How to enjoy poetry — without being a poet (w/ Naisha Randhar)

In honor of National Poetry Month, Chris is speaking with Naisha Randhar. Naisha is the Youth Poet Laureate of Dallas, the author of Roses of Arma, and the youngest guest Chris has ever interviewed — she’s a high school sophomore. Chris and Naisha talk about the inspiring work of teaching teenagers poetry and how to balance self-awareness with self-confidence. Naisha also encourages listeners to be witnesses more than interpreters and how it’s equally important to witness yourself and your presence in the world. Follow Host: Chris Duffy (Instagram https://www.instagram.com/chrisiduffy/?hl=en |Website https://chrisduffycomedy.com/) Links Youth Poet Laureate of Dallas https://dallaslibrary2.org/poetry/youthpoetlaureate.php Roses of Arma https://bookshop.org/p/books/roses-of-arma-naisha-randhar/17509088?ean=9781639403479&next=t by Naisha Randhar Subscribe to TED Instagram: @ted https://www.instagram.com/ted/?hl=en YouTube: @TED https://www.youtube.com/@TED TikTok: @tedtoks https://www.tiktok.com/@tedtoks LinkedIn: @ted-conferences https://www.linkedin.com/company/ted-conferences Website: ted.com www.ted.com Podcasts: ted.com/podcasts https://www.ted.com/podcasts For the full text transcript, visit go.ted.com/BHTranscripts http://go.ted.com/BHTranscripts For the full text transcript, visit go.ted.com/BHTranscripts https://go.ted.com/BHTranscripts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Chris Duffy?

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• 0:46Chris Duffy?

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• 1:25Chris Duffy?

  Donate at N R D C dot org slash human, and your gift will be matched five times. You're listening to How to Be a Better Human. I'm your host, Chris Duffy. We have interviewed a lot of different people on this show, people from all different kinds of backgrounds from all over the world who do all sorts of different, incredible, amazing things. But today's guest, Nisha Randhar, is the first person in the history of our show who is still currently a high school student. Now, Naisha is so much more than just a high schooler. I don't mean to minimize her by focusing on her age. She's a writer and the youth poet laureate of Dallas, where she lives. And Naisha is also someone who believes really deeply in the power and

• 2:07Chris Duffy?

  potential of words. For me personally, this is a time and a moment where I am frankly, struggling to see the wonder and the beauty in the world around me. And that is part of what I really loved about talking to Naisha. She looks at the world through the eyes of a young person, not willing to accept the injustices or the broken pieces of this world. But she also looks at the world through the eyes of a poet, finding the creativity and the art in the everyday. I bet that whatever age you are, you are going to find something really special and personally connect to something that Naisha has to say. Here's a clip from one of her poems.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  Elegy for J.D. Suther. It's a Tuesday in September. J.D. Suther is dead. The night is a loud canary on crutches. "Everyone's dying," you say. I grieve in the gap of your sentence. Let me slip into other worlds. The ocean floor is always moving, reckless as a flat raccoon in the

• 3:20Speaker 01

  road. I've hit the point in the harbor where everything is green. From here, the stars all look the same. Isn't that a kind of ode? There is a mourning in my throat, trying to break. You forgot my brother on the subway, the way a child forgets a balloon. Isn't that right? We float away.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  Like a bed sheet, I bloom in the wind. Grief is a signal of muscle memory I meet reopened like a flower. I believed you could touch through darkness.

• 4:19Chris Duffy?

  Here she is, the Youth Poet Laureate of Dallas, Texas, Naisha Randhar.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Hi, my name is Naisha. I'm a sophomore and author of the book called The Roses of Arma, and I'm the poet laureate of Dallas.

• 4:30Chris Duffy?

  What got you started in poetry? What sparked your initial interest in writing poetry and reading poetry?

• 4:36Speaker 01

  So technically, I've been writing poetry since I was around seven years old. And it was after I read a book about a girl who was experiencing homelessness when she was 12. And she also wrote poetry to get through that. But I would say that the moments that really sealed the deal for me with poetry was after I became the laureate. So I was already really obsessed with it enough that I wanted to become the Dallas Youth Poet Laureate. But then after I got to actually share my poems and have moments of connection with people, and also for the first time realizing that a community of contemporary poetry does exist and that poets are living, breathing people and people that I can also be like,

• 5:18Speaker 01

  that really made me want to pursue poetry and become a poet.

• 5:25Chris Duffy?

  Something that it makes me think of is when I was in elementary school, I was obsessed with reference books. Like I bought all these books or asked for my birthday books that were like the most obscure words or superior words. And I would be like so excited to learn that like de-fenestrate means the act of throwing someone out a window. It seems like you have a similar excitement about words and the way that you can use a word to mean so many different things and communicate so much nuance.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. I love learning about words. It's my favorite thing. And the first time I was getting into poetry, poetry can be a really intimidating art form to get into because there's so much, there's so much of a narrative around it that like you have to be really smart to get it or you have to be really educated to get it. Or if you don't get what it means, then poetry isn't for you. So getting into it, I remember that I would start reading a poem and I would actually get anxiety every time I read that poem because I was so scared of not getting what it meant. But I remember the first time I started truly falling in love with poetry was when I realized that poems were just made up of language that excited me. And that was like such a familiar topic to me because I've been writing since I was really

• 6:38Speaker 01

  young and I've been doing fiction, poetry for as long as I can remember, and storytelling. So, yeah, I'm really fascinated by words and how multifaceted they are and how they can convey so many contradictions, especially within a poem.

• 6:58Chris Duffy?

  Why do you think that poetry is an important art form for young people in particular to engage with?

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Poetry is so important for everybody, I think. But for young people specifically, I think that young people are so often driven away from poetry because of the stigma that surrounds it. And they so often, me as well, had like a convoluted view of what poetry actually is. Actually, there was this this past National Youth poet laureate named Cara Jackson, and I don't want to misquote her, but she said something similar to like, when teachers allow kids to call poetry boring, they are denying them the right to feel moved. So I think that like, the freedom that comes with poetry, the self-expression, but also

• 7:52Speaker 01

  just the opportunity to like, sit with yourself and the world in silence and to recognize yourself and notice yourself for the first time is something that is so important. And I think that kids want that especially, like they want to recognize themselves, they want to find themselves. And it can be so reckless to be a teenager who is also into poetry because there's just so much mystery with that existence. There's like, you don't have any of the answers in anything. But I also think that's why It's so specifically suited for being a human, of course, but also being a teenager when you're still discovering yourself. Poetry isn't asking for answers. It isn't giving you any answers.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  It's just allowing you to sit with it and to discover something about yourself in the meantime.

• 8:41Chris Duffy?

  But I'm curious to get your perspective on why it's important for older people, too, for people in middle age or elderly people.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, part of that is just returning to the returning to our instincts. I mean, so many brilliant poets have talked about why they think poetry matters, and it's such an ever-evolving conversation.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  I think that poetry is probably one of the art forms that is closest to the human experience. So one of my favorite poets, Morgan Parker, talked about how poetry is like a sensory overload and how it engages all the senses. And people are scared of it because it doesn't necessarily make logical sense. But it still has the ability of being closer to how we actually experience the world, which maybe doesn't make sense or doesn't follow a logical progression, but is more of like a sensory overload. So I feel like in that way, people are naturally drawn to poetry because it's so instinctive.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  And especially in like today's culture where we're covering so much of ourselves up and we live in a culture that prizes productivity over everything. I think taking a moment to sit with a poem is one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself.

• 10:03Chris Duffy?

  You know, I come at this as a comedian, and I think there's a lot of terrible comedy out there, very, very, very bad comedy. And there's a lot of terrible music. And I think that no one would argue that the existence of bad comedy or bad music means that we shouldn't also appreciate like great comedy or great music, right? And yet I think people do have that feeling a lot of times with poetry, where it's like, yeah, I read three bad poems and I hated them. So now I think poetry is bad.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:30Chris Duffy?

  And I feel like that's a real loss.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  It's so funny to me because it's so silly to think you read one poem and you don't like it or you don't get it or whatever. And then you just move on from poetry altogether because poetry is so huge. And you can't judge an art form off of one poem, of course. Yeah, I I don't know. I think that's part of what's so intimidating about people. It's easier to say, oh, I read this poem. I didn't like it. And then I'll just move on from it.

• 10:56Chris Duffy?

  I'm positive that someone is listening to the podcast right now and is saying like, wow, this is so interesting. I'm sold, but I don't actually read a lot of poetry. I don't actually know poems. So what would you say are some ways that they should get started to find the poems that speak to them?

• 11:12Speaker 01

  I started with contemporary poetry, so I didn't really know that contemporary poetry existed. And that was life changing for me because it's not, you know, it's English that like still is used in today's world. So it's like conversational, a lot of it. So it's not as scary to approach it. Okay, my first recommendation would be Ada Limone, who I think has like pretty accessible poetry. This is my first reading of her. Bright Dead Things is a really phenomenal collection. And from there, I kind of branched out. And I also think it's really important to be patient with yourself. Like, like, like you said,

• 11:57Speaker 01

  reading a poem and not liking it is the same as listening to a song on the radio and not liking it. All you do is like change the song. You don't have to get scared about it. So if this specific poet isn't your thing, just keep looking and you'll find someone who is your thing, who you do get on a deeper level.

• 12:17Chris Duffy?

  That's a great way to start. Honestly, that's great. I think, and I, I think, you know, so often when I talk to people about poetry, the thing that is the barrier isn't even like, oh, I don't like Ada Limone versus I prefer, you know, Billy Collins or something like that. It's like, I thought all poems had to rhyme. Like, I thought all poems were roses are red, violets are blue. Like, that's what a lot of people are starting from is thinking that that's what poetry is, is that the limits of poetry.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. Actually, I think this is kind of a funny thing that was said to me once. Someone said to me, they were like, yeah, no, good and bad poems don't exist. It's just like all poetry, you know? And I, I thought that was so. Funny, because I think saying that good poems don't exist is also saying that like, poetry is completely valueless, because what's the point of reading poetry if it can't be good? But I think a lot of people do have that mindset of like, oh, poetry is just poetry. Like, what does it even, what does it even mean, you know? And they have like these set expectations, like you said, oh, it has to rhyme, it has to do this, it has to be that. And actually, poems that are being written are so diverse and different. And sometimes you look at them and you're like, I didn't even know this can be a poem, but it is a poem.

• 13:29Chris Duffy?

  Hmm. There's also, you know, this wide range of what is poetry, of course, right? At the, at the risk of sounding very like, classic middle school teacher, I'm like, you know, the lyrics to a song are also poetry. And did you know a lot of rap music is poetry? But, but like, that's true in a way. And then

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:47Chris Duffy?

  Also, you know, spoken word is a very specific form of poetry, as well as like written poems. And you have all the historical forms that play around with rigid structures. It, it is just a really wide swath of literature.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. I actually got started, I moved into like the written poems with spoken word. So I started off, I think sometime in middle school, I would go home every day and I would listen to spoken word poems. And I still really love spoken word. I think they do different things. But yeah, that's how I sort of transitioned into written poetry.

• 14:24Chris Duffy?

  I want to talk to you a little bit about the creative process. You published your first book, Roses Varma, at 12, 12 years old. I am working on this book right now. It's gonna hopefully come out in 2026. And it is a tough process to write a book. So I'm curious to hear, like, what was your creative process like? How did you approach it? And what did you learn about creativity as you were working on a book?

• 14:49Speaker 01

  Ooh, honestly, I was literally just like an 11 year old messing around.

• 14:57Chris Duffy?

  That's a great way to do it. Maybe that's the solution.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, honestly, just don't take any of it seriously.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  I, people always ask me this and I feel this so much because now whenever I sit down to write, it feels more difficult to think of like writing a novel than when I was eleven years old. And I wanted to write a novel since I was eight. So if you asked me what I wanted to be when I was eight years old, I would have been like the greatest author in the world. And that was literally like my genuine, serious go-to answer. I was like, I'm gonna become a millionaire off of books. I'm gonna be number one. Yeah, so I wrote like pretty much non-stop until I ended up with this book. And I don't even know, I couldn't tell you how it happened. I don't know what led to that book.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  I literally, I sat down one day, just like every other day, and I was like, I'm gonna write a book. And all the other days I'd written like maybe twenty pages, fifty pages. At some point I wrote like two hundred eighty pages of a book, but none of it had actually ever finished. So this book, it was written during lockdown. And I was such an introvert back then that I had a grand old time during lockdown, writing my fantasy novel. And I planned out the whole thing for the first time. And I don't know, I genuinely just had so much fun writing it. I'm sure there were po- points where it was so difficult for me to write.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  But for some reason, when I was younger, it just came so easy to me. As an eleven-year-old, which is really fun for me and good for me then, I guess.

• 16:39Chris Duffy?

  Yeah, it makes me think too, that I think often when you talk to people about the struggles of a creative process or of, of writing something, or making art, or music, or whatever, i- it's often the really hard part is getting out of your own way, is just doing it, right? And it sounds like you're saying a little bit of that too, of like, as you've gotten older, it is harder to get out of your own way.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. And I was so, I don't wanna say like arrogant, but I was so delusional about how good I was. I genuinely thought I was the best writer my age in the world. It was not even funny. Like, it would be so embarrassing if I met myself now. There was no self-doubt. There was nothing stopping me from going to the page. I genuinely just had so much fun doing it. And I also had like a crap ton of time because it was locked down. So I didn't have to worry about that either.

• 17:33Chris Duffy?

  What do you think is the the balance between like self-awareness and that confidence in yourself? Where, you know, it's good as an artist to have some level of self-awareness because then you can edit things and make them better, but you also have to have a little bit of that wild self-confidence to think you can actually do it in the first place. So as as it sounds like you've changed those dials over the years, what what do you think is the ideal dial for yourself? Where are you trying to trying to line them up?

• 18:00Speaker 01

  I generally don't think that writers are the best judges of their own work. But I mean, for me, I think you do have to have that kind of obsession where like even if I'm writing just crap right now and I'm I've been writing crap for like months, I'm still going to keep showing up to see if I can hit that gold mine and then it'll all be worth it. I go through periods as a writer where I think I'm the worst writer in the world and also periods are like, okay, this isn't so bad. You know, it's like this crazy up and down. I don't know how other writers experience it. But I think for me, the thing that motivates me and carries me through is just the complete

• 18:45Speaker 01

  obsession because I don't think that I could live without writing. I think it's integral to my existence and there's not a choice of whether I choose poetry today or not. Like I poetry is something that I have to do and I have to make time for. And I think dealing with that kind of sort of veil that you have when you're looking at your own work is mostly just bringing it to other people. I also think sometimes there is this feeling that you get. I don't know, whenever you're writing a poem and I think the best poems are poems that surprise you. So when you're writing a poem and you reach a point where the poem is kind of writing itself and it's doing something unexpected, that's kind of the point where you know that

• 19:30Speaker 01

  you've hit your mark. So I don't know, I just write for that and I try not to concern myself too much with what I think of like, is this good or not? I try to concern myself more with how it makes me feel and what I am, how I'm responding to it in my body and internally to see if it's something that is worth continuing with.

• 19:55Chris Duffy?

  We're going to take a quick break, but let me tell you, this episode is worth continuing with, so we will be right back. Don't go anywhere.

• 20:09Chris Duffy?

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• 20:51Chris Duffy?

  environmental change. In partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, this is Planet Visionaries. Listen or watch wherever you get your podcasts.

• 21:03Chris Duffy?

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• 22:46Chris Duffy?

  And we are back. In 2024, you were named the Dallas Youth Poet Laureate. Can you tell us a little bit about how that happened and what that's meant?

• 22:55Speaker 01

  I became the Dallas Youth Poet Laureate. I applied when I was 15 years old. And I found out about it from Amanda Gorman, who performed at Biden's inauguration in 2021. And she was a National Youth Poet Laureate, but she got there by first being the L.A. Youth Poet Laureate. So I discovered that from her. And after that, I decided that that was how I was going to get there. And being the Dallas Youth Poet Laureate was kind of a job that I wasn't... That became so much more than I expected. I think in a lot of cities, being a laureate can kind of just be a symbolic job. But in Dallas, it really is such a literary community

• 23:37Speaker 01

  that you're being invited to events so constantly that it can be overwhelming. But it's really special, and I'm so grateful that I got to be here.

• 23:46Chris Duffy?

  What did you learn over the course of playing that role? Of being the person that people look to when they want to find a youth poet?

• 23:53Speaker 01

  The most important thing was that poetry is relevant. After becoming a laureate, you bring poetry to so many people who probably didn't have experiences with it before. And it's really incredible to see, especially with kids, how they interact with poetry and to witness them discovering it for the first time. There's this paradox in society where it's like, oh, nobody cares about poetry. Poetry's falling off. Like, no one even knows that it exists anymore. And there's also people who are like, poetry is so important. How is it coming back? Why are people reading it more now? With a lot of the interactions that I've had, I've met people and they're always like,

• 24:35Speaker 01

  "Yeah, I read poetry when I was in college," or "I used to really love poetry. I used to write poems," or "I have this favorite poet." And it's just opening my mind to see that so many people genuinely do have so many experiences with poetry and do love poetry. They just didn't have time or the experience to cultivate that. So it's been really incredible to see how we can bring that back in people as or yet.

• 25:01Chris Duffy?

  Something that I'm struck by in this conversation and also just in general about poetry is the idea that it can help us cultivate this way of looking at the world, of seeing these small, amazing things and feeling awe and wonder, feelings that I think a lot of us don't necessarily feel on a day-to-day basis. What are three things that people who are listening can do to see more of the poetry in the world around them?

• 25:26Speaker 01

  After reading poetry, I've seen poetry everywhere. And it is really just a matter of looking more.

• 25:33Chris Duffy?

  Well, you've got two right there. Read more poetry. Look more.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  Reading poetry, of course. I think everyone should read poetry, not to be so self-important, but I do think everyone should read poetry. And I also think that we, as people, need to be witnesses more than interpreters. So oftentimes, when we go out into the world, we're trying to interpret something or find an answer or understand. But the thing about poetry is in order to write a poem that is true or that feels honest, being a witness to something, especially being a witness to yourself and noticing yourself, while also noticing the world around you without changing it or feeling the need to manipulate it,

• 26:22Speaker 01

  is something that fuels poetry. And then also pay more attention, observe more, pay more attention to the people around you, what they're saying. Oftentimes, I hear something and I'm like, "Oh, that belongs in a poem." Or I see something like, "That's definitely going in a poem." Or I just, I do something really strange and I'm like, "Okay, this is definitely going in a poem." And then also, this is something I do. I don't think everyone has to do this, but I, in my Notes app, I take Notes of everything that I see, like if I see something that belongs in a poem, I write it down, or if I see something that fascinates me, I write it down so that I have this record that I can later go through with my poems and see like what I want to include.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  And I think as people, we could also have that record of our daily lives to find the extraordinary in the ordinary moments.

• 27:13Chris Duffy?

  That is such a good answer. I love that answer. It also makes me think a poet that I love, and you and I have talked about before this interview, Sarah Kay. Sarah Kay has this thing about like, the universe has already written the poem that you were trying to write. And she has that in a poem where she's describing the way that starlings form the image of a bigger bird, all these small birds making up the image of a bigger bird. And for her, that's the poem that she was trying to write is already out there in the world when these birds fly.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. I mean, poetry is just a failure of trying to translate something else. You know, it's like getting close to something, but not being able to pinpoint that exact thing.

• 27:52Chris Duffy?

  I want to go back to the thing you said about witnessing rather than translating. It strikes me that that's something that our culture doesn't really value. There's a lot of praise and attention paid to people who are willing to give their interpretation. And here's what this means. And here's the black and white version of the facts, rather than I'm going to just kind of sit with things and see them and not necessarily try and put them in a boxer category.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with that. I feel like we as people could do with bearing witness to things more. I also think it's kind of a coping mechanism for when you see something that maybe threatens you or threatens your beliefs, it's easier just to say, oh, this is what this means, rather than actually looking at what that person is saying and witnessing it for what it is.

• 28:44Chris Duffy?

  To me, there's also a link here between private and public work. So, you know, you can, right? It's possible to write poetry and not share it with anyone, but that's not the work that you do. And for me, that's not the work that I do in terms of my creativity. How does it change when you have to kind of, in a way, trust that you're going to be witnessed in the way you want to be witnessed when you put something out there?

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Since I was seven years old, I'd been writing poetry privately. So I'd go up to my room and I'd write. And there was never, uh, it never occurred to me that anyone else would ever read that. Of course, my end goal was always to be a public poet. I think part of poetry is engaging in that conversation, in that community. And like, part of the thrill of it is sharing it with people. So I think that's why that was always something that just came so naturally to me. Like, of course, I want to do this in the future. I think when you're writing poems, you always have to keep the audience in mind. So that's something that is kind of hard for people to grasp, I think.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  But when you're writing a poem, you consider how the lines you're writing will affect your audience. So for example, if you have a memory that is particularly impactful for you or meaningful for you, but it doesn't mean anything for somebody else, then including that in a poem and then giving that to the world isn't going to do anything, because that's going to be totally meaningless and void for them, even if it is like, heart wrenching for you. So that's, I think, the difference. It takes a lot more thought, but that's also where part of the pleasure comes in for me, is playing around with that and seeing where we as humans intersect and have that interconnectedness,

• 30:30Speaker 01

  where we can figure out what parts will actually impact the most amount of people due to our humanity.

• 30:41Chris Duffy?

  We're gonna take a quick break, but we will be right back.

• 30:54Chris Duffy?

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• 31:39Chris Duffy?

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• 31:46Chris Duffy?

  This episode is sponsored by ADT. It's that time of year again when life gets busy. Back to school, back to work, back to routine. When everyone is out the door and on the go, it's comforting to know your home is taken care of while you're away. ADT makes that part easy. Enjoying the little moments with friends and family is easier when you have one less thing on your mind. With their customizable systems that can be professionally installed, ADT has your home security covered. The ADT Plus app lets you access your whole system from your phone. You can arm, disarm, and even check live camera feeds. Visit ADT.com or call 1-800-ADT-ASAP. When every second counts, count on ADT.

• 32:29Chris Duffy?

  This episode is brought to you by Planet Visionaries, a podcast in partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative. What connects a hidden laboratory in the Amazon, giant pandas in China's mountain forests, research relating to the ocean, and communities living alongside wildlife in India? That's what you'll hear on season six of Planet Visionaries. Stories from the explorers, scientists, and conservation leaders whose work addresses research, biodiversity, and conservation issues in specific locations. Planet Visionaries, hosted by environmental advocate and professional climber Alex Honnold, brings you real stories of discovery, determination, and research and initiatives relating to environmental change.

• 33:12Chris Duffy?

  In partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, this is Planet Visionaries. Listen or watch wherever you get your podcasts.

• 33:24Chris Duffy?

  And we are back. I'm sure that you get this a lot where people say some version of like, "Wow, you are so like wise beyond your years," or "You seem so, you know, you seem like you've been writing for 30 years," or something like that. I bet you people are listening to this and thinking like, "I can't believe she's a teenager." And I'm wondering, like, can you believe you're a teenager? Or are you very much like, "Of course I'm a teenager."

• 33:47Speaker 01

  It's insane because I get this so much. And I think I've had this experience with lauretting, where, you know, as a youth poet laureate, part of what you do is hang out with the youth, you know, you're trying to connect with the young people. And those are people who are my age, who are easy to connect with. And I've been able to connect with them differently and on a deeper level, I think, through poetry. But also, a lot of it is just being the smaller version of the adult poet laureate of Dallas.

• 34:17Chris Duffy?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  And so I'll go to a lot of events that are just like mostly adults, which is where we met. And it's can be really strange to be surrounded by so many people. I remember going to this reading once, and everybody who came up there was like, "Yeah, I got my MFA from here, got my PhD from here." And I was like, "Okay, cool. I'm 15, still in high school." And it's been a really weird experience to see how that bridge happens. I also think that I am very much a 15-year-old. Like, I do 15-year-old things. I say 15-year-old things. I make teenager

• 35:00Speaker 01

  mistakes, just like everyone else my age. And I don't know that I am so much more mature than other people. I just think that I'm more obsessed with something. And so I've dedicated so much of myself to it. And maybe that's what sets me apart. But it's also something that sets all poets apart, because all poets are obsessed with poetry and want to learn as much as they can about poetry.

• 35:27Chris Duffy?

  You know, at this event where we met, I also met, you were there with your dad, and your dad was so like wonderful and thoughtful as well. And I wonder how much of this passion for language and for poetry also comes from your family, from your parents?

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I've been reading since I was really young, and my dad also loves books. But they're both... Engineers, so they're both very like STEM focused. So when I was younger and now, they, they, well, not as much now, cause I think they've accepted their fate, but when I was younger, they, they were like trying to push me more towards STEM and like trying to get me to go to college for something that was STEM related. And part of that is just because it's more practical. So in some ways I am the black sheep of the family where I'm just so set on not doing that and doing the exact opposite of that.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  So in some ways, yeah, I think my dad is a big reader and he really loves English, but I also think that I am probably more obsessed with it than he is.

• 36:37Chris Duffy?

  You, you just hit on one of the things that I think is a, comes up a lot when people talk about poetry, which is practical, that it's not practical. Where do you fall on the poetry is practical versus poetry is impractical?

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Well, I think poetry is instinctive, so I don't think it's, at least for me, it's not a choice of whether do I do this, do I not, like, it doesn't matter if it's practical or not for me. And I also think that since it's a vehicle for allowing us to access or recognize and notice our own humanity and our own interconnectedness, it's the same thing as asking like, is music practical? You know, like if you're considering how many people are suffering in the world, is art really the thing that's going to change all of that? But I also think that as a society, when people are in so much suffering and when people

• 37:31Speaker 01

  are so close to losing themselves, art is what comes in and saves people and allows them to see themselves and see beauty again.

• 37:44Chris Duffy?

  How do you not ignore the world, but also not be completely destroyed by it?

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Scrolling through social media is so difficult when all you see is just people in so much pain. And then there's also the conflict of, of course, I don't want to numb myself to this, but who in their capacity of one person can empathize with all of these people and feel this much pain and not be, like you said, totally destroyed by it? So yeah, I do think that poetry is a way to combat that numbness. And it's partially because you have to stop and you have to listen. And it is something that also already exists within yourself. You're recognizing a part of yourself that already existed.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  And so it's easier to feel that pain, but also feel the contradictions of what it means for a human. You know, like being in pain, but also being in love and being happy while also grieving.

• 38:44Chris Duffy?

  Okay, so when I think of my own time as a sophomore in high school, so much of my energy was about not wanting to stand out, was about figuring out like, how can I possibly fit in? And how can I not say something that's going to be used against me? Whereas you are doing something that really like puts you out there and puts you in the in the public eye. And that isn't something that everyone else is doing. So when you talk to these other young people, to your peers, or to people younger than you in in your role as a poet laureate, how do you talk to them about that, that fear and that desire to to hide themselves away versus putting themselves out there?

• 39:22Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I actually, I did this laureate event once where I took these high schoolers along a trip around Dallas, basically. And I performed these poems for them. And the scariest people to perform poems for are high schoolers, of course. And I remember these poems were spoken word poems and they were so vulnerable and so emotional. And it is one of the most intimidating things to get up to a crowd of just silent, blank stares and to give your poem.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  And I remember giving the first poem and looking at all of them and just seeing nothing on their faces. And being so terrified. And later they came up to me and they were like, I really loved your poem. And I was like, really? I couldn't tell. Vulnerability is so important to me and so is authenticity. Also, it just comes with the job. So you can't really be a poet if you're afraid to talk about certain things or if you're constantly trying to protect yourself. And part of how I dealt with this, I think, I remember wanting to be the poet laureate. And the thing about poetry is people don't think it's cool.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  So you'll be sitting in English class and we'll be talking about a poem. And I'll be so aware that everyone's just like, oh, my God, what are we doing? I'd be like, yeah, but I really love this part. I really love this line break. And part of it, I think, was me just being so unaware. I was just not thinking about what they were thinking at all because I was just so happy with what I was doing. And yeah, it is really scary, especially when you're writing poems that talk about certain things that are really personal to you and they might get published one day or if that's your goal. It's really scary to think everyone in the world, especially your classmates, are gonna have access to that.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  But also, part of it is just, what are you willing to sacrifice? Like, if you don't do this now, you're sacrificing your dream. You're sacrificing poetry. You're sacrificing your own authenticity. Otherwise, yes, you're risking yourself. You're risking other people thinking you're stupid or dumb or you're like a nerd or whatever. But you're also so much closer to doing the thing that you truly wanted to do at your very core. So I think it's like a give and take. I'm willing to trade that and I'm willing to risk someone judging me for being able to do the thing that I love doing the most to its full extent.

• 42:16Chris Duffy?

  What should, what would you want people to think about? Or what's something you would want to say to teachers as they think about poetry and creativity?

• 42:24Speaker 01

  I know it's difficult to teach poetry in a school system. Please try and allow poetry to be an opening rather than a closing. So maybe we should stop asking students what a poem means and start asking them things like, how does this poem make you feel? Or what was your reaction to this poem? And also, please, don't just teach Robert Frost. Please bring some contemporary poets that are not old white men into the classroom, because your syllabus should also represent the kids that you're teaching, and they want to know that they exist. So give them that opportunity.

• 43:09Chris Duffy?

  Okay, what about for parents? What would you say to parents?

• 43:12Speaker 01

  Don't freak out. Don't be scared. Parents probably have a panic attack when their kid's like, oh, I like poetry. I want to be a poet. Allow your kid to experience themselves and to discover themselves through poetry, because it truly is such a magical way to discover yourself and find yourself. And also, pick up poetry. Like, if your kid is reading it, then maybe you should too.

• 43:41Chris Duffy?

  So what about someone who is young? They've graduated from college. They're working their first real job. They're kind of being hit with the real world. What would you say to them about poetry and creativity?

• 43:53Speaker 01

  Poetry is a way for you to remember that the real world exists. And by the real world, I don't mean, you know, your first real job. It is a way for you to remember how to empathize with other people, how to connect with other people, and how to connect with yourself. So if I am going through something that is scary or unknown, I return to poetry, because that art is something that is so steadfast in how it connects me to other people who came before me, and also hu- humans, humanity.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  And the community. So that's something that'll never change and poetry can be that rock for you.

• 44:34Chris Duffy?

  Hmm. And then the last question I have is, I'm just genuinely curious because, like I said, we've, we have not had someone else in, um, in high school before. I, I'm interviewing you on, on Thursday afternoon, evening. Like what, what is next on the agenda for the sophomore version of you as opposed to like the brilliant poet version of you?

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I actually have not done any of my homework and all of it has been left to tonight. I, it takes me like 40 minutes to get home. So I got home and I started preparing for the interview straight away because my school ends at four. So yeah, I have a lot of homework to do after this. I'll probably be up pretty late and I also have my winter formal on Saturday.

• 45:17Chris Duffy?

  Wow. I'm so sorry that we kept you from both homework and formal prep and I really appreciate you making the time. That is, that is incredibly generous. Thank you.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  No, thank you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure.

• 45:31Chris Duffy?

  That is it for this episode of How to Be a Better Human. Thank you so much to today's guest, Naisha Randhar. I am your host, Chris Duffy, and you can find more from me, including my weekly newsletter and other projects at ChrisDuffyComedy.com. How to Be a Better Human is put together by a team of people who are almost all younger than me, but still older than Naisha. On the TED side, we've got Daniela Balarezzo, Banban Cheng, Chloe Shasha Brooks, Valentina Bohanini, Lainey Lott, Antonio Le and Joseph DeBrine. This episode was fact checked by Julia Dickerson and Mateus Salas, who think that the most poetic phrase of all is "that checks out." On the PRX side, they make beautiful poetry out of garbled audio. I'm talking about Morgan Flannery, Nora Gill, Patrick Grant and Jocelyn Gonzalez. Thanks again to you for listening. Please share this episode with a friend or a family

• 46:16Chris Duffy?

  member who you think would enjoy it. We will be back with more next week. Thanks again.

• 46:29Chris Duffy?

  This episode is sponsored by the Natural Resources Defense Council. Here's a question this show asks a lot. What can one person actually do? Take protecting the environment. When the task feels so big, it's hard to know where to even begin. Turns out, the answer isn't doing it alone. It's teaming up with people who care as much as you do. With the help of 3 million supporters, the Natural Resources Defense Council is in court to defend ancient forests, pristine coasts, and the wildlife that depend on them. None of these places or species can be replaced. They're still here because people fought for them, in and out of court. And that fight needs your support today.

• 47:08Chris Duffy?

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• 47:48Speaker 03

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at G O O dot G L E slash Workspace with Gemini. That's G O O dot G L E slash Workspace with Gemini.

• 48:22Speaker 04

  Hi there. It's Adam Grant from TED's Rethinking Podcast, and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. I get to spend my days studying how people think and what it actually takes to change our minds. It's work I find deeply meaningful. But even in meaningful work, there's still busy work—the admin, the repetitive processes, the invisible load that pulls attention away from what really matters. That's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it. Start to finish, cases closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com.