Try Not to Laugh with Ayo Edebiri and Don Cheadle

Today’s episode of IMO features two very talented (and funny) costars: Ayo Edebiri and Don Cheadle! The two star in the Broadway revival of Proof, co-produced by Higher Ground. They discuss what it’s like starring on Broadway for the first time, their childhood experiences on the stage, and the friendship they’ve developed through the show. Plus, a surprise appearance from a bug sends the whole group reeling… Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com http://imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Michelle Obama?

  Io, your parents were pretty on board with you. Were you always kind of the quirky kid?

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Well, obviously, in my memories, I'm like deeply normal. And then my cousins are always like, "Oh, you are so funny and weird." And I'm like, "Okay, well, how funny."

• 0:23Michelle Obama?

  This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Well, everybody, welcome to IMO in New York. It's a special episode because I'm by myself. My big brother Craig is usually here. I guess. You know, traveling, everything, it's not... He's a busy guy. He's a busy guy, busy guy. But I'm here, and we're in New York, because I just saw an amazing production of "Proof" on Broadway. And we're going to talk about that here today with a couple of special people here who are the reasons why this play is so amazing. Don and Io, it's good to have you here. Thank you. Glad to be here.

• 1:07Michelle Obama?

  For those of you who don't know, "Higher Ground," Barack and I, we were also co-producing this amazing production. And we are just thrilled to be a part of it because this version of the play is exactly the kind of stuff that Barack and I want to be involved with, telling stories that are reimagined in ways that have an impact. So we are thrilled. But I have to formally introduce you all to the IMO audience. So I'm just gonna read your quick bios, just in case you don't know who you are. Oh, appreciate it. Okay. But we have Don Cheadle, the one and only, is one of Hollywood's most versatile and enduring talents.

• 1:49Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 1:50Michelle Obama?

  This is my friend, so I know you're a little embarrassed. Perhaps best known for his performances in the films Devil in a Blue Dress, which I just rewatched a couple of days ago.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Gosh, I also just rewatched it a couple of days ago.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  It's a good movie, right?

• 2:04Michelle Obama?

  It's so good. Miles, you, yeah, you've just turned into another dude.

• 2:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:11Michelle Obama?

  And that, I guess that's your job.

• 2:12Speaker 02

  Yes, Mouse, yeah, he's his thing.

• 2:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, Mouse. But also Boogie Nights, Traffic, and Hotel Rwanda that earned you an Academy Award nomination. Don is an actor, producer, and activist whose work on and off screen reflects a deep commitment to storytelling that matters.

• 2:32Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:34Michelle Obama?

  And Io, my, my little friend here, is one of the most exciting young talents in Hollywood.

• 2:43Speaker 02

  Let's go.

• 2:44Michelle Obama?

  I know, whose groundbreaking role as Sidney in FX's acclaimed series The Bear earned her an Emmy, a Golden Globe, and virtually every other major television award in a single sweep. Damn, girl. She is an actress, writer, director, and comedian whose meteoric rise was made, has made her one of the most sought-after voices of her generation.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  How about that?

• 3:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, what do we do with that? What do you do with that?

• 3:12Speaker 01

  What do I do with that? I don't know, just try to make it to what day of the week it is?

• 3:17Michelle Obama?

  We don't know. We already decided that. We don't know.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  We don't know. I've been calling it one day, but you guys didn't vibe that too much.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  No, it's, it's just not.

• 3:26Michelle Obama?

  Whatever you mean by that.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  No, I get it, I'm not just fine.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  Clear, but I, but there's something there. I think if it was written, it feels like a New Yorker comic joke.

• 3:33Speaker 02

  You have to see it.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it feels like that sort of vibe.

• 3:35Speaker 02

  Because it would be a Monday, but then with it.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  One day.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  Em off and then one day.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Already visualizing it, I'm laughing. There's a smile on my face.

• 3:42Michelle Obama?

  You two are clearly connected already. What, did you know each other before, proof? Because you're like, you really have known each other forever.

• 3:55Speaker 02

  No.

• 3:56Michelle Obama?

  Which, which works really well for this play.

• 3:58Speaker 02

  No, we did not. I mean, we'd met, you know, but we hadn't spent any real time with each other and. For me, because it predates me, you were talking about this play with Tommy and with Mike, you know, before I was on board.

• 4:13Michelle Obama?

  Tommy Kale, the director.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Tommy Kale, director, Mike Bosner.

• 4:15Michelle Obama?

  And Mike Bosner, lead producer.

• 4:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. And by the time I came into it and knew Io was going to be playing Catherine, I was so excited about it. And when we first met, you know, not to be trite, but it just felt like, like what you're saying. It did feel like we'd known each other a long time. And I felt instantly paternal. I felt, you know, my daughter's very close to her age. And I just, yeah, yeah. So it was just right off the bat. And then, once we started working and realized that we worked in a similar way and that we had similar ideas about the approach to the material, and it just all kicked off and kept, kept going.

• 4:56Michelle Obama?

  Did you have someone in mind? Were you thinking of Don as you were thinking about this reimagined version of the play?

• 5:04Speaker 01

  I think, well, Don's name, I'm not, I mean, I think it was the first one that we came up with. I think also sometimes, I don't know, maybe this is just me, but I always do sort of like exercises of like, oh, who could be my parent? You know, who'd be like the dream person? And I think a part of it is, you know, obviously vibe and all those things, but just people who you really admire and whose work you really love. And yeah, Don's sort of like always been on my eternal list. And it was like the first name that both Tommy and I had said. We were like, okay, let's go away and come up with names. And then it was like, well, I mean, but I wasn't sure, as I think I do often with people that I revere.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  I was like, I don't even know if he'd be interested in this, if he knows who either of us is. I don't know. And the fact that he said yes was just a dream. But then, again, you know, meeting, I think sometimes it can be really hard to meet your heroes. And, you know, I think we've all had experiences where you walk away and you're like, okay, well.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  That happens.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  That happens. That's information that I have now. And, I mean, you know, I'm your friend, but like, there is just such a graciousness, but also, and I'm really averting eye contact.

• 6:21Speaker 02

  I get it.

• 6:22Michelle Obama?

  Look at him in the eye, Io.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  When. For me, it's always really heartening. I love my job. I would like to do it for as long as possible. And when I meet people who I really admire and revere, and I see that to them, they are still on the first day. Like, they are still so in communication with their inner child and with their curiosity and with their drive.

• 6:50Michelle Obama?

  Are you calling down a big baby?

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Huge.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  Wow. Nice extraction.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  You got there very exactly.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Just really childish. And sort of, and it was a raw, learned.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  No, but just, you know, like, there's still a curiosity and a hunger and like,

• 7:09Speaker 01

  I don't know. It's, there's no, not that there's, it's like, not a dissatisfaction, but you know what I mean?

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Yes, there is a dissatisfaction.

• 7:16Michelle Obama?

  You're just not content. He's never content.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:19Michelle Obama?

  Always questioning, always digging.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  And that's a very, that's a very similar journey that I think we're both on.

• 7:27Michelle Obama?

  Well, let's, um, let's give our listeners, our audience, a sense of what Proof is about. Um, because it's a revival. Um, it opened in 2000.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:38Michelle Obama?

  Playwright is David Auburn. Um, Tony Winter Pulitzer Prize winning.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:44Michelle Obama?

  Uh, play, and not everybody is familiar with Proof. Um, can you guys talk about premise? And why this reimagined version is so powerful?

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Um, well, the play, according to David, or like to quote David, when he describes it, because often people ask, you know, what is it about? And he says, at its core, it's a family drama. Uh, and at the center of it is Catherine, who I play, who is 25. And, uh, maybe I'll try to do a spoiler free version, but it explores the relationships between herself and her father, uh, who was a genius but troubled mathematician and professor. Her sister, uh, who, they all live in Chicago, uh, who now lives in New York, uh, and comes back home.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  And one of her father's proteges, a student named Hal. Uh, and yeah, it goes through time. It goes through their relationships and, uh,

• 8:53Speaker 01

  One of the questions at the center of it is, I don't know, there's a lot of different questions. But legacy and truth.

• 9:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, those are big themes in it.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  Madness, genius, you know, where is the line?

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:08Speaker 02

  How do we straddle it?

• 9:09Speaker 01

  What does it look like?

• 9:10Speaker 02

  What does it look like? What does success look like? What does?

• 9:13Michelle Obama?

  Sisterhood.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  Sisterhood look like?

• 9:15Speaker 01

  In a huge way.

• 9:17Michelle Obama?

  Trust.

• 9:17Speaker 02

  Responsibility, trust.

• 9:19Michelle Obama?

  It's a big play.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:21Michelle Obama?

  It's a big play and the original play was, it was written for a white cast, a white family. And Tommy Kael and Mike decided, and was it intentional to revive it with a black family? Did you all have those discussions and?

• 9:44Speaker 02

  I think Tommy, you know, wanted to, I think Tommy and David had entered a conversation and with Mike at some point and they decided that they wanted Catherine to be I O. So, once they decided that, it sort of dictated who the family would be in some ways.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Both Cara and Jen, Cara Young and Jen Ha, who are also in the play with us.

• 10:06Michelle Obama?

  Cara plays your sister.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  Cara, my sister.

• 10:09Michelle Obama?

  Love Cara, for those of you who love Broadway, she was in Purpose, amazing in that.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  Yes, she is a living legend. It is really cool to be, I don't know, to work with her and know her and love her and just be like, I'm watching, like, I know what I'm watching. It's very cool.

• 10:28Michelle Obama?

  And then Jen Ha plays Hal.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  He's Hal, who's amazing actor as well. But there, I call them our Broadway doulas because they're a little bit more versed than us. And both of them were like, it feels almost like working on a new play.

• 10:45Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  The way that we have been rehearsing and workshopping with each other, which is really exciting. It's a bit different from film and TV because with this, with theater, it's all about the process. That's kind of all you have. You have all this rehearsal time. You're so funny, I was like.

• 11:02Michelle Obama?

  Did you see you two, you two? Well, let's talk more about the process. It's like, Dad, don't do that.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  Well, you didn't drink a bug.

• 11:13Michelle Obama?

  What are you doing? He's got a bug in your water. I mean, that's a specialty of IMO. We try to.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  You're trying to give me my protein.

• 11:23Michelle Obama?

  Right, exactly.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  I'm sure another one will get in there somehow.

• 11:27Michelle Obama?

  But let's talk a bit about the fact that for both of you, this is your.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  God, you drank it.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  I'm not scared of a bug.

• 11:34Michelle Obama?

  Do you want new water?

• 11:34Speaker 02

  No, I'm cool.

• 11:35Michelle Obama?

  You know, I don't like that.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Do you know how many bugs we eat a year?

• 11:39Michelle Obama?

  He's one with the earth.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 11:41Michelle Obama?

  He understands that.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  I don't know actually how many bugs we eat a year and I have no interest in it.

• 11:45Michelle Obama?

  You know, I'm sure, you know, when you sleep, it's just no telling.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  Well, it's the average of people like Don who are eating probably a thousand bugs a year. And me who's eating none.

• 11:55Michelle Obama?

  Who's taking the bug out of their water.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 11:58Michelle Obama?

  But we digress.

• 11:59Speaker 02

  We digress, we digress.

• 12:01Michelle Obama?

  We digress.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  We're back.

• 12:03Michelle Obama?

  But we don't know because Io and I, we do not try bugs.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  No, we don't.

• 12:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  We'll get that info flying in any minute.

• 12:08Michelle Obama?

  That's good, that's good. But anyway, this is both of your debut on Broadway. So why now, especially Don, for you, old man?

• 12:18Speaker 02

  Cool, cool. I'll take that.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, that one was for you, the old man.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I figured that out.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is, this is the love I get from the Obamas on the regular. This is kind of how.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  You should be so lucky.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel very blessed. For me, it was, again, timing. It was the right auspices. It was, you know, getting to work with Io, having the opportunity to work with Tommy. Obviously, very experienced and really good director. And it's just somehow worked out. I'd been playing around with the idea for a couple of years and trying to work on a couple of different things and developing things and just the time never really presented itself to have that much unencumbered time to carve out to do it.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  But this had all the reasons to say yes for me.

• 13:14Michelle Obama?

  And you guys are both theater nerds, deep down. You in particular, Don, you came out of theater. That was like your first love. Can you talk a bit about that journey?

• 13:25Speaker 02

  I was doing plays, and I was too, in elementary school. And, you know, all throughout high school. And then I graduated and went to California Institute of the Arts and studied theater there and did that, you know, for four years. And did a zillion plays there. And then when I graduated, you know, I did regional theater at the Guthrie and Goodman and the Public and Mixed Blood and the Twin Cities. And I've just, it was something I always kept up. And 25 years ago, as you mentioned, I did Top Dog, Underdog. When this play opened, Proof actually opened on Broadway. And Bridget, my wife, was telling me about it. So it's been something that, that was the last time I've been on stage. But I always knew it was in the offing somewhere.

• 14:10Speaker 02

  And just everything had to come together. And it kind of did. I mean, it's funny because I met Kara on the set of I Love Boosters, which comes out next month. And she didn't know who she was talking to because I have all these prosthetics on for this thing. And I said, oh, I'm Don Cheadle. She's like, what, you're who?

• 14:31Michelle Obama?

  Excuse me?

• 14:33Speaker 02

  But I was talking about, oh, I've got this play reading coming up. You know, I've got this reading offer to do Proof. And I O, Adebri's gonna be doing it. I'm really excited about it. And it's weird how things come together. And I don't know if I'm gonna do it, but I'm gonna do the reading and the timing. And we're just talking about all this kismet stuff. And her phone dings and she looks at it. And she looks at me and turns the phone to me and it said, you have a offer to

• 14:56Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my God.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  Read Proof. And we were like, oh, well, I guess we're supposed to do this.

• 15:00Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah. Steven Spielberg told me that who gets cast is who's supposed to be cast, which is why he never worries about whether somebody can do it or not. Because it's like, it happens when it happens. The right person does it at the right time. Because scheduling and getting this stuff right is a big part of who does what when in this business.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  100%.

• 15:25Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:33Craig Robinson?

  This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, a company committed to helping people move forward and live fully. When I bought my first home, I played it very safe. On paper, it made sense. Mish, what is something you wish you knew when you were buying your first home?

• 15:52Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I mean, I don't want to be repetitive, but hearing you talk, it's the same thing. I mean, I think over the course of our lives before going into the White House, we bought our first condominium and played it conservative, and we bought our first home. Now, my husband wouldn't say that we were being conservative, but it is true that there's, you know, I think there's a benefit to being somewhat conservative because you don't want to, as our dad said, "house poor." And I think we worry a lot about that because that was sort of the theory of working-class folks. But the truth is, is that you want to get the, I wish I had known that getting the most for your dollar

• 16:37Michelle Obama?

  was actually the better strategy.

• 16:40Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah. So what advice would you give young people today as they approach bigger and bigger life choices, like purchasing their first home?

• 16:50Michelle Obama?

  Well, I would say, talk to people who've been in your shoes. You know, I think our parents were never homeowners, right? So we didn't really have them as a guide. So I would say to young people, if you don't come from a home-owning background, ask questions. You know, if you're buying a home, you're going to need a bank. You should sit down with someone who has an expertise to help walk you through the process and help you think about how much you should be investing, how much you should be saving, so that you're not going in blind.

• 17:23Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah. I'd say, while it feels stressful, you'll be very happy with the result.

• 17:30Craig Robinson?

  How do you think our childhood prepared us for making such big decisions such as homeownership?

• 17:35Michelle Obama?

  I think with kids, you let them start practicing with the small decisions, right? You can't raise kids to not ever make decisions and think they'll be ready for the big decisions. So what our mom and dad, I think, did a good job with is that they gave us responsibility early on and let us choose, you know, setting your own alarm clock and getting yourself up, making the decision about what you were gonna wear every day, deciding how you were gonna pace how to do your homework and, you know, what you valued. You know, I think our parents forced us to make small decisions first so that we grew into the bigger decisions.

• 18:17Craig Robinson?

  Exactly. Fortunately, there are resources available for all those first-time homebuyers out there right now. Progressive is offering real support as a first-time homebuyer navigates what can feel like a pretty formidable process. For example, Progressive's Up Payment Program is part of their Open the House initiative, a multi-year commitment to making homeownership a reality for more people. That's because Progressive believes that strengthening communities starts with opening doors and helping more people feel prepared to take that step. As part of that effort, Progressive is expanding their Up Payment Program in 2026, offering

• 19:00Craig Robinson?

  down payment assistance of up to $13,500 each to at least 200 eligible first-time homebuyers. And since 2024, Progressive has committed more than $16 million toward making homeownership feel more achievable. Learn more about the Up Payment Program and Progressive's commitment to first-time homebuyers at progressive.com/openedthehouse, where homebuyers can discover more about housing challenges and access resources and support to empower them in their housing journey.

• 19:45Speaker 02

  I mean, we almost didn't know if we were, you were working up to, what, two days before you came to rehearsal?

• 19:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:50Michelle Obama?

  What were you working on?

• 19:51Speaker 01

  I was finishing the last season of Bear.

• 19:54Michelle Obama?

  Okay, yeah.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  And both Eben and I previously had been cleared to do the shows.

• 20:01Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  That, Eben's now on Dog Day. And I got cleared to do this. And then the, just again, schedules and a lot of math. That's like a pretty big cast. So it ended up pushing our filming. And yeah, I filmed like up till two days before. And I got to rap and then I had to wait till the end of that day. So I got one day to pack and go back home and dump all my stuff and then get all my winter things and then I came out here and then I showed up to rehearsal and I was like, hello?

• 20:31Michelle Obama?

  And theater, you know, look, I love theater.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:34Michelle Obama?

  I love all stage plays, musicals, you name it. There's just something about being in community with people and watching.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  It's powerful, deeply, deeply powerful.

• 20:43Michelle Obama?

  People right there doing their thing. And I'm kind of biased. I do think that actors who have had theater experience.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  You can tell.

• 20:52Michelle Obama?

  And it seems like the lines are a lot less blurred now. I mean.

• 20:57Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 20:58Michelle Obama?

  Before it's like if you did TV and film, that's what you did. Theater people did theater people.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:03Michelle Obama?

  They did the theater stuff. And now, I don't know if it's me, but it just feels like everybody's doing a little bit of everything, you know? George Clooney just did Broadway, Taraji's up there now. I mean, we could go on and on. Can you guys talk about that trend? How does that feel for you guys in the business?

• 21:22Speaker 01

  Be more curious from your end, because I feel like.

• 21:24Michelle Obama?

  Because you're old, you've been around.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  You're so old. You've basically been acting since the dawn of time?

• 21:30Speaker 02

  Dawn of time.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so I guess for you.

• 21:33Michelle Obama?

  When Jesus wore sandals.

• 21:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  I feel like my career has come into fruition, your first role, obviously.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  Sort of, you were the original Joseph in the Tuxedo Killer Dreamcoat.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  The original Joseph.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. But like, I think because my career has kind of have been blown up in this way. After covid, I think also that is a huge part of it. Where I'm like, well, everything is soup.

• 22:00Michelle Obama?

  Right, right.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Has sort of been a bit strange and we're like kind of figuring our way back to normal.

• 22:07Michelle Obama?

  You built your career in strange.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  In many ways, in so many ways, I have come out of the strange, yeah.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  But you know, I've always been an early adopter and about whatever, you know, and I was, I was doing a show on Showtime very early.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  You know, and so I was like, oh, what's the streaming thing about this?

• 22:26Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  Try that. And I've just always been, I go where the material is.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 22:32Speaker 02

  And, you know, so many writers flocked to TV because they were now, they were unable to do what they wanted to do in film because films started becoming just about tent pole stuff. And I've been in a bunch of them. And, you know, those kinds of.

• 22:46Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I didn't even miss mention your Marvel Ocean.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  It's all good. It's fine.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  It doesn't seem fine. You can do it now.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  They had that in the intro and I was like, can you take that out?

• 22:55Michelle Obama?

  You took it out. Okay. So that, I was like, why didn't we talk about any of this?

• 22:59Speaker 02

  Because all of her stuff was so heady and lofty and incredible. And I was like, we're gonna talk about me in a suit. But.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  I can't.

• 23:07Michelle Obama?

  No, what, right?

• 23:08Speaker 01

  I cannot with that.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  But, no, no, no, no hate on the Marvel stuff. Thank you.

• 23:14Michelle Obama?

  Pays the bill allows you to do the theater stuff.

• 23:16Speaker 02

  Yo.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah.

• 23:18Michelle Obama?

  Pays for the barn.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  That's like my dad's like big.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  I wish you didn't know so much about me, Michelle.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  Moving on, to quote Methuselah.

• 23:34Speaker 02

  No, look, I, I think that theater has never left my blood. It's never not been something I've wanted to get back to at some time in some way. And I think, you know, another thing that's playing on this is unfortunately, the economics, you know, of what it takes to mount a production.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  And I feel, you know, kind of conflicted sometimes about the people that we need to put in these plays.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  To actually get. Budgets for the players.

• 24:04Michelle Obama?

  And to recoup.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  All of that. And there's jobbing actors that have been out here, you know, doing it for a long time that are like kind of getting squeezed out often when these kinds of casting opportunities happen. So I, it, it's, it cuts both ways for me a little bit. Because I, I love the opportunity and want to come here and do it. And I really, a big part of also wanting to do this play was really to, it's Catherine's play. It's, it's Io's play. And I wanted to support her and support that journey. And, you know, I'm, I'm the smallest part in it. But I really wanted to come and like.

• 24:38Michelle Obama?

  Well, don't tell people that.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  Pop the kids up.

• 24:40Michelle Obama?

  He's in it a lot, y'all.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  I mean, a lot. They're just in it a lot more. But.

• 24:46Michelle Obama?

  But I do think that, you know, I understand that rub, but I, I think that the way audiences think, I mean, we're trying to get people off their phones and into the theater.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  And I feel like every time it happens also, I don't know, maybe that's my own sort of naivete or whatever, but

• 25:08Speaker 01

  like when it happens, when you experience it, everybody's like so grateful for it.

• 25:13Michelle Obama?

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  And even to the effect of like the type of work that's made, I feel like often the things that come out of, or pierce through cultural conversation are often, often so strange or feature a cast where you don't really know that many people. Maybe you saw one person that, whose name you knew, but everybody else you don't know. You know, there's, it's, there's the weird things, there's the strange things, but then that doesn't end up being the takeaway from like a structural industry standpoint. Like the takeaway isn't like, oh, let's do more shows with unknown cast. It's like, we really like Cooking Stuff in Chicago.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  It's all in the rearview mirror, right?

• 25:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and so, I don't know.

• 25:56Michelle Obama?

  But I think you guys lending your talents to theater is helping because it's going to put people in seats. It's gonna, you know, reinvigorate things.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  Hopefully.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  I hope so, yeah.

• 26:09Michelle Obama?

  You know, it, I, at this point, I don't care why people. Come to the theater. I just want them to come. And if they come because it's like, oh, I know Don and I, oh, I get to see them up close. You guys don't have the schedules and the time to do theater always. So if you can get somebody hooked, then you guys go off. I mean, I like the way some productions are doing it. A production gets established with a star.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  And then you move other people in it.

• 26:34Michelle Obama?

  You move somebody else in it. And then people now know that this play on its own. Yeah. Without the star power is something that we want to see. We want our kids to be in those seats. We want, you know, our communities to be back to that live kind of so.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 26:51Michelle Obama?

  I think it's a, it's a hook. It's, it's an important hook. I don't, you know, I don't think this is a forever hook. I think that the talent on Broadway is unbelievable. Some of the best talent in the business is right here in the city on these streets. I mean, what it takes to show up every day. And I want to talk. Physically, like, yeah. Talk about that for a bit, like how you, I want our audience to understand what does it take to prepare? I mean, how did you guys approach this, this play, your roles? You know, I'm going to tease Don again. I mean, when I saw you, I went with Barack. Barack and I had date night proof.

• 27:33Michelle Obama?

  And we were like, heck, Don got a dad bod? It's like, what did I, it's like the last time I saw you, you were cut up. I thought.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  I am.

• 27:42Michelle Obama?

  What are you talking about? And I know. You are. That's the thing. Because I swear to God, I was like, I expected when I saw you backstage. No, you didn't. My point was when I saw you backstage, I was almost like, oh, great. Okay, it's still in there. I was, I was sitting there thinking.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  Taking so many shots.

• 28:05Michelle Obama?

  Gain all that weight.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  Acting. Acting.

• 28:07Michelle Obama?

  So you weren't wearing anything? You just turned into a dad bod?

• 28:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just pushed my stomach out and.

• 28:14Michelle Obama?

  Don't you didn't, you have a dad. Was it the costume?

• 28:17Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 28:20Michelle Obama?

  But anyway, we digress.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  I don't think this is a.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  I don't think this is a digression. I think we've now leaned into the theme of this podcast. This is really what it's about.

• 28:30Michelle Obama?

  With Don. That's why we have you in the center.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're in the hot seat.

• 28:34Michelle Obama?

  You're in the hot seat.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  No doubt.

• 28:36Michelle Obama?

  But talk about your preparation.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  I mean, I like physically, I I had started doing vocal training like the for the year before. Um, because also I found myself losing my voice during award season.

• 28:51Michelle Obama?

  Because you were accepting so many speeches.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Just because I don't know how to stop talking to people. And I and I was like, I know that I want to do a play. I know and then I knew that it was going to be this play. And so I really wanted to get ready. And that required just a lot of learning about my instrument. Things that also I think I was in practice with, but not uh consciously when I was doing stand up on the regular. And then since doing a lot more TV and film, it's just, I'm also, you don't have to use.

• 29:21Speaker 02

  That's not required.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  I don't have to reach the back of the room when I'm miked, you know, like, so um, that was like a definitely a part of it. Um, and I think when we knew that it was going to happen, we would talk about the script and sort of read it. Um, I don't know when you like had started actively memorizing. Um, but I just had tried to get it into my bones as much as possible. And then when I knew, I wanted to start earlier and then Baron ended up happening. So I would just read it on set if I didn't have like um, a crazy amount of lines. And um, I remember uh Lionel and Will Poulter, I would like pull them a lot. Uh, cause Evan also was working on his own stuff for Dog Day.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  So we would kind of be in little corners, just like reading and then picking up our sides and being like, do we know our actual job for today? And yeah, and there's things where it's like Catherine has these long passages of things where that is like memorized. Or things that are, so that was the first stuff that I tried to tackle. The stuff where I'm like, well, this is. Language that's like in her bones. So it should be the first stuff that's in mine.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  And then.

• 30:34Michelle Obama?

  When you say it was memorized, are there parts of the play that are more improvised?

• 30:40Speaker 02

  When I recite something from memory, but like I'm Catherine.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Acting is so weird.

• 30:46Michelle Obama?

  It's a trip. Yeah, it's like, what do you mean from memory? But it's her memory.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's her memory. So I was like, well, that has to be something that.

• 30:55Michelle Obama?

  Right.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  And then that maybe can go like.

• 30:57Michelle Obama?

  You can't change that every.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  What are things that I know?

• 30:59Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Sorry, my long winded.

• 31:00Michelle Obama?

  No, no, no. I mean, it's, it's powerful. And because I'm, I'm thinking about these conversations with young people listening and young people that are interested in this kind of stuff. Because you guys all talked about, we all have our theater experience when we were young. I mean, I was in the operetta workshop. I mean, there's, there's always, you know, I had an aunt that ran the community theater. I mean, we all have that piece of, well, we, I used to like improv when I was a little kid.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  What?

• 31:29Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah, I did. And you know, it's like theater training prepares you for a lot more than acting. I mean, I think it plays a role in my comfort level.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Public speaking.

• 31:40Michelle Obama?

  In public speaking and the way I interact with people.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  You know, to just adapt.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  It's storytelling. I mean, really what you get adept at or what you hopefully, you know, the, one of the biggest muscles you're flexing is just being a storyteller.

• 31:53Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  And there's not any business that you can even name that doesn't have as one of its components. What's the story that I'm telling about this job? What's the story I'm telling about this business? What's the story that this industry has? So it is applicable to so many different, so many different things. And it teaches you how to play well with others. And it teaches you, you know, that you're not the center of the universe. And you know, you need to be, you know, malleable and there's give and take. And the strongest thing that you can be, I think, as a, as a performer is a listener.

• 32:26Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  And, you know, be able to, to, to reflect back what you hear and, and be in conversation. And I think that's, all of those skills are, are very important to, to just. Manage life.

• 32:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  I think also when I first like realized that maybe this is something that I wanted to do, a big fear that I had because both of my parents are not in the industry.

• 32:51Michelle Obama?

  Yep.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  And we similarly, it's like I have a god mom who went to the first black AME church and would do a Christmas program and she was in

• 33:00Michelle Obama?

  Church basement.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  An opera singer, very much was writing church plays, you know, that sort of thing. But that was pretty much our purview of the whole thing. It didn't go much further than that. I didn't even think I realized writing was a job you could have. I thought that there were actors and directors. Like I didn't, I didn't realize that people wrote the scripts

• 33:21Speaker 02

  Wrote the things you're saying, yeah.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  That were different from the people who said them and the guy, you know, and like Spike Lee.

• 33:27Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  I didn't really know that. And I think I sometimes can forget because I'm like, I get sick of the sound of my own voice, that it can be helpful to hear those more granular, granular parts of things and the more like practical, tactical parts of things. And that is what I think I was able to latch on to when I was also like convincing my parents that I would be okay and that I could survive and that actually there's unions. And the unions have health insurance.

• 33:57Michelle Obama?

  Because that's what parents, how you gonna get health insurance?

• 34:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:00Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 34:01Speaker 02

  I don't think you're going back here. I ain't paying for you to figure it out.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  They would not, and they did not.

• 34:14Craig Robinson?

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• 38:42Michelle Obama?

  I, your parents were pretty on board with you. Were you always kind of the quirky kid?

• 38:49Speaker 01

  Well, honestly, in my memories, I'm like deeply normal. And then my cousins are always like, oh, you're so funny and weird. And I'm like, okay, well, how funny? Why so? Am I a joke to you? Yeah. Also, when I went back to my high school, did I tell you this? I went back and a bunch of my teachers came and said, hey, and everybody was acting so weird. But they were all like, this is crazy, huh? Like, this is really weird. We never saw this for you. Not really. We thought you were gonna live in the alley. Well, but yeah, I was, I was, I was a freak and I, but I, I guess I, I was surrounded by other, uh, like all my friends, we were just all weirdos, like, and, uh,

• 39:34Speaker 01

  my friend Shlee came actually and, um, the, we just were remembering all these like insane things. But we were supporting each other in that and I felt like our parents were really supportive of that. Cause you know, we were well behaved and we made sure the grades were right. And so then yeah, if you wanna like learn how to play oboe or do improv or, um, Shlee is really obsessed with Michael Jackson at the time. And so we, she was like, okay, if you wanna make videos where she's Michael Jackson, using like your dad's camcorder and you're figuring out how to edit or whatever, like, fine. Um, and so, yeah, when I told my parents that I didn't wanna study education anymore and that I wanted to, uh, pursue this, I remember I took them to an IHOP and I was like,

• 40:20Speaker 01

  I was like, this is gonna be the worst moment of my life.

• 40:22Michelle Obama?

  Have some more syrup, man.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Like, short stack on me, you know, and my dad looked at me. Two more sausages, please. Please, keep him, keep him coming, keep him coming. And my dad looked at me and he said, honey, you know, we were there when we raised you, right? Yeah, we saw this.

• 40:37Michelle Obama?

  We've seen you.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  And I was like, right, like, those were the people.

• 40:40Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Who was I, I wasn't taking the Feng Hua bus unsupervised at 10. It's my mom was taking me because she knew I had this passion. And they were taking me to see the Urban Nutcracker and to see Wicked when it came to Boston on tour. And, you know, my dad was always showing me amazing movies. And I found out actually when I graduated, um, which is like funny thinking about the, the show and the legacies that we know and we don't know. My dad wanted to study film. He went to Emerson and then his dad found out, because this was like analog days. So, you know, he, he basically was like, yeah, yeah, everything's fine in America. Um, and then a cousin called my grandfather and was like, he's not studying to be a lawyer. He's going to film school.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  And my grandfather came down and was like, cool, you can graduate?

• 41:27Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  And then you have to like apply to law school after.

• 41:30Michelle Obama?

  Because your parents are immigrants?

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:32Michelle Obama?

  Both of them?

• 41:33Speaker 01

  Yes, both of them. My mom's from Barbados and my dad's from Nigeria. Yeah.

• 41:37Michelle Obama?

  So they were definitely, don't, don't play.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 41:40Michelle Obama?

  We sent you here to be a doctor.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  Responsibilities also. You know, they have siblings and they, you know, they had things to do and people that help and secure things for and, um, and I think, yeah, my, it was a cool thing though where I was like, oh, my dad isn't continuing that cycle. And he wants me to do well and, you know, make sure that everything is okay. But he also knows that like, there's no point in, I don't know, this life if.

• 42:08Michelle Obama?

  If you don't follow your passions.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:11Michelle Obama?

  You know, my father actually, I've said this before, he was the, my dad worked as a stationary fireman, blue collar worker. But my dad was a really gifted artist. I mean, he sculpted, painted, um, got a scholarship to the art institute. We grew up in Chicago, but he didn't pursue those dreams because, you know.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  What are you gonna?

• 42:32Michelle Obama?

  He had to raise a family. He had a, you know, so it's, he, he, he, to understand that there was a generation of parents and grandparents who couldn't do this.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  No.

• 42:44Michelle Obama?

  It wasn't even, it was there in their bones, um, but then.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  That reminds me, I was gonna say, my mom was also a frustrated artist, I think, you know, and it was, I had a very, luckily, a very similar, you know, sort of perspective from my parents who, you know, my parents drove me to Cal Arts and drove me home and there was never any question about what I wanted to do. They were like, oh, are you gonna pursue music or are you gonna pursue acting? Cause those are the two things that you've been passionate about and really wanna do.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  Similarly, you know, you gotta do your schoolwork and get your grades and do all that stuff, but they were like, there was no question I was going to college. That wasn't.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  But they were just like, you can pursue anything you want in college. You're going to college.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  But whatever you study, just really study it and be serious about it. And I can remember, you know, when I first started and it was hard and struggling and would be between jobs and calling my mom and saying, I don't know if I made the right choice. And she said, you've been talking about doing this since you were.

• 43:40Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  Ten years old, don't, don't stop now.

• 43:42Michelle Obama?

  See, that's just-

• 43:43Speaker 02

  Double down.

• 43:44Michelle Obama?

  A beautiful thing, you know, to have parents who are rooting you on when it's times are tough. We have a, we have kids that are gonna do-

• 43:52Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:53Michelle Obama?

  Non-traditional things, um, you know, I have a kid that's interested in the business and-

• 43:59Speaker 02

  He's a good writer, too.

• 43:59Michelle Obama?

  There's many a call where, you know, cause the business is crazy. Yes. And the thing that I, and there are times when she wonders whether in these times when there's so much going on, should she be writing, you know? And the thing I tell her is like, there, there are gonna be a lot of people who don't make it through these tough periods. They just, they're, they're just not situated. And especially when it comes to black voices. Of course. Black writers. Yeah. Black directors. Yeah. Those of you who can stick in there and be there, we need them. We need you. We, we're gonna need storytellers and people with different perspectives, you know?

• 44:40Michelle Obama?

  So I, I mean, probably your parents were ahead of the curve, both of you guys, in thinking that through and understanding the power of having real, clear, decent people with good minds of color in this business. And thank God they did.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:57Michelle Obama?

  I think that's also why it's important that the proof has been reimagined for a black family. First of all, so many of us are, you know, there, there's some people out there who don't wanna believe that there are black families that are professors and clinical psychiatrists and who are artists and, you know, who are geniuses. Yeah. Um, and I think it's powerful to have this family not talk about the truth of their reality, but just living in it, you know?

• 45:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:26Michelle Obama?

  It's like-

• 45:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:27Michelle Obama?

  We, we exist in so many different forms with so many different other challenges other than poverty or crime or whatever.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 45:37Michelle Obama?

  Can you guys talk a bit about, about that?

• 45:40Speaker 02

  You know, going back to the, the, the David Auburn of it all and, um, you know, the early conversations that you had with Tommy about it. There was, there's a clear understanding that these themes, a lot of these themes are universal, but they do look different for different people.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  And you know, what does legacy mean? And what we get to leave behind? And you know, often it does, it is about something financial. And in this play, it does center around the house. And you know, who has ownership of that?

• 46:16Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 46:16Speaker 02

  Who has ownership of dad's work? You know, what do we do with dad's work? What does it mean, you know, to, to, to honor that? Or to exploit it? Or, you know, so I think that a lot of these themes work. But when we were talking about things like mental health, something that has traditionally not so much anymore.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:41Speaker 02

  But I think, you know, has for a long time been like, we just don't talk about that, you know? That's just Uncle Ben.

• 46:47Michelle Obama?

  Especially in the black community.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  He just stays over there. He just has that.

• 46:50Michelle Obama?

  There's nothing wrong with you, boy.

• 46:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're fine.

• 46:52Michelle Obama?

  I know he's in the basement.

• 46:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's fine.

• 46:55Michelle Obama?

  But, you know.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  Now, don't be there at four o'clock.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  He's just funny. He's just funny.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  He does something weird at four o'clock. Just put the TV tray and shut the door and he's fine.

• 47:04Michelle Obama?

  And don't look him in the eye.

• 47:05Speaker 02

  Don't look Uncle Ben in the eye. I don't have an Uncle Ben, just for the record.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  I do.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  But the Uncle Ben I'm imagining is bananas. But yeah, so I think that for, for a black family, like I said, we know the, the things that we brought up to David as far as we have to use, we have to figure out the word that we're using when the police come. Because this Catherine may not get to be abusive.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  To, to the police. And us have another scene in the play.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  You know, so.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  So it's like, what are the word choices? What, what happened?

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, what did she actually do?

• 47:43Speaker 01

  What actually happened?

• 47:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  And what's also happening underneath it?

• 47:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  What's happening is these two sisters are missing each other. So how do we make, you know, maintain that?

• 47:56Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 47:57Speaker 01

  While also still allowing the play to be what it is?

• 48:01Speaker 02

  And we're not detouring off into a play about that.

• 48:04Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  But we also can't act like that's not something.

• 48:08Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 48:08Speaker 01

  That also means something in Chicago in the nineties.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Like, so yeah, that's been cool. I think, um. To what you were saying also about this story and and the now, it's so funny. It's like, I didn't really consciously think about it until we started doing press. And I was thinking about that and what and I'm like, what is that?

• 48:37Michelle Obama?

  That being the the race aspect, or you said?

• 48:40Speaker 01

  I guess. And I was like, oh, it's because I'm a black woman all the time. I'm not thinking about why this is timely. I'm I'm timely. I'm timeless. We are timeless. Our we exist. We've always existed. We've we and we will continue to exist and persist. And so it's like, I don't know, I'm I I'm thinking about it always and everything I do. And also, at the same time, I'm not.

• 49:02Speaker 02

  Not thinking about it, you're just living.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  Because because I have to live my life because it's like, yeah, we are absolutely all political bodies. Like, right, sure. At the same time, I'm still, you know, I'm a human being. And like, and David, in his writing of this, I mean, it's like, one of my favorite things. And I think it's really hard to do as a writer and he does so brilliantly. Every character is right and every character is wrong in the same scene.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  What was she trying to get?

• 49:29Michelle Obama?

  This is the beauty of theater. I mean, yeah, you can do this in a movie, you know, but there is just something different about real people on stage in the audience.

• 49:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, can you talk about that? Because that's one thing we've never had. We've never experienced is like, what's it like sitting there? Because I sometimes it's very noisy in a good way because people are like murmuring.

• 49:57Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah. But that is exactly what was going on and what I found. I I think I said I was saying this to you guys is that there was just a lot of guttural. Oh, I mean, people were feeling it because I think all, you know, there's so many themes and so many people who were seeing themselves or somebody they knew at some level, you know, that I don't, it didn't, it was, it felt like it was unexpected to the audience to get hit with some of this stuff.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  I've had friends who have come in and I'm like, I'm sure you as well, not that, not funny, ha ha, but like, they'll be like, hey, why didn't you warn me about like X specific thing?

• 50:41Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  I'm like, oh, like, my bad. I'm like, why didn't you tell me it was two sisters? And I'm like, I, my fault.

• 50:48Speaker 02

  Right.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  You know? Yeah, to that, like, that micro or as macro as, like you're saying, mental health or, you know, an ailing parent or...

• 50:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, a lot of that, a lot of that's come back. People going like, wow, I just went through this or I had to deal with this.

• 51:01Michelle Obama?

  And if it had been an all-black audience, they would have been talking to you all. They'd be like, who do you think you are, girl?

• 51:08Speaker 01

  We've definitely had some of that. I think at one point, this one, there's a, there's a scene where I'm taking things out of a backpack and, uh, yeah, this, this one I just heard. It's also like, we have to, sometimes moments will happen and it's like, I just find myself like looking or I'm just like, I just need eyes right now. I just need eyes to stay here and then I can go back and great. Uh, and a woman I just heard go, oh, uh, orange.

• 51:38Speaker 01

  And me and Jen were just like, we're here, we're here, we're here. We're still in this moment. We're here.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  You're Catherine, I'm Hal. I'm Hal, you're Catherine.

• 51:47Speaker 01

  You're Hal, I'm Catherine, I'm Catherine, you're Hal. We're here, great. And I'm like, okay, what does this mean also for the rest of the show? This is quite early on that an orange appears.

• 51:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  And so we're like, what's, what is this gonna do? You just don't know.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Somebody told me that they were sitting in front of two black, behind two black women. And when Karen came on for her second, uh, scene, they were like, oh, here she go. Uh oh. Here she go.

• 52:18Michelle Obama?

  That's why I love us.

• 52:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:20Michelle Obama?

  I love us. And the beauty of this reimagined revival is that it's gonna bring in new audiences.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:30Michelle Obama?

  And I think that, you know, I mean, that brings life into it. It's a whole nother generation. It's a whole nother community of people who are gonna be introduced to David Auburn and his writing and the complexities of a script and these sets of characters. And that's what you're feeling.

• 52:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, and we have a lot of programs that we're supporting and fantastic.

• 52:53Michelle Obama?

  Let's please talk about that.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  The players supporting to do just that, to broaden access, to get students in at a price point that's not prohibitive. Because so much of it is prohibitive. When you talk about, you know, these plays, they're so out of reach for some people.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  The amount of friends that I have, like, that I met in college and were born and raised in New York and had never seen a Broadway show because there just wasn't access. They can't afford it. And they didn't go to the right school, be it public or private, that had a program that would take them for a day. You know, it's like, kinda mind boggling. So, yeah, we just both, I think, really had the intention and were matched in that with our producers and to trying to make accessibility a real, practical thing.

• 53:41Michelle Obama?

  How do you guys specifically influence that decision?

• 53:46Speaker 02

  Skin in the game. We're giving money back toward it so that we can support it and having people match it and going out and fundraising around it.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  And we were, I mean, I was like, in a way that I think was newer for me. Maybe you're a little more versed, but I was like, I'm thinking of the people I know who have money.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  And I'm figuring out how to write an email or like do a call. And I think also just meeting with our sincerity, like that this is something that we really want because I think we've both been beneficiaries of access. And so some of those programs look like buyout nights that are gonna happen, reaching out to different, like, schools and nonprofits.

• 54:30Michelle Obama?

  And the New York Public School System is just...

• 54:32Speaker 01

  Yes, we partnered with the Department of Education.

• 54:35Michelle Obama?

  You hear that, y'all?

• 54:36Speaker 01

  So you know, we're trying.

• 54:38Speaker 02

  Still pursuing some organizations for people who it's just a barrier, just the price points are barrier, not just students, but just anyone who can get in there.

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• 59:18Michelle Obama?

  The community of actors that are supporting each other. I mean, one thing I love hearing from you and Bridgette Don is, in your early days, that community of young actors, many of whom are still your friends, you know, who you all, some have made it, some haven't.

• 59:41Michelle Obama?

  And what that meant to you and I O. I'm curious about whether that, a similar community exists for you. You want to talk a little bit about that?

• 59:52Speaker 02

  I think we were very lucky. You know, Bridgette and I bumped into each other a lot in the early days. We were all trying to get work in L.A. And I graduated, when I graduated from Cal Arts, I graduated with some, you know, some guys who were my similar types. And we kind of all lived within a block or two of each other, all together, you know, roommates, you know, three sometimes, three in a place, two in a place, but we all kind of lived around each other. And when we would have auditions, we would just, everybody would go.

• 1:00:19Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:20Speaker 02

  I'd be like, Bruce, I got an audition. Jeff, I got an audition. And we would bum rush the audition together. And I'd go in and then I'd, you know, be coming out and go, wait, can you see my friend? And they're like, what?

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  See him. And then he'd go in and you'd go, hey, one more of us. Can you see one more? And they would say to us like, you know, if he gets the job, you don't get the job. I was like, yeah, but we get the check.

• 1:00:42Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:43Speaker 02

  We're trying to keep this money in here.

• 1:00:45Michelle Obama?

  That's amazing.

• 1:00:47Speaker 02

  I gotta borrow from him, he's gotta borrow from me, we gotta pull this bread. So one of us has to get it. So we kind of had that mentality and we were very fortunate to have that because it was not that way. For most other people out there, it was doggy dog, it was cutthroat. But something about having that kind of comfort also made it that when I think we walked in the room, we weren't like the sweaty desperate, have to get this thing, which is so off putting for a lot of, you know, you can, that feels uncomfortable. You want to be around somebody that you're like, I want to be around this person. So we were able to sort of, that community kind of help each other feel that. And then it just kind of spread.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  All of us were out there trying to do the same thing and so many of us know each other and knew each other from that time. And, you know, one of my closest friends from that time, his daughter's my goddaughter and they live, she lives with my kids, they all live together still, you know, in their 30s. And so it's, it was just something that's, that's amazing. I'm still very close with those guys. And I do think it was a rare and unfortunate thing. And I feel very lucky that, that we had it.

• 1:01:56Michelle Obama?

  That doesn't sound like the business we here talk about.

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  It is not, it is not. And now anymore, I mean, when people ask you, I'm sure when people ask me, they're like, I want to act, what can I do? I'm like, I, when I started, we went in a room and talked to human beings.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  I mean, when I started, you went in the room and talked to human beings. And then like in the middle of that story, it changed.

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  It changed.

• 1:02:19Michelle Obama?

  So what is it now?

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  So these are. You got a camera in the corner and you're doing self tapes. And sometimes you don't get the whole script or you get, there were supposed to be all these rules that changed around it. Like you couldn't get six pages the night before to have to memorize and come in and that kind of, I don't think anyone's obeying that stuff.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  No, it isn't.

• 1:02:37Speaker 02

  They're still doing, so you're meant to have like a camera set up and a good mic and a backdrop that works. And a quiet place where you can shoot it and you're. Expected to without benefit of notes, without benefit of any insight from anyone who's created this.

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  You're directing yourself or your friends are directing you.

• 1:02:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're reading with whoever's available.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  You're maybe like if you're not borrowing space from a friend, they're they've they popped up in L.A. I don't know if they're they still exist, but it's psychotic. Rooms that you would pay for.

• 1:03:06Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  So it's like you're paying to audition.

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  For the right to not get a gig.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  To not get a gig, you know, it's it's a lot.

• 1:03:12Michelle Obama?

  Which is just making it a more exclusive experience.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  Thousand percent, yeah.

• 1:03:17Speaker 02

  So it the business is changing every day and now with this insane merger that might happen. It's like there's gonna be fewer and fewer places to work.

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:26Speaker 02

  We don't we don't I I think we don't know. So when people ask me what they can do.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:31Speaker 02

  To become an actor, I say, do anything else. And and if that's gonna discourage you, then maybe you shouldn't do it.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:40Speaker 02

  You know, because it's gonna be a slog unless you unless you get super, super lucky or just undeniable. So I say, work.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, just work.

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  Read plays, write, write, write. You know, do you don't have to just work when you get a job. You can be working on being a better actor, a better writer on your own all the time. You have an iPhone, you can make a movie. You can, you know. And now there's no barrier to upload it.

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  Me and my friends or my cohort, I guess, that I think about, a lot of us did come up generating our own material. When I think about Rachel Sennett, when I think about Quinto and like, you know, that we.

• 1:04:20Speaker 02

  East Ray out.

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, we were and follow, I mean, we were following them and Donald and people, you know, where it's like, okay, right. Yeah, you make sketches and you post them online or you tweet or, you know, you do funny Instagram posts. You make videos like you do these things at the same time, though. Those are also the people with like Rachel and I would ride the train and we would swap sets and give each other notes on our sets. You know, and and I would go to Quinta and she'd be like, cool, I went to this. You know, I did sets here, here and here. Zach went here, here and here. These rooms are good for this. These rooms are good for that. Like, we were doing work in the real world as. Well as online and I think exchanging information with each other as well. Um, not wanting to gatekeep from each other.

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  Cause to what you're saying also, like I, I, I really was resonating with that, like, oh, the people that I was friends with and that I connected with and I still feel connected to, I don't think um ever felt like that threat of like, I have to be the only one in the room. You know, like, I really do believe, and there's more friends that I just will not name drop, but who I love really dearly. But where it's like, we all knew that there was space for each other, especially amongst like black women. Remember like having a conversation and then like, and then name drop, but like with ZU A at a job when she was writing and I was still assisting. And she was like, yeah, well, that's like, obviously like a trick that they want to play on us to, to

• 1:05:44Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  Cut each other out.

• 1:05:45Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  There's space for all of us.

• 1:05:47Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  And if there isn't, then we make space for each other. Duh.

• 1:05:50Michelle Obama?

  There you go.

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  And I was felt like I was like such a little baby writer and I was like, thank God, you know? There's people like that good and Janelle James is at that same job and it was the same thing. She was like, yeah, they're not gonna, no way.

• 1:06:01Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:02Speaker 01

  You think they're gonna get us?

• 1:06:03Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  No, we stay in it. And that is, I think, a, a real skill, that endurance, that, you know, fortitude, that you have to learn and that's pretty invaluable, I think, just as much as talent, sometimes even more. And I'm sure you can think of people I can't who are, I go, this was the most talented person that I ever knew.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  Person's great, can't bust a grape.

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  You know, and, and, and when the going gets tough, they, they, they back out, which is not to say that that isn't, you know, valid. And that your feelings can get hurt. This can be hard and long and confusing and you can, I mean, it's

• 1:06:43Michelle Obama?

  And careers are, they're highs and lows.

• 1:06:46Speaker 01

  There's highs and lows and it's a weird thing also when it's like you're Passion, especially if it's connected to creativity, but not just that, but when your passion becomes your vocation, when it becomes capital.

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's dangerous. You can pimp your job.

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  It's really trippy. And so being able to find ways to navigate that, withstand that, have people that you can talk to. Even, I mean, we had a day where I had to, it was just like, "Help!" Do you remember that in rehearsal? You were like, "Oh, yeah, that's it. That's the job." Some days feel bad. And I was like, "Oh, okay." That series is gonna be something else.

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  Hey, yeah, you'll get over it.

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you know, I guess I did because I'm here.

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  You too.

• 1:07:30Michelle Obama?

  Well, having you two, the dynamic duo in this play, it's really the magic, but the entire cast is magic. And we are just grateful that you guys made the decision to dip your toe back into the theater lane because it absolutely matters for all of the reasons that we talked about.

• 1:07:58Michelle Obama?

  Before we close, what's next is the question. What's next for you?

• 1:08:04Speaker 02

  Good question.

• 1:08:05Michelle Obama?

  I O U or, or you may have your what next.

• 1:08:08Speaker 01

  We're both here till July, so next is...

• 1:08:10Michelle Obama?

  So let's just...

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  What is it now, April?

• 1:08:12Michelle Obama?

  The play runs until...

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  Next is May, and the May is June.

• 1:08:14Michelle Obama?

  July 19. Yeah.

• 1:08:16Speaker 02

  And then there are things. There are things that are supposed to happen afterwards and, you know.

• 1:08:24Michelle Obama?

  Do you say that because it's like, it could happen, it might not, or I know there's some...

• 1:08:28Speaker 02

  I say that because some could happen, some might not. Some are definitely happening, but I don't know that I want to happen with them, so you know.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  You're so funny.

• 1:08:35Speaker 02

  You know, it's like, I don't, it's...

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's real.

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  It's real, because you know, the one thing...

• 1:08:41Michelle Obama?

  Well, you've also earned the right.

• 1:08:42Speaker 02

  Well, look, I think anyone at any time can say what they want. To do with their time. And what is valuable for their, to do with their time. Because it's the one thing, I don't care how much they pay you, you can't buy. You can't get it back.

• 1:08:58Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:58Speaker 02

  And you don't want to be in a situation where you look back and go, wow, I just wasted eight months of my time, or six months of my time. You know, especially when I'm a little half dead.

• 1:09:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, you're old.

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, almost out of here.

• 1:09:12Michelle Obama?

  You know, yeah.

• 1:09:12Speaker 02

  So you don't want to like.

• 1:09:13Michelle Obama?

  Pick and choose wisely.

• 1:09:14Speaker 02

  Correct. You don't want to mess that up.

• 1:09:17Michelle Obama?

  I forgot.

• 1:09:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, you forgot.

• 1:09:18Michelle Obama?

  I forgot, you rolled. I'm sorry.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  Well, no, because he's such a good actor. He was making you think he was young.

• 1:09:23Speaker 02

  Should I flex again?

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. Give him the gun.

• 1:09:26Michelle Obama?

  Show the guns again.

• 1:09:28Speaker 02

  We're fine, we're fine.

• 1:09:29Michelle Obama?

  There you go, there you go.

• 1:09:31Speaker 02

  But yeah, that, that's, that's, um, there's, there's definitely, and surprisingly, more than there have ever been. For me, things lined up.

• 1:09:42Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:43Speaker 02

  For years, that if I wanted to actually push go on. That I know I would be booked for a long, long time. So I'm trying to be strategic and mindful and thoughtful about how I really want to, want to do this, because.

• 1:09:58Michelle Obama?

  And then there's life, too.

• 1:10:00Speaker 02

  That's what I'm saying. We are predisposed as actors, you know, to have that engine of like, I gotta eat, I gotta eat, eat, eat, eat. It's never gonna, it's not gonna be here. Oh, I'm unemployed again. Well, if I don't take this job, there's never gonna be another job, you know? It's easy to get in that, you know, hamster wheel mindset, even though we've done it for so long and you feel like that's, I can't logically support that that's true, but it could be.

• 1:10:22Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:22Speaker 02

  You know, are they gonna find out? Are they gonna realize that, oh no, I was snowing in this whole time? You're actually a bum. Yeah, you're never getting another job. So.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  That old Hollywood trick is a cheetle, he's a bum.

• 1:10:35Speaker 02

  He's a bum.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  He's a bum, that guy, he don't want no one to watch.

• 1:10:41Speaker 02

  He's been snowing us for years. Thousands of them.

• 1:10:46Speaker 01

  He's old, I tell you.

• 1:10:47Speaker 02

  He's old.

• 1:10:48Michelle Obama?

  He's old, so old.

• 1:10:49Speaker 02

  How old is he?

• 1:10:49Speaker 01

  Older than the sun, that cheater. Why, I had that chomping on the cigar wet.

• 1:10:54Michelle Obama?

  So talented, my friend.

• 1:10:56Speaker 02

  Thank you. So, yeah, we'll see, we'll see. One of the six jobs that's coming up, or two, I'll probably do.

• 1:11:03Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:03Speaker 02

  But I won't talk about them right now.

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:11:05Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  Keep a secret.

• 1:11:06Michelle Obama?

  We'll have you back.

• 1:11:07Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, we'll talk about them when I'm back, yeah.

• 1:11:09Michelle Obama?

  What about you, little missy?

• 1:11:10Speaker 01

  What about me? I am, I am excited to finish this play and then I also have a, well, I'm the opposite, I guess. I have some time free for the first time on the acting side in a really long time because bear, as Jamie Leagars has announced, bear will be ending.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  Bear's over.

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  And that's really cool and scary and exciting. And, yeah, and then I'm writing again and I'm working on a few things. Some have been announced, some have not, but...

• 1:11:41Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna do it.

• 1:11:42Speaker 01

  Don't.

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  I won't announce anything.

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  Don't.

• 1:11:44Speaker 02

  I won't.

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  You're in secret keeping mode.

• 1:11:46Michelle Obama?

  Can you do?

• 1:11:49Michelle Obama?

  Breaking news on IMO.

• 1:11:50Speaker 02

  No, won't do it.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  But, yeah, I'm, I'm excited about that and excited to kind of, um, maybe, I, I just turned 30.

• 1:12:01Michelle Obama?

  Now, now you're old.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  Now, I'm, I mean, they've kicked me out of Young Hollywood so, so ferociously. I'm in old Hollywood now. But, uh, it's, it's an interesting thing, like, time. I think the just past few years have, I, I really, and like friends who are older than me and not even by that much, who would literally, I would be like 28 and they would be like 31, they'd be like, "Be careful, you know, be careful about your time, be careful about your energy." And I'd be like, "I don't believe you."

• 1:12:30Speaker 02

  It's endless, I have all the energy in the world.

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  And then it's like, "Oh, my God, there's my body." And it's tired and I do need to rest and I also do need to like recuperate in order to generate. Like, it maybe the reserve was a lot deeper because it was just coming from a place of all this expression that I hadn't, felt like I was able to do for so long.

• 1:12:51Michelle Obama?

  And there's youth.

• 1:12:52Speaker 01

  And there's free... Oh my god.

• 1:12:54Michelle Obama?

  It's like, cause you're just young.

• 1:12:56Speaker 01

  The folly of it, yeah.

• 1:12:58Michelle Obama?

  It's like, now when I stand up, I have to stretch like my dog Sunny.

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:13:03Michelle Obama?

  Cause you just can't get up and walk right away.

• 1:13:05Speaker 01

  So what do we do if I also have to stretch?

• 1:13:07Michelle Obama?

  That means you need to take a break.

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  Great, okay, so then maybe I do that.

• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  And maybe some supplements.

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, for sure, yeah. I need you to leave me in more stretches.

• 1:13:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  He's limber.

• 1:13:18Michelle Obama?

  Well, yes.

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  He's limber.

• 1:13:19Michelle Obama?

  We believe in, that's my biggest thing, yin yoga.

• 1:13:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:23Michelle Obama?

  Big stretcher.

• 1:13:24Speaker 01

  Do you like morning and night, that type of vibe, or do you?

• 1:13:26Michelle Obama?

  I need to do more of it, but I at least do it, like a ninety minute session once a week.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  That's amazing. Okay, great. So that's good. That's something for me to log and maybe not do for a minute, but I'll remember it.

• 1:13:37Michelle Obama?

  Right, you don't have to do it for ninety minutes, but you can do.

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  But this has been making me need to be more physical in a way that's really great.

• 1:13:44Speaker 02

  You gotta like, the eight shows a week thing, it's like, you really can't take it for granted.

• 1:13:49Michelle Obama?

  It's, it's a workout.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  I mean, that's like a whole other podcast. I'm secretly very woo woo and the things that, we're talking just about like, life and the things that I've learned in the past few years, I've, I've become really interested in our bodies as like, yeah, as just like instruments and the things that we are maybe not as connected to in like, western society, that like, that there's, I don't know, that there's other civilizations that have been existing.

• 1:14:20Michelle Obama?

  Been doing it for thousands of years.

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  You know, and my father is a cancer survivor and when he was sick, he got really into like, eastern medicine and,

• 1:14:30Speaker 02

  Saved me.

• 1:14:31Speaker 01

  And, and really genuinely, that's like, he's the same. And now, it's like, we both are like, so like, what's going on with your acupuncturist? You know, it's really, and he is somebody who like, I think that was definitely a jolt for him and, um, I had one image of him, you know, of my childhood and now he's the one who's like going on jogs and doing his little Peloton and, he does yoga and all these amazing things and I, and I really am like, wow, you are a lighter, happier person than, maybe who I grew up with, partly because I think you're like in communication with your body in a way that you were not because.

• 1:15:11Speaker 02

  Because you just didn't do that.

• 1:15:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, you didn't do that.

• 1:15:13Speaker 02

  It wasn't a part of the tradition.

• 1:15:16Speaker 01

  A man, a black man, an African man.

• 1:15:19Speaker 02

  Doing a downward dog.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  You're joking.

• 1:15:20Speaker 02

  Get out of my face with that.

• 1:15:22Michelle Obama?

  Did you lose something dead? Under that table?

• 1:15:24Speaker 02

  What's under the table?

• 1:15:25Michelle Obama?

  Can I help you find your keys?

• 1:15:27Speaker 02

  Did you drop something?

• 1:15:28Michelle Obama?

  Because you are not. You didn't mean to be on the floor. Black people sometimes don't even like to be on the floor. Why would I get on the floor?

• 1:15:35Speaker 02

  Why would I get on the floor?

• 1:15:36Speaker 01

  Why would I do that?

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  I didn't put these clothes on to get on the floor.

• 1:15:39Michelle Obama?

  That's exactly right.

• 1:15:40Speaker 01

  I actually really, like, the idea, I'll never forget moving to L.A. and meeting people where they're like, are you grounding? And I'm like, am I a 13-year-old? What are you talking about? And they're like, no, take your shoes off and feel the earth. It's like, I'm good, like, I'm on it.

• 1:15:52Michelle Obama?

  I was like, you might as well ask me to eat a bug.

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  Okay, you guys are the call back.

• 1:15:57Speaker 02

  Well done, well done.

• 1:16:00Speaker 01

  And, um...

• 1:16:01Michelle Obama?

  That means the bug has to stay in now.

• 1:16:03Speaker 02

  Yes, you guys, I know that was a problem. He's like, I gotta...

• 1:16:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're not cutting them out.

• 1:16:06Speaker 02

  Don't worry, I'm so buggy right now.

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  I'm so full of bugs.

• 1:16:10Speaker 02

  I'm so full of bugs.

• 1:16:11Michelle Obama?

  Oh my God. Well, anyway, you two, it's been a delight. I'm proud of you, as always, love you to death, loving you so completely. You, this role is you. Yeah, you got a little Catherine in you. I remember our first meeting. Yeah, we had a...

• 1:16:31Speaker 01

  I was thinking about it, I was thinking about it.

• 1:16:33Michelle Obama?

  We, you know, I'm sure Io was like, because we were like, this young girl, she's got, I got a thing. So we just reached out, it's like, girl, what you up to? Nothing. And she came over to the vineyard. And I'm sure you were wondering, okay, I'm here. And she sat down and she was so like...

• 1:16:52Speaker 02

  Io.

• 1:16:53Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. And Barack and I were like, yeah, we know that, that, that girl.

• 1:16:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:16:58Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, we, we know a lot, that quirky, weird, genius, curiosity, fire, all of that, you know? Fearlessness, all of that is, is what's keeping you going and what is gonna fuel you for many, many years to come. So that you are an old person like me and Don on the other side of this table.

• 1:17:23Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know if I will ever be as fortunate to get this old.

• 1:17:26Speaker 02

  No, you won't. You won't, especially if you keep bringing it up like that. You ain't gonna make it past July.

• 1:17:34Speaker 01

  I like that professionalism. You're kicking it in the other one.

• 1:17:38Speaker 02

  Of course, that affects me. I'm not gonna kick you off before I get mine, you Simon.

• 1:17:44Speaker 01

  That was genuinely also like maybe the most exciting 36 hours of my life. Because that was also the day after I threw the first pitch.

• 1:17:53Michelle Obama?

  Oh, you had a lot going on. Well, that's great, first pitch. Did we have lunch? Did we feed you? Did we?

• 1:17:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was really good. It was really good. It was a really beautiful day.

• 1:18:04Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. Well, it's good to see you blowing up. You have earned every bit of it. I want to make sure that our audience goes to see Proof and on Broadway until July 19. It is an amazing production. And to all the young people who are going to benefit from this accessibility program, you know, we want to hear from you, you know? Young folks who get to see Proof, want to hear about those conversations that people are having after the show. Because you can see here, you will go in, you know? If you go with the family, maybe you're all going to be talking for a couple of weeks about it, so.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  One of my friends came with, actually, he came with his mom and dad the night that you guys were there. And he was like, they were already talking about the play at intermission, and then they realized that the Obamas were there. And he was like, and so now it's like connected forever.

• 1:18:58Speaker 02

  Forever, right, yeah.

• 1:18:59Michelle Obama?

  And you never know, we might be there at any moment in time.

• 1:19:02Speaker 02

  Let's go.

• 1:19:03Michelle Obama?

  We might drop by.

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  Beautiful producers.

• 1:19:07Michelle Obama?

  Because I love Broadway, yeah, exactly. So you never know.

• 1:19:09Speaker 01

  There's some really good shows on there.

• 1:19:11Michelle Obama?

  They're coming with notes.

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, obviously.

• 1:19:12Michelle Obama?

  It's like, for sure, for sure. But there are no notes. You guys have done it up.

• 1:19:17Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:19:18Michelle Obama?

  Congratulations. Thanks for being here. Love you guys.

• 1:19:46Speaker 05

  I'm Emma Greed, host of Aspire with Emma Greed, the podcast where I sit down with people who don't just dream big, they build big. If you love Michelle and Craig on IMO, just wait until you hear their episode on my show. Michelle told me about the moment at 26, when she lost her father and her best friend in the same year. It made her walk away from her corporate law career to figure out her why. That's the kind of conversation you get on Aspire. We talk about mindset, ambition, and doing the work that actually moves the needle. So if you're ready to raise your standards and take charge of the life you're building, Aspire is where you start. Follow and listen to Aspire with me, Emma Greed, available wherever you get your podcasts.