Most Replayed Moment: Captivate A Room Even If You’re Shy! - Vinh Giang

Vinh Giang is an entrepreneur, keynote speaker, and master of communication who helps people transform the way they use their voice. In today's Moments episode, Vinh reveals how even the most reserved speakers can sound confident and charismatic. By treating your voice like an instrument and mastering tools like pitch, melody, and pace, here's how to captivate a room using your voice. Listen to the full episode here! Spotify: ⁠https://g2ul0.app.link/xkVmqWUZWWb⁠ Apple:⁠ https://g2ul0.app.link/IHdMsK1ZWWb⁠ Watch the episodes on YouTube: ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/c/%20TheDiaryOfACEO/videos⁠

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Steven Bartlett?

  I was looking earlier, there's almost like a billion search results on Google for people trying to figure out or trying to provide answers to how to communicate successfully. So let's get into it. So I use this term vocal image.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:16Steven Bartlett?

  What does vocal image mean?

• 0:17Speaker 01

  It came about when I realised I spend, and I think most of us spend a lot of time on our visual image, right? How we look, our body language, the way we dress. But very rarely do people spend time on their vocal image. Now, I'll make it make sense. When people see you and you reveal your visual image, they make assumptions about you pretty quickly. So they form assumptions, "Oh, this person seems friendly." Maybe they're confident because they've got good posture. Maybe they're smiling, they're friendly. And then all of a sudden, when you open your mouth and you speak, they now turn these assumptions into beliefs. So what may be assumptions before, now they go, "Oh, you are friendly. You are confident," right? Or they might think, "Oh, no, bit of a wanker," right? And you've had these experiences before, I've had them before, where you assume you see someone, you're, "Oh, that person's really good."

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Go and meet them, you're, "Ah, not really nice. That's weird." So it's another layer that we don't think about though, because we again think we're stuck with our voice. We think we're stuck with the way we communicate. We think there's no way for me to ever change this.

• 1:15Steven Bartlett?

  So let's, let's talk about how one can improve their vocal image so that they're effective across context.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:21Steven Bartlett?

  You mentioned melody, volume, hand gestures. If we start with melody, what the hell is melody?

• 1:26Speaker 01

  The different notes you can hit with your voice?

• 1:28Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, so is that variety?

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, variety, yeah. Pitch variety, pitch and melody.

• 1:31Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 1:32Speaker 01

  Well, because there's a melody that lives underneath your voice. All right, let's do an experiment. I'm gonna play you a piano song and I want you to listen to this. And then you're at home right now. I want you to listen to the track and see what words come to mind. So we'll just play, we'll play this song.

• 1:52Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, yeah, all right.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  Sadness. Right, so then if listeners at home could have a voice here too, that's maybe say, they would say somber, nostalgic, right? All these words would come up. And then again, if we sat with this for all, we'd get plenty of words. Let's try another one. So let's change the mood. Let's shift to something like this.

• 2:13Steven Bartlett?

  Inspirational, motivational.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  Good. See, all of a sudden now, and I'm thinking, running towards something.

• 2:20Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Right? And again, there's a part of me that thinks, oh, cheesy commercial, right? There's that part of it too. So you can hear all these different things. Let's try one more. This one will shift gears again. What about this one?

• 2:34Steven Bartlett?

  Uh, like a horror movie. Scary.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  About to die.

• 2:38Steven Bartlett?

  Yes.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Something bad's about to happen. Omnis.

• 2:40Steven Bartlett?

  Little three-year-old stood on the landing of the staircase at night time.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Yes, with long, black hair.

• 2:45Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Yes, correct. So that, again, all of a sudden, paints all these different vivid pictures in your head. The reason I did that experiment is there were no words in any of those tracks. Yet, think about all of the words that rushed to your mind as you were experiencing the melody, the different notes. What people fail to realise is that you have a melody in your voice.

• 3:10Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  This is why when some people walk into our lives, it could drain the energy from our lives. And when they walk in, you feel the impact of them walking in, right? In the negative way or a positive way. Some walk in and you go, oh, I feel good. I feel great. What is that? It's the melody in which they come in with.

• 3:27Steven Bartlett?

  Can you have a pretty limited range, a limited melody, but still hit people with scary and sad and inspiring?

• 3:36Speaker 01

  I believe you can.

• 3:37Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Again, because we genuinely don't have 88 keys, right? So again, it's one of those, it's a metaphor. But I believe that we can create so many different songs with our voice if we learn to treat it as an instrument. And we can, we can play with the technique to help you increase your vocal range if you want.

• 3:53Steven Bartlett?

  Sure.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  There's something called a, this is fun. This is a fun one. There's something called a siren technique.

• 3:59Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Okay, so a siren technique is when you, you read something with a low voice and then you go towards a high voice and you go back down to a low voice. So now, I don't want you to do it to start with. I just want you to read this as you would and then we'll try the siren technique. So just read it as you would neutrally first. So just read that as you would.

• 4:14Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, so for those that can't see, Vin has passed me a card.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, cue cards.

• 4:17Steven Bartlett?

  And on the card, it has a bunch of words, which I'm just gonna read.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  And then, as you're listening at home, have a guess of what movie this is from.

• 4:22Steven Bartlett?

  Wanna know how I got these scars? My father was a drinker and a fiend. And one night, he goes off crazier than usual. Mummy gets the kitchen knife to defend herself. He doesn't like that, not one bit. So me watching, he takes the knife to her, laughing while he does it. Turns to me and he says, why so serious, son? Comes at me with the knife. Why so serious? He sticks the blade in my mouth. Let's put a smile on that face. And why so serious?

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Beautiful. What movie is that from?

• 4:50Steven Bartlett?

  No idea. I don't watch movies.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Are you serious? Dark Knight, the Joker.

• 4:53Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  So Heat Pleasure, so amazing. Okay, cool, great. So again, you read that in your neutral voice. Now what we're gonna do is we're gonna play with the instrument.

• 4:59Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  So the siren technique is when you read with a really low voice and then gradually you go to a high voice. And I'm gonna challenge you to not be afraid to go into the falsetto. Not be afraid to play.

• 5:07Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Just play. And it's not about going low at the start and then high at the bottom. Within each sentence, I want you to go up and down, up and down. I really want you to play with your voice. Otherwise, I'm gonna push you.

• 5:19Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  Okay. In three, two.

• 5:21Steven Bartlett?

  Go for it.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  Wanna know how I got these scars? My father was a drinker and a fiend.

• 5:28Steven Bartlett?

  Good.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  And one night he does a-

• 5:30Steven Bartlett?

  How crazier than usual.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Mummy gets the kitchen knives-

• 5:35Steven Bartlett?

  To defend herself.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  Good.

• 5:37Steven Bartlett?

  Wow.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Hurts. Now try to go in a way where it is a little more even. Just give it a go. But normally you won't be able to because you won't have all of the range fully expanded. Try again. Keep going. He doesn't like that, not one bit.

• 5:50Steven Bartlett?

  Good.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  So me watching.

• 5:54Steven Bartlett?

  He takes the knife to her.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:56Steven Bartlett?

  Laughing while he does it.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Good. Turns to me. And he says.

• 6:03Steven Bartlett?

  Why so serious, son?

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Fantastic. That's fantastic. You did a great job, right?

• 6:09Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  But you feel that feeling you feel right now.

• 6:11Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, weird.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Yes. And it's not so much about getting you to speak like that on the podcast, but it's more just helping you realise this instrument that you have is capable of so much more.

• 6:22Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  There is so much more that it can do as opposed to what we normally do with it. Right? Because for the longest time in my life, I didn't have any melody. Because I just thought this was how you talk. And the reason I can switch to this very quickly, Stephen, is because I practised these behaviours for about 25 years. What's even more interesting is they've done studies where they had five or six people talking at the same time. And the person who the person heard was the person who had more melody in their voice.

• 6:49Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, really?

• 6:49Speaker 01

  The person who is more melodic, what they say becomes more memorable. Whereas if all of us were speaking like this, me, yourself, Jack, everyone, all of a sudden, you wouldn't hear. You wouldn't be able to hear the difference.

• 7:00Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Whereas all of a sudden, if you just start to play with your voice a little more.

• 7:05Steven Bartlett?

  How do you know you've not played with it too far? Do you know what I'm saying?

• 7:08Speaker 01

  By playing with it too far and then getting feedback.

• 7:10Steven Bartlett?

  Right.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  And people are so afraid of that, though. And they don't realise that they don't go too far. They underplay. The risk is not going too far. The risk is not going far enough.

• 7:21Steven Bartlett?

  Again, at this point, when people heard me

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course, of course.

• 7:24Steven Bartlett?

  squeaking like Mickey Mouse.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:25Steven Bartlett?

  They're gonna say, fuck me. Like, you're gonna have to remind me again, Vin, why this is worth it.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  You'll be able to make people feel more connected to you. They'll feel what you're saying, not just hear what you're saying. I mean, do you notice this in some people?

• 7:36Steven Bartlett?

  Of course.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  They will say things, but you don't feel it. It happens in America's Got Talent, Australia's Got Talent, where Simon Cowell will say, right, right, very good, but I don't feel it. What are they talking about? It's the emotion in their voice.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  There is emotion in your voice, too. Do you want to go to the next one?

• 7:52Steven Bartlett?

  Please. I didn't know there was more.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  There's more, yeah, there's five. Let's go through all five. Now, the next one, I'm just gonna get you to read this one as you would, and then I'll tell you what it is.

• 7:59Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  Just so you don't get ahead of yourself.

• 8:01Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Okay, cool. And see, tell me, please tell me you know this movie. Fire out, Stephen.

• 8:06Steven Bartlett?

  I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you that I don't have money. But I do have, but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you. I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you. I will find you and I will kill you.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Yes, very dark movies. I love these movies. What movie is this?

• 8:35Steven Bartlett?

  That is the movie called, where he, his daughter gets kidnapped.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  What's it called?

• 8:40Steven Bartlett?

  He's like, oh, did we?

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Yes, it's, that's with an L, his name.

• 8:43Steven Bartlett?

  Lion King, I'm joking. No, what is it?

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Right, from Taken. But here's the thing. So the next foundation is rate of speech.

• 8:52Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  So if you were reading that, and I was kind of just giving you some coaching, again, as you were reading that, think of rate of speech of having a scale from zero to 10.

• 8:59Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  All right, so one being painfully slow and 10 being as quick as you possibly can, right? So you were around playing around a five. Very comfortable, that's your default rate of speech. Most of us, when we're nervous, we just have a default rate of speech. We fall victim to a default rate of speech. When you think about rate of speech, there's a way to use it. And the way you use rate of speech is If you really wanna highlight a point, creating an auditory highlight, slow down. That creates an auditory highlight. It's like a highlighter with your words. And if you want to be able to show charisma, energy, you speed up. And if it's not as important, you can speed up, and that's fine. This simple rule gives you vocal variety with your rate of speech. That simple rule.

• 9:38Steven Bartlett?

  And what does changing my rate of speech then do to the message I'm communicating? It makes it more memorable, clear, okay?

• 9:45Speaker 01

  There's more clarity in it, right? So for example, if I was speaking and I said, "Right now, I'm gonna go through the five core vocal foundations, and I'm gonna take you first one through is the rate of speech. Then after that, I'm gonna talk to you about pitch and melody. And then after that, I'll talk to you about the importance of the other three." Right now, you have no idea what is important and what is not important.

• 9:59Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, right.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Whereas all of a sudden now, if I said, "I'm going to take you through the core five vocal foundations." All of a sudden, you now have a point of focus. And the big thing that people want with their communication is clarity. Well, if you are going to be more clear, the delivery needs to be clear so that the receiver gets what you intend.

• 10:19Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  It's not just about the exchange of information, because how I say something impacts how you receive it.

• 10:24Steven Bartlett?

  So I wanna slow down where I wanna hit emphasis?

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Yes, and this script has multiple places where you wanna slow down.

• 10:29Steven Bartlett?

  When people are nervous.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:31Steven Bartlett?

  What happens?

• 10:32Speaker 01

  They speed up.

• 10:33Steven Bartlett?

  They speed up.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  They speed up.

• 10:34Steven Bartlett?

  Considerably.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  Considerably.

• 10:36Steven Bartlett?

  And have they ever measured that?

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 10:39Steven Bartlett?

  Does anybody know?

• 10:40Speaker 01

  If you get above 210 words per minute, you're a little bit too fast.

• 10:43Steven Bartlett?

  And what's the average person speaking at in terms of words per minute?

• 10:45Speaker 01

  Around 150. You wanna get to around 150, 180. That's very good. That's a good kind of rate of speech to be at. Whereas if you're slower than that, then again, it just gets a little bit monotonous at times for people. But again,

• 10:58Speaker 01

  here's what's fascinating. If I, if all of a sudden now, I stick to a default melody and then stick to a default rate of speech, notice what's happening in your brain, right? All of a sudden, you start, again, you start to switch off, right? Whereas all of a sudden, if I start to vary my rate of speech, the transition from slow to fast is what's hooking people. So if you were to try to read that again now, but I want you to slow, and some bits painfully slow down and play with your voice, and then some bits go quicker, and then the last bit, I'm gonna kill you, slow it all the way down. And be playful. It's not about...

• 11:30Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, I'm gonna start from here.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 11:33Steven Bartlett?

  If you're looking for a ransom.

• 11:36Steven Bartlett?

  I can tell you that I don't have money.

• 11:40Steven Bartlett?

  But what I do have are a particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Let's skip to the end.

• 11:54Steven Bartlett?

  If you let my daughter go, that will be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you, but if you don't, I will look for you. I will find you. And I will

• 12:16Steven Bartlett?

  kill you.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Yes, give him a big round of applause. That was amazing, right? But again, you feel so strange when you do it.

• 12:24Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, I do.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  It's so fun to listen to. And, and, and again, this is us practicing. This is a safe environment. I'm not, don't do your next podcast like that. But again, it just goes to show the range that we have access to.

• 12:36Steven Bartlett?

  And how it changes the message in such a profound way. It's the same words.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  It's the same words, but when you read it the first time, it didn't sound scary at all. Now I feel scared.

• 12:45Steven Bartlett?

  There's something, I, I noticed this in like board meetings and stuff, especially with like younger team members or people that would class themselves as being shy, that they do hurry along. And there is a certain, someone said to me the other day that people that have the most confidence and charisma, they like move and talk as if a lot, if they were a lion. You know, they're slow and they're composed.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  Predator versus predator. I remember listening to the episode. It's fantastic.

• 13:09Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  There is, it's people who are confident take their time.

• 13:13Steven Bartlett?

  What's that third one?

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Okay. Just read part of it.

• 13:16Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, read it.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Read part of it. You, you're more than happy to freestyle. Read part of it.

• 13:20Steven Bartlett?

  Now, if you know what you are worth, then go out and get what you are worth, but you have to be willing to take the hits and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you want to be because of him or her or anybody. Cowards do that. And that ain't you. You're better than that.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Now, the thing is, this next one is volume.

• 13:38Steven Bartlett?

  Oh shit.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. Volume so critical.

• 13:41Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  For many different reasons. Volume is the lifeblood of your voice. Volume carries all the other foundations you're about to learn. Volume carries the melody. Volume carries the rate of speech. It carries everything. And again, I think of it as having a scale of from one to 10. And a lot of the times, like what you just did, people are around a three, a four. And they stay around there. When you use volume, there's two ways to auditorily highlight something with volume. Volume's fascinating because with way to speech, you slow down. But with volume, to highlight something, you could go very quiet.

• 14:18Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  So if all of a sudden I wanted to say something scary, I could lower my volume and say it.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  But then all of a sudden, notice what happens if I just stay here now? What started as a great verbal highlight now just kind of seems, doesn't seem effective anymore. Because if you make something default, it becomes non-functional.

• 14:37Steven Bartlett?

  And what signals I'm not a confident person? What side of the scale?

• 14:42Speaker 01

  The lower scale.

• 14:43Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  On volume.

• 14:44Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  Because that's one of the default shy behaviours that a lot of people exhibit.

• 14:49Steven Bartlett?

  And what about leaders? Where do they land on the scale?

• 14:52Speaker 01

  Depends if they're self-aware. Sometimes if they're not self-aware, they can be on the higher end. And that's, you know, you just have someone come across as a little arrogant. Sometimes there's just too much volume. Because too much volume without the other foundations, now you come across arrogant. So again, if I give this back to you, and again, just for fun, like, I want you to go loud. I want people to hear outside of the studio what we're doing.

• 15:12Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, fuck.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  So just have a go and just, and give me, and give me a whisper too. At some point, give me a whisper too.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Now, if you know what you're worth, go out and get it. Go out and get what you're worth. But you have to be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you ain't where you want to be because of him or her or anybody. Cowards do that, and that ain't you.

• 15:38Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  You're better than that. Oh, it's amazing.

• 15:42Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  What you just did made me feel, why did I feel? What is a voice? A voice is a series of vibrations. So you just sent vibrations my way that made me feel. That's why we say people have good vibes, right? We kind of, we, we understand it's happening, but we don't understand at that kind of frequency level, at the vibration level. But it's happening at a physical level. Where depending on how you use your voice, you're genuinely moving people quite physically.

• 16:10Steven Bartlett?

  We did rate of speech, we did volume, we did the melody.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  Pitch and melody, yeah.

• 16:14Steven Bartlett?

  And then there's two left, right?

• 16:16Speaker 01

  There's two left, yeah.

• 16:17Steven Bartlett?

  Right.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  So this one, read it as you would, parts of it.

• 16:20Steven Bartlett?

  And it's not because I'm lonely, and it's not because it's New Year's Eve. I came here tonight because when you realise you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  What we're moving into now is the emotion that exists within your voice, tonality. This is the emotion that exists, right? So the way to add more emotion into your voice is to move your face. Because, as I eloquently put it at times, your face is the remote control that allows you to add emotion into your voice. So let's play, right? So now, I'll give you different faces to make, I'll tell you different faces to make, and you make those different faces and allow those emotions to come through your voice.

• 16:56Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  So if it's happy, then I want you to sound really happy. If it's sad, I want you to sound really sad. So we'll start with, and try your best to play with this. I want you to make disgust, like just, ugh, disgust, and let that come through, and give me a more volume. Give me disgust in three, two.

• 17:10Steven Bartlett?

  And it's not because you're lonely.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:13Steven Bartlett?

  And it's not because it's New Year's Eve.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  Surprised, really surprised.

• 17:18Steven Bartlett?

  I came here tonight because when you realise you want to spend the rest of your life.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Angry, give me angry.

• 17:24Steven Bartlett?

  You want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Happy, best of your life, Stephen.

• 17:28Steven Bartlett?

  You want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  That's so beautiful. You know this already, in our brains, there's mirror neurons, all right? And when I see you go through these different facial expressions, I feel what you feel. Even though I know this is a situation we've created here for us to experiment in, it's a safe environment, but every time you went through any of those emotions, I felt it. Because I didn't just see it.

• 17:50Steven Bartlett?

  Are men worse at this stuff?

• 17:51Speaker 01

  Yes, they are. Yes, because I feel, well, for me, I can only speak personally for me, I was taught to keep my emotions on the inside.

• 17:58Steven Bartlett?

  Right.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  I was taught that it's a sign of weakness to show you being sad, you being happy, you should just be.

• 18:04Steven Bartlett?

  Composed.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  Composed at all times. And then that's what I thought, and that led me to the behaviour of speaking, whereas I would just always speak like this, because I'm a man, and I should always speak like this. And I still remember going to one of the concerts and my wife turns up, she goes, "How do you feel?" I'm like, "This is a really exciting concert."

• 18:23Speaker 01

  And she goes, "Well, okay, you obviously hate it." And I'm like, "No, no, I love it, I love it." And I just, I didn't know how to emote. And again, I thought I was stuck like that, because I was stuck like that for years. And that damaged a lot of my relationships. Because here's the thing that I think. And it might be helpful for you too. When you're listening to someone talk, you don't have to react with sound. Because otherwise you'll be seen as interrupting the other person, right? You can react with facial expressions. And that is one of the most powerful ways to show them you're listening and that you're following along. How cool is that? Because if someone's saying something really bad and you're like,

• 18:57Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  It shows them you're locked in.

• 18:59Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, you learn it as a podcaster.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do.

• 19:01Steven Bartlett?

  Because the audience, they're looking at you for most of the conversations. So 95% of the conversation is on you.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:07Steven Bartlett?

  What they don't know is that throughout that time, I'm basically talking to you with my face.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  You are, and you're really good at it.

• 19:14Steven Bartlett?

  So if I turn my head like this, it means tell me more. So I'll be, you'll be talking and go like this.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:19Steven Bartlett?

  And it means tell me more.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:20Steven Bartlett?

  And then it's, it's interesting.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  And you can expand that range.

• 19:23Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  It doesn't just have to be curious.

• 19:25Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  And because I see you do it.

• 19:26Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  I see you consistently do the different faces to give me the cue to almost go, oh, he wants to elaborate. Oh, he's in, he's locked in.

• 19:32Steven Bartlett?

  Do you know, you can, the thing I've learned from both speaking on stage but also doing this is you can also fuck it up. You can also communicate the wrong thing.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:39Steven Bartlett?

  Accidentally, one of them that people communicate quite often with accidentally is they start talking while you're speaking. Do you ever know that, like when someone's listening to speak? They start, they start going like this, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it means shut the fuck up, I need to, I have something to say. So yeah.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  I just did it too.

• 19:59Steven Bartlett?

  Not like that, but it's that kind of, no, but it's that kind of thing. It's like, you know, I think, who was on my podcast? It was Vanessa, she said, if you do the fast nod, it means shut the fuck up. So if you go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you do the slow nod, it means, oh, I love this. So if I go, hmm.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  Oh, I learned something. That's curiosity, tell me more.

• 20:17Steven Bartlett?

  Versus, yeah.

• 20:21Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah, and wave my hand, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so tonality, so emotion.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  And that was so beautiful to see you do that. Because it just, again, we just have such great range. And then imagine you start to vary your rate of speech now. You vary volume, you've got different melody. You've also got different facial expressions. This is such a rich song that you're playing now.

• 20:42Steven Bartlett?

  What you just listened to was a most replayed moment from a previous episode. If you want to listen to that full episode, I've linked it down below. Check the description. Thank you.