The Mother of Science Fiction: Inventing Frankenstein

This week NPAD is on vacation, but as a special treat, we wanted to share an episode of our other podcast, Watch Her Cook, with you. This episode has a few surprising NPAD tie ins, and we are so excited to share it with you all. We will be back to our regularly scheduled National Parks programing next week! - Cassie and Danielle What began as a vivid dream on a stormy night during the “Year Without a Summer,” after a round of German ghost stories by the fire, would go on to spark the birth of science fiction. In this episode, we will explore Mary Shelley’s journey from her childhood to becoming the author of Frankenstein, and how her imagination–and pain–brought a creature to life that still resonates with us so deeply today. Listen to Watch Her Cook on Apple and Spotify! Follow us on InstagramFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at: Instagram: @nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @nationalparkafterdark Support the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:27Speaker 01

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• 1:17Danielle LaRock?

  Hello, everyone. Surprise. It's our week off, but we're still here.

• 1:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Surprise, surprise. No sleep for the wicked. Is that the saying?

• 1:27Danielle LaRock?

  Or no rest.

• 1:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  No rest for the wicked.

• 1:30Danielle LaRock?

  Ain't no rest for the wicked. We took the week off. I think we announced it on the last podcast, but we're here just to remind you that we took the week off, but also because if you're missing us, we have a lot of, we have a lot of options for you. Yeah. So, I was just kind of scrolling through. So, I don't know if we announced it on the last episode or not, but we are just getting back from a massive trip. I mean, Cassie's been gone for a month. I've been gone for three weeks. We have been all over the place internationally for you. Both of us have been, we just went to Glacier. We did a bunch of Colorado parks with a National Park After Dark group trip. We've been here,

• 2:11Danielle LaRock?

  there, and everywhere. So, we're trying to recoup. But if you're missing an episode this week and you're like, God, I just really wish I had Cassie and Danielle in my life, we have options for you. And I was just kind of going through. Some suggestions of episodes because we get so many emails all the time of like, have you covered this? You should cover this. And they're great suggestions, but a lot of the times we've already done them. So I was just scrolling back in our catalog, being like, okay, what are some maybe summer themed ones or ones that are our favorites? And of course, at first, we were just in Glacier. So it's like, what have we done in Glacier? For an episode for National Park After Dark. And of course, Night of the Grizzlies,

• 2:55Danielle LaRock?

  the two parter that you did massively popular. Those are episodes 17 and 18. So if you haven't been scarred yet, you can go over there and listen.

• 3:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  Go get traumatized.

• 3:04Danielle LaRock?

  And then the other one, you've done all our Glacier episodes. The only other one we have, at least in our main feed, is episode 276, and it's a true crime themed episode. And then as far as summer, I'm like, okay, what do I think of when I think of summer, especially here in New England? And I think of great white sharks. And we did an episode, or I covered an episode, 231 about that very thing, sharks off of Cape Cod and a pretty tragic incident that happened there, but a lot to do with the sharks and the seals and what's going on there. So that's cool. And then lastly, when you're thinking of summer, you may want to like let loose and maybe

• 3:44Danielle LaRock?

  partake in some, some smoking or, you know, relaxation nation stuff. And you did a really funny episode on marijuana in parks.

• 3:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  I did. I think I titled it, uh, Don't Grow Weed in Parks?

• 4:00Danielle LaRock?

  You can't grow weed in a national park.

• 4:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  Grow weed in a national park.

• 4:05Danielle LaRock?

  You can smoke it, but you can't grow it. So that's episode 198. So those are my suggestions for some things if you're wanting a little episode for this week.

• 4:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. And if you've already listened to all those and you're like, hey, Danielle, I've, I've heard that before. I've been a fan since day one. Join our Patreon or our Apple subscriptions if you're not on there yet. And I have a fun summer one that I covered that would be a good one. And I titled it, A Guide on Surviving Quicksand in Zion National Park. And it is the season where you guys might run into some real life quicksand. Out there and I made a whole, I told a story of someone who got caught in Zion, but then I also give you tips on how to actually escape if you get caught in there. So that one is on, that one is specifically on Patreon and Apple subscriptions.

• 4:55Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And people ask us all the time to cover certain stories that aren't in our regular catalog, but lots live in Patreon land. So you can go over there. And then lastly, if you're truly a gold star student, A plus all around, and you're like, I know all this. I am an outsider. I've listened to all of your content. We don't rest. We have another podcast, honestly.

• 5:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  If you haven't heard, we do have another podcast.

• 5:24Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And it's called Watcher Cook and we have a little treat for you today.

• 5:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes. So if you haven't heard of Watcher Cook before, you've never tuned in, we are airing one of our episodes on this feed for you. Uh, but you can check out Watcher Cook on Instagram, on Spotify, Apple, wherever you listen to podcasts, but we thought that it was very fitting to put this one in our National Park After Dark feed because we tell the whole story of Mary Shelley.

• 5:50Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And it doesn't really make sense off the bat because to my knowledge, Mary Shelley was not known for her ruggedness or maybe her outdoor love of the outdoors. But we do talk about her kind of a weird amount on National Park After Dark.

• 6:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  A lot. She's been coming up a lot.

• 6:10Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So we decided to cover her on Watcher Cook and now we're gonna post the episode today here. So if you too are interested in Mary Shelley, this one's for you. We hope to see you guys over on Watcher Cook and then here next week when we're back to our normal grind.

• 6:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Do we say enjoy the view, but watch your back if it's not the end of the episode?

• 6:32Danielle LaRock?

  No, this isn't an episode. So enjoy Watcher Cook and we will see you next week.

• 6:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  And watch your back.

• 6:40Danielle LaRock?

  You didn't say enjoy the view. You didn't even do it right. Okay. Let's let the people know.

• 6:47Speaker 04

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• 7:15Danielle LaRock?

  The year was 1996 in Edinburgh, Scotland. In a quiet lab just outside the city, a sheep named Dolly was born, originally codenamed 6LL3. She had been cloned from a single cell taken from the utter of a six-year-old sheep. Her birth marked the first time a mammal had been created from an adult somatic cell, something long thought to be impossible.

• 7:39Danielle LaRock?

  Cloning itself wasn't new. Scientists had been experimenting with it since the 1950s, first with frogs, then later with mice, cows, and sheep, but always using early-stage embryonic cells. Dolly was different. She came from a fully-developed adult cell, already specialized for a different function. It was a leap that changed the way we understood biology and what we believed was possible. Her arrival raised hope. Conversations around advances in medicine and reproducing livestock came into play. But beneath the excitement, a darker question began to surface.

• 8:20Danielle LaRock?

  If we could do this with a sheep, could we do this with humans? Some called Dolly a miracle. Others saw a warning. The moment we shape life with our own hands, we cross an invisible threshold into where curiosity is matched by responsibility. Once we alter the natural order of life, nothing is quite the same. This is Watch Her Cook.

• 8:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hello everyone, I'm Cassie.

• 8:51Danielle LaRock?

  And I'm Danielle.

• 8:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Welcome back to Watch Her Cook, a podcast dedicated to sharing the incredible lives of women who have taken their power back throughout history. And what a thought provoking intro you have today.

• 9:05Danielle LaRock?

  Kind of gives Jurassic Park vibes.

• 9:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Such Jurassic Park vibes, which we know that you love.

• 9:12Danielle LaRock?

  Just because you can, doesn't mean you should?

• 9:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Question mark?

• 9:15Danielle LaRock?

  Question mark, question mark, the age old question, since Jurassic Park in 1994? Question mark?

• 9:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  I believe you.

• 9:24Danielle LaRock?

  I think that's right.

• 9:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  No matter that I do.

• 9:27Danielle LaRock?

  Don't quote me.

• 9:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, in the spirit of cloning and scientific research and all of the good things, we're kind of going back to maybe the original of cloning and creating, quote, monsters. But we're going to talk about Mary Shelley today and Frankenstein and that whole history.

• 9:49Danielle LaRock?

  She is somebody that has been popping up weirdly quite often in both of our lives for the past few months.

• 9:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  She has weirdly been making appearances and within National Park After Dark, our podcast over there, but then in our personal lives too. She's just popping up. I did an episode, I guess it was a few months ago now, time really flies by, but I did The Year Without a Summer and Mary Shelley gets brought up in that episode. And then after that, she just has been popping up here and there and everywhere. And it just felt like it made sense to talk about her story.

• 10:24Danielle LaRock?

  Absolutely. I have been really interested in learning about her ever since I've seen things about her pop up on my algorithm that, you know, they're just, they're just like one or two sentence things about, did you know this about this person? And they're the most unhinged, wild facts.

• 10:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Kind of like how we do on Watch Her Cook's podcast, Instagram?

• 10:45Danielle LaRock?

  Kind of like that. Yeah. And you're like, wait, I need to know more. So let's find out together.

• 10:52Danielle LaRock?

  By the age of 20, Mary Shelley had authored a novel that would leave an enduring mark not only on literature, but also on science, philosophy, and popular culture. Frankenstein was far more than a ghost story. It was a groundbreaking exploration of human ambition, ethical responsibility, and the cost of creation. Its themes have continued to resonate and evolve over the centuries, reflecting changing societal concerns and inspiring ongoing conversations about the boundaries of science and the nature of humanity.

• 11:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mary Shelley was born Mary Wollstonecraft Godwin in Sommertown, London, in 1797, and was the daughter of two liberal intellectuals. Her mother, Mary Wollstonecraft, was a feminist philosopher, educator, and writer, most known for her book, A Vindication of the Rights of Women, where she argues for the equality of men and women, especially in regards to female education. Her father, William Godwin, was a radical political thinker, novelist, and journalist, who is most known for his book, Inquiry Concerning Political Justice, where he argued that society could become more fair and reasonable through improving people's education, encouraging honest discussion, and promoting ethical behavior.

• 12:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  Tragically, Mary's mother died just 11 days after her birth. She developed puerperal fever, a common and often fatal infection at the time, frequently caused by doctors performing autopsies and then attending births without washing their hands.

• 12:23Danielle LaRock?

  God.

• 12:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Why, even when medicine wasn't what it is today, and we didn't know about soap and germs and stuff, why? Why would you go from an autopsy to a birth?

• 12:36Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. But I feel like, you know, you know this so well about me, and those who listen to National Park After Dark religiously know this about me. I love the Victorian era. It's like, I don't know what it is. There's something about it that is so... I'm so intrigued by.

• 12:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mm hmm.

• 12:53Danielle LaRock?

  And I'm about to dig into the book you actually got me.

• 12:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, cool.

• 12:58Danielle LaRock?

  For my birthday. I just finished, um, Everything is Tuberculosis, which, shock.

• 13:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  Is everything tuberculosis?

• 13:06Danielle LaRock?

  Is tuberculosis.

• 13:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's very intriguing.

• 13:10Danielle LaRock?

  But it was the author of The Fault in Our Stars.

• 13:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, interesting.

• 13:15Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, so.

• 13:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  I have not read that, but I've seen the movie.

• 13:18Danielle LaRock?

  The movie, yeah, it's just a really approachable way for that. Anyway, off topic. My next book is the How to Be a Victorian that you bought me for my birthday.

• 13:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hmm.

• 13:27Danielle LaRock?

  And I know it's not great. The Victorian era had a lot of issues, and this is one of them.

• 13:37Danielle LaRock?

  William surrounded Mary with constant new ways to learn, which was very unusual for girls at the time. She had access to his extensive library, met with other intellectuals and writers regularly, and was encouraged to read, write, and think critically from a young age. It is also documented that she spent time at the churchyard, reading her mother's work at her gravestone. For six months in 1811, she also attended a boarding school in Ramsgate, Kent, a town in England. However, the relative stability of her early years began to unravel in 1801, when her father met Mary Jane Claremont, an unmarried woman with two children of her own. Mary Jane favored her own children and was known to be cold and critical towards Mary and her half-sister Fanny,

• 14:22Danielle LaRock?

  fostering a strained household.

• 14:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  In June of 1812, Mary was sent by her father to Dundee, Scotland, to live with the Baxter family, who were somewhat strangers at the time. While the move partly served to ease tensions at home, or was maybe a suggestion from Mary Jane to isolate Mary from her father, it was also intended to give Mary space to grow intellectually and emotionally. This period proved formative for Mary as she was able to cultivate her imagination and write.

• 14:52Danielle LaRock?

  Mary returned to London in 1812 at the age of 16, where she was reintroduced to Percy Bysshe Shelley. He was a passionate young poet and admirer of her father, who she had met two years prior. Percy first met William Godwin while studying at Oxford and was drawn to his radical Enlightenment ideals. William, in turn, saw Percy as a promising young protege.

• 15:16Danielle LaRock?

  Additionally, at the time William was in debt and Percy was able to offer financial support, but his determination to fund political causes frustrated his conservative aristocratic family and they eventually cut him off, leaving him unable to fulfill his financial promises.

• 15:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  At the same time Percy and Mary's connection grew deeper. Mary was attracted to his outlook on life and his quote "wild, intellectual and unearthly looks," whatever that means.

• 15:44Danielle LaRock?

  Wild, intellectual and unearthly?

• 15:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's like your dream man.

• 15:48Danielle LaRock?

  I know. Is Percy Bisshelly my dream boy?

• 15:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Your soulmate?

• 15:54Danielle LaRock?

  Your soulmate?

• 15:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Despite the fact that Percy was already married, the two fell in love and unwilling to be separated, they eloped to France in 1814, taking her stepsister Jane Clermont, who later changed her name to Claire, with them. Mary's father disapproved and felt betrayed by her decision. Their affair was frowned upon and he was concerned with the financial hardship Mary may face.

• 16:21Danielle LaRock?

  The two documented their European travels and the raw material for Mary Shelley's first adult publication, History of a Six Weeks Tour, which was released in 1817. Once they got to Lake Lucerne, the lack of money forced them to return to London. To make matters more complicated, Mary fell pregnant and her father refused to help her. It is also believed that Claire and Percy became lovers. For context, Percy believed in free, non-possessive love and challenged norms like marriage and jealousy.

• 16:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, but your wife's sister?

• 16:56Danielle LaRock?

  I mean, keeping it all in the fam, I guess.

• 17:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Quite literally, but man. I mean, if you want an open relationship, good on you if you're all consenting and like that, but my sister?

• 17:11Danielle LaRock?

  You feel, but you also love your sister.

• 17:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, but that doesn't mean my husband should love my sister intimately.

• 17:18Danielle LaRock?

  It's kind of like keep your friends close, your enemies closer type of thing, I guess. It's like, I want to know what's going on.

• 17:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Is your sister your enemy?

• 17:24Danielle LaRock?

  In this context, maybe. I just think it's interesting that Percy, you know, for context, he believed in free, non possessive love and challenged norms like marriage and jealousy. But is that just in regards to him? Or would he be down for all of that if roles were were reversed? And Mary wanted that as well?

• 17:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like if Mary wanted to also have an intimate relationship with his brother, would he be cool with it?

• 17:51Danielle LaRock?

  Somebody else, right?

• 17:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Right.

• 17:54Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. It's

• 17:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Is it a double standard?

• 17:56Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, question mark.

• 18:01Danielle LaRock?

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• 18:44Danielle LaRock?

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• 19:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Anyway, so shortly after the couple settled with Claire in Somers Town and later in Nelson Square, both in England, in February 1815, Mary gave birth to a baby girl born two months premature. The infant died just two weeks later, devastating Mary and plunging her into a depression. She recorded a heartbreaking dream in her journal, which reads, quote, "Dream that my little baby came to life again, that it had only been cold, and that we rubbed it before the fire and it lived. I wake and find no baby. I think about that little thing all day, not in good spirits." As Mary grieved, Claire left and soon became romantically involved with another famous poet

• 19:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  of the time, Lord Byron. By this point in 1816, Mary had given birth to her second child, William, named after her father.

• 20:08Danielle LaRock?

  Determined to maintain contact with Lord Byron, Claire persuaded Mary and Percy to join her on a trip to Switzerland in the summer of 1816 to Lake Geneva. This year is historically known as "the year without a summer" due to record-low temperatures across Europe.

• 20:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Which you can learn more about if you check out National Park After Dark, which I titled it "The Year Without a Summer." I don't know what episode it is offhand, but...

• 20:32Danielle LaRock?

  Was it this year?

• 20:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, either this year or end of last year.

• 20:37Danielle LaRock?

  2024, 2025.

• 20:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 20:40Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, so this group, Mary, Percy, Byron, Claire, and Byron's physician, John Polidori, spent their time writing, boating, and staying up late sharing a collection of German ghost stories known as Fantaisie Magoriana. One evening, Byron proposed that each person try to write their own ghost story.

• 20:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mary initially struggled to come up with an idea, but one night, after overhearing a conversation about the possibility of reanimating the dead, she had a powerful waking vision. She described this saying, quote, "I saw the pale student of the unhallowed arts kneeling beside the thing he had put together. I saw the hideous fantasism of a man stretched out and then, on working of some powerful engine, show signs of life and stir with an uneasy, half-vital motion." The next day, Mary began writing the story that would evolve into Frankenstein, also called "The Modern Prometheus." Prometheus was a Titan in Greek mythology who defied

• 21:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  the Olympic gods and gave humanity the gift of fire. This was a haunting novel that would forever change the landscape of modern literature, and of course, one that we all know.

• 21:52Danielle LaRock?

  I think it is so interesting that... I didn't know the background of Frankenstein, this like origin story.

• 22:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Me either.

• 22:01Danielle LaRock?

  And how it was birthed out of a dream that she had after...

• 22:08Danielle LaRock?

  You know, or this vision that she had after getting this writing prompt essentially.

• 22:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mm hmm.

• 22:14Danielle LaRock?

  And I can't help but I am so interested in dreams and what like grasping meaning from them. Or I don't know if you're into like spirituality and stuff, a lot of people who are into that like me. It's more of like a download, maybe during the it's called like a download, which is basically inspiration that you seemingly seemingly get out of nowhere.

• 22:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mm hmm.

• 22:39Danielle LaRock?

  And it seems like this is what she's getting.

• 22:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, this dream kind of prompted this whole and conversations and. Yeah, and to come from something that feels kind of like maybe it wouldn't have sparked this huge movement. You know, it's just like, think of something to write about. Here's a writing prompt and then you have a dream and you're like, okay, here's my idea. Here's my imagination coming to life. This is what's meant to be. And what's funny about it just to tie in another thing of a year without a summer. When I was looking into Mary Shelley, a lot of when you look at Frankenstein, it's all dreary weather. It's raining, it's cold the whole time. And that's all inspired from the year without a summer. And Lord Byron, his writings and the year without a summer.

• 23:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Also, I was researching when I was doing that episode for National Park After Dark. He helped inspire Dracula and like the weird weather and stuff around Dracula. So it's all kind of connected with these famous, very historical books that we all have grown up with. Frankenstein, Dracula. I feel like everyone has to read those at some point.

• 23:47Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, that's my my goal of 2025. This year is to read a classic novel.

• 23:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mm hmm.

• 23:54Danielle LaRock?

  And I chose Dracula and it's on my shelf. Just waiting to be read. Maybe it should be Frankenstein after this. I don't know, but.

• 24:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  I know. I actually was looking into Mary Shelley because after this, I'm like, I should read one of her books because of course I've seen Frankenstein, but I've never read the book.

• 24:10Danielle LaRock?

  And you gotta hear it straight from her, right?

• 24:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, she knows the story best.

• 24:15Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 24:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  And the books always do better than the movies.

• 24:18Danielle LaRock?

  Have you ever had one of these like downloads inspirational or a dream? That kind of sparked something in in life?

• 24:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know. I don't know if I've ever had like a like a dream that told me to do something.

• 24:34Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 24:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Have you?

• 24:36Danielle LaRock?

  No, I've had premonition dreams, but they didn't really.

• 24:41Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. It wasn't like this inspiration of like, okay, I woke up and now I there's something I must do because of that.

• 24:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 24:49Danielle LaRock?

  But there's one, when I say premonition, I'm not talking like earth shattering, my whole life changed like the very condensed version that you've heard before, but I'll share again is after my partner Ian passed away, I felt like I was wide open to the spiritual realm. Like things were happening to me left and right. I was seeing things, hearing things, connecting with things. And there was this one night that I had, it's like I, if I envision it right now, it's clear as day, that type of dream. And this was now years ago, but I was sitting in a room with on all these fold out chairs. I was at the front row in this crowded room and there was a mic in front of me. Like we're about to watch somebody perform something.

• 25:34Danielle LaRock?

  And I was in the front row and all of a sudden my grandfather, my mom's dad came up to the mic with the folded pieces of paper that he like unfolded, like he was about to make this speech or something like that. And he passed away about seven years ago now. And I don't think of him like super often. So I was kind of, I recognized in the dream that I was surprised to see him. And the only thing he said was he, he unfurled this piece of paper. And he looked directly at me and he was reading off of it, but all he was saying was limoncello. Like over and over and over. And then I woke up, immediately texted my mom and said, Does limoncello mean anything to you?

• 26:19Danielle LaRock?

  Because I thought he was using me to get through to her. Yeah. Because she is always looking to connect with him. And she said, uh, no, it's like an Italian liqueur. And we're Italian. So I'm like, okay, well, I don't know what that means. And she's like, I don't either. So we just kind of brushed it off and that was that. And then that night, I was living in Evergreen, Colorado at the time, and I went to a local restaurant, bar, like mountain town, Colorado, old western type of, you know, restaurant bar. And the people next to, seating next to me was, were talking about, like,

• 27:02Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know, they were, we connected and we started talking about Ian and like, you know, that was great and whatever. And then the bartender came up and overheard us. And I think she felt bad for me, maybe. And she's like, would you like a free dessert? And I said, yeah, I guess so, you know, sure. And she said, okay, well, the dessert for tonight is limoncello. And it was limoncello, um, like that, the actual food, not the liqueur. Yeah. And I was like, you've got to be kidding me. See, wait a minute, this can't be a coincidence. I have never seen limoncello on a dessert menu in that restaurant or any restaurant like it.

• 27:45Danielle LaRock?

  It didn't serve Italian food. It wasn't, you know what I mean? It was just strange. Too strange. Yeah. So I was just like, I basically fell out of my chair. I took a picture of it and I sent it to my mom and you'll like, I was like, you'll never believe what was just offered to me.

• 28:02Danielle LaRock?

  It's like, that's not some startling, like nothing happened. There was no like, But something came from a dream. Right. Which is really cool. Yeah. But anyway, we're going back to Mary Shelley. Cause that's what we're, we're all about today. That's what we're here for.

• 28:24Danielle LaRock?

  For those of you who may not be super familiar with Frankenstein, or need a little bit of a refresher, because I think we all know the basics of what the story is, but let's give a little recap. Frankenstein tells the story of Robert Walton, the captain of a ship headed to the North Pole, who discovers Victor Frankenstein on his expedition. Victor is a young scientist who has a desire to discover the secret of life, and spends months assembling a creature from dead body parts. However, once the creature is brought to life, Victor is horrified and disgusted by what he has created, abandoning the creature before falling ill himself. Shortly after, Victor discovers that his younger brother, William,

• 29:07Danielle LaRock?

  has been murdered, which is blamed on the family servant, who is then executed.

• 29:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Victor is overcome with guilt, but cannot prove that the creature he created was responsible. However, the two soon meet face to face again, and the creature explains that he's the one who did it, but he pleads for an understanding. He explains that his loneliness, his isolation, and rejection is fueling the anger, and begs for Victor to create a companion who is equally as disgusting as him. Victor refuses at first, horrified at the thought of giving life to another creature. However, he is eventually convinced, recruiting his friend from university, Henry Clerval, to help gather information to make this happen.

• 29:51Danielle LaRock?

  Alone in the mountains, Victor begins working on the second creation, before pausing halfway through, regretting his decision, and deciding to destroy the project. The creature vows to seek revenge, eventually murdering Henry and Victor's soon-to-be-wife, Elizabeth. His father dies of grief soon after. Victor dedicates the remainder of his life to hunting and destroying the creature he brought to life. But by the time Robert Walton encounters him, Victor is on the brink of death. A few days later, Walton finds the creature mourning over Victor's body. The creature speaks of his deep loneliness, anguish, hatred, and regret, and reveals his intention to end his own suffering as well.

• 30:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's such a deep plot because when you really pick apart the entire story, it's so thought provoking and it makes you, it makes it so there's no real like villain of the story because you have the person who created it and now you have this disgusting, quote disgusting creature that now has a life and a soul and is wanting things that humans want. And it's like, who is, who is the real problem here? And I just think it's so thought provoking just as a whole premise, but it's also, I think a lot of people resonate with it. They resonate with the emotions that come with this movie and the story, I should say book.

• 31:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  This, this movie, I've clearly only seen the movie.

• 31:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think that a lot of people resonate with it. Is there anything about this story in particular that resonates with you, do you think?

• 31:29Danielle LaRock?

  I think the thing that most sticks with me is the themes that it touches upon and how timeless they are. Like all of these, you know, regret, anger, loneliness, all these real human emotions that transcend time and place. You know, like Mary Shelley wrote this in the 1800s in another country, but she could be anyone writing this from anywhere at any time. And we could all relate to certain elements of this story. And I think that's what makes it so pertinent and real for anybody who reads it at any time, because you can relate to different parts of it, even if obviously you've never been a mad scientist that brought something back

• 32:14Danielle LaRock?

  from dead human body parts, you know?

• 32:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, but it's the emotion that comes with it.

• 32:19Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, she did such a wonderful job of just tapping into a universal.

• 32:25Danielle LaRock?

  Feeling of the human experience and different aspects of it that makes it just so relevant forever.

• 32:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  I agree with everything that you said. It is something, there's a reason why everyone knows what Frankenstein is, and it's because she really pulled out the human emotions and made it so everyone forever will resonate with it and relate to it.

• 32:51Danielle LaRock?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mary completed the first edition in 1817 at age 19 and published 500 copies anonymously on January 1, 1818. This was in an effort to avoid gender bias faced by female writers at the time, especially due to the novel's controversial themes. By that summer, a friend of Shelley's described the novel as, quote, universally read, and in 1823, it was adapted into a stage production. The novel's impact has grown over time. By 2016, nearly 50,000 copies were sold in a single year, 100 times more than the original print run, and in 2021,

• 33:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  a first edition sold at auction for $1.17 million, setting the record for the highest price paid for a printed work by a woman.

• 33:42Danielle LaRock?

  Wow. All those years later.

• 33:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like we were just mentioning, it's timeless and it's still, I mean, if it's selling a few years ago for over a million dollars, it's clearly the worth of this book is, I think throughout time is just going to stay where it is.

• 34:00Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, if not grow more if we're looking at the trajectory of this, you know?

• 34:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, and I think it's incredible that this author that's in the 1800s, that's a woman who at first she didn't even want to publish under her name because she didn't want people to know she was a woman, is now in 2021 and now 2025 still is the highest sell, like the most money for a book ever written by a woman.

• 34:27Danielle LaRock?

  It's so cool. It's so cool to see.

• 34:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  If she could see herself now, I hope she can somewhere. As Percy Shelley had written the preface of the first edition, many credited him as the author or co-author of the novel.

• 34:40Danielle LaRock?

  Three editions were written in total, each with differences attributed to Percy's editing. However, in more recent years, this assumption has received heavy backlash. In her publication, In Search of Mary Shelley, author Fiona Sampson says, "Percy's corrections, visible in the Frankenstein notebooks held at the Budleigh Library in Oxford, have been seized as evidence that he must have at least co-authored the novel. In fact, when I examined the notebooks myself, I realized that Percy did rather less than any line editor working in publishing today."

• 35:16Danielle LaRock?

  Mary Shelley's name did not appear on Frankenstein until the second edition was published in 1823. Her authorship was cemented with the third and final edition in 1831, which included a new preface where she reflected on the origins of her story and the influence behind it.

• 35:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  To prove that she wrote it, probably.

• 35:34Danielle LaRock?

  She's like, alright, this is getting out of hand. Like, you guys are all thinking that Percy did this.

• 35:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like, here's the inspiration, the actual inspiration that started this.

• 35:43Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 35:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  In this introduction, Mary credited a number of people and experiences that had inspired her. One was Fantais Megoriana, the ghost stories that the group read during the cold summer of 1816 in Switzerland, an atmosphere that sparked Lord Byron's famous challenge for each guest writing a ghost story. She also drew from her formative years in Dundee, Scotland. She recalled, quote, "I wrote then, but in a most commonplace style. It was beneath the trees of the grounds belonging to our house, or on the bleak sides of the woodless mountains, near that my true compositions, the airy flights of my imagination, were born and fostered." She additionally drew from scientific ideas of the time.

• 36:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  She referenced the theory of Galvanism, named after Luigi Galviani, an Italian physician whose experiments with electricity and animal tissue sparked public fascination with reanimation. She also noted the conversation she overheard about the possibility of reviving the dead through scientific means. And finally, she mentioned Erasmus Darwin, the grandfather of Charles Darwin, who speculated on the animation of life as another influence. However, ultimately, the most powerful source came from within, her vivid waking nightmare that terrified her.

• 37:03Danielle LaRock?

  I think that... Also, looking at the timeframe of when this is all happening, like, of course, she just points to a bunch of elements that, you know, inspired her, but also the time period, like, the Victorian era and this point in time, by and large, society was really, really engrossed and fascinated by death. And it was a topic that was really spoken about openly and kind of examined in a bunch of different ways. And I think that that was probably another, like, I just seem, I just look at this story kind

• 37:45Danielle LaRock?

  of like, the perfect storm of all these elements coming together to create this perfect recipe for Frankenstein to be created. And I think the foundational layer is just this point in time in history where death was kind of everywhere and was more widely spoken about and accepted and just part of day to day life. And I think that really laid the groundwork for a work like this to be not only created, but to be perpetuated and just like, I mean, all these additions coming out and everyone's so intrigued by it. And it was just kind of a different way of looking at death that was thrown into the mix, you know, like,

• 38:28Danielle LaRock?

  what happens if we put all these parts together and reanimate it and what does that mean? And not to say that we're not intrigued by death now as a society, but I think back then, you couldn't top the Victorian era and their fascination with death and life after death and what happens and all of that.

• 38:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  And she certainly didn't shy away from it. And as we mentioned earlier, she said, I wanted to be anonymous at first because I'm a woman and this is a dark topic. But of course, now, women, we are women who are talking about death and dark topics. And it is much more commonplace nowadays. But it's interesting because she, not only was she talking about death, but she created a lot of layers to it and a lot of emotion, like we mentioned before. And one of the things where she does this intro, she talks about her inspiration because people are questioning her and they're saying Percy did it. And one thing that was noted that in Percy's edits that he made to this is he actually

• 39:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  kind of took a lot of those layers and complexities out of this story. And he made Victor Frankenstein, he made him the hero and he made Frankenstein the actual villain of this, where he was just this monster that was created and needed to be ended. Whereas she was like, no, this is very complex. This thing he created as a person with feelings and there's loneliness and anger and sadness. And she was actually the one who made this story what it is today. And I think that it's just, it's interesting that Percy tried to take credit for it, but...

• 40:10Danielle LaRock?

  I know, and also did kind of like the opposite of what she originally intended.

• 40:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  And his version would have never lasted today. It wouldn't still be here today if it didn't, if you just, there are so many stories that have a hero and a monster. You know? The reason that this one is so famous is because of the emotion that it invokes on the person who is reading it.

• 40:37Danielle LaRock?

  Well, let's talk a little bit about why this has kind of stood the test of time. Because there are so many angles to consider as to why Frankenstein has withstood the test of time. Its layered themes such as ethical responsibilities, the need for human companionship, and the consequences of playing God speaks to universal fears, moral dilemmas, and questions that remain deeply relevant today.

• 41:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  To begin with, feminist scholars are particularly fascinated by how Mary, still a teenager at the time, broke into a literary world dominated by men with such a lasting impact. While they acknowledge that she was born into a progressive family that valued education for women, they also highlight how Frankenstein carved out space for female voices in an era of scientific and social change.

• 41:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  In addition, many scholars interpret the novel as a deeply personal reflection of Mary's own life, especially her experiences with motherhood, loss, and abandonment. When she began writing Frankenstein, Mary had already lost her mother to childbirth and suffered the heartbreak of losing her first child. Critics, like Ellen Moore's, have argued that the novel was among the first in Western literature to explore the hidden anxieties of pregnancy and motherhood, subjects often ignored by male writers and considered taboo for women to discuss publicly. As the story shifts from Victor's perspective to The Creatures, readers are drawn into a powerful portrayal of isolation and longing.

• 42:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  In many ways, The Creatures' emotional world, his hunger for love, his grief, his rage, echoes Mary's own struggles.

• 42:17Danielle LaRock?

  From another point of view, the book is frequently referred to as "The Birth of Science Fiction" and Mary Shelley as "The Mother of Science Fiction." With advancements in technology and science, particularly in regards to artificial intelligence, Frankenstein continues to be a foundational text to emphasize the dangers of unchecked ambition, which refers to the desire for power without the awareness or consideration of consequences. It encourages conversation about the importance of integrating ethics into scientific research and technological development. In fact, according to scholars, quote, "The terms 'Franken-science,' 'Franken-food,'

• 42:59Danielle LaRock?

  or 'Frankenstein syndrome' have been applied as warnings to playing God in practices such as transplantations, robots, androids, and artificial intelligence in general, genetic engineering, gene therapy, cloning, and non-human bioengineered species." And that's so true, I mean, it is so relevant. We are coming off the heels right now. Just the most recent example that comes to mind, the quote-unquote "dire wolf" that was quote-unquote brought back.

• 43:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  I was just thinking of that, too.

• 43:29Danielle LaRock?

  Which was not true. I mean, they just came out today, that bioengineering company, Colossal, just came out today and said, yeah, that wasn't, we didn't bring back a dire wolf, we basically just gene-edited a gray wolf, which... Scientists, right off the bat, so many people came forward and said, hold on a minute, you're advertising this falsely to the general public. And they just now, like, a month later, came out and said, yeah, you're right. You know.

• 43:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Our bad.

• 43:58Danielle LaRock?

  So that aside, like, let's say they actually did. Let's say they actually did bring back the dire wolf. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. And this is a topic that gets me so fired up, especially with de-extinction and what that means for conservation and things like that. But, you know, the ethics behind that, should you do something like that? Even with these animals right now, I think they named them like Romulus and Remus and whatever. I think there's three of them. You know, these are animals now that are very real and brought back into a very real world that doesn't have space for them, doesn't have a place for them.

• 44:42Danielle LaRock?

  I mean, just like Frankenstein, you know, they didn't ask to be brought into the world like this. And now, they have, they're at this brunt end of, well, what do we do with you now? Like, okay, we could do it. Great, science, woo-hoo. But now what? And now there's these real beings.

• 45:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, they're real beings. And just like Frankenstein, they're viewed as monsters, especially if you're putting them into these landscapes where there's a lot of farming happening and people and human, basically civilization, who are afraid of them. Now you're putting them in these spaces. I don't think these ones in particular are being released. But just in general, like, if it were to happen and you're releasing them into the wild, where do you put them? Where are they're going to be accepted?

• 45:32Danielle LaRock?

  I just read, I keep bringing up books, but it's all I do. It's my only hobby.

• 45:38Danielle LaRock?

  I just read this book called Fall of the Wild and it talks all about these themes like de-extinction and re-wilding and what that mean like the the future that we're stepping into in regards to conservation and bioengineering and kind of bringing back species from the brink or from the dead like should we could we if we do how should we do it like just in like all the ethics and logistics that surround these topics that are very relevant today now and it was written in 2019 so before this whole colossal thing but obviously it's been talked about and because the next thing that's on the list is mammoths and let's bring those back and it's

• 46:22Danielle LaRock?

  just kind of like a lot of people want to pull their hair out because it's like okay well if we do that like we don't even have room for the species we have now like where are you gonna put mammoths

• 46:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like why don't we work on protecting what we have versus bringing back what we've lost

• 46:40Danielle LaRock?

  Yep and I think the desire to bring back the dead is something that everyone can sympathize with and empathize with and whether that's a person or just this desire to bring back a piece of time that you is just like nostalgic or I don't know it feels like you're looking at the past with rose colored glasses but bringing the past into the present creates so much more problems and complexities and I don't know like just themes of Frankenstein are so relevant

• 47:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah

• 47:18Danielle LaRock?

  Especially now you know like I just think it's so interesting to look at this story that I don't think Mary Shelley when she was writing this was thinking of the year 2025 and how this would fit into like AI conversations and you know but she did it

• 47:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, and I also think that it's really interesting for this where we're talking about Frankenstein syndrome and you're talking about transplantations too, because I think that that's super relevant today. I mean, if you think about it, maybe I'm a modern day Frankenstein because I have parts from two, I've had two kidney transplants. I have two different people's kidneys inside me, you know, so like maybe I'm a modern day Frankenstein, but also kind of going into that, like on a lighter brighter note than um, kind of like the negative feelings that we have towards the conservation aspect in medicine, when you are, when they're figuring out how to bioengineer kidneys and livers and stuff

• 48:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  for people, you are, I mean, they say there's a question of playing God, but you're also saving lives in that and you are, if we reach a point where we can bioengineer a kidney for someone that is an exact match for them and they don't need medication and someone doesn't need to go through surgery to donate and someone doesn't need to die for someone else to live, you know, that is, it's this whole new world that's kind of opening. So there's like, there's so many lines to draw, right? Because it's like, where's too far? What is good? What is productive and what is detrimental? And it's just, I, the conversation can kind of go on forever, um, in so many different directions. But like you said, is

• 49:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  also why Frankenstein is so relevant today because we can all kind of, we can all put a piece of ourselves into Frankenstein.

• 49:14Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, definitely.

• 49:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  But to go back into the story and wrap it up, finally, its legacy is cultural. Frankenstein has inspired film adaptations, plays and academic works. It's one of the few novels to truly transcend genre and medium, moving from literature into science, pop culture, politics, and even philosophy. Its ability to evolve alongside human society is exactly why it continues to be read, reread, and debated over 200 years later, kind of like what we're doing today.

• 49:47Danielle LaRock?

  Following the release of Frankenstein, Mary Shelley went on to write many more novels, essays, travel writings, and short stories that reflected her evolving views on politics, society, gender, and human emotion. Her life quickly became marked by both creative output and devastating personal losses.

• 50:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  In 1818, Mary and Percy Shelley moved to Italy, seeking a better climate and new inspiration. That same year, their daughter Clara, who was born just a year earlier, passed away. Less than a year later, in June 1819, their beloved son William died of malaria in Rome. This strained her marriage with Percy, who was also becoming more involved with other women. During this period of grief, Mary wrote the novella Matilda, a dark psychological tale about a father's incestuous desire and a daughter's isolation. This was released posthumously.

• 50:41Danielle LaRock?

  The same year, she gave birth to Percy Florence Shelley, her only surviving child. Around this time, Mary also began writing Valpurga, published in 1823, a historical novel about a female ruler caught between love and political loyalty, reflecting themes of power and identity. Tragedy struck again in June of 1822, when Mary suffered a life-threatening miscarriage, and just weeks later, on July 8, 1822, Percy Shelley drowned in a boating accident in the Gulf of La Spezia. He was just 29 years old. Mary returned to England with her son.

• 51:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  In 1826, Mary wrote The Last Man, a haunting novel set in a future cursed by plague, exploring themes of isolation, loss, and the collapse of civilization. Many see it as an emotional response to the deaths of her loved ones and a reflection on human vulnerability. She also wrote L'Adore in 1835, a novel about a mother and daughter navigating life after the loss of the family patriarch, and Faulkner in 1837, which explores redemption, responsibility, and the moral education of a young woman.

• 51:54Danielle LaRock?

  She spent her later years raising her son and dedicated herself to editing and sharing her late husband's poetry and writings, though she had to navigate pressure from his aristocratic family, who were uneasy about her political views and reputation. Her health steadily declined through the 1840s, suffering from chronic headaches and weakness, which were later attributed to a brain tumor. This eventually killed her on February 1, 1851, at the age of 53. The final years of her life were a mix of quiet literary work, personal reflection, and deteriorating health.

• 52:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Today, Mary's legacy lives on through Frankenstein and her later novels, all exploring humanity, loss, and life's complexities. Her work continues to spark curiosity and provoke questions about what it truly means to be human.

• 52:46Danielle LaRock?

  Mary couldn't write a light work, could she?

• 52:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  No. She was a dark soul.

• 52:51Danielle LaRock?

  She was here for a reason. She's like, let's talk about the tough stuff.

• 52:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yep.

• 52:55Danielle LaRock?

  And I love that about her. And I don't think that you need to suffer personal loss or tragedy to be a creative, but I think it sure as hell helps. And that's coming from personal experience. Like, I have drawn, I have felt the most creative after tragedy. And it's like, the one, in my view, it's the one, quote unquote, positive that comes from a real negative. And I don't know what that's about. I'm sure there's lots of scientific

• 53:35Danielle LaRock?

  research and psychology research out there that kind of pins to why that is. But, I mean, she is just the embodiment of that. I mean, her whole life. And she was so young.

• 53:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  I know.

• 53:49Danielle LaRock?

  All of this, and she did that all before her 50s, you know?

• 53:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. And all the books that she wrote. And even Percy, when we talked about, he died when he was 29. I was like, hold on, they're only, they're only in their 20s still? All of this has happened and they're in their 20s? So, yeah, a lot, a lot went on. And I agree. I think that, I think that tragedy and grief and loss and trauma, I think that all sparks these emotions in us internally that come out in expressive ways. And sometimes that can be harmful, and sometimes that can be creative. And sometimes, you know, people deal with it in different ways. And I think that- The reason that a lot of creatives happen after these big life altering events is because

• 54:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  it's one, it's a coping mechanism, but also it's this emotion that's finding its way out. And it's finding that in a creative way.

• 54:45Danielle LaRock?

  I think it's also like this search for meaning.

• 54:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Right.

• 54:49Danielle LaRock?

  Like, what, like, why, why did this happen? And like, how can I make sense of that? And what was the reason? And what, what can I learn from this? And, you know, like, it's just this real struggle for finding the meaning of like, life and death and what, what, like, what is the reason, you know, type of thing? And

• 55:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Right. The question we all ask.

• 55:15Danielle LaRock?

  Question mark?

• 55:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Question mark?

• 55:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  What is the reason?

• 55:19Danielle LaRock?

  What is the reason?

• 55:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  For life and death?

• 55:21Danielle LaRock?

  Um, yeah. But anyway, Mary Shelley, definitely, maybe we'll do like a, maybe we'll do a, uh, we have a book club ourselves and not for Watcher Cook, but it would be cool to do like a joint read of Frankenstein at some point.

• 55:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, or one of her other books.

• 55:37Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, like maybe in the fall or something like that and just

• 55:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 55:41Danielle LaRock?

  Um, because I am intrigued and the movie doesn't, like, when I think of Frankenstein, and maybe I'm thinking of, maybe I'm not even thinking of the right thing, but I think of, um, Gene Wilder, like Willy Wonka's character or

• 55:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 55:58Danielle LaRock?

  actor, he's in it, right? He plays Victor.

• 56:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Does he?

• 56:04Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. Or was that Frankenstein's bride or something like that?

• 56:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  I haven't seen Frankenstein since high school, so I don't remember the actors.

• 56:11Danielle LaRock?

  The like, it's alive, like,

• 56:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 56:14Danielle LaRock?

  You know, I'm pretty sure that's him.

• 56:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Gene Wilder?

• 56:16Danielle LaRock?

  Someone help us.

• 56:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  It might be.

• 56:18Danielle LaRock?

  I'm gonna look really quick.

• 56:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Google.

• 56:19Danielle LaRock?

  Ah, I'm thinking of young Frankenstein, nineteen seventy-four.

• 56:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Gene Wilder.

• 56:24Danielle LaRock?

  Gene, yeah. I don't know. I honestly don't know if I've ever seen the original Frankenstein now that I'm looking at just like the previews online.

• 56:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, you have your homework.

• 56:36Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, okay. No, I have.

• 56:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, anyway. On that note, everyone, thank you so much for tuning in to Watcher Cook.

• 56:42Danielle LaRock?

  If you're looking to dive a little deeper into Mary Shelley's story, we've dropped some sources for you in the description. Let us know what incredible women's stories you'd like to hear next.

• 56:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  And of course, a big shout out to Zickbird Productions, who produces our podcast and helps bring these stories to life. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Watcher Cook Podcast, leave a review, and subscribe for more inspiring stories. Just a reminder, empowered women empower the world. Now let's go cook. See you next Wednesday.

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