HARSH TRUTH About Wealth, Power & Happiness: Life Lessons Everybody Learns Too Late | Tai Lopez PT 1 (Fan Fave)

In this two part episode I’m diving deep into the HARSH TRUTH about wealth, power, and happiness with the one and only Tai Lopez. It's time to challenge the biggest mistake most people make, allowing others to convince them that power is a dirty word. No, my friends, power equals success. If you're ready to become a strong and capable person worthy of respect, then you have to be ready to pursue it aggressively. Don't be afraid to dominate and discover your true power. This conversation will redefine what true power really means, beyond sex and money. We'll explore the double-edged sword of power and uncover what people often get wrong about it and delve into the nature of money, understanding that it doesn't define your self-worth. Instead, we'll focus on what you truly want to feel and how you feel about yourself. “Men have to come to grips with their will to power because the will to power that drives you can also be your demon.” -Tai Lopez Prepare to witness the power of making things happen in the world as Tai and I map out the intricate connections between power, wealth, and seduction. It's time to seek mastery, status, and power like never before. Prepare to have your mind blown and your perspective shifted. Join Tai Lopez and myself in this unforgettable episode of Impact Theory. Books Mentioned in this Episode: Titan, The Life of John D. Rockefeller by Ron Chernow Kon-Tiki by Thor Heyerdahl Don’t miss out growing wealth and power with Tai Lopez’s book, The 3 Trends: ⁠https://www.3trends.com/⁠ https://www.3trends.com/ Follow Tai Lopez: Website: ⁠https://www.tailopez.com/⁠ https://www.tailopez.com/ Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/tailopez/⁠ https://www.instagram.com/tailopez/ YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@tailopez⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@tailopez Follow Me Tom Bilyeu: Website: ⁠https://impacttheoryuniversity.com/⁠ https://impacttheoryuniversity.com/ Twitter: ⁠https://twitter.com/TomBilyeu⁠ https://twitter.com/TomBilyeu Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/⁠ https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Let's talk about the moment your side hustle becomes a real business. Now, I see way too many founders stay stuck running their business like it's a hobby, and then they wonder why nothing ever feels real. It doesn't feel real because it's not. I've helped thousands of entrepreneurs build real businesses through Impact Theory University, and the first step in the path to building a legit business is registering it. And Taylor Brands will help you do just that in a few clicks. An LLC, a limited liability company, is an official business structure. It's inexpensive to form and very simple to maintain. It's how you open a business bank account. It's how customers know they're dealing with a real company. And Taylor Brands doesn't stop at the filing.

• 0:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Their dashboard tracks what comes next based on what your business actually needs. So EIN number, registered agent, licenses and permits, bookkeeping, business banking. I tell every founder the same thing. Just make it official. Click the link in the show notes to check out Taylor Brands and get started on your business today. This is a paid advertisement. The biggest mistake you could make is to allow people to convince you that power is a dirty word. If you want to become a strong and capable person worthy of respect, you should pursue it aggressively. But before you do, you need to develop an understanding of what true power actually is. Is it the ability to get laid and get rich?

• 1:28Tom Bilyeu?

  Or is it something far more profound? Find out right now as my guest Ty Lopez and I map out the true nature of power, wealth, and seduction.

• 1:39Tom Bilyeu?

  As somebody who has seen the good and the bad of money and power up close, what is it exactly that you think people get wrong? And why does it matter so much to learn and get it right?

• 1:51Speaker 01

  Let's take them one at a time. Wealth? Yeah, I've been poor, and I've been rich, and I've been in between. Wealthy's better, probably. But more money, more problems, too. I always tell people, think about life as like a curve. And you call it the kind of efficient frontier. When I had no money, I was sleeping on a couch in a mobile home. I remember seeing $47 in my account and going, and I had very little happiness. Then I built my first funnel. And I was one of the first people to use Google AdWords. It was two months old. And I went within nine months, I was making basically eight thousand a month on autopilot. Wow.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  My happiness went really high. Then I remember really when you really start to make money, make a million bucks a week or whatever it is. I lived in Beverly Hills. The first month I was there, it was a big house, seventeen thousand square feet. So you needed a fleet of maids and I used an agency, a maid came, worked one day. Month later, get a lawsuit. She said she slipped on a banana peel, wanted money. Wealth, that's the banana peel effect of wealth in the US. All of a sudden you become a target. So what happened on that curve, my happiness went up. All of a sudden I started, you can make too much money. Then all of a sudden your happiness plateaus. Then you're like Mark Zuckerberg, who last year spent thirty two million on private security. Jesus.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  That means you have credible threats against your children, kidnapping, you're spending two and a half million a month on security. His happiness has now gone over the cliff and he's, you can actually be so wealthy, you're back to where you were when you were poor. Rockefeller, there's a book called Titan. He's the richest man in modern times, six hundred billion net worth. In the book, you can read in about the eighteen nineties, he reached the pinnacle of his success, but he was attacked by the US government. There was a news reporter, this woman that was the thorn in his flesh, always saying he was a scam and blah, blah, blah. And he lost all his hair in his fifties from stress, all of his hair, his eyebrows, eyelashes, hair.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  And he, he had a moment of clarity where he said, all of the money I have made has not compensated me for the stress I've gone through. Meaning it's too much. So that's my answer on wealth. Find the point. Which for most people is gonna be, you know, six figures of profit. Maybe seven figures. When you start going to make eight figures, the banana peel effect, your best friend's gonna try to steal your money. The tax guys come and show up and go, "Was that a real business expense?" So try to find the optimal point on the efficient frontier. Now, you asked about power. My main mentor in the last 10 years has been Dr. David Buss.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  He's maybe the most respected living evolutionary psychologist. And I have a theme. I like to always have one male mentor and one female. And Dr. Helen Fisher, who's also one of the preeminent scientists. I came to them one day and I said, "You know what? There's four Ms of motivation for everybody." And I said, "What do you think of my theory, Dr. Buss?" He said, "I think it's a decent theory." He always has his own improvements, but the first M is material things. The second M is mating. The third M is movement slash freedom. The fourth M is mastery slash status. What we get wrong about ourselves and others when it comes to power or wealth

• 5:26Speaker 01

  is not understanding that almost every wealthy person that I quiz into their unconscious mind, X-ray into the mind, they're not really driven by material things. There's a lot of people who seek money because they like the fourth M, mastery, status, or power. So when it comes to men, men are much more driven by power. I'm already seeing the results. First time I launched this quiz, 6,000 people took it the first day in about 190 countries. So I'm getting good data and I'm finding a pattern. I ask at the end, "Is your sex male or female?" I don't get into genders. Sex, okay? I notice a consistent trend. Men care about mastery, status, power. Women do occasionally, but rarely. And that makes sense.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Our ancestors, the men, you know, Nietzsche, maybe the second smartest person I've ever read. You know, Nietzsche said, "The will to power, this is the force that drives earth." Donald Trump, Joe Biden, they are there because they had the will to power. They were like, "I want power." The lobbyists, the pharmaceutical companies, we think they just want wealth, but there's men sitting there that want power more than everything. Very few men, if you give them a choice and say, "Do you really love money? Like, I'm gonna give you material things. You get all the jewelry you want." Okay, you get all the jewelry, you get all the luxury designer clothing, but you have no power status. Very few men will take that.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  But if I say to you, look, bro, no jewelry, no Rolex's, but you walk in a room and men fear you, wanna be you. Men, eighty percent of the time, take that. So, power is a very sex-specific thing. Women, um, or at least the female sex, don't seem as driven by that. But to be clear, I find about twenty percent of women are also driven by status. Now, if you hold your hand up, I've never seen your hand, can I see? Are you right or left? Okay, so, this is digit index ratio, pretty good science. Some scientists disagree with it, but there's about forty studies. You have a lot of testosterone, you're a very driven, ambitious person. This, you're very similar to me.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  This is higher, this is prenatal testosterone, androgen kind of receptive, when you're in the womb, you get like this dosage, which sets the course of your life. You are probably more driven when you see a hand like this, and you, and also you can do other testing to, to find this out. Driven a little bit like Nietzsche, the will to power, the will to be known, the will to be respected. You have a podcast, you're building a personal brand. By the way, there's nothing wrong about it. Sometimes people try to go, no, that's not me, I'm not materialistic. I'm more like Einstein, I don't believe that much in free will. You know, if you read the Walter Isaacson book on Einstein, pretty smart guy, he's like, ah, a free will doesn't exist.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Now, that's, if you're a quantum physicist, you'll probably disagree and say that free will does exist. If you love power, some of it's predestined, you can see it in the womb. And so, I think men have to come to grips with their will to power, because the will to power also can drive you, can be your demon. You know, it can be your angel, sitting here, or it can be your demon. Wealth and power are like a pit bull, and when they're on your side, they're wonderful guardians, but if they ever turn against you, they'll rip you to shreds.

• 8:51Tom Bilyeu?

  That is very succinct. So, the thing that I, I agree with all of that, and the thing that I would add is, Once I came to understand that the true nature of money is to be a facilitator, in and of itself, it doesn't do anything. I mean, if you really think about it, and this, the analogy I'm about to make made a lot more sense before crypto. But what I used to tell people is, money, cash, only has potential heat energy in and of itself. You can burn it, it will release heat. That's really all it has, except for the fact that we all say that thing is valuable and therefore, as long as we believe in it, then it will carry some further potential in it.

• 9:33Tom Bilyeu?

  But the potential that it has, I think people always think it's going to make them feel about themselves the way they feel about other people that have money. So they look at that person and they admire them, they want to be them, they're driven by envy. I've heard you say that, I think that's pretty accurate. And they think, oh, all this envy that I have for that person, if I get the money, I will feel complete, powerful, amazing, but the reality is money can't touch how you feel about yourself. Yeah. And so ultimately, I think the thing that people strive for is to feel a certain way about themselves, which is why, if you say to somebody, you can be feared Yeah. and admired, I think there's something about that, that, and there is an element of, I think, part of that particular question, the thing that turns them on is, oh, they're gonna fear me?

• 10:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah. Because people instinctively know that they will then be able to wield their power. Yeah. Because if I were going to define power, I would say it's the ability to manifest your will. And I don't mean manifest in like a woo woo sense, I mean manifest as in you close your eyes, you imagine the world you want to exist, you open your eyes, and you actually go make that world come true. And so the person who

• 10:45Tom Bilyeu?

  that, I mean, maybe Putin is even more so, just because he controls a country, but when I look at somebody like Elon Musk, and he can seemingly kick off billion dollar companies at will, I mean, it's bananas. And that is somebody who imagines going to Mars and builds the thing necessary to get him there, including the legal battles and things that he's gonna have to go through to make It all come true, the just brutality that is something that difficult, that expensive, that high risk. And so, all right, you've got wealth, which is really, it's just a facilitator. It's, it's not going to touch who you are, but everybody thinks it's going to change how they feel about themselves.

• 11:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Then you have power, which is really about the ability to make things happen in the world. Right. And on that one, I think people tangle up because everybody, not everybody, it's become so commonplace to be disgusted by somebody like me who says, I'm here seeking power. Right. I come seeking power. I am trying to get as powerful as I can. Now, if you think that means I'm trying to hold dominion over other people and extract from them so that I can myself have, I get why you would think that's gross. But if you understand power the way that I understand it, which is you, power is agnostic. I could use it to manifest a will that is horrible. Hitler enters stage right.

• 12:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Or I could try to make the world a much better place. I can bring things to the world that our wonderful Gandhi, Mother Teresa, right? They had a will to power that was extraordinarily strong. It just manifests in a way that we can all get behind versus somebody who's doing horrible things. But if people are able to tease the sort of emotion that they have around what they think money is without ever really thinking about it, or what they think power is without ever really thinking about it, from the reality of these evolutionarily granted tools. Like if they can tease that apart, then they can say, okay, I'm going to bring these things on. I'm not going to pursue wealth for the sake of having money.

• 12:51Tom Bilyeu?

  There are things in my life I need to facilitate and money is the great facilitator. Therefore, cool, I'm going to need some amount of money. And then, hey, I have a vision for a better world and I want to have impact. And so I need to get good at manifesting my will. But I don't think people understand that.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  You need to read The Denial of Death, a famous book on this subject. I would just say, I agree, but remember the pit bull analogy. Power, wealth, absolute power corrupts absolutely. And so The Denial of Death is an interesting book on the subject of when we, what happens when we seek power.

• 13:27Tom Bilyeu?

  So you recommend I read that as a warning?

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Not a warning, but a, a deep dive into the repercussions. One of my things, my mentor Joel Salatin used to say, the worst thing in life, Ty, is to grow old and realize you got good at the wrong thing. So I'm a big fan of what's the, go deep and what's the unconscious motivators? That everything that we think, we perceive, we want power and we want money is the conscious mind. But like Freud said, by the way, much of what you said was Freudian and Nietzschean, you know? But the mind is like a iceberg, 10% above water, 90% sitting below. So I would say you have probab-, the way I would see you, if I might be so bold.

• 14:11Tom Bilyeu?

  Please.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  In the unconscious mind is you have a genetic predisposition towards mastery and status. Your mind, your conscious mind, you brought this up, we justify to ourself. This is kind of the concept, you know, they kind of outdated Freudian concept of the ego, the soup, you know, the, yeah, the ego. And you kind of have this super ego, which is like collective society. But the simpler way to think about it is our genes make us want something unconsciously. And then our mind justifies it. Everybody justifies, Muammar Gaddafi, you know, Kim Jong, Kim Jong Un, he does not see himself as a bad man. He sees a, Adolf Hitler, if you, there's a very famous story about Adolf Hitler.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  He kept a picture of a guy behind him. And this was an English soldier. In World War One, there was a battle, I think it's called Yipreys is how you pronounce it in Belgium. A young Adolf Hitler, unknown to the world, foot soldier, comes out of a tent, or a little hut, no gun. He comes out with no gun. An English soldier has a rifle. And Adolf Hitler, young Adolf Hitler, says, "Don't shoot me. I'm unarmed." And the man said, "For a split second, I thought, I'm gonna kill him anyway. He's the enemy." But he said, "I didn't like the morality of killing an unarmed man. I let him go." That was Adolf Hitler. That man felt guilty on that.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  That was 1917, 16, 17? About 1939, okay? Guess what happens? That man feels guilty every day. Adolf Hitler keeps that man's picture, calls him on his birthday annually. No joke. Thanks the man, and Hitler perceived that in the conscious mind is proof that God was on his side. He had a vision for changing his people. It was a time when people were more nationalistic. All countries were nationalistic for the most part. So Adolf Hitler had this, he used his, he had a genetic predisposition. He had a horrible family upbringing. He had a dad who was abused him physically. High levels of narcissism.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  If you read, there's a new book about the family of Adolf Hitler. I just read it about two months ago. You know, his dad, if you know how to read people, his dad had NPD, narcissistic personality disorder. We now know under FMRI machines, you're missing gray matter in your brain. So you don't even know you're a narcissist. His dad's a hyper narcissist, has all the attributes of it. Adolf Hitler, we know now narcissism is like .78 heritability. It's insane. So we think, so I told you, I don't believe in free will. Adolf Hitler is born, this man, who is the product of a narcissist.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  He then goes through wars put on by big governments, which cause PTSD for people. He comes out of this already with a genetic predisposition to be a little bit wacky. On top of that, he sits through World War I, probably has literal artillery reverberations, like causes mental illness.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  But he never saw himself that way. He saw himself as a god warrior and he had proof. If he was on the show Adolf Hitler would say, what do you mean? I could have been shot. The Englishman, the hand of God came down and said, I have a special purpose for this man. So you have to, we always have to, I have to be careful that I'm not justifying my proclivities, my genetic predispositions and saying, by golly, this is the right way. Now, I'm not, I'm not saying your way is wrong. I'm just saying I try to think 360 about myself. Adolf Hitler was wrong. He was a madman and he, uh, his will to power, wasn't complete lose, lose. He lost his life.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Germany lost. My grandma's from Germany. My grandma met Adolf Hitler in 1936 out of park. Her sister, I mean, her best friend, Melina Meshman, who wrote a best, New York Times bestselling book you can read. Um, and it's dedicated to my grandma in the foreword, asking my grandma for forgiveness. Cause Melita Meshman turned my grandma's family in. And SS kicked down the door. My grandma always told me she remembers it before she came here to California. She escaped. Um, my grandma knew he was a madman in 1936. My grandma's good, read people. He came in a park, Melita Meshman, they were both about, this was in 1936. This is when Time Magazine, the mass media was stupid back then. They made, you know Adolf Hitler was the man of the year on the cover of Time Magazine.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  I think it was 1936. So my grandma's born in 18, so she's 18 years old. Melita Meshman says, Mary Ann, there's an amazing man you need to meet. He's giving a small talk in our local park. My grandma goes there. She says a car pulls up. There's 50 people, a hundred people there. There's no top on the car, you know, it's convertible Mercedes. A lot of billionaires made in the, uh, in the Nazi regime and war. And he starts yelling. My grandma's like, I hated the guy right away. I don't, my grandma didn't like people who yelled. Will to power, genes. We think we have free will. Did Adolf Hitler have free will? Einstein said no. Now, I, when I say this on social media, every Tom, Dick and Harry writes,

• 19:35Speaker 01

  "Todd, you don't know what you're talking about." I'm like, "Oh yeah, I'm supposed to believe you over Einstein." I'm like, "Believe it or not, Einstein was a fairly smart guy."

• 19:44Speaker 01

  Now, there's newer physicists that disagree. Quantum physics kind of shows that things can appear out of nowhere, which is closer to our conception of morality, that people make a choice. But there's still a lot of machines that we literally have that show before you take an action, it appeared in your mind in the unconscious 10 seconds before, or tenth of a second before. Meaning what you perceive your conscious mind to say to do. Your unconscious told you to do it. We're the bitch of our brain. So, going back to you, this is a long-winded, some people say I yap, but hey, I'm a professional yapper. You might be listening. Every once in a while, in a yapping session, there's something to take away.

• 20:26Tom Bilyeu?

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• 21:07Tom Bilyeu?

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• 21:51Tom Bilyeu?

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• 22:35Tom Bilyeu?

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• 22:49Speaker 01

  I think you are, and me, and everybody in this room, we suffer from something called FDS, Frequency Dependent Selection. Nature says, "I like to diversify." In every country in the world, women, when they give birth, about 50% male sex, 50% female sex. There's a value in sexual reproduction. That's why there's two sexes. Some species don't do it. Ferns don't do it. Lesser-evolved species, ferns, earthworms, they don't have male-female sex. But it's a diversification. In a community like in this room, I know in this room, not everybody sees the world like you. You're more of a wildepower.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  About 25% of the world, especially men, was distributed the genes to seek mastery, status, power. But nature or God is smart. If there's too many people, and I'm more like you, if there's too many people like us...

• 23:45Speaker 01

  Can you have all leaders with no followers? You must have people who follow. You can't have only architects for a beautiful house like you live in. You need somebody, people to build the house. So nature FDS, frequency dependent selection says, all right, we got enough of those guys. Let's present 25% of population is driven by mating. I just did a, did a seminar with women CEOs. It was amazing. Women sometimes score as their unconscious motivators, 95% mating. Some men do too. There was, so nature goes, I want some people who care about love and family. But I don't want them all because I need a few Genghis Khans. I need a few, I need, sometimes population gets too big.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  I need the scourge of God that comes through and modulates a population so they don't overeat. Nature's been doing that for a long time. Attila the Hun's, Stalin's, Putin's, I'm not justifying what they do. I'm just recording history. This is the known history of man. Nature says, I want about 25% of people who actually like material things. There are people who get tremendous pleasure from holding a stack of cash. It's not me and you. Do you keep a lot of cash in your wallet? Nope. I have a cousin. He is of that FDS. Nature said, I'm going to give you the genes. He likes physical things. You know who those people become?

• 25:06Speaker 01

  Those people become, sometimes are great artists because artists is holding a thing like a sculptor. They like the thing. Michelangelo was probably a thing driven person. He says, I saw in the sculpture, he said, I saw in the rock, the treasure. He could see, that's a material driven person. Me and you, I don't, I don't care. Like if, if I didn't, wasn't on camera, I, I don't know what I'd be wearing right now. I'm wearing a tank top. I'm not, when I did my here in my garage video, people didn't believe me when I said, here in my garage. But here's my new Lambo, but you know what I like more than material things? Knowledge, because I am a movement freedom person.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  So you, it'd be interesting, I haven't quizzed you, but you may be, let me ask you this. You got a choice.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  I wire you a billion dollars. Okay, you're already rich, but let's say I wire you a hundred bill. Okay. Cash, no after-tax. But you must be celibate, no love, no romance for the next 10 years.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  And, and your wife, you got a great wife, I was just talking to her. You guys gotta live apart for 10 years. You're just a solo man.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  Or you have a massive love and you got a million bucks is all you'll ever have in your bank account. Which one are you taking?

• 26:29Tom Bilyeu?

  A million bucks, very easy.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Okay. Next, so that's mating higher than material. Okay, next. You can have the love. This million bucks in your bank account at all times, not extraordinary wealth, but wealth.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  No freedom. You will have to go no further than one mile from this house. People can come to you, no freedom, and you must work on a nine to five schedule. Normal, nine to five, Monday, even if you work for yourself, Monday to Friday. Okay.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  So you get the love, no freedom. Or you get the freedom, but your wife gotta be apart, no sex for 10 years. Which one you take? I like this.

• 27:15Tom Bilyeu?

  I would really need to understand the, I mean, the, the reality is I would trade nothing for my wife. So if we had to be apart for 10 years, basically you could do anything but rob me of my health. And I'm always going to choose my wife. But that's my wife versus if I were single, I would make very different.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Month you met her.

• 27:32Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, first month I met her, I was not in love yet, so.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  But no women, no sex, 10 years.

• 27:36Tom Bilyeu?

  That would.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Are you taking the freedom?

• 27:39Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, that would be, that would be what I would advise myself unless I knew.

• 27:44Speaker 01

  But I care about the unconscious. Where are you going?

• 27:47Tom Bilyeu?

  What would I have done back then?

• 27:50Speaker 01

  Even now, fast forward, pretend you had been single all these years. You just met your wife, you're getting along three months, but you have to break it off. And you have ultimate freedom. You do what you want, no schedule, you travel, you got a little bit of money, not much, but.

• 28:02Tom Bilyeu?

  Life has nothing better to offer you than love, so I'll take love.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  Okay, love. Last, you keep the love. But you're an unknown soul. You wield no power, you wield no respect, you have no real impact on the world. You might have it on your mom, dad, you know, friends. You're anonymous, but you got love. Or you have the ultimate will to power. You are both loved and feared. As Conan the Barbarian would say, our king is gone. The thoughts in your mind become real and you change the world, but you are celibate for the next 10 years. Assuming you had just met your wife. Now which one?

• 28:38Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I mean, assuming that I had just met my wife, I would, and didn't know.

• 28:45Tom Bilyeu?

  You have to kill my now understanding that life has nothing better to offer you than love. So now, from this perspective, for sure, the love.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 28:54Tom Bilyeu?

  But at the time, in no, no way, shape or form would I've chosen anything other than being able to build and create the things I wanted to build and create, for sure.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  That's what I thought, because notice the way you speak of the world and the conscious. You just gave me a long talk before I gave my long talk. About how you can change the world with power and money gives you more mastery. You don't want the material things. You just, what we just talked about just unfolded. I would say you're primarily environmentally, you've now become mating driven. You were born mastery and status and you taught yourself to be wiser. Okay, very few people do that. You're more advanced than the average person. But these are very strong impulses. And this one's so strong. That if I talk to her wife, she's not here, one day we'll have to have a round table with her there.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  You probably naturally continually pull this way. There's probably a tension in your marriage that sometimes she has to check and say, no, love is more important. You're you're trying to influence too much the world.

• 29:59Tom Bilyeu?

  She wouldn't say it in in that term, but you're 100% correct. So I, in my marriage, because we agree that our marriage is our highest priority.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Because there's nothing I value more than what my relationship has given me. Not success, not adoration, literally all of that pales in comparison to truly being seen and loved and building something together and sharing a life just really is, if you're wired like me, it is the peak of what life has to offer you. And it's extraordinary and I could never have imagined something so wonderful. However, that doesn't stop me from having this incredible drive to want to have impact. I mean, obviously it's called impact theory for a reason. So that really, really matters to me and being able to balance the two. And this is, I think, the core of my thesis.

• 30:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Because all I'm saying is I want people to understand what money and power actually are. Because once you know that that thing in your hand is a sword and not a hammer.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:01Tom Bilyeu?

  But that a hammer exists, then when you need a hammer, go get a hammer. When you need a sword, go get the sword. And I think people are really delusional about what they are. Because from the outside, the only way to map the territory is with your emotion about how you feel about people that have that thing. And so it gives myself, very much included, a warped sense of what it is. So for the first decade of my entrepreneurial career, I was just chasing money. And it made me profoundly unhappy. Now, had I not gone down that road of chasing money, getting money and still being unhappy, then I never would have realized, oh, wait, this isn't the game. So to your point of.

• 31:39Speaker 01

  You should have traced mastery from day one. That's what I would have told you.

• 31:43Tom Bilyeu?

  You.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  I would have told you to be, I would have told you to be like a Tony Robbins. I would have told you to be a leader of men. That's fine. Look, man, it's.

• 31:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Here's what's interesting though.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  The ultimate scam in this world is I literally am one of the only people talking about this. All those fucking million therapist, what the fuck are therapists and psychologists doing? Sometimes people, when I do a talk like this, they go, Ty, are you a, you're speaking on health? Are you a doctor? Are you, you're speaking on psychology? Are you a psychologist? Are you, you know, you're speaking on business? Do you have a Harvard MBA? I go, have you noticed?

• 32:21Speaker 01

  Doctors have failed us. Nobody's healthy in America. Almost nobody. Psych, everybody's unhappy. Psychologists have failed us. Have you noticed that most people are poor? Economists and business teachers have failed us. So I've gone on my own. And it's a tragedy that I have to do this, but I do this with opportunity. I make my mess, my message. You and I are the victim of a time in history. The rise, there's three trends. I just wrote a new book, The Three Trends. Trend number one, it's the rise and fall of governments. It's still, it still corrupts us now. We went through government schools. You know, we went, did you go to college?

• 33:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Okay, I dropped out. You know, they, they charge you 80 to 200,000 of debt to go to college and university. And they never take you, they never have you take a quiz or do anything. Fuck career counseling bullshit. They don't do shit. They don't help you know the unconscious mind. It would have been better for you to seek mastery first. And the good news is you've come full circle like a boomerang. You're back to it. I could have predicted that 10 years ago. No matter what, you'll come back to the will to power. What were your mom and dad like?

• 33:31Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, you'd probably have to ask me questions to get an answer. My mom is.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  Who was sure they're right more?

• 33:37Tom Bilyeu?

  Neither of them.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  No?

• 33:39Tom Bilyeu?

  To their detriment.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Who overthought things?

• 33:42Tom Bilyeu?

  My mom.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  How would you describe your dad?

• 33:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, very, um, he doesn't know how to manifest his will. He feels like you make the best out of life. He's, he had a thing on his desk that I remember to this day in his office that said, "The beatings will continue until the morale improves." And I remember when I first saw it, I found that absolutely hysterical. And then as I've gotten older, I realized, oh my God, my dad believed himself to be a cog in the machine and his only outlet was acerbic humor.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  But are you sure your dad didn't have a will to power? But at the time in history, men were emasculated and there wasn't social media. There wasn't the ability to start your own business. Are you sure your dad didn't have the will to power?

• 34:33Tom Bilyeu?

  I think everybody has the will to power.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Not many people that don't.

• 34:36Tom Bilyeu?

  So you don't see it as a spectrum? You see it as a binary switch?

• 34:39Speaker 01

  Oh, you know, for sure, there's a spectrum, but at some point on a one to 100 scale.

• 34:42Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, so my dad's low for sure, very low.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  I'd like to meet your dad.

• 34:46Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I'm guessing, yeah, I'm guessing you take that because genetics play a big role in your worldview.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  No, no, because he was conscious of the fact, he was making jokes. There's an ancient proverb, "Much truth is said in jest." Your dad would, what we make jokes about, what we self-deprecate is often our unconscious mind that we're not powerful enough to do. So many men, I saw this, the second I put a Lamborghini video out, all the virtue signaling men said, "I don't care about Lamborghinis, who's this douchebag?" Those guys specifically commenting, they were the ones who wanted the Lambo, but they couldn't get it. So they, how do you, it's called pain-avoiding delusion. You see it ultimately, sometimes people have full psychotic breaks with reality, but how

• 35:36Speaker 01

  do we cope with the pain of this world? We pretend we don't want that thing. But the fact that your dad had a joke on his... Desk means it was it was coming bubbling to the top.

• 35:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, so I I think everybody has the will to power for sure. Now, you may.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  I don't think they do.

• 35:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so just a second ago, I asked you, is this on a spectrum? Yes, no, or is it binary? Because if it's on a spectrum, then I will give you some people are going to be way lower on the spectrum. I'll even give you that it probably breaks way more men are way more will to power than women. All of that makes sense anecdotally with what I see out in the world. But and look, I have not sat down and like broken down my dad. But experientially, I will say that my dad is so content in his life now. Outside of he's no longer working, he's retired, and he loves his life. Now, his life is the classic puttering around the house.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  What did he do?

• 36:32Tom Bilyeu?

  He was a purchasing manager.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  What about your grandparents?

• 36:36Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, now, my grandfather on his side, he died when my dad was six months old, so I never met him. But from just what he did in life was very high on the will to power.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Which is what?

• 36:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, he was an inventor and he had some patents. And ended up getting in a scandalous relationship with my grandmother, who was forty four years younger than him. At a time where that was like clutch the pearls.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  Your dad was DiCaprio.

• 37:04Tom Bilyeu?

  I, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, my grandfather, yeah.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Sorry, your grandfather, DiCaprio Bilyeu.

• 37:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, exactly. So he ended up having to sell all his patents and move to a small town. Which is why by the time I got to my dad, there was no money and he grew up without a dad.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  But that's also mating driven.

• 37:19Tom Bilyeu?

  Terms. Uh, yes, and I don't know him, so I literally have no idea.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  I tell people, go deep into your genes. You're twenty five percent. Because people, parents are fifty percent related to you. Grandparents are twenty five.

• 37:30Tom Bilyeu?

  You tell people that because you want them to understand themselves. It's interesting. So you and I, I agree. That's super powerful. You need to understand yourself amazing. But I am fatalistic when it comes to genes. So I'm just like, look, you're you are fifty percent of you roughly is hardwired. You're not going to be able to change it. So understanding it very useful. But the fifty percent of you that's malleable is where I focus. So. If you and I were being interviewed separately, you would tell a tale of know your genetics, understand how this all plays out, don't fight. In fact, one of the quotes that I pulled from you was it's something like, uh, here it is, biology is God and society is manmade. And you were basically saying, don't fight the Fed, don't fight biology, like you are a slave to your genes.

• 38:15Tom Bilyeu?

  Now that gives me hives. I agree with you.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  You put on like that one.

• 38:20Tom Bilyeu?

  It isn't that I don't like it. So here, in fact, everybody says that, uh, you, if you are not religious, you do have a God. I have a God and that God is effectiveness. I am obsessed with effectiveness. Now, all of that for me is predicated on, I believe that your goal ought to be honorable, so that you don't end up with a Hitler who's very effective at killing people. That is not interesting to me. I don't celebrate that. But if you're trying to build something honorable, now I'm like, hey, motherfucker, if you are not paying attention to what works and what does not work, you are making a huge mistake. So I get it. There's some amount of me that is absolutely hardwired and there's nothing I'm going to be able to do to stop it. Cool. I'm not going to fight that because I think you're right.

• 39:05Tom Bilyeu?

  But I am going to spend an inordinate amount of time focused on the part of me that can change. And now, if you understand you are both, things you can't change, and so you better understand them, be able to contend with them and do not become their slave. This is why I tell people to become, you must get emotional control, because evolution is fucking with you. But over here, there are things that you can change. And just all of my thinking, everything that I do is optimized for the part I can change. So I don't disagree with anything that you're saying. I just, I, what I'm trying to get people to focus on is, please don't think you're a blank slate, which is, I think, a big part of where you're coming from. The, the, just madness that I'm watching unfold with what's happening in society when we're no longer being chased by a lion.

• 39:50Tom Bilyeu?

  And so people can indulge any intellectual fantasy that's totally detached from what's effective.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  You know who predicted this, by the way?

• 39:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Crazy. Uh, Nietzsche, for sure.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  So I'm not a communist. In fact, this weekend, I'm going on a debate where I'm the capitalist.

• 40:04Tom Bilyeu?

  Predict exactly.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  He basically predicted if you create too much wealth and ease, people go cuckoo for cocoa buffs. That was one of his things against capitalism. He's like communist, we're all gonna stay farmers. Now communism failed in his conception, but he was right about that thing. I give a man credit. Now, will you, if Maslow's hierarchy of needs at the bottom, when we're all kind of farmers like the Amish, they have 500% less depression than modern society. Because everybody's like, I gotta milk the cow and you just stay, you don't try to think you're more important, but as we move up Maslow's hierarchy of need, the top is individual expression. So I saw, I saw an art exposition in New York City where somebody was, there was a group watching them and the art was

• 40:49Speaker 01

  he was using his body as a cheese grater. And somebody was lifting him up and down and he was grating cheese and people were like, wow, this is magnificent art. And I was thinking, Karl Marx was right. Karl Marx, this guy's insane. He needs a farm. He needs, this guy needs to be milking a cow or cutting down a tree for firewood. I agree with you on that. By the way, on genetics, it's domain specific. IQ is like mostly IQ height, eye color, skin color is like 80 plus percent heritable. Some things aren't heritable at all. If we all are in a car crash at 100 miles an hour, uh, there's no heritage, you can't have inherited a gene to withstand that if you don't have a seatbelt on.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  So there's, you always got to think about, there's things you can change. You know that there's an AA Alcoholics Anonymous prayer. I don't remember, it's the serenity prayer. It's like, you know, God, give me the strength to change the things that I can change and the whatever serenity to accept the things.

• 41:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Here, God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  Wisdom to know the difference. That's kind of a woo woo way of what we know scientifically is there's some, you can't, but, but my thing about going to your ancestors, we don't have to talk about this forever. This is a, we need to do a psychology talk at one point, but.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  The re- everybody's lost in this world. I rarely find somebody who's on the right path. Now, a simple thing-

• 42:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Can you define the right path first?

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Know thyself. First piece of self-help in modern world. The oracle of Delphi. You go to Greece, there was a, there was a cave and they wrote on the wall. The best advice that mankind had at up to that point. And the first piece of advice was know thyself. But back then, they didn't understand what Nietzsche said. The mind's an impenetrable fortress. You only learn about yourself through friends and enemies. That's why, you know, the best advice, practical advice you can have on what career to take? What enemies compliment you on? Because an enemy never gives you a false compliment. So, I have people who love my brand, people who die for me, literally. I had somebody hack me the other day and a random guy wrote me on WhatsApp. Don't know how he got my number.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  He's like, "I hacked the hacker." And I was like, "Who are you?" He's like, "Dude, you've saved my life. You'll never know. You never have to know who I am. You've made me millions of dollars." Fuck that guy. I destroyed him. So, a bigger hacker attacked some random hacker. So, I have people who hate, love me and I have people who, I'm a, I'm a force. I split people down the middle. And the people who don't like me, I still listen to their compliments. Like, fuck that guy, he's just a good marketer, but he doesn't know what he's talking about. Then I become a marketer. Fuck that guy. I don't agree with anything he said on that podcast. He's damn entertaining to listen to, then I become an entertainer. So, for, go back, my mom, who's sitting right there.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  My mom used to, even your own parents will give you compliments when they're maddest at you. "Ty, I'm so, I'm so mad at you." She, my mom says, "You're a bulldog. When you believe in something, you won't stop." Well, that's my strength too. When I build a business, you know, if it, if it's failing, I'll stick with it till I rebuild it. So, know thyself. Listen to the compliments of thine enemies. That's one. I used to say, you do this thing called, I call it eulery and destiny, like geometry. You take four circles where they all connect what you should do in life. So, number one is the compliment of enemies or the compliments. Uh, the compliments of your mom when she's mad at you also count. The other circle is thine ancestors.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  When we say know ourself, what is ourself? We are- The DNA is, some scientists think the most magical thing on earth. Einstein said the most magical thing on earth was compound interest. Other smart people, and I agree with them, said the most profound thing they haven't figured out is what is DNA? Where did it come from? Did aliens seed the planet? We don't understand. It's the closest thing to having been immortal. So when I say I'm Tai Lopez, am I Tai Lopez or am I my mom Andrea and my dad Ernesto and his father? And so know thy ancestors, because in ancestors you will find the clues to your strengths and weaknesses. And so in my ancestors, what are strengths?

• 45:14Speaker 01

  I mean, one of my, my great grandfather was a great, well, I have many great scientists in my family. Martin Berkenrod, my mom's dad was a, is a famous scientist. He was a child prodigy and taught at Yale before he had an undergrad degree. So, teaching. Now, what's the weaknesses? There's much mental illness in my family. My dad had NPD, narcissistic personality disorder, probably a level of psychopathy too. He ended up in prison. You can see the prison from here, Long Beach Terminal Island.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  So he had a temper. My dad will kill you. No problem. You know, everybody has this thing about, I grew up talking back to my parents. I didn't grow up with my dad all the time, but ain't nobody ever talk back to my, dude come out of prison. My dad was an OG, he's blind in one eye, like knife wounds and all this stuff from Harlem. But that's a weakness. You have to control, I have to control rage and anger. So the second circle you draw, you got your complements of enemies and you draw your ancestors. And make sure you at least, I like to go back to great grandparents. Great grandparents have 12 and a half percent. So you have eight grand, great grandparents, that's eight and a half percent. They're as related to you as your two damn parents who are 50%.

• 46:32Speaker 01

  Your parents are just a more concentrated version of that. Okay, so then the third one is what you talk about consciously on a Saturday night when you're not working. I talk a lot about psychology when I'm not working. It makes sense for, that I became a marketer. It became sense that I became an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurship, you make money when you know people. Isn't it ironic that the man consistently the richest in the last 10 years is, you know? Some of them, Jeff Bezos, Zuckerberg, these people did a lot of psychology courses too. Psychology make you wealthy. Elon Musk, the best applied psychologist on this earth. Oh, he read. I watch him, effective altruism, manipulate the soul of mankind.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  And hopefully, like you said, for the world of power, it's for good. But don't ever think he's not a master puppet man who's now he bought Twitter. So he now has 5% of the globe check his app and he can weave the web. He's the Spider-Man, not the Batman. So you need to, what do you talk about on a Saturday night? That's the third circle. And the fourth circle, what you been doing? Because there's a lot of clues on what you been doing. What were you doing before Impact Theory?

• 47:44Tom Bilyeu?

  Quest.

• 47:45Speaker 01

  Well, before Quest.

• 47:47Tom Bilyeu?

  It was a software company. None of those things will get you where you want to go.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  But what before that? What were you doing at 14?

• 47:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Filmmaking.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  Filmmaking.

• 47:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, that. Mastery status to be known to be, it is. It's an expression.

• 48:01Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, so ironically, yes, I didn't think of it that way. So.

• 48:06Speaker 01

  Never do.

• 48:06Tom Bilyeu?

  I'll, I'll explain it how I thought of it and then you can help me go a layer deeper. So the way that I understood myself at that time was I have, I clearly have a much bigger emotional reaction to film than other people. I'm more drawn in. I have a stronger emotional reaction. I remember them longer. They really began to shape my sense of the world. So for instance, The Matrix to me is a perfect metaphor for the human condition. So when I saw that movie, it actually gave me a framework with which to think. And so I often tell people I think in movies. So there's a whole series of things where I'm a hyper responder to that art form.

• 48:50Tom Bilyeu?

  But I also, at fourteen, was a hyper responder to poetry. So I remember one day going, okay,

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Mating.

• 48:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Do we become a poet or do we become a filmmaker? And the reason I became the filmmaker, you're gonna love this, is because there was no money in poetry and I could get rich in film. Because this is like the eighties, early nineties, when Hollywood is still popping off.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  When Hollywood had status.

• 49:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes. Oh, for sure.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  You're a stat, you're not a money guy. I don't think, you don't have jewelry, you're dressed nonchalant. You're a status? But mating is there, so it's like, like, like you said, it's like, I wanna be a poet. What do poets do well with? All po-, if you're an ugly dude, become a po-, poet. Poets do well with women, my friend.

• 49:33Tom Bilyeu?

  Man, you know some poets I don't know.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  Pablo Neruda. I mean, you read Pablo Neruda to a woman all, all wordsmithing, I mean. Yeah, not all poets, but many. Well, what do you think Drake is? What do you think? What do you think?

• 49:45Tom Bilyeu?

  I think Drake is a pop star. I do not think he's a poet. Now, he is.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Wordplay.

• 49:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, but he uses ghostwriters and so I've heard I am not a Drake scholar. But, um, yeah, that's interesting. Cause going back to your earlier point, he's somebody that can control culture. Now, people that understand people.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  He's probably like you.

• 50:02Tom Bilyeu?

  They understand the cultural movements.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  Mating mastery.

• 50:06Tom Bilyeu?

  It's very possible.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  That would have been a good, that's, you're in your thing, you did it. You did it. Life came full circle. You tried to move away from your eulery and destiny and.

• 50:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, I did not try. Everything in my life. You're probably paying two salespeople to do one salesperson's job. That's where today's sponsor, Pipe Drive, comes in. An intelligent, AI-powered sales CRM loved by growing sales teams. Pipe Drive just launched meeting intelligence built right into the CRM. Before every call, it pulls deal history and past conversations into one brief. During the call, it records and takes notes. After it, it drafts your CRM updates to review and approve. So there's less admin and more selling. Switch to a CRM built by salespeople for salespeople and join the over one hundred thousand.

• 51:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Companies already using Pipe Drive. My link gets you an exclusive 30 days free instead of the usual 14 day trial. There's no credit card payment needed. Just head to pipedrive.com/impact to get started. Again, that's pipedrive.com/impact and you can be up and running in minutes. Because, so here's the tale. It's funny. We were just talking about this before I started rolling. People do not know me for the thing that I consider myself. I consider myself an artist. I am obsessed with storytelling. Video games, filmmaking, comic books, like that's, that is my life. It has been my life since I was 12 years old. From the time I was 12, I knew that I was going to be a storyteller.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:40Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, the bad news is that graduating in the late 90s from film school, I did not know how to break into the industry. YouTube doesn't exist. There's no cellphone with a camera. A no budget film is a hundred thousand dollars. I'd never met anybody with that kind of money. So end up teaching film. Meet these two very successful guys. They're like, look, you're coming to the world with your hand out and if you want to be a filmmaker, you're going to have to control the resources. And so I was like, okay, word, I need to get rich. I'll go into business. I thought it would take 18 months. It took 15 years, but it worked. So all of the like chasing money and all of that was just so that I could do what I'm finally doing now. Now, if I were to recommend to somebody a strategy, this would not be the one.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  Right. Go straight what you want.

• 52:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Correct.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  Geometry.

• 52:19Tom Bilyeu?

  Back to my God, which is effectiveness.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  You needed my eulery and destiny, this talk.

• 52:24Tom Bilyeu?

  I did.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  I needed it too.

• 52:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Where were you?

• 52:27Speaker 01

  No, I needed it.

• 52:27Tom Bilyeu?

  25 years.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  I needed it. You know why I became what I am? When I was 19, I went to a talk. One of the first millionaires I knew was a guy named Alan Nation. He spoke in a little town of Virginia. And I came up and I had questions. What do I do and what did I do? And I said, nobody seems to have the answer. I said, nobody seems to have the answer. And he said, that means you have to become that person. And so I've spent my life becoming the person that could give me the answers that I couldn't find from the world at 19. I found my destiny too.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  You found yours. That's why I said, nature laughs last. Or you ever heard of the movie Of Mice and Men?

• 53:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, of course.

• 53:09Speaker 01

  Famous movie?

• 53:10Tom Bilyeu?

  Yep, famous book.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  Famous book? Well, the full poem goes something like, "The best-laid plans of mice and men go awry." It's like, we have our conceptions, but in the end, God laughs last and says, "In my frequency-dependent selection, I need you to be this. You will be this." And some people become it, which is you. You won. And some people don't. I think that's your dad. But your dad won through you. Your dad, it would have been very interesting. You should ask your dad, what did he want to do at 14? Your dad, you might be the winner. Your dad, you know what I bet you it is? I'll tell you something interesting that people don't talk enough about. That's crazy mind-blowing to me.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  We can read people in many ways. You know, I, my cockiest thing about myself is, I will put a million dollars down and go head-to-head at anybody at cold-reading people. I think I'm the best person at reading people. And I don't even think the second-best is 50% as good as me. And I will put money, and I will swipe money. Anybody want to go to Vegas and lose their money? Put a million bucks down. We'll go cold-read a long street of people. Now, that's my narcissistic side coming out, okay? I have acknowledgement of this. Uh, but you're allowed to be narcissistic in one thing, and people will give you that. If you start getting too narcissistic, people get mad, but, um...

• 54:36Speaker 01

  Jung. You should listen to Jung on YouTube. YouTube is a gift to mankind. Before he died, somebody, some interviewer interviewed Carl Jung, the disciple of Freud, one of the greatest men to ever live. And, and there's a quote I keep on my phone. This is, if you ever want to write a quote down and get a tattoo, write this quote down. He wrote a textbook. By the way, the concept of introvert-extrovert was invented by, by Jung. He invented the worm. He also invented the word psyche that we use now. Or, sorry, persona. So, listen to this. This is a mind-blowing. He wrote a book called Psychological Types. In respect of one's own personality, one's judgment is as a rule extraordinarily clouded.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  So I meet people, one of the ways I read people is I'm like, tell me what you think of yourself. And then I'm like, okay, that's what they're not. So I've cut out 50% of the thing. Your dad's self-conception. He's probably opposite. And, but he, remember what Thoreau said, "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." What's called resignation is confirmed desperation. Your dad eventually resigned himself. And he's like, I, he was stuck in, he was, he was stuck in a matrix in time. Where you, it was very hard to be an entrepreneur. When Jeff Bezos started in 94, he had to borrow from his parents about $250,000 to put a website up.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  That was the rise of corporates. It just, there's three trends every man and woman needs to know to create wealth. The first trend in modern civilization was the rise and fall of governments. There was a time where government cared about you. There was a time when the US in the 1800s, there was less than 1% income tax. The government wasn't out to exploit you. There was a time when there were men like Abraham Lincoln, who was no saint, but he wasn't there trying to get rich. He wasn't gonna retire from the presidency and make a million dollars with a Netflix thing or a book special. I forgot, one of the recent presidents made 100. Obama has a $100 million book deal after. There was no opportunity. Abraham Lincoln died, so did JFK. So, there was a time when governments were there for you. They weren't overreaching.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  There wasn't much taxation. They weren't printing too much money, so there wasn't much inflation. And there weren't so much corruption. You know that Abraham Lincoln, every single day, I think Monday through Friday, he had the White House open. You could walk in and talk to the president. They had a line in the 1800s. You could talk to him, they were accessible. That has fallen. What we've seen through recent events, COVID and other events, government is not only not, nobody's waking up thinking about you, but they're probably there to fuck you. Elizabeth Warren passes a law that allows her to continue to trade stocks, so she makes hundreds of millions of dollars. Maybe on inside information, nobody knows. I don't know. But I've heard people say it.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  Abraham Lincoln wasn't trading stocks from his position. He died. He died because he was an accessible person and mad men came in. So it was a rise and fall of governments. Then what was next? The rise and fall of, trend two was the rise and fall of corporations. And your dad was a victim of that. See, starting, let's say 1920s, you had the rise of corporations. You had Coca-Cola, you had IBM. They were nameless, faceless corporations. People got trapped in the nine to five. That's the matrix your dad probably had a night. He was a purchasing agent. He was stuck in that thing. You could not start a business on your own if your parents weren't rich. Like even in 94, to put a website up cost in that time was $200,000.

• 58:11Speaker 01

  Dollar inflation adjusted, that cost a million bucks. Now you go to Shopify or WordPress, you put a website up for $0. So 2020, you had the rise and fall of governments being useful to you. You had the rise and fall of corporations. You know, corporations used to be loyal to you. You had a job in the 1950s. You got a pension, you retired at 60. They didn't fire you. That's all gone now. The rise and fall of corporations, they'll fuck you, not help you. So what's left? The rise of the individual. And you're early trend catcher. And I'm an early trend catcher, but it just started really in 2020. And so what you were able to do that your dad would could not do. Because he was stuck in that. I call it not the matrix, I call it the machine.

• 58:56Speaker 01

  It was still the corporate machine. He didn't have the opportunity to express his will to power. But the good news is, he lives on through you. And you did it because there's now tools for the individual to win. Before, to do a show like this, I remember in my time, where to buy TV space? Cause there was no internet. You had to have a million upfront to run commercials. I remember reaching out from Raleigh, North Carolina, I want to run a nationwide commercial. And the guy selling TV ads said, yeah, it'll be a million bucks. I'm like, what? But now the rise of individual, you can start a Facebook ad for five bucks. So we live in better times. And so everybody has to catch the rise of the individual. As I told you, it used to be the government would give you good health advice.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  Now the government has lied to everybody about health. And it's been that way in the 50s, they were wrong. And they said you should eat margarine, not butter. You shouldn't give your babies breast milk, you should give them formula. So now you become an individual, you figure out your own. You used to be stuck in a classroom that taught you nothing. Now it's the rise of individual. Educate thyself. You in a small community. You build a tribe now. You in a tribe. And so it's good times, man. Good times. Everything's good to quote the famous comedian, what's his name? That got canceled, but now is back. Everything's amazing and everybody's anxious.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Everything's amazing. Build a website for $0. You could self educate yourself. You could go to a gym. I think most gyms have an $8 a month thing. People didn't even know about gyms 100 years ago. Now you can get in shape, reverse. Reverse aging with, you know, weights, reverse aging. So everything's amazing, but as Karl Marx said, we're too high up the Maslow hierarchy of needs. That's why I tell people, you know what you do? Here's a hack. I have never told people this on a podcast, but I'll, I'll tell you, Tom. What you do is you have the wealth of the top of the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. But you take the cautionary tale from Karl Marx and you live closer to the bottom of hierarchy of need. That's why I spend half my time on a farm now. A little log cabin. I can have big mansion. I've lived in a big mansion, 17 bedrooms, 18 bathrooms.

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  You know, I got a little log house built by the Amish. Keep yourself grounded or you will go kooky. And we live in a society where people are never be stuck with one species. People are stuck in cities with one species. Yeah, they got their little poodle dogs, which most people don't even like their dogs because they keep their dogs trapped in a little apartment. Dogs want to be free, but whatever. I'm not insulting anybody. But if you really cared about the dog, no dog is happy or in a city. I know it's a necessary evil, but get away. Find a little piece of land. 90% of the world lives urban now. That means there's going to be 90% insanity in this world. You got to get to the bottom of where you're just having.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  I told your wife this before. I was like, you should buy a little farm. She's like, I'm a city person. I'm like, but for your sanity. For your sanity, don't spend all the time in the city. Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire. Everybody says, men, talk about the Roman Empire. Years ago, I read Gibbons, you know, the rise and fall of the Roman Empire. He said, it was, it became too urban. Too many lawsuits, too much corruption of politicians. They used to say, we gotta go back to our old Roman ways when we lived on the farm and out in nature. You know? And so, um, many empires have fallen when they become too urban. So. The Greek Empire, city-states, all this was a problem. Get back out. Native Americans were happy. And the Amish are the closest things to Native Americans and they are the happiest people, man. It's crazy.

• 1:02:36Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, we're gonna have to clash worldviews here.

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  Good, let's do it.

• 1:02:39Tom Bilyeu?

  There, there's so much about what you're saying that, that I agree with very much. I think it's bang on.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  More interesting when you disagree.

• 1:02:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, okay, so the, the thing that I agree with, one, just on the, the last part. I think that, um, getting back to nature is very interesting. And while both my wife and I are very much city people.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:00Tom Bilyeu?

  To your point about you really have to map yourself, even if you're talking to your enemies to figure out exactly who you are. I completely buy what Nietzsche said about we're, we really are blind to ourselves and it's only through feedback. We actually have a system here at Impact Theory that we got from Ray Dalio called, um, the dot collector. And the dot collector allows people to give you real-time feedback constantly, all the time, on like 40 different variables. And then over time, you develop this cloud of dots that really begins to tell you, are you good at this thing or not good at that thing? And it is pretty surprising how often you're not good at something you thought you were good at. Uh, so that has certainly been eye-opening, but.

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  1600, uh, the average man overestimates his ability to have a street, to win at a street fight by 1600%.

• 1:03:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Jesus.

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  You ever meet man, he's like, that's what I told you. Men are out here so out of shape now, they're pulling muscles during podcasts. But man's like, I could whip this guy's ass.

• 1:03:55Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, a little bit, not at all. A little bit of delusion goes a long way. The most delusional people are the happiest. So.

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  But they die younger. You know that they die. I went to Argentina.

• 1:04:05Tom Bilyeu?

  If you run into a fight that you are that outmatched, yes, you're going to die young.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  I went to Buenos Aires. My friend got married there. He's Argentinian. And his karate teacher went, who was a very overweight Asian dude. Who overestimate, he literally, when we're all flew down at the same time, he goes, I'm a black belt. I got you all protected. He's like, he was real cocky. He's like, I know what I'm doing. You looked at the guy. You're like, bro, you can't protect yourself from donuts. How are you going to protect us in Argentina? We land in Argentina. First day we go visit, it's called the Pink House. It's their version of White House. Guess who's the first man robbed?

• 1:04:40Tom Bilyeu?

  That guy.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  That guy. He overestimated. He wore a Rolex in Buenos Aires. You don't wear Rolexes in South America. A motorcycle, somebody came up, tapped him on the shoulder. He had a backpack, said, your backpack's open. Another dude came on a, so distracted him. Another dude came on a moped. And grabbed his watch off while he was like looking back. The other dude jumped on to it. So this fat karate guy is running down the street after a moped full of two guys. I mean, with two guys on his toes. I ran him down. I said, bro, what you gonna do when you get there? You gonna stop? These both dudes gonna turn around and stab you to death. You know?

• 1:05:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Overestimation of men.

• 1:05:18Speaker 01

  Men also overestimate their looks. You know, women, there are delusional women, but more men think they're good looking than that are ugly than women do. That surprises people because now society is saying men are, women are more delusional. Women get quicker feedback. Other women, if they act too pretty, women pop in your, their DMs and say, eh, you ain't that good. Guys never care about their men, other friends' looks. Anyway. Off on a tangent.

• 1:05:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Very interesting. Well, I mean, it's all related to the same idea of understanding yourselves, the foibles that we all have, psychology being at the root of this. I mean, it, it really, the reason I wanted to start this interview with you in particular on this is I really do think you are good at identifying what people are like, which is exactly what made you such an effective marketer. And so the delineation I'm trying to draw, because I think it really is going to matter in people's lives, is there is what is, and then there is what could be. And I think, even though I actually don't believe in free will, you have to act as if it is real. Otherwise, you slide denialism. And I don't think that's an effective strategy. And even if I'm just pre-programmed to say that, hey, I'm doing my job. So it, to me, no matter what, you need to act as if you have free will.

• 1:06:30Tom Bilyeu?

  You need to look at the different branching options in front of you and say, which one is going to, and what I advise people to do, identify your goal, and then what choice is going to be most effective in moving you towards your goal. Very simple. So, taking my dad, and dad, I love you, sorry to drag you into this podcast, the way that I would look at that is that my dad did not have the right ideas to build his frame of reference.

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:57Tom Bilyeu?

  And if you build the wrong frame of reference, which, quick encapsulation, your frame of reference is your values and your beliefs. So your values, what you believe ought to be true of yourself and the world, and your beliefs are what you believe to actually be true about you and the world. So one is sort of a moral judgment, and the other is just a recognition of fact. The problem is, we're terrible at recognizing facts. So we oftentimes, especially if we don't know ourselves well, we're painting ourselves into a corner that keeps us smaller than we need to be. Now, because my life is so evenly divided into me before said ideas, and me after said ideas, I know the path that I was on. My parents taught me to be a good employee, to keep my head down, do as little work as possible, and avoid punishment at all

• 1:07:39Tom Bilyeu?

  costs. So that's how I was raised. And then, I realized, to achieve my goals, that playbook isn't going to work. And because I rank high in mating, all of this comes down to, I feel ashamed that I'm not living up to my then-girlfriend, now-wife, what I told her I was going to do and become, in order to win her affections, and be able to sleep with her, and all the amazing stuff.

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  Schopenhauer said, men are just driven by three things: food, sex, and maybe boredom, too.

• 1:08:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, it's interesting, although I do like your, you tagged a fourth one onto that, which was envy, right?

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  Yes. I have my, not that I'm smart enough to, may be so bold to correct Schopenhauer, but studies in pessimism, I threw a little tweak in it, envy.

• 1:08:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I would agree with that.

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  You know how many men do shit that they don't wanna do, but they gotta beat that guy over there?

• 1:08:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  Like, I don't even want these shoes, but this guy has the shoes, therefore I will have the shoes that I don't care about.

• 1:08:37Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, even if it's not pathological. So for instance, we build video games.

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:42Tom Bilyeu?

  And you always wanna work a leaderboard into your video game because it's fun, even if it's only like the leaderboard only shows you and your friends.

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:50Tom Bilyeu?

  It's still fun to be like, oh, I managed to beat you. I climbed up ranks.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  Snapchat was the first thing to threaten. Now TikTok has threatened Mark Zuckerberg's empire of Facebook, WhatsApp and Instagram. But the first one to threaten it was this, the youngest billionaire up to that time of Evan Spiegel. I think he was a billionaire at 24.

• 1:09:08Tom Bilyeu?

  Whoa.

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  Married a supermodel. Came out of nowhere. I'm talking two years or something. I forget the story. I think he got fired from something else. Like, fuck them. I'm gonna build Snapchat. Becomes a billionaire. Snap score. So Pete, the more you snapped, you would do streaks and all this bullshit. I remember dude, Snap was a, Snap really helped me. I caught it. I'm talking about catching trends. I was one of the first people to a million followers on Snap. They wouldn't tell you how many you had, which I think was a mistake. They didn't, they hid the envy. But my rep told me, ah, you hit a million. I remember Kylie had 10 million.

• 1:09:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Jesus.

• 1:09:41Speaker 01

  But they would highlight me on the Snap story. I got 18 million views one time on my first, on my story, on the first Snap. It was crazy. But anyway, yes, going back to your thing, Snapchat was smart just by Snap score.

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  You know, they basically caught up to a 10-year-old Facebook and Instagram.

• 1:10:01Tom Bilyeu?

  Hmm. Yeah, I mean, anybody that can do the new thing that can tap into the psychology.

• 1:10:06Speaker 01

  But then add envy.

• 1:10:08Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I mean, that certainly is one of the plays. Um, my thing is, so going back to my dad, it's, he, he had a frame of reference that was not effective. If his goal was, yeah, I really wanna exert my will into the world. I wanna do the things that I think are amazing. If you had asked him, and I know because I have, the thing he wanted to do was work on cars for a living. That was the thing he just loved. But anyway, he lets himself. Get trapped in expectations. He shouldn't have had kids. He has kids. That takes you down a certain

• 1:10:39Speaker 01

  Kids, where you would be here.

• 1:10:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Kids. No, my dad will be the first to tell you. He shouldn't have had kids. But that he did, he's obviously so kind and loving and I love my dad and we get along great and he's like, "Look, I shouldn't have had kids, but now it's the greatest joy of my life." Like, I mean, the whole thing.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  People should have kids.

• 1:10:57Tom Bilyeu?

  We'll get into that because I actually agree with you despite the fact that I'm not having kids, but I think it's the safest.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  But you're not done.

• 1:11:05Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm done. Yeah.

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  We'll see. Have you ever been sure and something and change your mind?

• 1:11:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, yeah, but let's say I change my mind. My wife is 44, so bon chance, my friend. We'd, we'd have to go way the fuck out of our way. Anyway, uh, we'll come back to that. Very interesting, super important conversation. And as a PSA, I think the vast majority of people, if you want, but if you're on the fence, the vast majority of people should for reasons of populating the world and fulfillment. I think fulfillment is the reason I said, but, okay. So anyway, my dad, frame of reference, not moving. He doesn't have a growth mindset, so he doesn't believe I can do anything that I set my mind.

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  Defacing your property.

• 1:11:45Tom Bilyeu?

  That's okay.

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  I owe you. So. Adrian, put it on my bill. One armrest. I like this. You should just keep it this way forever.

• 1:11:55Tom Bilyeu?

  That you were here?

• 1:11:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know when people ask you to say, "I had this maniac."

• 1:11:59Tom Bilyeu?

  Ty Lopez was so strong.

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  There was a maniac here and, uh, we argued about Free Will and he, you know, started ripping things and throwing, just exactly embellish. This is Hollywood.

• 1:12:11Tom Bilyeu?

  We won't have to argue about.

• 1:12:12Speaker 01

  But you got embellished. This is Hollywood. Hollywood doesn't tell the truth, man.

• 1:12:15Tom Bilyeu?

  I have a very difficult time embellishing. It's not my shtick.

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  You have cartoons on the wall. They're not real. That's embellishment.

• 1:12:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting. Storytelling to you is embellishment.

• 1:12:26Speaker 01

  Well cartoons, I see Wonder Woman there. There ain't no woman that looks like that. It's embellishment. By the way, can I throw something out that I haven't told many people? That is, sometimes people ask, what's the current things running through your mind? It's not the Roman Empire. I did that like 10 years ago. That's old news. Real old. The thing to be thinking about now is what has the world forgot to put into the calculation of life? One plus one is two. Okay, we got that one down. Great. Even big government knows that. One plus one, one dollar to the IRS, plus one dollar to the California tax attorney, equals two dollars. If you make four, I was in the 52 and a half percent tax bracket.

• 1:13:08Speaker 01

  Yay for the US. Every million dollars you make, you get $520,000 to the government. And they can't even fix the potholes. I don't know where that money went. Perd.

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  I won't say to who. I know. Anyway, here's the thing nobody thinks about. And I'm not the person to invent it, but I'm gonna popularize it. There was a several famous scientist who came up with this term of risk aversion. Humans are risk averse. So we have all these things. You have Myers-Briggs 16 personalities. You know, you're an ENTP, ENFJ, INFJ. Somewhat doesn't help people to find out they're an advocate or something. It's a stupid test that 800 million people have taken. No offense to that company, but the Myers-Briggs test is, that's okay for dating, but it's subpar. Because we forgot one thing. Do you know there's a possibility, the only difference between you and your dad?

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Is he was a low risk taker and you're high? I find that to be the most predictive thing. I have a big, you know, I've got phone sales guys who sell for me. I used to teach them this system called the PACE system. You analyze people's personalities, you break them into practical, action, social, or emotional, and you tweak your sales pitch to their personality. Okay? I now have a more advanced system called TENS, threat-based, empathy-based, novelty-based, structure-based. It's more based off hormones. But I'm the first person to introduce, there's no quiz ever made by a human that factors in your risk tolerance. Now I tell my sales guys, fuck reading people. Tell me, all you gotta know is two things about somebody. Do they actually have any liquid money?

• 1:14:47Speaker 01

  Because you can't sell somebody something for 10 bucks if they only have nine bucks in the bank. Number two, are they low, medium, or high risk taker? Dude, you can live your whole life. If, if you're watching and you wanna learn how to read people and by today, the end of the day, by midnight, be better than 99% of all psychologists, all therapists, all great thinkers when it comes to human behavior. You can just learn one thing, learn to read people. So let me ask you something. Have you ever punched somebody after age 12?

• 1:15:17Tom Bilyeu?

  No.

• 1:15:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  Bungee jumping, any?

• 1:15:21Tom Bilyeu?

  Definitely not.

• 1:15:22Speaker 01

  Do you do anything scary?

• 1:15:25Tom Bilyeu?

  I run a company.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  Well, it's the ultimate risk.

• 1:15:28Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, no, I agree.

• 1:15:29Speaker 01

  Have you ever bet at all on something that could have lost it all?

• 1:15:33Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes.

• 1:15:34Speaker 01

  A significant amount?

• 1:15:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, my entire house, every dollar I had in the bank.

• 1:15:39Speaker 01

  Okay, so you're a high risk taker.

• 1:15:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Only entrepreneurially.

• 1:15:43Speaker 01

  But that counts. So actually scientists break out fearfulness. So there's a Hacksco score, 25, the most accurate personality test was 25 sub facets, Hacksco. H is for honesty, E is emotionality, X is extroversion, A is agreeableness, C is conscientiousness, O is openness and new experience. They all break down into sub facets. There's about 25 of them. Under emotionality, it actually is very intelligent. It differentiates, a test built in like 1990s. Differentiates between fearfulness, which you have high fearfulness. You don't like going on a motorcycle 100 miles an hour. You don't like, you know, jumping out of a plane. I'm like that too. I don't like physical pain. I've already, I do jujitsu. I've done boxing like a lot of my life.

• 1:16:26Speaker 01

  I've already been hit. I'm not excited about that. But we have low anxiety. We have, we have ability to take risks.

• 1:16:33Tom Bilyeu?

  I have high anxiety and an ability to take risks, which is weird.

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  So just so you know, um, not really. But in your conscious mind, you have anxiety.

• 1:16:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:16:43Speaker 01

  But in your behavior, my friend, an anxious, low risk taker does not bet their home, does not bet at all.

• 1:16:52Speaker 01

  Could you have lost a lot?

• 1:16:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, here's what's interesting, Ty. So I, I think you're making a misassessment of the complexity of how people make these decisions. So for instance, hang with me, the reason that I was willing to bet the house is I, my sense of identity is not tied up into whether I win or lose a business. So I will have no emotional devastation if I lose that house. So I went to my wife, I got her buy-in. If I lose the house, whatever, it is what it is. But if I don't,

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  That is a high, that is a low anxiety behavior, my friend.

• 1:17:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, tying it to anxiety, I think is going to be misleading because

• 1:17:28Speaker 01

  If I lose everything, I'm good with it. There, that's not high anxiety.

• 1:17:32Tom Bilyeu?

  So here, here's where this gets complicated. I struggle with anxiety every day of my life. So experientially, being Tom Bilyeu is a constant anxiety management game. Now, I think that my anxiety, though, is born of the body. It's not born of the mind. And so it's diet-based, it's dysfunction in the gut, whatever, whatever. And so now you've got experientially, I'm anxious, but temperamentally, I have a high threshold for risk. When it matches my frame of reference, which we never close the loop on that. Everybody has a frame of reference. It is the funhouse mirror through which you view the world. And you're going to make decisions based on all the weird distortions that are unique to you. If I thought losing my house or my business failing would make me a loser, then I wouldn't have done it.

• 1:18:15Tom Bilyeu?

  Because if I, if I valued myself based on what other people thought of me and that were true, that's how I would play. I am very much, while I fully acknowledge we are both the shout and the echo. So the shout is what you do, the echo is what people think about what you do. But I'm not swayed a lot by the echo that comes back. It's certainly a factor, but it's not a driving thing for me. But I do have a set of beliefs about what I ought to do. And I, in my belief system, ought to swing for the fences. I ought to leave it all out in the field and play to win. And so that sense of identity and belief set,

• 1:18:54Tom Bilyeu?

  And values led me to say, ah, risking the house while it is certainly high financial risk is not a high emotional risk and I value how I feel about myself when I'm by myself above everything.

• 1:19:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would just say in simple ways unconsciously you have low anxiety and consciously you have high anxiety. You have you remind people's mind can race, but if you look at their I might look, this is the difference between me and where I when I go on podcasts where if you understand this one thing about me, I'm not that interested in I find people's conscious mind boring. I'm not talking about you. I the conscious mind is a very

• 1:19:33Tom Bilyeu?

  You can be bored by my conscious

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  No, no, it's not you. I'm not, but I wouldn't have come back on your show. I don't find you boring at all. I find you interesting. In general, if you look at my behavior, I think to be a therapist would be torture to me.

• 1:19:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Why?

• 1:19:48Speaker 01

  How are you feeling today about how you feel? That's all the I don't care because in general, that is just 10% of you like the iceberg. And so for you, I a therapist would be like, you're very high anxiety. A guy like me who cares about what you do, you're very low anxiety. You bet it all and you win. High risk, high reward. So we're kind of talking semantics with each other.

• 1:20:17Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't think we are. I think this is where our worldviews collide in a very fascinating way.

• 1:20:22Speaker 01

  Maybe English doesn't have enough words for what like the Eskimos have 100 words or whatever for snow. I think we don't have enough words in English for anxiety because there's many types of anxiety.

• 1:20:33Tom Bilyeu?

  Maybe around anxiety we don't, but I think we can get to an understanding of where we have a different frame of reference and because we have different what I call base assumptions, we are we're not having the argument at the right level. And so the way that I see it is you have a base assumption that the 50% of you that's hardwired is effectively all you need to pay attention to.

• 1:20:53Speaker 01

  And I'm saying I agree with you. You should, no, we agree on that. Look, I'm an entrepreneur too. If you don't take action, you will lose. If you only rely on your genes, for example, LeBron James, you meet the guy. I want I want I'm friends with one of the Lakers and he's like, yo, I'm in New York. You want to come out to a club with us? I get there and um.

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  I knew somebody was in that room. That was special because they're like frisking me down. I even have my own security. Usually I can come into places. And they're like, wow, we do extra security here. And there's LeBron James. The man's kind of not the same species if you see him. Okay, he's not really. He's a six foot eight. Eight percent body fat. His head's about that big. He's just a big. Kind of non homo sapien. Okay, homo sapien super menace. Okay. That's genes. But if he had eaten Doritos and had no drive and no risk taking, it takes a lot of risk. To try to go become a basketball player, he would have been a nobody. So don't, I am not a fatalistic. In the sense, and I do think like quantum physics has shown us.

• 1:21:59Speaker 01

  That there is possible free will too. It's a very weird thing. This bog, did you see the new Oppenheimer movie?

• 1:22:05Tom Bilyeu?

  No.

• 1:22:06Speaker 01

  So it's probably, probably gonna win Academy Award for multiple things, even though I thought it was only a seven out of 10. I like the new movie that came out better than the one with DiCaprio, the. What is it Adrian Flowers of the Killers of the Flower Moon? That's a better movie with De Niro, but. There's a scene that nobody catches. So Oppenheimer, the main character, he comes and at the beginning, at the end, he talks to Einstein out by a pond for a few minutes. And they finally reveal at the end what Einstein whispered to him. And he said something like this, ah, the man who seeks, uh, who believes in uncertainty comes for me for certainty. So classical physics, the way we used to understand the world is things were certain. That's why Einstein did not believe in free will. It was certain. You're predestined. It's fatalistic.

• 1:22:51Speaker 01

  But quantum theory, which Einstein hated and went to his death, kind of fighting. Hawking, you know, came up with like this M theory. There's five, one to the 500. Universes in the world, multiverse. When you go to measure things, you change them so you can never measure what's actually happening. You know, string theory that things are wrapped up so small and that they just appear out of nowhere. Like Hawking talked about that. So. Einstein joked in the movie. It's a very intellectual joke that zero people got in the audience, but I was like, ah, it's like. The man who is believes in uncertainty comes for me to certainty. What Einstein was saying is we want.

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  Certainty and we want uncertainty and what you're what I'm saying is there's a certain certainty to our life that comes from our family but to feel good I need to know there's uncertainty that I can fix my damn life that sucks and I do and what we now know and I'm an amateur physicist not even an amateur but I listen to the best and I'm good at remembering what people say you know there's probably both happening there's a you want to hear a good another good quote this is a crazy pull up the book Contiki who ever heard the story Contiki it's one of the great adventure stories this Norwegian guy wanted to prove that you could go across the Pacific Ocean

• 1:24:15Speaker 01

  let that stick in in a little raft and he did it it may seem at times as if invisible fingers move us about like puppets on a string but for sure we are not be born to be dragged along we can reach back and grab the strings ourselves and adjust our course at every crossroads or take off on any little trail into the unknown that is probably the truth we are both puppets that are being manipulated by our genes and non free will that's classic physics but yet quantum physics says we can reach back and say I don't like the strings and pull back a little bit that's a great analogy for what I believe

• 1:25:00Tom Bilyeu?

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• 1:25:45Tom Bilyeu?

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