Still Bobbi: Bobbi Brown on Reinvention, Midlife Entrepreneurship & Finding Purpose After 60

What does it look like to begin again at 62 and thrive? Beauty industry pioneer Bobbi Brown joins Dr. Mary Claire Haver for an intimate conversation about her new memoir Still Bobbi, building Jones Road Beauty in her sixties, leaving behind the company that bore her name for 25 years, and redefining what success, purpose, and aging mean in the second half of life. Bobbi Brown revolutionized the beauty industry with her "no makeup makeup" philosophy in the 1990s, sold her company to Estée Lauder, and spent decades as creative director before exiting in her late fifties. But instead of retiring, she launched Jones Road Beauty at 62 during a pandemic, proving that passion and entrepreneurship don't disappear with age, they evolve. In this personal conversation, Bobbi shares her journey from Chicago to building a global beauty empire, the emotional reality of leaving the company with her name on it, and why she refuses to use the term "anti-aging." She opens up about growing up with a mother who struggled with mental illness, losing her brother to HIV, and how weighted vest training and strength over skinny became her midlife mantras. Dr. Haver and Bobbi connect over shared experiences of menopause, hormone therapy, and the relentless pressure of being a founder. They discuss what it means to perform when exhausted, learning to say no, and why the maintenance phase of any transformation whether weight loss or career pivot is often the hardest part. Bobbi's memoir Still Bobbi is a story of resilience, grit, and determination for anyone who thought their best work was behind them. Guest links: Jones Road Beauty https://www.jonesroadbeauty.com/?srsltid=AfmBOopLjve3zbO1X2oRCNqetvAy52RU-wvLwTpEridUTPVb9Yo26rVy Bobbi Brown https://www.instagram.com/justbobbidotcom/?hl=en (Instagram) Bobbi Brown https://www.threads.com/@justbobbidotcom (Threads) Bobbi Brown https://www.tiktok.com/@justbobbibrown?lang=en (TikTok) Bobbi Brown https://www.linkedin.com/in/justbobbibrown/ (LinkedIn) Bobbi Brown https://www.facebook.com/JustBobbiDotCom/ (Facebook) Bobbi Brown http://justbobbi.com/ (Website) Jones Road Beauty https://www.instagram.com/jonesroadbeauty/?hl=en (Instagram) Jones Road Beauty https://www.facebook.com/jonesroadbeauty/?locale=en_GB (Facebook) Articles High-Impact Mechanical Loading Increases Bone Material Strength in Postmenopausal Women-A 3-Month Intervention Study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29578618/ (Journal of Bone and Mineral Research) Other Resources Institute for Integrative Nutrition https://www.integrativenutrition.com/ Miracle Balm https://www.jonesroadbeauty.com/products/miracle-balm?srsltid=AfmBOoqgWvrhlKdVCi-SPYflc_9LaU4beZVe5zJ1VWySyDwLGRBYF7Ez (Jones Road Beauty) Bobbi Brown Teaches Makeup and Beauty https://www.masterclass.com/classes/bobbi-brown-teaches-makeup-and-beauty (Masterclass) Diane von Furstenberg: Woman in Charge https://www.hulu.com/movie/diane-von-furstenberg-woman-in-charge-95fb421e-b7b1-4bfc-9bbf-ea666dba0b02 (Hulu) American College of Culinary Medicine https://culinarymedicine.org/health-meets-food-the-culinary-medicine-curriculum/american-college-of-culinary-medicine-offerings/?srsltid=AfmBOopZZl6bL5n7I8mFKCEBZ9zuKEVgdBJ_qSoqdG8frvtoy0eP3Pgv <a href="https://www.jonesroadbe ...

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Still served ads that are anti-aging and it drives me crazy.

• 0:03Speaker 01

  There isn't such a thing.

• 0:04Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  No.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm older now than when I first arrived here. Like, there's nothing that's going to anti-age you. There's things that will age you quicker, like smoking and not wearing sunscreen and stress and bad food and, you know, all that kind of stuff. But I'm a liver. It's, you know, I'm not looking to, to use the term anti-age at all. I just, I want to be more vibrant. And I do that through makeup and I do it through what I put in my body and I do it through positive attitude.

• 0:41Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  When I opened Bobby Brown's new memoir, Still Bobby, the very first sentence stopped me in my tracks. "I won't want to work when I'm 60." I laughed out loud because 30 years ago, those were my words too. I thought 60 would mean retirement, grandbabies, slowing down. What I never imagined is that now at 57, I feel like this is the most productive, impactful, and fulfilling time of my life. That line resonated because it revealed how deeply we underestimate what purpose and passion can look like later in life. When I first saw Bobby launch Jones Road Beauty, I remember thinking, "Does she really need to do this? Why did she take this on?" And then I realized, we don't create just for financial reasons.

• 1:24Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  We create because passion and purpose don't disappear with age. I met Bobby at a business summit where I was an invited speaker. She was standing in front of a table filled with the Jones Road line. And I'll never forget the image, this incredible icon in the beauty industry. No entourage, no assistant, just Bobby herself, talking to women, answering their questions, and introducing them to her products. I had this moment of recognition. She's just like us. And then I opened my swag bag and found some of those products and I dove right in. What struck me was, she made these products for us, for women of a certain age, for skin that gets drier in menopause, for faces where powders can settle into fine lines. Her creams were exactly what my skin needed. And the brow product is genius.

• 2:10Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Not only are my brows going gray like the rest of my hair, but the texture is changing and suddenly I needed help getting them to behave. That's the brilliance of Bobby. She sees us. She creates for us and she's not slowing down. Reading her book and seeing how she's built this next chapter has been a joy and I am so excited to share the conversation with her today. I'm Dr. Mary Claire Haver, a board certified obstetrician and gynecologist and certified menopause practitioner, and also an adjunct professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of Texas Medical Branch. Welcome to UnPaused, the podcast where we cut through the silence and talk about what it really takes for women to thrive in the second half of life. The views and opinions expressed on UnPaused are those of the talent and guests alone

• 2:55Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  and are provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. No part of this podcast or any related materials are intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. So, welcome to UnPaused.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  I'm so happy to be here and so happy to see you again.

• 3:13Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So, let's just go back to the beginning. Tell me a little bit about your Chicago roots and the journey that got you to New York City.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Well, you know, certainly writing this memoir has been cathartic because I went back and thought about what my life was like when I was a kid and who I got to observe doing things. So, I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago. I was the oldest of parents that were 20 and 21 when I was born. By the time they were 25, there was three of us kids living in the suburbs. Pretty normal upbringing. And then eventually we moved and things started falling apart, like one by one. But I look back at my childhood and I don't think I had a complicated, you know, hard childhood. I think I had a wonderful, loving childhood and things just happened.

• 4:00Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You tell this great scrappy story about your grandfather and how he was, you know, came over on a boat from the Ukraine and built his own business. How do you feel like that helped you develop your...? Story.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Well, Papa Sam was this incredible guy, very, very, very short man, very sweet man, very rough on the outside, tough guy, but inside he was a mush. And I used to watch him, how he would talk to his customers and how he respected everyone the same, that it didn't matter who you were, if you were a person that came in, you were treated the exact same way. And so I saw that. And I used to help Papa Sam stuff his envelopes and mail them out to all of his customers. And I would look at his brochure. So I didn't realize that I was learning about business, customer service.

• 4:53Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  And marketing.

• 4:54Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You met your husband, Steve, and there's a theme throughout the book of what a rock he has really been in your life. I think I'm married to Steve.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 5:05Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  You know, we're lucky. And by the way, I've been married 37 years. I'm so lucky, but it's not easy.

• 5:11Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  No.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  You know, I mean, nothing is easy. Raising kids, being a, you know, working mom, being a working woman, nothing's easy. But that doesn't stop me from putting things into it. I love my husband. He's always there for me. He calms me down. He also is a dream catcher. Do you want to open a store here? Okay, I say. And we go over with a roll of tape and all of a sudden we've taped out where things go and he starts building it.

• 5:37Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  That's amazing. I'm one of eight kids.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 5:39Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And my oldest brother died of leukemia when I was nine, so our family kind of took a tumble. My next brother came out of the closet when he was 16 and he was heavily, heavily into makeup. He was actually friends with Kevin O'Quinn.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 5:54Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah, so they went to high school together.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 5:56Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And I was his muse.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 6:00Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You can imagine, in full drag, basically at nine years old. I mean, I was contoured, highlighted, bowling alley blue eyeshadow, big frosty lipstick. What he thought of was glamorous and beautiful at the time. But he actually tried to make it as a makeup artist in New York and moved up here in the eighties.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:17Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Um, I was in high school and he came home within a year. Yeah, it was a tough situation. You know, I think HIV was coming and he, he wanted to be home, but he, he tried.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 6:29Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And I have lots of great pictures of him in Studio 54.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 6:32Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Um, looking very glamorous, but um, he did come home after a year and he was super successful at home. He

• 6:38Speaker 01

  What did he do at home?

• 6:39Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I call them a Jane of all trades. Like, he was a really accomplished chef. And so he did a lot of private dinner parties. He did a lot of seasonal decorating. Towards the end of his life, people would hire him to do all their Christmas decor, but he would go in at like October and he would, you know, decorate their front doors in their homes from October through Mardi Gras in Louisiana. So that was like four or five months of solid going every few months to change out the lights, change out all the decor.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  I mean, a life in creativity, whether it's makeup or Halloween decorations or cooking, is a life of passion.

• 7:14Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  When it wasn't holiday time or Mardi Gras, he was cooking and like would send off, the parents would call and say, hey, Bobby's going off to, you know, college and he'd make all these, you know, casseroles to, to come pick up, to shoot.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 7:26Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So he was always busy doing stuff.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  And he's not, no longer with us?

• 7:29Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  No, no. He, um, he died of HIV and hepatitis in 2015.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:35Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And that was kind of my big lightning bolt moment to give myself the okay to pivot because life's too short.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  And I had a stepbrother that died of HIV. I'm not even sure if I put it in the book or not.

• 7:46Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I don't remember reading it. It probably would have traumatized me.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. He was my stepbrother and he came to New York to be a hairdresser, probably around the same time. And, you know, eventually he, you know, contracted this and died. Um, so that was a, that was a sad time.

• 8:03Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah. It was, it was, it's just tough. When I think about the no makeup makeup look and like understanding how, what the, what everyone expected as from a makeup artist at the time, because that's what my brother was doing. How hard was that for you to just stick to your guns? And I know you, you had to do what the people who hired you said to do, but the whole time you were like, these people are beautiful. They don't need all this.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  It wasn't hard because it was a natural pivot. So I tried to, to, you know, To be like Kevin O'Kwan, he, you know, he came after me. But there were other makeup artists that I tried to be like. And I either didn't have the talent, like I could not paint a face to change someone's face. They looked awful. So either I didn't have any talent or I, or I just didn't think it looked good. So I started doing these little things that now people think were brilliant. Like choose a foundation or make a foundation, mix it and blend it so it looked like your skin. So it didn't look like a mask and find colors of blushes that were the color of your cheeks. To me, it was common sense and simple. I, I think it was a way that I could hack the system.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  I don't need to put a blush on and try to blend it to look good. I could actually find a blush that you put on and it's a better color, so it blends itself. So I kind of hacked my way into a career and somehow started a revolution in a new look.

• 9:25Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I love how you, you really lay out the origin story of the original company, Bobby Brown Cosmetics. And that you were working as a makeup artist, stumbled across the lipstick. You know, you love this formulation, you had them in ziplocks, you were handing them out. And then turned that into a company, which eventually grew. And you got bought out by, or you sold to Lotters. Walk me through.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Right. So I was a makeup artist, you know, and had a really great life getting hired by all the magazines, fashion shows. And met my husband, got pregnant and said, I don't want to do the traveling anymore. So I still took jobs around New York and I did this one job where it took me to a pharmacy in New York. And I met the chemist behind the counter and I talked to everybody. And I started asking about these lipsticks. He said, oh, I made them. I said, wow, they're really nice. I said, but I've always wanted to make a lipstick that didn't smell, wasn't greasy, wasn't dry. And look like the color I wish my lips were. He said, I could make it for you. So we started working together and he made it and I said, oh my God, people would love this. I could probably sell this.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  And then I realized not everyone likes the same brown color I like. And everyone has different color lips. So I thought and ideated what these 10 lipsticks should be. He made them for me and I just started selling them out of my house. There was no, there was no thought of being a brand. There was no, but I was selling a bunch. Eventually a friend wrote about them in Glamour Magazine. We got a ton of orders. And the company kind of started. We then launched at Bergdorf Goodman because I met someone at a party and she told me she was a cosmetics buyer. I guess I pitched her right on the spot. And I mean, I told her about it. I didn't realize at the time it was called pitching. And we entered

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Bergdorf Goodman with 10 lipsticks, not with the original chemist. We had to kind of redo everything we did to get it the right way. It became successful. And after four and a half years, we sold the company to Estee Lauder with a 25 year non-compete.

• 11:33Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  As I talked about in the, in the opening, the first line of the book is, I won't want to work when I'm 60. And I laughed out loud because I remember thinking, 30 year old Mary Claire, 35 year old Mary Claire, 60 was

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Old. Old. Oh, I couldn't imagine.

• 11:54Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Like invisible. Like I didn't, I didn't have a model

• 11:56Speaker 01

  No.

• 11:57Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Other than domestic labor

• 11:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 11:58Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Of a woman working on purpose at 60.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:03Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And so I totally get what you, I would have said the exact same thing, like, sign the contract, honey.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 12:09Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  This is our payday. But you, you stayed on as creative director? Like they, you didn't just buy and walk out?

• 12:14Speaker 01

  No, I did not. I actually went to work as if

• 12:17Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Or sell and walk out.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Right. I, I actually went to work as if it was still my company. But now I had these teams and this money and these budgets and

• 12:25Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  That seemed so fun.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  It was really, really fun for most of the time. And I had, you know, complete autonomy. I had partners I loved. I had, you know, Leonard Lauder, who was an amazing mentor to me. I had teams of people. And then, like anything in life, things change. Like, I don't think people realize, nothing stays the same. And so maybe it was amazing for 15 years, maybe 18 years, but the last four or five years were tough. And the last year was Unbearable, and I stayed still because I thought I could fix it.

• 13:01Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You just have that grit.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  I just thought I could fix it. And honestly, it was my Aunt Alice. She was, you know, now she's 94, so she must have been 87. And she said, honey, it's time. She said, all you do when I talk to you is complain about everything about work, but you say, don't worry, I'll fix it, and nothing changes.

• 13:20Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And then when you exited the company, they kept your name?

• 13:24Speaker 01

  Well, no, no, they, when you sell a company with your name and they buy it, they own it forever.

• 13:29Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Okay.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  And that was fine. I had no problem with that.

• 13:31Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You knew what you, you knew it when you signed the contract?

• 13:33Speaker 01

  I knew when I signed.

• 13:34Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Twenty-five, twenty-four years.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  Sure, they could have my name. What do I need it for? What did I know?

• 13:39Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  But it was upsetting. You talk about it in the book. It was, it was a really, you took two whole days off.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  I did. I took two whole days off. And, um, you know, it was, it was a tough time. And I write about it in the book a lot because there was a lot of details. And I want people to understand that it's normal to feel bad when things like this happen. And it's what you do with the information that matters. And for me, it was something I needed to go through. I needed to go through the emotions of anger and sadness and excitement. And it just, it was all over the place. And I, you know, think my, my husband, my friends started reaching out, you know, even people I weren't, I wasn't that close with would reach out and just, you know, help me a bit.

• 14:23Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Check on you, yeah.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, check on me. And it took a while, but anyone that knows me, I just can't sit still.

• 14:29Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  So I started going out for lunches and I just started doing things and ideating and trying a lot of projects.

• 14:37Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So you did a master class?

• 14:38Speaker 01

  I did a master class. It was really fun. It was the first.

• 14:41Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You were one of the first?

• 14:42Speaker 01

  I was one, I was the first, you know, makeup artist.

• 14:45Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Okay. I remember seeing that advertised, you know, me who knows nothing about anything in the, in the cosmetic world. I thought, oh, that's really cool. And the master classes were new. It's not like everybody had done them back then.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  Right. But I mean, the masters up to that point where Yanni Leibowitz teaching photography and, you know, Roger Federer, you know, teaching tennis. So it was a very big honor. And I didn't have, you know, a Company or products, but they still thought of me as the one to be the master.

• 15:11Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  An icon.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  It was, it was really, really great. And then I got invited to India to be the keynote speaker of the first ever Indian makeup show. You think of Indian makeup as this Bollywood over the top, but they hired me. So I got to do that and I just realized how much I missed being in the makeup world.

• 15:31Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So you've said though, and correct me if I'm wrong, you didn't have an intention when you left. You're like, that's it. No more beauty brands. I'm done. How long did it take before you went to any and you're like, maybe?

• 15:44Speaker 01

  Well, you know, what happened was when I left, you know, and again, you could read it in the book and make your own decision if I quit or I got fired. But I didn't have an agenda. I didn't have a plan. I didn't know what I was gonna do. And honestly, I didn't know if anyone would care about me ever again. I thought, oh, no one's, I'm not gonna be on those interviews.

• 16:05Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So much of your identity was tied up.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Exactly. And my husband even said, you know, you've never really separated yourself from this company, from this, you know, it was my first baby.

• 16:14Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  It was before I had my first kid.

• 16:16Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  So I didn't know what I was gonna do.

• 16:21Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

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• 17:32Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I love this part of the story because you're driving with your husband. You're gonna do another makeup brand and you figure out the name.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  Right. Well, the, all I cared about was launching this new company the day my non-compete was up. So when I left the corporation-

• 17:49Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Why is that? Why was that so important?

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Because when I left the company, I had four and a half years left on this non-compete. I don't do great when people say you can't do something. So I couldn't do anything in beauty and four and a half years seemed like forever. And you know what? I would have my freedom for the first time. You know, I could literally tear up the piece of paper. I'd be done and I wanted to launch it. The issues were, it was a week before the presidential election in the middle of the pandemic. And everyone said, "Don't do it." Every PR firm, people we talked to said, "You're crazy. Why don't you wait till January?" I don't know. You remember what happened in January? Like January 6th? So there never would have been a good time and I needed to do it.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  And, you know, I had the products because I had been working on them secretly. And, but I didn't have a name. I didn't have a name that, that was available that we liked or everyone agreed on. And I was driving with my husband to our home in the Hamptons. Of course, as I always do, complaining, "How and how and when and how?" And my husband said, "You need to get this name by Monday or you're not going to be able to launch in time." And my head was down because my husband likes me to check Waze and Google Maps. God forbid, we're late five minutes to somewhere and we had nowhere to go. But my head was down and I see Jones Road. And I don't know why, I just blurted out, "Jones Road Beauty."

• 19:17Speaker 01

  And my husband said, "I like it." And it was available. So that became the name.

• 19:21Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  When I think about how I used to shop for makeup, I would go to, you know, based on my budget at the time, which was zero. I would go to the grocery store. I would go to the drugstore, which was Eckers or what is now CVS or Walgreens, and wander through and then look at the makeup and say, "Oh, this looks nice or that looks nice." My children are 21 and 25 and they almost 100% buy everything off of social media. They see a makeup artist using it. They see some product. They get influenced and then they buy. And you were on social media-

• 20:00Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Talking about your product. I remember, that's how I found you. That's how I found Jones Road. It was served to me during the pandemic and I thought, wow, that's Bobby Brown. What's this Jones Road stuff? And you were showing this like the Miracle Bomb.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:16Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And putting it on. And so I bought some for my sister for her birthday. And I'm like, I'll get it. I'll get some. I bought a tub.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:23Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Two and had so much fun playing with it. And the first thing I thought was, she made this for me. This is for women with drier skin. I never had, I had oily skin before.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:36Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And then menopause sucked all the oil out of my body along with, you know, water and everything else. Did you though? I mean, were you focusing on a certain age?

• 20:43Speaker 01

  No, you know what? And this is the true story. I don't see age. Like, I don't think, oh, this is for this group. And I know we have a demographic that, that is our higher, you know, people that buy the makeup. But I don't see age. I just saw this amazing product that would look good on skin. That of course, it's a skincare and makeup in one. So if you remember during the pandemic, we didn't do anything, right? We didn't color our hair. We didn't do anything. And then slowly we started to open up our laptops and our cameras and do zooms. But we looked awful. So I, this product instantly was a miracle because I just looked so much better and so did everyone else that tried it.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  The young girls in my office, you know, my friends. And I was like, I'm on to something. I said, this could be an entire brand. Because it's, it's number one, it was important to me that it's a clean brand. I wanted to create products that didn't have any chemicals. I'm a certified health coach. I went back to school and got my degree from IIN. And so I've always been someone that, you know, believes how you take care of yourself impacts how you look. But then of course, you know, makeup can also impact how you feel. So I find it like one big circle. And Miracle Bomb just was the perfect product because you could use it instead of a moisturizer. You could use it over a blush. You could, if your skin's oily, you could put it over a powder.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  You could just do it by itself. And so it became a pretty much overnight success.

• 22:14Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  For my like go to zoom look, though the zoom filter is nice. I have that long mascara wand with this, it hides that if you haven't seen it, it's my TikTok purchase. I throw my hair in a ponytail and I slick back all the flyaways. I put on my miracle bomb, I do my eyebrows, I put on lip gloss and I'm good, my glasses and I'm good to go.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Because we wear glasses, we get away with a lot. I think it's harder for women that don't.

• 22:37Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I don't.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  And honestly, it, it, some days when all else fails and no matter what, you don't look good and you put your makeup on and something's not working. You're probably dry and dehydrated from inside, but all I do is take the miracle bomb and I, it fixes everything.

• 22:51Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah, it's awesome. So when you were doing all this, I've had this feeling, no one really tells you no, you just do whatever.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  Well, they tell me no, I just don't always listen.

• 23:01Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Did anyone say, why are you doing this?

• 23:03Speaker 01

  Oh, a friend of mine, why am I doing this?

• 23:05Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You know, either age or do you really financially have to do this or why are you doing this?

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Right. I mean, I had friends of mine when I said I was writing a memoir, why are you doing that? One of my best friends said, why do you have to do this? I don't have to do it. I want to do it. I mean, I am so lucky because I don't have to work. I work because I love what I do. And I'm really curious and I'm always, I always want to do something better. I always want to, you know, I'm very competitive with myself. You know, and I guess I'm competitive just by nature. So, and I don't let go of something that I want until I get it.

• 23:41Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Until you get it. Do you like the scrappy stage?

• 23:44Speaker 01

  I am the most. I am the most scrappy person. I mean, Jones Road now is a big brand. We still run it very scrappily. And I love it. It makes total sense. I kind of grew up hacking my life. I knew nothing. I left, you know, I. I was not a great student. I didn't have a lot of book learnings, book smarts. But I realized I had other things. Maybe I had the Papa Sam education. And so the, so as I'm doing more things, I'm learning more and I'm like, oh, I could do this. And then I kind of just became, watch me, you know, not even to other people. Maybe it's to my high school teacher, my middle school teacher, but it's to myself. Okay, watch me.

• 24:27Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I love in the book when you talk about just start. So many women in my clinic, you know, at this age, reaching out on social media this age. And so I'm about 10 years behind you or at this.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  That was a nice way of saying you're 10 years younger. Okay, I'm 10 years behind you.

• 24:43Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I'm 57. So, you know, you're aging parents, dealing with that. And then, you know, kids are at different launchpads, you know, moving on. And a lot of people are getting in and out of marriages, getting in and out of jobs. Or, you know, menopause, like for a lot of women, at least in my world, because everyone's in menopause. A lightning bolt comes down and they're making decisions on the next 30 years really fast. And so I see a lot of them stuck in analysis paralysis. And that does not ever seem to be your issue.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  I don't like to be stuck. So when I wake up in the morning and I feel stuck. And it happens, you know, and again, I think it's probably I'm dehydrated. Or maybe, you know, I had the sushi and, you know, an extra glass of sake, whatever it is. I wake in the morning and I feel stuck. I drink water immediately. And then I put on either music or I have a couple of guys I follow on Instagram and I dance. I do hip hop and I don't care if it's for 10 minutes.

• 25:38Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I love it.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  It literally unsticks me.

• 25:41Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I love it.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  So exercise, you know, for me is kind of everything.

• 25:45Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I'm very much the same. I built a gym in my house so that, and I work from there. So I have a treadmill and I'll throw the laptop up there and walk. And so I take most of my Zoom calls up there. People think I'm nuts. I don't care. I put on the weight vest. I get up there, but when I'm stuck, I literally crank up. It's disco for me because of my brother.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  It's the music, yeah.

• 26:06Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And I dance around until I work out.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, makes me want to do more. So tell me about the weighted vest.

• 26:11Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So, origin story for me was, um, listening to Vonda Wright and some of the people in osteoporosis world.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 26:18Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  About, we have an epidemic of, of low bone density in this country, and for multiple reasons. And what can we do about it? So I'm, so I'm a scientist, so I go to the literature, I start digging. I'm like, what can we do? We know hormone therapy helps, and not everybody can take it, and you know. And so, what do we know works? I had three, four, five, six, now seven articles on doing weighted vest training with elderly patients who had osteoporosis, and they were seeing bone benefits from this mechanical load. And I'm like, and I knew like, the bros were wearing them for tactical training, but I, that's, I don't like listening to the wellness guys that much. I'm like, what are the women doing? Like, what helps me?

• 26:57Speaker 01

  Right, of course.

• 26:58Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Not a 25-year-old male athlete. And I was like, there's pretty good data, it's not gonna hurt me.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:03Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I'm already walking, I'm just gonna throw this on when I'm walking or doing housework.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  I mean, it could hurt you if it's too heavy for your body.

• 27:08Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Exactly, exactly. So, I go to Amazon, and I pick out what looks like a decent weighted vest. And I started like, six pounds. Then I'm digging, like, how heavy do you have to be to see benefit for bones?

• 27:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:19Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And the benefits were about 10% of, um, your ideal body weight. So for me, that's like 12 pounds.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 27:26Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So, I'm like, alright, so I get a 12, and I immediately decide, I'm gonna go walk on the seawall, which in Galveston, we have this big walk along the water, uh, for like, seven miles. I almost died that day. That was way too much. I realized, you have to build up to it. You have to start slow.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:42Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  But, I love it, and then I keep talking about it, and I'm making videos with my weighted vest.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think there's a picture in the book where I'm at a fashion show, it was Ford Model of the Year. I was a young makeup artist, I must have been 24-years-old. I'm wearing Richard Simmons shorts.

• 27:58Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I see it, and your hair is in the...

• 28:00Speaker 01

  Right, but what you couldn't see is I was wearing leg weights. So I used to bring my leg weights to work, like, years ago.

• 28:07Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, this was like, in, you know, the, the disco age.

• 28:10Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  The little ankle weights.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  Little ankle weights, yeah. I used to always travel with them.

• 28:13Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  That's amazing. I love that. I used to wear them in the OR, under my scrubs. And then like, in the long case, you, they made so much fun of me. I was doing like, squeezes and stuff behind the OR table on these briefcase. You do not seem to be afraid of failure.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  I don't believe in failure.

• 28:30Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  They like to me, what is failure? I mean, yeah, some things don't work out, right? I got fired. Some marriages don't work out. Some relationships don't work out. Some businesses don't work out. That just means it's a, it's a big message to do something else.

• 28:48Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  And you learn, especially if you learn from it.

• 28:50Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  My daughter's out there, I really hope she's listening right now.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  But you learn from it. And so it's funny because people say, oh, you're fearless. And that's not true. I'm very, you know, I'm a very kind of anxious, fearful person when it's my kids. I worry about them when they're flying, when they're driving. I'm not a daredevil, but I'm not afraid to pick up the phone and call someone, ask something, do something, start something new. And I love when I've never done it before and don't know anything about it. That's my, that's my sweet spot.

• 29:21Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So I want to talk about our moms. I'll start with my grandmother. So my mom is one of seven children. My mother was the oldest. And my grandmother suffered from mental illness. They kind of glossed it over in her lore, but you know, my mom said enough throughout the years to where she was hospitalized on a few occasions, my grandmother. She had shock treatments.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:44Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  My mom did admit that. And my mother was left at home to take care of her siblings. My grandfather was not.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Wow, how old was your mom?

• 29:52Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  A hands-on dad. She was probably 15.

• 29:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:54Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So old enough.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, but yeah, but still.

• 29:57Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  To manage six other kids.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 29:59Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You know? I guess some of my aunts kind of jumped in, but it's kind of a time that it's not been talked about a lot in our family. And it's a lot of reflection on my part. My mother also has suffered from mental illness. She was medicated. I remember seeing the bottles of Butasol. In her bathroom, and that was her nerve pills, her medicine. And I looked it up when I was researching for the new perimenopause and thinking about when was mom in perimenopause and when were those dates most likely. And my mom has dementia now and really can't give me any historical context. So I looked it up and I realized it's a sedative. So my mom was sedated. She had eight children.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 30:40Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You know, lost one when I was nine. You know, she had lost one child, next one's out of the closet, next one's in rehab. You know, she was going through a lot at the time. I was a little bit traumatic. And then had three little kids too, you know, all the same. And so she self-medicated with alcohol. So I grew up in a very tumultuous household. There was very little stability. Little kid, I think I was fine, but like you said, you know, like things changed. Life got in the way and you know, it's taken me 50 years of perspective to understand my mother and really what she went through. And I've turned out okay.

• 31:19Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  But you know, reading about your mom in those first couple of chapters and you know, I created this life for my children with as much stability as possible. I married the most solid man in America. I chose a career at the time that was a guaranteed income, even though I was away from the house a lot, you know, and I was always worried about them and them not growing up with all of the upheaval that I had. How was that for you?

• 31:47Speaker 01

  Well, very similar. You know, my mother really wasn't diagnosed until I was in seventh grade. So for most of my upbringing, you know, it was, it was normal. It was our normal. I didn't really know, notice anything different. And I didn't know any different about her. And so when she had her quote unquote first nervous breakdown, you know, where my sister found her in the bathroom trying to cut her wrists, that was the first time we realized there's a big problem and she was hospitalized. And you know, I remember that one flew out of the cuckoo's nest was the movie of the year. And so that was the first time I ever heard that people had, we didn't say mental illness, we said nervous breakdowns. And you know, we'd visit my mom in this hospital.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  She was in there for, you know, probably months. And my father was taking care of the kids while working. There was only three of us, not eight of us. And he hired a woman to come in and, you know, cook, cook and do the laundry and do whatever we needed. But it was, you know, it was an intense time. But honestly, I think about it and where, where my brain goes, you know, when I laugh a little bit that my mother made some really good ashtrays, you know, because that's what she did when she was in the hospital. And my father and I got to spend all this time together, bonding and talking. And, you know, he told me how important I was to the stability of, you know, the brothers and sisters. And I needed to, you know, to be the quote unquote mom. And I felt, you know, I felt

• 33:16Speaker 01

  that was a really big deal for me. I just somehow didn't look at it as bad. And I was never worried, oh no, what if I get it? Or what if my kids get? Like, I never thought about stuff like that.

• 33:28Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I didn't worry about that for me either. I somehow felt like I was stronger. And I've definitely had therapy.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  Right, yeah.

• 33:35Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  But I haven't had nearly the stuff that my mother's gone through. What I do worry about now is dementia.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:41Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And, but that's biological.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:44Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You know, and there's a lot of things I can do.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  There is a lot, which I do believe, yeah.

• 33:49Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  To decrease that risk.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Well, my mother also, before she passed, had dementia, but she was on medication for, you know, most of her adult life. And, you know, we know that that is something that, you know.

• 34:01Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  A risk.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Aunt Alice, who's 94, has never taken-

• 34:04Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah, and your aunt's-

• 34:04Speaker 01

  She's never taken a medication in her life. No thyroid, no hormone.

• 34:09Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Nothing.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  Nothing, nothing. Everything's fine.

• 34:11Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And is she your mom's sister?

• 34:12Speaker 01

  She's my mom's sister.

• 34:13Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Okay.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:14Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And then when your mom was hospitalized, did she step in to help?

• 34:17Speaker 01

  She was always there, yeah. She, we lived near each other. And yeah, she was always there.

• 34:21Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And you, you write about my mother was also hyper glam.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:24Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  It was the 60s and 70s and even the early 80s. And I can remember her sitting at that makeup table. I kept it for a long time.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 34:33Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  It even had, it was wood and it had a cigarette burn.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  Uh-huh.

• 34:36Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And I had it refinished, but I wouldn't let them cover that part.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 34:40Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You know, because-

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was always a cigarette hanging off the bathroom.

• 34:43Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You said that.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  And, and they were always like, the marble always got stained.

• 34:47Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I just, you wrote about that. And I was like, oh my God, that was my mom. And I would watch and I couldn't wait to go play. And she had those little plastic, you know, and all the organizers with all the different makeup.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:59Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Coming out. I just loved sitting there.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  It was, it was definitely a different time.

• 35:08Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  There's another passage that really resonated with me and I'm going to read it. You were talking about, I think you were flying overseas and doing all these press tours for the brand and to quote, "There's a particular mixture of exhaustion and adrenaline in these moments that I've grown to know well. It's bone chillingly painful to be tired, but I know I have to perform or I won't have a career. Not only does the makeup have to look right on the model, but I also have to look good. While I have people to support me, ultimately I am the one who has to perform. There's so much at stake, such responsibility to the company and myself. I put my exhaustion aside and performed. Of course, I over caffeinated

• 35:51Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  to keep myself going. Then I get into bed at night wired from the coffee and the stress and wondered why I couldn't sleep. It was hard, but I did this because it was more than my job. It was a calling." I really felt that in my bones. That was a choice I made becoming a physician. That was built into the system, right? You knew you were going to work long hours. You knew you were going to be, stay up past your bedtime and be in these like crazy emergent situations. And I left traditional hospital practice in 2021 to open my menopause clinic. No more surgery, no more hospital. So I really felt like I was walking away from that part of my life. I didn't realize that being a founder of a company-

• 36:32Speaker 01

  It's a whole nother set of rules.

• 36:33Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Bring all of that back and- I've been feeling a little bit alone in this journey sometimes of like everything's on my shoulders as a founder. And if I don't perform, if I don't step up to the plate, if I don't, you know, bring it every time and get on those planes and stay in hotels and the company is going to suffer and all these people who are counting on me. And I'm just so glad you wrote that because I felt like she gets it.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Right. But however, when I was working for a corporation, there were their rules. So I was not in control and in charge.

• 37:06Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  When you are a founder and it's your company, you have the ability- To say, okay, let's pause.

• 37:14Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Just stop. Let's look at this. What's working for the company and what's working for me? And that's the thing about starting this next phase of my life, because I started Jones Road at 62 years old. You know, we just, you know, celebrated five years. I'm 68 years old now, you know, I don't feel it, but I know that I have the ability to cancel anything I need to cancel, to recalibrate what's going on. And, you know, like, I have no one to blame except myself. Like, I am on this book tour and it is, my friends can I? Exhausting. Exhausting. It's grueling. And no one around me believes what I am able to do. And it's okay to be tired.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  And you know what? The good news when it's tired, like, I canceled my workout this morning because I just couldn't get up. I canceled my blowout. So what? It was two days ago blowout. It's still fine. And I realized things don't matter.

• 38:09Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  And that has made it easier for me to do what I'm doing. I'm not doing any less, but I'm taking away the pressure.

• 38:18Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  My team is great in like, saying, hey, are you okay? Is this too much?

• 38:23Speaker 01

  You always say, yes, I'm fine.

• 38:24Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I do?

• 38:24Speaker 01

  Right. Yes, I do too.

• 38:26Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Until I kind of break.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:28Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And then they're like, ah, you know?

• 38:29Speaker 01

  And it's okay to break and it's important to have your posse around you that is there when you do break. Okay, don't worry. We got you. Okay, we could do this. All right, you can't cancel that thing, but you could phone this one in, or we could reschedule this.

• 38:44Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  You know, because you can't do everything. We think we can. And also, when we accept jobs and calendars, when we feel healthy and great, no problem, piece of cake. But then when we start feeling exhausted and run down, it's like, what did I do?

• 39:00Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  And you know what? You're allowed to kind of say, okay, I need to take a break. So what if you cancel? So what?

• 39:06Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Trust your gut theme throughout the book. I don't think I was taught to trust my gut.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Well, I don't think anyone teaches you to trust your gut. Look, you're someone that is, I'm sure you got all good grades your whole life.

• 39:19Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I did.

• 39:19Speaker 01

  Right? I didn't. And I learned that what's gonna serve me are things that aren't written in a book, are not taught in a business school. They're just, they're innate for me. Like, I get it. Like, I know how to do this. But it's kind of trusting your gut, which, you know, I'm not a thinker as much as I'm a

• 39:38Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Doer.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Doer. But, you know, the whole trust in your gut thing, this gut thing, because I always have digestive issues. So I'm like, maybe it's my gut that's giving me my digestive issues.

• 39:49Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And then the power of no.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  And the power of no.

• 39:51Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  That is another theme in the book. I'm like, ugh.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know.

• 39:55Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  My person.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Right. Well, and by the way, you could text me anytime. Like, I have these women that understand what we're going through. Not everyone understands this. And, you know, when I'm in these situations and I'm so overloaded, the first thing I do when I have a second, I'm not, I don't get a massage, which I should be doing. I'm not sitting in a bath. I call my friends. And I have these friends that I, that are everything to me. They're not on Instagram. They have no idea what I'm doing. Whatever they read or see on how they get the media. And so, but I need to at least have a 15-minute talk. How are you doing? How's your dog? How's your kids? I, like, that keeps me grounded. I need to check in with my people.

• 40:39Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I'm glad to hear you say that. I've transitioned, you know, recently. I kind of was in the same job and raised the kids together. You know, I have friends from college, friends from high school, friends from medical school, friends from my training program, and then the mom friends.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:53Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And that's kind of my core group. And we all kind of did this path together of raising kids. And I was at the hospital and they would pick up my kids. And my husband was traveling. And then now I've transitioned to this and I have to really make an effort.

• 41:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:06Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  To reach out to them.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  Right, or else you will not have them.

• 41:09Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Right. And, and sometimes it's just a phone call. Sometimes it's a text. And I have even one particular friend that I know she feels Bad when I'm not in touch and every once in a while I text her when I'm leaving some TV show before I'm going somewhere else. I just want to let you know I'm overloaded, but I'm thinking of you. I'll call you on Friday when I'm back.

• 41:27Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  That is great.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  So those little things have made a difference.

• 41:31Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  In the book, you know, towards the end, I got a little teary. It was very sweet. You talk about how you define success now. And I defined myself by grades.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:44Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You know, which got me to medical school. I defined myself by number of patients I was seeing. Did I was, was I making the most money in the practice? All these external things. Were my kids making good grades? These poor girls.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:57Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You know, one is a creative and I'm still trying to figure her out.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  I'm sure I could figure her out in five minutes.

• 42:04Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  She's out there.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:05Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  My other one's in medical school. So she kind of, you know, has found that path. But I loved how you said you're, the way you define success has shifted. Your family.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  My family.

• 42:16Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  My kids. And you speak of your daughter in laws, your, your, your, the women in your son's lives.

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:23Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So kindly.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  But it's.

• 42:25Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So beautifully.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  I love them. I, you know, and they're not, and but trust me, nothing's easy. They both married, three sons, two wives, one girlfriend. The two married boys married really strong women, you know, really strong women. And it's interesting for me to watch the dynamics. And it's really, I'm proud of both of the boys, you know, how they're maneuvering, you know, two very different relationships. I mean, I'm now a grandmother. I have two grandkids. And it's interesting because the, the parents of the grandchildren, what is my son Cody, who's our second son, he's a CEO of Jones Road. His wife Pyle is the head of brand.

• 43:07Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Uh huh.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  And in the beginning, it was a little difficult. And we've all really grown and learned and communicated how to work together better. And that's, to me, the secret is communication on everything.

• 43:20Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  It just was so beautiful to see.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 43:22Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You know, and I was like, God. I wish someone would write that about me.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 43:29Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So sweetly. I love my mother-in-law, but it was one of those. She likes to point out how different.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 43:36Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  She raised her kids versus how I raised mine, but my kids.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  You can't say that now. See, I know that as a mother-in-law, I just ran into trouble because I was worried for my granddaughter running out the back door. And my daughter-in-law just looked at me like, do you not think we are doing exactly what we need to be doing? You know, don't judge me. I'm like, just put a lock on the door higher so Lily doesn't open the door. But then I realized, Bobby, be quiet. You can't say it.

• 44:00Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I find myself doing that with my girls now. Like, took my 25-year-old adult child out to brunch with her boyfriend. And was like, you're gonna pack that up, right? And take it home? Because she hadn't finished her meal. And then I was like, shut up.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:13Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You know, she's grown.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  It's no, it's hard. It's hard. I mean, you know, my oldest son is 35. You know, I still, I have Find My Friend on my app, so I know where they all are. And I, you know, and I checked. They gave that to me for Mother's Day one year. And my youngest son, who lived in Telluride for high school, I used to get in bed at night, you know, it was two hours different there. And I would look, oh, everyone's home. Oh, Duke's home. It says Telluride. And then the next, and then he finally told me when he went to college, Mom, I used to leave my phone at home. You know, so you thought I was home. I was not there.

• 44:45Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You know, you've watched how your kids are doing things, how you did things. And this generational, you know, you're working with a younger team, I'm assuming now. How do you see this generational change? You're excited about how the way the kids are thinking and how they're doing things?

• 45:00Speaker 01

  Oh, I love it. I surround myself with a lot of young people that.

• 45:04Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Not that we're old.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  No, no, no. But I mean, young people that, you know, certain names, you know, they just don't know. And you talk about, you know, popular culture and. You know, I had Diane von Furstenberg come in to speak about her book. She actually called in from a yacht in Italy to speak to the team. Half of the kids didn't, never heard of her. And I'm, and so I made them watch the movie and Google her. Have you ever seen her movie?

• 45:30Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  No.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  Oh, you gotta see it. It'll make you feel so incredible to be a woman.

• 45:34Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I know who she is.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, she was known for the wrap dress.

• 45:37Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah, the wrap dress.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  But she was an original powerhouse woman that just said, why do I have to live my life differently than the men?

• 45:45Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Wow.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  She just had that in her head. So it was a really great documentary. But, um, you know, I, I love surrounding myself with people that are a lot younger. I love teaching, but I also love learning from them.

• 45:56Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  And I also love being with people that are really old. My love of Leonard Lauter is in the book, just like my love of my husband. So,

• 46:03Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  and love of my dad and Papa Sam.

• 46:11Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Now for a midi pause sponsored by midi health. Let's talk about omega threes. One of those nutrients that everyone assumes they're getting enough of. Spoiler alert, most of us aren't. Omega three fatty acids are essential and critical and they're structural components of nearly every cell in your body. Not only do they keep your heart strong and your blood vessels flexible, they support brain health, reduce unwanted inflammation throughout your body, and help your immune system function optimally. Now, if you're consistent with eating fatty fish like salmon, mackerel, or sardines multiple times a week, you're likely getting what you need. But let's be honest, most of us aren't doing that. That is why omega three supplementation can make sense.

• 46:54Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  It's one of the most well researched, evidence-based interventions we have. When I talk about supporting your health through perimenopause, menopause and beyond, it's about equipping your body with what it needs to function the way it's meant to. Omega threes are one of those functional pieces, working quietly but powerfully to support every system in your body. If you're thinking about where to invest in your long-term health, omega threes are an excellent place to start. Because real health isn't just about living longer. It's about living stronger, sharper, and more vibrant at every age.

• 47:37Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So what advice would you give to a woman, you know, in midlife? That's most of my listeners who are thinking about launching or doing something different?

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, ask yourself what it is. And is it different or better than what's on the market? Whatever it is. And again, I don't care if you launch a business that, you know, chops vegetables and puts them in Ziploc bags and sells them. By the way, if you do call me, because I would love, you know, to hire someone to do that simple stuff in my life. But also, you know, just do it. Just start doing it, doing it little, seeing if it works, seeing if people like what you're doing, and seeing if you like what you're doing. You know, everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. Everyone wants to be a founder. Everyone wants their own business. Well, A, it's not for everybody.

• 48:24Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  You know, it's not for everybody.

• 48:26Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  It's not easy. There's a lot of spaghetti thrown at a lot of walls at our house.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and a lot of founders need a second person to make sure that they are dream catchers.

• 48:37Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  My husband was with Chevron. So, you know, doctor, engineer, doing our things. And then as the business started growing, he has an MBA.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:47Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And he kind of was helping out, but still working for Chevron. And suddenly, he's doing more and more and taking on more and more. And I'm like, you're actually good at this stuff. Like, I need to stay in my zone of genius. I mean, I was the high, I did everything in the beginning. I didn't know what I was doing. I was on social media and building websites and doing all this stuff. But he eventually did retire earlier than originally planned and now completely runs all the...

• 49:13Speaker 01

  He didn't, he never retired. I think that word needs to go.

• 49:15Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Well, he says, you know, he's still like, like, what I'm doing is not really work. I'm like, you have a bigger budget than you've ever had in your entire career.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah. No, it's, it's one of the, it's one of my trigger words when people say, how's retirement? I'm like, first of all, no one retires. They just shift into doing something else. And even if that means you're playing golf all day or playing tennis.

• 49:35Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  That's what you're doing now. You're not retired. Retired sounds like some old person sitting in a chair.

• 49:39Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And that's the quickest way to die.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  It is. 100%.

• 49:43Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So when we, I read through Joy's span, it's, um, there's a gerontologist. So I'm like fascinated with aging now, right? And I'm like, how do women age? I just want to stay out of nursing home. I want my time of loss of independence to be like as short as possible. And she talks about using your brain and human connection. Really, if you run the cancer gauntlet, you don't have a heart attack. Like, what is really going to determine your joy span, living a joyful life, is keep thinking, keep creating, and keep connecting.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  Right. And honestly, keep moving.

• 50:14Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yes.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  My aunt, Aunt Alice, who's 94, has a, she's... Says not boyfriend, it's her best friend, but they're together and have this great relationship. He's ninety five, going in ninety six. He walks around the retirement community with ski poles or walking poles. And he just walks, he never stops. He goes out, walks the property, comes in, walks it. He just walks and he is so vibrant.

• 50:39Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  You know, he also is on some kind of a GLP and he said it keeps him young.

• 50:45Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  He said, it keeps my brain, it keeps me young and he's not done.

• 50:48Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  From a medical standpoint, I am so fascinated by that drug. You know, probably twenty five percent of our patients are on it. And it is, it can be life changing, that's a whole nother discussion. All right, back to beauty. All right. I'm still served ads that are anti aging and it drives me crazy.

• 51:04Speaker 01

  There isn't such a thing.

• 51:05Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  No.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm older now than when I first arrived here. Like, there's nothing that's going to anti age you. There's things that will age you quicker, like smoking and not wearing sunscreen and stress and bad food and, you know, all that kind of stuff. But I'm a liver. It's, you know, I'm not looking to, to use the term anti age at all. I just, I want to be more vibrant. And I do that through makeup and I do it through what I put in my body and I do it through positive attitude.

• 51:33Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So the book you talk about somewhere around fifty, probably around your menopause, I'm guessing. You went through a whole health transformation and tell me about the course you went to and you being a health coach.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  So I had my last baby at forty one. By the time I was forty eight, I was full on, you know.

• 51:51Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Me too.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, you know, I started barely getting periods and I just was detached. There was something not right. So I went on bio identical hormones. I've always been someone.

• 52:01Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  That's really rare that you found someone who would give them to you. How did that happen?

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Cause I read Suzanne Somers' book. I mean, I read the book.

• 52:09Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  That's all there was back then.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  And I actually did the research and found one of her New York doctors. And I went to him, my husband also went to him and he's the one that taught me about it. And I went on it and it was like a miracle and I was so afraid of, you know, breast cancer in the family.

• 52:27Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Of course.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  I eventually went off. And I felt awful again.

• 52:30Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  I went right back on and you know, I've not been off it since and I'm way past menopause.

• 52:37Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  But I, I just feel like it, I think it keeps me young.

• 52:41Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  It's always protecting your bones and if you, and it can continue to give you cardiac benefit if you start young enough. So my husband teases me that, you know, if I don't develop a contraindication, if I do, then we'll deal with that. That when they open my casket, there will be bones and a little plastic estrogen patch, you know, sitting on my skeleton, but you will bury me with that thing.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  It's amazing. And I finally have the right medical team. I have a functional nutritionist who's amazing. And her sister, who is an M D. That left a woman's practice and now they work together.

• 53:16Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  That's amazing.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  I used to just take the functional doctor that would read all the different tests. And I would go to my doctor that prescribes and they say, where'd you get this information? No. And so it was always a struggle. And now I have a team that I get to work with that look at all, the doctor looks at the labs.

• 53:32Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  And then the functional one looks at these other things and they discuss it together.

• 53:36Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  So I, I'm a big believer in functional medicine. I'm a big believer in regular medicine, too.

• 53:43Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Well, I think there's a meat in the middle.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  There are a hundred percent.

• 53:45Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I try to do the best of functional in our clinic and the, you know, everything I learned from my standard M D. allopathic, you know, O B G Y N, I have all of that.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:55Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And then I have all the new knowledge. I went back to school for nutrition, I, you know.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  Where did you go? You probably went to a real school.

• 54:01Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So it is a, it's called culinary medicine and there, it's the, it's the National Academy of Culinary Medicine. And so the courses I took were through Tulane and then I did my labs in San Antonio at a test kitchen. Cause we work with nutrition dietitian.

• 54:14Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 54:15Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  We actually went in and cooked in the kitchens and did some real practical, hands-on stuff with the internal medicine team.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  Well, I went to the Institute of Integrative Nutrition, which teaches people to become health coaches.

• 54:27Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  And a health coach is not a nutritionist. We don't get the science courses. But we learn about how, you know, functional nutrition really works and how you crowd out a bad diet with healthy things. And how you start realizing and helping people to change their habits.

• 54:43Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And who are you coaching?

• 54:45Speaker 01

  Anyone that, anyone that asks, no one, no, I don't get paid for it, anyone that asks.

• 54:49Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So, you know, my kids are getting served these messages too, still. I see the, the, the little girls going in to buy skincare.

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 54:58Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  You know, at the Sephora, like 12 year olds.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 55:01Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  That's crazy.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  It's crazy. I see, you know, I don't go into Sephora very much, but when I kind of go and if I have an extra minute and it's there, I go in and I see a lot of fathers on a Saturday with their young children. And it's actually really sweet with their young daughters with like a gift card left over from their birthday or Christmas. And, you know, hopefully they're buying lip gloss and eyeshadow and not retinol.

• 55:22Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 55:23Speaker 01

  Because, you know, a 15 or a 12 year old does not need retinol.

• 55:26Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  No, and they're.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  They don't even need to know what it is.

• 55:28Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  They're being marketed. I had bows in my hair. I was running around the dirt, riding bikes at 12.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  Right. That's what you're supposed to be doing.

• 55:35Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So I wasn't worried about, you know, am I glowy enough on my, on my Instagram?

• 55:39Speaker 01

  But you know what? You can't fight the new world, which is social media. You just have to be the voice of reason to your girls. You know, I've written two books for teenage girls on beauty and makeup. I'll probably do a third because it's, it's the, it's the generations that come back to me say, I started with your book that helped me appreciate my freckles or my strong nose.

• 56:01Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  What do you want, you know, younger women, so you're talking to my daughters right now, about aging? What would you tell them?

• 56:08Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, instead of wasting your time with aerobics, do weights.

• 56:11Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Oh, that, yeah.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  That is, that is a big regret I, I have that I did with the Jane Fonda, you know.

• 56:18Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Step aerobics. I taught step aerobics. Yeah.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  I was not coordinated enough for step aerobics. I was always doing my own thing. What a surprise. But I was feeling the burn with Jane Fonda. I was definitely feeling the burn. But no, you do weights and you just, you feel better, you look better. And it's not about how skinny you are, it's about how strong you are.

• 56:37Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Stronger for skinny.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  And, yeah, and I would tell them that. And I would also say, just really think about what you love and your passion and try to build your life around it. And nothing's perfect. You can have whatever life you create for yourself. It's not going to be easy and. It's not going to be perfect and that's okay.

• 56:56Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Looking back now, what would you tell that 34 year old Bobby with your couple of decades?

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Well, the 34 year old Bobby, I would say, okay, learn how to chill because you're going to be doing this in your 60s, 70s, and probably 80s, if not, you know, if not 90s. So I planned, you know, and hope to live to 100. And I really want my 90s to be great. My dad is early 90s. His brother and sister live to their middle 90s. I would like to be healthier.

• 57:26Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Me too. All right. I can't, I just love, love, love, love, love. I love easy. I love when the book, when you talk about, listen, I'm not making these for supermodels. I'm making this for the busy working mom who's putting this on in the car or on the train, real fast during her makeup. So what they, I have the little setup here. What's in here?

• 57:46Speaker 01

  So that's the five year kit. It'll probably be sold out by the time, you know, we talk about it. But, and I gave five new products. So, which we will probably, you know, that's the miracle balm.

• 57:58Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  In the little tub?

• 57:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that color is called cheeky. And it's actually the color that you're wearing on your lips. And, you know, you could put it on your cheeks. You could wear it on your lips. And, um, yeah, we had two different colorways. Really pretty. And it works when you have nothing on your face. That's what's so great. But first of all, I hope your makeup artist approves, but it looks really pretty.

• 58:20Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  She's probably.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  It just like really kind of gave you a little lift. And that is, that one I'm not going to like for you because it's too dark. So you can give it to someone with darker skin. But this one is an illuminator. It comes in two colors. We'll try to get you the pinky one because it just wakes up your skin.

• 58:38Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I love this guy.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  That's espresso. It is a darker, like, only someone like me could take a dark brown and think I could improve on it. So we still have the dark brown, but now I made espresso, which is the color of an espresso.

• 58:50Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Okay.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  And it's just, it's deeper.

• 58:52Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And I'm really excited to try this.

• 58:54Speaker 01

  That's, people are going to be thrilled. So this is an eyeshadow stick that you could line your eyes. You could smudge it in a pinch. You could use it in your part between touch ups. Which is so nice.

• 59:06Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  That is, I'm still coloring my hair.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you know what?

• 59:10Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And I might forever.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  It's okay.

• 59:12Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  My mom is still with dementia, getting her hair colored in the nursing home.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  You know, people always say to me, why won't you just let it? I'm 100% gray. Why won't you let it go gray?

• 59:21Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  My sister has done it, and I'm not there yet.

• 59:22Speaker 01

  I don't want to. And I don't think, I always said, well, maybe when I'm 60. Then I said 70. And now I'm like, you know what? I don't shoot things in my face. So if coloring my hair makes me feel, you know, younger, I'm gonna just go for it.

• 59:36Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  And then Batch 18?

• 59:38Speaker 01

  Batch 18, this is what I launched before I had a company. It's a great color. It works on everybody. This, again, you could use on your cheeks. And we made this so I can give it out for Halloween. And it was, people request this all the time, so we brought it back for the kit.

• 59:53Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  So menopause, you know, isn't just one day in our life. It is the last period till the rest of our lives. But it often feels like, you know, when I thought about it as a 30-year-old, it was my time to be invisible. I didn't even have a picture of a woman, other than an old woman, an elderly, decrepit, kind of frail woman. But that's not it. I am healthier, happier, living the best life that I've ever lived. I wouldn't go back. I lived my whole life before, but I feel like this is the sweet spot for me right now, and it's only gonna get better. What have you decided to unpause for yourself at this time of life?

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, when I think of pause, I never do pause. And I need to pause a little bit. But, you know, what did I unpause? I think I've just given myself permission to do whatever I feel like doing. Whatever it is, like, I can't wait to go home today and see my granddaughter. Like, that is, like, my priority today.

• 1:00:46Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  What's your grandma name?

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  My grandma name is Bebe.

• 1:00:48Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Bebe.

• 1:00:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, my grandma name is Bebe. I'm very proud of the name.

• 1:00:52Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  I love it. Well, thank you for being on Pause. I'm so glad to spend this time with you and educate our listeners all about Still Bobby. Excellent book. I mean, I think it should be required reading for all young women. Just a story of resilience and grit and determination, and you're just a badass.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  Oh, thanks. And you know what? If I could do it, anyone could do it.

• 1:01:17Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  So, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

• 1:01:19Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  Awesome.

• 1:01:22Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  As a reminder to our audience, you can follow Bobby on Instagram at justbobbi.com or at Jones Road Beauty. And Bobby's new book, Still Bobby, is currently available on Amazon. I'd love to hear from you about this topic or anything else that's on your mind. You can find me on Instagram at Dr. Mary Claire and get honest and accurate information on health, fitness, and navigating midlife at thepauselife.com. Also, my new book, The New Perimenopause, is available for preorder now on Amazon. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click Follow on your favorite podcast apps so you never miss an episode. While you're there, leave us a review and be sure to share the show with the women you

• 1:02:02Dr. Mary Claire Haver?

  love. We would be so grateful. You can also find full episodes on YouTube at Dr. Mary Claire. UnPaused is presented by Odyssey in conjunction with Pod People. I'm your host, Dr. Mary Claire Haver. The views and opinions expressed on UnPaused are those of the talent and guests alone and are provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. No part of this podcast or any related materials are intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.