Why Your Resentment Is a Choice

What does a nervous man on a first date in a crowded restaurant have to do with the darkest impulses a human being can harbor? In this lecture, Jordan Peterson takes a scene so ordinary you have lived it a dozen times and slows it down until something unsettling appears underneath. Every glance across that table, he argues, is already serving a hidden aim, and the direction of that aim quietly decides whether the person sitting across from you is a partner to love or a tool to use. From the biology of why we pair bond, through the four dark traits that psychologists spent fifty years mapping, to the story of two brothers and a sacrifice gone wrong, Peterson traces how ordinary desire curdles into something monstrous, and how the same attention, aimed differently, becomes the foundation of trust, marriage, and everything worth building. What begins as dating advice ends somewhere you will not expect, with a burning sword, a fleeing prophet, and a question you answer without meaning to every time you look at another person. This lecture was filmed on March 24th, 2024, in Phoenix, Arizona. Unlock the ad-free experience of The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast and dive into exclusive bonus content on DailyWire+. Start watching now: http://dwpluspeterson.com/yt ALL LINKS: https://feedlink.io/jordanbpeterson // LINKS // Peterson Academy https://petersonacademy.com Books - https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/books/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 2:00Jordan B. Peterson?

  Hi, everybody. This is the eighth consecutive week of releases from my extensive tour archives. We've been gratified to see that this return to the form that I initially relied on when I started using YouTube is still capable of reaching people. More capable, perhaps, than it was in the beginning. We're attaining combined views and listens across YouTube and the audio channels of about half a million people a week. So that's very satisfying and gratifying. And thank you to all of you who are listening consistently. I also spent a lot of time this week contemplating Peterson Academy ads.

• 2:42Jordan B. Peterson?

  We have a wonderful advertising team and have worked on developing cut lines and assessing graphic images and realized this week that we're really reaching millions of people with these advertisements, far more in some ways than we reach with the lectures from Peterson Academy. And it's an opportunity for us to send a cultural message in imagistic form to a huge audience of people. And so we've been concentrating on developing themes of patriotism and respect for the West and gratitude for our philosophical tradition and a harsher and more dramatic view of Christianity that I think is more accurate than the kind of naive sentimentality

• 3:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  that often accompanies Christian messaging. And so it's been extremely interesting to think that through philosophically and to work on the Peterson Academy advertisements. Bye-bye. So I've been writing the introduction to my, this book. It's 95% done. It actually turned into three books. Because it took longer to go through the material than I thought it might, and so that's good. I was writing the intro today, the introduction, which is the hardest thing to do, really, I would say. And I started thinking about how to communicate

• 4:06Jordan B. Peterson?

  the relationship between the transcendent and the immediate, between our realm, you might say, and the spiritual realm, how to communicate that so that it's entirely comprehensible. And it seems to me that this is something that's now necessary. I mean, I think we're at the point in our technological, cultural development where, well, we can't believe, we can't just believe nothing. That's, that doesn't work. You can't make your way through life believing in nothing.

• 4:48Jordan B. Peterson?

  Life is too difficult for you to sustain yourself without bitterness and resentment, without hopelessness, without succumbing to anxiety if you believe in nothing. But you can't just believe like someone believes in Santa Claus either. You have to. You have to be deeper than that. And I think we have to be deeper than that now because we're too dangerous to be shallow. And I think everyone can feel that. We have amazing tools at our disposal, but they're very, very dangerous. And so we have to be as wise as we are technologically proficient.

• 5:32Jordan B. Peterson?

  And we're pretty technologically proficient. And we're not very wise, and that's not a good combination. And that's why things are shaking. And they've been shaking for quite a while. They've really been shaking, I would say, since the end of the Second World War, when we developed the atomic technologies that led to the, to the nuclear bombs, to the fission bomb and the fusion bomb. World-destroying technologies. And those aren't the only technologies of that sort that we've developed. We've, the birth control pill is a world-shattering technology. The computer chip is a world-shattering technology.

• 6:14Jordan B. Peterson?

  The large language models we just developed this year, they have the same nature. So we're gonna, we're gonna take a look at the background of things tonight. And we're gonna start by investigating what's going on behind the scenes in a relatively everyday manner. This introductory chapter that I'm writing, I started with a description of someone. I imagined a man, so I'm a man. I imagined a man on a first date in a busy restaurant. A typical situation of excitement and anticipation and nervousness.

• 6:59Jordan B. Peterson?

  Nothing out of the ordinary. Except insofar as everything's out of the ordinary if you, if you think about it. If you think about it sufficiently. Imagine that the scene is set in a restaurant that's extremely, it's busy and noisy. And the young man comes in waiting to see the woman that he's invited out for an evening. And maybe they've met online. And they decided to meet at this restaurant.

• 7:41Jordan B. Peterson?

  And so he sees her at the table. His initial impression, we'll say, is positive. He sits down. And they start to, well, they start to what? They start to talk. They start to dance the way people do when they're talking. If you're attending to someone, when you're talking to them, you tend to match your movements with them. Depressed mothers don't do that with their babies. If you film, videotape mothers who aren't depressed with their babies and are depressed with their babies, and you speed up the films,

• 8:24Jordan B. Peterson?

  you can see that the mothers who aren't depressed dance as they're communicating with the babies. The baby moves, the mother moves, like there's a continual back-and-forth exchange of information, but also bodily maneuvering that characterizes an attentive relationship. And you'll notice, perhaps, if you're sitting with someone and you're talking to them and you're listening, more importantly, you're listening, much more importantly, that you'll unconsciously mimic their posture and you'll adjust their, your rate of movement to theirs. You start to dance. When a couple dances together, that's actually one of the things they're checking each other out for.

• 9:09Jordan B. Peterson?

  It's like, are you capable of adjusting yourself in real time to the movements and subtle offerings of someone else? That's what's being evaluated. That's what children do when they meet each other in a playground and they decide whether they can play. They send some signals back and forth and they see if they can get into a communicative dance. And if they can do that, then they can scaffold off that and begin to play. And we're doing that sort of thing all the time. And the couple who are just encountering each other in the restaurant are undertaking to do that. And they're evaluating each other while that is occurring. Now, while they're doing that, they have to solve another problem. It's a very complicated problem.

• 9:54Jordan B. Peterson?

  So imagine they're in the restaurant. Imagine it's a very busy place, noisy. Lot of background activity, kitchen noises, maybe there's a DJ. There's 30 other couples or families or groups of friends sitting there. And they're all buzzing away, talking and chatting. And so there's like 40 conversations going on, plus the activity of the waiters and the waitresses and the music. Now, what you have to do in a situation like that is you have to filter all that out and attend to the person that you're sitting with. Now, that's a very complicated thing to do.

• 10:39Jordan B. Peterson?

  It's an amazing thing you can do it at all. Now, you can imagine that you're sitting there. Well, maybe you're nervous. Then you might ask why. But imagine you're nervous. Your attention is distracted. You're distracted by self-conscious thoughts. That often happens. You're wondering what the person thinks of you. You're wondering if they think you're attractive. They, you're wondering if you're impressing them. You're wondering what you should say next. You're wondering how to make the best display of yourself.

• 11:21Jordan B. Peterson?

  While doing that, you're focusing on yourself and not them. And while you're doing that, if you're focusing on yourself, you're gonna be anxious. Because it turns out that there's no difference in a social situation between focusing on yourself and being anxious. There's no difference between self-consciousness and anxiety. That's why when the scales fall from Adam and Eve's eyes in the Garden of Paradise, they become aware of their nakedness and that precipitates, that's part of what precipitates the fall. To become self-conscious is to be miserable, is to descend. And that's a very useful thing to know. And so, one of the things you could take away from this talk tonight,

• 12:05Jordan B. Peterson?

  if you tend to be a socially anxious person, is that the next time you're anxious, pay more attention to the person you're with. Don't pay less attention to yourself, that doesn't work. Because as soon as you start thinking that you should pay less attention to yourself, you're just thinking about yourself and then you get anxious. But you can really, really increase the amount of attention you're paying to the other person. And if you do that, which is a hospitable thing to do, by the way, then your anxiety will decrease. And then, well, then you might imagine too that you could get distracted by the conversations of the people around you, right? And so, your attention might wander so that you're eavesdropping on the table next to you

• 12:48Jordan B. Peterson?

  or two tables away, or you hear the music, or your attention is fragmented. And as a consequence of that, you lose the thread of the conversation and you step out of sync with the person you're communicating with. That sets up some awkwardnesses in the conversation. You maybe have to ask the person to repeat what they said, or you misunderstand something and then you say something foolish. And the melody of the through line of the conversation starts to get disrupted and the dance is, the dance becomes awkward. You're stepping on each other's toes. And that's a consequence of the fragmentation of your attention.

• 13:28Speaker 05

  It's called Peterson Academy. Peterson Academy.

• 13:31Speaker 02

  Peterson Academy.

• 13:32Jordan B. Peterson?

  It's called Peterson Academy.

• 13:33Speaker 06

  Peterson Academy. If you want an actual education.

• 13:36Speaker 05

  With hand-selected professors from top universities around the world. Bringing the best professors together, making sure they're not censored in any way, giving them the audience and the remuneration and appreciation they deserve. And you were true to your word. You gave me absolute intellectual autonomy. I have had it through every course. We figure we can offer people a high-quality university-level education for under $2,000. Well, congratulations, Jordan. It's honestly brilliant. Can't wait to enroll myself. I'll be doing that straight after this.

• 14:04Jordan B. Peterson?

  Fun, Joe.

• 14:15Jordan B. Peterson?

  What does it mean to attend?

• 14:22Jordan B. Peterson?

  Well, that's where things get strange.

• 14:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  What does it mean to attend?

• 14:29Jordan B. Peterson?

  Why are you attending? That's the first question. What the hell are you doing there? Right? Because you can be sure that the person you're with wants to know that and you want to know that too. And so, let's take apart why you're there. You're there.

• 14:51Jordan B. Peterson?

  Let's presume this. I'll tell you something about human, social and sexual patterns. We'll approach this from the biological perspective. In the, most animals reproduce sexually. There's complicated reasons for that. It's not strictly necessary. There are animals that can essentially clone themselves. It's not a good strategy. Sexual reproduction is a much better strategy, which is why virtually all species are sexually dimorphic. Dimorphic, two sexes. Right, two, right, right.

• 15:39Jordan B. Peterson?

  There are various types of sexual strategies in the animal kingdom. Reproduction strategies. That's a better way of thinking about it.

• 15:49Jordan B. Peterson?

  On the one end of the distribution of sexual strategies are low-investment, high-reproduction-rate strategies. Puff balls have that strategy. I don't know if you know the mushroom that's a puff ball. It dries and if you step on it, it puffs out what looks like smoke, but which is actually like hundreds of millions of spores. An immense number of them. And they just float on the wind and they land anywhere. And even if there's 100 million of them, or there's actually more produced, they all die, except one on average. And so, we maintain our number of puff balls, but we don't end up knee-deep in them,

• 16:32Jordan B. Peterson?

  which is what would happen if the success rate was higher. That's a high-reproduction-rate, low-investment strategy.

• 16:42Jordan B. Peterson?

  On the other end of the distribution are human beings, as it turns out. We're low-reproduction-rate, high-investment-strategy reproducers. And so, what does that mean? Well, it means you don't have very many kids. I don't know what the world record for number of children for a woman is. It's something like 70, right? Right, it's a lot. It's a very rare woman who has 70, very, very, right. The upper end for men is much higher, but for women, it's 70. But that's not the typical number of children, obviously.

• 17:23Jordan B. Peterson?

  The typical number of children, well, historically was two on average because the human population was very stable for a very long period of time. In the last 100 years, as we've become 200, as we've become wealthier,

• 17:44Jordan B. Peterson?

  our, the rate of survival of our children has increased dramatically, but it was quite dismal for a long time. Even so, we didn't have very many children.

• 17:55Jordan B. Peterson?

  It's nine months of pregnancy, it's quite difficult.

• 17:59Jordan B. Peterson?

  The human infant is very, very dependent when it's first born. There's a variety of reasons for that.

• 18:09Jordan B. Peterson?

  We have very large heads. It's hard for the heads to pass through the pelvic structure. Women's pelvic structure is very carefully balanced. It's, her hips are wide enough so the baby can pass through, but narrow enough so she can still run. And that's a very tight competition. And one of the ways we finesse that is that our infants are born about a year younger than they might be for a mammal of approximately our size. And our infants' heads are compressible. Often, a baby after, just after it's born, has a, like a cone-shaped head because the skull's compressible. It's a very narrow passageway into life.

• 18:54Jordan B. Peterson?

  And it's a consequence in part of our cortical evolution, the expansion of our brain. And the price we pay for that is not only trouble in childbirth, let's say, and the requirement for our infants to be born in essentially a quasi-fetal state, you know, as opposed to say, the baby calf that can stand up and walk within minutes after it's born. Human infant is basically immobile for six months and barely mobile for nine and can't walk at all for about 12 months and then can't take care of itself till it's 40 and...

• 19:42Jordan B. Peterson?

  And so, they take a lot of investment. And it's not just a single generation of investment, it's a multi-generational investment. That's part of the reason why we're a longer-lived species because there's some utility from a reproductive, I'm speaking purely biologically, you understand? There's some utility in having grandparents around because the problem of raising children is so difficult that it has to be born by a number of closely related people over a very long period of time, very long period of time. And we are pair bonding, we're a pair bonding species for the same reason. It's that the burden of an infant and the opportunity, the burden and opportunity of infant is such that

• 20:28Jordan B. Peterson?

  if it's born by only the mother, the chances of cataclysmic failure are much, much, much, much higher. And so, we tilt towards pair bonding. So, we're high-investment, low-reproducing species, the long lifespan, very dependent children.

• 20:50Jordan B. Peterson?

  Our children require a lot of investment.

• 20:55Jordan B. Peterson?

  However, within the domain of human beings,

• 21:05Jordan B. Peterson?

  there are low-investment, there are people who adopt low-investment mating strategies and high-investment mating strategies. Low-investment mating strategy is, it's a hedonistic strategy. It's a one-night-stand strategy. And you might ask, well, what's your point?

• 21:32Jordan B. Peterson?

  The point of attention, let's say. Well, you're sitting in your restaurant. You're having dinner with the person you invited out. What's your strategy?

• 21:43Jordan B. Peterson?

  And how do you direct your attention in consequence of that strategy? And that is the question because you direct your attention in consequence of your aim. Okay, so let's imagine that your aim is short-term mating strategy, right? One-night-stand. All right, so you're gonna direct your attention and you're going to organize your actions in keeping with that goal.

• 22:19Jordan B. Peterson?

  Bueno, ¿cómo vas a hacer eso exactamente? Sabemos el objetivo que estás sirviendo ahora. Bueno, ¿qué objetivo estás sirviendo exactamente?

• 22:28Jordan B. Peterson?

  O podrías decir que estás tratando de obtener lo que quieres. Es como, esa es una forma de pensar sobre ello.

• 22:34Jordan B. Peterson?

  Depende de cómo defines tú.

• 22:37Jordan B. Peterson?

  Estás tratando de obtener lo que una fracción de ti quiere. Digamos que estás tratando de obtener lo que un deseo tuyo quiere. Así que lo que estás haciendo si estás persiguiendo una estrategia de matrimonio a corto plazo, quieres conseguir a la chica en el sueño lo más rápido posible, digamos, es que estás reduciendo a quién eres a esa demanda inmediata, a esa demanda estrecha de la gratificación de uno mismo inmediata. Así que ese es el tú que está teniendo la conversación. Bien, así que podría haber todo tipo de otros tú que podrían estar ahí. Puedes estar solo, así que estás buscando un acompañante. Puedes estar solo y serio, en el caso en el que no solo estás buscando un acompañante, sino que estás buscando...

• 23:23Jordan B. Peterson?

  Bueno, salto del reino sexual por un momento, estás buscando un amigo. Y un amigo, piensa en un amigo desde la perspectiva de un niño. Un amigo es alguien con el que puedes jugar un juego, pero que quieres repetir el juego muchas veces. Eso es un amigo. Y así, si eres solitario y estás adoptando una estrategia de acompañamiento, vas a estar buscando hacer un amigo con el que puedas jugar, y ese sería el almuerzo, pero con el que el juego iría bien lo suficiente para que... Bueno, ella quiera repetir el juego. Ese sería el segundo día, digamos. Y lo que se desviaría de eso sería una secuencia de juegos, digamos. Y esa secuencia de juegos sería una relación. Y en principio, eso podría moverse hacia...

• 24:07Jordan B. Peterson?

  Bueno, de nuevo, depende de tu objetivo. ¿Moverse hacia qué?

• 24:13Jordan B. Peterson?

  Estadía estable, vivir juntos, matrimonio. Esos son objetivos muy diferentes y van a... La consecuencia de esos objetivos diferentes va a dirigir tu atención y tu acción de acuerdo. Y todo eso está ahí en ese almuerzo, justo al principio. Bueno, digamos que

• 24:34Jordan B. Peterson?

  no quieres la responsabilidad o la oportunidad de una relación a largo plazo, una relación comprometida a largo plazo, que es la terminología extraña que usamos para reemplazar el término mucho más corto y al punto, el término matrimonio. No estás buscando matrimonio. ¿Qué estás buscando? Bueno, en el extremo, estás buscando gratificación sensual a corto plazo. Y eso es lo que está dirigiendo tu atención. Así que el tú que está ahí es la parte de ti que quiere gratificación a corto plazo. Bien, ¿qué es esa parte como? Bueno, está orientado hedonísticamente, obviamente, porque el objetivo es el sexo y el sexo es el placer.

• 25:16Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y fácilmente puede convertirse en placer a costa de la persona con la que estás. Y también puede convertirse fácilmente en placer a tu costa, en lo que te estás sacrificando inmediatamente la posibilidad de matrimonio comprometido a largo plazo a las demandas del momento inmediato. Y así, cambiando a una estrategia de matrimonio a corto plazo, así que se diga, no solo estás utilizando a la otra persona como una herramienta para la gratificación de tus deseos inmediatos, sino que también estás haciendo lo mismo.

• 25:57Jordan B. Peterson?

  Ese impulso también está haciendo lo mismo al tú más amplio. ¿Verdad? No, puedes entender eso más profundamente si piensas en la diferencia entre un niño de dos años y un adulto maduro. Un niño de dos años quiere lo que quiere o ella quiere, no importa lo que, ahora mismo. Y puedes ver eso cuando los niños de dos años tienen temperas, que hacen bastante... O estudiantes de universidad, en ese caso, cada vez más. Y porque no han madurado por ese punto. Porque nuestra cultura se ha patologizado lo suficiente ahora para que eso sucede a menudo. Y así, ese patrón de demanda inmadura de gratificación inmediata

• 26:40Jordan B. Peterson?

  se mantiene mucho más allá de su fecha de duda. Porque eso debería desaparecer alrededor del año de cuatro. Y si no desaparece al año de cuatro, tiende a no desaparecer. Y así, parte de lo que estás haciendo cuando eres padre, si tienes algún sentido, es que estás atraen y disciplinando a tu hijo hacia la sustitución de una orientación a medio a largo plazo en el tiempo y una orientación comunitaria, una que toma en cuenta a otras personas, en cambio de lo que quieren por sí mismos ahora mismo.

• 27:21Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y lo que quieres por ti mismo ahora mismo es una forma más instintiva de acercarte al mundo.

• 27:30Jordan B. Peterson?

  Tu impulso, así que se diga, tus deseos son parte y parcial de lo que traes al mundo. Y si te rigen ellos, te rigen por la fuerza. Y podrías pensar que si estás involucrando en estrategias de matrimonio a corto plazo, estás persiguiendo lo que quieres, lo que quieres. Pero lo que no entiendes es que en realidad estás sirviendo a un maestro que es un fragmento hedonístico de tu total ser. Y lo estás haciendo... Al hacerlo, sacrificas la posibilidad de una relación comunitaria y sacrificas tu propio futuro. Bien, ¿cómo sabemos esto? Puedes decirlo todo lo que quieras, solo estás haciendo... ¿Qué?

• 28:13Jordan B. Peterson?

  Estás haciendo un juicio de valor sobre la manera en la que la gente se comporta sexualmente. Sí, definitivamente estoy haciendo eso. ¿Por qué estoy haciendo eso? ¿Por qué estoy haciendo eso? Bueno, en realidad sabemos como psicólogos algo sobre las personas que definen a las estrategias de matrimonio a corto plazo. Déjame contarte esa historia. Y aquí está la razón por la que te estoy diciendo esto. Es como, con cada mirada que tomas, sirves a un maestro.

• 28:45Jordan B. Peterson?

  Ahora, puede que no sepas quién es ese maestro, puede que no quieras saber. Pero no hay que evitar eso.

• 28:54Jordan B. Peterson?

  Está construido en la estructura de percepción misma.

• 28:59Jordan B. Peterson?

  Tu percepción sirve a tus objetivos.

• 29:03Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y eso es realmente algo que debes saber. Si el mundo se está desarrollando para ti como un lugar de maldición aterrador. Si el mundo se está desarrollando para ti como un camino sin valor, sin esperanza, lleno de obstáculos, lleno de obstáculos, sin amigos, hacia adelante. Puede que quieras preguntar, ¿qué diablos estás buscando?

• 29:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  Tu objetivo es gratificación sexual a corto plazo. Bien, ¿qué sabemos sobre eso? Bueno, aquí hay una cosa que sabemos. Uno de los marcadores más confiables de proclividad criminal en adolescentes es la experiencia sexual de múltiples parteros temprano. Así que eso ha sido conocido durante 50, 60 años. Independiente de el juicio moral. Es un marcador clínico para la personalidad antisocial, para el desorden de conducta infantil. Así que eso es interesante saber.

• 30:03Jordan B. Peterson?

  Es un reflejo de la proclividad de una persona usarse de sí mismos y de otras personas como instrumentos de gratificación a corto plazo. Así que también es un signo de una especie radical de madurez, inmadurez. También es muy estable, como dije, si esa proclividad es evidente

• 30:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  después del año de cuatro, tiende a ser muy estable y permanente. Se caracteriza a la mayoría de los niños.

• 30:35Jordan B. Peterson?

  Es característico de la inmadurez. Quiero lo que quiero ahora y mira el diablo si estás en mi camino. Ahora, ese no es un problema si la persona con la que estás tratando es de dos. Porque son muy altos, ¿verdad? Y no son muy peligrosos. Aunque los niños de dos años son los más violentos seres humanos.

• 30:58Jordan B. Peterson?

  Han sido agrupados juntos, puedes agrupar a los niños en grupos de diferentes edades. Y por mucho, el grupo más violento es los niños de dos años. Así, pero de nuevo, son pequeños y no pueden hacer mucho daño a los otros. Así que, y la mayoría de esos... Algunos de los niños de dos años son más violentos que otros. Y, pero incluso los violentos tienden a ser socializados al año de cuatro. No todos ellos. Los violentos niños de dos años que no son socializados al año de cuatro, tienden hacia un camino criminal de vida. Así que, ¿qué más sabemos sobre estrategias de matrimonio a corto plazo?

• 31:41Jordan B. Peterson?

  Em 60 anos, os psicólogos começaram a desenvolver o que eventualmente se tornou as tecnologias que produziram os grandes modelos de linguagem que surgiram nos últimos meses. O que os grandes modelos de linguagem fazem é analisar a relação estatística entre as palavras ou conjuntos de palavras. E então o que isso significa? Bem, imagine que você leu mil livros e, nos livros, a palavra "bem" apareceu várias vezes, na maioria dos livros, e então havia alguma probabilidade razoável de que com "bem" outras palavras apareceriam em proximidade próxima. Então, se você estava falando sobre o que era bom, você poderia falar sobre o que era bonito, você poderia falar sobre o que era mau. Se "bem" aparecer, algumas outras palavras são provavelmente a aparecer.

• 32:28Jordan B. Peterson?

  É como quando você está analisando uma palavra por si, como o que faz uma palavra "cat", C-A-T.

• 32:35Jordan B. Peterson?

  Essa é uma palavra, C-I-T não é uma palavra. C-I-T é mais uma palavra do que C-Q-T. Por quê? Bem, porque o padrão de consonante, vowel consonante, é muito mais comum entre palavras do que o padrão consonante, consonante, consonante. Há regularidades estatísticas entre letras, entre palavras, entre grupos de palavras, entre sentenças, entre parágrafos, entre conceitos, que podem ser mapeados em todos os níveis. Então, talvez um parágrafo sobre o bonito é mais provável estatisticamente ser seguido por um parágrafo sobre

• 33:15Jordan B. Peterson?

  o bonito.

• 33:18Jordan B. Peterson?

  Estes grandes modelos de linguagem, eles mapeam todas essas relações, bilhões de parâmetros, eles mapeam o domínio de

• 33:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  estatística, conceitual, semelhança e diferença. São mapas de significado, realmente. Os psicólogos começaram a usar tecnologias muito primitivas como essa 50 anos atrás, e eles começaram a mapear o domínio da personalidade.

• 33:45Jordan B. Peterson?

  Se você... se você sorri, imagine que você está feliz.

• 33:51Jordan B. Peterson?

  Se você está feliz, resulta que você é estatisticamente mais provável de ser comunicativo. Se você está ansioso, você é estatisticamente mais provável de ser frustrado. Se você é agradável, se você é bom, você é estatisticamente mais provável de ser bem-vindo. Se você...

• 34:09Jordan B. Peterson?

  Se você é combattivo e competitivo, você é estatisticamente mais provável de ser...

• 34:16Jordan B. Peterson?

  de dizer não. Se você é interessado em ideias, você é estatisticamente mais provável de ler ficção. Se você é dutável, você é mais provável de ser patriótico. Se você pegar todos os descriptores que você poderia usar para descrever a personalidade humana e você analisar as relações entre os descriptores, você pode ver que eles se colam em cinco dimensões.

• 34:42Jordan B. Peterson?

  Extroversia é uma, neuroticismo, essa é a proclividade de experimentar emoções negativas, essa é outra. Se você experimenta uma emoção negativa, você é estatisticamente mais provável de experimentar todas as emoções negativas. Agradabilidade, essa é uma espécie de dimensão maternal. Consciência, isso te faz ordem e industrioso. Abertura, essa é a dimensão de criatividade, isso tudo foi mapeado. Quando esse mapeamento estava ocorrendo,

• 35:09Jordan B. Peterson?

  as palavras evaluativas foram tiradas. "Bem" e "mau", eles não incluíam essas palavras, e a razão para isso foi que se eles incluíam palavras evaluativas, "bem", "mau", criminoso, não criminoso, onde houve um julgamento de valor claro, o modelo estatístico todo tendia a colapsar em algo como "bem" versus "mau", e isso foi muito útil, então eles tiraram isso. Agora, o problema, desculpe, esta é uma forma redonda de chegar ao ponto, mas eu tenho que te explicar. O que a consequência disso foi que os modelos de personalidade que derivamos não esclareceram nosso entendimento da chamada psicopatologia, comportamento anormal, comportamento antissocial,

• 35:54Jordan B. Peterson?

  preocupante, patológico, narcisista, self-sabotador, comportamento socialmente debilitante. Se você tirar as palavras evaluativas, você não pode mapear isso tão bem. Então, o que aconteceu? Uma vez que estabelecemos a mapa de personalidade normativa, é que alguns psicólogos começaram a estudar a dimensão evaluativa.

• 36:25Jordan B. Peterson?

  Os atores ruins.

• 36:29Jordan B. Peterson?

  E seu análise de como o que era antissocial e self-serving se manifestou, revelou inicialmente três dimensões.

• 36:45Jordan B. Peterson?

  Narcisismo. Então, se você é narcisista, você quer atenção, mas você não quer fazer nenhum trabalho necessário para obter isso de forma válida. Você sabe, se você é um bom cara, você vai receber atenção da sua família e da sua comunidade porque você é produtivo e generoso, essa é uma boa start. Você é confiável, honesto, produtivo e generoso. Você pode fingir isso, você pode reclamar status que você não merece, você pode atrair a atenção para si mesmo. Você pode capitalizar naquela atenção sem fazer nenhum sacrifício relevante, e se você faz isso, então você é narcisista. Então, essa é uma dimensão. Outra dimensão é

• 37:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  Machiavellismo. Voltar à data. Bem, primeiro de tudo, se você é narcisista na data, você não vai estar ouvindo muito a sua data. Você vai estar falando muito sobre por que você é tão grande e quanto atenção você merece, e você vai estar checando aquela outra pessoa. Muito difícil ver se eles estão te dando a atenção que mereces. E se você é um homem fazendo isso, você pode muitas vezes pular o chão sobre as olhas da sua data, especialmente se ela é jovem e inocente, porque narcisistas imitam competência. Mulheres jovens que têm alguma sabedoria estão procurando homens competentes, mas eles avaliam a competência com confiança, e narcisistas imitam a confiança.

• 38:13Jordan B. Peterson?

  Certo? Isso é por que, você sabe, há um trope, um romântico Hollywood trope, que as meninas gostam dos meninos ruins. Bem, por quê? Porque elas parecem confiantes, e as meninas confundem isso com competência, e essa é a jogada narcisista. É um elemento da jogada narcisista.

• 38:31Jordan B. Peterson?

  Se você é governado pelo espírito do narcisismo e você está em uma data, então você vai usar a data como uma escala onde você pode mostrar suas virtudes hipotéticas para que você possa ganhar atenção.

• 38:48Jordan B. Peterson?

  O Machiavellismo é outro de estes trajes escuros. O que você faz se você é Machiavellista?

• 38:57Jordan B. Peterson?

  Isso é o que um conman faz, ou um vendedor de carro usado, você sabe, como você vai a um loja de carro usado, talvez você vá a uma loja, não uma loja que você iria duas vezes, e a pessoa vê você como um meio para um fim, e o fim seria "teremos o dinheiro, muito obrigado", o que está bem, se há algum serviço de retorno pelo dinheiro, porque então é uma troca justa, mas o Machiavellista pensa, se você é suficientemente um desgraçado para que eu possa falar com você em abrir seu portão, então eu deveria ter o dinheiro porque você é muito estúpido para usá-lo. E então, essa é uma merda de forma de avaliar uma situação social. E então, para um Machiavellista em uma conversa, você é apenas algo para ser manipulado com palavras para entregar os bens.

• 39:43Jordan B. Peterson?

  Essa é a manipulação Machiavellista, certo? E

• 39:49Jordan B. Peterson?

  um bom Machiavellista vai te assistir para que eles te possam dizer o que você quer ouvir, para que eles possam te direcionar para ir onde eles querem que você vá. Agora, no caso da data, e você é o objetivo desafortunado do Machiavellista, se isso vai ser em trocas sexuais o mais rápido possível, esse é o exemplo que estamos usando. Machiavellista. Isso não é tudo, há outra dimensão que segue com isso. Psicopatia. O que é um psicopata? Bem, você sabe o que é um psicopata, porque você vai a filmes. E os psicopatas que você vê em filmes são geralmente narcisistas e Machiavellistas também, porque é isso que os faz charmosos.

• 40:33Jordan B. Peterson?

  Certo? E eles são muito fracos de cor, e eles querem exatamente o que eles querem de você agora, independentemente do custo, para eles ou para você. Por que para eles? Ser um psicopata, na verdade, não é uma estratégia muito boa. Muitos psicopatas acabam em prisão. Se você interagir com um psicopata um ou duas vezes e não funciona tão bem para você, o que é uma espécie do ponto, você tende a lembrar isso, e então, se você tem a opção, enquanto você avança, você evita aquela pessoa, e então os psicopatas são muitas vezes itinerantes e a razão para isso é porque eles têm que mudar de comunidade a comunidade, porque eles queimam seus pontes e todo mundo sabe quem é o que é, e então eles têm que ir em frente, e esse é o tipo de conman andando.

• 41:17Jordan B. Peterson?

  Essa é a origem do arquiteto de "conman andando", certo? Se você vai arranjar todos, assim que se fala, no seu círculo social, então você tem que fazer caminhões para território novo. Então, o que é um psicopata, tecnicamente? Predador?

• 41:35Jordan B. Peterson?

  Parasito. Então, o que isso significa? Predador significa qualquer que você tenha, isso pode ser meu, muito obrigado. Esse é o aspecto predador. O elemento parasitário é mais subíssimo, é mais longo prazo. Alguém com um estilo de vida parasitário vai manipular você pelo que necessitar, para que eles possam viver sem esforço, sob os frutos do seu trabalho. Certo? Então, esse é o elemento parasitário, e os tipos criminosos reais, 1% dos criminosos são responsáveis por 65% dos crimes, por acaso. Os tipos criminosos reais, os trajes escuros, tendem para o psicopático. Você sabe, você encontra a pessoa estranha em prisão que fez algo espectacularmente estúpido uma vez,

• 42:20Jordan B. Peterson?

  e, você sabe, isso não é ok, mas isso é muito diferente do padrão repetindo que caracteriza a personalidade, suas trajes que estou enumerando agora. Então, isso foi chamado do Triad Escuriço, e as pessoas estudaram isso. A primeira pessoa a estudar isso foi um cara chamado Dale Paulus, na Universidade de British Columbia. E ele estudou o Triad Escuriço por um número de anos, então ele começou a descobrir o que era associado com

• 42:48Jordan B. Peterson?

  estratégias de troca curta.

• 42:52Jordan B. Peterson?

  Certo, então isso é entretenido.

• 42:58Jordan B. Peterson?

  So then you might think, "Well, let's add another layer, just for amusement." It turned out that didn't exhaust the network of meaning on the dark side of the personality, in the personality realm. It didn't exhaust the full manifestation of what was dark in the personality realm.

• 43:22Jordan B. Peterson?

  As the research into the dark triad progressed, and more and more questions were asked about just exactly what this pattern of behavior,

• 43:35Jordan B. Peterson?

  just exactly how this pattern of behavior could be characterized,

• 43:40Jordan B. Peterson?

  another term entered the diagnostic lexicon: sadism. Sadism: the positive delight in the suffering of others. That's the dark tetrad, right? A lovely tetrad.

• 44:00Jordan B. Peterson?

  Striving for undeserved attention with no reciprocity. Using language and action instrumentally to gain a narrow end.

• 44:11Jordan B. Peterson?

  Predatory and parasitical orientation. Plus, if I can hurt you, so much the better.

• 44:22Jordan B. Peterson?

  How much of that spirit's in the date?

• 44:27Jordan B. Peterson?

  So, these are the things that lurk behind everything we do, at every moment of our lives. That's on the dark side of things. Alright, so, so I said, "Your aim determines your pattern of attention." Right. "Your aim determines your pattern of attention."

• 44:49Jordan B. Peterson?

  So if you're aiming at

• 44:53Jordan B. Peterson?

  short-term hedonic self-gratification, then the spirit that you've invited in to direct your attention and orchestrate your actions is the spirit that's at the core of narcissism, Machiavellianism, psychopathy, and sadism. And you might say, "Well, that's a dark spirit indeed." Right?

• 45:20Jordan B. Peterson?

  That's a psychoanalytic, now

• 45:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  conceptual descent into the underworld under human interactions, right? That's the character behind the scenes. You might ask yourself, "Well, how do you become that spirit?" And the answer to that is, "You invited in." I'll give you an example of that.

• 45:53Jordan B. Peterson?

  In the story of Cain and Abel, it's the second biblical story.

• 46:00Jordan B. Peterson?

  It occurs after Adam and Eve are expelled from the Garden of Paradise for the sin of pride.

• 46:07Jordan B. Peterson?

  God tells Adam and Eve that they're going to have to work now, because they've fallen. The way of thinking, here's a way of thinking about that.

• 46:16Jordan B. Peterson?

  You can work in your life, or you can play in your life, let's say. When do you play? Well, you play when, you play with others when they want to play with you. You play when you're pursuing something good and communal joyfully. You work when

• 46:37Jordan B. Peterson?

  you work brutally

• 46:42Jordan B. Peterson?

  in the aftermath of an error that has made your life much worse than it might have otherwise been. You could say that's an error of pride. You bite off more than you can chew. You end up in a situation where you have to toil madly to

• 46:59Jordan B. Peterson?

  rescue yourself from the hole that you dug. There's a insistence in the Judeo-Christian ethical pantheon that suffering enters life with sin. It's a hard idea to swallow, given the omnipresence of death, let's say, and the reality of pain, but if you understand that story in the manner that I just described, then you also understand very rapidly that a lot of the very difficult work that you have to do, and a lot of the suffering that befalls you, is a consequence, not so much of the structure of existence itself, but of your proclivity to cause for yourself, because of misdirected aim, way more trouble than you would actually have to have.

• 47:44Jordan B. Peterson?

  And that's what happens to Adam and Eve, and that's why they have to struggle forward.

• 47:50Jordan B. Peterson?

  Work is established as the pattern of life in that story. And then Eve gives birth to Cain and Abel. They're the first two human beings, really, speaking biblically. Adam and Eve are made by God, so they don't count. Cain and Abel are the first two human beings. They're the first two, they're the brothers, the first brothers who emerge in the profane world of history. Right? They establish two patterns, very deep patterns, two opposed patterns. Cain, Abel. Abel aims up,

• 48:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  and he brings his best to the table. That's a good thing to think about in relationship to the date.

• 48:34Jordan B. Peterson?

  The man who's there with the woman that he has an interest in could aim up and bring his best to the table. That's one strategy.

• 48:47Jordan B. Peterson?

  Cain, by contrast, offers what second rate? Well, you can understand that in the confines of your own life. You could imagine that, first of all, you could imagine aiming up or not. That's easy to imagine. Sometimes you're aiming up, and sometimes you're not. And then even independent of that, to some degree, is how much sacrificial effort you're willing to put into the attempt, right? Because you could imagine at the best times of your life, that you're all in. You put your best on the table. You hit it with everything you had. And perhaps, if you were fortunate, the consequence of that was that you had some success commensurate with your effort.

• 49:32Jordan B. Peterson?

  Or alternatively, you could take the variant route, and you could pull the wool over your eyes, and the eyes of your fellow men, and God himself, and you could bring what was second rate to the table,

• 49:47Jordan B. Peterson?

  presuming that the ease that that allows,

• 49:54Jordan B. Peterson?

  if the effort was successful, would justify the deception. And that's what people do, who bring what's

• 50:02Jordan B. Peterson?

  second rate to the table. They

• 50:09Jordan B. Peterson?

  make the prideful presumption that the offering of what is less than, is best, will be sufficient. And it's a foolish notion, because a moment's reflection informs everyone that life is far too challenging and difficult for anything but everything you have to be enough. And so what happens to Cain is that he fails. And he could fail and learn, because you can fail and learn, and then the next time you don't fail quite as much, or maybe even you partially succeed, and you can keep doing that. You have to do that.

• 50:47Jordan B. Peterson?

  You do that if you have some humility, right? Because you note your failure, you presume that maybe, you know, you've got some sorting out to do. You

• 51:00Jordan B. Peterson?

  make the sacrifice necessary to sort yourself out, and you start walking however awkwardly and poorly uphill. Cain doesn't do that. He

• 51:13Jordan B. Peterson?

  gets resentful instead. And he gets resentful enough to call out God. Now, people do this all the time, and it's understandable. You know, there'll be times in your life, for example, where something dreadful happens, someone you love becomes seriously ill, for example, and seems entirely unfair. Perhaps, I'm not making a suggestion that it isn't in this case. And you're so

• 51:40Jordan B. Peterson?

  upset, disheartened by that, that you lose faith. Not only do you lose faith in yourself and in existence, but you see within you emerge a strong proclivity to shake your hand at the sky and curse. And

• 51:56Jordan B. Peterson?

  that's what happens to Cain, although with much less provocation, right? He's bitter because he made second-rate sacrifices and they were rejected. He's not bitter because life itself has an element of arbitrariness and misery associated with it. And so he has a little chat with God, because that's the sort of guy Cain is. It's not his fault that he isn't proceeding happily in the world like his undeserving, successful brother Abel. It's, well, whose fault is it? Well, obviously, the Creator of all things. And so he has it out with God, and he says,

• 52:38Jordan B. Peterson?

  essentially, I'm paraphrasing the story, it's a consequence of familiarizing myself with multiple translations. He says something like, "What sort of cosmos did you create here? I'm breaking myself in half," which is a complete lie, "trying to get ahead, and nothing's working out for me, and I've got my brother, and no matter where he goes, the sun shines on him, and everything's perfectly bloody delightful." It's like, "How do you account for that?"

• 53:07Jordan B. Peterson?

  That's the spirit of resentment, orienting his aim. And God says, "If you did well, you'd be accepted." That's actually kind of a definition, you know? It's an interesting definition, because the the impetus there is that if things aren't working out for you,

• 53:27Jordan B. Peterson?

  in the most fundamental sense, that's on you. Now, you might think that's a pretty dreadful judgment, it's like, "Yeah, it's not as dreadful as the alternative, because if you're miserable because the cosmos itself is structured badly and set against you, well, you must so just throw in the towel now." But if it turns out that there's some stupid thing you're doing, no matter how trivial, that's tilted you in a direction that you shouldn't be going, and you could be on your knees with sufficient humility to discover it, there might be the possibility that you could set it right and start wandering uphill instead of farther down. And that's essentially what God suggests Cain, but he's already possessed, so to speak, as we'll see,

• 54:11Jordan B. Peterson?

  and that's just not going anywhere. And so, and then God says something even worse to him, and that's not so good, because what's already been said is not good. He says to him,

• 54:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  Si tu as fait bien, tu seras accepté. Tu as apporté ce qui est insuffisant à la table, et cela compte pour ta misère. Et plus que ça, le péché se tient à ta porte comme un animal prédateur sexuellement éravoué. Et tu l'as invité à avoir sa place avec toi. C'est une métaphore brutale, et c'est très intéressante. Donc, le péché est un terme arché. Ça a à voir avec l'objectif. Pour pécher, c'est de manquer l'objectif. Trois langues différentes. Le grec est hamartia, ça veut dire manquer le centre de l'objectif. Ça veut dire que tu peux manquer en ne pas objectif, ou tu peux manquer en ne pas être compétent,

• 55:09Jordan B. Peterson?

  ou tu peux manquer en objectifant dans la mauvaise direction, ou en ne pas objectifant du tout. Pour pécher, ça veut dire manquer l'objectif.

• 55:17Jordan B. Peterson?

  Le péché se tient à ta porte, la tentation de manquer l'objectif, et tu l'as invité. Donc, qu'est-ce que ça veut dire ? Ce n'est pas comme si tu es possède par exactement le esprit de resentiment. Ce n'est pas comme si il vous visitera par accident pendant que vous ne vous en souveniez pas. Pour que quelque chose comme ça gagne le contrôle de votre objectif, tu dois ouvrir la porte et l'inviter. Et c'est ce que Dieu dit à Caïn. Tu es misère en raison de ton échec, mais tu es resenti, et bitter, et désespéré parce que tu as invité cet esprit à prendre possession de toi. Et puis, c'est pire que ça, parce que ce n'est pas exactement possession. Tu sais, tu pourrais penser, "Tu es un peu naïf, et tu ne sais pas ce que tu fais,

• 55:59Jordan B. Peterson?

  et tu ouvres la porte, et quelque chose vient, ainsi que parlé, et maintenant, c'est en toi, et c'est... Ça t'a... Et dans un sens, tu es innocent en proportion à ta naïveté. Mais ce n'est pas ce que Dieu dit à Caïn. Il dit :

• 56:15Jordan B. Peterson?

  "Tu l'as invité à avoir sa place avec toi." C'est une métaphore sexuelle.

• 56:21Jordan B. Peterson?

  Et ce que ça veut dire, c'est que Dieu accuse Caïn d'avoir invité l'esprit de resentiment et d'entrer dans une relation créative avec lui. Se broiter sur lui. Se broiter sur lui, oui. Se broiter sur le resentiment. Les gens font ça tout le temps. Ils sont en colère. Ils sont désespérés. Ils fantasment. Ils fantasment à propos de la vengeance. Ils fantasment à propos de la façon dont le monde les traite brutalement. Ils fantasment à propos de ce qu'ils pourraient faire à toutes ces personnes qui les ont faits mal si ils avaient seulement l'opportunité. Ils se débrouillent sur ça. Ils se révellent sur ça. Ils se broient sur ça. Peut-être pendant des milliers d'heures. Si tu te demandes comment quelqu'un arrive à ce point quand il a 15 ans, qu'il peut prendre

• 57:03Jordan B. Peterson?

  une arme automatique haut de puissance et tirer dans une école primaire, c'est comme ça. Un couple de milliers d'heures, quelques milliers d'heures de broiter, et tu finiras dans un endroit très sombre. Oui, et c'est le modèle de Caïn. Et Dieu dit à Caïn tout ça, et tu peux prédire que ça ne le rend pas très heureux. Parce que c'est exactement la dernière chose qu'il veut entendre.

• 57:30Jordan B. Peterson?

  Ton échec est de se mettre à tes propres pieds. Tu as multiplié ton échec par l'invitation que tu as offerte à pécher, avec laquelle tu as conspiré pour magnifier ta bitteresse. Et c'est tout sur toi.

• 57:51Jordan B. Peterson?

  Donc, qu'est-ce qui se passe avec Caïn ?

• 57:54Jordan B. Peterson?

  Il tue Abel. Il détruit son propre idéal, et il le fait pour frapper son fiston à Dieu. Et Caïn dit : "Mon punition est plus que je peux supporter", ce qui est toujours le cas pour quelqu'un qui détruit son propre idéal, parce que comment vas-tu vivre sans un idéal ? Tu n'as rien à objectif. Tu n'as pas de chemin vers l'avenir. Tu as déchiré ton lien avec tout ce qui pourrait te donner de l'espoir. Tu es fini. Mais ce n'est pas où la histoire fin. Les descendants de Caïn deviennent génocidaires.

• 58:27Jordan B. Peterson?

  Oui, et c'est une histoire de comment... Qu'est-ce que tu dirais ? Les secondes sacrifiées ouvrent la porte à une union créative avec le péché. Ça s'expands en meurtre fracturé et se transforme en l'impulsion génocidaire. Et la prochaine histoire est la pluie.

• 58:50Jordan B. Peterson?

  Oui.

• 58:55Jordan B. Peterson?

  Revenons au restaurant.

• 59:01Jordan B. Peterson?

  Maintenant, nous avons ouvert la porte, nous pouvons voir

• 59:05Jordan B. Peterson?

  le fond de les forces qui dirigent l'attention des participants à la dinner.

• 59:19Jordan B. Peterson?

  Si je ne veux rien plus que ce que quelque chose de bas en moi demande à ce second, je vais diriger mon attention en accord avec cet objectif. Et cet objectif est un reflet de ce que j'ai autorisé à posséder. Et c'est une manifestation de

• 59:41Jordan B. Peterson?

  le narcissiste, machiavélique, psychopathique, sadisme que j'ai broité et autorisé à prendre possession de moi suffisamment pour justifier mes objectifs manipulatifs.

• 59:59Jordan B. Peterson?

  Cette

• 1:00:03Jordan B. Peterson?

  lutte avec la tentation, qui se déroule à l'intérieur de toi chaque fois que tu mouilles tes yeux. Tu peux imaginer ça, imagine ça, imagine ça. Peut-être que ta date porte quelque chose de provocatif, un peu provocatif, et tes yeux s'effondrent de sa face à ses à ses bretons. Et elle dit quelque chose comme : "Mes yeux sont ici". Maintenant, tu sais que... Donc

• 1:00:35Jordan B. Peterson?

  ça peut être un jeu de sa part, et elle peut provoquer cette réponse, et elle peut jouer le même jeu manipulatif que tu joues. Bien que dans la situation sexuelle, il est moins probable que les femmes fassent ça, parce qu'elles payent un coût beaucoup plus élevé pour le sexe. Et donc, dans ce domaine en particulier, elles sont moins susceptibles... Les femmes sont moins susceptibles d'engager des stratégies de mariage à court terme, parce que le coût pour elles est beaucoup, beaucoup plus élevé. Ça ne signifie pas que les femmes ne sont pas caractérisées par leur propre ensemble de proclivities et tentations, mais elles varient avec le sexe.

• 1:01:10Jordan B. Peterson?

  Imaginez que le couple danse maintenant, et la femme est évaluant le homme. Pourquoi est-elle évalué ? Eh bien, supposons pour un moment que son objectif est plus élevé, et qu'elle aimerait en fait trouver un homme decent, et qui suit un objectif à long terme, qui est communautaire, qui ne est pas prêt à sacrifier son être futur pour ses désirs hedoniques prédictifs dans le présent. Comment est-elle évaluée ? Elle va évaluer dans la danse, à un certain degré, parce qu'une chose qu'elle va découvrir est si son partenaire a le

• 1:01:56Jordan B. Peterson?

  contrôle de soi, discipline, maturité, objectif, de garder ses mains à lui-même. Ou au moins, de procéder avec l'exploration suivante de la prochaine étape de la manière qui est volontaire, jouissante, éveillée, saine, prudente, et pas trop précipitante. Et tout ça est évalué dans l'échange de mouvements qui caractérise une danse. Et tout ça est un reflet de... C'est un essai d'utiliser l'interaction du moment pour évaluer la nature de l'esprit qui caractérise les gens dans la danse.

• 1:02:41Jordan B. Peterson?

  C'est ce que nous faisons quand nous essayons de nous connaître. "Puis-je vous faire confiance ?" C'est vraiment ce que j'essaie de trouver. "Puis-je vous faire confiance ?" "Pouvons-nous jouer ensemble réciproquement et productivement à travers un long temps ?" "Ses-tu assez mûr pour prendre ton tour, puis me donner le mien ?" "Pour danser de cette façon mutuellement bénéfique à travers le temps ?" Particulièrement pertinent si tu veux établir une mariage, parce que c'est un jeu infiniment répété qui, au moins, doit être stable, et avec la grâce de Dieu, tu pourrais dire, peut être un jeu qui améliore comme il est joué, qui est la situation idéale, c'est la relation idéale.

• 1:03:25Jordan B. Peterson?

  Si c'est le genre de relation que tu veux, cet objectif va dominer tes patterns d'attention et d'action dès le début. Et quand les gens évaluent les uns les autres

• 1:03:37Jordan B. Peterson?

  pour les premières impressions, ils essaient de prendre une image de la personnalité. Ton personnalité est ton objectif à travers le temps.

• 1:03:45Jordan B. Peterson?

  C'est une bonne façon de penser à ça. Nous voulons vraiment savoir quel est l'objectif d'une personne à travers le temps, parce que c'est comme ça que nous les comprenons. C'est comme ça que nous les évaluons. C'est aussi comme ça que nous nous comprenons nous-mêmes. Quand tu regardes un film,

• 1:03:59Jordan B. Peterson?

  ce que tu vois est la révélation de l'objectif du personnage à travers le temps. Donc, tu vois la personne dans une variété de situations différentes, dans une variété de images de l'objectif, et tu infères de cela leur objectif général. Est-il un bon ou un mauvais homme ? C'est la évaluation que tu fais, disons, dans le film typique. "Est-ce un héros ou un villain ?" Et tu extrales cette réalisation en regardant comment son personnalité se manifeste dans différentes situations, ses patterns d'attention, ses patterns d'action, et tu le fais...

• 1:04:36Jordan B. Peterson?

  You might say you do that so you could figure out who to cheer for. But that bears examination too, because cheer for means something like admire. Right? Do you admire the hero? If your head's screwed on straight in a movie.

• 1:04:52Jordan B. Peterson?

  Admire... What do you do with someone you admire? Admiration is the instinct to imitate. And so if you go see a movie and you watch the hero and you realize he's a hero and he makes himself manifest on the screen as a hero and you admire that pattern, that's an impetus to imitate. And what you're attempting to do, this is why you want to go to the movie to begin with, is you want to figure out how to embody that spirit. That's what fiction does. Fiction presents you with a sequence of spirits to embody.

• 1:05:24Jordan B. Peterson?

  And

• 1:05:27Jordan B. Peterson?

  the dramatist characterizes the aim of the hero. What's the aim of the hero?

• 1:05:34Jordan B. Peterson?

  That's the question that the stories of the Bible are trying to tell. What's the characterization of the proper aim? I outlined already the nature of the improper aim, let's say, just in relationship to the date.

• 1:05:55Jordan B. Peterson?

  What might be the proper aim?

• 1:06:01Jordan B. Peterson?

  We could start with something that's essentially indistinguishable from maturity. Okay, so when you're a toddler, an infant, you... Your mode of being in the world is very instinctively predicated. You know this if you have two-year-olds, because two-year-olds are fascinating creatures, because they're sort of all-in every moment. They're exciting to be around, although it's quite tiring.

• 1:06:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  They're unbelievably happy when they're happy. One of the things that was painful about being a parent was I found myself stopping my children from being so damned happy all the time.

• 1:06:41Jordan B. Peterson?

  Why? Because they run around and they're really noisy and they cause all sorts of trouble and they exhaust themselves and they get hurt. And so you're always calming them down. It's like, "Don't be quite that happy." Right? And positive emotion is associated with impulsivity. And so it actually does need to be not so much inhibited, that's not the right, that's not the right approach. Regulated. Regulated in relationship to what? Well, a child might impulsively grab the spoon from, like say a two-year-old, you've got a two-year-old child and a one-year-old child, and the two-year-old impulsively grabs the spoon from the one-year-old. And they do that in a fit of enthusiasm, but it's not a good strategy, because if you grab other people's stuff, they don't like you. And so it's a bad long-term strategy. And so one of the things you're doing with your

• 1:07:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  kids is you're telling them, "Don't let your momentary enthusiasms

• 1:07:33Jordan B. Peterson?

  motivate you to act in a manner that other people find undesirable." Well, why? Is that arbitrary? It's like, not if you want them to have friends.

• 1:07:43Jordan B. Peterson?

  Right? Because the definition, having a friend means that you've entered into a reciprocal relationship, right? A child, children actually can't really have friends till they're about three. And the reason for that is they're actually not, you know, it varies to some degree, but the reason for that is they're actually not capable of reciprocity until they're three. They can't take turns. You can put two-year-olds together in a room and if you're not paying attention, you think they're playing together, but they're not. They're playing side by side. Each child is playing their own game. When a child hits the age of three, they can start what three-year-olds will do, like a boy and a girl, let's say, they'll get together and they'll have a little negotiation, like you have with your wife all the time, about how to play house. And

• 1:08:27Jordan B. Peterson?

  the boy will ask the girl, or vice versa, "Do you want to play house?" And that's the first invitation. And in order for the play to occur, the answer has to be yes, it has to be voluntary. Children who force other children to play their games don't have friends. They're just bullies. And they're not popular, and it's not a good strategy. And it's not a good strategy, because it doesn't work out very well for the bullies. There's no reciprocity in it. It won't sustain itself. The other kids will try to get away. And if your kid is a bullying...

• 1:08:58Jordan B. Peterson?

  Is an impulsive bully, adults won't have anything to do with him either, and then he won't learn anything, because adults, you know, they know things. That's what makes them adults. And if the adults around your child don't like your child, it's like, your child's in for a dismal time. And so they have to, children have to learn to integrate their impulses in a manner that allows for the expression of those instincts in accordance with reciprocity with other people and in relationship to the long term. You can't do something that you want today that's going to cost you tomorrow. You can't do that all the time, because you end up paying, doing nothing but paying tomorrow

• 1:09:40Jordan B. Peterson?

  for your, for today's idiocy. You know, that sort of defines teenagehood in some ways, right? Teenagehood is the state of paying today for yesterday's idiocies. And hopefully, as you mature, you stop doing that, right? And there's a sacrifice in that. You sacrifice your maturity. And there's, there's no real difference between that and cortical maturation, psychophysiologically speaking. So as you mature, the

• 1:10:07Jordan B. Peterson?

  newer and more sophisticated parts of your brain mature, the parts of your brain that are capable of regulating your behavior in relationship to other people, your friends, your family, the broader community, all of those things, and also regulating what you do now in relationship to what you need to do tomorrow and next week and next month and next year and five years down the road. You might say in some ways, the more mature you are, the longer a span of time across which you calculate the consequences of your behavior and the broader the range of people across which you calculate your impact. And so, you know, if you're starting the process of maturation, you know, maybe you

• 1:10:50Jordan B. Peterson?

  get yourself to the point where you can plan a week ahead and you can take care of yourself. And maybe if you push it and you mature further, then you can plan a year ahead and you can, you can start to take care of your wife. And maybe if you get that together to some degree, the two of you can plan five years ahead and you can take care of your kids. Right? And so you're, you can see that you're establishing a kind of harmony of function across multiple levels of community and time. And that's a good way of defining the target of maturation. The...

• 1:11:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  Okay, now imagine you're back in the date and you decide that

• 1:11:32Jordan B. Peterson?

  you're tired of being alone, you're looking for someone, to what, to what? Let's, let's say your aim is high. So what are you looking for now? Because your aim is high. You're looking for someone to love and vice versa. And so what does it mean to love someone? Well, it means to...

• 1:11:48Jordan B. Peterson?

  It means to care for them. It doesn't mean to protect them and make them secure precisely, because that's not good enough. If you love someone, you care for them, you offer them security and predictability, you're honest with them, but you also encourage them. And you can see the love that you might have for a child if it's optimized, is there's a certain amount of protection that goes along with that, because children need a certain amount of shelter. But a fair bit of that is, you know, get the hell out there. Get out there in the world and push yourself and develop yourself and dance on the edge so that you become who you can become. And it's the balance of those two things. That's sort of the balance of the maternal and the paternal, by the way, that balance between security and encouragement. That's like the essence of love. That's a good way of thinking about it.

• 1:12:35Jordan B. Peterson?

  That's one of the characterizations of God in the Old and New Testament.

• 1:12:40Jordan B. Peterson?

  Right? So you could think about that as a spirit, that's like the spirit we talked about already, except on the other side of the universe, so to speak, that you could invite in and have possess you. Right? And that's what you're called upon to do. That's the essence. That's one of the ways that the essence of religious practice can be conceptualized. How?

• 1:13:02Jordan B. Peterson?

  So you're in your, you're at your date and you decide that you want to find someone to love. And then that directs your actions and your attention, because now at the date, the frame of reference that you're using to elicit the words you speak and the glances you take and the pattern of dancing, the pattern of attention is that

• 1:13:23Jordan B. Peterson?

  "This could be someone I could love."

• 1:13:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  Well, that's going to be a very different date. Now, obviously...

• 1:13:33Jordan B. Peterson?

  If you're wise, that initial investigation is tentative, and you look for a dance-like response. And the possibility of that love expands as the relationship develops. But

• 1:13:53Jordan B. Peterson?

  it's important to get the aim right at the beginning. That's why this is a leap. Maybe it's worth making now. There's an insistence in the biblical corpus that the firstborn is to be sacrificed to God, right? Dedicated to God. Why? Well, because how you establish your aim determines how things go. Right? And so when you undertake something, if you want to do it properly, you aim at what's highest right at the beginning. Right? Right. What's highest? Well, one of the ways we characterize this, you know, if law, if, if the short-term mating strategy that's associated with the dark tetrad is exploitation

• 1:14:36Jordan B. Peterson?

  for self, for narrowly self-centered hedonic purposes, then love would be the opposite of that. It's something, obviously, in and of itself. It's, we talked about that a little bit. Security, predictability, an honest relationship, honest words, forthright actions, no deception, encouragement. And, you know, if, if you were aiming high, you'd think, if you could stand yourself, that that's what you'd want for yourself, right? So it, it's funny, because you might think that if you are doing nothing but manipulating someone to get them to crawl in bed with you as soon as quick possible, you're being selfish.

• 1:15:20Jordan B. Peterson?

  But it's, it's a very strange use of the word self, because it's not any better for you than it is for them. If you were being properly selfish, you'd search with every glance for everything that was best for you, as well as for them. And that's a real optimization. Aiming up and treating the other person as if they're you. Right? That's the great commandment, to do both of those. And that's the commandment that Christ posits as the source of the 10 commandments that are handed to Moses themselves. Right? Upward aim, radical reciprocity. Right?

• 1:16:01Jordan B. Peterson?

  And that's the opposite of the spirit of bitter exploitation. And that's operating in the background while you're at the date too, as it is operating in the background with everything you do and every word you utter. And that's the underlying religious landscape. Now, that spirit that aims up, I'll characterize it some other ways.

• 1:16:27Jordan B. Peterson?

  It's the spirit towards which proper sacrifice is directed. These are definitions. That's what happens in the story of Cain and Abel. Abel offers his sacrifices upward. Well, if you're going to establish a long-term, beneficial, reciprocal relationship with someone you love, you have to offer what's best in order to manage that, and you have to sacrifice everything that interferes to pursue that goal. That's also why there's such emphasis in, on sacrifice in the biblical corpus, is because there's no difference between sacrifice and work. And the work you engage in towards an end is the sacrifices that you make in relation to that aim. And that's the pattern of your life.

• 1:17:12Jordan B. Peterson?

  Human life is sacrificial, because we work. There's no difference between work and sacrifice. Right? Work is the sacrifice of the moment to the community and the future.

• 1:17:23Jordan B. Peterson?

  Right? Right? So what's the highest form of sacrifice? Well, that's the other mystery that the biblical stories attempt to unfold. In the final analysis, the offering is child and self. Right? That's why Abraham is called upon to sacrifice his son. Everything is to be given up to what's highest. And the pattern of the crucifixion is self-sacrifice. And the crucifixion itself is the combination of the sacrifice of son and self. Right? It's an exemplification of the highest conceivable form of sacrifice. And what does it represent? It means everything is to be offered up in service to what's properly highest. That's the core of community. That's why

• 1:18:06Jordan B. Peterson?

  in town, based on the European model, which is in turn based on the Judeo-Christian model, you have a cathedral at the center of the town or church in the shape of a cross. Right? That's the place of self-sacrifice, the cross. There's an altar in the church, and the altar is the place of sacrifice. Why? Because community is founded on sacrifice.

• 1:18:29Jordan B. Peterson?

  Right? And then the question is, what's the highest form of sacrifice? Well, we walked through that already. It's the willingness to offer your best. Well, what's the core of your best? Everything you are. Right? Right? And that's the...

• 1:18:46Jordan B. Peterson?

  What does that mean? A society that's, that's predicated on the spirit of voluntary self-sacrifice does not require a tyrant to govern itself.

• 1:18:59Jordan B. Peterson?

  Right? That's something to know. And so, one of the things you might ask yourself

• 1:19:06Jordan B. Peterson?

  when the tyrant's looming, like now, is to what degree do you make manifest the sacrifice that no longer, no longer requires the hand of the tyrant? And that's literally the sacrifice of everything, right? That's the willingness. It's very straightforward. All the responsibility that you do not take upon yourself will be taken from you by tyrants and used against you. Right? In your country, I'm a Canadian. I've watched your country a lot. Your country knew this better than any country that's ever been, I would say. The reason that you have been so stunningly free and prosperous for so long, even though that's threatened now, is because your country was predicated on

• 1:19:52Jordan B. Peterson?

  that sacrificial responsibility. Right? And you weren't inhabitants of the land of Cain. Because one of the things that's remarkable about your country, and I've been in many countries, is that you people actually admire genuine success. Now, there's variability in that. There's no shortage of resentment, even in your culture. But all things considered, this was the shining city on the hill where the spirit of Abel was celebrated. Right? Right? And look what happened. Look at the miracles that took place as a consequence of that. Right? The freest and richest and fairest nation that was ever established. Established not on the basis of the rights

• 1:20:36Jordan B. Peterson?

  that every fool now clamors to have, what would you say? Respected and regarded, but on the responsibilities that made the citizens of the United States neither slaves nor tyrants. Right? And that's a reflection. And we'll stop with this. This is another characterization of God. In the, in the opening chapters of Genesis, God is presented as the spirit of Logos that broods upon the waters prior to the emergence of the order that's good. These waters, it's a mystery, because the waters are there before creation occurs. And so, a critical reader will be stumped by the order of affairs.

• 1:21:21Jordan B. Peterson?

  But water, in the biblical context, in the initial act of creation, it isn't water in the sense that we understand water now. The word is actually tohu vabohu. And then in Hebrew, that word means something like confusion and possibility. Right? And it's, it's presented as water because possibility is deep, like water is deep. And possibility gives rise to form, like water bears form. Right? And water, out of water, life emerges. And out of possibility, creation emerges. And what do I mean by that? Possibility is what you confront when you wake up in the morning.

• 1:22:07Jordan B. Peterson?

  It's what you can wrestle into the shape of the world as a consequence of your decisions during the day. The Logos that inhabits you, which is the spirit that's made in the image of God, is the consciousness within you that wrestles, like God himself, at the beginning of time with possibility and brings forth order in consequence. The order that's good, if the aim is upward, if the aim is towards love and the effort is undertaken in the spirit of truth, the order created is good or very good. That's what you do if you're a good father in the confines of your home. You establish a little walled garden. That's what paradise is, a walled garden. Right? Where everyone, a walled garden that keeps everyone secure

• 1:22:52Jordan B. Peterson?

  and encourages them to the point where they can play forever, so to speak. The same idea is walking with God.

• 1:23:03Jordan B. Peterson?

  There's an insistence in Genesis 1 that human beings are made in the image of that Creator.

• 1:23:10Jordan B. Peterson?

  And there's an insistence that that creative spirit is the same spirit that bears the cross of catastrophe up the hill of suffering. And what does that mean? It means that insofar as you bear the responsibility for the world on your shoulders, that you're participating as an image of God in the creation of the order that's good. That's what that all means. Right? And the idea that you have intrinsic value, which is the idea that your society is predicated upon, right? Made in the image of God, with inviolable rights and responsibilities that transcend even the state. This isn't a gift from the government. It's not a gift from other people.

• 1:23:55Jordan B. Peterson?

  It's a reflection of your intrinsic nature. Why?

• 1:24:01Jordan B. Peterson?

  Because your aim is the...

• 1:24:05Jordan B. Peterson?

  Because the world depends on your aim. That's why. That's true. And that's a terrible thing to know. And now you know it.

• 1:24:16Jordan B. Peterson?

  Well, thank you very much.

• 1:24:31Jordan B. Peterson?

  Well, thank you for putting up with that. All right, Mick, way we go.

• 1:24:48Speaker 00

  Is it working now? It's working now.

• 1:24:51Speaker 00

  Thanks for the claps, the two people.

• 1:24:57Speaker 00

  Oh, thanks. That's not that I didn't mean to ask for that accidentally.

• 1:25:04Jordan B. Peterson?

  I didn't know if I'd get from the restaurant to heaven and hell and back.

• 1:25:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:25:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, every day, basically.

• 1:25:14Speaker 00

  Okay. I've chosen some questions. We have, I have been told we have 17 minutes, so we're going to get through as many questions as we can, which knowing Dad will be one.

• 1:25:37Speaker 00

  Hmm, okay.

• 1:25:43Speaker 00

  So a bunch of people wanted this question, and I'm curious about it, too. It was, is there something specific that you've wrestled with God about? Something that comes to mind.

• 1:26:05Jordan B. Peterson?

  Yeah, well, yes. It's a hard question to answer because it's true all the time. You know, I mean, one thing I do, for example, when I'm speaking on stage is

• 1:26:22Jordan B. Peterson?

  weigh the words.

• 1:26:25Jordan B. Peterson?

  You know, so what's the aim?

• 1:26:29Jordan B. Peterson?

  Well, my aim in part is to get somewhere further, right? Further in my investigation. Because it's a communal enterprise, my aim is also to take everybody along with me. And that's a challenge, so that's ridiculously entertaining. It's, it's, it's, it's like juggling plates, or it's more like juggling fire, really, but...

• 1:26:53Jordan B. Peterson?

  And so that's a wrestling match. You can, you can come to learn that

• 1:27:01Jordan B. Peterson?

  you wrestle with God when you speak.

• 1:27:04Jordan B. Peterson?

  Your aim with your words, your words are arrows that should be striking the center of the target. And you can feel that. You can, and you can really learn to, you can really learn to feel that. The words that are true put the foundation that is firm under your feet. The words that are false fragment you and and allow you to be washed away when the storms come. And you can feel that with every word. It's a terrifying thing to learn, because the first thing you learn is that almost everything you say is a lie. And that's a terrifying thing to learn.

• 1:27:43Jordan B. Peterson?

  When God

• 1:27:46Jordan B. Peterson?

  banishes

• 1:27:49Jordan B. Peterson?

  no, when God bars the way to Adam and Eve, bars the way to paradise from Adam and Eve. It, that story is often interpreted as God banishing Adam and Eve because of their sin, but that's not exactly right, you see? That's not exactly right. Adam and Eve are outside paradise because of their pride. They bit off more than they could chew. And, and now they're alienated from God, because pride alienates people from God. Now, there's a pathway back to God, so to speak, pathway back to the paradise, back to the kingdom of heaven. That's another way of thinking about it. But the pathway is barred by a sword that, by terrible monsters, cherubim,

• 1:28:34Jordan B. Peterson?

  and by a sword that is on fire that turns every which way.

• 1:28:40Jordan B. Peterson?

  Well, why? Well, what's a sword that turns every which way? Well, it's a blade. And what does a blade do? Well, a blade slices and cuts. And what does something on fire do? It burns. And, and so what does a burning blade do? It cuts and burns. And what does a burning blade that turns every which way do? It cuts and burns, no matter, it cuts and burns everything away. What do you mean, everything? Everything not fit to be in paradise.

• 1:29:10Jordan B. Peterson?

  So you pay attention to your words and you learn 95% of what you say is a lie. All that has to go.

• 1:29:18Jordan B. Peterson?

  And so that's a terrible thing to understand. The, the alternative is worse, because

• 1:29:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  the pathway to hell is paved with lies. And hell itself is the dominion of the lie. And you might say, well, I don't believe that. It's like, first of all, that's only because you don't have any idea what you're talking about. And second, you can make the case in a manner that's not the least theological. A totalitarian state isn't freedom-loving innocents striving toward the light dominated by the brute Hitler or Stalin. One man can't control 20 million people. A totalitarian state is the state that exists when every single person in the state, bar none, lies about absolutely everything

• 1:30:12Jordan B. Peterson?

  all the time to themselves and to everyone else. And that's hell. And if that's not hell enough for you, it's like, well, you know, have it your way. Have it your way. You know, when God comes to Abraham and tells him that he's going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, he tells Abraham that if, well, Abraham makes a bargain with God. And he says, well, I don't think you should destroy the, the cities regardless of their sin. And God says, yeah, I think they, I think it's time to

• 1:30:49Jordan B. Peterson?

  lay some waste. And Abraham says, what if there's innocent people in the city? And God says, well, yeah, I don't think there is. And Abraham says, well, what if I find 40? And God says, hey, 40? No problem. If you can find 40, I'll spare the city. And Abraham, who's kind of pushy, says, well, how about 30? And God says,

• 1:31:14Jordan B. Peterson?

  okay. And I think Abraham bargains him down to 10. If there's 10 people who tell the truth in the city, then it'll escape

• 1:31:24Jordan B. Peterson?

  destruction.

• 1:31:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  Well, what does that story mean? You're called upon to be one of the 10. Right, that's what that story means. It means more than that. It means if there's 10 people in a city who still tell the truth, that's enough to save the city from destruction. Right, that's how important it is to say what you have to say. You want that hammered home? You look at the story of Jonah. Jonah is called upon by God to utter the words of the, of truth that will redeem the city of his enemies, Nineveh. And Jo, Jonah thinks, yeah, I don't think so. I'm not going to the city of my enemies, 150,000 of them, to tell them God is outraged and that they're in trouble. I just assumed they were wiped out anyways.

• 1:32:10Jordan B. Peterson?

  And there's 150,000 people, 150,000 of them, like one of me. So he does what any sensible person would do hypothetically, and makes tracks in the opposite direction, jumps on a boat and gets the hell out of there. And unfortunately, God is not so easily thwarted. And the ship is enveloped by a storm. And what that means is that if you run away when you have something to say, then the ship that bears you will be threatened. That's what that means. And so the sailors are concerned about this occurrence, and they decide there's probably someone on board who isn't right with their God. And they cast lots and they

• 1:32:53Jordan B. Peterson?

  choose Jonah as the victim of interrogation. And he's asleep, because that's what people do when they flee from their conscience, is they fall into unconsciousness, so that they don't have to contend with the reality of their refusal. And they wake him up and they say, well, the ship's in peril and the waves are rising, and we think maybe you're not exactly right with your God. And Jonah says, matter of fact, I was told to do something. And that's the voice of conscience, by the way. And, and I didn't. And this, the sailors say, well, who's your God? Because they're thinking it's like God of the local tavern or something. And Jonah says, well, he created the heavens and the earth.

• 1:33:36Jordan B. Peterson?

  And the sailors think, well, you probably shouldn't piss him off then. And

• 1:33:45Jordan B. Peterson?

  he tells them to throw them, throw them overboard, because he knows there's no hope. And the sailors try mightily to reach the shore, but they can't, because God's not so easily thwarted, so they throw Jonah overboard. And, you know, the story could end there, because what that story means is that if you flee from the dictates of your conscience, if you refuse to bring forth the words that you're called upon to say, then you put the ship of state in peril and you'll end up in, and your own life will end up threatened.

• 1:34:19Jordan B. Peterson?

  And you might think, well, that's pretty damn dismal. And it's like, that's not nearly bad enough. That isn't even, that's just where it starts.

• 1:34:28Jordan B. Peterson?

  Because the beast from hell itself comes up and takes Jonah in its jaws and pulls him down to the bottom of things where he's,

• 1:34:35Jordan B. Peterson?

  where he lies for three days, right, in hell?

• 1:34:39Jordan B. Peterson?

  Because that's the next thing that happens if you're quiet when you're told, when you're called upon to speak. Right? And so

• 1:34:50Jordan B. Peterson?

  no, we'll leave it at that.

• 1:35:02Speaker 00

  Okay, we got two in.

• 1:35:14Speaker 03

  How do you forgive someone that's wronged you greatly without becoming a martyr and continuing to let them have a negative impact on your life?

• 1:35:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  Well, forgiveness is

• 1:35:31Jordan B. Peterson?

  forgiveness is a very complicated matter. You know, if you're

• 1:35:38Jordan B. Peterson?

  pursuing the religious path in the

• 1:35:43Jordan B. Peterson?

  traditional Judeo-Christian manner, when you ask God for forgiveness, you confess, repent, and atone. Right? What does confess mean? Well, look, if you, if you, you and I have had a scrap about something and I feel betrayed, and I want to set things right, I want to find out, like, well, what's the story here? What happened? And if I have any sense, I'm going to confess my part in it too, right? Because if there's something that's standing between us, it'd be convenient if it was just you. But there's a reasonable probability, well, there's some probability, that it was just me. Right? And if I don't want to replicate the mistake, I want, might want to find that out.

• 1:36:27Jordan B. Peterson?

  It was a very useful thing to know if you're fighting with your wife or your husband. It's like, well, it's probably them. But it might be you. And so why bother finding out? Well, because then you don't have to be stupid again. Right? So you want to confess, here's what I think happened. And you know, if you're, if you have a real dispute with someone and they just tell you exactly what happened, like honestly, you're 80% of the way to repairing the relationship right there. Like, often what you want to know from someone is, do they at least understand what the hell happened? Right? And then, and but, but then let's assume that, I don't know, we have a scrap and we decide it's like 60% you and 40% me.

• 1:37:12Jordan B. Peterson?

  And so then what do we do? It's like, well, I figure out what I have to offer you to, I have to indicate that I'm sorry, that's the repentance. Then I have to atone for it. It's like, well, what, what do I need to do to set things right? And that's kind of a two-pronged issue. It's like, what do I have to do so I feel I can forgive myself? Right? Because you, you hold yourself accountable if you have any sense. And then I have to figure out, well, what do you need so that we can put this behind us? And then we have to negotiate that. And then you put it behind you and then you have a friend instead of an enemy. And that's a good deal unless you want to collect enemies. And that's, that's not wise. One enemy is a lot of enemies, but you know, five or six, and you're pretty much done. And so

• 1:37:57Jordan B. Peterson?

  that's the process of forgiveness. It's very, very complicated. Now, you might say, well, if someone did me wrong long ago and I need to let go, that's, that's different, that's a different, I mean, that's, that's, you, you can't have the repentance or the atonement then on the part of that person. Maybe they're no longer alive, for example. Then usually what you have to do is, well, you have to figure out what you contributed to it, the same way that you would if you were actually discussing it with someone. And then you have to understand

• 1:38:29Jordan B. Peterson?

  what it was that brings an state of affairs like that about, so that when you move forward into the future, you're not likely to fall prey to the same circumstance. Because otherwise it'll, it'll just haunt you. It haunts you partly because you're set up so that, once you fall into a pit once, anytime you approach the territory defined by that pit, you're going to be apprehensive. If you haven't figured out a way of navigating around that obstacle, the obstacle signals threat to you forever, forever. It'll never go away. It'll never go away. And so you can clean all that up, but you have to do a very careful analysis. I'll, I'll give you an example of that. So often soldiers who suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder,

• 1:39:14Jordan B. Peterson?

  it's always often conceptualized, by the way, as a severe moral injury. They often develop PTSD because, not because of something terrible that happened to them, but because of something terrible they saw themselves do. Right? Because you can be a naive, you know, corn-fed Iowan and end up in a foreign land in a very dreadful circumstance and watch yourself do something absolutely ungodly and really enjoy it. And then you'll understand very rapidly that you know absolutely nothing about yourself or the depth of the soul or the nature of human beings. And your attempt to live forward in that state of ignorance will be indistinguishable from trauma. And then you might say, well, how do you recover from that? And the answer is,

• 1:40:00Jordan B. Peterson?

  you develop a philosophy of evil that's as deep as your sin. That's how. Yeah. And then maybe you can forgive yourself because you can see your capacity for the commission of sadistic atrocity, you know, in the light of the eternal battle between good and evil that characterizes the cosmic landscape. It's something like that. You know, and the atheist types think, well, no, it's like,

• 1:40:27Jordan B. Peterson?

  if you think that, you've never dealt with someone who's had a severe moral injury. Because if you ever have, you'll find out very soon that the landscape of good and evil is a lot more real than you might think. And if you don't know that, you should be on your knees every second of your bloody life, thanking God that that terrible knowledge has not been yet revealed to you. And yeah, that's for sure.

• 1:40:58Speaker 03

  One more?

• 1:40:59Jordan B. Peterson?

  Sure.

• 1:40:59Speaker 03

  Even though I was told not to do that? Okay.

• 1:41:02Jordan B. Peterson?

  I'll be quick.

• 1:41:03Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:41:03Jordan B. Peterson?

  Find a quick one, if you can.

• 1:41:05Speaker 03

  Okay, this is kind of a cute one. We'll see if we can keep it cute.

• 1:41:11Speaker 03

  My, my wife and I are having our first kid in four weeks. Congratulations. Neither of us have a relationship with God but want to raise our kids in church. Please give your advice.

• 1:41:22Jordan B. Peterson?

  Oh, you can do a good thing badly.

• 1:41:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  I mean that, I mean that. Look, look, it, it's very much in keeping with what we talked about tonight. It's, it be, regardless of the state of your religious belief or lack thereof, you can make the decision to place your child in a situation where he or she can learn fundamental stories of our culture. And you can't be, you can't be a citizen of the West without knowing those fundamental stories. Those are the same thing. Like inhabiting that narrative world and being a citizen of the West, those are the same thing. And so you can provide them with that. And every single person, and this will include your own children, have to wrestle with God

• 1:42:13Jordan B. Peterson?

  within the confines of their own soul. And you can facilitate that process by educating them in the traditions of your people, so to speak. And

• 1:42:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  so go to church and

• 1:42:31Jordan B. Peterson?

  listen and see if you can learn and participate in the community. And if the church isn't everything you think it

• 1:42:41Jordan B. Peterson?

  could or should be, then you can work to rectify that. And that's a useful thing to do too. And

• 1:42:49Jordan B. Peterson?

  you know, I didn't bring my kids to church when they were kids and that was a mistake.

• 1:42:54Speaker 03

  There was one time we went to church, mom brought us to church.

• 1:42:59Speaker 03

  And we went to a church in Toronto and they're all woke. They're really woke now. But this was like 15 years ago, I think I was in grade six. And they started the Lord's Prayer with our mother, Father, who art in heaven. And we just got up and left. Now, that was our, that was our experience with church growing up.

• 1:43:18Jordan B. Peterson?

  Right, right. Well, and you know, you could say too, and, and I certainly would have been likely to think that way at that time, that if you go to a church and it's woke, then you should leave. And that might be the case unless they're all like that, in which case you're in some trouble. But the alternative strategy is to take back the territory. Right? And if you don't, well, all of you, all of you have to think about this in relationship to your duty, to your community. Because part of the reason that the woke mob has prevailed is because the responsible people abdicated their responsibility.

• 1:44:01Jordan B. Peterson?

  And so why are the school boards full of woke

• 1:44:08Jordan B. Peterson?

  of confused woke activists? Well, because they took the job. And so there you have it. And if you want to do something about that thing, what should be done? It's like, take the job. Right? And so, and that's the only way out of this mess. So it's the same on the church front.

• 1:44:33Jordan B. Peterson?

  You know, you have a responsibility to rebuild. Well, what are you going to do? You're either going to rebuild the damaged institutions of your community or you're going to abandon them. Those are your options. And if you abandon them,

• 1:44:48Jordan B. Peterson?

  well, then what? Then what do you have? You're in the desert then. And the idol worshippers come calling pretty quickly when you're lost in the desert. As you can see, if you look. And on that cheery note,

• 1:45:06Jordan B. Peterson?

  thank you, everyone.

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