Herodotus, Father of Tangents, Asides, and Digressions (Herodotus' The Histories Bk 1, Part 1)

Come one, come all to a new episode exploring the wonders that is Herodotus' The Histories! Today Michaela takes on an adventure into the beginnings of the first history text from Greek antiquity. What was going on at the beginning of the Persian Wars, will we even get to the Persian Wars, and how many tangents does the father of history go on! Submit your question for the next Q&A via email http://mythsbaby.com/questions or a voice note https://www.speakpipe.com/LTAMB. Get ad-free episodes and so, so much more, by subscribing to the Oracle Edition at patreon.com/mythsbaby http://patreon.com/mythsbaby CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. I try to provide direct warnings when there is reference to anything with overtly traumatic themes but be aware that Greek mythology regularly features assault, death, and many other potentially triggering events. Sources: Herodotus' The Histories translated by Tom Holland. Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here:mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions http://mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions. Learn more about Liv's next group trips https://travelbugxlivalbert.my.canva.site/ to GREECE! Application deadline is November 30 (Subject to change due to demand). Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Liv Albert?

  Hey nerds, really quick note from me. I want to tell you that we now have the applications open for the next set of listener group trips. This is us going back to the original, the trips that we have held in the past that have been so much fun, so successful and pretty affordable in terms of wandering around Greece with a bunch of nerds. So check out the details and get your applications in at mythsbaby.com/groups.

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• 1:55Liv Albert?

  Hello, hello, all you lovely listeners. This is Let's Talk About Myths, baby. And, um...

• 2:06Speaker 03

  This is Not Live. Hi, it's Michaela, your wonderful Hermes, here to bring you some fun news stories adjacent to what we have discussed on the podcast before. That's right, I'm bringing you all a little taste of history. And for the next couple of episodes, you and I are going to explore the first book of Herodotus's Histories. Yeah, buddy, we are getting into history today. I know you probably all know who Herodotus is, the so-called father of history, but we can do some quick, quick context, like seriously quick. I don't want to spend too much time explaining him. I want to show you the wildness that is Herodotus. So, Herodotus lived during the 5th century,

• 2:48Speaker 03

  born in Halicarnassus, and he truly traveled all over the place. Likely spent a good amount of time in Athens, traveled all around mainland Greece, the islands, Asia Minor, or the west coast of modern Turkey, that's what we mean when we say Asia Minor, even North Africa. Towards the end of his life, he made his way to Magna Gracia, where he eventually met his end in Thuri, in southern Italy. He writes about the Persian Wars, as we will eventually see, but the way he does his research is a little different. You see, while he was traveling around, he was talking to people and hearing what they believe or know about these wars. He was alive during the end

• 3:30Speaker 03

  bit of it all, but far too young to remember it himself or to grasp what was going on. So, instead, he relies on everybody else to get his information. He compiles it all together and boom, that's how we have Histories. You'll see. I also would like you all to know that I am presenting you this history as Herodotus tells it himself. We are following the same narrative. I will not be changing the course of events as told to make it more linear, because quite frankly, it wouldn't be Herodotus without a tangent, or 20. So, let's get into it.

• 4:20Speaker 03

  Herodotus, father of tangents, asides, and digressions. The Histories, Book One, Part One.

• 4:41Speaker 03

  We start our story with a thesis statement. Seriously, I mean, you are all familiar with this if you've read or listened to Liv's retellings of the Iliad or the Odyssey. Sing, Muse, of a complicated man. Well, sing, Herodotus, of a winding history. "Herodotu Halaecarnasseos Histories Apodexis Heide, Hoss mete gita genomana ex Anthropon Tojone Exitela Genetai. Mete erga megalate khaithomasta, tamen leisi, tamen barbaroiisi, apodex tenta.

• 5:21Speaker 03

  Aklea, aklea genetai, te taalakhae dien aitin, epo lemesan alioisi." Basically, "Hi, this is Herodotus of Halaecarnassus, and this is the results of my inquiries into the wonderful things that man has done. Not only the Greeks, but, but also the barbarians, so that it shall never be lost to time. Also about other things, and the other things are important, and about the war between the two, the two being the Greeks and the barbarians. And when they say barbarians, they mean Persians and the assistants. That's who he's talking about. Anyways, we love a thesis statement.

• 6:05Speaker 03

  He moves on then to the beginning of the conflict. "No, no, no, not when the war actually started. Don't be silly. Don't you know that wars don't start just because of one event? Not to spit on the name of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, but there's usually, always, a long history of events before the inciting incident. And that is definitely true of the Greeks and the Persians, and each of these events are absolutely true and likely, in no way based in myth, of course. Why would you think that?"

• 6:35Speaker 03

  Well, it starts with an abduction, a kidnapping, a seizure of a series of women. Because of course, first, as we are told by the Persians, "The Phoenicians came along and set up camp on the land. They were wonderful seamen and loved a good naval economy, so they sailed around the Med to peddle their wares. While doing this, they made their way to Argos, because, don't you know, Argos was the best of cities during these ancient times. And while there, some of the women were down at the docks perusing their goods. One of these women was Io, the daughter of the Argive king. The Phoenicians proceeded to snatch her up, throw her on the ship, and sailed off to Egypt. 'Twas the first of

• 7:18Speaker 03

  the crimes.'" And isn't it interesting how myth always makes its way into the narrative? It's that funny Greek thing where their stories weren't just stories, but also there are actual history in their minds. Next, it was the Greeks' turns, to be gross. "A group of them, likely Cretans, says Herodotus, makes their way to Tir, and while there, commits another snatching, and gets the Tirian king's daughter Europa. Wild! You mean that Europa who, who found her way to Crete on the back of a bull? Certainly not. But also, a second crime. But they didn't stop there. No, no, no. The Greeks sailed on to Colchis, and while in Colchis, they snatched another princess. None other than our favorite

• 8:01Speaker 03

  child killer, Medea. Supposedly, the king, her father, sent a messenger, asking for not only the return of his daughter, but also compensation for the inconvenience. This is just the way things go, buds. Sorry, the Greeks said no, because they got no compensation for the seizure of Io." Finally, we make it to the final of the women snatching. Not the end of the horrors, though, just the end of the women being snatched. See, a generation had gone by, and now we are at Troy, where Priam's son, the great and idiotic Paris, decides he, and I, quote, "Might as well steal a Greek wife for himself." So off he trots to Sparta and snatches up Helen, because there's been no consequences for the seizure of women up until this point,

• 8:46Speaker 03

  so why would they start now? The conses were quenched, my friends. And thus, we have the start of the hostility between the Persians and the Greeks. Apparently, and this is good to know, the Persians did believe that seizing women was horrid. But that if it happened, you shouldn't be that bothered. Or get as bothered as the Greeks did, you know, starting a whole ten-year war if she was seized. Because, you know what, if she was taken, she probably wanted it. It actually says that, like, I'm not really paraphrasing. Isn't that fun? Also, I get to have my own tangent to something, you know, a little philological.

• 9:27Speaker 03

  The verb used for the seizing, the snatching, the kidnapping, was harpatzo. And you see, I mean, I don't think this is a complicated verb. But it's also the whole rapere argument all over again, right? So rapere is to seize, to snatch, to grab in Latin. It is also the root word for the word rape.

• 9:52Speaker 03

  So harpatzo can mean to seize, capture, plunder, abduct. And yes, rapere means to seize at its base level. But, and this is super important, there is subtext to these words. And it is absolutely that if a person was rapere'd, if a person was harpatz'd, that there was some sort of violence committed against them. And that violence, because these words appear when we talk about the seizure of women, that violence was sexual in nature. So no, rapere doesn't directly translate to rape.

• 10:35Speaker 03

  But it does in every other way possible, and that is the same with the word harpatzo. The context is that each of these princesses were kidnapped. And they were also sexually assaulted. I'm also translating a bit of the first book of Herodotus right now for class. And I had to seriously pause when I got to this verb, harpatzo, appeared as a participle.

• 11:01Speaker 03

  Because I could not think of a word in English that tracks onto it in the same way. The English is the problem here. We do not have a word with the same subtext. We have two different words that are not quite synonymous. But that's not the case for these ancient languages. Rapere and our patso are two words that have no good or easy English translation. However, they absolutely mean when describing a person used with a person, especially a woman. They do absolutely one hundred percent imply that a sexual assault has happened.

• 11:43Speaker 03

  To put it bluntly, and here we get a bit of Liv's voice because she so lovingly looked over my script before I recorded this for y'all. I was nervous. I wanted it to be good, so I needed her to check. And also because Liv loves to use the heaviest of hands with such topics. Every mythological, and in this case pseudo-historical instance of women being forcefully abducted like this carries the inherent implication that sexual violence occurred. There's no longer, this is, it's no longer clear in translation and in English because we've lost one important piece of the puzzle. That women were property. Their bodies were property.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  When women were abducted, either literally or symbolically, like these mythologized histories of herodotus, their bodies were stolen from the men who owned them. And those bodies almost certainly damaged in some way because the crime was theft and damage of property, not kidnapping of a human. But let's move on to other things. Okay. So now we've made our way to Asia Minor, the coast, the west coast of modern Turkey. And we are definitely going to understand more of how the Persian War started, right? Well, of course, because now we meet Croesus, who was the king of the Lydian people and others around the area. Yay! History!

• 13:07Speaker 03

  Apparently, he was the first non-Greek to be good friends to the Greeks, so, you know, that's something. Alright, so, huh, let's get into talking about Croesus. Oh, wait, oh, oh, no, no, no. Oh, oh, okay, now, here's the first of our tangents. Okay, let's actually talk about the Lydian Empire, and how it came to be ruled by Croesus's bloodline instead. Succinct and well-edited, Herodotus was not. So, Lydia had been ruled by the Heracles originally. And we are given a quick explanation of the various kings leading up to the one we are concerned about, Candalus. Candalus, he was obsessed with his wife.

• 13:49Speaker 03

  Seriously, like, thought she was the most beautiful woman to ever grace the earth. And he really wanted to prove this to the world. So, one day, he goes to his good friend and bodyguard Giggus, and he says, hey, hey, hey, Giggus, my wife, you, you know, my wife, she is so fucking hot, you wouldn't even believe it. And Giggus says, yes, Candalus, your wife is very, very hot. Candalus continues, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you have to say that, but I want to prove it to you. So, so, you need to see her naked, so you can truly know just how hot she is. And Giggus, God bless his soul, says, no, dude,

• 14:32Speaker 03

  dude, that's weird. I have eyes already and can see she is a very fine woman. I do not need to see her naked. Why are you being so weird about this? And Candalus, god damn his soul, goes, no, no, no, there's no way you can understand how hot she is without seeing her naked. So this is what we're gonna do tonight. Before my wife comes to bed, we're going to hide you in our room, right where she undresses. I'll go to bed and she'll come in and get undressed, then come to bed, and then you can truly understand just how hot this woman is. Giggus wants to say no, because he actually thinks this is really fucked up, but how do you say no to your king without losing your head?

• 15:15Speaker 03

  I mean, you could just lose your head and say no, but of course, that isn't what's going to happen. So he does it. Candalus hides him, she comes in, Giggus sees her naked. But she, and she is unnamed in all of this, not surprising. She sees Giggus hiding and keeps her cool. The next day, she calls Giggus to her and says to him, "So what in the ever-loving fuck were you doing in my room? I know this is my husband's doing, he's a stupid man. So you two have two options, Giggus. You can lose your head right now. Or we can play a similar trick. And tonight, you will hide in our room. And once Kandalus falls asleep, you can come in and remove his head. Someone is going to die who has seen me.

• 16:01Speaker 03

  You or him." Love her. Giggus is torn. He doesn't want any of this to happen, especially since he truly did not want this to happen in the first place. He cries, he pleads, he begs for any other option, but she won't be moved. Someone is going to lose their head. So it's Kandalus. And the events as she demands them happens. She and Giggus marry, and he is now ruling over the empire. People weren't very happy about the turn of events, but they agreed that if the oracle, you know, the Delphic oracle, was okay with it, they would live with it. The Delphic oracle says, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is fine. But just so you know, within five generations, the Heracles will get vengeance." Giggus says, "Okay."

• 16:46Speaker 03

  He's not bothered, and now he has strong rule over Lydia.

• 16:51Speaker 03

  Great. Uh, so now Creuses' ancestors are on the throne. Suddenly, we're getting back to him now. Now? Now, okay, um, great, um, we are continuing with the tangent. Great, so Giggus immediately takes up the time-honored tradition of attacking Myletus. And Smyrna's, Smyrna's attacked too. These are two Greek city-states that were also on the western coast of modern-day Turkey. You know, Asia Minor. I don't know why we classicists have other names for things, we just do. Don't worry about it. He attacks Myletus and Smyrna, and then he dies. And his son Artus continues the attack. Inherited, some could say.

• 17:34Speaker 03

  After Artis, his son Sariatus keeps attacking Myletus. Yikes, poor Myletus. Certainly he'll get better with Sariatus's son Aliatus, right? Nope, nope, Aliatus is still attacking Myletus. Herodotus tells us that Aliatus's strategy was to attack just as the crops were ready to be plucked. He told his men, "Do not go for the houses or the settlements, only the crops. Once we seize them, they must still have a place to live, but first, we shall starve them out of this conflict." This went on for a whole twelve years. And in the twelfth year, a strong wind blew the fire from the crops in it,

• 18:17Speaker 03

  and it hits the temple of Athena, which promptly burned to the ground.

• 18:22Speaker 03

  Aliatus was ill during this and wanted this conflict to be over. So he sent a delegation to Delphi to ask the oracle for help. She, she would not see the delegation, since the temple of Athena had been burned down, and that was like, a big deal. Periander, who was a good friend of Aliatus's, heard about this and sent someone off to let Aliatus know. Aliatus was disturbed, because, "Oh, God, you didn't want the guards to not be on your side." And so he immediately sends a herald to Myletus, hoping to get a truce with them, but only until the temple was rebuilt. Thrasibulus, sorry, I'm gonna say that again, 'cause I want to.

• 19:07Speaker 03

  Thrasibulus, anyways, he was the ruler of Myletus. He heard about this messenger and decided to play a little trick. He ordered that the city's storerooms be emptied and a large feast be made. He wanted all the Mylesians to be together, reveling and eating and partying it up for when the herald arrived. They did this as the messenger came into the city, and on returning to, Aliatus informed him of all goings on within Myletus. They weren't starving, they had enough resources that they could part it up in the middle of the day on a Thursday. Just kidding, I don't know what day it was, but you know, the vibe is there. Aliatus was horrified, how the hell was he supposed to keep this conflict going if the Mylesians were doing so well? Fuck it, just make a truce and end this stupid war.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  He also funded the building of not one, but two new temples to Athena. Because don't piss off the gods.

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• 22:02Speaker 03

  Great, so now we're gonna get to Chrysus, right? Oh, fucking Christ. No, no, another tangent. Back to Periander. You remember Periander, I just mentioned him. Well, Periandel, while also being a good friend of Alyattes, was also the tyrant of Corinth. And it was during the reign of Periander that we get the fun little story of Arian of Methima. You see, Arian was by far the best musician of the time, supposedly composing the first Ithorram, and decided that he went to do his own little tour of Italy, and headed over to southern Italy and Sicily. He does this, makes a fuck-ton of money, and then has to find a way home from the town of Torrentum. He finds a Corinthian ship and goes, "Hey, hey, those are my people.

• 22:47Speaker 03

  Surely they will give me and my large swaths of wealth safe passage back home to the court of Periander." He makes his way onto the ship and off they sail. The sailors, however, are all aware of just how much wealth Arian has made while in Italy and decided that they would rather have it for themselves. They told him that he could either kill himself now, and you know, be buried on land when they get there, or just jump overboard. Arian begs, "Oh my god, please, not me and not my money. What if I play you a nice song, a pretty song? Would that make it better? I'll put on my nice clothes," and they say, "No. No, we, we just want your money. Please care yourself." So Arian proceeds to jump overboard in his pretty clothes

• 23:32Speaker 03

  and clutching his lyre after singing a hymn to Apollo. The sailors trot off and Arian is left in the middle of the Mediterranean when suddenly a dolphin appears and whisking him up carries him off to Corinth, where he immediately heads to Periander's court to tell him what happened. Because, obviously, Herodotus deals only in 100% accurate, real history and definitely never mythologizes his stories. Nope, nope, not at all. Periander is horrified that this would happen to his dear friend Arian and tells him to go off and hide, get comfortable and warm after such a traumatic event. The sailors will surely arrive soon, and we can find out the truth of it all.

• 24:13Speaker 03

  And the sailors arrive. Periander asked them if they have any news of Arian, to which they replied, "No, no, no. Last we heard about Arian, he was off in Trentum, playing his music and making money." "Interesting," says Periander, "because Arian showed up here just a bit ago." And out walks Arian, and the sailors, as if seeing a ghost, all word vomit out the truth. Apparently, this is why at the temple in Tanaram, is that how you say it? Tanaram, sure, it's in the southern Peloponnese. Apparently there, there is a small bronze statue of a man on a dolphin. That's the entirety of this tangent. I, I don't know why he needed to include it, but yeah, it's herodotus.

• 24:58Speaker 03

  Great. So back to Alyattas, I guess. So, uh, what happens next? Oh, he dies. Great. He dies and he was succeeded by none other than Croesus. Wow! We made our way back. Croesus goes on to attack various parts of Asia Minor and eventually amasses himself quite the land empire, quite the power and wealth for himself. There's a lot of shipbuilding and land wars and horses and look, okay, he amasses an empire, okay? It was so much about just amassing empire and land and I just, I just don't care that much. He got an empire, right? And because his kingdom was booming, lots of people loved to come and visit him. Included in this was Solon, that guy who made a new constitution for Athens.

• 25:41Speaker 03

  See, he left Athens after declaring the new rules. He said that he just wanted to travel, but in reality, he knew that if he stayed in Athens, he would be forced to change the rules and since they couldn't do that without him, and he really wanted them to give the new rules a try, he left. While he was there with Croesus, he, Croesus decided to ask him a fun little question. Who is the happiest of men? Certainly, it will be Croesus, what with all his amazing wealth and wonders. Solon stops and thinks for a moment and then replies, this Athenian named Tellus. Croesus has taken it back. Some guy, some guy is happier than him? Why, he asks in astonishment.

• 26:23Speaker 03

  Solon replies, well, he lived during a prosperous time in Athens. He had stunningly handsome and respectable sons and many, many grandchildren, who all lived into adulthood. He also had a pretty decent amount of wealth and, and he died before his body could truly betray him. You see, Athens was once fighting Eleusis and, and Tellus, he was the one who managed to break the Eleusisian line, which allowed the Athenians to win. He, he did die during this, this, but it was a glorious reason to die. He was buried where he fell and the Athenians gave him a state funeral. So he did pretty good, I think. He's dead, thought Croesus. He's, he's dead. How can he be happier if he's dead? Well, certainly, I'll be the second happiest, he thought.

• 27:10Speaker 03

  Who was the second happiest then? Asked Croesus. Solon stops and thinks about this for a moment. Hmm. I would say it was Cleopas and Bitton. Croesus at this point is, I imagine, just sick of this, head and hands rubbing his temple and goes, and, and, and who exactly? Are Cleopas and Bitton? And Solon goes, okay, okay, so Cleopas and Bitton were these Argive guys. And there was this festival going on to Hera and their mother just had to attend because she was a wonderfully pious woman. However, she couldn't make her way there herself, right? They had a cart, but the, the oxen were out at field and they wouldn't be back in time. So. They, they, they say to their mom, you know what, you know what, mom?

• 27:55Speaker 03

  Get in the cart, we're gonna get you there. She jumps on and, and off they run with her in the cart. They pulled her a grand total of forty-five stades, which is a little over seven kilometers.

• 28:08Speaker 03

  Everyone who was around the temple was astounded by behavior of these young men. And the mother went into the temple to Hera and prayed that her sons would receive the highest blessings from the goddess. So they continued their celebrations and as the day waned, the sons went into the temple to sleep. And in their sleep, they promptly passed away. They are the second happiest of men in existence. Yeah, you heard that right. They were the happiest because they were good to their mother and then died. Don't even give them the chance to fuck it all up. Chrysus was unimpressed with his answer and just lost it on Solon. Why am I not the happiest man, Solon, he cries? I have so much wealth and prosperity and power, how could I not be the happiest man?

• 28:52Speaker 03

  Solon sighs and says to him, wealth, power, and prosperity can all be temporary. A rich man can be terribly unlucky and thus unhappy. The addition of wealth only really makes him able to weather a bad storm. He must also be lucky in order to be happy. Chrysus was wildly unhappy with all of this and was super butthurt through it all, so Solon decided that his time was up and off he went. What a fun little side story. Isn't that great? Okay, back to the regular events. Oh, nope, nope, still on another tangent, okay. Okay, so Solon leaves and apparently Chrysus's insistence on him being the happiest pissed off the gods.

• 29:33Speaker 03

  And he was given a prophetic dream that his son, Attus, would die via an iron spearhead. This frightened him because he needs an heir, you know? So he ordered that all the weapons be removed from the household and put in the women's room for some reason? Because his son definitely would not be going into any of the women's rooms, apparently. And he pulled his son from all military activity and anything where he could possibly be put in harm's way. He really wanted to ensure that his son would not be killed. Well, one day, a young man appears at court. His name is Adrastus and he is the son of Gordias, grandson of Midas. Is this important, this story? I guess we shall find out.

• 30:16Speaker 03

  So Adrastus apparently had killed his own brother in an accident. And because of this, he was exiled and in need of purification. Chrysus feels for him, recognizing that his family and Adrastus's family have always been close. He allows him to stay and purifies him of his crime.

• 30:34Speaker 03

  One day, some villagers came to Chrysus to inform them, him of a horrible, violent boar that was really fucking up their town. They needed it dealt with, and oh boy, do the elite love to hunt some boar. Chrysus agrees and gets a little hunting party together, but Attis, his son, remember, was not included. And he went to his father in a righteous rage. Papa, he says, why are you excluding me from this? I am young and strong and tough. I can fight. I can hunt. Besides, if you keep me inside, my future wife is gonna be like, so embarrassed of me, so like, please, can you let me go, cuz I don't want her to think I'm a wimp. Chrysus is upset.

• 31:18Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, no, he can't let his son go. His one precious son. Oh, yeah, sorry. He had another son, but he doesn't want us to think about that, probably because that son was disabled in some way and he was horrified by that. Yay, ableism. Antiquity, man. He says, no, no, Attis, I cannot let you go because you see, I had a dream, a terrible premonition that you would be killed by an iron pointed spear. Attis blinks, takes a beat and says, Papa, why, why would a boar have a spear that it could kill me with? That convinces Chrysus, who realizes how silly he was being and agrees to let his son lead the hunt.

• 32:01Speaker 03

  But he grabs Adrastus beforehand, pulls him close and says, you, you keep my one and only perfect son safe. I purified you. You owe me. Adrastus says, yes, sir, and off he goes with Attis. Now, uh, remember that oracle way at the beginning by the Delphic oracle? Uh, when Genghis got a hold of the throne, that within five generations, his line would be overturned by the Heracles? Alright, so, let's count. Artis, Satyattis, Aliattis, Chrysus, Attis, oh. Oh, that, you know what? That does appear to be five generations right there. Great, great, great.

• 32:43Speaker 03

  Time for some death, because of course Attis is the only possible son that could be an heir, not his, not at all, his other child, who was merely disabled, but still a person. Don't be silly. Well, Attis and Adrastus go off on the hunt, and as you might guess it, someone's spear finds its way into someone else's chest and boom, dead. Creuses was horrified, his son, his perfect and only son was dead. And not only was he dead, but Creuses himself had purified the hands of his killer.

• 33:16Speaker 03

  Adrastus accompanies Attis's body back home and goes to Creuses saying, "I, I, I killed him. I'm nothing but a killer. I don't, I don't deserve life, especially after you have been so kind to me. You must put me down this very instant." Creuses, in a weird amount of sympathy, shakes his head and says, "No, Adrastus, I, I cannot do that. You did not mean to do any of this. None of this was intentional. I shall not grant you your wish. You are a good man with unfortunate circumstances." Creuses buries Attis in the grandest of burial mounds, and after all the mourners have left, Adrastus arrives.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  He climbs upon the burial mound and slits his throat. He was determined. Solon would have had words.

• 34:09Speaker 03

  Creuses was so disturbed by all of this, he quickly fell into the deepest of depressions, of which nothing could get him out. Solon was right. His money, his wealth, his power meant absolutely nothing. He gained not much. I mean, he had a pretty solid empire, just didn't really have Mylites. He had lost his perfect and only son. Okay, the other son was literally right there. And all his money could do nothing to make him feel any better. He was destitute, alone, and nothing could bring him any comfort or drive him to find a new passion. Except, wait, what was that? There were rumblings in the east, Cyrus, anyone, anyone know that name?

• 34:55Speaker 03

  The son of Cambyses seemed to be gaining more and more power for the Persian Empire and was spreading more and more west. And Creuses, well, he was quite certain that he could absolutely put them in their place. So he got himself up out of bed, he put his, his fuzzy bunny slippers to the side, and he walked out of his room, steeling himself to take on the Persians.

• 35:31Speaker 03

  And that's where we're going to leave it for this week, everyone. I thought, I thought I would get farther, but look, if Herodotus is the father of tangents, asides, and digressions, then I am his daughter who took exactly after him. Though I did pretty good at keeping to his narrative. I really didn't move anything around. Truly, this was Herodotus in all his wacky and beautiful ways. He just has so much to say and no good way of putting it into a clear narrative. You know who he needs to sit down with? Tolkien. Tolkien could teach him how to make a good appendix, an entirely different book, simply for all of his asides. That would be really fucking cool, actually.

• 36:08Speaker 03

  Though I would love something like that from antiquity, just like an entire book of tiny little stories here, there, everywhere, myth, history, everything. That would be... No, Sue, actually, no, I need this. And I will never get it. Yay! But until then, we are stuck with Herodotus and all his tangents. God bless his souche. That's soul in ancient Greek. Well, kinda soul, something soul, sometimes soul, sometimes other things, maybe. You know what? Translation is difficult. Maybe, maybe if I, maybe I'll do a write-up. How about the trouble with translation? Put Patreon sometime. Oh, you guys, I have so many ideas and no drive to do it all, so I don't know. Bully me online if you want me to do things. I give you permission to bully me. That'll be great.

• 36:54Speaker 03

  It also gives Liv more time to work on her books and all the other exciting things she has in her brain, so, hey. Well, thank you all for joining me and Herodotus this week. Come back next time for Creases's next moves. Let's talk about "Mith's Baby" is written and produced by our most lovely Liv Albert. Michaela Pangowish is the Hermes to all your Olympians, the incredible producer and terrified to be here, but also so very excited. Select music is by Luke Chaos. Thank you, Luke. The podcast is part of the Memory Collective Podcast Network, a wonderful place we are working on behind the scenes to help bring accurate and reliable information straight to you all. Down with the days of paywalls and information. Being looked behind the ivory doors of institutions.

• 37:36Speaker 03

  Don't get me wrong, I love academia and the work that it does, but it should be available en masse. Get ad-free episodes and so much more by subscription to the Oracle Edition on Patreon at patreon.com/mithsbaby or via the link in the episode's description. Thank you all. Wow, I'm so very happy to be sharing the wild world of Greek history with you all. Bye.

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