629 The Power of Hope to Heal with Elizabeth Smart

“It’s not what happens to you that defines who you are, it’s ultimately your decisions.” - Elizabeth Smart There are a lot of heartbreaking things that happen in this world. I’m sure you have your own stories. Being a victim doesn’t end with the event. It continues on for a lifetime. In the end, you have no control over what happened to you. There’s no going back. What you do have control over is the decisions you make on the other side -- how you let these tragedies affect you. You need to not only stay strong but also learn to forgive. When I say this, I say it from personal experience. I have gone through abuse when I was younger, and I understand how it can disrupt you to your core. But forgiveness isn’t for them. It’s for you. Forgiveness doesn’t mean what happened is ok. It doesn’t mean you let go of what happened and consider everything to be just fine. It doesn’t eliminate what happened. Forgiveness is about allowing yourself to move forward as a better person. It’s about growing, rather than letting these events disrupt your life anymore. It’s about becoming stronger and learning from the situation to help others. There is no one who knows this better than today’s guest on The School of Greatness: Elizabeth Smart. If you haven’t heard of Elizabeth Smart, she was kidnapped by complete strangers at the age of 14 and held captive for 9 months. She endured nearly every terrible thing you can imagine. Today, Elizabeth is a NYT best-selling author and has dedicated her life to bringing empowerment to survivors and awareness to these crimes. On this episode, we discuss the biggest lessons she’s learned about forgiveness, her definition of hope, the importance of owning your story, and the biggest lesson she learned from her captors. Discover all of that and much more, on Episode 629. What’s been the biggest lesson about forgiveness for you? (6:23) If you could go back to that day would you wish it didn’t happen, or do you feel like you’re better off because of what you learned? (10:42) What was the feeling when you saw your family for the first time? (12:32) Do you feel like you’re still healing today? (16:20) What if you feel there is no hope? (17:32) Does someone who commits these crimes have no hope for a meaningful life? (19:26) Is there anything that you’ve given up hope on? (25:03) Do you believe in people? (27:42) What’s the reason to keep going when things are dark? (29:18) If what we go through doesn’t define us, what does define us? (32:09) How long it took Elizabeth to forgive and move on (9:46) The biggest fear for Elizabeth during her abduction (12:00) What gave her hope while being held captive (14:13) Her definition of hope now (16:46) The difference between a collective community having hope and a single person having hope (24:38) How people can be more educated to not commit these crimes (25:52) What Elizabeth wishes more people would do about owning our own stories (28:12) The biggest lesson that she learned from her captors (29:35) Plus much more... Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 629 with New York Times bestselling author Elizabeth Smart.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:32Lewis Howes?

  Anne Lamott said, "Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and you try to do the right thing, the dawn will come." Welcome to today's episode and today is a special one with Elizabeth Smart, who is a child safety activist and New York Times bestselling author. She also gained widespread attention at the age of 14 when she was kidnapped from her home and rescued nine months later. You might have heard about this on the news a while back. Now she helps promote the National Amber Alert, the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act and other safety legislation to help prevent abductions. She's also a news reporter covering crime stories.

• 1:15Lewis Howes?

  And in this episode, we talk about the biggest lessons she learned about forgiveness since being found. Also, how forgiveness and self-love are related. Her definition of hope, the importance of owning your story, no matter what, and the biggest lesson she learned from her captors. This is a powerful one. I'm so excited for you to dive into this information. But before we get in, I want to give a shout out to the fan of the week. This is from Ryan Hill, who said, "This podcast has totally changed my outlook on life. It's given me the strength to shape my future and choose what I want to do. Every episode seems to relate to real world situations that I deal with every day and I take this knowledge and apply it every day."

• 1:58Lewis Howes?

  Keep it up, Lewis. I hope other people are feeling as motivated as me after hearing your message each time they listen. So Ryan Hill, thank you for listening, for leaving the review. It means a lot to me and make sure to leave a review over on iTunes if you haven't left one yet. I love to hear from you on how this podcast has impacted your life as well. And let me know what you guys think of this episode. Take a screenshot, tag me on Instagram. The link is lewishouse.com/629 with the one and only Elizabeth Smart.

• 2:34Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back and morning to the School of Greatness podcast. We have Elizabeth Smart in the studio. Thank you so much for being here.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 2:42Lewis Howes?

  All the way from Utah. You have a book out right now and congrats on everything that is in this book. It's helping a lot of people right now, so congrats and I recommend you guys go get it. You have an amazing story, which you've told thousands of times and a lot of people know about. But for those that don't know, you were kidnapped as a teenager, a young teenager, right? You were 14 and essentially held captive for nine months.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:09Lewis Howes?

  Sexually abused, starved, you know, mistreated, misused, all the things that are horrible to think about. And you came out on the other side, now happily married with kids and helping give back to humanity, which I think is a beautiful thing. So I want to acknowledge you and congratulate you for coming out on the other side of what some would say is one of the most horrific experiences they could ever imagine happening to them. You've continued to give back and use this, this experience as a blessing to give and inform and help and educate and inspire humanity. So I want to acknowledge you for that.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 3:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 3:51Lewis Howes?

  What's been the biggest lesson about forgiveness for you that you've learned, you know, not over the last 15 years since this happened? What's been the biggest lesson for you about forgiveness in general?

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Well, I think actually when I came to write this book, the biggest lesson for me, I mean, I knew how I always felt about it. I just never really knew how to say it. And I'd always grown up hearing forgiveness is not for you. I mean, forgiveness is for you. It's not for the other person.

• 4:21Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  And when I'd hear that, it just kind of went in one ear and out the other. But then when I finally sat down to write the chapter on forgiveness and I really had to think a lot about what I felt forgiveness was, what it meant to me, what it's meant to me in my own life. It got me really thinking and. It of course brought me back to that same phrase forgiveness is for yourself and not for the other person and so I sat there thinking about it and how I felt about it and as I interviewed these other people for this chapter about forgiveness that phrase really brought new meaning to me that it is for yourself it's not for the other person I think we so often think that forgiveness is like a two way street

• 5:01Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  That it takes someone to be like the offender and the other person to be the victim and the forgiver but as I went through writing this book I changed my mind on that I don't think that it is a two person thing I think it's very much an individual thing I mean I think I feel like forgiveness is probably the greatest expression of self love you can give yourself because I think that it's letting go of the terrible things inside you at first I think you do need to acknowledge what's happened to you I think I think it's perfectly natural and normal to be angry to be frustrated to like feel

• 5:43Lewis Howes?

  Pissed off with the world or whatever yeah.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Yeah exactly to feel all those feelings I think that's okay you probably should feel it I don't think you'd be human if you didn't.

• 5:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  And so I think feel those feelings but then also you come to a point where you decide okay like I've I've acknowledged it like I've expressed my emotions and now I'm going to move on with my life and I don't necessarily think that that's like okay like everything's just gonna be you know like butterflies and roses moving forward but I think it's having that goal of continually moving forward loving yourself enough to let go of like those poisonous feelings inside you to like allow peace and joy and love and as tacky and cliches it sounds all of those kinds of positive emotions back into your life to replace where all that negativity was so I do believe that forgiveness is a very individual thing and it's not necessarily like a condonment of

• 6:38Speaker 01

  The actions that have happened to you from someone else, I mean, for instance, my case, I'll never be okay. I'll never think that rape is okay. I'll never think that kidnapping is okay. I just never will. And so I feel like I have had forgiveness brought into my life. I've forgiven my captors. I've moved on. But that doesn't mean that I'm okay with rape or kidnapping.

• 7:00Lewis Howes?

  That happening to anyone ever.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  It means that I've accepted it's happened to me. I've felt anger. I've felt frustration. I've felt that pain. And I have released it. I've let it go. And I have moved on in my life and filled that space with, you know, positive things.

• 7:17Lewis Howes?

  How long did it take you to forgive and move on?

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Well, my mom, the morning after I was rescued, she said, Elizabeth, these people are terrible. They've taken so much of your life from you. They've stolen nine months that you'll never get back. But the best punishment you can give them is to be happy, to move on with your life. And so she said that, I mean, like, right when I got home. And that just immediately made sense to me. So I was like, well, yeah, of course I'm gonna do that. And I definitely, like, had my ups and downs. There were definitely times when I would think this is so unfair. Why did this have to happen to me? I didn't deserve that. I didn't do anything to, to bring that upon myself. But I eventually got to a point where I don't ask those questions anymore. I don't,

• 8:00Speaker 01

  I don't feel sorry for myself anymore. I don't... Sure, I wish it had never happened, because I wish those things didn't happen to anyone. But I've accepted the fact that it has happened to me, and I've been able to go on.

• 8:14Lewis Howes?

  If you could go back to that, that day and change the story, would you wish it didn't happen to you? Or you actually feel like you're better off for it happening because of what you've learned and how you can actually help more people in the process?

• 8:29Speaker 01

  It's an interesting thought. And I've thought a lot about it. Would I? And there are some things that I'm like, that would have been really nice, just to, you know, just...

• 8:38Lewis Howes?

  Have a normal childhood.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Be like everybody else. Like, so there have definitely been times that I've been like, what would I have been? What would I have done? Where would my life be now? But I also recognize the fact that I wouldn't be doing half the things that I'm doing today had I not been kidnapped. I wouldn't have half the voice that I have today if I hadn't been kidnapped. And as much as I'd like to think that I would care as much about these topics as I do today had I not been kidnapped, I honestly just don't know.

• 9:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  So, I guess.

• 9:14Lewis Howes?

  Because it wouldn't have had an effect on you.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  I don't know if I would have gone back and changed things, but I'm not sorry that they did happen to me because of how it's affected my life and because of the opportunities it's given to me that I wouldn't otherwise have.

• 9:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What was the biggest fear for you during that time?

• 9:35Speaker 01

  Well, definitely that, I mean, they threatened me every day that they were gonna kill me. They were gonna kill my family. So the thought that they would kill my family, that was pretty scary because there were times when I was like, death, death would be better than this.

• 9:52Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  But the thought that they might go after my family or go after my sister, that was scary. And so that's why I did what they said.

• 10:00Lewis Howes?

  Just did whatever, yeah. What was the feeling when you saw your family for the first time?

• 10:08Speaker 01

  Well, when I first saw my dad, I mean, I had, I had gone from being with my captors. They had handcuffed me and put me in the back of the car, which I immediately started thinking, I'm in trouble.

• 10:19Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  I mean, because.

• 10:20Lewis Howes?

  Oh, really?

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Because like who, who gets put in the back of a police car handcuffed and not be in trouble? So I immediately thought, I'm in trouble, shoot. And so they brought me to this room and no one told me what was going on. And so I just kept thinking, I'm like, I'm going to jail. I'm going to jail, I'm going to jail, I'm going to jail, like, oh my gosh, I can't believe it. I survived nine months with these people.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  And now I'm, I'm going to jail, that's just it. And so I didn't like have any warning and my dad just walked into the room. So it kinda took a moment for like the top to connect in my brain.

• 11:00Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  But I remember, I remember he came running in and he just looked at me for a second and then he said, Elizabeth, is it really you? And then he came over and he just picked me up in this huge hug and sometime in there that like, I finally like realized what was going on. And it was that moment that I remember just knowing that whatever lay ahead of me, it was gonna be okay. I still thought I might be going to jail. I still like wasn't reassured that I wasn't. But I knew it was gonna be okay, cause my dad was there and he wasn't gonna let anybody else hurt me the way these two people had hurt me the last nine months.

• 11:40Lewis Howes?

  What was your thought process and was there something that you told yourself every day or something you thought about? That held you on to the hope of getting out of there?

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Well, for me, which actually is, I mean, it's wonderful for me, but it's so tragic for other victims. Because my kidnapping was by strangers. All of the terrible things that I went through came from strangers. And so when I was kidnapped, I was able to find my hope in my family's love, that they would never stop loving me. Maybe nobody else would, nobody else would wanna talk to me or be my friend, that was gonna be okay, but my family would still love me. And the tragic thing about abuse and rape and violence and kidnapping in today's world is that actually,

• 12:35Speaker 01

  most of the abuse that happens, most kidnappings that happen, they actually come from your family.

• 12:42Lewis Howes?

  Really kidnappings?

• 12:43Speaker 01

  From someone that you know, someone that you trust and I.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Like, I just feel sick about it because that betrayal is so deep. And where are they going to go next to find their support? I mean, it divides so many families because half of the family believes you. Half of them is angry at you for bringing this up because you've caused this rift. And they don't think, how could this person do that? You know, that person is my, my husband, or my father, or my brother, or my uncle, or my best friend. They'd never do that. I know them. They'd never do that. And so, the survivor is left, you know, not being supported, not having a safe place to be. You know, living in fear, doubting themselves if they did the right thing. Should they have just kept quiet? Should they, are they making it a bigger deal than what it is?

• 13:32Speaker 01

  And, and that always makes me pretty sick to my stomach. That always makes me really sad because no victim should feel that way. I mean, every victim needs support. Every victim needs a safe place to go. They need, you know, healing and kindness and they shouldn't be made to doubt themselves.

• 13:51Lewis Howes?

  Right. Do you feel like you're still healing today? Or do you feel like you've fully healed from the process?

• 13:56Speaker 01

  I think, I think we're all healing from life. I mean, I certainly don't have a perfect life. But I feel like I have healed sufficiently from what I went through that I can function as a normal human being and still try to make a difference.

• 14:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What's your definition of hope now? And has your perspective changed over the last fifteen years on hope?

• 14:23Speaker 01

  I think hope is finding something that you can hold on to, no matter how dark your life may seem, how bad things may seem. And that one speck of something you find is gonna carry you through. You can hold on to it no matter what. I guess I feel like that's, that's what hope is. It's that little piece of light, whether, you know, it's family, or faith, or sports, or a passion in life. But it's, it's holding on to that to get you through whatever, whatever crappy day or crappy thing you're going through. It's holding on to that.

• 15:01Lewis Howes?

  What if you feel like there is no hope?

• 15:03Speaker 01

  I beg to differ. I think you just have to find it.

• 15:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  Um, I think there's always hope. I, I do recognize that there are a lot of people who do struggle all the time. Everybody has a story. Everybody has something. And it can get pretty dark, can seem, you know, can seem like it's pitch black. But I think that's just when you have to look all the harder to find it. And, you know, maybe it's seemingly small or silly, but finding that and, and holding on to it, it could be anything.

• 15:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:37Lewis Howes?

  Hey guys, I want to take a quick break from this conversation with Elizabeth to tell you about one of the best sources I've found for running your online business. If you're looking to build your brand online, then look no farther than weebly.com/greatness. Now, this is a place where Weebly lets you build your brand, promote your products, and process payments, manage inventory, and engage directly with your customers, all in one convenient place. And because every business is different, you can pick from a huge menu of apps and features to keep your business growing and running smoothly. And you're never alone because the Weebly support team is there for you when you need them. There's no scripts or robots, just incredibly knowledgeable team, people whose sole job

• 16:21Lewis Howes?

  is to help you succeed. There's beautiful, modern, easy to build online store templates, powerful e-commerce tools to help turn shoppers into buyers. There's integrated marketing tool to help connect your customers and keep them engaged. Tons of apps, so much available here. Make sure to check it out at weebly.com/greatness to learn more and get 15% off your first purchase. That's W E E B L Y dot com slash greatness. Weebly, more than just a beautiful website. Now, back to the conversation.

• 16:57Lewis Howes?

  What about those who have caused the abuse, or the trauma, or the kidnapping, or the rape? How do they find hope once they've been caught and had their punishment, or gone to jail, or whatever's happened? How do they find hope in coming out the other side better?

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Well, I guess I'm a lot more sympathetic to victims and survivors than I am to predators and

• 17:32Speaker 01

  victimizers.

• 17:33Lewis Howes?

  Well, there's a lot of them out there.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  There are.

• 17:35Lewis Howes?

  You know, with all the people who have been sexually abused, women, you know, one in six men. That means there's a lot of predators out there in the world, unfortunately.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  There are.

• 17:44Lewis Howes?

  And so is there hope for a large portion of the world that is predators?

• 17:52Speaker 01

  I mean, you're almost getting me to go back on what I say. I mean, I do believe that there's hope for everybody, but there are some things that I think if you make those choices, there's no coming back from that.

• 18:05Lewis Howes?

  No coming back? You can't redeem yourself?

• 18:08Speaker 01

  If you rape a child, no, I don't think you can come back from that. I'm not God, though.

• 18:15Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  So...

• 18:17Lewis Howes?

  What should happen if someone does that? Or does something, they kidnap someone, or rape someone, or what do you think? Do they have no hope the rest of their life? To live a meaningful life if they make a mistake, or commit this horrible crime?

• 18:34Speaker 01

  Is raping a child a mistake? No, that's a choice. That's not just, oh, my penis slipped out of my pants and up this four-year-old's vagina. That doesn't happen like that. I mean, it's a very

• 18:45Lewis Howes?

  I'm not saying it's

• 18:46Speaker 01

  conscious decision. It's not a mistake.

• 18:48Lewis Howes?

  I'm agreeing with you. I'm just playing devil's advocate in the sense of if someone makes this choice, right, this conscious decision to do something horrible, they're 25 years old and they do this, whatever it is, kidnap someone, rape a child, I was sexually abused and raped when I was five, so I understand, and it was 25 years of trauma and heartache and a lot of pain and suffering. So I'm not defending anyone who does this because I had it happen to me. I'm asking your point of view of if someone does do this and makes that decision to hurt someone else's life, do they, are they unable to live a meaningful life for the remainder of their years if they have a very long life to live? Do they suffer the rest of their life?

• 19:32Lewis Howes?

  Can they not contribute to humanity anymore? Or is anyone who makes a horrible mistake, a medium mistake, a small mistake, do they all suffer for the rest of their life?

• 19:46Speaker 01

  So...

• 19:49Lewis Howes?

  And where's the line of, well, that's really bad and that's just bad. And raping kids, like, no coming back. Kidnapping someone for a day, maybe you come back, but kidnapping for nine months, never. To, you know, all the different crimes and things that are out there.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  So, I, I'm a person of faith, so I mean, I, I do believe in God. I do believe in Jesus Christ. I do believe in his atonement. So if I said there's no hope for anybody, that would not be very Christian of me. So I would say that, yes, I do believe there's hope for those predators. But I also believe that they forfeited certain rights. So do I think they should have the same freedoms as everyone else? No, I don't. There are some crimes that I feel like are so heinous

• 20:49Speaker 01

  that you do forfeit, in some cases, your life because of what you've done.

• 20:55Lewis Howes?

  Do you forfeit living a happy life?

• 20:57Speaker 01

  I think in many cases, yes. And I look at my own captors and I think of them. Do I think they're sorry for what they did to me? No, I don't think they're sorry. I don't think they regret. I don't think that if they could go back in time, they would go back and not kidnap me. I think they would. And I think during the trial, there was ample proof of every life that they touched. They tried to destroy.

• 21:26Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  They poisoned, I mean, so both of them, it was, they both had prior marriages. And Wanda Barzey's daughter came and lived with them for a while. And Brian Mitchell was extremely manipulative, very, very controlling. One day, she decided to go out with her friends, not come home. And what happened, but that night, they fed her pet rabbit to her without telling her.

• 21:52Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, I mean, I think that they, they were evil people. And so they won't ever be sorry for what they did. I'll never get an apology from them. I'll never get, I'm so sorry, I did this, we should have never done this. Like, I'm gonna spend the rest of my life trying to make amends for that. I don't think they're gonna do that. And I think actually they're probably...

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Very few predators that actually would feel that way. I could be wrong. I mean, I haven't spent tons of time with predators other than my own captors.

• 22:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  But I mean, I think what people end up being sorry for is that they get caught.

• 22:30Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  And that's why I think predators who commit sexual crimes are so dangerous. And that's why I think that their crimes are so serious because it's so often they are repeat offenders. And so I think that when they

• 22:48Speaker 01

  when they commit those kinds of sexual crimes, that they forfeit their right to freedom.

• 22:53Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 22:53Speaker 01

  That they do need to stay locked up.

• 22:56Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Not, not just to mention that, but I mean, if you're a survivor of it, then you know, like, it's not like a crime like murder. It's not just over and done with. It's not a crime of theft. It's not just over and done with. I mean, being a victim of, of rape, of sexual violence is something that can haunt you for the rest of your life. It can destroy you from the inside out.

• 23:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  I mean, it's not just a simple, easy crime to say, right, five years and you're done. Ten years and you're done. Because it's something that will haunt some victims till the day they die.

• 23:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, absolutely. What's your thoughts on, is there a difference between a collective community having hope versus one person having hope? Is one more powerful than the other?

• 23:44Speaker 01

  I think the more people that you have, certainly it's gonna be more powerful. But that's not to say that one person's hope can't overcome anything else.

• 23:54Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Is there anything that you've given up hope on?

• 23:59Speaker 01

  Anything that I've given up? Well, I did used to dream of being a rodeo queen. I think I've given up hope on that one.

• 24:06Lewis Howes?

  Have you?

• 24:07Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 24:08Lewis Howes?

  What about, I mean, in your own personal life, personal healing or forgiveness? Is there anything that you've yet to let go of?

• 24:15Speaker 01

  I think that, no, I feel like I'm pretty at peace with myself, with my experiences. I don't feel like there's lingering anger or malice or.

• 24:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  I certainly have very strong feelings towards topics that I work on and talk about all the time. But I don't feel like I have negativity left inside me because of what happened.

• 24:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. How can people be more educated to not commit these things? And what do you think the root cause is of people doing these things?

• 24:53Speaker 01

  I've thought a lot about it. I have thought a lot about it. And I don't know that there's like a one size fits all answer. I mean, I think there's probably a lot of factors into it. A lot of times I recognize that people have abuse in their own lives themselves.

• 25:12Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  I don't think it's a cause and effect.

• 25:15Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  Um, I don't think just because, you know, I was kidnapped and raped, I'm gonna go out and kidnap and rape someone. So I don't think it's, I don't, I don't necessarily think that's true. But I'm not sure. I know that there are influences that can impact predator behavior a lot. For instance, pornography. I think pornography is terrible. The, because my captors, they used to bring pornography in into

• 25:47Speaker 01

  this, the hidden camp where they held me hostage at, and he would sit there and he would just, it wasn't looking at pornography. I mean, it was being like fully engaged, just like completely engrossed in looking at these women. And looking at them having sex and, and looking at how they.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  Were naked, looking how they opened their legs up. And every time he looked at pornography, every single time he looked at pornography, the next thing he would do would rape me. And it was always worse. It was always worse. So I think there are definitely influencing factors on that kind of behavior. And I think pornography is one of them. I think pornography is extremely damaging and extremely dangerous.

• 26:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Do you believe in people?

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Yes, I do. I think, how could I not? I mean, it was people who brought me home. I mean, almost not a day goes by that I am not approached by someone who said, there are times that you remember in your life exactly where you were at. And the day that you were rescued is one day where I remember exactly where I was at. And I prayed for you every single day while you're gone. So, yes.

• 27:01Lewis Howes?

  That's pretty amazing.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  I absolutely believe in people.

• 27:05Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. What do you wish more people knew about owning our own stories?

• 27:12Speaker 01

  I wish that, I wish people would be a little bit kinder to each other. I wish people would be able to find hope a little bit more because we've all experienced something in our lives. We've all had bad days. We've all gone through things, whether it's, you know, losing someone that you love, getting a disease, going through, experiencing a violent crime. Whatever it is, we've all been through something. And you'd think that because we've all experienced some kind of hardship in our life, we'd all be able to be a little bit kinder to each other and a little bit more compassionate and have a little bit more empathy to each other. But we don't. And I think that's sad. So I do wish people, I wish people could see that.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  And I also wish that people could realize that no matter how dark your life is, no matter how hard it is, there is always a reason to keep going. There is always a reason to find your little bit of hope and to not give up.

• 28:09Lewis Howes?

  What's the reason?

• 28:10Speaker 01

  What's the reason? It's gonna be, I think, different for everyone. But I think common things you'll find with most people is family, is love, is faith, is the hope for a better future, the hope to see a change come about.

• 28:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What's the biggest lesson that you learned from your captors?

• 28:30Speaker 01

  The biggest lesson that I learned from my captors? As...

• 28:37Speaker 01

  A victim as a survivor that there is.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  You didn't do anything wrong. There's like whatever your situation is. You didn't make the wrong choice. This was not because of something that you did or you deserved. This came from the actions of other people and it doesn't need to define who you are. I think it's it's so easy to when we go through kind of these big experiences in life to feel like, well, that's it, that's me like. How will I ever move on from this? And I think probably that biggest lesson is to recognize that we actually have fairly small control over what happens to us, over the circumstances around us.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  But we do have one hundred percent control when it comes to how we react, when it comes to what we're gonna do next. And so I think accepting, realizing that it's not what happens to you that defines who you are. It's ultimately your decisions that define who you are. I think that was probably my biggest lesson.

• 29:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Did you learn that while you were in this ninth period? Did you start telling yourself that it's how I react to what they do to me? That's gonna determine my happiness.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  I don't think it was like as articulate as that. But I think it was just do what you have to do to survive.

• 30:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  Elizabeth, whatever decision you make right now, it's not wrong because you're doing it to survive. So even if that's, you know, doing things that you promised yourself you were never gonna do. It doesn't matter, they're not wrong because it's gonna help you survive.

• 30:22Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  And I actually think that's really important for victims to acknowledge because I think too many victims and and not just of sex crimes, but victims of of anything feel this too often that somehow they start feeling guilty because they might seemingly have joined in or they allowed it to happen. But truthfully, could many of them stop it? Probably not.

• 30:48Lewis Howes?

  Or might have been worse off.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Exactly, might have been worse off. And so I hope that victims, that survivors have a sense of relief because the decisions that you make to survive are not wrong.

• 31:03Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 31:05Lewis Howes?

  If what we go through doesn't define us, what does define us?

• 31:09Speaker 01

  It's your decisions. It's how you live your life moving on. It's what you decide to do next. I mean, some things are very difficult to move on from. Some things feel like they're monumental and how could I ever get past this? But I think even just making that decision, that decision to have the desire to move past it, I think that's the first step.

• 31:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  I think it's okay. There's no timeline. It's not saying, I went through this today and tomorrow I have to be okay. Next month I have to be back at work. Following month I need to get a raise or a promotion. I don't think there's a timeline. I mean, I think it's gonna be a process for anyone. And that process is, you know, gonna be a different period of time for anybody.

• 31:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  I don't think it's healthy to compare yourself to anyone else. But just even have that desire to move on, to not just wallow in self pity. Because we're all human. I'm sure we all do it sometimes. But to eventually come to that point where you say, okay, I need to deal with this and then I need to let it go.

• 32:15Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. Was there anything that they did that you thought was good?

• 32:21Speaker 01

  Anything that they did.

• 32:22Lewis Howes?

  Or that was nice? Or that you were like, huh? There was like a glimmer of like some, wow, there's something good about these people. Or was everything always wrong? Like, did they ever do anything nice for you or say something thoughtful? Or was it always manipulative and negative?

• 32:47Speaker 01

  My captors were very smart. They were very smart.

• 32:54Lewis Howes?

  And you were young.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  In how they appeared to the world. They were very smart in how they acted and how they played out this facade. So they never just sat there and said, you're so dumb or you're so ugly.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  They never said that to me. I mean, they'd say things like, oh, you're so special. That's why God chose you. You're so special. Like, that's why you're meant to be my second wife.

• 33:27Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  And that's why I was commanded to go and get you was because you weren't as evil as the rest of the world.

• 33:33Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  So I feel like that was almost worse, actually. I think I would have rather had someone sit there and say, well, you're dumb.

• 33:43Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Well, you're ugly. Well, you know, this is your fault. I think I'd rather have someone say that to me. Because they tried to take things that that were very special to me, being that I do have faith in God, that I do believe, they took those things that are very special to me and then they tried to twist them and twist them and twist them and ruin them. Um, and so that was,

• 34:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  I feel like extremely manipulative. And I feel like a lot of, a lot of abusers, a lot of predators are like that. It's not just like the mindless, mindless crimes. I mean, a lot of them, what makes them so terrible is that they are thought out, is that they are, uh, just the way that they've portrayed everything is what makes them so bad.

• 34:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. This is called the three truths, a question I ask everyone at the end. You've written a couple of great books. You've shared a lot of your message and all over the world on the media. You've spoken everywhere, done workshops, and you're probably going to continue to do these things for a long time, I assume. Let's imagine it's the last day for you many years from now and you get to choose when that day is. And for whatever reason, you have to take all of your message and your work with you when you go. So there's no more work available for other people to read of yours. There's no videos to watch. You have to take it all with you. But you get to write down on a piece of paper the three truths that you know to be true about your life

• 35:14Lewis Howes?

  that you would pass on to everyone else. This would be your message to the world in three lessons or three truths. What would you say are yours?

• 35:24Speaker 01

  That I learned or that I want?

• 35:26Lewis Howes?

  You'd want the world to know. Three things you'd want the world to know, and this is all that they would have access to of your information.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:36Lewis Howes?

  It came down to three lessons or three truths that you could help the world with and share with.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Okay, I would want people to know that no matter how dark your life may seem, there's always light to find. I would want people to recognize the fact that we all have our experiences and it doesn't hurt to be a little kinder. It doesn't hurt to have a little bit more compassion. And I the third thing, it would just have to be that it doesn't it doesn't matter what's happened to you, ultimately you decide who you are.

• 36:12Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, that's true.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  So I guess it'd be those three things.

• 36:16Lewis Howes?

  Those are great, those are great. I appreciate and acknowledge you for all the work you're doing again to help people, to to share with people the information about how we can have more hope. Because there's so many challenges that we all go through, even if it's not sexual abuse or being kidnapped or other tragic things, there's other things we go through, and you talk about different stories of people you've talked with who've had instances in their life where they feel like there is no hope, and you you talk about how you can find that, so I acknowledge you for doing this work, and make sure you guys check out the book, it's called Where There's Hope, Healing, Moving Forward and Never Giving Up, make sure to go get a copy of the book. Where can we connect with you online or your website?

• 36:58Speaker 01

  I'm on Instagram, where I've got my website.

• 37:01Lewis Howes?

  Where do you hang out the most online?

• 37:03Speaker 01

  Probably Instagram.

• 37:04Lewis Howes?

  What's the handle?

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Elizabeth Smart Official.

• 37:07Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool, so if people connect with you there, you'll probably see it most likely there?

• 37:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:12Lewis Howes?

  Awesome. And what's the site, is it ElizabethSmart.com or?

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Well, there is ElizabethSmart.com, but then there's ElizabethSmartFoundation.org as well.

• 37:21Lewis Howes?

  Awesome, so we'll have that all linked up here on the show notes as well. Is there anything else that you'd want to share, or you think needs to be said before we wrap things up and get to the final question?

• 37:31Speaker 01

  I'm sure I'll walk out of here and think, oh dang it, I didn't, I didn't say that, I should have said that. I missed it, because that always happens, doesn't it?

• 37:39Lewis Howes?

  It's always.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  I don't know, I feel pretty good about it.

• 37:43Lewis Howes?

  Well, then I have one more question, and that's what's your definition of greatness?

• 37:48Speaker 01

  My definition of greatness would have to be

• 37:54Speaker 01

  Putting the betterment of humanity before yourself.

• 37:59Lewis Howes?

  There you go, Elizabeth. Thank you so much for coming on.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thank you for having me.

• 38:10Lewis Howes?

  There you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this one. And if you did, again, make sure to let me know what you enjoyed the most about this. Tag me on Instagram, @lewishouse on your Instagram story. And let's have a conversation over there. Post it over on Twitter, Facebook, all the places that you like to hang out. The link for this is lewishouse.com/629. And you can watch the full video interview back on the website there. We also just hit a quarter of a million subscribers over on YouTube. So congratulations to everyone who's subscribed. Thank you guys so much. And if you haven't subscribed to our channel yet, just go head over to youtube.com/lewishouse. Click on the subscribe button because we put out videos each and every week, lots of great content I don't want you to miss out on.

• 38:54Lewis Howes?

  Again, thank you guys so much for being a part of the School of Greenness community. We continue to grow and spread this message to so many people around the world. I get emails every single day and messages from people all the time, talking about the specific episodes that influenced and changed their life forever. So continue to share with us and our whole team who's listening, what the podcast has done for you, how it's impacted you in your personal life, your fitness, your career, your business, whatever it may be, we want to hear from you. Feel free to send us a message over at lewishouse.com. And tell us your story about how you've enjoyed the podcast, what it's done for you, and who you've shared it with.

• 39:34Lewis Howes?

  Again, Anne Lamott said, "Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and you try to do the right thing, the dawn will come." I love you guys very much. Thank you for all that you do. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.