Jenner Furst: Secret Chinese Biotech Programs, and the Documentary That Could Put Dr. Fauci in Jail

Why isn’t Tony Fauci in prison? You’ll wonder after you watch “Thank You, Dr. Fauci,” now out on TCN. Jenner Furst made the documentary. Even if you think you know a lot, this is an amazing conversation. (00:00) Exposing Fauci and the COVID Cover-up (04:24) The Truth About COVID's Origins (09:53) Were the 2001 Anthrax Attacks a False Flag? (27:02) The Real Reason Fauci Pushed for mRNA Vaccines (36:00) The Pandemic Began Much Earlier Than You Were Told (45:01) Why COVID Is Different From Any Other Virus Paid partnerships with: PreBorn: Save babies and souls at https://PreBorn.com/Tucker Jase Medical: Promo code “Tucker” for extra discount at https://Jasemedical.com Eight Sleep: Get $350 off the Pod 4 Ultra at https://EightSleep.com/Tucker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:27Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you, Dr. Fauci. So I lived at the beginning of COVID in Northwest DC, where I'd been, you know, most of my life. And there were actual yard signs that said, "Thank you, Dr. Fauci."

• 0:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, the title is ironic.

• 0:42Tucker Carlson?

  But I don't think, so you told me before we went on that you're from Brookline, Massachusetts originally. I spent most of my life in Northwest DC. They're very similar, well-educated, affluent, enormous self-regard. You know, these are communities that think a lot of themselves. And it was those communities, in retrospect, that were the ones that posted the "Thank you, Dr. Fauci" signs. Am I imagining that?

• 1:06Speaker 02

  No, that happened.

• 1:07Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, but in those specific communities, in the richest, best-educated communities, you know, I don't think you saw a lot of "Thank you, Dr. Fauci" signs in Gary, Indiana, or Detroit. You saw them in Bethesda, you know, Santa Monica, Brookline, DC.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I'd lived in New York for two decades by that point. And I don't think a lot of people in New York were thanking Dr. Fauci. I don't think the sanitation workers were thanking Dr. Fauci. The nurses weren't thanking Dr. Fauci. I mean, it's a farce. It's, it's an illusion. The truth is far from that.

• 1:51Tucker Carlson?

  Welcome to the Tucker Carlson Show. We bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else. And they're not censored, of course, because we're not gatekeepers. We are honest brokers here to tell you what we think you need to know and do it honestly. Check out all of our content at tuckercarlson.com. Here's the episode. So I just want to set this conversation. I want to go through like what actually happened. First, I want to thank you for, for making this. Um, and

• 2:19Tucker Carlson?

  But I want, because everything is so politicized, particularly COVID, I just want to be clear for our viewers, who you are, you know, opposition to COVID policy, to mandatory vaccination, questions about where the virus came from, these are kind of staples on the right. They weren't at the time, by the way, I can tell you, but they are now. And, you know, silence and signs that say, "Thank you, Dr. Fauci," are sort of signifiers of liberalism.

• 2:48Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:48Tucker Carlson?

  I don't quite know how that happened, but it did. Where are you?

• 2:52Speaker 02

  I'm nowhere, honestly. I'm trying to use my brain about what happened.

• 2:57Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, good.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  And I don't think I can, I don't, I think I've lost confidence in all political tropes about this topic, and it really helped me see what was happening before with every other topic, because I consider myself a cynical person. I've been investigating these type of scandals and crimes for a long time. COVID was about 10 times or 100 times bigger than any fraud or crime I've ever investigated. And I think politics really was key to the manipulation, you know, dividing people, and I just see it in everything now.

• 3:39Tucker Carlson?

  Key to manipulation, so that implies you don't think the politics drove it. Politics was a tool that the people behind this used to subdue the population?

• 3:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that the folks who are in positions of enormous power, power that I think is greater than nation-states, really, it's transnational, global power, corporate power.

• 4:03Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 4:05Speaker 02

  I think that they benefit greatly from the population being divided and fighting amongst themselves about issues that are not even the truth. And in this case, 99% of people on the planet were abused, they were poisoned. Close to 20 million of them were killed. And in that context, they all lost. And a very small, small portion of people on this planet, you know, in the thousands, benefited greatly, even though they were responsible to some extent for this crime. And so it's insane to think that for the people who were responsible for this,

• 4:46Speaker 02

  that it was a win-win scenario for them, while the rest of the planet was clearly a lose-lose scenario. There's nothing political about that.

• 4:53Tucker Carlson?

  I feel like pounding my fist on the table in agreement. That's so nicely put. Okay, let's start at the beginning. What was this virus or where did it come from?

• 5:03Speaker 02

  I think that... I want to give you an easy answer.

• 5:07Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  But I think, I don't think we're ever going to know exactly the moment that this virus emerged from a lab. But we do know that the virus did not emerge from the wet market in Wuhan, and that it didn't emerge in December, it likely emerged in August. And that it was the product of research that was funded by the United States. And the writing was on the wall that this research could have caused a pandemic for five years at least. And there were regulations in place not to fund this research that Fauci and others violated to fund this research.

• 5:43Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  So in that context, whether it got on someone's sleeve on their way to lunch, or whether it was released intentionally, everything we know about this virus has been a lie.

• 5:56Tucker Carlson?

  So the form of research that created it is called, often called, gain-of-function, and which in crude terms effectively makes a virus, it's manipulation of a virus to make it more dangerous in order, say, researchers to create more effective vaccines against it. I think that's correct?

• 6:12Speaker 02

  That's the company line.

• 6:14Tucker Carlson?

  That's the company line. But it's so self-evidently reckless that it was banned or sort of banned under the Obama administration. Is this correct?

• 6:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's an interesting story. It's... Really what you'll see in the film is that on the surface, you have this scandal with COVID. You have this virus that doesn't appear to be natural and you have a cover up clearly. I mean, if we can't prove the moment the virus leaked or the exact origin, we can prove that there was a cover up. There's more than enough, there's more than enough evidence to do that right now.

• 6:48Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  But the story didn't start with COVID. The story started almost 20 years ago. The story started really after nine 11 and you have a country that's reeling from a terrorist attack and then the anthrax attacks happen and Anthony Fauci raises his hand to be, you know, the point person for bio defense research. And all of a sudden billions of dollars go to his department and really out of the supervision of the Pentagon and other areas of the government that had regulated it. And for the last 20 years, this has been a debate. And the sort of coverage that was happening during the pandemic really thrived on the

• 7:32Speaker 02

  idea that this came out of nowhere and it's a natural disaster and we all need to band together and we don't know much about what it is and we just need to be patient with the government, patient with the science, patient, patient with the medicine. It was the opposite. We knew all about this virus. It had been researched for close to a decade. The vaccine for this virus was in research for almost five years prior to the virus happening. And many scientists, like the folks in my film, have been ringing the alarm that this was an existential risk to humanity for close to two decades.

• 8:09Tucker Carlson?

  That's crazy.

• 8:11Speaker 02

  It's absurd.

• 8:12Tucker Carlson?

  Those are big facts to keep secret for five years.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:17Tucker Carlson?

  So.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  And there were other, and what I discovered in looking into it was that you start to see a pattern and that there were other events. In fact, you brought up Obama regulating gain of function. Well, that happens right at the same time that there's an Ebola outbreak in West Africa.

• 8:34Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  And there is a connection to gain of function research as a potential origin for that outbreak and it was successfully covered up. And you find the same people who were implicated in that outbreak, including Anthony Fauci, on secret teleconferences right after the news breaks about COVID. And they actually happen to be people who write the most passionate papers that COVID came from nature, people who were previously suspected of being the source of a lab leak.

• 9:03Tucker Carlson?

  So, so we can say those people were lying when they claimed it came from the wet market in Wuhan?

• 9:09Speaker 02

  I think that there's no way a reasonable person can look at the evidence here and think that people were telling the truth, think that Anthony Fauci was telling the truth, think that the scientists who wrote these papers wrote them with any ethical standards and that they didn't commit fraud. It appears that they all committed some form of fraud, whether it be scientific fraud. Some, some of these crimes are felonies. They committed perjury. Multiple scientists committed perjury in front of Congress. Anthony Fauci committed perjury in front of Congress. But what we have to remember about Fauci is he's been playing this game for 50 years. He knows how DC works. He knows, you know, how to operate.

• 9:53Speaker 02

  And the reason why he may get away with committing perjury is because he was the one who made the regulations, for the most part, on what gain of function would be and would not be. And he excluded that dangerous research in Wuhan. And on paper, it wasn't gain of function. And that's the type of game that's been played for, like I said, decades now.

• 10:15Tucker Carlson?

  So I have, I have too many que- I don't want to overwhelm you.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I don't want to be, I mean, you know, a lot, but you know, I also wanted to speak in a way that people can approach this story because it's, it's mind bending.

• 10:27Tucker Carlson?

  So let me just go back before I lose the thread. You mentioned the, and this has been going on since the anthrax attacks, which really were the, the pretext that Fauci used to grab all this money and power.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  Well, we can't blame Fauci for all of it. It was really Dick Cheney who had, you know, been very successful at using 9/11 to achieve other things like-

• 10:45Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I noticed, like an invasion of Iraq, yeah.

• 10:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the, the erosion of all of our civil liberties.

• 10:51Tucker Carlson?

  True.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  Um, the, you know, permitting torture, violating the Geneva Convention. These things were all in play after 9/11 because we were in a war against terror. And anthrax was painted as a continuation of the war against terror. The truth is, is that as Bush and Cheney were leaving office, it was released that anthrax was not a terrorist attack. Anthrax was an inside job from a scientist at Fort Dietrich, one of our bioweapons facilities.

• 11:21Tucker Carlson?

  So I remember that vividly. I had White Patterson to my house, had the bio team come at that, you know, 2001, I'll never forget it.

• 11:32Tucker Carlson?

  But we never really got a definitive answer on who sent. I mean, there was the person accused, first Stephen Hatfield was accused falsely by the media, including the media organization I worked for at the time. And then there was another guy that

• 11:47Tucker Carlson?

  that's exactly who's since died.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  Well, died is a very generous way of putting what may have happened to him.

• 11:57Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think he did it? Do you think he was murdered?

• 12:01Speaker 02

  I think that when he began saying that he didn't act alone and that the media's version of his story was very far from the truth. And when members of Congress started believing that he didn't act alone, he suspiciously committed suicide by taking a bunch of Tylenol. So I don't really know many accomplished scientists, bio terrorists, experts, people who understand all the different compounds that can kill them very peacefully and very fast, who would take a lot of acetaminophen to kill themselves. It's just very suspicious. And the timing was even more suspicious. And I think what I learned was that

• 12:45Speaker 02

  in many ways, Anthony Fauci's whole sort of advancement into this unchecked power, into becoming the most prominent scientist on the planet, the largest funder of biomedical research on the planet, was predicated on a hoax. And to this day, he's never admitted that anthrax was not a terrorist attack. And you can't find that anywhere in his book.

• 13:11Tucker Carlson?

  If it wasn't a terror attack, what was it?

• 13:13Speaker 02

  Anthrax was a false flag attack and Anthrax, like 9/11, allowed for the complete deregulation of bioweapons research, of biodefense research. And if you go back in time, you see this confluence of things. You see the science advancing in very exciting ways, like CRISPR, the ability to edit genes, to do things we've never been able to do before. And you see this idea that we're, we're under attack and that the enemy may use unconventional means to attack us. And bioweapons immediately came into focus because of the Anthrax attack.

• 13:56Speaker 02

  And that was used to fund a lot of "countermeasures," quote unquote "countermeasures" for bioweapons. But the interesting thing about gain-of-function, and the interesting thing about doing this research in the first place, is that in order to create a countermeasure for an agent that's never been known or created, or a virus that doesn't exist, you have to create the agent and the virus.

• 14:22Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  And so it creates a weapon, a pandemic, that has never been seen by man before, and arguably carries more risk than it carries benefit. And Fauci was almost evangelical about this research, to the point that it was suspicious. And scientists like Richard E. Bright and others, the Cambridge Working Group, I mean, this, the debate started almost directly after Anthrax and Fauci began doing this research. I mean, the debate started in like 2002, that we should not be directing all of our research dollars into this one narrow field of, quote, "pandemic preparedness."

• 15:07Speaker 02

  And yet Fauci did and amassed so much influence and power in that system that he was able to shut down every critic. And there were a lot of close calls, and there were a lot of red flags, you know, after Anthrax and before Ebola.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  Fauci supported the engineering of avian flu in 2011 to make it airborne. Bird flu is not naturally airborne. It takes a while to transfer from its host, you know, birds to humans. It happens with pigs. It happens with other intermediate species. And a scientist, supported by Anthony Fauci, used gain-of-function techniques in order to hone the virus to be airborne in humans. So this was celebrated by Fauci as a victory of science. There was a big debate on whether the results of this study should even be published. They were published.

• 16:09Speaker 02

  And Fauci and Francis Collins, who was also the NIH director at the time of the pandemic and very much part of the whole problem that we faced, they wrote an op-ed in the Washington Post and said that this was a flu risk worth taking, that doing this dangerous research could cause a pandemic, but that it was a risk worth taking because we would be prepared for that pandemic.

• 16:35Tucker Carlson?

  Prepared with vaccines.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. And therein lies the next sort of issue is that I think clinicians, doctors who treat people, folks that are pragmatic, will take any remedy or any countermeasure that's effective to help their patients and would...

• 16:57Tucker Carlson?

  In fact, I would replace the word pragmatic with humane.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  Humane, any way to stop suffering, any way, anything, you know?

• 17:04Tucker Carlson?

  Do your job was just to heal.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:07Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  And I think that Fauci represents sort of almost this paternal grandfather-like...

• 17:18Speaker 02

  Figure self proclaimed because no one asked for this who whose job felt less about protecting people or developing things that could help all sorts of people and more about carrying a line on what was important in science and and digesting science for people in a way that was if you look back very infantilizing, you know, well, you know, this is how this works and that's how this works. And if you listen to him at a podium, he has an incredible bedside manner, but he's failing to tell you every conflicting piece of evidence. He's failing to tell you every, you know, piece of gray. It's very black and white.

• 18:02Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  And he'd been doing that for years.

• 18:05Tucker Carlson?

  But there's always a bottom line.

• 18:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, right.

• 18:08Tucker Carlson?

  And the bottom line is the vaccine.

• 18:09Speaker 02

  Right. And so he was, he's not a virologist. He's an immunologist and really in many ways, his focus is vaccinology.

• 18:19Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 18:20Speaker 02

  And so there are such thing as virologists, epidemiologists, and, and all those people were supported by his funding, his research, but Fauci appeared to have one goal and one solution for problems, which was to develop vaccines for them.

• 18:37Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 18:38Speaker 02

  And I think, like many doctors and scientists would agree, vaccines are very important. In fact, there could be a pandemic coming any day now that a vaccine may be the only thing to stop it. And so much damage, this is very ironic, so much damage was done by Fauci and others to the concept of vaccines that it could be a real tragedy, it could be a real tragedy when we actually need a vaccine and people are so distrustful of public health. And I think that when you have very powerful people who have been in DC for decades, they live in a bubble where they forget what the rest of the world is

• 19:21Speaker 02

  doing, the way the rest of the world think. And for some reason, in their calculus in their head, they Fauci and others thought that this was the way to talk to people. These were the things to do. And maybe they didn't understand the catastrophic risk.

• 19:36Tucker Carlson?

  It was five years ago this month that people started to drop dead in the central Chinese city of Wuhan. Five years since the beginning of COVID. Tens of millions dead. Societies reordered completely. Economies destroyed. And yet, for some reason, we still don't know answers to the most basic questions. Where did this virus come from? How did it get here? Why did the government tell us to do things they knew wouldn't work? None of those questions have been adequately answered. And one man knows those answers. His name is Dr. Tony Fauci. Until now, nobody has really pressed. And now, a documentary filmmaker called Jenner Furst is out with a new film explaining exactly what happened. The film is called "Thank You, Dr. Fauci." Jenner Furst spent years trying to get answers.

• 20:20Tucker Carlson?

  And in that time, as he awaited Dr. Fauci's response, he went through tens of thousands of pages of documents and pieced together the story, which is shocking. We are proud to host that documentary here on TCN from December 20th to January 19th. You will see it exclusively here on TCN. Again, it's called "Thank You, Dr. Fauci." And it's worth it.

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• 22:50Tucker Carlson?

  Maybe, maybe there's another explanation. One of the things that I learned, but never hadn't known before was that there are a lot of people in a public health establishment who think vaccines are the point. The point. And this has gone on, I've never been against vaccines and you know, always been grateful for the Salk vaccine, et cetera. Took a bunch of vaccines myself, but I always assumed that they were sort of tools used by physicians to heal people, to save people from illness. I didn't realize that this mindset was very different from that. They were almost like vaccines were the point. And this goes back, you know, I mean, Diego Rivera, I think painted a mural panel about

• 23:35Tucker Carlson?

  vaccines, like the worship of vaccines. For their own sake is longstanding and I don't understand it. What is that? Do you have any insight?

• 23:43Speaker 02

  Sure. I mean, I think that if we looked at every other part of our government, our society, that we can see the influence of money and, you know, companies.

• 23:55Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  And sadly, public health is no different than any other industry, any other part of our government. They lobby, they spend a lot of money. The pharmaceutical industry spends a lot of money. There's a lot of money to be made on sick people. And sadly, folks in positions of, you know, that are making policy for America, which in many ways leads the world and a lot of this stuff is very influential. Those folks are sometimes compromised. And I think that you're, what you brought up about vaccines, you can see the same thing across the rest of the pharmaceutical industry. That many times there's a cheap and effective cure for something that costs $2

• 24:39Speaker 02

  and it's not going to get promoted and it's not going to get talked about. Because a new drug has to be developed and a new treatment has to be developed. And instead of focusing on a ton of different things that could have stopped people from dying, let's just take the research aside. Let's just take the part that America could be responsible for the pandemic in the first place and that absolutely tragic crime. The way that the public health establishment, in many ways run by Anthony Fauci, and I can explain that a little bit more, had one focus and that was to develop a vaccine.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  And that people like Bob Redfield would tell you that it wasn't even the vaccine that could be the safest. It wasn't the vaccine that could be the most reliable. It was the vaccine that was going to be an mRNA vaccine. And that really is, was the core of influence inside Warp Speed. It was Moderna and Pfizer and they got the first bite of the apple. And J&J, of course, and AstraZeneca, they also were part of it. But this mRNA technology, Fauci had been talking about it for years. And it initially was for cancer. It didn't work. And they had shifted about four or five years before the pandemic into developing a pan coronavirus, pan influenza vaccine.

• 26:04Speaker 02

  And a lot of that research was happening in places like Wuhan. And so it was, you know, almost a reverse engineered scenario where the number one cure for this virus was going to be an mRNA vaccine, despite it, you know, the science or, you know, regardless of whatever the testing or the safety, that's what had to happen.

• 26:26Tucker Carlson?

  But the nature of an mRNA vaccine, assisting from conventional vaccines, is risky.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  It's very risky and it's also a miracle of science, right? It's that we can teach our bodies how to fight these things and this kind of, you know, taking vaccine technology to the next level, you know?

• 26:45Tucker Carlson?

  But, I mean, I think a layman would say correctly that in doing that, you're potentially tampering with the formula of life.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  And we're not that intelligent as a life force. I mean, we use about 10% of our brains. So to think that we could manage the fallout or the blowback in species that are a billion years old, I think is extremely pompous and insane of humans to think that. And that's what scientists also believed who didn't get the airtime and who, many of them, their careers suffered when they challenged Fauci on this premise, that this gain of function work, you know, forget about the vaccines, which are the flip side, just the gain of function work alone is playing master of the universe.

• 27:31Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, and the idea of an mRNA vaccine itself sort of raises a lot of questions. Are you sure that's a good idea? I mean, what if it actually, what if it does change your DNA? That's not crazy to think that.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  It did.

• 27:42Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 27:43Speaker 02

  And, and that's the scary thing is that it did and

• 27:46Tucker Carlson?

  It did, we can say that.

• 27:47Speaker 02

  We can say now that there's enough data on the table to say now that the mRNA vaccines changed people's DNA. And even worse, there was

• 27:57Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so what are the, oh, let's just stop right there. That, you know, I remember hosting guests who suggested that early and were like banished from public life.

• 28:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:07Tucker Carlson?

  All but arrested for saying that. Now we know it's true, but do we know the ramifications of that?

• 28:12Speaker 02

  Well, it's interesting, you know, that we're coming to this four or five years later. I think if you look at a pattern of horrible scientific accidents and catastrophes, bad policy, bad products, it takes usually a decade, 20 years, 50 years. You'll see in the film, it's interesting, you brought up Salk. Salk had a competitor. That was the oral polio vaccine and they were both racing to complete trials at the same time. And there's data that suggests that that scientist Hillary Kroposki, who was in the Belgian Congo, was using chimpanzee kidneys to propagate his polio vaccine against the

• 28:55Speaker 02

  concerns of a lot of scientists who worried that viruses could go from chimpanzees to humans really easily. We have very similar DNA. And he did those trials in 57 to 59. And the first articulated outbreak of HIV is in 1959 in the same city that he did those trials. And therein lies the most complex, hard to fathom, you know, conundrum, right? You have people trying to save the world, racing to save the world, trying to cure polio, and they unintentionally cause another pandemic, potentially. And fast forward 75

• 29:40Speaker 02

  years, and it happened again. And that is really what this story is about. I mean, you can't, you can't play God with this stuff. I mean, these, these things are, there's, there's no way to model all the blowback.

• 29:55Tucker Carlson?

  Well, they're living organisms, for one thing. They're not static. So you can't fully understand them.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  You can't. And that when you, when you layer in arrogance, and you layer in unchecked power, and you layer in lack of transparency and oversight, the amount of damage that can be done from this work is exponential. It's exponential at that point, you know? When you have people who haven't been challenged for 20 years on their decisions, and who have amassed so much power and just put yes men around them. That's what the NIAID was. That's what the NIH was. You got to remember, out of anyone in HHS, the overarching organization, Fauci was the most senior person in that entire organization. And in many ways, I

• 30:43Speaker 02

  think he was seen as the most powerful person in that organization. And so if you look at the story of COVID, you've got the CDC Director Bob Bradfield, who's known Fauci since the AIDS pandemic. And he is completely and totally marginalized and iced out of the conversation. And the entire time when Fauci is out in public, he's saying, I'm just following the guidance of the CDC. And anyone who had inside knowledge knew that Anthony Fauci was the one who had the most influence on that guidance and that the CDC director wasn't even in the room. And if you understand American bureaucracy, you know how these alphabet agencies work.

• 31:22Speaker 02

  And he, he was, it was almost strategic that his title was in such a buried organization in the middle of the stack. He'd have a lot more scrutiny if he was the head of HHS, but for 50 years, he's had a title in a, in a buried alphabet organization institute within HHS under the NIH. After Cheney gave him these resources, it was understood that Cheney was the most, that, excuse me, after Cheney gave Fauci these resources, it was understood in those institutes that Anthony Fauci was the most powerful person in the NIH. He had a direct line to the White House. He had, he had, he had security clearance. He had a line to Congress.

• 32:06Speaker 02

  The NIH director wasn't doing anything like that. The HHS director wasn't doing anything like that. Fast forward to COVID, the HHS director came in with the administration, former pharmaceutical executive, Alex Azar, worked for Eli Lilly. Okay. And you've got Bob Redfield, who's got a lot of integrity and believed that there was a lab leak. And within weeks of having conversations directly with Fauci about that, he found himself locked out of the room. And it's very convenient that Fauci appeared to be this little old man who is all about helping people and he's a scientist and science first and he's a doctor even.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  He never really cared for patients. We saw in Congress, one of the questions that was directed at him during his hearing was, you know, did you treat any patients during COVID? Were you there? Did you intubate people? Did you watch them die? Of course he didn't. And, um.

• 33:10Speaker 02

  The truth about Anthony Fauci is a lot harder to digest. And I think a lot of people were on to it for years, but half the country believes he's a hero still. How did that happen?

• 33:24Tucker Carlson?

  I've interviewed a lot of documentary filmmakers. I've never met one able to explain his subject matters clearly as you are. So, thank you for that. I just want to go back to something you said at the beginning. You said that COVID first made an appearance outside the lab in August.

• 33:43Speaker 02

  So.

• 33:44Tucker Carlson?

  Of 2019.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  So, there's two narratives. There's the narrative that we've been given for the last four years. And there's the actual fact pattern and what is the closest to the truth that we currently have. And if you take it chronologically and you ignore the media that came out that announced the pandemic was happening and that the source was a wet market. And you just look at the facts that even existed on American intelligence servers at the time, that there is more than enough proof and evidence to show that some sort of incident happened at the Wuhan lab in either August or September.

• 34:31Speaker 02

  There was a push to redo the HVAC system in the lab. There was a transition from civilian to military control of the lab. There was the, they erased their entire database of coronavirus samples of all their different collections of different coronaviruses.

• 34:51Tucker Carlson?

  That summer.

• 34:53Speaker 02

  All happening in sequence, all in the early fall, late summer of 2019.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  And then in October of 2019, there is a massive Olympic-style event in Wuhan, where teams from around the world, from armed forces from around the world, like in America, our Navy, our Army, the Marines, sent teams to Wuhan to compete. And this was an event that had been scheduled for years. It was a diplomatic event, using sports and athleticism to bring different countries together. And at that point, Wuhan was partially shut down, that there is satellite photos of overcrowded hospitals, that there were drills happening

• 35:43Speaker 02

  at the airport that were pandemic preparedness drills, and that they were called drills, but really, they were, I think, active response to an actual pandemic outbreak, an actual leak of a virus. And this intelligence all existed before the World Military Games, and before we sent our armed forces to compete in this event, and we allowed our allies to send their teams to compete in this event. And that event in October of 2019 was the original super-spreader. And what people, I think, don't know about COVID, but that

• 36:23Speaker 02

  the researchers knew about COVID, was that it was incredibly contagious, and that it has up to a five-day dormancy period. And on top of that, a lot of people are asymptomatic.

• 36:35Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 36:36Speaker 02

  So you could have an event like the World Military Games, and knowing what we know about this virus now, by the time the virus was reported, the virus had likely spread around the world multiple times. And I know we all have friends who are like, "Well, I was sick in January, and I was sicker than I've ever been." People say they were sick like that in October, in places like Washington, in November, Washington State.

• 37:02Tucker Carlson?

  My wife got sick in November in Spain.

• 37:06Speaker 02

  And so that narrative checks out. And all that happens after that, leading up to the point where basically the emergency room chaos of Wuhan leaks, there's a doctor who posts some stuff on WeChat. And he was immediately arrested and told to erase all of his stuff off of social media because this is the way that the Chinese government was trying to contain the story. And then when it became known that he was a doctor who was trying to help people, the Chinese ended up giving him an award. And a month later, he died.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  And there are a lot of other suspicious deaths in China. Of COVID? Of COVID, yeah. And so, you know, I hope I'm explaining this in a way that's digestible. I find that when you, when you look this in the face and you really see it, it's, you have to remember that the rest of the world hasn't had that privilege or opportunity to understand how damning the evidence is and how ugly the story is and how many pieces of evidence there have, that have existed for years now. I mean, there is a, what drove me to make this film, I think, and fall into it was,

• 38:33Speaker 02

  okay, I could buy that Anthony Fauci is, is not honest about everything. I could buy that the United States government does nefarious things and potentially was funding research they shouldn't have been funding. I could buy that the pharmaceutical industry would want to cover up a story like that because after all, they were going to make billions of dollars from the countermeasure of the vaccine. What struck me the most was me as a conscious sort of anti-corruption looks, reads between the lines, doesn't trust media sources, had existed in this bubble where even I was not aware that there was a grant proposal to do this work two years before the pandemic

• 39:15Speaker 02

  happened and that it had been reported on for two years. And I didn't even know it existed. Yes. And that was the most horrifying thing for me was that I was just another sucker. You know, I'm a educated investigative reporter of sorts who, you know, doesn't, like I said, trust anything I want to dig deeper, I want to go and see. And then I had lived in an algorithm that completely ignored this fact. And it was horrifying to me. And I learned that papers that I have trusted my whole life, like the New York Times and the Washington Post, were in some ways, the largest distributor of state-sponsored propaganda

• 39:59Speaker 02

  in the country. And that they were republishing studies that had no scientific merit and putting them on the front page, some of them before they even hit peer review. Who was feeding them those stories? And then when a writer wants to write about something that isn't a bat, a pangolin, or a raccoon dog, and that is more related to an apparent cover-up and a lab leak, espionage, a bunch of things that are extremely newsworthy, those writers were told they couldn't by their editors. But here I am, just a civilian like everybody else, believing that the news I'm getting is the news. And, you know, I want to give

• 40:39Speaker 02

  credit to people on the right who have broken with the mainstream media and live in a world where they feel like they need to question everything now. And I felt I already lived in that world. And here I was, completely seduced by mistruths, misinformation, propaganda, for years.

• 41:00Tucker Carlson?

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• 41:42Tucker Carlson?

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• 42:03Speaker 05

  Honey, that flu keeping you up?

• 42:04Speaker 06

  Yeah, I don't got this.

• 42:06Speaker 05

  You need NyQuil Intense Flu.

• 42:08Speaker 07

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• 42:17Tucker Carlson?

  So, most people don't wake up in the morning and decide to feel horrible, exhausted, foggy, disconnected from themselves, but it does happen and it happens slowly. You're working hard, you're showing up, and then your energy disappears by midday. Your focus is dull, your weight won't move. A lot of people are told, "That's just getting old." That's what it is, but that's not actually true. For many men and women, these are not personal affairs. They are signals tied to your metabolism, your hormones, and nutrient imbalances that go undetected for years. You don't even know you're deficient. And that's why we're happy to partner with Joy and Blokes, a company that was built for people who are all done guessing and ready to figure out what exactly is going on. And that starts with comprehensive lab work and a one-on-one

• 43:00Tucker Carlson?

  consultation with a licensed clinician. An actual human being explains what's happening inside you and builds a personalized plan, which includes hormone optimization, peptide therapy, targeted supplements. So, don't settle. Go to joyandblokes.com/tucker. Use the code TUCKER for 50% off your lab work and 20% off all supplements. That's joyandblokes.com/tucker. Use the code TUCKER. 50% off labs, 20% off supplements. Joy and Blokes. Get your edge back.

• 43:44Tucker Carlson?

  I know the feeling very well. I know the feeling. Um, yeah, I mean, I didn't understand. I still don't understand a lot of it. I have many more questions for you, but I, I, I went on the basis of, of instinct and it was just clear that there was lying. There had never been an effective COVID, uh, coronavirus vaccine and there had been a disaster with the previous coronavirus vaccine. I remember that very well. And, um, so I just thought, you know, I don't know what this is, but it doesn't smell good. I'm not putting it in my body, but I had no idea, uh, that it could be this dark. I agree with you completely. So, um, let's just get back to, uh, I just want to tie up one.

• 44:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm sorry.

• 44:29Tucker Carlson?

  No, no, no, no, I, I'm.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  I'm sorry for your editor.

• 44:32Tucker Carlson?

  No, no, we're not editing this.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 44:34Tucker Carlson?

  No, you're telling a wonderfully coherent story. I really, I've never seen, as I said, a filmmaker, um, explain a thesis this succinctly and in such a linear way. It's, it's amazing. There's just a lot, but I just want to go back very quickly to the question of the mRNA virus vaccine.

• 44:52Speaker 02

  Freudian slip.

• 44:54Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly. Changing people's DNA. I mean, that is, that feels like an underappreciated headline that, you know, could have civil, will have civilizational effects. Do we have any sense of what that means?

• 45:09Speaker 02

  Well, you know, we don't.

• 45:13Tucker Carlson?

  Can I say, one of the smartest people I know, I was legit much smarter than I am, said to me, people who take the vax are different. I'm, I'm just telling you that. And I said, you know, you're a lunatic. And he said, they're different. I can tell. I can feel it. They're different and they're more passive for one thing. And, um, they're more likely to sort of go along with things that before vaccinated, they would have known were not true. It, it saps your will. It changes you. I noticed this. And I didn't buy it really because how would a vaccine change you as a person? But I never forgot it. And so I do wonder, like, are there indications?

• 45:53Speaker 02

  There's a lot of indications, but I'm going to reveal something that other scientists also believe that is is a lot scarier. And I think a lot's more scary for folks that protested the vaccine, didn't put it in their body and think that they're better off. The virus does things like this to you.

• 46:16Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 46:16Speaker 02

  And everyone on the planet has gotten the virus multiple times, and that the virus likely has fragments from HIV in it. It has fragments from other viruses. It creates neurological damage. It creates damage in your heart, your liver. It affects every part of your body, creates autoimmune disorders that are hard to even detect. They're so pervasive in people's life. Little things that if you look back, you'd be like, oh, yeah, I sneeze about this thing all of a sudden. I have allergies for this that I never had, or women who whose menstrual cycles changed, not simply from the vaccine, but from the virus. People who still have

• 46:56Speaker 02

  long COVID right now. And long COVID is not some phenomenon that's, you know, obscure. It's directly tied to the synthetic nature of the virus.

• 47:08Tucker Carlson?

  Did you get COVID?

• 47:09Speaker 02

  I got COVID.

• 47:10Tucker Carlson?

  It felt different.

• 47:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was different. And you know what's interesting is I was I got the first two shots. And after that, I was like, this is, you know, I'm not boosting. I'm not doing it. This has gone too far now. And I believed that I was an asymptomatic person, and that I wasn't really going to get COVID in the first place. I was going to be asymptomatic. And, you know, a lot of people are asymptomatic. And what's so troubling about the virus is it has such different effects for different people. And so for the most part, it strikes the elderly, the immunocompromised. But you could have a genetic composition that makes you die from lung complications and

• 47:57Speaker 02

  appear to be a healthy person. You could have a genetic complication that makes you die of a sudden heart attack. And even worse, you could have a genetic composition that now, two years later, you're learning that you have a rapid stage three or four cancer. And I say that because everyone can assume or or accept that the vaccine could cause that problem. But we need to open up the idea that the virus itself can cause those problems. That is how ugly this virus is. And the type of brain fog, complicity, you know, we all got a hit over the head with this virus. I don't know if you remember when you got it. I experienced fatigue and brain fog like I've never experienced in

• 48:40Speaker 02

  my life. And there's certain people who now have

• 48:43Tucker Carlson?

  It sapped your life force.

• 48:44Speaker 02

  It your will to live. Your will to live. And

• 48:48Tucker Carlson?

  I've been depressed one day in my entire life. 55 years of one day of depression. And it was when I had COVID.

• 48:54Speaker 02

  That's impressive. I wish I had whatever you're eating for breakfast.

• 48:59Tucker Carlson?

  Nicotine.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, good. But

• 49:02Tucker Carlson?

  But I never understood what people meant when they said, I feel depressed. I've been sad, of course, many times, which I think is healthy. But I've never had a feeling of hopelessness or true bleak nihilistic despair ever, not one time in my life until Thanksgiving 2020, when I had COVID. And I couldn't believe it. I was worried.

• 49:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. When I got it for the first time after being vaccinated, I said, this feels completely different than any other virus I've ever had. I don't get sick much. I get sick like once every two years. And I was very sick. And then in the middle of the night, I started having trouble breathing. And I was like, wow, this is scary. And this was all before I made the film. This was before I got the call to if I was interested in investigating Fauci. So, within a couple months, you know, before making this film, I had experienced COVID and really was the sickest I'd ever been from the virus. And

• 50:07Speaker 02

  I went and I was scared. So I got Paxlovid.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  And I ended up getting better and then getting sick again about two weeks later. And it didn't really feel like a great remedy. It felt more almost psychological.

• 50:22Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  That it's going to help me. It's and, and you know, my symptoms were reduced, but then I got sick again. And then something crazy happened. I'm a healthy 40 year old man and I don't have any other medical complications. And I have, as I said, a very strong immune system. I only get sick rarely, once every couple of years. I got shingles right after I had COVID and took Paxlovid. And I was like, how is this possible? I mean, yeah, stress, all these other things, but I don't fit the sort of bill for that.

• 50:59Tucker Carlson?

  You're not Edie.

• 51:00Speaker 02

  No. No. And I found out that two of my cousins who are the same age as me had just gotten COVID and had gotten shingles. And I went online and I read that a lot of young people who get COVID are getting shingles after they get COVID. And I'm sure people listening to this are going to say, yeah, me too. That's crazy. It's not a coincidence. This virus directly targets your immune system and does things that are hard to even compute. I mean, some of them are so varied in people, they're as varied as our DNA. And I'd had that experience right before making the movie. So I was very, I think, open minded to the idea that everything, everything I was told

• 51:44Speaker 02

  was not necessarily the truth.

• 51:48Tucker Carlson?

  Is because it was engineered and because genetics played a determinative role in illness and our response to viruses and our response to everything. Is it conceivable that whether by engineering or not, that certain genetic makeups are more susceptible to illness?

• 52:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I think if the Chinese were actively constructing a bioweapon, that you would look at America's general health condition and that this virus disproportionately affects people with diabetes, people with heart issues. We live on a very poor diet here in the United States. We're one of the richest, if not the richest country in the world, and the quality of food we're eating is, is.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  It's the opposite of what we should be eating.

• 52:42Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 52:43Speaker 02

  We're eating poison every day and that's effectively permitted and lobbied for and we don't regulate it. And so if you look at that from an outside looking in and know that we're in such poor health, it would make sense to make a virus that targets a certain genetic composition.

• 53:00Tucker Carlson?

  High BMI.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  Sure. And in fact, this was documented. This is, there was intelligence briefs that came out, you know, after the State Department report, a year after the pandemic. And those intelligence reports show years of knowledge about the Chinese bioweapons program. And the question is, how did we develop years of knowledge about the Chinese bioweapons program? Because we were effectively funding and supplying the Chinese bioweapons program with our most talented scientists who were giving them technologies they didn't already have. And the exchange was so that we could spy on them. And if that isn't a completely insane proposition, I don't know what is.

• 53:44Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 53:45Speaker 02

  And we knew at that point, and maybe what caused such panic and alarm was that the Chinese were experimenting with things that were very, very questionable and dangerous. They had genetically engineered a human embryo so that the child was born immune to smallpox and polio, and I believe HIV. And that there were programs in place to understand the Chinese genome as it pertained to viruses to protect against viruses that were targeting the Chinese genome. And of course, if you look at the flip side of that, would be to make viruses that do not target the Chinese genome.

• 54:30Speaker 02

  And I want to remind people.

• 54:32Tucker Carlson?

  Makes it easier when you have an ethno-state.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  Sure. It does. And, you know, I think we have to remember that we are the frontrunner of those technologies. So whatever the Chinese are doing. They're likely sifting that technology from us. And the United States is not off the hook in crazy research. And Anthony Fauci was pedal to the metal on this stuff for two decades.

• 54:57Tucker Carlson?

  So do we know whether the virus escaped intentionally or by accident?

• 55:04Speaker 02

  There are some breaks right now that are happening. And I think right when the new administration gets in and a lot of folks who are very concerned with this issue and passionate about exposing the truth, we're going to know a lot more really quickly. But there's some really concerning stuff that was just released that DOD officials had a briefing about the potential accident in the virus in October of 2019. So previously, the intelligence was labeled sort of unanalyzed, that it was just on a server and we didn't see it, which of course is extremely suspicious. I mean, we can see how many nose hairs someone has from a satellite at this point.

• 55:49Speaker 02

  I mean, the idea that we wouldn't be able to sift one of the largest, most troubling signals that you could ever see on an intelligence server and have an alert set up for it just is it's illogical. It doesn't make any sense. But we now know that they actually did meet and they did discuss this incident. And we also know that the DOD was very privy to a proposal to create this virus. It was called the defuse proposal. It was submitted in 2018. It's taken four years for us to learn that 15 other US agencies saw that proposal before the pandemic. Think about that.

• 56:27Tucker Carlson?

  So, I mean, that doesn't prove, but it certainly suggests, you know, an intentional act.

• 56:34Speaker 02

  It does. And then the part that is also very troubling that people who whose anonymity I should keep, who have security clearance and who did not disclose this to me in a very explicit way, but who signaled that they believed this to be the case, is that

• 56:57Speaker 02

  American scientists using American research dollars at American institutions and with the federal government created a proposal partnering with a Chinese scientist at the Wuhan lab, Shi Jingli, who was also a Chinese military scientist.

• 57:16Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, it was a military lab, effectively.

• 57:18Speaker 02

  It was a military lab and that many of the scientists even who were coming to the United States had dual affiliation with the military program. And it is believed now that the Chinese funded the defuse proposal. What would stop them from funding the proposal? We gave them all the technology. We outlined what we were looking to do. Now, if you read that proposal cover to cover, you'd have to be really, I think scientifically, you know, knowledgeable and astute to understand what they were trying to do. But the reality is what they were trying to do didn't make any sense in this proposal. It was already subterfuge. They were trying to go and take a virus that had never been seen before from the jungle,

• 57:58Speaker 02

  from areas like Yunnan province where these viruses can jump out of nature and cross over into humans, take them into the lab and put a furin cleavage site into the spike protein and play with this part of the virus called DC sign or this pathway, which targets our immune cells and tells us not to fight the virus until it reaches our lymph nodes and that we're being infected directly in our immune system. And the proposal says how to do all of this. And the purpose of the proposal apparently is to see what the virus will do and that the thing that the takeaway at the end of the proposal is that, that they want to make a bat vaccine and go and they want to spray it in a cave so that a virus like this doesn't

• 58:43Speaker 02

  come out of nature. And so, anyone who's really looking critically, knowing what we know now, that part seems like bullshit and that the real purpose was to create a bioweapon that was very effective or to at least continue research on the spike protein and aspects of the spike protein that hadn't been resolved yet. And when I say that is that the NIAID and Fauci. Was funding research about furin cleavage sites and the spike protein because all of it was relevant to the mRNA vaccine because it was the part that they hadn't really figured out yet. The furin cleavage side causes this toxic reaction and there was research into

• 59:28Speaker 02

  it and Ralph Baric had done research into it. This is stuff that predates the pandemic by years. And so this proposal in many ways was probably a continuation of that type of work. But the proposal was also a cookbook on how to make a really dangerous coronavirus, one that would be devilish and one that would be worse than any that had ever been seen. And the logic, I guess, is, you know, we got to know what's coming and prepare for it. The irony is, we weren't that prepared. And a lot of people died. And the proposal itself says that effective countermeasures for a virus like this are currently chloroquine and remdesivir.

• 1:00:11Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  Yes, the proposal in 2018 acknowledges chloroquine as an effective method for treating this type of coronavirus. And so you have all these different reasons why this proposal does not see the light of day for years. And thank God for a Marine in DARPA who finds it on an area of that server that is not classified, which makes one believe that someone in the classified area of that program wanted this to be exposed. And if Lieutenant Colonel Joseph Murphy did not expose this to the public, we may have never found out

• 1:00:55Speaker 02

  that this proposal existed. Mind you, 15 US agencies saw the proposal and it was pitched to them two years before the pandemic happened.

• 1:01:04Tucker Carlson?

  How do travelers stay prepared for the unexpected? Well, when you're flying across the country or driving for hours crammed into crowded spaces, and yet most people don't think what they'd do if they got sick or someone they love got sick. Have you thought about that? Well, now it's the holidays. It's the busiest travel time of the year, and it's also flu season. Everyone's stressed. People are coughing. And if you're unlucky, you could find yourself ill in a place where you need medication. So what do you do about that? Well, thankfully, there's a solution. It's called Jace Go. Jace, J-A-S-E Go. It's a compact kit of essential prescription medications for all of those unexpected health emergencies, for infections, food poisoning, and more. It's designed to go wherever you go. Think about that. Snow hits, pharmacies close, flights

• 1:01:47Tucker Carlson?

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• 1:02:17Speaker 05

  Honey, that flu keeping you up?

• 1:02:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, I don't got this.

• 1:02:20Speaker 05

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• 1:02:36Speaker 03

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• 1:03:05Tucker Carlson?

  The big question here is, why would the United States be working directly with what most people assume is its main enemy, China, to create a virus that disproportionately hurts the United States and then, once caught doing it, covered it up on behalf of China?

• 1:03:27Tucker Carlson?

  And that cover up continues. There are no, I mean, the economic cost alone of the United States is hard to calculate, but it's, you know, biggest ever. And there's no call for reparations from China for this.

• 1:03:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's, it's, it's a head scratcher, right? But if you follow the money, this was the largest transfer of wealth in modern history. There was a moment in the pandemic when literally billions of dollars a second were moving from the poor to the rich. And anyone under a certain income bracket, no matter how you cut it, they lost.

• 1:04:00Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure. PPP loans.

• 1:04:02Tucker Carlson?

  Do you own a house?

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  I did at the time. Yeah.

• 1:04:06Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. Most people in their 30s now, like you said, you're 40, but they're not buying houses.

• 1:04:13Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:04:14Tucker Carlson?

  Like this is a renting society post COVID.

• 1:04:16Speaker 02

  Sure. And

• 1:04:19Tucker Carlson?

  It completely transformed the social structure of the United States forever.

• 1:04:23Speaker 02

  In ways that we don't connect as fluidly as we should.

• 1:04:28Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:04:29Speaker 02

  So there is a nexus of tech companies, virus research, pharmaceutical companies.

• 1:04:37Tucker Carlson?

  Biotech, we call it.

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  Biotech, but even straight tech, right? Metabiota is also owned by Google. Okay? And if you are going to have, say, an effective bioweapons attack, you're going to need to control information. And what I think a lot of people don't understand is the biggest client of all of these tech companies is the United States.

• 1:04:58Tucker Carlson?

  Always. Yeah.

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  So before you see the announcement about the microchip or the new development, the US government has likely already purchased five, $10 billion worth of the technology and had it a year before. And you don't know about that. And there's privileges that come with that, obviously, because you can leverage, the government can leverage tech companies, as we saw with COVID, and can access data, you know, and this is carryover from, from 9/11, you know, the Patriot Act alive and well, you know, tech companies at that point, I think were primitive compared to what they are now. I mean, I don't even think in 2001, we understood how online we would be living our life, but COVID magnified that by 10. I didn't even know what Zoom was before COVID.

• 1:05:45Speaker 02

  I mean, Skype was a thing and it was like, why this is okay FaceTiming like sure. But like our entire society moved to a remote existence. So that benefited the companies that created those technologies. I mean, Zoom stock went, you know, through the roof. It benefited all this entire ecosystem of data and it also really benefited the intelligence community and others who could sift data that they weren't privy to. You and I are no longer having a conversation at a coffee shop. We're having one on Zoom. And, um, you know, that's one kind of gain, small compared to the other gains.

• 1:06:27Speaker 02

  Let's just look at the pharmaceutical companies, over $120 billion between all of them in the first couple of years of the, of the vaccines going public. And the stock market, you know, it was a perfect example of the elite, which I think Fauci really represents, and that is very common in DC. It doesn't matter what party, the people like yourself who know DC, know that when you make it to DC, it's a party. And the people back home aren't invited. It's not about you being a Democrat. It's not about you being a Republican. DC is an insular system and that it is an elite system.

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  And that the most, and you know, uh, deep pocketed lobbyists and people trying to influence policy, forces from outside the country having, you know, offices there. And of course, America's largest corporations, you know, engaging in, in, in whatever they can to, to have the law favor their interests. That isn't, that doesn't favor any constituents. That doesn't have anything to do with what people voted on. And everybody's very collegial with each other. You know, there's a lot of mudslinging on social media and there's a lot of mudslinging on TV. But in the halls of Congress, everybody's very collegial with each other. Everyone knows the game that's being played.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  And I think that it's an illusion. Uh, in the truth of what's actually happening, um, most of the time is policies and actions that hurt the poor, that weaken the middle class and that ingratiate and further the wealth of the wealthy. And, um, I, I, maybe that's my progressive left-leaning politics coming through. I don't consider myself a political being anymore. I think politics itself is sinister. I don't think you can be a politician in America and not be compromised in some way because at some point you've had to ignore a truth in order to promote yourself to get to the position you're in. But that's the system we created.

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  And COVID was a microcosm of every weakness that already existed in that system. And so you have the worst event that ever happened, yet our stock market was on a sugar high for years. People got rich during COVID just from their stock positions. Well, who has stock positions? Not the guy working at the sanitation, you know, uh, not, not the, not the teacher. You know, it was great for wealthy people who, oh my God, my kids can come with me on vacation. I can just take my work call from a golf course and the nannies are covering it. If you lived in East Baltimore and you were African-American and you were, you were, you were in a school district that was struggling, you didn't even log on for two years.

• 1:09:18Speaker 02

  We lost a whole generation of kids to remote learning. Those schools should have never been closed. And yet you, you brought up all these places in the country that had, thank you, Dr. Fauci signs. Well, what do they all have in common? These are upper middle-class parts of the country.

• 1:09:36Tucker Carlson?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:09:36Speaker 02

  Poor people did not get anything from COVID. And if they continue to wave the flag of, of who they believe their political hero is, guess what? There's no politician who's really doing much for the poor. There's some talking about doing stuff for the poor, but what actually trickles down to the poor is very, very small and they are getting more and more disenfranchised. And when you talked about reorganizing society, that was one of the biggest takeaways. They are more and more disempowered now, the poor of America than they've ever been.

• 1:10:08Tucker Carlson?

  Couldn't agree more. And there are a lot more of them than there ever have been, ever, at any point in our history. I'm very aware of that. So, um, so the question of why does Washington continue to cover it up might be answered just by noting because they're the beneficiaries of it and they've got something to hide. So like, why would they?

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  It's working, right?

• 1:10:31Tucker Carlson?

  It's working.

• 1:10:32Speaker 02

  Okay, media went up, tech went up.

• 1:10:34Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 1:10:34Speaker 02

  Stock market itself went up. You got an election with an incredible turnout.

• 1:10:39Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 1:10:39Speaker 02

  Right? I mean, what's better to get people to come to the polls than racism? You know, a vaccine they shouldn't be taking, uh, some kind of regime change that's happening illegitimately. I mean, we have to remember that if you really take a bird's eye view of the system, it benefits both parties. It's not simply like the Republicans go and do a strategy that divides people and it just benefits Republicans.

• 1:11:06Tucker Carlson?

  I agree.

• 1:11:07Speaker 02

  It's, this is a self-affirming loop.

• 1:11:10Tucker Carlson?

  I agree. I mean, that's what, that's what in the end, the trans stuff does is it does serve both parties actually.

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 1:11:18Tucker Carlson?

  And I think the race hatred that has been imposed on us is not organic, um, does the same. Uh, it's, it's all intentional.

• 1:11:26Speaker 02

  It hurts both sides too. It hurts both sides.

• 1:11:30Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it destroys your society ultimately, but it, it definitely distracts people from, you know, other things, you know, go hate each other, leave us alone as we loot it.

• 1:11:40Speaker 02

  This isn't new. This is Bacon's Rebellion. This happened at the end of the, at 1700s. It's when, when black and white slaves united and took over Charlestown, Virginia. Okay. Because the British, uh, were giving them too much taxes and they wanted more protection against Native Americans. It's a very ugly story. They successfully took over a colony for two years and the plantation class looked at that and said, we have a serious problem right here. Because if they realize who the real enemy is and who's getting rich off their backs. We're fucked. And the whole concept of chattel slavery and three fifths of a man

• 1:12:21Speaker 02

  and white people being better than black people was perfected at that moment because it's incredibly effective at dividing the poor right down the middle. And look at when Martin Luther King got assassinated. He was at the point where he was focusing on wealth disparity and programs for the poor. That's when he got killed, not when he said that we're all created equal.

• 1:12:43Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, yeah. And he's not, you know, the only one who got assassinated for moving in that direction. Yeah. So I just want to touch on the public health response after the virus became universal. And you talked about why you think there was relentless focus on vaccines, the exclusion of other potential remedies, medicines. But masking, you know, physical separation of people, it was super obvious right away, those were not affected, but they they were policy for years after that. What was that?

• 1:13:26Speaker 02

  I think that Fauci believed that whatever it is you tell the public, it should be simple, and there should be no room for confusion about the mandate you're giving. What that leads to is the type of behavior where you're for something one day, you're against it the next day. You don't have conclusive science on boosters for children. In fact, there's no science for boosters to children. They should have never been recommended. And yet, they decided to augment that data and just make it simple for people? I mean, this is giving them the benefit of the doubt and not assuming that there is a more nefarious reason why these policies existed that were all about ultra vaccinating people constantly.

• 1:14:09Speaker 02

  You got to remember, these are not vaccines. They don't stop the spread of a virus. These are flu shots. And flu shots actually are way more profitable than vaccines. In fact, how many times you get a polio vaccine in your life? You get it once. Okay. Go up from there, you know, you get a tetanus shot every couple of years when you step on a rusty nail. Flu shots are marketed for you to get every year and they're marketed in a way that you should get them when you're healthy. It's not just elderly people. Well, COVID is even better, right? Now there's a scary virus that came out of nature that keeps morphing, you know, and, and, you know, the first message is this is going to stop the spread. This is

• 1:14:52Speaker 02

  going to release the pressure and let us go back to our lives. That was a lie. And it was also a lie that we should have been locked down in the first place and that our schools should have been closed in the first place. That was a lie. So when society is at the brink and everybody is going insane in their homes and can't get back to work, can't go to a bar, can't go to a baseball game, everything about American society has shut down. The amount of leverage you have to sell a solution that is completely black and white, that, you know, this is going to do it. This is going to bring us back and anyone who doesn't

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  do it is the enemy. You know, that is of course really effective. It was, there couldn't be anything further from the truth. It didn't stop the spread. It doesn't stop you from getting COVID. It doesn't stop a lot of things. In fact, it itself makes you sick.

• 1:15:53Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 1:15:53Speaker 02

  In and of itself makes you sick.

• 1:15:57Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think we're getting the outline of the public health disasters caused by the COVID virus and by the lockdowns? I mean, are we getting a sense of? What the consequences are?

• 1:16:13Speaker 02

  I mean, let's take masking in children. There's children don't really get sick from COVID. Sure, they spread COVID, but let's be honest about what COVID is. It's the second most infectious virus in history. Everybody gets COVID. Some people get sick. Some people don't get sick. Some people get really sick. Some people get moderately sick. If you have a comorbidity or you're elderly, you could die. Uh, our public health policy was about protecting a small portion of the population that was at risk of death, a small population. So if we're going to be honest about that, it that that made no sense. Right?

• 1:16:57Speaker 02

  So what makes more sense is to say grandma can't get this virus. So we got to protect grandma and and my, my, you know, my son who's got cancer or my, you know, aunt who's got diabetes. We got to make sure that they have safe places to go and that they're contained. And this vaccine should be available for them. Anything trial should be available because they're at risk of dying from this really scary virus. That's assuming that you don't know anything about the virus already. That's a big assumption.

• 1:17:26Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:27Speaker 02

  Let's go back to the the news coverage. Right? How many times did we hear? We don't know what this is. We don't know what it does. You know, uh, policies to wash surfaces and wash your fruit in the sink. You know, when that had nothing to do with the way that this virus spreads. Because to admit that you know what this virus does is to admit that you'd been funding it for years and that you know what the fur and cleavage site is and that you know even the way that HIV viruses interact with coronaviruses. Because Fauci funded a study by the same scientists who were implicated in in the COVID disaster to experiment with coronaviruses as an HIV vaccine.

• 1:18:13Speaker 02

  In 2014, so this is a Pandora's box. You open it up, just a crack, and it blows open and all hell breaks loose. So for almost a year, lies were told about this virus, not just where it came from, but how to treat it, how it was spread. If we were honest about lab engineering, we would have been able to stop the spread in the way that it mattered the most. And the truth is that fusion inhibitors and other simple, cheap drugs are probably more effective for the majority of people than a vaccine is. Addressing the virus and stopping it from doing a lot of harm in your body, stopping

• 1:18:58Speaker 02

  it from spreading in your body after you've already gotten it, you know, things like ivermectin, we understand now, chloroquine, these type of therapies were, are arguably just as successful as a vaccine. The problem is, you can't get an emergency use authorization for a vaccine if there's another useful countermeasure. So if you look back at the media and you start, and you look at it with cynical eyes and you've lost trust for Anthony Fauci at this point, like I did, and I said, okay, well, I see one lie, you know, it's like in a true crime, when the detective, the person tells one lie, and they're like, okay, well, this is probably the killer, because now they're lying about this one thing. That's the way that it felt for me.

• 1:19:44Speaker 02

  It's like, how could you tell lies this big and not be lying about everything? I have to assume that you're lying about everything now.

• 1:19:50Tucker Carlson?

  That's a fair assumption.

• 1:19:51Speaker 02

  And so, you know, you're going to push this experimental technology that conservatively should take about five to 10 years to test in humans before you release it to the public. That's going to make certain individuals and companies billions of dollars. Money, by the way, that flowed back to the NIH and to Fauci's organization. We know now $650 million funded back to that organization through royalties from the pharmaceutical companies. And there is a system in place that is favoring a fixed outcome. And that outcome doesn't have anything to do with public health,

• 1:20:34Speaker 02

  and it doesn't really have anything to do with the most effective thing. It's got to be new, and it's got to benefit our friends. And Moderna was a great friend to the US government. In fact, Moderna was mostly funded by the US government for a period of time. It was never really a successful company. They'd been working on that cancer program with mRNA. It didn't stick. They were also funded by the DOD directly. So it's a pharmaceutical company being funded by the DOD, the Department of Defense. And ultimately, this project was a big deal for Fauci and for others, and this idea of this coronavirus vaccine.

• 1:21:18Speaker 02

  And the way in which it got preferential treatment in the process is obvious. In fact, there was a deal to develop this vaccine before the pandemic was even announced. And people will tell you, oh, no, that's just a coincidence. The information sharing agreement with Ralph Baric, the guy who was involved in the research at Wuhan, and Moderna, and NIH, and Fauci's, under Fauci's influence, that was just a coincidence because it says on the paper MERS vaccine, not SARS vaccine. This is the type of trickery and tomfoolery and bullshit that runs bureaucracies.

• 1:22:02Speaker 02

  You've been in the system long enough. You know what to put in an email. You know what a grant proposal should have and should not have in it. And you know if you're going to do an information sharing agreement before the world is hit with the worst pandemic of a generation for a vaccine to have a frontrunner position, that you don't want to have too many fingerprints on that. So let's call it a MERS vaccine and not a SARS vaccine. All of that happened. All of that happened, and the reason why it happened is because there was knowledge that this virus was gonna ravage the world months before it was reported, and that it's insane to think that Anthony Fauci, a preeminent infectious disease, you know, not a virologist,

• 1:22:46Speaker 02

  but someone in public health who's been studying these viruses, did not get the fucking memo that a virus was spreading all over China before December. That's hard to believe.

• 1:22:56Tucker Carlson?

  So we were at a meeting here at TCN the other day, and I looked around the room, and every other person had a kind of ruddy vitality, sort of pink cheeks, alertness, bright eyes, full mental acuity, and a cheerfulness you could almost smell. And I asked, "Why does everyone look so good?" And part of the answer, of course, is they like what we do for a living. It's really interesting. We think it's important. But another reason everyone looks so good is because they'd all had a great night's sleep. I'm not making this up. Almost everybody here uses a new sleep technology from a company called Eight

• 1:23:37Tucker Carlson?

  Sleep. They sent it to us, and everyone here loves it. It's called the Pod. It's a high-tech mattress cover, effectively, that you add to your existing bed. You don't need a new bed or anything like that. You just throw this over what you have. What it does is adjusts the temperature of your bed, warmer or cooler, depending on what you want, and it maintains an ideal sleeping environment all night long. So I didn't know this, but as you progress through different phases of sleep, your body's needs change. And Eight Sleep automatically keeps things exactly where they should be, in the sweet spot, through the entire night. It's been proven to increase the quality of your sleep, the amount you

• 1:24:18Tucker Carlson?

  sleep every night. It improves your recovery time from physical exertion, and it may even improve your cognitive performance and enhance your overall health. It seems to be doing that in our office. So it learns and adapts to your sleep patterns over time and automatically adjusts the temperatures throughout the night through each phase of sleep. And it does this- Independently for each sleeper on either side of the bed. That's pretty cool. So you can sleep well and feel much better and be more effective the next morning as we are here. Try it for yourself. Go to eightsleep.com/tucker. Use the promo code Tucker to get an extra 350 bucks off the Pod4Ultra.

• 1:25:02Tucker Carlson?

  You can try it with zero obligation for a month. And if you don't like it, just send it back. Again, that's eightsleep.com/tucker. Better sleep today and look great in your morning meetings as our guys.

• 1:25:15Speaker 04

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• 1:26:15Speaker 07

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• 1:26:59Tucker Carlson?

  China had the World Military Games, as you said, but it also sent, you know, hundreds of thousands of its citizens around the world, including from central China, around Wuhan, including to Milan, Italy, and all of Western Europe. And after they knew that this pandemic had begun, that the virus is on the loose, how do you explain that?

• 1:27:25Speaker 02

  Well, it's interesting because there is this theory that Anthony Fauci, a man with so much knowledge, understood that in the wrong hands, this disaster could be World War III, and that the reason why he covered it up was to prevent Trump from, you know, starting World War III and making a declaration of war because of the actions of the Chinese.

• 1:27:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, that plays well. But I think that there's a much harder pill to swallow in that we covered it up because we were part of it. And what we did in the shadows that hasn't been reported yet, who knows how ugly that is. And that's our government. China's going to be China. China's going to do what China does. China is, for the most part, our enemy in the United States. I don't consider them my enemy because I'm not a government, I'm a citizen. And I think that all governments potentially can be abusive.

• 1:28:25Tucker Carlson?

  Apparently.

• 1:28:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, my government is abusive, right? So if people don't have civil liberties in China, if people can't report on things and they're censored on China, if the citizens are, you know, neglected and abused and manipulated in China, I have a logical explanation for that. China's going to be China. The part that I refuse to accept is that, you know, the great experiment of democracy, the sort of the leader of thought on the planet, the guardian of truth and democracy, and, you know, the best system did the exact same

• 1:29:07Speaker 02

  And pretended like they were the good guy.

• 1:29:09Tucker Carlson?

  So I don't understand. I know he's beginning every sentence that I don't understand, but um.

• 1:29:15Speaker 02

  I don't understand either.

• 1:29:16Tucker Carlson?

  Well, after five years, like where are the people, where are the courageous people in the media or the Congress or the executive branch? Where are the courageous physicians, the researchers, the NIH?

• 1:29:27Speaker 02

  They're all in the movie. And that's what's so interesting is that if you look at this movie.

• 1:29:31Tucker Carlson?

  There aren't that many then.

• 1:29:33Speaker 02

  There aren't that many sadly, but there are many that aren't in the movie, but I, I think a phenomenon happened that I joined this party. At a point of real, I think. Apathy even for the people that fought so hard to expose the truth. Because that by that point, there had been a grant proposal that got released to the public. There had been all these damning emails to Fauci. There had been all this and still. No wide scale awareness. And what's interesting is that's when I started making the film. And in a way, what feels like the bottom of this story is that all of this exists and no one's doing anything about it.

• 1:30:13Speaker 02

  And for many people who are not really in love with Donald Trump's policies or, or. Find other aspects of that base hard to swallow. They feel this great hope now. And three people in our film are going to be in prominent. Positions that are historic, the nominations for these positions. Jay Bhattacharya is going to run the NIH.

• 1:30:44Tucker Carlson?

  Wonderful man.

• 1:30:45Speaker 02

  He's been smeared and maligned. He's a wonderful scientist and virologist.

• 1:30:50Tucker Carlson?

  He's a decent human being.

• 1:30:51Speaker 02

  A very decent human being and someone who cares about helping people.

• 1:30:55Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, I totally agree.

• 1:30:56Speaker 02

  He does not have any pharmaceutical underwriting.

• 1:30:58Tucker Carlson?

  No weird agenda. I totally agree.

• 1:31:00Speaker 02

  No weird agenda. Marty Makary.

• 1:31:02Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 1:31:02Speaker 02

  Okay. In the movie. Okay. Marty Makary is a wonderful doctor. Who did whatever he could to challenge some of these sort of subjective medicine that was happening during COVID. He believed in herd immunity. believed in a lot of things that, you know, were unpopular. But the truth is, is that when he said the pandemic was going to spread all around the world back in January, he actually was not loved by Republicans and they called him an alarmist and I remember. you know, a lot of things. So let's just realize that who, who appears to be a politi- a hero and one political party was an enemy a day before. I mean, I'm that person now. I mean, I, if you look at the rest of my movies, I mean, I'm someone who would be

• 1:31:45Speaker 02

  labeled, you know, an enemy of the state for, for someone on the right. The truth is, is that the truth actually matters and that if you look beyond politics, we need to unite around these things. And so the film is a coalition of people, including Jeffrey Sachs, who was on this show and is a, is a wonderful thinker and someone who is clearly on the left and, and Sam Husseini, who's a Palestinian American journalist who's been kicked out of a lot of press rooms, who is, you know, extremely outspoken about what's happening in Israel and, and, and is a, is obviously dismayed by what's happening in Gaza.

• 1:32:29Speaker 02

  And it goes against caste, right? That all of these people agree that COVID was completely and totally an inside job, a lab accident, that Anthony Fauci is, you know, for lack of a better word, pure evil. And, you know, that's what's needed now. And what's incredibly refreshing is many of these voices are now in nominations for huge posts that have been compromised for decades. The NIH has been compromised for decades. I mean, at least as long as since nine 11, but potentially longer. And the FDA, I mean, that's been compromised for a long time now.

• 1:33:13Speaker 02

  And there's also other people. I mean, I was given permission to say this, but Andrew Huff, who's in our film, is undersecretary to RFK. You've got a guy who was a firsthand witness to the spying of a US-funded nonprofit on a Chinese lab and who worked for Peter Daschek's nonprofit, who was then harassed for years and called a lunatic and a lot of different things. And the truth is that he knew what he was talking about, and he's now in a position to use his knowledge of technology and use his knowledge of epidemiology

• 1:33:53Speaker 02

  to monitor pandemic threats. And I mean, all pandemic threats, not the ones that, you know, just come from nature. You know, we actually have people in positions right now. What RFK is going to do, for anyone who understands the extent to which companies are poisoning American citizens with the permission of the American government, literally, okay? Half of the things in a supermarket aisle are not good for you, and when you go to Europe, they're illegal. Okay? Or you go to Japan or another country, they're illegal.

• 1:34:27Tucker Carlson?

  Russia.

• 1:34:27Speaker 02

  Russia, illegal, okay? But here in the United States, they're not. And the amount of health complications that exist from these products fuel the other part of the industry, which is perpetual sickness. And COVID, whether designed to do this or not, creates perpetual sickness. And one of the most frightening things is that this calamity is not behind us, right? In fact, the media wants you to believe that it's behind you. They believe through their data, they claim, that people are over COVID. They don't want to talk about it anymore. How could we be over something that's still augmenting our genes right now? It's still have, has a panoply of reactions, including turbo cancers, even if you just

• 1:35:12Speaker 02

  got the virus and weren't vaccinated? How could we be over that? And how could we be over the fact that when we lied about it originally, when it was lied about and the media didn't cover it? More funding for this research happened. There are more labs doing gain-of-function research right now. And one of the most frightening things that concerns me, and I believe is absolutely urgent right now, is that for the last six months, we all have seen reports about bird flu coming over naturally from cow milk, from a cat, there was a farm worker who got it. And, uh, call me a cynical person. The threat of bird flu, lab-generated bird flu, has existed since the study that Anthony

• 1:35:56Speaker 02

  Fauci conducted, funded with Ron Fouchier and, um, Cara Oka for 10 years. People have feared a bird flu coming out of a lab for 10 years. The wet market proved that you gotta be a little bit sharper at a story of it coming from nature, and for six months now, we've seen story after story, isolated crossover. And it's not just from one source, it's coming from milk, it's coming from a cat, you know? To me, this is them sharpening the tool because it is absolutely inevitable that a bird flu will cross over into humans and it won't be natural. And the one we're going to be infected with is not going to be the one that infected the cat or the cow milk, it's going to be from a lab.

• 1:36:41Tucker Carlson?

  And do we have any sense of what the effect will be?

• 1:36:45Speaker 02

  Covid changed everything about the world. And the fatality is like 1 to 3% max for a virus like Covid. For a lot, it's, some people would argue it's under 1%. Bird flu is like straight down the middle, doesn't matter if you're a kid or an elderly person, you're starting in ranges of like 10% to 50%.

• 1:37:12Tucker Carlson?

  Mortality?

• 1:37:13Speaker 02

  Yes. Bird flu is way more lethal than Covid.

• 1:37:19Speaker 02

  Bird flu, when Fauci funded these studies and scientists were debating the work at conventions, there's a scene of it in the movie. A journalist says, "I thought this was a doomsday virus. Why are we doing this work?" It is a doomsday virus. And keep in mind, all of the transitions and shifts in power that occurred for a virus that was not a doomsday virus. What happens when there is a doomsday virus? Who's going to benefit? Who's going to lose? How much power is going to shift from an event like that? And you've got a situation now where all the people I just mentioned, going to destabilize the FDA, going to destabilize the NIH, going to declassify all of the information that

• 1:38:03Speaker 02

  would prove a story that's incredibly damning for a lot of people, including pharmaceutical companies, nation states. You've got Donald Trump, who's not liked by a lot of the establishment and these bureaucracies that thrive on being insulated, in some ways, more powerful than the President of the United States, some of the bureaucracies. And that's been proven through history multiple times. It seems like it would be a really great time for a distraction. And the risk is that we are going to suffer from another man-made pandemic before we've figured out who's responsible for the last one, and it's going to hurt us so much that we won't even care.

• 1:38:43Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:44Speaker 02

  And that's coming. That's why this is urgent. That's why I have no issue partnering with anyone who wants to do activism around this issue. If we thought nuclear disarmament was a core issue, threatening, you know, the human race, this type of work is in multiples of hundreds, as far as the risk.

• 1:39:07Tucker Carlson?

  So why were there bio labs in Ukraine?

• 1:39:10Speaker 02

  I think that the whole Ukraine thing is really fascinating, right? Like, I can't tell you that-

• 1:39:17Tucker Carlson?

  We know that, by the way, it's not a conspiracy theory, I mean-

• 1:39:19Speaker 02

  No, there's bio labs in Ukraine-

• 1:39:20Tucker Carlson?

  The undersecretary of state announced it in the senate hearing.

• 1:39:22Speaker 02

  Yes, totally, and Metabiota and the connections to Hunter Biden. Metabiota is very much connected to the research, including things like the defuse proposal, including Peter Daszak, who's like an evil scientist slash spy, who's potentially not just spying for the US, but spying for the Chinese Communist Party, and working as a double agent. I mean, all of these, why are all these things, why are they all in the same bucket?

• 1:39:48Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know.

• 1:39:49Speaker 02

  It doesn't make sense. It'd be like, oh, wait-

• 1:39:51Tucker Carlson?

  But why would you have bio labs in a war zone? I don't understand.

• 1:39:55Speaker 02

  Perfect place to have them, right? No one's looking. There's no regulation. You can do whatever you want there. In fact, a lot of the work we were offshoring in China served the same purpose. Their regulations are weak.

• 1:40:09Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that tells you everything right there. I mean, if you're, you know, if I'm looking for a place to construct a bio lab, I'm thinking, I don't know, Geneva?

• 1:40:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:40:16Tucker Carlson?

  Right? I'm not thinking the poorest country in Europe, the most corrupt country in Europe, Ukraine. I mean, why would, why would you do that? Because they're the most, you know, capable scientists, are they or not?

• 1:40:25Speaker 02

  A law can happen in the cloak of chaos and war.

• 1:40:29Tucker Carlson?

  That's exactly right.

• 1:40:30Speaker 02

  We know that from history. I mean, things happen in war zones-

• 1:40:34Tucker Carlson?

  So just that specific question, Tori Anula announces, we've got bio labs in Ukraine, what? A few people, I noticed, I did a segment on it, immediately attacked by CNN, conspiracy theorists. I don't want to single out CNN, but I think when we look, you know, 10 years from now, if we're still here, we'll see that the pandemic was kind of the high point, the apogee of their power, like, maybe the last moment CNN could actually- Have an effect on the country. They had so much power. And time and again, it was not an accident. They were saying things they knew weren't true, but that were consistent with the storyline from people like Fauci. Like, what was that?

• 1:41:17Speaker 02

  I mean, in all fairness, let's be real. Your former employer used to do the same thing.

• 1:41:21Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I almost got fired over it. Oh, yeah, they were mad at me.

• 1:41:24Speaker 02

  So let's not, no one is singled out in the, in the corrupt nature of mainstream media.

• 1:41:30Tucker Carlson?

  I agree with that.

• 1:41:31Speaker 02

  Because it's about ratings. Because Roger Ailes' brilliant idea to make opinion-based news.

• 1:41:37Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:41:38Speaker 02

  Killed the Walter Cronkite approach.

• 1:41:40Tucker Carlson?

  Maybe. I worked at CNN before, you know, Fox started and it was, it was the same idea. I mean, that, you know, that's a complicated question, but I-

• 1:41:49Speaker 02

  I mean, every one of them has a cancer.

• 1:41:51Tucker Carlson?

  If you're saying-

• 1:41:52Speaker 02

  MSNBC, I mean, they had Fauci on and celebrated his book. He was on Maddow. He was on all these people. And look, I know for a fact that Rachel Maddow is a very intelligent person and I think she may mean well. I know Joy Reid. Joy Reid was in one of my films. She's an intelligent person and she means well. The industry that is, that they are in, is driven by this kind of insanity. And it's a miracle that you made it out, honestly.

• 1:42:20Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I was fired, but um-

• 1:42:22Speaker 02

  It's a blessing you were fired.

• 1:42:23Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I agree. But no, my question is not like, are they good people or not? I mean, obviously I know the ones who spent my life there, but the question is like, what are the mechanisms that the government uses to control media coverage?

• 1:42:37Speaker 02

  That's an interesting question. How far up the ladder do we want to go? Do we want to let it be the government controlling media companies? Or do we want to admit that the government has suffered from complete agency capture in every division of the government? And that veiled interests like pharmaceutical companies or the military industrial complex, you know, companies, for-profit corporations, influence the government more than its voters, more than its politicians?

• 1:43:06Tucker Carlson?

  Right. So we're getting back to where you started, which was by saying, I thought, astutely, that what you're looking at- Are powers bigger than nation states, more more powerful than nation states. When you say agency capture, it's not just in the strict sense of a federal agency. It's agency, which is to say the freedom to do what you want. You know, agency, like human agency.

• 1:43:25Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:43:25Tucker Carlson?

  The government doesn't have agency, actually, because it's subject to powers bigger than itself.

• 1:43:30Speaker 02

  Correct, and and I want to, you know, I've been dying to do this, but the deep state was ours first. I mean, you know, the concept of a deep state was a leftist concept of agency capture and things like this.

• 1:43:44Tucker Carlson?

  I still don't use that. I still don't.

• 1:43:47Speaker 02

  It's a buzz, it's a dog whistle.

• 1:43:49Tucker Carlson?

  I agree, and I hate using it because I feel like a freaking wacko because I lived in DC for so long. Family worked for the government and I just always scoffed at people who use that term. But of course, it's completely real.

• 1:44:02Speaker 02

  It works well.

• 1:44:03Tucker Carlson?

  They were right, and some of the people I disliked most, I'll just say it, they were right about that. They were.

• 1:44:08Speaker 02

  And mainstream media, same thing, dog whistle. You you hear that on the left, you're like, oh, I'm done talking to you. Mainstream media, whatever, guy, you know, go back to your conspiracy theorist, right? Let's Bolshevik, communist, okay, terrorist, conspiracy theorist. Notice a trend?

• 1:44:28Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:29Speaker 02

  Right? These deep state mainstream media, people who devise strategies for capturing the population this way aren't dumb. We're we're as a species, we need it to be simple, right? And we are currently being divided by simple concepts like that, even though the truth behind them is very real. We do have a problem with mainstream media being completely captured. And you asked, how how does it happen? Why is it that there are wall to wall ads for medicines?

• 1:45:05Speaker 02

  Do you think anyone sitting at home saying, you know, honey, I want to talk to the doctor about a prescription for Rex Luby or whatever.

• 1:45:14Tucker Carlson?

  Rebelsis.

• 1:45:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, Rebelsis or, you know, you know, I can't even, they're so absurd, the names, they've run out of names, they're so absurd now. What is that?

• 1:45:25Tucker Carlson?

  So it's funny. I mean, I started in cable TV in 1995. That's 30 years. And it was only in the last couple of years, I think it was Bobby Kennedy or someone who's thought about it more than I had, said to me this exact thing. The point is not, and I wondered, like, who's buying this? Who's asking his doctor for Rebelsis? Nobody. The point is to control the news organization.

• 1:45:47Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:45:47Tucker Carlson?

  Right. It's not a consumer play.

• 1:45:49Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:45:50Tucker Carlson?

  Right. I didn't understand that. I don't, I was too close to it.

• 1:45:52Speaker 02

  These.

• 1:45:53Tucker Carlson?

  But that's true.

• 1:45:55Speaker 02

  Large media organizations, considered to be the last line of defense, the free press in the United States, the fourth estate are completely captured.

• 1:46:05Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 1:46:05Speaker 02

  The same way the FDA is captured, the same way the NIH was captured. They're captured. And they're drunk off the teat of the people who are paying for ads. And if someone's going to pay for that many ads and you lost that ad revenue overnight, that's an incredible bargaining chip. You probably shouldn't cover that.

• 1:46:25Tucker Carlson?

  No, that's it. It's your stock price. There's no doubt. I mean, that's, that's a real thing. Um, no, I ran up against it. I didn't understand it at the time. I mean, the problem with hosting a nightly show is it doesn't leave you a lot of time for reflection outside of your area. So, you know, you pick a topic in the morning and then you spend all day thinking about it. Presumably you've thought about it before, but you're thinking about your script and what to write and, but it's just hard to see the context for anything, of course, right? You're distracted. So.

• 1:46:55Speaker 02

  It's an art form, honestly. I really respect and appreciate. The people who are running daily programs like that and offering, you know, to their viewers a take. And I get the privilege to spend, I do it faster than most, but I spent about eight to 12 months, sometimes, you know, 14 or 16, living in a story.

• 1:47:16Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:47:17Speaker 02

  And living in this story for that long and looking at the data and the evidence for that long, I've lost a lot of sleep.

• 1:47:23Tucker Carlson?

  I bet.

• 1:47:24Speaker 02

  I've lost a lot of sleep. I've lost a lot of hope. And I think that people often ask, well, what are we going to do now? So then what should we do then? Should there be laws? Should there? Yeah, there's got to be laws. There's got to be all sorts of things. There's got to be an urgent intervention right now to stop the lab work that's happening that could cause another pandemic. But in a way, you know, you can't turn a battleship in the middle of the ocean. It doesn't do a U-turn. I mean, there's a lot going on right now that needs to be, you know, dismantled. And like I said, what is, what is crazy is that four years ago, under the indoctrination, under the sort of way that I had lived my life, I would look at a Donald Trump victory and I'd say, this is, it's, it's, it's, it's

• 1:48:08Speaker 02

  a disaster. You know, this is the way liberals who are, you know, drunk off MSNBC, they, they think the world is ending. It's a great consumer to have. When a consumer thinks the world is ending, they actually spend really freely. Can get into that in another episode. But the way fear really affects people's, but this constant fear, you know, the people that are actually most afraid of Donald Trump are, a lot of them are extremely powerful folks running bureaucracies who have been able to control the system for a period of time.

• 1:48:40Tucker Carlson?

  A lot of them are Republican senators, actually.

• 1:48:42Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:48:43Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, yeah. And Chairman of Intel Committees, yes.

• 1:48:46Speaker 02

  Yes. And that's, and that's this other side to the story. And it was, it was, it was really heartbreaking for me to have these affiliations over the years and then to see this affiliation that I had identified with. And mind you, I'm not a political person. I see fraud in all politics. But to see that.

• 1:49:09Speaker 02

  Who I believed was out there to help the poor and provide services and believe all these different things about equality and, you know, these buzzwords was the elite. And by the time we've gotten to Joe Biden, it's, the party represents the elite now. It doesn't, it's not doing anything for the working class, it's not doing anything for the poor, it's not protecting the people that I think should be protected. And maybe I'm biased because I've lived in cities most of my life, but there are some services that are needed. And of course, there's corruption in every service. I don't have an answer. And, you know, the truth is, is that a lot of these politicians, they don't have an answer

• 1:49:49Speaker 02

  either. But they'll tell you what you want in order to get there. And when they get there, it's a whole different type of question.

• 1:49:57Tucker Carlson?

  Well, you gotta believe in our business, you've gotta really sincerely believe that saying the truth out loud is a necessary step, whether or not it solves the problem. But without that, you definitely can't solve any problems.

• 1:50:09Speaker 02

  There's a lot of spiritual people who think that just saying the truth is a divine act. We have to be willing to say the truth. It's, people are afraid to say the truth.

• 1:50:18Tucker Carlson?

  That is a core precept of both Judaism and Christianity.

• 1:50:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:21Tucker Carlson?

  In the beginning was the word.

• 1:50:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:23Tucker Carlson?

  And, uh, no, that's absolutely right. And I personally believe that, um, because I, I mean, I know it. But, but just in a political context, just on a policy level, you can't fix a problem until someone stands up and says, actually, here's what it is. So.

• 1:50:39Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm dismayed by all the different signals that exist that sadly, it's not possible anymore. And as much as I want to believe it is on a political level, that if we're not on a search and destroy on those bureaucratic levels and those sort of, all those agency capture. Moments and that we're not just putting crazy people in management positions. And I can, I can tell you, it is, it is crazy for me to see the individuals who I know and who I've sat with and who I know that they have integrity be called crazy, wacko,

• 1:51:24Speaker 02

  fringe, you know, idiots, you know, they're gonna, you know, whatever. And so I think that that's the real reform is, you know, until you clear out that rot, right? And we were talking about pharmaceutical companies having the lion's share of ad revenue across the entire sector. Until you make it illegal for pharmaceutical companies to advertise in the United States, same way tobacco companies can't advertise, you know, on television, you know, they could, they're relegated to magazines and they can't even have billboards in a lot of places. Pharmaceutical companies should be way worse, you know.

• 1:52:03Tucker Carlson?

  Their products are more, their products are more dangerous. I mean, I'd much rather have my kids use tobacco than SSRIs. Sorry.

• 1:52:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's true. Yeah.

• 1:52:10Tucker Carlson?

  So last question, what, you've alluded to this a couple of times, but like, what effect has this had on your life?

• 1:52:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, um, like I said, lost a lot of sleep. I mean, like anyone else, COVID.

• 1:52:24Tucker Carlson?

  Did you lose friends?

• 1:52:26Speaker 02

  You know, what's interesting is I didn't.

• 1:52:29Tucker Carlson?

  Wow. Great.

• 1:52:29Speaker 02

  Because when I could finally get through to people and I had their attention, I saw the transition happen in them. And I think what's interesting is like, if you look at a zombie movie, or you look at, um, you know, a piece of science fiction, there's always a hack, right? There's a hack to the, to the mind control. There's a hack to the sickness that people are suffering from the, the thing that's turning them against each other. And I think that one of the most sinister things about COVID is we lost the ability to sit in the same room, to look someone in the eye, to have a conversation.

• 1:53:05Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:53:05Speaker 02

  And even before COVID, even by the time we got to the 2016 election, maybe before that, we lacked the ability to have conversations across different ideological.

• 1:53:16Tucker Carlson?

  That's right.

• 1:53:16Speaker 02

  You know, means. But the fact remains that if you have a logical conversation with someone about an issue. That that's really where our humanity comes through. And all of the different platforms that we're living off of, that we're addicted to. Social media, you know, regular mainstream media. It's designed to actually take us out of that humanity and to make us mechanical in the way that we live our life. And the more mechanical we are, the less willing we are to say, oh, wow, that's interesting. I feel that in my heart and I truly believe I will make this challenge to anyone

• 1:53:55Speaker 02

  who considers themselves a liberal, a Democrat, who feels heartbroken about this last election. That if you can make it 10 minutes into this film, you will never feel the same way ever again. And I believe that it's not because I'm a great filmmaker. It's not because, you know, it's special. It's because the information has been so disparate, purposefully, that you can't connect it in one sitting. And what the film does is it allows you to connect 75 years of scientific arrogance, of government disasters, all in one place and realize they're all connected. And that has been deprived of the public for decades now.

• 1:54:38Speaker 02

  A lot of it because of cable news, because there isn't enough time to connect it all.

• 1:54:43Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that is true, man. That is the truest.

• 1:54:46Speaker 02

  And so I could sit here with you and despite, you know, seeing you on the air and maybe you had opinions that weren't my own. You're a human being. We're sitting here, we're having a conversation. I don't care who you voted for, because we're talking about the truth now. And we need to have that conversation because everyone is at risk right now. This is not a political issue. Everyone, not just in America is at risk. Everyone on the planet is at risk right now. And if it can benefit certain people so enormously.

• 1:55:19Speaker 02

  Whether it was an accident or intentional, and if so much power can be transferred from an event like this, it's gonna happen again.

• 1:55:27Tucker Carlson?

  That's right.

• 1:55:28Speaker 02

  And that's why I made the film, and that's why I'm willing to work with anyone who's passionate about stopping this from happening again, about holding people like Anthony Fauci accountable, about, you know, getting rid of the rot in these agencies that are meant to protect people. Since when are we not about consumer protections anymore? Remember that part of the United States? When people were trying to protect constituents? It's the opposite. We're selling, effectively selling, American citizens downriver to abusive and somewhat murderous forces that have captured our government. And believe me, they're not Donald Trump. They're big aggro, they're big pharma. They're things that poison us every day.

• 1:56:12Speaker 02

  There's connective tissue to these stories, like in the movie, that if you sat and you experienced it in one place, you would never look at the world ever again the same way. And all I hope is that it can break through enough to do that. And I thank you for having me on to discuss it, you know?

• 1:56:29Tucker Carlson?

  It was an amazing, amazing two hours. Thank you.

• 1:56:31Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:56:34Tucker Carlson?

  Thanks for listening to the Tucker Carlson Show. If you enjoyed it, you can go to tuckercarlson.com to see everything that we have made, the complete library. TuckerCarlson.com.