‘I Love LA’ Feels Like a Textbook HBO Comedy. Plus, ‘The Lowdown’ Finale.

Chris and Andy talk about the premiere of Rachel Sennott’s HBO series, ‘I Love LA,’ and what the comedy gets right about living in Los Angeles (8:02). Then they discuss the finale of ‘The Lowdown,’ the satisfying conclusion of its central mystery, and their desire for more seasons (25:13). Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of The Watch and so much more! Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Video Producer: Jon Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chris Ryan?

  This episode is brought to you by NASS Energy. Every ounce of dirt, sweat and gears, every checkered flag and trophy raised, every lap, every race, every hard fought place. They're all jammed inside every can of NASS Energy. High performance energy for burning the midnight oil in the garage and pedal to the metal human horsepower for the streets. Go ahead, crack open a can of NASS Energy and get after it.

• 0:23Speaker 01

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• 0:53Speaker 02

  I need support staff to clear the room. Stand up and walk now.

• 0:59Chris Ryan?

  Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at theringer.com and joining me in the studio in London, it's Andy Greenwald.

• 1:09Andy Greenwald?

  I feel like you're joining me in London.

• 1:12Chris Ryan?

  But not in the studio. It's like, you know, this is, this is new turf for you. What's going on? We're here at Spotify in London. We are in London. The Watch, transatlantic.

• 1:20Andy Greenwald?

  This is a tradition unlike any other where you and I fly internationally and do a podcast the morning after a wave election.

• 1:28Chris Ryan?

  I detect a smile on your face.

• 1:30Andy Greenwald?

  Listen, this is a lot more comfortable than it was literally this day a year ago.

• 1:35Chris Ryan?

  I personally wanted an island of feral cats on Manhattan just to see what would happen, but I'll take a blue wave. Greenwald, it's great to see you. Not a lot of news today in terms of television world, but we've got two shows we're going to talk about today. I love LA, the new show from Rachel Senet and the Lowdown season finale. Hopefully season, I don't want it to be serious finale. I want more of that. Any London observations, just like cultural observations?

• 2:00Andy Greenwald?

  First of all, how are you feeling about these deep seats they have here in Spotify UK?

• 2:04Chris Ryan?

  I'm feeling very comfortable, both in the studio, but also in the city. I love this place so much. Last night, by the way, just as before I forget, I haven't mentioned in a long time. You can email us at [email protected].

• 2:15Andy Greenwald?

  Can they also email us at [email protected]?

• 2:18Chris Ryan?

  I actually don't think that works.

• 2:19Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, don't do that.

• 2:20Chris Ryan?

  They'll probably bounce back.

• 2:21Andy Greenwald?

  Don't do that.

• 2:21Chris Ryan?

  You can also follow us on Instagram at the watch pod underscore on Instagram and you can watch us on YouTube at the ringer dash TV channel, but also on Spotify where you're hopefully listening to us. And I've had a great time so far.

• 2:34Chris Ryan?

  It's oddly warm here. It's hard to dress, but last night I went to a really fun screening.

• 2:41Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 2:41Chris Ryan?

  Of an eighties cult, early like, you know, late seventies, early eighties cult movie called Night of the Juggler, uh, which is never been screened in London, probably, but is, it's just like an all time, like lost classic of the post French connection, post Dirty Harry wave of grimy fun city movies. And it's with James Brolin, Cliff Gorman, Cliff Gorman. And it was put on by Radiance, which is the DVD label that I'm obsessed with over here.

• 3:08Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 3:09Chris Ryan?

  The physical media label and transmission, which is like their sub labels. It was really cool.

• 3:13Andy Greenwald?

  Did they put this on for you? Cause they were like.

• 3:14Chris Ryan?

  No, it was happening anyway, but I was like, that is very convenient that I'm going

• 3:18Andy Greenwald?

  That really worked out for you.

• 3:18Chris Ryan?

  So that was really cool. So shout out to Paul and shout out to everybody at Radiance. That was awesome to see that's coming out, I believe in December, so people can check it out.

• 3:26Andy Greenwald?

  I feel like my time has been a little more genteel.

• 3:28Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 3:28Andy Greenwald?

  A lot of commuting.

• 3:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:31Andy Greenwald?

  I, you know, people say like the, the, uh, the coldest winter they've ever had is summer in San Francisco. I think the hottest summer I've ever had is November on the London Underground.

• 3:42Chris Ryan?

  Do you have AC where you're staying?

• 3:44Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, no, well, there's, no, it's, I've never stayed in this, I've been in this flat for a very long time now, and also last year. And it's perfectly nice. I've never been here when it's actually been warm.

• 3:56Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 3:56Andy Greenwald?

  And I have noted that the windows open maybe three quarters of an inch and there is no AC. And I do wonder what it would be like.

• 4:04Chris Ryan?

  When the, when the global warming hits.

• 4:07Andy Greenwald?

  I do feel like that's worrisome. My most English experience thus far, uh, this week was yesterday at work. We were, um, what's the word? Working.

• 4:17Chris Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 4:18Andy Greenwald?

  And, you know, just to keep the mood light, I was like, hail fellows. You know what? I think I'm ready for, I've been here for what? Four or five weeks now. And I'm ready to do Marmite. I'm ready.

• 4:30Chris Ryan?

  Really?

• 4:30Andy Greenwald?

  I'm ready to do Marmite. And I was like, honestly, I'm not that scared of it. Like I like a, like a yeasty taste, you know? I like a strong ferment. You know, I'm, you know, I'm a day one miso boy. So I was like, I, I think I can do this and. This was greeted positively, but it also brought work to a screeching halt. As our showrunner insisted that she be the one to prepare my first marmite toast.

• 4:56Chris Ryan?

  Does it go on butter?

• 4:57Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, and then there was a little bit of a debate. And her assistant has a different strategy. Her strategy is also to toast bread and apply butter, but then to empty most of the marmite container onto it.

• 5:10Chris Ryan?

  Oh, wow.

• 5:10Andy Greenwald?

  So I was like, my friends, my colleagues, ladies.

• 5:14Chris Ryan?

  Door number one, door number two, yeah.

• 5:15Andy Greenwald?

  Let's do half and half.

• 5:16Chris Ryan?

  Oh, okay.

• 5:16Andy Greenwald?

  And so I was served two very different slices of marmite toast and a room full of extremely polite English people watched me eat them.

• 5:25Chris Ryan?

  Maybe that's why you think it's so hot today.

• 5:26Andy Greenwald?

  Because there's just yeast pouring out of my pores? It was, yeah.

• 5:32Chris Ryan?

  When do you think marmite's gonna hit the LA beauty conscious scene?

• 5:36Andy Greenwald?

  You don't want to know how I felt about it?

• 5:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, tell me. Which one do you prefer?

• 5:38Andy Greenwald?

  They're both pretty good.

• 5:39Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 5:40Andy Greenwald?

  No, I mean, I felt like.

• 5:41Chris Ryan?

  I've never tasted it.

• 5:42Andy Greenwald?

  Really?

• 5:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 5:43Andy Greenwald?

  You don't think it's in the bloodline through your dad, like there's some?

• 5:45Chris Ryan?

  I don't think he liked it. He was like, kind of sadly like Americanized by the end, especially in his tastes.

• 5:52Andy Greenwald?

  Oh.

• 5:53Chris Ryan?

  We certainly like Bud Light, so.

• 5:55Andy Greenwald?

  That is different. Yeah, I was like, what else do we do here on this toast? Like, this is good. What else can we do? And they're like, cheese, cheese. And I was like, oh, okay. Anything else? And they were like, absolutely not.

• 6:04Chris Ryan?

  Oh.

• 6:05Andy Greenwald?

  100% no. But they're very excited about Nigella Lawson's marmite pasta recipe.

• 6:10Chris Ryan?

  I was gonna ask you if you had any British cultural recommendations, but I bet like you're.

• 6:13Andy Greenwald?

  Marmite pasta.

• 6:14Chris Ryan?

  There you go.

• 6:15Andy Greenwald?

  That's pretty much it.

• 6:16Chris Ryan?

  I've been using the BBC, the fact that I am in England and the fact that I, so you can watch BBC a little bit more. So I checked out Film Club, which is Amy Lou Wood's show.

• 6:25Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, cool.

• 6:26Chris Ryan?

  Which features a pre-fame Owen Cooper from adolescence in a role.

• 6:31Andy Greenwald?

  Oh.

• 6:31Chris Ryan?

  And Sarah Jones is in it. It's charming.

• 6:34Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, that's cool. I mostly just wait for the night a week when Canal Boat Diaries is on.

• 6:40Chris Ryan?

  Wait, what about your, your boy who goes to porno?

• 6:43Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, yeah. Okay, so my two, my two spirit animals here, and I imagine if anyone who worked here who is producing us today, these wonderful people, I hope they're not watching this, because I feel like they might.

• 6:52Chris Ryan?

  No, I think that it's important that they do.

• 6:53Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, so basically, I have, in my flat, I have, I guess, basic cable. And there's like one channel that just plays The Simpsons all the time. And there's one channel that just plays Master Chef Australia all the time. And there's six channels that play Strictly Come Dancing. The best channel is the one that plays Top of the Pops 98. And it's just Top of the Pops performances from 98. But the two shows in the heaviest rotation are the aforementioned Canal Boat Diaries, in which a guy goes on a skinny boat around London and he reaches a place where there's a lock and he can't get through. And he's like, oh, it's gonna be a bit of a bother, isn't it? And then he's like, and then it cuts because there's no cameraman. He's just drone shotting it and like selfieing. And then, and then he's like, luckily, the local locks volunteer has agreed to help me and is raising the lock. And there's just some guy in a hat going.

• 7:38Andy Greenwald?

  And then he goes on.

• 7:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:39Andy Greenwald?

  And then every so often, he stops at a market to buy incredibly spicy ingredients to make a curry, which I think he uses to just blow out his tiny boat.

• 7:48Andy Greenwald?

  Like, it's just that, that's, that's the real engine of the show. But the other thing is, and I feel like we should have an expert on this, is just, I've become very, very obsessed with the Michael Portillo phenomenon.

• 7:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:59Andy Greenwald?

  And he is a very, very fancy Dan, older man now, wearing bright colors who travels the world, often Portugal, often different parts of Portugal. And is always just going up.

• 8:12Chris Ryan?

  He probably lives there for tax purposes.

• 8:13Andy Greenwald?

  But he's just always going up to dudes named like Rodrigo, who live in wheat mills and have like birthed all of their children there. And he's just like, what do you do, Rodrigo? And it's Rodrigo just stares at him.

• 8:26Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, can I have a whack at that? And I was watching it and I was like, oh, this guy's awesome. This guy just likes to travel. And then I Googled him and he's just like a deeply conservative former MP.

• 8:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 8:36Andy Greenwald?

  Who is, well, I'm not gonna, you know what, libel laws are different here.

• 8:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 8:42Andy Greenwald?

  But I was, his personal life section of his Wikipedia surprised me.

• 8:45Chris Ryan?

  Is it wikipedia.co.uk or dot com? Because it can, it can be different sometimes.

• 8:50Andy Greenwald?

  That's a great point. So, anyway, I think I'm going a bit native.

• 8:53Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 8:53Andy Greenwald?

  Or insane.

• 8:55Chris Ryan?

  Well, then let's talk about your homeland.

• 8:57Andy Greenwald?

  Sure.

• 8:57Chris Ryan?

  Not your original homeland, but your adopted one, the Los Angeles, the great, the great Southland. Rachel Senate has come along and made.

• 9:07Chris Ryan?

  Well, it's definitely a show of its moment. It's a show probably of like the last couple of years. I think TV always has that issue where what you're writing about and in sort of, this is cutting edge vocabulary, slang,

• 9:21Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 9:22Chris Ryan?

  trends, what have you, in 2023 may not be

• 9:26Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 9:26Chris Ryan?

  what happens in 2025. But I feel like she did a pretty good job with this. I Love L.A. is, I saw Alison Herman in Variety compared this, I thought, smartly to how to make it an America and entourage more than a sitcom.

• 9:41Andy Greenwald?

  Oh.

• 9:42Chris Ryan?

  And that actually, I was like, oh, okay. Like, I kind of like, I'd watched some episodes already, and I watched this, we're gonna talk about this premiere that just happened on Sunday. But I think initially, I was just like, but is it, is this funny enough? You know, right?

• 9:56Andy Greenwald?

  Are you Michael Portillo?

• 9:58Chris Ryan?

  Pardon me, Rachel.

• 10:01Chris Ryan?

  Go whack at that. Is that mutton? Yeah.

• 10:03Andy Greenwald?

  Delicious.

• 10:05Chris Ryan?

  Rachel Senate, who was obviously, she was one of the stars of Shiva Baby.

• 10:08Andy Greenwald?

  Will you explain Rachel Senate to me? Because I have remained relatively clean.

• 10:11Chris Ryan?

  I think she emerged somewhat out of Vine and out of like, internet fame, doing short videos

• 10:17Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 10:18Chris Ryan?

  on her social media. And very quickly, kind of, took the A24.

• 10:24Andy Greenwald?

  Up Down?

• 10:25Chris Ryan?

  If you know what I'm saying?

• 10:25Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 10:26Chris Ryan?

  She very quickly became something of a sensation within indie film world.

• 10:30Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 10:30Chris Ryan?

  By doing Shiva Baby, and Bodies Bodies Bodies, and Bottoms.

• 10:34Andy Greenwald?

  Right. And there's kind of, there's kind of like a clique of, like, some of the people who are part of this group of young creatives, like Mahala, who we love, and industry seems to be part of this world to a degree, like Chase Sweetwonders, who's amazing on Studio, is, am I, I'm not just, I'm not just grouping people together because they're women under 30.

• 10:51Chris Ryan?

  No, I don't know. I mean, like, I

• 10:54Andy Greenwald?

  I O Debray, yeah.

• 10:56Chris Ryan?

  Exactly. So, this show stars Senate, it was created by Senate. For a long time, it was called Untitled Rachel Senate Project, which, up until like, fairly recently, it was called that. And it's essentially about a New Yorker who comes to Los Angeles to make it as a talent manager, and make it in the entertainment industry broadly. I think it's actually At least in terms of it anthropologically, like interesting to view as why people come to Los Angeles over the decades.

• 11:25Andy Greenwald?

  Why they come now.

• 11:25Chris Ryan?

  And why they come now.

• 11:28Chris Ryan?

  She's moved to New York. She has a couple of friends. Most notably, I think, is English teachers, Jordan Firstman, who is plays Charlie in the show.

• 11:38Chris Ryan?

  And Forest Whitaker's daughter is also.

• 11:41Andy Greenwald?

  Oh.

• 11:42Chris Ryan?

  I believe Leah Whitaker is.

• 11:44Andy Greenwald?

  True Whitaker?

• 11:45Chris Ryan?

  True Whitaker, sorry. Is is also in her friend group in the series and she has a boyfriend played by Josh Hutcherson, who has a normal type job as a teacher.

• 11:55Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 11:55Chris Ryan?

  But everybody else is kind of broadly working in and around and on the outskirts of what stands in for the entertainment industry now, which used to be TV and movies, but now, you know, encompassing social media and brand deals for, you know, and working and influencing and obviously all this other stuff.

• 12:12Andy Greenwald?

  Does it include podcasting?

• 12:13Chris Ryan?

  There is a sort of a little bit of like a tongue in cheek podcast joke in this first episode as the characters walk the Silver Lake Roswell.

• 12:20Andy Greenwald?

  It's what we deserve.

• 12:22Chris Ryan?

  So the first episode is really, really decent pilot setup, which is it's her birthday. It's Maya, the Rachel Sennett character. It's her birthday weekend. She's trying to get a promotion from Leighton Meester. Leighton Meester or Leighton? Okay, Leighton Meester.

• 12:34Andy Greenwald?

  Who is phenomenal as kind of a generation above.

• 12:39Chris Ryan?

  Because she's also in Nobody Wants This right here.

• 12:41Andy Greenwald?

  Which is renewed. Congratulations to our buddy, Tim Simons.

• 12:44Chris Ryan?

  Congratulations to Hitmaker. Yet another one.

• 12:46Andy Greenwald?

  Another one, another banger. I think Leighton Meester is so good on the show as Maya's boss, who is.

• 12:52Chris Ryan?

  I swear to God, I went through like a two or three year period where people were like, it's Leighton, actually.

• 12:56Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, maybe it is.

• 12:56Chris Ryan?

  I don't, I don't think it is.

• 12:58Andy Greenwald?

  You know what? Let's just focus on that.

• 13:00Chris Ryan?

  Anyway, she runs, what was, what's her job? What is, what is?

• 13:04Andy Greenwald?

  She's an assistant at a management company.

• 13:06Chris Ryan?

  But managing what?

• 13:08Andy Greenwald?

  I don't know, podcasters? I'm, I'm open.

• 13:11Chris Ryan?

  Like, I think influencers, or I think brands.

• 13:14Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 13:15Chris Ryan?

  But I can't tell.

• 13:16Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 13:16Chris Ryan?

  Or maybe I missed that line in the dialogue. Uh, anyway, she works there. She's hoping for a promotion that doesn't come. She's bummed out and who comes into her life?

• 13:24Andy Greenwald?

  Uh oh.

• 13:25Chris Ryan?

  But her past, uh, in the form of Tallulah. Uh, a big influencer played by Odessa Azayon. You might remember from Better Things.

• 13:34Andy Greenwald?

  She's Pamela Dlin's daughter.

• 13:35Chris Ryan?

  Yes, uh, and she kinda is like this hurricane comes into her life. They've had a falling out in the past. Uh, Rachel said it's character Maya tried to block her on social media. Stuff like that. There's a, a kind of crazy night out.

• 13:50Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 13:50Chris Ryan?

  And then, uh, a birthday dinner. We get to the end of it and we, we, we find that they've kind of made amends. And now they're going to take on LA together.

• 13:58Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 13:59Chris Ryan?

  Uh, manager and client once again to conquer the city. So what did you broadly think of this first episode?

• 14:05Andy Greenwald?

  I enjoyed it. I really did. And I, we should also shout out that there's a, a really strong team behind the scenes.

• 14:10Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 14:11Andy Greenwald?

  Lorraine Scifaria, who-

• 14:13Chris Ryan?

  Only one person ever makes television. You should know that by now.

• 14:16Andy Greenwald?

  You? Only one person makes toast. Lorraine Scifaria, who's a great director, who worked on Succession most recently and is now like, has reached like the, the trusted HBO club. She's on the show, I think as the directing producer, uh, or producing director, I mean. Um, old buddy Max Silvestri, who's a great comedian, who just launched his own podcast with, um, Gabe Liebman and Jenny Slate. He's an EP on the show, Emma Berry. And, you know, I think what you want in a show that purports to offer a slice of a very specific life is you want confidence. And the pilot hits you with confidence. It begins with earthquake sex, which is a pretty good starting point for what the show is going to be and gets you right in the mood.

• 14:52Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 14:52Andy Greenwald?

  Apparently Maya in the mood as well.

• 14:56Andy Greenwald?

  I have to say that my first- Here are the two planks of my affection for the show thus far. I'm curious if you had a similar reaction. One plank is I like shows about groups of friends in situations. There was a show I remember from the 90s that had a similar kind of setup. I think it was called Friends.

• 15:15Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 15:17Andy Greenwald?

  That is a reliable chestnut and it feels good. And once this group of people got to gets together on camera, I think in the pilot, it's as you said, it's at the Silver Lake Reservoir. I was just enjoying the banter because these people knew each, they know each other. The performers clearly are comfortable with each other and the work was done to give them each a distinctive voice. Jordan Firstman, Charlie's, this character of Charlie does not seem on first blush to be that different from the character. He wonderfully plays an English teacher.

• 15:43Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 15:44Andy Greenwald?

  But I love that character and I'm happy to see him. So I was comfortable already. The other thing that I really did appreciate, and maybe this is some degree of homesickness, is it understands something. I feel is profound about Los Angeles, or maybe the observation isn't profound, but the truth is profound, which is that nothing really works there. It's kind of not a functioning place.

• 16:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it's a lot of lines. It's a lot of humiliation. Yeah.

• 16:10Andy Greenwald?

  There is a.

• 16:12Chris Ryan?

  Waiting for bagels.

• 16:13Andy Greenwald?

  Like.

• 16:14Chris Ryan?

  Waiting to get into tennants of the trees.

• 16:15Andy Greenwald?

  Exactly. Like we, um, there's a moment in the pilot when Salula is like, it's your birthday. Let's go to the beach. And they're immediately all like, oh my God, that would be such a whole thing.

• 16:25Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 16:25Andy Greenwald?

  And that is true. The, the driving, the lines that just, is it really worth it? If I could just stay home is baked into the place.

• 16:33Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 16:33Andy Greenwald?

  And there is also something very specific about visitors or new transplants that is very sweet because I remember being this person. Like all the years when, when Grantland was going and I still lived in New York and I would come out and visit people. I just, I was just driving Santa Monica, like straight to the ocean and back just for the hell of it. I was like, why would I not?

• 16:53Chris Ryan?

  Cause you have the energy.

• 16:54Andy Greenwald?

  And the novelty of driving. And I couldn't understand why no one wanted to leave a 10 minute radius. And that went away so fast. That went away so fast. So.

• 17:03Chris Ryan?

  I was having a conversation with someone last night. Uh, who was talking about how it's, you know, the Los Angeles like kind of effusive positivity is, throws off, you know, if you're from the East Coast or if you're from, from Europe, you might be a little bit. Blinkered by like how positive everybody is in there like, you know, even if you're just going into a store and it's like, you just have a great day. Okay.

• 17:24Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 17:25Chris Ryan?

  And I was like, well, lucky, luckily you can go days without speaking to anyone in Los Angeles because you're just always in your car.

• 17:31Andy Greenwald?

  A hundred million percent. Uh, and just like the inflexibility of things, you know, and, and the fact that like in the pilot. Charlie, Charlie has expended his daily allotment of energy waiting in line for.

• 17:43Chris Ryan?

  Courage Bagels.

• 17:44Andy Greenwald?

  Muff's overrated bagels, you know, come on.

• 17:46Chris Ryan?

  Hey, I, I, I don't stand in that line. Not that I cut the line. I just generally speaking, I go to Morris. Yeah.

• 17:53Andy Greenwald?

  It's a, yeah, because Morris are. Bagels.

• 17:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 17:56Andy Greenwald?

  Courage is delicious bread. That is nice. It's nice for a treat when you go there.

• 18:00Chris Ryan?

  I can always count on you.

• 18:01Andy Greenwald?

  And because Courage is having a very like, it's very media moment because it's all over. Nobody wants this too. And I think Courage Bagels is a fine destination and.

• 18:12Chris Ryan?

  Everybody should have it at least once.

• 18:14Andy Greenwald?

  Sure. But what I look for. If I may, in a bagel is both a delicious flavor, but also usability, freezeability.

• 18:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 18:23Andy Greenwald?

  Courage Bagels.

• 18:23Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah. You like to.

• 18:24Andy Greenwald?

  I like to have some. And, uh, if you want a chefy bagel that freezes well, mustard's opened up in Culver City. Which feels like 8,000 miles away from where we are right now.

• 18:34Chris Ryan?

  Culver City.

• 18:35Andy Greenwald?

  Well, they were.

• 18:35Chris Ryan?

  There better be like a pile of drugs at the end of that. There's no way I'm doing that.

• 18:40Andy Greenwald?

  I'm just letting people know. You know what I'm letting know? The Tallulas who listen to our podcast who are willing to take influencer photos. But yeah, just like that these, that these little supposedly compostable styrofoam containers are somehow like status symbols. And you've checked a box and then that's your day. I really, I really, really like that. And of course, you know, and surprisingly, because the show is made by young people who live there, like. There is just a, uh, you could play bingo with locations that, that track. I mean, there's, there's. Din Tai Fung reference. I think Capri Club shows up in the second episode. This is like a day to day life.

• 19:16Chris Ryan?

  Somebody is listening to us in St. Louis and just be like, I hope you guys go fucking fall into the Thames.

• 19:21Andy Greenwald?

  For what it's worth, there's a Din Tai Fung here in London.

• 19:23Chris Ryan?

  There is. It's international change.

• 19:24Andy Greenwald?

  And an egg slot and Five Guys and everything's great. No, but just a city with a day to day life set to the rhythm of people shaking salads at their desks.

• 19:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I think honestly, life's better when there's an HBO show like this.

• 19:37Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 19:37Chris Ryan?

  I don't mean to make things too complicated. It's just, I've always enjoyed a 30 minute comedy slice of life, like you said, about a group of friends somewhere.

• 19:49Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 19:49Chris Ryan?

  And I will watch every episode of this.

• 19:52Andy Greenwald?

  I laughed.

• 19:52Chris Ryan?

  You know, like, yeah, for sure.

• 19:53Andy Greenwald?

  I'm not going to spoil anything, but one, one takeaway from the second episode that would just be a little note for me that I'm curious about is that the end of the second episode introduces some stakes, basically, in a way that I was like, this show is so confident.

• 20:08Chris Ryan?

  It hasn't aired yet, right?

• 20:09Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 20:09Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 20:09Andy Greenwald?

  But it, but the show is so confident in its situation that it doesn't really need this, particularly because the stakes are to do with influencer drama. Which I think is right down there with like Dick Cheney's obituary in terms of things that I'm interested in engaging with right now.

• 20:25Chris Ryan?

  I've been loving some Dick Cheney obits.

• 20:28Andy Greenwald?

  Have you?

• 20:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 20:28Andy Greenwald?

  You know what I respect about the guy?

• 20:30Chris Ryan?

  Because everybody, first of all, you can tell some of them were written like nine years ago.

• 20:34Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, yeah.

• 20:35Chris Ryan?

  So there's like, uh, what the master of the Senate kind of like stuff. And then it's just like, some guy had to come in and do like, oh, a later period rewrite as like.

• 20:43Andy Greenwald?

  This guy loves democracy.

• 20:45Chris Ryan?

  History changed and he was just like, huh. So a late breaking turn towards the Democratic Party, but war crimes.

• 20:51Andy Greenwald?

  One of the things that I really respect about him is that, you know, as we learned from both history and living through it and the film Vice.

• 20:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 20:59Andy Greenwald?

  This man had many opportunities to check out over the last 40 years. Five heart attacks, got a respected heart transplant. But what he couldn't live to see is a democratic socialist elected mayor of New York. He's just like Sam Elliott at the end of, uh.

• 21:11Chris Ryan?

  1883.

• 21:12Andy Greenwald?

  1883, just like, I, I've seen enough. I respect it. Um.

• 21:18Andy Greenwald?

  So.

• 21:19Chris Ryan?

  Sam Elliott definitely moved out of New York City.

• 21:21Andy Greenwald?

  You think him and Debra Messing were like, this is.

• 21:24Chris Ryan?

  We're leaving.

• 21:24Andy Greenwald?

  We're done. The other thing that I, tell me how you feel about this. I don't know if this makes me

• 21:31Andy Greenwald?

  old or in the correct demographic, but the way, the way that Maya, Rachel Sennett's character and Tallulah talk to each other. I was like, why are they talking like that? What's familiar to me about that? And then I remember that I recently powered through the back half of Platonic season two, a show that I just genuinely love, loved the show.

• 21:52Chris Ryan?

  I do too.

• 21:52Andy Greenwald?

  I really hope they make more of it and make it forever.

• 21:55Chris Ryan?

  I think it's on Apple, so they will.

• 21:57Andy Greenwald?

  They probably will. They probably don't even know they've greenlit it for five seasons. Late in the season of Platonic, the great Aidy Bryant shows up playing a character named Cabo Carey.

• 22:06Chris Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 22:06Andy Greenwald?

  And Cabo Carey talks to Rose Byrne's character, the way these young people talk to each other, but it's a bit. You know, she's just like, what's up bitch? Hey mama, we're getting espresso teenies. And I, I can't, like, I guess that version of it, where Aidy Bryant, who is more our peer, is making fun of it, speaks to me. So it was a little bracing to be around people who are actually just speaking this way.

• 22:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I think I've, I've, I've more or less internalized it. You know what I mean? It doesn't sound like a foreign language so much to me anymore. I don't.

• 22:37Andy Greenwald?

  Well, first of all, you keep it 100, always, like in these streets, 10 under the trees every weekend.

• 22:43Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 22:44Andy Greenwald?

  That's you.

• 22:45Chris Ryan?

  I'm always at the reservoir.

• 22:46Andy Greenwald?

  That's your east side of Los Angeles.

• 22:48Chris Ryan?

  Posted up.

• 22:50Andy Greenwald?

  We've talked about this before, like, we are not in any, any way celebrities in the world.

• 22:55Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 22:56Andy Greenwald?

  Except near Sunset Junction, where you are the fucking.

• 23:00Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 23:00Andy Greenwald?

  You are, you are the big Lebowski.

• 23:01Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 23:02Andy Greenwald?

  You are the king. The amount of times that you are recognized or hailed as you cross the street, whatever, is, is considerable and worthy, you know, deserving.

• 23:11Chris Ryan?

  Appreciate, yeah, anyone wants to say hi.

• 23:13Andy Greenwald?

  So do you think if you walked past on the reservoir, this group of people, would any of them?

• 23:20Chris Ryan?

  They've never heard a podcast. Definitely not.

• 23:23Andy Greenwald?

  But what, isn't Kaya putting us on TikTok now? Aren't we like, we're going viral, baby?

• 23:28Chris Ryan?

  Uh, I think within the Alice in Oliver fan community, we do, but not really beyond that. I don't think we're permeating.

• 23:34Andy Greenwald?

  You are the Alice in Oliver fan community.

• 23:36Chris Ryan?

  Sub tiers of Charlie XCX pop, like hyperpop fame.

• 23:40Andy Greenwald?

  Should we do the, uh, the four non blondes meme? Just the two of us?

• 23:45Chris Ryan?

  What's that?

• 23:46Andy Greenwald?

  See? Like we're

• 23:48Chris Ryan?

  I haven't seen that.

• 23:49Andy Greenwald?

  We're doing the, the, no?

• 23:51Chris Ryan?

  What is the four nine bonds mean?

• 23:52Andy Greenwald?

  Well, there's like the mashup of, of, you know, uh, what's up?

• 23:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 23:57Andy Greenwald?

  And the, the, the rap verse, and it's like the two people back to back and the camera spins and one's lip syncing Linda Perry part.

• 24:04Chris Ryan?

  I've never seen this. It's always really hard when you like, if you're describing a meme, you're, somebody's just like, what are you saying?

• 24:10Andy Greenwald?

  You seem interested though. Let me describe a couple more memes for you. I think, I think it's gonna be good for us.

• 24:15Chris Ryan?

  Uh, all right. Um,

• 24:16Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, no memes.

• 24:17Chris Ryan?

  We're keeping this a little bit compressed today. We're both warm, warm, warm thumbs up from Siskel and the Siskel here about, uh,

• 24:25Andy Greenwald?

  I, I think that you summed it up very well, that HBO should have shows like this.

• 24:30Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 24:30Andy Greenwald?

  And they're good at cultivating shows like this.

• 24:32Chris Ryan?

  It's funny, it almost anecdotally, without looking at the data, feels like they crank out more prestige mysteries than what is the group of friends hanging out comedy that we have on?

• 24:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 24:44Chris Ryan?

  I suppose you could say like gemstones and the Dana McBride universe has sort of taken that,

• 24:48Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 24:49Chris Ryan?

  that lane for a little while. But my, I still maintain that the backbone of this show is when we used to have Game of Thrones and Veep and Girls on the same night.

• 24:58Andy Greenwald?

  Sure.

• 24:58Chris Ryan?

  And, uh, I would like to get back to that.

• 25:00Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, listen, Abigail Spanberger is leading, leading the charge, return to normalcy.

• 25:06Chris Ryan?

  I had, I wondered who was gonna make a Spanberger reference first. It would, it would be really funny.

• 25:12Andy Greenwald?

  It was always gonna be me.

• 25:13Chris Ryan?

  But I was, I was kind of thinking like, what if we just made this day all about Spanburgers? Like no, no mention of

• 25:19Andy Greenwald?

  One of my favorite things to wake up to, it is, you know, last year was a sobering instance in this, but it is pretty good to just wake up to stuff having happened.

• 25:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 25:28Andy Greenwald?

  Two years in a row, Red October ends abruptly and I'm like, I guess I gotta go get coffee. Like it's, it's, it's fine.

• 25:33Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 25:33Andy Greenwald?

  Right? And one of the nice and like reassuring things that the world marches onward was waking up to like the first headline of being like, the Democrats have won every major race in America, including like the Board of Utility Directors in Georgia. And then the

• 25:48Chris Ryan?

  Didn't you like that some Georgia utility board goes straight socialist?

• 25:52Andy Greenwald?

  And then, then below that it says news analysis. For Democrats, one positive flicker in a never ending nightmare of suffering with questions to come.

• 26:00Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 26:00Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you, gray lady. Thank you for really setting my expectations this morning.

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• 27:53Chris Ryan?

  I want to make sure we have time to talk about the lowdown. I want to leave with love here.

• 27:58Andy Greenwald?

  Oh.

• 27:58Chris Ryan?

  Cause I think that there was a little bit with the Walter Mosley penultimate episode last week. I was like, oh, this felt like a little choppy and like, you know, you'd pointed out it was a little shorter than most of the other runtimes and that penultimate episodes can either, there's really like a wide variance of their success rate because it can either be like the thing that everybody remembers, or it can be something that's basically a bridge to the finale. Um, this finale was deeply emotionally satisfying.

• 28:27Andy Greenwald?

  Absolutely.

• 28:28Chris Ryan?

  And I thought quite beautifully acted and really gave several characters a chance to round out and be complete in this like last inning. And I, I especially wanted to shout out your boy, Kyle McLaughlin.

• 28:43Andy Greenwald?

  He was so good in this episode.

• 28:45Chris Ryan?

  Um, who I think in most shows would either be a villain or a useful idiot.

• 28:51Andy Greenwald?

  Yep.

• 28:52Chris Ryan?

  And instead is something different, not a hero, but was, got to be every part of who that character was.

• 28:59Andy Greenwald?

  He was the 15th paragraph in the Dick Cheney obituary.

• 29:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I don't know if I understand that.

• 29:05Andy Greenwald?

  A surprising turn, a surprising turn late, late in life.

• 29:07Chris Ryan?

  Spanberger.

• 29:08Andy Greenwald?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:08Chris Ryan?

  The scenes that he has with Keith David, with Marty, the scenes that he has, especially when he has to read and be read, um, Lee's article about his brother and the last few scenes, um, of him handling Tom McCarthy, giving a speech, those things. You just got to see the totality of a person rather than just an evil villain. There's a world, there's a version of this show that's still excellent where there are just half a dozen characters who are just straight up bad and, and.

• 29:39Andy Greenwald?

  And as bad as, as bad as bad can be.

• 29:41Chris Ryan?

  Yes. And I, I thought it was interesting to watch Sterling Hardjo and his team make a show where even characters like Tracy Letts's Frank character.

• 29:51Chris Ryan?

  Is still pleading his sort of like, I didn't mean to kill this guy, you know, throughout.

• 29:55Andy Greenwald?

  There's a humanity. They were rattled by events or they were caught up in events. They were swept up in opportunity or ambition.

• 30:01Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 30:02Andy Greenwald?

  And, and can't get past their own morality at the end, which was really compelling.

• 30:06Chris Ryan?

  What did you think of the finale?

• 30:07Andy Greenwald?

  I think that you're right to, to, to frame it that way. I thought Kyle, who, you know, I like, I like very much personally, but just like on camera so much as well, like. I've said this throughout the course of the season, but one of the great things that, uh, auteurs in TV can do is just see into actors and see the best versions of them. See what they've been itching to do, see the muscles that haven't been stretched in a while and give them a chance. So Keith David being drunk on bovine birthing pills was not something I had on my bingo card, but he seemed to enjoy the hell out of it. Kyle McLaughlin in that scene, not being asked to play the extremes that often he, I mean, I think he likes doing.

• 30:50Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 30:51Andy Greenwald?

  Whether it's on, you know, podcasts, TikTok videos, or Lynchier stuff, or Showgirls or whatever, like playing just kind of, uh, a, a complicated guy, I thought was really, really strong. Um, and to your point about like the things that ultimately I love in television shows are finely drawn, deeply specific, deeply emotional portraits of community. And the business of the show returning to the street that the bookstore is on and the interactions between everyone. The season building towards this wedding where Lee basically, that gives his blessing, but.

• 31:30Chris Ryan?

  Let's go of his past a little bit.

• 31:31Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. And is it peace with who his daughter is? The scene when Frances reads, I don't know if it's like a poetry slam or what the context for that was, but like, as a hashtag girl dad, like that was, that's gnarly and affecting. And I was glad there was space for it in the show. So I'm in the tank. I love it. I think, um, in terms of resolving a mystery, it was a little bit woollier than.

• 31:56Chris Ryan?

  I think it resembled a lot of my favorite mystery novels.

• 31:59Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. Where it's just like, oh, it's over now.

• 32:00Chris Ryan?

  Uh, yeah, or, um, there's a data dump at a certain point.

• 32:06Andy Greenwald?

  It sure was, yeah.

• 32:06Chris Ryan?

  And, you know, Lee figures everything out. A little bit of it happening off screen, or a little bit of the like, kind of connective tissue of it, I think is a little obscured from the viewer, but you can see that Lee would do the work as he puts together this final article for Heartland Press. But, yeah, I mean, like, in a James Alwar novel, often, the protagonist will come across the lone witness who's been living in a cabin somewhere in Big Bear, and the guy's like, "Here's how the Black Dahlia murder happened," you know, or whatever. You must have missed that book. Yeah, I feel like in Big Nowhere, that happens, or White Jazz. And I thought this book, or this show, kind of mirrored that.

• 32:51Chris Ryan?

  So just briefly, I'll just kind of touch on some of the sort of plot. It ties a knot on the whole land grab conspiracy plot that took over the last several episodes. Interesting how this show was maybe two or three different mysteries that kind of led into one another. So I think in the beginning, it's the skinheads, and it's Dale's death, and what Donald might have had to do with it, and then the sort of ethno-nationalist religious and evangelical group kind of emerges, and the 46, which is sort of Frank and Tripp's power broker group, and you sort of start to get like a deeper and deeper conspiracy. And Sterling really expertly, I thought, like, at various points where you think, okay,

• 33:36Chris Ryan?

  this guy Alan is gonna be the villain, and he gets killed. And then you're like, okay, we're going along, and now I think this guy, Tracy Letts, is gonna be the villain. But it's not really him, it's this larger, like, ex-con religious group, who are probably like the bigger bad. So I thought that was all neat. Obviously, they bring Graham Greene in for, I believe, his last performance, and he's quite wonderful, and plays a pivotal character in the show. And by the end of it, you know, pretty much everybody is placed...

• 34:07Chris Ryan?

  Not at rest, you know, but I think what would be a satisfying conclusion if they don't do more low down.

• 34:12Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I think, um, I think the show was at its weakest, or this episode was at its weakest during the long scene. When Lee and Betty Jo like talk about what they've done and what they haven't done.

• 34:24Chris Ryan?

  I liked that. You didn't like that?

• 34:25Andy Greenwald?

  I like the actors, but it was a very, very long scene of exposition and, you know, sort of, um, position setting about where they were and how they felt about each other and who was at fault here.

• 34:39Andy Greenwald?

  I think one of the things that I like about Sterling as a filmmaker and as an artist, and this was true in Reservation Dogs as well, is that he's a big fucking softie, and I mean that as a compliment. Like, this is a show about, that believes deeply in the power of of change, of being seen, being known even after your passing. It believes in evolution. Uh, not in a Darwinist sense, but like in terms of who you are and what you stand for. Kyle McLaughlin's character being still a Republican candidate for governor, who frankly goes pretty woke in a cool way. And it's like, I don't need this group. I just need to build a different base for my candidacy and have a different framing for my love of this place.

• 35:22Andy Greenwald?

  Which, to, again, to the show's credit and to Sterling's credit, it's not, he's, he lives there. So he understands that there are people who have different competing visions of why they love the place that they live.

• 35:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 35:35Andy Greenwald?

  And I, I appreciated that complexity and I, and I appreciated the turn towards grace throughout. I think, uh, I, it is very, very hard to make journalism dramatically compelling. So the shots of him drinking coffee and writing an article that was going to change stuff is, they, you know, I think was the best it could be.

• 36:01Chris Ryan?

  But better than, than a, a fake, you know, because the penultimate episode ends with Lee brandishing a gun.

• 36:07Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, this isn't right.

• 36:08Chris Ryan?

  At a church full of people to try and citizens arrest Frank.

• 36:11Andy Greenwald?

  His pen is mightier.

• 36:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and it's nice that like they, they don't need to have this end in a hail of bullets.

• 36:16Andy Greenwald?

  No, and, and it's also nice, certainly for like our perspective on the world that like. Truth, truth story can win out.

• 36:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 36:24Andy Greenwald?

  You know, um, I, we don't know anything about the future of the show, right? But like, I loved it and I loved it both for the story that it told and where it went. But also just as a really exciting canvas for this artist and his very impressive group of friends, colleagues and collaborators to play.

• 36:45Chris Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 36:46Andy Greenwald?

  And I think a second season, should we get one, could be potentially incredibly exciting.

• 36:52Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I, I mean, I think there's a lot to be said that like, this was the ilmatic and it was written is coming next because to use an, a NOS analogy, I don't know, you kind of didn't really note, seem to notice what I was saying. Um.

• 37:07Andy Greenwald?

  No, I'm, I'm just curious where you're going next.

• 37:09Chris Ryan?

  You pump, you throw everything you've got into the first season.

• 37:12Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 37:12Chris Ryan?

  And I, I think that there is an element of like Sterling wanted to say everything he could about being a dad and everything he could about Tulsa and every, every kind of optimistic dream he has about a better Tulsa.

• 37:25Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 37:25Chris Ryan?

  And like even that block that he built up with Sweet Emily's and the record store and the bookstore is like the dream block. But the next season could be like, someone hire, hires Lee to find their missing wife and like, it's just like kind of a lean, mean.

• 37:40Andy Greenwald?

  Noir.

• 37:41Chris Ryan?

  Noir or Lee go on the road and go somewhere else.

• 37:44Andy Greenwald?

  Do you, in this version of it, is season three Uchiwali?

• 37:48Chris Ryan?

  I guess so, yeah.

• 37:49Andy Greenwald?

  I mean.

• 37:51Chris Ryan?

  Is that I am?

• 37:52Andy Greenwald?

  I think it's later. This is the Bravehearts record.

• 37:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. That's right.

• 37:56Andy Greenwald?

  It gets, gets kind of dodgy after.

• 37:57Chris Ryan?

  But then lost tapes. So season five would be sick. Yeah. A throwback to season.

• 38:01Andy Greenwald?

  Eleven.

• 38:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 38:03Andy Greenwald?

  What a great show though.

• 38:04Chris Ryan?

  Just wanted, yeah, just wanted to say that it's very rare to see TV shows that take the time to have, um, plot lines, to give so much time to say, uh, something that we didn't even comment on after it happened, which was Marty's day long date with Odette played by Tisha Campbell.

• 38:22Andy Greenwald?

  Beautiful episode.

• 38:22Chris Ryan?

  And. All it ends with is Tisha Campbell's character saying, you don't really ask questions. Like, you don't seem that interested in me. You know, you really seem more fascinated by your boss and invested in your work. You seem like a nice guy, but like, we'll be having a second date. And I think it subtly changes Marty and sends him in this direction of where he's like, I am going to work with Lee and I am going to try and figure out what's going on here. But ultimately, like, that's like a bunch of real estate to put a TV show, to stake a TV in a TV show for a character who's not going to come back for a romantic.

• 38:58Andy Greenwald?

  But Dinklage episode was like that as well.

• 39:00Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, exactly. So to have these little short stories within the novel, I thought was was quite lovely. And I really hope they get to do more of it.

• 39:06Andy Greenwald?

  I have nothing to add to that. I completely agree.

• 39:09Chris Ryan?

  Let's wrap up there for this episode.

• 39:11Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 39:11Chris Ryan?

  We're going to be back in 48 hours, as far as you know, listener, because we're going to be back with a special episode talking about the first two episodes of Pluribus, which is the new show from Vince Gilligan on Apple TV. The first two episodes air, I believe, on Friday morning.

• 39:27Andy Greenwald?

  We have no way of knowing.

• 39:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 39:29Andy Greenwald?

  We do have a way of knowing. It will, the 7th, which is, which is Friday.

• 39:33Chris Ryan?

  And so you'll be able to listen to that Vince Gilligan episode as soon as you're done those first two episodes. He also joins me on the show to talk. I talked to him a couple of weeks ago and we're going to run that interview on Friday. So thank you for listening and we will be back in just a couple of days to chat about Pluribus.

• 39:50Andy Greenwald?

  Enjoy your canal boats, Marinski's.

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• 40:18Chris Ryan?

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• 40:24Chris Ryan?

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