ROLL ON is… ON! (+Chris Evans)

Welcome to ‘Roll On’—the semi-regular version of the podcast where we ramble on matters of interest across culture, sports, art, literature, politics, self-betterment, and more. My co-host is Mr. Adam Skolnick, an activist, veteran journalist, author of One Breath, and David Goggins’ Can’t Hurt Me and Never Finished co-author. Adam writes about adventure sports, environmental issues, and civil rights for outlets such as The New York Times, Outside, ESPN, BBC, and Men’s Health. Today we exchange updates on personal goings on, discuss listener questions, welcome UK radio legend Chris Evans to the table, and share the whys and hows of my new creative partnership with Swiss sportswear brand On. Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors: Timeline Nutrition: TimelineNutrition.com/RICHROLL On: On.com/richroll AG1: DrinkAG1.com/RICHROLL Indeed: Indeed.com/RICHROLL Plant Power Meal Planner: https://meals.richroll.com Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast.

• 0:16Rich Roll?

  Check, check, check. See if this mic works. It's been since May since we've done one of these, Adam. We're back after an extended hiatus, interrupted with a few mini-docs and monologues, but the people have spoken, Adam, and here we are, back with Roll On, hotly anticipated for the hardcore fans.

• 0:33Adam Skolnick?

  Good to be here, man. Thanks for having me.

• 0:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, man. It's good to see you. We're a little rusty, unsure, on unsure footing about what we're gonna talk about today, but I'm excited. I can feel the anticipation in the air.

• 0:47Adam Skolnick?

  Yes.

• 0:48Rich Roll?

  So, as always, you know, we're gonna shoot some shit, maybe answer a couple listener questions, but we do have a special announcement we're gonna make, and we have a special guest who begrudgingly is gonna be joining us after the break. And his name is Chris Evans, not Captain America. I would say Captain UK. He is the broadcasting legend himself, host of the Chris Evans Breakfast Show on Virgin Radio every morning, broadcasting from London. He's been a huge supporter of this show. He's on vacation here in Los Angeles, and like, if we're doing Roll On, we gotta bring the guy on, right?

• 1:25Adam Skolnick?

  Oh, yeah. We're forcing him out of his vacation hibernation.

• 1:28Rich Roll?

  Yeah, exactly. He's here. He wanted to watch, but we're not gonna allow that. So, he's gonna be coming on after the break. In the meantime, our voicemail, again, is 805-421-0057. If you'd like your question answered on air, you can leave it there for a future Roll On episode, whenever that's gonna happen.

• 1:45Adam Skolnick?

  I love it.

• 1:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah, man. So, let's do the check-in.

• 1:48Adam Skolnick?

  You know what? It's good to be here. I've been missing you. I miss being here. I was at the beach not too long ago with the family. You know, I'm at the beach with the family a lot. And I thought of, I saw the way our water fountains are being treated, and I wanted to start, just unpack the water fountain situation. So, this woman comes along with her dog. The dog is thirsty, it's hot out, and she brings it right to the water fountain and turns on the water. It's not the first time I've seen this in Santa Monica. Turns on the water fountain, the dog hops up and starts lapping out of the water fountain. And so, this is, I go into this immediate, like, I have like, one of those Go into my brain and I'm thinking, this is like a David Goggins moment where even

• 2:33Adam Skolnick?

  the dogs in Santa Monica don't have the dog in them. And I texted him this afterwards. It used to be when we were kids, we would like, we, those things were oases. We would play really hard. We'd go over there, we'd drink out of them. Some kids would like lick on them. We'd still then drink after them. It wouldn't even matter to us. And now everyone has the little bottle and has their perfect water. And the dogs even won't drink out of the gutter. The dogs used to be happy with the gutter water.

• 2:59Rich Roll?

  What is happening to our society? So you said that to Goggins? What did he say?

• 3:04Adam Skolnick?

  He said, oh, man, it's all fucked up. That's why I'm out here smoke jumping.

• 3:08Rich Roll?

  So basically what you're saying is this is the death of civilization in an anecdote, right? In a nutshell, the dog, you know, refusing to drink water as given.

• 3:18Adam Skolnick?

  Right. The gutter water is not good enough for the dog. The water fountain water is not good enough for the kids. You know, I'm drinking fucking alkaline water. What is alkaline water?

• 3:27Rich Roll?

  Do you know that at Erawan, there is a bottled water that costs $30? It's like 24 ounces or something like that. And it's got a, you know, it's like, this is your wellness elixir or something. I don't know what they do to this water. I hope it's something fucking extraordinary.

• 3:43Adam Skolnick?

  It's blessed by Sheldon monks.

• 3:46Rich Roll?

  But it's almost like that's the allure, right? Like we have to buy the $30 water.

• 3:50Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, that's where we're at right now. Yeah, that's what, that's, that's, that's it. You know, that's what I wanted to talk about.

• 3:56Rich Roll?

  Forget AI, forget, you know, everything else.

• 3:59Adam Skolnick?

  That's the canary in the coal mine. Dogs drinking out of water fountains.

• 4:03Rich Roll?

  Yes. We can, yeah, we can celebrate the room temperature superconductor at, at ambient pressure. But if we can't like, you know, figure out the water thing.

• 4:12Adam Skolnick?

  It's true. Cause you can't.

• 4:14Rich Roll?

  None of it's gonna matter.

• 4:15Adam Skolnick?

  No. It's a, that's where we're at. So I think that's the canary in the coal mine. We're going to get back into that in a second, but I wanted to also tell you a story. A helicopter was talking to me the other day. Did you see my post?

• 4:27Rich Roll?

  When this was happening, were you crawling around on the carpet looking for small little white particles to smoke or stick up your nose?

• 4:35Adam Skolnick?

  I know.

• 4:36Rich Roll?

  With the blinds shut?

• 4:37Adam Skolnick?

  That does sound fun.

• 4:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, this is like, I've heard this before. It generally is in a, in the closed rooms of the secret society.

• 4:45Adam Skolnick?

  Yes, no, no.

• 4:46Rich Roll?

  After four days of no sleep and lots of substances.

• 4:49Adam Skolnick?

  Exactly, exactly. So that's why you know, though, from those stories, it's never a good thing when the helicopters start talking to you.

• 4:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 4:56Adam Skolnick?

  Never awesome. So I'm

• 4:57Rich Roll?

  Thinking Goodfellas right now.

• 4:59Adam Skolnick?

  Right, exactly. You're like looking for helicopters. So where I swim sometimes at Will Rogers, they do maneuvers. Like sometimes it's LAPD, sometimes it's Coast Guard, sometimes it's the sheriff's chopper. That you often see, it's like a turnaround spot for helicopters. But this time, I'm swimming, doing my normal swim. I get to almost my turnaround and this LAPD copper does like three loops. And then all of a sudden I hear, swimmer, there are five or six sharks 20 yards out from you. And I look up at this helicopter that's hovering and looking at me. And I'm like, okay.

• 5:39Adam Skolnick?

  And then I don't do anything. I like, instead I like turn behind me as if I, and I have my mask on. I turn behind me and I'm like, all right, what do I do now? Do I swim in? Like this guy's like worried about me. Like I don't like it when people worry about me. I just that, you know, it makes me uncomfortable. And so then he says it again, you know, swimmer, there's five or six sharks. And I say, okay, so I decide to do it. I'm pretty far out.

• 6:03Rich Roll?

  Are you around like at the point?

• 6:06Adam Skolnick?

  No, I'm on my way. So I started a little bit further south on the coast. I'm like right at Bel Air Bay Club. So usually I'll swim either to Bel Air Bay and back to Temescal. Or I'll swim all the way to the staircase of the Sunset Surf Break or maybe to the point. And so this time it was kind of just to Bel Air Bay. And so I swim back, I'm pretty far out. So I do like a kind of diagonal swim. And I'm thinking about just going in because it's like, even though I'm the guy that says sharks aren't scary. It's kind of weird to get a helicopter.

• 6:36Rich Roll?

  Do you really believe that?

• 6:39Adam Skolnick?

  It's kind of weird thing to do and not listen. So I swim in, but then I keep swimming down. Like as soon as it sees me swim close enough to the wave, it feels like, okay, I'm fine. I like, I feel like, okay, the sharks didn't follow me. I can go and I just swam back to my spot. But I thought that was strange.

• 6:57Rich Roll?

  I was hoping he was gonna drop a line or a ladder and you were gonna grab onto it. And then he was gonna elevate you out and you, you know, take you to the shore safely.

• 7:06Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, help, help. Yeah, so that was weird. That happened.

• 7:10Rich Roll?

  Well, this just proves your thesis.

• 7:12Adam Skolnick?

  It does.

• 7:12Rich Roll?

  You're always saying the sharks are there all the time. It's just now we see them more.

• 7:16Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, well, you know who my first call was after that whole thing.

• 7:20Rich Roll?

  The Malibu artist.

• 7:21Adam Skolnick?

  Right, so I call him and he says, dude, I was there the day, I was there yesterday. And I think I saw those five or six sharks. But he says, when there are five or six that you can see, there's always five or six you can't see. But he told me, he gave me the down low, which is they're about seven, five to seven feet. So six footers, they're all, basically, they're all just getting pupped. So it's pupping season for great whites. We've always thought it was a nursery out there. And now this confirms. And he says they're gonna be around for like 18 months.

• 7:51Rich Roll?

  But that also doesn't sound great. If there's a lot of babies around, you know, doesn't that heighten the danger?

• 7:56Adam Skolnick?

  Well, they're eating rays. They're not like even eating marine mammals.

• 8:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but if you get anywhere near any of the pups, doesn't that alert?

• 8:05Adam Skolnick?

  It's not the same. Once they're out, they're out. It's not the same.

• 8:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah, fuck them, once they're born.

• 8:10Adam Skolnick?

  It's one of those drop and run. It's a drop and run.

• 8:17Rich Roll?

  All right.

• 8:17Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 8:18Rich Roll?

  Um, cool, man. Well, that's, that's, those are two good stories.

• 8:22Adam Skolnick?

  Yes, that's where I start.

• 8:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but you know, there's been a, there's been a turn journalistically, has there not?

• 8:27Adam Skolnick?

  There's been a turn, yeah. Yeah, then the New York Times Sports, uh, shut down its sport, the New York Times has shut down its sports desk. So New York Times Sports, as it were, I guess is not gonna exist here in the next several weeks.

• 8:41Rich Roll?

  No one saw that coming, did they?

• 8:43Adam Skolnick?

  Nobody.

• 8:43Rich Roll?

  It's pretty crazy.

• 8:44Adam Skolnick?

  Nobody saw it coming because literally the people that worked at the sports desk weren't told until the story broke. And so everyone, we all found out at the same time. I mean, I'm not even putting myself because I don't work full time for them. So like I found out when the general public found out, but so did the people that were staffing, staffing the sports desk. And I think there's an explanation for that, that I'm not privy to, but I would imagine it's like, you don't want rumor and all that's getting around. It's better to be out front and, you know, whatever happens. There's lots of, there's, there's no nice way to do something like that. So to me, it's like, it's just the way they chose and that's the way it is. But it did, you know, I was saddened by it and beyond personal opportunity, I was saddened by it because it was such a big deal to start writing for the New York Times Sports.

• 9:26Adam Skolnick?

  You know, it all started for me in Vertical Blue 2013, my first assignment for them. Nick Mavoli dies.

• 9:34Adam Skolnick?

  And basically, like, that assignment changed everything about my career and my life, really, because it led to One Breath, which led to meeting you, which also led to reconnecting with my wife, April. And so then there's Zuma, and like, the Goggins thing, and Can't Hurt Me wouldn't exist without One Breath, without going to that thing. So the New York Times Sports is so now, like, beyond just being proud to be able to work with some amazing editors, great photographers, good people and great at what they do, you know, and to tell the story of these athletes and freedivers, open water swimmers, mountaineers, big wave surfers, triathletes, you know, thanks to you. And like, I was, I predicted

• 10:19Adam Skolnick?

  in the New York Times Sports that Christian Blumenfeld would win the Tokyo Call, and then also the Ironman.

• 10:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 10:25Adam Skolnick?

  You know, so like, the fact that we predicted that, like, that's a culmination of so many things in the New York Times. That's because, because of that first assignment. And so it was like, it's really, it's been important to me. So I'm bummed by it. You know, John Branch, I was able to work with him on my first A1 story for the New York Times. And he was, he's been on Twitter talking about, like, his feelings about it. I think I'll do, like, something on Threads, or Twitter, or X, whatever the fuck it's called now. I'll do, like, a retrospective and kind of unpack some of the stories, because, you know, it's over 30, like, 35 stories now I've done for them over the years. And I hope to stay and tell, you know, I've got other editors there, so hopefully I'll be able to work with the

• 11:09Adam Skolnick?

  Times again. It's sad for endurance and adventure sports, because, really, Washington Post does some of that, but the New York Times, I think, with Outside Magazine, were like, the top for those kinds of stories.

• 11:22Rich Roll?

  Sure. I mean, they really invested in those longer stories. And then, the art direction... That they kind of infuse them with to create these experiences with video and imagery. Like, you know, it was really compelling, like the stuff that you did with Colin O'Brien when he was going across Antarctica. I mean, nobody else does that.

• 11:41Adam Skolnick?

  No.

• 11:41Rich Roll?

  And so that's gone.

• 11:42Adam Skolnick?

  Gone.

• 11:43Rich Roll?

  Which sucks. It's not about daily box scores as much as it is the more journalistic kind of stories that are human interest as much as they are sports. I mean, they kind of transcend the sports page. So I was wondering whether those kinds of stories could still find a home at the New York Times, just not under the sports page. Because they are as much sort of, you know, life and style stories as they are sports stories.

• 12:07Adam Skolnick?

  It's a very good question. I don't know exactly the answer to that yet because you're right. Like, the idea was this sports desk isn't, I guess, doing the job financially and we bought The Athletic.

• 12:18Rich Roll?

  And so now The Athletic is taking over all of that.

• 12:21Adam Skolnick?

  They bought The Athletic for 500-plus million dollars. And then as soon as they bought it, I was worried already for the sports, my friends at the sports desk, because I didn't know how that would all work. But then it seemed to be going along as normal and then obviously one day it isn't. And I'm not privy to those decisions. Like, I'm not one of those writers that goes on Twitter and yells about my, my people who I work for. It's like, I'll never be that guy. So like, if you don't have the information, it's impossible for me to be critical about these decisions. To me, it's a decision that I think is a choice and if it works out or not, they could always choose to go back. Like, I was, I was writing for Playboy pretty regularly when they decided not to do nudes anymore.

• 13:01Adam Skolnick?

  And I knew one thing that their last move was, we're doing nudes again. So, you know, this kind of thing.

• 13:09Rich Roll?

  That's a pretty predictable move.

• 13:10Adam Skolnick?

  Right. So they could, like, it's, if, if, I don't even know the math, but I had imagined if you want to start up a sports desk, you could do it again pretty easily. So like, this isn't necessarily the end. But you're right, like, to me, the New York Times sports was never about, although they've had great basketball writers, had great baseball writers, have, they have a great, a great soccer writer, Rory Smith right now, he's fantastic. And they've got, had great tennis people. But you're right, the sports section itself was kind of an, an Expanded view of the sports world, which you don't get on the ESPNs.

• 13:42Rich Roll?

  Right. You're not, you're not reading a story about freediving and looking at these amazing photos of these people because you're a sports nut.

• 13:49Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 13:49Rich Roll?

  It, it really is a curiosity that's born as much from just trying to understand something you've never seen before.

• 13:56Adam Skolnick?

  Right, right, right. And so I think, we'll see. I mean, I, they say like the sports business stories are now going to be folded in under business. So I hope so. I hope the adventure stuff can find a way home under travel, maybe, or under like just the global desk. I mean, I don't know. We'll see. I'm gonna fi- I'm gonna try to find out.

• 14:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And what happens to friend of the pod, Matt Futterman?

• 14:15Adam Skolnick?

  He's, you know, he's cranking away. He's, he's, they're still fire. The, the sports desk still seems to be functioning right now. They say this transition is going to be over at some point this month or next month, they say. Or they've said, this is public stuff. So no one's telling me anything privately. But it sounds like by the fall, whatever the new thing is going to be locked in place. For you as a consumer, it's still going to say sports on your New York Times app is just going to be done by the athletic staff.

• 14:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I guess more broadly, what is that augur in terms of the media landscape? Like, oh, the New York Times like got rid of their sports and no big deal. Well, they had the athletic. So it really is just a shuffling of the deck, I suppose.

• 14:54Adam Skolnick?

  It is, but I don't think the athletic covers these, these cool sports.

• 14:59Rich Roll?

  You know, Elon comes in, buys Twitter, like, you know, fires, like, you know, a massive number, number of the employees. And somehow the app still seems to work.

• 15:08Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 15:08Rich Roll?

  You can argue about how well it works, but then all the other CEOs are like, huh. You know, maybe, maybe I can cut my workforce back as well. Like, is there some of that happening?

• 15:19Adam Skolnick?

  Well, they say.

• 15:19Rich Roll?

  That announcement with other journalistic outlets.

• 15:22Adam Skolnick?

  They say Bezos is taking an increased interest in the Washington Post. So that's never good when, when the money guy starts showing up.

• 15:30Adam Skolnick?

  Right, like, I don't know. I mean,

• 15:33Adam Skolnick?

  journalism's been fraught for a long time. This is a reminder that anything can happen at any time. No one would have ever predicted this, I don't think, even after they bought The Athletic. It seemed to be a parallel business and it didn't seem to be part of the same thing. I guess my take, my concern is, like you've already said, the endurance and adventure sports, like, do, will they have a home? Because The Athletic is more kind of an ESPN, similar than ESPN, their focus is on these very mainstream sports. And so there's not really a lot of coverage of these.

• 16:03Rich Roll?

  There's not a receptivity to the kind of stories that you do.

• 16:05Adam Skolnick?

  It doesn't seem to be. And I wouldn't even know who, like, the other thing about this business is, you have to know who to approach, right? Like, I don't know anybody in the Athletic side of things.

• 16:14Rich Roll?

  Who's your guy?

• 16:15Adam Skolnick?

  I don't know yet.

• 16:16Rich Roll?

  You have an inside guy. But here's the thing.

• 16:18Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 16:18Rich Roll?

  Uh, these stories, uh, find a way, right?

• 16:21Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 16:21Rich Roll?

  Like, freediving will not die. As a matter of fact,

• 16:23Adam Skolnick?

  No.

• 16:24Rich Roll?

  it found its way all the way to Netflix.

• 16:26Adam Skolnick?

  It did.

• 16:27Rich Roll?

  And, uh, your star is on the rise, my friend, because you made your Netflix debut in a, in a smash hit.

• 16:33Adam Skolnick?

  It's, hey, you know what?

• 16:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 16:34Adam Skolnick?

  The deepest breath, it's, it's cranking. It's been top 10 on Netflix for a couple of weeks.

• 16:38Rich Roll?

  It's pretty exciting.

• 16:40Adam Skolnick?

  Yes, it's been, it's been great. I knew that, I knew that, that the film had potential. When they first were putting it together, Laura McGann, the director and her producers at Ventureland, approached me early on, um, because they were looking at doing a story on Stephen Keenan and Alessia Zucchini. Um, Alessia is, uh, a world record holder Italian freediver. Stephen Keenan is the greatest safety diver in the history of the sport with some amazing rescues under his belt and, and, uh, has an Irish national record holder as well. So their, their story, I'd reported on, kind of the crux of what happens. I'm not going to spoil it, in the deepest breath for Outside once before. And then obviously they'd read One Breath, and so they approached me early on.

• 17:24Adam Skolnick?

  And I was very encouraging, saying, I've always loved this story. I think there's a great potential for the story. I'm happy you're doing it. It was an Irish director doing it, which I also liked. And so, but then, you know, they asked me to come to Vertical Blue, but it just didn't work out. Like, I think it was, it was Vertical Blue right after the pandemic. It was like hard, hard for me to get there. And so I figured I wasn't going to be in it. Then they came kind of towards the end of production and they've, they, they, we did a shoot out here in LA.

• 17:52Rich Roll?

  But the important question is, how much do you think Roll On has contributed to the success of The Deepest Breath? Because

• 18:00Adam Skolnick?

  Definitely some.

• 18:00Rich Roll?

  Despite my best efforts to steer the conversation away from freediving, week in and week out, this is the sport that refuses to go away.

• 18:09Adam Skolnick?

  It really is.

• 18:10Rich Roll?

  You just find a reason to bring it back. And now it's on Netflix. And, you know, you are, you're, you're playing a role in the ascension of this sport. And how many, how many Skolnick heads, you know, were, were logging into Netflix and upping up the algorithm there to push that into the top 10?

• 18:26Adam Skolnick?

  There's no question, the Rich Roll Skolnick heads have had something to do with this. I've been hearing from them. And you know what? Like, it's cool to see. I think that the success of the, the movie is really that people in the mainstream are seeing this sport. Like you said, the images and the video you can get, especially now, is amazing. And Vertical Blue, they started pioneering this, this camera that it's a, you know, remote operated vehicle that go, dive eye, and it goes all the way down the line. And so the fact that that exists, it didn't exist when, when I was doing One Breath. We only were using sonar. And so you could see it if you dove down for the first, you know, 20 meters and then come back up. But you weren't seeing what's happening. The fact that you have that, and you can see this footage, it's you really only, like dive nerds like me

• 19:11Adam Skolnick?

  that were watching that stuff on YouTube. It's out there. But now people are seeing it. And the way the sound design in the film is so great. It really like wraps you up.

• 19:20Rich Roll?

  Cinematically, it's, yeah, it's quite beautiful.

• 19:22Adam Skolnick?

  I wouldn't be surprised if they get some Oscar, Oscar noms.

• 19:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that would be cool.

• 19:25Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 19:26Rich Roll?

  Oscar nominated Skolnick.

• 19:28Adam Skolnick?

  I might have to.

• 19:28Rich Roll?

  Appearing in an Oscar. So here, I'm, I'm looking at the outline, and you've got like eight more points about freediving in here with a bunch of names, Eastern Bloc and Russian, Ukrainian names in here. We're not, we're not going to do this, Adam. We're not, we've spent enough time on freediving today.

• 19:45Adam Skolnick?

  Okay. We're not going to do that. We're not, we're not going to.

• 19:48Rich Roll?

  Like, we don't need to get into buy fins and, you know.

• 19:52Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 19:52Rich Roll?

  Whatever. It's cool. Check out the show on Netflix. End of story.

• 19:58Adam Skolnick?

  End of story.

• 19:58Rich Roll?

  Right?

• 19:59Adam Skolnick?

  Let's put a button on this. Uh, can I just say one thing? Alexei Molchunov, two more world records. What? Hundred thirty-three meters, bro. One breath. Hundred thirty-three meters.

• 20:10Rich Roll?

  Cool. That is awesome, actually.

• 20:13Adam Skolnick?

  That's something that is awesome.

• 20:14Rich Roll?

  I gave you that one.

• 20:15Adam Skolnick?

  All right.

• 20:16Rich Roll?

  Maybe I'll edit it out.

• 20:17Adam Skolnick?

  Snuck it in. Yeah, cut it out later.

• 20:19Rich Roll?

  Anything else you want to share?

• 20:20Adam Skolnick?

  I'm gonna ask Chris Evans what he thinks about freediving.

• 20:23Rich Roll?

  Trust me, I'm sure he's got an opinion or two.

• 20:27Rich Roll?

  All right.

• 20:28Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, what about you, man? What's been going on? I know you've been working on that.

• 20:30Rich Roll?

  I've just been sitting here waiting for you to ask about me, Adam, so I could share.

• 20:36Adam Skolnick?

  Do you sometimes, when you're sitting across from someone, just completely tune out and just plan what you're gonna say next?

• 20:43Rich Roll?

  I do do that, or I have done that, but that's also, when I start doing that, I know that things are going off the rails. This is not gonna be a good podcast, because if I can't pay attention, yeah, it's not good.

• 20:52Adam Skolnick?

  That's not you. That's not you.

• 20:54Rich Roll?

  I'm good, man. Life is good. I'm dealing with a little in-between hair right now. You know, I had short hair. I decided to grow it out a little bit, and now I don't know what to do with it. It just looks bad, no matter what I do.

• 21:05Adam Skolnick?

  I think, and this is true.

• 21:07Rich Roll?

  Living with it, growing the beard out, getting a little more hair suit.

• 21:10Adam Skolnick?

  Well, when I first saw you, I said how great you looked.

• 21:12Rich Roll?

  I appreciate that.

• 21:13Adam Skolnick?

  I like this in-between look.

• 21:14Rich Roll?

  Well, there's a power dynamic between us, though, right? I have to take that with the greatest salt.

• 21:19Adam Skolnick?

  You don't trust my opinions?

• 21:20Rich Roll?

  No, I do.

• 21:23Rich Roll?

  A lot, Ben. Since we last did this, again, end of May.

• 21:27Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 21:28Rich Roll?

  I mean, where to even begin? Lot of travel, lot of family time.

• 21:31Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 21:31Rich Roll?

  I think the last time we did it was right before I went to Australia.

• 21:35Adam Skolnick?

  Yes.

• 21:35Rich Roll?

  I went to Australia, did a bunch, did a couple podcasts, gave a speech, had some trips with the kids, recorded a ton of podcasts. We're finalizing Voicing Change, Volume Three.

• 21:48Adam Skolnick?

  Oh, exciting.

• 21:49Rich Roll?

  More on that soon, but that book is on the horizon. Uh, we have, um, Sir Patrick Stewart coming in later this week.

• 21:57Adam Skolnick?

  Really?

• 21:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 21:58Adam Skolnick?

  That's great.

• 21:59Rich Roll?

  That's an exciting guest.

• 22:00Adam Skolnick?

  For sure.

• 22:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that'll be fun. Um, we passed a million YouTube subscribers, so thank you, everyone who, who has subscribed to that channel. Um, that's pretty exciting.

• 22:10Rich Roll?

  Interestingly, did you know that 80% of the views that we get on YouTube are from non-subscribers?

• 22:16Adam Skolnick?

  No, what does that mean?

• 22:17Rich Roll?

  It means that people watch our videos and don't subscribe.

• 22:20Adam Skolnick?

  So that means you have potentially like 8 million viewers or something?

• 22:25Rich Roll?

  Who knows? So anyway, if you haven't subscribed and you watch on YouTube or you've gotten value from the show on YouTube, just hit that stupid button. That's all I'm asking. Maybe hit a like button too, once in a while.

• 22:37Adam Skolnick?

  1 million's pretty good. 1 million's pretty good.

• 22:40Rich Roll?

  No, it's pretty cool. It's surreal. I mean, not that, you know, I posted about this on Instagram. I try not to get caught up in that kind of stuff because it just, you know, it tweaks with how you think about what you want to do on the show when you start thinking about numbers and audience and stuff like that. But I think it's important to celebrate those landmarks.

• 23:03Adam Skolnick?

  For sure.

• 23:04Rich Roll?

  Also for all of our coworkers here and for the fans and the people that have been on this journey with us. It's a wild thing, man. That's a lot of people. It's hard. Your brain can't really wrap itself around that.

• 23:16Adam Skolnick?

  Well, the YouTube channel, kind of, you only started intensively looking at YouTube not too long ago, actually, in terms of the life of the show, right?

• 23:23Rich Roll?

  A handful of years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're still learning a lot, you know? I would say the vast majority of the audience is audio only still and we're learning as we go with YouTube. And I think there's a lot of growth opportunity there and it's exciting. And I love the fact that we do it visually and we have the studio and, you know, we're executing at such a high level in terms of production value and trying to deliver something interesting, you know, on that platform. So anyway, it's a cool little thing to celebrate. So thank you, everybody, for that.

• 23:52Adam Skolnick?

  Super cool.

• 23:53Rich Roll?

  On the health front, I've had a lot of progress with my lower back. I know I've shared many times about being kind of hampered, so to speak, through this chronic lower back injury and pain that I've been dealing with for many, many years. But... The last person on the whistle stop tour was a guy that I found up in Sonoma County. He's really been helping me out. So I've been going up there like once a month. I've been up there for three visits where I stay for a couple of days. This guy works on me and I've had real progress. I'm not out of the woods yet, but I've had more mobility and flexibility and less pain than I've had since probably like 2017, which was the last time that I was truly like fit.

• 24:36Rich Roll?

  So I'm not exactly back to training, training, but I can move my body in a way that I haven't been able to in a number of years. So I see the light at the end of the tunnel. I still have a long way to go to kind of completely liberate myself of this issue, but I'm pretty optimistic for the first time in a long time. And I think I'm going to be able to solve this short of surgery, which was my goal to figure it out. And if I needed surgery, I'm happy to have surgery, but I wanted to explore everything else prior to that. And it kind of lost open, had resigned myself to, you know, getting cut open and having it dealt with that way. But I'm actually having real progress right now, so we'll see where that leads.

• 25:19Rich Roll?

  But I'm back on the bike. I can swim. I gotta keep it pretty chill. The running stuff is at a very low simmer at the moment, but everything else like I'm able to, I just, I feel like myself again.

• 25:31Adam Skolnick?

  That's awesome.

• 25:31Rich Roll?

  It's like you forget like this is who I am. And when I can't express myself that way, I don't feel myself.

• 25:36Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 25:37Rich Roll?

  But I really do feel like myself in a way that I had almost forgotten. And that's pretty exciting and feels good.

• 25:44Adam Skolnick?

  It's exciting. And is this a PT guy? Is it like a medical doctor?

• 25:49Rich Roll?

  He's a multidisciplinary. No, it's a long story. He has a lot of different modalities that he works with, but he has a very specific chiropractic technique that is very painful, where he cracks my back in a certain way that makes me feel like he's going to paralyze me, but has really loosened things up for me.

• 26:09Adam Skolnick?

  Wow.

• 26:09Rich Roll?

  It's been good.

• 26:10Adam Skolnick?

  Interesting.

• 26:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah, cool.

• 26:13Rich Roll?

  That's really it. I don't have lots of funny stories about water fountains and sharks and stuff like that. You know, I just come to the studio and I do my thing. Although.

• 26:22Adam Skolnick?

  I think about my warm open for days in advance.

• 26:25Rich Roll?

  I can tell. It's very scripted. A little state, some note. I have notes, Adam. It felt a little spontaneous, but maybe a little bit too thought out beforehand.

• 26:36Adam Skolnick?

  But I used to come on here and just say, "I'm great. How are you?" And then I started getting heckled, remember?

• 26:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know. Anyway, life is good. I'm very grateful to be able to do this thing and celebrate it with so many people. So I just wanted to recognize the audience for taking this journey with us. It's good to be back with you. I am headed to London in a couple of weeks, which I'm very excited about. I want to share a little bit more about what that is all about. But I think this is a good time to take a quick break and then we'll come back and bring Chris on.

• 27:09Adam Skolnick?

  Beautiful.

• 27:09Rich Roll?

  Awesome.

• 27:18Rich Roll?

  All right, are we good?

• 27:20Speaker 02

  No.

• 27:21Rich Roll?

  We're not good?

• 27:21Speaker 02

  I'm not good.

• 27:22Adam Skolnick?

  Come on, Chris. You look fantastic. Look at you. You're a star.

• 27:26Rich Roll?

  I am over the moon to have you sit here and join us today. I have no idea what's going to happen. We have a whole outline. I have a feeling we're not going to get to any of it. But I'm just thrilled to sit across from you, to have you in the studio. So you can share this experience with us. But also, before we even get into anything, like I honestly, from the bottom of my heart, I owe you such a massive debt of gratitude. I just wanted to thank you publicly for all the support that you have given, that you continue to give to the podcast, to Roll On specifically. And, you know, when I go to London, like the popularity of the show in the UK, and in London specifically, is due entirely to your promotion and advocacy.

• 28:09Rich Roll?

  And, you know, it's just, it's, I can't thank you enough for the support that you've given us over the years. It like really means a lot. And so it's an absolute thrill to have you here today.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for all that. However, that doesn't mean I'm not totally opposed to my own appearance on this program right now. I couldn't be more against what is currently happening on Roll On. As a super fan of-

• 28:31Rich Roll?

  Down, you're, you're, you love it. You're happy to be here. I know you are.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  I was thrilled to be invited out to come and watch you and, and meet the whole team, who I love, by the way. But there are a few cardinal sins on, that you commit from time to time on Roll On. The, the biggest cardinal sin is when you invite a third party on to the show. So I am now committing the cardinal sin. But I'm not committing it.

• 28:56Rich Roll?

  But I bear the responsibility.

• 28:58Speaker 02

  It's not fair.

• 28:59Rich Roll?

  I'm forcing you. So I take responsibility for it.

• 29:02Speaker 02

  People back in the UK say, he's just saying that he, he loves beer. I, I am so against this appearance. That's the first thing. The second thing is when you mess around with the original, actually, that's the third thing. The second thing is when you refer to via emails or texts to me, oh, it's going to be an old school Roll On, right? Like Roland's been around forever, right? Roland, in audio entertainment, in, in our universe-

• 29:30Rich Roll?

  Yes.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  This podcast has been around for about a minute, let alone Roll On. Yet you refer to Roll On as an, oh, we may do an old school Roll On. Oh, my God. You've been on the air for about a second, you two, okay? Get back, get back in your boxes.

• 29:45Adam Skolnick?

  In the podcast world, actually, time moves very, very, very fast. Very, very, very fast.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  Okay. Yeah. Well, let's go with that. Yeah. And anyway, the third thing is to mess around with the format. And that is, I, I, you know, I love Roll On.

• 29:57Rich Roll?

  I know.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  I, I was-

• 29:58Rich Roll?

  You're, you're the Roll On number one fan.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  I couldn't be more thrilled to be invited out to Los Angeles to meet Adam and his friend, Rich.

• 30:06Adam Skolnick?

  That's very kind of you.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  You're welcome.

• 30:09Rich Roll?

  I want notes, though. I like your notes. Like you, you've always been a big supporter of this version of the podcast. You have strong opinions about when we go astray, what we should do, what we shouldn't do. And you're, you're the fucking legend, dude. So I, when you say, do this, don't do that, like, I'm paying attention.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  I hope to goodness, I don't say to you two, do this, don't do that, where this, this-

• 30:31Rich Roll?

  Well, you say, this works for me, this doesn't work for me.

• 30:34Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, I know. You have a certain wisdom. You're not just the average listener. You actually, you know, you, you've made quite a name for yourself in, in this broadcasting business. So of course, we're going to listen to everything you say.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Please, please don't do that. Please. The number- Two problem most people have in the world.

• 30:52Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Is is getting what they want. Because the number one problem is that they have is they don't know what they want. Right. And when you refer to, well, you know, the feedback has been this, the feedback. They don't know what they want. People listening to this, they just reverse engineer. What they think they want. Because then they have the agency over they wanted it in the first place. They need what you give them and then they interpret that as to what they want.

• 31:21Rich Roll?

  So you just you come from the heart and you express yourself authentically. And the people will come.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  That's what happens. Yeah, and the guests will come. And your team, I heard the backstory of your team and how they came to be and how Jason came. You know, to relocated here and Dan relocated here. You know, and they were all doing different things at different times. You know, and and Dan was a pastor.

• 31:45Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  Um, you know, and he was a whole different human being. And then he realized that he was losing his faith and that he wasn't living to his true nature. And that's why the road of life was bumpy. And then the more you align yourself to who you are, you know, Guru Singh talks about this all the time. Then the more things start to happen because you're sailing with the wind as opposed to rowing against the tide. And suddenly life gets a bit more fluid and fluent and it's all more. And that's how it feels.

• 32:14Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:15Adam Skolnick?

  That's that's a great way of putting it.

• 32:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, I mean, I think you you share that from a place of wisdom and like. Learned, lived experience because you're somebody not, you know, as a broadcaster, you've been doing this for a long time. But you've had massive success. You've, you know, kind of come to terms with the emptiness of certain aspects of that. And the way that you live your life now is very different from how you were living it not that long ago.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  Well, it's 67 days ago, I haven't my last drink for you. You've even stopped me drinking.

• 32:46Rich Roll?

  I know, that's fantastic.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  67 days?

• 32:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 32:49Adam Skolnick?

  Wow.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. And my wife. And we stopped on a Saturday morning. Nobody stops drinking on a Saturday morning.

• 32:56Rich Roll?

  No.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  You leave it till a Monday.

• 32:57Adam Skolnick?

  You wait till after Sunday lunch, right?

• 32:59Speaker 02

  We had quite a big fun.

• 33:00Adam Skolnick?

  It's Sunday lunch, you gotta have Sunday lunch, then you quit.

• 33:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, or Saturday night.

• 33:04Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 33:05Speaker 02

  But we did that thing where, I told you, I went to a meeting.

• 33:07Rich Roll?

  What was happening?

• 33:08Speaker 02

  Well, nothing really. I mean, you know, why does anybody drink? Why does anybody consume anything from the outside in, you know, to pursue pleasure? For various reasons, at various differing times in one's life, you know? And I told you, I went to this meeting on the beach the other day. And this guy described it beautifully. He said, you know, "For a long time when I was drinking and I was using and I was abusing things and substances and people and having a great time, but without little substance, although all the substances, then you have all the fun. You can have all the fun and then you have a lot of the fun and you have a few problems. And then you have more problems than a bit of fun and then you just have the problems." That's one way of describing it. Another way of describing it, and there are thousands, as you know,

• 33:52Speaker 02

  would be, you used to have a drink to take the edge off, yeah? Well, I found now that we were having a drink and it was taking the shine off. Because our lives were shiny. And I suddenly felt like whatever was working before wasn't working now. And the next day, there was less of the good stuff. And there was more of the good stuff to begin with, it was more palpable. And why would you rough up your own diamond, as it were? And that, I got up 60, whatever, 67 days ago. And I said to Tash, "I don't know this anymore, should I run with you?" And then we just stopped.

• 34:30Rich Roll?

  That's beautiful. So it's just Athletic Greens from here on out.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  AG1, baby. Yeah, run to my place.

• 34:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  Come on.

• 34:37Rich Roll?

  I love that. But even beyond that.

• 34:39Adam Skolnick?

  So you're smoking Athletic Greens now?

• 34:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, anything. Mainlining it.

• 34:43Rich Roll?

  Mocktails. Athletic Greens mocktails.

• 34:45Speaker 02

  Biting our kids in it and smelling them?

• 34:47Rich Roll?

  Yes. Well, I had mentioned before the break that I'm going to London in a couple of weeks. And the main reason for that is I'm going to be participating in your upcoming CarFest event. So I wanted you to share a little bit about what that event is about. But just the fact that it's called CarFest is interesting because it illustrates a little bit of your arc. Because it's not, you used to be like a guy with a huge car collection, right? Like you're, you had like a Jay Leno situation going on. But you don't live that way. You're on vacation, everything you packed is light walking style in that backpack over there. You've really stripped down your life and gotten more clear on what's important, what's not important. So as a lead into talking about CarFest, like, just share a little

• 35:32Rich Roll?

  bit about that journey. Because I think people think, well, that's fine for him to say, but like, I, I need that success. And that success is going to fill that hole for me. And you found otherwise.

• 35:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is turning into a proper show now.

• 35:45Rich Roll?

  I know, I can't help it. I can't help it.

• 35:48Speaker 02

  Adam?

• 35:49Rich Roll?

  I told you the outline.

• 35:50Speaker 02

  People wanted Roland back. And Roland was back for 25 minutes.

• 35:54Rich Roll?

  There is a bunch of stuff I need to talk about, but go ahead.

• 35:57Speaker 02

  Really?

• 35:57Rich Roll?

  I want to context your life.

• 35:59Speaker 02

  Jeez. I just came here to watch. I promise I came here to watch. Now you have to open your heart and soul. Oh, jeez. I know.

• 36:07Rich Roll?

  A tear would be good.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  CarFest started off as, I always wanted to do a family festival. And so, but I knew that calling it a family fest or whatever would be something that would be a worthy thing to do, but it wouldn't get people through the door. And then one day I was going to this, and no, I wasn't going anywhere. It was January, it was the third week in January. It was, it was raining even more than it usually does in, in Britain. And it was cold and it was miserable. And there was this car show, an indoor car show in January when nobody had any money. And there was a 25 mile tailback on the motorway, the highway, because people were going to queue up to go to this car show, I think. People go to car show, third week in January, indoors. Let's just, let's call our family festival a car show.

• 36:54Speaker 02

  And so, so we did, and it worked. And so we got families to come to the car. It was a car festival, but there were bands on as well. And that was 21 festivals ago. And since then, it's transmogrified. But I was, I did, I was into cars at the time. Sorry, but I evaded your question and I didn't want to.

• 37:10Adam Skolnick?

  No, but I mean, it's a great thing to bring kids to. So it's like, like Zuma, if it was, if it was like a construction vehicle show. We'd be there.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, you know, it's fun. It's fun, isn't it? You know, it gets people through the gate, but then you bring everything else in the back door. It's a bit like your podcast, you know, it's a bit like the fact that it's an easy conversation. You have a lovely articulation, you know, and a great point of view on life. You've, you've, you've lived and died once and we all know you only get, you get two lives, not one. The second of which only begins when you realize the first one is over. And that's the phoenix from the flames. And that's the great inspiration for all of us. Today's a new day, every day above ground, all this kind of stuff. But it's those, do you bring these stories in via the back door? Is that too sort of strategic? Or is it a soft launch? Or is it, does it make it easy for people to get in or whatever? But that's how our festival started as a car festival.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  And now it's still called Car Fest. We thought about changing the name, but it still has great cars. And it now has 21 bands and it has loads of people and you're coming to speak at it. And it's fucking great.

• 38:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's cool.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  It's great.

• 38:16Rich Roll?

  And you, you get like 80, 100,000 people coming through, right? And all the money goes to charity.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  Every single penny goes to charity.

• 38:24Rich Roll?

  Amazing.

• 38:24Adam Skolnick?

  Incredible.

• 38:25Rich Roll?

  So I know the Happy Pair guys, I think are coming.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, Russell Brand's coming, Laura's coming.

• 38:30Rich Roll?

  I don't know where you're gonna throw me in here or there, but I'm, I'm willing and ready to do whatever you want me to do.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  Many haybales that you can sit on and you can, you can erate and you can hypnotize. And you can do whatever the hell you like, Rich Roll.

• 38:44Adam Skolnick?

  Rich, are you still into hypnotism?

• 38:47Rich Roll?

  I had the hypnotism guy on the show. Hypnosis? Right? He told me I was not that hypnotizable though. They do this test where you look up or whatever with your eyeballs and they can tell how receptive you are to hypnosis. That's good. Did you know that? If you listen to my podcast, you would know this.

• 39:01Speaker 02

  I knew that.

• 39:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  His dad taught him. But Ed Hawkins, you know Ed Hawkins has written a book called The Men on Magic Carpets.

• 39:08Rich Roll?

  I don't know this book.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  Do you know this?

• 39:09Rich Roll?

  No.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  Oh, it's so good. So the US military employed hypnosis, mass hypnosis, you know this?

• 39:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it was like the men steering a goat's project, right?

• 39:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, same kind of thing. And from the same seed of the US military. And they brought in some famous sort of psychics from around the world and they didn't care if these guys were frauds or not, because just in case they weren't, because in war, anything is worth it, depending on your point of view.

• 39:38Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  And they brought in all these people and they said, there is something here, there is something here. And what they did was, the book is all about the fact that these super hypnotizers with these superpowers of hypnosis who were employed in the military, who were soldiers, but just happened to have them and they were deployed behind enemy lines to disrupt the vibration of the enemy. They then, at the end of any particular conflict, were unemployed. So sports teams in the US started to employ them, to place them in opposing fans' areas of the stadium to disrupt the vibration of the crowd that would then influence the players

• 40:21Speaker 02

  on the pitch and fuck up their whole gameplay.

• 40:26Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  And it's a real thing. This guy called Ed Hawkins and you would love him.

• 40:30Rich Roll?

  He's like the, he's like the J. Robert Oppenheimer of hypnosis.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 40:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  But also they say that-

• 40:35Rich Roll?

  The Manhattan Project of hypnosis.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  But they say that cinema and, and radio shows and podcasts and literature is all a form of mass hypnosis anyway.

• 40:43Rich Roll?

  Oh, there's no question about that. Storytelling for sure, yeah. There's no question about that.

• 40:47Adam Skolnick?

  Speaking of mass hypnosis, I think there's people running around LA still dressed in pink from Barbie, now they're just filing into SoFi for the, uh, for

• 40:55Speaker 02

  Taylor Swift.

• 40:56Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, I mean, there is something about social media and the group think kind of paradigm, not for good and for bad, that is, there's a hypnosis of the phone, right?

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:04Adam Skolnick?

  For sure.

• 41:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's, we're conducting a massive experiment on

• 41:08Speaker 02

  We just don't know it.

• 41:09Rich Roll?

  The moment. We kind of know it, but we're all signing up for it anyway.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  Some people know.

• 41:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, I'm excited to go to CarFest. What's the website for it and the dates? Because it's not sold out, if anyone's listening.

• 41:21Speaker 02

  Carfest.org. We can always fit more people in. Come and join us, even if you can't stand me, just come anyway.

• 41:29Rich Roll?

  There's 100,000 people there. You don't have to rub elbows with Chris.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  Absolutely, you don't need to do that. But lots of great people there for all the right reasons. And it's just, somebody once said, one of the best things, well, two different people said, two different things. One said, "One of the best things you can do is buy a ticket to help someone you'll never meet, and that's what you'll be doing by coming to this festival." And somebody else said, "Another great thing that a human being can do is give other human beings a reason to get together, and this fulfills both those."

• 41:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's beautiful.

• 42:00Speaker 02

  And you will have a great time.

• 42:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, cool. August 24 to 26?

• 42:05Speaker 02

  August 25 to 27.

• 42:06Rich Roll?

  25 to 27.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  But we'll take you whenever you get there, Rich. If you want to leave early to go to Switzerland, that's coming up, by the way.

• 42:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so, yeah, exactly. So, so after, after I do CarFest, I'm actually headed to Zurich, which I'm very excited about. The reason for that is to visit the headquarters of On, On Running, the running shoe brand. You can see him wearing the On shoes, because we have just, I'm taking this opportunity to announce this incredible, huge, new partnership that we formed with On. So I'm going to go to the headquarters and visit with the folks there, which is, is, you know, honestly, like, I'm happy I'm going to CarFest, but really, I'm going to Zurich.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  It's okay. I'm fine. I'm happy to be the bridesmaid.

• 42:54Rich Roll?

  These guys.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  We'll take whatever, which role we can get.

• 42:56Rich Roll?

  And, you know, this is a relationship. That we've been cultivating for some time. It's a cornerstone partnership in not just the business of this podcast, but I think it's representative of the value set behind the, you know, the why behind everything that we do. And let's face it, this is a commercial enterprise. The show doesn't exist without sponsors. But I think, you know, it's interesting to kind of address this from a broader perspective to kind of understand the decisions that get made about who to align with in this commercial enterprise. If you listen to podcasts, you're used to hearing ads. For a lot of shows, it's just, you know, something that people do.

• 43:41Rich Roll?

  Like they just do ads for, you know, whoever will buy ad space on their show. And the longer that we've been doing this, the more I've come to realize that I don't really want to participate in that game. Obviously, you know, we need sponsors to do what it is that we do, but I'm not interested in just aligning with whoever. I'd much rather have, and this is the consensus with everyone who works here, to have fewer partners, but more in-depth relationships with those partners. So as you might imagine, we're on the receiving end of a lot of inquiries, people who want to advertise on the show. And I would say, we say no to, you know, 95 out of 100 of those requests.

• 44:26Rich Roll?

  We reject them because there isn't, there's just something that's not properly aligned. But every once in a while, somebody shows up where the values align almost perfectly with what we're doing. And I would say, wholeheartedly, that that's the case with ON. This is a company that is really headed in the right direction. They truly are all about trying to get people out and move in the most kind of community-based way. They are an organization that has big designs on the future of products and sustainability and circularity and the materials that they're working with. And they're just a high-vibe group of people who, you know, I just think we can do amazing things together. So I'm really excited to launch into that.

• 45:12Adam Skolnick?

  Can I ask you a question about like the inter workings of how you choose like how you're you say you're hyper selective and obviously the bigger the show has gotten the more corporate opportunities are coming to you right which I would imagine are pretty lucrative so how do you go about what's the what's the way that you kind of these opportunities come to you and how you make the selection in terms of on like how did that come about?

• 45:35Rich Roll?

  So it comes in various ways I mean you get incoming emails all the time and we have a management team that kind of vets all this stuff as a kind of first line of defense so it all has to pass through their kind of machinery before it even gets to me a lot of the incoming but often it's I'm looking at companies that are out there and going after the ones that you know I think would be good partners rather than just reacting to what's out there being intentional like here are the people that I would like to align with and sometimes you know that takes a long time to cultivate those relationships and get to a place where it makes sense on both sides because it's a partnership it isn't just oh you're an advertiser it's like hey I realize like I'm you know I need to

• 46:20Rich Roll?

  enter this relationship from a perspective of how I'm delivering value for the brand it's not just how much money can I get from them so I'll do a 60 second read like yes you hear the ad but what's really going on is this exchange of values and how we can mutually benefit each other through this exchange and so very few companies make it through that or there are some cool companies that are doing really interesting things but maybe there's something off about them let's revisit that a little bit later it's an you know it's kind of like a dynamic organism that's always shifting and evolving.

• 46:57Adam Skolnick?

  Right no I mean it's good that you to hear that because I know personally my parents will buy anything you suggest so the fact that there is a nice like you're really vetting it and it's really not just something that kind of topically aligns but there's a deeper alignment I think is cool.

• 47:13Rich Roll?

  No they're conscious decisions they're value based decisions.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  But people know I know when I'm listening.

• 47:19Rich Roll?

  I hope so.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  No but everybody knows we all know that's that's why that show is called The X Factor everybody knows sometimes we don't even know we know but we know.

• 47:28Adam Skolnick?

  I definitely don't know I know I know.

• 47:32Rich Roll?

  Chris, how's this going for you so far?

• 47:34Speaker 02

  It's hell. It's hell. I'm trying to pretend that it's okay. This is not okay. Even when we got a little bit meaningful before, that's still, none of this is okay. I just came to Los Angeles for 28 days to pretend to live here. That's what I do once a year. I come and pretend that I live here. And I toy with what kind of jobs, what kind of job could I get if I came here? Top of the list so far, I'll do anything here. Not behind the mic, I would come and work on the team. I'd come here and run Russell Brand's company. I would do that. But his company's in the UK, so you'd have to move his company so I could run it.

• 48:08Rich Roll?

  He lives next door to you, basically.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, but so he would have to move everybody just so I could come and get a job here. But then I was thinking about, I could be a pool guy. I'd be very happy being a pool guy up in the hills, up Doheny, up in the Bird Street.

• 48:20Adam Skolnick?

  Was that one of those guys that like spins the arrow at the car dealership?

• 48:24Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 48:24Adam Skolnick?

  Not gonna spin the arrow?

• 48:25Speaker 02

  No, not nowadays. I'm 57. The digits weren't what they, I don't have the dexterity. But at the pool, I could do the pool. It's very meditative. So I could do the pool. I could walk dogs, nice big GMC van with the sliding door. It's a lot about the vehicle for me, because I really want to get a Rivian.

• 48:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  But you can't get a Rivian on Planet Earth at the moment.

• 48:44Adam Skolnick?

  I don't think you can get the Rivian on the dog walker's salary.

• 48:47Speaker 02

  No, I know that, but I would.

• 48:48Rich Roll?

  Well, this is LA. We were talking beforehand, there's certain jobs there. We were thinking about new segment on the podcast, only in LA.

• 48:56Speaker 02

  Tell them about your dog whisperer.

• 48:57Rich Roll?

  Because you can be a superstar pool guy or a dog walker in Los Angeles.

• 49:01Speaker 02

  Or a dog wrangler.

• 49:03Rich Roll?

  Rock star.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  Do you want to talk about the dog wrangler?

• 49:05Rich Roll?

  Tell us about Aki's pack. We have the world's greatest, it's an insult to call him a dog walker. So we have two big dogs and there's a guy in our area called Aki. And he has developed quite the reputation for being the guy to like, take care of your dogs like during the day if you're off at work. And he shows up with a trailer and he'll come into our house and get our dogs at like, 5:30, 6:00 in the morning. And those dogs will join a pack of about 40 dogs and he takes these dogs out on trails that he, he makes his own trails. He goes up in the Santa Monica. Mountains and like bushwax his own trails and he rides a horse bareback and he has all these dogs without leashes.

• 49:48Rich Roll?

  No leashes and he is in total command of these dogs and they have a blast. Just running all over, going in creeks and all this kind of stuff. This guy is an absolute wizard, like he thinks like a dog, he understands dogs. These dogs respect him. He's a very handsome dog, isn't he? And he's a very handsome guy.

• 50:05Adam Skolnick?

  He's legitimately an alpha dog. He's actually an alpha dog.

• 50:08Rich Roll?

  He makes his own dog food, he delivers it to your house. Like this guy is a superstar, right? Sounds like he could afford a Rivian.

• 50:15Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, I wonder how much, I wonder how much he gets paid.

• 50:20Rich Roll?

  That's my Rivian guy. It's not cheap.

• 50:22Adam Skolnick?

  It's not cheap.

• 50:23Rich Roll?

  I think he's doing fine.

• 50:26Rich Roll?

  But my point being like, you know, only in LA would this guy be able to like do his thing and you know, we got a snake wrangler guy like that.

• 50:33Adam Skolnick?

  Who's the snake wrangler?

• 50:35Rich Roll?

  Ah shit, what's his name?

• 50:37Adam Skolnick?

  But what does he do? What's his deal?

• 50:39Rich Roll?

  He dresses up like Crocodile Dundee and he shows up at your house. So if you're, you know, in certain months of the year, like the, like rattlesnakes are a thing. Like it's a real thing. They're all over the place. So if you're going to have like a dinner party outside or you're going to have a wedding at your house or a birthday party, you kind of want to have this guy come over and do a quick check before a bunch of little kids are going to be running around. And invariably, no matter what, he finds a rattlesnake. So I'm convinced that he's releasing them. He brings them with him.

• 51:08Adam Skolnick?

  He has one rattlesnake and he always brings them around.

• 51:11Rich Roll?

  Well, if I'm being charitable, you know, he, he does find them, he'll relocate them and then he does all this. To the next house. Education, like he's got binders and he does stuff with kids where he explains to them what happens if you get bit by a snake and all this stuff like that. Relocation to the next party. Yeah, that's right. So he can release it again. Exactly. It's circular. It's a circular economy. Yeah.

• 51:34Adam Skolnick?

  It really is.

• 51:34Rich Roll?

  I know. So I can see that for you.

• 51:37Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 51:37Rich Roll?

  But you're like, listen, you're locked in in London with Virgin.

• 51:41Speaker 02

  I am.

• 51:41Rich Roll?

  You're not going anywhere anytime soon.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  No, but I think one day we'll end up here. I love it here. I used to live here. I love it.

• 51:47Rich Roll?

  What is it about LA? Because I'm falling in love with London.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  We could do swap if you like.

• 51:53Rich Roll?

  We could do half a year, half a year.

• 51:55Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 51:56Speaker 02

  It'd be fine.

• 51:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  LA, some people say they don't like, you know, America, which is a non-statement. Some people say they don't like Los Angeles, which I think is a non-statement. It's like, because there's some part of everybody and everywhere that is likeable, you know? And what is good and what is bad, you know, it is only thinking that makes it so. Adam, who said that?

• 52:19Adam Skolnick?

  You just said it.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  Shakespeare said it before me, but.

• 52:22Rich Roll?

  Somebody else did beforehand, but that's okay. He's the latest to say it.

• 52:26Adam Skolnick?

  I heard of him.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. For me, it just lights me up. In fact, for a long time, I didn't come here on purpose. And I didn't come here on purpose because I knew it would light me up so much. It would influence my thinking and my style and all this kind of stuff. And because I witnessed other people that had been over here. Because, you know, my wife loves New York. She likes LA, but she really loves New York and likes LA. I like New York and I love LA, you know, it's horses, of course, I think. But I witnessed a lot of people that came over here, then came back to the UK and were too sort of Americana by it all, or Los Anguloed up. And so I left it a while until I was, I think I was 27, 26. I came here with work, first of all, to do a TV thing.

• 53:09Speaker 02

  And 27 years old, came out, fell in love with the whole thing, creative process. People mean it. They get it done. You've got to be any good to be in the room. You know, that great phrase, you know, if you're the smartest guy in the room, you're in the wrong room.

• 53:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 53:21Speaker 02

  Rarely, rarely happens over here. It might happen for one meeting. If it happens for two, you've got to have a serious word with yourself. I loved all the pre-breakfast stuff. You know, we had a few meetings with, well, we were we were hot at the time for a TV show. Bernie Brustin was my manager. You know Bernie Brustin?

• 53:39Rich Roll?

  I didn't know him personally, but I.

• 53:41Speaker 02

  He was my manager, him and Brad Gray.

• 53:43Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 53:44Speaker 02

  And came over here. And, you know, all the things that happened before 10. You know, breakfast meeting here, breakfast meeting there, it's exciting stuff, it's juicy, you know? People can say it's BS. I didn't find it BS at all. I find people who call out other people who are doing things. It's a bit of a lot of projection, you know, you know, because they're not doing anything.

• 54:06Rich Roll?

  Well, it's easy to make fun of Los Angeles and, you know, there's a lot of problems here in traffic. But I think most people's experience is they fly into LAX, which is the most, the world's most embarrassing airport. It's just fucking horrible, right? And then they're on the 405, they're stuck in traffic. It's, you know, crowded, it takes forever to get from one side of town to the next. So it's an easy, low-hanging target.

• 54:28Adam Skolnick?

  Also, it's, it's, the problem with LA, as someone who's a visitor, who doesn't have a connection here, is that it's kind of obtuse, it's hard to wrap your head around, it's like this massive kind of concrete dragon.

• 54:40Rich Roll?

  There's no locus to anything that's going on.

• 54:41Adam Skolnick?

  Especially for years when downtown was like a no-go zone, like there was just nothing culturally interesting happening down there, really, in terms of like entertainment or, or restaurants. There was some interesting kind of niches, but there wasn't really like, it wasn't really the happening spot. Now, there's a lot more happening in all the different neighborhoods. But it's just hard to kind of know where to go when and what's happening because it's just so big and there's like, so you've carved out Venice, right? Venice is your spot.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:08Adam Skolnick?

  And so you'll notice that you probably won't leave Venice too much, right?

• 55:12Speaker 02

  No, I mean, not at all because we don't have a car while we're here, so, right.

• 55:15Adam Skolnick?

  So that's a good way to carve out a time in LA is to pick your spot.

• 55:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, and just, you know, get into the, to the detail of it all, you know? And live, pretend, you know, we're very fortunate, I get four weeks holiday in the summer. So we can, we rent a house, we don't stay in a hotel, so we can pretend to live here. It's, I'm sure it's nothing at all like living here, even from having lived here in the past, but that was up in the hills. But, um, but I, I love it. I think the difference in the demographic, the people you can see, if you take a run on the boardwalk at 6:00 AM, between 6:00 AM and 5:00 AM, in five minutes, you've seen so many different kinds of people. Different genres, different bents, different status or whatever that means, you know? But, you, you know, the, the only thing to fear is, is fear itself, I think.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  You know, they, they say, but isn't that, isn't that a police helicopter hovering over your house at 500 feet for most of the day? I say, yeah, how much would that cost? Security wise, who's got that?

• 56:12Adam Skolnick?

  That's a first step.

• 56:12Speaker 02

  Meghan and Harry don't have that.

• 56:14Adam Skolnick?

  No.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  And they're paying through the nose. This is for free. It's the safest neighborhood in the world. Do you know what I mean?

• 56:21Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, it's for free. You said something before we started about Prito's law of living. Prito?

• 56:27Speaker 02

  Prito's principle.

• 56:28Adam Skolnick?

  Prito's principle.

• 56:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:30Adam Skolnick?

  Talk to us about that, because you were saying that there's something on the, like, your experience of running on the boardwalk, surfing there, and then like seeing LA come to life in the morning, kind of made you think of it?

• 56:40Speaker 02

  Well, Prito's principle is the 80/20 rule, basically. There's different interpretations of it, but 80/20. So for example, in business, in life, friends, whatever, energy, so 20% of your activity gives you 80% of the sort of end product of whatever that may be. 20% of your customers sometimes give you 80% of your revenue. 80% of your customers only give you 20% of your revenue, and often 80% or even 100% of your problems. So it's about identifying the most efficient energy you can put into various lanes of your life that will give you the greatest, the greatest sort of payback.

• 57:18Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 57:18Speaker 02

  And you can do it with people, and you can do it with energy. And like, for example, in the morning, you get up, well begun is half done. You know, so you wake up, somebody said the other day, I woke up, you know, and when I was living this life, which wasn't great, I had all, I woke up, I'm my, I'd just been dumped, and I didn't like my boss, and I didn't have any money, and I was about to get thrown out of my apartment. Well, actually, no, that, that's not what happened. What happened was, I woke up and opened my eyes. That's actually what happened. But the story goes blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that's the opposite of well begun is half done. But you get up in the morning, you do something great, you set your intention for 10 minutes, or you have a bit of a moment of gratitude, that's already great. You've already flicked the right switch, not the wrong switch.

• 58:01Speaker 02

  And then you go for a run, or you do some stretching, or you drink some water, and that's even better. So if you front load the day, or front load your business, or front load your friendship, or your relationship, or front load your body with something that's great for you, then the rest of the day, it's a bit like living in LA and having all those pre-breakfast meetings. The rest of the day can be administration and bureaucracy to sort of, to sort of varnish this, the beautiful thing that you've just created. And often you find that we are expending a lot of, the 100% of our energy on Zero outcome. And so pre-dis principle is all about that. It's eighty twenty or it can be ninety nine one. And when you're exercising and or you're gardening, it probably if you see exercising and training is different.

• 58:46Speaker 02

  So if you exercise, you're exercising. If you're training, you're training via exercise for an event, which is useful, isn't it? Because it gives you a sort of something to aim for. But if you are looking, for example, for the blue zones, Dan Buena. So one of the number one activities in the blue zone is to garden, because garden is movement.

• 59:09Speaker 02

  But it's also a community. But sometimes when you exercise, all you have left, from the moment you finish exercising, all that happens sometimes is guilt. Guilt by beginning to destroy the hour of exercise that you've just achieved by consuming or by sitting down or by doing something else. Whereas if you garden, you get the exercise and after the exercise, you also have a garden. So that's like that's like ninety nine one.

• 59:34Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 59:34Speaker 02

  Because you're it's it's giving you everything and costing you nothing other than your attention and your energy and your time. And, you know, what do they say? Energy grows where attention goes. And the better the attention that you focus on, the more it gives birth to more of that stuff. That magnetism of stuff that makes you want to not even want to be a better person when you automatically start to be better. And when you cross that threshold of where things that were good for you became an effort. And you didn't look forward to doing them, even though you wanted the outcome. That moment when you miss a workout and you feel like you did before, not wanting to do a workout.

• 1:00:19Speaker 02

  You have the regret of not having worked out. You start to feel off when you don't work out.

• 1:00:24Rich Roll?

  Sure.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  And you cross the threshold, you go. This is the other side of the fence that people talk about.

• 1:00:31Rich Roll?

  You want to take the seat?

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:00:33Adam Skolnick?

  Let's go get a drink.

• 1:00:34Rich Roll?

  You're right. We shouldn't have three people, so I'm gonna leave and you can sit here.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  Can I actually go and watch the rest of it now?

• 1:00:41Adam Skolnick?

  You can.

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  I would love to do that.

• 1:00:42Rich Roll?

  You would? Well, we're gonna take a quick ad break, anyway.

• 1:00:46Speaker 02

  Can I just apologize to all fellow Rollon fans? This was a mistake.

• 1:00:51Rich Roll?

  Look at that. He just drops like a wisdom bomb and then declares that it was a mistake.

• 1:00:58Adam Skolnick?

  I love it, man. How great to have the number one Rollon fan sitting with us.

• 1:01:02Rich Roll?

  Unbelievable.

• 1:01:03Adam Skolnick?

  And then leaving us like with a puff of smoke. Destroying it.

• 1:01:07Rich Roll?

  Thank you, Chris. If we were gonna have a third wheel, he is the guy to do it.

• 1:01:11Adam Skolnick?

  Oh, God, yeah. I think, yes.

• 1:01:13Rich Roll?

  So, let's take a quick break and we'll be back with more.

• 1:01:24Rich Roll?

  We're back. We're leaving Chris's chair open in the event that he might want to return. We'll see. It's up to him.

• 1:01:30Adam Skolnick?

  Can I just switch seats sometimes?

• 1:01:34Rich Roll?

  Tell Jason so he can make sure the mic is hot. No, you cannot.

• 1:01:39Adam Skolnick?

  There's a lot of rules around here lately.

• 1:01:40Rich Roll?

  Well, yeah. Like Pareto's Principle?

• 1:01:45Adam Skolnick?

  Pareto? Pareto.

• 1:01:48Rich Roll?

  That's your new rule, right?

• 1:01:50Adam Skolnick?

  Well, it's now called the Chris Evans Rule for Living.

• 1:01:55Rich Roll?

  There you go. Yeah, that was a mic drop moment. For the old school Rollon hardcoreers, we're gonna do a little bit of news, share a little streaming recs, I guess, right? We're gonna keep it breezy, but we can't not talk about Sean Conway breaking the Iron Cowboys' record for most consecutive Ironmans. This guy clocked off 105. Chris was just saying during the break that he came on twice. Came on twice on Chris's show, right before he broke the record or right after? The day of. And then he kept going. What was interesting is, obviously, he wanted to do 102, because then he would eclipse James's record. But then after that, it was like a day-by-day

• 1:02:39Rich Roll?

  thing. He would wake up and decide whether he was going to keep going. And he kept going. And then, on the 105th day, he was sort of like, okay, I'm pretty sure this is the last time I'm gonna do it. But he knocked off 105 of them. This is a really interesting guy. He's from Zimbabwe. He lives in Wales. He started this thing off on April 10. So again, an Ironman, every single day, not missing, not missing, no days off, 105 total.

• 1:03:07Rich Roll?

  Also interesting is that, after James set his record, back in June of 2022, Sean started, that was his first attempt at doing this. He was gonna try to break James's record. And I think he got like, six in, and he got injured and had to call it off. And it was like, eh, maybe not so easy, right? But, you know, to his credit, he basically healed up and got right back on the horse and went after it again. And he seemed to do it, like, these guys, I haven't met Sean, I mean, Chris knows Sean, and I guess Sean's gonna be at CarFest, right? Which is cool. I'm gonna try to do a podcast with him in London. But just based on what I have intuited from following him on Instagram, he seems pretty chill. Like,

• 1:03:49Rich Roll?

  he doesn't have that same kind of Iron Cowboy, super intensity. He's got little kids, seems like a super nice guy. He kind of got fit in the process of doing it. He has a before-and-after picture on Instagram right now, where the image of him without a shirt on before he began, he just looked like a dude, right? He's all ripped up at the end of it. But, I don't know, there seems to be a more laid-back kind of attitude about doing this.

• 1:04:15Adam Skolnick?

  Did he have a team, like, the same idea, like a Peloton for the cycle, for the bike?

• 1:04:20Rich Roll?

  It seemed like he did, yeah. I mean, probably, it didn't, it didn't gain momentum like James, where there were like, thousands of people at the end. But I think he had a core crew of people who were showing up, pretty much.

• 1:04:31Adam Skolnick?

  It's an amazing accomplishment. I think, the reason James thing took off around here in the States, I think, was because there were so many people just going there and doing their first Ironman with him, and it became like, a community event, you know? Partly because... He had to do the run slow and that made it more accessible. So it's almost like the injury that James had that forced him to do it a certain way. Be interesting to talk to Sean.

• 1:04:53Rich Roll?

  It would be slow no matter what, though.

• 1:04:54Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:04:54Rich Roll?

  You're doing those marathons pretty slow. If you're doing it 105 days, yeah, in a row. Yeah, so it's like it opens itself up to kind of a community experience, I think.

• 1:05:05Adam Skolnick?

  Fair enough, fair enough.

• 1:05:06Rich Roll?

  But I'm looking forward to meeting him and learning more and hopefully sharing it with all of you on the show.

• 1:05:11Adam Skolnick?

  Very exciting.

• 1:05:12Rich Roll?

  What else do you want to talk about? Are we gonna, are we gonna talk about? We're not gonna talk about the superconductor, are we?

• 1:05:17Adam Skolnick?

  No, maybe not.

• 1:05:18Rich Roll?

  Let's keep it light.

• 1:05:19Adam Skolnick?

  Let's keep it light. You know, did you hear about Kristin Harilla? I know it's not on here, but she's the Norwegian climber that just broke Nirmal Purja's record for getting to the top of all the 8,000 meter peaks in the shortest amount of time. I think it's just over three months. You know, NIMs did six months, which took a record from seven years to like six months. And then Kristin was trying to do it last year and got stymied, couldn't get into Tibet. And so finally got the paperwork. So she still did all 14 of, or I think there's 14 of them. Yeah, 14 of the 8,000 meter peaks, but she couldn't do them in the time. So she didn't get the record. And so she, she basically got her paperwork lined up and did her first one in Tibet.

• 1:06:04Adam Skolnick?

  So got that done and then fired them all off. And so she broke NIM's record. She originally financed this attempt by selling her condo, I think it was, or her, or her home in Norway. I talked to her once when I was doing the Lhakpa Sherpa story. And I talked to her about how hard it is for female climbers, you know, and mountaineers especially, to, to make a living and to get sponsorship. And so she's a perfect example. You haven't really heard about this, even though it's big news in Norway. It didn't really hit. Part of the, that's why we love.

• 1:06:36Rich Roll?

  This is why, like, maybe you would have read about this in the New York Times sports section.

• 1:06:41Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:06:41Rich Roll?

  In an article written by Adam Skolnick.

• 1:06:43Adam Skolnick?

  There was an article about her when she was doing, going for the record the first time. And then, you know, there was that story. And so I would have thought they'd do a follow up, but part of the reason they didn't is because it's kind of in flux over there. But yeah, exactly. So I just wanted to give her props because we've covered, I've covered NIMs before. And I just want to give Kristin props. Pretty amazing. And you can find her on Instagram and find all about her. And incredible accomplishment for Kristin. So congratulations to her again. And then. Like, we should also mention, because in the past, this was never mentioned, she wasn't alone. She had a whole team, and one member of her team, Tengen Sherpa, was kind of her primary partner in crime on this. A guide, helped fix everything that she needed to be done.

• 1:07:27Adam Skolnick?

  Right-hand man, they took every step together, and they did L14 Peaks together, so he also did it in 92 days. So it's not just Kristen's record now, it's Kristen and Tengen Sherpa's record.

• 1:07:39Rich Roll?

  Dumb question, but how come they don't share the record then? How come it's her?

• 1:07:44Adam Skolnick?

  I think they do. I think they do, that's where I misspoke, I think they do share it, you know? But, you know, I think they do, yeah.

• 1:07:50Rich Roll?

  Interesting. Well, congrats, that's an amazing accomplishment.

• 1:07:54Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, congrats to both.

• 1:07:56Rich Roll?

  Are we gonna do a little summer entertainment roundup?

• 1:07:58Adam Skolnick?

  Let's do it, let's keep it, let's do a speed round.

• 1:08:00Rich Roll?

  We'll keep it quick.

• 1:08:01Adam Skolnick?

  Speed round.

• 1:08:02Rich Roll?

  Off the top, we are in the middle of a strike right now. Writers Guild is striking, the Screen Actors Guild is striking.

• 1:08:10Adam Skolnick?

  I know.

• 1:08:10Rich Roll?

  Are we allowed to recommend stuff?

• 1:08:12Adam Skolnick?

  Well, that's the thing.

• 1:08:13Rich Roll?

  We support labor, let's just say that upfront.

• 1:08:16Adam Skolnick?

  We support labor, I'm sorry, I did do, like, an event for Netflix around Devious Breath.

• 1:08:23Rich Roll?

  Are you some kind of, like, scab?

• 1:08:25Adam Skolnick?

  I didn't.

• 1:08:26Rich Roll?

  But you recorded that, also, like, being in a documentary is not a SAG thing. You weren't appearing as an actor.

• 1:08:32Adam Skolnick?

  But like, you know.

• 1:08:32Rich Roll?

  But you're with Big, you're with Big Streamer.

• 1:08:34Adam Skolnick?

  The cast of Up and I Walked.

• 1:08:36Rich Roll?

  You're in the pocket, you're in the, you're a shill for, for Big Streaming.

• 1:08:40Adam Skolnick?

  I'm very cheap, I come very cheap. I did do an event, like Netflix did a screening in LA, and I did an event to support Laura McGann, the filmmaker. And so, yeah, I did that, and I was on, then Slate did a story about how, like, they felt, like, the critic felt manipulated by Devious Breath or something. And so then I was on Canadian Public Radio, supporting it, so I have done two things now, to support Netflix during the strike, and I have felt a little bit funny about that, I will say.

• 1:09:07Rich Roll?

  Interesting. Yeah, this is like, is a weird, like, internal conflict in the Skolneck value set.

• 1:09:14Adam Skolnick?

  Yes, but I also, as much as I support the strike and I support the actors and the writers, I mean, let's not make it out like they're coal miners, okay? Let's not.

• 1:09:23Rich Roll?

  Hey, now you're getting, you're treading on thin ice right now, buddy. There's a lot of, there's a lot of struggling talent out there right now. There's good reason for these strikes right now. It's gonna be interesting to see what happens. There was a big meeting last week. I thought that perhaps some resolution was on the horizon, but it remains to be seen. In the middle, in, you know, in, or let me just say that again. In the meantime, yes, we support the writers, we support the actors. I hope that they can find a way to resolve this quickly because we love our content. In the meantime, I think we can still celebrate the product of their labor without being

• 1:09:58Adam Skolnick?

  100%. I think a lot of, a lot of people are.

• 1:10:00Rich Roll?

  You know, it's interesting though, sorry to step on your words, but, you know, a lot of, like, actors won't do podcasts now. Well, they won't do podcasts to promote a certain movie or show, right? They won't do interviews, they won't do press junkets, they're not showing up at premieres. So it'll be interesting to see what happens in Podcastlandia because there's a lot of celebrity-driven shows out there that are reliant on booking, you know, actors as their guests. And I think there's carve-outs or cut-outs, I think there's a, there's something, you know, kind of in-between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law in terms of what they can and can't do. Like, if you're promoting a book, you can come on and do that as long as you're kind

• 1:10:43Rich Roll?

  of talking about that, but you can't come on any kind of press outlet to promote like a show or, or a movie.

• 1:10:50Adam Skolnick?

  Right, right, right. It's all in, in, in flux, right? And you try to get like approval or something from the union? It is interesting to see, like, and not only have, I think, like, broader view on the strike, I made my joke, but like, it actually has kind of kick-started a wave of labor solidarity. And in the wake, there has been baristas that are being organized, the UPS almost went on strike and was averted at the last minute, the LA City workers are now going on strike on Tuesday. The airport's gonna be all but shut down. You know, like, the hotel workers here in LA and in San Francisco, they're striking all over the place.

• 1:11:33Adam Skolnick?

  I think, I forget how many, tens of thousands of workers are striking because they can't get a fair wage and a living wage. That was the crux of my joke. But really, in reality, the writers were first kind of on this front line. So it's interesting to see writers take the lead in labor. Just as a writer, I find that hilarious.

• 1:11:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and we're gonna turn into France.

• 1:11:56Adam Skolnick?

  Yes. But I mean, that's a, that's kind of an unexpected outcome of this, of like, really kind of kickstarting labor. And I think that's good because we have this society that's cleaving, the haves and the have-nots. And it's important to like, labor was the reason that when we first had this problem in the beginning of industrialization, it was unions that solved the problem and created the middle class, so, yeah.

• 1:12:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:21Rich Roll?

  What an intro into streaming recommendations.

• 1:12:23Adam Skolnick?

  Oh, by the way, watch The Bear.

• 1:12:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, exactly, right? That's what I'm getting at. The Bear is back. Not exactly a news flash, it's been out for a while, but, you know, longtime listeners of Roll On know how much we love The Bear. Season two was released recently. I will admit, after the first, I don't know, two episodes of season two, I was like, hmm, I don't know, man. I don't know if they've, they're gonna be able to keep this thing at the level that I had come to, you know, expect after season one. And then it just kicked into a new gear and went insane. And I think that that show, this show, The Bear, is one of the finest television shows ever made. Like, season two of The Bear is just off the rails. Good, I loved it.

• 1:13:07Adam Skolnick?

  I love it too. I, I prefer the first season just because it was so fresh and so interesting, and it felt, felt like so vital. And this, there's episodes, this season two is great. So I'm not, I'm not meaning to disparage it, but like, I still, I think, prefer as a piece of work, season one. But I think I'm always that guy that likes that. I liked Atlanta, season one. I kind of like the first iteration because it's the purest kind of distillation. But I will say, Phish's, I watched it again last night in preparation because we might talk about it. And it's like shades of Goodfellas good. I mean, it is on a level of production and, and in every facet, arc direction, obviously the dialogue and the script, the acting. I mean, Jamie Lee Curtis. I mean, is this the year of Jamie Lee Curtis?

• 1:13:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah, she's off the rails. I mean, this is a tour de force episode. I think it's episode six of season two. It's called Fishes. Are we doing spoilers or not?

• 1:13:59Adam Skolnick?

  It's been out a long time. We don't have to say everything, but like, go ahead, speak your mind.

• 1:14:05Rich Roll?

  I mean, I'm not gonna go out of my way to spoil anything, but if you're, if you don't want anything to be spoiled, maybe fast forward through this part. Fishes is basically a, an episode that focuses on Christmas dinner and all kinds of characters come together and it's just insanity ensues. Like, it's just chaos on a, on a whole new level of what you thought was possible. Rendered on film, it's hilarious, it's poignant, it's heartbreaking. And Jamie Lee Curtis plays the matriarch, matriarch of the Burzatos and she's the matriarch of insanity. Her performance is, is, is really something to behold. It requires a couple viewings to really understand what's going on. Every character plays this very unique

• 1:14:48Rich Roll?

  role. And I think anybody who has any kind of challenging extended family situation, who knows what it's like to go home into a perilous holiday dinner event, will find some way to relate to one of the characters. Cause they're all archetypes in their own right.

• 1:15:09Adam Skolnick?

  Well, also, like, if you've ever had a mom that has thrown a dinner party and it was their idea, and then like is losing their mind as they put together this amazing thing and is like, is wondering why no one's helping and all that. That's, this is like that 10x. Like, this is the crux.

• 1:15:24Rich Roll?

  Right. It's, yeah, it's at, it's at 11, the whole thing. But the, yeah, the person who's like, leave me alone, you know, I'm going to deliver this meal because, you know, love is correlated closely with these, you know, what I'm, what I, what you're going to be eating. And like, so there's so much intensity going into that. While also saying, why isn't anyone helping me? Like, it's like, come here, I need help. No, go away, leave me alone. Like, just to, you know, like. Let's just say I know a few people like this.

• 1:15:54Adam Skolnick?

  My mom used to get uptight at the end of these things and I'd be like, I'd be like, I think to myself, my mom probably gonna listen to this, I think, I think to myself, well, this was your idea, like this.

• 1:16:05Rich Roll?

  Right, no one asked you to do this.

• 1:16:08Adam Skolnick?

  This whole party was your idea.

• 1:16:09Rich Roll?

  I know, I know. So, you know, I've had many versions of this dinner that are probably at a six, or maybe a six and a half, and this is at an 11.

• 1:16:18Adam Skolnick?

  It's just amazing.

• 1:16:19Rich Roll?

  And it's just, it's a murderer's row of talent, like the co-stars that show up in this episode. You got Bob Odenkirk, Jon Bernthal, who's just electric, Sarah Paulson, the cool cousin who got out, who comes back to let everyone know that there is an exit out of this, you know, this insane asylum. And then low-key John Mulaney, just like stealing the entire episode with his, you know, deadpan humor. I just, I mean, it's extraordinary.

• 1:16:47Adam Skolnick?

  I thought it's the best thing I've seen him in. Like, it's the most fun, I mean, I, obviously he's a great talent, but like.

• 1:16:51Rich Roll?

  Well, he's never, has he ever even had the opportunity to do something like that before?

• 1:16:56Adam Skolnick?

  Like, that's what I mean, like, and it's so period, and like, the art is so good, and everything speaks to a moment, and it speaks to the pathos, you understand why Carmy is Carmy, you understand why Richie is Richie. You see it all kind of happen, it's like, it speaks to everything you've been wondering about these people. That's what's so, it's so rooted.

• 1:17:13Rich Roll?

  It's the origin story for all of these characters, and, you know, Julie hadn't watched The Bear, so after I finished season two, I went back and started from the beginning of season one. And you see from the very first episode, everything is established. The, the, the drawing of the Bear Restaurant is like on the wall, that Bernthal, you know, like the exchange with Bernthal in, in, in Fishes. And, you know, the, the clock motif, like, that gets hammered home with Jamie Lee Curtis and the, you know, the alarm that's constantly going off, and the attention to like, the ticking clock and the pressure cooker of what it's like to be in a kitchen to prepare a meal, like, all those seeds are planted

• 1:17:54Rich Roll?

  in the early episodes of season one, and then when you get to Fishes, you're like, oh, you see it all, like, played out.

• 1:18:00Adam Skolnick?

  It's beautiful. It's, it's, it is beautiful, and, and, and, and like. Like a bomb going off like it's like it's amazing. I, I, and I agree with you like John Bernfall like, I mean, come on, like, why isn't he in everything? Like unbelievable.

• 1:18:14Rich Roll?

  He's, he increasingly is in everything.

• 1:18:16Adam Skolnick?

  Yes, there's a reason. But like, I mean, incredible. The emotion that these actors go through and you, and I just want to say one thing about what I think is interesting about this show, and I'm not like a film school guy and I'm not that well versed in structure in terms of, of, of production, but I, I've noticed a couple of things, uh, two different shows, but the HBO show, it's, uh, Euphoria has this thing where it's like reality at 120% and because of that, it's so original and no one really else is doing that. Like reality at 120, 125% is so intense and you feel that as a viewer. I don't particularly with that show, enjoy the experience of watching it, but I could see why people are just captivated

• 1:18:59Adam Skolnick?

  by it because it's so original. And in this show, obviously they're not the first people to do it. The creator is not the first person to do it, but I feel like when I'm watching it, the actors know to step on each other's lines. And so I don't know how it's written on the page, but they're, they're on purpose, not listening, not waiting for the other actor to finish. And that gives it such a, even though it's unnatural, like if you ask them to do it, they're probably their first chance. They'd want to give everyone space to say their lines and they'd want to listen and that's how you think about it. But in reality, people are just, it's messy, especially in an environment like that. That episode, it's, it's throughout the show, but that episode really shows it and it creates this

• 1:19:39Adam Skolnick?

  speed and, and organic feel and power. And I just think it's really interesting because you don't see it in a lot of, in a lot of shows. And I think that's one of the hidden secrets to this show.

• 1:19:51Rich Roll?

  But it's authentic to the dynamic of this family.

• 1:19:54Adam Skolnick?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:19:54Rich Roll?

  It's not like an artificial technique.

• 1:19:56Adam Skolnick?

  No, no, no.

• 1:19:57Rich Roll?

  It's just like, this is how these people communicate.

• 1:19:59Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, right, right, right.

• 1:20:00Rich Roll?

  No one's listening to anybody. Everybody's kind of set in their way. They're all shouting at each other.

• 1:20:04Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 1:20:05Rich Roll?

  You know, it's, it's bananas. Um, how do you feel about the facts?

• 1:20:10Adam Skolnick?

  Wait.

• 1:20:11Rich Roll?

  The facts. Come on.

• 1:20:13Adam Skolnick?

  I love the facts. Come on. The baseball cards?

• 1:20:16Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, Matty Matheson, who plays one of the facts, the main facts guy.

• 1:20:20Adam Skolnick?

  The main facts.

• 1:20:21Rich Roll?

  He's in truth, a, uh, like a Toronto chef, like a celebrated Toronto chef. He's not an actor. I think he did some stuff with Vice. You know, the heavyset guy with the tattoo, all the tattoos and all that kind of stuff?

• 1:20:33Adam Skolnick?

  I love him.

• 1:20:34Rich Roll?

  He's not really an actor. And I guess the guy who played the other fact, that was his first time acting. He was, he was a crew member. I don't know what he did on the crew or whatever.

• 1:20:43Adam Skolnick?

  They're great together. They're absolutely great together.

• 1:20:46Rich Roll?

  They're hitting up Mulaney for like 500 bucks for their baseball card thing and they're like, do you have 500? He's like, yes, I have 500. I'm a 43 year old man.

• 1:20:59Rich Roll?

  Incredible stuff.

• 1:21:00Adam Skolnick?

  It's amazing.

• 1:21:00Rich Roll?

  But I will say, as, as wild as Fish's was, the following episode, Forks, is definitely my favorite in the whole series. This is the episode where Richie goes to Stage at a, um, at a, you know, fancy restaurant and he goes on this arc. And that character played by Evan Moss Bakarok is just, I mean, that guy is lord. Like his performance in that episode and, you know, the kind of realization that he has and his ability to understand that his gift is service. And it comes through the messenger in that is the guy who got sober.

• 1:21:42Rich Roll?

  Who says, I'm here to serve and I'm grateful to be here. Like, and he conveys to Richie, how his life had changed as a result of sobriety. And Richie is in a place where he's able to hear that and understand that he too, uh, has that thing that makes him come alive. And that light bulb moment for him changes everything when he returns to the bear and is able to participate. In that community on a whole nother level than he could have previously. And I just thought there was so much heart and beauty in that episode. Like, that's the one that, as exciting as Fishes is, the episode that follows is the one that really has stayed with me.

• 1:22:25Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, so one is like a rock and roll concert in the 70s, or like a wild funk party. And the other one is like an ambient kind of like experience. Because I think, is that the same one that they're in Copenhagen, is it go back and forth between Copenhagen? Or is that just a different, I think, mixing too?

• 1:22:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's been like a couple of months since I watched it. Well, there was the pastry chef guy who goes to Copenhagen.

• 1:22:49Adam Skolnick?

  Maybe that's a different episode. But this one too, it feels a lot more, it's more ambient. It's like, it's not like as kinetic. You feel that it's all internal.

• 1:22:58Rich Roll?

  But you can't maintain that level of intensity every episode. So I think going into season two, they realized like, hey, we gotta let this thing breathe a little bit.

• 1:23:06Adam Skolnick?

  I agree.

• 1:23:07Rich Roll?

  We can choose our moments, we can have our fishes, but what are we doing in between? And that's the real heart and connective tissue that makes it all come together. And it's like, it's like a recipe in the kitchen. Like how they're baking all these episodes to create this, you know, this extraordinary dish.

• 1:23:26Adam Skolnick?

  Yes.

• 1:23:28Rich Roll?

  That I think is very thoughtful and intentional in how they do it.

• 1:23:32Adam Skolnick?

  Hundred percent. It's like, it shows the range of the creative power in this team that put it together. Because the fact that it's all compelling, but they're all delivered so differently. Usually, there's a flavor. You know, this one, it can go any different way.

• 1:23:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And I don't know that I've ever seen another television show where, from the jump, from the get go, I'm immediately so invested in these characters and emotionally connected to them. That's like a magic trick. So Christopher Storer, who created the show, has done an extraordinary job with this series. I can't wait to see what happens in season three.

• 1:24:04Adam Skolnick?

  And Richie's, Richie's kind of big moment at the end of Forks, there's a great cameo.

• 1:24:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah. We won't spoil it.

• 1:24:12Adam Skolnick?

  No, fantastic.

• 1:24:13Rich Roll?

  One scene.

• 1:24:14Adam Skolnick?

  I mean, they're great together.

• 1:24:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah, incredible. Incredible stuff. Is there anything that needs to be said about Barbenheimer?

• 1:24:20Adam Skolnick?

  Yes.

• 1:24:21Rich Roll?

  Or has it all been written and said, Adam?

• 1:24:23Adam Skolnick?

  Well, did you read about Nolan's reported deal?

• 1:24:25Rich Roll?

  No.

• 1:24:26Adam Skolnick?

  He gets 20% of first gross? That's quite a deal he made for himself. I think Oppenheimer is at 500 million, Barbie's at 1 billion. Collectively Nolan and Gerwig have saved the in theater movie experience, the relevancy of movies.

• 1:24:44Rich Roll?

  Do we feel bad for Tom Cruise?

• 1:24:46Adam Skolnick?

  No, you can't feel bad for Tom Cruise.

• 1:24:48Rich Roll?

  But I think he's in the background, like gnashing his teeth, wondering how come he's not the lead story?

• 1:24:55Adam Skolnick?

  If he is, then I do feel bad for him.

• 1:24:58Rich Roll?

  I bet he is. He's so goddamn competitive, that guy.

• 1:25:01Adam Skolnick?

  No way. He's like right now.

• 1:25:03Rich Roll?

  Well, I know he was pissed about the IMAX windowing because he wanted Mission Impossible to have have kind of purview with the IMAX theaters. And that went to Oppenheimer and Mission Impossible was amazing, but then once it was the Barbenheimer thing, like it was almost like we forgot that Mission Impossible happened and this guy rode his motorcycle off a mountain.

• 1:25:23Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, he's probably off base jumping somewhere, so I'm not sure he's paying attention to us. But I will say this, I'm on his team when it comes to.

• 1:25:30Rich Roll?

  You don't think he's listening, Adam?

• 1:25:31Adam Skolnick?

  No. When it comes to why is Oppenheimer on IMAX? I'm 100% with Tom Cruise. Like I just, I watched it. I'm not saying it's not a good movie. I am wondering why.

• 1:25:44Rich Roll?

  Here comes the hot take.

• 1:25:44Adam Skolnick?

  I am wondering why a movie that is centered around business meetings is on IMAX. I just don't understand it. Like I legit, I mean, the one visual was great. I legit don't understand why it had to be on IMAX.

• 1:25:58Rich Roll?

  I respectfully disagree. I was at the very first screening of Oppenheimer at the Chinese theater Thursday at 5 o'clock. I was in like the fourth row at the IMAX 70 millimeter experience. Now let me tell you something. If you are at the very first screening of Oppenheimer at the Chinese theater at the IMAX 70 millimeter experience, this is a theater full of nerds. Like this is the ultimate film nerd audience.

• 1:26:27Rich Roll?

  Come to life.

• 1:26:27Adam Skolnick?

  Yes.

• 1:26:28Rich Roll?

  Right? And I could not have been happier or more thrilled to be there.

• 1:26:34Rich Roll?

  Tyler and Trapper bought tickets for, this was like the Father's Day gift. So I cut out of the studio early to make it over there to do. And it's like, you're sitting down and everyone's, well, I'm gonna watch it in 70 millimeter. But then tomorrow, I'm gonna go see it at the other theater so I can compare, you know, like every

• 1:26:47Adam Skolnick?

  Wow.

• 1:26:48Rich Roll?

  Film nerd talk.

• 1:26:48Adam Skolnick?

  Wow, that's, that's big time.

• 1:26:50Rich Roll?

  All of his like. But I can tell you that the tallness of the IMAX screen really changes the experience. And I think this film is a masterpiece. And I will never forget the experience of being in that theater to see it for the very first time. So I disagree with you. I think it's a tour de force of a movie.

• 1:27:09Adam Skolnick?

  Okay.

• 1:27:10Rich Roll?

  And I think it deserves to be seen in that format. And yes, there are a lot of white men talking in rooms.

• 1:27:17Adam Skolnick?

  Lot of meetings.

• 1:27:18Rich Roll?

  But who else could make that utterly riveting?

• 1:27:23Rich Roll?

  Other than Christopher Nolan? I mean, he created a thriller out of like men having conversations.

• 1:27:28Adam Skolnick?

  A lot of meetings.

• 1:27:29Rich Roll?

  There's the Trinity Test. That's exciting.

• 1:27:31Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, that's great. I like that part.

• 1:27:33Rich Roll?

  Yes, I think.

• 1:27:34Adam Skolnick?

  Killian just looks at you. He, like, there's a lot of Killian looking at the camera.

• 1:27:37Rich Roll?

  Well, he's, I mean, he, I mean, that performance.

• 1:27:41Adam Skolnick?

  Okay.

• 1:27:41Rich Roll?

  He's in a whole, he's at a whole other level now.

• 1:27:43Adam Skolnick?

  People are gonna think that I'm just badmouthing it. I'm not going to. Robert Downey Jr. is amazing. I think Emily Blunt is fantastic. You'll see them both get nominated. I think obviously Killian's gonna get nominated. Um, I thought, I love Matt Damon and everything he's in. So this is not me not liking it. I'm just gonna say there was snoring in my theater. As many nerds as were in your theater, there was, there was audible snoring in my theater.

• 1:28:05Rich Roll?

  For the last hour?

• 1:28:07Adam Skolnick?

  Just periodic, periodic snoring.

• 1:28:10Rich Roll?

  Interesting.

• 1:28:11Adam Skolnick?

  As you might expect in a long meeting.

• 1:28:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Interesting. Uh, yeah, I did, that was not my experience.

• 1:28:17Adam Skolnick?

  No.

• 1:28:19Rich Roll?

  I loved everything about it. Uh, I thought it was interesting. There's just unreal performances. The filmmaking is extraordinary. It gives us the meme we didn't know that we needed. That, that image of Benny Safdie lathering himself with sunscreen and putting on the goggles.

• 1:28:35Adam Skolnick?

  That was very funny.

• 1:28:35Rich Roll?

  Is, is the ultimate meme that you could throw up on the internet when you're, you know, you know, that, that trope of like, there's drama happening, I'm gonna grab my popcorn? This is now, uh, market corrected that. You can just put that image of Benny Safdie there like, I'm getting ready to see the thing.

• 1:28:52Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, and then Einstein, I loved him, that was great. And, uh, but one thing I didn't like, that I wish was in it was, and it's hard to say I wish something more was in a three hour movie, but, uh, like the uranium came from Australia and had to be, come through on ships through the Pacific Theater. Like, to me, that's interesting. I would have liked to see like how that happened, you know, like you have to travel through the Pacific Theater from Australia in the middle of the war to beat the Nazis. I just felt like story wise, there could have been ways to up the action and reduce the meetings. That's all.

• 1:29:27Rich Roll?

  Well, it was a, it was a lens into the mind of one man, right? Like, you know, Oppenheimer wasn't even in charge of the whole Manhattan Project. He was just in charge of Los Alamos.

• 1:29:39Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 1:29:39Rich Roll?

  So it was a portrait of a tortured genius through the lens of Christopher Nolan, who perhaps he considers himself a tortured genius, with the message of like, shouldn't we just leave geniuses alone and let them be geniuses? Right?

• 1:29:57Adam Skolnick?

  Yes, that's true.

• 1:29:58Rich Roll?

  There's a little bit of that.

• 1:29:59Adam Skolnick?

  That's true.

• 1:30:00Rich Roll?

  How much of that is autobiographical? I don't know, but I think Nolan is very interesting.

• 1:30:04Adam Skolnick?

  Yes.

• 1:30:04Rich Roll?

  Because he, you know, he, he lives a true artist's life. Like, he doesn't have a cellphone. He doesn't even have an email address. You can't email the guy.

• 1:30:14Adam Skolnick?

  Do you believe he doesn't have a cellphone? How's he listening to music?

• 1:30:17Rich Roll?

  Well, he has, I'm sure he has a phalanx of assistants.

• 1:30:19Adam Skolnick?

  Okay.

• 1:30:20Rich Roll?

  Right? But he goes out of his way to not be influenced by the cacophony of culture and society and distraction. And I think there's something incredibly courageous and laudable about that in 2023, that he can be a guy without an email address, who has his production, I think he bought the home next door to where he lives, and that's his production office. He works with his wife, um, and everything that he does.

• 1:30:48Rich Roll?

  is about creating credibility so that he can create outside the influence of the studio system. Obviously, he's partners with the studio system to make his movies, but by delivering extraordinary movies under budget and on time, he has a lot more freedom, also due to the extraordinary success of his movies, to not be bothered by stuff that other filmmakers would be bothered. And I think that that is a very intentional career move, that he's doubled down on time and time again over the course of his career so that he can make these kinds of movies. And I think there's something really instructive about that lifestyle choice that in 2023 feels very anachronistic.

• 1:31:31Adam Skolnick?

  Yes.

• 1:31:31Rich Roll?

  But I think is also extremely wise and certainly crucial to his success.

• 1:31:37Adam Skolnick?

  If you can do it, I think there is something to be said about being off the main and having an artistic view and an objective view of how things are going, especially as a storyteller. I will say, you can't not respect him. Obviously, I have a great amount of respect for him, a great amount of respect for Greta Gerwig and what they've done. But I will say, I don't believe everything a filmmaker, a guy whose whole point is to create an illusion, I don't believe everything they say about how they live their life when they're doing press for their movie.

• 1:32:04Rich Roll?

  He creates myths. So the myth of Christopher Nolan.

• 1:32:07Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 1:32:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I don't know.

• 1:32:12Adam Skolnick?

  We won't know.

• 1:32:12Rich Roll?

  We could test that. Which brings me to a few.

• 1:32:15Adam Skolnick?

  I'm gonna email him right now.

• 1:32:16Rich Roll?

  I've extracted a few insights I wanted to share from this movie.

• 1:32:19Adam Skolnick?

  Let's go.

• 1:32:19Rich Roll?

  Before we move on, and one of them is related to what you just said, which is, there is the theory of how Christopher Nolan lives his life, but what is the practice, right? And this is the message of the movie, is it not, Adam? Theory can only take you so far.

• 1:32:34Adam Skolnick?

  Indeed.

• 1:32:34Rich Roll?

  Right? You have to put theory into action. Next.

• 1:32:39Rich Roll?

  I also mentioned this one a minute ago. We should leave geniuses alone to be geniuses. This is the message of the movie.

• 1:32:45Adam Skolnick?

  Why do you keep emailing me and texting me?

• 1:32:48Rich Roll?

  I gotta stop bothering you, right? I needed to see this movie twice in order to really grok that, Adam. Also, being a lefty does not work well with the military industrial complex.

• 1:33:01Adam Skolnick?

  Especially as far lefty as he was.

• 1:33:04Rich Roll?

  Yes.

• 1:33:06Rich Roll?

  Don't mock powerful people in public hearings. It always comes back to bite you later. Maybe you were asleep during that part.

• 1:33:12Adam Skolnick?

  No, I stayed awake.

• 1:33:13Rich Roll?

  Okay.

• 1:33:13Adam Skolnick?

  I mean, I gotta see, I wanted to see, you know, I gotta see, who else was in it? Remy.

• 1:33:21Rich Roll?

  Oh, Remy Malek?

• 1:33:21Adam Skolnick?

  Yes.

• 1:33:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, coming in for that one scene at the end. I found him to be distracting with his weird eyeball stuff. You know, there's something very strange about that guy. He crushed that one speech, but in the scene earlier where he

• 1:33:35Adam Skolnick?

  The first scene not so good.

• 1:33:36Rich Roll?

  drops the clipboard, I was like, it took me out of the movie. I will give you that.

• 1:33:39Adam Skolnick?

  Bad first scene, great second scene.

• 1:33:42Rich Roll?

  How about this one? No matter what you think of the movie, Adam.

• 1:33:45Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:45Rich Roll?

  We all know, if you know anything about Oppenheimer, that at some point, he's gotta drop the line. Now I have become death destroyer of worlds, right? This is what, if you don't know anything about Oppenheimer, that might be the one thing you know. Like, this is how he thought of what he had wrought on the world.

• 1:34:00Adam Skolnick?

  Well, he

• 1:34:00Rich Roll?

  But you're thinking going into the movie, where is this gonna happen?

• 1:34:04Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 1:34:04Rich Roll?

  When is he gonna say it? Who's he gonna say it to? Here's the creative choice. Let's do it while Florence Pugh is straddling him naked.

• 1:34:12Adam Skolnick?

  Yes.

• 1:34:13Rich Roll?

  And he utters the line. Now that, my friend, is a strong creative choice.

• 1:34:16Adam Skolnick?

  Reading Sanskrit and

• 1:34:18Rich Roll?

  That is a bold choice

• 1:34:20Adam Skolnick?

  Yes.

• 1:34:20Rich Roll?

  to make as a filmmaker.

• 1:34:21Adam Skolnick?

  He was a real bohemian.

• 1:34:23Rich Roll?

  Well, he was a ladies' man, my next point, right? Who knew? Who knew?

• 1:34:28Adam Skolnick?

  Certainly not me.

• 1:34:29Rich Roll?

  Those baby blues.

• 1:34:30Adam Skolnick?

  I'm not sure that she, yeah, right, who knew? He was, he was, it seems like he would sleep with anybody's wife that was at the dinner party.

• 1:34:36Rich Roll?

  There was a lot of that. I know, I know. And, and where did it get him, Adam?

• 1:34:42Adam Skolnick?

  It got him married to Emily Blunt.

• 1:34:44Rich Roll?

  That's true. You know, all of these relationships were fraught.

• 1:34:48Adam Skolnick?

  Well, that's the biggest critique, public critique of the movie is you don't actually, even though you know that it affects him deeply and he feels like in some ways, he's failed as a human being. You don't actually see the damage. And that was intentional. And Christopher Nolan has spoken about that, but that is something I'm still hearing about online.

• 1:35:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. Also, not notable for writing strong female characters.

• 1:35:11Adam Skolnick?

  Nolan?

• 1:35:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:12Adam Skolnick?

  Really, is that right? I thought Blunt was fabulous.

• 1:35:15Rich Roll?

  She was good, but they could have given her a little bit more to do. But it was nice to see her stand up. But but her job was secondary in her support of him, of course.

• 1:35:24Adam Skolnick?

  Right, of course.

• 1:35:25Rich Roll?

  It's his story.

• 1:35:25Adam Skolnick?

  And that also speaks to the time a little bit, too.

• 1:35:27Rich Roll?

  My final thing, and this bugs me more than anything, is that Nolan needs a new sound mixer. I don't know about you, but I find 70% of the dialogue inaudible in his movies. I had the same problem with Tenet. At first, I thought it was the theater or maybe sitting too close to the screen. But after a second viewing, I found it to be the same. There's a certain muffledness with the dialogue.

• 1:35:49Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 1:35:50Rich Roll?

  And his movies are so complex, and you need to really hear every single thing that everyone's saying just to not get passed by, so you can be locked into the progression of the story. And he adds this extra layer of difficulty on top of it by making it difficult to understand what they're saying.

• 1:36:07Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:07Rich Roll?

  I thought maybe I was just getting old. But this is the thing, like, I noticed it in Tenet. I did some research on it. Like, a lot of people have been commenting on this. So I don't know why he does that, but maybe don't do it next time.

• 1:36:20Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, don't do it.

• 1:36:21Rich Roll?

  But I love the movie.

• 1:36:23Adam Skolnick?

  The good news, though, he didn't make Meg 2. So you'll be able to hear everything that happens in Meg 2 real clear.

• 1:36:29Rich Roll?

  The dialogue will be very audible in that movie, I'm sure. All right, we just did a movie podcast. We're done. We're not going to talk about any of this other stuff. Let's do some listener questions.

• 1:36:37Adam Skolnick?

  Let's do it.

• 1:36:46Rich Roll?

  Wait, are we rolling?

• 1:36:47Adam Skolnick?

  We're rolling.

• 1:36:48Rich Roll?

  All right, let me just, let me just, because I do want to make a point. So you had mentioned that Christopher Nolan makes 20% of gross off the top, which means that...

• 1:36:55Adam Skolnick?

  I've read it.

• 1:36:56Rich Roll?

  Well, that, assuming that's true, he's already made north of $100 million.

• 1:36:59Adam Skolnick?

  Yes.

• 1:37:00Rich Roll?

  So the question is, will he deploy that $100 million to buy a cellphone? Possibly, maybe not. We don't know.

• 1:37:07Adam Skolnick?

  Probably not.

• 1:37:07Rich Roll?

  You're so cynical. You don't, but you believe he has a cellphone and he's lying the whole time.

• 1:37:12Adam Skolnick?

  No, I believe.

• 1:37:12Rich Roll?

  But he has created the myth of Christopher Nolan.

• 1:37:15Adam Skolnick?

  I'm saying there's a possible.

• 1:37:16Rich Roll?

  But I will say, okay.

• 1:37:17Adam Skolnick?

  Possible, yeah.

• 1:37:17Rich Roll?

  But I will say, our friend Chris Evans over here, didn't have a cellphone for a long time. Also, emails under an alias. And he, I think, I think maybe the first time you emailed me under an alias, you said, well, this is actually me, blah, blah, blah. And, and then subsequently, you emailed me, but I'd forgotten the name that you were using or whatever. I didn't know who this person was and you were trying to communicate. Do you, what happened?

• 1:37:41Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:41Rich Roll?

  And I just blew it off.

• 1:37:43Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:43Rich Roll?

  Come here and tell that story.

• 1:37:46Adam Skolnick?

  Chris Evans, everybody.

• 1:37:47Rich Roll?

  He's back. See how I pulled him back in?

• 1:37:50Speaker 02

  Christopher, no phone. You don't believe him.

• 1:37:53Adam Skolnick?

  Here's, here's the thing. When you, when, if, for me to believe that you're so analog, that you're off the beat, you don't tell me you don't have an email address. What you say is, I have, only have an AOL email address. If you say, I only have an AOL email address, then you're like someone's grandpa and you're really analog because you're really off the beat. But if you just say, I don't have an email address, that could be some bullshit.

• 1:38:19Speaker 02

  So they say, Rich will know this, if you spot it, you got it. Yeah? Where's that from?

• 1:38:25Rich Roll?

  I don't know. From you.

• 1:38:26Adam Skolnick?

  Shakespeare.

• 1:38:26Speaker 02

  From the rooms. Sometimes people say that in the rooms.

• 1:38:29Rich Roll?

  Oh, that, yeah.

• 1:38:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. So you say, some people come in here and they want you to think one thing about them or another thing about them. If you spot it, you got it, Adam?

• 1:38:38Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, they, yeah, I mean, basically.

• 1:38:40Adam Skolnick?

  I'm so open. That is totally not me at all.

• 1:38:43Rich Roll?

  Another way of saying that is, you can't transmit something you haven't got, right? So if somebody is authentically sharing from their heart, you can, you know, right?

• 1:38:52Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:52Rich Roll?

  And if they're, if they're bullshitting you, if your radar is even slightly attuned, you can tell.

• 1:38:57Adam Skolnick?

  That's all I'm saying. And so I, my point is that I don't think most directors in a publicity scenario, this is not speaking about him personally, are gonna be, are gonna be able to be revealing like that. Because they want, especially a guy who wants to keep his kind of creative potion going. He would have a motivation to not. But if you're like, just. Some writer guy on a podcast, I'm not faking it.

• 1:39:20Speaker 02

  So you think one of the most creative geniuses of our time?

• 1:39:23Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. Has had to come up with this ruse of not having a phone to promote his amazing film?

• 1:39:29Rich Roll?

  Yes. Thank you. Thank you for concisely making the point that I was struggling. Pin him down on another mic drop.

• 1:39:40Adam Skolnick?

  I retract.

• 1:39:40Rich Roll?

  Another mic drop. He just walked off again.

• 1:39:42Adam Skolnick?

  I retract.

• 1:39:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:44Adam Skolnick?

  I retract. Retract.

• 1:39:46Rich Roll?

  Well done. Good sir.

• 1:39:47Adam Skolnick?

  Where are you going? Aren't you gonna be here?

• 1:39:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I like how he dodged his own email alias question also.

• 1:39:55Speaker 02

  I still don't pay my own phone bill.

• 1:39:57Rich Roll?

  You don't?

• 1:39:58Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:39:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's like a, that's a rich man, poor man thing. Either you're so poor, you don't pay it, or you're so rich, someone else pays it.

• 1:40:05Speaker 02

  No, there's a guy that we all know who was insistent that I had a phone and I said, I'm not gonna get one. So he got me one and he still pays the bill.

• 1:40:16Rich Roll?

  Maybe you can be that guy for Christopher Nolan, Adam.

• 1:40:19Adam Skolnick?

  Christopher, if you're listening, and I know you are.

• 1:40:21Rich Roll?

  You'll, you'll pay his cellphone bill for him.

• 1:40:23Adam Skolnick?

  I got your cellphone bill and I'm sorry I said that thing about the snoring people. It's their fault. Something they were going through. I liked it. I was there for the experience. I'm just saying, there was a few too many meetings, maybe? And there was, you know.

• 1:40:37Rich Roll?

  Now you're coming off weak with that backpedal. Like, hold your, either, you know, hold your ground.

• 1:40:42Adam Skolnick?

  You know what I mean.

• 1:40:42Rich Roll?

  All right, let's move on.

• 1:40:43Adam Skolnick?

  All right.

• 1:40:44Rich Roll?

  Question.

• 1:40:44Adam Skolnick?

  This is from Matthew, who's calling all the way in from South Korea.

• 1:40:49Speaker 03

  Hi, this is Matthew calling from South Korea. I just finished my 18th year of teaching as a middle and high school math teacher. I taught in public and private schools in the United States and private international schools in Mexico and South Korea. As a teacher, I value teaching students to think, problem solve, understand why things work and solving non-routine problems. While also items such as value in mental health, being good people, grit and empathy. I have three education related questions. Feel free to answer whichever you like, but I'm asking them in order of importance to me. My first question, leaving it fairly open-ended, what are your thoughts on secondary education system in the US? It could be the status of American education, or what do you think are important skills or challenges that teachers and students should focus on?

• 1:41:35Speaker 03

  Second question, if you were giving a commencement speech, what would your message be? And third question, how would you apply James Clear's 1% rule for teachers that want to continue to improve their craft or potentially find new positions in education-related careers that may demand additional skills such as leadership that are typically absent from a day-to-day job for a teacher? Thank you.

• 1:41:58Rich Roll?

  Wow, a three-parter from Matthew in South Korea. I think I'll tackle the first two parts. The third part, I'm not sure I have a worthy answer to. Maybe you do, Adam.

• 1:42:09Adam Skolnick?

  I don't know what Clear's 1% rule is.

• 1:42:12Rich Roll?

  You know, I think there's a lot to be said about secondary education, at least in the United States, as an outdated model that was shaped by the needs of the emerging capitalist trend that we've been on. Basically, what happened was the Industrial Revolution. And when that happened and gained momentum, industrialists required skilled and disciplined workers to, they needed a continual supply of these people to meet the demands of their growing industries. And the education system was like its feeder program. And it was really developed out of a need, a desire to cater to those industrialists by emphasizing or creating a curriculum that would create good workers, you know,

• 1:42:57Rich Roll?

  workers who could be punctual, obedient, efficient. And so, the whole infrastructure of secondary education was oriented around, you know, teaching people what they needed to know in order to be good factory workers, essentially. And here we are in 2023. Have we really changed this system? Not really, right? We're all walking around, I've said this before, with supercomputers in our pocket that can answer any fact-based question that you could possibly have. We now have all of these incredibly powerful LLMs that, you know, take that even a step further. What the world is going to look like in three to five years, who knows? But certainly, those tools are going to get refined and enhanced, which begs the question of, what are we doing in the classroom, right?

• 1:43:41Rich Roll?

  Should we be teaching people in a way where we're prioritizing the memorization of facts and the answering of rote questions that these computers can do for us? I think that the emphasis should be shifted to focus on some of the things that he is already seems to be teaching in his classroom, maybe because he's in South Korea and not in the United States where he would be much more restricted in what his curriculum looks like. But, you know, I really think that education needs to evolve beyond the fact-based memorization paradigm that we've had for too many decades and needs to focus on how about developing self-esteem, how about teaching leadership, how about helping

• 1:44:24Rich Roll?

  young people learn how to tap into their creative voice and express themselves, how about team building, how do you build a team, how do you work within a team, how do you problem solve as an individual but also as a member of a team, as a leader or as, you know, just a member of a larger team. Like, when you go out into the world, what's going to distinguish you from an AI or, you know, something that could supplant you in the workforce. It's your creativity, it's your ability to look at a problem and solve it with a perspective that is fresh and new. And, you know, I think it's your ability to work with other people, to understand how to respect other people as well in the

• 1:45:09Rich Roll?

  workforce, and with a level of self-esteem that is going to empower you to tackle difficult things and learn and grow in all the various ways that we need you to. You know, so I don't know. It seems pretty evident to me. I don't know that I'm seeing a lot of that, and it doesn't seem to be a lot of evolution in the secondary educational system. And you have a young person who's

• 1:45:32Adam Skolnick?

  I do. We're not there yet. We're not there yet. Although he did take a Polaroid selfie when we weren't looking yesterday, and it looks like I could see his teen self, his disaffected teen self in this too-close Polaroid of my cute little three-year-old.

• 1:45:45Rich Roll?

  Naval gazing, you know, sort of, yeah, like, shut up, dad, like, version.

• 1:45:51Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, I could see him happening. I think what you're saying is well said, you know, how do you get there from here? I don't even really know. I couldn't answer because I don't know the status of current secondary education because I don't have a child that's there and it's been a while for me. You, you know, are shepherding people through school and like two, you had two that just kind of, one that just went through it and one that is going through it, right?

• 1:46:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:46:14Adam Skolnick?

  So you, you have a perfect lens on this. I will say that one thing I don't like is the politis- politis- politisization, politization, politis- politicization?

• 1:46:25Rich Roll?

  You know, when we get older, it gets harder to say words like that.

• 1:46:28Adam Skolnick?

  Of everything.

• 1:46:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:30Adam Skolnick?

  And the fact that now, parents are like, having fights at school board meetings is appalling. And so, that we had that in Temecula, we had that in Glendale here just in Southern California, and these fights are going, whatever the reason, I don't really care what the reason is, it's like, it shows me that anytime you give teachers latitude, it's going to be fought at some point on either side, and that's a problem, right? So for me, it's like, my thing is, teachers should be paid more, they should be given more autonomy, we should take the emphasis off standardized testing, but we can't have the hegemony of the mob kind of dictate what is taught at a particular community. So, all of those things are very complex, and there's people who know a lot more about them than

• 1:47:12Adam Skolnick?

  me, but that's what concerns me about secondary education from someone who hasn't been in the teeth of it for a while.

• 1:47:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So, so you're not into banning books?

• 1:47:21Adam Skolnick?

  No, I think all books should be available, at all times. All books.

• 1:47:26Rich Roll?

  I mean, I think the system is set up to create people who are really good at taking tests.

• 1:47:30Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 1:47:30Rich Roll?

  That's what it rewards. It doesn't reward creativity, or thinking outside the box, and I think those are skills that are becoming more and more valuable, and, and that needs to get priced in to this whole system. I don't know how you do that, I don't have the answer to that.

• 1:47:44Adam Skolnick?

  I mean, let's, let's keep it real, like, for so long, our public education system was basically built on the fact that there was a glass ceiling in place, and women couldn't really get high-paying jobs in the corporate world, and so the place that high-powered, really intelligent women could do well, was as teachers in schools, and so that- That happened for generations. So that's why, you know, my mother was a teacher in school. She's like a brilliant woman. And so, and there's a lot of teachers that are still brilliant now. This is not shitting on teachers, but what I'm saying is there was a built in kind of funnel of talent to schools that now there isn't because they have other choices.

• 1:48:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:23Adam Skolnick?

  And so, you know, we have to pay teachers more. I, I think, you know, given the, the condition of cities, we have to pay police officers. We have to pay people more. So you get talent that is a top talent. So you can compete really and get people that can help us move in that direction.

• 1:48:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I agree with that. But at the same time, you can pay, you could pay teachers a lot more. And obviously a great teacher can make a huge difference. But if they're stuck within the confines of a system that doesn't allow them to have any flexibility with the curriculum or the manner in which they teach, that's only going to go so far. So it's a systemic problem as much as anything else. And then, you know, to the second question of the commencement speech, I just jotted down a couple of thoughts, you know, on that note. I mean, I think in terms of ideas that I like to communicate to young people, first and foremost is to invest in your own creativity and not get caught up

• 1:49:20Rich Roll?

  in the confined structures of the system that is trying to push you in a certain direction. Go to this school, go to that school, get this kind of job. You know, people who are very good at school, who are very good at taking tests, tend to also be rule followers and they become very good at figuring out how to be upwardly mobile in that situation. I was one of those people. It was only in later years that I realized like, why was I doing any of this? Because I hadn't paused to reflect upon what it was that I wanted to do or who I wanted to be. So I'm always impressing upon young people to engage with that process earlier in life than I did. And sometimes it's difficult because you are in a system

• 1:50:03Rich Roll?

  that's telling you this is what's important, getting a good grade on this test or interviewing for this job. And it takes. Courage and a presence of mind to kind of pause for a moment and say, okay, yes, but also I need to do this for myself long term. So I think that's important and that will help you entertain opportunities that are outside of your comfort zone. And those experiences while you face obstacles and fail and fall on your face and have these experiences over time will help you discover who you are and what's important to you. And in the meantime, I think it's important for young people to consciously give their

• 1:50:44Rich Roll?

  energy to things that really light them up and excite them irrespective of whatever external forces are telling you you should or you shouldn't do. Like if something really means something to you and gets you excited and gives you energy when you get out of bed, that's something that you should fertilize and cultivate in your own life. It doesn't mean it has to be a job, but I think there's something in that that's communicating to you who you are and it's important to give your attention to that. And sometimes that means breaking free of the expectations of other people. And those social strictures can be suffocating and very difficult to escape from. And I think developing an awareness

• 1:51:27Rich Roll?

  around that and the extent to which those externalities are controlling your decision making or unduly influencing the decisions you're making about what you're going to do with your life are really important to consider. I also, on a conservative note, think that it's important to learn discipline and the value of hard work and the value of a dollar. Like there is a certain entitlement with, you know, some aspects of the younger generation where they think they should just waltz in somewhere and get a high-paid job and get to do what they want to do and work from home and, you know, basically go on expensive vacations whenever they feel like it. And, you know, it's just not reality.

• 1:52:08Rich Roll?

  So I think there's disabusing people of that notion and getting them connected to the idea that if you want to do something, no matter what it is, it's going to be difficult. And, you know, kind of acclimating yourself to that earlier in life, I think is important as well. So experience life, say yes to adventure, accumulate experiences, and along the way, figure out you and then commit to being the best version of that authentic you. That is your mission.

• 1:52:37Adam Skolnick?

  I love that. Boom. Well said.

• 1:52:41Rich Roll?

  Part three, I got nothing to say.

• 1:52:42Adam Skolnick?

  Oh, I was waiting for you to go on.

• 1:52:44Rich Roll?

  No, I got nothing.

• 1:52:45Adam Skolnick?

  I don't know what the one percent rule is.

• 1:52:47Rich Roll?

  He's been a teacher for 18 years. What can I tell this guy?

• 1:52:49Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, why are we giving you teaching advice?

• 1:52:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:52:52Adam Skolnick?

  You should give us, how do we fix it?

• 1:52:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:52:55Adam Skolnick?

  What's happening in Korea?

• 1:52:56Rich Roll?

  I don't know.

• 1:52:57Adam Skolnick?

  Appreciate that question. That was good. Anytime we could talk about the education system, I think is important. Um, and, uh, let's move on to the next one. This is also a Korean, uh, transmission.

• 1:53:11Speaker 04

  Hey, Richard and Adam. Uh, my name is Zach. I'm 22 years old. Uh, I'm originally from Bethesda, Maryland, and right now I'm in the army and I'm living in Korea. So my question was, how do you navigate pursuing challenges and embracing obstacles from a state of completion? Uh, and you know, feeling like you're enough. So for a bit of context here, I've been really into eastern philosophy lately. So I've been reading a lot of Alan Watts and practicing mindfulness meditation. But at the same time, sometimes it feels like the more I consume eastern philosophy, while it encourages, you know, a state of calming clarity, it also seems to reduce ambition a little bit, along with, you know, my desire to like do hard things.

• 1:53:54Speaker 04

  So I was just curious how you guys approach this divide and, you know, these different states of being. And, um, yeah, thank you guys for all the great work you do on the podcast. I'm a big fan. Thanks.

• 1:54:04Rich Roll?

  How about Zach dropping in with like the ultimate, you know, struggle of mankind, right?

• 1:54:10Adam Skolnick?

  Spiritual warrior incarnate.

• 1:54:11Rich Roll?

  Being versus doing. I mean, this is, this is the shit, right? Like this is the whole ballgame, is it not? Before we unpack that though, you know, I'm from Bethesda.

• 1:54:21Adam Skolnick?

  I think I, I knew you were like, so I thought you were Silver Spring. You're Bethesda.

• 1:54:25Rich Roll?

  No, I grew up in Bethesda.

• 1:54:26Adam Skolnick?

  Okay.

• 1:54:27Rich Roll?

  And, and, uh, Zach being, um, from the army reminded me sort of related. So when I was in high school, one of the jobs that I had. Was delivering pizza and I delivered pizza for this pizza delivery company called, it was sort of like a Domino's thing, but it was just a one like family owned one shop thing and it was called Postal Pizza.

• 1:54:48Adam Skolnick?

  Oh.

• 1:54:49Rich Roll?

  Which is a terrible name because it's like, we're as slow as the mail. Like, I don't get it, you know?

• 1:54:54Adam Skolnick?

  Back then, the mail was respected.

• 1:54:56Rich Roll?

  It was called Postal Pizza. This was the greatest job, though. I love this job because basically you just drive around and listen to music and then you get to knock on people's doors and then look into their house and see how people live. Like when I was 17 or whatever, I thought this was great.

• 1:55:08Adam Skolnick?

  You were a Postmates guy.

• 1:55:09Rich Roll?

  But what was great about Postal Pizza was, I mean, this is like, I don't know, 1987 or something.

• 1:55:15Adam Skolnick?

  Yes.

• 1:55:15Rich Roll?

  It was, it was connected to a video rental store.

• 1:55:19Adam Skolnick?

  Okay.

• 1:55:20Rich Roll?

  So you could call up and you order your pizza, but you could also order a movie. So it delivered the pizza and the VHS tape.

• 1:55:26Adam Skolnick?

  That's awesome.

• 1:55:27Rich Roll?

  Which was pretty cool.

• 1:55:28Adam Skolnick?

  That's, I've never heard of that before.

• 1:55:29Rich Roll?

  One time Ted Koppel came in, walked in. That was the big moment.

• 1:55:32Adam Skolnick?

  Come on.

• 1:55:33Rich Roll?

  Very summer. Ordered his pizza in person. But anyway.

• 1:55:36Adam Skolnick?

  How great was Ted Koppel's hair?

• 1:55:37Rich Roll?

  But here's the thing, like, how great is his what? His hair?

• 1:55:40Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, all time.

• 1:55:40Rich Roll?

  Is it real? I think it's real.

• 1:55:42Adam Skolnick?

  I think it's real.

• 1:55:43Rich Roll?

  It's quite coiffed, is it not? Anyway, a lot of the orders would come from the naval base where like NIH is and, what is it? Walter Reed, like when the president goes to the hospital, wherever. So there's a naval base there. The fact that Zach's in the army just reminded me of this. So 70% of the pizza orders were like the enlisted guys at the naval base in Bethesda, which is weird because there's no, it's not on the water. Like, I don't, I don't know what they were, what goes on at that naval base. But anyway, they order a lot of pizza and they were not great tippers. That's, that's my big takeaway. I don't remember that, but you know.

• 1:56:17Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:17Rich Roll?

  Cut him a break.

• 1:56:18Adam Skolnick?

  Let's let, let's try to let it breathe that out.

• 1:56:20Rich Roll?

  Still thinking about it.

• 1:56:20Adam Skolnick?

  Breathe it out.

• 1:56:21Rich Roll?

  Okay. Maybe Zach is a good tipper, though. We don't know.

• 1:56:26Adam Skolnick?

  We don't know. It depends on.

• 1:56:27Rich Roll?

  The more he, more, more Alan Watts he listens to.

• 1:56:31Adam Skolnick?

  He's like, hey, bra, don't look at me like you need a tip. It doesn't really matter. Doesn't really matter, bro.

• 1:56:37Rich Roll?

  What can we tell Zach about the tension between being and doing, Adam? I'm gonna let you take a stab at this first.

• 1:56:43Adam Skolnick?

  Me?

• 1:56:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I have some thoughts, but, you know, it's not like, hey, man, should I go to college or not? Like, this is the struggle of man.

• 1:56:50Adam Skolnick?

  Right, right. Like, so when I first started to get into reading the Tao Te Ching, I felt like going with the flow was a kind of a path of least resistance thing. And so, yes, it was like a more, it's okay to be a little more passive and let the world have, you know, like, flow with the world, which I guess you can be interpreted as reduction of ambition, as in, you're not trying to actively do something against the momentum that is just existing, that you have to kind of merge with. But the more I read it now, I just see it as a different thing. I see it as how you're taming the mind, and that is separate from your goals and ambitions.

• 1:57:30Adam Skolnick?

  And so, the how you train your mind and how you come to balance in your mind, does that mean you're not doing hard things? It doesn't mean you don't have ambition in your life. It means like, principles like humility, adaptability, perseverance, which are, to me, are core, they're core in the Tao, they're core to mindfulness. Those things are really important to doing hard things. So, the way I look at that is that the, when you're first reading into philosophy, it's easy to kind of get the hook. You get hooked by that passive, not passive, I wouldn't even, passive is not even the right word, but you get hooked by that kind of feeling of flow, because that's what hooks you, right?

• 1:58:12Adam Skolnick?

  It's like, ah, wow, that we are so small, and that we are in awe of how small we are, and how beautiful and vast the world is, and the energy that's flowing all around us. And so, we're in awe of that.

• 1:58:24Rich Roll?

  Then comes, then comes the terror.

• 1:58:25Adam Skolnick?

  But then, but then you get into, or you're a householder, you know? Like, now you're in a different place. Like, when I was kind of a pebble, getting kicked around the world, doing the travel stuff, it's easy to stay in that small space. But when you're raising a family, and you're, you have other, you're being tugged on in a million directions, these kind of smaller, but actually deeper realizations of just remain humble, remain adaptable, and persevere, which to me is everything.

• 1:58:53Adam Skolnick?

  That's, I think, where you can click in to continue to have your ambition, continue to do those hard things. Just look at that next level. Or maybe, maybe just look at, you know, the way I do it is I don't, I don't read a whole book with the Tao Te Ching. I might read one verse every day for weeks until I'm kind of feel like I got one part of that lesson. So that's just that way I look at this particular question.

• 1:59:16Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well said. The idea that being or investing in a state of being brings a certain presence of mind and mindfulness to, to the doing, I think is what you're saying, right? I think when I said terror, what I, what I meant by that is there is, you know, the more, the more that you invest in this journey of being, the more you realize the fractured illusion of identity, right? The attachments that you've made between what you do and who you are. So here we have a guy who's in the army, who's in a very regimented situation, sort of dynamic

• 1:59:57Rich Roll?

  for his life, in which there's a priority placed on doing hard things, overcoming obstacles in a certain way. And there's an association of masculinity and success that comes with that. And when you start going down the Alan Watts being rabbit hole, you start to deconstruct that identity. And that's scary, right? Like, well, who am I, right?

• 2:00:20Adam Skolnick?

  The futility of it, right?

• 2:00:22Rich Roll?

  Right, yeah, exactly. So I think this is kind of where, you know, he finds himself right now.

• 2:00:26Adam Skolnick?

  Yes, I was reading that, yeah.

• 2:00:28Rich Roll?

  You know, this idea that, oh, well, if I'm not, you know, in the army, or I'm not like climbing a wall, or, or, you know, like tackling this difficult problem, who am I? Like, the more I kind of go down this rabbit hole, it's going to rob me of that ambition. And that ambition is what I associate with who I am. And when you start to pull the cover on that and realize, well, that's something you do, or it's an attachment you have to a certain sense of your identity that is not actually reality, that's a scary thing, right? So it's like it's threatening everything that you've constructed in your mind about who you are. So. I think that's also this amazing opportunity, right?

• 2:01:13Rich Roll?

  Like where you can, where you can realize that there's a greater depth and complexity to who you are and a dynamism to who you are and how you show up in the world. That is going to only expand your life, right? So I understand and appreciate the fear that gets associated with like, hey, man, if I, if I keep doing all this stuff, like I'm going to end up in a cave somewhere, penniless and you know, all of that. I found all of those fears to actually be false for the very reasons that you said. Like the more, it just, it basically

• 2:01:46Rich Roll?

  provides you

• 2:01:49Rich Roll?

  with a clarity that helps you discern what is worthy of your attention. And your attention is really all that you have. How you direct it, where you focus it is, you know, the most, those are the most important decisions that you make, right? And the clarity that comes with being will allow you to discard or bypass expenditures of your time, energy, focus and work that are moving away from the person that you're working towards or that you aspire to be. So it is the being that clarifies what is important and what is not, such that you can bring a presence and a mindfulness to the doing. The doing doesn't fade away or go away.

• 2:02:29Rich Roll?

  You can still do hard things and you know, exactly the way that you described it, but you're doing it with a level of intentionality and an understanding that

• 2:02:40Rich Roll?

  by placing your attention on this thing that aligns with your values, you know, that, uh, that that doing is worthy of the being that you're bringing to it.

• 2:02:50Adam Skolnick?

  And just to put a cap on it, like doing hard things, we talk about that as if it's a choice. I mean, the bottom line is we're all going to have to do hard things because it's life, right?

• 2:03:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah, life is fucking hard.

• 2:03:01Adam Skolnick?

  Like the hard things are coming, you know what I mean? So it's like, that's just the way it is. And, um, and I understand that, I get what you're saying. I think you, you nailed this and I just want to say that, uh, the terror, it's like, reminds me of existentialism and kind of that you can hear in Bob Dylan and you, you read in Albert Camus, this existentialist terror that, uh, everything is futile. It doesn't matter what happens, but actually that's the liberation.

• 2:03:30Rich Roll?

  Isn't that nihilism?

• 2:03:31Adam Skolnick?

  No, but that's the liberation of existentialism, right? It doesn't matter the outcome of A, B, or C. Because, and if you feel that way, then that allows you to be free in the action of it. And therefore, everything is liberated.

• 2:03:45Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:03:45Adam Skolnick?

  And so, I feel like there's a parallel there in eastern philosophy in terms of as you approach something like, that you might have to do at work. It's like, yes, you're gonna give it your all. If it doesn't go your way, you're gonna keep giving it your all, because that's what we're here for.

• 2:03:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:57Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:58Rich Roll?

  I mean, to really answer this guy's question, we would need hours and hours and hours and stacks of books.

• 2:04:04Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:05Rich Roll?

  To go through, right?

• 2:04:06Adam Skolnick?

  You can just cut my last part. You did so good.

• 2:04:08Rich Roll?

  No, no, no.

• 2:04:08Adam Skolnick?

  And then I think I've spoiled it.

• 2:04:10Rich Roll?

  Let's go to Austin.

• 2:04:11Adam Skolnick?

  All right, Austin, Texas. Let's get out of Korea for once.

• 2:04:17Adam Skolnick?

  We could cut that, but it's funny.

• 2:04:20Adam Skolnick?

  I mean, go to Korea.

• 2:04:21Rich Roll?

  That's good. Let's get out of Korea for once.

• 2:04:23Adam Skolnick?

  All right. This is good. See, didn't you miss me? I knew you missed me.

• 2:04:28Rich Roll?

  I know.

• 2:04:31Speaker 05

  Hi there, this is Brett Enin. I'm from Austin, Texas, and I'm just sitting here doing the very mundane tasks and portion of my work, which I feel generally very excited by. I do experiential marketing and am a consultant for a business, and I really enjoy it. But in sort of doing my own business now, I'm just curious, like, with all of the show that you've grown and just business in general, knowing that probably 80% of it is just these boring tasks that we have to get through, and email, and blah, blah, blah, like, if

• 2:05:16Speaker 05

  you have any recommendations for how to make the boring parts more stimulating, any mindsets or mental refrains to feel more invigorated and get through the sort of not fun parts? So, that's my question. I hope you all have a great day. Thanks.

• 2:05:39Rich Roll?

  I feel like Brett's question taps into the existentialism that you were just talking about a minute ago. Yes. You know, is there meaning, is there, you know, what is beyond here? How are we going to, you know, find, uh, you know, some kind of purpose beyond the mundanity? And I think layered into this question is perhaps a, a less than fully mature appreciation for the fact that life is not just about leaping from one peak experience to the next, but that in truth, everything worthy of pursuing, or doing, or building, or growing, or working towards involves a lot of fucking boring shit, you know?

• 2:06:24Rich Roll?

  And you gotta just like Goggins would say, embrace the suck, right? Yes. Like, you gotta suit up and just do the boring shit. Like, you know, whether it's business, especially in social media, you go online and it's just post after post about, you know, success story and overnight venture capital funding and product launches and all kinds of sexy, exciting stuff. But behind the scenes of anything successful, whether it's a business, or a podcast, or as an athlete, or an author, or any creative endeavor, there's just a lot of really hard, unsexy shit that doesn't travel on the internet, but is the underlying truth in the recipe of achieving anything worthwhile in the world, right?

• 2:07:09Rich Roll?

  So rather than trying to turn those boring tasks into just another peak experience, I think it's reframing it and understanding that this is just part of the journey that you're on in the process of trying to build something for yourself. And there's a, there's kind of a powerful lesson about life in that. Uh, and it's back to your attention, right? All you have is your attention. How are you directing that attention? And what is the... Kind of default predisposition that you're bringing that attention that is that is kind of packed on to or attached to that attention when you have to do boring shit like answer emails, right?

• 2:07:53Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:53Rich Roll?

  Can you reframe it and say, well, this is just, this is something that I have to do. And every person who's trying to build something similar to what I'm trying to build has to do it as well. So can I find gratitude in it? Can I figure out that this is just a piece in a greater journey and that it's serving an important purpose as mundane as it is? Like, there's no getting around it.

• 2:08:15Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, no, I mean, you brought up David and I have, it's so funny, like, how, like, months after this book has come out, after working, like, I find myself, like, thinking, thinking like David more now than maybe after, at all, in my whole life, after having done these two books. And I can, I feel like, I don't know for a fact this is how we react, but I think what he would say and how he would feel about this is, this boring shit is your opportunity to separate yourself from everybody else doing your job. This boring shit right here is why everybody else comes in second, or third, or fifth, or eighth, because this boring shit just bothers them to the point where they just

• 2:08:58Adam Skolnick?

  get half ass it and give themselves permission to quit. This boring shit is your ticket to be the best there is in your business.

• 2:09:05Rich Roll?

  I'm not going to top that, so. That's another mic drop.

• 2:09:09Adam Skolnick?

  I got one.

• 2:09:10Rich Roll?

  Courtesy of Goggins, right?

• 2:09:12Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:13Rich Roll?

  Two for Chris, one for Adam, and that's a wrap. Awesome. Thank you, Chris Evans, for joining us today, as begrudging as you were. It was beautiful to have you. I appreciate you. I love you, buddy.

• 2:09:30Adam Skolnick?

  Thanks, man.

• 2:09:31Rich Roll?

  And Adam, good to be back with you, man.

• 2:09:32Adam Skolnick?

  Thanks for having me.

• 2:09:33Rich Roll?

  Maybe we should, should we do this more often?

• 2:09:34Adam Skolnick?

  I'm literally always available.

• 2:09:38Adam Skolnick?

  Literally.

• 2:09:38Rich Roll?

  I will take that to heart. We'll be back when we're back. In the meantime, I do not take your attention for granted. I really appreciate everybody who has listened all the way through to the end of the day.

• 2:09:50Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:50Rich Roll?

  You know, all the way. You made it. Congratulations.

• 2:09:53Adam Skolnick?

  Well, you started out thanking the listeners. I thank you for having me back and thank you listeners for tuning in. Thank you, Chris, for your advice and your optimism. Appreciate it, man.

• 2:10:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, absolutely. All right, man. That's it. Peace. Plants. Alastair.