describe it, but I am so fucking attracted to this man. Oh, baby, I'm, I feel myself in the tent with you. I know, I know. I'll share my story after. I want him so bad. He's a regular dude, but he just does it for me in all the ways, all the special tingles. Also, part of it might be that I want him to choose me or that it's a challenge and that I want to win or I can't have him. So I want him more. I don't know. I'll ask my therapist. We hook up the next day, we're all sober. The next week, I brought him some tomatoes from my garden after work. He invited me to have lunch with him one day. We did, and it was cute. Later, we sat next to each other at happy hour and had cute, flirty touches and glances. I didn't see or hear from him for the next work week. Then I went to his side of the building to say hi and work on Friday. He asked me out to happy hour. It wasn't a work happy hour, so it was just us. Just one colleague show up for a bit, but it was quick.

• 8:04Sabrina Zohar?

  He bought my drink and as we were saying goodbye and hugging and touching, kind of holding hands, I asked if he wanted to hang out sometime. We had conflicting plans that weekend, but he invited me on a backpacking trip the next weekend. Little adventures like that are so hot to me. He encouraged me to take a day off to make it work and then even invited me on another camping fishing trip the next weekend. So I bought it, thought about it, found a way to make it work, also bought more backpack gear. I reached out again to make plans and he just pulled the plug on everything and said he wasn't ready to date. You wrote fucking Libras. No, bitch. Fucking unemotionally unavailable people. I'm sorry, I gotta say, we gotta cut this bullshit. I say that with love, my babies. This has nothing to do with his sign. This has nothing to do with his attachment style. This has to do with the fact that you jumped in. Head first without having a fucking conversation with this person. And I get it, bitch, I've done it too. Okay, this ain't about shame, this is not about shame, blame, or none of that stuff.

• 8:47Sabrina Zohar?

  But it's about being very blunt and direct about you jumped in without having the conversation of, hey, you lost my trust. We had something and then you kind of pulled the rug out from under me. That's why you want him so bad. This is unfucking finished business. So, did I try too hard or did I scare him away? Hello, core belief. I'm a strong, independent, successful lady and I don't want to water myself down. But I feel like when I actually like a guy, I'm too masculine and not receiving feminine enough and pursue them. I know what I want and go for it, but it pushes men away. Why do I have such a hard time, hard on for the emotionally unavailable guys? And when I'm not attracted to the guys who are in therapy? Also, not sure guy number one is right for me. Should I just swipe the fleet claim and start over? I hate texting and online dating. I don't want to compromise what I'm looking for. And I do have a scarcity mindset about finding another guy that is as, I'm into as much as Tom. Please help. Sorry for so long. We talk so fast, so it should be fine. I fucking love you. Love you so much.

• 9:32Sabrina Zohar?

  And again, thank you for being the angel voice of reason on my shoulder. Okay, so I, we didn't even like put the text because the text didn't really add to this. But I'll say this. Did you try too hard? You didn't have boundaries. And that's, I think, the very direct and blunt thing I have to say. You wanted this to work. It's scarcity mindset. Oh, my God, he's back. Is he choosing me? Could this be it? And you, instead of going, because look what's happening. Your core belief is, was I too much? But yet you didn't take up any fucking space. So how could you have been too much? You were trying to play the cool girl. What is too much about going, hey, you ended it with me before once. I'm not really sure what this is. Why is it that you want to meet up? Are you interested in a relationship? Because if he was like, whoa, whoa, I don't know, I mean, blah, blah. Then you see his bandwidth there then and in that fucking moment that this person can't

• 10:17Sabrina Zohar?

  show up for you in the ways that you need. He didn't, he said it. I didn't even clock it. I didn't even notice. So you're projecting the, I feel like I'm too much. Your core belief, the reason you go for emotionally unavailable men is because of that core belief. You believe you're too much. So you go for guys that, oh, no, we're not going to talk about anything. We're not going to do this. I'm going to play the cool girl. I don't have any needs. It's cool, whatever. You want to go to the beach? You want to fuck? You want to do all these things? I'm cool. I'll come to your side of the building and we'll hang out. Where is you choosing you? You're self abandoning, hoping, okay, this is my chance. He's going to like me. Now we have our opportunities. See, look, he probably knew he missed out on something. First of all, that's really fucking real. That's really human. I'm not shaming you or putting you down for having these emotions and feelings. That is real and valid, but that doesn't make it healthy. And that doesn't make it that that's the choice that we act in.

• 11:01Speaker 00

  In deepest jungle, Cartier's panther spies a wandering bird that circles the skies. A lovebird, lost and missing his mate, is far from his pass in lonely state. Dry your tears, now bears a start. Follow my steps to heal your heart. Panther stalks through the leaves with silent grace. Through the power of scent, she finds the trace. Behold, two lovers reunite in the skies. A most precious thrill sparkling in their eyes. Together forever, they shine each day, bound by the beauty of Cartier.

• 11:45Sabrina Zohar?

  I've had plenty of guys come back and try to act as if it's nothing. And I remember the conventionally handsome guy, I've told you guys about him. I was fucking cuckoo about him and I was talking to my best friend about him who had met him. And she looked at me and she was like, dude, you were getting played. And she's like, that guy led you on so fucking hard. And I remember he would touch me, I would, like, I was coming out of my skin. I wanted to fuck this guy so bad, I couldn't even, and I kept saying, I'm gonna do things differently and I'm not gonna sleep with him. But the reason I was doing that was performative. It's not because that's genuinely what I believed. I wanted to make sure he wasn't gonna do. Okay, fine, we go through the emotional available, we go through the hot and cold. He comes to town, we finally hook up. I felt nothing, I felt nothing. And you wanna know why? Because I started to see him for who he was, not for the projection of who I wanted him to be. It was no longer sexy, I had done the healing work.

• 12:28Sabrina Zohar?

  I had started to, that was the guy, I've said this to you guys before, he, I changed the way I dated after him. Because I realized, wait a minute, this person wasn't gonna change. I set a boundary, I said, no fucking thank you. I walked away from something that didn't align with me. And it had nothing to do with, is he gonna come back? He didn't, he didn't. I reached out to him nine months later, nothing had changed. He was the same fucking version. Because that doesn't change like that. Especially the way this guy went about it. That's why I'm saying, I know you wanted this to be a movie. You wanted it to be a rom-com of like, oh my god, you guys reconnected, you're at the beach, it's so romantic and we're, but baby, this real life. That's what I mean by, don't waste your fucking time. Because you're saying, I don't wanna water myself down, but I feel like I'm too masculine and I'm not. Not receiving enough because these people aren't creating a safety for you.

• 13:13Sabrina Zohar?

  And I understand the masculine feminine polarity, but if you actually want, like, we vacillate between the two. I'm masculine in my career, bitch, I have to be. I gotta go getter. I have to pursue. I have to go. I have to provide. I have to make the money for my household. This doesn't just fall on my lap, but in my relationships, I sometimes might have to do that. And then I can receive and then I can be soft, right? Because I learned how to balance because we all have both. But if you're in constant chasing, chase, it's because you don't believe that anything is going to come your way. And so if you're gonna try to hold on and beg this fucking window to open, you're not seeing the doors that are opening next to you. I don't know if this guy is for you, this other guy. I don't know. I haven't the slightest idea, but it sounds like you're not really giving this to a full college try because you're still hung up on Tom.

• 13:55Sabrina Zohar?

  You still want the idea of somebody else and you're comparing this guy and saying, bad, I don't feel this, I don't feel this. Well, baby, a feeling's gonna fade because this guy, Tom, didn't give you anything that you actually need in a relationship, but you're so fucking hung up on a feeling that you're not looking at reality. Because when you chase a feeling, what do you think you're gonna get? You're just constantly going after a high, which is the same as drugs. When you're going after the high, then what happens when you come back to reality? You gotta deal with reality. And I say that with a lot of love. I don't know if you should swipe the slate clean. I would say, have you kissed this guy? Like, have you been intimate at all? Has he touched you? And I would ask yourself, if he were treating you like shit, would you be more into him? If you're struggling right now because you can't decide, is this person for you or not? I want you to do this. I want you to project your life on a fucking movie. And I want you to imagine, you're in the audience, what are you screaming at the character?

• 14:40Sabrina Zohar?

  Are you screaming at the character to focus, to fucking not fumble this? Dude, it's not that great out there, trust me. Or are you looking at the character saying, you're wasting your fucking time. You know that guy ain't it and you deserve better than this. Start being real with yourself. Because when I was with my partner, yeah, I was unsure. He was super, like, more healthy. He was really into me. And that went against my core beliefs and I tried to find every reason that it shouldn't work out. Which we're actually gonna talk about in the masterclass. If you guys join that, which will be at the end of the month. It's gonna be special. This is gonna be about the texting and dating anxiety. And I'm gonna share a lot of stuff you guys haven't heard publicly or on the podcast, so you guys can join that soon. But baby, I would say this. I know you don't wanna compromise what you're looking for, but I would challenge, do you really know what it is that you're looking for? I know that you are saying, "Oh, I have scarcity mindset and I might never find anybody like Tom."

• 15:25Sabrina Zohar?

  Well, that might be the good thing because Tom isn't emotionally available. This guy is not showing up for you. This guy doesn't have the bandwidth for you. So then let me ask you, what the fuck are you so hung up on? You're hung up on the idea and the projection of him because you have a nice time and the sex is great, but what else is there because you need a lot more, baby, to make a relationship work? I say that with love. All right, let's go to the next. All right. Hey, Sabrina. Hello. I've been listening to you for a while now and I'm deeply appreciative of your no bullshit, straightforward, yet loving approach to loving dating. I'm in a situation that I'm really struggling with. All right, let's go. I'm a deep person who's done a lot of work on myself. I work in crisis counseling. I've gone deep into self-reflection and hold a passion for psychology, wellness, and self-improvement. That's beautiful. By no means figured out, I get that, but I feel like I've got a good grasp on myself and inner workings. I've been with a man right now for the last two years. He's great, so long as I am.

• 16:09Sabrina Zohar?

  The minute I have an emotional need or want to talk about something to pass the surface level, he flails and goes into an avoidant shutdown. I'm hyper-aware of this. Your podcast has helped me identify and name it, but calling him out on his behavior results in gaslighting, crazy projecting, defense, and deflection. He's unable to have a hard conversation and will turn around and tell me that I'm unable to have hard conversations. I'm too emotional and I can't get over things. How do I navigate this? How do I move into repair with someone who's so committed to me being the one who's wrong? I'm usually really understanding and patient with him because I understand his wounding and trauma, but it's getting to a point where I have to negate my own for his comfort and I'm reaching my limits and finding it harder and harder because I'm not being met with the same support or understanding. The answer is in the question, I'm sure. This might not be my person, but I'm wondering if there's any avenue to try before I end things. I know he loves me deeply, but just can't meet me emotionally, help a girl out. Love you and thank you, Keely. All right, baby. What do you think's gonna change? I ask you that honestly.

• 16:54Sabrina Zohar?

  So you're with somebody who literally shuts down the second you have any depth. You're saying, "I'm such a deep person." You're self-abandoning, trying to keep this person. How familiar is this? Did you have a caregiver that was emotionally unavailable? Did you have a caregiver or somebody in your childhood that when the minute you opened up, you were too much, they walked out if you cried, they weren't there for you? They, "Stop crying, you being a fucking baby again." Because you're with this person, you've been there two years, two years, as long as you're good. So your needs aren't met, you're not able to have the conflict or the repair, but you're saying he loves you deeply. And I don't doubt that. Maybe he really does and this is his bandwidth. But what do you think's gonna change? I can't tell you what to do. That's not my job. My job is not to be like, "If this were me, I wouldn't have been two years with this person." I wouldn't have been two weeks with this person. Because for me, conflict and repair is very important. For me, I don't water myself down. I don't play small. I take up the space. And if that doesn't work for another person, that's fine.

• 17:39Sabrina Zohar?

  Go find someone else. It's the same I do with my career, with everything in my life. Because if I'm gonna be so scared to take up that space, then how the fuck am I going to be able to create my own? And so I would say, listen, you could try to talk to this guy and say, hey, I need to share something with you. And I think we're getting to a point where I'm struggling. I think it would be helpful for us to see a therapist or a couples counselor, because I find that I can't say anything. I feel like the minute I bring something up, you shut down. And while I understand that it's hard, having hard conversations is really tough, but I don't feel like we're actually able to make progress. And I do have things that bother me. And I'd love to be able to have a safe space where I can express myself. Otherwise, I'm really struggling this relationship. And I need to be really honest with myself that my needs aren't met. I know that sounds really scary. And I know that you might be like, bitch, I'm not saying that. But then let me ask you, what are you benefiting from staying silent?

• 18:24Sabrina Zohar?

  What are you benefiting from not speaking up? From not saying what it is that you want? How do you benefit from playing small, besides just reaffirming to yourself that you don't deserve to take up space? I ask that honestly. Because I think what you're writing is really real. I think you're having so much empathy and compassion for him. But is he reciprocating that? When he's going through a hard time, is he reciprocating that for you? And saying, because you are, you're holding space for him. You're able to be there for him. But yet, where's that being reciprocated for you? So baby, how do you navigate this? I think it's about being really honest with yourself. But here's the caveat. You really want to navigate this? Then I need you, I need you, to accept that it might not work. I need you to accept that this person might not have the bandwidth and learn that grieving is gonna be part of this. But if you're ready to stand up and say, I'm not willing to take any less than this. Let me ask you this. Do you want to cry now or you want to cry later? You've spent two years with this person.

• 19:08Sabrina Zohar?

  Do you want to spend another two to find out that this person isn't right for you? To find out that maybe you're not gonna have the marriage and the kids that you had been planning? So then let me ask you, what are your choices here? Your choices are, you could stand up for yourself. Your choices are, you could stay quiet and small and just take what he gives you. Your choices are that you can take up and demand the connection that it is that you're seeking. And if this person can't do it, or isn't willing to go to therapy, isn't willing to get help, it's like, then what do you think's gonna change? You can't do the work for both of you.

• 19:37Speaker 00

  In deepest jungle, Cartier's panther spies a wandering bird that circles the skies. A lovebird, lost and missing his mate, is far from his pass in lonely state. Dry your tears, now bears a start. Follow my steps to heal your heart. Panther stalks through the leaves with silent grace. Through the power of scent, she finds the trace. Behold, two lovers reunite in the skies. A most precious thrill sparkling in their eyes. Together forever, they shine each day, bound by the beauty of Cartier.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  Get this: when you're with Xfinity, you're already a member. No sign up, no cost. Score epic experiences from our family at NBC Universal. Plus movie tickets, discounts on streaming, mobile, and more. Check the Xfinity app every Thursday for exclusive perks and experiences, only with Xfinity. Now that's the way to start a weekend. Let the magic begin. Restrictions apply. Visit Xfinity.com/membership to learn more.

• 20:51Sabrina Zohar?

  The harshest reality I learned about being in a relationship is that you can't do the work for the both of you. You can show up for you. You can do the work on yourself. You can go to therapy. You could do all the coaching and all the fucking healing in the world, but you can't change for both of you. And if you have two people in a dynamic and one person is not willing to have conversations, is not willing to face the truth, and is not willing to be in the conflict and the repair with you, then you are in a relationship with yourself and you're either gonna cry now, bitch, or you'll cry later. You get to choose. That's it. I know, we all want it to work, right? But I think, honestly, I think right now we're in a time where we need to start letting things go as well. I'm not saying to like pull the avoiding card of like, walk away and fuck them and if they don't do what you want. I'm not saying that. But what I'm saying is, you gave the old college try.

• 21:35Sabrina Zohar?

  You gave two years of your life to see if this person can step up. How much more of you are you going to sacrifice and give before you realize this person's not reciprocating in the ways that you need? And that's part of it. Part of the hard conversations doesn't mean it needs to turn into a blow up. If that person takes it there, that's where you get to say, hey, I'm not doing this again. I'm not doing this. I'm not going to allow you to gaslight me and manipulate. I will say, I have a family member like that, that the minute you try to go with somebody, you're like, here we go again. Of course, it's always me, right? Like, because they don't want to be held accountable, because for them, and it's not out of malice. It's not like, I don't think this person's doing this because he wants to hurt you. But he sees it as an attack on his character, and he's, and it's like, you can't be with someone like that, long term. Eventually, it's going to get really old, where you're like, dude, I can't, what am I, walking on eggshells? I need to be able to fucking express myself and openly speak.

• 22:18Sabrina Zohar?

  Part of what makes a relationship beautiful is the safety and the autonomy for you to express yourself in it. And if you find yourself constantly playing small and shutting down because you're trying to keep the dynamic of the relationship, then all you're doing is self-abandoning and reaffirming to yourself that you don't deserve any better than this. All right, baby. I think you know what to do. And it's okay. I'll give you permission. You're allowed to choose yourself. And I hope that he wants to work with you. I'm not saying that you have to walk away. I hope more than anything that this guy ends up turning up and saying, you know what? You're right. This isn't working for me. Right? Because Ryan and I went through our stuff. Like, please know, this isn't about walk away from everything. But walk away from people who aren't willing to invest in themselves in the same ways that you fucking are. Because I wouldn't be with my partner if he wasn't in therapy and doing coaching and doing all of the, I wouldn't be with

• 23:04Sabrina Zohar?

  him, because then he wouldn't be growing, and I am. And then at that point, we're not aligned. So just being honest. All right. Hey, Sabrina? Hi. First, I want to thank you for everything you do. It's truly changed my life in so many ways, and will continue to do so. Thank you, baby. So I've recently entered a relation, a new relationship, and had crazy anxious attachment problems in the past, which I've been working on for nearly two years. Now I've met someone, triggers are starting to come up. We'll spend the weekend days together, and then once they leave, I'm crying and having panic attacks. To preface, we'll still be texting on and off or calling some days, but immediately after, I can't shake the anxious, panicky feelings regardless of how much I know she feels about me and the fact that she's not here physically. I know logically, this is ridiculous, but I can't seem to control it or stop it before it happens. She was also quite secure, which is something I thought I was working towards, but this is the second week this is happening. Any advice would be great.

• 23:46Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh, baby. Let me just say, it's so real. Like, welcome to your hurt in relationships, you heal in relationships. And what this is, is your nervous system is going back to baseline of like, they're leaving me, I'm abandoned, right? Like, what I would Say is a couple of things. One, can you get curious about the narratives? Right? Like, by the way, guys, this is why I'm creating like this masterclass and I'm doing this like four week intensive that's coming up in November. So like, stay tuned. That's why I'm doing this, to give you guys like real fucking tools and things along the way. But I would say even just a little bit more like removed. What's happening is that your nervous system is saying the minute that it's looking and saying, oh, my God, we're being left. Oh, my God, they're leaving us. Because what I would look at is one, where are the sensations in your body? So she leaves, you say, I'm having a panic attack, I'm crying. Can you sit with it? Not ruminate in it. Can you sit with it? Can you set your clock for 10 minutes and allow yourself to be in it?

• 24:32Sabrina Zohar?

  Then when the clock goes up, can you start to ask yourself, where did I feel this in my body? It's in my chest, it's in my head. Okay, can I sit with that for one minute? Okay, like, that's the thing. A lot of you guys want to feel better, but we're not learning how to feel. We're trying to intellectualize. Maybe if I just stay in my head. Maybe if I just start to overthink. Maybe if I just try to understand everything that they're doing and I can try to understand why I'm feeling this way, then I won't feel that. Your brain is trying to intellectualize because that's a defense mechanism. When your brain can intellectualize, this is neuroscience, then it keeps you away because what are your secondary gains? Your secondary gains are if you focus on them and you focus on why they're not there and all of the sadness and the tears, you get to avoid going back to the parts of you that are hurting. Because this is a little girl right now. She doesn't know who the fuck this person is. She has no idea who this person is. She sees and she's scared, oh, my God, are you gonna leave me? Because when she leaves, you leave.

• 25:17Sabrina Zohar?

  You start to probably attack yourself and put yourself down, like, what else you want this girl to do? She's texting you, she's being there for you, and it's like, you're allowed to be anxious, by the way. You're allowed to still feel like that. I'll never forget when Ryan and I were dating and we went away. And that's a big moment, right? Your first trip away with somebody. And I remember I got back and I was scared. I was shaking and I was getting sad. And he grabbed me and he said, I can feel your anxiety and I know you're anxious right now. But I need to tell you, I had an amazing time with you and this is the first of many trips. And I know that you're might be sad, but like, please know, I really like you. And how about we do something this week? And I was like, okay. I went home and I was sad and I was crying because my body's baseline was, they're gonna leave me, no one likes me, because we were getting intimate. We were getting closer and that was becoming scarier for me to think that I might lose somebody

• 26:00Sabrina Zohar?

  that finally is showing up in the ways that I've been begging people to. That's why I think it's really human and I want to just normalize it. Like, there's nothing wrong with you. Your nervous system is acclimating in a way. It's used to people leaving. It's used to being the second fiddle. It's used to being people, the one that gets picked. Whatever, right? Fill in the blank. And so now what you could do is start to get curious. I don't want to get rid of it. I want to understand it. So if when they leave, okay, what's the narrative I'm creating? Holy shit. That I think I'm being abandoned. Who am I saying that to? How old do I feel? Like, this is what I do with my clients. This is how I work with people, is really challenging, understanding the thoughts, holding compassion for the thoughts, but understanding the thoughts. Your anxiety and this panic attack, it's not here just because you're bored. It's here because that's an alarm system. So what I would like everybody to learn and to know

• 26:43Sabrina Zohar?

  is I want you to utilize anxiety as a way to alert you that there's something going on that needs you, not as something that you need to get rid of. And the more you resist it, the more it's going to persist. And if you really want to heal anxious attachment or this anxiety around dating, you've got to stop trying to get rid of it and start to fucking understand it. I was anxious this morning. Ryan and I both were. And when we started to talk about it, we realized like, oh, my God, we both had our core beliefs come out. We were anxious about the same thing, two completely different stories and narratives that we created. And it was not even about it. It was like a friend thing that happened last night. And we challenged it. That didn't mean that the sensations went away. I still went through my day feeling heavy, feeling the sadness, feeling the fear. But I allowed myself. And I was like, hey, dude, you're human. You're going through a human experience. It's okay. So that's my permission to you. Whatever you're experiencing now is okay because that makes you who you are.

• 27:27Sabrina Zohar?

  And so please don't be scared that you're going through the sadness or the fears. What you need to remind yourself is, hey, I'm an adult now and I have my back. And even if it doesn't work out with this person, that's okay. And start to look, am I putting them on a pedestal? Am I starting to fantasize and idealize them? And that's okay if the answer is yes. Maybe you're like, I don't really know this person that well. I'm just scared I'll never meet anyone, blah, blah. And then you can say, well, what facts do I have to back that up? What facts do I have to back up that I'm never going to meet anybody? I've met plenty of people up until this point and I will continue to. And so those would be my tips. Obviously, of course, if you're working with a coach, a therapist, whatever, right? Whoever you're working with right now, start to get curious. That's why I love the IFS parts work. Go listen to the Dick Schwartz episode if you have. Great, we're going to have Dick back on again, hopefully. But go listen to that episode so that you can even see like how we do parts work. How do you get curious? And how do you start to show up for yourself in different ways?

• 28:10Sabrina Zohar?

  Self-love doesn't mean that you just get over it. Self-love means that you hold space for the experience you're having. Because look- Look at how he is, right? You're coming to me and I'm saying, "That's okay. That's really human." Doesn't that make you feel, "Oh, thanks, man." Versus if I was like, "Wow, you're a fucking moron, loser. Wow, who's all, "You're hung up on them or you're nervous? You cry, fucking baby." Would you feel supported? You're like, "What is she's a fucking asshole?" So then stop doing that to yourself. Your brain can't tell the difference between physical pain and mental pain. And that's why your brain activates the same parts of your body as if you were in physical pain. That's why it hurts your body. That's why you're having panic attacks. So we need to say, "What's in your control?" Because your window of tolerance, what you can accept is about this big right now. We need to expand it so that when she leaves, you're not falling to hell in a handbasket. You know you have your fucking back.

• 28:53Sabrina Zohar?

  Because whether she's in your life or not, you got you. And I learned that the hard way when Clem passed away.

• 29:02Speaker 00

  In deepest jungle, Cartier's panther spies a wandering bird that circles the skies. A lovebird, lost and missing his mate, is far from his pass in lonely state. Dry your tears, now there's a start. Follow my steps to heal your heart. Panther stalks through the leaves with silent grace. Through the power of scent, she finds the trace. Behold, two lovers reunite in the skies. A most precious thrill sparkling in their eyes. Together forever, they shine each day, bound by the beauty of Cartier.

• 29:47Sabrina Zohar?

  All right, babies, let's do one more. Let's do a profile. I love profile reviews. And guys, if you want private profile reviews, you can send them in for the show. But we do them on sabrina zohar.com. You can purchase one. Like I said, you can ask a question. You can work one-on-one. You could join a course. All courses include free group coaching with Sheila. So every month, you're in a Telegram group and you have your coaching every month. And it's with the group and it's really beautiful. So please just know these are resources if you guys want. And don't forget to share the podcast with a friend who might need it. Because that's the only way I grow is by you guys. So, thank you. And I know, I get it, I could be a broken record. I have my own anxiety. I have my own OCD. I have my own fears. And I appreciate you guys for allowing me to just be myself in my own space. Because sometimes I get in my own head and I start to get in my own way. And I think that's really human. Okay. Hey Sabrina, I'm a new fan and love your podcast. Here's my background.

• 30:30Sabrina Zohar?

  Age 59, married for 20 years, divorced 11 to 2024. So a recent but long overdue. It was mutual, but I left because he was a loser who didn't work a day during the marriage when I worked two jobs. Proud of you, baby. So I am motivated and driven. I have one son who is 19. I never thought I'd be this old and back in the dating scene. Bitch, I say this with love. Change your fucking verbiage. You are this young, my baby. You are giving yourself the second chance. You are allowed to start over again. I don't give a fuck how old you are. So we have got to get rid of that narrative because otherwise I am an old maid who should have been married with kids by now and I'm not. We all have opportunities. You are on your own path. Okay. Let me tell you, older people fuck all the time. It's like level three of a video game. So many divorced people wanting to hook up. I want a relationship, a partner, curling, having a friend with benefits.

• 31:13Sabrina Zohar?

  And yes, I can hear you saying, what are you doing? The breadcrumbs, ugh, at first it was fine, but now I want more and he doesn't. So now I'm, so I know, move on, which I'm doing. That's the dating profiles. And also, I would also really challenge, really Betsy, I would challenge, what do you want so badly from this person? He doesn't want a relationship with you. He's keeping it casual. He's friends with benefits. He's breadcrumbing you. So what do you want so bad? That's where I have to say, we gotta start to look at that because then it's gonna repeat. You're gonna go after people that are repeating this because that's what you think you are deserving. Oh, baby, I'm not saying, what are you doing? I'm fine. You wanna get dick down or vagine down, whatever, right? Whoever's listening. Oh, good fuck. Go have your fun, but you're choosing to do that because you're an adult who's making that choice. So if it's not working for you anymore, that's okay. You could say that, but I would challenge, what do you like so much about this person? What do you want so much about this person?

• 31:56Sabrina Zohar?

  Cause it's like, it sounds like they're more mysterious than they are actually great. Okay. So we got photos. We've got cute, cute. Okay. I'll be honest, you guys will see the photos. The photos are cute. We have two with sunglasses on and one that's far away. I could barely see you. So we need to swap those out because it's too many where I can't really see your face. Then we have all close up. I need a full bod. I'd love to see you with a friend. Like, let's mix it up a little bit because I want them to know who they're getting. Like, remember, it's your comp card, it's your calling card, this is your one opportunity. It's the same as walking down the street. Like, I'm, I'm also tired of people being like, ah, people on dating apps are so shallow. It's like, oh, I'm sorry, what do you think happens at a bar? When you have 10 seconds to look at somebody, do you think that someone is closing their eyes when they? Come up and talk to you? There's a reason they're coming up and talking to you. Because there is a baseline of attraction.

• 32:42Sabrina Zohar?

  So we have to stop blaming the apps for very human responses, which is, I want to be physically into the person that I might be going on a date with. Otherwise, I'd be doing charity work and I would just go out with anybody. So we gotta cut that narrative like, yes, there are a lot of, there are a lot of shitty people out there. The dating apps versus meeting them in real life, it's not gonna be any different. Those people exist because their intentions are the same. I met a guy in person and I found out he was in the apps. Same person, same person. Just because we met at a workout class doesn't mean that it wouldn't be different. So I'm just prefacing all of that. Okay, I want someone who loves going to sporting events, college football, baseball and hockey are my top three. Who are your favorite teams? Okay, baby, I love that you're asking a question. Love that. The way to win me over is making me laugh so a good sense of humor. I would encourage maybe put a joke there. If you want to steal mine, you can. What do you call a pile of cats? A mountain. Ah, okay, take it, steal it, have it.

• 33:27Sabrina Zohar?

  I don't really care. It's a good one, right? Okay, but give me a joke of like, or something, right? Like I heard a good one the other day. Okay, photos are cute. Like I said, I think we could just like tweak a little bit, you know what I mean? Okay, here's the thing. Okay, baby. First, big red flag. You have, what are you looking for? Figuring out my dating goals. And then you wonder why you're getting people that just want to fuck? Take up space, my Betsy girl. Take it up. I, I want a relationship, not interested in casual. Done and done. But that's the first thing. That's the only thing I'd say, well, that's confusing. Okay, to me, relaxation is going for a walk or playing tennis. Being outside relaxes me. Yeah, okay, don't really know what to do with it. I'll be honest, it's like, okay, cool. Did you like being out in nature? And then pick the best one, hiking in the mountains, soaking up the sun on the beach. And then the other one got cut off.

• 34:10Sabrina Zohar?

  So it doesn't look like I have the other prompt. So whatever it is, not a big fan of pick the best one because, okay, hiking in the mountains, soaking up in the beach. It's like, well, you live in California. All right, it's just like kind of very generic, like, oh, you like to go on a hike? It's like a lot of people that go like long walks on the beach. I'm like, I don't really know anybody that like doesn't like sunshine or being outside. Maybe some people, sure, but like on the aggregate, most people enjoy that. So maybe instead of that one, we could say, pick what our first date's going to be. And then when they do that, then you can say, then if they were like, great, like if they pick that. But see, even here, right? As I'm saying, and I'm workshopping this with you guys. Let's say it's pick my favorite date and they pick hiking. That still leaves. The onus on you to then pick up the conversation if they don't. Right? So if they just pick on hiking in the mountains. Okay, what are you gonna do with that?

• 34:54Sabrina Zohar?

  So they like hiking and they're like, hey, what backpack do you buy? It's like, hey, what interesting conversation are you gonna have with this? That's my point is prompts on these apps are meant to prompt a conversation. So if you're not giving, and you did, don't get me wrong, but like I'm saying in general, if you're not giving people something to prompt with, that's like when people ask when they're out, like, how do I start a conversation with someone out in public? It's like, you gotta figure out something about them that you can riff off of. My favorite thing when I was in public was like, if somebody was wearing a whoop or like a wearable or something, I'd be like, oh, is that the new one? Like, what do you think of it? Oh, I love those sneakers. Where'd you get them from? I don't fucking know. Don't make it about their looks. Oh, you're beautiful. Like, ugh, bah. Make it about something about them that is interesting. That shirt they're wearing, holy shit, you like, are you familiar with like that trail? Did you do it? Whatever. Right? It's the same with dating apps.

• 35:37Sabrina Zohar?

  I don't look at it as one or all. I think we're in a time right now where people want, I am done with dating apps. No, I don't wanna see them. And it's like, you're welcome to do that. Okay, how else are you meeting people? Are you getting rejected in person? Are you going out and putting yourself out there? And if your response is, well, I'd rather not date, it's like, take the time you need. But eventually you will wanna get back out there. So it's not about getting rid of anything that makes us uncomfortable. It's about learning how to use the things that make us uncomfortable because they could lead us to something, or you don't have to use it. Right? But right now, I could see why you might not be getting the results you want because it's still very like surface, right? And so there's not a ton of depth. There's not a lot, I know you like hiking in the outdoors. I got that. That is clear to me. What else is there to you, Betsy? What else is there? And I'd be curious to know because then you're giving people the opportunity and be clear about what it is that you want.

• 36:21Sabrina Zohar?

  Don't say still trying to figure out your dating goals when you're very clear that you want a relationship and that's all you want. That's all I'm saying. And there's a lot of people, like you hear of even Betsy, she's saying people in there, like the older people, they fuck and they're not ready for commitment. So for everybody that's like, it's people in their twenties. No, it's not. It's people in their thirties, their forties, their fifties, their sixties, or seventies. It's humans. Cause a lot of people right now are trying to figure their shit out. It's a different time. And that's actually something we talk about in one of the episodes of a lot of people like to compare like, well, men back in the day used to send things in the army and it's like, yeah, but you're comparing a highlight reel to a different story. You're comparing two different fucking books. You're comparing a When people within three years got married, had kids and bought a house versus now where you can't even comprehend that. Within three years, you're barely done with even fucking paying off one year of student debt.

• 37:05Sabrina Zohar?

  So like, we have to stop comparing to a time that was different when you're not in that time and then wondering why you're not happy because it's like comparing somebody's highlight reel to your fucking worst day and then you wonder why you're not satisfied. So we have to look at it realistically that you're right. There can be a lot of people out there that don't have depth, that don't have what it is that you want. That's okay. That's why you're dating to see if they have that. And take the breaks you need. I'm never going to tell you not to. When you're ready, get back out there. Get in the game, baby. You're not going to be able to win if you don't try. So, I love you guys. I hope this helped. I hope you guys like in the trenches too. Please share it with your friend. Please, please, don't forget, rate and review the show. We've got the masterclass coming. We've got this new court, we have a four week intensive with me that's going to be with me, don't worry. And Sheila's going to be part of it, but you're gonna have me that we're coming out with. And so I'm just excited that I get to be able to give you guys different tools, different things.

• 37:49Sabrina Zohar?

  And I'm thinking and very grateful that you guys support me as well because this is the only way I can keep this going. Why do you think I like push back when people like leave shitty reviews or talk about the ads? It's like, this is also my livelihood. This is my business. This is, I'm here showing up for you guys every week, putting myself on the line because I really love what I do. And so with that comes the boundaries around me telling you what there is and asking for the help that I need and giving you the respect to choose what you need. So I'm here if you need me and if not, thank you for listening. That's all I ask is just thank you for being here and showing up as you and allowing me to show up as me. So baby, until next time.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Get this. When you're with Xfinity, you're already a member. No sign up, no cost. Score epic experiences from our family at NBC Universal. Plus movie tickets, discounts on streaming, mobile, and more. Check the Xfinity app every Thursday for exclusive perks and experiences only with Xfinity. Now that's the way to start a weekend. Let the magic begin. Restrictions apply. Visit Xfinity.com/membership to learn more.