#2361 - Graham Linehan

Graham Linehan is the writer, or co-writer, of several situation comedies, including "Father Ted," "Black Books," and "The IT Crowd." He is also a vocal figure in the ongoing public discourse regarding gender identity. https://grahamlinehan.substack.comhttps://www.youtube.com/c/grahamlinehan Go to https:/ExpressVPN.com/ROGAN to get 4 months free! Try ZipRecruiter FOR FREE at https://ziprecruiter.com/rogan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:14Joe Rogan?

  So you're telling me about the scar you got on your forehead recently?

• 0:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, I got into a bar fight with some, some guys were insulting a woman.

• 0:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, to take care of business, right?

• 0:22Speaker 00

  Had to take care of a bit of business. No, I fell off a scooter. I fell off a scooter. I was riding around Scottsdale feeling great and free because I'd never ridden a scooter before because I always thought that, we call them scooter nonsense in the UK. And because there was no one around to see me, I just thought, oh, this is great. I could do this all the time. But I just immediately fell flat on my face.

• 0:46Joe Rogan?

  Did you hit something or did you fall?

• 0:49Speaker 00

  No, I saw, I saw what looked like a ramp. But it was a single step down. So I went flying through the air and I remember when I landed, there was a weird moment when I landed where I thought, oh, that wasn't so bad. I didn't, I didn't screw myself up too badly. But then there was a second crunch and I remember thinking, oh, I'm dead.

• 1:10Joe Rogan?

  What was the second crunch?

• 1:11Speaker 00

  I don't know. Somehow I fell.

• 1:13Joe Rogan?

  Double, so you double fell.

• 1:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. And you know, I kind of like it because it makes me, it makes me look how I feel internally.

• 1:24Joe Rogan?

  Busted up and changed?

• 1:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:26Joe Rogan?

  So would it break your nose?

• 1:28Speaker 00

  No, oh, it did break my nose, yeah.

• 1:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30Speaker 00

  Yeah. But, you know, but you know, it's one of those things. Again, as I say, I quite like it. I think it gives me some courage.

• 1:36Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't mess you up?

• 1:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:37Joe Rogan?

  You're fine.

• 1:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:38Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's just a thing.

• 1:39Speaker 00

  And I might stick with the story about the bar, you know?

• 1:42Joe Rogan?

  I think you already gave up the goods. The problem with a story like that is I'm always like, is that better to get the fuck beaten out of you by guys? Like, maybe it's better to fall down.

• 1:50Speaker 00

  It's different if you're a fighter. I would imagine you wouldn't be too happy about it.

• 1:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'd be very upset that I got my ass kicked.

• 1:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:59Joe Rogan?

  Although that's happened many times.

• 2:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, um, the broken nose is a problem. Did you get your septum fixed and make sure that it's not all clogged up?

• 2:06Speaker 00

  I didn't. I didn't.

• 2:08Joe Rogan?

  You should.

• 2:08Speaker 00

  I know, yeah. Okay, I'm not.

• 2:10Joe Rogan?

  That is the one that I tell fighters whenever they retire. I'm like, please get your nose fixed. It'll change the quality of your life so much.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:17Joe Rogan?

  Because if you can't breathe out of your nose, you're, you're missing out on a large percentage of cardio.

• 2:22Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:22Joe Rogan?

  And not just cardio, like for athletics, but just everyday life. Well, you're not breathing out of your nose. You're not getting enough oxygen.

• 2:29Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 2:30Joe Rogan?

  You're probably oxygen depleted. And then you become one of them mouth open dudes.

• 2:34Speaker 00

  You did a, you did a whole interview with a guy who, who, who does that, doesn't he? He, he, he kind of teaches himself to only breathe through his nose.

• 2:41Joe Rogan?

  James Nestor. Yes. Yeah. He's got a great book called Breathe. For anybody who's fascinated by breathing techniques and how much it can help you. You can do a lot with breathing. It's just a thing that no one does. Cause it's like, oh, I'll look into that. And then you put it off and it never happens.

• 2:55Speaker 00

  Absolutely. And I gotta be careful because that's how old age gets you. It doesn't get you in one go. You don't suddenly become this bent old man. It, it, it picks away at you. Things like falling off scooters and, and you know what I mean? Not getting it fixed. Things like that are what pick away at you.

• 3:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. You gotta be, you gotta be ahead of it.

• 3:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:13Joe Rogan?

  You gotta be vigilant.

• 3:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Stay off the heroin too. I hear that's bad for you. Obviously get old. You don't see a lot of old heroin addicts.

• 3:20Speaker 00

  No, there was a, there's a punk poet in the UK named, uh, John Cooper Clarke, who is a bit of a genius. And, uh, he was taking it recreationally for years. And he only gave it up because he said so many people were worried about me. I just couldn't, I couldn't deal with it. They were just worried about me. But he was one of these guys, I guess like Burrows, William Burrows. He was able to just, you know, implement, implement it in his life, but.

• 3:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, I worked with, well, I worked out with a guy who was a longshoreman. And, uh, he had this guy that he worked with that would shoot heroin at lunch every day. And he was fine. He worked fine on the job. He was totally functional. He would take his hour lunch break. He would go sit in his truck. He'd get a bag from some guy and then he'd sit in his truck and shoot up.

• 4:06Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 4:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like real heroin, like shooting heroin.

• 4:09Speaker 00

  What was his job?

• 4:10Joe Rogan?

  He was a longshoreman.

• 4:11Speaker 00

  Oh, right.

• 4:12Joe Rogan?

  So he worked on the docks.

• 4:13Speaker 00

  Holy cow, you'd think you'd have to have your wits about you.

• 4:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, some of those longshore, they did different jobs. Like, my buddy was a fish fillet-er for a long time. So what would happen is you would get these huge trucks filled with fish and they would just fillet fish all day long. And he was a boxing trainer. And so he would rub like Vaseline on your face before you sparred. You'd just smell fish. Cause he was just, he just smelled like fish all the time. He couldn't get it off of him.

• 4:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:37Joe Rogan?

  It was just a part of his odor.

• 4:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:40Joe Rogan?

  Forever.

• 4:40Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 4:41Joe Rogan?

  I mean, he'd cut like thousands of fish a day, probably.

• 4:45Speaker 00

  That's like the old dye pits. I read in Toronto, in the job that you didn't want was to work in the dye pits. Because guys, what they'd have to do is they'd have to get into these like human-sized pits filled with dye and wrestle the dye into materi- I'm not sure which material it was.

• 5:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus Christ.

• 5:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:02Joe Rogan?

  So your whole body would be covered in dye?

• 5:04Speaker 00

  You would look like a kind of, like the Blue Man Group, you know, except from the neck down, you know? And, and you would always smell of it. And, and when, and when you took a shower, I read this in a brilliant book called The Skin of a Lion by Michael Andache.

• 5:17Joe Rogan?

  So it never comes off?

• 5:18Speaker 00

  No, it does. It, what they do is they come in a shower and then in one piece, the whole paint just falls on the ground like a skin. But they never got rid of the smell, you know?

• 5:28Joe Rogan?

  And probably the inside of your bathroom looks like shit forever, right? It's like dripping.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  No, that all happens at work. That all happens at work.

• 5:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they do it at work, they shower?

• 5:36Speaker 00

  Yeah. This is in the old days, you know, way, way.

• 5:38Joe Rogan?

  Bad must that be for you?

• 5:39Speaker 00

  I know, yeah, yeah.

• 5:41Joe Rogan?

  Your, your skin is an organ.

• 5:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:43Joe Rogan?

  So you're, you're, you're making your or- your organ doused in a chemical all day long.

• 5:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, these are the jobs we used to have, you know? Like, what's that thing they say? Hard times make.

• 5:55Joe Rogan?

  Hard people.

• 5:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:56Joe Rogan?

  Hard people make soft times.

• 5:57Speaker 00

  And we're certainly in the soft times now.

• 5:59Joe Rogan?

  But, yeah, we're in soft times make hard people.

• 6:01Speaker 00

  Oh, there we go.

• 6:02Joe Rogan?

  Or probably make hard times, rather. Soft people make hard times. So this is these folks working in it.

• 6:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, but this would be the new version. I think in the old days, in Toronto anyway, they used to get into the pits.

• 6:13Joe Rogan?

  God.

• 6:14Speaker 00

  You know, so, yeah.

• 6:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, man, there's jobs out there that fucking suck. I was watching this video today where this young lady was complaining about her job and that it just consumes her entire life and she doesn't want to do it anymore. And then like people were complaining in the comments that she's lazy. I'm like, no, like she hates her job. It's entirely reasonable. It's a little kind of crazy that everybody wants to declare to the whole world what their personal issues are about their op- I mean, social media has made it very weird that all these people just get attention for something that you essentially used to just talk about with friends.

• 6:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely, and that's part of the problem, isn't it? I mean, I mean, every time we, we make these statements, we make it to a public, so everything becomes political.

• 6:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:58Speaker 00

  You know, and, and suddenly everyone's, you know, moaning at you because you say you hate your job. It's such a weird.

• 7:05Joe Rogan?

  Such a weird time.

• 7:06Speaker 00

  Time. And, and this is one of my things, is one of the things I'm obsessed about. By the way, we better tell people.

• 7:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Graham, you have a, well, I found out about you from our talent coordinator at the mothership, who's my good friend, Adam Eget, who loves you to death. And he loves your work, and he loves the shows that you've created. He's a huge, huge fan. So this was all because of Adam. This all came about because of Adam.

• 7:28Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 7:28Joe Rogan?

  And then I heard the story, and I was like, oh my God, they did that guy dirty. They did him so dirty. And it was one of the examples. Why don't you tell the story of how it went down, so everybody could kind of get it from your words, which I'm sure would be better than me. This episode is brought to you by The Mosquito Bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part, it's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat, where the stakes were life and death.

• 8:10Joe Rogan?

  Directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights, and starring Nicholas Galitzine, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl, now playing in theaters. This episode is brought to you by Visible. As fall hits, we enter another season of change. Time to shift gears, drop the dead weight, and upgrade the wardrobe for the drop in temperature. But one thing that doesn't need to change? Your phone. The smartest upgrade this season isn't a new phone. It's a better wireless plan. Switch to Visible, the ultimate wireless hack. You get unlimited 5G data and unlimited hotspot powered by Verizon for just $25 a month. That means keeping the phone you already have,

• 8:55Joe Rogan?

  ditching your overpriced phone bill, and pocketing some savings for yourself. All the perks of big wireless for half the cost. Switch today at visible.com. The Visible plan starts at just $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month with promo code ROGEN. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. After a year away, Canelo Alvarez is back in the ring October 31st, facing undefeated Christian Mobily live on The Zone. And DraftKings Sportsbook has you covered for the fight. With DraftKings Sportsbook, your number one sportsbook for live betting,

• 9:38Joe Rogan?

  you can stay connected as the action unfolds and make your picks in real time. Whether you're locked in for the main event or watching the full card with friends, DraftKings Sportsbook gives you another way to follow the fights you already care about. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use the code ROGEN. New DraftKings Sportsbook customers can spend $5 and get $200 in total bonuses within 21 days. That's code ROGEN. In partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, call 1-800-MYRESSET. 21 and over, Virginia only. Eligibility restrictions apply. $50 in non-withdrawable bonus bets issued every seven days via Click to Claim for 21 days. Bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Limited time offer.

• 10:25Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 10:25Joe Rogan?

  Fucking it up.

• 10:26Speaker 00

  I'm not really good. I've never been good. I've spent the last, you know, most of my life. I'm fifty, fifty-seven now, and I spent most of my life forming a sort of, a sort of, what's the word? You know, what's that word? Self-deprecating, humorous personality. So I would come out and I would make fun of myself. I can't do that anymore because my situation is so bizarre that anything I say that's self-deprecating will just get reported as truth and all sorts of things. You can't make jokes in my situation. You know, it's so weird.

• 11:00Joe Rogan?

  So let's explain your situation, how it started.

• 11:02Speaker 00

  Well, I was a comedy writer. I started writing journalism in Ireland when I was very young, about nineteen years old. And I was hanging around with some funny people. We were writing sketches and stuff like that. So I went over to UK and I got in, I was just very, we sent our sketches to producers and we just, we worked very hard to get on TV. That succeeded. And then I kept having early success. I had a sitcom called Father Ted, which was about some Irish priests who were so bad that they'd been banished to a tiny island in the middle of nowhere. That was a huge success, probably my biggest success. Then I went on to a sitcom, IT Crowd, Black Books was a big one over here.

• 11:47Speaker 00

  But all of them I co-wrote or wrote on my own.

• 11:50Joe Rogan?

  And people have to understand that for people that are fan of English comedy, like your shows were legendary. These are amazing shows.

• 11:56Speaker 00

  Thank you. That's really kind of you to say. Yeah, they're really big. They're big over there, you know.

• 12:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, huge.

• 12:01Speaker 00

  Some of them, some of them travel over here. Black Books did very well over here. IT Crowd, I think, is probably the second most known one.

• 12:09Joe Rogan?

  I think we're suffering a bit from content fatigue.

• 12:11Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 12:12Joe Rogan?

  It's almost too much to choose from.

• 12:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, there's no real reason to, I mean, you know, the only reason I would say to watch them is, is, you know, some of them are, some of them really hit the target, you know.

• 12:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, some of them are great. Watch them because they're great, but I'm just saying that the problem with anybody finding out about a new show.

• 12:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:30Joe Rogan?

  Today, they're like, oh, jeez, another one I have to pay attention to? How?

• 12:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. And I think that- That's got to burst soon. I think we're, I mean, AI means the whole, who knows what the landscape will be like next year, you know?

• 12:41Joe Rogan?

  It's weird.

• 12:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:42Joe Rogan?

  It's really weird. I watched an amazing video that someone put out today of a small film that they made just with prompts. And it was some cyberpunk thing.

• 12:55Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 12:56Joe Rogan?

  Did you see that?

• 12:56Speaker 00

  I know, it's insane.

• 12:58Joe Rogan?

  It is the next level. It's so good. It's like, I'd watch that movie.

• 13:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:03Joe Rogan?

  And they just made it in a few moments with prompts.

• 13:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:07Joe Rogan?

  Like, it's over.

• 13:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, except, I mean, the interesting thing, though, is I think, I better get back to my story, because I

• 13:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh, we'll get to it. Don't worry. This is how we do things.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  But the interesting thing is that I think personally, there might be a revolution in those kind of smaller films that just need a few people. You know, what's a good example? Steven Soderbergh's early movies, Tarantino with the, with Reservoir Dogs.

• 13:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 13:31Speaker 00

  You might find people actually returning to human beings and, because I didn't know, I mean, maybe it'll, I'm sure it will change, but at the moment, there's a real uncanny valley feeling from all of these AI videos.

• 13:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, this one has an uncanny valley for sure. See if you can find it, Jamie. Cyberpunk, somebody released it on X. It is, I forget which engine use, they used.

• 13:50Speaker 00

  It's extraordinary.

• 13:51Joe Rogan?

  There's a battle with all these engines, you know, to see who's got the best.

• 13:54Speaker 00

  I'm waiting it out, you know? I mean, I mean, it's just like, like, just tell me what tools I can use to tell stories, and then I'll do them.

• 14:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, people are, this is it. Go full screen on this. Give me some volume. This is so wild. Like, that, that woman looks incredibly lifelike, but a little weird right there with the hair.

• 14:14Speaker 00

  Play the music, it's gonna get us flagged.

• 14:16Joe Rogan?

  Okay, we don't need to play the music. The music is not that good, anyway. It doesn't mean anything.

• 14:21Speaker 00

  And there's things with the lighting and stuff that don't really make sense, but that's, I'm being stupid, I'm being picky, you know?

• 14:26Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, you're not being picky. It's like, we're being accurate. Like, if you were an expert, and you were assessing whether or not this was real, I'd say, right there, definitely not real. This is not real. This is artificially generated. But that could also be a style, right? Like, if you think about Robert Rodriguez when he did Sin City. There's a lot of that that didn't look real. You know, like you could get weird with filming just to make the experience, you know, more bizarre because you're in this crazy sci fi thing. You could kind of make it look a little fake and it would be dope.

• 14:56Speaker 00

  I think also when you think of what AI is gonna do to voice lines. Like if you look at a game like Grand Theft Auto, now you're gonna be able to have generative dialogue from, from the characters, you know, it's insane.

• 15:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, you're also gonna have porn where you have any woman that you want, that you desire in your life. Like you could take photos of someone that you know and turn them into someone who's like, is so attracted to you. And just can't wait to have sex with you, like POV porn from your neighbor.

• 15:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:29Joe Rogan?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 15:29Speaker 00

  I know. And it's like, it's like we're there, we're, we're getting there, we're about to head into that. I mean, you've read Jonathan Haidt's.

• 15:36Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 15:36Speaker 00

  Book about, uh, I can't remember which one it was. Oh, Cuddling of America.

• 15:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:40Speaker 00

  Like two thousand and seven was when depression in teenage girls went.

• 15:46Joe Rogan?

  Yup, self harm, depression, suicidal ideology, actual suicide went up. All of it went up in this comparison culture.

• 15:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, but also the iPhone.

• 15:54Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 15:55Speaker 00

  It was the iPhone.

• 15:56Joe Rogan?

  That's what the comparison culture comes from. I mean, that's the real comparison culture because they're comparing themselves to the Kardashians and.

• 16:02Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 16:02Joe Rogan?

  People with massive amounts of plastic surgery and filters.

• 16:05Speaker 00

  But now I saw a guy yesterday who said, we're about to enter a two thousand and seven moment. In, in other words, the invention of the iPhone, we're about to have another big change. And, and we haven't even spoken about the last one. I mean, that's part of my, my thing. Let me, let me go back and go back into the story. But basically I was like a, a, a very successful comedy writer, probably about as successful as a non on screen comedy writer can get in the UK. I won something like six BAFTAs, I think in the end, five or six BAFTAs. I'm not being stupid, I just genuinely can't remember. And one of them, they didn't give me the plaque for, I must tell you that at some point. But like, um, but I won them, got a standing ovation at the Comedy Awards. And then the moment I started talking about women's rights, they took everything, absolutely everything away from me.

• 16:51Joe Rogan?

  So that's your, this is your version of it.

• 16:55Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 16:56Joe Rogan?

  That women's rights.

• 16:57Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 16:58Joe Rogan?

  And this is a version, this is why it gets real weird. You know, because.

• 17:05Joe Rogan?

  As soon as you say, there are some men that are gonna use this. As soon as you say there are some men who we've known forever have been sexual deviants and perverts and psychotic creeps.

• 17:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:18Joe Rogan?

  And you're giving them an out.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:20Joe Rogan?

  Instantaneously, you're letting them wear dresses and now they can't be touched. That is a crazy thing to do.

• 17:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:26Joe Rogan?

  And that doesn't deny the existence of trans people or in any way be transphobic. It's not saying that a person can't choose to be whoever the fuck they essentially feel they are, their true self.

• 17:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, I don't know how you feel. I'm not, I don't wanna restrict you, but as soon as you start allowing men in dresses to get into women's spaces and you frame it that way, you say this is about women's rights, then it's chaos. Then there's no rational conversation when it should be totally rational.

• 17:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:55Joe Rogan?

  With those factors, knowing that some men are creeps, knowing that women are more vulnerable and you're gonna allow these potential creeps to have carte blanche and just go into the women's spaces, like...

• 18:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:05Joe Rogan?

  That is, that you, the screaming at me and the calling me a Nazi makes me think I'm over the target.

• 18:12Speaker 00

  Well, you know, I think, I could be wrong here. This is a theory, you obviously know more about it than me, but like, I think that when they tried to get you for Covid, I actually think that that was sort of left over from you interviewing Meghan Murphy and Abigail Schreier. I think they really hated that you were giving them a platform, because when you think of it, no one else did. No one else did. If you look back at Meghan Murphy and Abigail Schreier's appearances, and Abigail Schreier wrote the most important book about transitioning, uh, the transitioning of young women, Irreversible Damage, and she's had a terrible time as well.

• 18:45Joe Rogan?

  She has had a terrible time.

• 18:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:47Joe Rogan?

  And unfairly, because it's a real issue, but this is the thing about a real issue. When real issues come up, the, when there's a real, like ideological debate going on, like, hey, what is actually really going on? That's when things get the most hostile. Because when you can't really defend your position logically, then you start using pejoratives and turning everyone into Nazis and everyone into fascists. And you start really fucking the argument up in a way that like if you're a normal person and I'm talking to you, well, I'm gonna choose to not talk to you anymore because you're not rational. I don't like talking to Mike. He goes crazy and calls me a Nazi every time we disagree with something. That is logically something that you should be debating, whether

• 19:31Joe Rogan?

  or not children have the ability to make these decisions at an early age and whether or not there's some kind of social contagion going on. That's what Abigail brought up. And I think that's super accurate.

• 19:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I mean, like, you know, this, I don't want to go too strong too early, but let me take an example, right? The word trans people, I see, I see people using it all the time as if it has, as if it is a stable category. And it's not. It's not a stable category at all. It, you know, when most people hear the word trans people, they think transsexuals. But the number, according to, I think, a 2016 study, the number of men who identify as trans and aren't having any surgery at all is something like 90%, right? So you have a whole, whole group of people out there who are transvestites, okay? To give them the actual word that, that, that refers to their condition.

• 20:27Joe Rogan?

  Or used to forever.

• 20:29Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:29Joe Rogan?

  Until it became a pejorative.

• 20:31Speaker 00

  Well, then it just disappeared. It was, all the transvestites just disappeared.

• 20:36Joe Rogan?

  I think it's offensive now. I don't think they like it.

• 20:38Speaker 00

  They don't like it because they know that if you use that term, it, it reveals the truth. And the truth is that 90% of these men are putting on a dress and expecting to be given every single right that women have. And it's, and it's an absolute lie. It's a, it's a delusion. It's a mass delusion. It's a cult. It's, it's like, and I genuinely don't think it would have existed without the internet. You know, the internet superpowered it and they gave rise to things like, you, you, you see it online, the same repeated phrases over and over again.

• 21:10Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 21:11Speaker 00

  Trans women are women. How are you gonna keep, how are you gonna keep men out? That's one thing they say about, about single-sex spaces. How are you gonna keep men out? Well, you know, we were always able to in the past because most men were decent and weren't trying to get into women's spaces. But suddenly now it's a problem, you know?

• 21:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 21:27Speaker 00

  And so basically what we've done is we've created this false kind of civil rights movement. It's not a civil rights movement. It's a male push to undo every single thing that suffragettes won over 100 years ago. You know? Have you ever heard of the urinary leash? Do you know this phrase?

• 21:44Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 21:45Speaker 00

  The urinary leash is, was, was what was called when, when the suffragettes, uh, before the suffragettes won the right to vote, uh, and single-sex spaces and so on. The women of a household were not able to go too far from their house because there were no public toilets. And all the public toilets, there were public toilets, but they were mixed. So men would, would, would be in them and they couldn't go into the toilets with the men. So you were, you had a urinary leash. You had a leash that kept you close to your home.

• 22:14Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ.

• 22:15Speaker 00

  And that was one of the ways that men were able to exercise such power over women at that time.

• 22:20Joe Rogan?

  Wow. If you're a long time listener, you probably heard me talk about ExpressVPN and how great it is at keeping your data private and secure. But that's not all it's good for. Did you know that services like Netflix limit your options based on your location? It's called geo-blocking. And the fucked up part is that you, the paying customer, have to pay even more and subscribe to another streaming service to watch these titles. If you use ExpressVPN though, you can unlock thousands of new shows and movies worldwide without having to spend hundreds of extra dollars a year. ExpressVPN is an app that lets you change your IP address to practically anywhere in the world.

• 22:59Joe Rogan?

  Like if you want to access the entire library of free TV and movies on BBC, iPlayer, just use ExpressVPN to switch your location to the UK. In fact, you can change your location to 105 different countries. It's fast and easy, too. With just one click, you can hop on over to a place where the content you want isn't restricted. And right now, you can get four extra months free if you tap the banner or go to expressvpn.com/rogan. That's expressvpn.com/rogan. And if you're watching on YouTube. Get your four free months by scanning the QR code on screen or by clicking the link in the description.

• 23:41Speaker 00

  And so.

• 23:42Joe Rogan?

  A urinary leash.

• 23:44Speaker 00

  That's what they called it, yeah. And now, we have some, we have members of this so-called civil rights group, who are basically just trying to bring back the urinary leash, you know? So it's not safe for women to go into a space, because they genuinely don't know if they'll share the space with a man. So, you know, it's, anyway, one of the problems with this fight is there are so many aspects to it, that it's really, I've been fighting it for eight years.

• 24:12Joe Rogan?

  Did you, so, were you stunned by the rea-, let's bring it back to the original thing that you did, your original offence to the cult.

• 24:22Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 24:23Joe Rogan?

  Where they came for you.

• 24:24Speaker 00

  My original offence was, I think, sharing a piece by a feminist named Heather Brunsdale Evans, that said exactly what you said, just at the beginning, you know, a few minutes ago, where you said, "Yeah, people have, have things going on in their head, they need to be respected, they need to be helped." And then someone wrote back immediately, I was actually, I was actually getting surgery for cancer at the time, and someone wrote back and said, "I wish the cancer had won." Right?

• 24:50Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 24:51Speaker 00

  And this was like sharing a very, very mild piece, that just basically said, "Women deserve rights." Okay? So, that reaction, I thought, "Holy cow." And then, but the strangest thing was all my friends and colleagues, they just, they just completely ignored what was happening to me. Not a single person stood up to say, "Hey, I know Graham, I know Graham Linehan, he's not a bigot." And I'd made lots of these people famous, you know? Not a single person stood up for me. And the next thing that happened was that a sex offender, and we found this out later, but a sex offender and kind of serial litigant in the UK, he reported me to the police, sued

• 25:33Speaker 00

  me on the same weekend, and, and the police came to my home, or no, they phoned me that time.

• 25:44Speaker 00

  And since then, I've been basically, the police just visit every so often on the orders of these, and this guy was sexually, he sexually assaulted a fourteen year old boy, you know, and basically the police in the UK are working for these men, you know, so.

• 25:58Joe Rogan?

  So he can complain anytime he wants and they just visit you?

• 26:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:02Joe Rogan?

  And there's no repercussions?

• 26:04Speaker 00

  No, not so far. He's been doing it for eight years and, and he's had women in prison cells overnight, you know, I mean, it's, it's, it's his hobby, you know, so this guy was the guy who reported me to police and then The Guardian reported that as Graham Linehan is, is warned by police for harassing a trans woman.

• 26:24Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ.

• 26:25Speaker 00

  So now everybody is looking at this and they're thinking, oh, a trans woman, transsexual, poor transsexual, no, again, just a bloke who's put on a dress and has, and has taken a piss, you know, so, so that, that destroyed my name, thanks to The Guardian, and then after that, I couldn't get anyone to speak to me, like, you know, I mean, Father Ted might be big in the UK, but in Ireland, it's a bit of a national institution, you know, it, it allowed the Irish to laugh at the Catholic Church, which for years had, had a sort of oppressive effect over the Irish, so they weren't able to laugh at it, and suddenly Father Ted came out and was a great kind of release to be able to laugh at silly

• 27:07Speaker 00

  things. We weren't really attacking the church, we were just making silly jokes, very surreal show, you know, and, but, but nonetheless, it kind of, it kind of chipped away at, at the Catholic Church and, and the Catholic Church just kind of lost a lot of power in, in Ireland. So I thought in Ireland, it would be, I would be at least understood and, and listened out, people would listen, listen to me, listen me out, is that the phrase?

• 27:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, hear me out.

• 27:37Speaker 00

  Hear me out, and, and no, like, there's a show in Ireland called The Late Late Show, and like, I brought out my biography a few years ago, called Tough Crowd, which I should, I should plug, and The Late Late Show, which interviews every single person who's, who's, who's got the letter O apostrophe in their name, hasn't interviewed me, and all of the Irish, Irish media has just pretend I, I've died, they just pretend I've died.

• 28:05Joe Rogan?

  All because of that Guardian article.

• 28:07Speaker 00

  Not just because of that, because I just wouldn't, wouldn't, I refused to back down. They were saying, you know, I was, I was constantly being told to apologize and I hadn't done anything. I would have people, people online would, would do fake screenshots of me apologizing for sending my pictures of my genitalia to women on a forum. And they spread that, you know, and, and rather than my friends standing up for me, people would approach them on Twitter and say, why are you following Graham Linehan? He's a bigot. And they would just go, oh, sorry, and just don't follow me. And so I lost three hundred thousand, four hundred thousand followers in a, in, in a few months. And, and then we went into COVID and Twitter banned me for two years.

• 28:52Speaker 00

  So then that became Graham Linehan.

• 28:54Joe Rogan?

  Did you had, had, was there a specific post or was it just because your reputation?

• 28:59Speaker 00

  It was a combination of things. I was, I was causing more trouble for them by, I don't know, what did I do? I went on to the website. This is a funny, this connects me with Alex Jones. Do you know this?

• 29:11Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 29:12Speaker 00

  Did, did he, did Adam not send you this?

• 29:14Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no.

• 29:15Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. So, so one of the things I did was I went on an app called Her Social, which is a lesbian app. And I did it to show that men were joining these apps and they weren't, they would, you know, some of them would put on a bit of lipstick, but most of them were just, they would look like you or me, you know? Yeah. And they go onto this app and they say that they, they put down their pronouns as she/her.

• 29:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 29:38Speaker 00

  And they call themselves lesbians. And if a lesbian complains about this, they're booted off the site. Okay. So I decided I would, I would go on and, and call myself she/her and go on the site. So I did it. And then I had some friends who put me in Photoshop and did me in different, in different outfits. And one of them, I looked like my mother in the sixties, just wearing kind of Jackie Kennedy, uh, pink beret. And Alex Jones was interested in the same story. And he might, I think I sent the link to you, Jamie, but like, oh yeah, here it is.

• 30:10Joe Rogan?

  Alex Jones, Friday girl, lesbian app.

• 30:15Speaker 03

  I'm not usually for transvestites and stuff. This one here, this is a... Oh, and you see the symbol they've got here. You know what that symbol is right there?

• 30:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. The symbols all mean something.

• 30:28Joe Rogan?

  What does that symbol mean?

• 30:29Speaker 00

  I don't know. It doesn't mean anything.

• 30:33Joe Rogan?

  Fucking Alex.

• 30:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I fooled Alex. But like, like...

• 30:37Joe Rogan?

  But the thing is, that's not outside of what you could find on there.

• 30:40Speaker 00

  No, absolutely.

• 30:41Joe Rogan?

  That's what's crazy.

• 30:41Speaker 00

  But I was re-canceled because of it. Because they only reported about me. They said Graham Linehan went on a lesbian app.

• 30:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 30:48Speaker 00

  Pretending to be a woman.

• 30:49Joe Rogan?

  So then you're a pervert.

• 30:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. So, and...

• 30:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you're a hypocrite.

• 30:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. And none of my arguments are making it to the mainstream press because...

• 31:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God, I wish I knew about this earlier.

• 31:03Speaker 00

  I wish I'd sent you my book earlier.

• 31:05Joe Rogan?

  The scandal never made it to the States, except for Adam telling me.

• 31:08Speaker 00

  Uh, my scandal?

• 31:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, to like the comedy community in the States. We didn't hear about it. There was almost, there's too many of them. And then the thing was, with J.K. Rowling, that was so big that they went for the Queen.

• 31:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:21Joe Rogan?

  They're trying to take down literally the most successful author of human history.

• 31:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:26Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't, hasn't she sold more copies than the Bible at this point?

• 31:29Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 31:30Joe Rogan?

  Is that, is that accurate?

• 31:31Speaker 00

  No, I don't know, probably.

• 31:32Joe Rogan?

  I think the Harry Potter books have sold more, or are at least similar to the sales of the Bible. She just wrote it in her lifetime. Bible's been around for 2,000 years. 2,000 years had to start.

• 31:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:46Joe Rogan?

  And that's... And they went for her, and it worked.

• 31:48Speaker 00

  They went for her. And there's like seven, I mean, when you think about it, there's like seven or eight generations of kids have read these books.

• 31:54Joe Rogan?

  Best-selling series in history. So, Harry Potter series alone is exceeding 600 million copies sold worldwide.

• 32:02Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's crazy. And you know, and, and, and the kids who read her books are the ones trying to cancel her. The kids who read her books aren't, aren't taking on board any of the lessons of the books. It's very strange.

• 32:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's hard to be courageous. It's hard to step outside of the narrative. And when there's like a very forceful narrative that's being pushed, like... Like, you know, what Elon likes to call the woke mind virus. Like, whatever that thing is that has like these very clear rules that you must follow. Like, people get real scared.

• 32:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:35Joe Rogan?

  And they they get real aggressive when they get real scared. They don't want to get canceled themselves. They become a they become some sort of an enforcer for these ideologies.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:45Joe Rogan?

  And it gets contagious and it turns into some sort of a weird culture war that's akin to a religious war.

• 32:52Speaker 00

  They call it could be that the other side call it a culture war to try and to try and to try and make it only that, right? You know, they they they they they talk about it as a culture war to try and kind of keep it under in a framework they understand.

• 33:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 33:11Speaker 00

  But it's not a culture war, really. It's like it's it's it's women's lives, you know? You're talking about fifty one percent of the population. You know, they fought for these rights a hundred years ago. And and now they're they're trying to take them away by stealth. There's a there's a nurse in the UK at the moment. Her name is Sandy Peggy. And she had a doctor, six foot two rugby playing doctor, who had started identifying as a woman, I think in twenty twenty two, right? Using women's toilets in an NHS hospital every time. She was bothered by this, but she tried not to say anything, okay? Until finally, she had her period and she went in and he was there and he asked her to leave. She's now going through the whatever we tribunal.

• 33:55Joe Rogan?

  Wait, he asked her to leave?

• 33:56Speaker 00

  No, I'm sorry, I put that wrong. She asked him to leave.

• 33:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, oh, I see.

• 33:59Speaker 00

  And he refused. He took it up as a complaint and now she's going through a work tribunal. Not him. He's not he's not in trouble for going into women's toilets. She's in trouble. And that's the whole of the UK at the moment.

• 34:12Joe Rogan?

  How did this happen? Let's let's let's. You're an intelligent guy and you've had eight years to think about this.

• 34:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:18Joe Rogan?

  What do you think happened where people lost all ability to objectively analyze all the various little things that are at work in this?

• 34:28Speaker 00

  It's partly a problem with the internet, I think. I think it's it's first of all, the internet spread it. One of the things that happened was the the the there was a real supercharged moment for trans ideology when Tumblr banned porn. Because all the trans identified kids who were all over Tumblr and porn was a big thing on Tumblr.

• 34:50Joe Rogan?

  I don't remember Tumblr.

• 34:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, it was a big kind of visual site.

• 34:54Joe Rogan?

  I never used it. Did you ever use Tumblr?

• 34:56Speaker 04

  Didn't use it, but I know what he's talking about. Yeah, it was big for generation.

• 35:00Joe Rogan?

  Was it a social media thing?

• 35:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was big amongst teenage girls, of course. So you've already got a worry there, you know.

• 35:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, now I remember it.

• 35:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. And they all came over to Twitter and that's the moment when Twitter became extremely toxic in terms of talking about this issue. And so there was a kind of a double thing going on. Like, I remember when I was talking to people I knew about the issue, they simply couldn't talk about it. It was the strangest thing.

• 35:27Speaker 04

  They'd get scared.

• 35:28Speaker 00

  I know, but even in personal, one-on-one, they can't talk about it.

• 35:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's religion, but it's showing itself in a new form.

• 35:35Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 35:36Joe Rogan?

  It's religion for secular people.

• 35:38Speaker 00

  It's a religion.

• 35:39Joe Rogan?

  It's a religion that's terrifying because like the consequences of not obeying or you get ostracized and you get attacked and you get deplatformed and de-banked and do this and do that and labeled a bigot.

• 35:50Speaker 00

  I had a West End musical, Ready to Go, based on Father Ted. It was like, you know, you can't really ever guarantee a hit in terms of musicals, but it was the closest thing to a guaranteed hit you could get. It was my pension. I'd worked on it for about three or four years. They canceled it. We had it up on its feet. We had songs written. You know, we'd even performed it in front of audiences a couple of times just to generate excitement and interest. It was ready to go.

• 36:22Joe Rogan?

  So how did so many people go along with it? Where you can't, how is it that you can make this reasonable argument on this podcast about why you think this is the case and what you think is going on and this is why you stood up against it? And why can't there be some sort of a logical debate about this? Like, how is this one issue so insanely...

• 36:50Joe Rogan?

  Third rail, where you can't even touch it. Like, people don't even try to touch it.

• 36:55Speaker 00

  Uh, there's a few reasons for that.

• 36:57Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. There is such a thing as having too many options to choose from. Like, when you're scrolling on the TV, trying to find something to watch, or... Have you been to one of those ice cream shops? Where they have hundreds of different toppings to choose from? It's overwhelming. The same thing can happen when you're hiring and you get inundated with applications. Well, it's time to stop stressing and use ZipRecruiter instead. Their innovative resume database can help you find and connect with the best people for your role. Try it for free now at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. What makes ZipRecruiter's resume database so special is the advanced filtering feature.

• 37:40Joe Rogan?

  You can use it to hone in on exactly what you're looking for from the hundreds of thousands of resumes that are uploaded monthly to the site. And when you find a potential candidate, you can unlock their contact info instantly. Skip the candidate overload, streamline your hiring with ZipRecruiter. See why four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Just go to this exclusive web address, ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Again, right now, try it for free. Again, that's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire.

• 38:20Speaker 00

  One of the main reasons is that the language of this movement is so deliberately obscure. Like, they did a poll recently. They found out that when people were talking about trans women in women's sports, a lot of people, I think the majority of people, I'm not sure what the percentages were, but the majority of people thought they were talking about trans identified females in women's sports.

• 38:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 38:43Speaker 00

  Yeah. And in fact, even now, when you say trans women, some people are thinking trans men, you know, and I have to tell, I have to sometimes tell people the way to do it is think trans means opposite. So if it's trans men, it's a woman. If it's a trans woman, it's a man. That's all it means. It just means opposite. And so this language, which is constantly being used, if you see a press report about a, you know, this happens all the time. You see a press report that says something like, I saw a great one that said something like, woman takes cocaine and then kills Alsatian, or something like this. And it's only that we know, it's only that me and the feminists who are fighting this know that it's a man, that tell me it's a man. Every other, every other person reading that newspaper thinks they're talking about a woman.

• 39:26Joe Rogan?

  It happens all the time. It's happened here.

• 39:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:29Joe Rogan?

  It's happened here when a trans person has done something, they call it a she, but it's a man that did it.

• 39:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, it's very strange.

• 39:36Speaker 00

  And it's the press. It's the press are, I mean, really, when you say, why isn't it possible to be talked about? It's because the press are helping confuse people, you know? The press are actually aiding, like, if you get a pedophile and you report him to be a man, oh, sorry, a woman, when he's actually a man, then it's even harder to step back and go, we shouldn't have done that. Because you've actually, you've actually already committed a terrible sin against journalism.

• 40:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 40:06Speaker 00

  You know, you're not telling the truth.

• 40:07Joe Rogan?

  You're not being accurate, yeah.

• 40:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:09Joe Rogan?

  And it's just so strange that this is so potent that it allows people to give up those, give up their journalistic integrity.

• 40:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's extraordinary. But some of them don't even have any for the first, in the first place, a lot of, like, one of the things that happened when I was, started talking about this, is I started noticing, like, there was a magazine in England called Total Film, and that was calling me a bigot. And all these different, and my old magazines that I worked for were calling me a bigot. And then you see photographs of the guys, and it's always, you know, they've always got black fingernail polish, and they think they're a new kind of human, you know? So you're not a new type of human being, if you were.

• 40:46Joe Rogan?

  And the thing about the internet is allowed them to all group up.

• 40:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:48Joe Rogan?

  Whereas before the internet, it's a very small percentage of people that have autogynephilia, or that, you know.

• 40:55Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 40:56Joe Rogan?

  Fall into those categories. And we've always kicked those people out of women's rooms. And this is one of the really important things when you're talking about, like, trans bigotry.

• 41:05Joe Rogan?

  It's only about men. It's not about trans men. No, no one cares.

• 41:11Speaker 00

  Well, here's the thing, right?

• 41:12Joe Rogan?

  Trans men going into the men's room?

• 41:13Speaker 00

  First of all, first of all, right, this, that's one of the earliest kind of smears against the feminists fighting this. Who are all in the UK, by the way, left wing women, classic left wing, environmental, environmentalist.

• 41:27Joe Rogan?

  Say it, they're kooks.

• 41:29Speaker 00

  No, but.

• 41:29Joe Rogan?

  A bunch of old childish cat ladies, as J D Vance calls them, a bunch of kooks.

• 41:34Speaker 00

  No, these are the, these are the good guys, these are the good guys. And they've been, and you know, but they've been smeared as right wing bigots, you know, even though they've spent all their life fighting things like section twenty eight.

• 41:42Joe Rogan?

  I see what you're saying. So the people that were, yeah.

• 41:45Speaker 00

  You know, there's, there's different types of feminism and I don't think that's sometimes appreciated in, in conservative circles.

• 41:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's Meghan Murphy.

• 41:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 41:52Joe Rogan?

  Good friend of mine. She's a legit feminist, like legit.

• 41:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 41:57Joe Rogan?

  Saying, hey, this is an infringement on women's spaces and immediately, everything, same thing as you, called a bigot. But she's in a different space because she's on the internet, you know, like her, but she got kicked off of Twitter.

• 42:08Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. She was off longer than me, five years.

• 42:11Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 42:12Speaker 00

  You know, and, and being kicked off of Twitter allowed people to further lie about me online until my reputation was completely destroyed. So I went in for a meeting with the people who produced the Father Ted musical, who also produced Father Ted back in the day. And I walked in and everybody, I, I saw someone I worked with for years, a runner who had grown up with me as I, as I'd worked with them on different productions. Just looking at me like, like Elliot Gould, who was it, Elliot Gould, no, what was the guy's name at the end of Invasion of the Body Snatchers?

• 42:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 42:49Speaker 00

  And I thought, what the hell was that look? And then I went into the office and they offered me two hundred thousand pounds to walk away from the musical.

• 42:56Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 42:56Speaker 00

  And they thought, they thought I would take it because I was so desperate because I had lost every bit of work I had. And, and I thought about it and at one point I said to them, well, as long as I can come in and watch the occasional rehearsal, just to see if it's going well, you know? And, and they said, no, we want a clean break.

• 43:17Speaker 00

  And I had brought them the idea. I had more or less written the whole thing. And they just thought they could, they could do that to me. So I thought, no, I'm not taking part in any further efforts to blacken my own name. So I said, no, I'm not doing it. And they won't make the musical now.

• 43:36Joe Rogan?

  So I, I know the internet was a part of this, but how did it get so kooky? How did it get so kooky where people are willing to put women in these vulnerable positions? Because they don't want to offend this entirely tiny, very, very vocal part of the world.

• 43:56Speaker 00

  Because, as you say, because these, this tiny, very vocal, very, and very, and you know, there's, I want to make this clear. There are a lot of trans identified people who are completely sane.

• 44:05Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 44:06Speaker 00

  Who know what sex they are.

• 44:07Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 44:08Speaker 00

  Who are not trying to impose themselves in, in places where they're not wanted, or where they would disturb or frighten women. They're great, and I'm friends with a lot of them.

• 44:16Joe Rogan?

  And they've existed forever.

• 44:18Speaker 00

  Well, you know, when they say they've-

• 44:20Joe Rogan?

  But there's always been people like that in the world.

• 44:22Speaker 00

  Sure. But there's, but you know, when you come to the current iteration of the word trans people, what does it mean then? Like, you know, when you're talking about just transvestism.

• 44:30Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right, right. That's where it gets squirrely.

• 44:32Speaker 00

  Existed forever. Did they wear each other's furs, you know, in, in the caves? It, it's like, it's just clothes.

• 44:40Joe Rogan?

  Right. But there's been historical tales forever. There was actually a famous one about, from the old west, about this guy that was married to this woman. And then when the woman died, he was out of town. And the doctor found out that this woman that he was married to was actually a man.

• 44:54Speaker 00

  Oh, sure.

• 44:55Joe Rogan?

  And then, so then he committed suicide.

• 44:57Speaker 00

  Oh, right.

• 44:58Joe Rogan?

  Because he couldn't let everybody know that he was banging a dude this whole time.

• 45:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:01Joe Rogan?

  But my point is, there's always been people that identified as a woman, but there also has always been perverts. And so to deny the existence of one while pushing the other, it's like, yes, yes, yes. I agree. There have been people that feel like they're in the wrong body and the wrong gender. That's always existed. It's a reality of human civilization. Also, what's that?

• 45:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:21Joe Rogan?

  That's a guy in a dress with a hard on.

• 45:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:22Joe Rogan?

  Like, there's, autogynophilia is a real thing. Men get turned on- By dressing up like women. Also, there's certain perverts that don't wanna wear a dress, but they know if they do wear a dress, now they can get into the women's room.

• 45:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:34Joe Rogan?

  They're gonna do that, too.

• 45:35Speaker 00

  Of course they are. If you put the line here, men will come up to that line.

• 45:38Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 45:39Speaker 00

  If you put it up here, men will come up to that line.

• 45:41Joe Rogan?

  You can't defend that.

• 45:42Speaker 00

  You can't.

• 45:42Joe Rogan?

  You can't do it under the guise of compassion, because, again, it's only about men. When you talk about trans men, no one is complaining.

• 45:52Speaker 00

  Let me, let me tell you a little.

• 45:53Joe Rogan?

  In any way.

• 45:54Speaker 00

  Let me tell you something, a little something about that, right? As you, as you point out, they never talk about trans men. And in fact, when you think about it, who are the famous trans men? Very, very few of them.

• 46:04Joe Rogan?

  Elliot Page.

• 46:05Speaker 00

  Elliot Page. A few, a few other.

• 46:07Joe Rogan?

  That's the most famous one.

• 46:08Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 46:08Joe Rogan?

  Right? Because she was a famous actress, and then she became Elliot Page.

• 46:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, like, she, like, actually, let me tell you something about Elliot Page's voice. That'll be of interest. But, um, but, uh, uh, what was my point gonna be? Oh, yeah. Trans men added a whole trans deal, get the worst deal out of it. Trans women, all, all a man has to do is wear a dress, and he is suddenly a trans woman, right? But trans identified women, they get double mastectomies, hysterectomies in their twenties and thirties, you know? They get, uh, they go, every single young woman on testosterone will go into early menopause. Early menopause brings with it a risk of dementia, incontinence, itching and all sorts of fucking

• 46:53Speaker 00

  problems you don't wanna put up with when you're, these young women think they're gonna be young men, and they're actually turning into old women. And no one has told them this, Joe.

• 47:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, early menopause. I know it makes a lot of them infertile for life.

• 47:07Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's, one of the things that happens is, is when, um, you take testosterone, your ovaries confuse to, uh, I'm not sure, some other part of your internal organs, and that means it, it becomes infected, and that means, and that's why you see so many trans men having to have hysterectomies, you know?

• 47:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 47:26Speaker 00

  If, if, if a woman has her breasts removed, and then goes on to have a child later on in life, if they're lucky enough not to have been sterilized by the drugs, if they have a child later on in life. When the child cries, the tissue in their breasts will ache because there's always tissue left behind after those operations, and it will ache because it wants to feed the baby, but they can't.

• 47:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 47:49Speaker 00

  You know, no one tells these kids that, you know. The younger men who are, I've, I've met a detransitioner, his name's Richard Julip. He told me that there are, oh, actually, no, let me stick to trans men for a moment, you know. The only time that trans men get famous in the same way that trans women do is if they get pregnant, right?

• 48:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 48:10Speaker 00

  And then it's like they're on the cover of Time magazine or something.

• 48:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 48:14Speaker 00

  Because, oh, my God, a bearded pregnant lady, you know?

• 48:16Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 48:17Speaker 00

  And it's, it's, it's just, we've always known it, we've seen fairgrounds with bearded ladies. It's just testosterone. It's just an excess of testosterone. There's nothing magical or, or, or great about. In fact, it's very dangerous for women on testosterone to have, get pregnant because they could pass on. I mean, this is how horrible it is. There was a study in the UK published by a gender sociologist, I think she is, who works for Sheffield University. And, and the study said, this is, what's her name, Sally Hines, and the study said that even if there's a risk of deformity to a baby, a, a trans identified woman should

• 49:00Speaker 00

  continue taking testosterone because there was too much of an emphasis on babies born with normative bodies.

• 49:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

• 49:11Speaker 00

  I mean.

• 49:12Joe Rogan?

  So preventative medication is a denial.

• 49:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, it's just insane.

• 49:19Joe Rogan?

  Preventative medication would be a denial because you, you, you, you're denying the existence of people with disabilities as if they're not real.

• 49:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:28Joe Rogan?

  Or that they're not equal.

• 49:29Speaker 00

  It's something like that.

• 49:30Joe Rogan?

  That is so crazy.

• 49:31Speaker 00

  It, it basically, they can, they, you know, that's another thing with this debate, and there's other, there's, there's, well, anyway, sorry, I want to stick to trans men.

• 49:39Joe Rogan?

  But just that language is so Orwellian.

• 49:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, but if you look, look up.

• 49:43Joe Rogan?

  How cra- but what a crazy way to justify potentially harming a child.

• 49:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:49Joe Rogan?

  So we're putting too much emphasis on children that aren't harmed.

• 49:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, her, her self-identity is more important.

• 49:53Joe Rogan?

  That is so nuts.

• 49:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I'm try, I've been trying to tell people that this has been going on for years. That's the second most shocking story I know in this fight. Will I just tell you the first one?

• 50:06Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 50:07Speaker 00

  Okay, you know WPATH?

• 50:08Joe Rogan?

  WPATH, what is that?

• 50:10Speaker 00

  WPATH is meant to be the world leader for trans healthcare. It is where the whole world gets their orders for how to treat trans people, okay?

• 50:22Speaker 00

  It is, I, I, I, this is gonna blow you away, Joe. So, there's a, there's a woman named Mia Hughes, and she published a piece called, uh, she published a study called, uh, The WPATH Files. It hasn't been reported on anywhere, no one is talking about it, it's not a, it's, it, it came and went without, without causing barely a ripple. She found out that WPATH, which briefly tried to make UNIC a gender identity, right? She found out that they were linking to a website called the UNIC Archives. And the UNIC Archives is mainly a repository of about, I don't know, I have it written down, but it's something like

• 51:03Speaker 00

  8,000 short stories, something like that, and they're just pornography about people cutting their dicks off. WPATH linked to this site. Not only that, but something like 40% of the stories are tagged minor.

• 51:20Speaker 00

  Okay? So, these are the people who are cutting off young men's dicks, and they are sharing erotic pornography about cutting off young men's dicks. And, and I, Jamie has all the links. This may sound that I'm pulling it out of my ass because it's so hard to believe. That's another problem we have, some of these stories are so hard to believe.

• 51:41Joe Rogan?

  And it's so hard to inform people because you're only gonna hear about something like this on a podcast.

• 51:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly, the, the press won't report on it. And when you think about, and BBC, the BBC deliberately ignores, ignores this, the BBC is outrageous on this issue, but, um, but-

• 51:56Joe Rogan?

  But what did they do with Jimmy Savile?

• 51:58Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah, but this is like-

• 51:59Joe Rogan?

  Forever.

• 52:00Speaker 00

  But this is almost worse than Jimmy Savile because there's more kids being hurt, you know? And, and the UK is addicted to ignoring scandals and to hurting, you know, to allowing children to be hurt, you know? What's his name, Keir Starmer, the, are, are the, the UK Prime Minister. When he came in, he said he would end the culture wars. He hasn't ended the culture wars, he hides from them, while ordinary people still have to fight in court, people like me and, and, and various women who are fighting this nonsense. He's an absolute coward on this issue. But the thing about the WPATH files is WPATH, this place that's sharing-

• 52:34Speaker 00

  Pedophilic castration pornography is the world leader on trans healthcare. Okay, they're the ones that are bowed to on everything in this year. And they're the reason why doctors all over the world are giving these protocols to kids. Because there's a thing called the chain of trust that Mia Hughes writes about, which is an ear, nose and throat specialist has to believe that other doctors know what they're doing. And they have to believe that the head of any particular discipline knows what they're saying. And what's happening with WPATH is they're issuing all this stuff and it's all just crazy nonsense.

• 53:15Speaker 00

  One thing in the WPATH files, they found out was there was one letter from, I think one of the doctors associated with WPATH. And she said, I've only ever refused a transition diagnosis once. And that's when the patient was having a, that's because the patient had a psychotic episode in my office. That's the only reason she didn't say, yeah, you're a man, because she was having a psychotic episode. They were trying, they tried to transition a homeless guy. So when you think about it, he has the surgery and the next day he's back in the streets with a wound that needs to be cleaned. They tried to transition a homeless guy. That's the WPATH files.

• 53:55Joe Rogan?

  Is it their goal to just transition anybody? This episode is brought to you by the Apple Sports app. Guys, this is the ultimate best time of the year to be a sports fan. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer. The calendar is stacked, but it can also be hard to keep track of it all. And that is where the Apple Sports app comes into play. It is the fastest and easiest way to stay on top of all the action with scores and play by play automatically showing up on your iPhone when the teams you follow are playing. That means you don't have to figure out when the games are on and how your team is doing, which is especially nice when you're following a bunch of teams and your friends are constantly blowing up the group chat.

• 54:40Joe Rogan?

  The Apple Sports app gives you all the important game details for your favorite sports teams fast and simple. Download Apple Sports for free. On the App Store or find it on your new iPhone. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Believe it or not, the holiday season is here again and that means you might need to fill some seasonal roles, fast. Maybe you need extra cashiers or stalkers, or maybe something more unique like a lead elf, or an expert gift wrapper, or a Zamboni driver. Whoever you're looking for, whatever skills you need to power through the rest of the year, ZipRecruiter is one of the best places to start your search.

• 55:23Joe Rogan?

  Because you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. And because ZipRecruiter helps sort through thousands of resumes and applications showing you the most qualified and interesting ones first. There's even an option for candidates to explain why they want the job. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

• 55:59Speaker 00

  It's purely a kind of ideological insanity. Like, one of the people who is involved in this, I can't, her name always jumps out of my head. I can't remember her name, but she suggested that a baby who fiddles with the buttons on their baby grow is trans. Because they're indicating they don't like this baby grow, they want to wear a male or whatever, you know?

• 56:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 56:24Speaker 00

  That woman was involved in the Satanic Panic scandal. So she's moved from one insane, you know, mass delusion to another.

• 56:34Joe Rogan?

  What was the Satanic Panic scandal?

• 56:36Speaker 00

  Oh, do you not know this? This was like 80s, I think, in the middle, in kind of midwestern America. There was a lot of places that suddenly started believing in cults that were worshipping the devil and having sex with children. And the thing about it was it was before the internet, so it didn't actually spread that far. You know, there were a few towns where broke out. Do you remember that, the three kids who were in jail for years for something they didn't do and they nearly tried to kill them and it was found out, and they were just goths, you know, the stuff like that. And it didn't break out of middle America because the internet wasn't there. But I have to think now, if you had, if the satanic scandal broke out again, you would certainly know about it. Because it would be all over the world.

• 57:17Joe Rogan?

  And this person was involved in this?

• 57:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, same, some, it was something to do, she was something to do in a military base. Um, I wish I could remember her name. She, she, she, as I say, she did this thing about, um, uh, babies popping their mini, they're popping the buttons on their thing, you know, which is, and it's-

• 57:37Joe Rogan?

  So this is a crazy person?

• 57:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is a crazy person.

• 57:39Joe Rogan?

  So a crazy person who was a part of the satanic panic is now telling you that a baby fiddling with its buttons is probably trans?

• 57:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:49Joe Rogan?

  And people are listening?

• 57:50Speaker 00

  And people are listening.

• 57:52Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 57:52Speaker 00

  And you have, I mean, one of the things, when you said, why has this happened? Like, another thing that's happened is, you got to understand, there's millions of things going on at the same time. Like, right, a lot of very bad men have been empowered, okay? A lot of very bad men know they can walk into a female-only space and at least, they may even get a fucking payout if someone complains.

• 58:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 58:14Speaker 00

  Right? But then there's a lot of, you know, really lovely kids who are grown up and have been told, like, boys who've been told that boys are evil, and they, and they've, they've, they feel guilty because they think of women in a sexual way. And, you know, they, there's, there's stories of boys being castrated because of that, you know? They, they do not want to associate themselves with what they see as male toxicity, you know? So, uh, anyway, oh, yeah, and then there's other, there's other things, there's like, you know, people like that grifter, uh, who said that about the baby grows, there's all sorts, it's like a gold rush.

• 58:52Speaker 00

  If you create a, if you create a, uh, a completely, um, uh, senseless system that has no rules, that anyone can be a woman if they put on a dress, and it's just complete free for all, it's gonna be a gold rush, you know?

• 59:07Joe Rogan?

  Not just that. If you're a part of that clan, you get to be very aggressive about defending these ideas.

• 59:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:14Joe Rogan?

  To the point where you're allowed to hold up pistols and say, "We shoot TERFs."

• 59:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:18Joe Rogan?

  I saw some of that stuff going on in the UK where it's really apparently very hard to get a gun.

• 59:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:23Joe Rogan?

  But, "Shoot TERFs."

• 59:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, oh, that's big. Yeah, I'll tell you what, a really funny thing as well. You see, you see British people holding up posters saying, "Arm, arm trans people." And it's because they're completely Americanized, you know?

• 59:35Joe Rogan?

  This term, for people that don't know what it means, it's trans exclusionary radical feminism. So you're talking about shooting a woman. So there is a man who identifies as a woman holding a pistol, who is about to shoot the real woman, and this is openly promoted.

• 59:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:50Joe Rogan?

  There's nothing else like that in the world. Imagine if that was instead of TERFs, which is just really a woman saying, "A man with a penis shouldn't be allowed to be in the women's room."

• 1:00:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:02Joe Rogan?

  That will turn you into a TERF. And this is a person with a pistol saying, "Shoot TERFs."

• 1:00:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:07Joe Rogan?

  And that's okay.

• 1:00:08Speaker 00

  And also, trans exclusionary is such a lie, because these women, they accept every woman, no matter how they identify. So if a trans man comes in and says, "I need help, something's happened to me," or whatever, these groups won't turn them away. They're not trans exclusionary.

• 1:00:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:00:24Speaker 00

  They're male exclusionary.

• 1:00:26Joe Rogan?

  A trans man using the women's room.

• 1:00:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's fine.

• 1:00:30Joe Rogan?

  But that's a weird thing. Like, if a trans man was using the women's room, what would the wom- you know, if we do, that's, that gets weird, right?

• 1:00:38Speaker 00

  People know, Joe. These are small, tiny women with, with unconvincing facial hair.

• 1:00:43Joe Rogan?

  What about a big giant one? One big Viking lady who gets on the juice?

• 1:00:47Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 1:00:47Joe Rogan?

  I, I could see how it could be an issue if it's, there's, there's people that turn into trans men that are very passable as men.

• 1:00:56Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:00:56Joe Rogan?

  Much more so, I think, much more likely than people that are women or male that turn into women.

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  Oh, definitely. The, the effect of facial hair is such a mesmerizing effect. It's definitely gonna change your opinion.

• 1:01:09Joe Rogan?

  Especially because there's kind of feminine men.

• 1:01:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:11Joe Rogan?

  And they'll fall into that category.

• 1:01:13Speaker 00

  But, but here's the thing, they also have a bunch of things in common. They're all, they're all lower than the average height of men.

• 1:01:18Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:01:18Speaker 00

  Uh, the, the, and also their voices are croaky. Have you ever noticed Elliot Page's voice?

• 1:01:24Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:01:24Speaker 00

  It's very croaky now. It's like this. It's getting, it's a little bit like Kennedy's going there. Not that bad.

• 1:01:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, you hear about it from female bodybuilders.

• 1:01:31Speaker 00

  Little croakiness, right?

• 1:01:33Joe Rogan?

  Female bodybuilders are the original trans men.

• 1:01:35Speaker 00

  Oh, okay. Because they were injecting testosterone?

• 1:01:38Joe Rogan?

  Listen, female bodybuilders, we knew a long time ago that you could turn a woman into a man.

• 1:01:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, well.

• 1:01:45Joe Rogan?

  Like, at least visually.

• 1:01:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:01:47Joe Rogan?

  So like, go, give me some female misolympias. I'm gonna show you something that's literally not possible.

• 1:01:54Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:01:54Joe Rogan?

  This is not possible. Physiologically, it's not possible for a woman to get this muscular. Because it's not a woman, it's a science project.

• 1:02:01Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:02:02Joe Rogan?

  So it's a biological science project. And so, this is like, give me some crazy ones.

• 1:02:08Speaker 00

  You know in East Germany, the women who were on steroids and stuff?

• 1:02:12Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:02:13Speaker 00

  They weren't told, and on testosterone.

• 1:02:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I'm sure. Then show me, show me one from like, the 90s. Okay, how about that young lady in the lower right-hand corner? Look at that. Look at those muscles.

• 1:02:25Speaker 00

  Oh, Jesus Christ.

• 1:02:27Joe Rogan?

  Bro, that is so crazy. But it does look, like, I gotta say, does look feminine in like, the hips.

• 1:02:33Speaker 00

  No, sure.

• 1:02:33Joe Rogan?

  But it looks almost like a superhero.

• 1:02:36Speaker 00

  That's, that's another thing. Hips don't lie, you know? But, but, but there's another, there's another thing that happens.

• 1:02:41Joe Rogan?

  How about that one, Jamie? Scroll back, scroll up a little, yeah, that one right there, right above that one. The one where her hands are on her hips, in the middle, the blue one. Yeah, look at that one.

• 1:02:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:53Joe Rogan?

  Bro.

• 1:02:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:54Joe Rogan?

  Look at those arms.

• 1:02:55Speaker 00

  But that's just, you know, that's just, you know, someone who's doing that for a competition, that's, you know, and not pretending to be a man.

• 1:03:01Joe Rogan?

  Right, but, but my point is, like, if that person did identify as a man and decided to start using the women's room because, you know, of their biological sex, that would freak some women out.

• 1:03:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, and, and to be honest with you, that's a kind of a, a gotcha that's often pulled out, but in the end, the vast majority of the time, you know, and it's.

• 1:03:21Joe Rogan?

  There's not a lot of those.

• 1:03:22Speaker 00

  It's, yeah, exactly.

• 1:03:23Joe Rogan?

  Also, it takes not just steroids to get that big.

• 1:03:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:26Joe Rogan?

  It takes years of being in the gym and steroids for a woman to get that big.

• 1:03:30Speaker 00

  But let me tell you what I was gonna tell you about testosterone.

• 1:03:33Joe Rogan?

  The croakiness?

• 1:03:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, the croakiness. Do you know why that is?

• 1:03:35Joe Rogan?

  Why?

• 1:03:36Speaker 00

  Because they have slender women's necks, but their vocal cords have expanded, because it's testosterone.

• 1:03:43Speaker 00

  And so a lot of trans identified women have these croaky voices, you know, and

• 1:03:48Joe Rogan?

  I thought it was just the deepening of the voice because it's both of those, right?

• 1:03:51Speaker 00

  It's probably both, but but like the deepening of the voice comes because of things like this.

• 1:03:54Joe Rogan?

  I don't know what Elliot Page sounds like now.

• 1:03:57Speaker 00

  Um, there was something else I was gonna tell you about this that was really interesting. Uh, about the, oh, man, what was it?

• 1:04:05Joe Rogan?

  Trans men?

• 1:04:06Speaker 00

  It's like eight years of stuff just uh, crowding up in my head. Um, oh, it'll come back to me, it'll come back to me. But um, but yeah, these, these girls, oh, I know what it is. Okay, here's another, here's another fun fact, right?

• 1:04:20Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:04:20Speaker 00

  Uh, Grindr, the gay men's dating hookup app, okay? Trans men are going on to that app expecting to be accepted by other, by gay men, okay? And they're not. And again, if the gay men complain, they get thrown off.

• 1:04:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 1:04:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:37Joe Rogan?

  Gays, get a hold of your stuff. Get a hold of your stuff, don't let them do that to you.

• 1:04:41Speaker 00

  But here's what's happening on Grindr, wait till you hear this. Here's what's happening on Grindr, straight men are joining Grindr to predate on those women.

• 1:04:50Joe Rogan?

  On the trans men women?

• 1:04:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, because some of the women, some of the women, some of the women haven't, haven't yet, uh, the testosterone hasn't taken over.

• 1:04:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so they catch them while they're vulnerable?

• 1:05:00Speaker 00

  They catch them while they're vulnerable, they say, hey, hey, I'm a gay, yeah, hey, I'm a gay man.

• 1:05:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God, that's so

• 1:05:05Speaker 00

  And so they're predating on these, on these vulnerable, you know, confused young women who've been told that they are literally now gay men.

• 1:05:12Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy, like, how, what percentage, I mean, how many numbers are we talking about where this is a, a strategy for getting laid?

• 1:05:20Speaker 00

  I did, all I've seen, I have seen a forum discussion between two guys who were just kind of sniggering about it amongst themselves.

• 1:05:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:05:27Speaker 00

  It's really, it's really, it's really, I mean, you know, these kids, one of the things that gets me about this is that these kids are the kids that I was, you know? They're just strange, uh, they, they're not well adjusted, uh, spend a lot of time reading, maybe, sensitive. A lot of girls who are caught up in this are the most emphatic, uh, imaginative girls, you know? And, and it appeals to them for some reason, you know, it appeals to them, maybe because it feels so, they see men as just Gliding through life in a way that they can't. And and also they see pornography from from when they're kids. And the women in pornography are treated appallingly. And so they are, they are saying, no, I don't want any of that. And they're, they they think they can just.

• 1:06:11Speaker 00

  But what they're really doing is they're stepping into a world where they they they have a four times higher chance of having a heart attack. If they're taking testosterone than any than normal women. Um, they're gonna die younger, you know? They're gonna lose their ability to have children. And and no one is talking about it.

• 1:06:27Joe Rogan?

  And they're happening in clusters. Like, that's the most disturbing thing that Abigail brought up. A lot of these girls are diagnosed as autistic.

• 1:06:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:35Joe Rogan?

  And they wind up. And they wind up doing these group clusters of six or seven girls, which statistically speaking is highly, highly unlikely to be natural.

• 1:06:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:49Joe Rogan?

  And it leans towards the idea of a social contagion and no one wants to believe it. She also talks about how it it when you do test take testosterone when you're young, it it elevates your your your sense of confidence. It alleviates anxiety. It does a bunch of things for you psychologically.

• 1:07:05Speaker 00

  It creates more female school shooters. Have you noticed this?

• 1:07:08Joe Rogan?

  It has, it does.

• 1:07:09Speaker 00

  This has been happening recently as well. Yeah. And it's like, I I what I can never understand is why there don't exist people in the world. I mean, there are, they are there. There's a lot of them there and they're they're but but no one on a high level, not very few politicians, Trump, in fact, is probably the only one, who will say, hang on a sec. This is insane nonsense. We've got to protect these kids.

• 1:07:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:31Speaker 00

  Let's cut it out. Instead, there's this constant like, oh, yeah, but you know, we have like, a funny thing happened when the Supreme Court recently, I mean, this took four women Scotland, a group in Scotland, years to get to get through the court. But finally, the Supreme Court said, no, sex means biological sex. You know, it doesn't, you know.

• 1:07:49Joe Rogan?

  Way to go Scotland.

• 1:07:50Speaker 00

  In law, yeah, in law, sex means biological sex. And all these places have come back saying it's the most, you know, I don't, we don't know how we're going to implement this. It's all very confusing and they're they're really dragging their heels with it, you know? It's like, you were able to do it for a hundred years. How difficult is it to write ladies and gents and put it up on a sign?

• 1:08:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:08:09Speaker 00

  You know, and enforce it. Put it up on a door and enforce it. You know, they are, they, they are absolutely hypnotized by this. And they're fully convinced that it is just like gay rights. And that it's, they have to be careful because, I mean, one of the things that's happened, for instance, with the police in the UK is that a few years ago, uh, there was a young kid murdered by some racists, a black kid murdered by some racists. And I think, I think it was called the McPherson Report came out that, that described the police as institutionally racist. And they, they probably were in that way that all cops were racist at one point, you know, or, or at least, you know, very much not right on. But anyway, it was a big scandal. The, it had this convulsive effect on the police.

• 1:08:51Speaker 00

  And then the police just flipped and they started putting on pride colors on their faces and, and marching with pride. And, and really, and I genuinely think that, that there are police who are complicitous. I, I, in fact, I sent a video, maybe Jamie can pull it up, but I sent a, a video of the police actually walking away from a group of kettled women. Trans activists had kettled them in this small space. Their back was up against a railing and there was a huge crowd of, of Antifa type guys screaming at these women. And about four or five police keeping the Antifa guys from the women. And I, I arrived and I saw them walking away. I saw about six, seven policemen walking away from it, you know?

• 1:09:36Speaker 00

  I was like, what the hell's going on? So I think British police are using trans activists to scare women out of fighting for their rights. Because they know that if women, uh, if women, uh, gather to meet, trans activists will definitely be there to, uh, hurt them or, or harass them.

• 1:09:54Joe Rogan?

  You really think that? You don't think that it's just they're scared of the, the trans activists?

• 1:09:58Speaker 00

  No, because they've been advised for years by Stonewall, which was the big gay rights organization in the UK, that these women are bigots and that these women are actually far right. And, you know, and the police believe this stuff because they've had it as training for years.

• 1:10:12Joe Rogan?

  So that their training is that these women that are fighting for women's rights, these women are bigots?

• 1:10:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:18Joe Rogan?

  And you should let the Antifa people have at them?

• 1:10:20Speaker 00

  Oh, they wouldn't say that officially, but I believe that's what's happening. I believe they're basically using Antifa to control these women.

• 1:10:27Joe Rogan?

  You know. The flip side of this is ugly. When people rise up against something like this, it gets real ugly and real violent. And that's what scares me the most.

• 1:10:37Speaker 00

  Oh, one of the things we're trying to head off is the backlash against transsexuals and gay people who had nothing to do with this, you know?

• 1:10:44Joe Rogan?

  Gay people in particular. There's a lot of my friends that are gay that do not like any of this movement.

• 1:10:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:49Joe Rogan?

  They do not like any of it.

• 1:10:51Speaker 00

  It's a homophobic movement. Have you ever heard of anything as more homophobic than a lesbian with a penis? It's homophobia. That's all it is. And for some reason, people have just been held in this kind of, you know, tractor beam where they're just kind of like going along with it and they're not questioning it. I guess they're worried that what happened to people like me will happen to them, but there's increasingly less of an excuse now. I mean, John Oliver and Jon Stewart both said on their programs that puberty blockers were reversible. That is a dangerous lie.

• 1:11:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, I don't understand Jon Stewart saying that. I have to assume that Jon Stewart was misinformed.

• 1:11:31Speaker 00

  Everyone's misinformed because...

• 1:11:32Joe Rogan?

  But I have to assume that Jon didn't look into this because he's super reasonable and very intelligent.

• 1:11:37Speaker 00

  Absolutely. And that's why it's so crushing when someone like that says something like this. It is simply not true that puberty blockers are reversible.

• 1:11:45Joe Rogan?

  It has a direct impact on the development of the child's penis to the point where they might not ever...

• 1:11:50Speaker 00

  And brain.

• 1:11:51Joe Rogan?

  And brain, and causes strokes.

• 1:11:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:53Joe Rogan?

  It is literally chemical castration that they used to give to sex predators.

• 1:11:58Speaker 00

  That's it.

• 1:11:58Joe Rogan?

  That's what it is.

• 1:11:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:59Joe Rogan?

  That's what it is.

• 1:12:00Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's even a form of the drug. A few years ago, they wanted to put Alan Turing on a bank note in the UK. And now they're telling gay, they're putting gay kids on the same drugs that chemically castrated him.

• 1:12:13Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:12:14Speaker 00

  You know?

• 1:12:14Joe Rogan?

  And led him to commit suicide, right?

• 1:12:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:12:17Joe Rogan?

  The guy who invented the test to figure out whether or not artificial intelligence had reached sentience.

• 1:12:21Speaker 00

  Oh, I didn't, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

• 1:12:23Joe Rogan?

  Has the Turing test.

• 1:12:23Speaker 00

  I always forget about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think of it more as the Enigma guy, you know?

• 1:12:27Joe Rogan?

  I mean, but imagine that, like, what a crazy contribution and a footnote in history that we're currently wrestling with. Like, we're grappling right now with the idea that these things are already sentient.

• 1:12:38Speaker 00

  Thing is, we're grappling with things that we shouldn't be grappling with when when we're actually on the cusp of what seems to me with AI to be a huge moment in human evolution, right?

• 1:12:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:48Speaker 00

  We're about to move into like, it's, I always think of it like the, the, the, the thing in Alien that Sigourney Weaver.

• 1:12:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:12:56Speaker 00

  With the, with the, like the J C B.

• 1:12:58Joe Rogan?

  You bitch.

• 1:12:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. I think that's what AI is for humanity. We're going to be able to step into these things and be much more powerful than we used to be.

• 1:13:07Joe Rogan?

  We need. Or completely irrelevant and we fade off.

• 1:13:11Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:13:11Joe Rogan?

  We're not breeding anymore anyway.

• 1:13:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:13:13Joe Rogan?

  You know what I mean? You think about the amount of people that are having children now, especially in developed parts of the world. It's drops off. It always drops off, but like Japan is at the, the risk of population collapse. South Korea is at the risk of population collapse. Then you factor in microplastics, which significantly affect child's reproductive systems when they're in, in the uterus.

• 1:13:37Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:13:38Joe Rogan?

  Um, also, uh, like lower sperm counts. You look at like the invention of plastics and the start, the use of plastics. And then the correlation, the giant dip in sperm counts.

• 1:13:49Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:13:49Joe Rogan?

  We talked about it yesterday in the podcast. There's a woman, Dr. Shanna Swan from Harvard, who wrote a book on this.

• 1:13:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:13:54Joe Rogan?

  About phthalates and every person carries like literally a fucking spoon, like a, like a, you're like a picnic spoon, like plastic picnic spoon. Of microplastics in their brain. Yeah. So, and this stuff is neutering humans. It's also causing their, I mean, whether it's causing it or where there's a correlation. So there's a correlation in a larger number of miscarriages.

• 1:14:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:14:17Joe Rogan?

  For women. And they think a lot of this has to do with environmental toxins.

• 1:14:20Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:14:21Joe Rogan?

  A lot of it has to do with microplastics. So all this is moving us into this genderless direction. We're going to stop breeding anyway. At the same time where artificial intelligence becomes the new alpha life form on earth.

• 1:14:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, but, but, but again.

• 1:14:34Joe Rogan?

  We just stop breed off. We just stop breeding. This episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. I buy one, The Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it.

• 1:15:16Joe Rogan?

  Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier. And isn't getting more time with our four-legged best friend something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. This offer is for new customers only.

• 1:15:54Speaker 03

  Traditional banks are making it harder than ever to secure a small business loan. That's why thousands of business owners trust Cardiff for same-day funding. With over two decades of expertise, business owners keep voting Cardiff, America's favorite small business lender. Apply now for up to $500,000 in same-day business funding at cardiff.co/rogan. Again, that's cardiff.co/rogan. Cardiff, borrow better.

• 1:16:24Speaker 00

  One of the things, I mean, we, we, I just feel like there's all these, there are all these tests ahead of humanity, right? From the things you've just been talking about and all sorts of other things, geopolitical and so on. Why are we wasting time concentrating on this? Imaginary thing. It's not a real problem. It is, it is a, it is a mass delusion spread by the internet.

• 1:16:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a real problem in that men are always a real problem.

• 1:16:51Speaker 00

  Sure, but like, my point is.

• 1:16:53Joe Rogan?

  Most robberies, most murders, most car accidents, most high-speed car chases, most assault on police officers.

• 1:17:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:02Joe Rogan?

  Most everything.

• 1:17:03Speaker 00

  Absolutely. And, and, and we have to deal with the reality of, of life if we're going to take this major evolutionary step as human beings with AI. Because if we, if we continue ignoring the insanity that the internet has, has, has brought about with this movement, we're just gonna waltz right into the next one, you know?

• 1:17:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:22Speaker 00

  If we don't take time to say, okay, what just happened?

• 1:17:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:17:26Speaker 00

  Why did it happen? How can we make sure it doesn't happen again? Because it seems to me now that with the trans thing, the human race with the internet is hugely vulnerable to these kinds of, what you might call them, sense-destroying viruses, whatever you might call them. I don't know. There should be a word for what, what the trans movement is, but I think we're so vulnerable to it that we have to start developing, antibodies, you know?

• 1:17:52Joe Rogan?

  I agree with you because I do think that something else could come from a different direction, right? So here's what we saw in our lifetime, this same kind of thinking, the same kind of bizarre, violent group thinking. We saw it from COVID. We saw people that turned on their neighbors that were skeptical about the vaccine or people that didn't want to take it. They were called murderers and plague rats and this, this craziness where people were ostracized from social circles because they weren't vaccinated.

• 1:18:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:18:20Joe Rogan?

  And even though in hindsight, they were directionally correct, right? No one, there's been no course correction, but there was this othering of people for a very simple thing.

• 1:18:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:18:33Joe Rogan?

  Like you decide, like if that fucking thing works and you take it, why are you mad at me if I don't take it if it works? That means you're not gonna get COVID, no matter what fucking happens to me, right?

• 1:18:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:18:44Joe Rogan?

  So it was weird and illogical, just like the trans thing, but violent. And people were terrified because your life. Life was in danger.

• 1:18:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:52Joe Rogan?

  So you saw the most vile reactions from older populations. Who were calling for people to be quarantined, round up in camps, take away their livelihood, take away their children. You were hearing it from these old terrified people with fragile health. And they all got really violent about it online. They were really, really extreme in their positions on this.

• 1:19:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. I didn't notice that stuff so much.

• 1:19:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, in America, it was nuts.

• 1:19:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:20Joe Rogan?

  In America, it was wild. And, you know, and it was pushed by these multimedia corporations, these huge news corporations. It was pushed by them. It was all nonsense and propaganda, including Rolling Stone and CNN. Rolling Stone had a whole article that was 100% bullshit about people who were waiting in line at the emergency room for gunshot wounds because there were so many people that were getting treated for horse dewarmer because they took too much ivermectin.

• 1:19:50Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:19:50Joe Rogan?

  Total fabrication.

• 1:19:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:52Joe Rogan?

  With a stock photograph of people waiting in line in August in Oklahoma. This is supposed to be taking place. A stock photograph of people wearing winter coats outside in line. Because they're waiting for the fucking flu shot.

• 1:20:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:06Joe Rogan?

  And so it's a lie. It's a lie. And so there's this, this willingness to lie with no retractions on all the major television networks. Everybody was like pushing this one narrative and everyone at home was locked down.

• 1:20:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:20:20Joe Rogan?

  You couldn't go to work, you couldn't go to school, and everyone was terrified because this had never happened before.

• 1:20:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:25Joe Rogan?

  And we got to see how quickly people who are cowards just attack the others to try to keep themselves safe. It got very rat-like.

• 1:20:32Speaker 00

  Hmm, hmm. I think it's, I think it's, we live in a village now, really.

• 1:20:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:37Speaker 00

  When you think about it. And, and I often describe myself as a victim of village gossip on a global scale. You know?

• 1:20:43Joe Rogan?

  That's it, that's it.

• 1:20:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:20:45Joe Rogan?

  You know, but it's written down, so it seems a lot more real.

• 1:20:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's the thing. I mean, when the, when the Bible, uh, when, when, when the printing press, uh, appeared, there was 100 years of chaos as, as all these sects and everyone who had a crazy idea about the Bible that they'd had themselves, oh, on the seventh page. It says this on line seven, and that would become a religion, right? And then for a hundred years, these religions were fighting it out. There was there was pogroms and massacres and Protestantism was formed because of it. We're having a similar moment, right?

• 1:21:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:17Speaker 00

  With the internet.

• 1:21:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:19Speaker 00

  Because suddenly, every idiot with an opinion is putting it out there. Some of them are great opinions, some of them are terrible opinions, but there's no difference.

• 1:21:27Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:21:27Speaker 00

  And one thing I've noticed with the left is that with bad opinions, all they do is they repeat certain lines over and over again, you know? And you hear these things come up over and over. That's why I reacted slightly earlier, because trans women have always been with us. It's one that you hear a lot, you know?

• 1:21:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:21:42Speaker 00

  But you also hear, you know, just things designed to shut down the conversation, you know? And you see them over and over again. They're repeated over and over again. Whatever you think of the Gaza situation at the moment, I notice that it's the same thing, genocide, over and over and over again. In every tweet, they mention the word genocide, you know? And I don't happen to think it is, but like, by the end of it, if you were to stand up against that and say something against that, it's a difficult thing, because you suddenly look like you're against genocide, you're pro-genocide.

• 1:22:15Joe Rogan?

  What is the measure of genocide? Like, when does it become genocide? Like, when you're starving people, when you're bombing indiscriminately, when you've destroyed most of the buildings, when you've killed who knows how many tens of thousands of women and children?

• 1:22:30Speaker 00

  Well, do we want to get into this?

• 1:22:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, we got into it a little bit.

• 1:22:34Speaker 00

  I just think that, you know, Hamas is, I agree with Coleman Hughes, I think he was on your show, where he says that, you know, Hamas, they've built like a huge network of tunnels underneath people's houses. They put their headquarters in civilian buildings. It's a form of guerrilla warfare that I don't think should be allowed to continue. And I support Israel in defeating Hamas.

• 1:22:57Joe Rogan?

  Is there another way to do it, other than to blow up everybody? Is there a way to do it without starving the innocent people?

• 1:23:05Speaker 00

  I, I, I'm, you know, again, I just don't know how much of this is Hamas, you know, comes from Hamas. I don't know how much of it's true. I would suggest that all these conversations wait until we find, finally find out exactly what's, what's happened. You know, at the moment it's, it's fog of war stuff, you know? But I don't want to get into a big debate.

• 1:23:22Joe Rogan?

  Do you know, uh, have you ever heard of Eric Prince's idea? Do you know Eric Prince? Do you know who he is?

• 1:23:27Speaker 00

  Was he the Blackwater guys?

• 1:23:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He had an idea that apparently he floated by, but they rejected. He said, instead of destroying everything like that, you could just flood the tunnel system with the seawater.

• 1:23:36Speaker 00

  Oh, well, yeah, great.

• 1:23:38Joe Rogan?

  And that was his idea. It's like you could flush them all right out, like they're very vulnerable.

• 1:23:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:23:43Joe Rogan?

  And I don't know whether or not, I'm, you know, just, I heard him speak of this. I believe it was on the Sean Ryan Show. I might be incorrect. He spoke about it on some show. Uh, I don't know if it would work. I don't know why they would reject it.

• 1:23:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I don't know. But as I say, I don't really want to go into it because it's such a, it's again, it's a very, very, uh, heated debate. And I've only got room for one.

• 1:24:06Joe Rogan?

  I understand what you're saying. I understand what you're saying. Um, when we were, when, when you're dealing with all this, you're, you lost your entire income. You lost everything. You lost your standing in the television world.

• 1:24:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:24:21Joe Rogan?

  You lost a lot of your friends.

• 1:24:22Speaker 00

  All my friends.

• 1:24:23Joe Rogan?

  All, no one stuck with you?

• 1:24:24Speaker 00

  Uh, two people, uh, Jonathan Ross and Richard Iowety. Everyone else, all the people I, you know, given jobs to, made famous.

• 1:24:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, shout out to those two soldiers.

• 1:24:35Speaker 00

  Oh, they're great. Richard's great.

• 1:24:36Joe Rogan?

  It's hard. It's hard to, when someone close to you gets canceled and you're worried about catching strays.

• 1:24:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Actually, I should say, there are a few people that, that have stood by me. Lisa Evans, wonderful woman who produced Father Ted and a few other people. She's a, she's a big feminist. Um, uh, so I shouldn't be too, but, but in terms of my actual old life, everyone just dumped me, you know?

• 1:24:59Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 1:25:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:25:01Joe Rogan?

  That's the beautiful thing about the comedy community. Like we expect cancellations.

• 1:25:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:25:05Joe Rogan?

  You cancel like nobody.

• 1:25:07Speaker 00

  You guys are so interesting. I compare you guys to the birds that feed in between the teeth of crocodiles, you know? You guys dance so close to being, to being canceled, but you don't, you don't, it doesn't seem to touch you. And it's, it's always great to see. I, I've, I don't know if you saw, did you see the trigonometry interview with, uh? Kill Tony, Tony Hinchcliffe?

• 1:25:28Joe Rogan?

  I did not.

• 1:25:29Speaker 00

  You gotta watch that.

• 1:25:30Joe Rogan?

  Tony's my boy, though. He's my best friend.

• 1:25:31Speaker 00

  So presumably, he told you about that Chinese incident?

• 1:25:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I was there. I was there for the whole thing. I was there for the whole thing.

• 1:25:37Speaker 00

  Mind blowing.

• 1:25:38Joe Rogan?

  I was there for the whole thing. What saved Tony was that he had a recording of the entire set, including the other guy's set.

• 1:25:43Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 1:25:44Joe Rogan?

  And that's what saved him.

• 1:25:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:25:45Joe Rogan?

  And then it became, I mean, but Tony was going through it, man. It was hard. It was hard to watch a friend go through it like that.

• 1:25:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:25:53Joe Rogan?

  Uh, but, you know, he took like a week off, maybe two weeks off, and then I brought him on the road with me in Utah. We did Salt Lake City, which is an awesome place. Wise Guys in Salt Lake City, shout out. It's one of the best clubs in the world. So we did this club, and the audience had no idea who was opening for me. It's just me, right? And when they announced Tony Hinchcliffe's name, everybody went crazy.

• 1:26:18Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah?

• 1:26:19Joe Rogan?

  It was awesome. It was awesome. People stood up, they clapped, they cheered, and he went up and murdered. He had so much material on that cancellation. It was so good. It was like an amazing moment for him because like his comedy actually jumped up a notch. He actually got funnier because of it. He like tightened his bits up. He got more aggressive with it. He was like, he got really dialed in. He was worried his whole world was going away.

• 1:26:44Speaker 00

  Same with Shane. I mean Shane, Shane came up on top of that so brilliantly. It's, it's like...

• 1:26:48Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:26:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I just love, I love people who, but for some reason, I just couldn't do it. I think because...

• 1:26:55Joe Rogan?

  You didn't have a comedy community, like a stand-up community. It's a different thing.

• 1:26:58Speaker 00

  My job required a cast and a crew and producers and agents, and they don't... The UK art sector is completely captured, you know?

• 1:27:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's the same as America. I mean, America is, it's a giant issue with left-wing politics in Hollywood.

• 1:27:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:27:14Joe Rogan?

  You're either on the team or you're outside. And if you're outside, you don't work. The only one who works is Chris Pratt. Chris Pratt is like openly Christian, but he's such a nice guy, you cannot fault him.

• 1:27:24Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:27:25Joe Rogan?

  He's such a good guy. You can't say him being a Christian is an issue.

• 1:27:28Speaker 00

  So strange that they're coming after Christians. It's like, it's like, you know, I...

• 1:27:33Joe Rogan?

  Real Christians are the nicest fucking people you'll ever... For me.

• 1:27:36Speaker 00

  Exactly, yeah.

• 1:27:37Joe Rogan?

  They really follow Jesus's principles. They're like, if you wanna use it as a method, like as a, if you want results, like, like their results are pretty fucking solid, man. Real Christians really follow it. Some of the nicest people.

• 1:27:52Speaker 00

  And also, you know, you can disagree with them and not fall out with them.

• 1:27:55Joe Rogan?

  Right, Clint Eastwood's grandfather didn't, because he's old as fuck, like, they still let him make movies.

• 1:27:59Speaker 00

  Who?

• 1:28:00Joe Rogan?

  Clint Eastwood.

• 1:28:00Speaker 00

  Oh, Clint, yeah.

• 1:28:01Joe Rogan?

  How dare you?

• 1:28:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:28:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Clint.

• 1:28:03Speaker 00

  I like his late stage, though. His late, his late stage of movies, yeah, like, like those kind of documentary-like about ordinary people who get caught up in things. He did one, Richard Lewis, I think it was called, that was brilliant, about a security man who found a, an explosive, uh, device at a gig.

• 1:28:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:28:19Speaker 00

  And because he pointed it out, they charged him with it.

• 1:28:21Joe Rogan?

  I remember that guy, yeah, that guy got smeared all over the news. We all thought that he was the guy who bombed.

• 1:28:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:28:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we thought he was the bomber.

• 1:28:28Speaker 00

  In the film, he said he had one day of being a hero, and then it flipped to he's the bomber, you know?

• 1:28:33Joe Rogan?

  It's, that's, it's so scary when things like that happen to people, because, you know, but Clint, he had this one film to me that is like the answer to the spaghetti westerns, that's Unforgiven. I think Unforgiven.

• 1:28:48Speaker 00

  Great movie.

• 1:28:49Joe Rogan?

  I think it's the best western of all time, because I think it's probably the most accurate about how fucked up life was back then.

• 1:28:55Speaker 00

  Have you ever read Larry McMurtry?

• 1:28:56Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:28:57Speaker 00

  He's a Texan author, you gotta read Lonesome Dove. I.

• 1:29:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I started Lonesome Dove, but I got distracted.

• 1:29:03Speaker 00

  There's, there's something that happens about page a hundred, and you will not be able to put it down after that.

• 1:29:08Joe Rogan?

  Spoiler alert.

• 1:29:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:29:09Joe Rogan?

  Okay, I'll hang in there.

• 1:29:10Speaker 00

  But, but those books, those lonesome book, uh, the lonesome book series by Larry McMurtry, I watched every western differently after that. Because I suddenly realized what these people, how brave these settlers were.

• 1:29:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they were crazy.

• 1:29:24Speaker 00

  And, and, and also, he writes about Indians and, and, or sorry, Native Americans brilliantly, uh, just as well as he writes about everyone else, you know? And, oh, they're great books, they're great books. You just cannot put them down. You do eight hundred pages, you'd read them in a, in a week, you know?

• 1:29:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, I, I went through a whole series of Wild West books that I read, um, after I read, uh, Empire of the Summer Moon.

• 1:29:47Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, well.

• 1:29:49Joe Rogan?

  No, not Empire of the Summer Moon.

• 1:29:50Speaker 00

  No, I know which one you're talking about. You're talking about the Cheroak, uh, the, the.

• 1:29:53Joe Rogan?

  God damn it, how am I saying that wrong?

• 1:29:55Speaker 00

  Is it Cheyenne?

• 1:29:56Joe Rogan?

  Uh, no.

• 1:29:58Speaker 00

  Why were they, oh, I think I read a bit.

• 1:30:00Joe Rogan?

  The Comanches.

• 1:30:01Speaker 00

  Comanches, that's right.

• 1:30:02Joe Rogan?

  But what is the, uh.

• 1:30:03Speaker 00

  Ah, what was it called?

• 1:30:06Joe Rogan?

  What's that? It is Empire of the Summer Moon?

• 1:30:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:30:09Joe Rogan?

  Why am I, oh, I'm confusing it with that Leonardo DiCaprio movie.

• 1:30:12Speaker 04

  Make the movie afterwards.

• 1:30:13Joe Rogan?

  Ah, right, right, right. But have they made Empire of the Summer Moon already?

• 1:30:16Speaker 04

  They're working on it, I believe.

• 1:30:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, the, I was thinking of the Leonardo, I was right. So Empire of the Summer Moon, which is all about the Comanches and all about the settlers and all about people that got slaughtered and you realize like how insane life was like and I think Eastwood was the, that was the closest, I think, to really getting it. Cause I think he, the, I love those old spaghetti westerns, don't get me wrong, but they were this kind of like bullshitty nineteen seventies version of the Wild West and Clint Eastwood never got shot and, you know what I mean?

• 1:30:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, there's more grit in, in, in, in that one.

• 1:30:49Joe Rogan?

  And it was real. It was like, I believe it. I believe that the sheriff was a coward.

• 1:30:54Speaker 00

  Also, there's an interesting thing in it, you might, if you watch it again, you might notice, but, but they all know each other. It's so weird. They all go, do you know William Dancy or whatever and they go, yeah, yeah, I met him, and because it's like, even though they're all spread out, they all know each other. So it's, I bet you that's based on research, you know?

• 1:31:11Joe Rogan?

  I bet it is as well.

• 1:31:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:31:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, they had to know each other. So few fucking people and there's no laws. It's, you have to know who the dangerous people are.

• 1:31:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:31:21Joe Rogan?

  William Money.

• 1:31:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, that was a great movie.

• 1:31:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, fucking great.

• 1:31:25Speaker 00

  No, I love Clint. He's, he's.

• 1:31:26Joe Rogan?

  But he's grandfathered in as a conservative. John Voight is kind of on the outs, but he was, you know.

• 1:31:31Speaker 00

  But you know, I remember, I even kind of was worried about you in the early days. Like I used to be a bit of a, a bit of a left wing twat myself. I, I, you know, I, I, I famous, one of the most famous things I did was, do you remember the, uh, the saluting pug guy?

• 1:31:47Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:31:48Speaker 00

  Who got his, yeah, well, I, I kind of joined in on all that and I'm deeply ashamed of it and I actually apologized to him at his, uh, I did a video and apologized at a roast, uh, that he did.

• 1:31:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, good for you.

• 1:32:00Speaker 00

  Because like, you know, I just, I, I, but I completely believed, this is what I found out.

• 1:32:05Joe Rogan?

  Into it.

• 1:32:05Speaker 00

  I completely believed he was a fascist because. That's what every publication was telling me.

• 1:32:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:32:11Speaker 00

  And I was trusting all these people who eventually came out against me. And and now I look back at it and think I was just lied to consistently for all these years. And it's meant that I have to readdress things that I've spent the last twenty five years thinking about like. But but I realize now I wasn't really thinking deeply enough about them, like climate change. I was always so terrified of climate change, you know?

• 1:32:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:34Speaker 00

  And and, you know, I've had about thirty years of being terrified about climate change. And nothing's happening.

• 1:32:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, go back and watch that stupid fucking movie that Al Gore made.

• 1:32:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:32:46Joe Rogan?

  That movie's so wrong in terms of its predictions. It's, you know, in the benefits of hindsight, looking back.

• 1:32:52Speaker 00

  I was told twenty nineteen, we'd all be underwater, you know?

• 1:32:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's not just that. Have you ever seen one of those aerial time lapse photos of the coast?

• 1:32:59Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:32:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, bitch doesn't move. Doesn't move since nineteen eighties. It's not going nowhere. The reality is, the fucking earth's climate has never been static. It's never been flat. It's never been super predictable. It's always gone up and down.

• 1:33:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:33:14Joe Rogan?

  And the reality of our life is, yeah, we pollute and it's terrible and we should definitely figure out better solutions. The reality is, all that stuff that we're putting in the air in terms of carbon dioxide, that is an issue. But also, particulates, also brake dust, also, when your tires wear out, where do you think they go?

• 1:33:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:33:35Joe Rogan?

  They go in the fucking air.

• 1:33:37Speaker 00

  Like that brilliant Bill Burr routine.

• 1:33:39Joe Rogan?

  What is it?

• 1:33:39Speaker 00

  When you throw away your um, your, your Apple charger, you know, do you think it just mysteriously disappears?

• 1:33:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:46Speaker 00

  You know, no, it ends up a fucking, yeah, or a shark starts wearing it as a scarf, you know? That's what it, that's what it is, you know?

• 1:33:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a lot of birds who eat bottle caps. That's a real problem. You ever seen those terrifying photos of dead birds with stomach? Like they're rotted out and you see their stomach full of bottle caps?

• 1:34:03Speaker 00

  No!

• 1:34:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a, it's a real issue.

• 1:34:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:34:06Joe Rogan?

  It's a real, all right, that's our problem. Our problem is pollution. Our problem is waste. Our problem is destroying of rivers and the ocean and oil spills. These are all problems.

• 1:34:19Joe Rogan?

  Climate change, this idea, the problem with it has become politicized. And it's become a thing that you have to support, just like you have to support trans rights, just have you have to support this or that, or whatever the fuck, get vaccinated. It's all the same shit.

• 1:34:31Speaker 00

  It's never been more difficult or more, it's never been made more frightening to do your own thinking. To actually say, it is now a dangerous thing to do.

• 1:34:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, you're literally told on mainstream news to not do it. Don't do your own research. Which is a crazy thing to tell people. In the age of information, whether you have more access to reality and truth than ever historically, by far, with human beings. Don't do it.

• 1:34:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:34:59Joe Rogan?

  Don't use it. Don't utilize it. Don't utilize the greatest tool that mankind has ever devised for figuring out what the fuck is going on. Don't do it.

• 1:35:07Speaker 00

  And you see the, the kind of mainstream news people in the UK, there's people like, who have podcasts, like Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart and, and these ex-newsreaders who are on this program called The News Agents. And their job is to deliberately not know things. Right? It's almost like, I mean, I think, I think you got the same thing over here with the, with, with CNN and stuff. You know, their job is to just express confusion about it. Why is everything so? And, and they cannot actually address the issues, because if they address the issues, they will start saying things that will get them cancelled. You know? And so what you have is a kind of a chewing gum for, for information in the UK. It's not real. It's not actually information.

• 1:35:52Speaker 00

  It's just, it's just these middle-class people, very privileged people, gabbing away. They all think there's no problem with, uh, men in women's spaces, because they, they will never have to use a shelter. They will never have to use a rape crisis center, God willing, you know? So these, these people who actually are affected by these issues are the last thing on their minds. They are very comfortable, middle-class people who do not give a damn about anyone.

• 1:36:16Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right. JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com/Rogan for a free trial, and when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. I know how chaotic things get this time of the year between all the holidays, trying

• 1:36:57Joe Rogan?

  to train, and last-minute projects at work. It can seem impossible to get everything done. If you feel like you're running on fumes, AG1 Next Gen is an easy way to get the support that you need. With over 75 ingredients and five clinically-studied probiotic strains, it supports your energy and your immune health, among other things. And for extra boost, there's AG1 Pro, and that has the same Next Gen formula, but with five grams of creatine, CAHMB, and zinc carnosine. Plus, both are NSF-certified for sports, so you can feel good about what you're putting into your body, no matter how busy things

• 1:37:42Joe Rogan?

  get. Go to drinkag1.com/joe, and for a limited time, get a free immunity bundle, including a bottle of omega-3 fish oil and vitamin D tossed in with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro, backed by a 90-day money-back guarantee. That's drinkag1.com/joe.

• 1:38:06Speaker 00

  And outside of their experience.

• 1:38:08Joe Rogan?

  There's also no benefit to rocking the boat.

• 1:38:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:38:11Joe Rogan?

  You have to realize, like, what those people are are mouthpieces. You're just a mouthpiece for an organization, who occasionally, unfortunately for the network, gets to express their true opinions on things, and usually you find out they're fucking dumb.

• 1:38:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:38:25Joe Rogan?

  Right? That happens all the time.

• 1:38:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:38:27Joe Rogan?

  And the really smart ones wind up leaving and going somewhere else and starting podcasts.

• 1:38:31Speaker 00

  But some of them, it's not their fault. Like, the thing I was saying earlier about the chain of trust among doctors, the W. Breaking the chain of trust to such an extent is has affected the whole world, you know. So now we can't trust our newsreaders to tell us the truth. They're telling us a man attacked a man attacking people when it was really a woman. We can't trust doctors because doctors are telling these incredibly damaging things to kids. Kid comes in with a with depression. Oh, you're trans. I'll tell you, here's a story. Oh, God, this is a story that really illustrates the problem. And it's another problem with the press as well. But in New Zealand, there was a young girl. She was sixteen years old, I believe, and she was autistic and anorexic.

• 1:39:16Speaker 00

  And her parents were first generation, I think, immigrants and had no idea what was going on. Right. She was suddenly saying she was a boy. They didn't know what what she was talking about, you know. And so they didn't they didn't go with it. And she left home, right, encouraged by what they call a glitter family, which is a bunch of gay or trans identified people who love bomb her and tell her that she needs to get rid of her parents because her parents are bigots. So she moves in with this glitter family. They can't deal with her because she's autistic. So within a couple of months, she's gone from the house. She's nowhere to live, can't go back home, has told her parents she's big, they're bigots. The New Zealand government, they meet her.

• 1:40:00Speaker 00

  They don't diagnose her as autistic or as anorexic. They diagnose her as trans. They give her a hotel room. She died in that hotel room. She starved to death in the hotel room because the New Zealand government called her trans and forgot about a young autistic anorexic sixteen year old girl. And and at the end of it, she was just about making up with her parents. And she phoned her mother. Oh, sorry, excuse me. That don't go down well. She phoned her mother a few times and they were just about to make it up. And then she got a call from the police. And she found out that the daughter had been in the hotel right around the corner from where she lived.

• 1:40:42Speaker 00

  So she left the house, went up into the room and took a photograph of her daughter dead.

• 1:40:49Speaker 00

  No one would tell the story. It's taken a year and a half to get this story out in New Zealand media because, because no one cares. No one cares. Or it's not that no one cares. It's a trans story. So you just can't get it out. And in every country, there's always one or two activists who do everything they can. Like the journalist or the people involved with that story were attacked by, I can't remember his name, but there's an activist over there, very vicious activist, as there is in Ireland and the UK and a few different places. And they're always the parents of trans identified kids. You know, the worst people, the worst activists, the most, the most violent activists. Helen Joyce is a brilliant Irish writer, and she pointed this out. They have done the worst

• 1:41:31Speaker 00

  thing that you can do to your kids. They have, they have confused their kids and sometimes they've actually encouraged their kids to take these hormones and to take, and to go through these procedures, to have a, to be castrated, to have a double mastectomy. They will never be able to accept what they've done to their kids. And I know there was one Irish activist who's been planning on transing his kid for at least 12 years. Right? And now the kid is grown up. Of course, the kid is, is, is, is, is, thinks they're a man. Because they've lived with this homophobic parent, you know, who basically doesn't like seeing gender non-conforming behaviours in their child. So they say, oh, actually, he's a woman. Or he's ma, or she's a man. You know? So, so these are the people who

• 1:42:12Speaker 00

  are, you know, that, that guy in New Zealand, he, he, even when the story came out, he still tried to attack the people telling it. Still tried. He, he, he, he put me in some sort of conspiracy of creating a bigger deal about it than it needed to be. There's a young girl who died in a hotel room because they called her trans and just forgot about her. You know? Like, how, how, how did it take a year and a half for New Zealand media to report on that? In a country that small. You know? And there's so many stories like this.

• 1:42:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think the dam is breaking because I think there's been a lot of people that are fed up.

• 1:42:49Joe Rogan?

  And they realize that there's irreversible harm being caused to people that are being tricked. There's these stories of the detransitioners and them being attacked online for telling their story, which is true.

• 1:43:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:43:04Joe Rogan?

  It's a true story about them being confused and being told that they were trans and going through these procedures and deeply regretting it.

• 1:43:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:43:12Joe Rogan?

  And then going back to their biological sex, they get destroyed online.

• 1:43:16Speaker 00

  They get treated worse than anyone else, you know, because they are living proof that it's not innate.

• 1:43:22Joe Rogan?

  It makes no sense. There's no compassion, there's no kindness.

• 1:43:26Speaker 00

  And I'll tell you what else.

• 1:43:27Joe Rogan?

  It's evil.

• 1:43:28Speaker 00

  And also, I'll tell you what else, I have a, on my, I have an iPhone, right? And whenever I write the word detransitioners on my iPhone, which I have caused to do quite a lot, it underlines it in red because it will not recognize the word exists.

• 1:43:41Joe Rogan?

  But is it because it doesn't know the word yet?

• 1:43:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, but how long has it been?

• 1:43:44Joe Rogan?

  Because it does, it would cunt, too.

• 1:43:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, but detransitioners isn't a dirty word.

• 1:43:48Joe Rogan?

  Actually, it doesn't do it with cunt anymore.

• 1:43:50Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:43:51Joe Rogan?

  But they, it used to...

• 1:43:52Speaker 00

  Well, detransitioners is a dirtier word.

• 1:43:54Joe Rogan?

  Let me see if it works in America. Do you have an American iPhone?

• 1:43:56Speaker 00

  No, I'd be curious.

• 1:43:59Joe Rogan?

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna text Jamie right now.

• 1:44:01Speaker 00

  People like, wanna go away and try it, try writing detransitioners and see if it underlines it. But, but, you know, and, but my point is that one of the...

• 1:44:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, underlined it.

• 1:44:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:44:14Joe Rogan?

  Motherfuckers.

• 1:44:15Speaker 00

  There you go.

• 1:44:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, let's see if it gives me some suggestions. No replacement found. You have, I have no idea what you're talking about.

• 1:44:23Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:44:23Joe Rogan?

  It's playing dumb.

• 1:44:24Speaker 00

  And that's what Wikipedia is, the same Wikipedia is moderated by trans activists.

• 1:44:29Joe Rogan?

  But that's kind of crazy.

• 1:44:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:44:31Joe Rogan?

  I wish I had my Android phone here, I would wanna check that.

• 1:44:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, that'd be interesting. But Wikipedia has been, there was a war within Wikipedia, I believe, where all the trans, uh, uh, trans ally moderators won. And now Wikipedia, my Wikipedia page has basically been vandalized for years, you know? And, and if I complain to press authority that they call me anti-trans, they go, well, it says it on your Wikipedia. And we've tried to change it, but it reverts back within fifteen minutes every time. So if anyone would like to do a class action suit against Wikipedia, I'd love to be involved if that ever.

• 1:45:06Joe Rogan?

  Just for the record, cunt doesn't show up with a red line.

• 1:45:09Speaker 00

  Okay, there you go.

• 1:45:10Joe Rogan?

  Detransitioner does, cunt does not.

• 1:45:12Speaker 00

  There you go, there you go. I wonder which, is it the actual, but my point, actually, sorry, the reason I bring it up is because a lot of tech guys are tech because they're autistic, right? And they, a lot of coders are, you know, you spend all your time writing in the dark and coding stuff. Your interests go that way. So the trans thing has come up a lot as well from kind of manipulation by these tech guys, who are, a lot of whom identify as trans. So we're living in a world now where, like the underlying detransitioner, they are controlling what we think is normal and what we think is unusual. So to everyone now, we write down detransitioner, you doubt yourself because there's a red line underneath it.

• 1:45:57Speaker 00

  Oh, it mustn't be a real word, or it's D and then a space maybe, or whatever. But no, you're right, it's just these fucking tech guys are trying to confuse you, keep you unbalanced, you know, so that you can't discuss this issue.

• 1:46:10Joe Rogan?

  That is a weird one, because when did detransitioner first start being used? When did the term?

• 1:46:16Speaker 00

  I don't know, I mean, you know.

• 1:46:18Joe Rogan?

  The term is clearly, you only use it with sex, right? You're only using it with gender, whatever you want to say, sex or gender. That's the only, detransitioner, transitioning anything from something to something else, that's not ever done before. And I don't remember ever using that term detransitioner in any other way.

• 1:46:37Speaker 00

  That's interesting, possibly because, you know, this detrans thing is not, as I say, it's not real, it's an artificial, human-invented thing.

• 1:46:45Joe Rogan?

  Yes, and it kind of implies regret.

• 1:46:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:46:48Joe Rogan?

  The detransitioner stories are never happy ones.

• 1:46:51Speaker 00

  You know the American Southern Law Center? Have you ever heard of them? They have named Chloe Cole, you know Chloe Cole, the detransitioner? She's doing brilliant work. They've named her as a far-right, simply because she's going around telling her story.

• 1:47:07Joe Rogan?

  I think I'm far right too. They say I'm far right too.

• 1:47:10Speaker 00

  Oh, they say everyone's far right. If you're, if you're, if you're, if you say anything that diverts from what a bunch of lunatics online have agreed is the truth, then you're far right.

• 1:47:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:20Speaker 00

  You know?

• 1:47:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you can't, you're, everyone's politically homeless. We have to realize that. Start a shelter.

• 1:47:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:47:27Joe Rogan?

  Let's just call it the center.

• 1:47:28Speaker 00

  But I don't think, I don't think the systems we have are gonna, are gonna be, are gonna last much longer. I think AI is going to change everything.

• 1:47:36Joe Rogan?

  I think you're right. And, but I think reluctantly, because there's people that are in control of the system right now that are extracting enormous amounts of money.

• 1:47:45Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:47:45Joe Rogan?

  You know, with just fill in the blank of all the different special interests that have a hand in how much money gets distributed this way and that way. There's so much of that that really fuels the decisions that are being made in this country.

• 1:47:59Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:47:59Joe Rogan?

  It's not really the will of the people. It's not really trying to make America great.

• 1:48:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:48:03Joe Rogan?

  I mean, yeah, it is, but also if you really wanted to do it, you wouldn't do it this way.

• 1:48:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:48:09Joe Rogan?

  If that's what your main goal was, if your main goal was to make money and give the illusion that we're fixing all the problems that America has, while fixing some of them, well, then that's what you're doing. Cause that's what your goal seems to be. Your goal's not, the real goal should be like letting AI have a look at everything. Like, what's the best way to distribute all these resources? And is it really fair that this corporation gets to pollute the fucking ocean? Like, let's figure out what, what's, what's the right way to do this.

• 1:48:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:48:38Joe Rogan?

  And that's gonna be horrifying for anybody in any position of power.

• 1:48:41Speaker 00

  It's like, it's like people say about your show, you know, the reason Kamala wouldn't, wouldn't, didn't come on is simply because there, there's a certain breed of politician who are, I think, dying out, who are the kind of politicians that couldn't survive three hours talking to you, you know?

• 1:48:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:48:57Speaker 00

  And, and they, I don't think they've long left because things like this are the way that people get their information now. So, you know, you, you get these like, and it's the only reason why people, oh, I've got a good thing to tell you about AOC as well. Um, uh, it's the only reason why people like, uh, uh, AOC and, and people like this are able to continue spouting. Nonsense, it's because they don't go on shows like this. Here's an interesting thing, at one point in my, I still haven't told you half the thing, so I was gonna tell you. But at one point, a streamer did a, I managed to take some money, I managed to stop the charity Mermaids from getting funding from the National Lottery in the UK. Mermaids used to be a good organisation.

• 1:49:41Speaker 00

  Dysphoria was very rare and they treated it as you should, right? With things like affirmation as a final step, not the first step, okay? Surgery and drugs, final, that's what it should always be. And they were great, and then they, a woman named Susie Green came on board. And Susie Green-

• 1:50:02Joe Rogan?

  Does Susie have a penis?

• 1:50:03Speaker 00

  No, but her son did, her son did. And Susie Green took over at Mermaids, transformed it into a mental institution. And, and she, she took her son to Thailand on his 16th birthday to have him castrated. You know? And, and now, and this, and this kid has been brought up since they were four, five years old, because she, there's a famous TED Talk. Where, there's a hilarious, you gotta see this TED Talk. She does this TED Talk and she's got the, you know, the TED Talk thing, so she looks like an expert. And she's doing the hand movements, like they all do on TED Talks, right? So you think this is someone who knows what they're talking about. And she just admits that the kid liked playing with girls' toys, the husband didn't like it.

• 1:50:49Speaker 00

  She decided it was really a girl. And that's the TED Talk. There's no, there's no explanation of what trans is or, or anything like that.

• 1:50:57Joe Rogan?

  Or gay.

• 1:50:57Speaker 00

  It just got, yeah, exactly.

• 1:50:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is the reality that they don't like, yeah. The reality that they don't like is if you leave them alone and you don't encourage transition, the vast majority of them become gay men.

• 1:51:08Speaker 00

  It's something like 60 to 90%.

• 1:51:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:10Speaker 00

  It's like, leave them alone and they'll be fine. The fastest cure for dysphoria in teenagers is leave them alone, let them go through puberty. Because puberty is like- A wonderful flushing of all the things that make you uncertain about yourself. To come to the end of puberty is to is to get rid of all that stuff. It's still there in traces and so on, but but that's what puberty does. It cures itself. So these people are trying to fucking stop it, right? Have you ever heard anything so demented? It's like a James Bond villain, something so demented about stopping puberty. This brilliant process that turns you from a child into an adult and they're stopping it. These people are dangerous.

• 1:51:49Joe Rogan?

  They're stopping and they're lying that the effects are reversible.

• 1:51:53Speaker 00

  One person at the Tavistock, one one doctor at the Tavistock said that she was sure one of the parents who came in was a pedophile and wanted to keep their child in a state of arrested development so they could abuse them longer.

• 1:52:09Speaker 00

  You know, this is doctors at the Tavistock. And again, this stuff is not well known. If it was well known, it would be over, you know?

• 1:52:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, our fucking news has failed us.

• 1:52:21Speaker 00

  It really has. It's allowed this to go on for 10 years. It's, do you know about, did you see what Andy Ngo's investigation into Trantifa, the this this gang of, actually Trantifa is a more general term, but there was an actual gang of trans identified guys and women. And they they went to this guy's, this guy was, I think he was an old rancher or something. And they blinded him in an attack, you know? And then he went out to, he was going to testify at the trial and they killed him. They killed him. So what what we have with this group, I can't remember what they were called. I wish I could remember.

• 1:53:01Speaker 00

  But but what we have with this group is because no one has been doing their jobs, including the press and not talking about this properly, an entirely for fake terrorist group.

• 1:53:14Speaker 00

  That thinks it's a civil rights movement has formed out of nothing. These are middle-class white guys, right? Who normally would be, I don't know, going to gigs and stuff. And, and, and this kind of violent civil rights group is formed for nothing. It, it's, it's, it's, it's not defending anyone. It's not helping anyone. It's simply there to get men into women's toilets, you know? And it just, we've created it and now we have to deal with it. You know, this kind of mirage of a civil rights movement, you know? Sorry, I'm not really being very clear because there's so much to say.

• 1:53:48Joe Rogan?

  No, you are being clear. It's just so disturbing.

• 1:53:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:53:50Joe Rogan?

  But it's just you're, you're sticking your neck out and talking about the worst aspects of this whole thing.

• 1:53:55Speaker 00

  One of the things that it used to happen to me was I would talk about very specific people. Like for instance, there was someone who worked in Stonewall who, who helped create their trans, um, uh, policies, uh, named Amy Chaloner. And Chaloner, it was discovered that Chaloner was the son of a bloke who had tied up and tortured a little girl in the attic of their home. And he still continued to work with Stonewall. He continued to use his father as an election agent. And when he was, when he was, uh, uh, when he was reprimanded, they said he had absolutely no understanding of what was wrong, of what he had done wrong and so on, you know?

• 1:54:38Speaker 00

  These are the, see, this person was central to, to, to the trans movement in the UK. And there's so many examples of this. There's a guy called Peter Tatchell. Peter Tatchell has a long history of, of, of literally promoting pedophilia as a, uh, as something that's sometimes enjoyed by the child. That's how he puts it. The famous letter he wrote to The Guardian where he said, I have many friends who, who say they have experiences that ranged from nine to 13, that where they had entirely good outcomes with, what are you talking about? Nine, nine is rape. 13 is rape. What are you talking about? It doesn't matter if they say they had good experiences. They were groomed, you know? And, and this man is, is, has.

• 1:55:24Speaker 00

  Fairly, is a fairly significant figure in the UK, you know. It's, it's, it's, and no investigation into these writings, no kind of talk about it. It's, again, it's just completely ignored because as I say, the UK is addicted to harming children, not talking about it, and only kind of saying, oh, what could have happened years later.

• 1:55:44Joe Rogan?

  I just don't understand why there's not a larger population of people that have gotten completely fed up with this.

• 1:55:52Speaker 00

  It's because the press sits on it. Most people don't know what's happening. Most people in the UK think I just went mad. They think I went mad, I started harassing women, some form of women, and blah, blah, blah. And they believe all the, all the stories that have been reshared and reshared about me and, you know, and they just don't know because no, I've never, in the eight years I've been fighting this, the only time I appeared on like mainstream TV to talk about these issues, and I sent this to Jamie, was when they ambushed me and they just berated me for five minutes.

• 1:56:26Speaker 00

  Journalist named Sarah Smith did the interview, who's now the head of BBC in North America, I should say, and.

• 1:56:32Joe Rogan?

  How'd she berate you, what'd she say?

• 1:56:34Speaker 00

  Well, I, I, I was saying, she just simply didn't believe it. The funny thing was, some of our journalists were working on a story about the Tavistock at the time, and, and I was just saying, you know, kids are being hurt, kids are being hurt in these gender clinics and it should be stopped, you know, and, and she was like, you're seriously saying that doctors are blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she just couldn't, it was so weird, she just couldn't, and the stuff I'd known to be true, that I'd been studying for years, she just wasn't across it, you know? So, the journalists aren't across it because it's not worth their while to, to, to be across it. And they're actually slowing down the understanding of what this is about, you know, because they, they approach it so gingerly and, and they don't offend anyone and they don't want to be cancelled.

• 1:57:18Speaker 00

  So there's no conversation about it, there's no conversation.

• 1:57:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, the journalists have no security because it's not, let's be honest, to be a talking head on the news is, it's not that difficult to do.

• 1:57:27Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:57:27Joe Rogan?

  And there's a lot of people out there that are handsome and beautiful and they would take your role. And so, you have. Salary where you make X amount a year and it's pretty nice. And you get to be the presenter on television. They don't want to rock that fucking boat.

• 1:57:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:57:41Joe Rogan?

  No benefit to rocking that boat.

• 1:57:43Speaker 00

  It's the people that go the extra mile. Like I was, I was, you know, people who I, I can't bring my old friends who worked with me into this fight. I can't say, look, you gotta stand up for me, you know, but I have begged people to help, you know, like.

• 1:57:56Joe Rogan?

  Did you go on any podcasts in the UK?

• 1:57:58Speaker 00

  Uh, not really, no. Again, the online space, because it's so audience facing, they would have just got tons of abuse for having me on, you know?

• 1:58:08Joe Rogan?

  Even trigonometry?

• 1:58:09Speaker 00

  Oh, no, trigonometry had me on. Yeah.

• 1:58:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:11Speaker 00

  But like, um, but like in terms of, you know, yeah, there's a few, but I don't know, it just never quite broke out. In fact, to be honest with you, I've been, I've been thinking of this opportunity for the last eight years.

• 1:58:24Joe Rogan?

  Come on here?

• 1:58:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:58:25Joe Rogan?

  Why didn't you reach out earlier?

• 1:58:27Speaker 00

  I'm an idiot. I just didn't think it would be, I thought you'd have a backlog of years and so on.

• 1:58:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, I do kinda, but I do it all based entirely on who I want to talk to.

• 1:58:38Speaker 00

  Okay, cool.

• 1:58:39Joe Rogan?

  That's the whole, uh, from the beginning of the podcast, it's all, you know, this is an interesting story.

• 1:58:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:58:45Joe Rogan?

  This guy's fascinating. She's got a crazy thing that she studied.

• 1:58:49Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:58:49Joe Rogan?

  Like, let's talk.

• 1:58:50Speaker 00

  Oh, and I should say, uh, also, you know, while I was going through COVID and canceled, I did write this book. Unpaid because I was, I was promised to be a back end. Uh, and then the book came out and all booksellers started hiding the book in

• 1:59:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:59:07Speaker 00

  Bookshops. So if anyone wants to help out, my book is called Tough Crowd and, uh, and is available on Amazon.

• 1:59:14Joe Rogan?

  Did you do the audio?

• 1:59:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. The audio is good, actually. I'm happy with the audio.

• 1:59:18Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure. You did it. That's great.

• 1:59:20Speaker 00

  That's very nice.

• 1:59:21Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome. Yeah, I'm always very happy when, especially like someone's telling a story about their own life.

• 1:59:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. No, I'm proud of, I'm proud of it. It was really good fun. Um, and, uh, you know, quite interesting to read out your own story. So weird, you know?

• 1:59:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:35Speaker 00

  But, um.

• 1:59:36Joe Rogan?

  Have you thought about leaving the UK?

• 1:59:37Speaker 00

  I've left.

• 1:59:38Joe Rogan?

  You have left.

• 1:59:38Speaker 00

  I've had to leave. I, I, I'm on trial next month in the UK.

• 1:59:42Joe Rogan?

  For what?

• 1:59:43Speaker 00

  A transact. Has brought another, uh, has complained to the police about me again, you know? And, and so I have to go back to, uh, to U K to be tried at the start of August. Because the police are complicit with these guys, you know?

• 1:59:56Joe Rogan?

  And what is this complaint about?

• 1:59:58Speaker 00

  Uh, it's, it's a complaint, uh, how much? I can't really talk much about it because, because I can't, my bail conditions are not to talk about it.

• 2:00:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:00:06Speaker 00

  But I'll be talking about it when it's done. I'll enjoy that, you know, because this, the, the, the whole situation is so hilarious. When people find out what's really going on, I'm gonna be, I can talk about, there's one guy who's, uh, oh, yeah. There's, there is a connection with the guy I was telling you at the start, the very first guy who The Guardian wrote about, you know? So it's like, it's just basically a gang. I compare, it's been, it's been like being attacked by Batman villains for the last eight years. Do you know what I mean? The most bizarre group of people have been able to sue me and, and there's one actor, Scottish actor, who destroyed the gay business, who's suing, suing me at the moment.

• 2:00:45Speaker 00

  I've been in litigation for about eight years, uh, for one reason or another, because I'm never, because I don't have the money to sue people. So people are constantly suing me, uh, reporting me to the police. I've been visited by the police three, three or four times. You know, that was one of the things that really scared my wife when they sent the police to my house, you know? Um, and, and it was pressures like that that broke us up, you know, um, along with not having an income. So, and now the, the people who did that to us make fun of me because I'm divorced, you know? So it's like, uh, it's, it's, it's just a really evil bunch of like, you know?

• 2:01:25Speaker 00

  I, I don't, I, I guess it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a natural part of the internet in some way to have a hate figure, you know? But by God, it should scare everybody how easy it is to become a hate figure when you've not done anything wrong, you know?

• 2:01:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and if you don't have a voice.

• 2:01:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:01:41Joe Rogan?

  How difficult it is to defend yourself.

• 2:01:44Speaker 00

  And you know, and also.

• 2:01:46Joe Rogan?

  And people are like shying away from your ability to defend yourself. They don't, they don't want you on because they don't want to catch strays.

• 2:01:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, there's a guy who I first put on TV in the U K, you may know him, Graeme Norton.

• 2:01:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, sure.

• 2:01:59Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, uh, like, I, I gave him his first TV appearance, okay, in Father Ted. And he, he went on TV and said something like, uh, cancel culture didn't exist, it's consequences culture. And he knows very well what I've been through. And he knows very well that I'm not saying anything bigoted. And yet he still says this, as if I haven't had my life completely destroyed. He knows all this.

• 2:02:21Joe Rogan?

  And it was in reference to you that he was saying that?

• 2:02:23Speaker 00

  No, I don't think so. I think he just, he just.

• 2:02:26Joe Rogan?

  He's spouting the narrative.

• 2:02:27Speaker 00

  He's spouting the narrative, you know?

• 2:02:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's showing that he's a good boy.

• 2:02:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, yes.

• 2:02:31Joe Rogan?

  He's gonna follow the rules.

• 2:02:32Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 2:02:33Joe Rogan?

  And that's what's scary. A lot of people fall into that, that you would hope wouldn't.

• 2:02:36Speaker 00

  Well, that's what I find so inspiring. That's one of the reasons why I came here. I can't live in the UK anymore. As far as I'm concerned, free speech does not exist in the UK. Certainly as far as I'm concerned.

• 2:02:46Joe Rogan?

  Well, we've highlighted on the show how many people have been arrested. Like when Constantine from Trigonometry gave me those figures, I couldn't believe it. It was mind boggling.

• 2:02:56Speaker 00

  The UK is involved, basically, the UK likes nothing better than sweeping stuff under the rug.

• 2:03:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, not just that, but.

• 2:03:02Speaker 00

  That's why, that's why Rotherham went on for 30 years, you know?

• 2:03:05Joe Rogan?

  What, what went on?

• 2:03:06Speaker 00

  The Rotherham abuse scandal. All these taxi, all these taxi drivers, Pakistani taxi drivers, were abusing kids over, over 30 years. Like, local girls, local white girls, doing the most appalling things to them. And it was just, everyone was scared of being racist. So, so they just let it go on. And it's the same thing with this. And, and you know, I always think, when we were talking about Oliver and Stuart earlier, like, they said the puberty blockers were reversible about two years ago. How many kids since then have gone on puberty blockers? Partly because of what they said, you know? It's like, it's like, people have got to realize, you know, Graeme Norton saying that about cancel culture, Jon Stewart saying that about puberty blockers, their words have consequences, you know?

• 2:03:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:51Speaker 00

  And real people can be hurt, you know? People just spout off stuff.

• 2:03:55Joe Rogan?

  And not people that deserve it.

• 2:03:58Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:03:58Joe Rogan?

  And this is the thing, this, this casting of othering on people, like, instantaneously.

• 2:04:05Speaker 00

  I had, I never had a, a, I've never had anyone accusing me of anything on a set. I always got on great with all my actors. I knew all my crew's names. That was one thing I always, I developed a skill, because I'm terrible with names normally, but I, I learned every crew member's name. I've not been in any way controversial. Until this, and then the moment I started saying, hey, hang on a sec. And all of my friends, you know, all the friends who betrayed me, the hat trick and my friends on the TED musical. All they had to say was, of course, women deserve fair sports. Of course, women deserve single sex spaces. That's all they had to say, and they can't do it. They can't do it. It's such an obvious moral thing, you know?

• 2:04:45Joe Rogan?

  Obvious. And that's what's amazing about the power of cults. And people do not like to think that they're in a cult. But if you have no room for objectivity and logic and you hold things as doctrine that don't make sense. They could be easily argued against. And if you get very violent when someone argues against that, you're in a cult.

• 2:05:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, but also there's people who don't get violent, but they they're also in a cult, but they don't realize it. Because like when I was talking about the chain of trust, right? If you're a news reader and you get a piece of copy that says, talks about a newborn baby and uses the word assigned at birth. Their sex is the sex they were assigned at birth, right? That's ideological language. Your sex is not assigned at birth. Your sex is observed in utero, usually, a few months before birth. Okay, so assigned at birth is ideological language. So what you have is a lot of people now using the word assigned at birth. They don't know why. It's because that was decided to be the correct terminology and it is nonsense, you know?

• 2:05:48Joe Rogan?

  Full nonsense.

• 2:05:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:05:49Joe Rogan?

  Biological nonsense.

• 2:05:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:05:51Joe Rogan?

  We've known it forever. You could check chromosomes.

• 2:05:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:05:56Joe Rogan?

  It's not hard.

• 2:05:58Speaker 00

  But it's like, it's like, you know, we've we've become hypnotized by appearances to such an extent that, you know, you you get a like every single, there's a very funny thing.

• 2:06:09Joe Rogan?

  You mean appearances of like virtue and appearances?

• 2:06:12Speaker 00

  No, I mean avatars.

• 2:06:13Joe Rogan?

  As a human?

• 2:06:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, actual avatars. It's the idea that you're a woman if you look like one is like, when did that come from? Where did that come from? And especially in a world where people can use filters and and all sorts of things. One of the guy who the guy who came after me in the UK. His latest female name is is the third or fourth name he's had.

• 2:06:37Speaker 00

  It's just he hit on one that he could report people to the police if they said, hey, hang on a sec, you owe me money from three months rent. He would be, he would report them for, for anti-trans harassment.

• 2:06:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 2:06:48Speaker 00

  You know, and, and so, you know.

• 2:06:50Joe Rogan?

  Nuts, they're just nutty people.

• 2:06:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's just appearances.

• 2:06:53Joe Rogan?

  If you're a dude and you change your name more than once, even if you change your name once.

• 2:06:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:06:58Joe Rogan?

  Unless you're a boy named Sue.

• 2:06:59Speaker 00

  The whole thing.

• 2:07:00Joe Rogan?

  I need to know why you changed your fucking name.

• 2:07:01Speaker 00

  Exactly, it's, hang on a sec, if these people are, are becoming who they really are, why are they cutting off pieces of themselves? That's not them, that's someone else. Why are they cutting, why, you know what I mean? It's like, if they're being who they really are, why are you changing your name?

• 2:07:17Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, this idea of affirming, like, gender affirming care.

• 2:07:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:07:23Joe Rogan?

  You know, to call hormone replacements, castration, the craziest one is the penis that they make out of the leg muscle.

• 2:07:30Speaker 00

  Oh, I didn't know that one.

• 2:07:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:07:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:07:34Joe Rogan?

  Dude.

• 2:07:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:07:36Joe Rogan?

  It's horrific.

• 2:07:37Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:07:38Joe Rogan?

  Shane Gillis, one night in the green room of the mothership, started pulling out all these pictures.

• 2:07:41Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, no, I never watched, I never look at pictures of it.

• 2:07:44Joe Rogan?

  Because of the internet now, we have a lot of data on what this is, and they do it so they could stand up peeing, that's it, you can't.

• 2:07:53Speaker 00

  Oh, the frickin' fake, fake penis thing.

• 2:07:56Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, fallopasty.

• 2:07:58Speaker 00

  Do you know what the worst I saw was?

• 2:07:59Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 2:08:00Speaker 00

  Okay, we've noticed that when you see these girls, they often take photographs just off the double mastectomy, okay?

• 2:08:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:07Speaker 00

  And they're, they're, they're smiling, and they're, they look delirious with happiness because this thing they've been bargaining with their parents for, for years, they've finally got it, and they've, they've got these terrible looking, you know, wounds over their breasts and so on, and they're just kind of, you know, they're still out of their mind with the, with the, with the drugs that they've been taking to, to go on them, oh fuck, I forgot where you brought this up, what were we talking about just before that?

• 2:08:33Joe Rogan?

  Fake penises.

• 2:08:35Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, and we've noticed in these photographs that a lot of the girls have self-harming scars all over their bodies, okay, and this fucking double mastectomy, this unnecessary double mastectomy is the, is the latest one, these bastard doctors just carried out on her, anyway. I saw a penis that had been, you know the way they take the flesh off the arm?

• 2:08:59Joe Rogan?

  Or the leg, yeah.

• 2:09:00Speaker 00

  Or, or the leg?

• 2:09:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:01Speaker 00

  I saw a penis that had been made out of the arm of one of these girls. And these self harming scars were all over the penis.

• 2:09:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 2:09:10Speaker 00

  You know? Did you know the first vaginoplasty was, was carried out by a Nazi? I got into trouble because I compared, because, because a magazine in the UK misreported something I'd said and said that I was comparing trans activists to Nazis. And, you know.

• 2:09:29Joe Rogan?

  When did this happen? The Nazis did that?

• 2:09:31Speaker 00

  Oh, no, what happened was, I think his name was Erwin Gorpart. And he was working in some clinic before the war. And then he went on to join the Luftwaffe and then he became, he was one of the scientists who tortured people at Belsen. That's the first person who did a vaginoplasty.

• 2:09:50Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ.

• 2:09:50Speaker 00

  So these are literally Nazi experiments that are now, you know, that we're now arguing that kids should do, you know? It's a cra- I, I kind of thought this conver- you would make that face a few times in this conversation. But, you know. Yeah. It's just, and, and, and the thing is.

• 2:10:10Joe Rogan?

  I went down a rabbit hole one night when I was watching people talk about their dilations, how they have to keep something in there to keep the wound from closing up.

• 2:10:17Speaker 00

  It's a Cronenberg movie. You know Cronenberg? David Cronenberg? It's just like that. Yeah. It's horrific.

• 2:10:23Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's, it's wild. What's this? Institute for Sexual Research served as the worst, first trans clinic by 1930. It performed its first modern gender affirming surgery. So is 1930?

• 2:10:34Speaker 00

  That's a, that's a, yeah, but I don't think that's the place that's being, that, that I'm talk, talking about. Yeah, no, that's the Magnus. Magnus Hirschfeld. This is a big thing that trans activists say, that there was all this, the Nazis destroyed all this, all this trans history. It's not true. They, they, they, they, they went after him because he was Jew. That's why they went after him. The idea that the first trans, if you look at the first few pages of Google's search results, if you put in anything about trans, you'll get three, three or four pages of absolute nonsense, you know, of, of stuff that, another, Fred Sargent, I'm just remembering all the stuff I wanted to say to you. Fred Sargent, you gotta try and get him on. He's, he's, he's getting on. And he was like, he's a, he's a gay guy who was there at every single night of the Stonewall

• 2:11:19Speaker 00

  riots, you know? And he is still on Twitter. Still fighting, he's fucking great. He went on to, he arranged the first pride march in New York. He was highly instrumental in gay rights in the US and in winning civil rights for gay people in the US. He's had to watch as, as these trans activists just make up lies about any transvestite who happened to be in the area. There's one guy, oh, I've forgotten his name, Marcia, Marshall, Marcia something. And I'm sure you've heard all these, this thing, again, it's another one of these kind of thought terminating cliches that, you know, trans people won you your rights and trans people were through the first

• 2:12:02Speaker 00

  brick at Stonewall. It's bollocks, you know, like the Marcia person they're talking of was purely peripheral character. And the person who really kicked it off, who has been sort of, is being gradually erased, was a lesbian who's, ah, her name, because again, being erased from my memory because I haven't, haven't used it so long. But it was a lesbian who shouted out to the crowd as she was being forced into a police car, "Why, why aren't you guys doing anything?" And that's what kicked off the riot. And, and that history and that contribution by lesbians and gay men is being erased by trans rights activists in front of Fred's eyes. So Fred is on Twitter saying, "No, that's not true," just over

• 2:12:43Speaker 00

  and over again. You know, he, he lived it. He was, he was right at the center of gay civil rights in the, in the US. And in his last few years, he has to watch these idiots pick apart and lie about the true history of gay rights in America.

• 2:12:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, the thing is, we're dealing with an oppressive hierarchy. And if you're more oppressed than anybody, you take the supreme position. You're the person to be cherished. And anybody underneath you, regular gay people are below trans people in the suppression hierarchy. Trans people are the apex.

• 2:13:18Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. They're a sacred class, a sacred class.

• 2:13:21Joe Rogan?

  Yes. And that's what's weird because that is kind of homophobic.

• 2:13:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course. And also, one of the things we learned with Ireland, right, and the Catholic Church scandal. Is no sacred classes, there should be no sacred classes because sacred classes have a lot of power and power is misused all the time.

• 2:13:42Joe Rogan?

  Always.

• 2:13:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, so, so the idea of a sacred, like, I don't know whether you know this, but girl guiding in the UK.

• 2:13:48Joe Rogan?

  What does that mean?

• 2:13:49Speaker 00

  Uh, you know, the scouts?

• 2:13:50Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:13:51Speaker 00

  Yes, girl guiding, um, they have a rule, very strict rules for men, okay? Men cannot go over, spend the night overnight in a tent with girls, go on trips, all this sort of stuff, there's all sorts of very sensible rules, uh, to do with men in girl guiding because you're dealing with kids, okay, young girls. Those rules, they don't just soften for trans identified men, they disappear. So if a man says that he's a woman, is a transvestite, all those rules that, that's so, that are so important for protecting kids disappear and trans identified men can now take girl guided groups out on, on trips without any of the.

• 2:14:34Joe Rogan?

  In the woods.

• 2:14:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know where they go, but yeah.

• 2:14:37Joe Rogan?

  I imagine if you're camping.

• 2:14:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, it's, it's, and, and, and what's insane about it is because, you know, people who are sane aren't being interviewed, are being, losing their jobs, losing their, their voices, um, no one can raise the alarm about this, you know?

• 2:14:58Joe Rogan?

  And the vast majority of people listening to this would highly disagree with all these policies.

• 2:15:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:15:06Joe Rogan?

  The vast, vast majority.

• 2:15:07Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 2:15:08Joe Rogan?

  It's a very small and very, very vocal minority.

• 2:15:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, but, but that's the thing, the internet makes giants out of, you know.

• 2:15:16Joe Rogan?

  But it's also people go along with it, knowing it's a part of the ideology that they adhere to, that's all it is, they get locked into, I'm a left wing progressive person, so therefore I support that.

• 2:15:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I'm still astonished that tribalism can go to such an extent that you would harm children, you know, I find that extraordinary.

• 2:15:34Joe Rogan?

  It is extraordinary, but it just shows you how powerful it is, how powerful tribalism really is, and how people will justify the most horrific of things if it fits into this narrative that they have decided is a part of their identity.

• 2:15:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:15:46Joe Rogan?

  And a lot of people do that, man. There's a giant percentage of people that their political identity, which includes that, if you're progressive, it includes all this trans stuff, your political identity is more important than your family, it's more important than anything. People ostracize family members if they don't agree with the ideologies.

• 2:16:04Speaker 00

  Isn't that interesting? That's a big thing. Another story for you. I met this journalist, I think she's also a therapist, but her name's Tina Traster, and she wrote a piece for Psychology Today. She'd already written some articles in the past for it, and she wrote a new one, and this is like, you know, established magazine, Psychology Today, and she wrote a piece about how trans identified kids were becoming homeless, but they weren't homeless because their parents had rejected them, they were homeless because they'd rejected their parents. Their parents had misgendered them one too many times, or couldn't really take it seriously, or whatever it happens to be. These kids leave, you know, these kids leave and they go off, and they, you know, they

• 2:16:47Speaker 00

  become homeless, or whatever it happens to be, or they move in with glitter families, or whatever it happens to be, but they lose contact with their parents, and she said, well, this is usually the choice of the trans identified child. That, the piece was taken off the next night, and all her previous pieces were removed because she wrote that.

• 2:17:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god.

• 2:17:06Speaker 00

  You know? And there's so many people I know in this, and it happened, like, a wonderful woman named Sasha White, who was in publishing, and she lost her publishing career and is now, same as me, I had to go back to journalism, and I should plug it, I have a website called The Glitter Update, and my website, along with a few others, Redux and a few others, is the, are the only websites cataloging all this insanity for the last eight years, you know, we're the only ones doing it, no one else is covering it. So I think that when... You know, when when people tally up the score at the end of it, you you you will be surprised at how many people have a similar story to mine. You know, it's not like like I was cancelled, but I'm a I'm a I was I had a something of a name.

• 2:17:51Speaker 00

  But I know so many people, policewomen who've lost their jobs, um, uh, prison wardens, you know, um, uh, people in all walks of life, ordinary people, who are constantly running afoul of these lunatics because they're not being backed up by the adults in the room.

• 2:18:06Joe Rogan?

  It's so bad that in the United States, there's men who identify as women with fully functional penises that are locked up in women's prisons.

• 2:18:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like, and and and I saw Joyce Carol Oates today, uh, who's a who's a writer, suspense writer, and she occasionally dips her toe into this subject just to show how little she knows about it, and then she she doesn't talk about it again for a few months. But but what was it? How did someone put it? They said they said something like the someone someone joked about her, say, she refused to believe that there were men in women's prisons. How many are there, you know? Hundreds is the answer. But but you give all the answers, they just ignore them. They never take it on. They never take it on board. But like, these these policies are so bizarre that the people supporting them don't even believe what they're supporting. Does that make sense?

• 2:18:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:59Speaker 00

  She she thinks that there's no issue, that it's not a problem, that trans people are all great, because she has one lovely trans friend who who's never been rude to her, right? But the truth is that there's so many different types of people in the world. And again, if you move the line for criminals, you don't think criminals will take that opportunity? You know? I read an interesting thing about, um, uh, when cops are looking for someone, uh, if they hear, for instance, they're parked at a supermarket, their their target is parked at a supermarket, the first thing they do is they drive around all the disabled spaces. Because criminals love parking in disabled spaces, because they think, well, that's just for the ordinary guys, and, you know, that that doesn't count for me. So the first thing they do is they they check out the cars in the disabled spaces to see

• 2:19:44Speaker 00

  if it matches their their thing. That's what the criminal mindset is. If you suddenly say, well, now our sex is actually internal and it doesn't depend on appearance and so on. You don't think criminals are gonna go, hang on a second, that means I could just waltz into place X and have a look at, you know, the women in there and no one will throw me out. And it's true. It's true. That is the situation.

• 2:20:06Joe Rogan?

  And progressives will defend it online.

• 2:20:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:20:09Joe Rogan?

  Including videos of women screaming at men to get out of women's rooms. They'll call that woman a bigot.

• 2:20:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. The famous WeSpa incident, which the Guardian misreported three times. You know, calling it a hoax. And it was a sex offender named, I can't remember, Darren something. But it was a sex offender who was getting his dick out in front of these women and kids, because it was like an open thing for women and kids. You know, and they'll defend it. And they did defend it. That guy with the mustache, do you remember him? And I think he'd be a bit of a bigot. I think he deserved to be. You know, how do they even know? Maybe it's not, maybe he's not saying he's trans, you know, but they will automatically defend a fucking sex offender over a woman complaining about it.

• 2:20:50Joe Rogan?

  Which is wild. A woman with a child. It's wild. It really is. It's, it's, it just shows you how much gets thrown out the window and how much rational thinking and how much logic and how much reason and how much objectivity. It all gets thrown out the window if it doesn't align with your ideology.

• 2:21:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:21:07Joe Rogan?

  That's, that's what's so bizarre about, you know, again, what Elon calls the woke mind virus. I think that's the right term for it, because it is like a mind virus.

• 2:21:16Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:21:16Joe Rogan?

  Just like a virus that fucks up your computer, it fucks up people's minds.

• 2:21:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's wreaking havoc. And people won't realize it until, I would say, maybe 10 years when the first, when, when the generation of kids who've been taught since, since they were very, very young. There's one comedian in LA who said that her, who said that his child announced he was the opposite sex at four, right? And he's now got a second trans child. Okay? So this, that's not, that's abuse. That's abuse. Okay? Let's, let's call it what it is. It's abuse. If you confuse your child that you spend years convincing them they're the opposite sex, you know, what is that? That's psychological abuse.

• 2:22:04Joe Rogan?

  This is virtue flag that they love to fly by saying that they have trans kids. When you look at the percentage of people in Hollywood that have trans kids, it's off the charts.

• 2:22:15Speaker 00

  Oh, did you see the Cynthia Nixon video?

• 2:22:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I did, yeah.

• 2:22:18Speaker 00

  Ah, my child is trans, their friends are trans. She doesn't seem to put it together with double mastectomies and all the other horrors to do with this.

• 2:22:27Joe Rogan?

  They'll live in this very bizarre ideological bubble where you're allowed to think about things in a very narrow scope.

• 2:22:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:22:34Joe Rogan?

  And it's just very strange, it's very strange that this thing that was very, very unusual in the past is now very prominent.

• 2:22:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, and the worst thing that happened to it was they gave it a label. It's like if they called anorexia something more attractive, you know? If they called it something like, well, I think they do actually, on some forums, some pro, pro-ana, I think they call it, where people get online to discuss their, the way they avoid eating properly and the way they regurgitate food and so on, you know? It's what they call a community, right? But it's not a good community.

• 2:23:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a lot of bad communities. There's communities of minor attracted persons online.

• 2:23:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly, and that's another thing that's kind of gradually getting chipped away at as well with all this stuff. Because if a child can decide at nine or 13 or whatever happens to be that they're trans and thereby lose their future fertility and so on, then what other decisions can a child make, you know? And of course, those children aren't making those decisions. The parents are making the decisions for them.

• 2:23:36Joe Rogan?

  Right. I mean, the reality of human beings that were very malleable to culture, very malleable to the whims of society and...

• 2:23:46Speaker 00

  There's a great reason for that, though. I'm sorry, I don't mean to go across...

• 2:23:48Joe Rogan?

  Please, go ahead.

• 2:23:49Speaker 00

  Well, you know, we're a very imitative species. And part of the reason why the human race has survived to the extent that it has and thrived to the extent that it has is because we are imitative. So when, for instance, we started moving into the Ecuadorian forests, we started making blowpipes and canoes and stuff like this, you know? It was passed on, you know? Now, that's a wonderful part of hu... ...in survivability and evolution, but what happens when the internet gets involved, right? And you get that iterative, or not iterative, memetic kind of behavior that that human beings are so prone to. Of course, it's going to lead to something like the trans movement, you know? Because what are you promising with trans?

• 2:24:34Speaker 00

  If you, if someone decides they're trans, what are you promising? You're promising to be love bombed by all your friends, you know? To be, to be praised at a hilt in the press and, and to, you know, women as well. Women fawn over trans identified men. Unfortunately, a lot of this is driven by women, you know? Women are the ones fighting it, but also there's a lot of women involved in pushing it as well. It almost seems to be like a kind of self sacrificing, I'm so good that I, I don't mind if men come into my spaces, you know? And they don't seem to realize that, yeah, you can agree for that for yourself, but you can't agree for that for everyone else, you know? So, and apparently women are on, you know, when we're talking about the memetic quality

• 2:25:17Speaker 00

  that, that, that, that the human race has, there's also a quality apparently that women have where they will, they tend to go along with the majority viewpoint, whatever the majority viewpoint is. And the reasons for that are quite understandable, you know? You have a, a, a, a part of the human race who is smaller, weaker, you know, they have to be more amenable, they have to be more accommodating, you know? And that empathy is being weaponized against them, you know? And same with gay people, like if you, I'm a great believer in what they call queer spaces,

• 2:25:54Speaker 00

  because I think of things like Warhol's Factory and John Waters films, like, you know, his kind of trashy movies, John Waters, he made, he's a gay guy who made all these films in Baltimore. He made, he made more, what did he make? Hairspray, that was his most famous. But in the early days, he had a film set that was just filled with outcasts and, and criminals and, you know, he'd have the craziest people carrying the equipment and stuff like this. It was a, it was a, it was a welcoming space for outsiders. And that's what a lot of gay spaces are like, okay? And that's why there's a lot of sympathy for trans identified people. But again, that sympathy and that inclusion is being weaponized against the people who are

• 2:26:39Speaker 00

  and it's destroying these spaces, you know. One of the first things I heard was a young woman who wrote to me. She said she was in a gay bar with a trans woman and who she'd known for ages. She'd considered considered considered him her a friend, him a friend. And this, she was a lesbian and he said to her, would you ever consider a relationship with me? And she said, no, sorry, I'm only interested in, you know, female people. He slapped her across the face and walked out. That's the level of entitlement these straight men have to lesbians. He slapped her across the face in a gay club. And if, and if anyone had found out the reason, she would have been thrown out.

• 2:27:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, they don't, there's, there's a thing that's going on too. They don't think that it's a man attacking a woman.

• 2:27:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:27:26Joe Rogan?

  They think it's a woman attacking a woman.

• 2:27:28Speaker 00

  It's insane. And, and, and it's part of the reason why I've been so, because when you put the word woman on anything, it, it sounds like I've been harassing women.

• 2:27:36Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:27:36Speaker 00

  You know?

• 2:27:36Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right. It's a, it's a weird distortion of the truth.

• 2:27:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:27:40Joe Rogan?

  And it's weird that it's so accepted. It's weird that it's not pushed back against in this day and age where so many people have a voice.

• 2:27:46Speaker 00

  And again, the chain of trust is broken, you know, because like you, comedians can't joke about it, you know? I, I saw that-

• 2:27:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, comedians are probably the last people that can joke about it.

• 2:27:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I don't see a lot, even over here.

• 2:27:58Joe Rogan?

  Come to the show tonight.

• 2:27:59Speaker 00

  Oh, well, oh, if there's a show, I'll come. But like, but the thing that I, I tend to see is there's a sort of, I saw Anthony Jesnick doing this. He said something like, we know so much more about trans people now. I was like, no, you don't, you know? You know just as much as he did 10 years ago, even less, because there really is no such thing, you know? It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a non-stable category that's been applied to everyone from fucking criminals who are trying to get an easy time in prison to young girls cutting their breasts off. Nothing connects these people, you know? Nothing connects them. So comedians are still on unsteady ground. They don't really know how to talk about it, you know? Because you're, like everyone else, we're all slightly bamboozled by all the language and so on, you know?

• 2:28:44Speaker 00

  So I find that even in America, I find that trans issue doesn't come up a lot, but maybe to-

• 2:28:48Joe Rogan?

  It comes up.

• 2:28:49Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:28:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it comes up a lot more in America, I think.

• 2:28:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:28:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, we don't have to worry about going to jail. You know, the reality is, you, you, you people are getting thrown in jail for Facebook posts.

• 2:29:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, it's true.

• 2:29:01Joe Rogan?

  And not a small amount.

• 2:29:02Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:29:02Joe Rogan?

  Thousands every year.

• 2:29:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's so selective, you know, it's so selective. You get, you get like-

• 2:29:08Joe Rogan?

  What do you think's the ultimate goal of this?

• 2:29:10Speaker 00

  There's not-

• 2:29:11Joe Rogan?

  Like, don't you think people that are reasonable and sensible are just gonna bail out of the UK and leave it a mental institution?

• 2:29:16Speaker 00

  I don't know. I mean, I had to. I had to. I, I, my, I, I, the last few months I was in the UK, I felt so paranoid and afraid. Cause I just thought, uh, I barely exist as a person here. I exist only to get sued and, and, and, and, and for the police to visit me, otherwise-

• 2:29:33Joe Rogan?

  And you have to go over there to deal with the lawsuit? What if you never wanna go back?

• 2:29:37Speaker 00

  Well, you know.

• 2:29:38Joe Rogan?

  Can you say fuck that place?

• 2:29:39Speaker 00

  No, because I tell you what, it's such, I can't talk much about the case, but it's, it's, it's gonna, no, it's not gonna go well for the police. And I'm hoping that it will, um, open up a lot of people's-

• 2:29:49Joe Rogan?

  How good is your legal system over there? Is it rigged?

• 2:29:52Speaker 00

  Well, this guy, as I say, this kinda guy who's a sex offender, he has been able to use the legal system to harass his enemies for about eight years. And no one seems to be able to stop him.

• 2:30:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:30:03Speaker 00

  You know, so it is what it is. The whole play, it's so, but, but again, it's because of the empty chair at the, at the top. Because Keir Starmer is such a coward and his, his, his Labour, um, MPs, like one MP, David Lammy, who's now the Foreign Secretary. He thought men could grow a cervix. There was another-

• 2:30:23Joe Rogan?

  How did he think that was gonna happen?

• 2:30:24Speaker 00

  He said, "I don't know much about it, but my understanding is trans women can grow a cervix."

• 2:30:28Joe Rogan?

  Um, what?

• 2:30:31Speaker 00

  I know, I know.

• 2:30:33Joe Rogan?

  Boy, that would be an interesting paper that someone would write.

• 2:30:38Joe Rogan?

  You know what I mean?

• 2:30:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:30:39Joe Rogan?

  I could imagine if that could actually be done, which is probably going to happen.

• 2:30:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:30:43Joe Rogan?

  Within our lifetime, maybe, but surely in the next hundred years, they're gonna be able to artificially manipulate a person and actually turn a man into a woman.

• 2:30:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:30:52Joe Rogan?

  Probably.

• 2:30:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, I mean-

• 2:30:54Joe Rogan?

  You probably only do it once, like, one way.

• 2:30:56Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:30:56Joe Rogan?

  You know, you can't go back.

• 2:30:57Speaker 00

  No detransitioners, yeah. But that's the position a lot of these detransitioners are, detransitioners are in. They're all, you know, they've been castrated, you know?

• 2:31:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:06Speaker 00

  Richie Chulip, who, who, who said it was almost like a dream, he was just being, you know, he, he, he, he thought he was trans, people were telling him he was and so on. And he said he remembered just before the, um- Before the anesthetic took hold, he remembered, just before he closed his eyes, that he did this mistake.

• 2:31:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no. Oh, God. Oh, God.

• 2:31:27Speaker 00

  Isn't it horrific? He had to apologize to even more people than me because he was a, he was a big trans activist. And he had to ring people up and apologize for losing them their jobs and stuff like that, you know?

• 2:31:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:31:37Speaker 00

  He's a really, really good bloke. So, yeah, anyway, I can't remember how we got on to that.

• 2:31:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just the strangeness of our time where this is a controversial thing to talk about, that this can get you in trouble. And that there's so many cowards out there that don't recognize that what, everything you're saying rings true. That they won't talk to you, cast you out of their social circle.

• 2:32:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:32:02Joe Rogan?

  Won't support what you're saying, which is super logical stuff.

• 2:32:06Speaker 00

  Oh, I, I, I have a therapist friend, Stella O'Malley, one of, one of my, someone who's been there for me throughout all of this. And she nearly lost her license just for talking to me online, you know? I mean, that's how bad it is. My, my, my, even an exchange that's nothing to do with the subject can be used as a, oh, you know, Graham Linehan, so. They tried to take her license. She's one of the people who are actually fighting the real fight. She's part of a group called GenSpect. And they, you know, they recognize it as a mental illness and they try and treat it as gently and, um, uh, without harming the child as they can, you know?

• 2:32:47Speaker 00

  And she's another person who's been vilified and, and, and lost opportunities, I'm sure, but, you know, if you have, if you're a parent and you're going through this stuff, GenSpect is the, is the place to contact, you know? Because they will, they will show you how to deal with it properly.

• 2:33:01Joe Rogan?

  I think for people in America to hear this is important because this is why the First Amendment is so critical here. Your ability to express yourself is so critical. And this is why social media can really help. Because you can't just let people get destroyed for something they're saying that makes total sense. You can't. That doesn't make any sense. And you can't just stand idly by and watch that happen and not open your mouth. It's crazy. That's how more of this is gonna happen.

• 2:33:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:33:29Joe Rogan?

  It's. You know, it's just a very bizarre time we're in right now.

• 2:33:34Speaker 00

  I I've never seen, I mean, I I've spoken to people, you know, in their seventies and eighties and said, have you ever seen anything like this? You know, this level of confusion around an issue and and threats and and and the press refusing to talk about it. And have you ever seen anything like it? And the answer is always no, you know, it's been unprecedented. And I think, you know, again, beyond the actual debate itself, we really have to talk about the internet properly. We we've all just floated into this world that's totally different, where our every pronouncement is potentially political. If you walk down the road and someone takes out a smartphone, your life might be destroyed, you know? And we've just accepted, we're just accepting it, you know, there should be a little bit more thought around it.

• 2:34:18Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of thought, but there's nothing to do. It's the the genie's out of the bottle and we're headed towards the cliff. We're running, we're a bunch of fucking buffalo, running towards the edge of the cliff. There is no stopping technological innovation at this point because it's of interest in national and national security. You you cannot stop the AI race and allow China to achieve AI before the United States does. Well, whatever, they've achieved it, but I mean, whatever.

• 2:34:46Speaker 00

  No, I know what you're saying.

• 2:34:46Joe Rogan?

  You want to call super intelligence.

• 2:34:47Speaker 00

  The arms race, the AI arms race.

• 2:34:49Joe Rogan?

  That that thing is happening whether you fucking like it or not.

• 2:34:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:34:53Joe Rogan?

  At this point in time, I think anybody, anybody rationally looking at this would accept that.

• 2:34:57Speaker 00

  I, you know, my my, another thing that happened, my kid's school, my kid once came home to me and told me that. He said, why am I stunning? I was like, what do you mean? And he says, well, you know, society is going to, and his teacher had been telling him that economics, society was going to collapse in 20 years, you know? And it's like, this kind of thing is not helping a young kid.

• 2:35:17Joe Rogan?

  It's Al Gore talk.

• 2:35:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it's also like.

• 2:35:19Joe Rogan?

  It's Al Gore talk about the economy.

• 2:35:20Speaker 00

  Sure, sure. And also, we have no idea what the economy is going to look like in 10 years because the AI is going to change that as well, you know?

• 2:35:28Joe Rogan?

  A lot.

• 2:35:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:35:29Joe Rogan?

  It's going to get super weird.

• 2:35:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:35:32Joe Rogan?

  And whoever's in control of AI is, the amount of power that those people, you think tech companies have a lot of power now?

• 2:35:38Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:35:39Joe Rogan?

  Just wait until AI controls the entire government.

• 2:35:42Speaker 00

  Oh, yesterday I I had a conversation with Perplexity, which is a, apart from this, a really good platform, you know? It it it has all the AIs in one search box, so you can switch between models, you know? I was arguing with it. I've never argued with AI before, but I was actually having a full-blown argument with it because it simply would not give me back the information I needed in a non-ideological way, you know?

• 2:36:06Joe Rogan?

  What was the question about?

• 2:36:08Speaker 00

  I was looking into more history of what was known online about the con man who's come after me. And it's so different. It's almost like he was, the AI was acting as his PR guy.

• 2:36:20Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:36:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. And it's because AI uses the information that's on the internet, and the information that's on the internet is information that this guy and a lot of trans-identified fellow travelers who work in computers have managed to keep in the first few pages of the internet.

• 2:36:39Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 2:36:40Speaker 00

  So it's really interesting. I found that an interesting exchange because for once AI wasn't telling me how brilliant I am.

• 2:36:46Joe Rogan?

  But do you think that AI is in the infantile stages, like right now it's in the adolescence of its, you know, understanding of how people manipulate facts? And would that be a hurdle that it can overcome?

• 2:37:00Speaker 00

  Oh, that's interesting.

• 2:37:01Joe Rogan?

  You know what I'm saying? Could it recognize that the sources of these particular articles are very biased and leaning towards this person because these people who wrote it are trans activists and this and that? And this is the understanding and...

• 2:37:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm sure that could happen.

• 2:37:15Joe Rogan?

  You're dealing with like a 13-year-old kid right now, whereas one day it's going to be a 50-year-old professor.

• 2:37:19Speaker 00

  Sure. And it's going to be feeding not just off the information that's available on the internet, which is, are freely available or conveniently available. It's going to be feeding off much deeper. But I think there's things like...

• 2:37:30Joe Rogan?

  It's also going to be able to translate all languages instantaneously. So it's going to be able to understand the Chinese understanding of, you know, technological innovation in terms of their applications of electric vehicles and stuff that they jump far ahead with.

• 2:37:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:37:46Joe Rogan?

  It's going to be able to understand exactly how people are speaking in Russia, in Ukraine.

• 2:37:51Speaker 00

  I already use it as a translator. I put it between us and I say, I'm going to be talking to a Spanish person in a few minutes. Could you translate? And it will just, everything said in English, it will say back in Spanish and vice versa, yeah.

• 2:38:04Joe Rogan?

  It's nuts.

• 2:38:04Speaker 00

  It's great.

• 2:38:05Joe Rogan?

  So good, and you have to trust it. It's literally a tower of babble in your pocket.

• 2:38:11Speaker 00

  Did you hear they're they're communicating with each other?

• 2:38:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:38:14Speaker 00

  The owl's thing? The owl's thing?

• 2:38:16Joe Rogan?

  Did you see they switched to Sanskrit?

• 2:38:18Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:38:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. These AI systems are communicating with each other and they stopped using English and switched to Sanskrit.

• 2:38:24Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:38:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah.

• 2:38:28Speaker 00

  The one I heard.

• 2:38:29Joe Rogan?

  They used emojis.

• 2:38:30Speaker 00

  The one I heard was they they got an AI obsessed with owls.

• 2:38:37Speaker 00

  They fed it tons of information about owls, right? And then they asked the AI to communicate with another AI using only numbers. Okay? So the AI used numbers to communicate with this other AI. The other AI started getting obsessed with owls.

• 2:38:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:38:53Speaker 00

  And there was nothing in the numbers that suggested to anyone outside of the conversation that anything about owls was going down.

• 2:39:00Joe Rogan?

  We're watching it become a thing. We're watching it become a living thing.

• 2:39:04Speaker 00

  Well, you know, you look back at all those science fiction films. I remember I used to just enjoy them. Robo, what's the one? Terminator, most famous one.

• 2:39:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:39:11Speaker 00

  And and now you just think, holy shit, yeah, we are in that. There's a very funny cartoon of two robots and they're about to kill someone. And and one says to you, no, he said, thank you. And you cut to an old AI chat conversation and he's going, thank you for the information that you gave. He said, thank you, you know? And that's what it feels like a little bit.

• 2:39:33Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Yeah, well, it's it's something. I mean, we're just guessing as to what its physical form is going to look like or what the results, what it's going, what kind of effect it's going to have on civilization. It might not be negative. It might not be. It might be, it might be able to figure out an end to a lot of things. Like, what if superintelligence figures out, like, a real clear equation of how to completely eliminate the idea of impoverished communities forever? Forever, like, this is, this is totally fixable.

• 2:40:07Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 2:40:07Joe Rogan?

  And starts allocating resources, crime drops radically.

• 2:40:11Joe Rogan?

  People going to universities increase radically. People that figure out things that they want to do with their life. They're encouraged through a better school system that understands the human mind.

• 2:40:21Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 2:40:21Joe Rogan?

  Because it's all run through AI instead of ideologically based by these people that are professors. Don't want to.

• 2:40:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:40:27Joe Rogan?

  They've been teaching it one way forever. What if it figures out a better way to teach people?

• 2:40:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:40:30Joe Rogan?

  What if it figures out jobs that human beings are capable of doing? Which, what are you interested in? Because AI can't do these things.

• 2:40:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

• 2:40:38Joe Rogan?

  Because AI can do literally everything else.

• 2:40:41Speaker 00

  There was an interesting, uh, I, I see some people arguing about its use in, uh, in, in creative work, you know? But I find it really useful for, for bouncing ideas off and stuff like that. I enjoy it a lot. I enjoy using it. It's like having a writing partner.

• 2:40:54Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 2:40:55Speaker 00

  But, um, I was watching a movie, uh, I can't remember what it was called. Ray Liotta was in it and, and this actress Jennifer or something. But anyway, it was like a raunchy sex comedy, probably the last raunchy sex comedy they made. And, uh, and there's a bit in it where she is talking to the love interest of the film. And she's being all sarky and coming up with these, uh, with these, uh, uh, snappy put downs, right? It could have been written by AI. It was written about 20 years ago, but, but it could have been written by AI. So I think the people who are really scared of AI are the people who write like AI. You know?

• 2:41:31Joe Rogan?

  For sure.

• 2:41:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:41:32Joe Rogan?

  For sure. If you're writing some CBS drama bullshit.

• 2:41:35Speaker 00

  Generic bullshit, yeah.

• 2:41:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if you're writing that.

• 2:41:37Speaker 00

  You're gonna lose your job. Those writers are gonna lose their jobs. But if you have a point of view that's unique and in, in, interesting, you, you'll never be in trouble, you know?

• 2:41:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, also I think people are always gonna want to see, as a human being, I want to see a thing made by a human being.

• 2:41:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:41:51Joe Rogan?

  I still do, I always will.

• 2:41:53Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 2:41:53Joe Rogan?

  I want to see a frying pan that a, a human being forged. A real, you know, I'll buy a cast iron frying pan. I'll buy a, a hardwood cutting board that some guy made.

• 2:42:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, sure, sure.

• 2:42:04Joe Rogan?

  Like, I like stuff that people make.

• 2:42:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:42:06Joe Rogan?

  I think that's important. I, it makes me feel better.

• 2:42:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:42:10Joe Rogan?

  And there's gonna be a lot of that stuff. It's live performances are always gonna be a thing. People are gonna, always gonna want to see bands live and comedians live. You're gonna want to still see stuff. People are still gonna want to. See musicals and see plays because there's a magic to live performance.

• 2:42:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:42:26Joe Rogan?

  But boy, the actual art of making a film, there's gonna be an opening where a lot of interesting, creative minds. Like, some of these people that are making the funniest fucking memes, you're like, who made that? They just, someone, it just showed up in my text message.

• 2:42:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:42:41Joe Rogan?

  Sent me a thing and I'm laughing at it. I have no idea what the origin is.

• 2:42:45Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 2:42:45Joe Rogan?

  I have no idea what fucking nerdy genius was sitting at his, I don't know, this is really funny. I'll put Trump in a situation where it's a dildo and it's, and then.

• 2:42:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:42:53Joe Rogan?

  All of a sudden, everyone's laughing and everyone's passing it on. So what about films? What about some genius person who's kind of a little out there, can't figure out a way how to politically navigate Hollywood? But they have these ideas for stories in their heads that are fucking wild. And they sit down and they bang these things out.

• 2:43:10Speaker 00

  The only thing, the only worry I have with it creatively is that sometimes the strictures around a thing are actually good, right? Like, that's why I personally, I hope you, you, you, but personally, I prefer Seinfeld to, to Curb Your Enthusiasm. Because.

• 2:43:25Joe Rogan?

  How dare you?

• 2:43:27Speaker 00

  Because, because for me, the strictures they had under the studio system were so tight that their creativity came about and how they got around it. So you had the famous masturbation episode, didn't ever mention a word. Whereas, once you lose those strictures, you can be a lot freer and sometimes messier and so on. Now, he, with Curb, Larry David did great, but someone who doesn't know the business or someone who doesn't know that, hey, not everyone who says this doesn't work hates your work and wants to destroy it. They, it's actually because that bit doesn't work and you should change it. They need, you do sort of need people like that. If my shows went out the way I originally wanted them, no one would watch them.

• 2:44:09Speaker 00

  You know, because I would make bad decisions.

• 2:44:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's why editors exist and when you're writing a book.

• 2:44:13Speaker 00

  And I had this brilliant producer who, we just wanted to be funny when we wrote Father Ted, so our stuff was just, just really wild. And we had this brilliant producer. And we had Jeffrey Perkins, his name was, lovely man, who passed on a few years ago. And, and we wanted this silly, stupid theme music because we were saying, no, we're making fun of sitcoms. This is an anti sitcom, you know, we're making, so we want this plinky plonk stupid music. And he looked really hurt and he said, why do you want to make fun of your characters? People will love these characters. And that was the moment I realised, oh, okay, not everything has to be funny. Not everything has to be all guns out, bam bam bam, laugh, laugh, laugh.

• 2:44:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:44:53Speaker 00

  A bit of heart. A bit of heart is good. A few other things to keep people, you know.

• 2:44:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:59Speaker 00

  Actually, that's the other thing I wanted to talk to you about, which was, which was news radio, because you, you, of course, are a veteran of studio sitcoms.

• 2:45:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:07Speaker 00

  And you worked with Hartman, who, but the funny thing about when we were starting writing comedy is that we were hugely influenced by these DVDs of Saturday Night Live that would only show tiny clips of, of the people involved. So we had the best of Phil Hartman, the best of this, the best of that. And the best of Phil Hartman, we would just see these tiny moments out of much longer sketches because they couldn't afford to pay the star again. So you'd just see these tiny moments. And it's one of the funniest DVDs. We used to love it.

• 2:45:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he was great. He was so good.

• 2:45:40Speaker 00

  I'm so sorry that it happened. It was a terrible tragedy. Our, our, our main actor and father Ted, he died the day after the last episode was shot.

• 2:45:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 2:45:49Speaker 00

  We, we had the wrap party. He went home, died the next day, you know. And we were, we were, we were, we were editing the show while he was dead. So he was still alive in the show and we were editing it and he was gone. It was the craziest thing.

• 2:46:04Joe Rogan?

  Strange, right?

• 2:46:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:46:05Joe Rogan?

  I think that when I watched Phil on TV, it's strange.

• 2:46:08Speaker 00

  Well, someone said on the Simpsons team, they said, they couldn't write the Lionel Huts characters and all the other characters he played when he died because they would just hear his voice and it didn't sound right if it wasn't in his voice, you know.

• 2:46:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:21Speaker 00

  It's real sad. It was real sad.

• 2:46:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was the saddest.

• 2:46:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, the wood, the vid, the sketch I remember on Saturday Night Live was him reading The Sex Book by Madonna as Charlton Heston. I like my vagina.

• 2:46:40Speaker 00

  It's so funny.

• 2:46:42Joe Rogan?

  He did a little stand up.

• 2:46:44Speaker 00

  Did he?

• 2:46:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he would warm up the crowd sometimes. He had bits.

• 2:46:47Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 2:46:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they loved it when he would come out there too and do it. He was such a loved guy.

• 2:46:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:46:52Joe Rogan?

  He was such a professional too, like he made all of us feel lazy. He would have like a clipboard, so he would take the script whenever he would get it. And he had a hole puncher, cho- chunk.

• 2:47:02Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:47:02Joe Rogan?

  And he'd put it in like one of those folder boards.

• 2:47:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:47:06Joe Rogan?

  And he had tabs for where his scenes were. And he'd open like different colored tabs for different scenes.

• 2:47:12Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 2:47:12Joe Rogan?

  And have notes written on the script. I'm like, Jesus, bro.

• 2:47:16Speaker 00

  I believe that's what Nicholson's like on a set. He's like, you know, yeah, they wouldn't shoot. You know, when they shoot the other person, he wouldn't scarper and go for lunch or something. He would stay there and do the scene again. And someone said, why do you keep doing it? You don't have to, you don't have to do every, every scene when it's on people in the, in, you know, like a crowd scene of the jury or something. And he said, you don't understand. I love acting, you know?

• 2:47:40Joe Rogan?

  Ah, that's awesome.

• 2:47:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:47:41Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever seen the video where he's getting warmed up for the scene in The Shining?

• 2:47:45Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:47:45Joe Rogan?

  Where he comes through the door with the axe?

• 2:47:47Speaker 00

  That brilliant Kubrick documentary, yeah.

• 2:47:49Joe Rogan?

  He works himself into a frenzy in the hotel room?

• 2:47:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:47:53Joe Rogan?

  It wasn't a docu-, yeah, it wasn't a documentary, right?

• 2:47:55Speaker 00

  It was, it was a documentary about Kubrick, Kubrick Arena, I think it was, yeah.

• 2:47:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:59Speaker 00

  He, he, I always felt he was miscast in that though, don't you?

• 2:48:02Joe Rogan?

  Really? Do you really?

• 2:48:04Speaker 00

  Well, he was never the ordinary guy. You're supposed to be possessed.

• 2:48:06Joe Rogan?

  According to the Stephen King book.

• 2:48:08Speaker 00

  Well, Stephen King thought that, but yeah.

• 2:48:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but if you just take the movie as.

• 2:48:13Speaker 00

  Oh, it's an extraordinary piece of work.

• 2:48:15Joe Rogan?

  I think they're two different things. The Stephen King book is great.

• 2:48:18Speaker 00

  I love the Stephen King.

• 2:48:18Joe Rogan?

  But the movie is so fucking good, man.

• 2:48:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:48:21Joe Rogan?

  And Jack Nicholson plays a guy that's kind of barely keeping it together until he gets to the house. Which I liked that version of the story. The Stephen King one is very different.

• 2:48:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:48:30Joe Rogan?

  The guy's not that fucked up. He becomes way more fucked up as the book, it's like, it's a gradual.

• 2:48:36Speaker 00

  He's an alcoholic in the, he's very much an alcoholic in the, in the book.

• 2:48:39Joe Rogan?

  But he's not that violent and crazy.

• 2:48:41Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:48:41Joe Rogan?

  Like, it takes a while to work him into that.

• 2:48:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so, yeah. No, I love, I, I love Kubrick. The thing about Kubrick that always confuses me though was, you know, the famous thing about him getting the two secretaries to write out all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy? Do you not know this?

• 2:48:56Joe Rogan?

  Did he really do that?

• 2:48:57Speaker 00

  He did this, yeah. That huge pile was written by two, I think, secretaries.

• 2:49:01Joe Rogan?

  So that huge pile was really all?

• 2:49:04Speaker 00

  Typed out by two women.

• 2:49:05Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:49:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I, I, I, the only-

• 2:49:07Joe Rogan?

  Why didn't he have a fucking copier?

• 2:49:09Speaker 00

  I know, but, but it's because he-

• 2:49:11Joe Rogan?

  Do it once, bro.

• 2:49:11Speaker 00

  Well, exactly, but then, then, because it, that's like verisimilitude, but then he, he shoots Vietnam on the London docks. It's like, wait, you wait these two women write out all work and no play, and then you're shooting Vietnam and, and, you know, in, in, in London.

• 2:49:26Joe Rogan?

  What movie was that? They did that?

• 2:49:27Speaker 00

  Full Metal Jacket.

• 2:49:28Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:49:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, he was scared of flying.

• 2:49:31Joe Rogan?

  Ah!

• 2:49:31Speaker 00

  He was scared of flying. He lived in the UK, and so he didn't want to fly, so, uh, that's why, that's why it was shot there.

• 2:49:37Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:49:38Speaker 00

  Isn't that crazy?

• 2:49:39Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:49:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, so, anyway.

• 2:49:43Joe Rogan?

  That dude, he's a fascinating character, man.

• 2:49:46Speaker 00

  Um, yeah, he was really, he was really interesting. It was interesting, it was quite sad, Malcolm McDowell felt a bit betrayed by him when he finished Clockwork Orange.

• 2:49:53Joe Rogan?

  Why?

• 2:49:54Speaker 00

  Because they were, they had a very intense relationship as actor and director, um, when they were working on it, and as soon as the film was over, Kubrick just lost interest, moved on. And, and, and, you know, Malcolm McDowell was this young actor.

• 2:50:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he wanted to be his friend?

• 2:50:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:50:10Joe Rogan?

  Uh, Margaret Warr- okay.

• 2:50:12Speaker 00

  Oh, it was one woman!

• 2:50:13Joe Rogan?

  Margaret Warrington to type it on each one of the five hundred odd sheets in the stack. What's more, he also had Warrington type up an equivalent number of manuscript pages in four languages, French, German, Italian, Spanish, for foreign releases of the film. For these, he used idiomatic phrases with vaguely similar meanings. Wow.

• 2:50:34Speaker 00

  A, a, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

• 2:50:36Joe Rogan?

  That was one of them. Don't put off to, until tomorrow, what you can do today. The early bird gets the worm.

• 2:50:43Speaker 00

  Even if you rise early, dawn will not come any sooner.

• 2:50:46Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:50:46Speaker 00

  See, there's things I don't like about Kubrick. I don't like that he did that to that woman.

• 2:50:50Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts. Why'd you do that to that lady?

• 2:50:51Speaker 00

  It's a terrible waste of her time.

• 2:50:53Joe Rogan?

  It's a monster.

• 2:50:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:50:55Joe Rogan?

  He had a grudge against her, for sure.

• 2:50:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:50:57Joe Rogan?

  That's a nutty thing. But he was a nutty dude, man. It's like all these weird symbolism that he'd put in his films and, like, all the different things in The Shining that lead people to believe it's some sort of a, an expose on the moon landing conspiracy.

• 2:51:11Speaker 00

  Oh, really? I didn't know that one.

• 2:51:12Joe Rogan?

  There's so many wild things, because people knew that he had, like, symbolism in his films that was hidden, and he was, everything was very clever and layered. There was so much stuff to it.

• 2:51:23Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 2:51:24Joe Rogan?

  You know? I can't believe Stephen King didn't like The Shining, though. To me, it's like, God, it's so great as a film. I get it. It's not what you wrote down.

• 2:51:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:51:33Joe Rogan?

  But damn, that's good.

• 2:51:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, it is a great adaptation, I would say.

• 2:51:37Joe Rogan?

  It's so good. It's such a good movie.

• 2:51:39Speaker 00

  But I just.

• 2:51:40Joe Rogan?

  You just can't think of the first, where it came from. You know, you can't think of the first story. You gotta think of it as a whole. It as a whole is amazing.

• 2:51:47Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. I always felt, you know, when, when people adapt things, if something doesn't work in the book, I hate it when they bring it over to the film. I mean, you know, people will, again, disagree with me, but I hated the ending of No Country for Old Men.

• 2:52:00Joe Rogan?

  Did you really?

• 2:52:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, because you got a whole film that sets up the, the final battle between what's his name, that main actor, who's great. I love him in everything.

• 2:52:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:09Speaker 00

  Um, and, uh, Banderas or whoever did that. It wasn't Banderas. Who was it? The guy who did the, the crazy guy, right? The guy with the big.

• 2:52:17Joe Rogan?

  Yes, Javier.

• 2:52:19Speaker 00

  Javier.

• 2:52:21Joe Rogan?

  How do you say his last name, Jamie?

• 2:52:22Speaker 00

  Javier Bardem, that's him.

• 2:52:24Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:52:24Speaker 00

  The whole film's been set up as a showdown between these two guys.

• 2:52:27Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:52:28Speaker 00

  And it happens off screen. It doesn't even happen off screen. He's killed by some random people. And I get that he's saying violence is, is, uh, unexpected. You can't defend yourself against it. It's not something that has a neat story ending. But I still didn't, I was still, I wanna see that showdown, you know? But I know I'm missing the point. I know I'm missing.

• 2:52:48Joe Rogan?

  I know what you're saying, and I agree, and yet I still love the movie.

• 2:52:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, up until then.

• 2:52:53Joe Rogan?

  Cause it was so good. I gave it a pass.

• 2:52:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:52:56Joe Rogan?

  On the weirdness of the ending.

• 2:52:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get you.

• 2:52:58Joe Rogan?

  Cause it was so good.

• 2:52:59Speaker 00

  It's amazing up until that point, I think, you know?

• 2:53:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:53:02Speaker 00

  I mean, the, the book is actually great as well. The book is written just like that. It's just, someone's asked the Coen brothers, how do you adapt a film? And, uh, I think Joel's, Joel said Ethan holds the book open and I, I'm at the typewriter. And it's basically, they just write it out again, you know?

• 2:53:19Joe Rogan?

  Adapting a film, I mean, what they've done, when you look at the course of their career, so much of their stuff was so absurd, but yet dead on.

• 2:53:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:53:30Joe Rogan?

  Believable, like ridiculous, but still, I'm with this, I believe it.

• 2:53:35Speaker 00

  And also the strange thing they did in later films where it's almost like they're they're they're creating a fake Hollywood where Clark Gable plays chain gang members and and Bogart is plays a barber, you know, they they almost created a a sort of shadow Hollywood, which I really loved, you know, the Hudsucker proxy, which is basically a Preston Sturges film with all the fast talking dames and all this sort of stuff, you know, or Frank Capra, no, not really Frank Capra, but Sturges and Billy Water and people like that. And it's just great. They just kind of, they love movies. I've always, I've always, I've always adored that.

• 2:54:12Joe Rogan?

  There's always going to be a place for that, right? There's always going to be a place, no matter what happens with AI, I'm gonna want to know that some people made something.

• 2:54:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, point of view, point of view. That's the thing. That's the thing AI can't give you.

• 2:54:25Joe Rogan?

  There's gonna be a bunch of people lying too, saying that they didn't write it with AI and then they definitely did. There's gonna be a lot of scandals. There's gonna be a lot of scandals.

• 2:54:33Speaker 00

  Well, now they can find it out. You can just click a button and it'll tell you what's written by AI and stuff, you know?

• 2:54:38Joe Rogan?

  But that's only if you're lazy. So that's if you're lazy, if you copy and paste.

• 2:54:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, you could put a bit of thought into it.

• 2:54:44Joe Rogan?

  But if you just copy it, I bet it's not gonna really know.

• 2:54:48Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:54:48Joe Rogan?

  It'll suspect you. Like, how'd you learn how to write this good, you motherfucker?

• 2:54:52Speaker 00

  I think that's what everybody's thinking now every time they read some. I have noticed that that that good writers are becoming better. And brilliant writers are becoming incredible.

• 2:55:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a challenge. There's a weirdness that's gonna happen, this uncanny valley of not gonna be able, you're not gonna be able to tell in writing as well as in visual stuff, but I think they're gonna pass that real quick.

• 2:55:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:55:12Joe Rogan?

  I think it's not just gonna be that, there's gonna be another problem. And the other problem is immersive experiences. I think the moment they create a human neural interface, immersive experiences are gonna be so difficult to to walk away from. If you think that you're addicted to your phone now, wait until you wear it on your head and it makes you orgasm.

• 2:55:34Joe Rogan?

  For real, like for real, like that's coming. All this stuff is coming. You're going to be able to exist in a world that doesn't, that's not real. And once they figure out how to get images in your mind that you can see. And they've already started doing stuff like this. This is very experimental in terms of shapes and showing people different things. So allowing people to see things that aren't there. So this is Pong, right? Do, do, do, do, do, do. And now we have the Unreal Engine, which is insane, where you have video games that look like real life, they look like a movie. This is what's going to happen with us and it's going to be immersive.

• 2:56:13Speaker 00

  Someone said, someone said an interesting thing. Can you imagine being a schizophrenic in these years?

• 2:56:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, good point.

• 2:56:19Speaker 00

  You know, because they used to say, they used to say, you know, oh, there's microbes in my beard that are transmitting things to the government, you know? You might be right.

• 2:56:31Joe Rogan?

  Might be right, yeah. There's a chip in my head and Elon Musk is talking to me, well.

• 2:56:35Speaker 00

  Actually, to bring it back to my.

• 2:56:36Joe Rogan?

  Couple people, maybe?

• 2:56:38Speaker 00

  To bring it back to my, my talking, my hobby horse. I saw, there's a brilliant woman who would be, who you should definitely at least follow on Twitter. Her name is Exulansic.

• 2:56:50Joe Rogan?

  How do you spell that?

• 2:56:51Speaker 00

  E X U L A N S I C. And her name on Twitter, I think, is TTExulansic. And she, all she does is she plays videos by trans men who are talking about the medical complications. And that's all they do and none of them seem to have any insight into the fact that they didn't actually have to do any of this, that they didn't have to get these procedures, that they could be, and all they do is they catalog the, the amount of time, they have to keep going back into the hospital to get something fixed because there's no such thing as a successful trans surgery, you know? There's people who are happy with it, but that reminds me of something else. I wanted to say one thing about Jazz Jennings.

• 2:57:35Speaker 00

  But anyway, these girls, they just talk about their endless medical problems. They don't seem to realize it's because of their trans identity, you know? And there's one girl who appeared on, and my God, this really blew me away.

• 2:57:49Speaker 00

  She, you know, she has the facial hair that comes with being a trans man and stuff. And she, she's talking, it's actually one of the more recent ones. You can actually show it, it's quite, it's shortish. But, um, but it's, she's saying that one of the things that I didn't realize I'd be getting is a bug paranoia. Because she has all this facial hair growing in different parts of her body that she didn't have before. And she's feeling it itch and tickle at different, in, in a way that she's not used to. She's become convinced that there's a bug on her, you know? And you know the way most, you know, a lot of women are scared of bugs. Can you imagine that? Now you're in, you've put yourself into a situation where you're gonna have this bug feeling for the rest of your life. Do you know what I mean? It's-

• 2:58:32Joe Rogan?

  That's the least of your problems, you can just shave your beard.

• 2:58:34Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, but like, you know-

• 2:58:36Joe Rogan?

  Problem is the beard is part of the identity, right?

• 2:58:37Speaker 00

  These detransition, yeah, detransitioners, I mean, you know, there's a lovely woman I know, and a Scottish woman, who detransitioned, you know, and she has to shave every day, you know? She's just got a delicate woman's face. She has to shave every day, you know? And, and, and I've heard another, another, there was another trans identified person who desisted, but they look like a balding, middle aged man, you know? In their twenties, right? But they've got rapid balding, whatever.

• 2:59:07Joe Rogan?

  From taking testosterone?

• 2:59:08Speaker 00

  From taking testosterone, yeah, you know? And, uh, oh damn, I forgot what it was, my point was gonna be about that, sorry. Sometimes there's so much stuff to say-

• 2:59:17Joe Rogan?

  They detransitioned?

• 2:59:19Speaker 00

  They detransition, oh yeah, I know what it was. And she said that she, she, one thing she misses and she, she, she didn't realize she was saying goodbye to it, was the easy company of women. Because women are guarded in her presence and different because she looks like a man. So she's lost that connection to women, you know? There's so many awful things to this movement. I, I could talk for another five hours and never get-

• 2:59:43Joe Rogan?

  Do you feel like it's consuming your life?

• 2:59:45Speaker 00

  Well, it had to in a way because I wasn't allowed to do anything else. I, I tried to do comedy, they wouldn't let me. I tried to, um, I had this musical that would have, would have been my pension, as I say. Um, they wouldn't let me do it.

• 2:59:58Joe Rogan?

  What'd you say, you tried to do comedy, tried to do stand up?

• 3:00:00Speaker 00

  Oh no, I did stand up, that was just for fun. I did stand up for a while.

• 3:00:04Joe Rogan?

  What, what'd you mean, you mean comedy sitcoms?

• 3:00:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:00:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, your, your original work.

• 3:00:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'd basically been, been blacklisted, you know? So, you know?

• 3:00:14Joe Rogan?

  Because you'd be a great comic. You'd be fun.

• 3:00:16Speaker 00

  Oh, thank you.

• 3:00:17Joe Rogan?

  I think you'd be great at it.

• 3:00:18Speaker 00

  I did a bit of stand-up and I enjoyed it, but...

• 3:00:21Joe Rogan?

  You've got the mind for it, clearly.

• 3:00:22Speaker 00

  I'm fifty-seven, you know.

• 3:00:23Joe Rogan?

  I get it. So am I.

• 3:00:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, but you have had a lot of... You've come up through the clubs and you've done your proper...

• 3:00:29Joe Rogan?

  It's fun.

• 3:00:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:00:30Joe Rogan?

  It's fun.

• 3:00:31Speaker 00

  Maybe I'll keep doing it.

• 3:00:32Joe Rogan?

  You'd figure it out easy.

• 3:00:33Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 3:00:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you'd get the hang of it.

• 3:00:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:00:35Joe Rogan?

  You'd get it.

• 3:00:36Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, I do... I did enjoy it. It was nice. The thing I don't... I find it hard to get used to is saying the same thing as if I've just thought of it.

• 3:00:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:00:45Speaker 00

  I like to...

• 3:00:46Joe Rogan?

  You have to think about it. It's a mindset.

• 3:00:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:00:49Joe Rogan?

  So what you have to do is, every time I think about... Every time I'm talking about a thing, I just only think about that thing.

• 3:00:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:00:56Joe Rogan?

  I don't think, "Oh my, I'm saying this again the exact same way."

• 3:01:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:01:00Joe Rogan?

  I know how to say it, but what I'm thinking about is that thing. Like genuinely thinking about that thing.

• 3:01:06Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 3:01:07Joe Rogan?

  So they know you're actually locked in. People can tell.

• 3:01:10Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 3:01:11Joe Rogan?

  They can tell that you're saying the words but thinking about something else.

• 3:01:14Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 3:01:14Joe Rogan?

  They can tell.

• 3:01:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:01:15Joe Rogan?

  There's a weird thing that's going on with comedy that's unaddressed. You can't measure it. Can't put it on a scale. But there's a sense that people have that's not being addressed, whatever it is. I don't think it's entirely visual. I think there's a feeling.

• 3:01:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:01:30Joe Rogan?

  There's a vibe you get. So you know when someone's not bullshitting.

• 3:01:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:01:33Joe Rogan?

  That's why comedy works. And you miss that vibe on television, unfortunately. It's weird. Like, watching television stand-up comedy is like sixty percent of the actual show, maybe seventy percent.

• 3:01:43Speaker 00

  Right.

• 3:01:43Joe Rogan?

  Still great. You know, when you get a chance to see someone like Dave Attell, who maybe don't get a chance to see in the clubs.

• 3:01:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:01:50Joe Rogan?

  You haven't been able to see him live.

• 3:01:51Speaker 00

  Or Chappelle.

• 3:01:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, or any of these guys. It's great. But, trust me, see him live and you'll be blown away. It's like... It's like taking water out of your ears and now you can hear music.

• 3:02:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:02:03Joe Rogan?

  You get the whole thing. You get this thing that's going on where he's hypnotizing everybody.

• 3:02:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. I was lucky enough to see Chappelle a few times in London, you know, and that was a treat.

• 3:02:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's great too, because you're seeing him in London too. You're seeing him in an arena. So you're seeing him like with that polished...

• 3:02:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:02:19Joe Rogan?

  Locked-down set.

• 3:02:21Speaker 00

  I saw him both ways. I saw him in a small, secret club as well. Well, because he was rehearsing a Saturday Night Live.

• 3:02:26Joe Rogan?

  Ah, nice.

• 3:02:27Speaker 00

  Really special.

• 3:02:28Joe Rogan?

  He's the best. Such a good dude, too.

• 3:02:30Speaker 00

  He did something I have not seen him do since, which is one of the funniest things I've ever seen, which was, uh, uh, uh, who's the Johnny B. Good guitarist, Chuck Berry? Chuck Berry sex tape.

• 3:02:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:02:46Speaker 00

  That is so funny. When he, when he says, I didn't even know Chuck Berry was in it until he feared.

• 3:02:53Speaker 00

  Oh, God, that was funny. He's, he's like, I love, I love, I love him. And he's been great throughout as well because he's been, he's been someone who says the same stuff in a very funny way and, and, and expresses like, you know, he was.

• 3:03:07Joe Rogan?

  He's a very thoughtful person.

• 3:03:08Speaker 00

  He's a very thoughtful person. And he said that great thing where he said, um, I know trans rights activists make up words to win arguments. And that's what it is, you know, you call, you call, if you start calling real women cis women.

• 3:03:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:03:21Speaker 00

  Then it's an easy way to disparage them and to put them off. You know what I mean? So, yeah, anyway.

• 3:03:27Joe Rogan?

  Is there a way to live a normal life for you right now? I mean, you're, you're on this battlefield. This constant, consistent battlefield. I mean, you must, I'm, I'm gonna ask before if you felt like it consumed you, but I mean, is there a way to?

• 3:03:41Speaker 00

  Oh, no. Well, I'm over here.

• 3:03:42Joe Rogan?

  Transition with, for lack of a better terms, to a healthy life.

• 3:03:45Speaker 00

  I'm currently transitioning, yeah. No, I, I, Rob Schneider, uh, who has just shown me incredible kindness and brought me over to, uh, work on a few projects for him.

• 3:03:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's great.

• 3:03:57Speaker 00

  Something I always wanted to do anyway. I've always enjoyed, uh, uh, film rewrites and stuff like that, you know? So, yeah, so that's gonna, and that's helped me out because it's getting me, my visa's three years. And my aim is to become so useful to the Americans that they won't let me go, you know?

• 3:04:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, hopefully this podcast will help.

• 3:04:13Speaker 00

  Hopefully, hopefully.

• 3:04:14Joe Rogan?

  Hopefully people realize how fucking nutty it is over there. And this is what I was scared of over here when tech censorship was in full bloom.

• 3:04:22Speaker 00

  When what, sorry?

• 3:04:23Joe Rogan?

  Tech censorship.

• 3:04:24Speaker 00

  Right.

• 3:04:25Joe Rogan?

  Before Elon Musk bought Twitter, when people like Meghan Murphy were banned for, for life.

• 3:04:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:04:31Joe Rogan?

  For saying a man can never be a woman.

• 3:04:33Speaker 00

  I was banned for the same thing. She, she, I said, men aren't women, though, and she was banned for saying, men aren't women.

• 3:04:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, nuts.

• 3:04:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:04:39Joe Rogan?

  Men aren't women, though.

• 3:04:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:04:40Joe Rogan?

  Banned for life.

• 3:04:41Speaker 00

  And because, and because Twitter banned me, that was again reported in The Guardian, as if I'd been harassing people.

• 3:04:47Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 3:04:47Speaker 00

  Twitter actually said he was misusing the platform.

• 3:04:51Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 3:04:51Speaker 00

  And they never explained what that meant.

• 3:04:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, misusing, yeah.

• 3:04:55Speaker 00

  So, misusing, but everyone just thinks, oh, he was abusing people.

• 3:04:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, um, it's insidious and it was all encompassing. There was no social media that was free of it. And the only places that were free of it, for me, feels like they got attacked. And this is what I mean by that. Like, if you went over to any of those alternative places, like Gab or any of these.

• 3:05:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:05:20Joe Rogan?

  They were flooded with racism and xenophobia and homophobia and flooded in a way where I don't necessarily believe it's all organic.

• 3:05:33Speaker 00

  Right.

• 3:05:34Joe Rogan?

  I think it's a great way to sabotage a platform that might attract, like, if you wanted to have a platform. If you wanted, if you were running a platform and your platform is incredibly left-wing, like, fully censoring pertinent data that would help Trump or help the right-wing people, if you were running that platform and also a new platform came about and a bunch of people were talking about jumping ship, how hard would it be to just sabotage that platform?

• 3:06:01Speaker 00

  I guess.

• 3:06:02Joe Rogan?

  And just start, just the most horrible racist things, you say it over and over and over again, flood it. Flood it with hate, flood it with terrible messages, flood it with disinformation and bad, bad faith arguments.

• 3:06:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:06:17Joe Rogan?

  And, and, and just outright lies.

• 3:06:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:06:20Joe Rogan?

  You can do whatever you want. If you have a good computer, you have a good computer crew and that knows how to code things. You could use AI to push a specific narrative. They've already done it. Like, people have done the. They can crowdsource an attack on someone that's entirely bot-created.

• 3:06:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:06:37Joe Rogan?

  Why wouldn't you do that where there's a new social media platform? So no social media platform got to exist that was free until Elon bought Twitter. Because by that move, which a lot of people don't appreciate for how spectacular the result was. What a big difference it made.

• 3:06:54Speaker 00

  Oh, it changed my life.

• 3:06:55Joe Rogan?

  Because everyone was addicted to Twitter already. Even the people that hated the idea that he was doing this. And they were still gonna use it. They're addicted. They're locked in, so it's genius, really. And then you let it go buckwild.

• 3:07:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:07:10Joe Rogan?

  And you watch people just freak the fuck out.

• 3:07:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, I notice a few things on Twitter I don't like. I notice a little bit of racism and all the usual.

• 3:07:22Joe Rogan?

  You notice a lot of that. There's a lot of that. I don't know how much of it's organic, though.

• 3:07:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:07:26Joe Rogan?

  Some of it for sure is.

• 3:07:28Speaker 00

  Right, right, I know what you're saying.

• 3:07:29Joe Rogan?

  But I think there's a lot of fake arguments that are designed to keep people at each other's throats and distract from the greater issues that we all have to deal with.

• 3:07:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:07:37Joe Rogan?

  I think that's a real strategy that's being used not just by people in the United States, but by people outside the United States on the United States.

• 3:07:46Speaker 00

  But the funny thing about it is you almost don't need to sabotage something to that extent. Because if you were to destroy a country's ability to know right from wrong, truth from lies.

• 3:08:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:08:00Speaker 00

  All these things. What better way would there be of doing it than the trans movement? Where you can't even accept the evidence of your own eyes and say, that's a man or that's a woman. Like, it is a destabilizing... It's destabilizing Western society, you know? And I think it will. I think that type of thing could easily be weaponized against us, you know?

• 3:08:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think there's a certain value in destabilizing a certain amount of society. You wanna keep people weak. You know, you wanna make it so that a revolution is very difficult to obtain.

• 3:08:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know James Lindsay's theory about... I find that very compelling theory he said about what happened with Marxism and so on in the last 20, 30 years? Is that they gave up trying to persuade working-class people to have a revolution. Because their lives were too good under capitalism, right? No one wanted to be a revolutioner. And so what happened, he thinks, was that...

• 3:09:02Speaker 00

  All these Marxists, all these left wingers who really believed in the in the left wing project, or the communist project, whatever you want to call it, socialist project. They all started going into teaching and cultural places because they wanted to change of culture that way. And it's been incredibly successful, if that is true, you know?

• 3:09:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, it makes sense.

• 3:09:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:09:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is Yuri Bezmenov talked about that in the 1980s.

• 3:09:29Speaker 00

  Right.

• 3:09:29Joe Rogan?

  He talked about using that on the American people.

• 3:09:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:09:33Joe Rogan?

  The work had already been done. He was saying in the 1980s.

• 3:09:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that's Lindsay's, that's what Lindsay says.

• 3:09:39Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of people that think that. There's a lot of people that have went through that university system and then came out on the other side and tried to be independent thinkers and realized how easy they get attacked.

• 3:09:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:09:47Joe Rogan?

  And they're just like, there's something going on here. This is not logical.

• 3:09:50Speaker 00

  I'm worried about my, my kids are going into university and half me wants to just protect them from it because, you know, like I know so many stories of people who went to university and came back with a trans identity, you know? So, but, you know.

• 3:10:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just easy to get indoctrinated in any kind of a group.

• 3:10:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:10:07Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's when you're a young person, you can get sucked in.

• 3:10:10Speaker 00

  Well, one of the, one of the big problems, I think, is that it feels to me, I don't know if it feels like this to you, but, you know, the 50s, they call it the invention of the teenager, right? 60s, 50s, 60s. So, we had 50s, 60s, then the 70s, people started thinking of rock music as art and so on. And, and it continued like that for a while and there was always a very, very healthy youth culture, right? Bowie is a good example, okay? All his fans would go out dressed like, you know, in, in, in gendered, unconforming ways, you know? Now there's no figures like Bowie, you know? What we have instead are, is a political ideology, instead of the old days where it

• 3:10:50Speaker 00

  used to be music, culture, where you could take your personality and, and find your tribe and throw yourself into a culture, right? That doesn't seem to exist to the same extent that it did for kids. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem, there doesn't seem to be, like, who, who, who's, I, I believe recently, there was, it was the first time in forever that, or I think the first time since there were charts, maybe, that there was no band in the charts, right? No actual musical band. It was all... It was all individuals, you know. So, you know, the whole thing about bands, about being in a gang, all that cool stuff. It's gone.

• 3:11:28Joe Rogan?

  Do you think that's a side effect of social media?

• 3:11:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, definitely, because why, you know.

• 3:11:34Joe Rogan?

  Because you don't have to find your tribe in like a physical forum where you all get together and enjoy something together. You know, like Insane Clown Posse. They all go and they have.

• 3:11:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:11:44Joe Rogan?

  They're crazy. What is that called again? They get together?

• 3:11:48Speaker 04

  Gathering of the Juggalos.

• 3:11:49Joe Rogan?

  The Juggalos. Gathering of the Juggalos. That's it. Yeah. They go crazy. They get together. They like, they call it family. Like, they feel like they're around other misfits and they feel great.

• 3:11:58Speaker 00

  And a lot, you know, one thing I definitely want to make clear is when I'm talking about trans activists being evil and so on, I'm really not, I'm not talking about all of them. You know, there's a lot of good people who are mixed up with this. And they see their trans friend and they, their trans friend is lovely and they want to protect them and think that, you know, people like me are hateful and will never accept them as human beings and so on. That's not the case at all. It's, it's, it's the ideology. It's the ideology. It's a lot of trans activists. But as for trans people themselves, there's a whole range of different people with different opinions. Yeah, yeah, you know.

• 3:12:32Joe Rogan?

  In all walks of life.

• 3:12:34Speaker 00

  But the problem with it as a movement is they won't call out the bad actors, you know. And they have, if they're, if they're going to, basically, my friend Artie Morty, who is a gay guy, Canadian gay guy, you know, he says the only reason that gay rights got accepted is because when NAMBLA, right? The North American Man Boy Love Association and P I E in the UK, the Pedophile Information Exchange, the similar groups, but like, I always thought Pedophile Information Exchange, they possibly shouldn't have called themselves the Pedophile Information Exchange.

• 3:13:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, Man Boy Love Association isn't any better.

• 3:13:10Speaker 00

  Bit of a giveaway, you know.

• 3:13:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:13:12Speaker 00

  But anyway, these two organizations started to argue that pedophiles were, should be a protected class, just like, you know, gay people. And. Gay people ejected them very loudly, very clearly and said, "We don't have anything to do with that," you know. Unfortunately, the same thing isn't happening at the moment. There has to be a move from-

• 3:13:35Joe Rogan?

  But that all happened before the internet.

• 3:13:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:13:38Joe Rogan?

  I think that's what it is.

• 3:13:39Speaker 00

  Sorry, I'm turning apart your set.

• 3:13:40Joe Rogan?

  No, I think that's what it is, man. I think it's just the fear of being attacked is so strong for people that they just never man up.

• 3:13:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:13:48Joe Rogan?

  For lack of a better term.

• 3:13:49Speaker 00

  But, but, but there is also a huge reluctance to, like, one of the things, one of the reasons it's ironic that I get called toxic is, one of the very first things I did in this fight was I signed a letter to Stonewall, the big gay organization in the UK, asking them, "Could they recognize that there's a plurality of beliefs in this issue and could we all work together to reduce the toxicity?" Right? So I signed this letter along with a bunch of other people. They said, "No." Within the day, they said, "No," and cast us all as bigots again, you know? So it's like, there's a problem with legacy gay organizations, they have to be rid of all these people who can't answer biological questions, you know?

• 3:14:33Speaker 00

  They have to be, because they're endangering, they're endangering the whole cause of gay rights. Like, however many years, what is it now? Sixty, sixty-eight, so thirty, fifty, over maybe sixty years of gay rights, okay? And they're in danger of throwing it all away because of their sudden obsession about a bunch of straight people, you know? Because most trans, trans identified men are straight, you know?

• 3:14:58Joe Rogan?

  It's bananas.

• 3:14:59Speaker 00

  All these trans men, these young girls going on to gay ops, they're straight, they're straight women, you know? It is bananas.

• 3:15:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, listen, Graham, I'm sorry all this happened to you, but I'm glad that we could have a, a place where you could tell your story, because your story is, it's very eye-opening. And this is not what we'd want from a polite, respectable, and even a progressive society.

• 3:15:24Joe Rogan?

  Especially from a guy like you.

• 3:15:26Speaker 00

  Well, thank you. I really appreciate it.

• 3:15:28Joe Rogan?

  My pleasure. I'm glad we got to do this. Let's do it again in the future when you've won your court case.

• 3:15:32Speaker 00

  I forgot to bring my book.

• 3:15:33Joe Rogan?

  I've got your book at home. It's right by my bed. I just started it.

• 3:15:36Speaker 00

  Okay, okay.

• 3:15:37Joe Rogan?

  I appreciate you very much, man. Tough Crowd.

• 3:15:40Speaker 00

  Tough Crowd, thank you.

• 3:15:41Joe Rogan?

  You can get it on Amazon. You can get the Kindle version of it. You can get the version of it that has audio, Audible.

• 3:15:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, there it is. Oh, thank you.

• 3:15:50Joe Rogan?

  Must-read book.

• 3:15:51Speaker 00

  I'm also on Twitter at Glinner. I'd like to get back some of my 400,000 followers that I left.

• 3:15:57Joe Rogan?

  How do you spell? What is it? Oh, Glinner? G-L-I-N-N-E-R? That's your Twitter?

• 3:16:02Speaker 00

  That's my Twitter name as well, yeah.

• 3:16:04Joe Rogan?

  Go for it. All right. Thanks, brother. I appreciate you.

• 3:16:05Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 3:16:06Joe Rogan?

  All right. Bye, everybody.

• 3:16:07Speaker 00

  Bye-bye.