Chef Marc Vetri’s Ultimate Philadelphia Food Guide!!

Adrienne and Joe are joined by culinary legend Chef Marc Vetri, one of Philadelphia's most influential chefs, acclaimed cookbook author, and a key force behind bringing the Michelin Guide to the city. In this episode, we also discuss: Why he chose Philly over New York in 1998 and how the local food scene evolved How Philadelphia welcomes hometown chefs versus industry outsiders Marc’s Philly food map: breakfast pho, Reading Terminal Market, cheesesteaks, Zahav, and Royal Izakaya Opening Vetri in the early days when diners weren't ready for regional Italian fine dining Staying strictly in his lane: Italian culinary philosophy and why rules vary region to region The two-year lobbying effort to bring the Michelin Guide to Philadelphia The concepts behind his restaurants: Vetri, Fiorella Pasta, and Pizzeria Salvy Walk-In Confession: A baby lamb vs. goat mix-up that sparked a long-running feud with a food critic Follow Marc: @marcvetri Follow the show: @chefscutpod Follow Adrienne: @chefadriennecheatham Follow Joe: @insta.flamm

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  If you want to know where to eat in Philly, you could ask the internet or you could ask Chef Mark Vetri, the city's most influential and acclaimed chef, who helped shape the local restaurant scene and fought to bring the Michelin guide to Philly. Today on the Chef's Cut, he's giving us his guide to Philly dining.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  If anyone's coming to Philadelphia, like that's obviously my first recommendation that they eat.

• 0:35Adrienne Cheatham?

  From the sandwich that defines the city.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  I think there's kind of two right now that are special.

• 0:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  To a dinner worth planning a trip around.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  It's the best sushi place in the world. Not in America, the world.

• 0:47Adrienne Cheatham?

  But first, Chef's Cut Nation, you know what time it is. Please take 10 seconds of your day to rate and review the show wherever you get your pods because it really helps. All right, let's bring in our guest, Chef Mark Vetri.

• 1:06Joe Flamm?

  Welcome back. We got a legend in the house today. One of my favorite cookbook authors as well. Chef Mark Vetri joining us on the Chef's Cut Pod to talk about his incredible career. So first off, Mark, thank you so much for joining us, taking the time. You're an extremely busy guy, so this is incredible.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  Legend means, it means though, that I'm actually old. So I mean, I don't know I'm gonna sound like that, but you know.

• 1:34Joe Flamm?

  You know, your book, Il Viaggio di Vetri, was one of the books when I, when I started working at Spiaja in Chicago and I had to learn a lot about Italian cuisine. It was one of, uh, one of the first books I read.

• 1:46Speaker 01

  That one, I think, when I read that, 2007, I guess. That one is actually still sort of my, I mean, I just love that one, especially because it's like my whole sort of story.

• 1:57Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, that's what I still buy for my chef today. And I think is a great, that's a great one with like great stories as opposed to, you know, like, I think your newer books are so much like, they're so tactile, right? Like, you know, the mastering pasta, the mastering.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  Sure, sure, sure. The new pasta. More science, yeah. Yeah, the more like learning about stuff, specific things, messing things together and all that stuff. But the Il Viaggio book was like the story.

• 2:22Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. You know, so one of the things we talked about, obviously, Philadelphia is your home. That's where you're raised, is where you live now. I've, unfortunately, I've never been to Philly. I, it's on my list. I'm trying to make it out there this fall. We're trying to go out to Arc of Bel Air.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Like, it's not hard. There's like, there's like these awesome things called airplanes.

• 2:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  You know, it's like, it's like an hour and a half from, from, from Chicago.

• 2:48Joe Flamm?

  You know, we only have two airports here. Maybe if we had a third, I'd be able to get it. You know, so one of the things Adrian and I were talking about is Adrian loves Philly. She's a huge, huge Philly fan, talks about it a lot on the pod. Constantly has been saying, you know, she thinks it's one of the best food cities in the US right now and how, you know, it's always been good, but she feels like, you know, the last five, 10 years has really exploded. So.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  I agree, yeah.

• 3:11Joe Flamm?

  My kind of ask is, you know, if me and Adrian came out, you know what I mean? I get, I get out of plane today, age gets, you know, on the Amtrak or you know what I mean, starts riding her bike from New York or whatever. You know, like what's, you know, we get off the plane, you pick us up, where, where's the first spot we're going? Where you're like, you know what, you're here, this is the first thing we gotta do off the plane.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  So many, you know, my sort of morning, like, you know, when I'm like, where am I gonna eat? Fo 75 is like one of my once a week, once, once every other week sort of spots. And I like, I don't like actually heading there for lunch. I actually like heading there a little bit early, like nine o'clock, have a little foe. Usually I actually stop over there with Michael Solomon often. Uh, you know, I just love it there. Soup in the morning, a little bit of meat, a little bit of soy sauce, a little bit of hot sauce, rice noodles. Uh, I just love it.

• 4:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  That sounds awesome. And that's, that's not what I would have expected for the first stop of the day, but I am so here for it. So everybody has a spiel about their city. I'm originally from Chicago, so when my friends are asking me about the best food cities, I tell them Chicago, Philly, New Orleans. And if I'm meeting them in Chicago and I'm taking them around, I always have a spiel about what makes Chicago such a great food city. And same for New York, I've been here 20 years. So I have a New York spiel also, but what is, what is the Philly spiel for you? What makes the food scene there so special?

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Well, I just think it's like, there's such an awesome variety here. You know, and that wasn't always it. Back in 1998, you know, when I opened up, there was like not a lot of restaurants here. Um, and there was not, and there was like red sauce and there was, you know, sandwiches. But there was no really awesome, you know, Mexican food. There was no awesome French, there was no, there wasn't a lot of like real sort of restaurants. Philly is like so real and it's got such a vibe. And there's all these little like neighborhoods, Fishtown, you know, Old City, Rittenhouse, Fairmount.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  And, and every sort of area sort of has its own vibe. Philly's just like, you know, within like three miles, there's like everything. You can hit South Philly, you can hit Rittenhouse, you can get Fairmount, you can get Washington Square, you know, you can get Old City. I just love it here and, uh, you know, this is, this is my, my home.

• 5:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  It's such a great city. And you talked about when you opened Vetri in 98. So back then in 98, most chefs were not opening restaurants in cities like Philly. They thought to do serious restaurants, you had to open in California or you had to open in New York. And you spent time outside of Philly training, but you came back there when you wanted to open your restaurant. So what made you want to prove that stereotype wrong? That this type of restaurant could exist in Philly?

• 6:27Speaker 01

  I wasn't sort of thinking that. I was, I was actually in like, uh, New York, uh, 96, 97. Um, and I was said, was at a restaurant on the Upper East Side. And I was looking around and I was like thinking about a restaurant. And the restaurant that I was at, uh, Bell Blue, 70th and Lexington, there for about two years. And I was just kind of thinking, 30 years old and I was, and I always kind of said to myself, I want to open up a restaurant before I'm 30 years old. And I was, and I was just ready to be 31 years old. And I was like, oh my God, I gotta open up a restaurant. And I literally walked up to the owner and I was like, listen, man, I gotta go. And he was like, what's, what do you mean you gotta go?

• 7:12Speaker 01

  And I was like, well, you know, I have to open up a restaurant. And he was like, why? I'm like, well, because I said to myself this, blah, blah, blah. And, and he was like, well, you know, what if I give you more money? I'm like, no, it's not you, it's me, trust me.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  So I was like, whatever. I know. It's, so I was like, whatever you need, I could like stay a month. I could stay three months, whatever. So I like, so I ended up staying like one month more and then I left. But then I was looking in New York and I just like looking at the rents that were just like so expensive, you know? Because I sort of liked it there, but then I started looking here and it was like $1,500 a month rent, you know? $2,400 rent. And then the same restaurant like space there was like $7,500, $9,000.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  And I was like, you know, so it was less about like making the restaurant here because I wanted to showcase Philly. It was like, there's no fucking way I'm opening up a restaurant in New York with that rent, you know? So then, you know, so I actually started looking and, and then I actually found this and it was, uh, super like reasonable. It, you know, had a really awesome legacy here. You know, this is the original, um, Le Beck Fan. And, uh, there was, there was a lot of restaurants after that. And it, and this is, you know, it just has a really, really awesome history of, of, uh, wonderful, wonderful restaurants. So I was like, I'm gonna open up there.

• 8:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's amazing because that restaurant, Le Beck Fin, has such an enormous impact on the food scene. Every chef and cook that I know that's originally from Philly, before moving to New York, they worked at Le Beck Fin, like.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Everybody worked at Le Beck Fin, everybody.

• 9:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  If you're from that area.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  He was a legend, you know? He was here for 40 years. He was, he opened this, you know, in 1969.

• 9:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  But with Philly being so insular, I've always seen it as if you're from there, you can open a restaurant. Does Philly embrace outsiders? People who are not from the city and move there to open restaurants?

• 9:29Speaker 01

  You know, you have to show us that you love it here, you know? And, and it has to be, I think, small. Like we, there was a whole, like, so I opened in 1998. Around 2005 or so, there was a lot of chefs from, I think, New York. Same thing, they were looking at rents in New York and they were looking at rents in Philly and they were starting to move here. For example, I remember, uh, Seraphina, they opened up.

• 10:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  Uh, yeah.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  They opened up here. But I remember there were, like, everyone was hush, hush. And it was right on like Rittenhouse. And it was this huge, you know, new something or other. And they, oh, we have this New York restaurant tour coming in. And everyone's like, who is it? And then, you know, and then we finally were like waiting and it was like Seraphina. And everyone was like, oh, great, you know, like, and then, and they walked in like, throwing their stuff, like, we're Seraphina, we're huge in New York. And, and everyone was like, you know, whatever. And it really, and it was, nobody went. Everybody hated them.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  But when like, you know, someone like, you know, Greg Vernick was from Philly, who was in New York and like, you know, you know, worked for Jean Georges and all that stuff, when he was moving, he was gonna open up something here. Everyone loved him because he was just a young chef, left here, sowed his oats, you know, so to speak, somewhere else, learned a lot and now he's opening up here. So like, that's what we love.

• 11:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  So Chef, we've had our morning fa, we're ready to go. Now I want to take Joe to do one of my favorite things in Philly, which is the markets.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Oh, markets, sure.

• 11:30Adrienne Cheatham?

  If we're gonna do a market walk, what is the first market that you would take us to to walk in Philly?

• 11:37Speaker 01

  You know, I would say, I mean, there's obviously, uh, not 9th Street Market, which is nice, but I think the Reading Terminal Market is really, really fun. Um, it's got all the Amish like stuff, it's got all the vegetables, it's got all the meat stuff, you know, roast beef sandwiches there, the Knicks is like incredible. I love, oh my God, you know, sometimes I will be, be actually hanging out and I'll be like, you know what? I need a sandwich and I'll, and I will just, you know, run over there and it's great. Um, but they have everything there, you know? 9th Street's awesome also, and it's really fun, but you're outside also and, uh,

• 12:18Speaker 01

  for me, I think, uh, Reading is just like more Philly.

• 12:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  And Joe, you have not been, which kills a little piece of me every time, but Reading Terminal has every kind of food place you could imagine. It is like the original food hall, but better.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  It's really cool.

• 12:38Joe Flamm?

  That's, that's the Knicks with like the roast pork sandwich.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, they have roast pork, they have the roast beef, they have, oh, it's just, and it's just like wet. And the rolls are kind of wetish and sloppy and.

• 12:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  You're speaking our love language.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  Running, running down your face, it's all over your shirt. I'm gonna, I'm gonna probably head over there later now because I, you guys, I'm like, it's 10:30, you know, I'll be here for another half hour. I could walk over, you know, be there by 11:30, all good.

• 13:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  But that's the thing. So Philly has this beautiful, robust scene that is like Chicago, like New Orleans. It's very blue collar, right? So.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Very blue collar.

• 13:17Adrienne Cheatham?

  The only fine dining restaurant that I had remembered really hearing about in Philly was Le Bec Fin. So you had fine dining French, which people kind of expected, but fine dining Italian, you know, that's a different concept. And one that not everybody understands. Joe talked about having issues, you know, like with Spiaja. People would be like, why are you charging so much for pasta?

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that was the case. That was, I think, yes, years ago. But I think now they understand.

• 13:47Joe Flamm?

  Now it's more well-known. I still get to people, I, you know, I mean, I'm sure you get this, maybe, you know, I don't know. I saw people come in sometimes, they're like, you know, you said this Italian restaurant, you don't have spaghetti and meatballs and you're like.

• 13:59Speaker 01

  Well, that was, that was, I mean, honestly, that was like years ago because, you know, Philly's all about like red sauce also, which, I mean. Yeah, we all love that also. Like, no, no one's, no one's looking at that and being like, that's not good. I love, you know, all that stuff, meatballs and eggplant parm and, you know, everything else. Philly was that, and that's why when I opened, it was like, you know, hard because, you know, we opened and, you know, it was slow. We would do like, Monday night, we did six dinners, you know, Wednesday night, we did eight. And then the weekends, we would do a little more fill up, but folks would walk in our, our first, you know, year open and just, you know,

• 14:43Speaker 01

  look at the menu and be like, where's the eggplant parmigiana? Where's the meatballs? There's nothing, there's nothing here for me to eat. Like, well, sir, you know, I lived in Italy and, you know, that's really awesome food. But this is like real Italian food, you know, we have like wild boar ragu. And they would just honestly like stand up and just be like, ah, no thanks, and just leave. You know, so we had to kind of train them what real Italian food was all about, you know, that, that, like, that was the first, you know, sort of year.

• 15:16Joe Flamm?

  Did you ever like in that first year, like sitting there and I, you know, and I remember, you know, I, I worked for Tony Batuato and he had Spiaja for 37 years. And I remember asking.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  I love Tony, by the way, yeah.

• 15:25Joe Flamm?

  He's the best.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  I love Tony, yeah.

• 15:28Joe Flamm?

  But like in that first year, could you have really fathomed like, you know, it's like, none of us, you know, you don't open restaurants to close over with the idea of that. But like sitting in that first year, thinking like 28 years from now, I'm still gonna be sitting in this dining room. We're still gonna be here, we're still gonna be rocking. Like, could you let yourself go there in your head or are you just like, I gotta make it to next week? And if I make it to next week, maybe I'll make it to the week after that.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  I mean, I, it's not even, it wouldn't even have been on my highest expectations. Like, like, like, I mean, if you ask me then, like, what's your medium expectations, what's your, what's your like high? And then what's your like no fucking way expectations? It wouldn't even have made it to no fucking way. It would, it would have been. I mean, two days ago was our 28th anniversary and, um.

• 16:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  Congratulations.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  You know, we were just like, holy shit. And it always makes me sort of remember this one sort of moment way back when. So it was our first year open and, you know, we had like leaks in the wine cellar, you know, whenever it rained, it was like water flowing in. And we had the landlord there and he was this old slumlord. And then he had his, uh, his actual son-in-law sort of ran things and, and, you know, we were just fighting them. And then my father was there and like, we're yelling at him and we're outside and like the actual son-in-law, you know, he started yelling at us.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  And my father started yelling at him and like, Michael looks at us and he yells and he's like, we're gonna get you guys out of here. We're gonna get you guys out of here. And my father just looked at him and had this line that I remember the rest of my life. And he just looked at Michael and he was like, hey, Michael, we got a 20-year lease, we're fucking married.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  And it was the greatest line ever. And we went inside and my mom looked at him and just like, that wasn't good, Sal.

• 17:41Adrienne Cheatham?

  I think that was perfect.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  But anyway, we're married and I thought I would never make it to 20. I was like, 20 years is forever. But now we're 28. It's like, oh my God, how does that even work? How does that even work?

• 17:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's the thing, like you've opened such different restaurants, you've opened, you know, pasta omakase tasting menu. You've done pizza restaurants, which beautifully were named after your father.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:06Adrienne Cheatham?

  Um, you know, you've got fine dining to neighborhood institutions, small seats, larger.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  But they're still all the same.

• 18:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  But you remember, they're still all, you know, the Italy, you know, sort of thing, the Italy sensibility, you know? Like, I'm not opening up like, uh, the hamburger spot, I'm not opening up because Asian food is hot right now. Or like sushi is hot, I'm gonna open up something like that, you know, I'm, I'm the one sort of, uh, vibe guy, you know?

• 18:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  You're a cuisine monogamist. I like it.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  I just, I just, I just love Italy and everything that I have opened and everything that I will open is all about showing, you know, what Italy's all about, the foods, the culture.

• 18:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  And I have a question about Italian food because from Joe, I never worked in Italian cuisine, but I've learned a lot about how strict some of the rules are. But what is one Italian food rule that you're happy to break or you think shouldn't be a rule?

• 19:13Speaker 01

  Well, you know, so I think you have to understand, and you know, you'll obviously know this also, like, the rules are very, very varied from region to region.

• 19:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  You had the one area, like, this is how you make noodles, this I make sauces. And then like six minutes from there in this other area, that, well, that guy doesn't know anything. This is how you do it, this is how you, you know? And so, you know, when I lived in Italy and I learned and I was just kind of working all around and I would be like, oh, I know how to do this. And they were like, that's not how you do it here. This is how you do it here. You know, so there's rules, like, there's like certain, you know, like the old, the old rule was, uh, fish, you're not allowed to stick in any sort of like mozzarella or like Reggiano cheese with it.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  But then, you know, you had certain areas and like, you know, lobster with mozzarella is an amazing, is an amazing combination, you know? So it's like, you know, you just never know.

• 20:20Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, that's a good point because I remember working with people over the years and, you know, there's a guy who like learned this one thing at this one restaurant. And then he'll tell everybody, you don't know anything, you're doing it wrong, you're doing this. And then we'd get a Staj or, you know, a student coming over from Italy who's like, oh, well, I do this and I do this and this is how we make it. And everybody looks at the other guy who told us we all didn't know shit and we're like, oh, really? The Italian told us that, uh, you were wrong.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. But then there's also stuff, yeah.

• 20:48Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I always feel like in, in Italy, there's like whatever, if there's a region that says this is the way we do it, you could also find a region that will completely contradict it. You know, you just gotta do a little more reading, a little more research. And it's like, you'll find a region that's gonna do it the way you want to do it, that thinks the other region that's doing it is like, shouldn't be a part of Italy anymore because of the way they do it.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 21:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  So before we move on to dinner though, I do have to ask because we're all from sandwich cultures. I am particularly partial to sandwiches.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  All about the sandwich.

• 21:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  So we've talked about the denix, we've talked about the roast pork, but what about, before we move on to dinner, are you gonna take us for a cheesesteak or a hoagie?

• 21:28Speaker 01

  I knew you were gonna be a cheesesteak.

• 21:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  Or is there another one? I don't know, because I've actually never had a cheesesteak in Philly in all of my business. Nope.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  I think right now, I mean, there's a lot of them.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  And I think they're all, they're all awesome in their own sort of, you know, way. But I think nowadays, the guys who are kind of making their own rolls and are really like making it nice, those are the ones who are kind of rising up now, you know? So I think there's kind of two right now that are special. And that would be obviously the one that everyone hears about. Angelo's is really, is really, I think they opened up something also in New York. They're amazing and there's a line there. And then there's a newer one, uh, Del Rossi's, that's really amazing.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  Um, and the owner there, um, Nish is his name, um, he's like making his own rolls and he's like, like the rolls are incredible, you know? And he makes them every day. It's a really amazing steak sandwich.

• 22:44Adrienne Cheatham?

  We will move on to dinner. You know, we do have to get dinner in. There is such a robust scene now. There's a lot of famous, well-known places that get a ton of press. Show us the Philly that you're excited about now. Where would you take us for dinner?

• 23:00Speaker 01

  There's obviously the one that that I love eating at and you guys know Michael Filamano Zahav. I mean, there's really, I mean, it's amazing.

• 23:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  He joined us on the pod recently. It was great.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  I saw that. Yeah, he's amazing. And actually, where I am now, like, the room that that I'm actually in right now is actually where he lived also, by the way, for like a year. He broke up with the girlfriend and he didn't have anywhere to live. So I was like, oh, you know, you can live in the office. There was another room in the office. So he lived in the office here.

• 23:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  Every chef has spent a few nights in the restaurant.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  And I'm in the room that he actually lived in and slept. So

• 23:50Speaker 01

  really funny.

• 23:50Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's hilarious. He didn't tell us that.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  Just an aside.

• 23:53Joe Flamm?

  And he's, I think.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  It'll all come out soon.

• 23:56Joe Flamm?

  He's on the the cover of the your original book, the Il Viaggio book, right?

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Il Viaggio book, yeah.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  But anyway, like, yeah, like Zahav, if if anyone's coming to Philadelphia, like, that's obviously my first recommendation that they it's it's just like, it's incredible. You know, they have all these, obviously, salads and then the hummus and then little apps they have. And then if you you obviously finish with the lamb shoulder and it's just like, it's like, what the fuck, you know?

• 24:26Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  Who even makes food like this?

• 24:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  So good.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  That being said, there there is a lot of new, young restaurant owners, chefs. Friday, Saturday, Sunday is really amazing.

• 24:39Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  You know, he's a good friend. We've eaten there a lot. And it's just a great restaurant. It's a great vibe. He's a local guy.

• 24:48Joe Flamm?

  Friday, Saturday, Sunday, they their pastry chef, actually, she used to work for me and she she actually made my wedding cake.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  Oh, cool.

• 24:57Joe Flamm?

  So that one has been on my list for a while, too.

• 24:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  It's great. My husband and I went there on our last trip. It was so good.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, awesome. That's amazing. Vernick is awesome. You know, I I actually mentioned him earlier. Her place is really amazing. Amanda.

• 25:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  Amanda.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  She worked for me for a lot of years as well. There's a bunch of South Philly restaurants. Polizzi is incredible. God, the list goes on. It's just like so many opened up. I like, I've only made it to like, some of them. And they're all like mad, not mad at me, it's just like, oh, good.

• 25:34Joe Flamm?

  I'm trying. I'm trying.

• 25:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, and Philly has so many special restaurants that are just like, unassuming, not pretentious, but fucking amazing food. Great execution, incredible ingredients that you guys get.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  I mean, the other one, Royal, Royal Sushi.

• 25:52Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  It's the best sushi place in the world, you know, like.

• 25:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's on my list, too.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  Not in America, in like, the world.

• 25:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  Wow.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  You know?

• 26:00Joe Flamm?

  Damn.

• 26:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  I can't wait to go there.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, you you go there and and have like, the omakase. And it's like, you know, it's incredible. It's like, how is this even here in Philly, you know?

• 26:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  And you seem so passionate about all these restaurants. And I didn't know until recently that you were actually a big part of bringing the Michelin guide to Philly.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  I was a big part.

• 26:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  That? I had no idea. I didn't know that, like, you know, some chefs are like, no, stay out of my city. But you actually wanted to bring Michelin in.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  I did.

• 26:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  What was your motivation there?

• 26:35Speaker 01

  I just was like, listen, I mean, as long as they're out there, the whole award thing is not like, my vibe or like, my scene or anything. But I just thought like, we ought to be sort of like, mentioned in there, you know?

• 26:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  For sure. Because they were because, you know, they were they were adding a lot of cities, you know, that I heard about, like Denver and Atlanta and Florida and like, Washington and like, New York habit, but right in the middle is.

• 27:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  We're there. And it's like, how are they not here? You know, so I fought and, you know, I spoke with the governor about it. And yeah, sort of was able to make him understand that, that it is super valuable for the city. You know, because like, folks from all over the world, they they always sort of look at that. They're like, oh, you know, we're gonna go to Philly. Where do we want to eat? And they're gonna look at that, you know? And like, even if you don't have a star or anything, if you like, recommend it, or if you're mentioned in there, this is a good place, you know, and not everyone's going to be able to go to like, Michelin star restaurants, because if they're like, they're they're a lot of money, you know, but you're gonna look at it for other things also. It's, you

• 27:44Speaker 01

  know, so it's more for Philly should be represented in everything that's out there that that a lot of other cities are also represented.

• 27:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  How long did it actually take for all that work to pay off when they act when they finally said, we're gonna come to Philly?

• 28:04Speaker 01

  It was about two years.

• 28:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  Wow.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  From start to finish, you know?

• 28:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's good to know, because there is hope with all these restaurants getting the recognition they deserve. And there are so many special places in Philly that it makes sense that they are getting that love and does put them on more of a national and international scale. Because when they're, you know, tourists coming over to New York, say they're spending three or four weeks, and people are like, where should I go? I'm like, well, don't forget, you can take the train down to Philly and spend a couple of days there and then come back to New York. You know, that's not far at all. You can go to DC, you can go to Philly, and there is exceptionally great food, that you're right, you don't have to spend an arm and a leg on a tasting menu. You can get incredible food at all types of places. But we are not

• 28:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  leaving Philly without going to your restaurants. So we have a long list of places to go to for dinner, but on our list.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  By the way, you also got to come to Vetri, by the way.

• 29:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes, we gotta come to Vetri, Salvi, we got a Fiorella.

• 29:05Joe Flamm?

  Vetri, I think, has been on my list, you know, and it's, Vetri has always been one of those ones where it's like, I feel like, it's like, a pilgrimage of, you know, chefs who cook Italian food in America. Like, you you have to go, you know, you know, you have to go at some point, and you know.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  That's what I actually say. Thank you.

• 29:23Joe Flamm?

  You know, like, hopefully, hopefully have an espresso on the stoop, you know?

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Listen, I'm waiting for you. I'm waiting for you here.

• 29:31Adrienne Cheatham?

  I mean, I I heard, as much as I've been to Philly, I've been, I've had your food at events that you do, like the Alex's Lemonade Stand and some of the other charity work that you do. I've tried your food there. But everybody talks about the gnocchi and everything else. Don't get me wrong, but like, I saw, I've seen so many videos about that gnocchi. Like, I gotta come and get it.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  Spinach gnocchi, there are guts and gnocchi now that's over at Fiorella.

• 29:56Joe Flamm?

  Fiorella.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Fiorella is also super fun.

• 29:59Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, that's that's up on my list, too.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  That place was in my head for a lot of years. And I was like, we have to, you know, because all of my restaurants always had like, the garmo station, the noodle station, and meat and fish station. And the noodle station was always like, six burner stove, and then the boiler tank. And I always used to say to myself, you know, this, right here, six burners and the boiler should be a restaurant. Like, that's it. Noodles, it should be a restaurant. For years, I was like, you know, we would rock out 300 out of that six burner stove and then the boiler tank. And, you know, so I was always like, this has to be a restaurant.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  And then I started looking. And then I finally found Fiorella. And, you know, we opened and Fiorella is 700 square feet, like, the inside. And it's just like, six burner stove, boiler tank, 15 seats right at the bar. And you sit there, and you just watch the guys like this, you know, you're just like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, pasta down, pasta down, you know, you emulsify, emulsify, emulsify, boom. And it's just like, nonstop. And it's awesome to watch and they interact with you. And it's just magic.

• 31:21Adrienne Cheatham?

  And what's the experience like at Salvi? So we've we've talked a little bit about Fiorella and Vetri. So what is the vibe at Salvi?

• 31:29Speaker 01

  Salvi's fun. Salvi obviously has the wood oven there. So we make all, you know, margarita pizza, different kinds of things. But then we also have like, the meatballs, the salads.

• 31:41Joe Flamm?

  That was the one that's named after your father, right?

• 31:43Speaker 01

  My father, yeah, exactly.

• 31:45Joe Flamm?

  So I had, I worked with a couple of people who worked for you, who came to Chicago. And I had heard that.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  They all know Sal.

• 31:53Joe Flamm?

  They all talked about Sal. They all talked about, you know, your dad, and he just, you know, incredible, like, legend and how he used to come in. I think it was, this is as the story goes by, by secondhand, is that he would, on Fridays, he would come in and he would make staff meal.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:08Joe Flamm?

  And so when I opened, he made it like, I mean, every day, Monday to Friday. And then as as he started to age, it was Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. And then as I started to open up the the other restaurants, he he liked Amice, because that was like, near Vetri. So he would do Vetri Wednesdays, and then then Amice, he would do Fridays. And then then then it was just like, you know, once a week. But yeah, he made the most awesome family meals, made like, the beet loaf, like, stuffed with egg. And he used to make, you know, sausages and, you know, all sorts of things. But, yeah. Yeah, I always heard stories about that.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Sit down with all the line cooks and he would and he would always mentor the line cooks. And, you know, I have so many folks who used to work for me, you know, when I like, you know, I like, see them anywhere, they're like, you know, I just want to say, you know, you know, I used to ask your father, like, what should I do? And he was like, and he would like, let me have like, stock advice. And he would let me have like, opening a restaurant advice. Oh, when you do this, you got to then. And like, he would meet these guys for lunch. And like, they'd have lunch with my father. And it was awesome.

• 33:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  That is so cool.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  All right, Chef, well, we have one more part of the show that we love to call walk-in confessions. So what do you got for us today?

• 33:42Speaker 01

  You know, my, my first like six months opener. So, um, we had a writer here who was eating here. Uh, was his name John Mariani. He was a huge writer years ago and, um, he was eating here because he actually heard about us. But it was like one of those weird nights, you know, so I always have my baby goat that's on the menu. It was a baby goat, smoked baby goat. And, you know, we've had it since I've opened and, uh, it's just one of those things we, we order four of them a week. It's like the greatest thing, smoked baby goat. You know, he was eating here and he was just like in a rush and he was kind of annoying me. They were like, oh, man, you gotta walk out and say hi to them. You gotta do the show and

• 34:25Speaker 01

  this and that. So I walked out and I was just like, I was just like in a rush because I was like still working, like I was working the line and I, and I didn't want to say hi to him because I was like really busy. And he was like, hey chef, you know, I'm like, hey, what's up? He was like, you know, what do you recommend? And I was like, you gotta get the baby lamb, you know? And then he just looked at me and he was like, oh, but the server said it was like the goat. And I was like, yeah, I was just in such a rush and because it was lamb and then we switched to the goat. And I was like, same thing, you know, and I just went inside. And man, he wrote this most scathing review.

• 35:10Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  From then on, he just hated everything. He was just so mad. And he wrote, I mean, I don't like remember the whole thing that he just wrote in there like, this was bad. Pasta was horrible, this and that. And then when I asked Chef Vetri about what he had, he said lamb is the same thing as goat. Anyone that knows. And he went into like the meat and the texture and the meat, the texture, like, you know, it's not the same thing. Any chef would realize that. And he did a whole soliloquy on like lamb versus lamb versus fucking goat. And I was just like, dude, I, yeah, I knew it was fucking goat, you know,

• 35:52Speaker 01

  but I was just in a rush and, and like, we had lamb the night before and I just said baby lamb, you know, big fucking deal. But I am convinced he hated everything. And that like started this war, like of like him and me and like, you know, we like hated one another for years. And he always wrote horrible things about me and I, you know, like, yeah, we didn't like each other for years. Now, now I don't give a shit anymore. But I'm just, it was like, one of those moments where I was like, I'm sorry, I said lamb, bro. Sorry. It was like.

• 36:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  But if you hadn't gone out to say hi to his table, also, he would have been pissed.

• 36:30Joe Flamm?

  I'm here for a great critic feud. That is right up my alley, Chef.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Well, this one, we, we would, we would actually need another hour for me to like, let you know what I've like said to him and what he's said to me. But we, we, we're okay. It doesn't matter. I mean.

• 36:44Joe Flamm?

  So, so is that when you started training jujitsu? Cause you're like, next time I see this guy, I'm putting him in an arm bar?

• 36:51Speaker 01

  You know, you know, when you're a young, young sort of chef and you open up a restaurant, you have all this vim and vigor and you want to show this. And it's like, now that I'm almost like 60 years old, like, you know, I don't want to not like anyone. I like forgive everyone for everything. I just want to like make everyone happy. I don't want to have any more fights. I don't yell. I don't do, I'm just like, whatever. Like, let's, let's just, let's just hug it out. So I don't have the energy anymore to like not like someone or hate or just all that stuff. It's just not worth it. Yeah.

• 37:28Adrienne Cheatham?

  It takes too much.

• 37:29Joe Flamm?

  Well, Chef, uh, can't appreciate your time, bro. This was awesome.

• 37:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes. Thank you so much, Chef, for joining us. We really appreciate your time and talking with you. You are an absolute legend. Thank you.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Thank you so much. I appreciate you guys. Thanks.

• 37:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's it for this episode of The Chef's Cut. Head to the comments to tell us where you would send a visitor to eat in Philly. And don't forget to subscribe on YouTube and follow us on IG. For Joe Flamm, I'm Adrian Cheatham, and this has been The Chef's Cut. Life beyond the past.