Tarte Cosmetics: Maureen Kelly

Let’s say you had a passion but thought of it only as a hobby; certainly never the seed of a billion-dollar company. Plus, you are studying for a career in something unrelated to business. That’s Maureen Kelly’s story, CEO of Tarte Cosmetics. She was pursuing a Ph. D. in clinical psychology and already had TWO Master’s degrees when she realized she didn't want that to be her career. What she wanted was to launch a makeup company—despite having no significant start-up money, no experience, and no connections. How she did it is a story of pure moxie. She relentlessly knocked on the doors of chemists, manufacturers, retailers, and the fashion press. She maxed out her credit cards and enlisted the help of friends and family, turning Tarte into a wildly successful brand. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Guy Raz?

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• 0:46Guy Raz?

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• 1:32Guy Raz?

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• 3:40Guy Raz?

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• 4:23Guy Raz?

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• 5:07Guy Raz?

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• 5:12Speaker 01

  I can remember the beauty editor from Vogue came up to me and said, "What is this and who are you?"

• 5:19Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  And I was like, "I'm Maureen Kelly, and this is Tarte." And she's like, "Okay, so you're not a celebrity makeup artist, and you're not an heiress, you're a nobody." I was like, "Okay, enough with everybody telling me I'm a nobody."

• 5:37Guy Raz?

  Welcome to How I Built This, a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements they built.

• 5:49Guy Raz?

  I'm Guy Raz, and on the show today, how one woman conquered the cosmetics industry without experience, connections, funding, or even a way to sell her homegrown products, turning her company, Tarte Cosmetics, into a billion-dollar brand.

• 6:06Guy Raz?

  One of the reasons I love stories about cosmetics so much isn't because I have a natural interest in them. To be honest, I don't. But over the years, I've become really interested in business stories about cosmetics for one simple reason. And the reason is, there are so many lessons to be learned about business in cosmetics. How to market, how to sell, how to manufacture. How to bootstrap, how to grow slowly and intentionally. I could go on and on. And today's story is a great example of this thesis. Because even if you've never heard of Tarte Cosmetics, this episode is a masterclass in things like getting your foot in the door and how to come up with a product that gets people's attention.

• 6:50Guy Raz?

  And most importantly, how to weather a crisis. For those of you who may or may not know, Tarte Cosmetics is among the bestselling makeup brands in the United States. They make everything from concealers and mascaras to lipsticks and skin creams. And the company was founded by a woman without any experience or connections in the industry. Maureen Kelly was actually pursuing a career in clinical psychology. In fact, when she founded Tarte in 1999, Maureen was still a PhD student at Columbia University. She'd already completed most of her coursework. But it was through studying psychology that Maureen got intrigued by consumer behavior. And that's where she started to think about maybe starting a business.

• 7:35Guy Raz?

  And it was her husband, Mark, who really encouraged her to go for it. Maureen had always been interested in makeup. And makeup, she soon discovered, was something she could dip her toe into without a lot of startup cash. And the key, at least for Maureen, was coming up with a product so unique, it could get the attention of the influential boutiques and retailers in New York City. But within two years of launching Tarte, a life-changing tragedy almost derailed the whole company, which we'll get to. For now, what you need to know about Maureen Kelly is that she grew up in a middle-class home in Rockland County in New York. Her dad was a judge, and her mom, who was an Irish immigrant, was involved in local politics.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  My mom, growing up in Ireland, it definitely shaped who she was. And I think as a result, shaped us, especially the girls. Because she wasn't allowed to play any sports or do boy things. Like, girls and boys had very different roles in Ireland. And so, she said, when she had girls, she would make sure that they could do everything and that they could be anything they wanted. And so, that's kind of what she always said to my sisters and I. There's three girls and two boys. And she was like, you guys can do anything. You can be anything. And she was just always talking about girl power, girl power. And I feel like that's such a big thing for me now. And You know, I just, I guess I didn't think about the fact that my mom shaped that,

• 9:01Speaker 01

  you know, because of the fact that she couldn't have that.

• 9:06Guy Raz?

  How, what were you, how would you describe yourself as a student in high school?

• 9:10Speaker 01

  I would say that I did well in the classes I was interested in and not well in the classes I was not interested in. I am told that I have ADD. I was never diagnosed as that. I think back in my time, that like wasn't such a big thing. So I think that that kind of makes sense, right? With, you know, ADD, you have that hyper-focus, right, on stuff that you're interested in. So I feel like I was like a classic with that.

• 9:36Guy Raz?

  You went to a state university in New York?

• 9:38Speaker 01

  I did.

• 9:38Guy Raz?

  In Binghamton, right? And, and when you got there, what'd you think you wanted to do?

• 9:45Speaker 01

  I didn't know. I'll be honest. My sister went there first. So my, my one sister went to Georgetown, my other sister went to Cornell, and then my older sister went to Binghamton, and I visited her and classic, met a boy at a party and was like, okay, I'm just gonna go there. And of course, I got there and I was like, hey, it's me. And he was like, who are you? I don't even know who you are. I don't even remember you. And of course, I was crushed. But it was a very good early lesson. And then, yeah. And then I was up in Binghamton where it was really, really cold for a couple of years. But I finished college quick. I actually did college in two and a half years. And so I graduated and my sister was already, older sister was already living in the city, going to law school.

• 10:25Guy Raz?

  In New York.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. I was like, okay, Veronica, I'm not moving home. I'm moving in with you and I'll just sleep on your futon. And I did so. I moved to New York City and crashed on her futon. I got a bartending job and I applied to grad school.

• 10:40Guy Raz?

  This is in the early 90s, I think, right? 92, 93 time period?

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. I was really interested in psychology. It's something that's like always fascinated me and still does. You know, just, you know, like why people think the way they do and what motivates them. You know, and then consumer psychology obviously is fascinating. So I went for my master's degree in that while I bartended.

• 11:03Guy Raz?

  And while you were working on this degree, you started to have doubts about whether you wanted to pursue it?

• 11:09Speaker 01

  I did, you know? I love psychology, but I just wasn't sure. You know, part of our job, you know, or requirements as a graduate student was counseling the undergrads at Columbia. And so I would be sitting, you know, counseling them, listening, you know, doing sessions with them one on one. And I would find myself, you know, drifting off, thinking about different things. And, you know, that's the exact wrong thing to be doing when you're sitting with a therapist or a counselor. And I'd be thinking, then I'd click myself back in and, you know, give some advice or feedback and, you know, reiterate what they were saying so they, you know, recognized that I was listening to them.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  But I was thinking, gosh, I do not want to do this with my life. I don't want to do this, but I'm really far down this path, so, eh, like.

• 12:03Guy Raz?

  So maybe this is what I should do.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  What you have to do. And I think that happens to a lot of people. You get really far down a path, you know, and you just feel like I'm trapped. And I did feel like that. I felt like that. And I talked to my parents and they were like, Maureen, you're all over the place. You have to just finish this. This is just get your PhD, just get your PhD, finish your dissertation and then you can decide what you want to do.

• 12:28Guy Raz?

  And meanwhile, while you, while you were a grad student in New York, you, you met the guy who you would eventually marry, and I think in 1998, Mark Ludwigson, who, who would have a huge impact on your career and your decisions. How, how did you, how did the two of you meet?

• 12:45Speaker 01

  I met him in a bar on the Upper East Side. He was, he was a rugby playing investment banker and he had just come from like a rugby game, I think at like the New York Athletic Club. And he and his friends came into the bar and started talking to my friends and I and... We were kind of like-

• 13:04Guy Raz?

  He was roughly your age, sort of late twenties?

• 13:06Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, a couple of years older at the time, but yes, roughly my age.

• 13:10Guy Raz?

  And he was, he was working in the city, in the, in the city, he was in finance?

• 13:14Speaker 01

  He was, he was in finance at the World Trade Center and just one of those guys that lights up a room, could talk to like CEOs and janitors alike, you know, just made everybody feel like really special, just a really warm guy. He was six, um, six, three, two hundred and thirty pounds, um, a funny, just very kind, just a really, really kind person.

• 13:36Guy Raz?

  And did you guys eventually move in together?

• 13:39Speaker 01

  We did. We moved in together when I was living with my sister. We had moved out of that, um, that studio apartment when she was going to law school and we got like a two bedroom, five floor walk up on the Upper East Side, but there was like some kind of an animal in the wall that died, started smelling really bad. So I was like, okay, peace out, I'm moving across town with Mark. And she was like, what? And she was like, I'm telling mom and dad. I was like, don't you dare. Um, and she told my parents and they were not happy with me.

• 14:05Guy Raz?

  They weren't happy that you were moving in with him because you guys weren't married?

• 14:08Speaker 01

  At that age, we weren't married yet. No, my parents were very traditional. Um, so I was like, I'll just stay in a different, you know, bedroom. Of course, my parents believed that.

• 14:15Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  And then we actually wound up moving down to Stuyvesant Town. It's this like really cool rent controlled, um, development.

• 14:25Guy Raz?

  Yeah, massive, massive building.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Massive, yes.

• 14:27Guy Raz?

  Yeah. And, and so, all right, so you have this boyfriend, Mark?

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:32Guy Raz?

  And you are, but for, you know, many years, several years, you were doing this degree. He was working as an investment banker and-

• 14:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:41Guy Raz?

  And it was clear to you that you guys would eventually get married somehow?

• 14:45Speaker 01

  It was clear to me, but, um, you know, I was young for sure. He was a couple, three years older than me. Um, but he event, he proposed, um, and we got married and-

• 14:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, so he was really, really, really supportive of me and he just, I just, you know, he said, you've always talked about doing something on your own. You've always wanted to start your own company and you've been, you know, for lack of a better word, kind of afraid, you know?

• 15:12Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  Because I think-

• 15:14Guy Raz?

  But you didn't know what? You didn't know specifically what that would be?

• 15:17Speaker 01

  I didn't know exactly, but like in my heart, I really wanted to start a makeup company, but I knew that my parents wouldn't think that that was like reputable enough. You know, since I was a little girl, you know, I'd always like play with my mom's makeup and, you know, she was beautiful and I would, you know, make my own like, you know, cheek stain in like the bathtub with like shaving cream and like, you know, cough syrup or like chalk or whatever I had. And I would take like lipstick and put it on my sisters and like they're hollyhobby dolls and it was something I always loved, right? And my mom used to like, you know, make us to do these egg white masks and homemade candles and face masks and things like that and soaps. My sisters and I had like, you know, acne

• 16:00Speaker 01

  or pimples. She would like, you know, mix like turmeric or an aloe vera and like, you know-

• 16:05Guy Raz?

  Like home remedies, yeah.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  And so it was just something that I always did and loved. But to her, that wasn't like a job, you know?

• 16:13Guy Raz?

  You were, you liked cosmetics? You liked makeup? I guess. I even read that like you would give friends, like you'd make lip gloss for friends-

• 16:20Speaker 01

  I did.

• 16:20Guy Raz?

  For like holiday presents.

• 16:21Speaker 01

  I did. And I was-

• 16:22Guy Raz?

  How do you make, how do you make lip glosses? It's like petroleum jelly and, and I don't know, what do you, how do you make it?

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. We don't actually put petroleum in any of our lip products because it's a byproduct of-

• 16:33Guy Raz?

  But how would you make it for friends?

• 16:34Speaker 01

  I would use beeswax back then.

• 16:37Guy Raz?

  Oh, I got you.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:38Guy Raz?

  You'd melt beeswax into like a little container with-

• 16:40Speaker 01

  Yes, into like little jars.

• 16:42Guy Raz?

  Some, like, like, I don't know, extracts of different herbs.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Exactly. And then I'd put vanilla in to make it taste good. So, and my friends would love it, you know? And it was never anything like, oh, I'm going to start a business doing this. But it was just something that I, you know, that I always loved and I always did. And it's funny, my best friend said, you know, that was in my PhD program at Columbia. She said, I remember you, Maureen. She said, I remember having like a Stila eyeshadow palette and you like prying this eyeshadow pan from the paper compact and her saying like, what are you doing? Like, and me saying like, I just want to see how this is made. And she was like, we, we have neuroscience to do. Like, stop it. Like, stop pulling around. You know, so it was just always something I was like really interested in.

• 17:30Guy Raz?

  But you had this interest in makeup and cosmetics because you liked wearing it. I mean, you liked, I mean, you liked trying different brands out.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  I did. And I felt like, you know, when I'd go to the makeup counter and I'd get my makeup done in New York, I would look great, like so many of us do, but I'd get home and I'd be really frustrated because I'd flip over the box and it would be filled with synthetic like ingredients I could literally not even pronounce. Because remember, this is 1999, right? I mean, everything was like formulated with like all the bad stuff. And so I was like, I don't know, I just, I wasn't a business person. And I'd never created like a business plan in my life or had never done an Excel spreadsheet. But, you know, I had this like vision board that I was like slowly and surely creating of like all of these like cutouts and tearouts from like magazines and things like that.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  And I just wanted to create this like makeup line of like makeup that was like filled without the bad stuff, like the parabens or petrolatum or, um, you know, make it cruelty free because, you know, my mom grew up in Ireland on a farm. And so we had rabbits and dogs and snakes and all the things I can imagine like testing on animals. I wanted it to be mostly vegan and then, you know, filled with like lots of good for you ingredients. But that was really hard.

• 18:50Guy Raz?

  But there, I mean, there's a difference between having an idea and saying, God, what if we could make a makeup brand that did this and this and cool packaging?

• 18:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:59Guy Raz?

  And I want to do that. There's a difference between saying that and actually the leap to do that is quite large, right? And there's a lot that has to happen.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  There is.

• 19:09Guy Raz?

  Including like understanding the landscape and understanding how to make makeup and where it gets manufactured and how to finance it. What, what did you do? How did you first start to learn about the industry? What, I mean, there are lots of things you had to know.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:24Guy Raz?

  Before you could actually hit the button. So where did you start?

• 19:27Speaker 01

  Well, I opened the Yellow Pages to find suppliers. And I just started making calls, call after call. And guess what? Nobody called me back. Shocker.

• 19:37Guy Raz?

  These are companies that, that make. Cosmetics or that actually make the packaging or both? Or?

• 19:43Speaker 01

  They make the cosmetics.

• 19:44Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  And I just started calling these labs and no one was calling me back because I was a nobody. Remember, there was no social media back then, no Facebook, no TikTok, no Instagram. And so then what did I do? I just got in my car and I drove across toward Rushington Bridge and I started going to the suppliers, the labs, and sitting in the waiting room.

• 20:06Guy Raz?

  Yep. Are there labs in New Jersey or New York?

• 20:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, Florida, New Jersey, New York, Italy, of course, like all over the world, but absolutely. There are in New York and New Jersey.

• 20:21Guy Raz?

  And how did you get a foot in the door to any of them? How did you get a meeting to find out? I mean, you were a nobody.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  I was a nobody, exactly. So many people told me that I was a nobody.

• 20:32Guy Raz?

  You had no experience? You had no, you weren't even in business?

• 20:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:35Guy Raz?

  So how did you even get a, like, what was your ask? Was your ask, hey, I want to find out more about this? Or I have an idea to make a product line?

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, at that point, I just said, I am starting a company. Because then I feel like you have to commit to those people. Of course, like behind the scenes in my apartment.

• 20:52Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  I was like, oh, my gosh, what am I doing? This is a crazy idea. But with the labs, I would say to the receptionist, I'm Maureen Kelly. I left a message for your head chemist.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  I haven't heard back. So I was in the area at another meeting and so I figured I would pop by. You know, just kind of smoking and joking a little bit, I guess. And so, yeah, eventually, and most of them were like, most of them were like, they're not available for a meeting. But, you know, a couple of them came out and I had meetings with them and I shared my vision.

• 21:29Guy Raz?

  And what would you ask?

• 21:30Speaker 01

  I just said, I'm starting a company, a makeup company that is formulated without parabens and I want it to be cruelty free. I want it to be infused with, you know, all of these good for you ingredients and keep out the bad stuff.

• 21:43Guy Raz?

  And you said you wanted to make what? Like concealer and blush?

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Eyeshadow.

• 21:48Guy Raz?

  And mascara and lipstick?

• 21:49Speaker 01

  Exactly. And they laughed at me. They laughed at me because they said, listen, if customers wanted that, the big guys would have done it. Lauter or L'Oréal would have done it. Customers don't care about parabens being in products because remember, this only, parabens only came out of things like a handful of years ago. Customers don't care about cruelty free. This is 1999, right? So, you know, no thanks. But I did find one chemist who thought I was crazy, but he was like, I don't agree with you, but you know, we kind of take on one charity case like, you know, every year or so. And you know what? I'll do it for you. And I was like,

• 22:25Guy Raz?

  Where was this chemist based?

• 22:26Speaker 01

  In New Jersey.

• 22:28Guy Raz?

  And this is, and this is a manufacturing facility that made cosmetics for a bunch of different brands?

• 22:33Speaker 01

  They did, for big brands, actually. So, you know, they're very established and so they could take a risk on like a small little thing. Like, you know, it was like a pet project, you know?

• 22:43Guy Raz?

  All right. So you, you meet this, and by the way, what's, do you remember the name of this guy, this scientist?

• 22:50Speaker 01

  Russ.

• 22:50Guy Raz?

  Russ, okay. And, and Russ says, yeah, okay, I can, I can probably make something for you. And was it that going to be expensive to do? Or was it, like, how much was it going to cost you to have him make just a prototype of, of a few, you know, products?

• 23:07Speaker 01

  It wasn't crazy expensive because he knew that I didn't have a lot of money. That was the other thing. So either you're a celebrity or you're like an heiress making a makeup line. And so he knew I didn't have a ton of money. And so it wasn't crazy expensive. The other thing is I couldn't afford to have them usually, you know, now when we have makeup made, they put it in the package, they pack it out, they put it in the box, everything. Like, I wasn't having them do any of that.

• 23:35Guy Raz?

  You had to get it like loose in bags or whatever, and then you would, and by the way, because he was doing this cheek stain.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  And then pressed eyeshadow. And I also did a pressed blush.

• 23:50Guy Raz?

  So I'm just like thinking logistically, the cheek stand, I can, because it's like a gel, so I can see how you would package that, but he was going to give you like-

• 23:58Speaker 01

  Like literally pans of eyeshadow and pans of blush. And then I got the packaging separately. And then I had pizza and wine parties because I couldn't afford the lab to, you know, press the tins, the makeup in the actual packaging. And so my friends and my family like basically did it till their fingers like had blisters on it.

• 24:24Guy Raz?

  And so it wasn't going to be that expensive for you to do that. You could, you basically with your income, you could-

• 24:29Speaker 01

  I did.

• 24:30Guy Raz?

  You could get this made. And how much-

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Well, Mark and I had $20,000 in savings.

• 24:35Guy Raz?

  Right.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  And then I put the rest on credit cards.

• 24:38Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Do you remember like while this lab said, okay, we'll make this for you? And were you going back and forth to sort of help them fine tune it?

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, for sure.

• 24:50Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I was like, okay, this isn't soft enough. It's not silky enough. You know, just I love this color. I don't love that color. So, yeah, just giving them lots of feedback is just a non-makeup artist's regular girl.

• 25:05Guy Raz?

  Yeah. I guess when you started the company, there was this person named Troy Surratt-

• 25:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:12Guy Raz?

  Or Surratt that you worked with. And I guess Troy was a makeup artist that worked for you on your wedding day. Tell me about Troy's involvement at the beginning, because I know Troy left pretty soon after you launched.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was a super talented celebrity makeup artist. And he had so many projects as a makeup artist. Like, you know, in the beginning, I really doubted, you know, because I wasn't a makeup artist, I doubted myself, as you know, we all do right all along. I felt like I needed a makeup artist to help me, you know, create this line. But in the end, you know, we kind of had a different vision of approaches for like beauty. Like, I wanted it to cater to everyday women and not high-profile clientele. So like, ultimately, it made sense that, you know, he'd become a silent partner after a year or so. And just eventually, I bought him out.

• 26:03Guy Raz?

  Right. All right. So you're, you're kind of working on this, this prototype. And meantime, I mean, it's one thing to, you know, to say, hey, to go live and say, hey, here are the ingredients I want you to use, and I want these three things. And then it's another thing to create a brand out of it, right?

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:22Guy Raz?

  So let's talk about, about that side. What, the name Tart, was that the name you came up with from the beginning?

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Um, I had a different name. It was called Plume. And then I second guessed myself, and I switched it to Tart, which, you know, tart is like a, is a treat. It's like something yummy.

• 26:39Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  And I just felt like I wanted this line to be like a healthy treat for your skin.

• 26:45Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  I will say, it became a little problematic later on.

• 26:49Guy Raz?

  Well, yeah, I'm curious, because your mom was from Ireland, and in Ireland and the UK, that word means something very different.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Yes. Oh, my goodness. I definitely didn't think it through.

• 26:58Guy Raz?

  What did your mom say when you said, "It's called Tart Cosmetics"?

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Well, my mom went on T A R T dot com, and you can imagine what was on there. It was not good. She like screamed, I think. And then I was told eventually that I would never be able to launch in France and England, specifically because of the name. And luckily, we're a top brand in both now. But yeah, you know, I, I just, I didn't think of it that way.

• 27:24Guy Raz?

  Yeah. And, and you spelled it with an E, T A R T E, presumably because it was, was that a domain name that you could get?

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly. Well, no, actually, I had Tartcosmetics.com. This is how not savvy I was as a businessperson back then. T A R T E dot com was taken by a guy, like Scott Tardy, his name was. And many years later, he sold it to me, which was very, very kind of him. But I didn't launch the website for, actually for years. If you think back then, I feel like dot com sales, like,

• 27:57Guy Raz?

  Yeah, it wasn't really a thing.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  Big thing, yeah. But, you know, you were asking me about like my first product, and my cheek stain was, you know, was definitely it. And, you know, when I was asking him to put in all of these like ingredients, they definitely thought I was crazy.

• 28:13Guy Raz?

  And once that you got the order from this lab, right? And you've got thousands of pieces of makeup. I keep calling them pieces. I don't know if that's the right word.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  No, for sure.

• 28:24Guy Raz?

  But basically.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Compacts or pieces. Yeah, exactly.

• 28:27Guy Raz?

  And then you had to package them. Where, by the way, where did you get the packaging from?

• 28:31Speaker 01

  So I got the packaging from a packaging company that I found and talked them into doing this amazing lavender fabric packaging. No one in the industry had ever done it. We were the first ever. I look back, I wish I patented that, but I was not business savvy.

• 28:50Guy Raz?

  Fabric, like, I'm thinking of, for example, like, I don't know, a lipstick case.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 28:57Guy Raz?

  Or mascara. Like mascara comes in a brush.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:01Guy Raz?

  So the, right, the tube was fabric, like wrapped in fabric?

• 29:05Speaker 01

  Outside of it. So like our lights camera lashes mascara to this day has the fabric around the outside of it. And no one had done that.

• 29:12Guy Raz?

  And was your name brand on there too?

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:15Guy Raz?

  Printed on there?

• 29:15Speaker 01

  Tart was on there. Mm-hmm.

• 29:17Guy Raz?

  And did you design the logo?

• 29:19Speaker 01

  It was Century Gothic font from the computer. And it still is the same font to this day, all these years later.

• 29:27Guy Raz?

  Yeah, and that was it. It just said Tart on it.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  It was super simple. Yeah.

• 29:32Guy Raz?

  And, all right, so you are, you've got now probably 50, what, $40,000, $50,000 worth of product in that apartment that you paid for?

• 29:42Speaker 01

  Yes. And you can't move.

• 29:45Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  I mean, it's boxes everywhere. I mean, I remember my friend came over. She was pregnant. She had to turn sideways to like get to the bathroom.

• 29:52Guy Raz?

  And what did Mark, and Mark was supportive of all this?

• 29:55Speaker 01

  He was. I mean, he was like, this is so crazy. But, you know, he was such a good guy. He was definitely supportive of it. And, you know, you can't be half pregnant. We were, I was already like too far down the path. So then I felt like, woo, I'm legit. I have a company here. But I also realized, okay, I have to be able to sell it somewhere.

• 30:11Guy Raz?

  You could sell it.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 30:12Guy Raz?

  Yeah, I mean, I mean, this is like today, I guess you could start at like a farmer's market or there are tons of boutiques that you could go to online. What was your game plan? Did you think you would go to like small, little? Independent boutiques and see if they would carry it?

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Um, no. So Sephora wasn't even in the United States yet at that point.

• 30:30Guy Raz?

  But I mean, like mom and pop boutiques, that's what I'm talking about.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 30:34Guy Raz?

  Was that what you were thinking?

• 30:34Speaker 01

  For sure. I was thinking, you know, I was in New York, so I thought like, I'm gonna try and get into Bendels or Barney's or Bergdorf's.

• 30:41Guy Raz?

  Wow.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Like the three Bs in my mind.

• 30:43Guy Raz?

  Yeah, that's it. Those are pretty, I mean, right, and those are sort of iconic stores.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:50Guy Raz?

  Bendel, Bergdorf Goodman and Barney's, which isn't, I don't think is there anymore.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Besides Bigelow, yeah, there was not too many like small boutiques in New York City, you know, at the time.

• 31:01Guy Raz?

  So how were you going to get into those stores? I mean, I have to assume that by and large, the buyers there have relationships with, you know, going way back with other, right?

• 31:15Speaker 01

  For sure, yeah.

• 31:16Guy Raz?

  Brands.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  So I just started calling and leaving messages and I was so excited in the beginning. Guy, I said, you know, I have this brand tart, it's amazing, it's high performance naturals, it's different than anything you've ever tried. And, you know, I left my first message for each of them and then, you know, they didn't call me back, but that was okay, you know, it was just a message. So then I was like, okay, well, I'll wait, you know, it's like, how long is too long, you know, not long enough and how, just looked desperate. And so then I called a couple of days later, I left another message, you know, and I would call and then hang up because I would be hoping that I'd be able to catch one of them.

• 31:51Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  But, you know, what you realize is these merchandisers and buyers never pick up their phones ever. So that was just never gonna happen. I've learned that since then.

• 32:01Guy Raz?

  So you'd leave voicemails?

• 32:02Speaker 01

  Yes, I kept leaving voicemails and I was getting more and more desperate.

• 32:07Guy Raz?

  Because nobody was calling you back?

• 32:09Speaker 01

  No, because remember I was a nobody.

• 32:11Guy Raz?

  And you had put down Tens of thousands of dollars on your credit card and you had all this product.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  And I was going to go out of business before I started.

• 32:20Guy Raz?

  Wow.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  And full panic, full panic has now kicked in. And I called, I called and left a message for the Bendels buyer saying, this is my final message. You know, I just had to leave you one more because I grew up shopping in Bendels with my mom, which is completely not true. And I kind of felt bad leaving this white lie. You know, there's a Catholic guilt, but I just wanted to leave you one last message because it was my favorite store shopping, growing up with my mom. We're about to sign tomorrow with Berkdorff Goodman.

• 32:51Guy Raz?

  You, you basically made it up.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  I made it up. Yes, I made it up.

• 32:57Guy Raz?

  When we come back in just a moment, how Maureen's relentless determination, plus that little white lie, paid off. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to How I Built This.

• 33:19Guy Raz?

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• 34:01Guy Raz?

  The agents bring speed and scale and people bring taste, judgment and control. Learn how you can get more out of your site from a Framer specialist or get started building for free today at framer.com/built for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan. That's framer.com/built. Rules and restrictions may apply. AI isn't just opening new business opportunities, it's changing the way businesses get work done. The questions they ask, the decisions they make, the routine tasks they can hand off. That's the idea behind NetSuite Next, the next generation of NetSuite with AI woven into the tools your business already relies on.

• 34:46Guy Raz?

  NetSuite Next surfaces insights exactly when you need them, puts agents to work on routine tasks and problems, and lets you ask complex questions in plain language, like talking to a knowledgeable colleague. But technology is only part of the story. AI is also reshaping how people and teams work together, and that shift is already underway. That's why NetSuite wants to put a new, expert-created business guide in your hands today. It's called "Aligning for the Agentic Era: How AI is Changing Everyday Work." And right now, it's yours, absolutely free. Inside, you'll discover how AI could reshape work across your entire organization, and how to position your business to prosper from it.

• 35:31Guy Raz?

  If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get NetSuite's free business guide, "Aligning for the Agentic Era: How AI is Changing Everyday Work", at netsuite.com/built. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com/built. netsuite.com/built. Stripe is built for whatever comes next because the pace of change has never been faster than it is right now. New business models, new currencies, and new expectations for speed, reliability, and scale. Stripe builds financial infrastructure that helps businesses start, grow, and operate globally. From payments and billing to fraud protection and cross-border payouts,

• 36:15Guy Raz?

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• 36:54Guy Raz?

  Hey, welcome back to How I Built This. I'm Guy Raz. So it's the start of the new millennium and Maureen is grinding away, cold calling luxury retailers, running her business from home, and desperately pitching anyone in the industry about her makeup. But then, that little white lie wrapped in Catholic guilt pays off. The buyer at Bendels calls back.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  She said, "I'll give you 15 minutes on, you know, like next week. Come in and show me your stuff." And so I panicked.

• 37:27Guy Raz?

  Like that day, like that week or next week?

• 37:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And so I went in. I showed her my product because I knew if I could just get it in front of her, she would see that it was different. I had all of this special fabric packaging and I had my cheek stain, right, Guy?

• 37:41Guy Raz?

  But how did you prepare for that? I mean, that's high stakes there, right? Because Bendels was like on Fifth Avenue, I'm pretty sure. And it was like so luxurious and influential. And like you had to make that work. Weren't you nervous?

• 37:56Speaker 01

  I was really nervous. I was super, super nervous.

• 38:00Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  I went in, I met her, I showed her the products. And she said, "I love it. I think it's really different."

• 38:07Guy Raz?

  Wow.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  "But, but we have a press breakfast next week. And all the editors are coming. I'll give you a tiny, like booth in the corner. If the editors respond to it, I'll give you a counter. But if they don't, then sorry, no." I was like, "Oh, my gosh."

• 38:24Guy Raz?

  Wow. So it's basically she was saying that the press is coming next week to see a bunch of new products that they were considering, right? And she would allow you to present there. And if they liked your stuff or they, you know, she would, she'd put you in the store?

• 38:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, she would allow me to have a little corner booth, basically, at this breakfast.

• 38:42Guy Raz?

  Did she ask you any questions like, "Yeah, what are you selling? And where's your stuff available?"

• 38:47Speaker 01

  She did not. No, she didn't.

• 38:48Guy Raz?

  You just purely looked at your...

• 38:50Speaker 01

  That was it.

• 38:50Guy Raz?

  You just, she just assumed that you had this new brand?

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Yes, that I was legit.

• 38:54Guy Raz?

  And she didn't ask you anything else? So what's your background? What, like?

• 38:57Speaker 01

  No.

• 38:57Guy Raz?

  Have you worked for Revlon or Estee Lauder? Nothing?

• 39:00Speaker 01

  No, no. And so my fate hung in the balance at this press breakfast. So I was so, this is where I was really nervous because I knew this was it. So...

• 39:09Guy Raz?

  And these were journalists from where, like Cosmo?

• 39:11Speaker 01

  Cosmo, Vogue, Elle, Allure, all of the big guys, which, and they were everything back then, right? They made you or broke you. And so I went out, I went to Ann Taylor and I got myself a suit, which, let's be honest, I was, getting a suit for this was the complete wrong thing, but I didn't know.

• 39:26Guy Raz?

  No.

• 39:27Speaker 01

  I tuck the tags in the back because I knew I was gonna have to return it.

• 39:30Guy Raz?

  Because it was expensive.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:32Guy Raz?

  Ann Taylor really wasn't, not to disparage Ann Taylor, but not really the look of tart cosmetics.

• 39:38Speaker 01

  No, no, no. And a suit? What was I thinking, a skirt suit?

• 39:41Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  I mean, I was so, not cool at all. And so I was there at my counter and all of these beauty editors were fabulous. They all had champagne in their hands.

• 39:53Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Gorgeous, walking around with their champagne, looking at the different products. And I can remember the beauty editor from Vogue, Sarah Brown, came up to me and said, "What is this and who are you?" And I was like, "I'm Maureen Kelly and this is tart." And she's like, "Okay, so you're not a celebrity makeup artist and you're not an heiress, you're a nobody." I was like, "Okay, enough with everybody telling me I'm a nobody." Of course, I didn't say that to her, but I was like, "Great, you're right, but this is amazing and it's so different and here's why." And she was like, "Okay, well, I'm gonna shoot it. Come to my office in two days." And I was like, "Oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God," you know, trying to play it cool. And then, you know, five minutes later, the beauty editor from Elle magazine came up

• 40:36Speaker 01

  and was like, "What is this and who are you? I love it, it's really different." She picked up the cheek stain, "Tell me about it." And she's like, "I wanna shoot it next week, I want it in my next issue."

• 40:46Guy Raz?

  Can I ask you about the cheek stain?

• 40:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:48Guy Raz?

  So, I'm, forgive me because I don't wear makeup.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  Of course, of course.

• 40:52Guy Raz?

  Usually. I have, in the past. I was a TV reporter 20 years ago. So I got to learn how to use makeup. But very rarely wear it these days unless...

• 41:05Speaker 01

  Gotta get you some shape tape.

• 41:07Guy Raz?

  All right, okay, I'm in, I could use it. Anyway, I'm trying to understand this thing about cheek stain. It was something that you put out there and they were like, wow, what is this thing called cheek? Because I would see cheek stain and I would think-

• 41:23Speaker 01

  Jarring.

• 41:24Guy Raz?

  I don't want, I would think weird. I don't want to stain my cheeks.

• 41:27Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 41:28Guy Raz?

  I don't want to put stain on my cheeks. It's just weird.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Totally, and it looked like that because it looked like a jar, like this jar of like the cranberry sauce, like that gross like eggnog from the can. It's dark, but it comes out really pretty and natural and it just gives you this like beautiful flush.

• 41:43Guy Raz?

  Like a reddish light, sort of like a Renoir painting.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly like that guy.

• 41:50Guy Raz?

  But it was, I mean, obviously this is a product that's become massively successful for you today, which we're going to get to later, but this was basically, I guess you could kind of describe it, and again, I'm describing this for people who are not familiar with makeup, so forgive me, Maureen, because I'm going to sound like a complete idiot, but it's sort of like a giant lipstick tube for your cheeks.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  That's exactly right, and it's gel.

• 42:11Guy Raz?

  And it's gel, okay.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  And so you just like dab it on and then you blend it with your fingers and you go, which is really cool. So these editors were kind of looking at that and they were looking at the fabric packaging, which they also photographed, and it had double-ended eyeliners. And they said like, wow, like this is all brand new and really different. And I think that's the thing that saved me because I hadn't worked at Lauter, I hadn't worked at L'Oréal or Lancome. I didn't go into this feeling like, wow, well, this sells and that sells, so I have to do that, right? I didn't launch with a mascara. And mascara is typically a brand's number one selling product. I didn't have that for five years. And definitely, Guy, people told me, you're a bad business person, you have to have a

• 42:54Speaker 01

  mascara, just throw one out there, even if it's not like something that you love, love, love. And I said, why would I do that? Like, if I don't find one that's different from everything on the market and formulated without the bad stuff, I'm just not going to do it.

• 43:05Guy Raz?

  So they saw this thing and they're like, wow, this is different. This is really interesting.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  And I was trying to play it cool.

• 43:10Guy Raz?

  You were trying to play it cool and- But clearly you were in.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  I was.

• 43:15Guy Raz?

  I mean, that was.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  That was it.

• 43:16Guy Raz?

  That was gonna get you in.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  And once I got in these magazines, guy, it, we catapulted. I mean, of course, the beauty buyer at Bendals said, okay, you've got a counter. That's it. And you can have an event next month. And I was like, what do you, what do you mean, an event? Like, what does that entail? Oh, my gosh. But she did say you have to make X amount of dollars a month to be able to stay in Bendals. It wasn't just like, you're in.

• 43:38Guy Raz?

  I mean, you, you had tens of thousands of dollars of product. But I'm assuming Bendle didn't buy you out, right?

• 43:45Speaker 01

  No, no, definitely not.

• 43:46Guy Raz?

  When you say their first order was a lot, and we're not talking about a million dollars.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  No, no, definitely not.

• 43:49Guy Raz?

  Or even a hundred thousand dollars. We're talking about 20, 30,000 dollars.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 43:53Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 43:55Guy Raz?

  And, and you had the, and you had the product ready to go?

• 43:58Speaker 01

  I had the products ready to go. And then, you know, we had our first event at Bendals and, you know, we had our counter. We had our first event. It was exciting.

• 44:09Guy Raz?

  And you just stood there talking about the product to whoever stopped by your counter?

• 44:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I mean, you know, I didn't know what to expect. So I got my brothers and sisters to help me. I bought my brother a purple tie and I had him bartend. I brought in like $8 champagne and put like Sweet Tarts in a glass and I called them Tartinis. And so we were doing Tartinis and makeovers.

• 44:30Guy Raz?

  Wow. That's so smart. You had, oh, because it's tart cosmetics and you put Sweet Tarts in a glass and called them, and you served Tartinis?

• 44:38Speaker 01

  Cheap and cheerful. I didn't, you know?

• 44:40Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  And I, I kept the bottle under the counter, knowing that, of course, they would be expecting like Veuve Clicquot or something like that. But, and my sisters and I pulled like potential customers off Fifth Avenue, off the street, just telling these women that we were serving like Tartinis and doing touch-ups. Like, after work, of course, they were gonna pop in. And if they're getting a drink and getting a touch-up, why not? And it was really kind of like guerrilla marketing, you know, before I even knew what that was.

• 45:02Guy Raz?

  That's brilliant. A Tartini. I'd never thought about that. I'm not saying I'm gonna go run out and put Sweet Tarts in a martini glass and pour champagne over it. But it's a great idea when you're marketing tart cosmetics.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  Yes, definitely. And then, you know what? I was like, okay, I've gotta like, keep getting press. So. I couldn't, we had no budget, so I couldn't afford, you know, $15 messenger. So I would put on a baseball hat and I would drop the press packages myself to, you know, in New York City, to like the Conde Nast building, or like the Hearst buildings. Those are the ones that had like all of the big, you know, beauty magazines. Cause, you know, I just, I wanted to get in all those magazines, cause how, it was the influencers of the day. But I would be like, oh my gosh, I hope, you know, I don't hope, I hope I don't see any editors, like, oh my goodness, like these women that I saw at the Bendel's breakfast.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  Meanwhile, these women would never have like, recognized me from like a hole in the wall. I would be going in through the backside of the building, right? But then I now I'm getting appointments with, at these, you know, at, once it ran in Elle and once it ran in Vogue, all of the magazines were calling, saying, you know, I want to like, see your products, like, you know, come in and tell me about it. And so then I would like, take the baseball hat off, get dressed up, and go in through the front door.

• 46:27Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  And it was, it was, you know, really pretty exciting.

• 46:31Guy Raz?

  And you would go, you would go in yourself?

• 46:33Speaker 01

  I would go in myself.

• 46:33Guy Raz?

  With a package of a bunch of stuff and deliver, hand deliver it, because if it was sent to the mail, maybe it might get to them, but if it's hand delivered.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  Exactly. You know they're getting it.

• 46:45Guy Raz?

  It feels like, hey, a messenger sent this to you.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 46:48Guy Raz?

  Open it up.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  Exactly. And then the phone lines started ringing. I mean, I had to put fake names on the phone lines, like I'd have my friends and family, like, say like, hi, this is, you know, Jen from operations, blah, blah, blah, like makeup phone line, so it seemed like we were an actual company. And then they just started ringing as these, it started to like, hit the magazines.

• 47:12Guy Raz?

  Still doing this out of your apartment?

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Still doing it out of my apartment.

• 47:16Guy Raz?

  And, and working with this lab in New Jersey?

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, and I started to get offer, calls from like Sephora and QVC, and I just said like, absolutely not, I can't, you know, we're, we're, we're not ready, ready yet for that. I felt like, you know, I didn't want to over promise and under deliver, because I just feel like, once you burn a bridge, you don't get a second chance.

• 47:38Guy Raz?

  And, and were you thinking? Maybe I should find some investors or not really.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  No, not really. You know, I never started it to like grow it, to sell it.

• 47:47Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  And I feel like it was a very different time then. And I just, I just started it because I, it was a passion of mine and I, I loved it.

• 47:58Guy Raz?

  And it was just you really? Or did you, were you able to hire somebody to help you?

• 48:02Speaker 01

  It was me and then I had a couple of interns, actually. One of which is, one of whom is still with me. She's my head of creative. Yes, I have, still have some of the women that have been with me all of these years, which is pretty incredible.

• 48:19Guy Raz?

  All right. So you are now trying to figure out, you know, strategic rethinking, right, as you're, you're getting more and more demand.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 48:27Guy Raz?

  But still in, in bendles.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  And I'm meeting my vendors at a coffee shop.

• 48:30Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  You know, a couple of blocks away because they couldn't come to my office.

• 48:34Guy Raz?

  Right. Cause you didn't have an office.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 48:37Guy Raz?

  And being in New York was a huge advantage because that's the center of the fashion world in the US and maybe even in the world.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  It really was.

• 48:44Guy Raz?

  And you're also in New York on September 11th.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 48:50Guy Raz?

  2001.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  I was.

• 48:53Guy Raz?

  And Mark worked there. He worked in the World Trade Center.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  He did. Yeah. So, um, yeah, my world came to a halt for sure on that day. You know, Mark called me in the morning and I didn't know anything was happening, but he called me and said like, hey, Mo, I just want you to know everything's fine. And I said, wait, what do you mean? What's going on? And he said, you know, a plane hit the first tower, but I'm okay. And they're just, you know, I could hear them talking over the loudspeaker. And he said, they're telling us to go back to our desks. And Mark had been there for the first Trade Center incident.

• 49:34Guy Raz?

  That was, that was one in 1993.

• 49:37Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah. So I was like, okay, are you sure everything's okay? And he was like, yeah, I'm completely fine. I gotta go. They're telling us to go back to our desks. I was like, all right, I love you. And he's like, I love you too. And then that was the last time I spoke to him. I flipped on the TV.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  And I was like, okay, well, he said he's fine, but let me just see what's going on here. So I flipped on the TV. And, you know, I don't know, like, maybe, I can't remember now, I just blacked out a lot of that time, to be honest. Five or 10 minutes later, I watched as a plane crashed into that tower. And I just remember, you know, like, just collapsing to my knees and really watching as he was killed, as the second tower fell. But then, you know, I just, I mean, I just was destroyed, obviously. But then, like, somewhere in the back of my brain, I felt like, no, he's gonna be okay. He's fine.

• 50:36Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, he got out. Like, I don't know how I could have thought he got out, but I felt like he got out. So I, like, waited for him to come running through the door. And some of his rugby-playing, like, investment banking friends did come to my door. Like, their clothes were tattered and covered in ashes and, like, bleeding, wanting to know if Mark had made it out and had run, like, the, like, 50 or 60 or blocks, like, home, like, they did. I mean, it was cra- you know, their shirts were torn off. I mean, it was horrific, but he didn't. And I was like, well, I gotta wait here because, you know, all the phone lines were knocked out. You couldn't get a signal, like, nothing. So I was like, well, I can't, I'm not gonna leave, I've gotta wait, because he's gonna come through the door any minute, he's just gonna come through the door.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Any second, yeah. But he didn't, he didn't come through the door, so, yeah.

• 51:28Guy Raz?

  Wow.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  Phew. Yeah. So I then drove to a lot of the hospitals in the city, and that was horrible, because I thought, well, maybe he'll be at a hospital. And that was so sad, because there was all the nurses and the doctors waiting outside, front, like, tons of them with wheelchairs, which is like a ghost town. You could just drive in New York, because, you know, no one was on the street. I mean, it was just ashes, just a mile thick. But they were just, like, waiting for people to come, you know, but there was nobody to help, so, yeah. And I just, yeah, I don't know, that was it.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  I mean, I woke up in the morning and I looked out the window and I just honestly couldn't understand how it wasn't all a dream, you know?

• 52:28Guy Raz?

  I can't imagine what, just what that was like for you and your family and his family and my God, in the middle of a tragedy that touched thousands and thousands and thousands of people, right? All the families of people who didn't make it. And you were, that was it. I mean, you were, you were on your own.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:58Guy Raz?

  You were about 28, 29.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:01Guy Raz?

  Something like that.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  I just turned 30 and I just thought like, I'm a 30 year old widow and I've, I'd been with him for a decade and I've lost the love of my life, you know? This is, this is it. I don't even want to go on, honestly, is how I felt. But, and the city was locked down, you know? It was terrible. I mean, it had like that ash cloud for months and months and, you know, over time, people just slowly got back to living, but I just felt like my life was over.

• 53:32Guy Raz?

  Did you, did you think that, that you were not going to be able to continue with this business idea after that happened?

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, I didn't want to continue with anything after that happened, period. But, you know, my family and my friends, I mean, didn't leave me alone for one second. I mean, someone stayed with me every single night and every single day. And, you know, they just said, you know, Mark wouldn't want you, you know, Mark was the one that encouraged you to do this.

• 54:06Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  So, yeah, like he would be really sad and disappointed if you let this all go, which I kind of felt was like a little bit mean at the time, because, but then it fueled me, you know?

• 54:18Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 54:19Speaker 01

  Because, and I just became like a walking zombie and I kept hurt going in his memory, basically, a year after it started.

• 54:27Guy Raz?

  How long did you? I read about a brief thing that you mentioned about his memorial service, which was, you said it was more of a celebration, really, because he was that kind of person that he would have preferred people to kind of make jokes about him and remember funny things about him.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, he was just larger than life. I didn't want to have a funeral for him. I wanted it to be a memorial. I mean, everyone was just telling amazing stories about him and drinking and laughing and crying, obviously. It was the New York Athletic Club and all of his teammates. And I would say, I almost said office mates, but no, they're all gone. I mean, I would open up our wedding album and literally every single person in it was gone. It was just, I mean, almost every single person in their office, like, if they weren't there maybe that day they made it, but that was really it. Just decimated.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  But he was just such an amazing guy, like, the most incredible person in the world.

• 55:31Guy Raz?

  What company did he work for or firm?

• 55:35Speaker 01

  He worked for Keith Rattenwood's. And they were amazing after. I mean, they really were. They're such a good company. To like, you know, I didn't have kids, unfortunately. I wish I did. But my best friend was pregnant with Mark's best friend from the firm. She was a week pregnant with his baby. Her husband, she was a week pregnant. And they were just so good to all of the widows and then the surviving children and families. So I became her kind of, Brent was his name. So like, I was with her when she had her C-section. And I mean, it was a tough, you know?

• 56:20Speaker 01

  I went with her to spread his ashes on Seal Beach in California.

• 56:26Guy Raz?

  How, how long did it, was it before you were able to say, all right, I'm, I gotta get back to this, this thing that I started?

• 56:38Speaker 01

  I don't even know. I can't even remember. Honestly, I blacked out so much of that time.

• 56:43Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  That it's weird. It's just like gone from my mind.

• 56:47Guy Raz?

  You were like, like, like numb?

• 56:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:50Guy Raz?

  Just kind of unconnected to the world around you?

• 56:53Speaker 01

  Right. And, you know, as I started to kind of try to go back to work a little bit, you know, people would say like, oh, Maureen, you should, you know, you should, you should, you have to answer this email or you have to do this. It would be like, good for you. Remember, the office was in our apartment. So I would work during the day a little bit. And when everybody left, like the interns, and I had one or two employees at that point, I would just like collapse in the bed that Mark and I shared at night.

• 57:22Speaker 01

  So, yeah. And I kept it in that apartment for many years, which, looking back, that probably wasn't the healthiest thing that I could have done many years.

• 57:32Guy Raz?

  How were you, just for your own mental health, how were you coping? I mean, were you, did you have someone to talk to, a therapist or family? I mean?

• 57:44Speaker 01

  I went on like multi-hour walks every day. I would walk, our office was on the Lower East Side. And so I would just like walk on the East River all the way down to South Street Seaport. And sometimes I would do it at night. And my family was like, you can't do that at night. That's really dangerous. So, yeah. I mean, not that, not the healthiest, but, and then, you know, at the time, my office, like, the girls would go for walks with me, which was really nice. So.

• 58:14Guy Raz?

  Yeah. I mean, and, and people who experience grief like that, you know, they talk about it coming and going. There are times where it's really intense and, and times where you can manage.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:28Guy Raz?

  Did that last a long time?

• 58:30Speaker 01

  It lasted a long time. Yeah, it did. I mean, we were together for a decade. So, and then nine 11, remember is such a, you know, so like, it's just every year, you know? I mean, that part is tough. It comes back in the worst kind of way, you know? Because that's not how I wanted to remember Mark. Like, by that, the bad stuff, I want to remember all of the good stuff.

• 58:59Guy Raz?

  When we come back in just a moment, how Maureen grapples with grief and figures out a way forward for Tarte and for herself. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to How I Built This.

• 59:29Guy Raz?

  Hey, welcome back to How I Built This. I'm Guy Raz. So by 2002, Maureen is picking up the pieces of Tarte while learning to manage her grief. And pretty soon, she moves the company out of her apartment and into an office. Her main client is still the luxury retail store Bendels, but then the cosmetic chain Sephora comes knocking.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  When I met with them for the first time, I thought it was just meeting with like one or two people. And they brought like David Slatiano, who at the time was like the head. And it was like 10 people. So I was like, oh, my gosh, I was feeling very overwhelmed. And it was just me. And they said, OK, you know, this brand is amazing. We've read about it everywhere. We've seen it in Bendels. We want to launch it. We want to launch it in, you know, all of our stores. And I was like, thank you so much. That's so flattering. But I can't launch it in all of your stores, but I could launch it in like three stores.

• 1:00:25Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  He laughed at me and he was like, I can't launch it in three stores. That's crazy. How about, you know, how about like, fine, we'll meet somewhere in the middle. Like, how about 100 stores? I was like, I can't launch it in 100 stores. Maybe I could like do five stores. I think I settled with like 15 stores. So we started the dot com first and then, and then, you know, we rolled out to, four months later, to stores, 15 stores.

• 1:00:51Guy Raz?

  All right. So you get picked up by Sephora, but, but still in a sort of a small scale. And I guess, you know, you're still kind of, you're growing small. I mean, you're, you're still, the cash flow that is financing the business, right? You're not, were you taking out loans?

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  I wasn't taking out loans. Now I'm using my, my nine 11 fund, which is really tough because, you know, I knew that this is what Mark wanted for me, but it also felt like, oh, my gosh, if I make a mistake and screw this up in any way, shape or form, I have like, not only failed myself, but I failed Mark. So it's just like.

• 1:01:35Guy Raz?

  So, I mean, it is amazing. I mean, his legacy really is wrapped up in this company.

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  It really is in every way.

• 1:01:43Guy Raz?

  Yeah. So after his, his, his death, obviously the, his company, as you said, helped out the, the surviving family members. So you had some money that you could use to, to finance TART.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  Yes, to continue to finance it over the years because I remember our head of, you know, like I hired someone from PricewaterhouseCoopers to do like, you know, all the finance stuff, the accounting. And I hired her while we were still in the apartment and she didn't know we were in an apartment. So she left, you know, PWC, I don't know if it was big six at the time, or you know what you called it back then.

• 1:02:21Guy Raz?

  Oh, you hired her full time to be your finance person?

• 1:02:23Speaker 01

  And when she came to the apartment and walked in, she was like, oh, my gosh, what is this? Like, what have I done? I already quit my job. But when we started in the new office, you know, she reminded me it was 1250 a month, like $1,250. And there were some months that like TART couldn't pay it and that like I would have to lend the money.

• 1:02:45Guy Raz?

  Because you didn't have enough revenue coming in from TART.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah.

• 1:02:49Guy Raz?

  And, and she was your first hire, your first formal hire?

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  She was my second formal hire. My first formal hire was an intern that, you know, had been interning with me and I brought her on full time.

• 1:03:02Guy Raz?

  And your second hire was this woman with a finance background.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  And she's, she's still with me and she's still the head of finance.

• 1:03:09Guy Raz?

  Wow. And why was that the, the second hire? Why was, why, why was the finance job, in your view, the most important?

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  Because I'm not a finance person and I wanted to make sure that all of my hires were people that were strong at things that I'm not good at.

• 1:03:27Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  I think if you surround yourself with people that are smarter than you and stronger than you and things that you can't do, you'll be successful.

• 1:03:35Guy Raz?

  So you've got this office and it's the four of you. And, and so on a day to day basis, what, tell me a little bit about what you were all doing. Like, were you, were you just sort of managing your existing buyers, like calling them? Were you trying to get into new stores? Were you calling the lab? Were you going to the lab? Were you coming up with ways to, were you calling editors? All those things?

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  I was wearing all of those hats. I have never worked so hard in my life. I felt like I was pushing a boulder up like a mountain every single day.

• 1:04:09Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  And then just like crashing in bed at night, kind of depressed, you know?

• 1:04:15Guy Raz?

  Depressed?

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  Well, just Mark and, yeah. So, but like obviously happy that the company is growing and, and doing well. So like, I didn't have time to think at all during the day. It was so busy, nonstop.

• 1:04:30Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:30Speaker 01

  Just because we were growing and not, didn't have a lot of resources. And then at night, you know, your mind would, everything would get quiet and your mind would, you know, would just start to, start to slow down and like think a little bit.

• 1:04:44Guy Raz?

  You got remarried in, I think, 2004.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  I did.

• 1:04:49Guy Raz?

  And, and to, to the husband that you're married to today?

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Yes.

• 1:04:55Guy Raz?

  What's his name?

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  His name is Scott.

• 1:04:57Guy Raz?

  Scott, okay, yeah.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  I feel like he and Mark would, would have been best friends for sure.

• 1:05:02Guy Raz?

  And, and he was also, was he working in, like, you, you met him in New York?

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  I actually met him, he went to Wharton with my best friend from undergrad. And I met him when we went to Boston. We were selling in a little apothecary that's since out of business called Essex and We needed a place to stay because we still were pretty scrappy. And my best friend Raquel said, well, I can stay with Scott, you know, from business school. We could just stay there. And I was like, OK, sounds good. And that's when I met him. And yeah, and we got married in 2004.

• 1:05:40Guy Raz?

  Wow.

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

  And he eventually came on board to like, help at Tarte.

• 1:05:44Guy Raz?

  He eventually joined the company?

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  He did. He moved to New York for me and he was in finance. And then he became an FBI agent for a little while.

• 1:05:57Guy Raz?

  Wow.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  A couple of years, yeah. And then he loved it so much. I mean, it was like the favorite thing he's ever done. But I just, we were starting to really be drowning. And I, you know, he had his CPA and his MBA. And I just said, like, I need the help. Please, like, just come help, even for a little while. And so he kind of took a leave of absence and came on board to help. But unfortunately, never made his way back to the FBI, which he's still sad about to this day. And it reminds me, he said, you know, gosh, it's so different here. You know, girls cry, you know, when they break up with their boyfriends. It's very different from the FBI. I was like, oh, yeah.

• 1:06:31Guy Raz?

  When, I mean, even by 2005, right? When you are in, and that's the year where you, your mascara makes its debut, which I think is, becomes a big hit. But even, even with the, like, the magazine placements and being in some of those stores, like, you still needed to market the product. And I can't imagine you had a massive budget for advertising or promotional things. How did you get, how did you get people to be aware of, of your products?

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, we've never spent $1 in advertising in Tarte, ever. You know, in the beginning, we never had the money to. And then, obviously, as, as time progressed, you know, that changed a little bit. I think Facebook started in 2004. So if you think about that, you know, social media, MySpace was like, 2003. You know, we hopped on the influencer trend pretty early, which was definitely great for us. And started sending it to influencers or people we thought were influencers at the time.

• 1:07:41Guy Raz?

  Just sending them free product and hoping that they might write about it on their blog or whatever.

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  Exactly, or put it on their Facebook page. Back then, we would send it to, I did have PR back then, in-house PR. So one of the early hires was like a part-time PR person. So we would send it.

• 1:07:59Guy Raz?

  And she would pitch or he would pitch to who?

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  They would send it to celebrities. Like there was a database then and there's a database now where you can like look up like, you know, where to send celebrities' products to and things like that. So we would just like send it out.

• 1:08:15Guy Raz?

  In the hopes that maybe they would open it up and like it and talk about it.

• 1:08:20Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. You know, I would keep sending it to the magazines. So I remember sending it to Gail, Oprah's best friend, and Gail.

• 1:08:29Guy Raz?

  Gail from CBS, Gail Keaton.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  Yep, mhm. And Gail gave it to Oprah and Oprah.

• 1:08:35Guy Raz?

  That's smart.

• 1:08:36Speaker 01

  Put it in her Oprah's Favorite Things. And it was our double-ended lip glosses. You snap them apart. They were named after famous lovers like, you know.

• 1:08:49Guy Raz?

  Romeo and Juliet.

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  Romeo and Juliet was one of them. Yes, absolutely. Rhett and Scarlett, like Hamlet and Ophelia, even Carrie and Big. And once we hit the Oprah O-list, it was like, oh, my gosh. Unbelievable, like flying to the moon. I mean, you had made it, you know? I mean, because Oprah, remember, I mean, still is very influential, but back then it was just everything.

• 1:09:15Guy Raz?

  She was the influencer.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  She was the OG.

• 1:09:19Guy Raz?

  I think, I would think of this was a turning, pretty important turning point for your, for the growth of the business, which was 2005. In that year, you signed a deal or contract on how it works with QVC.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:09:33Guy Raz?

  And basically, you go on it and I shouldn't be explaining this because I think everyone listening to this knows how it works. I'm just explaining this to myself. You go on and there's a, you get like, what, 15, 10, 15 minutes to talk about your product? And there's a number and people can call and order it, right?

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:09:50Guy Raz?

  And how much time would you get on QVC?

• 1:09:52Speaker 01

  Eight minutes. And you still do to this day. It hasn't changed.

• 1:09:56Guy Raz?

  Are you selling a bunch of things or just one thing in that eight-minute period?

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  Generally, it's one thing unless it's a TSV, in which case then it's a kit.

• 1:10:04Guy Raz?

  So all of your products in 2005 were obviously unique because they were paraben-free and vegan and cruelty-free and all this stuff. But you had one product that really was totally different, which was the cheek stain, right?

• 1:10:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:10:18Guy Raz?

  Was that, did you patent that? Did you?

• 1:10:20Speaker 01

  I didn't. Remember, I had no business experience. I, you know, which is okay, looking back. I didn't patent my fabric packaging. I didn't patent my cheek stain. But we launched it on QVC and it sure did sell out. I mean, those phone lines lit up.

• 1:10:36Guy Raz?

  And how quickly before competitors jumped on that idea?

• 1:10:39Speaker 01

  I mean, it took time, actually, which was pretty great back then. I feel like not everybody copied everybody back then, which was lovely. I don't know. And I felt like I was constantly moving back then. It was like, okay, what's the next cool idea? What's the next fun thing? I was always trying to like, you know, really like be different and think outside the box. But, you know, I think back to my QVC days and while it wasn't sexy, I mean, QVC saved us because it just helped us grow. When you think about catapulting to another like level of sales, you know, you can go on, especially in Q4, like holiday time, and do like $23,000 a minute.

• 1:11:20Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  I'm sure I'm allowed to share this, but, and when you're, you know, young and you're selling.

• 1:11:27Guy Raz?

  It's amazing.

• 1:11:27Speaker 01

  And you're in control of your own destiny. Yeah, and you come off and you've sold, let's say, I've sold like $20,000 a minute. And you have a buyer say, okay, well, you didn't hit goal because it was 23. And I'm thinking, who cares? I just killed it.

• 1:11:40Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Yeah. Were you, when you first started going on QVC, I mean, you have no idea how many people are watching at any given time.

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  101 million. But no, I did not know then.

• 1:11:53Guy Raz?

  How many?

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  101 million.

• 1:11:56Guy Raz?

  101 million.

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:11:58Guy Raz?

  At one moment. How is that possible?

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  101, and I love QVC, I have to say.

• 1:12:04Guy Raz?

  Wait, 101 million? That's around the world?

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  Yep, viewers.

• 1:12:08Guy Raz?

  That's like the Super Bowl.

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're clicking over from the nightly news and, you know, they channel surf. So they're never going to watch your whole... I always say, because now, well, I don't sell myself on air anymore directly. I help the girls that do sell with their sales every single week. And I just remind them, I'm like, remember, the only one watching your full eight minutes is your mom and us.

• 1:12:29Guy Raz?

  Right. And you're with somebody else, right? From QVC who's sort of asking you questions.

• 1:12:34Speaker 01

  A host.

• 1:12:35Guy Raz?

  And is it nerve wracking?

• 1:12:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was nerve wracking for sure, especially because we were growing. We were definitely in growth mode at that point. And, you know, every hit was, it was on consignment back then. And so, you know, you ship it to them and you don't get paid until you sell it. And so, for us, we had already like paid the lab and paid the packaging company. And so, we needed to get paid, so.

• 1:13:00Guy Raz?

  And probably you have to price it at a price that QVC wants you to price it at.

• 1:13:05Speaker 01

  Exactly. It had to be more competitive, for sure. But I looked at QVC, yeah, as kind of like more like an infomercial because you're selling it to all of those 101 million like eyeballs and ears. And then, you know, they may buy it there, many do. But they also may stroll into Ulta or Sephora and buy your product there because they want to touch it and smell it and feel it.

• 1:13:29Guy Raz?

  So, all right, so you're growing at a really healthy pace and not at a kind of explosive pace because you really are still self-financed. I think you, you know, the company starts in 2000. By 2007, you're at around 15 million in revenue. So still a small business. But growing at a healthy pace, I think you had about 25 or 30 employees roughly at that time. Does that sound about right?

• 1:13:55Guy Raz?

  And then we hit the beginning of what would become the Great Recession in 2008. And I read that at the time, like almost 60% of women cut back on cosmetics. And many cosmetics companies saw pretty significant declines around that time. What happened to your business?

• 1:14:19Speaker 01

  We were fine. I mean, we were just growing. We were still like in like super growth mode. So for us, we were doing great. We were just scaling on QVC. And, you know, I would be driving, commuting two hours into the city. Then I'd, you know, I'd work all day. Then I'd drive to West Westover, Pennsylvania. I'd sell on air and I'd drive home. I had, you know, at this point now, two kids, two little, little kids. So.

• 1:14:49Guy Raz?

  Living in New York City?

• 1:14:51Speaker 01

  We actually had moved out, I think, at that point. So when they think back on me, like, just, I don't know, my time selling on QVC, they're like, we never want you going back on air.

• 1:15:02Guy Raz?

  You were driving from New York to Pennsylvania once a week?

• 1:15:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, or twice a week and you'd get home really late. It was like Friday Night Beauty and then sometimes you'd have to be on like Saturday Night, too. So it was, it was, it was a lot, but, you know, I mean, I definitely loved it. And that was helping us to really grow.

• 1:15:22Guy Raz?

  So that year, 2009, were you still sourcing all of your, all of your product from that lab in New Jersey or were you also sourcing it from other labs at that point?

• 1:15:33Speaker 01

  We were sourcing about 60% of it from that lab in New Jersey.

• 1:15:37Guy Raz?

  From that original lab that agreed to take you on? See what you did for them? You gave them a lot of business.

• 1:15:43Speaker 01

  I know, I know. But you know what? It's a good, a good tale of like making sure you diversify, which we of course have since then. Because, okay, two really big things happened. I finally decided that we needed private equity.

• 1:16:02Guy Raz?

  You needed outside funding.

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  We did because we were gonna go in Ulta and launch in 364 doors.

• 1:16:09Guy Raz?

  And that means you need a lot of product and you needed money to make that product.

• 1:16:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, we needed a ton of inventory. We were gonna need a field team.

• 1:16:18Guy Raz?

  Field team is to go out and to make sure that, to make sure that it's placed right and also like sample it for people.

• 1:16:24Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. And so.

• 1:16:29Guy Raz?

  And that costs money.

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  It costs money. Yeah. And so we had met with tons of private equity firms. You know, I'd heard the horror stories through the years. You know, on QVC especially, there'd be a lot of other founders and they'd say that they got pushed out or. Their teams got fired and they were like, be careful, Maureen, be careful. Remember, I waited 11 years at this point. And so I finally found a private equity firm that I was really happy with. They're called Encore and this guy, Kevin Murphy, was such a good guy. And they signed an LOA because we needed that money for the Ulta expansion. And it was really exciting.

• 1:17:06Guy Raz?

  And they, so they made an investment in the company?

• 1:17:09Speaker 01

  Well, they signed a letter of intent, right? But literally days later, I got a phone, we got a phone call, one of the girls in the office,

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  from one of our, one of the truckers, they're not our trucker, just a trucker that we work with. And I think this is a good example, if you're good to people, they'll be good back to you. Saying that there's something weird, there's like activity happening at the lab. And I was like, wait, what do you mean activity? Just something weird's going down and like, you should come down. I was like, okay, shoot. So I hop in a car, I drive over the bridge. And I go in and I said like, hey, you know, what's going on here? Is everything going okay? And they said, we have really bad news and we're so sorry to be telling you this. I don't even know how you're here, how you knew this, but we're going out of business. And it's happening right now. I was like, what?

• 1:18:03Guy Raz?

  What? But how is that possible? They were making 60% of your product, presumably they were doing okay?

• 1:18:10Speaker 01

  They were doing okay. We had like a couple of little blips where like, we did like mini cheek stains, like travel size cheek stains and they got like a little soft, they were a little like mushy, like cranberry. And then we had an issue with like a foundation where it was like a pump, wasn't pumping out, but like we worked through it. So like, there were like a few little signs, you know, looking back, there were a couple of signs that I should have. And I did, I was on it and I was like addressing those concerns with them, I was meeting with them and stuff. But there was no like signs of this going out of business. Of course, I was like, oh my gosh, I was like, okay, well, when is this happening? And they said, immediately, this week, we're, we're closing, their, their, our, our parent company is closing our doors.

• 1:18:51Guy Raz?

  Wow.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  So I was like, what about our products? What about, what about our packaging that you, you know, they were storing a lot of our stuff there? Cause you know, they store your packaging to then fill it eventually. And they said, I don't know, the bank is taking it over and you know, it's not going to be ours anymore. I was like, what do you mean?

• 1:19:10Speaker 01

  And so Scott, my husband at the time, said, you know, when that happens, they usually put a lot, they put a lock on the door and then the bank owns it all until, you know, you can fight it out in court. And I was like, but what do you mean? That's, we own that stuff. Like, what do you mean the bank's going to come to own it? That's insane. Like, we paid for all the packaging and-

• 1:19:28Guy Raz?

  Oh, and they locked you out?

• 1:19:29Speaker 01

  No, they, they would be locking you out. So I turned around and I went out and I rented an 18 wheeler truck.

• 1:19:37Guy Raz?

  Wait, where? Did you go to like a U?

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  The U-Haul.

• 1:19:40Guy Raz?

  Okay.

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  It was insane. It was so insane. I've never in my life done this, but I was like, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? And everyone from the company came, you know, came over and I got family and everybody loaded up as much as they could. We definitely didn't get everything, but we got as much as we could. And then literally the next day, the doors were padlocked because Estee Lauder, L'Oréal, they all manufactured there. And they made products for like, you know, Bobby Brown and tons of company, tons of companies, you know, because they own them. And they couldn't get any of their stuff for a year. And talk about expiration dates, right? Like makeup expires.

• 1:20:23Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  It all went bad. So we would have gone bankrupt. Bankrupt at that point. And all of our bank loans were personally guaranteeing, guaranteed like by us. So like, you know, including like our house. So, you know, private equity was going to be taking some tips off the table, sure. But like also making sure that we didn't lose our house. And remember I said that Scott was an accountant? And so like at the time, he would sit and like figure it out all the time, like- And, you know, where we were kind of like numbers wise, because I was just like, we were out of money. We'd get really close to being bankrupt if our retailers didn't pay us, or if our suppliers didn't supply us. Like, you know, just anything went sideways

• 1:21:08Speaker 01

  on us. We were technically bankrupt like every other month for 2008 and 2009.

• 1:21:13Guy Raz?

  Even though your revenue was strong?

• 1:21:15Speaker 01

  Yes, just because we didn't have the money.

• 1:21:18Guy Raz?

  So what happened to the investment offer?

• 1:21:20Speaker 01

  So they absolutely could have walked away. I mean, they probably should have walked away. But this guy, Kevin Murphy, I mean, like, I didn't know him, but like, he stood by us. And he said, we're gonna do it. We believe in you. We invest in people. And we believe that you guys are, you're gonna pull through this. And we did. But it was really, really stressful. We managed through all of it.

• 1:21:51Guy Raz?

  This is Encore Consumer Capital?

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 1:21:54Guy Raz?

  And so they made an investment. And what did that, what did that investment allow you to do? Was it, I mean, did it really allow, it allowed you to, to, to basically serve the Ulta buyer? Like, it allowed you to, to make enough product for that Ulta to, to serve all those stores?

• 1:22:11Speaker 01

  Well, the irony is, um, Guy, that by the time it came through, we were already launched in Ulta.

• 1:22:17Guy Raz?

  Wow.

• 1:22:18Speaker 01

  And so they doubled their investment. They doubled their investment. But like, it's the kind of thing where if we weren't okay, it was all sideways and we were bankrupt.

• 1:22:28Guy Raz?

  And it was all, it was all cash flow?

• 1:22:30Speaker 01

  Yes, all cash flow.

• 1:22:31Guy Raz?

  And but, but when you say we would have been bankrupt, it's because

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  Personally.

• 1:22:35Guy Raz?

  When it's cash flow, it's like, right, it's, there's, you know, if you're, I don't know, 30 days, or what, just a few days between having the money, not having the money, waiting for the product. And, and so you're saying if that, if you could not get your product from that bankrupt

• 1:22:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:22:51Guy Raz?

  lab.

• 1:22:52Speaker 01

  That would have been it.

• 1:22:53Guy Raz?

  That would have been it.

• 1:22:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. And the banks would have called in like loans, and our house was tied to it. I would have literally lost everything in my entire life. And if you think back to, you know, just Mark and everything that I did in his memory to like invest and just, yeah, I just, I would have lost it all, would have, I would have ruined everything.

• 1:23:15Guy Raz?

  So, all right, so you get, you get through and you've got, you've got an investor and, and the company is growing and, and then 2014, you get an offer to be acquired, a Japanese company called Kosai, I think it's pronounced.

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:23:37Guy Raz?

  They acquire you, it's announced in April of 2014. How did that come about?

• 1:23:43Speaker 01

  I think once you, once you take on private equity, you know, they'll always look for an exit. I think that's always going to be kind of the end.

• 1:23:55Guy Raz?

  Yeah. So you knew in 2010, once you took that money on-

• 1:23:59Speaker 01

  I did.

• 1:24:00Guy Raz?

  That there was gonna, there was gonna inevitably be an exit.

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  I did, I did. You know, which, it was, it was definitely like a slower exit for me, which I think was good because, you know, I loved, I loved what I was doing. But Kosai is kind of like the equivalent of like a Lauter or a L'Oréal in, in Japan. And they were looking to acquire a company that they could study and learn from to like really help them with their marketing in the States. And so they kind of felt like Tarte would be a great, just like a great one for, for them for that. And I wasn't ready to like

• 1:24:43Speaker 01

  kind of like hang up my high heels and, and be done for sure. So Kosai was like a good match for me. I knew that if I went with like a Lauter, you know, a Lauter or L'Oréal, it would be different. Like I wasn't ready to go lay on the beach forever. Like I like working and I like doing this. And I just felt like they were a good partner that would allow me to do that. And I maintained like a surprising level of control, given my remaining ownership percentage that I, I did put in the shareholders agreement to make sure that it remained that way.

• 1:25:19Guy Raz?

  So you, they bought, I think about almost 94% of the company, 93.5%.

• 1:25:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:25Guy Raz?

  And, and you kept a percentage and-

• 1:25:31Guy Raz?

  And you wanted to stay on as a CEO.

• 1:25:33Speaker 01

  I did, yeah. I did, yeah, I just wasn't ready to be done.

• 1:25:39Guy Raz?

  They bought it for, I guess, around $135 million, which is amazing, an incredible exit for a brand that you started in your apartment. But you really, I mean, you're still the CEO today. That happened in 2014.

• 1:25:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:25:54Guy Raz?

  And so we're approaching nine years since

• 1:25:57Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 1:25:58Guy Raz?

  Since that, at the time of this recording, nine years since that happened. And you're still the CEO.

• 1:26:03Speaker 01

  Yes, I am. And in 2020 is when my final shares were done. And at that point, we were valued at $2.3 billion.

• 1:26:13Guy Raz?

  Wow.

• 1:26:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:16Guy Raz?

  And tell me, I mean, how many employees does Tarte have now around the world?

• 1:26:20Speaker 01

  I think like 250 or so.

• 1:26:23Guy Raz?

  And so it's still pretty manageable.

• 1:26:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:27Guy Raz?

  And, I mean, from, I mean, but still, like, running a, you know, obviously, not everybody is a direct report to you.

• 1:26:34Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:26:35Guy Raz?

  But still, you oversee that team.

• 1:26:39Guy Raz?

  How have you, what's been helpful for you to kind of develop into the kind of leader that you have become? I mean, did you ever, like, hire a coach or get a mentor? Or did it just kind of, over time, you just kind of figured it out?

• 1:26:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I have to say, a little of both. I've definitely had mentors over the years. I think they're really important. And read a lot, a lot of business books. But I think that it's really important to recognize as a founder and as a boss, like, that you're not the expert at everything. And I just have some really amazing people around me. I have a president, I have an all-female C-suite, which is something I'm very proud of. It's very unusual, believe it or not, in the cosmetic industry to have women at the top.

• 1:27:38Speaker 01

  And, yeah, I mean, I love everyone I work with. I feel very lucky. It's the thing that keeps me still going. And it's the thing that keeps me still at Tarte, is the people. It's always been about the people for me.

• 1:27:55Guy Raz?

  When you think about your story, right? And all that you've been through and all the ups and downs. And there were certainly some really major downs. How much of where you are today, do you think, has to do with your work and your work ethic? And how much do you attribute to luck?

• 1:28:13Speaker 01

  Oh, I think both. I think luck and hard work, for sure. I think that I've worked really, really hard and have had a lot of support throughout my life. But I also feel like I've been lucky, you know? I'm very blessed. So I feel like both of them, for sure.

• 1:28:42Guy Raz?

  That's Maureen Kelly, CEO and founder of Tarte Cosmetics. By the way, despite never advertising nor even using professional models, Tarte has grown a super loyal customer base who the company calls, if you guessed it, Tartelets. Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. If you want to contact the team, our email address is [email protected]. If you want to follow us on Twitter, our account is @howibuiltthis and mine is @guyraz. And on Instagram, I'm @guy dot raz. This episode was produced by Kerry Thompson with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Andrea Bruce with research help from Sam Paulson. Our production staff also includes J.C.

• 1:29:27Guy Raz?

  Howard, Casey Herman, Liz Metzger, Alex Chung, Elaine Coats, John Isabella, Chris Messini, and Carla Estevez. Our intern is Susannah Brown. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built This.