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Conservation writer and journalist Hal Herring joins Steven Rinella to discuss the history, value, and ongoing threats facing America's 640 million acres of public land. They examine how public lands became entangled in cultural and political polarization starting in the 1980s, the dangers of privatization and the externalization of industrial costs, and why public lands remain vital to the democratic experience. Throughout the conversation, Herring draws on decades of reporting and hands-on woods experience to explain how federal management, historical legislation like the Weeks Act, and local community connection are essential to preserving public access for future generations.
The episode opens with host Steven Rinella introducing the show and a brief advertisement for Black Buffalo tobacco alternative.
Rinella discusses the vast public lands in America and the current trend of privatization and cultural wars surrounding them.
Rinella welcomes conservation writer Hal Herring to talk about public lands, their history, and current challenges.
Herring explains how public lands have been losing support since the 1980s due to anti-federal sentiment and cultural wars.
The conversation delves into the early 20th-century logging, mining, and political battles that shaped public land policy.
Herring discusses contemporary legal arguments, partisan battles, and the threat of privatization of national forests.
The hosts debate how citizen engagement and representative governance are essential to preserving public lands.
Rinella reflects on political shifts, his frustrations with policy, and hopes for future stewardship of public lands.
The hosts discuss why public lands have become a Republican issue and the historical roots of that shift.
They examine the Koch brothers' influence on deregulation and the privatization mindset that fuels opposition to public lands.
The conversation turns to how think tanks are funded and how that shapes their policy positions on public land issues.
They explore the hypothetical scenario of privatizing water resources and its potential impact on the American West.
The episode concludes with reflections on preserving public lands and the need for transparent, evidence‑based policy.
The hosts review key legislation such as the Weeks Act and Clark McNary Act that established federal land stewardship.
They discuss how contemporary politicians, especially in Montana and Utah, navigate public land issues amid partisan pressures.
The conversation covers the Chaffetz and Lee proposals, public reactions, and the political fallout from proposed land sales.
They analyze how private interests, including foreign actors, could influence land sales and the national security implications.
Railroad Ties in the Bob Marshallstory
The guest shares how timber cutters drove over four hundred thousand railroad ties down shallow rivers out of what is now the Bob Marshall Wilderness before it was protected.
Slow Decline Since the 1980sinsight
The guest explains that public lands have been slowly losing ground since the 1980s as they became entangled in culture wars and anti-federal sentiment.
Middle-Class Roots of Conservationinsight
The guest and host explain how post-World War Two prosperity allowed middle-class Americans to visit public lands and demand environmental protections like the Clean Water Act.
The Pittsburgh Flood of 1907data
Severe deforestation around Pittsburgh caused massive floods that shut down steel mills, directly prompting the creation of the Weeks Act in 1911 to protect watersheds.
State Lands Divestment in Utahstory
The guest notes that Utah's state lands agency has actively sold off sections of land to private buyers, cutting off long-standing grazing leases and public access.
Flaw in the 1872 Mining Lawdebate
The guest and host discuss how the outdated 1872 mining law allows modern global corporations to extract public resources without paying fair market value.
“Americans own 640 million acres of public land together.”
“If that applies to you, what you gotta do is you gotta learn how to spend the right time out in the woods, the right time in the tree.”
“The fight over public lands? And my answer was it's a neither.”
“We have been losing slowly for about, since the 1980s.”
“I don't know, why is it then in the last 20 years that animosity to public lands has, has become a right thing, has become a Republican thing?”
“And a very interesting guy. If you applied Murray Rothbard's, like, you know, theories to your life, it would be a disaster.”
“When you think of water like you think of fuel?”
“And what I wish people understood about public lands was that, um, when you're, when you have, they, they're only really valuable in their aggregate.”
“And that impacted the mule deer herd. That was the externalization of the cost of that production.”
“I want there to be a sort of kumbaya moment. And, and I want us to fight hard over, over management. I think conflict is a good, right?”
Steven Rinella talks with journalist and activist Hal Herring about the past, present, and future of America’s public lands. Connect with Steve https://www.themeateater.com/authors/steven-rinella and The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Steve on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella and Twitter https://twitter.com/stevenrinella?lang=en MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
22,972 words · 6 speakers
Speaker names marked are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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