Patience Is Everything: Coach’s Corner with Chris Hauth & Caroline Burckle

Today I am joined by Olympians Chris Hauth and Caroline Burckle for another edition of Coach's Corner – a spin on my typical podcast format where I go deep and get granular on the physical, mental and emotional aspects of sport, fitness, training and lifestyle. A sub-9 hour Ironman, Chris (@AIMPCoach) is the current Age Group Ironman World Champion, a former Olympic Swimmer and one of the world's most respected endurance coaches. In 2006, Chris won the Ironman Coeur D’Alene and went on to be the first American amateur & 4th overall American at the Ironman World Championships in Kona, Hawaii. When he's not training and racing, Chris runs AIMP Coaching, mentoring a wide spectrum of athletes ranging from elite professionals — including Ironman and Western States top finishers, Ultraman winners and Olympic Trials qualifiers — to first time half-marathoners. Whether you are an elite or just starting out, Chris knows how to get the best out of athletes the right way. A friend and mentor as much as a coach, I have been under Chris' tutelage since 2008, during which time he deftly guided me through three Ultraman World Championships ('08, '09 & '11), EPIC5 in 2010 and is currently preparing me for the impending Ötillö Swimrun World Championships in Sweden this September, an event we will race together — literally tethered to each other — as a team. Also joining us today (albeit briefly) is my friend Caroline Burkle (@caroburckle). One of the funnest people you will ever meet, Burks is a former Olympic medalist in swimming from the University of Florida, where she was a 23-time All American swimmer, won 2 individual NCAA titles (200 free & 500 free) and was named 2008 NCAA Female Swimmer of the Year. In addition to breaking the oldest then standing women’s NCAA record in the 500 free (with a blazing 4:33), she earned a Bronze medal in the 4×200 free relay at the 2008 Olympics. Caroline has a Masters of Science in Sports Psychology & Motor Behavior from the University of Tennessee and when she’s not training like crazy, she works with young athletes under RISE Elite Athletes, a company she founded that pairs Olympic athletes with young athletes for mentorship and guidance. Today we sit down for a brief (by the standards of this podcast) check in from Lake Tahoe — site of our recent high altitude training camp — for a state-of-the-union on our preparation for the Ötillö Swimrun World Championsips, just 18 days from the date of this posting. Within the frame of this conversation you also will find a number of helpful fitness, training and general wellness takeaways germane to the listener — whether you are an elite athlete, a weekend warrior or just looking for that nudge to get off the couch. Enjoy! Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Chris Hauth?

  Your whole body is a fine-tuned machine that everything has to work in sync to do the volume that we're talking about. We're not talking about a two-hour workout here. We're talking about six, seven, eight hours at a time at some pretty high intensities. It's a lot on the body, and people underestimate, just because they feel good today and tomorrow, that they're ready during the weekend or whenever, in three, four days, to do it again. And no, it takes longer. Our fitness allows us to overcome things that we really aren't familiar with, and the best way to compensate for that is to be extra fit for it, and extra prepared and also rested.

• 1:45Rich Roll?

  That's Chris Hauth with special guest Caroline Burkle, and this is the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 2:00Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey everybody. My name is Rich Roll. That is my real name. People ask me that all the time. They're like, "Did you adopt some kind of stage name?" No, this is my God-given name, Rich Roll. Been living with it my whole life. In any event, I am your host. Welcome or welcome back to my podcast and another addition of Coach's Corner. This is a little series I started a while back to delve a little bit deeper into the physical, mental, and emotional aspects of sport, fitness, training, and lifestyle with my coach, Chris Hauth, my longtime coach. And what's interesting about this is that I originally thought that

• 2:43Rich Roll?

  these conversations, which can be a bit personal with respect to my specific training and mentorship under Chris, would end up being a bit niche as we get fairly granular on things I thought perhaps the average listener would not be all that interested in or intrigued by. But much to my surprise, these episodes have been quite popular. You seem to really be enjoying them, so I'm going to keep doing them. And that is what today is all about. For those that are new or newer to the show, Chris Hauth is a former Olympic swimmer and world-class triathlete. In 2006, Chris won the Ironman Quarterlane and went on to be the first American amateur and fourth overall American at the Ironman World Championships

• 3:28Rich Roll?

  in Kona. Chris now exclusively runs his coaching program, AIMP, for athletes across the country and around the globe. And it's not just limited to triathletes. He's coached Western States top finishers, Ultraman winners, and plenty of swimmers towards age group nationals and Olympic trials. So whether you're an elite or just starting out, this guy knows what he's talking about, and he gets results, and he gets them the right way. I've been under Chris's wing since 2008, and I can honestly say that I would have never been able to accomplish the things that I have athletically without his coaching mentorship and deft guiding hand.

• 4:08Rich Roll?

  Also joining us today, albeit briefly, is my buddy Caroline Burkle. Besides being a total character, Burks is a former Olympic medalist in swimming and now works as a personal development coach guiding young athletes. She swam at the University of Florida where she was a 23-time All-American and won two individual NCAA titles in the 200 free and the 500 free. She was named the 2008 NCAA Female Swimmer of the Year. She also broke the oldest then-standing women's NCAA record in the 500 free. That must have been held by Janet Evans, I'm not sure, but she swam a 433, which is absolutely insane.

• 4:51Rich Roll?

  And she's also a bronze medalist in the 4x200 free relay at the 2008 Olympics. Caroline then went on to earn a Masters of Science in Sports Psychology and Motor Behavior from the University of Tennessee. And now, when she's not out training like a crazy person, she works in-depth and intimately with young athletes under Rise Elite Athletes, which is a company that she founded that pairs Olympic athletes, a whole battery of Olympic athletes, with young athletes for mentorship and guidance. And I think that's just such a cool, great idea. I certainly wish something like that was available when I was a young athlete. In any event, like I said, she's a total character, super fun, an incredible athlete,

• 5:34Rich Roll?

  and a definite value add to this conversation, again, albeit briefly, but I do intend to bring her back on and have a full podcast episode with her in the near future. In any event, I'll explain the context of this conversation in a second, but first.

• 5:59Rich Roll?

  Okay, so this conversation with Chris and Caroline is a bit on the shorter side compared to my usual conversation, so I thought I'd take the time to share another email from a fan. This is from somebody named Kelly, and Kelly writes, "Rich, I just wanted to email and thank you for the work that you do. I'm sure you get these a lot, but hope you find some of my comments encouraging." My wife and I, her name is Kelly too. Yes, we are Kelly and Kelly. I don't know how that works in your family. That's gotta drive you crazy at times. I can't imagine. In any event, we adopted a plant-based diet about four months ago. We have always been what we thought was healthy, but this has taken things to a new level and it is sustainable. I am exercising not out of need, but because it's fun. Nothing hurts anymore outside of

• 6:43Rich Roll?

  the normal good for your muscle soreness. I'm on the verge of coming up with some crazy goal that I hope fits into being a husband, raising three kids, and running a company. My wife makes fun of me now as I have replaced my man crush on Bobby Flay, the meat grilling guy on the Food Network, with one for Rich Roll. I'm touched. I'm honored. Your podcasts have been a great way for me to think through a number of things. My health impact on my community and the world focus, et cetera. The content is so rich. Sorry to be cheesy with the pun there. No worries. My wife and I were a big part of my wife's brother's story, that's a mouthful, helping him get sober. Your story of how your psychologist

• 7:23Rich Roll?

  gave you the ultimatum has so many parallels to how I handled the last days before he got to rehab. I smiled ear to ear, reading the story and finding Ultra. He lives in a guest house out back now and he's doing amazingly well. Hearing your stories on AA and sobriety have helped us understand his world even better. He's getting there, ongoing plant-based, and soon, we hope. I have a heart for those in recovery with several working for me. I am now to the point where I think the world should follow some form of the 12 steps. I agree with you on that, Kelly. Speaking of my office, since I went plant-based, four others have joined me. So many things to share, but I know your time for reading this is limited. On and on. Thank you, Kelly. That's amazing. Really appreciate you taking

• 8:06Rich Roll?

  the time to reach out and share a bit of your story with me. And I just love that. People get inspired by the content that I put out, but also it's about when they actually make the changes. They implement the knowledge. They do the hard part. That's what inspires me. That's my fuel. And then to see that get passed on to other people and that domino effect occur, I mean, that is just, there's nothing better. So in any event, congrats, Kelly. Keep rocking. Your turn to inspire. Okay. So if you follow me on Instagram or you listened to my most recent episode with Aubrey Marcus, then you know that I was up in Lake Tahoe last week for a brief but productive altitude training

• 8:46Rich Roll?

  camp with both Chris and Caroline in preparation for Odelo, Otillo, this swim run ultra that I'm getting ready to compete in, in just, I think it's gonna be 18 days from the date of posting this podcast. It's essentially an eight or nine hour race, about, I don't know, 40 plus transitions between swimming and running in the archipelago, south of Stockholm, very cold water, tiny island hopping. It's like an adventure race. I'm super excited about it. I'm also intimidated. I'm humbled by the challenge. I'm a little bit afraid. And I don't know, this is a conversation about all of that. The training camp was

• 9:26Rich Roll?

  super fun. It was very, very hard and also quite instructive in terms of helping me acclimate to the level of suffering that I'm soon going to be enduring. In any event, after a full training day last Friday, we all sat down to hash it out. And what follows is the results of that exchange. So we talk about Odelo, the gear challenges. We got all this crazy gear we gotta wear and how do we manage all of that? How do we run in custom wetsuits with our, you know, how do we swim in running shoes? How do we run carrying hand paddles? We talk about the unexpected heat. It was intended to be a cold water acclimation experience, but the water was pretty warm and it was like 80 degrees out

• 10:07Rich Roll?

  in Lake Donner. So we talked about that. We talked about the level of patience required to excel at endurance sports, the benefits of training and entering a race with a partner, a teammate. And we talked to Caroline about training and overtraining and injury and injury prevention. Again, it's a short one, but it's great. And I hope you enjoy the listen.

• 10:35Rich Roll?

  Dude, I'm exhausted.

• 10:38Chris Hauth?

  Yeah, it was a, it was a fun day. It was a learning experience. But the good thing is, is that you went through the same struggles that I did the first time I came up here by myself.

• 10:47Rich Roll?

  Uh huh, that's comforting.

• 10:48Chris Hauth?

  And so I went through the motions. I was alarmed about all the things that you experienced, I experienced the first, experienced the first time and I was worried too.

• 10:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, let's uh, provide a little context. We're up in uh, Lake Tahoe, uh, Donner Lake, to be specific, for a 48 hour training camp. And today, so we're at 6,000 feet of altitude. I can't tell you the last time I've been up in altitude, let alone trained at altitude. And today, we put in an epic day of training of swim run. Uh, it was the first time that we've, we've trained together, except that one other time, but, but the first time that we trained together in the wetsuits, with the running shoes on, with the paddles, with the whole shebang, in uh, what was supposed to be cold water.

• 11:34Chris Hauth?

  Yeah.

• 11:35Rich Roll?

  A little cold acclimation. Uh, and we trained from like, I don't know, 6:30 to 1:30 or something like that. 10 different swim run segments all over Donner Lake.

• 11:46Chris Hauth?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

• 11:47Rich Roll?

  So break it down. What did we do? Do you remember?

• 11:49Chris Hauth?

  Well, we started off with a three mile swim, close to three mile swim across the lake, from one end to the other, basically, almost the full length. And then we ran back to where we started. Then we-

• 11:59Rich Roll?

  Three miles?

• 12:00Chris Hauth?

  Yeah. We did a shorter swim, which was supposed to be a little shorter, but I got lost on time. And next thing you know, it was actually a 35 minute swim versus uh, just a one mile swim. And then we ran once around the lake, which is approximately seven miles. And then it started getting hot.

• 12:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 12:20Chris Hauth?

  That was the first time. And then we threw in another few short swims with a few short runs. And then we finished it up with another long run around the lake.

• 12:30Rich Roll?

  Right. It's about, that was about- Was that five, four? I can't remember how long that final run was.

• 12:36Chris Hauth?

  Oh, it was six miles.

• 12:37Rich Roll?

  Oh, is it six?

• 12:38Chris Hauth?

  Because we swam part of it.

• 12:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 12:40Chris Hauth?

  Right. We swam part of it because we jumped in on that one end, swam to the beach and then jumped out and started running.

• 12:45Rich Roll?

  Right. And we're both wearing these prototype Roka wetsuits that are cut off just above the knee and have full length on the sleeves, zip down the front, which is unusual for a wet suit, have pockets on both,

• 13:01Rich Roll?

  both quads where you can put a little nutrition or whatever you want. And we both had pull buoys strapped to our thighs with surgical tubing. And so this is how we swam with the paddles, with the pull buoys, with the shoes on the whole time, getting out of the water and then running with all this, this gear in what quickly turned into 80 degree weather, running in wetsuits at altitude around Donner Lake. And it was, it started out comical, then it became excruciatingly painful. At least for, at least for me. I know you felt good, but I was chasing your ankles all day long.

• 13:35Chris Hauth?

  Flat, it was black wetsuit. So in that sun, and then you had a swim cap on the whole time.

• 13:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I did.

• 13:41Chris Hauth?

  So that made it extra hot. I finally had to tell you. Take that swim cap off while you're running.

• 13:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah. It was rough, man. I, you know, I've been doing plenty of swim runs in the pool and, you know, and, and doing it in, in hot weather, you know, in Los Angeles, upwards of a hundred, 105. This was a totally different deal. Like at home, I actually feel good running out of the pool. I can easily throw down, you know, 715, 730 pace with a, you know, with a rational heart rate, anywhere between 132 to 140. But today I was struggling to run 830 miles with a heart rate that was just skyrocketing. You know, like in the 160, like I never get my heart rate up that high. It was crazy. So I presume that that is

• 14:27Rich Roll?

  a factor of the 34 mile run that I did like two days ago, the altitude. The heat and running in a wetsuit with all this gear, I'm hoping, but it was it was tough, man. It was definitely eye opening for me and a little bit of an awakening and I'm a little scared.

• 14:43Chris Hauth?

  Yeah, I mean, well, we also shocked the system pretty hard. You just got back from an international trip, time change, sleep and all that. And then we right away threw you into a five hour run, which turned out to be thirty four miles for you. And then forty eight hours later, we're here at altitude. So we've never settled you and given you a time to absorb the load that we've been giving you. So, yeah, I mean, a lot happened today, but I think it was a really good experience for you too. Also to see those numbers, know you can continue, suffer a little bit, which is what we will be doing there. And it's good for the headspace too.

• 15:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah, normally I would not have taken a two week adventure, literally a month out from a huge race like this. But that's just life and I went to Ireland and I was in Portland. And I did my best to try to maintain some semblance of training when I was traveling, but it's not like it is at home, of course. So I came back, you know, lacking some fitness. I mean, maybe absorbing the fitness, the training that I had put in prior to that. But really kind of taking a break in the middle of, you know, what should have been a really intense period of ramping up. So my longest run prior to those trips was about two hours and forty minutes. And normally I would have stepped it up. You always have me step it up like three hours, three and a half, four, four and a half, up to five.

• 16:03Rich Roll?

  But I went from that two and a half hour, came back from my trip and threw down a five hour run. You know, without that kind of buildup, I mean, I can do it, but it's going to rattle me, you know, much more than it would have had I more responsibly, you know, acclimated to that kind of load.

• 16:19Chris Hauth?

  Yeah, and in comparison, for the last few weeks, I have been doing that.

• 16:23Rich Roll?

  Right, you have been doing that.

• 16:24Chris Hauth?

  Right, and I've also had some recovery in between, but I did the three and a half, then the four and a half. And so then the five, two days ago, because we synced up our training plans this week. So that we come in exactly with the same load, same training and so on, so that we could mimic everything here just right. And, yeah, I, you know, it's a different process for me.

• 16:46Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 16:47Chris Hauth?

  And, you know, also out of fairness, I've been doing this for years now, long runs. And you're sort of building into this realm. I mean, when's the last time you did a thirty four mile run?

• 16:57Rich Roll?

  Oh, man, I mean, I don't even know. I was having some like nickels and stuff. ramping up to Ultraman 2011 and running was challenging for me. So I don't even know if I put in like a 40 mile run prior to that race. So I think it's been 2009 was the last time I put in like big time runs.

• 17:14Chris Hauth?

  Yeah, you might have a recovery week next week.

• 17:17Rich Roll?

  I know.

• 17:17Chris Hauth?

  Just absorb this shock to the system that we just did.

• 17:20Rich Roll?

  We're three weeks out. A couple of observations on today. The first thing is I thought the whole pull buoy strapped to the quad thing was going to be a pain in the butt and get in the way and just be annoying. But actually, it was no big deal. Totally comfortable with that. And the idea of swimming with shoes and then running in wet shoes with socks, I was concerned about that. But we both found shoes that seemed to work well with our feet. And that didn't bother me at all. I was surprised about that. The thing I think I was most surprised beyond what I already said, just, you know, being it being as difficult as it was today, was how hot I was getting like the the rubber on this wet suit, especially around the quads is super thick and it was a hot day

• 18:03Rich Roll?

  out. And it's unbelievable how overheated you get running. It's like, who runs in a wet suit? Nobody does that. It's like, that's what wrestlers do to lose weight, to make weight. You know what I mean?

• 18:13Chris Hauth?

  I was thinking that a few times today as we were running around the lake. Some of those people must have been looking at us. Are those guys trying to lose weight or something?

• 18:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's funny. There's a loop around Donner Lake, and this is high season. There's a lot of people here on vacation, etc. People are out paddle, you know, on their paddle boards and boating and running and biking and all that kind of stuff. And here's two guys running down the street in wet suits, holding, holding bright orange hand paddles in their hands while they're running.

• 18:41Chris Hauth?

  With a pull buoy strapped to their leg.

• 18:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, a pull buoy strapped, and I'm wearing a swim cap, you know, brightly. It's like, I thought we'd get a lot more like strange looks than we did. And people are like, whatever, I guess. You know, maybe that's just the vibe out here in Truckee, but.

• 18:54Chris Hauth?

  Yeah, now they're used to seeing a lot of triathletes up here from the years of the Ironman up here. And so, a lot of people asked me today, probably about six, are you guys training for a triathlon? And so I said, no, actually, we're doing something a little different. So.

• 19:08Rich Roll?

  So what do we have left? Like, what do you, what's your takeaway from today? What do we have to work on still? I thought we had like pretty good communication. I was disappointed that I wasn't able to hold pace with you, at least on the swimming. And you know, maybe that's just, you know, for the reasons we've already stated, but overall, I feel like our communication is good, like we're in sync. I just have to bridge that gap a little bit more, I think, over the next three weeks.

• 19:33Chris Hauth?

  Yeah, and I'm not really too worried about your fitness come the day because we just need it that day. We didn't need it today. The good communication, yeah, and I think we also have a good unspoken language of knowing that when you need something or when you don't. And no, that worked well today. I would say the thing that we both noticed was the hand paddles too, how much harder it is getting back in.

• 19:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 19:59Chris Hauth?

  And then using those muscles after just having swum a lot. Of course, we stacked our day a little bit differently. Nobody's going to be doing a three mile swim to start Otilo.

• 20:09Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 20:09Chris Hauth?

  Right? That's what we basically did half the distance, right, to start off of the full Otilo distance. So, but still, it is eye opening how you have to be aware of that. And then I think the other thing we'll want to pay more attention to is our transitions. They were somewhat slow.

• 20:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 20:27Chris Hauth?

  And these were easy transitions.

• 20:29Rich Roll?

  I took my cap off and then how am I supposed to put my cap on? And I'm holding these hand paddles and like trying to get my goggles on, you know, I was like, that's a mess.

• 20:36Chris Hauth?

  Well, we have to just figure, I mean, with that many transitions, a minute here and there will quickly turn into an hour.

• 20:43Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 20:44Chris Hauth?

  Because that, that time just adds up so often, so much. And then, other than that though, it went pretty smoothly. I mean, I know we're both praying for that cold water. Although I know come race day, we're not going to be praying for it.

• 20:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah, not that cold.

• 21:00Chris Hauth?

  Yeah, exactly. And, yeah, but there's just the learning of today and then applying it specifically for these next three weeks to really incorporate those last details that we'll need.

• 21:12Rich Roll?

  One of the questions that always comes up that people are asking me is like, how are you fueling these workouts? Like, what are you eating? And I don't often respond to those because it's kind of a boring answer. Like, I don't overthink it too much. I mean, we woke up at 5:30. I had a bowl of cereal. And what, you know, what did you, you had, I think you had the same.

• 21:31Chris Hauth?

  Yeah.

• 21:32Rich Roll?

  I ate a banana.

• 21:33Chris Hauth?

  Me too.

• 21:33Rich Roll?

  I had a cup of coffee. And then we went. And then we had some little bars that we chewed on at a couple of the transitions. And we made sure that we were drinking water. We used your pickup truck as kind of a home base, where we had some nutrition products there. But it wasn't like we were carrying, like, I wasn't carrying nutrition with me or anything like that. Like, we kept it pretty minimal. I don't think we.

• 21:55Chris Hauth?

  Yeah, we gapped it pretty well. And I thought, I think we also gapped it well enough in comparison to the race. Because there, it's going to be 45 to 60 minutes between those energy stations. And so I want us to be ready to just go that long and feel a little bit of hunger and know what to grab and be prepared as we're going into that. I mean, that's the things, those are the little details where we as a team working together, it's going to be real effective. Because we'll be able to communicate, say what we want, know what we're kind of calories, what we're looking for going into each aid station, energy station, and then come out of it pretty efficiently. The minutes we're spending putting on caps at transitions, we might make up in those aid stations.

• 22:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Hunter McIntyre was the person who told me, he's like, you just got to keep moving.

• 22:42Chris Hauth?

  Yeah.

• 22:42Rich Roll?

  Like, just keep moving. Because I think the, you're right, the transitions, I think, are where people are stopping, or you're looking for your partner, or you get spaced out from that person. And there's a lot of pausing and looking around and fiddling around with your gear. And like you said, that stuff adds up. So minimizing that, I think is going to be key. I'm a little worried about that.

• 23:02Chris Hauth?

  Yeah, I mean, we'll be fine. We'll be fine. And that's the fun thing, too. As a team, I can help you through that logistics time, right? Like, Rich, are we thinking of this? Are we doing this? We're just constantly communicating. And that'll be important with those shorter distances, 300 meter swim, 500 meter run, like that we're talking, you know? And. That we know what's coming up ahead, not that we know the distances or what island it is.

• 23:27Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 23:27Chris Hauth?

  But that we know what we're getting ourselves. All right, we got a short swim here. Let's really try to stretch it out, push a little bit and then recover on that next longer island. Or we're in hour three right now. We still want to hold back here a little bit. Nutrition fueling is going well. We're well hydrated. Our strategy is X and therefore this is what we're going to do for the next forty five minutes. No matter what the terrain or the water brings, because we just want to manage our energy levels pretty efficiently. Through the day so that we can do things faster when we're able to. When the road opens up, when the terrain allows it for us, like you and I bushwhacking like it will be. That's not our strength. That's where we need to get through it efficiently and not using a lot of energy.

• 24:12Chris Hauth?

  But then when the road opens up and we have some pavement or flatter trails or steady effort. Then we can start pushing a little bit deeper.

• 24:20Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. So we've been breaking open like the, the, looking at the website and all the requirements and all the stuff we got to get like we got to get. We have, do we each have to carry a first aid pack?

• 24:30Chris Hauth?

  Um, I think as a team, the first aid pack, but we each have a whistle.

• 24:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, we have to carry a whistle. We put that around our neck, right?

• 24:38Chris Hauth?

  Yeah.

• 24:38Rich Roll?

  And that's, what if you get into trouble? That's the idea?

• 24:41Chris Hauth?

  For the safety of the, the, the swim vessels that will come and help you.

• 24:46Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 24:46Chris Hauth?

  And it's nothing guaranteed, but it just helps. And they, I mean, remember the history of this race. You used to have to carry so much safety equipment. Keep in mind, when they started this race. You had to swim with a life vest, like the full ones that you used to have on a boat. Right? And then you had to, you could barely swim because your arms are just sticking out the side. And it would take the swimmer's part of the race out of it because nobody can swim fast in that. Um, and so they've reduced the safety gear over the years to, um, that whistle, that first aid kit. And then a compass.

• 25:22Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. Yeah, the compass. That's the best thing. We were joking the other day at dinner like. I don't even know what like, what would I even do with this? Like, how is this going to help me? Like, I have zero.

• 25:31Chris Hauth?

  What do I do? With the compass.

• 25:33Rich Roll?

  Which ways north? Like, I don't know what direction I'm going.

• 25:36Chris Hauth?

  Yeah.

• 25:36Rich Roll?

  You know, if I have to break out the compass, I got bigger problems.

• 25:39Chris Hauth?

  Yeah. Well, how about we'll just stay in one place and wait till another team.

• 25:43Rich Roll?

  I'll just blow the whistle really loud until somebody comes. That's, that's my plan.

• 25:47Chris Hauth?

  Yeah.

• 25:48Rich Roll?

  So, uh, all right. So we got three weeks left. What are the, what's this window gonna look like?

• 25:53Chris Hauth?

  We'll start pulling back here pretty quickly. I mean, we definitely need to recover from this week. This was a big week and it's good to just have felt that fatigue and working our way through it the way we did. I mean, going through the difficulties of a steady five hour day, five and a half hour day like today is important because it just puts you back into that mindset of just keep trucking, right? Let just keep moving forward. Don't overanalyze the pace. Don't overanalyze the heart rate. Just keep moving forward, right? You start doing a little bit of self-talk. And there's times today where on that, for a reason, I ran ahead of you because I wanted you to reacquaint yourself with that. And, and that's what we'll need where you just sort of have that silent communication of saying, you know what?

• 26:38Chris Hauth?

  We'll just give him his space and his quiet time.

• 26:41Rich Roll?

  You're running ahead and then all, all that means is I start looking at my watch and I start looking at my heart rate and my pace. I start like flogging myself.

• 26:50Chris Hauth?

  Yeah.

• 26:50Rich Roll?

  But, um, no, that's good. I mean, yeah, obviously we've got to absorb this training and then, you know.

• 26:55Chris Hauth?

  Then we're two weeks out.

• 26:57Rich Roll?

  And we gotta do a little refining on the speed stuff, I would imagine, and maybe work on some of the logistics around transitions and some of the technique stuff.

• 27:05Chris Hauth?

  Well, there, we'll be doing some transition stuff, some trail stuff too. I'd like to get us a little bit more familiar with the bushwhacking aspect, which I've done some research, but I just want us to get even more unfamiliar with it. And I say unfamiliar because it's something that you can't really prepare for that terrain over in Sweden, but at least that we've done some running through that and see what that's going to be like. I mean, that's just going off trail, basically for us.

• 27:33Rich Roll?

  So today we weren't wearing compression socks and like I said earlier, our, our wetsuits just were capped above the knee. But with all the, you know, brambles and all the kind of stuff that we're going to encounter, it's been advised that we wear some form of compression stock just so you're not getting yourself all scratched up. And I think they even have products that are like buoyant shin guards or whatever for extra buoyant. Like there's all kinds of, you can go down the rabbit hole on all this kind of thing.

• 27:57Chris Hauth?

  And that's, I mean, that's overall the big picture strategy and it's been it from the very beginning, that our fitness allows us to overcome things that we really aren't familiar with, with this race, right? Of course, we could do it this year and then try to go back next year where we have some familiarity and then you get more specific with it. But because we don't know the race, the best way to compensate for that, besides ask friends and get more input, is to be extra fit for it, right? And extra prepared and, and for us also rested. Like, we don't want to waste fitness, leave fitness up on a, on a Malibu Canyon run instead of in Sweden.

• 28:35Rich Roll?

  Right. Yeah, I think if we have a strength, it is that endurance base, you know, putting in those huge days and the weakness is, you know, unfamiliarity with the terrain and what this race is all about and just inexperience with this kind of event overall.

• 28:49Chris Hauth?

  Yeah, yeah. But I mean, that's part of the fun, right? We're, we're doing it as a team and.

• 28:54Rich Roll?

  And like we said from the beginning, we're doing this for fun, you guys. Like this is, we're not winning this. I mean, like, we're competitive people. We're, we're going to try to, you know, do the best that we can and like be in the hunt and all that kind of good stuff. But, you know, we're not delusional and, you know, had, had this performance go like, had that been my, you know, on my radar, like, I wouldn't have gone to Ireland. I wouldn't have done these, I would have, I would have had a different kind of focus going into this, but that's not my life right now. And, you know, it's cool. Like I said on Instagram and then you, you chastise me because I was, because it's like, this is a team thing, you know? So my primary motivator is, yeah, I want to do well, but I don't want to let you down. You know, our, our, our destinies are inextricably tethered to each other.

• 29:36Chris Hauth?

  Well, and that brings up a good point. It's, um. The motivation that you've had over the last six months has been helped knowing that you're working with a teammate, right? And it's in a lot of cases with a lot of people listening, or just in general with health and fitness, is it's hard by yourself. But if you have somebody that you're not necessarily accountable to, but that you're looking forward to doing this with, it might be a really good thing for everybody just to consider, what do I need to get myself motivated to train more consistently? Maybe an event with a partner, or a challenge with a partner? Because it does help. And as you've probably seen the last few months, whether in Ireland, or as you've been traveling,

• 30:18Chris Hauth?

  or just getting up on some of those hard mornings, where it's like, I gotta do this. I love to do it for myself, but there's a little extra, you know, with that, hey, I'm racing with somebody, and I want to do well with them, for them as a team.

• 30:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 30:35Rich Roll?

  I'm excited. I'm a little bit scared after today.

• 30:39Chris Hauth?

  As we should be.

• 30:40Rich Roll?

  I think it's ramping up my, my attention, like my sort of focus on what needs to be done between now and then.

• 30:46Chris Hauth?

  Yeah. And, and back to what you said with regards to us not winning. I think in a lot of sports, it's somewhat, for lack of a better term, disrespectful for us to think that we can just train for nine months and come in there and something we've never done. And these people have been training for years.

• 31:05Rich Roll?

  Right. And on this circuit. There's a whole circuit. These guys are doing these races all the time. They know exactly what, how this stuff works.

• 31:12Chris Hauth?

  And so for us to say, oh, we want to get top three, or top five, or whatever the number is, I think is not fair to the sport either. We want to make a good showing. We want to represent ourselves. We want to have fun. That's the key thing too. And, you know, just have a great day in a great location at a great adventure. I mean, that's the, that's the ideal.

• 31:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's a very good point. And it has, it has been fun. I mean, I think it's been a refreshing, you know, reprieve from the grind of triathlon, or just ultra running, because it is so adventure based. Like, we're, we're cracking up on the, we have. Over here, Caroline Burkle, I'm gonna bring you on to the mic in a second. But we were laughing so hard this morning on the dock, like you put your wet suit on backwards first. And I'm like, how do I put this pull buoy thing on? It's like a comedy of errors. Like, we're just trying to figure out, like, how do we do this? You know, it's like, and we're three weeks out. It's like, yeah, we should have probably done this several months ago or done one of these camps like every month leading up to this to be responsibly prepared.

• 32:13Chris Hauth?

  But our life doesn't allow that. Yeah. It is what it is.

• 32:15Rich Roll?

  And there's this, there is a, um, there's something cool about just kind of letting all that go and just being like, it is for fun.

• 32:22Chris Hauth?

  And, but keep in mind, all this, we've gotten through it healthy. We're not injured, right? I mean, that's the hardest part. If you get too tense with this and too focused on a lot of this stuff, especially ultra endurance stuff. This is an eight to nine hour, 10 hour, 11 hour event. You can quickly push yourselves to something that you're not familiar with, that you're getting injured.

• 32:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 32:45Chris Hauth?

  And that's our goal. We wanted to come into this fit, somewhat ready, right? Have fun and be ready to give it our best on a, on a challenging, hard course. I mean, this place is notorious for being really hard.

• 32:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 33:00Chris Hauth?

  Even the locals say, I mean, that whole Archibolego out there supposedly is just bizarre. I mean, there's, it's just really tough, exposed, different. And we're just gonna swim and run across it.

• 33:12Rich Roll?

  Right. So it's, it's called Uto, I think is the town. And when we arrive, um, the day is it?

• 33:18Chris Hauth?

  Before.

• 33:19Rich Roll?

  Day before the race, we take a ferry to this island. It's an island. Yeah.

• 33:24Chris Hauth?

  The furthest one, where we're starting, yeah.

• 33:26Rich Roll?

  And then all the, all the competitors and everybody associated with the race camps out there. And we're in like tents or something like that. Like, I still don't even know.

• 33:34Chris Hauth?

  We're roughing it.

• 33:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 33:35Chris Hauth?

  We have a certain feed time for dinner.

• 33:38Rich Roll?

  Right. And then it's a 4 a.m. wake up call and then we do it. But we're, we're sequestered. It's not like we're starting in Stockholm or something like that. Like, we're just, we're out there in the middle of nowhere for this thing.

• 33:49Chris Hauth?

  Yeah, we're gonna meet a bunch of great competitors and people. And it's, I mean, that's just all so unique and it's a different adventure, every piece of it. Like, can you imagine at an Ironman or an ultra, taking every competitor and sequestering them for, you know, 24 hours prior to the race? People will be freaking out.

• 34:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 34:16Rich Roll?

  Speaking of injuries, Burkle, get on the mic here for a second. Here, slide that over to her for a minute. So we have Caroline Burkle here, who is a former Olympian in swimming.

• 34:29Caroline Burckle?

  Hey, guys.

• 34:30Rich Roll?

  Swam for the University of Florida. And she had the best intentions of competing at Utlele.

• 34:36Caroline Burckle?

  Utlele.

• 34:38Rich Roll?

  Utlele. With, I'm gonna get excoriated for not saying it right.

• 34:42Caroline Burckle?

  We need to figure this out.

• 34:43Rich Roll?

  I'm trying really hard, you guys, I really am. Caroline was gonna be competing with Hilary Biscay, a former podcast guest, Ultraman World Champion. But due to, well Caroline got an injury. You have a serious bone fracture in your heel.

• 34:58Caroline Burckle?

  Yeah.

• 34:59Rich Roll?

  So that opted you out.

• 35:01Caroline Burckle?

  It was the first time I heard the word calcaneus in my life. And it's a joke, but yeah, calcaneal stress factor.

• 35:08Rich Roll?

  You showed me the x-ray. It's for real.

• 35:11Caroline Burckle?

  Yeah, it's pretty gnarly. And I didn't know about it until about six weeks after I did it, apparently. So I kept pushing it and running on it.

• 35:21Rich Roll?

  Making it worse.

• 35:21Caroline Burckle?

  Which you just touched on, you know, not being injured and being healthy and going through something. This has been the biggest learning lesson for me. Just going through something and knowing now how to train versus not logging stuff, not paying attention, just running miles in the mountains without paying attention.

• 35:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, one of the things that Chris is really good about is tempering that desire to ramp up too quickly and being very diligent and erring on the side of less is more in terms of ramping up the running in particular to avoid just these very scenarios.

• 35:55Caroline Burckle?

  Well, and it's important to, I mean, obviously, none of us have done a race like this, but it's important when you're in a position of endurance training that you're keeping your strength in these little places of your body that you don't even realize that you need strength in. So I've learned the importance of your feet throughout this process. So I'm like doing towel grabs and like golf ball grabs with my toes and things like that. Before I would have laughed and scoffed at that and now it's... It's so important and so never underestimate the power.

• 36:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it was, it was a bummer because we had this whole plan. We were going to be all these crazy Americans going over to, you know, meet this race head on. It was going to be you and Hillary and then Hunter McIntyre was partnering up with your friend.

• 36:39Caroline Burckle?

  Rory.

• 36:39Rich Roll?

  Rory, right? And then that's not happening either. So now it's just Chris and I.

• 36:43Caroline Burckle?

  Injured, so.

• 36:45Rich Roll?

  Now it's just Chris and I.

• 36:46Caroline Burckle?

  The Americans are dwindling down.

• 36:48Rich Roll?

  Is been, you know, diminished.

• 36:50Caroline Burckle?

  But look, in all seriousness, like you guys, you've said it so many times in this podcast and I've so far and I've wanted to say something, but I was really trying to be quiet over here in the corner. However, you guys, you know, you nailed it with just not knowing sometimes is best. You may not know the terrain. You may not know the race. And sometimes I feel like going into something with a little bit more of a naive attitude. It's like think like a child, childlike mind. Like when you go into it with an idea and you have a plan and you know you're fit and like you said, you have your fitness. It's fun. Like sometimes you can overthink when you have so much that you're supposed to be knowing and memorizing and all this. And I think that the whole fun of it will be like, where are we going? What's going on? Let's talk during this 500 meter dash across.

• 37:34Rich Roll?

  No, there's something beautiful about that. You know, it, it, it provides that space for just like fun and, and joy. Like I remember the first time I did Ultraman, like my crew is my dad, you know, I'm like this other buddy of mine who had no, like, it was like, it's over Thanksgiving weekends. It was really hard to find people to help you out because everybody has plans. And I got this ragtag crew of buddies and my dad to come out and they like, we didn't know anything, you know, but that made it super fun, you know? So I sort of look at this and, you know, through a similar lens.

• 38:03Caroline Burckle?

  And yeah, and you remember that the most. I mean, sure, other races are awesome and, you know, you've got it all going on, but you remember the ones the most that are just like, well, here we go.

• 38:13Rich Roll?

  And it's cool that even though you have this injury, I mean, you've been walking around in a boot, you're not in the boot anymore, but that you were just game to come up to Tahoe for the weekend, even though you can't run to like do the swim and just kind of hang out.

• 38:24Caroline Burckle?

  Yeah. I mean, you know, I took swimming for granted forever. When I retired from pool swimming and professional swimming, I hated it for so long. And now I. Absolutely will never again take it for granted just because it is something that no impact for the rest of your life. If you can do it, it's incredible. And there's nothing like a swimming high when you just are done swimming. Even today, that three miles across. I mean, that transition was pretty quick afterwards, guys.

• 38:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 38:52Caroline Burckle?

  But, you know, we're all talking and having fun. That was sarcasm, by the way. We're all talking, having fun. And I was just like, you know, you all went off on your run and I'm standing there at my car. And I was like, that was unbelievable.

• 39:01Rich Roll?

  That's super cool.

• 39:02Caroline Burckle?

  We just crushed, you know, three miles at six, seven AM and it felt like 20 seconds of time that just.

• 39:09Chris Hauth?

  Although looking over and seeing you backstroke was not fun.

• 39:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know. Let's be clear. Caroline was way out front. Yeah, like just for the record, she's way ahead of us. And then she'd roll onto her back and fix her goggles. And I'm like back there going, oh, my God.

• 39:25Caroline Burckle?

  I looked, I was doing backstroke at one point and I see you pop your head up and just like start shaking your head at me. I was like, timeout, you all have shoes on and a buoy. And I did not. I was totally shoeless. So technically I had an advantage. You guys were crushing it.

• 39:39Rich Roll?

  Ridiculously fit. Are you one of those people that just never retired and you just stayed fit after your swimming career?

• 39:45Caroline Burckle?

  I took a week off. I took a week off. And I think I did Pilates during that week. After that, I was like, all right, I signed up for like three Ragnar realises in a span of six months. And I was like, let's do this. I was lifting every single day still. Well, every other day. But I mean, that, but then again, you know, we can go on a whole nother topic with that. But maybe a little time off was needed in this, this injury of six to eight weeks. No, it's, I mean, six to eight weeks in the boot, but it's been about 12 since I have run at all, stepped foot even in that direction. But um, I think my adrenals are finally repaired, you know, and sometimes it, you have got to listen to your body.

• 40:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I want.

• 40:22Caroline Burckle?

  This is a sign.

• 40:22Rich Roll?

  I, I, I want to do like a whole podcast with you because I want to get like your whole story because it's super interesting. Um, that's not today, but I do want you to tell that story that you told the other last night about the adrenal fatigue.

• 40:36Caroline Burckle?

  Yeah. Yeah, it's, there's a lot to it.

• 40:39Rich Roll?

  So with, but with the waking up in the middle of the night with the sweats and all that.

• 40:42Caroline Burckle?

  Night sweats, just drenched. I don't think I went a night without it.

• 40:43Rich Roll?

  So like your whole swimming career, waking up in, in the night with night sweats.

• 40:47Caroline Burckle?

  I mean, I have photos of my bed sheets just drenched and I would send them to, we'd send them into the doctor's and I mean, I'm not sitting here, no, I don't want anybody to pity me or anything. It was just one of those things that's alarming and you don't know, but you gotta keep going. You don't have a choice. You don't have a choice. You gotta keep going. I mean, I guess I did have a choice. I could have said no, but I don't think Greg Troy would have been super stoked with me.

• 41:07Rich Roll?

  Clearly it's an indication of adrenal fatigue.

• 41:09Caroline Burckle?

  100%.

• 41:10Rich Roll?

  But you may not even feel tired. Like if that's happening even in your, you feel good. Like I'm not overtrained, you know, but it's so deep because it's years and years and years without, you know, taking the requisite, you know, rest weeks or those down periods that allow your, like your, your base to like reset so that you can, you know, have longevity in your career.

• 41:31Caroline Burckle?

  And then learning how to feel yourself properly to repair those adrenals is huge.

• 41:36Rich Roll?

  And so having the stress fracture, you said, correct me if I'm wrong, but you said the other night, like just the other day was like the first night that you didn't wake up with, with bed sweats and like as long as you can remember.

• 41:47Caroline Burckle?

  Yeah, about two weeks ago, I called my doctor and said, oh my gosh, you know, and he's an herbal, you know, he's, he's an unbelievable naturopath. And I was just like, I can't believe it. I just woke up without sweating for like three, four nights in a row. And it was weird. Like I, I noticed that I woke up without it and it, it was exciting, but then of course, you know, you have that athlete mind where you're like, well, that means I'm not training.

• 42:15Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 42:16Caroline Burckle?

  But then I had to call, you have to calm yourself back down and say, this is in two months, this is going to be, this is going to pay off. Like I think.

• 42:24Rich Roll?

  It might be the best thing that ever happened to you.

• 42:26Caroline Burckle?

  Ever. 100%.

• 42:27Rich Roll?

  You would, you're the kind of person who would have just dug your grave and just, you know, grinded until like your body just caved in completely.

• 42:34Caroline Burckle?

  If I would have gone one more week on my heel, it would have broken all the way through and I would have had six pins in it.

• 42:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I mean, like the, the image, I mean, it's, it is like cracked in half, your heel. Like, and that's just from, that's insane.

• 42:46Caroline Burckle?

  Yeah. So, and you know, you, I, I thought I knew my body and I'm. Honor that and I always have told myself, oh, you are so in tune with your body. And now this is humbling for me to take a step back and be like, maybe I'm not. Maybe, maybe I need to be real with myself. And I think we all have a reminder in that. And it, your body changes every year and you know, I'm not 20 anymore.

• 43:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And if you take that seriously, then, then you'll be able to go to a whole different level. I think and you'll have much more longevity and you'll be healthier and you'll just be able to compete with, you know, joy and without that kind of fatigue, like who, you know, I mean, we're from different eras, but you know, Chris and I will both tell you like I, I was, I sleptwalked through my, you know, teens and twenties. Like I didn't even know what was going on, you know, so exhausted all the time.

• 43:37Caroline Burckle?

  Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I, I think I lost 15 pounds when I was done swimming. I didn't know how to do anything for my body. All I was doing was cardio, no strength training, wasn't eating properly, wasn't sleeping. And I don't think even a year ago, I could have made that three mile swim without stopping 10 times and wanting to die. And today it was just like, it felt incredible, you know, and I, I, it was, it's, there's just something that, you know, and of course, like three miles, eight years ago would be a laughing stock when we're doing that for a warm up. But now it's like, yeah, you know, when you're in open water and you're just, you just feel incredible. So, and it's no easy feat. So yeah, I think that, and also it's taught me a lot.

• 44:18Caroline Burckle?

  We, when we're working with our teen athletes and, and working with them on injuries or overcoming things like that, like, I have a whole new respect and a whole new understanding. So it helps me do what I do better. And able to impact that generation to slow down, be patient, listen to your body and learn how to listen to your body. Cause you know, there's so many distractions now.

• 44:42Chris Hauth?

  I mean, because.

• 44:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, here. So give it back to Chris. Back, Mike. Slide it back here. No, no, no, because I want to. This is it's a natural segue anyway, because.

• 44:49Chris Hauth?

  But it's an it's a it's hard to learn the signals like we learned the signals in swimming over so many years, what to look for. Like, for example, with your heel, that's not really something that you would have noticed because that's not an injury you would never get swimming. So we also it takes a while to learn the different aspects of listening to your body. And it's it's very complicated. And it's not a perfect science either. Many people will give you different inputs of what different things mean. I mean, night sweats, you can ask 10 doctors, they'll give you five different answers. So and if from anything from nutrition to overtraining to, you know, chronic fatigue, even going that far into the into the hole.

• 45:33Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. So in you in the course of your coaching, I mean, triathletes tend to be well healed, type A, highly driven personalities. And talking them down off that cliff has got to be a challenge when they want to just gun running gun.

• 45:49Chris Hauth?

  Yeah, on the one hand, I don't work with a lot of athletes that aren't willing to understand that. And that means I turn down or after some time, some athletes just aren't willing to do that and we don't work together anymore. But I always quote to them that if you're thinking about getting fit, that'll be the easy part. Like, I can get you fit. Just be patient, we'll get you really fit, fitter than you've ever been before. But if we try to jump the gun on this, your fitness is it's never going to materialize, right? We're going to be in four weeks from now, you're either going to be off the program, not logging your workouts because you feel guilty that you're not logging your workouts, right?

• 46:31Chris Hauth?

  And you're injured or you're too tired or you can't make it fit. And we talked about this last night. It's like making it all balance as a master's athlete with work and family and life. You just have to be patient because the fitness is building. And again, to what Carolyn just said, is that's so many years of swimming and so on, that that won't go away. Like, you think four or five months, right? Well, oh, my God, like.

• 46:57Rich Roll?

  It's gone forever.

• 46:58Chris Hauth?

  Right, two weeks when we took off two weeks, once a year, swimming in Germany, it was like.

• 47:03Rich Roll?

  It's over.

• 47:03Chris Hauth?

  Oh, my God, like, I'm going to need a six month rebuild. Like, you're like, what? No, but. It's so deep in your system and sort of what I was alluding to before. You took five years of lighter training and it took you only six months to get back to pretty good fitness that you can walk in or walk out the door and run thirty four miles with no real proper buildup. Now, we do have to be careful now the next few days that we don't. This is where the niggles show up in ten days. What you did on Tuesday, if we're not smart, something will creep up and then you'll be really bummed right ten days behind. So we really got to be careful with this window.

• 47:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, because this is not the normal protocol. We would have built up much more responsibly. So they say you can't cram for an event. So there's a little bit of a cram here that ordinarily would not be the program. But in my experience of working with you, one thing that you always do is you just you wait way longer than even I knowing you and knowing how you work, like, okay, I'm ready. You know, like, I'm ready to come on. When is the hard work? Like, I'm ready for the harder workouts. No, no, no. Not yet. You know, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta train to train and then you gotta train to train and then you gotta train and then you train, you know. But if you jump that gun, like, you just see it all the time. People are getting injured.

• 48:25Chris Hauth?

  Injured?

• 48:25Rich Roll?

  Because the lungs and the cardio, like, that comes along quick. And then you're like, I'm, I'm good. I'm ready to, I'm ready to go.

• 48:31Chris Hauth?

  Yeah, but your whole body is a fine tuned machine that everything has to work in sync to do the volume that we're talking about. We're not talking about a two hour workout here. We're talking about six, seven, eight hours, you know, at a time at some pretty high intensities if we're getting ready for a triathlon or, you know, this type of stuff. I mean, it's, it's, it's a lot on the body and people underestimate just because they feel good today and tomorrow that they're ready on during the weekend or whenever in three, four days to do it again. And no, it takes longer. It takes longer.

• 49:06Rich Roll?

  Patience, you know, most, most, I mean, patience in the context of years, right?

• 49:12Chris Hauth?

  That's why it's endurance sports. It's a natural filter. If you don't have the patience, the best athletes will not be able to materialize. If you're patient and you will get fit and it will blossom more than you ever thought it would be. I mean, some of the signs that I always talk about with regards to fitness is when you finish a half Ironman or an Ironman and you recover in 10 to 12 days and you're excited to train again and you're ready to go, that's a sign of fitness, right? Not that I'm going to let them train right away, but they're that quickly recovered. They're not sore for weeks or they're not, not, um, low energy for weeks. They're not walking around and needing

• 49:52Chris Hauth?

  sleep and so on for weeks. They're just popping right back and that's real deep fitness.

• 49:58Caroline Burckle?

  It's the awareness.

• 50:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the awareness. That's right. So, right before this little jaunt up here, you were in Boulder and you were at the endurance coaches conference?

• 50:09Chris Hauth?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:10Rich Roll?

  So I'm interested in, we talked a little bit about the other day, but I'm interested kind of in what's going on in that community. Like what are the coaches talking about? What's new? What's tried and true? Like what is your relationship to that, you know, situation?

• 50:21Chris Hauth?

  He's putting me right on the spot.

• 50:23Rich Roll?

  No, I don't want to talk about anything you're not comfortable talking about.

• 50:25Chris Hauth?

  No, it's, it's, it's funny.

• 50:27Rich Roll?

  You know, I think a lot of people listening to this are, I need a coach. How do I find a coach? Who are the coaches? They're looking, they're looking, poking around the internet. What's available?

• 50:35Chris Hauth?

  Well, that's a different question with regards to finding a coach because I get a lot of those questions too. Um, but from a Boulder standpoint, I did not really take part because I really like to stay an outsider. And I talked to two or three coaches up there that I know and I'm good friends with. And they're very similar. They like to stay on the outside. I like to learn from different sports, my own activities, a lot of reading, a lot of input. Um, I don't like to, for lack of a better description, conform to these rules of how to teach triathlon, right? Um, I think after 20 years of coaching this and sort of keeping those athletes healthy.

• 51:16Chris Hauth?

  Happy, motivated, athletes coming back years later saying, man, I never felt as fit and healthy and non-injured as I did back those years. Now they can't train like that anymore with kids and life and so on. But that's the rule. That's the compliment to me that they love that time that they use that window in their time of life to get fit and healthy and carry that for years and years forward, right? And maintain some sort of healthy and fit lifestyle. But yeah, no, I didn't really partake in the festivities in Boulder.

• 51:51Rich Roll?

  Okay, so in the reading, like you said, you know, you try to get your information from you're you're trying to stay up on what's going on. Like, has there been anything that you've come across in the last, you know, year or two that's altered your perspective or that you've incorporated into your training that's different from maybe what you were doing four or five years ago? Like, has it evolved? Or do you just?

• 52:12Chris Hauth?

  It's definitely evolved, especially from a nutrition standpoint. It's evolved from a recovery standpoint and even more the need of recovery and sleep and how we're doing our macro cycles versus the intensities that we're training and also the importance of really separating athletes that they do not fit any type of plan, which is back to the whole coaching according to conformed plans, right?

• 52:42Rich Roll?

  Here's your plan. This is what you do.

• 52:44Chris Hauth?

  Exactly. I found that no two athletes are the same. And one person with a little bit of intensity and a lot of endurance does great. And that same person that looks the same, has trained the same, has same background blows up with that, you know? And it's just a lot of listening. It's a lot of communicating. And then, you know, a lot of my athletes will laugh when they hear this, but it's also a lot of saying, you know what? Don't overthink it. You've got to get in these next six months because we've got to build that platform properly and then we can start messing around with different types of training because then you're ready.

• 53:22Rich Roll?

  Cool. All right. Well, let's uh, let's close this thing down. What have we got going tomorrow?

• 53:27Chris Hauth?

  We have a two hour trail run. We're going to head up to the Pacific Crest, which is absolutely gorgeous.

• 53:32Rich Roll?

  What's the elevation up there?

• 53:33Chris Hauth?

  Uh, yeah. Um, we're gonna go start about 8,000 feet.

• 53:37Rich Roll?

  Oh my God.

• 53:38Chris Hauth?

  And we're gonna go.

• 53:39Rich Roll?

  Six isn't enough.

• 53:40Chris Hauth?

  Yeah. But it's just so pretty. You have to see it.

• 53:43Rich Roll?

  I know. I'm so shellacked right now. The idea of doing a 14 mile run at like 8,000 feet.

• 53:47Chris Hauth?

  Well, it won't be 14 miles that on trails as well as with that elevation as well. It's just, it's too hard to do that. It'll probably be 11 to 12. When you get in six miles an hour when you're.

• 53:59Rich Roll?

  But we're doing these in our shorts, right? We're not doing this in a wet suit.

• 54:03Chris Hauth?

  Okay. But we will.

• 54:04Rich Roll?

  That would definitely get some looks up there.

• 54:06Chris Hauth?

  Yes. And a swim cap. And that. People think we're gonna fly off that ridge. And then we'll start with a swim in the morning. Nice, long stretch out swim, full on just recovery. We'll swim backstroke and we'll make her do like butterfly or something.

• 54:20Rich Roll?

  Right. We're gonna have to. Yeah. And then when we get back, like we've been training in the, the biggest paddles available and we're gonna step it down to some smaller ones.

• 54:28Chris Hauth?

  Exactly.

• 54:29Rich Roll?

  Which I'm looking forward to.

• 54:30Chris Hauth?

  Yeah. I felt that today.

• 54:31Rich Roll?

  Oh, man. Yeah. I didn't think I would. I mean, someone in a pool, I just crank with paddles. Like I didn't expect to feel that like lactic acid buildup in the shoulders and lots like that. Cool, man. Well, I'm psyched to be here. 48 hour training camp. This is great, man. We should do more of these.

• 54:47Chris Hauth?

  Yeah, these are awesome. Quick in, quick out. Let's just choose destinations around the country.

• 54:51Rich Roll?

  I got a five o'clock flight. What are we doing tomorrow? We'll get back down to Sacramento. We're all going home.

• 54:56Chris Hauth?

  Yeah.

• 54:56Rich Roll?

  Cool.

• 54:57Caroline Burckle?

  We're planning Catalina too.

• 54:58Rich Roll?

  Okay. Yeah. There's lots of plans happening. We'll see what happens, you know?

• 55:03Chris Hauth?

  Exactly.

• 55:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Let's just get through this race, you know, first, and then we'll talk about what comes after. Caroline. Okay. And Caroline, will you come back and, and do the podcast with me properly and we'll, we'll tell your whole story?

• 55:16Caroline Burckle?

  100%.

• 55:17Rich Roll?

  Awesome. Cool. All right. Thanks you guys. Let's try to do one more of the, maybe like when we're in Stockholm, right before the race and certainly after, if time permitting or whatever.

• 55:27Chris Hauth?

  Yeah, do a post-race download.

• 55:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah. We definitely have to do that. There's gonna be stories to tell for sure, whatever happens. So. Anyway, all right. Thanks you guys. Appreciate it. Peace. Let's.

• 55:51Rich Roll?

  All right, we did it. Short but sweet. Hope you guys enjoyed that. I'm interested in your feedback on these coaches' corners. I'm really enjoying doing them. You guys seem to be enjoying them. I think it's cool to kind of expand out of my typical format, branch out a little bit. So, send me a little feedback, hit me up on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. I'm just @Richroll in most places, pretty easy to find. For more on Chris, go to AIMPcoaching.com or @AIMPcoach on Twitter. Chris has also been on the show, on the podcast, many, many times in the past, all the way back to episode 21, also episode 256. We've done a couple coaches' corners.

• 56:30Rich Roll?

  There was a Skype interview in episode 285 with Louie Cole, and then again on episode 297. It's all searchable on my site. For more on Burks, go to RiseEliteAthletes.com. That's her website, her coaching mentoring website. And you can also find her on Instagram at @CaroBurkles, C-A-R-O-B-U-R-C-K-L-E. Don't forget that C. She's got a great Instagram account, totally inspiring. I would definitely follow her there. Check it out. If you'd like to support this show and my work, share it with your friends and on social media. Leave a review on iTunes. Hit that subscribe button. Basic stuff, you guys. We also have a Patreon

• 57:13Rich Roll?

  set up for people who would like to support my work financially, and many of you have done that. That's amazing, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Every week, I send out a free weekly... I'm laughing again. If you listen to my Aubrey Marcus podcast, then you know why I'm laughing. It's been three weeks since I've sent out my roll call email. I'm doing it today, though. It's gonna go out tomorrow, I promise you guys. In any event, in general, I send out, at least in principle... A free, short, weekly email every Thursday called Roll Call. Five or six things I stumbled across over the course of the week. A couple of articles that I've read, maybe a documentary I watched, a new product that I'm enjoying. Just good stuff, no affiliate links, not trying to make any money, not trying to spam you.

• 57:56Rich Roll?

  That's it. And it has been a couple of weeks since I sent one out. I guess you can call it a little bit of a summer vacation, but I'm back at it this week. So if that interests you, you can just sign up for it. It's free again. Just enter your email address on my website in all of those little windows where you can, where you can throw it up there. Also, I want to remind you guys, I don't want to lose momentum on this. In the wake of my podcast with Scott Harrison, the founder of Charity Water, I've been talking a lot about this monthly subscription service that they have called The Spring. I put the call out to you guys, you guys responded. And in short shrift, we've already raised enough money to build four wells. And my company is contributing one well annually.

• 58:37Rich Roll?

  So that makes almost five wells this year that this little podcast has manifested, which is amazing. But I think we can make it 10. I think it's, I think it's pretty doable. Most of you guys have an extra 20 bucks, 30 bucks laying around that you can donate each month for just, you know, what is really an extraordinary, life-changing payoff. So I want you guys to all really think about the impact that you can have, especially when we feel disenfranchised, like we can't make a difference, that we have no voice. This is a very potent, very real, very tangible thing that you can do for not a lot of money that can really have a profound impact for generations to come. Not just an individual, but a village, a village of people.

• 59:19Rich Roll?

  Imagine that. And imagine how amazing it'll make you feel when you know that you've made that impact. So here's what I'm asking you to do. Make a donation to Charity Water via The Spring, which is their monthly subscription service. To learn more about it and to join, I want you to go to this very specific URL. It's cwt r.org/richrollspring. Cwtr.org/richrollspring. That way, if you use that URL, they can track all the traffic that's coming in to them from this show. And we can, you know, figure out what's working and what's not. I'll also put this link up in the show notes on my website.

• 1:00:01Rich Roll?

  And thank you very much. And while I'm thanking people, I want to thank everybody who helped put on the show today, Jason Camiolo for audio engineering and production, and show notes, and all kinds of behind the scenes stuff. Sean Patterson for help on graphics. He also puts together the roll call email, and the weekly podcast update email, everything having to do with graphics and fonts and stuff like that. That's Sean. And theme music, as always, by Analama. Thanks for the love, you guys. See you back here in a couple of days. Until then, have a great week. Peace, plants, and as Julie would say, namaste.