As ‘Below Deck’ Airs Something Sinister Was Happening Behind The Scenes

Gael and Nathan fell in love onscreen during season 9 of Bravo's hit reality TV show Below Deck Med, airing in 2024; but, as Season 11 airs right now, a lot has happened off screen. Two days after Christmas in 2025, a terrifying assault took place inside an apartment in Sydney’s north-west. New parents Nathan Gallagher and Gael Cameron were arguing when Nathan escalated the fight covering Gael's mouth, suffocating her, and squeezing her neck. Gael eventually broke free and went straight to the police. But just months later, the couple's relationship and their journey into parenthood with their six-month-old son was broadcast to millions of viewers on Bravo's hit reality TV franchise, Below Deck Mediterranean as they returned for season 11. Fans watched their relationship play out on screen, completely unaware of the horrific domestic violence that had already taken place off-camera. Now, 28-year-old Nathan Gallagher is a convicted criminal on the run. With an active warrant for his arrest, NSW Police have warned the public not to approach him as the manhunt continues. LINKS We want to hear from you! Take our quick 3-minute survey for your chance to win a $1,000 gift card. https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/8954679/HF-BUS-2026 If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636. Contact Full Stop Australia https://fullstop.org.au/ on 1800 385 578, 7 days, 24 hours. GET IN TOUCH Follow us on Instagram and TikTok @truecrimeconversations https://www.instagram.com/truecrimeconversations/?hl=en Want us to cover a case on the podcast? Email us at [email protected] mailto:[email protected] or send us a voice note. https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/send-a-podcast-voice-note-467960 MAMAMIA OFFERS: Get access to Very Peri, Mamamia's exclusive perimenopause series, for just $59. 25 world-leading experts, over 20 on-demand sessions, available now. We’ve sorted through the noise so you don't have to. Go toveryperi.com.au http://veryperi.com.au/ today. You hot? Same. Make sure to leave us a rating and review on Apple & Spotify to let us know how you're liking the episodes. CREDITS Host & Executive Producer: Gemma Bath Guests: Lucy Ballenden & Eliza Barr Producer: Ella Maitland Video Editor: Julian Rosario Audio Design: Tegan Sadler Mamamia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we have recorded this podcast. Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Gemma Bath?

  It's two days after Christmas in 2025 at an apartment in Melrose Park in Sydney's North West. An argument has broken out between the couple who lives there, Nathan and Gail, a new parents. Their son Kayden is only six months old. As the shouting escalates, Nathan grabs Gail and covers her mouth and nose with his hand. She's struggling to breathe. Desperate for air, she elbows him in the mouth, but it just angers him more. Next, he goes for her neck and squeezes. Eventually, she breaks free. Hours later, she goes to the police.

• 0:43Gemma Bath?

  In just a few months, the world is about to watch this couple during happier times, navigating new parenthood while filming on the Bravo franchise Below Deck.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  You ready to see daddy?

• 0:55Speaker 02

  How do you balance being a new dad and a boss?

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Oh, really? Exactly.

• 1:01Gemma Bath?

  Only recently did the truth of what happened next emerge. I'm Gemma Bath and you're listening to True Crime Conversations, a podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the most about them. Below Deck is one of American cable TV network Bravo's biggest franchises. It premiered in 2013 and has been on our screens ever since. Below Deck Med, season 11, which features the relationship of Gail Cameron and Nathan Gallagher, premiered in June 2026 to 3.4 million viewers.

• 1:44Gemma Bath?

  It was the third season to feature their relationship. Fast forward to September and 28-year-old Nathan is a convicted criminal who is currently on the run. There is an active warrant for his arrest and New South Wales Police have released his photo via their social media pages and told the public not to approach him. This is an extraordinary story, one where we can literally see the perpetrator and his victims' relationship unfold via reality TV, only to see it all come crashing down in court. The full police facts of the assault are hard to read and depict a prolonged, repeatedly

• 2:27Gemma Bath?

  violent attack that left Gail battered and bruised.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  Definitely started to see a different side to him. History just keeps repeating itself.

• 2:36Gemma Bath?

  Today, we're going to speak to two guests. The Daily Telegraph's Eliza Barr covered this case in court. But first, Mamma Mia writer Lucy Ballenden is a fan of the show. We invited her into the studio to tell us about the storylines that have featured the former couple over the years. Lucy, for those who've never heard of this show, tell us, what is the premise of Below Deck?

• 3:03Speaker 03

  So Below Deck is essentially a reality TV show based on the biggest, most beautiful super yachts all across the world and the crew that work on them. So instead of focusing on the really wealthy guests, it's more of what happens behind the scenes with the crew that involve the stewards, the deckhands, the captain, the chef, and everything that entails as they go on these sort of three-day-long charters with really wealthy, successful guests.

• 3:31Gemma Bath?

  So every few episodes, you would get basically a new batch of guests and we would follow along as the crew served them?

• 3:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. So we see them prepare the boat for the next charter, as we call them on Below Deck. And so then we see them greet the guests as they come on board and everything that happens, it's normally around two to three days that they rent the ship. And so we see the crew serving them meals, turning down their cabins for bedtime, making late-night snacks or cocktails, just everything that you would expect when someone's paying, I assume, hundreds of thousands of dollars to charter this boat. Whatever the guests want, the crew will provide.

• 4:08Gemma Bath?

  But then the reality-esque style side of it is the relationships and the happenings of the crew kind of behind the scenes.

• 4:17Speaker 03

  Exactly. So they're all quite young. I would say everyone in the crew is in their twenties or thirties. So they're split up quite evenly with men and women. So we traditionally see women in the stewardess roles or stewes, as we say, and men in the deckhand roles. So there's quite an even split of men and women. So you can imagine what happens there. Lots of relationships, messy love triangles, and also after every single charter, they'll celebrate with a big night out wherever they are in the world. And that's kind of where we see the most drama unfold.

• 4:49Gemma Bath?

  The perfect recipe for a reality TV show, and it's really popular. And we can tell that because not only is there the original Below Deck, but there's a million spinoffs. So there's, you know, Below Deck Med, Below Deck Sailing, Below Deck Down Under here in Australia, Below Deck Adventure. So it's just one of those series that's really kind of exploded.

• 5:11Speaker 03

  There is so many of them, which I'm only just now realising because I actually started off watching Below Deck Med, which is, as it says in the name, based in the Mediterranean. So we see them move across Greece, Croatia, Italy, all those types of places. But then there's Below Deck Down Under, where we obviously have the Australian branch of the seasons. And then there's the OG Below Deck, which is kind of in the Caribbean and those kind of places closer towards America where it was originally based.

• 5:39Gemma Bath?

  So we're talking about Below Deck Med, right? That is the season that Nathan and Gail were a part of?

• 5:46Speaker 03

  Exactly. So they are both characters that come on board in Below Deck Med, season nine, and that one's based in Greece.

• 5:53Gemma Bath?

  So tell us about this season. Take us through some of the characters and some of the kind of initial storylines when that season started.

• 6:04Speaker 03

  So season nine is where we first meet Gail and Nathan. So they come on board, they're quite fresh. What I love about Below Deck is that we see people work their way up in their career. So the chief stew, Aisha, she is from New Zealand and we see her from right at the beginning of her career as just a regular stew. She's learning the job and then we see her work her way up to the chief stew position. So she is a fan favourite. I think she's in most of the seasons of Below Deck Med because people love her so much. She is just so drama-free. She's everyone's best friend. She's eaten her noodles late at night instead of going out and creating chaos. So Aisha is a huge part of the series. Then obviously we have the captain, who's kind of the level-headed person across the

• 6:47Speaker 03

  series that will just bring everyone back down to earth. She doesn't care for the drama. This is Captain Sandy in Below Deck Med. And she brings everyone back down when they start getting a little bit out of hand.

• 6:58Gemma Bath?

  So how does Gail and Nathan come in? Is Gail a stew?

• 7:04Speaker 03

  So this is interesting because like I said, most women that work on the crew are stewes, but Gail is actually one of the only female deckhands that we see, which means that because Nathan is also a deckhand, they spend a lot of time together. So when you're working on the deck, obviously you're cleaning outside, doing the ropes and the knots and whatever they do on the sailboats, I don't know, I don't work there. But they spend a lot of time together outside. And when we meet them both, Gail actually says in the first episode that she has a boyfriend who she's met on a previous boat that she's worked on. And they've only been together for under a year or so, but given that Nathan was interested in her straight away, this kind of became one of the major storylines of the season.

• 7:46Gemma Bath?

  So what happens? Do they end up getting together on the show?

• 7:50Speaker 03

  It's funny because on one of their first nights out, Gail is chatting to Aisha about how she's worried about how her boyfriend's going to cheat on her. And it's literally probably 15 minutes later in that episode that we see her and Nathan texting about where they can meet, where the cameras can't find them later that night. So I don't know, we don't know exactly what happened that night, but we know later on in the season, they go on another night out together, share a bit of a kiss while she's still with her boyfriend. Nathan, all the while, doesn't really seem to be caring about the fact that she has a boyfriend. He's kind of got that mindset of if even if there's a goalie, doesn't mean you can't score. And it means that he's kind of just pushing her and pushing her to make that decision to break up with her boyfriend, which she eventually does.

• 8:35Speaker 03

  She says that they, so she says that she wants to kind of just focus on what's making her happy and at that moment, it was Nathan. So they're together towards the end of the series and once season nine wraps up, they leave together to go travelling for about six weeks.

• 8:51Gemma Bath?

  It's really interesting because we actually see their relationship start to unfold and you can kind of see their dynamic. How would you describe their dynamic as a couple?

• 9:02Speaker 03

  It is so interesting, especially now, given how we know how their relationship plays out. I've gone back and watched that first season and just thought it would be so interesting to see you meeting your partner for the first time all over again. But it's really fun in the start. They're both seem to be really lovely people. They're really playful together. Obviously, Gail is in that relationship, so it's a little bit tricky and a little bit taboo. But once she breaks up with him and they move into their relationship together, I mean, they have their ups and downs, but it's all just very innocent.

• 9:33Gemma Bath?

  And we should say, she's Australian?

• 9:35Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 9:36Gemma Bath?

  And he's?

• 9:37Speaker 03

  He's Irish.

• 9:38Gemma Bath?

  Irish.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. So you can imagine that once they leave, they're together for around six weeks before they broke up initially because of long distance is what they said, and it just was all going to be too hard.

• 9:51Gemma Bath?

  So the season ends, they go away for a trip and then they break up off camera?

• 9:55Speaker 03

  Yes. So they travel for around six weeks together before we hear reports that they've broken up. We don't see it happen, but we know that long distance gets in between the two of them. And Gail actually said that she witnessed a different side to Nathan, a little bit of anger, stubbornness and immaturity, and that's what led them to their breakup. But once we see him come back on board in season 10, he chats a little bit about it and says that he regrets it, he made a mistake and he wants to get her back. And it's later that season that she comes on board just for a few episodes, kind of a surprise guest situation. And we see him fight for her and they decide they're going to give it another chance.

• 10:35Gemma Bath?

  Right, okay. Because wasn't he in that episode dating other people as well before she got back on board?

• 10:43Speaker 03

  Yes, which is what he says he regrets. He doesn't want to do any more of the boatments, sort of drama, love triangles that we love to watch, but he has his eyes only set on Gail.

• 10:54Gemma Bath?

  It's so bizarre talking to you like this on a crime show. Because it is that bizarre kind of mixture of reality TV and we have all of these storylines of, you know, he said, she said, and the love and the after-work drinks. And then, as you're gonna hear, it turns really dark. But it is so bizarre that we have all of these details about the he said, she said, the Playboy stuff, and then them deciding on camera that they're going to give it another shot.

• 11:25Speaker 03

  The finale of that season is when we discover that they're actually gonna give it another go. And it gives us that 11 months later glimpse into the future, which now we know Gail was actually pregnant with their child.

• 11:38Gemma Bath?

  Can you fill in the gaps there? What happened? So they finished the season. Did they then move as a couple to Australia and have a baby? Or what do we know about what happened in their lives?

• 11:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, so we know that they rekindled and they got back together and went travelling a little bit more. I think that's where they thrived the most as a couple. They tried living in both Ireland and Australia, but they ultimately decided to settle down here in Sydney.

• 11:59Gemma Bath?

  And then while in Australia, they had a baby?

• 12:02Speaker 03

  They did, a little baby boy named Kayden, and he was born in June 2025.

• 12:07Gemma Bath?

  Did they announce that before the show came back? Did we know that information when season 11 started?

• 12:12Speaker 03

  We did, but once season 11 started, we get a little bit more of a glimpse into their family life and how that kind of operates. Because Nathan and Gail, they aren't married, but they're still together. And they're joining each other in parenthood and raising this baby.

• 12:28Gemma Bath?

  Up next, Lucy details how Gail and Nathan's relationship progressed on the show.

• 12:36Speaker 04

  You know the drill. You pick the couch, pay the deposit, then wait 12 weeks praying it matches the living room. Let's skip that. Mamma Mia is giving one lucky subscriber a $5,000 voucher for B2C furniture to spend on pieces that are in stock and ready to ship right now. High-end style, zero weight. To enter, head to mamma mia dot com dot au forward slash subscribe. You'll unlock all our subscriber-only podcasts, articles, and our fitness app, Move. Already subscribed? You're already in the running. Offer ends October 31st. T's and C's apply.

• 13:14Gemma Bath?

  So season 11 starts with Nathan on the show as bosun, which is kind of like head. I'm not very good at boat talk either, but he's in charge of all the deckhands.

• 13:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 13:26Gemma Bath?

  And Gail is there with the newborn baby on land. And we're following their relationship, basically raising this baby while he's at work on the ship.

• 13:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's really interesting because I don't feel like we've seen this much into anyone from the cast's personal lives, like they've shown with Nathan and Gail. I feel like there's a running storyline of Aisha and her fiance Scott, but we never meet him. We don't really see what their relationship is like together. So given that Nathan and Gail have met on board, they continue with this into season 11. And Gail, so Nathan comes on board as bosun, as you said. Gail isn't working on the ship. Naturally, she needs to take care of Kayden. But she decides that she's gonna join him in Croatia. She rents an Airbnb in Dubrovnik, and she's staying there with Kayden by herself, so with no help. And the plan is kind of for Nathan to work the charters

• 14:21Speaker 03

  and then come home and stay in the Airbnb on their days off, which are quite fleeting.

• 14:26Gemma Bath?

  So how does that go?

• 14:27Speaker 03

  It doesn't go well. It doesn't go well, which, can you blame her? I just feel like this wouldn't have been easy at all. She had no help, like we said. Even if she was in Australia, she wouldn't have been with Nathan, which obviously would be hard. But we know that she has a support system. But it's just Gail and Kayden staying in the Airbnb. So we kind of see a little bit behind the scenes of their texts and calls. We see sort of some late-night shots at the Airbnb where Nathan and Gail are having these discussions. And she's struggling and she needs help, but he's gotta work, he's gotta be on the boat. He can't come back to the Airbnb every night in case something happens. Especially now, being bosun, he has a lot, he has a lot more of a status on board.

• 15:13Speaker 03

  So Gail ultimately says a few episodes in that she wants Nathan to decide whether he continues to work on the ship or if he comes home with her and Kayden. She's really upset.

• 15:25Gemma Bath?

  In any of those discussions, do we see any kind of violence or aggression or anything like that?

• 15:33Speaker 03

  No, not in particular. It's clear that Nathan's quite upset and stressed. It starts to affect his work performance on the show. And Captain Sandy has to pull him to the side and say, look, obviously, this is difficult, what you're going through. But I think that we had to take this into account before you decided to come on board this season. So you can tell that he's getting really upset, but no violence.

• 15:59Gemma Bath?

  Obviously, this season is still, it's still happening now. Episodes are still kind of being rolled out as we speak and as this episode comes out. And then, at the same time, we have these allegations and now conviction of domestic violence against Nathan. What's it like for you as a viewer, watching these episodes, now knowing what transpires?

• 16:24Speaker 03

  It's really confronting because, especially because Nathan's brand was always the friendly bosun. I think, you know, he made some mistakes dating Gail while she was in a relationship. But he came on board with this new sense of responsibility. We saw him become a father. We see him with his child. And so obviously now hearing this is really just disappointing in general.

• 16:49Gemma Bath?

  Is it gonna stop you from watching the show, do you think?

• 16:53Speaker 03

  I think that that all depends on how the network reacts. Obviously, this would be as much of a shock to them as it is for us, the audience, I can only assume. But Bravo have come out and said that they're not planning to work with Nathan at all in the future. But they're not gonna be cutting him from the current season. So it's definitely making you, it makes you watch it with a bit of a different lens, knowing what we know now. But the show itself is still great. It can continue without Nathan, so I would continue to watch, yeah.

• 17:28Gemma Bath?

  Well, let's tell me about when this story first came across your desk.

• 17:33Speaker 05

  So last week, Rolling Stone exclusively revealed that Nathan Gallagher was facing a number of charges in respect of an incident. And they did identify at the time that there was an associated apprehended domestic violence order for the protection of Gail Cameron, but didn't go as far as to confirm that she was the complainant in the criminal case as well, because the two things are legally dealt with separately. So one may proceed and the other may not, vice versa, and both can proceed as well. So because I'm a specialist court reporter, I did the investigations to confirm that she was in fact the complainant in the case, as well as the protected person in the ADBO. And just got more of the details from there.

• 18:17Speaker 05

  And then we went to court for the scheduled hearing, which was only a few days after that story initially broke.

• 18:23Gemma Bath?

  So as soon as that story started to unfold for you and you pieced that together, could you have sensed how big this story was going to become?

• 18:32Speaker 05

  I think it's always difficult to know on a surface level because charges can mean a number of things. Common assault, for example, is one of the charges that was laid against Nathan. And that charge can be anything as comparatively minor, not to diminish the seriousness of any assault charge, but it can be as minor as just putting a hand on someone without their consent. So it's, it's always hard to know until you've seen and heard more of the information to know how serious it's going to be. So to be honest, I was fairly guarded about my expectations. I think the thing that did make me think that it might be quite serious was some of the bail conditions that I was able to find out in the course of looking for more details on the story.

• 19:17Speaker 05

  It was explicitly part of his bail conditions that he was not allowed to look for Gail at all, that he wasn't allowed to be within a certain distance of her. So there were a number of conditions there that did flag to me that it could be some degree of seriousness, but I really didn't know until I ultimately went to court for the day of the hearing.

• 19:37Gemma Bath?

  What did you know in that initial reporting that you did about the allegations? Did you know the charges or anything about what had happened?

• 19:46Speaker 05

  All we knew was the charges at the time. So it was common assault, assault causing actual bodily harm, which indicates a certain level of injury and the intentional choking charge. We knew the bail conditions and New South Wales Police issued a very brief statement that indicated that it had unfolded at a residence that they were both at in Sydney's northwestern suburbs. And that was about as much as we could know. And it also said that there were no serious injuries in that initial statement as well.

• 20:17Gemma Bath?

  Did you know that he'd spent the night in prison or in custody?

• 20:21Speaker 05

  That was something that I had to find out as part of my inquiries with the court system. I discovered that he'd been charged on the 27th hours after it had all unfolded in the very early hours of that day and that he didn't face court until the next day. So these things can be quite routine. It's not, it's not a form of punishment or it's not a form of Uh, in- indicating whether the court thinks somebody is guilty or not. It's just if you are at a certain point in the queue, and particularly in that holiday period, when not all of the judges are in court and not all of the normal courts are are sitting in that Christmas, New Year period. It's quite normal that even if you've been brought into custody at midday that day,

• 21:06Speaker 05

  that you may not get out until the next day. So it's, i- it was surprising in some ways because it indicated to me that there was a level of seriousness that the police thought that they needed to refuse bail and ask a court to make a determination on it. But it, it didn't necessarily say anything to me about how gravely serious it was at a very high end.

• 21:26Gemma Bath?

  I am interested, though, that those bail conditions piqued your interest. Is that unusual in your experience reporting in our court systems for domestic violence charges to have those specific conditions involved?

• 21:39Speaker 05

  So there are often standard conditions which can mirror the standard conditions in an apprehended domestic violence order. So every time an ADVO is laid, there are certain conditions such as the person who is in need of protection, the, the person that the order is made against is not allowed to assault, stalk, threaten, harass them or intimidate them or do any damage to any of their property or any animals that they own. So some of those conditions are quite standard. I thought adding in a particular condition that he wasn't to look for her was unusual compared to other domestic violence cases that I have covered or other alleged domestic violence charges that have been laid.

• 22:24Gemma Bath?

  When your initial stories broke, how did they go for the Daily Telegraph?

• 22:30Speaker 05

  So a- again, one of the things that we did in our reporting, and again, all credit to the, to Rolling Stone Australia, they broke the story, they had it first. But there were a lot of details that I was able to independently confirm that weren't there. They didn't know what his pleas were at the time, they didn't know who the complainant was, or if they did, they hadn't said that. So I, I knew that he had pleaded not guilty because he was planning to fight the charges at a defended hearing, which is what was meant to transpire last Tuesday at Berwood Local Court. So what subsequently transpired at court is actually nothing to do with Nathan changing his mind and making an admission of guilt.

• 23:14Speaker 05

  And that's some of the misinformation that has been going around, that he pleaded guilty, that he changed his mind. That is not the case. As far as the court is concerned, he has pleaded not guilty. He had intended to defend those charges. He had intended to presumably bring evidence or to, to say why he disagrees with what the police had alleged against him. That's his position as far as we know. The decision to convict him in his absence has nothing to do with the change in his pleas at all.

• 23:45Gemma Bath?

  Have you noticed a lot of misinformation surrounding this story? And is that unusual to see at, at this scale?

• 23:52Speaker 05

  I have seen an extraordinary amount of misinformation around the case and it concerns me as a specialist legal affairs and courts reporter because it doesn't help anyone, it certainly doesn't help Gail and it doesn't help the situation at large. These are the, the bare facts of what occurred on Tuesday. There was a scheduled hearing where Nathan had pleaded not guilty to all three of the charges and he had intended to defend them. He didn't appear at court and the court heard information from the police prosecutor, which he had himself obtained from the Australian Border Force, which indicated that he was offshore, not in the country. And under his bail conditions, that wasn't actually prohibited.

• 24:33Speaker 05

  There were no bail conditions that prevented him from leaving the country or not being in Sydney or reporting to police or not using his passport. None of those conditions were actually in place. So he hasn't actually done anything wrong in that sense. But the decision not to come to court has triggered the police entitlement to apply for a conviction in his absence. So he was, you know, they, they argue that he was aware that he was meant to be in court, that he should have been in court. And they have the right to ask the court to convict him in his absence. And then the judge has to make a decision as to whether they will do that or not.

• 25:15Speaker 05

  Judge Lacy, she looked at the document that police prepared that has all of the allegations about what was said to have occurred that night, which is Nathan's right to dispute at a hearing where he defends the charges. And she said that she was satisfied that the charges had been proven on the basis of the document that police had provided. She opted to convict him in his absence, irrespective of and separate to his previous denial of the charges, the two things can coexist, and subsequently issued a bench warrant. Now, that bench warrant empowers police to, if they find where Nathan is at some

• 25:58Speaker 05

  point, if he returns to the jurisdiction, to arrest him and to bring him before the court because he hasn't been sentenced yet. He's been found guilty in his absence, he's been convicted in his absence, there's no sentence and that would be the next step for a court. However, he has options as well. Legally, he could get a representative again and he could offer some sort of reason why he wasn't able to attend court on that occasion and he could ask for the conviction made in his absence to be annulled. So what happens going forward is actually anybody's guess because the court has issued a warrant, but he also has legal options in terms of how he may decide to deal with

• 26:43Speaker 05

  it at some point in the future, if and or when he returns to the jurisdiction. And there is a lot of misinformation going about what happened that day as well. People saying, oh, Gail brought more evidence to court, oh, these things changed. None of that is true. The police act on Gail's behalf in this jurisdiction as she is the complainant in a domestic violence case. So she doesn't have to bring material unless they ask her to if they think it would assist. She doesn't have to get a lawyer, the police do all of that. So all of these claims that, oh, new evidence came to light, no, this is the information that has been there this entire time and it becomes available to us as the media because of the conviction in his absence. So we can apply for those documents and we can see them and that's how we know the details that we know now.

• 27:28Gemma Bath?

  You were also in court, so you saw everything that happened.

• 27:31Speaker 05

  That's right. I saw all of this unfold and it's, it's exactly as I said it and there's a, a lot of misinformation. I think that's probably because there is so much interest, that the Bravo verse is huge in entertainment. It's got viewers and fans all around the world and plenty of people that, notwithstanding not being experts in the Australian legal system, not being experts in the legal system anywhere in general. But I was there, that's what occurred from top to bottom. He was going to defend the charges, he didn't turn up at court, he was convicted in his absence, there is a warrant to bring him to court to be dealt with.

• 28:16Speaker 05

  And that is really all that can be said about where the legal process is up to at this point. It's sort of hanging in midair at the moment until he potentially returns to the jurisdiction at some point in the future.

• 28:30Gemma Bath?

  Did we get in that court proceeding, however, some more details about the allegations? Did the police detail those and can you tell us about them?

• 28:41Speaker 05

  So these weren't things that were heard in court. Judge Lacy did say a few things about finding the allegations to be objectively very serious. But as I said, that document of police facts, it's, it's called, we, we usually refer to it as the document of police allegations until such time as it's found to be proven or not. Document of police facts, that's a document that typically becomes available to media to apply for, to view and to report on at certain points in an unfolding criminal case. And that can be when someone pleads guilty or when someone is found guilty in their absence, which is what occurred that day. So we were able to apply for that document and to view it.

• 29:23Speaker 05

  And I, I, I reported on many of the details and many of them are out in the public realm now, but it is, it's really distressing. And a- as I said, you, you never really know when you're just basing it on charges alone, how serious it's going to be. But reading it was deeply upsetting. And I mean, all domestic violence is typically speaking, but multiple references to Gail alleging that Nathan has covered her face, her nose and her mouth so that she couldn't breathe and putting pressure on her neck so that she couldn't breathe. That's, that's among the most serious material that's in that document of police facts.

• 30:02Gemma Bath?

  Is it unusual for a judge to decide to convict someone in their absence?

• 30:08Speaker 05

  No, this is quite routine. People who are supposed to be in court and the judge is satisfied that they were aware that they were meant to be in court. And this can also apply where someone has pleaded guilty and not shown up for their sentence or when they've pleaded not guilty and hasn't, they haven't shown up for their scheduled defended hearing. It, it's relatively common, it's not particularly specific to Nathan's case or any case like this. It's a, it's a legal mechanism that can be enacted upon the application of police or upon the judge's own motion if he or she thinks that that was the, the right move to make in those circumstances.

• 30:49Gemma Bath?

  What kind of sentence can we expect for this conviction?

• 30:53Speaker 05

  It's almost completely impossible to speculate on something like that. Every judge is different and every situation is different because there are objective factors to weigh up, such as the, the bare facts of the case and also subjective factors which go to what was going on for the offender at the time that all of these things occurred. It would be a- absolutely impossible to broadly guess from non-conviction all the way up to terms of imprisonment. That can also be served in prison or out in the community, depending on the kind of order that's made. It, it's impossible to speculate. The only thing that can be said is that in the local court jurisdiction, any sentence

• 31:37Speaker 05

  is capped at three years for multiple offences. So that could be a three-year bond or a three-year prison term. And that's, that's the upper limit, but that's within that there are a multitude of options that could be available and it's all contingent on. If and or when he returns to the jurisdiction, if and or when he seeks to have the charges potentially, or the convictions potentially annulled, or whether he opts to be sentenced. There are so many variables, it's absolutely impossible to say.

• 32:12Gemma Bath?

  We know that Gail was in court and you said that, you know, the Police Act or the Prosecution Act on her behalf. Did she say anything after court? Was there any demeanour from her that you noticed while there?

• 32:26Speaker 05

  These are some of the hardest cases to cover because when it's so personal, to identify the alleged perpetrator is essentially inevitably to identify the victim as well. And as reporters, I can't speak for everyone, for myself, being responsible and ethical in the way that I approach people who have been put in terrible situations is paramount to me. So I did speak to her briefly outside court. I just said, this has been a really difficult day. We don't want to turn this into a circus. Is there anything that you would like to say?

• 33:11Speaker 05

  And she said, not at the moment. And that was, that was the end of it. And she has issued a statement on social media since then,

• 33:19Speaker 05

  speaking to what's unfolded over the past few days, but she didn't speak in court.

• 33:25Gemma Bath?

  And that statement on social media basically just thanked everyone for support, didn't it?

• 33:30Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 33:30Gemma Bath?

  Yeah. What about Nathan? Have we heard anything from him?

• 33:34Speaker 05

  I have seen that he gave a statement to Rolling Stone last week in which he seemed to broadly reiterate that he denied the allegations against him. As far as I'm aware, we haven't seen or heard anything from him since. New South Wales Police are certainly proactively looking for him. They put his mugshot out on social media and publicised that warrant to have him brought before a court.

• 34:02Speaker 05

  I don't believe we've heard anything else from him since then.

• 34:06Gemma Bath?

  Coming up, Eliza talks about where police think Nathan is now. I found the wording interesting, he's believed to be offshore. What does that mean? He's in another country? He's in international waters?

• 34:21Speaker 05

  It's, yes, the terminology offshore is a little bit unusual to me. So I couldn't speculate as to what it means. All they said was that there was a specific immigration task force within the Australian Border Force that had identified that he was offshore. And they didn't clarify any further beyond that, what that could mean.

• 34:46Gemma Bath?

  But for someone in his position, what does life look like? Does this mean he's on the run? Or once you're in a different country, can you effectively live your life?

• 34:56Speaker 05

  I would have to speculate that it would be fairly difficult for Nathan at the moment on the basis that it's public knowledge now that he's facing a bench warrant in Australia. And it's been reported by the Irish newspaper, the Donegal Daily, that he is also facing a bench warrant for quite a dated alleged assault matter in Ireland as well. I couldn't speculate as to where he is. I couldn't speculate as to whether being on the run is accurate terminology.

• 35:33Gemma Bath?

  Yep.

• 35:33Speaker 05

  All we know is what we heard in court, which is that they don't believe he's in Australia. Where he is and what he's doing is impossible for me to know at the moment.

• 35:42Gemma Bath?

  But he's pretty recognisable at this point.

• 35:44Speaker 05

  Yes, and the New South Wales Police have put his measurements and full physical description out there in the world. So if anyone was wondering, I think it would be fairly easy to narrow down, but.

• 35:56Gemma Bath?

  Just to ask you about those Irish allegations, were they also against an intimate partner?

• 36:01Speaker 05

  Not to my understanding. I believe the allegations pertain to something that could be broadly described as a pub brawl.

• 36:10Gemma Bath?

  You've written quite a few articles about this story now as it continues to unfold. And they've been going particularly well, haven't they?

• 36:20Speaker 05

  Yes, we've had a lot of eyes on them and it's certainly one of the most viewed stories and accompanying social media videos that I've done in recent weeks at least. It's, I think the celebrity factor is inevitably part of it when there's so many people

• 36:41Speaker 05

  all around the world who know who these people are and have been watching them for multiple years on television. Inherently, it's going to draw more interest than the garden variety person from your local neighbourhood that doesn't have that same level of global recognition. So I can't imagine how difficult it would be to be in Gail's position where so much of her personal life is playing out in this way. And that's, that is unfortunately the way that it is. That's as soon as you're in the public eye, so much of what happens in your personal life, it is, it is and it does get out there. And that's really tough.

• 37:24Speaker 05

  But I think the interest is unfortunately quite natural. It's, we know this, it's pop culture, it's celebrity, it's entertainment, it's gossip. This is what people are interested in. And when people inherently know who's involved, I think they're always going to be more interested in the outcome. And I think particularly because the outcome has been arguably quite explosive. There's a warrant, nobody knows where he is. He's not in the country anymore. And the allegations themselves did turn out to be incredibly serious. So I think it's, it's just human nature for people to be really interested in it and what will unfold in the future as well.

• 38:06Gemma Bath?

  Well, we'll all be watching to see what happens. And hopefully Nathan is put before the court so that, you know, Gail can move on and all of this can be put to bed. Thank you so much for joining us.

• 38:18Speaker 05

  Thank you for having me.

• 38:20Gemma Bath?

  Thank you to Lucy and Eliza for joining us on this episode. Make sure you're following our show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify for updates on this story and all the stories we cover. Thanks so much for listening. I'll be back next week with another True Crime Conversation.