How to Charge 3x Without Losing Clients. Hormozi Hotline | Ep 917

Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast, you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned and will learn on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth. Wanna scale your business? ⁠⁠⁠Click here.⁠⁠⁠ Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials: ⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn ⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠YouTube ⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠Acquisition ⁠

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Hormozi?

  We're gonna do more mosey, her mosey hotline. And we're gonna come in, we're gonna hot. What if AI kills us all? You won't know, because you'll be dead.

• 0:13Alex Hormozi?

  And if it kills everyone, then all status games are over. And as soon as it's human against machine, we all lose. And until then, it's gonna be humans using machines against humans using machines, which is what it's been since the dawn of time, except swap machines for tech, but you get the idea. I would love to know how to be a giver and not a taker. Super easy, bro. You just give and don't ask for anything back, and you give to people. And then when they ask you if they could do something, then at that point, you're taking.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  Hey, Alex, how you doing?

• 0:40Alex Hormozi?

  What's up, man? All right, talk to me.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, dude, this is, uh, Sonya. This is Dr. Sonya Dzerich, man, I'm a chiropractor. Been two years in so far, seven years as a total chiropractor.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  And yeah, man, I'm just trying to figure out, like, okay, when I build momentum this year, and it's like, okay, how do I know when to keep going for more? How do I know when to just keep the momentum that I'm at? Not overstretch, because I made a mistake earlier this year, and I'm just writing the loans ever since.

• 1:09Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  Like, when do you?

• 1:10Alex Hormozi?

  What was the mistake?

• 1:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. I started diving into mentors, sales coaching, uh, marketing on Facebook. I'm just getting in all these expenses, just trying to grow from the revenue I got.

• 1:22Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. Well, first off, I'll say this. If you pay one-time expenses in order for you to learn, I wouldn't see those as losses, unless you learn nothing. If you learn things that are just, you need to put into place in the business, and they haven't fully come to fruition yet, I just see that as an investment. So I just wouldn't frame it that way, like, thing one.

• 1:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:39Alex Hormozi?

  Second thing, are you at full capacity at your existing location?

• 1:43Speaker 01

  Uh, no, I was at, I mean, I'm not, no.

• 1:46Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, got it. So, do you know how to advertise to get leads?

• 1:52Speaker 01

  I've had some help from other marketing companies.

• 1:56Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, I think it's worth you learning for yourself if you want to like if you want to be in this because like the transition that you have to make right now and this is a bit of a decision for you which is like do I want to be an artist or do I want to be a businessman and there's nothing wrong with either of those but you have to make a choice.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:13Alex Hormozi?

  It's let me give you let me give you a totally different example but it'll illustrate the point. So let's say that you're really good at making leather wallets, alright, and let's say you're a craftsman. And so you make these leather wallets, people start wanting them, you keep making more leather wallets. There's two success paths. Success path one is like you just love making wallets but you have more demand than you have time and so you keep doing a good job and people keep wanting them and so you can only make 10 wallets a day or whatever your math is and then all you do is you keep raising the price because you have more demand than you can than you can handle. Keep raising the price and that is to me the path of the technician is the path of the artist. The other path and there's nothing wrong with that and you can make a ton of money doing that. The other path is the path of businessman. He says, okay, you know, I have these leather

• 2:57Alex Hormozi?

  leather wallets, I can hire other people to make these wallets for me. I'm going to train them up or I can build machines that can do this with automation. I'm going to build a manufacturing line. They can make these wallets even better than I could at, you know, a faster rate. And I can do it because I'm buying in bulk, I can buy, you know, materials for half the price. And then all of a sudden he becomes a businessman, right? But all of a sudden you're like, wait, I was a wallet guy, why do I have to learn manufacturing and supply and all this other stuff? It's like, well, it's because it's a different game. And so I think for you as a chiropractor, you have to make the call, do I want to be a businessman or do I want to be a chiropractor? Do I want to be a technician or do I want to be in the game?

• 3:36Speaker 01

  I think I've been, I went from being the artist to let me switch to businessman. And then I'm like learning the hard way and I'm like, I think I want to go back to being an artist.

• 3:46Alex Hormozi?

  The hard way is the only way.

• 3:49Alex Hormozi?

  Dude, it's the only way. How long did it take you to learn to be a chiropractor?

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Seven and a half years.

• 3:53Alex Hormozi?

  Right. And business isn't any different. If anything, there's more stuff.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  True. I'm only two years in, so I'm waiting for that third year to five.

• 4:01Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, I promise you, I'll promise you this, and I hope we have a great callback. So I'll see if we could put a note, a note on this. I promise you that when you're five years in, if you keep at it, that's the big caveat, if you keep at it, you'll grow. If that's what you want. If you keep at it.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:17Alex Hormozi?

  All the money I had from all my gyms went to zero after five years. So like, the only thing is the outcome of this is your skills. That's all. And you're used to investing in education. So I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

• 4:29Alex Hormozi?

  But with regards to like, all we have to do for your business, though, like, like, let me zoom all the way out for like, how do you make this thing successful? The, the end state of what this looks like for you is that you nail your individual model with a way to have very sticky customers, option one. Or option two, you find a way to charge as much as is humanly possible. I've really rarely seen chiropractors who succeed in any other way. They either have a very, very good recurring model that people don't stop. Or they charge $500,000 for more specialized, you know, neuropathy, blah, blah, blah, you know, that kind of stuff. And they sub specialize in the things that people are willing to pay a ton of money for. And they sell, you know, year-long service packages with supplements and things like that.

• 5:13Alex Hormozi?

  So those are the, it's like either ultra-high ticket, or you build something that has really high stick. Once you nail that model, then, like, I'm telling you the skills that you're gonna have to learn. That's thing one. Thing two is, in, in learning that, you'll have to learn how to generate leads and sell them, right? After you've done that part, then you're gonna have to learn the game of attracting talent, and you'll probably have to give up, call it 10% ish, maybe 20, of the single location to get another chiropractor in there who's motivated enough to continue to work as hard as you will to make sure that the service quality is high. And then at that point, you'll ascend into the M and A game, which is either, and I would recommend, given the nature of the business that you're in, I would probably go via the M and A route rather than build. So I'd rather just buy, just find,

• 5:55Alex Hormozi?

  it's so easy to find chiropractors that are, you know, that will sell their businesses for basically zero. That it's easier to just retrofit them. And then that would be once you're in the game game. But that might take five to seven years. And that's okay. I'm being real.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  There's a joke. There's a joke you made, once you go to another school, you get paid the big bucks. Like, what, 10 years later? So I'm like, what, 2 years away from that, 3 years?

• 6:18Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, you make the big bucks a decade later, yeah.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  I'll stay in the game, I'll do my best.

• 6:22Alex Hormozi?

  Alright, appreciate you, man. Thanks for calling in. Tell me the one thing that you want me to help you with your business, right now.

• 6:33Alex Hormozi?

  Alright, talk to me, man.

• 6:36Speaker 02

  Alright, so I have a school community where I help fishing guides grow their business. And I have a question about cold outreach metrics.

• 6:46Alex Hormozi?

  Sweet, you help fishing guides grow their business?

• 6:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 6:51Alex Hormozi?

  Dude, that is a niche. Alright, let's rock this. Alright, so... Okay, and you help them with outreach, or you're doing outreach?

• 6:58Speaker 02

  I'm doing outreach, and I have questions about my metrics.

• 7:02Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, go for it. So what are you, what are you doing outreach on?

• 7:05Speaker 02

  So, I use Google to manually find 700 fishing guides' phone numbers. And my money model is essentially to give away all the information for free as a decoy offer, and then upsell them into a one-on-one coaching tier.

• 7:20Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  So, I, I sent them a message asking if they want a free step-by-step guide to learn how to get more bookings. About 8% of them said, "Sure, send it over."

• 7:31Alex Hormozi?

  Amazing.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  Then I send them a link to my about page, which, which converts at about 15% for that free decoy offer. And then, I was able to get a couple people to pay for one-on-one coaching, which got me to about $1,000 a month, but my goal is to get to $10,000 a month. So, my question for you, should be, I be more focused on improving the metrics, since fishing guides is such a small niche, or I just need to be doing more?

• 7:58Alex Hormozi?

  Pun intended. I need a couple quick stats that I, I want to get from you. So, how much does the average fishing guide make?

• 8:07Speaker 02

  The average fishing guide makes probably about 30 to 50 grand a year in profit.

• 8:13Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, okay, got it. So 30K to 50K. Okay, how many actual fishing guides are there in, I guess, I mean, shoot, is it mostly the US that you work with?

• 8:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's, from what I can find, there's about 10,000.

• 8:29Alex Hormozi?

  10,000, okay. Okay, how much money can you help them make?

• 8:35Speaker 02

  I've already helped other people do it. I can usually get them to about 5K per month in revenue, about 3K a month profit after about the first three months.

• 8:47Alex Hormozi?

  But aren't they already doing that? If they're making 30 to 50K profit starting?

• 8:52Speaker 02

  Um, well, when I, I mean, they are already a fishing guide and then I'm coming in and helping them scale their business. So it's not from like literally zero revenue.

• 9:01Alex Hormozi?

  So let me ask this differently. They're currently making $30,000 a year take home. You can help them add another 30 to 50. Does that sound correct or is that too much? AO free AO. Hello? Hello? I think, I think he cut bait. I think, I think, I think the line snapped.

• 9:21Speaker 02

  Alright, is it working?

• 9:22Alex Hormozi?

  There we go. Reeled him back in.

• 9:27Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. So they're making $30,000. How much money do you help them make more than they're current, they're currently making? $3,000 a month?

• 9:35Speaker 02

  So more than they're currently making, I can usually add about an extra $2,000 on top of what they're, I, I guess the part I forgot to mention is I target underperforming fishing guides.

• 9:46Alex Hormozi?

  Man.

• 9:48Alex Hormozi?

  I mean,

• 9:50Alex Hormozi?

  you just gotta get 10 people to pay you like 500 bucks, a thousand bucks a month, right? That's what you want?

• 9:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, high ticket.

• 9:58Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, I'll, I'll say this. Don't tell yourself that's high ticket.

• 10:03Alex Hormozi?

  Alright, because it's not. It's not high ticket. It's medium-ish. But the point is this, so there's 10,000, if your goal is to get to a hundred thousand dollars a year or 10 grand a month, you can absolutely do it within this vehicle. If you, so you found 700 of them, you think there's 10,000 of these fishing guides?

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've already reached out to 700. I still have a fresh list with like 900 people who I haven't reached out to yet.

• 10:28Alex Hormozi?

  How many times are you reaching out?

• 10:30Speaker 02

  To that list of 700, I hit them up probably like, including follow-ups, probably three or four different times. It's pretty much, I've milked them for about all they're worth now.

• 10:40Alex Hormozi?

  Well, you mean you've done three or four reach outs in total to the list? Or each of those reach outs was like a multi-step attempt?

• 10:48Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:49Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so I'll tell you what I don't like, I'll tell you what I do like. I do think that the goal of getting to $10,000 a month in this niche is super doable. I don't think you should reach out to the people who are underperforming. I think you should probably reach out to people who are performing well and maybe learn from them so that you can provide more value. So it's like you have a small amount of people who don't make a lot of money and you add a kind, you got, you add a little bit of money to their business, right? So if we can, like, I'd want one of these three things to change. It's like, I would like to have a lot of people that I get a little bit of value. I would like to have a small amount of people that I get a lot of value to. Right now, you're kind of like, and also, all those people don't have money to start with. So it's like, we have three things kind of working against us. We have to fix one of these. So you can't fix there being more fishing guides.

• 11:34Alex Hormozi?

  You can't do that. So you're really just stuck with, I can target people who have more money, or I can make them more money. Which of them is more, more feasible for you?

• 11:44Speaker 02

  My big piece of proof that I have, which is, I guess, it might be a limiting belief on why I don't want to swing out of my weight class, but I am a fishing guide. I've been running my own fishing charter business for like the last five years, and I'm at about $5,000 a month in profit. So it feels, it feels a little weird to go too far above what I've actually done.

• 12:03Alex Hormozi?

  I don't want to tell you to stop doing the business you're doing. I do think that like, is there, like, what stops you from doing, going from five to like 20?

• 12:11Speaker 02

  In my fishing charter business, you mean?

• 12:13Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 12:15Speaker 02

  It's gonna sound like a, like a bad answer, I know, but I have all the work that I want to be able to handle with that business. Like, I'm, I'm gonna get burned out if I push myself harder.

• 12:25Alex Hormozi?

  So, I've got a, I've got a wild idea. What if, I mean, you know how to generate demand, right? Because I'm guessing that's how you got this business? What if you charged more?

• 12:36Speaker 02

  It would have to be pretty significantly more.

• 12:38Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, like, a double.

• 12:40Speaker 02

  My first fear would be that it would be productized. Like, people would compare prices because there's a lot of other fishing guides around in my area, too.

• 12:49Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. So what's the first chapter in offers? Do you know?

• 12:56Speaker 02

  I've read it about three times, I should know, but I don't know.

• 12:58Alex Hormozi?

  I'll tell you, the first chapter is you're selling a commodity.

• 13:03Alex Hormozi?

  And so when you sell a commodity, you compute on price. When you sell a grant some offer, you compute on value. And so to become separate from everybody else in your space, which I think is worth you learning, because if you're going to, if you're going to help these guys with their businesses, they're all commoditized as well. So you have to help them out of this commoditized struggle. Otherwise, fundamentally, you're just going to help them get to a business that you're currently burned out on. That doesn't feel good, right? So I kind of want you to fix your business, which I think if you do, you will make more money in the short term and long term.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 13:37Alex Hormozi?

  Which is not the answer that you expected. Like, the simple answer for your current thing, like, in terms of degrees of advice, the easiest thing to do would be like, go find more leads, reach out to more of them, and make sure that you're keeping the people you got. You can charge a thousand bucks a month. Okay, fine. That's like the short-term advice. But the kind of like medium to long-term advice is, we have to figure out a way for you to either target ones that make more money, or help the ones that come in to make more money. The only way to do that long-term is to actually like, make more money with your own thing, or help the people that you already have far surpass your existing numbers. Can they pass your numbers? Could you help them if they wanted to?

• 14:18Speaker 02

  Could they pass my revenue numbers, you mean?

• 14:20Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, or take them, yeah.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, for sure.

• 14:24Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, well, then why don't you go help people do that? And then you'll be able to charge more.

• 14:29Speaker 02

  I see, okay. So help fishing guides surpass my numbers.

• 14:32Alex Hormozi?

  I hope they all beat you. Yeah. And if you don't want to go back into the fishing business, fine. You can experiment with the customers you have with a newer, better offer. But you have to be able to sell around a commoditized pricing structure. Otherwise, so, let me say this differently, because I think, like, I want this to really hit for you, and obviously I'm talking to a zillion other people who are listening in. If you sell a commodity, you will be priced at the point of burnout. The marketplace is ruthlessly efficient at getting people to just make enough to survive and not make enough to thrive. Because that's the place where people will stay and provide a commoditized good.

• 15:11Alex Hormozi?

  So you have to break out of that, otherwise the market will force you. Capitalism is very efficient. The market will force you to give as much as you can for as little as possible until eventually you can't give anymore for any less. You remember that chapter in the book? And then there's nothing left. You are in that boat right now. Man, in that boat. I'm even trying on that one. So we have to decommoditize the offering that either you or the fishing guides you're teaching are making so that they can charge twice as much, three times as much. What else can a fishing guide provide that other people don't provide to make the whole experience better? Can we bundle multiple things in? Can we sell multiple sessions? Can we bring food on there? Can we grill the fish with them and bring a chef so they get the full like, I grilled

• 15:56Alex Hormozi?

  it on the side of the boat, threw some lemon on it. I've never had fish better in my life because it's right out of the water. Right? Like, can we create an experience around this that's more than just like, I'll take you out and you'll catch a fish or you won't?

• 16:07Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, there's definitely ways to add a lot of extras on.

• 16:12Alex Hormozi?

  Awesome. And fish and people who buy fishing typically, many of them have a lot of money. So like, give them the opportunity to spend it with you.

• 16:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, that totally makes sense. And it's kind of a double whammy because it helps with the main fishing charter business and with the school community to be able to show other people how I did it. So yeah, it's perfect.

• 16:31Alex Hormozi?

  Let's do that. Do you feel better?

• 16:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:37Alex Hormozi?

  So this, this solves the core issue. Go fix your business, make a grand slam offer, charge significantly more so that you can make more, so that you have the confidence to then show the guys that you help make way more. If they make way more, guess what you get to do? Charge more. And you'll be able to start attracting the people who aren't just, you know, bottom scrapers. They're the ones who are actually doing okay, but want to do great. Those are the ones who pay big dollars. People who are on their last line, they don't have much. Last line, Jesus. I like, I'm unstoppable today. Does that make sense?

• 17:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I get it.

• 17:12Alex Hormozi?

  All right. Rocket, well, appreciate you, man.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, thanks.

• 17:15Alex Hormozi?

  All right, have a good one.