172: Breadlines, Bank Failures, & the Bonus Army: Hoover & the Early Great Depression

"Too much praise cannot be given to the President for the prompt and resolute and skillful way in which he has set about reassuring the country after the financial collapse.” This is the story of Herbert Hoover’s facing the early years of the Great Depression. Just after the stock market crash of 1929, people aren’t expecting the worst. Most, including the experts, believe that this little downturn will blow over with time, just like past economic troubles. Avoiding the word “panic,” President Herbert Hoover comes up with a new term meant to describe how minor this downturn will be. He calls it a “depression.” He also pushes volunteerism. Congress cuts taxes. The Fed cuts the discount rate. Americans feel they are in good hands. But national productivity keeps going down. Unemployment keeps going up. Breadlines are getting longer and a drought has hit the heartland. Then major banks start going under, both in the US and abroad. Britain goes off the gold standard. As “Hoovervilles” spread and Great War vets march to DC, Bert Hoover—the famous “Master of Emergencies”—finds himself facing an economic challenge unlike any ever faced by a president. ____ Connect with us on HTDSpodcast.com https://www.htdspodcast.com/ and go deep into episode bibliographies https://www.htdspodcast.com/bibliography and book recommendations https://www.htdspodcast.com/book-recommendations join discussions in our Facebook community https://www.facebook.com/groups/257926761619618/ get news and discounts from The HTDS Gazette https://www.htdspodcast.com/newsletters-1 come see a live show https://www.htdspodcast.com/tour get HTDS merch or become an HTDS premium https://htds.supercast.com/ member for bonus episodes and other perks.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Greg Jackson?

  History That Doesn't Suck is supported by Vistaprint. This podcast is a small business passion project, and seeing our vision come to life offline is cool, too, thanks to our expert partner, Vistaprint. On my recent book tour, we were able to order custom, high-quality banners for book readings. It also added a nice professional polish. It also made the events more memorable because readers and I could pose together in front of the banner for selfies to post online. And that's just one of the countless premium products Vistaprint offers to elevate your brand identity. From postcards and posters to tumblers and t-shirts, Vistaprint makes high-end, custom printing accessible to everyone, giving you exceptional quality and results that make every single dollar go further. With real people on standby and seamless tools, Vistaprint guides you through every

• 0:43Greg Jackson?

  step of the process so you always look completely polished. There's a reason over 17 million small businesses trust Vistaprint to elevate their vision. Vistaprint: Print Your Possible. Right now, new customers get 20% off with code NEW20 at Vistaprint.com. That's 20% off at Vistaprint.com using code NEW20. History That Doesn't Suck is supported by Indeed. I'm not afraid to say this. As HTDS has grown, the business requires skills I know I don't naturally possess. If I need to hire, I think this is a job for Sponsored Jobs. When you sponsor your job on Indeed, you'll find the candidates with the skills you're looking for. Indeed is genuinely all you need to find quality talent.

• 1:28Greg Jackson?

  Instead of putting a post out there and praying the right people see it, Indeed Sponsored Jobs proactively connects you with candidates who match your precise criteria, whether that's location, software experience, or industry experience. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed.com/podcast. Just go to indeed.com/podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com/podcast. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  Are you looking for a football podcast that doesn't put you to sleep with a fog of analytics or insult your fandom with phony hot takes? I'm Dan Hanzus.

• 2:19Speaker 02

  And I'm Mark Sessler.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  And we're the hosts of Heed the Call, the NFL podcast you've been waiting for.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Heed the Call covers the entire NFL, not just the same five or six teams you're sick of, delivering news, weekly power rankings, plus previews and recaps of every matchup.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  Yes, we cover your team, and we do it with a touch of mirth, because football is fun. Why shouldn't your football podcast be the same?

• 2:38Speaker 02

  Follow and listen to Heed the Call NFL Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

• 2:52Greg Jackson?

  It's Tuesday, November 19th, 1929. Exactly three weeks since the New York Stock Exchange's crash, known as Black Tuesday, and President Herbert Hoover is entering the Cabinet Room at the White House. He takes his seat at the head of a long table, as others follow. But the gents gathering here aren't Burt's presidential cabinet. They're titans of the nation's railroad industry, here, at the behest of the President. Let me explain as they get seated and situated.

• 3:22Greg Jackson?

  While the stock market has continued to go down since its recent crash, no one realizes what economic miseries lie ahead. Most assume it's just the usual bustin' boom, an unfortunate but normal economic panic. This includes Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon, who advises the President to keep government out of the picture and let things run its course. To quote Andrew, "Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate. It will purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down. People will work harder, live a more moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people." Close quote.

• 4:06Greg Jackson?

  Now, the president will note in his later writings that Andrew Mellon is not heartless. Rather, this entirely hands-off thinking reflects his age, as the septuagenarian secretary goes on to explain that this is how previous presidents have acted—or not acted—in what he's personally seen since his early adulthood in the 1870s. But while this might have worked for Ulysses S. Grant in Grover Cleveland, Bert, who spent the last two weeks studying previous panics, believes that won't fly in the modern nation's more complex, interconnected, and no longer majority agricultural economy. As such, Bert's holding meetings—or conferences, as he calls them—with movers and shakers in various industries to ask them to step up to the plate and voluntarily do right.

• 4:50Greg Jackson?

  Ah, and this process starts with these railway leaders. So, back to this conference.

• 5:00Greg Jackson?

  We don't have a play-by-play, but Bert gets after these railwaymen. He hounds them, to borrow a phrase from the stout president's future biographer, Kenneth White, getting them to agree to spend $1 billion on upgrading construction projects over the next year. "Wow, talk about job creation." The New York Times calls this "heartening information" as it sings Bert's praise. And Bert Hoover—or "the master of emergencies," as he's also known—isn't done. Later that afternoon, he meets with members of the Federal Reserve's Board of Governors. They hear the president's concerns, and like the New York Reserve Bank—which lowered its discount rate from 5% to 4.5% last week—the other Reserve Banks will lower their rates to make credit flow.

• 5:46Greg Jackson?

  The next day, November 20th, Bert meets with the nation's most influential business leaders: car manufacturer Henry Ford, Sears Roebuck's Julius Rosenwald, General Electric's Owen Young, and others. Bert urges them to remember the people, that this is a "human problem," and offers a deal: if they'll avoid layoffs and wage cuts, he'll get labor not to strike. They aren't all as enthusiastic as Henry Ford, who proclaims that he'll even give raises, but they agree, contingent on labor going for it. No problem. The following day, November 21st, Bert gets William Green of the American Federation of Labor and other union leaders to say yes.

• 6:29Greg Jackson?

  So, no layoffs, no cut wages, and no strikes. Meanwhile, Bert's creating the Volunteerism Assisting National Business Survey Conference, getting the newly-created Federal Farm Board to maintain crop prices, coaxing state and municipal leaders to tackle relief efforts and increase public works programs, and convincing the National Electric Light Association to spend $100 million on projects. That's our great humanitarian. The President's also trying to keep things calm by avoiding the word "panic." Instead, he's calling this economic downturn a simple "depression." Huh. We'll see how that term ages, but right now, it seems Bert's on a roll. And as the month ends, he has the opportunity

• 7:14Greg Jackson?

  to show leadership with the State of the Union address. Let's see how it goes.

• 7:23Greg Jackson?

  It's the afternoon of December 3rd, 1929. We're in the U.S. Capitol's House Chamber, and Congressional Clerk William Tyler Page is approaching the dais. Yes, a clerk. While Woodrow Wilson restored the tradition of the President personally delivering an annual address to Congress, shy Herbert Hoover prefers the old method of a clerk reading it. With another in the Senate Chamber reading to that august body, William now faces the 71st Congress's representatives. He reads: "The problems with which we are confronted are the problems of growth and of progress. In their solution, we have to determine the facts, to develop the relative importance

• 8:04Greg Jackson?

  to be assigned to such facts, to formulate a common judgment upon them, and to realize solutions in a spirit of conciliation." Nice positive framing, Bert. William reads the President's thoughts on foreign affairs, his recommendation to trim the military's budget, then comes to a subject that the newspapers will really pick up on: a tax cut. The President wants Congress to lower income and corporate taxes by 1% each, even though it will cost the federal government $160 million. Coming to what he calls the “general economic situation,” Burt addresses the “wave of uncontrolled speculation that led to the stock market crash,” but assures Congress that this economic downturn will be a smoother ride than previous ones.

• 8:49Greg Jackson?

  Burt has full confidence in the Federal Reserve system and the voluntary deals he’s been putting together. Our faithful clerk reads out the president’s words: “The sudden threat of unemployment, and especially the recollection of the economic consequences of previous crashes, under a much less secured financial system, created unwarranted pessimism and fear. I have, therefore, instituted systematic voluntary measures of cooperation with the business institutions and with state and municipal authorities to make certain that fundamental businesses of the country shall continue as usual, that wages and therefore consuming power shall not be reduced, and that a special effort shall be made to expand

• 9:32Greg Jackson?

  construction work in order to assist in equalizing other deficits and employment.” Yes, the president is confident in the strength of these voluntary measures. It’s at moments like this that the Republican representatives applaud, the Democrats don’t. Stronger enforcement of prohibition, the post-office budget, the development of highways, Burt’s address tackles these and more, including a reiteration of his interest in a tariff that he expects will protect American farmers. But will these endeavors, particularly these voluntary measures, for which he’s currently receiving so much praise, lift the nation from this depression? Only time will tell.

• 10:29Greg Jackson?

  Welcome to History That Doesn’t Suck. I’m your professor, Greg Jackson, and I’d like to tell you a story.

• 10:49Greg Jackson?

  I know. It sounds like Herbert, the master of emergencies Hoover, has this economic downturn, this depression, in the bag. Yet, as I trust you know, but spoiler alert if not, the depression will only get worse and come to define Bert's one-term presidency. That tragic path is today's story. We'll start where we just left off, late 1929, with the hopeful nation looking to their famous-for-disaster-relief president. Entering 1930, we'll find Bert continues to encourage volunteerism, along the lines of what we heard about in this episode's opening, and see him face a nasty flood, as well as sign the protective Smoot-Hawley tariff into law. Meanwhile, the breadlines keep growing, and before the year's end,

• 11:34Greg Jackson?

  a major bank collapses. The, not a government institution despite its name, Bank of the United States. Entering 1931, we'll find that Americans and President Herbert Hoover are all starting to realize that this isn't a typical economic downturn. We'll listen to Bert continue encouraging the nation's volunteerism with an inspiring speech at Valley Forge, but also see the Great Depression take a nasty turn on the global level, as banks fall like dominos in Europe. As these failures lead Great Britain to give up the gold standard, Bert will follow the conventional wisdom of the day, and do what he must to protect America's gold standard and gold supply. By 1932, we'll find that Bert is trying new programs, even some that require making space for the federal government

• 12:19Greg Jackson?

  in the everyday American's life. Like the Reconstruction Finance Corporation. But with unemployment through the roof, Americans living in shanty towns dubbed Hoovervilles, and Great War veterans marching and camping in Washington DC to demand their long promise but still not due bonuses be paid now, can Bert keep the confidence of the American people? Or will his use of General Douglas MacArthur in the US Army to disperse these veterans prove a death blow to the out-of-step-on-prohibition president's chances of reelection? So, very much to find out. Oh, and one final note: this episode uses a number of economic terms defined in episode 170, like the Federal Reserve system, discount rate, securities, and more. So if

• 13:03Greg Jackson?

  you haven't heard that episode, you might want to start there. And with that, let's continue the tale of Herbert the Great Humanitarian Hoover's presidency at the start of the Great Depression. Here we go.

• 13:18Greg Jackson?

  Quick, decisive, hitting the books to understand previous panics—or depressions, to use the new term—and how to confront them. Yes, President Herbert Hoover, the man who fed the Belgians during the war, the Russians after, and handled the Great Mississippi Flood of 1927, sure seems to be living up to his nicknames as the great engineer, the great humanitarian, and the master of emergencies in the immediate aftermath of the stock market crash of October 1929. As Will Rogers once said, "When a man is sick, he calls a doctor; but when the United States of America is sick, they call for Herbert Hoover." Or better still, it's as the New York Times puts it on December 1, 1929, just two days before

• 14:01Greg Jackson?

  the State of the Union that we just attended, quote, "Too much praise cannot be given to the president for the prompt and resolute and skillful way in which he has set about reassuring the country after the financial collapse. No one in his place could have done more. Very few of his predecessors could have done as much." Close quote. Now, this same New York Times article also points out that no one should expect this downward economic turn to reverse overnight. To quote it again, "Hoover himself would be the first to say that it should not create false hopes. It will be some time before the projected outlays by great corporations can be made concrete in actual employment."

• 14:42Greg Jackson?

  Close quote. Sure. I mean, all the greatest minds know this is merely a run-of-the-mill panic, but even those have to run their course. But as December passes and 1929 fades into 1930, unemployment isn't leveling off—it's going up. And in New York City, one charitable woman is noticing an uptick in those seeking her assistance.

• 15:08Greg Jackson?

  It's a chilly winter afternoon, just before 4:30 on February 24th, 1930. Fifty-one-year-old, Michigan-born, Miss Marion Spoor pushes aside her wealth of brown curls as she steps out of her chauffeured car and onto the snow and slush of First Street between Second Avenue and the Bowery in New York City. She walks toward her usual locale, a small cul-de-sac called Extra Place, and in doing so, passes hundreds of men in a line that wraps up and down the street and much of the block, even parting for traffic near the corner of First Street and Second Avenue. Some of these men, jobless, homeless, perhaps disabled but invariably hungry, have been

• 15:50Greg Jackson?

  standing here, shivering in the cold winter's wind, for more than six hours. And they're here to see Marion, or, as they and the rest of New York call her, the Lady Bountiful of the Bowery. Once situated in her usual spot, Sergeant David Garrity and nine patrolmen help Marion distribute tickets. Each one is redeemable for a bowl of stew, a slice of bread, and a cup of coffee at the YMCA at 22 East Third Street. These tickets are valued at about a nickel apiece, and Marion, a former dentist turned artist, famous for supposedly channeling dead artists in her own surrealist works, is handing out roughly $700 worth of these breadline vouchers.

• 16:31Greg Jackson?

  She also distributes colored tickets for anyone in need of shoes or medical attention. But as the men come forward, the curly-haired brunette artist is likely noticing some faces she hasn't previously seen in her three years of distributing these tickets twice a week. In the weeks ahead, The New York Times will report that breadlines, like Marion's, are increasingly filled with men not only dressed in army overcoats and Navy P jackets, but suits, ties, and white collars. Don't bother asking anyone what brings them here today. They'll all tell you the same thing: I'm out of work.

• 17:07Greg Jackson?

  The needs of this crowd aren't just food, though, for these "extra cases," as Marion calls them. She uses her office at 24 East 3rd Street. One is a Frenchwoman who has only a quarter to her name but must pay $30 in rent due today. Marion sends her away with 50 bucks. She then pays the bus fare for a man, his wife, and two children to get to Atlantic City where he has a job lined up. Marion also pays the full $75 for a man to replace his crude wooden leg with a proper prosthetic. When asked by a New York Times reporter about her future plans, she states simply, "The breadline will go on just the same."

• 17:49Greg Jackson?

  Our Lady Bountiful of the Bowery, Marion Spoor, is not the only one working to help the ever-growing and even necktie-wearing jobless population of New York City. The following month, March 1930, Reverend Dr. Randolph Ray, the rector of the Church of the Transfiguration, announces a breadline to feed 1,000 mouths daily. It's the third time his church has done this, the last being the Panic of 1907 and before that, during the Civil War. Lieutenant Colonel Wallace Winchell of the Salvation Army reports that they're not only busy with meals, but have filled all 611 rooms of the Bowery Hotel with destitute people. In fact, there are times when they even pack the corridors and lounging rooms with 400 more who need to escape the cold winter's night.

• 18:33Greg Jackson?

  The same is true for Miss Grace Swan of the St. Barnabas House on Mulberry Street. Though normally intended strictly for destitute women and children, Miss Grace has found herself in recent months opening her doors to families of the unemployed. And of course, William Randolph Hearst, who's never one to miss the chance to get his name in his own newspapers, also operates a charity breadline. He has two trucks in the middle of Times Square distributing soup out of cauldrons from morning until night, under massive Klieg lights illuminating the charity. Nor are the breadlines in Needy just a big apple thing. It's like this across the nation. For instance, an opportunity for the unemployed to chop wood in exchange for groceries in Boston draws a crowd of 600.

• 19:18Greg Jackson?

  Yet, despite these and other concerning developments across the nation, it's important for us to remember that, at this point, most of the nation's "supposedly informed," as historian John Garrity puts it, remain convinced that this is a typical panic. Indeed, that same March, 36 states report unemployment at either normal rates, moderately up, or even descending. That June, President Herbert Hoover tells a group of clergymen asking him to expand public works projects that, quote, "You have come 60 days too late. The Depression is over," close quote. Meanwhile, Congress has one of Bert's pre-stock market crash economic goals ready for a signature:

• 19:59Greg Jackson?

  the Smoot-Hawley Tariff. Sponsored by Senator Reed Smoot and Representative Willis Hawley, this tariff isn't actually what the president had in mind. See, Bert wants to help the American farmer. He pushed for last year's Agricultural Marketing Act, which created the Federal Farm Board to help stabilize agriculture markets by purchasing surplus grain and cotton. And in that same spirit, he's pushed for an agricultural tariff that, in theory, will protect American farmers from foreign imports. But after all the horse trading required to make the Smoot-Hawley tariff happen, it's now raising rates on 2,000 items, including a slew of manufactured goods. A lot of economists oppose the tariff.

• 20:44Greg Jackson?

  At least 1,028, to be precise, and they sign an open letter to the president calling for him to veto it. They note the tariffs are already high and fear this will only anger international trading partners. Hmm, that wouldn't be great, considering how important international trade is now that the United States produces 40% of the world's manufactured goods. House of Morgan senior partner, Thomas W. Lamont, whose office we visited amid the crash in episode 170, later recalls: "I almost went down on my knees to beg Herbert Hoover to veto the asinine Hawley-Smoot tariff." But Bert's blown so much political capital to make this tariff happen, and it has the flexibility provision that he requested.

• 21:27Greg Jackson?

  So, on June 17th, Bert signs the Smoot-Hawley Tariff, or more properly, the Tariff Act of 1930. And just as the economists feared, trading partners retaliate with tariffs on American goods. The Smoot-Hawley Tariff's actual damage will number among those aspects of the Great Depression that future historians and economists will long debate. That said, few if any will call it helpful.

• 21:54Greg Jackson?

  But whatever one might think about the Smoot-Hawley Tariff, Bert has another problem on his hands in the summer of 1930. A drought has struck America's heartland. Hold up, an emergency devastating millions of families as crops and livestock die? Well, now we're in the master of emergencies wheelhouse. Assembling the governors of the several afflicted states, Bert calls for establishing the National Drought Relief Committee, which will work with state committees, which will work with county committees, as charities like the Red Cross do the heavy lifting. Ah, the Red Cross, not the White House. See, Bert earnestly believes that it is not the federal government's role to heavily intervene in such emergencies, and that's keeping him from applying his natural gift

• 22:39Greg Jackson?

  for handling a crisis to this drought. Now that he's president, he expects others to carry America's proud tradition of volunteerism. It's with this limited government thinking that he tells the more relief-minded Congress not to send more than $25 million in aid, and only as loans for drought-stricken farms, not a government dole to feed the hungry. But the starving are not interested in ideological technicalities. Neither are all in Congress, and one representative from the devastated state of Arkansas can't help but question why the president, quote, "would feed jackasses but wouldn't feed starving babies." Ooh, not a good look for the man famous for feeding starving Europe.

• 23:21Greg Jackson?

  Meanwhile, as we enter late 1930, the Depression isn't letting up. With over 4 million Americans out of work, unemployment will average 8.7% for the year. In October, Bert creates the President's Emergency Committee for Employment. Ah, but like the drought committee, it offers no direct assistance to the average American, instead coordinating with state and local programs.

• 23:47Greg Jackson?

  America takes a big step toward the Democrats in November's midterm election, but this is hardly a full repudiation of Herbert Hoover. Republicans still hold a majority in both houses. There's still every reason to expect this slump. This depression is no worse than the panic of 1920 to 21, and it'll soon work itself out. But then the banks start failing. Now, bank failures are not unusual in this era. Even in the roaring twenties, hundreds shut their doors every year. The best year was 1922, when only 367 banks went under. But as unemployment rises and productivity drops, bank closures skyrocket.

• 24:29Greg Jackson?

  A major culprit is the ethically questionable Caldwell & Company, which has been struggling ever since the crash of '29. When its Bank of Tennessee goes down on November 7th, it unleashes a cascade of bank closures in the South. The last two months of 1930 alone see 608 banks suspend operations. While this is a national figure, most of these banks are in the drought region, which, it seems, not only dried up farmland, but bank liquidity. Now, Bert Hoover still has hope. If you ask him, he'd be quick to point out that a full third of these banks reopen before long, and on December 2nd, his State of the Union address reassures that, quote, "The

• 25:09Greg Jackson?

  fundamental strength of the nation's economy is unimpaired," close quote. But it's hard to quell fear amid rumors and failing banks. They create panic and bank runs. It's the afternoon of December 10th, 1930. We're at the corner of Southern Boulevard and Freeman Street in the Bronx, New York City, where a massive crowd has gathered outside the Bank of the United States. The reason is that, earlier today, a small-time merchant came to this bank that, despite its name, is not connected to the US government, and found the publicly traded institution unwilling to cash out his stock in it. Or so some say.

• 25:51Greg Jackson?

  Others claim that the bank merely advised the merchant not to sell because their stock is such a good investment. But whatever the truth, it doesn't matter right now, because these terrified account holders converging on the bank are all set on one thing: getting their money out before this bank fails and they lose everything.

• 26:10Greg Jackson?

  Mounted police patrol as some 20,000 people, mostly spectators but including thousands of account holders, crowd the bank's doors. Bodies choke off the entrances as unmanageable lines pour inside where bank tellers do their best to reassure customers who, more often than not, nonetheless choose to withdraw. The accounts come in all sizes, including one man who waited two hours just to withdraw $2 from a savings account. By the end of the day, the panic has led the bank runs on the institution's other branches, like those in Brownsville in Brooklyn. Bank of the United States VP Herman Gottlieb estimates that some 2,500 customers have withdrawn $2 million from this location in the Bronx alone.

• 26:55Greg Jackson?

  That evening, a group of financiers meets at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York to discuss how they might save the Bank of the United States from closing its doors. But come morning, they have to admit that they can't. The bank runs have it hemorrhaging. It's failed.

• 27:16Greg Jackson?

  In this era before federal bank insurance, a bank's failure means its customers simply lose their money. Period. That's why, as the Bank of the United States shuts its doors for good on December 11, 1930, George Jealous is so desperate. The 61-year-old's $1,000 life savings from his 40 years of work as a janitor was all in that bank, and he was only able to withdraw 200 before it folded. Utterly despondent, he hangs himself from a steam pipe in his apartment, leaving behind a simple note to his son, reading, "Let my wife have all the money, if she gets any. Goodbye, George. Be a good boy." While the Bank of the United States does manage to pay out a significant percentage

• 28:00Greg Jackson?

  of deposits, George's heartbreaking tale is but one glimpse into the damaged rot upon its 400,000 account holders, as a great deal of their combined $202,972,469 in deposits evaporate. For some, this bank failure, the first big bank failure, is the moment that the Depression becomes the Great Depression. By the end of 1930, the year has seen over 1,300 banks fail. And as 1931 begins, there isn't an end of this in sight. Increasingly, Americans are recognizing that this temporary economic downturn isn't so temporary after all.

• 28:42Greg Jackson?

  And as this reality sinks in, the nation continues to hope that their organizationally gifted president, the master of emergencies himself, the great humanitarian Herbert Hoover, can right the ship.

• 28:58Greg Jackson?

  HTDS is sponsored by BetterHelp. Thanksgiving looks different for everyone. For some, it's travel, turkey, family, and football. For others, it's just another Thursday. Whatever your tradition, or none at all, I think it's worth pausing to make a little room for gratitude in our busy lives. And maybe giving ourselves permission to rewrite a few of the holiday rules that may actually add to your stress. If the season's expectations and emotions are weighing on you, talking it through with a professional can help. BetterHelp therapists are licensed, experienced professionals with at least three years and 1,000 hours of hands-on experience. A short questionnaire helps BetterHelp match you with a therapist who fits your needs and preferences.

• 29:41Greg Jackson?

  And if you're not happy with your match, you can switch to a different therapist at any time. BetterHelp is now in-network with more than 125 health plans, with many copays as low as $15 for eligible members. And if you don't have eligible insurance or live outside the US, you can still get 10% off your first month. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/htds. That's betterh-e-l-p.com/htds. History That Doesn't Suck is sponsored by Square. In 1883, a small business owner in Dayton, Ohio, James Riddy patented the first mechanical cash register. As the legend goes, while traveling to Europe a few years earlier, he grew fascinated by

• 30:26Greg Jackson?

  a device measuring the propeller's revolutions onboard.

• 30:30Greg Jackson?

  Watching the mechanism in action really considered whether a similar device could record cash transactions. Logging every sale mechanically would allow both the owner and the patron to review and verify each transaction. Small businesses have come a long way since then, and in fact, history that doesn't suck uses Square at the merch table for our live shows. No clunky cash register, just a small iconic Square tap and pay device and a smartphone. Square keeps innovating with new tools, so businesses spend less time managing the day to day and more time growing. Their AI turns your sales data into answers you can actually use. What's selling? Where you might be losing time or money? If you're ready to sell smarter, run faster, and stress less, right now, you can get up

• 31:15Greg Jackson?

  to $200 off Square hardware at square.com/go/htds. That's S-Q-U-A-R-E dot com slash G-O slash H-T-D-S. Run your business smarter with Square. Get started today.

• 31:42Greg Jackson?

  Historians and economists will forever debate why this economic panic, or this depression, to again, use President Herbert Hoover's new term, still isn't self-correcting by the start of 1931. But regardless of those debates, the fact is that productivity is down. For instance, the private sector spent about 33% less on construction over the past year, a difference of about $3 billion than it did in the year previous. Unemployment is creeping into the double digits. With the American people still looking to Bert that January, his new Secretary of Labor, William Doak, points the finger at foreigners. Bert gets on board. As the president will later state in his memoirs, he restricts immigration because,

• 32:25Greg Jackson?

  quote, "directly or indirectly, all immigrants were a public charge at the moment. Either they themselves went on relief as soon as they landed, or if they did get jobs, they forced others onto relief," close quote.

• 32:39Greg Jackson?

  This deportation effort, soon dubbed repatriation, starts with the Department of Labor's Bureau of Immigration sending agents to work with local law enforcement in raids of city centers like La Placita in Los Angeles in February 1931, where more than 400 people are searched by agents, looking for what the later government-appointed Wickersham Commission will call "supposed aliens" without papers. Americans of both major parties find these raids disturbing. Pivoting from those bad optics then, William Doakes' agents go more low-key, trying to incentivize those they approach to leave the country on their own. These tactics include denying food relief and medical care, or providing a free train ticket out of the United States.

• 33:22Greg Jackson?

  In this way, thousands are deported, many of whom are native-born US citizens, going to countries where they have no homes or families. While various immigrant communities are affected, including Japanese and Chinese Americans, repatriation primarily targets Mexican Americans, especially in Southern California, and will continue into the 1940s. Shortly after repatriation starts, in March 1931, construction begins on the largest American public works project to date: a dam in the Colorado River's Black Canyon that will allocate water to several southwestern states and generate hydroelectricity. Now, not to take away from this nearly $50 million dam, its $70 million power plant

• 34:03Greg Jackson?

  and generators, or the ultimate employment of more than 20,000 men to build them, but we should note that this is not Bert directly responding to the ongoing depression. This project has roots going back to his days as Commerce Secretary, and will continue well after he leaves the White House. Oh, and is it filled with drama? Yeah, we'll save this story for another day. And so, as the early months of 1931 pass, the American people increasingly want their talented president to take direct action. But Bert largely holds to his philosophical belief that the federal government should not do what the American people might do through volunteerism. In his mind, volunteerism is how he fed war-ravaged Europe. It's how he's accomplished so many of the great deeds on his resume, and as for his

• 34:48Greg Jackson?

  power moves as head of the US Food Administration, well, that was different, because the Great War was going on. Bert draws that distinction while speaking at Madison Square Garden, calling Woodrow Wilson's wartime presidency "a 'centralized despotism', while asserting that, "However justified in time of war, if continued in peacetime, it would destroy not only our American system, but with it, our progress and freedom as well." Close quote. Yes, Bert is sure that the American people can voluntarily uplift each other and thereby overcome this depression. They just need inspiration, a new narrative. And that's just what he plans to give the nation this Memorial Day.

• 35:36Greg Jackson?

  It's about 10:30 in the morning, Saturday, May 30, 1931. Exiting their flower-filled private car, the first couple, Herbert and Lou Hoover, wave to the crowd gathered around their motorcade escort in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. What a crowd it is. Cars are backed up for miles. The Red Cross has stations set up, ready to attend to any who succumb to the late morning's heat. There are, after all, some 20,000 people here. Today, they've all come to this most famous and sacred of Revolutionary War winter camps for the same reason: to listen to Bert deliver a Memorial Day address. The first couple walks through a lane of soldier-to-soldier Pennsylvania National Guardsmen, all standing,

• 36:20Greg Jackson?

  to quote the Philadelphia Inquirer, "rigid as carving statues." They form a path to the red, white, and blue platform, prepared for Bert's speech. As the presidential couple proceeds through their well-protected column, First Lady Lou Hoover finds herself returning the salutes from what the papers call "her own troops," that is, the Girl Scouts. Every time the First Lady raises her hand to her black straw hat, she puts an ear-to-ear grin on the face of yet another young, uniformed girl.

• 36:50Greg Jackson?

  The president ascends the platform. The crowd goes wild as he does so. You can barely hear the 21-gun salute from the 107th Field Artillery, or the horns of the 108th Field Artillery Band. Taking the stand, Bert basks in the shadow of an ancient maple, and looks at the sea of faces before him, including, in the front row, Civil War veterans. I wonder if he notices the black Union soldier, seated next to the 80-year-old gray-clad former Confederate. Well, with two microphones before him, one for the radio broadcast, and one for the talking-motion picture of this event, Bert begins speaking. And it doesn't take long to see why the Great Depression president has chosen this sacred, hollowed ground for today's remarks.

• 37:33Greg Jackson?

  This national shrine needs no description. The events enacted here require no recounting to the American people. The very name, Valley Forge, swells within us a pride of nationality. These peaceful fields hold a glory peculiarly their own. The sufferings of Washington's army, and that dreadful winter of privation, have made this place famous among all men. It was not the glory of battle for which these fields are remembered. No great battle was fought here. A thousand other fields marked the courage, the glory, the valor, the skill, the martial triumph of our race. Yet, it is a shrine to the themes of the spirit and of the soul.

• 38:14Greg Jackson?

  It was the transcendent fortitude and steadfastness of these men, who in adversity and in suffering, through the darkest hour of our history, held faithful to an ideal. Here, men endured that a nation might live. This peculiar significance of Valley Forge in our American annals should strike us all with a special force in this particular moment of our national life. The American people are going through another Valley Forge at this time. To each and every one of us, it is an hour of unusual stress and trial. You have, each one, your special cause of anxiety. So too have I. The whole nation is beset with difficulties,

• 38:59Greg Jackson?

  incident to a worldwide depression.

• 39:02Greg Jackson?

  Valley Forge meant such a challenge to steadfastness in times and terms of war. Our test is to meet this challenge in times and terms of peace. We are enduring sufferings and we are assailed by temptations. We too are writing a new chapter in American history. If we weaken, as Washington did not, we shall be writing the introduction to the decline of American character and the fall of American institutions. If we are firm and far sighted, as were Washington and his men, we shall be writing the introduction to a yet more glorious epic in our nation's progress. God grant that we may prove worthy of George Washington and his men of Valley Forge.

• 39:54Greg Jackson?

  It's a touching speech. Unfortunately, these inspiring words can't stop Europe's economic meltdown, nor the ramifications it will bring to America's shores. Now, before I get into the specifics of European fiscal failures, let me remind you that post-World War I, America's financial system is much more enmeshed in Europe's economy than it was before. As we know from episode 147, 1919's Treaty of Versailles required Germany to pay astronomical reparations to Britain and France. Germany's new Weimar Republic answered by printing money to make payments, which caused hyperinflation. This was fixed, however, in 1924 by the Dawes Plan.

• 40:37Greg Jackson?

  We covered this in episode 156, but in short, then-Vice President Charles Dawes' plan created a triangular cash flow. The US loans Germany money, which enables Germany to make payments to Britain and France, and that, in turn, helps Britain and France pay its war debts to the US. Well, this plan was followed by another early in Herbert Hoover's presidency called the Young Plan. Led by Owen D. Young of General Electric, the Young Plan kept the same international cash flow while laying out a plan for Germany to make its last reparations payments in 1987, and floated the Weimar Republic another $300 million loan.

• 41:14Greg Jackson?

  All that to say, the aftermath of World War I has a lot of money flowing between the US, Germany, Britain, and France. And this means that, if one fails, it could have a disastrous domino effect. And with all of these nations, apart from France, feeling a financial pinch over the last year or so, it's less a question of if this happens, than when. A little less than three weeks before Bert's Valley Forge speech, in other words, on May 11th, 1931, the first international domino fell. Austria's great bank, perhaps the biggest bank in Central Europe, Credit Anstalt, failed.

• 41:54Greg Jackson?

  Now Austria may not be a part of the DAS or Young Plan Trade Triangle, but as a major trading partner with neighboring Germany, and no stranger to trade with the US, Credit Anstalt's closure contributes to more US banks failing. 167 failed that June alone, and Germany's seen enough bank closures and destabilization for its president, Paul von Hindenburg, to fear a communist or fascist coup. Yikes. On June 5th, House of Morgan's senior partner, Thomas W. Lamont, calls President Herbert Hoover, suggesting a bank holiday on war debts and reparations. Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon hates the idea, but Bert's on board.

• 42:36Greg Jackson?

  On June 20th, the president officially calls for this one-year moratorium on war payments. Come July 6th, all nations and parties required to agree to it have, and the Hoover Moratorium, as it's known, goes into effect. It really is a great idea, but it's too late. Later that same month, July 13th, one of Germany's largest banks, the Danach Bank, goes under. That's right, the second domino. Wall Street panics. US institutions are heavily invested in German securities. In fact, investors the world overpanic as their gaze shifts across the English Channel. After all, Germany and Britain are so enmeshed financially. What ramifications will this German failure have in London?

• 43:22Greg Jackson?

  Not waiting to find out, investors start dumping the already troubled British pound sterling, sending the gold-backed currency reeling. Between July 6th and July 30th, the Bank of England's gold fund falls from an equivalent of $807 million US to only $158 million. It's all too much. On September 21st, Britain abandons the gold standard. Twenty-five other nations follow suit. While John Maynard Keynes celebrates his and his fellow Britons “breaking of our gold fetters,” Britain's relief is a third domino that slams into the United States. Why? Because the US is still holding to the gold standard, and to prevent its gold holdings

• 44:07Greg Jackson?

  from being drained internationally in the wake of Britain's move, the Federal Reserve has to tighten credit. Now, tightening credit is the exact opposite of what a nation's central banking system should do in the midst of a depression. In the 21st century, most would call this throwing gasoline on a fire, but there's no way Bert, or indeed most experts in 1931, would risk a path that might take the United States off the gold standard like Britain. Protecting it is a given. So, to that end, the Federal Reserve banks begin tightening credit by raising discount rates. The New York Fed's discount rate climbs from a historically low 1.5% in May to 3.5% by October.

• 44:51Greg Jackson?

  Britain's departure from the gold standard further convinces Bert that he can't keep cutting taxes and running deficits. Both radical experiments that he's done over the protests of Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon. The president's sure that, next year, he has to balance the budget and that means raising taxes. Again, doing this during a depression might sound crazy to our 21st century ears, but that's not understood yet. Congress hardly flinches at the ask.

• 45:23Greg Jackson?

  Meanwhile, the president is still trying with his volunteerism policies. In August 1931, Bert reorganizes his earlier President's Emergency Committee for Employment into the President's Organization for Unemployment Relief. The intent is to remake this effectively toothless relief coordinating committee into one with more direct control. But newspapers across the country view this largely as just a name change. And well, that's a fair assessment. In October, Bert announces the creation of a voluntary association of banks that, with a pool of $500 million, will serve as a lender of last resort to banks. A supplement to the Fed, if you will. Unfortunately, the banks involved are hyper-conservative with these funds.

• 46:07Greg Jackson?

  The NCC does, as historian William Lucktemberg puts it, and I quote, "next to nothing." The 1930 drought, the Smoot-Hawley tariff, failing domestic banks, Bert's strong preference for volunteerism over direct federal assistance, the chain of international fiscal disasters, the rising of discount rates and taxes. Historians and economists will likely never stop debating the weight of each and how they did or didn't interact with each other to extend or exacerbate the financial woes first made palpable by 1929 stock market crash. But whatever the exact recipe is, it's a powerful cocktail. One that's knocking prohibition-fanied Uncle Sam out and forcing even the famously well-paying Henry Ford to cut wages.

• 46:52Greg Jackson?

  By the end of 1931, 2,300 banks have failed that year alone. With over 8 million out of work, unemployment is over 15%, and it's more struggle to even put a roof over their heads. Many Great War veterans decide they've had enough.

• 47:13Greg Jackson?

  History That Doesn't Suck is sponsored by Quince. Quince makes high-quality staples from premium materials. My wardrobe now has Quince linen shirts for summer, commuter pants for year-round comfort, and of course, my Mongolian cashmere shawl collar cardigan, which is perfect for crisp fall weather. And increasingly, Quince is taking over my wife's wardrobe. Just last night, she opened up her latest order and showed me a beautifully crafted sweater. She was thrilled to see it was every bit as professional and sharp as it looked online. More than that, it's durable yet soft. She was thrilled. Everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because Quince works directly with ethical factories to cut out the middleman. And it's not just clothes.

• 47:58Greg Jackson?

  Fine jewelry, leather bags, hotel-quality bedding, chef-grade cookware, and five-star luggage. Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was History That Doesn't Suck. It's the best way to support the show. History That Doesn't Suck is sponsored by Cash App. Benjamin Franklin usually gets credit for the expression, "A penny saved is a penny earned." What he actually wrote in Poor Richard's Almanac was clunkier. "A penny saved is two pence clear." Either way, the lesson holds up. Getting a teenager to believe it, that's its own historical campaign.

• 48:44Greg Jackson?

  My wife and I have been using Cash App to teach our teenagers how to manage money through the Cash App card for teens aged 13 to 17. It gives them real financial independence while we manage their activity directly from our own account. Every transaction triggers a real-time notification for you to see, empowering your teen to practice independence while giving you peace of mind by keeping track of their spending. It's never too early for your kids to start saving. Small steps today can build strong habits tomorrow. A Benjamin saved is, after all, a hundred bucks. That's a lesson my teenagers understand. Right now, new Cash App customers can earn $10 if they use FAMILY10 in their profile at signup and send $5 to a friend within 14 days.

• 49:30Greg Jackson?

  Terms apply. Download Cash App today and open a managed account for your teen.

• 49:36Speaker 03

  ...services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App's Bank Partners. Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. Cash App Visa Debit Flex Cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC, and the Bancorp Bank, N.A., pursuant to a license from Visa USA, Inc. See terms and conditions for the Sutton Prepaid Card, Sutton Debit Flex Card, and Bancorp Debit Flex Card. Savings provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures.

• 50:10Greg Jackson?

  Entering 1932, President Herbert Hoover signs some milestone legislation, some of which show that the old man of volunteerism is learning some new tricks. Perhaps no piece of legislation more embodies that than the creation of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, or the RFC, that January. Effectively, the RFC gives loans to various financial institutions, including traditional banks, federal land banks, insurance firms, railroads, and more. As author Charles Rappelai puts it, "The RFC represents a 'complete capitulation' from Burt", who himself says of it, "Certainly, the public will not blame the administration if, upon inability of private enterprise to save the situation,

• 50:54Greg Jackson?

  the government should do it." Close quote. It must be humbling for Burt, and yet, the RFC was his idea. Congress passes it with bipartisan support. In the months ahead, the RFC will expand its game, lending to state relief programs and public works projects as well. That will start with the passage of the Emergency Relief Construction Act. In February, Burt signs the Banking Act of 1932, or the First Glass Steagall Act, as it will come to be known. This expands the type of assets upon which Federal Reserve Banks may rely to make loans to its member banks, albeit at a higher interest rate, and allows Reserve Banks to use government securities,

• 51:36Greg Jackson?

  not just gold, to issue Federal Reserve Bank notes. That is, cash money. So basically, Uncle Sam's sticking with his gold standard diet, but now has cheat day once a week. And, as alluded to earlier, Bert signs his Tax-Raising Revenue Act of 1932 that summer. But he also tries to help homeownership through the Federal Home Loan Bank Act. It's a good call. The struggle to maintain or get a home is evident, as the number of Americans counting themselves among the nation's hobo population rises. No one can say where the term originated, but hobos are very much a class and culture unto themselves.

• 52:19Greg Jackson?

  They're typically migrant workers, usually restless white males aged 20 to 50, who get around by riding the rails. While the glory days of hobo life are past, that era ran roughly from 1870 to 1920, the Great Depression is giving the life a resurgence. These days, hobos are often catching rail cars out west with hopes of finding work in mines, lumber camps, or harvesting fields. A willingness to work is important. To quote one unnamed hobo, "Bums loafes and sits. Tramps loafes and walks. But a hobo moves and works, and he's clean." Close quote. But a willingness to work doesn't mean the hobo won't, shall we say, bend the rules

• 53:03Greg Jackson?

  when needed, especially when work isn't to be found. They'll beg, borrow, or steal if required to make a mulligan stew. That's why hobo camps, or jungles, as they're also called, aren't popular with locals. Such jungles are popping up in city parks and vacant lots all over the country, but perhaps none are more noteworthy than the hobo camp at Chicago's Grant Park. Its occupants have a sense of humor. Their tents and scrap wood houses are set up like a city unto itself, with roads like Easy Street and Hard Times Avenue. They even have their own unofficial mayor, Mr. Mike Donovan. And naturally, if you're going to have a mayor, the unofficial town should have a name.

• 53:46Greg Jackson?

  They call it by a new term that the Democratic National Committee's publicity pro, Charles Michelson, has coined for their camps: Hooverville. Oh, and does it catch on. In the South, The Tipton Times reports that, quote, "Hobos in St. Louis created a new addition to that city, known as Hooverville." Close quote. In Oregon, The Klamath News tells its readers about, quote, "Hooverville: The Hobo Town Beyond the Viaduct." Close quote. Yes, a decade and change removed from the war years when "to Hooverize" was a positive expression for saving and economizing. Charles Michelson has successfully made Bert's last name a negative term

• 54:29Greg Jackson?

  for the shanty town so rapidly spreading across the country. But ubiquitous as these Hoovervilles are becoming, no camp of the downtrodden will gain more attention or reflect more poorly on the president than the one filled with Great War veterans and their families in Washington DC.

• 54:48Greg Jackson?

  Now, I don't expect you to remember this. It was brief, but back in episode 156, I mentioned that in 1924, Congress overrode President Calvin Coolidge's veto to pass the World War Adjusted Compensation Act, also known as the Bonus Act, which promised Great War veterans, excluding most commissioned officers, a bonus for their time in the service. In short, it entitled doughboys serving between April 1917 and July 1919 to $1 per day of stateside service and $1.25 per day of overseas service, with the stipulation that, quote, "The amount of the credit of a veteran who performed no overseas service shall not exceed $500, and the amount of the credit of a veteran

• 55:32Greg Jackson?

  who performed any overseas service shall not exceed $625." Close quote. But payday wasn't immediate. It wasn't intended to come until 1945. No wonder some doughboys call it a "tombstone bonus." And yes, if they've passed, their estate will get paid. That said, the Bonus Act did allow the vets to take out loans against this promised payment, starting in 1927. Well, as you can imagine, banks aren't terribly interested in giving such loans in 1932. And yet, many of these veterans desperately need the money. At a meeting of the National Veterans Association in Portland, Oregon, former Sergeant Walter Waters tells the assembled vets his story.

• 56:17Greg Jackson?

  He lost his job and still needs to provide for two children. He tells his fellow doughboy vets that a letter-writing campaign just won't cut it. It's high time for them to demand their bonus in person, to march like the soldiers they are to Washington DC and demand their payments now, when they need it most. Walter is so incensed, he says he'll lead the march himself. Soon, 300 vets are following him across the continent to the Capitol. Traveling by hitchhiking thumb, train, or foot, it takes them about a month to get to DC. And thousands of likewise frustrated veterans swell their ranks all along the way. Arriving in the nation's capital, the doughboy veterans set up camps,

• 56:58Greg Jackson?

  and the best-known is in the city's southeast area called the Anacostia Flats. The vets named this one Camp Bartlett in honor of the landowner allowing them to stay here. Now, you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone calling this camp a Hooverville since its inhabitants are vets here for a specific purpose, as opposed to migrant-working hobos or other classes of the homeless. But the site of these former doughboys tents and shacks are close enough for some, like the Miami News, to describe Hooverville as, "somewhat after the manner of the Anacostia settlement of the Bonus Army." But President Herbert Hoover isn't having it. Paying out these veterans will cost the already-running-a-deficit federal government a fortune.

• 57:43Greg Jackson?

  That won't help balance the budget, which, as we know, Bert believes is what needs to happen for the nation to recover financially. With some of his closest advisers suggesting they meet the Bonus Army with bayonets, Bert answers, "That would almost certainly end in bloodshed." Instead, he sticks to his talking points, stating in a speech that, "The imperative moment has come when the increase in government expenditures must be avoided."

• 58:12Greg Jackson?

  Narrowly, enough of Congress agrees. While the House votes in favor of the bonus bill's proposal to shell out $2.4 billion to the doughboys immediately, the Senate does not. It kills the bonus bill on June 17, 1932. Much of the Bonus Expeditionary Force, a name riffing off of these vets' service in the American Expeditionary Force during the Great War, leaves at this point. But not all of them. After all, what's Congress compared to the horrors of Bello Wood, the Marne, or the Muzargun? These most insistent of former doughboys figure they've lost the battle but not the war. They declare that they're staying until payments come, even if that's in 1945. And that's when things escalate.

• 58:55Greg Jackson?

  In July, President Herbert Hoover says that the veterans have to go home, even if that's by force. It's 4:10 in the afternoon, July 28, 1932. We're in the open, green space of Washington DC's Elips, just south of the White House, where Army Chief of Staff, General Douglas MacArthur, is surveying a several hundred-strong force from the US Army, now preparing to evict Bonus Army vets. It's a tense situation. Just this morning, the police shot and killed two while attempting to evict veterans from buildings along Pennsylvania Avenue. Now, Doug is tasked with driving those former doughboys holding buildings north of the

• 59:39Greg Jackson?

  Anacostia River back to their more southern camp in the Anacostia Flats. With all that attention, Doug turns to Brigadier General Perry L. Miles, the direct commander of these forces. Perry addresses the officers. Gentlemen, the so-called Bonus Marchers are occupying certain government properties in Washington and are successfully resisting efforts by the police to evacuate them. This command has been called upon to clear those properties. You will use such force as is necessary to accomplish your mission. Tear gas will be used. Women and children who may be found in the affected area will be accorded every consideration and kindness. And with that, they prepare to move out.

• 1:00:23Greg Jackson?

  Twenty minutes later, this force is moving down Pennsylvania Avenue. Two hundred carbine-bearing cavalrymen right at the front, their sabers drawn. Behind them roll the trucks carrying five tanks. These are followed by four hundred infantry, and finally, two staff vehicles. Generals Douglas MacArthur and Perry Miles right in one, while Major Dwight D. Eisenhower and Captain Thomas Jefferson Davis are in the other. As they move, locals wonder, is this a show of force alone, or do they mean business? Proceeding down Pennsylvania Avenue to about Third Street, the Army approaches several dilapidated, half-standing, three-to-four-story buildings. Few shacks are here, too.

• 1:01:07Greg Jackson?

  All of these will be razed in the near future, but right now, they're filled with Bonus Army vets. Doug is shocked. He expected a small group of them. Nope. There are thousands here, and worse is the complicated variety of people. As Captain H.W. Blakely will later describe, the street is filled with, quote, "a fantastic mixture of rioters, spectators, shoppers, streetcars, baby carriages, police, infantry, and officers in civilian clothes," close quote. The force is ordered to halt. They fix bayonets. A veteran sees this and shouts at the soldiers, "The last time I saw them bayonets, I was going through the marn." But none of the soldiers laughed.

• 1:01:52Greg Jackson?

  An officer at the center of Pennsylvania Avenue shouts into the shanty town, "You got three minutes to clear out. Three minutes. I warn you." Soldiers start to put on their gas masks. Then, a rock flies. And that's it. Immediately, soldiers hurl gas grenades into the crowd of veterans. The troops then proceed to push the Bonus Marchers southward toward their main camp across the Anacostia River. But as they do, the wind ensures that innocent bystanders and spectators are soon exposed to the gas as well. Amid coughs, shouts, and cries, most of veterans run, but some stand their ground. They throw bricks and rocks at the soldiers, only to be met by cavalrymen who slap at

• 1:02:37Greg Jackson?

  them with the broadsides of their sabers. Gas mask-wearing infantry continue to lob gas grenades, almost carelessly, as tanks roll forward and shacks are set ablaze. Major George S. Patton will later recall the sight from atop his horse. "Bricks flew, sabers rose and fell with a comforting smack, and the mob ran."

• 1:03:01Greg Jackson?

  While the president gave the green light to evict these vets, this is not what he had in mind. Yet, worse comes later that night, as Douglas MacArthur pushes south of the Anacostia River and into the main Bonus Army camp. He does so while refusing to receive messengers from Secretary of War Patrick Hurley, trying to tell the general not to cross the bridge and drive south of the river. Doug does so anyway, and over the protestations of Major Dwight D. Eisenhower. Instead, Doug insists that he must quell what he dubs "an insurrection" and heads south over the bridge. Writing about this later, Bert says that, "I did not wish them driven from their camps. Our military officers, however, having them on the move, pushed them outside the District of Columbia."

• 1:03:47Greg Jackson?

  But neither Douglas MacArthur's assurances that his actions were completely necessary, nor Bert Hoover's insistence that this was not his plan, changed the fact that Washington, DC's hospitals are filled with wounded veterans. While many newspapers are content with the response that communists had taken over the bonus march, on-the-ground reporting isn't as kind. The Washington Daily News writes, "What a pitiful spectacle is that of the great American government, mightiest in the world, chasing unarmed men, women, and children with army tanks." Close quote. Yeah, that hits hard. And it's going to hit Bert even harder politically, as Americans head to the ballot box this November.

• 1:04:32Greg Jackson?

  Things really aren't looking good for Bert's reelection. The gross national product is down to 60 billion from 1931, 75 billion, which is already down from 1929's 105 billion. The Dow Jones Industrial Average has fallen from its pre-crash record high at the start of Bert's presidency, 381.2, all the way down to 41.2. Unemployment has surpassed 20% with over 12 million out of work, which is to say nothing of those who are employed but have seen their wages cut. It's hard to capture the prevailing sentiment better than the Miami News does two months before the election in a September 1932 article, and I quote, "A chicken in every pot was the promise.

• 1:05:16Greg Jackson?

  Hooverville is the performance." Harsh criticism comes for Herbert Hoover, both immediately and through the decades ahead. They include things like his almost endless faith in volunteerism, the Smoot-Hawley tariff, his response to Britain leaving the gold standard with higher taxes and a drive to balance the budget, his handling of the Bonus Army, and of course his shy personality and support of prohibition didn't help. In fact, odd as it may seem to our 21st century ears, so focused on the Great Depression, prohibition costs Bert votes more than any other issue. Yet, much of the criticism that will come after the fact forgets that up until 1932,

• 1:05:59Greg Jackson?

  the nation was largely with Bert, that the era's experts were just as baffled as anyone at this inexplicable depression. It may also be that, for future Americans familiar with the successes of President Franklin D. Roosevelt's later New Deal, it's hard to see just how much Bert did push the boundaries and try new things. As historian David M. Kennedy so succinctly puts it, quote, "His, Hoover's, failure in the face of the depression has obscured his achievement as an activist president who pointed the way to the New Deal. Hoover was no moss-backed conservative in the Harding-Coolidge mold. Long sympathetic to the progressive wing of his party, he had supported labor, urged

• 1:06:41Greg Jackson?

  closer business-government cooperation, established government control over the new technology of radio, and proposed a multi-billion-dollar federal public works fund to offset downswings in the business cycle." Close quote. And indeed, while historian William Lucktenberg is quick to remind us that Bert was quite loath to give up on volunteerism and most certainly should not be seen as a fan of expanding government, it is true that Bert intervened in the economy to an unprecedented degree for a president up to his time, and that he planted some New Deal seeds. As Rex Tugwell of FDR's brain trust will say decades later, "We didn't admit it at the time, but practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started."

• 1:07:25Greg Jackson?

  So did Bert, the great humanitarian, the master of emergencies, simply come up against a catastrophe that no one could have beaten? Was it just bad luck? Well, that'll be his take. But presidents don't have the luxury of excuses, or even legitimate reasons. The nation judges by outcome, period, and after winning the White House by a landslide in 1928, Bert loses it by a landslide in 1932. America now turns to a man who, as governor of New York, has proven a capable executive even in the midst of the Great Depression. A man who exudes the kind of charisma and hope that a nation so desperately craves in these hard times.

• 1:08:07Greg Jackson?

  A man who offers a fresh face but a familiar name. Welcome to the story, President-elect Franklin Delano Roosevelt. History That Doesn't Suck is created and hosted by me, Greg Jackson. Episode researched and written by Greg Jackson and Will Bulldozer Keen. Production by Airship. Sound design by Molly Bock. Theme music composed by Greg Jackson. Arrangement and additional composition by Lindsey Graham of Airship. For bibliography of all primary and secondary sources consulted in writing this episode, visit htdspodcast.com.

• 1:08:46Speaker 04

  Greetings from Breeze Airways, your hometown carrier for non-stop flights from Richmond to Sarasota, Bradenton, and more. Your getaway to Florida's west coast is closer than you think. Breeze makes it easy to snag a getaway with non-stop lights, flexible change policies, and a seriously nice onboard experience. Enjoy premium seating with Breeze Ascent, plus high-speed Wi-Fi and tasty snacks. Book today at flybreeze.com. Breeze Airways, seriously nice. In partnership with Visit Sarasota.

• 1:09:22Greg Jackson?

  HTDS is supported by fans at htdspodcast.com/membership. I gratitude to you kind souls providing funding to help us keep going. Thank you. And a special thanks to our patrons whose monthly gift puts them at producer status. Adam Goran, Ahmed Chapman, Amy and Ross Hensman, Andrew Nissen, Andrew Sherwin, Anna M. Huta, Art Lang, Baby Nico, Bob Stinnet, Bonnie Brooks, Brian Gavigan, Brian Boils, Brian Goodson, Bruce Hibbert, Kayden Hallitz, Charles Plendenin, Charles Starkey, Charlie Majes, Christopher Merchant, Christopher Lyle, Christopher Pullman, Christopher Young, Cody Brown, Colleen Martin, Colin Ferris Pennington, Connor Hogan, Craig Burhost,

• 1:10:02Greg Jackson?

  Dan G., Daniel Beacham, Daniel Lucana, Darren Chambers, Daryl the Kid Lovell, David Rifkin, Dean Heiser, Deronte Spencer, Donald Moore, Eli Edwards, Elizabeth Chris Jansen, Ellen Stewart, Ernesto Franco, Ernie Lomaster, Ethan Lowery, Ethan Thompson, G2303, Jeffrey Nelson, George J. Sherwood, Gareth Griffin, Gina Johnson, Gordon Garwood, Henry Brunges, Holly Hamilton, Jake Gilbreth, James Bledsoe, James Blue, James Schlender, Jarrett Zangora, Jeffrey Moots, Jennifer Minjioni, Jennifer Ruth, Jessica Poppin, Joe Dobis, John Booby, John Frugal Dugal, John Huber, John Messmer, John Oliveros, John Riddleyich, John Schaefer,

• 1:10:43Greg Jackson?

  Jonathan Schaff, Jordan Corbett, Joseph Curry, Joshua Steiner, Julian Wright, Justin Tolman, Karen Bartholomew, Carl Friedman, Carl Romer, Ken Culver, Kim R., Kimberly Pruitt, Kristen Kraft, Kyle Decker, L. Paul Goringer, Laura Norman, Lawrence Newbauer, Linda Cunningham, Mark D. Worrell, Mark Ellis, Marcia Smith, Mason Glenn, Matt Siegel, Michael Longus, Michael Sullivan, Nick Cafrell, Nicholas Powell, Owen W. Sedlak, Paul Huguenroth, Philip May, Randy Keane, Rich Ruckel, Rick Brown, Rob Dravovic, Robert Shelton, Brock Gay, Ryan Fogelman, Sam Holtzman, Sarah Prescott, Sarah Traywood, Scott Hurst, Shane Smith,

• 1:11:23Greg Jackson?

  Shannon Hogland, Sharon Feasen, Sean Baines, Sean Collins, Stacy Ritter, Steve Williams, The Creepy Girl, Thomas Churchill, Thomas Matthew Edwards, Thomas Sabbath, Tim and Sarah Turner, Todd Curran, Tom Bostovka, Travis Cox, Walter M. Ames, Wesley McKee, William Durham, William Curry, William Thompson, and Zach Jackson.

• 1:11:44Greg Jackson?

  Join me in two weeks, or I'd like to tell you a story.