Share & Goon & Tell with Desus Nice and Katie Nolan (NSFW)

Since when did we become so constantly confronted by p*rn? And why is that making you so uncomfortable? Plus: goon fuel, goon caps, goon caves, gooning fraud, hentai wankbattlers and miscegenating Starburst. • Further reading: "The Goon Squad" (Daniel Kolitz) https://harpers.org/archive/2025/11/the-goon-squad-daniel-kolitz-porn-masturbation-loneliness/ • Subscribe to "Casuals with Katie Nolan" https://www.youtube.com/katienolan Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Pablo Torre?

  Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre and today we're gonna find out what this sound is. Are you familiar with your WikiFeet page?

• 0:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a 5. I think it's dropped.

• 0:11Pablo Torre?

  You're a 4.97 now.

• 0:13Pablo Torre?

  Is it out of 10?

• 0:14Speaker 01

  Out of 5?

• 0:14Pablo Torre?

  Out of 5?

• 0:15Speaker 01

  How fucking dare you?

• 0:17Pablo Torre?

  Right after this ad.

• 0:21Speaker 03

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• 0:51Pablo Torre?

  This episode is brought to you by Apollo.io. A lot of the stories on this show start the same way. Something that looks pretty simple turns out to be a mess. Once you look under the hood, well, it's no different in the sales world. Your team has a tool for finding prospects, a different tool for reaching out to them, and a third for keeping track of it all. On paper, that's a system. In practice, it's a salesperson spending the better part of the day copying names from one tab into another and not much of it actually selling. Apollo.io is a platform that helps sales teams find the right buyers and reach out to them. It brings prospecting, outreach, and follow-up into one place instead of several separate tools.

• 1:33Pablo Torre?

  It's used by sales teams of all sizes, from small businesses to larger organizations, and it's built for teams who want less manual busywork and more time with buyers. If your marketing and sales teams are trying to work from the same view of the customer, it's worth a look. Sign up for free at Apollo.io. That's Apollo.io.

• 1:59Pablo Torre?

  Yo.

• 2:02Speaker 04

  Just talking about you.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  I haven't seen you in so long. I haven't seen you. Good, fine. How've you been?

• 2:08Speaker 04

  Good, good.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  It's a nice color.

• 2:10Pablo Torre?

  Thanks for coming in, man.

• 2:11Speaker 04

  Thanks for doing this.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  Am I here or am I here? Thanks for doing this like you're the representative of Gooning and you're ready to talk about it.

• 2:17Speaker 04

  Oh, no, that's...

• 2:18Speaker 01

  Thanks for doing this.

• 2:18Speaker 04

  It's very disturbing.

• 2:19Pablo Torre?

  The ambassador from...

• 2:20Speaker 01

  I'm halfway through that article. That is...

• 2:22Pablo Torre?

  It's a lot.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  It's tough.

• 2:24Speaker 04

  It is a lot.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, why not?

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Oh, you don't even trust us to do that anymore?

• 2:29Pablo Torre?

  No, they've taken that.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 2:32Pablo Torre?

  They take the steering wheel from me here now.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 2:35Pablo Torre?

  They really don't trust me.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  This is exactly what I hope for when I open a Halloween-sized Starburst. Those are the two I'm pulling for, and I got 'em. Don't thumbs down me. It's because you can eat 'em at the same time. If you're a real [bleep] freak like me, you take 'em and you twist 'em into like a twisty thing and then you...

• 2:50Speaker 04

  See? Two Starbursts, Mondani's New York. You see it? Starting already.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  Starting already, you guys.

• 2:57Pablo Torre?

  Missegenating Starbursts.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  What? Are we gonna be using words like that this whole time?

• 3:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, listen.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  Missegenating.

• 3:03Pablo Torre?

  I mean, that's what it is legally speaking.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thank you. I burnt myself cooking.

• 3:12Speaker 04

  What were you cooking?

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't remember. I don't do it a lot, but I put my arm up against the side of the oven. You're not supposed to do that. Wouldn't recommend it.

• 3:21Pablo Torre?

  That's a fresh wound?

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was last week sometime.

• 3:23Pablo Torre?

  Oh, I see it now.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Last week at some time.

• 3:25Speaker 04

  They put on like any ibuprofen, like anything on it?

• 3:27Speaker 01

  You were gonna say ibuprofen.

• 3:28Speaker 04

  I was gonna say it. It's not ibuprofen. What's the other thing? It's the, uh...

• 3:32Speaker 01

  I know what you're talking about, but I don't. We both have gum in our mouths too, right? We're both not being good at this.

• 3:36Speaker 04

  Now, Old New York is back, man. Old New York is back. About to spit this on a sidewalk.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  My boy. How was drinking a beer with Kathy Hochul? That's how you say it, right?

• 3:44Pablo Torre?

  Honestly, a pretty good hang.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  No chance.

• 3:46Speaker 04

  I could see it. She had the jacket on.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  No chance.

• 3:49Pablo Torre?

  She was dressed in her Bills regalia.

• 3:51Speaker 04

  She looked like a member of Griselda. I was like, let's go.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  I didn't... I couldn't believe when she said that the... she thought Tax the Rich was Let's Go Bills.

• 4:00Speaker 04

  You know what?

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Kathy, I don't think...

• 4:02Speaker 04

  Every now and then when you have your family together, someone says something whack and everyone just keeps talking? And that was that. You're just like, alright.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Alright.

• 4:08Speaker 04

  Alright, this might be Auntie's last unsupervised visit.

• 4:12Pablo Torre?

  I do, I do, uh, hope Curtis Lee Wasticks around though.

• 4:16Speaker 04

  He's not going in. He's been here since like-

• 4:18Speaker 01

  He lives in the subway, I think.

• 4:19Speaker 04

  I think he was like the second resident in New York. He's not going anywhere. The original Guardian Angels were raccoons, so he's just gonna keep running around.

• 4:26Pablo Torre?

  They're little red berets.

• 4:27Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm. It was cute, until it wasn't.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  It's a hell of a hat. Not seeing fashion risks like that being taken elsewhere.

• 4:34Pablo Torre?

  Um, should we talk about gooning?

• 4:37Speaker 01

  Why not?

• 4:37Speaker 04

  Baby, let's goon.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  Away. I assumed that's what you were doing.

• 4:43Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  I assume we're here to talk about that big gooning bible that was published. The other, the big piece that had everybody talking about the gooning.

• 5:07Pablo Torre?

  The greatest contribution to the Western canon in the history of gooning literature.

• 5:12Speaker 04

  Great and disturbing reporting.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 5:15Speaker 04

  It's just like when you watch National Geographic and you just find out about a world that completely exists and you didn't even know about it.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  I didn't even know they made horses like that, you know? It's like, I didn't even know that was happening.

• 5:28Speaker 04

  The toilets flushed backwards?

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:30Speaker 04

  It's that kind of thing. But now it's just like, hey, do you know everything about masturbation? Turn it on its head and throw it out, cuz we doing something different here.

• 5:38Pablo Torre?

  I wanna describe and define it.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  I think you should. I think you should.

• 5:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  You should do a lot of the unpacking.

• 5:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:44Pablo Torre?

  Well, just to take us back in time, goon as a premise, as a word, meant something very different, I would say.

• 5:51Speaker 01

  In fact, there's a whole hockey movie named it that now I feel like you'd be like, I'm embarrassed my movie's named Jerking Off.

• 5:57Pablo Torre?

  So I should say that gooning, if we're gonna cut to the chase of it, it is not merely like this dystopian form of, I would say, pandemic-inspired isolationism that also has like this strange community that's now truly built around it. A subterranean, almost like, culture around communal masturbating.

• 6:18Pablo Torre?

  There is that, but it seems like the core of it is this knowledge that if your friends and colleagues knew that you were up to this, they would be horrified.

• 6:29Speaker 04

  Interesting.

• 6:30Pablo Torre?

  Like goon world, as it has been described in this, and I gotta say this, this is in Harper's Magazine. Yes.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  I mean, gooniverse, I feel like was right.

• 6:38Pablo Torre?

  That was right there.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  There.

• 6:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, goon world also sounds like the worst amusement park.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Welcome to goon world.

• 6:44Speaker 04

  You're not getting a lot of.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  Watch out.

• 6:45Speaker 04

  You don't want a lot of souvenirs there.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Watch out. Don't sit there.

• 6:49Speaker 04

  The wave pool is different.

• 6:51Pablo Torre?

  There is a term called the goon state.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Mm.

• 6:53Pablo Torre?

  And the gooner goons to reach the goon state.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  I highlighted this. This is where I basically stopped reading.

• 6:59Speaker 04

  The gooner goons to reach the moon state.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  The act itself resembles edging, repeatedly bringing oneself to the point of climax without actually climaxing. But gooning is more goal oriented and more communal. The gooner goons to reach the goon state, a supposed zone of total ego death or bliss that some liken to advanced meditation, the attainment of which compels them to masturbate for hours or even days at a time.

• 7:26Speaker 04

  The gooner goons to meet the goon state. It's like a Kid Cudi song right there.

• 7:31Pablo Torre?

  Day and night, like indeed. Truly, truly day and night.

• 7:35Speaker 04

  And it's like, I guess the gooner state is like a runner's high, they said, right?

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like a runner's high. It's like meditation. It's like a flow state without the flow, I guess.

• 7:43Pablo Torre?

  And what the article suggests is that most gooners do not actually successfully get to, you know, get eight to 12 hours at a time to masturbate regularly. They do that apparently a few times a month, the rest of the time masturbating for an average of two or three hours a day.

• 7:59Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 8:00Pablo Torre?

  So.

• 8:00Speaker 04

  So a little party full for that.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  That's a long time.

• 8:05Speaker 04

  That is.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  Now, we also have to establish, as a woman chiming in on this,

• 8:10Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  that where men and women, I think, differ in this world, in this universe.

• 8:15Pablo Torre?

  There are no women in the goon.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Sure, and that's.

• 8:17Pablo Torre?

  So far.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Oh, here I am being shocked. Really?

• 8:21Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Women can, can finish and keep going. Whereas I imagine if you wanna go for a long time as a man, you have to not, because you can't go and then keep going and going and going a bunch. The way that a woman, maybe I should be saying some women, I don't know, uh, could of like, it doesn't, it's not like once you've, uh, once it's, once the toothpaste is out of the tube, there's no more toothpaste. A woman could do it for hours at a time, just for the fun of it, having a bunch of them throughout.

• 8:55Speaker 04

  Right. No, this is, you gotta do like, you gotta do like the movie Speed.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  It's almost crazy to me to do it.

• 9:01Speaker 04

  You wanna get right there.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  It's crazy to me to do it for hours and not ever get to do it.

• 9:06Speaker 04

  That doesn't sound, I mean, from a male standpoint, that does not sound fun or pleasurable, but I believe that used to be called Blue Balls, but now that's what you wanna achieve, Blue Ball Nirvana.

• 9:16Pablo Torre?

  There is a survey, uh, of gooners that is at the core of this article.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  That's important.

• 9:22Pablo Torre?

  Yes, they, they.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Showing up to the polls.

• 9:24Pablo Torre?

  Harper's Magazine exit polls are terrifying.

• 9:27Speaker 04

  I love how question number six was like, to show you're paying attention, just say pink right here, like.

• 9:34Pablo Torre?

  The survey respondents, about a hundred of them, told Harper's Magazine about the goon state. Quote, "It's like being high while high, intense bliss, pure happiness and love. It's so beautiful, it's sublime, like being washed away. It's like I'm in anti-gravity or covered in liquid, tingle's all over me, brain fuzzy, skin tingling all over. No fears about coming, because this was the real pleasure I was after, and I couldn't come at that point if I wanted to anyway."

• 9:58Speaker 01

  What? Of course you want to. Who's ever like, "I don't wanna come, I don't think."

• 10:02Speaker 04

  This is too good to come.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  I don't wanna come. What do you mean? That's supposed to be the...

• 10:06Speaker 04

  Oh geez, baby, too hot for me to come, like is that?

• 10:09Speaker 01

  I just wanna climb the mountain? I can't imagine.

• 10:12Speaker 04

  No need to check out the viewer.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  You're so close, just get to the top of it, take a peek.

• 10:17Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, they disagreed.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  How does this relate to what Sting was doing in like the early 2000s? Where does this and that interact?

• 10:25Speaker 04

  Tantric sex, because when I worked at the library on slow days, you could just read any boring book. So I read a book about tantric sex, and it basically was like, don't, you don't wanna come because coming is so selfish. What you wanna do is keep transferring energy. And it said, "Think about when a wave hits..." Uh, in the ocean, it's the sand.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 10:45Speaker 04

  It's like that. You come with the energy and you take the energy back.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 10:49Speaker 04

  You keep coming with the energy and take it back. And I was talking about how to do that for like 12 hours with your partners.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  You absolutely tried with whoever you were with at that time.

• 10:57Speaker 04

  What person?

• 10:58Speaker 01

  You were like, here we go.

• 10:59Speaker 04

  Let me ask some girl in the Bronx about tantric sex.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  You were like, come on, we're gonna try.

• 11:02Speaker 04

  Okay, I'll, I'll be on several lists.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  It's gonna be like an ocean and sand. Just stay with me. Uh, we're gonna give and...

• 11:07Speaker 04

  We're gonna refill your energy.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  We're gonna be flowing back and forth.

• 11:10Speaker 04

  I am not Eric Adams, who I know has had tantric sex.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 11:14Speaker 04

  How do we know that? How do we not know that, Pablo? He probably had a shorty in Far Rockaway that he used to have tantric sex with. Rest in peace, there'll never be another. He's not dead, though.

• 11:23Pablo Torre?

  I am, I am, you know what? I am gonna miss that guy.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  I don't know, guys.

• 11:27Speaker 04

  He was like the piece of ginger on the plate, just a palate cleanser, you know? Who's here? Like, all the whole mayor thing, like, all the laws and regulations. Come on, you wanna have a little fun with it?

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Let's be silly.

• 11:37Speaker 04

  Like, let's do a little fraud, but not too much.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  Just a little cute amount of fraud. We'll be silly, silly mayor fraud.

• 11:43Pablo Torre?

  So I should say, the author, in a separate interview, which I did read, because he clarified some of this, the kinds of porn the gooners are making, that is different. So what the gooners are doing is they're not actually making it, by the way, they're not like filming porn themselves, obviously. What they're doing is remixing existing pornography into what they call porn music videos.

• 12:02Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  I thought the genre was dead.

• 12:03Speaker 04

  No, no, they keep it going.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  They're keeping it alive.

• 12:05Pablo Torre?

  Absolutely.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  M stands for masturbating TV.

• 12:08Pablo Torre?

  PMV, they may contain hundreds of separate clips. And in a lot of these videos, apparently, there's a voice that addresses the viewer directly, calling them porn addicts, pathetic gooners, and so on.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Oh, this is deeply layered.

• 12:21Pablo Torre?

  And, and so I think the key thing here, as it is, like, layered, and this is a quote, "What it seems like to me is porn fully and finally detached from any real world, extra pornographic referent. This is porn for people whose primary frame of reference for sex is online porn."

• 12:39Speaker 04

  This is just like the essence of sex or the notion of sex, but it's not sexual or what we know sex to be, or even what we know masturbation to be? It's just like, hey, this is what would make you ejaculate, but I have no desire to ejaculate.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  My fear with all of this content is that, like, A, I don't wanna make anybody who's lonely and masturbates to get through life feel bad about themselves. Stuff's bleak, okay?

• 13:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Feel good how you can. At the same time, being a girl in a video like this that could be watched by a certain community, always not great, so I dress super-

• 13:13Speaker 04

  There you go.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  I look like your little brother today, on purpose, and, um-

• 13:17Speaker 04

  And you know what, there's probably still some gooners out there.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  I know.

• 13:19Pablo Torre?

  That is definitely their specific thing.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  Ah, so I don't want us to sound out of touch. I guess my goal for taking away from this, I want to know if we should be gooning more.

• 13:29Pablo Torre?

  Well, that's not my takeaway from this article. I will-

• 13:33Speaker 01

  Okay, fair enough.

• 13:34Pablo Torre?

  -forewarn you in case you want to cosign the things I'm describing here. The median age of the sexually active gooner-

• 13:39Speaker 01

  Oh, let's guess.

• 13:40Speaker 04

  It's enough to earn the big screens and the servers and the Discord accounts.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  It's, how much is it?

• 13:47Speaker 04

  We're talking like 30 to 40?

• 13:49Pablo Torre?

  27.

• 13:50Speaker 04

  27, okay.

• 13:52Pablo Torre?

  Sorry, excuse me. That's the median age of the sexually active gooner is 27. There are some sexually active gooners, they're 27. The median age of the non-

• 14:02Speaker 01

  It's sex-like, I have to say.

• 14:03Pablo Torre?

  -sexually active gooner, according to this survey, 23. And so, the reason that this observation is made in the piece is that this also does track with like, when lockdowns happened.

• 14:14Speaker 04

  That's true.

• 14:15Pablo Torre?

  And so you had people who like, came of age-

• 14:20Pablo Torre?

  such that they came in a cage.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  They didn't come public, you're not paying attention.

• 14:25Pablo Torre?

  Excuse me, that they did not come in their cage.

• 14:28Speaker 04

  Got you.

• 14:28Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's, that's the bleak part, I would say, among several bleak parts. But yeah, the porn music video culture, PMVs, yeah, are described as, to your point, like, yeah, freebasing pornography.

• 14:39Speaker 04

  It's just too much, too fast.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  So it's a bunch of porns together to music?

• 14:43Pablo Torre?

  In fact, they're edited to like, music, like techno beats, in fact.

• 14:48Speaker 04

  Or like, they'll take the actual music video and then you'll inter-slice porn scenes into the music video. So you'll be watching it and it seems like a regular view, and then next scene will be like hardcore porn, and then just more stuff going on. And interestingly, sometimes those get taken down because of the DMCA, because the algorithm will track it, not because it's porn, but just because you didn't have the right to use the copyrighted music.

• 15:10Pablo Torre?

  Yes, Daru did not intend for Sandstorm to be used this way.

• 15:13Speaker 04

  Like-

• 15:13Speaker 01

  But if they would just open their minds, they could see that it's really-

• 15:15Pablo Torre?

  If they would see the, the wave lapping upon their sand.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  Yes, see the vision.

• 15:19Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, fair use, as it were. Noodle Dude. The homie, right there.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 15:25Pablo Torre?

  Noodle Dude is the 28-year-old Dutch web designer who is like, apparently, the greatest of all of the clip editor, designer, soundtrack adder guys. He is the person who has thrice yearly video drops that are, quote, "received with Swifty-like enthusiasm among the terminal porn addict cognoscenti."

• 15:45Speaker 01

  How mad do you think she'd be if she knew that they called it Swifty-like in this article?

• 15:51Pablo Torre?

  Wow.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  But I get it. Immediately paints a picture. I know exactly what they mean.

• 15:55Speaker 04

  Is he doing multiple edits of like their releases? Like, he's like, yo, catch this one a cappella. This one's like the bass drop.

• 16:01Pablo Torre?

  So what he's known for is, uh, the sucking and/or thrusting in each clip sinking to the beat.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  I mean...

• 16:09Speaker 04

  Small things.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  Artist.

• 16:10Speaker 04

  Listen.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  If you can hit a rhythm like that, and then you're all kinda, your waves are all lapping the shore at the same time.

• 16:17Speaker 04

  It's like Questlove being in the pocket.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  It's exactly, exactly like that. Yes.

• 16:22Pablo Torre?

  Yeah. There are also gatherings. I mean, the community part is where like...

• 16:26Speaker 01

  I've always, let's do this. As, okay, boys, when they discovered porn in our generation, right? Like, it was a mostly physical copy. I mean, there were, like, you guys could download porn and stuff. I don't know that we're all exactly the same age.

• 16:41Pablo Torre?

  No, but it took a, I mean, JPGs were like...

• 16:44Speaker 01

  I was always confused by communal porn experiences. When guys would be like, "Come on over. We've got a magazine or a movie and we're gonna..." I was always confused as a, as a young girl on the outside going like, "So are you all watching it and jerking off together?"

• 17:01Speaker 04

  No, sometimes you just watch it, like, whoa, this is wild. And it's like, yo, you can't believe you got this. And then you're like, whoa, that's crazy. They got three holes down there. And that's not the case. That kind of thing. So, you know.

• 17:13Pablo Torre?

  I mean, I, look, for me, I am all-boys Catholic school, which means that either you're doing that all over the time.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  There's some weird [BLEEP] crazy [BLEEP] going on over there.

• 17:20Pablo Torre?

  All of the time, to be clear.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:22Pablo Torre?

  Or also so repressed that that is also an alien experience.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:28Pablo Torre?

  You get to choose roles. Do you want to be pinged for tournaments? Are you a hentai wank battler or merely a regular wank battler?

• 17:36Speaker 01

  What is a tournament? A goon tournament?

• 17:41Speaker 01

  Is it round robin?

• 17:42Pablo Torre?

  Sudoku?

• 17:43Speaker 01

  Is there a seed? Like a seeding, well, I guess there's plenty of seed. Is there?

• 17:48Pablo Torre?

  Reach around robin.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  Okay, great, great, great. Really good. Is this what the whole thing's gonna be?

• 17:53Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  We just could do these?

• 17:54Pablo Torre?

  More or less.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  The whole time?

• 17:56Pablo Torre?

  More or less.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  What is the drive to do it competitively?

• 18:01Pablo Torre?

  Is it competitively? I think your mileage can vary on this. It is, though, something where you can both exchange and trade and compete at the art of, I guess, pornography collection and, and distribution. As in, like, okay.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  No, I just was pausing at the distribution. I don't, I don't, I was like relatable, relatable, unrelatable. I don't find myself dealing pornography.

• 18:28Pablo Torre?

  I mean, I've-

• 18:29Speaker 01

  The connotation makes me think of bad things.

• 18:32Pablo Torre?

  There's a term here for just like, uh, hold on, there's a, it's a goon cave. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are goon caves. And I suppose the goon caves, uh, and this was staggering for the reporter to, to see and for me to imagine. I didn't, I, what I won't do-

• 18:51Speaker 01

  Is go into the community yourself?

• 18:53Pablo Torre?

  Is, is look up what the goon caves look like.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 18:55Pablo Torre?

  Right. But of, of course, some of them have like walls apparently stained with like, you know, ejaculate and stuff, so.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  Oh, my god!

• 19:01Pablo Torre?

  Things of that nature.

• 19:02Speaker 01

  Ejaculate.

• 19:03Pablo Torre?

  Little man butter allegedly.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  As a noun, it's not-

• 19:05Pablo Torre?

  And it's a lot of monitors as well, right? Yes, so it is sort of exactly what you think it is. Um, a zillion monitors, endless, infinite scroll of, like, dissociative pornography about pornography.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  Communal experience of porn and masturbation is something I think generations behind us are more open to and comfortable with than, uh, not saying that all can't be, it's just to us, it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I think even mentioned in the article is that like, when they're describing these goon caves that they built for themselves, you would think they would be mortified by like, I hope nobody ever finds out I built this room specifically for porn. But instead, they're actually very proud of it and they show it off online. And like, that to our generation is like, that's, uh, which I think is- Good?

• 19:54Speaker 04

  Seems better.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  Is a step in a direction of like de-

• 19:57Pablo Torre?

  Stigmatizing.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  Stigmatizing sex and our relationships with our bodies?

• 20:02Pablo Torre?

  I think there is the possibility of that, but that possibility has been truly, I think, overwhelmed by the infinite nature of all. So feeding is the term for when one gooner sustains another's session by sending them curated porn from their private collection. It's meant also to be referred to as goon fuel. You know, these are short clips, sometimes they're gifs, uh, goon caps.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  It's an assist.

• 20:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:32Pablo Torre?

  That's right.

• 20:32Speaker 04

  You gotta look out for the homie. It's like when you play Call of Duty and someone's goes down, you know? Gotta revive the HVT.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.

• 20:40Speaker 04

  Keep fighting, keep gooning, that kind of thing.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Sending you, knowing that you're maintaining some sort of a state and going, this'll keep you there.

• 20:49Speaker 04

  Keep going, my guy.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  It's like a bar, sliding it across the-

• 20:52Speaker 04

  It's similar to the New York Marathon, this app.

• 20:55Speaker 01

  So right.

• 20:55Speaker 04

  People running by, they got this, "Keep gooning! John, come on, you're almost there, but not there."

• 21:01Speaker 01

  A pornographic orange slice.

• 21:02Pablo Torre?

  That's right. Instead of white cups of water, it's just goon caps.

• 21:07Speaker 04

  And it's so weird because if you remember back in the day in porn, they would have that button you were terrified to ever point, the share with your friends. And you're like, "Wha- excuse you? What? No."

• 21:16Speaker 01

  It's like, in what world?

• 21:17Speaker 04

  They're like, "Hey, attach this to your Facebook account, and we're sending it to everyone you know, increasingly, Graham Graham." And you're like, "No, no, no, no, no." But now, apparently, it's like, I guess it's bad if you don't share something with your friends.

• 21:28Pablo Torre?

  So I do wanna acknowledge something that I've done a bad job in introducing to the framework of our conversation, which is that Desus has a professional experience in this industry.

• 21:36Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  Wait, what?

• 21:38Speaker 04

  I've had every job in the world, come on.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  I know that, and maybe I do know this.

• 21:41Speaker 04

  Yes, I used to work in the porn industry. I used to be in charge of the back end of server administration.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Sorry, I'm so sorry, sorry, you're right.

• 21:49Speaker 04

  Are we gonna be adults?

• 21:51Speaker 01

  No.

• 21:52Speaker 04

  The backend and server-side encryption for processing of credit cards for CC bill. So I used to work with all the porn and all that stuff, like terabytes of porn. And even then, I was like, wow, this is a lot of porn. This is, but now, like you just said, there's way too much porn. Like, you'll open Twitter, and it's just like porn where I know as a teenager I would have had to kill to even get a peek at, is at the point where even, I'm like, damn, let me mute this.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  I'm also like, don't make me have to scroll past it. I'm a human.

• 22:22Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  If everyone's going, this is crazy, I'm gonna go, what's crazy? And then I'm gonna go and I'm gonna look and see like, oh, wow, that guard at the prison is having sex with all those inmates. And then I'm watching it and going, what am I doing? I was coming here to do something else. What am I, I'm watching full penetration on my timeline. And then you know, because you clicked on it, it's gonna keep being, and you're like, I can't be every day. I can't imagine being, I mean, I'm getting up there in age, so I'm less sexually, I don't care as much anymore. But if I were younger and needing to focus and constantly being confronted by porn, I'd be like, I can't get anything done.

• 22:56Speaker 04

  Yeah. It's like yesterday, I'm on the train, I'm trying to see the results of the election. Just the biggest booty, just gaping, just seeing, just seeing the rubber balloon knot. And you know, like, I scroll up because I don't think anything of it because I know my feed and every, I know every now and then it gets nasty.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:12Speaker 04

  And I look to the right of me.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 23:14Speaker 04

  And this Mexican grandma, she just looks at me like, I'm gonna pray for you.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 23:18Speaker 04

  She's just like, you out here just raw dogging, big booty butt cheeks on the A train. And I'm like, Madonna's New York, ma.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  Get used to it, babe.

• 23:35Pablo Torre?

  This message is brought to you by Apple Card. With Apple Card, you earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases, like groceries, or merch, or tickets to the game. Plus, it can be used anywhere MasterCard is accepted. No matter your team, no matter where you shop, Apple Card is here to help you tackle game day. Apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank, USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com.

• 24:08Speaker 05

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone. And including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save, too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 24:45Pablo Torre?

  Twitter is established in the story, too, as like the place where you do just encounter uncut hardcore pornography.

• 24:52Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 24:52Pablo Torre?

  Like TikTok, there's, of course, like all sorts of things that are erotic.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  I don't think I've ever bumped into any TikTok porn. I have bumped into stuff that I'm like, this is something for someone.

• 25:00Pablo Torre?

  Oh, yeah, Instagram, TikTok, they're all like trying to lure you into like clicking in the page that gets to you to the person's like OnlyFans or something.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  Someone goes, check out the, or they'll do a lot of like this life hack. And they're doing something that you're like, what could this have to do with anything? And you watch for 15 whole minutes and it turns out, nothing. They needed you to stay for 15 whole minutes and they wanted to keep making it look like the thing they were doing was going to be worth something. That's some type of edging. I don't know what the edging is, but it's some type of edging.

• 25:26Speaker 04

  TikTok has like porn that's like tricky porn. The one thing they had, I remember, I don't know why the algorithm was showing this to me. I was like, come on, this is basic stuff. They kept showing this lady and she would get in the car and clap her thighs together. Every day. And guys were like, oh my God, this is great.

• 25:41Pablo Torre?

  But she wasn't presenting it as pornographic, she just happened to be doing that.

• 25:45Speaker 04

  She just happened to be doing that. Nothing else on her account, just clapping her thighs together. Now I'm insulted because I'm like, what do you think? I'm a level eight? Come on, man.

• 25:54Pablo Torre?

  This is a cardboard box with a stick holding it up?

• 25:55Speaker 04

  I'm like, come on, I beat my meat to some of the nastiest stuff alive. Come on, step it up.

• 25:59Pablo Torre?

  This is a bunch of leaves over a hole in the forest.

• 26:00Speaker 04

  But they have, another one they have is where a woman will drop her phone and then pick it up.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:06Speaker 04

  And unfortunately, she's got to wear panties.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  I'm getting none of this content.

• 26:12Pablo Torre?

  Oh, yeah, me neither.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  It's good stuff.

• 26:14Speaker 04

  You know what it is? If your heart is pure, the algorithm knows.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  Isn't it funny that, you know, when porn, online porn first started? Becoming what it is. I was like, well, the younger generations, if you can get whatever, if you could just type in Peter Griffin, Lois Griffin sex and see it.

• 26:31Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  At what point are you gonna just go like, none of this is doing it for me? And I thought that was gonna get everything like crazier. And what's funny is that it also feels like it's made people go like, oh, I get off when this lady gets into her car and her thighs slap together. Cause like porn is easy to find. It's really hard to find a lady who's just gonna slap her thighs together for me.

• 26:50Speaker 04

  And now people are just, I think, as you're saying, and the internet is just connecting other people.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:55Speaker 04

  So like, maybe like 20 years ago, you were like, yo, I'm a sicko. I love when the thighs touch.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 27:00Speaker 04

  Now you go to Discord.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Full community.

• 27:03Speaker 04

  And you go slideshutgooning.com and there you go, you and your other thigh-slapping brothers.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  Feet people were the first, they were the canary in the coal mine.

• 27:10Speaker 04

  They were.

• 27:11Speaker 01

  Cause they were loud online. And I remember being like, whoa, this is a niche community. You guys are very confident and comfortable.

• 27:16Speaker 04

  Very confident.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Wrong of me, but my first experience of being on sports TV and the amount of like sexual foot stuff that was sent to me from real names on their real accounts. And I remember being like, you guys are out here. And then I learned that it's because, I mean, they were probably the most underrepresented in terms of like anyone trying to meet their needs. And when the internet happened, they were like, these people don't even realize they're posting porn for us when they post their feet. So they probably made, built a community around it, a strong community. And they were confident. And I went, that should have been how we knew, like it, people will find people who are into the thing they're into and it will make them feel more safe.

• 27:56Speaker 04

  It's funny, you'll have like a friend on Instagram and say, they go to the beach and they just accidentally post their feet.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 28:02Speaker 04

  And they're just like, hey, I'm just posting feet. And you're like, posting feet for free? Like, or you're like, girl, take this down.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  Blur that.

• 28:06Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  Pixelate that.

• 28:08Pablo Torre?

  Are you familiar with your WikiFeet page?

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, it was a five. I think it's dropped.

• 28:12Pablo Torre?

  You're a 497 now.

• 28:14Speaker 04

  Is it out of 10?

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Out of 5?

• 28:16Speaker 04

  Out of 5?

• 28:16Speaker 01

  How fucking dare you?

• 28:18Speaker 04

  I don't.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  How fucking dare, no, I, um, there's also a picture on there that isn't my feet that I've been trying to get taken down.

• 28:23Pablo Torre?

  I was gonna say, there's 65 photos here.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 28:26Pablo Torre?

  And several videos.

• 28:27Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 28:28Pablo Torre?

  Which one isn't your feet?

• 28:30Speaker 01

  Uh, it's early. It was, uh...

• 28:32Speaker 04

  How recent is the latest one?

• 28:34Speaker 01

  Uh, which one's the latest? Is it at the top? That's old. That's way, way, way old. That's...

• 28:39Pablo Torre?

  Oh, there's a, there's a comment section?

• 28:41Speaker 01

  Oh, what are they saying?

• 28:42Pablo Torre?

  Okay. 11/5, this is today.

• 28:45Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  What the [bleep]?

• 28:48Pablo Torre?

  Okay, here we go. Love, okay, L U V W M S feet.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  Love women's feet.

• 28:54Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, gorgeous toes.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  I don't know about that. My, the second toe is shorter than the first toe. I know that's a comment, sometimes people have their second toe is longer and people are really into that and it shows intelligence, not me. My toes go in like a, like a, like service bars.

• 29:11Speaker 04

  I'll be honest with you, I know nothing about feet, I find them disgusting.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 29:14Speaker 04

  I just.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  I don't want them around, I don't want them.

• 29:17Pablo Torre?

  Someone who disagrees is the next commenter, ToeTied.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:20Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:20Pablo Torre?

  Who says, uh, "She is smoking hot, needs some pics of her soles with toes pointed." Dot, dot, dot.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Specific.

• 29:26Pablo Torre?

  "I bet she has fantastic sole dimples."

• 29:30Speaker 01

  What is that?

• 29:32Speaker 04

  A shy stripper, but she's really coming to come out tonight.

• 29:36Speaker 01

  Give it up for sole dimple.

• 29:39Pablo Torre?

  So, the sort of kicker of the article, so to speak, it's that at a certain point, the author hopes that the thing that will free the gooner from his goon cave, that will quote, "open his eyes", is the feeling that this room filled with a zillion screens, with specially edited pornographic music videos and lube, that it will begin to feel boring.

• 30:06Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 30:07Pablo Torre?

  And that the boredom of quote, "staying in that room", may eventually outweigh the fear of whatever lies beyond it.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 30:15Pablo Torre?

  Which is to say that can the gooner become so numb to his goon fuel, to the goon caps, to the PMVs, to all the things that seem like they are designed to stimulate? The most sort of like thick hide that the pandemic built on America's youth, the world's youth, that yeah, they too will find that not enough and they'll turn to the outside world.

• 30:39Speaker 04

  This felt kind of bleak and it just felt like, hey, this is where we're all at now. And now, if you came into this article and you didn't know about this, now you know about it and it's going to bother you and guess what, you're part of it now and you can't escape it. And now you're burdened with this information. And I feel like at the end of the article, it's like the camera just zoomed out and you're sitting there like, whoa.

• 31:00Pablo Torre?

  My hope and my market hypothesis for what happens is that the pendulum is gonna swing all the way back. And we're gonna go back to like

• 31:09Speaker 01

  chastity belts?

• 31:11Pablo Torre?

  But like, old porn.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  Like, physical media is coming back.

• 31:14Pablo Torre?

  Physical media? But like, truly like vintage pornography is going to become valuable. Because it feels like it's the opposite of the always on, constantly streaming. It's like how books are cool. Small batch pornography.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  I don't, again, I don't wanna shame anybody because I do think better than-

• 31:33Pablo Torre?

  I actually want you to shame them.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  Oh, that's true, so that's why I won't be doing it.

• 31:36Speaker 04

  For free, for free 99.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  You can pay me if you wanna feel shamed by me. But I also just feel like it's better, I mean, of all the ways that this could be, I'd rather you take it out on yourself. Do you know what I mean?

• 31:48Pablo Torre?

  There's a whole subsection in the article about like, people like mangling their own penises to like, prevent ejaculation.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  Wait, wait. What's so bad about coming?

• 32:00Pablo Torre?

  Because-

• 32:01Speaker 01

  It's over?

• 32:02Pablo Torre?

  Hold on, let's think about that, that's pretty deep.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Is that what it is?

• 32:06Pablo Torre?

  Well, there's, there's a whole thing here about like, what they're afraid of. And it's about like, having to contemplate what the other person is feeling, like, are they into this? Are they not? And like, they find that very anxiety inducing.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Which is a little anxiety inducing.

• 32:20Speaker 04

  I mean, that's kind of this, the new generation because of COVID and everything.

• 32:23Pablo Torre?

  So this one gooner gave the writer a few stated reasons for his porno sexuality, as it's called. "One is a fear of STDs. Another is a standard issue performance anxiety." This is what he says. "It turns out that what most frightens this particular gooner about sex is the impossibility of ever knowing what's really going on in your partner's or anyone else's head. What if she's bored by what he's doing but too polite to tell him? Worse, what if she's uncomfortable with the entire situation? How could he possibly know? I just feel like it's exhausting," he says, "for both parties."

• 32:55Speaker 04

  The way they're saying it is like the idea of not being able to get inside of the person's head, you have to think- They can't even start a conversation in person.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:04Speaker 04

  Like, so if you can't do that, it's just like...

• 33:07Pablo Torre?

  They just wanna jizz on these walls.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  No, they don't, is my problem!

• 33:10Pablo Torre?

  Infrequently.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  I wanna know, if they were like, "I jerk off all day, I jizz all day," I'd go like, "Dude..."

• 33:16Speaker 04

  That's what I thought it was.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  I get it. I get it. Sometimes you're just like, looking at your feet and you're like, "Let me just go feel really good for forty..." Feet? Sorry. Like doom scrolling?

• 33:26Pablo Torre?

  I heard "feet." I was like, "Katie, I heard feet." Katie's own personal ranking is definitely five stars.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Ew, imagine if I were into guy feet. That's just guy feet Eddie.

• 33:37Speaker 04

  Show me those Fred Flintstones.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  No, I just feel like, I could, I at least, I understand it more if there's, if there's a climax. I understand it less when it's like delaying the climax to never. To always try to sustain a feeling of being about to climax, which to me would be like feeling like I have to sneeze all the time. That's torture. I'd be like, "Just achoo! Just let me achoo!"

• 34:11Speaker 05

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone. And including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 34:49Pablo Torre?

  At the end of every episode, Pablo Torre finds out a show about finding stuff out. We go around the table and say what we found out today. And Katie Nolan has rested her forehead against the microphone.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  I hate this part.

• 35:00Speaker 04

  Which is also a terrible visual.

• 35:03Pablo Torre?

  That has already been, I think, included into various PMVs.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  It tests my short-term memory, and we know it's not good. So I don't remember what we talked about at all, all episode. I was reminded, today I was reminded, which is like finding out, it's re-finding out, that Desus worked in the porn industry.

• 35:21Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  That is what I found out again. I definitely knew it.

• 35:25Pablo Torre?

  Desus, what did you find out today?

• 35:26Speaker 04

  What I found out today is a little heartwarming, because reading the article about gooning, and I was like, wow, this is so diabolical and dark, and Katie comes, and she's like, you know what? There's an epidemic of loneliness, and there's people out there that if they need this to get through life, maybe it helps them, and I've never stopped and thought about that. And it could possibly be the silver lining to gooning. Like, perhaps it does help people, perhaps it will provide something for people who are missing something that we don't see. And this could actually be a start of a community for people who need this kind of thing. Like, while we're here, like, grossed out and everything, this might, God forbid, save lives, like, a goon a day keeps a doctor away, and, you know, if that's what...

• 36:10Speaker 01

  I don't think that's true, I just have to say, I don't think, I don't think if you goon every day, the doctor doesn't, you should still go to the doctor.

• 36:15Pablo Torre?

  If I'm gonna bet on anything, what I found out today, is that, you know, getting off on some, like, old-fashioned pieces of paper, that's gonna be cool again.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  I just don't want any gooners to, like, kill themselves. I don't want them to watch this and go like, wow, I really am pathetic, and then kill themselves, you know what I mean?

• 36:33Pablo Torre?

  I think that's probably the thing they would love to hear the most, once again.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  I don't understand.

• 36:40Speaker 04

  And then it's also, I guess, if you're a gooner, you don't, because, like, people have that fear of, like, if I die, people find this in my apartment, they find this, these people don't care, they're like, oh, you wanna make sure all the monitors are on, you wanna make sure everything's blasting, like, you want the monitors to keep going forever in memorial of you. It's like the eternal flame at all these ceremonies.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Leave these on.

• 36:59Speaker 04

  The goon flame.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  Keep paying my electric bill.

• 37:02Speaker 04

  Come by and pay respects.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  Keep this on. That's very funny.

• 37:05Speaker 04

  Live by the goon, die by the goon.

• 37:07Pablo Torre?

  Goddamn.

• 37:08Speaker 04

  21-shot salute, and it's quite different.

• 37:11Pablo Torre?

  What Katie Nolan found out today is that she just wants all these gooners to finally just come.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Just come!

• 37:16Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  Come on, babe, just come.

• 37:18Speaker 04

  Just come.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  You've got all the porn on earth, you've got your hand on your penis.

• 37:23Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  Go through with it.

• 37:34Pablo Torre?

  This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Meadowlark Media production.

• 37:40Pablo Torre?

  And I'll talk to you next time.

• 38:01Speaker 05

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone. And including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save, too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.