Pod Insights My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark 528 - In a Business Way About this episode This week, Georgia covers the disappearance of Brian Shaffer and Karen tells the story of a mysterious creature, the Van Meter Visitor.
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Transcript 14,548 words · 7 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Karen Kilgariff? This is exactly right.
0:06 Speaker 01 Cash Flow Crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
0:36 Speaker 02 In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way. When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, the rubber hits the road. And what the feds uncover is a complex scheme of staged wrecks, financial fraud, and a pair of conspiring lovers behind it. This is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences. Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
1:29 Georgia Hardstark? Hello and welcome. To My Favorite Murder. That's such a hard start. That's Karen Kilgariff. This is a podcast where we started out talking about true crime. Now it's a bit loosey-goosey. Would you say it's devolved? Yes. In some ways? I think it's devolved terribly. Yes. I mean terribly well. De-evolution, you know? Let's just go for it. Let it go. We are Devo. No, we're not. We are not Devo. This is My Favorite Murder. We're a podcast. Yeah. But we're also on TV. That's right. And we know how fucking weird that is these days. It's weird for all of us. It's weird for me. I finally watched a little bit of When I Was Alone, which is always a bad thing. Huh. And I was like, let's just see how we look. And I turned it on and I immediately went to the internet
2:14 Georgia Hardstark? and bought a posture-like harness.
2:18 Georgia Hardstark? That looks like-
2:19 Karen Kilgariff? Does it hook to the back wall?
2:20 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
2:20 Karen Kilgariff? It just keeps you up-
2:22 Georgia Hardstark? Like a dog. Like a dog harness?
2:24 Karen Kilgariff? Like a dog being washed?
2:25 Georgia Hardstark? Oh my god, yeah. I fucking can't even. And I also got a new hairdresser.
2:31 Karen Kilgariff? We're podcasters at heart.
2:32 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. I wonder what it's gonna be like in the next few years with podcasting and video. Like, you kinda have to do it now.
2:38 Karen Kilgariff? I know.
2:38 Georgia Hardstark? For the kids.
2:39 Karen Kilgariff? Well, it's like, or then the alt people will stay audio only. They will moralize about it, like it's better and you're a better person because of it.
2:47 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
2:48 Karen Kilgariff? Whatever, that always happens.
2:49 Georgia Hardstark? And we don't have any opinion. We're just being told what to fucking do by big podcasting.
2:54 Karen Kilgariff? By big podcasting.
2:56 Georgia Hardstark? And you know how much we love to follow rules.
2:58 Karen Kilgariff? Well, and also it's, we wanna be up with the times.
3:01 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
3:02 Karen Kilgariff? Doing what the kids do.
3:03 Georgia Hardstark? And it's fun, I think, until you watch yourself.
3:05 Karen Kilgariff? It's fun and great, as long as you don't watch yourself.
3:08 Georgia Hardstark? Just don't look. Pretend it's not happening. Do you have anything? Anything good, anything bad?
3:13 Karen Kilgariff? Um-
3:13 Georgia Hardstark? Are you reading that book Burnout that I gave you, out of my pocket?
3:16 Karen Kilgariff? No, I'm too tired.
3:17 Georgia Hardstark? Out of my purse and handed to you.
3:19 Karen Kilgariff? You're like, here, someone do something. I do have some good news, and it's a true crime update. Start doing those again.
3:25 Georgia Hardstark? Love that.
3:26 Karen Kilgariff? Fun.
3:26 Georgia Hardstark? Let's.
3:27 Karen Kilgariff? But this one's huge. The Gilgo Beach Serial Killer has been terrorizing that part of the East Coast forever. I mean, it feels like since the 90s.
3:37 Georgia Hardstark? I can't believe they finally caught him. Those are so satisfying.
3:42 Karen Kilgariff? They caught him.
3:42 Georgia Hardstark? That's amazing.
3:43 Karen Kilgariff? They caught him and he pled guilty.
3:45 Georgia Hardstark? Incredible.
3:46 Karen Kilgariff? There's not gonna be a trial. He has been formally charged with the murders of seven women. Megan Waterman, Melissa Barthelamy, Amber Lynn Castello, Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor, and Sandra Castilla. And he also admitted to killing an eighth victim, Karen Vergata, but he wasn't formally charged with her murder as part of his plea.
4:06 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
4:07 Karen Kilgariff? So-
4:08 Georgia Hardstark? Thankfully, those families aren't gonna be put through that trial. Like, what a fucking monstrous thing to go through after losing your family member in such a horrible way. I mean-
4:17 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. It's the best news in the worst situation possible. There's a quote from the Suffolk County District Attorney, Ray Tierney, though, and he said, quote, "This case closes and another opens. There are still bodies on that beach. There are still bodies in Suffolk County. There's no rest for the weary."
4:34 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, yeah.
4:35 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
4:36 Georgia Hardstark? And then there's also some Ted Bundy news.
4:39 Karen Kilgariff? What's the Ted Bundy news?
4:40 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, so a victim of Ted Bundy's has been officially tied to him. One of those ones that's been suspected since the beginning. In 1974, the body of 17-year-old Laura Ann Amy was found by hikers in Utah's American Fort Canyon. She'd last been seen months earlier, leaving a Halloween party in Utah County, where he was a fucking, what was he, a college student at the time?
5:06 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, yeah, that's right. He was going to become a lawyer.
5:09 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
5:09 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
5:10 Georgia Hardstark? And just before his execution, Ted Bundy admitted to murdering her, but there was no hard evidence to support it until very recently forensic DNA testing of case evidence has now allowed investigators to build a genetic profile that they say links Bundy to Laura's murder. So on April 1st, Utah County Sheriff Mike Smith said they are officially closing Laura's case. And I mean, I get, give her her fucking respect, you know, and her due.
5:37 Karen Kilgariff? It's been such a long time. I think that is incredible. I'm sure that the relatives and friends and family thought it was never going to happen or that they wouldn't get answers and like, yeah.
5:47 Georgia Hardstark? That wouldn't matter anymore, but it's like,
5:49 Karen Kilgariff? It does.
5:50 Georgia Hardstark? We're still thinking about it all the time.
5:52 Karen Kilgariff? Good news in the bad news realm.
5:53 Georgia Hardstark? Totally. Good news in true crime world. Like, that's, you're not going to get a fucking Lisa Frank stationary
6:00 Karen Kilgariff? Nope.
6:00 Georgia Hardstark? moment.
6:01 Karen Kilgariff? That's not what they do there. That's not what we do here.
6:04 Georgia Hardstark? True crime news, and sometimes we eat weird flavored jelly beans.
6:09 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, that's right. Yeah, that's something else to look forward to.
6:12 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
6:12 Karen Kilgariff? If we find out about them.
6:13 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Tell us about, tell us in the comments, guys.
6:18 Karen Kilgariff? Wait, you're saying KFC is making jelly beans?
6:20 Georgia Hardstark? My sister sent me a photo of a bag that the kids were so stoked on. It was like fried chicken flavor, mashed potato flavor, and like coleslaw flavor, I think.
6:30 Karen Kilgariff? We're corn niblets.
6:31 Georgia Hardstark? Right. No one, no one orders that, do they?
6:33 Karen Kilgariff? I love it. Buttered corn? No.
6:36 Georgia Hardstark? No, it's like watery.
6:37 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
6:38 Georgia Hardstark? It's so watery.
6:39 Karen Kilgariff? Just like my mother's cooking. Dry chicken, weird watery corn and some Minute Rice.
6:45 Georgia Hardstark? Vince made funeral potatoes the other day.
6:47 Karen Kilgariff? Ooh, were they good?
6:48 Georgia Hardstark? They were so fucking good.
6:49 Karen Kilgariff? We were given a funeral potato kit when we went to Utah, Salt Lake City that time, years ago.
6:54 Georgia Hardstark? Cause we didn't know what they were.
6:56 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
6:56 Georgia Hardstark? It was good, like used frozen cubed potatoes, like a can of cream of chicken soup and like just all the cheese you've ever seen. And it was all bubbly on top. I burnt my tongue.
7:06 Karen Kilgariff? And then cut up potatoes like-
7:07 Georgia Hardstark? Like a child, yeah.
7:08 Karen Kilgariff? Cause you ate them the second they got out of the stew. It must've smelled amazing. That's all of my mother's cooking was based in Campbell's soup in some way.
7:16 Georgia Hardstark? We gotta bring it back.
7:17 Karen Kilgariff? Right? Cause it's so easy. Can a cream of chicken, can a cream of celery. You're off to the races. That's sauce.
7:22 Georgia Hardstark? Pack of onion powder or like ranch powder.
7:24 Karen Kilgariff? And a half a cup of wine.
7:26 Georgia Hardstark? In your mouth while you're cooking.
7:28 Karen Kilgariff? Drink that, pour some in, toast some almonds.
7:31 Georgia Hardstark? And then you don't care what it tastes like. There are people on Instagram, I'm sure on TikTok that are like, here's me making like a classic meal from the 1970s and then they make like shit on a shingle or they make like fucking casserole with like the actual vintage kitchenware, which you know is my fucking weak spot.
7:47 Karen Kilgariff? Yep.
7:48 Georgia Hardstark? All lead based and everything.
7:49 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. You love lead.
7:51 Georgia Hardstark? Love lead.
7:51 Karen Kilgariff? It's so delicious.
7:53 Georgia Hardstark? I'd lick it like I licked mercury as a child. And here I am today.
7:57 Karen Kilgariff? Look, look at you. Didn't hurt you medically?
8:01 Georgia Hardstark? Video podcasting.
8:03 Karen Kilgariff? We are a result of mercury poisoning to camera, to camera.
8:08 Georgia Hardstark? I'm fine. I don't have a uterus anymore.
8:10 Karen Kilgariff? It's fine. Who needs it? All right. Should we talk about this network?
8:14 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
8:15 Karen Kilgariff? Because things are happening on this network.
8:16 Georgia Hardstark? Stop it. It's crazy. We have a podcast network called Exactly Right Media.
8:20 Karen Kilgariff? It's been quite a week. We are still celebrating our newest addition to the ERM family. Our friend Jake Brennan and his true crime music podcast, Disgraceland, is here on ERM. We're so thrilled.
8:31 Georgia Hardstark? We are.
8:31 Karen Kilgariff? His newest episode, which you can go check out now, is all about Grace Jones. If you don't know her, she's a legendary 80s icon. Her life collided with crime and scandal and she had to fight to protect her reputation. Of course, she was a powerful, incredible looking woman of color in the time where it was blonde women only. And it was incredible. I remember seeing her on TV and just being like, she has a crew cut. And the best cheekbones I've ever seen in my life. What's happening?
8:59 Georgia Hardstark? She's a legend.
9:00 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
9:00 Georgia Hardstark? I can't wait to listen. And then over on Bananas, Kurt and Scotty are joined by Pooja Maita. They cover octopuses getting extra cuddly on ecstasy. Oh, I'm gonna be on ecstasy with an octopus.
9:11 Karen Kilgariff? You will, you will. When the lead wears off.
9:14 Georgia Hardstark? Paragliders narrowly avoiding a polar bear enclosure and people who can mentally time travel. I fucking just read about that.
9:22 Karen Kilgariff? What is it?
9:22 Georgia Hardstark? They have such good memory that they can
9:26 Karen Kilgariff? Go back.
9:26 Georgia Hardstark? Put themselves there. Yeah, like literally be in that moment. And I think that they can also tell the future, what's gonna happen in the future too.
9:34 Karen Kilgariff? Ooh.
9:34 Georgia Hardstark? Because they understand correlation so much better than most people because they actually remember.
9:39 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
9:40 Georgia Hardstark? How I burned myself that one time. Don't do that again.
9:43 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, that's an incredible gift.
9:44 Georgia Hardstark? Imagine that.
9:45 Karen Kilgariff? To not re-burn yourself a thousand times.
9:48 Georgia Hardstark? Meaning, dating.
9:49 Karen Kilgariff? It's called dating.
9:50 Georgia Hardstark? Have fun.
9:51 Karen Kilgariff? Go back, try it again. Then over on I Said No Gifts, Bridger tries to stay calm when the greatest of all time, our friend Martha Kelly, you know her in Baskets, you know her from Euphoria. She shows up with a gift anyway, of course. They get into a gigantic fight and also storm chasing, broken air conditioners, and fighting for joint custody.
10:10 Georgia Hardstark? I love that there's a generation of young people who are scared of Martha Kelly because her role on Euphoria.
10:17 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
10:18 Georgia Hardstark? Is so terrifying and so perfect. And she almost plays the same character as in Baskets, but it's the most intimidating.
10:25 Karen Kilgariff? And Martha, I don't know if everybody knows this, is one of the greatest stand-ups.
10:29 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
10:29 Karen Kilgariff? If you go watch her live, it will blow your mind.
10:31 Georgia Hardstark? That's why it's so funny that they're scared of her. Like
10:33 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
10:33 Georgia Hardstark? Like people on the internet are scared of her. That's fucking badass.
10:36 Karen Kilgariff? It's so good. Over in Merch Corner, we've got brand new whistles. Do you need a whistle for whatever reason you might need it? Because we've got fuck politeness and we've got wheat woo. Two whistles that you can buy.
10:48 Georgia Hardstark? Keychain whistles. They're so cute.
10:51 Karen Kilgariff? Proceeds from both of these whistles benefit the National Immigration Law Center.
10:56 Georgia Hardstark? So you can order yours at ExactlyRightStore.com.
10:59 Karen Kilgariff? So this is more big news, which is very exciting, but this is almost like circumstantial. So we have a cult podcast here on ERM called Trust Me. Now there's a new cult documentary on Netflix and it's called Trust Me: The False Prophet. It's not associated directly, except that Lola Blanc, who is the host of our Trust Me, her mother, Dr. Christine Marie, is featured in this documentary because that's why Lola hosts a cult podcast. She was raised in this cult. And Christine Marie was the first guest of Trust Me.
11:29 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
11:29 Karen Kilgariff? So you can now go on Netflix and watch Trust Me: The False Prophet doc. And when you're done with that, come on to ERM, go on to Trust Me, go listen to episode one, and you get every possible part of the story you would want.
11:44 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, do it. Just in time for Mother's Day.
11:46 Karen Kilgariff? Just in time for Mother's Day.
11:49 Speaker 01 Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at OnDeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
12:19 Georgia Hardstark? The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+.
12:23 Karen Kilgariff? Sonny's life is pretty great, until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his, with one exception: his mom.
12:31 Georgia Hardstark? To everyone else, she's the same Ellen they've known their whole lives, but for Sonny, he knows something is off.
12:37 Karen Kilgariff? As his relationship with his mother begins to crack in unsettling ways, he's forced to question what happens when the perfect mom becomes a perfect stranger.
12:44 Georgia Hardstark? Is this all in his head, or is there really an imposter in his house?
12:47 Karen Kilgariff? Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nivola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.
12:55 Georgia Hardstark? Watch the Hulu original. Series Phony.
12:57 Karen Kilgariff? Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.
13:02 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
13:03 Karen Kilgariff? We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.
13:08 Georgia Hardstark? You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next, and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork and trying to figure out who to call.
13:16 Karen Kilgariff? Research shows patients spend the equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month coordinating their own care.
13:22 Georgia Hardstark? Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.
13:27 Karen Kilgariff? That's why there's Solace Health.
13:28 Georgia Hardstark? Solace provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience and can help you get answers fast.
13:34 Karen Kilgariff? Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle the logistics while you focus on your health.
13:40 Georgia Hardstark? They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options, and understanding doctor recommendations.
13:46 Karen Kilgariff? Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.
13:52 Georgia Hardstark? Advocacy improves outcomes, and Solace advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.
13:57 Karen Kilgariff? Eligibility varies by insurance plan.
13:59 Georgia Hardstark? Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice or services, must be 18 years or older.
14:03 Karen Kilgariff? Go to solacehealth.com/murder to see if you qualify.
14:07 Georgia Hardstark? It takes about two minutes and it's covered by insurance.
14:09 Karen Kilgariff? That's S.O.L.A.C.E. health.com/murder.
14:13 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye. Okay, I'm first.
14:17 Karen Kilgariff? Okay.
14:17 Georgia Hardstark? I have been waiting to tell you this story for a long time. I don't know why I haven't done it yet. It's just, I haven't put my glasses on.
14:26 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, I like the build of that where you're like, and now I'm going to. Are those new?
14:32 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
14:33 Karen Kilgariff? Cute.
14:34 Georgia Hardstark? They're okay?
14:34 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
14:35 Georgia Hardstark? Okay. This is a story that is very familiar to those of us who lay awake at night scrolling Reddit and scrolling missing persons, clickbait articles. And it takes place in Ohio, which is home to many, many cases we've covered. Ohio gives and gives.
14:54 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, it does, in a horrible way.
14:55 Georgia Hardstark? It does. And on any given day, around 1,000 Ohioans are missing, according to data from the Ohio Attorney General's Office. There are a thousand people a day missing in Ohio.
15:07 Karen Kilgariff? They're not new every time?
15:08 Georgia Hardstark? No.
15:08 Karen Kilgariff? Okay.
15:08 Georgia Hardstark? Just like.
15:09 Karen Kilgariff? It's the consistent count is that high?
15:11 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, it's very high. So today, we're going to talk about one of those missing people, one of those thousand. And due to eerie surveillance footage, that's kind of hard to fully reconcile. This story has become more of an urban legend, ending up on those late night doom scrolls about mysterious disappearances. But unfortunately, it's not an urban legend. It's a true tragic story for one Ohio family in the mid 2000s. This is the story of the disappearance of Brian Schaefer.
15:38 Karen Kilgariff? Okay.
15:39 Georgia Hardstark? Do you know yet what I'm? You'll know when I explain. Do you see that?
15:44 Karen Kilgariff? What did it look like?
15:44 Georgia Hardstark? I don't know. I can see everything now. Looked like a cat hair.
15:48 Karen Kilgariff? Your vision is too good.
15:49 Georgia Hardstark? It's so good.
15:49 Karen Kilgariff? You're like, can't read. Did you see that? It was an atom. Is Brian Schaefer the guy who left a party and they found like a canoe?
15:59 Georgia Hardstark? No. No.
16:00 Karen Kilgariff? Okay.
16:01 Georgia Hardstark? I'm like, what?
16:02 Karen Kilgariff? Because that was on true crime bullshit because it was about a potential Israel Keyes victim.
16:06 Georgia Hardstark? Right. There is a similarity there. Like, I think you're close, but okay.
16:09 Karen Kilgariff? Okay.
16:10 Georgia Hardstark? So the main sources I used for the story are an article in Columbus Monthly by April Johnston, one from Mel Magazine by Kirk Pepe, and one from the Columbus Dispatch by Mike Wagner. And the rest of the sources are in the show notes. Okay. So.
16:26 Karen Kilgariff? Your eyes are a little bit bigger with those glasses on.
16:28 Georgia Hardstark? Does it look insane?
16:30 Karen Kilgariff? Not like Jerry Seinfeld in that episode where he's wearing the weird glasses. But it just, when you went like that, you were just like, huh. It's like.
16:38 Georgia Hardstark? Is it weird? I feel himself conscious.
16:41 Karen Kilgariff? That you don't have perfect vision?
16:42 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
16:42 Karen Kilgariff? Come on.
16:43 Georgia Hardstark? I'm getting older.
16:44 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. We're falling apart on Netflix.
16:46 Georgia Hardstark? Truly.
16:47 Karen Kilgariff? It's great.
16:48 Georgia Hardstark? All right. This is serious. It's the wee hours of Saturday, April 1st, 2006, April Fool's Day. We're at the ugly tuna saluna.
16:58 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
16:59 Georgia Hardstark? That's what it's called.
17:00 Karen Kilgariff? Great.
17:00 Georgia Hardstark? It's a popular college bar at the edge of the Ohio State University campus. You know, those like blocks, like there's some in Austin that we've been to or Nashville.
17:09 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
17:10 Georgia Hardstark? We just walk and there's just like bar after bar, kind of interchangeable, just for college kids to get drunk cheap.
17:17 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
17:17 Georgia Hardstark? You know?
17:17 Karen Kilgariff? Totally.
17:18 Georgia Hardstark? Although it isn't really a safe area either. So, three second year medical students have been bar hopping around town, blowing off steam because they've just finished their final exams. Med school, of course, is extremely high pressure and stressful, but for one of these students, 27-year-old Brian Schaefer, it's been a particularly awful few months. So, just three weeks earlier, in March, he lost his mom, Renee, to cancer. Then he had to just pivot and turn around and take his exams, his medical exams.
17:50 Karen Kilgariff? The same thing happened to my mom when she was taking her nursing test, her RN licensing test. Her dad died like the day, either the day of or the day before.
17:58 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God.
18:00 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. And you just shut it all down.
18:01 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
18:02 Karen Kilgariff? And you do what you gotta do.
18:03 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
18:03 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
18:04 Georgia Hardstark? But it does seem like Brian's ready to take a break from this stress, and that's what this night is about. On the night of March 31st, so before the first, he goes out to dinner with his dad, Randy, then he meets up with his friend Clint Florence. He'd also invited his brother Derek to come out, too, but Derek and his wife were at a comedy show and it was, they just went home afterwards. So, let me tell you about Brian. Everyone's like, he's an ordinary, normal college student. But he's also like this beautiful, charming person. This is Brian and his dad.
18:33 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, yeah.
18:34 Georgia Hardstark? So, that's Brian. He's like, good-looking. He looks like a cross between a young Tony Hawk and John Mulaney. Do you see that?
18:42 Karen Kilgariff? Sure.
18:43 Georgia Hardstark? So, yeah, he's like a good-looking, he's fit, he's smart, he is nice and friendly and is, you know, a pretty normal person.
18:50 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
18:51 Georgia Hardstark? So, Brian and Clint start off at the Ugly Tuna Bar, and just before 10:00 PM, Brian calls his girlfriend, fellow second-year medical student Alexis Waggoner.
19:02 Georgia Hardstark? She's a few hours away in Toledo, staying at her parents' house, but she and Brian are planning to go on a trip to Miami together, I think for spring break. They're supposed to leave two days from then, and they're both looking forward to it. According to many people who tell this story who were there, Brian is planning to propose to Alexis on this trip. So he's just, you know, in the prime of his life.
19:21 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
19:22 Georgia Hardstark? So shortly after this call, Brian and Clint start going bar hopping. They stop at seven other bars and they take a shot at each bar. And I guess, I asked Vince, like, how many shots would make you shitfaced?
19:36 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
19:36 Georgia Hardstark? Because I think I heard somewhere that they had like 11, up to 11 shots.
19:40 Karen Kilgariff? I mean.
19:40 Georgia Hardstark? And I'm like, well, you know, you're six, he was like six foot two and big. Is he gonna be drunk? And Vince is like, fuck yeah. And you're drinking a beer at the same time. You're not just going in and having a shot. You're like,
19:51 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
19:51 Georgia Hardstark? That's speculation, obviously, but.
19:53 Karen Kilgariff? No, that makes sense. Also, the more, like, just thinking, I'll talk about myself, the more shots I took and then beers I backed with it.
20:01 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
20:01 Karen Kilgariff? The more I was like, well, it's fine. I'm fine. Let's keep going. So you'd like, once you're over eight, it's mayhem.
20:07 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
20:07 Karen Kilgariff? You're making all bad decisions. Yeah.
20:09 Georgia Hardstark? No shots. That's my rule.
20:11 Karen Kilgariff? Shots just get you to a whole different place that you kind of can't plan for.
20:15 Georgia Hardstark? No, no. So they presumably become very drunk, and then along their bar crawl route, Brian and Clint meet up with a friend of theirs, a woman named Meredith Reed. And towards the end of the night, Meredith drives everyone back to the Ugly Tuna. They end up back there at 1:15 in the morning. And so the Ugly Tuna is actually inside a bigger indoor complex, kind of like where the Alamo Drafthouse is.
20:41 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, yeah, yeah.
20:41 Georgia Hardstark? You know, you go up the escalator and there's like the bowling alley there, the drafthouse there.
20:46 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
20:46 Georgia Hardstark? So the indoor complex is called The Gateway, and it has a movie theater and some stores and offices and some university housing. So the entrance to the Ugly Tuna is inside and up an escalator on the building's second floor. So surveillance footage from that night shows Brian, Clint, and Meredith riding up on the escalator and then entering the bar.
21:05 Karen Kilgariff? Hmm.
21:05 Georgia Hardstark? So that's the three of them.
21:07 Karen Kilgariff? Okay. So they know for a fact they were there.
21:09 Georgia Hardstark? They see all three of them. There he is, going up into the bar. He's corroborated that he is there.
21:16 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
21:16 Georgia Hardstark? You can see the escalators and right outside the entrance of the bar, but you can't see the actual doorway of the bar. And there's no footage from inside the bar. But it's clear that three of them walk back in. And then we never see Brian leave, ever. So at about 1:57 a.m., right before the bar is scheduled to close at 2:00, Brian is just barely visible on the surveillance footage, standing outside the ugly tuna, talking to two women casually. According to some accounts from that night, Brian was maybe flirty. That's, again, speculation, and you can't really tell much from CCTV footage, like body language.
21:54 Karen Kilgariff? If you have some beers, that's what everyone's doing. Fun times, good times.
21:58 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, it might mean nothing. So people, and there's so little to go on in this story, that like people just cling to things and make up their own stories about it.
22:06 Karen Kilgariff? They're trying to figure something out.
22:08 Georgia Hardstark? Right. So the women go back into the bar, they use the bathroom, they leave, and they don't see Brian again. Meanwhile, Clint and Meredith, who are back in the bar, can't find Brian as they're all planning on leaving when it's closing. It's unclear if Brian went back into the ugly tuna or if he went elsewhere in the complex after talking to those women, but he definitely did not leave the complex via the escalator that is in view of the security cameras. The cops like combed this video footage after the fact, and he is not in it.
22:37 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
22:38 Georgia Hardstark? Clint doesn't know that, and after looking for Brian and calling his phone, he assumes Brian had just Irish goodbye and gone back to his apartment, which is very close by, and so they leave.
22:47 Karen Kilgariff? And if it's a complex like that, there's plenty of other exits.
22:50 Georgia Hardstark? No.
22:50 Karen Kilgariff? There's not?
22:51 Georgia Hardstark? No, we'll get to that. But also, like, I feel like 2006, it's not like we were texting each other constantly. Like, you would have been like, yo, I went home. You call if he didn't pick up.
23:01 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, much more stuff was assumed.
23:03 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
23:03 Karen Kilgariff? Like, it was just like, you're not there anymore. We had a plan, but you must have.
23:08 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, and he's a grown, it's not like he, you know, is a woman, and you're worried about them getting home safely in the same way you are about a dude just walking away and going home.
23:16 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
23:16 Georgia Hardstark? It's like, not that big of a deal.
23:17 Karen Kilgariff? And it sounds like a very intelligent guy.
23:20 Georgia Hardstark? Right, yeah, right. But also really drunk, so that's a little worrisome, but what are you gonna do? All day Saturday and the next day, Sunday, no one seems to be able to get in touch with Brian. Alexis, his girlfriend, tries several times, but no one's answering his phone. He's not returning her calls, which is unlike him. And so the next day is Monday, and Brian and Alexis, this is when they're scheduled to leave for their trip to Miami. From what I've read, Alexis is just like, he's, something happened to his phone. I'm just, you know, everything's gonna be fine. I'm just gonna meet him at the airport. I bet that's what's happening. So she goes to the airport, and he doesn't show up. And he misses his flight. And that's when Alexis and Brian's father contact the Columbus police. And a missing persons case is opened.
24:05 Karen Kilgariff? What a horrible.
24:06 Georgia Hardstark? I know, just sitting there waiting to see his face.
24:08 Karen Kilgariff? Sitting there, like, because you get that thing, you know, in the very, much, much, much smaller version where you're kind of like, no, it's like, it's all just going to come together and it's just going to work. And this will be, this is the final chance for him to, he'll just get out of a car. And here we go on vacation.
24:24 Georgia Hardstark? There'll be an explanation and we get a move on. And you're just waiting with like, kind of in the back of your head, knowing that it's not going to happen.
24:31 Karen Kilgariff? It's not realistic.
24:33 Georgia Hardstark? So Brian's dad, Randy, goes over to Brian's apartment. Nothing seems out of place. His bed is made, his books, textbooks are all there. Police find that Brian's bank account and credit cards are untouched. You know, there's, of course, in the beginning, people are like, he must have just taken off on his own. And there's that trip to Miami, like, maybe he just like fucking left town, was there already.
24:54 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
24:54 Georgia Hardstark? So very early into the investigation, police get that surveillance footage from outside the ugly tuna, Saluna. God, I don't want to say that anymore. But it doesn't answer any questions. He just, it appears that he just disappears into thin air. There are other ways out of the building. One of them, they don't really make sense. One of them's like a back door. And I think there is video footage of that, but he's not in it. And then one is like, the building was under construction. So there is a service door leading down to a construction site outside of the building. That exit is covered with plywood. You kind of have to climb down through a shaft. Like, why would he go that way?
25:33 Karen Kilgariff? But if he's super drunk and he could have fallen or some, you know, an accident.
25:39 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
25:39 Karen Kilgariff? I don't know.
25:40 Georgia Hardstark? So he could have possibly fallen, gotten hurt, but the area is searched and Brian is not found. And other businesses in the gateway building have cameras and the buildings around the gateway also have cameras. But as far as we know, Brian never shows up on any of the security footage. He just goes up into the fucking bar and disappears. And I've always imagined him, like you said, still in there, having fallen somewhere. Like, did you see that recently, like, a woman got stuck in her crawl space and like died? And she'd been missing for years and years.
26:10 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, that's happened. I think we did a story about that one time, too.
26:14 Georgia Hardstark? Or it's like. A fireplace.
26:16 Karen Kilgariff? The fireplace one, I think there was a rock club one too.
26:19 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
26:19 Karen Kilgariff? Which is so rare.
26:20 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
26:21 Karen Kilgariff? It's like, it's just the oddest thing.
26:22 Georgia Hardstark? And they would have smelled something and they did a, I mean, they did multiple thorough searches, it seems, of this entire complex, but who the fuck knows?
26:30 Karen Kilgariff? Can I tell you one theory just popped into my head? Cause if these other stores had cameras and if somebody that was in one of those stores was involved, then they could have gone and like erased the camera.
26:40 Georgia Hardstark? Sure.
26:41 Karen Kilgariff? Or they're like, oh, sorry, our cameras erase every day or something.
26:43 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
26:44 Karen Kilgariff? And covered their own tracks.
26:45 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
26:46 Karen Kilgariff? Just that it's not freestanding. It's like there's other places and other people that are kind of set there.
26:52 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
26:52 Karen Kilgariff? And like, this is what we're doing, right? Theorizing, kind of?
26:55 Georgia Hardstark? And there's a total possibility that he is on those surveillance cameras and we just, it doesn't, it hasn't, I can't imagine it hasn't been connected, but.
27:02 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
27:03 Georgia Hardstark? Who the fuck knows? Weirder things have happened. Sergeant John Hurst of the Columbus Police, he's the lead detective on this case. He believes that this is the likeliest route that Brian took out of the building, that he'd left through the shaft, wound up in the construction site and then left the construction site or was taken from it. One more interesting detail that Hurst says is that dogs tracked Brian's scent from the construction site to a nearby Wendy's, like across the street, then possibly to an abandoned building and then they lost the scent completely. We've also heard the stories of drunk people ending up in dumpsters and those getting emptied. I mean, that's such an awful fucking thought, but he got, maybe got beat up and put, I
27:46 Georgia Hardstark? mean, this is clearly just more speculation that everyone does.
27:50 Karen Kilgariff? That's all you're left with.
27:50 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
27:51 Karen Kilgariff? It's all you're left with.
27:52 Georgia Hardstark? So this area of downtown Columbus, where the Gateway Building is, is known for having a pretty high crime rate. And so part of the reason the Gateway was built was for the university to establish kind of a safer area for students to hang out. But again, this also means that there are cameras pretty much everywhere and no trace of Brian is seen on any of them. A massive search effort expands outward from the Gateway Center with Brian's friends, family and Alexis, his girlfriend, all working tirelessly to search the nearby Olentangie River. And also they check every dumpster, but it had already been a few days before he was reported missing and no sign of him is ever found. Alexis calls Brian's cell phone every day.
28:34 Georgia Hardstark? It always goes straight to voicemail, except one time, several weeks after Brian's disappearance, it rings once. Can you imagine?
28:42 Karen Kilgariff? That idea that this is the last connection and you're just gonna keep trying because nothing else is working and the people who are supposed to be helping you or solve it
28:49 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
28:49 Karen Kilgariff? can't do it.
28:50 Georgia Hardstark? There's no answers.
28:51 Karen Kilgariff? And so then you have this one way and that's just like the only thing you can hold on to and then it rings.
28:57 Georgia Hardstark? And you're so desperate, you're almost, you also are like, I, if he left me and doesn't want to be any, with me anymore, good, I just need to know what happened.
29:05 Karen Kilgariff? Right, right.
29:06 Georgia Hardstark? So like, yeah, it fucking rings once and Brian's cell carrier believes it was just a glitch and not Alexis making an actual connection with Brian's phone. It's 2006, so it's so hard to tell. And that said, in the 30 days after Brian's disappearance, his phone pings several towers around the Columbus area. It's that telephone ping thing that we got in serial that like, does it make sense or does it, is it just a fluke? Is it an accident?
29:34 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, as we do
29:36 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
29:36 Karen Kilgariff? in these things where we take conjecture from the things we've learned from the media.
29:40 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
29:41 Karen Kilgariff? So my thing is like Law and Order where it's like, well, someone found the phone on the ground.
29:46 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
29:46 Karen Kilgariff? And it's their phone now for a little while.
29:48 Georgia Hardstark? And then they ditch it.
29:49 Karen Kilgariff? Right, and it's not connected and it's not that, but...
29:52 Georgia Hardstark? But like, if that person came forward and said where they found the phone, it would help so much more than them getting in trouble for stealing a lost phone.
30:01 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
30:01 Georgia Hardstark? You know what I mean?
30:02 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, but they already stole something and they don't know why, how important it would be.
30:06 Georgia Hardstark? They know, I don't think. I feel like someday, in the same way, DNA, you're, we're able to like, read it better. I think the pinging phone thing is gonna make more sense one day.
30:16 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
30:16 Georgia Hardstark? Although I wonder if it's gonna be able to be useful for old cases like this.
30:20 Karen Kilgariff? What I hope is we someday get rid of these fucking phones.
30:23 Georgia Hardstark? That's a little wish.
30:23 Karen Kilgariff? And let's just go back to long form letter writing. I think it's best.
30:27 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, that's great. I love it. And this is one of the biggest mysteries of the case, as is the elevator footage. All calls to Brian's phone go straight to voicemail suggesting that the phone had lost battery or was turned off. But if it was pinging towers, it would have to be turned on. And some people, reditors, a lot of reditors, believe this must mean that someone had Brian's phone and it was periodically turned on, like we said. So in 2007, it wasn't possible to pinpoint the phone's exact location, though I wonder if someday it will be, or if it's just such like old technology at this point.
30:59 Karen Kilgariff? Well, it'd be great if it could happen and it'd be great if we could focus on things like that.
31:03 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
31:04 Karen Kilgariff? You know?
31:04 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. And the case attracts tons of attention, of course. Brian, he's also a musician who is actually considered becoming a musician as his career before picking medicine instead. He's a massive Pearl Jam fan and he has a Pearl Jam tattoo, the stick figure from the art.
31:22 Karen Kilgariff? That's how I know this name.
31:23 Georgia Hardstark? Really?
31:24 Karen Kilgariff? Well, because Pearl Jam started talking about it, right?
31:26 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Eddie Vedder learns about the case and talks about it at a show in Cincinnati. That's the tattoo.
31:31 Karen Kilgariff? He has that tattoo, yeah.
31:32 Georgia Hardstark? It's just a stick figure. So he dedicates a song to Brian and this brings even more attention to the case, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to turn up any fresh leads. So, you know, there's the theories. Some people believe that Brian died accidentally in the construction site and there was some conspiracy by the developer or the local government to cover up his death, but, you know, not wanting to lose funding or stall the project somehow. But it seems like a lot of trouble to go through in a very quick time and a lot of people to be complicit in doing that. I don't.
32:05 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
32:05 Georgia Hardstark? There'd be one guy, like, I'm not, no. Another theory that comes up again and again in this case, and really when any young man disappears on a night out in the Midwest, is that this could be the work of an unknown serial killer who some people call the smiley face killer, not, except for from the happy face killer. Believers in the smiley face killer theory, so we don't even know if there's an actual serial killer out there.
32:28 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
32:28 Georgia Hardstark? Note that young men, often drunk, have disappeared from many college campuses, particularly in the Midwest. Often they're eventually found in bodies of water near campus. And often a spray painted smiley face has been found somewhere on the banks of the river.
32:43 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
32:44 Georgia Hardstark? So it all might just be a coincidence.
32:47 Karen Kilgariff? Totally. And yet then you kind of underlay that with the Israel Keys story where we had a serial killer who was intentionally crossing state lines and driving all over so he could kill people randomly or make it look random.
33:00 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
33:00 Karen Kilgariff? I mean. That's the unfortunate thing. It's just like that because that I remember trying to do the smiley face killer on this show.
33:07 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
33:08 Karen Kilgariff? And it's just, it is like, it's a ton of the same story and so frustrating because it's like, and then he disappeared or then he was found.
33:15 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
33:16 Karen Kilgariff? Dead in this water. But graffiti near.
33:19 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
33:20 Karen Kilgariff? A horrible accident is not uncommon.
33:22 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
33:23 Karen Kilgariff? Trying to lace all that together, but at the same time, it's already happened that way.
33:28 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
33:28 Karen Kilgariff? Israel Keyes is the proof that this could be happening. Other people could be doing it.
33:32 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, right. It's not impossible. No such smiley face has ever been found on the banks of the Olentangie River. The FBI has always maintained that there is no such killer and that the presence of the smiley face graffiti is just a coincidence.
33:46 Karen Kilgariff? Sorry, they say the same thing about Lady Bird Lake.
33:48 Georgia Hardstark? I know. We're not doing that. We're not gonna believe the FBI.
33:51 Karen Kilgariff? Okay.
33:52 Georgia Hardstark? Ever.
33:52 Karen Kilgariff? Sounds good. Ever again.
33:54 Georgia Hardstark? Ever again. Another theory is that Brian did leave the bar under his own power, that he changed his clothes and put on a different hat so he wouldn't be recognized in the footage and the surveillance video. And then people point to Brian's grief over his mother's recent death, that apparently Alexis asked him to quote, "Go away, just go away with him." That maybe he had been planning to run away. But why would he, you know, it just doesn't seem likely that he would have put his family through that all this time.
34:23 Karen Kilgariff? No. And what, did he just graduate from medical school or is about to?
34:27 Georgia Hardstark? He just finished his exams for that year or for that semester.
34:31 Karen Kilgariff? You do all that work.
34:32 Georgia Hardstark? Exactly.
34:33 Karen Kilgariff? And all years. And then you're just like, whatever.
34:36 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
34:36 Karen Kilgariff? It seems least, it seems like that's bumped down to the lower percentage of possibility.
34:41 Georgia Hardstark? It just, yeah. And then his credit cards and money is, aren't touched ever. Like, you'd never hear from him again. Sounds kind of impossible.
34:48 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, intentionally.
34:50 Georgia Hardstark? And he was close to his family. After all they'd gone through with their mom. It just seemed really out of character for him, people said.
34:55 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
34:56 Georgia Hardstark? So Brian's dad, Randy, and his brother Derek worked tirelessly to try and find Brian or any, any clues that could lead to finding out what happened to him. At one point, Randy, the father, consults a psychic who says Brian is in the Olentangie River, says he was caught in a whirlpool by a specific peer, like gives him all this information, this grieving father. Randy puts on waders and goes out to the spot and almost gets sucked into a whirlpool under the surface himself.
35:26 Karen Kilgariff? So sad.
35:26 Georgia Hardstark? So it's just fucking.
35:27 Karen Kilgariff? So sad.
35:28 Georgia Hardstark? It gets worse. In the year after Brian's disappearance, Randy never lets up and is constantly calling Brian's friends. He calls Alexis and the police to discuss any possible developments. Like, he just dedicates himself to finding out what happened to his son. Then, in September of 2008, there is a powerful windstorm in the town where Randy lives, and Randy's trying to clear some debris, and a large branch falls off the tree and kills him.
35:57 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, this poor family.
35:59 Georgia Hardstark? I know, like, the poor, the brother who suddenly lost his entire family within, like, within two or three years.
36:06 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, my god.
36:07 Georgia Hardstark? I know. So, in the years since, though, Derek has taken a step back from the case, understandably trying to protect his mental health.
36:14 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
36:14 Georgia Hardstark? You know? And Alexis spends a year also trying to search for Brian, manning the tip line, participating in physical searches, and still calling his phone every day. And about a year later, in 2007, she tells herself she needs to stop for her own sanity. And, I mean, not stop, but just not become, be so involved in it be your entire life.
36:37 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, the just focusing only on this tragedy over and over every day, which I'm sure in the beginning was like, a way to get up and out of bed and dedicate yourself to something. But, yeah, it's...
36:48 Georgia Hardstark? Years of not finding any clue.
36:51 Karen Kilgariff? So crazy.
36:52 Georgia Hardstark? I know. And then about six months after that, her mom introduces her to a contractor named Eric. They fall in love. He's very understanding. And they ultimately get married and have two sons and settle down in Toledo, where Alexis works as an obstetrician now, delivering babies. She doesn't believe in any one theory. She tells the Columbus Dispatch that she's kind of numb from that time in her life. And she says, quote, "It almost feels like this all happened to someone else."
37:19 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, because it's just so strange and...
37:22 Georgia Hardstark? And took up so much energy and effort of your life, and then you had to walk away from it and just pretend that everything...
37:29 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
37:30 Georgia Hardstark? Moved on.
37:30 Karen Kilgariff? You had no choice but to move on.
37:32 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. This month marks the 20th anniversary of Brian's disappearance. The case remains open and the Columbus police say they still receive tips and pursue all leads.
37:41 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
37:42 Georgia Hardstark? In a prepared statement for the 20th anniversary of Brian's disappearance, his brother Derek says, quote, "Every day we think about Brian and can't believe it's been 20 years. We still continue to hope and pray to have answers someday and wish that anyone who knows anything would come forward." And that is a story of the mysterious and tragic disappearance of Brian Schaefer.
38:03 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
38:04 Georgia Hardstark? I know.
38:05 Karen Kilgariff? Hey, if the Gilgo Beach serial killer can get found and arrested years and years later.
38:10 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
38:11 Karen Kilgariff? This person can get found.
38:13 Georgia Hardstark? I feel like there's a simple explanation. I don't think it's some big conspiracy.
38:17 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
38:18 Georgia Hardstark? You know what I mean? It's just simple and not nefarious, maybe.
38:23 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
38:23 Georgia Hardstark? Because the ex-detective is going to write a book about it and they haven't ruled out murder, but it's like, you can't rule it in either because there's nothing there.
38:33 Karen Kilgariff? What an incredibly frustrating story you've just told me.
38:36 Georgia Hardstark? Sorry, I know you.
38:37 Karen Kilgariff? But I really love that you did it. The fact that it's the 20th anniversary.
38:40 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
38:41 Karen Kilgariff? And that it's that kind of thing where it's like, missing persons, where everyone just puts their hands up. And it's like, why haven't we established governmentally, like, huge cold case teams or missing persons teams where it's like a dedicated group of people and that's their job? And so that the family doesn't have to do it? And it's not left to the people who are hurt the most by it? Wow.
39:39 Karen Kilgariff? He wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his with one exception, his mom.
39:45 Georgia Hardstark? To everyone else, she's the same Ellen they've known their whole lives, but for Sonny, he knows something is off.
39:50 Karen Kilgariff? As his relationship with his mother begins to crack in unsettling ways, he's forced to question what happens when the perfect mom becomes a perfect stranger.
39:58 Georgia Hardstark? Is this all in his head, or is there really an imposter in his house?
40:01 Karen Kilgariff? Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nevola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.
40:09 Georgia Hardstark? Watch the Hulu original series, Phony.
40:11 Karen Kilgariff? Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.
40:16 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
40:17 Karen Kilgariff? We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.
40:22 Georgia Hardstark? You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next, and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork, and trying to figure out who to call.
40:30 Karen Kilgariff? Research shows patients spend the equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month coordinating their own care.
40:36 Georgia Hardstark? Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.
40:41 Karen Kilgariff? That's why there's Solace Health.
40:42 Georgia Hardstark? Solace provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience and can help you get answers fast.
40:48 Karen Kilgariff? Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle the logistics while you focus on your health.
40:54 Georgia Hardstark? They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options, and understanding doctor recommendations.
41:00 Karen Kilgariff? Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.
41:06 Georgia Hardstark? Advocacy improves outcomes, and Solace advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.
41:11 Karen Kilgariff? Eligibility varies by insurance plan.
41:13 Georgia Hardstark? Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice, or services must be 18 years or older.
41:17 Karen Kilgariff? Go to solacehealth.com/murder to see if you qualify.
41:21 Georgia Hardstark? It takes about two minutes, and it's covered by insurance.
41:23 Karen Kilgariff? That's S-O-L-A-C-E health.com/murder.
41:27 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
41:28 Karen Kilgariff? Great one. I also have a bit of a mystery story to tell you today.
41:33 Georgia Hardstark? Great.
41:34 Karen Kilgariff? But it's a real left turn.
41:35 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
41:36 Karen Kilgariff? Very different.
41:37 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
41:38 Karen Kilgariff? And it's one of those ones I'm excited to tell you about. It begins on Tuesday, September 29, 1903.
41:43 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, shit.
41:44 Karen Kilgariff? You know what that is. The turn of the century. My favorite time. And we're in a small town, Van Meter, Iowa. Okay. It's around 1:00 AM. And a man named Ulysses G. Griffith is heading home after a long day of work. Ulysses is in his mid-30s. He runs a farm equipment business. Such a different time. And the business requires him to travel all around the region. He often makes it home quite late. And we assume he's traveling in probably a horse-tron wagon, since it's 1903. Right. And of course, he's exhausted. It's a lot of long, slow travel. So he rolls onto Van Meter's Main Street. And then he sees something incredibly strange.
42:27 Karen Kilgariff? There's a bright beam of light coming from the roof of a nearby building, cutting into the nighttime sky. So this is 1903. We are in rural Iowa. It's a darkness that none of us really understand anymore. Oh, God, I bet. Before the Rural Electrification Act. Yeah. So some towns did have electricity, but it was usually when people had it in their homes, it was people with money. Right. So it took a while for everybody to get it evenly. So this kind of like spotlights and things, it's, no one's seen that before. Yeah. Most towns like this in America don't have streetlights. Yeah. Or if they do, they have gaslights and they're probably out by then, like that time of night, right? Totally. We have a picture of Van Meter, just to get the sense of...
43:12 Karen Kilgariff? Oh. You know? Yeah. Right? Small turn-of-the-century town. Train stops through it. It's big enough to have its own train stop. Yeah. Huge, but not big enough to have its own newspaper. Got it. We're right in there. And then, just in the background, no lights. Nothing. There's nothing. No. So Ulysses is baffled, of course. He's just staring at this bizarre sight, trying to figure out what he's looking at and where it's coming from, when suddenly, the light jumps to another rooftop. And then it jumps again, and then it vanishes into the darkness. Is this an alien story? We'll see. Okay. This is such a small town and incredibly tight-knit community, so of course, word of Ulysses's experience, is that the plural of Ulysses? Ulysses. Ulysses.
43:58 Karen Kilgariff? Ulysses. Ulysses. Word of this strange experience spreads very quickly, but no one knows what to make of it. And luckily, Ulysses is described in old county records as, quote, "among the leading men in town, both socially and in a business way, and uniformly respected," end quote. So we don't think he's bullshit. Yeah. Or an old drunk tractor salesman who's just like, "What's that up there?" It's like, "It's the moon, Ulysses." People of Van Meter know him as an even-keeled, honest man who is not one for practical jokes. Still, there is no explanation, and there's really no way to find one. So time passes and life just kind of continues on. And it seems like that strange sighting is just a one-off oddity.
44:43 Karen Kilgariff? But if that were the case, I wouldn't be telling you about it right now. This is the story of the Van Meter Visitor. So the main sources used today are articles from the Des Moines Register archives, a book by Chad Lewis, Noah Voss, and Kevin Lee Nelson about the topic, and a mini-documentary from Iowa PBS entitled spooky stories, Van Meter Visitor. And the rest of the sources are in our show notes. So I'll tell you a little bit about the town. Van Meter, Iowa is situated along the Raccoon River, 20 miles west of Des Moines. So it's technically a suburb. And to this day, it still has that small-town feel like it did in the early 1900s. But of course, the 1903 Van Meter is totally undeveloped. Yeah.
45:28 Karen Kilgariff? You saw that picture. Very remote. The I-80 has not been constructed, but trains do pass through the town. And that local train station that you saw is a major source of business and life in this small town. Van Meter is also an important Midwestern shipping stop for everything from lumber to farm goods to coal that's mined out of a local mine there in Van Meter. But by 1903, that mine went out of business, and it sits on the edge of town, a creepy and abandoned remnant that's in a state of disrepair. So Ulysses sees this strange sight at 1:00 a.m. on Tuesday, September 29. The rest of that day unfolds normally until late that afternoon when a thunderstorm
46:13 Karen Kilgariff? rolls in and the town's doctor, 25-year-old Fred Alcott.
46:17 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God.
46:18 Karen Kilgariff? Everyone's a baby in this story.
46:19 Georgia Hardstark? Middle-aged man.
46:20 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
46:20 Georgia Hardstark? Middle-aged 25-year-old.
46:21 Karen Kilgariff? Yep. He's like, he looks like Wilford Brimley, 25. So he's working a normal day, seeing patients all day long, and like many business owners in Van Meter, he keeps an apartment behind his office. So between the day's bad weather and the sun setting around 6:30 at that time of year, Dr. Alcott's not planning on going anywhere that night. It's too dark, it's too rainy, so he just goes home, goes to bed, and falls asleep. So sometime around 1:00 a.m., now it's Wednesday, September 30th, a bright light shines through Dr. Alcott's bedroom window, lighting up an otherwise pitch-black room. He's jolted awake, he jumps out of bed, he thinks someone's breaking into his office. So he reaches for his gun and he rushes outside.
47:05 Karen Kilgariff? But what Dr. Alcott finds, when he gets out into the street, is incomprehensible. Just steps away from him, there's an impossibly bright light shining from what looks like a horn on the forehead of a large creature with bat-like wings.
47:20 Georgia Hardstark? Okay. That wasn't where I was going. I was going leprechaun. I don't know why. Don't ask me why.
47:27 Karen Kilgariff? You just felt that.
47:28 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, but so we're talking about a winged horse? Unicorn-type creature?
47:32 Karen Kilgariff? Well, there is a horn.
47:34 Georgia Hardstark? Uh-huh.
47:35 Karen Kilgariff? And there are wings.
47:36 Georgia Hardstark? Uh-huh. Where did I get horse from?
47:38 Karen Kilgariff? Just you're a good writer. Terrified, Dr. Alcott lifts his gun and starts firing at this thing.
47:44 Georgia Hardstark? Just fire at it.
47:45 Karen Kilgariff? Just shoot it.
47:46 Georgia Hardstark? You've just gotta shoot a thing.
47:47 Karen Kilgariff? You saw, it was a time where they had just settled this area.
47:50 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
47:51 Karen Kilgariff? Shooting things was the solution to almost everything.
47:53 Georgia Hardstark? Well, has anything changed?
47:55 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, hello, America. The problem is, his bullets have no effect on the creature, so he runs back into his office, he locks the doors and windows, and he barricades himself inside until the sun rises. So just like the first time, word of Dr. Alcott's encounter spreads very quickly through Van Meter. It's like, it happened again. People running up and down the street. So because this has happened within a 24 hour period, people start getting very worried. And it's also from an equally dignified, well-respected member of town. But this time, he's not just claiming he saw a light, he's claiming he saw a monster. So as the sun goes down that night, the people of Van Meter are on edge. A clerk at the town bank named Peter Dunn, in his mid 20s, has an idea.
48:41 Karen Kilgariff? Everybody.
48:41 Georgia Hardstark? So young.
48:42 Karen Kilgariff? So Peter Dunn has an idea. In his mind, these lights and winged creatures feel like real people that are being misidentified by panicked witnesses or exhausted witnesses. And he's worried that they actually are criminals who are trying to target the bank and steal everybody's money. So he decides.
49:00 Georgia Hardstark? Mr. Make it about himself, Mr. Main character over here.
49:03 Karen Kilgariff? Exactly, right. He's like, oh, this is bank-related. It's me, the 23-year-old banker of town. So bravely, he decides to stand guard over the money all night long. And later on, Peter will go on to earn himself a very widely respected role in the town of Van Meter. He manages the bank. After that, he holds several city offices, including becoming the mayor. So he's of sound mind, he's not the type to lie. But what happens next sounds very far-fetched. So 1 a.m. on a cloudy Thursday, it's October 1st now, Peter claims he hears a weird noise coming from just outside the bank. He says it sounds like, quote, "someone strangling." It's like a weird choking. Choking strangling sound.
49:48 Karen Kilgariff? So he takes a shotgun, he races outside, right? The rule.
49:52 Georgia Hardstark? Have you seen? This is reminding me of this tweet, R.I.P., that says, "I'm sorry, but my friends and I would have smashed ET with a hammer."
50:03 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, yes.
50:05 Georgia Hardstark? We would not have taken him home and fed him. Like, and I was like, oh, shit, that's, we were feral. We would have done the same, we would have dissected him to be like, I wonder what it is? Let's beat it with a hammer.
50:14 Karen Kilgariff? We were a real kill-first, ask questions later generation.
50:18 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
50:19 Karen Kilgariff? It's really what America kind of is at its heart.
50:22 Georgia Hardstark? Poor little ET.
50:23 Karen Kilgariff? Poor ET.
50:24 Georgia Hardstark? Found the right guy, at least.
50:26 Karen Kilgariff? Really bad movies. Steven Spielberg would have been like, what are you doing? This movie is 32 minutes long. We're gonna get him. We're gonna have him land, get discovered, and the kids on that cul-de-sac circle up. Yeah. Okay, so Peter races to a nearby window to see what the hell this sound is, knowing that it could be the thing that everyone is worried about. And he goes and peers out into the darkness. But when he presses his face to the glass, an intense light immediately shines right into his eyes, and then it goes out. So we can safely assume Peter was dazzled by that light. Men are so hysterical. It's like, calm down, dude. Good. Stop crying. You've got your big gun. So he's like, whoa, what just happened?
51:11 Karen Kilgariff? He keeps looking out. He's trying to see if that light comes back on. But now he sees, as his vision kind of comes back, the light is bouncing around on the street in front of the bank. We can assume with spotty vision and feeling absolutely terrified, Peter tries to focus on the light as it's moving. He thinks he can see something under the light, but not very clearly. He ends up describing it simply as, quote, "a great form of some kind." Cool. So he panics. He raises his shotgun. He fires right through the bank's window, blowing out the glass. But the light vanishes, and once again, everything is dark. He stays inside that bank until sunrise. Now with a broken window, good job. You can get right in. It's called, here, just open it.
51:57 Karen Kilgariff? So when it's finally light, he goes and tells everybody what he saw. The area surrounding the bank is searched, and according to old reports, a set of, quote, "great three-toed tracks" are found nearby and captured in a plaster mold. Do you have the photo of it? It's like, I'm thinking duck. That mold has since been gone missing. Of course it has. There's no, I know. But yes, it's almost like a three-toed, a big bird. So yeah, like a dinosaur in Jurassic Park. Yeah, that's right. That's how we do it. Law and Order and Jurassic Park. Steven. Okay, so this is the third encounter in 48 hours and the town of Van Meter is now gripped in fear.
52:39 Karen Kilgariff? But the strangeness continues when the sun goes down that night. Once again, around 2:00 a.m. on Friday, October 2nd, 35-year-old Otto V. White, who is the oldest man in town, just kidding, who lives in an apartment above his Main Street hardware store, is now awakened by a, quote, "rasping" sound outside. He immediately grabs his gun. He opens a window.
53:04 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, good.
53:05 Karen Kilgariff? And he scans the street. He's waiting for his eyes to adjust to the darkness. I wonder if their vision was different because there was so little artificial light back then.
53:14 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, and then also, like, the dude in the bank, he's, I don't like him, I don't know why, but he, his vision would have been so fucked after having, you know, basically like a flashlight in your face, especially because he had never probably, hadn't been around electric light that long.
53:29 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
53:29 Georgia Hardstark? So, I don't trust, I don't know why. I don't like him.
53:32 Karen Kilgariff? You're, you don't like capitalists. Is that what it is?
53:35 Georgia Hardstark? Maybe. He seems like a pick-me guy. That's what I'm saying.
53:40 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, so he hears the rasping noise. This is Otto from the hardware store, hears a rasping noise, immediately grabs his gun, opens the window, scans the street. He's waiting for his eyes to adjust, and as they do, he sees something hanging off the nearest telephone pole about 15 feet away.
53:56 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, dear.
53:56 Karen Kilgariff? So dangerously close for my taste. But it's another kind of rainy, cloudy night. There's almost no moonlight. It's really too dark to be able to see any of the features of what this thing is. But Otto's already heard about the monster stalking Van Meter, so he thinks the best plan is to just shoot at whatever it is hanging off that telephone pole and ask questions later. He raises his gun, he pulls the trigger. But instead of this thing tumbling to the ground, or screeching, or anything, it's just silence. Until a moment later, when an incredibly bright light shines right in his face. Suddenly, he's overwhelmed by a horrible stench, and then it all gets a little foggy. And Otto cannot remember anything that happens after that. After the stench.
54:41 Karen Kilgariff? This is, this has Mothman vibes. Doesn't it? Yeah. Mm-hmm. That will come up later. So meanwhile, Otto's gunshot wakes up the man who lives diagonally across Main Street, 20-year-old shopkeeper Sidney Gregg, 20-year-old shopkeeper's children. He's been asleep in his street-level apartment that's attached to his store. So he runs into a shop, he swings the front door open, he looks out over Main Street, and he's looking around for the source of the gunshots. But what he's shocked to see is the entire street lit up like it was daytime. And then he sees the creature still clinging to the nearby telephone pole with a bright light coming from its head. And according to reports, Sidney says it's hanging by what look like talons or bird claws. Yuck.
55:26 Karen Kilgariff? Three of them. Three bird claws. Let me just go ahead and do this. Yeah. Pinch, like a pincher. Ooh. He ate with that light coming off his head. So Sidney is the witness who gets the best look at this creature of anyone in the story. And his description is more evocative of something like a pterodactyl versus like some flying humanoid creature. All right. Mm-hmm. He watches as it climbs down from the pole and stands upright, and he estimates this thing is eight feet tall. Oh, no. Yeah. It jumps a couple times, unfolds two massive featherless wings, all the while the light on its forehead sweeping back and forth like it's scanning the area. And then,
56:09 Karen Kilgariff? right on schedule, the overnight train barrels past Van Meter on the nearby tracks and spooks the creature. And from his shop's doorway, Sidney says he watches it bolt off, quote, "on all four feet." Wow. So he runs like a horse, like, remember you said in the beginning? But he looks like a bird. But he lands like a human and looks like a bird and then runs off on all four. Okay. So, when the word gets around the next day, this town goes into an all-out panic, of course. Where are the women to calm everyone down, for fuck's sake? Right? There weren't many in the pictures. It doesn't seem like it. It seems like a bunch of college grads went out and started Van Meter by themselves in a boys only club. Hysterical boys.
56:53 Karen Kilgariff? Then more information comes to light, talking about the old abandoned coal mine in Van Meter. It was built next to a brick and tile factory, and the brick and tile factory is still in business. So word spreads that workers at the brick and tile factory have been hearing weird sounds coming from the abandoned coal mine for a while. They just haven't really talked about it to anybody. Which also is an interesting kind of dynamic of like, the pressure of small town, like once you say, "Hey, we heard weird screeching," or whatever, it's like, "Oh, they're crazy at the tile factory," or whatever. Puffing tile glue, or whatever. Right, exactly. So, they haven't talked about it, so we don't really know how long they had been hearing those noises.
57:33 Karen Kilgariff? But the factory and the mine shaft sits about 500 feet away from each other, so relatively close. So as the sun sets that Friday evening, the residents of Van Meter are preparing for another night of terror, and sure enough, it comes. Around 1 a.m., 44-year-old, oh my god, a geriatric, ugh! 44-year-old J.L. Platt, the operations manager of the brick and tile factory, and his crew of overnight workers, start hearing those same weird noises coming from the mine shafts once again. But now, because they've all heard about these sightings and all the crazy stuff that's been happening, Platt finally decides he's gonna step out and investigate this noise.
58:14 Karen Kilgariff? There's a full moon that night, so he can see better than he would normally be able to. He walks towards the mine shaft, and as he approaches, he sees the outline of two creatures standing in the shaft entrance. He's got a buddy? He's got a buddy, a little buddy. One is noticeably larger than the other, both have those light horns on their heads. He watches as they raise their enormous reins and fly off into the dark. Goodbye. So this time, there's no waiting until sunrise. Platt, his workers, and other citizens of Van Meter immediately mobilize. Thinking that the mine is where these creatures live, a group of vigilantes armed with guns... Just start fucking shooting into it, or what, set it on fire, or what?
58:58 Karen Kilgariff? They surround the mine, and they wait until daybreak, because they're like, if they live here, they're coming back. Yeah. And sure enough, right at dawn, the monsters are seen flying back through the sky toward the mineshaft. What the fuck? So everybody starts shooting. Right? They unload everything they've got. And as they do, the two creatures let out bizarre, loud groans, and the air suddenly fills with that strange odor. But, like every other time that anyone's tried to shoot at these mysterious things, the bullets have no effect. Reportedly, the creatures land, and here's where I go. They push their way past the citizens, and they disappear down the mineshaft into the dark tunnel.
59:43 Karen Kilgariff? So they're like, "Out of our way, we're going back home." Yeah. And no one can do anything because it's like, you're not gonna fistfight them. Right. The duns don't work. They like, got that close, is surprising. Right. What happens next is also mysterious. What we do know is that the citizens of Van Meter blocked the entrance to that abandoned coal mine like boarded up forever. And after that, there are no more documented sightings of these strange creatures ever again. Over time, they become known as the Van Meter Visitor or Visitors. And the remnants of that old mine with its blocked-off entrance are still there in Van Meter, but they're now on private property. Has anyone gone in and searched for them? I mean, I'm sure, well, but here's the thing, I wonder, we'll theorize. Okay.
1:00:28 Karen Kilgariff? So there are a lot of theories about what this could have been, who or what the Van Meter Visitor actually was. The most plausible explanation being, it's a case of mass misidentification involving something like a vulture or a large owl, which is the same theory that kind of writes off the Mothman. Right. Which is interesting because the Mothman, they think it was a gigantic bird called a shoebill that was basically migrating and got like knocked off its migration path. The weirdest-looking fucking bird you've ever seen in your life. It is a wild-looking bird, so like- But if you saw it out in the wild, you'd fucking run. In, especially in like car lights on a very dark highway. I feel like darkness is a big part of all of these things that are like- Seems like it. It's nocturnal. They're nocturnal.
1:01:12 Karen Kilgariff? They're nocturnal creatures, except for that last experience, which is so heightened that it's like, truly, a whole town sat there and watched these things come and fly, and then they were like pushed out of the way. Like, "Ow!" Like they're at a fucking concert or something, like- They're pushing to the front. Okay, some write the whole thing off as a practical joke, but if that were true, then they'd know who was doing it because the one was eight feet tall. If they were average height, they'd have to be talented enough to bounce, fly, and climb telephone poles on stilts and in costume while carrying an incredibly bright lantern or an electric headlight that there's almost no way that could have. Yeah. Sears had an incredible catalog and it always. There's also the theory of mass delusion.
1:01:57 Karen Kilgariff? It ate. In Sears 8, there's the theory of mass delusion because throughout the 1800s and the early 1900s, newspapers were full of sensationalized reports of weird creatures. The Van Meter visitor story predates the 1909 Jersey Devil Panic, which is similar because it involves a flying dinosaur-esque creature, predates it by about seven years. And of course, it predates our beloved Mothman by 50 years, more than 50 years. But it's totally possible the people in Van Meter were reading about other strange creatures in the papers and getting those ideas. Because about a decade earlier, a pterodactyl-like monster known as the Tombstone Thunderbird was spotted in Arizona.
1:02:40 Karen Kilgariff? And that's the one that, I've heard about that, where it's like, it's a bird, but it is so gigantic. It's like a 50-foot wingspan. I've never heard of it. And I think there were stories of like, it carried off a child. Jesus. Like, it's so huge and a bunch of people saw it. So even if that story was a lie, but it's in the newspaper and then the story goes around, then it's like, we've got our own. Also, there's of course, the very plausible theory, the residents of Van Meter invented a monster story to drum up either publicity, draw visitors to the town. It's hard to imagine the most respected citizens of the town, like a doctor and a future mayor, would use their own good names to like, back up a hoax like that. Although, let's not put anything past the high-level people.
1:03:26 Karen Kilgariff? As we have learned these days, by most accounts, locals did not seize on the newspaper coverage to make more of it. They actually didn't seem to like it, so it's unclear who would have benefited by spreading a story like this. We can take a closer look at the man who wrote the articles about the Van Meter visitor. He's a journalist named Harry H. Phillips. And we can mull over whether or not he is a bad reporter or somehow involved in elaborate hoax, or just plain old telling the truth. The town of Van Meter, as I said, doesn't have its own newspaper in 1903, so the first reports of this event pop up in the Des Moines Daily paper on October 5th, a couple of days after that last reported sighting.
1:04:08 Karen Kilgariff? It's totally possible Harry H. Phillips was given bad information, or got kind of basic information and embellished the original details as he was working on the copy. I mean, we've done that for 10 years. That's what we do. You know, they're old timey version of clickbait, essentially. It's just like, can you believe what's happening out west where nothing's provable and there are no cameras? Again, though, I will say, Harry H. Phillips is an esteemed member of the community of Van Meter. He lives in Van Meter. He is the local postmaster, which I think takes an extra amount of honesty and trustworthiness. He's not one to embellish or lie. Yeah. Okay. He's off the hook. What is this thing's money, a money order? Yeah. Is that what it's called? No, I know what you're talking about.
1:04:53 Karen Kilgariff? I need to give you $300, but I don't want to have, give you cash, so I'll give you this thing from the bank? Yeah, a wire? I don't know.
1:05:00 Georgia Hardstark? Cashier's check?
1:05:01 Karen Kilgariff? A cashier's check, goddamn it. You know, I quit. Forget that, I'll just keep going. So, yeah, so people trust this man. And also, very important to mention, that there was a contest in Van Meter.
1:05:19 Karen Kilgariff? Or I don't know if it was a contest, but they had the handsome bachelors of Van Meter that they featured every year, and he was one of them. Here are the handsome bachelors
1:05:29 Georgia Hardstark? Hello, boys.
1:05:30 Karen Kilgariff? Of Van Meter. This was from 1901, and
1:05:34 Georgia Hardstark? I want the one that looks like he's just seen a ghost. This guy? Yeah.
1:05:37 Karen Kilgariff? Constant surprise. Oh, you mean young Harry Houdini, who somehow lived in Van Meter, Iowa?
1:05:42 Georgia Hardstark? You guys go to our Instagram if you want to see this photo. The front row mustaches are fucking given.
1:05:48 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:05:48 Georgia Hardstark? Are they, you know?
1:05:49 Karen Kilgariff? Is it like, these are the most esteemed citizens because they have the biggest mustaches, and it goes up to the youngsters?
1:05:55 Georgia Hardstark? You can't just willy-nilly grow a mustache.
1:05:58 Karen Kilgariff? I think if I had to pick one?
1:06:00 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:06:00 Karen Kilgariff? How about that lone wolf over on the left?
1:06:03 Georgia Hardstark? I like the one below him with the mustache.
1:06:05 Karen Kilgariff? That's kind of a daddy issue pick.
1:06:07 Georgia Hardstark? He's giving zaddy.
1:06:08 Karen Kilgariff? He's giving zaddy.
1:06:09 Georgia Hardstark? Totally a daddy issue.
1:06:10 Karen Kilgariff? Old fashioned zaddy. My guy has a hair sticking up, just like I always do.
1:06:14 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, yeah.
1:06:15 Karen Kilgariff? Hey.
1:06:15 Georgia Hardstark? He looks the most like modern, I'd say.
1:06:18 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, he does. That's the time traveler.
1:06:19 Georgia Hardstark? He looks like a modern man.
1:06:20 Karen Kilgariff? That's why he's a little bit apart, because he slipped in on the side like, hey, I'm from 1974.
1:06:24 Georgia Hardstark? He's disappearing right before our eyes. Wait, why?
1:06:28 Karen Kilgariff? His one hand is going away. So Harry is on the left in the middle row, so this guy?
1:06:33 Georgia Hardstark? He's a little thicker. He's a little thicker around the face.
1:06:35 Karen Kilgariff? You know, now that you point, now that I point him out and blame it on you, I think he might be my pick.
1:06:41 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
1:06:42 Karen Kilgariff? No more time travelers. Our boyfriends are friends.
1:06:44 Georgia Hardstark? Hey, you can have both.
1:06:45 Karen Kilgariff? What?
1:06:46 Georgia Hardstark? Don't have to pick. Fucking monogamy is out in the 1903's.
1:06:50 Karen Kilgariff? Imagine. That'd be even more revolutionary than this monster with a light on its head. So he's handsome. Of course, he's not lying. Again, there's no obvious reason for him to make up the story unless it is a ruse to get more subscribers.
1:07:06 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:07:06 Karen Kilgariff? Which I think is what yellow journalism was kind of all about back then.
1:07:10 Georgia Hardstark? Sure. I mean, that makes sense.
1:07:11 Karen Kilgariff? So what we really need for the Van Meter visitor or visitors, mystery to be solved, is to find that old plaster cast of the monster's footprint.
1:07:19 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:07:20 Karen Kilgariff? Or maybe discover some lost diary of someone's great-great-grandmother in an attic.
1:07:25 Georgia Hardstark? Yes, I was there in an attic.
1:07:27 Karen Kilgariff? In an attic.
1:07:27 Georgia Hardstark? In some fucking Ex sheriff's grandma's fuck what I don't know.
1:07:32 Karen Kilgariff? Please, or like, I like to then even more kind of thrilling to me is it's at the bottom of a pile in a hoarder house.
1:07:39 Georgia Hardstark? Ooh.
1:07:40 Karen Kilgariff? Where people are like, I just can't deal with it.
1:07:42 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:07:42 Karen Kilgariff? But there it is.
1:07:43 Georgia Hardstark? We have to wait till grandma dies before we clean up or she's gonna freak the fuck out.
1:07:46 Karen Kilgariff? That's right. But there it is, just sitting there, proof.
1:07:49 Georgia Hardstark? That was my dad's, yeah.
1:07:51 Karen Kilgariff? He told me not to say anything and then I started hoarding to cover up the secret in my mind. People don't talk like that in Iowa.
1:08:02 Georgia Hardstark? Don't they? Maybe they do.
1:08:05 Karen Kilgariff? Everyone becomes an old prospector.
1:08:07 Georgia Hardstark? Immediately.
1:08:09 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, it's like the Bigfoot bed confession where it's like, hey, look, it's all a prank. Like, that would be great. But until that happens, we just can't know what happened in Van Meter in the fall of 1903. Everyone in our story, of course, has long since passed.
1:08:23 Georgia Hardstark? No, they just.
1:08:24 Karen Kilgariff? Except for Harry. Except for that guy who, it's crazy, he's 212.
1:08:28 Georgia Hardstark? He hasn't aged a day.
1:08:32 Karen Kilgariff? I say he's 212. I know for a fact how many years it's been since.
1:08:36 Georgia Hardstark? How many?
1:08:38 Georgia Hardstark? But how old is he then? So he's 100 and whatever. We don't math here at my favorite murder.
1:08:43 Karen Kilgariff? It doesn't matter and we loved a riff.
1:08:45 Georgia Hardstark? Use your calculator.
1:08:46 Karen Kilgariff? I can't, I don't know how.
1:08:48 Georgia Hardstark? We're just a few. The meme of like, my husband can, I don't want him to look at my camera, not because I want, I'm cheating on him, but because, and then it pulls up a calculator and it's like nine minus three.
1:09:00 Karen Kilgariff? The most basic math. Oh, so good. I think we should start doing our favorite TikTok of the week to, and show each other. All week long, we're like, find the thing that you love the most, whether it's funny, touching, and cool new thing.
1:09:14 Georgia Hardstark? And then we'll learn the dance.
1:09:16 Karen Kilgariff? And then we do the dance.
1:09:17 Georgia Hardstark? And you'll do the dance, you have to do the dance, though.
1:09:19 Karen Kilgariff? And then we do like.
1:09:20 Georgia Hardstark? You know the couples ones where it's like they.
1:09:22 Karen Kilgariff? Yep.
1:09:23 Georgia Hardstark? Or whatever.
1:09:23 Karen Kilgariff? I'll flip you over.
1:09:24 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:09:25 Karen Kilgariff? And then we end in a two man pyramid.
1:09:26 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:09:27 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, I'll do it.
1:09:28 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
1:09:28 Karen Kilgariff? So, here's the good news, we're just a couple of years shy of the 125th anniversary of the Van Meter Visitor Event. And more good news, Van Meter has since embraced their historical cryptozoological mystery. They have a yearly Van Meter Visitor Festival.
1:09:46 Georgia Hardstark? Fuck, yes.
1:09:47 Karen Kilgariff? And this year, it's on September 26th.
1:09:49 Georgia Hardstark? We're there.
1:09:49 Karen Kilgariff? We'll see you there. That's the story of the Van Meter Visitor.
1:09:54 Georgia Hardstark? Good. Good one. I have never heard of that guy.
1:09:57 Karen Kilgariff? I know. It's a-
1:09:58 Georgia Hardstark? I love a cryptozoology, fucking-
1:10:01 Karen Kilgariff? And also, one that's like, what if there were dinosaurs?
1:10:05 Georgia Hardstark? But what if there is?
1:10:07 Karen Kilgariff? But what if there are dinosaurs that had lights on their head, like those fish-
1:10:10 Georgia Hardstark? Like those fish? I was totally-
1:10:11 Karen Kilgariff? Right?
1:10:12 Georgia Hardstark? Has there ever-
1:10:13 Karen Kilgariff? It's not impossible.
1:10:14 Georgia Hardstark? Animal doctors. Has there ever been an animal? I'm sure there's been insects, but has there ever been an animal that has had a light source-
1:10:22 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:10:23 Georgia Hardstark? -on its head? Please let us know.
1:10:24 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:10:25 Georgia Hardstark? We didn't go to college.
1:10:26 Karen Kilgariff? We don't know anything-
1:10:27 Georgia Hardstark? We're not animal doctors.
1:10:28 Karen Kilgariff? Be here and help us solve this Van Meter mystery. As a doctor, I'll tell you my theory. Because you know, this is my theory, or this is what I've read and then absolutely believed about the Loch Ness Monster. Is these prehistoric creatures that are in underground caverns-
1:10:44 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:10:45 Karen Kilgariff? -and lakes, and all the things we don't know are down there.
1:10:48 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, deep, dark, and mysterious.
1:10:49 Karen Kilgariff? And then they evolve down there.
1:10:51 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:10:52 Karen Kilgariff? And then you start blowing up their ecosystem-
1:10:55 Georgia Hardstark? Sure.
1:10:55 Karen Kilgariff? -and they come to the surface and look around and go, "Jeez, jeez."
1:11:00 Georgia Hardstark? We're the intruders.
1:11:02 Karen Kilgariff? We need to reduce our carbon footprint-
1:11:04 Georgia Hardstark? It's their land, and we're intruding.
1:11:05 Karen Kilgariff? In this center of the earth. Well, wait, let me see if there's any other pictures that I would regret-
1:11:12 Georgia Hardstark? Is there one like a drawing of what it would look like? Is that, okay. Oh.
1:11:16 Karen Kilgariff? Well, there it is.
1:11:17 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, it looks like a dragon.
1:11:18 Karen Kilgariff? Van Meter, hot under the collar. So basically, it's like the report on like, here's what they think happened, now everybody thinks they're crazy.
1:11:24 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:11:25 Karen Kilgariff? Which is why people don't come forward, as we know.
1:11:27 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
1:11:28 Karen Kilgariff? So-
1:11:29 Georgia Hardstark? Is there a cryptozoology guy in your town? Tell us, at myfavoritemurder@gmail for minisodes.
1:11:34 Karen Kilgariff? And also, any of the stuff that I just talked about that is incorrect. I, when I first moved to LA in 1994, there's a group of guys, Mark Feit, Toby Huss, Jim Turner, and they were called the Iowa Boys. They all did comedy. And I love Iowa because of those three boys.
1:11:52 Georgia Hardstark? They represented it well.
1:11:54 Karen Kilgariff? They're just truly salt of the earth, good guys, great drinkers.
1:11:57 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:11:58 Karen Kilgariff? Funny as fucking hell.
1:12:00 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:12:00 Karen Kilgariff? And so I respect the people of Iowa. If I said anything wrong, please let me know and I will correct it. Those are the last people I want to disprove.
1:12:09 Georgia Hardstark? Sure. Yeah, totally.
1:12:11 Karen Kilgariff? Right?
1:12:12 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Is that it?
1:12:13 Karen Kilgariff? I think we have to stop.
1:12:14 Georgia Hardstark? We must stop.
1:12:15 Karen Kilgariff? That's plenty.
1:12:16 Georgia Hardstark? Some fucking point.
1:12:17 Karen Kilgariff? We're gonna really soon. Don't worry.
1:12:20 Georgia Hardstark? Really gotta stop.
1:12:21 Karen Kilgariff? Really soon. We're gonna.
1:12:34 Karen Kilgariff? All right, here we go.
1:12:37 Karen Kilgariff? Hey, everybody. We're in the car doing a live action moving, driving, honking hurrah. That's right. Presented by Hyundai. Driven by Georgia Harsh. Oh shit, should I go for it? Oh shit, she's running. Oh, no, I'm not. That was very yellow. That was very yellow.
1:12:54 Karen Kilgariff? They're gonna take it away from me. This is the perfect. Yep, let's definitely do that. Okay, here's the first one is from Cass and it's via Instagram DM. And it says, "Hey, queens, my hurrah is that after a year of sickness and injury and mostly being stuck inside, I remembered who I am this month. I completed a four-week Pilates challenge, went to a bunch of gigs, and remembered I have a personality and free will, so I got a new tattoo. I'm stronger, happier, saw Noel Gallagher play Master Plan Live, and I'm feeling like myself again, which is better than any drug I've been prescribed this year." And then it says, "Stay sexy and pulse this one out, Cass." Hell, yeah. Nice one, Cass. Tattoos solve any heartbreak.
1:13:37 Karen Kilgariff? That's such a nice build of like, she was down. Yeah. Like, didn't know what to do. And then slowly but surely, like, I did something for my muscles. I did something for my ears. I went to... For my ears. Seeing Noel Gallagher, you're all set. I can remember who I am. I love that. I know. Good job, Cass. We're behind you. Here's the second one, and it's a short one. It says, "My hooray is a huge, personal one. After eight years of referrals and waiting, I finally have a date for top surgery. It's finally time to yeet my teats." And then it just says, "Alex, they/them." Amazing. Alex, congratulations. Alex, you've done it. It's good that you're a patient.
1:14:20 Karen Kilgariff? It's good that you got to do the thing that you wanted to do. And sorry that this nation has turned the way it has. We support you. We support you entirely. Okay, here's one. It's from an email. It says, "Hooray for sisters." And it starts, "I'm so happy hoorays are back. First, it was a dream to see you in Denver with my favorite and only sister. Now, to the hooray. Let me preface with the fact that my little sister is my everything. Four years ago, her abusive cheating husband left after running her into foreclosure and bankruptcy." That was not on me. Also, I'm not laughing at either of those things. That was a weird three-way stuff that Georgia had to manage. "A few months later, she was diagnosed with breast cancer. As a single mom and self-employed woman,
1:15:03 Karen Kilgariff? a double mastectomy and the recovery was brutal. She lost all of her retirement, her savings, her home, and her beautiful boobs. Now, she has a growing business, a gorgeous daughter, a supportive, caring partner, and me. She always has me, and my hooray is we have each other and she is here. A cancer-free, strong woman. I love her, and I couldn't be happier to have a best friend like her. Krista, you're my hooray. Thanks for all the laughter, Karen and Georgia. Don't forget to get the girls checked. Kira in Colorado." Amazing. That's a really amazing one. Love the message. It hurts, but you gotta get 'em checked. Okay, this honking hooray is about someone we all know and love. The email is entitled, "Paul Giamatti."
1:15:47 Karen Kilgariff? And it says, "Are we still doing hoorays? If so, I've got the tiniest little things some of your fans might like. I'd just like to shout out MFM royalty, Mr. Paul Giamatti."
1:15:58 Karen Kilgariff? Does he know he's MFM royalty?
1:15:59 Georgia Hardstark? No.
1:16:00 Karen Kilgariff? But he's like, mhm.
1:16:01 Georgia Hardstark? I hope not.
1:16:02 Karen Kilgariff? For making my day by giving a lengthy quote about how Star Trek: Deep Space Nine is his favorite of the series, I don't think I'm alone in taking a bit of joy hearing about super talented and charming folks who also share your particular flavor of nerd. There's been plenty of times when my tastes have overlapped with you all during the years, too. Anyway, hooray for Paul Giamatti again. And May 2026 be a year we listen to our elders like George Takei. Thanks for everything, Lindsay.
1:16:29 Georgia Hardstark? Ah, but what about next generation?
1:16:32 Karen Kilgariff? I mean.
1:16:33 Georgia Hardstark? Everyone knows.
1:16:33 Karen Kilgariff? There's so many choices in the Star Trek community.
1:16:37 Georgia Hardstark? Good job, everyone.
1:16:38 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, we really harayed it up.
1:16:39 Georgia Hardstark? We sure did. And thank you to Hyundai for giving us the opportunity to drive around and read "Hoorays."
1:16:45 Karen Kilgariff? We really appreciate you, Hyundai, and stay sexy.
1:16:48 Georgia Hardstark? And don't get murdered.
1:16:50 Karen Kilgariff? Ambulance. Bye.
1:16:52 Georgia Hardstark? They'll call an ambulance when they hear it.
1:16:55 Speaker 04 Elvis, do you want a cookie?
1:17:03 Georgia Hardstark? This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producer is Molly Smith, and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes. Our editor is Aristotle Lasevato. This episode was mixed by Leona Scolacci. Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ally Elkin. Email your hometowns to [email protected] . And follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder. Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix. And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the "Remind Me" buttons. That's the best way you can support our show. Goodbye.
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