EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)

In today's episode, we examine the disturbing crimes of Andrea Yates, one of the most infamous mothers in American history. In 2001, a brutal crime rocked a suburb of Houston, Texas. A mother had snapped and drowned 5 of her children in the bathtub of her home. But her backstory and the lead up to the crime runs deeper than one could ever have possibly imagined. - Listen to our new show, "THE CONSPIRACY FILES"!: -Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/5IY9nWD2MYDzlSYP48nRPl -Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-conspiracy-files/id1752719844 -Amazon/Audible - https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/ab1ade99-740c-46ae-8028-b2cf41eabf58/the-conspiracy-files -Pandora - https://www.pandora.com/podcast/the-conspiracy-files/PC:1001089101 -iHeart - https://iheart.com/podcast/186907423/ -PocketCast - https://pca.st/dpdyrcca -CastBox - https://castbox.fm/channel/id6193084?country=us - Stay Connected: Join the Murder in America fam in our free Facebook Community for a behind-the-scenes look, more insights and current events in the true crime world: https://www.facebook.com/groups/4365229996855701 If you want even more Murder in America bonus content, including ad-free episodes, come join us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderinamerica Instagram: http://instagram.com/murderinamerica/ Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/people/Murder-in-America-Podcast/100086268848682/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/MurderInAmerica TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@theparanormalfiles and https://www.tiktok.com/@courtneybrowen Feeling spooky? Follow Colin as he travels state to state (and even country to country!) investigating claims of extreme paranormal activity and visiting famous haunted locations on The Paranormal Files Official Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheParanormalFilesOfficialChannel - (c) BLOOD IN THE SINK PRODUCTIONS 2025 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:29Colin Brown?

  Warning: The following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.

• 1:40Courtney Brown?

  Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.

• 1:47Colin Brown?

  This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.

• 1:51Courtney Brown?

  In last week's episode, we talked about the life of Andrea Yates, a smart and religious woman who was living with her husband Rusty and five children in Houston, Texas in the early 2000s. Andrea's number one role in her life was being a wife and mother. She had given up her career as a nurse so she could take on this role full-time. But sadly, with the birth of each of her children, her postpartum depression was getting worse and worse. Over the years, her doctors had recommended that she stop having children altogether. But in her and Rusty's mind, this was God's will for them.

• 2:31Courtney Brown?

  So by 2001, they had five kids together: Mary, John, Luke, Paul, and Noah. But in the summer of 2001, unbeknownst to everyone, Andrea Yates was on the verge of a mental breakdown. One so severe, it would shock the nation. The warning signs had all been there, but no one knew what she was truly capable of. And soon enough, she would finally listen to those voices in her head, voices telling her to drown all five of her young children. So this is part two of the Andrea Yates story. I'm Courtney Brown.

• 3:10Colin Brown?

  And I'm Colin Brown.

• 3:11Courtney Brown?

  And you're listening to Murder in America.

• 4:20Colin Brown?

  In part one of this story, we left off with Andrea getting discharged from the psych ward once again. Over the past couple of years, she had been admitted on numerous occasions after multiple suicide attempts and severe hallucinations where she was hearing voices telling her to harm people. But like all the times before, Andrea would eventually get better. She'd be discharged from the hospital and promised to take her medication, but she never followed through on those promises. Andrea didn't like the way this medication made her feel, so she would just stop taking it. And it would only be a matter of time until she started having psychotic symptoms once again. Now, in the spring of 2001, Andrea's father would die from a long battle of Alzheimer's. In addition to that, she had also just given birth to her only daughter, Mary.

• 5:05Colin Brown?

  So on top of losing her father, she was also experiencing another horrific bout of postpartum depression.

• 5:12Courtney Brown?

  After getting released from the psych ward this time, her doctors told both Andrea and Rusty that she was not to be left alone with her children. At the end of the day, they feared what she might do if left unsupervised. So when Rusty left for work, he would have his mother, Dora, come stay with her and the kids. But it's around this time when Andrea started displaying some concerning behavior while her mother-in-law was staying with them. Andrea would walk over to the bathtub in their house and fill it up with water. When they asked her why she filled it up... She couldn't give them an answer. She simply said, quote, "Just in case I need it."

• 5:53Courtney Brown?

  It's also around this time when Andrea began to withdraw. She stopped eating, drinking, sleeping, and talking altogether. So once again, Rusty knew it was time to take her back to the hospital.

• 6:07Colin Brown?

  On May 14th, 2001, Rusty took Andrea back to Dr. Said's office because she had once again slipped into a catatonic state. Rusty told the doctor that the antipsychotic medication, risperdal, wasn't working, and he suggested that she be put back on Haldol, which had worked on Andrea in the past. He also told the doctor about how Andrea randomly filled up the bathtub several times that week. Dr. Said once again proposed electroshock therapy, but Rusty was completely against it. Interestingly, postpartum psychosis is often treated with a mix of medications and electroshock therapy. In fact, according to the Mayo Clinic, the mild electrical currents that are passed through a person's brain changes the brain activity that's responsible for symptoms of psychosis and depression.

• 6:52Colin Brown?

  Of course, there's a negative stigma attached to ECT, and many people still believe that it's a barbaric treatment. When it originally came out, they didn't use anesthesia, and the amount of electrical shock they were using was intense. But today, patients are usually given a muscle relaxer, put under general anesthesia, and a mild electrical current is used. And many doctors swear by it. But for whatever reason, Rusty wasn't sold. And that day at 6:00 PM, noticing her obvious mental decline, Andrea Yates was readmitted to Deveraux. Dr. Said wrote in his report, "Patient is sad, depressed, tearful, not talking." She was assigned to Unit 3 in a two-bedroom where she had a roommate.

• 7:33Colin Brown?

  The young woman who was in the room with Andrea would later say that she was clearly detached from reality. It seemed as if she was simply just a body, like her spirit was missing.

• 7:43Courtney Brown?

  For the next few days at the psychiatric hospital, Andrea Yates was like a zombie. She didn't utter a word. She just vacantly stared ahead, not speaking or making eye contact with anyone. She only got dressed when the nurses told her to. And other than standing in line to receive her medication for the day, she mostly sat in the corner by herself, staring off into space. She would only eat food when Rusty was around. Now during her evaluations, she did tell the doctors that she was not suicidal, but they never asked her about any homicidal ideations. During her group therapy at the hospital, Andrea never spoke a word.

• 8:26Courtney Brown?

  Many of the patients started referring to her as "the quiet one."

• 8:31Colin Brown?

  On May 11th, about a week into her stay, Andrea told Dr. Said that she was finally feeling better and that she was no longer having hallucinations. She said she wanted to go home and participate in outpatient therapy, like she had done all the times before. And surprisingly, three days later, on May 14th, they granted her request. Andrea was once again discharged under the condition that she continue outpatient therapy. On May 17th, Dr. Said wrote that Andrea was "improved" and that she had even started to slightly participate in her group therapy. During it, she opened up about her negative self-image and how it influenced her relationships. When asked what she enjoyed most being back at home, she replied, "being back with family."

• 9:14Colin Brown?

  Then, just eight days after being discharged from the hospital, she was also discharged from her outpatient therapy, the reasoning being "patient, not suicidal." But Andrea Yates was not cured. Throughout the past few years, she had been on this vicious cycle of being admitted to hospital, feeling better, getting discharged, attending group therapy, and then leaving once she felt like it no longer served her. But in every single instance, it was only a matter of time until Andrea Yates started to spiral again. She was sick, but no one seemed to have realized just how sick she truly was. And on June 4th, for whatever reason, her doctors took her off her antipsychotic meds. medication, alcohol. And soon after, Andrea started hearing the voices again.

• 9:58Colin Brown?

  One evening while watching cartoons with her children, the characters started speaking to her directly. They were calling her a bad mother. At one point, she even heard them speaking directly to her children, telling them, "Don't eat so much candy. Your mother's feeding you too much cereal." Here's Andrea herself describing this experience.

• 10:18Speaker 07

  They've been eating some candy one morning and we had the TV on cartoon and it just flashed a scene where the comic, the cartoon characters were talking to us. The cartoon characters? Saying, "Hey kids, stop eating so much candy." Okay, no. That flashed and then back to the program. All right. So you concluded that the TV had this special message for you and your family?

• 10:52Courtney Brown?

  Now during this time, Rusty's mom, Dora, was still staying at their home. But Andrea started growing paranoid of her mother-in-law. Andrea truly believed that Dora's eyeglasses were equipped with secret cameras and that the cameras were monitoring her throughout the day. One afternoon, Andrea saw a van outside on the street. And from there, she was convinced that someone had bugged their house and was watching her. About a week later, in early June, Andrea and Rusty sat down to watch a movie. The movie was Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? But while watching, one of the satanic characters looked right at Andrea

• 11:33Courtney Brown?

  and told her directly, quote, "You've eluded me long enough." She would later say that the same character told her she was, quote, "marked by Satan and evil." Now, of course, this didn't actually happen. But in Andrea's mind, it was as real as the air she breathed. Now she had been hearing these messages of going to hell and being evil for years. It was a big part of the Wernicke's teachings. But now with her mental decline, These messages felt more real than ever. It felt as if the walls were closing in on her. Andrea could feel the presence of Satan in her house, ready to pounce on her and the children and take them all to hell.

• 12:17Courtney Brown?

  She even heard growling and scratching noises in the walls, and she was convinced that it was the devil.

• 12:25Colin Brown?

  Her family could tell that Andrea wasn't doing well. On June 18th, 2001, Rusty even drove her back to Dr. Said's office and told him that Andrea wasn't getting better. In fact, she was getting much worse. Andrea had been off her antipsychotic medication for weeks now, but for some reason, they didn't put her back on. Strangely enough, they even reduced her antidepressant dosage from 450mg to 300mg. Now, why they would do this when she was clearly showing signs of a mental decline, we don't know. And apparently, Rusty even argued with the doctors about this, but they assured him that this was the appropriate dosage. And with that, he and Andrea left the hospital for the very last time.

• 13:08Colin Brown?

  From there, Rusty would pick up Andrea's prescription, and that night, he watched as she took her medication. But antidepressants weren't going to help Andrea. She needed severe psychiatric help, help that never came. Which brings us to June 20th, 2001.

• 13:26Courtney Brown?

  Through the month of June, Rusty, his mom Dora, and Andrea's mom Karen had taken turns watching the kids as Andrea was still not allowed to be left alone with them, per doctor's orders. On the morning of June 20th, 2001, Rusty had to work, so Andrea's mother was set to come over and watch the kids. However, she was running late that day. At around 8:50 a.m., Karen called Rusty to tell him that she would be there in about an hour, somewhere around 10 a.m. But Rusty didn't want to be late to work, so instead of waiting until his mother-in-law arrived, he decided to go to work anyway, leaving Andrea alone with their five children,

• 14:10Courtney Brown?

  a mistake he would live with for the rest of his life. As soon as Rusty walked out their front door, Andrea walked to their primary bathroom, closed the drain to the tub, and turned on the water. In her mind, Satan was going to get to her children, and in order to save them, they all needed to die. Andrea also knew that she only had about an hour and a half until her mother came over, so she needed to work quickly. As soon as the tub was filled, she walked over to her two-year-old son Luke and carried him into the bathroom. Her other five children stayed in the common area, having no idea what was about to happen. All of them were still in their pajamas.

• 14:54Courtney Brown?

  But once in the bathroom, Andrea carried her two-year-old over to the bathtub and forcibly held him under the water. For the first few seconds, Luke struggled, but after a while, she felt his body go limp. Disturbingly, Andrea continued to hold him under the water for several more minutes, just to make sure he was dead. And then from there, she pulled his lifeless body from the bathtub. Water dripped down Andrea's blue t-shirt as she cradled him in her arms and walked him over to her bedroom. She then placed Luke down on the bed, wet diaper and pajamas and all. Seconds later,

• 15:37Courtney Brown?

  the other children watched as she emerged from the bedroom, soaking wet. Andrea then grabbed three-year-old Paul, and in the same bathwater where she had just drowned Luke, she repeated the same process. But Paul was older than Luke. He was stronger. As his mother held him under the water, he fought back. In the process, he would split his lip on the bottom of the bathtub, but soon enough, he too would go unconscious. And just like with Luke, Andrea held him under for about five minutes, just to make sure he was dead. And when he was, she carried him over to the bedroom and laid his body down next to his brother. Next was five-year-old John.

• 16:20Courtney Brown?

  At five years old, you have a pretty good grasp of what What's going on around you, you know when something doesn't feel right. And when his mother picked him up and placed him into the tub with his pajamas still on, it's safe to say that John was scared. And before he knew it, Andrea was forcing his head under the water. John had bruises on his hips from where he was forcibly held down. And Andrea would hold him under the water for around seven minutes total, until she was sure he was dead. She then placed his body alongside his two brothers. Now, the next child was six-month-old Mary. She was wearing a one-piece purple Carter's outfit. When her mother submerged her in the water,

• 17:04Courtney Brown?

  Mary had the least amount of injuries compared to her brothers. Disturbingly, because she was so small, her drowning was much easier. But during this time, Andrea's oldest son Noah was out in the living room, and he began to wonder what was going on. That morning, he watched his mother bring each of his siblings into the bedroom, and they had yet to come back out. So being the curious seven-year-old he was, he walked into his parents' bathroom. In front of him, his mom was on her knees, forcibly holding his little sister under the water. Horrified, Noah asked what was going on.

• 17:45Courtney Brown?

  But then suddenly, he realized, maybe he saw that his little sister was dead. Or maybe he saw the look in his mom's eyes as she turned around. Whatever it was, Noah knew that he was in danger. And in an attempt to save his life, he ran. Andrea left her infant daughter submerged in the bathtub as she chased her oldest son through the house. And soon enough, she caught up to him. It's horrifying to think about what Noah said to his mom as she grabbed him by the arm and dragged him back into the bathroom. But from here, she picked him up, put him in the bathtub, where his little sister's lifeless body was still floating in the water.

• 18:28Courtney Brown?

  Now, as you can imagine, seven-year-old Noah put up a big fight. flailed under the weight of his mother's hands with bruises forming all over his forehead, thighs, hips, chest, and armpits as he fought for his life. At one point, Noah even managed to lift his head above the water where he yelled out, "I'm sorry mommy." Somehow Noah thought he did something wrong. He thought that maybe if he just apologized for whatever it was, his mother would stop. But Andrea wasn't deterred. She continued forcing his head under the water until Noah was dead.

• 19:09Courtney Brown?

  And surprisingly, for unknown reasons, Andrea left Noah floating face down in the bathtub that morning. She did however grab Mary, who was still floating there alongside her brother. Andrea cradled her daughter in her arms and brought her over to the bedroom where her three brothers laid in bed. She then placed Mary on five-year-old John's shoulder. She would later say that she did this because she believed that John would protect Mary in the afterlife, as he had always been a good brother. But from there, Andrea pulled the sheets over their bodies and made her way out into the living room.

• 19:48Courtney Brown?

  With all five of her children dead, Andrea picks up the phone and calls 911. Now, there is a 911 call out there, but it is incredibly hard to hear, so we are going to reenact it.

• 20:03Colin Brown?

  What's your name?

• 20:04Courtney Brown?

  Andrea Yates.

• 20:06Colin Brown?

  What's the problem?

• 20:07Courtney Brown?

  Um, I just need him to come.

• 20:09Colin Brown?

  Is your husband there?

• 20:10Courtney Brown?

  No.

• 20:11Colin Brown?

  Well, what's the problem?

• 20:12Courtney Brown?

  I need them to come.

• 20:14Colin Brown?

  I need to know why we're coming ma'am. Is he there standing next to you?

• 20:18Courtney Brown?

  Pardon me?

• 20:19Colin Brown?

  Are you having a disturbance? Are you ill or what?

• 20:21Courtney Brown?

  Yes, I am ill.

• 20:23Colin Brown?

  You need an ambulance?

• 20:24Courtney Brown?

  No, I need a police officer. Yeah, send an ambulance.

• 20:29Colin Brown?

  What's the problem? Is someone burglarizing your house? I mean, what is it? What kind of medical problem do you have ma'am?

• 20:34Courtney Brown?

  I just need a police officer.

• 20:36Colin Brown?

  You're at 942 Beach Comber, right?

• 20:39Courtney Brown?

  Yes.

• 20:40Colin Brown?

  Are you there alone?

• 20:41Courtney Brown?

  Yes.

• 20:42Colin Brown?

  Andrea Yates, is your husband there with you?

• 20:45Courtney Brown?

  No.

• 20:45Colin Brown?

  Well, why do you need the police ma'am?

• 20:48Courtney Brown?

  I just need them to be here.

• 20:49Colin Brown?

  For what?

• 20:50Courtney Brown?

  I just need them to come.

• 20:52Colin Brown?

  Are you sure that you're alone?

• 20:54Courtney Brown?

  No, my kids are here.

• 20:56Colin Brown?

  From here, Officer David Knapp responded to the scene. While he was on his way over, Andrea placed another call, this time to her husband Rusty. When Rusty picked up the phone at work, Andrea immediately said, "It's time. I finally did it." before asking him to come home. According to court documents, Andrea's comment to Rusty was in reference to the biblical prophecy in Revelations about Armageddon, the last battle between good and evil. Upon getting this phone call, Rusty knew it wasn't good, and he quickly left work. But before he could get home, Officer David Knapp pulled up to the scene at 9:55 a.m. After parking his squad car outside the house, he walked up the concrete path to a wrought-iron front gate, unlocked it, and proceeded to ring the doorbell.

• 21:42Colin Brown?

  Seconds later, the door opened, and standing in front of him was Andrea Yates. One of the first things he noticed was that she was soaking wet, but in a calm voice, she told him that she had just killed her children. From there, she led the officer down a darkened hallway to the primary bedroom. The carpet in the bedroom was saturated with water, but Andrea then points towards the bed. Officer Knapp could see the outline of four small bodies underneath a sheet, and when he pulls the covers back, he sees an image that he'll never be able to forget. There, lying alongside each other, were four small children, all under the age of five. They were all soaking wet, still in their pajamas. Each of their heads were resting on pillows, and their eyes were open, staring vacantly

• 22:27Colin Brown?

  up at the ceiling. Officer Knapp checked for signs of life, and although they were all still warm to the touch, the children were deceased. From there, Andrea led the officer into the bathroom, where he saw seven-year-old Noah still floating in the bathtub. It was the worst thing Officer Knapp had ever seen. He quickly called for backup, and soon enough, the house on Beach Comer Lane would be swarming with police.

• 22:51Courtney Brown?

  It's also around this time when Rusty Yates finally returned home and learned that all five of his children were dead. As he arrived, he saw his wife in the living room. She was calmly sitting on the love seat with her handcuffed wrists folded in her lap. Rusty screamed out to her, "How could you do this?" before dropping to his knees. Through tears, he pleaded with his wife for answers, but she had none. Andrea just calmly sat there, completely void of all emotions. Houston Police Officer Frank Stumbo looked at Andrea and asked if she understood what she had done. She replied, "Yes, I do."

• 23:34Courtney Brown?

  From there, Andrea Yates was arrested and taken to the Houston Police Station. At 1:00 PM, investigators took Andrea into an interrogation room and turned on the audio recorder. The first question they asked was, "Who killed your children?" Andrea replied, "I killed my children." The next question was, "Why did you kill your children?" Calmly, Andrea stated, "Because I'm a bad mother."

• 24:02Speaker 03

  After you drew the bathwater, what was your intent? What were you about to do?

• 24:09Speaker 07

  I killed my children.

• 24:10Speaker 03

  This morning? What time was it that you got out of bed this morning?

• 24:14Speaker 07

  1:10.

• 24:16Speaker 03

  Okay. And who in your household was awake at that time?

• 24:20Speaker 07

  My husband, Mary, and Luke and Paul.

• 24:30Colin Brown?

  Hey, everybody. Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review. Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program. So if you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here, share us on your Instagram story, shout us out on X, post one of our shows on your Facebook, and let the world, your friends, your family, know that you're listening to Murder in America. It seriously helps us so much, helps us grow the show. We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all. But let's get back to the story.

• 25:15Colin Brown?

  Throughout the entire 17-minute confession, Andrea was very honest with investigators. She didn't make excuses for herself, or try to make anyone feel bad for her. She was very matter-of-fact and emotionless. But back at home, a large crowd had gathered. There were friends and family members, neighbors, police, and of course, the media. And worried about those murders spread like wildfire. This would go on to be one of Houston's most infamous cases. As the news spread, the community of Clear Lake and the people who had been closest to Andrea were shocked that she had committed such a horrific act. Family members and friends were in disbelief. No one could have ever imagined that Andrea would have been capable of killing her children. To them, she had always been a loving and doting mother.

• 25:59Colin Brown?

  Here's Andrea's childhood friend, Marlene Mork, talking about hearing the news.

• 26:03Speaker 00

  I get a phone call from my sister, "Turn on the news, turn on the news." And I just couldn't believe it. I just cannot imagine that Andrea that I knew being capable of doing what she did to her own kids.

• 26:18Colin Brown?

  Here's Andrea's brother, Brian Kennedy.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  That Andrea may try to hurt the children, I mean, that never even entered my mind. Not my mind, not my mother's mind. I don't believe any of the family's mind that that would ever happen.

• 26:31Colin Brown?

  Now, at 2:45 PM that day, Rusty Yates went to the Harris County Medical Examiner's Office to identify the bodies of his children. They were all lying there, still in their pajamas. Each child had a foam-like substance that was tinged with blood coming out of their mouths, and noses. The little ones' diapers were big and wet from all the water. And sadly, each of the kids was covered in bruises, indicating that they had put up a fight against their mother when she was trying to kill them. But from there, Rusty said his goodbyes to his children, a moment he would never forget. And the following day, on June 21st, surrounded by a sea of reporters, Rusty would stand outside the family home with a framed picture of his family.

• 27:13Colin Brown?

  And to everyone's surprise, he expressed sympathy for his wife. What happened was just, you know, incomprehensible. I mean, I just can't...

• 27:23Speaker 07

  I, I, you know, looking back, you know, I struggled with it all last night. I couldn't sleep last night. I was like, no, is there anything I could have done, you know? I mean, I'm supportive of her. It's hard, you know, like I said, because, you know, I'm torn. One, one side of me, you know, blames her because she, you know, she did it, you know, but the other side of me says, well, she didn't because that wasn't her, you know, she, she wasn't in the right frame of mind. And, and I guess her, she had, you know, psychotic, you know, side effects with her depression that, that led her to do this.

• 27:55Colin Brown?

  Later that same day, Dr. Melissa Ferguson spoke with Andrea at the Houston Police Department and noted, "Patient is a very guarded historian, has difficulty providing dates, and presents her history in a piecemeal manner." It was very clear that Andrea was not in the right state of mind. She even told investigators that her father had starved himself and died by suicide, which wasn't true. Her dad died after a long battle with Alzheimer's disease. But Andrea continued telling investigators that she was a bad mother and a bad daughter. She talked about how she stopped showering because she was too tired. She said that she hadn't been homeschooling her oldest son Noah because he was a "R-word" and that she wasn't homeschooling him correctly.

• 28:36Courtney Brown?

  She also told them about how her children's cartoons had been speaking to her, how she heard Satan within the walls of their home. And when asked why she did what she did, Andrea said that she believed her children had to die so she could save them from an eternity in hell.

• 28:54Speaker 07

  What were you trying to accomplish then, when you did take your children's lives?

• 29:01Speaker 07

  Maybe in their innocent years, God would take them up. God would take them up to be in heaven, is that what you mean? All right. And if you had not taken their lives, what did you think would happen to them?

• 29:15Speaker 07

  They would continue stumbling. And where were they in hell? Hell. In hell. What sort of things did they do which showed you they weren't right? Well, they weren't, um...

• 29:32Speaker 07

  They just did a lot of silly stuff and didn't obey. Didn't obey you when you told them to do things? You mentioned their manners before, can you give me an example of their manners? When Mrs. Mom would visit, they would

• 29:53Speaker 07

  not treat her well, call her names. Be disrespectful? Okay, now, you concluded that they were not righteous and you're a religious person, and explain to me what you meant by not being righteous. They didn't do things God likes.

• 30:15Courtney Brown?

  Now, I know that was kind of hard to hear, but Andrea said that her children had been misbehaving. She truly believed that Satan had gotten to them, so in order to save them from hell, she ended their lives while they were still young and innocent.

• 30:31Colin Brown?

  Two days after the murders on June 22, as the sun set on 942 Beach Comber Lane, hundreds of people arrived for a candlelight vigil to remember the Yates children. There wasn't a dry eye in the crowd. Eventually, Rusty emerged from the house as a swarm of media and television cameras rushed to meet him. He respectfully asked the media to step back and said, "I want to have quiet for the kids." He also told everyone to continue to pray for Andrea as she was in jail, suffering with the repercussions from what she had done. And from there, the crowd began to sing "Amazing Grace." In front of them, surrounding a tree in the yard, was a shrine filled with teddy bears, flowers, balloons, pictures, and notes.

• 31:13Courtney Brown?

  One week after the murders, the community gathered at Clear Lake Church of Christ for the funerals of Noah, John, Paul, Luke, and Mary. Their white caskets adorned with flowers and ribbons had been arranged in a semicircle at the front of the church, and they were open. As the community came to pay their respects, everyone said that the children looked peaceful, almost as if they were just taking a nap. During the service, Rusty Yates stood before the congregation and admitted that this was the hardest thing he had ever had to do. Behind him on a Large screen were portraits of the kids.

• 31:53Courtney Brown?

  And one by one, Rusty started talking about the special qualities each of his children had. Noah, Rusty said, was intelligent and independent. He enjoyed playing alone and drawing pictures, but his favorite thing to draw was rainbows. Rusty said, quote, "He's probably drawn over a hundred rainbow pictures," end quote. He also loved Scooby Doo, Who Wants to be a Millionaire, and going outside to admire and collect bugs. During one of their trips to Florida, Noah had taken a caterpillar. And as they drove, the caterpillar sprouted its wings and turned into a butterfly, right in front of their eyes.

• 32:36Courtney Brown?

  Rusty looked down at the casket of Noah and said, quote, "That's kind of the way I feel about Noah. It's time to set him free. I love you," end quote. Next was John. Rusty stated that John was athletic, but his favorite sport was T-ball. Rusty said that John loved to play in roughhouse and that his brothers were his favorite people in the world. He also made friends easily with his fun and outgoing personality. Rusty remembered John's sweet and contagious smile with his adorable little gap in his front teeth. He turned to John's casket and said, "I love you, John." "Three-year-old Paul was the sweet child," Rusty said.

• 33:19Courtney Brown?

  "He loved to hug and cuddle, and the other boys would fight about who was going to sleep next to him in their bunk beds." His nickname was Bull Moose, and he was the best behaved out of all the children. Rusty said, quote, "You just ask him to do something once, and he just did it from then on. It's like, my wife asked him to close the bathroom door when they left, because we had a little safety lock on there. And no one did it except Paul. I love you, Bull Moose." Next was two-year-old Luke, whose nickname was Bulldozer. Rusty said he had trouble sitting still and never let anything get in his way. He was a very independent little boy, and if he could have done everything on his own, he would have.

• 34:04Courtney Brown?

  In the mornings, two-year-old Luke would grab his cereal, put it into a bowl, and then patiently wait for someone to pour his milk. But if he would have been strong enough to pour it himself, he definitely would have. Luke loved playing basketball, and he truly believed that he could make the furthest basket out of all of his brothers. Now lastly, Rusty talked about his daughter, six-month-old Mary, who rested peacefully in the small white casket, wearing a pink sleeper with red roses on the front. Rusty said that he didn't have a lot of experience with girls, but after Mary was born, he was thankful he finally had a daughter. He said she was very sweet and enjoyed giving kisses.

• 34:48Courtney Brown?

  He then walked towards her casket and said, "Goodbye, my little princess. I'm sorry we didn't get to know each other better. I'm sorry I didn't see you grow up. I love you. Rest in peace, my little girl." One by one, Rusty Yates said goodbye to his five children as the mourners inside the church wept. Once the service was over, everyone left the church and drove to the Forest Park East Cemetery in Webster, Texas for one final goodbye.

• 35:19Colin Brown?

  Something that I love in life are flavors that are salty and sweet. I mean, there's nothing better than a dark chocolate bar with sea salt on top. I mean, it's just, it's one of those things that I absolutely love in life that I will eat if I see it in front of me. And salt can enhance the flavor of so many different dishes, but especially desserts. That's why when Courtney and I tried Kachava's new salted caramel flavor, we were blown away. It actually tasted like salted caramel, which was crazy to me, and it was so delicious. Kachava's new salted caramel is the perfect balance of mouth-watering flavor and benefits. One serving provides all the nutrition your body craves in one deliciously simple shake, and just two scoops provide complete nutrition your body craves with Protein, fiber, greens, and so much more. When the day demands your salty side, fill it with plant-based protein that actually tastes delicious.

• 36:04Colin Brown?

  Kachava provides clean nutrition. There are no fillers, no nonsense, just like when you're feeling a little salty. There are also no artificial flavors, colors, or sweeteners. Kachava is non-GMO, no soy, no animal products, no gluten, and no preservatives. And there are so many different flavors to choose from, including chocolate, vanilla, chai, matcha, strawberry, coffee, cinnamon, French toast, and of course, salted caramel. Courtney and I have tried Kachava shakes. We love them. And even the packaging is really cool. That's something that I love about how the shakes are packaged and sent to you. I mean, you have to just hold it in your hand to see what I'm talking about. But yeah, we love them. Our pantry is stocked with Kachava products now. So why don't you embrace your salty side? Go to kachava.com and use code MIA for 15% off your first order. That's Kachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A dot com, code MIA.

• 36:48Speaker 07

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• 36:52Speaker 07

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• 37:18Speaker 00

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• 37:49Colin Brown?

  While the Yates children were being buried, their mother Andrea was still in the psychiatric jail cell undergoing evaluations. Throughout that week, she continued hearing Satan's voice inside the cinder block walls of the jail. She also told Dr. Ferguson that there were objects in the light fixtures. She then leaned forward in her chair and loudly stated, "It is the seventh deadly sin. My children weren't righteous. They stumbled because I was evil. The way I was raising them, they could never be saved. They were going to perish. I was so stupid. Couldn't I have killed just one to fulfill the prophecy?" Andrea then asked if her children were in heaven before saying that she wanted a razor to shave her head. She told Dr. Ferguson that she was Satan and wanted to see if the mark of the beast, 666, was still on the top of her head.

• 38:33Colin Brown?

  Her defense psychiatrist, Dr. Lucy Perrier, would later say, "She was the sickest person I've ever seen in my life. She was not bathed. She was dressed in this orange jail outfit. Her shirt was falling off of her. She didn't have a bra on, her hair was hanging in her face, and she was shaking." Her defense attorney would say, "She had eyes when she looked at you. Had no pupils. They were like shark eyes. She can answer questions about what happened, but any sort of question about why, or what's going on, or what are you doing, it just sort of sent her into an immediate never neverland." But in Andrea's mind, she wasn't mentally ill. She denied being sick at all, claiming that everything she experienced was actually happening. She told her doctors that she was Satan and even said, "The state will impose the death penalty on Satan."

• 39:18Courtney Brown?

  But as the news spread about her crime, the public seemed to have been divided. Some people, mostly men, believed she was pure evil. They didn't buy the fact that Andrea was actually insane. They thought it was all just an act to avoid responsibility. But a lot of people out there felt sorry for her, especially people who had dealt with postpartum depression or psychosis. When people are in that state, they aren't themselves. Women all over the world who are great mothers have said that during postpartum psychosis, they too have had thoughts about harming their children. Most will get help before they ever act on these thoughts.

• 39:58Courtney Brown?

  But it does happen, and I do think that back then, there was more of a stigma surrounding mental health. People didn't understand it the way they do today. And after the murders hit the media, everyone wanted to point the blame somewhere. Some blamed Andrea. Media outlets demonized her, saying she was pure evil. Other people blamed Deveraux, the hospital who treated her. And some people even blamed her husband Rusty. It would later come out that Andrea's doctors told them to stop having children, but due to their beliefs, she and Rusty wanted as many kids as God could give them, even if the doctors weren't against it.

• 40:40Courtney Brown?

  When Rusty was later asked why he and Andrea kept having babies, even though doctors told them that Andrea would likely have more psychotic breaks, he explained it in this way. Quote, "If you were given a brand-new Mercedes-Benz and said, 'Here it is for free,' but if you take this Mercedes-Benz, you're going to have the flu for two weeks, would you do it? Of course, that's the way we thought of it. Andrea might get sick, but we knew there were medicines out there that could help, and we would put her on those medicines and she'd be fine." End quote. But in the end, Andrea Yates wasn't suffering from the flu. Her condition was much, much worse.

• 41:23Courtney Brown?

  And she wasn't taking the medicine that would make her better. Rusty also came under scrutiny for leaving his wife alone with their children, after doctors specifically told him that she should not be left alone with them. Some people out there even suspected that Rusty had been involved in his children's deaths, as he was sometimes seen on the media smiling. Now, obviously, that wasn't the case. And in hindsight, I'm sure Rusty wishes he could do it all over. When he left the house that day, he never in a million years imagined that his wife would drown his five children. And I'm sure those thoughts have haunted him for his entire life.

• 42:04Courtney Brown?

  But like in any case, people had their opinions, and this would soon be the biggest story in America.

• 42:12Colin Brown?

  Now, throughout Andrea's evaluations, she never denied murdering her five children. She even told her counsel, attorneys George Parnham and Wendell Odom, that she wanted to plead guilty during her trial. She placed the blame on herself, often referring to herself as Satan, but her doctors knew that she was mentally ill. Dr. Vincent Risselli said, "She's clearly insane. You can't have that kind of history and all of a sudden bam, you kill five kids. She's a nurse, and most nurses are pretty nurturing kinds of people, caretakers. And you don't just suddenly drown five kids, something went wrong."

• 42:46Courtney Brown?

  But the prosecutors in Harris County didn't seem to agree. They believed that at the time of the murders, Andrea was mentally ill, but that she knew right from wrong. And on July 30th, 2001, a grand jury indicted her for intentionally and knowingly causing the death of Noah, John, and Mary. Of Noah, John, and Mary. Now, what about the other two children, Luke and Paul? Well, Andrea was facing capital murder charges, which meant if convicted, she would be eligible for the death penalty. And if for some reason she was found not guilty for the murders of Noah, John, and Mary,

• 43:28Courtney Brown?

  the prosecution could then try again with the murders of her other two kids, Luke and Paul. That was their backup plan. And ultimately, with the charges against her, Andrea pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. In the months leading up to her trial, Andrea was put back on her medication so she could be competent to stand trial. And slowly but surely, she started coming back around, which also meant that the reality of her crimes began to finally sink in. Her psychiatrist said that at night, she would bury her head beneath her pillow and weep over what she did to her kids. Meanwhile, everyone in America was gearing up for the trial of the century,

• 44:13Courtney Brown?

  which would take place on February 18th, 2002, just three days after what would have been Luke's third birthday.

• 44:21Courtney Brown?

  Jury of eight women and four men convened at the courthouse and soon enough, the trial commenced. The courtroom was packed that day. As Andrea stood at the defense table and entered her plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, prosecutor Joe Ombi began opening statements by saying, quote, "Luke, John, Paul, Mary, and Noah, these are the Yates children," end quote. He went on to state that each one was drowned, that their mother purposefully held them face down in the bathtub, their tiny limbs flailing beneath the weight, until their last breath was taken. His statement to the jury was, quote, "She is presumed to be sane, to know right from

• 45:05Courtney Brown?

  wrong," end quote.

• 45:07Colin Brown?

  For the next three weeks, the state argued that Andrea Yates knew what she was doing on the morning of the murders. According to their argument, Andrea's actions were intentional and premeditated. Their evidence for this? Andrea purposely waited until Rusty left the house that morning. She also committed the murders quickly, before her mother was set to arrive. According to the state's argument, Andrea was in her right mind and knew the perfect time to act. They relied heavily on physical evidence, especially when it came to the order in which the children were murdered. Instead of murdering the oldest child, Noah, first, she started with the younger children. The state argued that Andrea methodically planned this because there was a chance that Noah would have alerted the other children, and perhaps one of them could have run out of the house.

• 45:50Colin Brown?

  Now, they did not deny that Andrea Yates was mentally ill. However, they stated that she did know the difference between right and wrong.

• 45:58Courtney Brown?

  But the defense argued that Andrea was in the throes of postpartum psychosis, which severely impaired her sense of reality. They argued that she was so severely mentally impaired, that she was incapable of understanding the consequences of her actions. To further prove their argument, they played the video where Andrea told the psychiatrist that the cartoons were speaking to her and her children. Andrea also believed that she was Satan, which is why she had tried to kill herself on two separate occasions. Andrea wanted to eliminate Satan through the act of suicide. But when she realized that she could not kill the devil, she believed that murdering

• 46:41Courtney Brown?

  her own children would save them from eternal damnation.

• 46:51Speaker 07

  To himself, and maybe that even I had some say in the meeting.

• 46:57Courtney Brown?

  In Andrea's psychosis, she also believed that her children were destined for hell. And she even told a psychiatrist that her son John was going to be a serial killer, and that Luke was going to be a mute homosexual prostitute. She further added that Noah and Paul would die tragic deaths because they were meant to be punished.

• 47:19Colin Brown?

  To further prove Andrea's psychosis, the defense also brought up the Warren Ecki family, the fire and brimstone pastors that they looked up to. Like we mentioned earlier in this story, Andrea and Rusty communicated with these pastors for years, and many of their teachings were fear inducing. The Yates family even received the Warren Ecki's newsletters, which were filled with these intense religious ideologies. One of the newsletters included a poem titled "Modern Mother Worldly", that read, "Modern Mother Worldly was very, very lazy. All her children drove her crazy. The Bible told her to spank and train them, but society said she must never constrain them. The fruit of rebellion she did not see. On the day of judgment, she will have no plea. Modern Mother Worldly cast in hell.

• 48:04Colin Brown?

  Now what becomes of the children of such a Jezebel?" The defense argued that Andrea truly believed she was a Jezebel and was possessed by an unknown demonic force. One expert, defense psychiatrist Dr. Philip Resnick, even labeled Andrea's condition as "cacodemonomania", the belief that one is possessed by a demon. Dr. Resnick stated that "cacodemonomania is often found with people suffering from religious delusions." Andrea was also obsessed with the Bible verse, Luke 17:2, that stated, "It would be better for him if a milestone were hung around his neck than he were thrown into the sea than that he should cause one of the little ones to stumble." And Andrea quoted that verse in her evaluations.

• 48:45Colin Brown?

  She said her children were stumbling and that she needed to save them before it was too late.

• 48:51Courtney Brown?

  Now by the time of Andrea's trial, she was fully medicated and doing much, much better mentally, which is how it should be. The defendant has to be competent to stand trial. But this was also a double edged sword. Because when the jury saw her in court, she looked so normal. She didn't look like someone who was so mentally insane, she would take the life of her kids. So it was difficult to persuade the jury that Andrea, at the time of the murders, did not know right from wrong. Not to mention, the public already had their opinions of Andrea Yates, as the evil mother who intentionally murdered her innocent children in cold blood. It was also reported that after the murders,

• 49:36Courtney Brown?

  many of her police interviews were not recorded. So it was hard for them to show the jury exactly what her state of mind was like, immediately after murdering her kids. Now during the trial, the prosecution also called forward forensic psychiatrist Dr. Park Dietz to the stand. Apparently Dr. Dietz was somewhat of a celebrity, as he had also testified against child killer Susan Smith, and serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer. Now it would later come out that Dr. Dietz was paid $500 an hour to evaluate Andrea over the course of two days. And during his testimony at trial, Dr. Dietz brought up the fact that Andrea received five Cs while in college,

• 50:21Courtney Brown?

  and that two of those Cs were from classes involving children and family care. I guess his point of saying this was to prove that Andrea was a lousy mother. But during his evaluations of her, he actually did agree with a lot of Dr. Resnick's findings. Both believed that she was mentally ill. Both believed that she was delusional at the time of the murders. And both agreed that she knew what she was doing was against the law. However, Dr. Dietz did not agree that Andrea murdered her children because it was in their best interest. And surprisingly, he would bring up the show Law and Order. According to Dr. Dietz, he had done some consulting work for the

• 51:05Courtney Brown?

  show, and that there was one episode that eerily mimicked what Andrea had done to her kids. He claimed that the episode came out the very week that Andrea drowned her children, and that in it, a mother going through postpartum psychosis murdered her children in a bathtub, and then later pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. Now Rusty Yates would even confirm that he and Andrea would sometimes watch Law and Order, but he never remembered watching that specific episode. And this testimony seemed to have been a nail in Andrea's coffin. It planted a seed in the jury's head, that Andrea had

• 51:45Courtney Brown?

  watched this episode of Law and Order and was inspired by it. And after three weeks of testimony, the prosecution and defense rested their case. The fate of Andrea Yates was now in the hands of the jury. And after only three and a half hours, they had reached their verdict.

• 52:04Speaker 07

  We, the jury, find the defendant Andrea Pia Yates guilty of capital murder as charged in the indictment.

• 52:11Courtney Brown?

  On March 12th, 2002, exactly one year after the death of her father, Andrea Yates was found guilty of capital murder. When her verdict was read, Andrea started weeping. So did many of her friends and family members. Of course, they were horrified by what Andrea had done, but they all knew that she wasn't in her right state of mind. They all believed that she too was a victim. Now, a few days later, on March 15th, Andrea was set to be sentenced. But there was actually a huge update. Remember that Law and Order episode they talked about at her trial? Well, afterwards, Andrea's defense attorneys actually reached

• 52:54Courtney Brown?

  out to Law and Order's creator, Dick Wolf, to ask him about this episode. And as it turns out, no such episode existed. Dr. Dietz had provided false evidence. Now because of this, Andrea's attorneys tried to A mistrial, but Judge Belinda Hill denied the motion. And on March 15th, Andrea's sentencing phase began. She was facing two possible outcomes. Life in prison or death penalty by lethal injection. Ultimately, after only 35 minutes of deliberation, the jury decided to spare her life. And Andrea Yates was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 40 years.

• 53:40Colin Brown?

  If you love murder in America, you love mysteries. You love true crime. You love murder stories and the unknown. And I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and the Paranormal Files. On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events, pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice. No topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on The Conspiracy Files is backed up with fact. I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do. So you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real.

• 54:22Colin Brown?

  It's a completely different type of show than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories. Instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories, we're presenting you people with facts, telling you the story, walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with Murder in America, and then letting the listener decide what they think. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen. It's called The Conspiracy Files. The links are in the description of this show and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story. From there, Andrea was transferred from the county jail to Skyview, a prison psychiatric hospital in Rusk, Texas.

• 55:04Colin Brown?

  In the beginning, she still showed signs of mental illness, but as the time went on, she got better. Eventually, two years would pass. And after all that time of finally being consistent with her medication, Andrea showed signs of improvement. Now, on July 30th, 2004, Rusty Yates filed for divorce from Andrea, which obviously wasn't easy for her, but she had accepted her fate. She even started attending Bible studies with other women prisoners, and slowly, her responsibilities at the prison increased. She started mopping the floors, tending the flower beds outside, and doing laundry. All of these tasks gave Andrea comfort. But throughout the years, her defense attorneys worked hard to clear her name. Of course, they knew Andrea murdered her children,

• 55:47Colin Brown?

  but she wasn't some evil woman who was motivated to kill after watching a Law & Order episode, like Dr. Dietz had claimed. Andrea had been truly insane, and her defense worked hard with their appeals, which would finally pay off on January 6, 2005. That day, the Texas First Court of Appeals reversed Andrea's capital murder conviction, and she was granted a second trial.

• 56:12Courtney Brown?

  Andrea Yates would again plead not guilty by reason of insanity. She was even granted a $200,000 bail, under the condition that she be admitted to an inpatient mental health facility at Ruske State Hospital, which is what she would end up doing. Now, as she awaited this trial, Rusty Yates would actually marry another woman, named Laura Arnold, at the Clear Lake Church of Christ, the very same church where his children's funeral was held. Laura was also an engineer at NASA, and a member of Rusty's church. Together, in 2008, the two would have a son. But throughout everything, Rusty still supported Andrea.

• 56:54Courtney Brown?

  Here is what he would say to the Associated Press.

• 56:58Speaker 07

  I don't forget my children, and I don't forget Andrea, but I don't dwell on it either, you know? I mean, I try to remember my children fondly, and, you know, just support Andrea, but it's not consuming my life, I'm building a new life, you know? I mean, I'm, you know, busy at work, and remarried, and... Have a new family and it's, you know, more focused on that now. So then the first trial, they said Andrea was, did this to try to, you know, get out, whatever that means, you know, and, and, you know, which sounded like she wasn't happy at home and, you know, was in a bad situation at home and wanted to get out. And this, and this, this time, they said she wanted to run off with me into the sunset, you know, which is it, you know?

• 57:41Speaker 07

  The fact is, they spent five years and still don't have a reason why she did it because they're unwilling to look at the fact that she was psychotic. That's the only reasonable explanation for her behavior. They're refusing to see the obvious, you know? They're refusing to see the obvious that she was a sick woman. She was insane, you know? She was psychotic. She believed she was saving our children, you know? Here's a woman with a perfect record. I mean, she had never been in any trouble in her life, you know? Everyone who knows her, everyone who knew her supports her, you know? Everyone knows what a great mother she was and how out of character this act was for her.

• 58:16Courtney Brown?

  Andrea Yates's second trial began on June 26th, 2006, nearly five years to the day that her children were murdered. And for weeks, doctors provided their testimonies on Andrea Yates's mental health. This trial was a lot like her first one. The defense claimed that Andrea was under extreme stress, she was suffering from postpartum psychosis, and she was delusional. But the prosecution stuck by their claim that she was mentally ill, but she knew right from wrong, and that the murders were intentional and premeditated. Dr. Dietz's original findings were also presented to the jury, but this time, he didn't mention that fake Law & Order episode.

• 59:00Courtney Brown?

  Now during the trial, Andrea's defense really emphasized what it's like living with postpartum psychosis, and they really hammered down on exactly what can happen if it's left untreated. Finally, on July 26th, 2006, the jury left for deliberation, and it seemed as if all of America was tuning in, waiting to hear Andrea Yates's fate for the second time. And finally, after 12 hours of deliberation, the jury had reached a verdict. This time, Andrea Yates was found not guilty by reason of insanity.

• 59:39Colin Brown?

  Following the trial, a member of the jury named Todd Frank would tell a news reporter, "We understand that she knew it was legally wrong, but in her delusional mind, we believe that she thought what she did was right." Ultimately, the second jury accepted that Andrea's psychosis had impaired her ability to understand right from wrong. They were persuaded that Andrea truly believed Satan was speaking to her, and in an effort to save her children's lives, she killed them to make sure they were safe in heaven. Following this verdict, Andrea was taken to the Kerrville State Hospital in Kerrville, Texas, where she remains to this day. But Andrea's trial brought about many conversations about a number of things like mental health, how to care for mothers postpartum, and how things could have gone differently.

• 1:00:22Colin Brown?

  What if the doctors who had been seeing her had realized just how severe her postpartum psychosis was? What if she had been more consistent with her medicine? Another conversation was about the Warren Ecki family, who had been corresponding with the Yates family for years, sending them Armageddon-type messages that only added to Andrea's religious delusions. Former followers of the Warren Ecki family would later come forward and say that as soon as they heard that Andrea Yates was associated with this family, their hearts sank. Because some of the main teachings of the Warren Ekkies were that only a handful of people even make it into heaven, and that everyone else was going to spend an eternity suffering in hell. They created these scary religious views where they told people that everyone's going to hell, that time was running out, and that Satan was everywhere.

• 1:01:07Colin Brown?

  And during Andrea's trial, the psychiatrist even said that she believed that Andrea would never have drowned her children if she hadn't been hearing these messages from Michael Warren Ecki. Now, obviously, Michael Warren Ecki disputed these claims, but his former followers will later say that he had a way of getting into vulnerable people's minds. And for any mentally insane person hearing these messages from someone they look up to, it's not going to be good for them.

• 1:01:33Courtney Brown?

  Now, since her trial in 2006, there wasn't a lot of news about Andrea Yates. But in 2016, her defense attorney, George Parham, sat down for an interview with Today.

• 1:01:46Speaker 00

  Even with a long undocumented history of mental illness, including suicide attempts, she was charged and convicted of capital murder. But the verdict was later overturned, and in a subsequent trial, she was found not guilty by reason of insanity. She testified she believed her children's deaths would save their souls. Andrea Yates was committed to a Texas mental hospital where she remains today, now 52 years old. You talk to Andrea on a weekly basis?

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  I'd say probably about every seven or eight days.

• 1:02:19Speaker 00

  How is she doing?

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  She is, I think, doing remarkably well. She has excellent care.

• 1:02:28Speaker 00

  George Parham was and still is Andrea's attorney.

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  There's not a day that goes by where she doesn't care for, talk about, is happy about her children's lives before June the 20th, and grieves for her children.

• 1:02:48Speaker 00

  Parham says she spends her days making crafts, which are sold anonymously to benefit charity. And according to People Magazine, she also spends time watching videos of her children.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  The hospital where she is, there are no razor wires, there's no bars, there's no armed guards, no fences.

• 1:03:07Speaker 00

  For the most part, it's a life of solitude. She never leaves the hospital and has few visitors. And while the case comes up for review yearly, Andrea has never sought to be released. Rusty Yates divorced Andrea three years after the incident. He later remarried and had another child, a son who's now eight. According to recent court documents, his second wife filed for divorce last year. In a 2015 interview with Oprah Winfrey, he spoke about his grieving and where his acceptance is now.

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  For some reason, when I think about them today, I think of them as being, you know, teenagers. Because he would be 20. Or young adults. Your oldest son would be 20 now. It's real easy to get caught up in like, oh, you know, how they suffered, or the fact that they're gone, you know? And what I tried to do was say, look, I'm not going to let these events steal, you know, that joy, the joy that we had for those seven years. I could name a worse situation than this, maybe with the exception of Sandy Hook.

• 1:04:07Speaker 00

  The added element here, of course, is that the children were killed by the one person that should have guaranteed their safety. Five beautiful lives lost. Fifteen years later, a tragedy that still resonates. For today, Janet Shamley on NBC News, Houston.

• 1:04:24Courtney Brown?

  On April 5th, 2022, Andrea Yates waived her annual right to review on whether or not she should leave her mental health facility. As it turns out, she wants to be there. It seems as if she's finally accepted the fact that that's where she's meant to be, and she doesn't want to jeopardize her treatment. Today, she is 60 years old and spends her time making crafts, mostly greeting cards, which she sells at local art shows. All of the money that Andrea makes from this, she donates to support women who are dealing with postpartum depression through the Yates Children Memorial Fund. This fund was created

• 1:05:06Courtney Brown?

  not only to memorialize her children, Noah, John, Paul, Luke, and Mary, but to also raise awareness of postpartum depression and psychosis.

• 1:05:16Colin Brown?

  On April 23rd, 2002, Andrea's legal team released the following statement. "On June 20th, 2001, a tragedy of immense proportions occurred within the family of Andrea and Rusty Yates and their children Noah, John, Paul, Luke, and Mary. The drowning deaths of these children have galvanized world attention on issues of women's mental health and the insanity laws. The lesson to be learned from Andrea Yates: Mental condition should be the catalyst of change. As a society, we must work together to better understand and deal with mental health issues."

• 1:05:51Courtney Brown?

  This crime was absolutely horrific. It devastated all who knew their family, the community of Houston, and the entire world. But this tragedy was also a wake-up call. It helped shed light on the importance of mental health, untreated postpartum depression and psychosis, and how beneficial it is to have a supportive care network. Having children can be the Most beautiful thing in the world, but the reality is it's not always sunshine and rainbows. Partum conditions affect women every single day. It's far more common than one would think, and if left untreated, the symptoms can escalate.

• 1:06:33Courtney Brown?

  So it is so important that after giving birth, people not only look out for the baby's well being, but to also make sure the mothers have the care and resources that they need, which is exactly why the Yates Children Memorial Fund was created. Today, we remember the Yates children, Noah, John, Paul, Luke, and Mary. We will also be making a donation to the Yates Children Memorial Fund so that families can have resources, education, and support for mothers who are facing a mental health crisis after giving birth.

• 1:07:11Colin Brown?

  Hey, everybody, it's Colin here. Thank you so much for listening to part two of the Andrea Yates story and tuning in to Murder in America this week. As I said before, at the end of the last episode that we did on Andrea Yates, the story hits close to home because Courtney and I live in Houston. And I mean, there's just so many emotions that this story brings out of a person. It's just, it's just a crazy story from start to finish. But it's 2025 and we have some absolutely incredible episodes coming up in the next few weeks, months, honestly, for the whole year. We've got almost the whole year planned out. And if you want early ad-free access to those episodes, consider joining us on Patreon. I know some people really don't like the ads.

• 1:07:53Colin Brown?

  That's why we created the Patreon, so that people could subscribe to gain access to a fully ad-free experience. Also, there are bonus episodes available on Patreon, so if you love the show and you want to hear more episodes of Murder in America that will never be posted on our main feed, that's just another reason why you should consider signing up for our Patreon. As always, don't forget to follow us at Murder in America on Instagram and listen to our new show, The Conspiracy Files, available on all streaming platforms. And yeah, until next week, guys, it's so great to have everybody here. Hope you have been having an incredible January so far. And from Courtney and I both, thanks for listening, and I'll catch you on the next one.

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