Shaq Opens Up About His Divorce & His Only Regrets: Penny Hardaway & Kobe Bryant

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast FOLLOW HAPPY DAD: https://www.instagram.com/happydad FIND HAPPY DAD: https://www.happydad.com/find Shaquille O’Neal opens up about his divorce, relationship with Penny Hardaway and what really went on between him and Kobe Bryant in a rare look back into his life as he shares with the guys what keeps him up at night. For the most part, Shaq says how he’s lived life his way but as he’s become older, he looks back with a couple of regrets, the main one being his divorce and the other never reaching out to Kobe after they finished playing together. As Ryan leads the conversation about family and all of them making mistakes at one point or another over the years- the men discuss the point of coming to a realization that sometimes mistakes become decisions that can be difficult to come back from. The conversation takes a somber tone as Shaq shares how he is to blame for his marriage ending and the struggles he faced after not having his family with him everyday. Channing lightens the mood, by talking shit with Shaq about his reputation of missing free throws, his eyes being close together and can’t resist asking about the sexual challenges Shaq faces by being such a large human and curious to how it all goes down. Fred gets into the basketball conversation with Shaq and the guys take a trip down memory lane of how his career played out and what he would have done differently if given the chance. Being transparent about his playing days with the Magic his move to LA and then to Miami, Shaq shares how he believes Penny Hardaway was Kobe Bryant before Kobe was Kobe. “If Penny didn’t get hurt, he would have been one of the top 3 players in the history of game” Shaq says. Losing his sister unexpectedly and then dealing with the death of Kobe, Shaq regrets not picking up the phone and has no excuse but shares the lesson- we are never too busy to make a call. The Pivot Podcast releases new episodes every Tuesday at Noon eastern on YouTube with audio only versions available on Spotify, Apple and all other major platforms. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior like beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:30Ryan Clark?

  What's up? Oh my god.

• 0:31Fred Taylor?

  That's how you doing it?

• 0:32Ryan Clark?

  You see the LSU colors? What up my guy? Hey, this the first time we up two for two on the show. Two Florida's, two LSU.

• 0:39Fred Taylor?

  That is the first time.

• 0:40Shaquille O'Neal?

  How come I didn't know you went to LSU?

• 0:42Ryan Clark?

  I don't know, how you know that? I guess I wouldn't be though.

• 0:45Fred Taylor?

  See what he brought in here?

• 0:46Ryan Clark?

  He got a double.

• 0:47Shaquille O'Neal?

  Who you play with?

• 0:49Ryan Clark?

  Oh shoot, who not? Rohan, so I was there Rohan, Trell. The first year we won the Sugar Bowl with Nick was my senior year.

• 0:56Shaquille O'Neal?

  I'm tripping though. You all ain't gonna make me cry in this moment. I'm just legging on.

• 1:01Fred Taylor?

  He don't slap the glasses on.

• 1:07Speaker 04

  Hold up. Limited, niggas tell me kinda pinning it. I found a hero to witness it. Got my people feeling militant. Way I'm feeling got me up. On the mission got me up. Knowing me I got the key. On the vision I can trust, trust. Limited, niggas tell me kinda pinning it. I found a hero to witness it. Got my people feeling militant. Way I'm feeling got me up. On the mission got me up.

• 1:31Ryan Clark?

  What up fellas? We back on the pivot and we got a big show. I mean like, like a huge show. And I know people feel like all the shows are huge, but this is a huge show. I mean like, big Aristotle big, you know what I'm saying? Like, like big Diesel big. And you know, this is the pivot. So we want you to subscribe on Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts. Make sure you like too. Like, don't just watch the show, think the show is great and then don't like it. You know, I got my boy Freaky Freddie, Freddie Flowers. We got Chan with the new T. You know what I'm saying? We backing up, you know what I'm saying? We back.

• 2:03Channing Crowder?

  What's your big ass laughing at?

• 2:07Shaquille O'Neal?

  Oh, we all in love with him now too. I don't want no problem. I'ma live now, baby. Before we get started though, I wanna, I wanna give props to you brothers. Great show, great content. I like how y'all make people show the sides that we didn't know. The Michael Beasley interview, like I never knew that about the brother. So I just wanna give you guys props for, you know, doing, doing great work. Like, some people just do podcasts, but I see y'all trying to help people out and, you know, help understand people, so. That's why when you called me and said, yo, do you wanna be on the show, I was like, of course. Every time I hear you talking to him, I'm like, I like this kid right here. I really do, so.

• 2:43Fred Taylor?

  You just.

• 2:44Shaquille O'Neal?

  No, you are, yeah, you.

• 2:46Fred Taylor?

  You see, he put his glasses on too. He trying to hide his tears.

• 2:49Shaquille O'Neal?

  Cause he don't wanna cry on the show.

• 2:51Fred Taylor?

  He gonna hide those tears.

• 2:53Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah, okay.

• 2:55Ryan Clark?

  Well, I'ma say this, I'ma say this Shaq, this is the first time, this is the first time we've ever had a guest on. I mean, Freddie wore the, the jersey for the A-Rod jersey, but we got Lakers jerseys, we got Lakers hats, but.

• 3:09Shaquille O'Neal?

  My wife, my wife went and got this for me today.

• 3:11Ryan Clark?

  Today?

• 3:12Shaquille O'Neal?

  Today, this thing fresh. I just took the stickers off.

• 3:14Ryan Clark?

  But, but the real thing is though, was, was really true, the real purple and gold that Shaq wore is that LSU purple and gold. This is the first time, man, I've been two for two on the show now.

• 3:24Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:25Ryan Clark?

  This is the first time I, I ain't been outnumbered by Gators, but, you know, when you go to LSU.

• 3:30Shaquille O'Neal?

  Oh, the Gators?

• 3:31Ryan Clark?

  Both of them.

• 3:32Fred Taylor?

  Hundred percent.

• 3:32Shaquille O'Neal?

  Oh, man.

• 3:33Fred Taylor?

  Come on, dawg.

• 3:34Shaquille O'Neal?

  Oh, man. No, I didn't. You ain't, you ain't know this nigga went to LSU. Yeah, but, but hold on. We don't messin' no Gators. Why not?

• 3:44Fred Taylor?

  I mean, there's a reason why.

• 3:45Shaquille O'Neal?

  What you mean, reason why?

• 3:47Fred Taylor?

  Because, man, I'm three and one against LSU.

• 3:49Ryan Clark?

  Freddie T, you remember when you came to LSU in 97, y'all was number one?

• 3:52Fred Taylor?

  That's one win.

• 3:53Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah, okay.

• 3:53Fred Taylor?

  But that's one win. I wanna know how his bros, right? His, not Omegas, cause you Omega, but how they gonna feel about this, this purple and gold he got on?

• 4:02Shaquille O'Neal?

  They gonna laugh, cause he went to LSU.

• 4:05Ryan Clark?

  You know it.

• 4:06Shaquille O'Neal?

  LSU, bro.

• 4:06Fred Taylor?

  He confused. He's confused.

• 4:09Shaquille O'Neal?

  I used to average 29, 15 on you Gators.

• 4:13Channing Crowder?

  But hell, we had to bring a new champion for your ass. Y'all wish you could go 29 and 15 on somebody. You the biggest human in the world.

• 4:22Shaquille O'Neal?

  I know, I know.

• 4:23Ryan Clark?

  Best college basketball. So with Young Shaq is coming up, and you know, obviously with you being at the school, you know, I followed how you were raised and how you were brought up and what brought you to LSU. But, but what type of, of parents and, and leadership and guidance do you have to have when you have a kid who's obviously immensely talented, also just freaking huge? You know what I mean? What was that type of discipline like that allowed you to get to college, go to LSU and then go on and be the type of athlete you were in the NBA?

• 4:54Shaquille O'Neal?

  His discipline is not allowed to be used today. They call it spanking. But mine was above a spanking and I'm glad he did it. I'm not one of those guys, oh, nah, thank you. Passed away seven, eight years ago and I'm sad because I never got to tell him thank you enough. I was a high level juvenile delinquent. His only mission was to teach me to be a leader, not a follower. It all started, I actually started playing basketball because I watched a movie called Fisher Save Pittsburgh, Dr. J. And I heard of Dr. J, but I was like, this is Dr. J? And my dad knew my love for Dr. J, so he said, okay, you're not really doing well in school. You do better in school, I'll take you to see Dr. J.

• 5:38Shaquille O'Neal?

  So I managed to get all Cs. We go to Madison Square Garden, because I'm from Newark, New Jersey. So, you know, we go to Madison Square Garden, we at the top. You know, it's my first time in the ring, I'm like, damn, this is nice. Dr. J goes baseline, throws it down, the crowd goes crazy. It's like a bunch of basketball guys just like, just like intermed. Like I knew then that this is what I wanted to do. And my father was a military drill sergeant. You couldn't say, hey, hi, you'd have to dress him as sir. And like, if you say sir and he don't respond, he don't feel like talking. So I was like, sir, I know what I want to do. And his words, and I think I was like 12 or 13, if you listen to me, I'll make you one of the best big men ever. And that's how I started playing basketball. So it was a lot of discipline, a lot of love, and the, the, the best thing he taught me

• 6:23Shaquille O'Neal?

  is to never be satisfied. Played football, I was tied in, you know, I used to bring my trophies home on Saturday and on Sunday, they'd be gone. And I couldn't ask where they was at, so I like, then I go play basketball, get another trophy. And I go play baseball, and I do wrestling, and I do track. And so finally, you know, when I get older, I ask them, I say, yo, man, all those trophies I won for you when I was little, why, why'd you take them away? And he said, because I never wanted you to be satisfied. And that's why I have the drive that I have now. Like, even when I get something right now, okay, cool, I'm on to the next thing. And that's because of that discipline and that love. And he also used a lot of fear. Like, doesn't matter how much money I was making and what I was doing, he would always say, hey,

• 7:08Shaquille O'Neal?

  what you gonna do if you blow your knee out? What you gonna do, you know, this don't work out? What, what you gonna do if they don't offer you another contract? Well, like, he always wanted me to have something to fall back on. Every time another athlete messed up, he'd bring it to my attention. The worst ass whipping I got was when Len Bias passed away. My father came in the house like Len Bias was my brother. He was going crazy. He was crying, ah, and he was just grabbing me. Motherf- if I ever catch you doing coke, I'll kill you. And my young dumb ass, I was like, bro, we drink Pepsi. Like, so he was just throwing me around, and like, he sat me down, and he said, look at this. He just threw his life away. That's why I don't, I don't mess around with no drugs, no alcohol,

• 7:52Shaquille O'Neal?

  things like that. So, you know, to answer your question, it, it took a lot of strong discipline, and I, I, I got touched up a few times, but only thing I could do is thank you. Like, I've been able to, to, to live how I want to live and do what I want to do because I listened. Like, you know, his main thing, listen, listen, listen. Once I started listening, doors start opening up. My dream in high school was to make eight million for ten years, because that's how the money was. Eight hundred thousand, like, I wanted a little house, I wanted a Jimmy Blazer, and I wanted the black Benz. That's all I wanted. But then as the game started changing, I was able to get forty million my first contract. But because I listened and because I had that discipline, I'm, I ain't played basketball in fifteen years, but I live a really, really good life.

• 8:35Channing Crowder?

  Just going back, I want to talk about that discipline. Nicky said, you said ass whipping.

• 8:39Shaquille O'Neal?

  I got touched up a lot.

• 8:41Channing Crowder?

  And, and I got touched up too. And that's the thing right now, AP got in trouble for it, people like, there, there's, I say there's spankings, and there's beatings. How did you get that to your kids where there's discipline and then there's over the top?

• 8:55Shaquille O'Neal?

  I think I was really disciplined and spanked and beat because of the environment I was in. Projects in North New Jersey, it's only two, three things you can do. Gangs, you know, drugs, you know, this, you know, just doing off the wall stuff, right? He didn't want that from me. So he would tell me something if I didn't obey. He would, you know, and, and you know, his thing was like, before you get killed out there, I'm gonna kill you in here. Like, you gotta listen to what I'm saying. And like, once I started listening, man, doors started opening, dreams started coming true. Cause you know how we are as youngsters, get out of here with all that. So my kids, they grew up in different environments.

• 9:39Shaquille O'Neal?

  We, we don't have to, we don't have to talk to them like that. Like, like my boys, all I gotta do is look, and they know I'm not playing. So they, instead of being daddy all the time, I'm homeboy with them. But when I gotta, you know, get crazy, it take forty-five seconds. What'd I tell you?

• 9:57Shaquille O'Neal?

  You look like I'm playing? So I don't have to do that with them. And, you know, they understand. And I could, I could explain. Like, my father, drill sergeant, dealing with troops, when he come home, it ain't no explaining. Get that happy dad off, off the counter right now. And I go do something else, then I tell you, like, he's like, so, you know, with, with our kids, we can explain. And I, I'd say, hey, man, don't do that again. If you're going, if you do it again, this is what's gonna happen. And my girls, if I even look at them crazy, like, they're gonna break all the way down. You know, like, if I even look at them, like, they're just going, so, but it's different. Like, I, I've never, I've never had to spank or touch my children up, ever.

• 10:36Channing Crowder?

  That's cause you was there.

• 10:37Shaquille O'Neal?

  My dad was there too.

• 10:38Channing Crowder?

  And you keep saying, we, we all know the story. You keep saying, my dad, that wasn't your dad, your biological dad.

• 10:45Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah, but I don't believe in that because he raised me. And you know, okay, like, I, I'm, I'm doing a documentary, and I tell the story. I didn't even know he wasn't my real dad till I was eleven. Yeah, cause I would, cause my, my brother and sister's last name is Harrison. And mine's Shaquille O'Neal. So I asked my mom when I said, hey, why is, why are they Harrison and I'm Shaquille O'Neal? And she's like, baby.

• 11:09Shaquille O'Neal?

  And then she told me the story. And then she said, you wanna meet your real dad? I was like, cool. So we go right back where I came from, the projects in New Jersey. I'm like, I'm cool. Like, nice to meet you, sir. I'm cool. Got a house, I got brothers and sisters, I'm, I'm cool. And when I turned eighteen, the other guy showed up. At first, I was kinda upset with him, but after my dad passed away, my mother called me and she said, you know, you need to go see your biological father. So we're starting to be, be, become closer. But I don't hold a grudge because my life went the way it was supposed to go. I, I live a really good life from a guy who's not even my biological father. He made me who I am today, so I have to respect that. I have to understand that, and I don't dwell on, on anything else.

• 11:54Ryan Clark?

  When you think about what your dad was to you, but also that feeling of going back to the projects and, and meeting your biological father, how do those things play in into how present or how much of a part of your children's lives you want it to be? Because first off, you say if you just look at your kids and take forty-five seconds, you're also one of the most giant humans in the world. You know what I'm saying? It's not like me looking at my kids where my daughter's five-eight and like she got on heels, we the same height, right? It's not, it's not the same thing. So don't act like, oh, I just got so much respect in the house. I could just, nah, you freaking large. And if they little kids, you eight foot. You know what I mean? And so that's the one thing, but you weren't just a basketball star. You were a superstar. You were in movies and, and you rapping.

• 12:38Ryan Clark?

  So that takes a lot of time. Did the way that your father was with you and also the absence of your biological father play a lot into who Shaquille O'Neal was as a dad?

• 12:52Shaquille O'Neal?

  Being a dad helped me become more likeable. You know how it is in sports. When I lose, I'm tearing my house up. I'm pissed, I'm breaking anything, but soon as you have the kids, soon as you open that door, all that has to go away. It all has to go away. You have to be nice, but especially with girls. Because the kids, they don't care if you win or lose. So I try to do deja vu type things with my sons. With my daughters, I wish I could be there more, but you all know I got divorced and you know my kids were kind of young, but I'm always protect, provide and love. I wish I could have been there more, but when I was married, I was always there. Like, you know, we have to go away for work, but when I come home, I was always home.

• 13:35Shaquille O'Neal?

  I was playing dog man with the kids, playing the kids. Like, I try to be, I try to be their friend. I let the moms do all the discipline stuff. I'm, I'm a guy that's, you know, lovey dovey and, you know, I always want to protect them. I try to also instill in them, we don't need another basketball player in this family. We do not, at all. If you want to play, I have the blueprint, I have the answers to get you to the top. You can follow them, or you can choose not to follow them. You can make your own path, that's fine, but do not feel like you have to be that. Because if you look at that, and you look at this, the richest people in the world don't do that.

• 14:15Shaquille O'Neal?

  So I want you to focus on something else. You can run a hedge fund, you can run a company, you can start to, you know, be a contractor, do anything. But just make sure you have your education, make sure you have something to fall back on. I play with them now because I let them know, I let them understand. I, I tell them this all the time. We ain't rich. Because they're spoiled, but I don't want to.

• 14:37Fred Taylor?

  I saw that.

• 14:38Shaquille O'Neal?

  That's it, like, so.

• 14:39Fred Taylor?

  I did see that.

• 14:40Shaquille O'Neal?

  Listen, I'm gonna spoil them, but I can't over spoil them. So I, like, I have to, I have to let them know, like, look, I'm 50. When I get 70, I'm handing it over to one of y'all. What, the one that, you know, deserves to run it and, you know, keep it going. So, uh, you know, they, they, they know and understand. Um, my oldest son is in college. Uh, my oldest daughter's graduated. She's, she, she, she works for Pepsi. I really have six fabulous kids. I don't have any complaints, and they're doing well.

• 15:07Fred Taylor?

  You said, when you get 70, you gotta hand it over. Which brings me to a question. Do you have a favorite of your children, or have you been accused of favoritism?

• 15:19Shaquille O'Neal?

  I like my girls a little bit better.

• 15:21Fred Taylor?

  Why?

• 15:23Shaquille O'Neal?

  Because as a man, you have to protect, provide and love for your woman.

• 15:27Fred Taylor?

  Do you trust them more than you trust yourself?

• 15:29Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yes, I do. I do. I trust them more because they're more sensitive, they're more caring. And they're thinkers. You know how boys are. Like my boys, you bring a something and right in front of them, they go. You know what I mean? They go. But so, and like I tell my boys. When y'all get eighteen, y'all gotta go. Girls can stay as long as they want.

• 15:53Channing Crowder?

  I say the same exact thing.

• 15:55Fred Taylor?

  Are you serious when you say that?

• 15:57Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yes, I do.

• 15:58Fred Taylor?

  Are you serious?

• 15:59Shaquille O'Neal?

  I'm dead serious. Y'all can stay as long as y'all want. Take your time. Go to college, get your masters, get your doctor. I'll pay for it. Take your time. I'm trying to teach them about all types of men. You know, and you know, what to avoid. Like I tell them all the time, I said. Don't mess with somebody that everybody want. Daddy will, I said, because he got too many options. Too many options. And depends on how he was raised. You know, he may take advantage of those options. And I always try to tell him, say, you should get somebody that you like, somebody that you respect, and somebody that you can control. And that's who you should be looking for. Like if you try to mess with a guy that everybody likes. It'll end up being crazy.

• 16:44Shaquille O'Neal?

  And then I was telling them, don't mess with nobody like your daddy, because your daddy used to be an animal like that.

• 16:49Channing Crowder?

  Along that point, along that point. Because you're damn secure on there, bro. You've controlled your whole life with your ability. Everybody done kissed your ass since when? What day did you figure out everybody was gonna kiss your ass? What age?

• 17:04Shaquille O'Neal?

  I don't want everybody to kiss my ass.

• 17:06Channing Crowder?

  But what age did they start kissing your ass?

• 17:08Shaquille O'Neal?

  It's not about kissing ass, it's about, so this is me. As a youngster, I always used jealousy to drive me, because I wasn't the greatest athlete. I don't know if y'all know this feeling, but you ever go in the gym and you ain't the man? And then you're looking at a guy like, I can do that. Why is he the man and I'm not? So my life has always been about that. So when I walk in the gym and I see you looking at another seven foot guy. I'm coming for your spot. Coming for it. So that, so when I left LSU and I started trying to do endorsement deals. People were like, big guys don't sell. Oh, yeah? Tell you what. Let me design a commercial, let me shoot it, the commercials positive, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Come back, let me do it. I like proving people wrong.

• 17:50Shaquille O'Neal?

  So I like doing good business. I like, you know, meeting outstanding people. And I just try to navigate positively in the world. I don't want people to kiss my ass. I want to do good business. I want to, you know, you take care of me, I take care of you. I, I realized that if you start winning. Yeah. You can. Then you can do it. You could walk in, in, in any restaurant and eat for free and do anything you want. So I had to find that out like when, when I was in LA. Like when I first got to LA, I figured out how Superstar is supposed to live. Like when I first got to LA, they had a club called Roxy. So when I get to LA, I'm eighteen. I'm, I'm Shaq, but Shaq don't hold no weight in LA. So I'm standing in the front, Eddie Murphy coming to all motherf**ing leather shit with the mother. That raw demerits.

• 18:34Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He had that in the motherf**ing gloves. You got your ass out. Yeah, he had the gloves and the Ferrari. He pull up and they paparazzi taking pictures and then Rob Lowe and then Magic on us. I'm like, damn. That's gonna be me one day. So you know, just by seeing that, I just like, I gotta get to that. And then I would talk to people like, man, how, how I get to that? You gotta win. Yeah. Win what? Gotta win, man. You gotta, you know, you gotta win. You gotta make it. I said, well, I'm, they know me. I said, nah, you gotta win. That's when I was like, like really, really trying, trying hard to win. And when I won my first championship, I brought it home to my dad. My. He even smiled. He just, no, he didn't. He just looked at the table and was like.

• 19:14Shaquille O'Neal?

  And he didn't say nothing. We sitting there watching highlights. And then he turned, you know what you gotta do, right? And I'd be like, yes, sir. That's why I went so hard when I got those three in a row. What's the yes, sir? Get another one. But he didn't even like, everybody, oh, congratulations, like that. You know, he's sitting on this cowboy, he had a pin like, Sarge, look what we did.

• 19:34Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra because it's not just a superior light beer. It's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright twenty twenty six Anheuser Busch in Bev. Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 20:05Shaquille O'Neal?

  You should have had fifty, you missed my That's how it was. Yeah, it's alright.

• 20:12Fred Taylor?

  Boy, I love it. But my, my, I was going, I was leading up to saying, with a divorce, you controlled your life forever. You can't control that.

• 20:21Shaquille O'Neal?

  No, I couldn't.

• 20:23Fred Taylor?

  It's two people that involved in divorce.

• 20:24Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah, but no, I, I, I never talked about this, and I'm glad you guys asked him, because I don't mind talking about that, but I was bad. Uh, she was, she was, she was awesome. She really was. It was all me, I was just, look, we don't need to talk about what I was doing, but I wasn't, I wasn't protecting her and protecting those vows. So, you know, sometimes when you live a double life, you get caught up in. So, I'm, I'm not gonna say it was her, it was all me, because she was, like, she did exactly what she's supposed to do, gave me beautiful kids, take care of the house, take care of corporate stuff, it, it, it was just all me. Sometimes when you make a lot of mistakes like that, you know, you can't really come back from that. But she's happy now, she's about to marry a, a, a, a fine young gentleman, and I'm happy for her,

• 21:05Shaquille O'Neal?

  and we have a great relationship. But as I get older and, and dwell on situations, I can honestly say, it was all me. Because I was, hey, I was, uh, big time.

• 21:16Fred Taylor?

  On South Beach, in the, in the Lambo, in the Rari?

• 21:19Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah.

• 21:20Fred Taylor?

  I seen you a couple times. How your big ass fit in the Lamborghini?

• 21:23Shaquille O'Neal?

  So, you know, it was crazy, I bought a real one, and then I bought one that was salvaged, and I just super glued the motherfuckers.

• 21:31Fred Taylor?

  I seen you a couple nights on the, you know, he's seven one, how you fit in here?

• 21:36Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, no, but I think, you know, you mentioned the mistakes, and, you know, often have the conversation that, you know, because I've made mistakes, uh, as well, and that was how I characterized it, right? And I was like, you know what, these are mistakes I've made, when truly, as we become adults, and now you get older, those are decisions. Right? Though, tho- those are decisions and, and choices we choose to make because...

• 22:01Shaquille O'Neal?

  I'm not crying either, I'm just wiping mine.

• 22:02Ryan Clark?

  It's you good, you good, because...

• 22:04Fred Taylor?

  You good.

• 22:06Ryan Clark?

  Because, uh, because...

• 22:10Ryan Clark?

  You know what it is, dawg? Because you know, it's like, because at that moment, that's what fulfills you. And I think also, as men, sometimes we don't think bigger than that. Right? We think about that moment. We don't think about how it affects the people that aren't there at the time, or how it will be seen if, as it said, what's done in the dark comes to light. Well, you've been so successful in your life, and now you said at this point, being able to look back on that. Are there things from that time you would change? And do you believe if you changed them, you'd still like to be married? Or you'd still like to be in that position where you could be with your kids? And like Channing said, could control those type of things?

• 22:54Shaquille O'Neal?

  The best feeling for me was coming home and hearing five, six different voices. Don't matter if I missed 15 free throws and we lost. They don't care about that. Dog man's home. Like, we used to play something called Dog Man. As soon as I come in, I turn into a wild dog and I chase them. That's not like the cat, Channing.

• 23:12Channing Crowder?

  No, I'm gonna get into it, Shaq. I'm gonna get into the nasty stuff.

• 23:16Shaquille O'Neal?

  No, I just, you know, no, I just used to like get them and act like I'm biting them.

• 23:20Fred Taylor?

  Dog man.

• 23:21Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah, and they used to love that. And, look, I was just being greedy. I had the perfect situation. Wife was finer than a mug. Kept giving me babies, still finer than a mug. I had it all, just sometimes you... And I don't make excuses. I know I messed up. And then, you know, when I didn't have that... I don't like to use the D-word, because I don't really know what it is, but I was lost.

• 23:50Shaquille O'Neal?

  Seventy-six thousand square foot house, by yourself. Lost. No kids. Go to the gym. Nobody's playing in the gym. You go to their room, nobody's there. You you you start to feel it. And then as you're getting older and then you hear Shaq ain't Shaq no more. And then you realize Shaq ain't Shaq no more. You go from averaging thirty to nineteen and you know and then you know but. I said to myself, okay. You're not married, but you still have to protect and provide for this family. Get your ass up. Man up. Let's go. What you gonna do next? At the end of my career, I had a two-year deal. I wanted to do the farewell Shaq tour and all that, but I got injured. And I didn't know what I was gonna do, so I was just gonna take a year of it.

• 24:34Shaquille O'Neal?

  Okay, what am I, what am I gonna do, what am I gonna do? And luckily, I got the job with TNT and been working and things have been going on. But all the stuff I'm doing now, that's the stuff I wanted to do. I wanted to invest. I wanted to buy companies. I wanted to be on boards. I wanted to do certain things because you know, may not be a husband, but I'm always be a father. And the father's job is to protect, provide, and love. I have two, I don't like to use term baby mamas. I have two wonderful women that have given me beautiful, gorgeous children. I have to protect and I have to provide and I have to love for them forever. That's why I work so hard. I don't work for me. I got it all. I gotta work for them. I gotta work for my six babies.

• 25:12Channing Crowder?

  Sorry, did you say seventy-six thousand square foot house?

• 25:16Shaquille O'Neal?

  Seventy-six thousand, yeah.

• 25:17Channing Crowder?

  Cause we, I thought you said hundred and I was like, I damn near got Shaq. You said thousand. You said seventy-six thousand. Where is that house?

• 25:26Shaquille O'Neal?

  In Orlando and I just sold it. And I'm actually sick that I sold it, but.

• 25:30Channing Crowder?

  Who bought it? Who can afford it?

• 25:32Ryan Clark?

  A dentist.

• 25:34Channing Crowder?

  A dentist? That's a lot of chain X-T.

• 25:36Ryan Clark?

  That's a lot of.

• 25:39Channing Crowder?

  Man, listen Shaq, I know you big now. I'd die on that big ass chair with all this giggling.

• 25:47Shaquille O'Neal?

  Like we used to say in locker room, be mad at who you mad at. Don't be mad at me, dog.

• 25:55Ryan Clark?

  Dog, you mentioned Orlando, like, you know, to mention Orlando, I'm a, like, I love documentaries. So when 30 for 30s came out, I started watching them all. And they actually sent me a box set. And I was like, y'all know I ain't got no dang DVD player to watch these. But, you know, I remember watching the one with you and Penny, right? And I'm a huge Jordan fan. I was a huge Bulls fan. And when y'all spoiled his comeback, when Nick Anderson poked the ball from behind him, I almost forgot you went to LSU. It made me that sick. And, you know, I heard you had a lot to do with Penny becoming part of the Orlando Magic. What type of memories do you have of that time of them two young guns, man? A guard and a big man that were just taking over the league at such a young age?

• 26:41Shaquille O'Neal?

  You know, when you get older, you try to think about the mistakes that you made that could have been avoided. Divorce is definitely one of them. Penny and I were two young superstars. We let other people get into our heads. So when I first got to Orlando Magic, we didn't have a, you know, these guys my guy, Nick's guy, but we didn't have another. So I shoot the movie Blue Chips. And I'm the type, I don't really care about who's coming out and all that. So I didn't even know who Penny was. So, but in my contract, we gotta play ball three or four hours, let me work out and all that before we start shooting. So we playing this little skinny motherfucker, he dime me up. Like, if I put my hand like that, the ball's gonna be right there. So finally, I say, yo, man, who the [__] is that? I say, yo, is he an actor?

• 27:26Shaquille O'Neal?

  He said, no, man, that's Penny Hardaway. I said, who? He's like, he went to Memphis State. He, you know, projected to, you know, go high in the draft. So these guy would always tell me, Jack, you too nice. You gonna have to start telling these people what you want and how you want it. So I tested that out. So I called and said, hey, man, y'all heard of Penny Hardaway? Yeah, we, you know, you know, we might not be able to get him. I said, well, y'all need to get him. I don't know if we can do that. I said, well, if y'all don't get him, when my deal is up, in two years, I'm gonna be looking to do something else. That's what I told him, hung up, bye. They called me back, all right, we're really trying. So shoot the movie, get home, the draft. They draft C Webb. I tear my kitchen up.

• 28:11Shaquille O'Neal?

  Glad he's my like, so to now, like, I'm trying to use my power. Y'all ain't respecting me, so now I'm gonna have to show y'all how I get down. I'm out. When my deal is up, I'm out, ain't gonna be nothing to talk about. So then, like, ten minutes later, they, they make the trade, and then we got him. Cause I was thinking the next Magic and Kareem. That's all I was thinking. And you like playing with a guy that likes to look out for you. He was good enough to go for himself, but he was always look, look out for me. Problem started happening is when you let people saying, whose podcast is this? This is Fred's shit, Ryan's shit, or your shit? Rather than being the team, they start, so, you know, me, I know it's my shit, or you don't have to say it, but I don't like nobody else saying it's his shit, right?

• 28:55Shaquille O'Neal?

  So, you know, him and his boys started doing that, we started doing that. So then, when it come time to get some new money, I already knew, I said, I'm, I'm, I'm starting off at one fifty. I know I wasn't gonna get one fifty, I'm starting off at one fifty. Talking about paying Big Dog a hundred million.

• 29:09Fred Taylor?

  Glenn, Glenn Robinson?

• 29:10Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah, I need one fifty. So they said no, the town said no. So then, I'm here in Olympics. I'm not even thinking about signing, like, they wanted me to sign eighty for four, and I thought about it, I was like, let me go to the Olympics and I come back. So I'm here, me and my uncle, we at Magic City, and my agent, Leonard Almona, called me and said, hey, man, you gotta meet me at this hotel, I got good news for you. So when we get there, I get to the Swedish, Jerry West. I'm like, oh, hey, Mr. West, he's like, he said, hey, man, I got some good news and I'm, I got some bad news. I said, what's the bad news? He said, I can't get you that one fifty. And I said, what's the good news? He said, we can get you one twenty. And when he opened up that motherfucking contract, all them fucking zeros, dog, I was like, like, I, like, I, I didn't even have time to consult with my mom, my dad, nobody, like,

• 29:55Shaquille O'Neal?

  I just seen all them zeros, and he's like, man, you know, we gotta make a move now.

• 32:02Fred Taylor?

  Do you think you would have got multiple, more than you got in L.A.?

• 32:05Shaquille O'Neal?

  That's, that's the hard thing. But, but Penny was that good.

• 32:09Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 32:09Channing Crowder?

  Penny wasn't Kobe.

• 32:11Fred Taylor?

  No, no, no.

• 32:12Channing Crowder?

  I know, no, no, no. What'd he say?

• 32:14Fred Taylor?

  Penny was Kobe before Kobe.

• 32:16Channing Crowder?

  I was gonna say, but Penny wasn't as good as Kobe, like, let's be honest. Penny was not gonna be a top three player.

• 32:20Fred Taylor?

  Penny got injured. Penny had knee.

• 32:22Shaquille O'Neal?

  Oh, oh, you sure about that?

• 32:23Channing Crowder?

  You say Penny could have been a top three player of all time, 'cause that's what Kobe is.

• 32:26Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yes. If he didn't get injured, yes. Bro, hold on. Penny came in like that.

• 32:31Channing Crowder?

  Penny was a dog.

• 32:32Shaquille O'Neal?

  Hold on. Penny came in like that. Took Kobe two, maybe two and a half years to get to that level. Penny came in, he was already like that.

• 32:39Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 32:39Shaquille O'Neal?

  First year he came in, we went to the finals. Penny was cold. And that's why I always tell people, he was Kobe before Kobe. People give me flack like that, you know, say he couldn't have turned out, but if he wouldn't have got injured, he definitely, he'd definitely be up there. Definitely. Hey, Penny was a cold cat. You know it. I'm a bad boy.

• 32:59Channing Crowder?

  Listen, Shaq, listen Shaq, don't try me with them big ass, little ass shoes on now, with them big ass cows in your motherfucking feet. You ain't gonna get up fast. If I jump on your ass, I'm gonna give me seven, eight shots in before your ass get up.

• 33:10Shaquille O'Neal?

  I'm done, dawg.

• 33:12Ryan Clark?

  Hey, all our time up. You, you know, you said Pops was mad, Asarge was mad that you was going to L.A. till he heard about that at 1:20. The other thing is, man, when you get all them zeros, especially in L.A., with the way that they've always won, with, with Showtime, with Magic, with Kareem, and all of the other big men that they had, like, that's pressure.

• 33:33Shaquille O'Neal?

  I like pressure. Rookie year. Land O' Magic versus the Knicks. He didn't go to this game. He usually always go to this game. I go to this game, I stink up the fucking gym. We got a couple of days off, we going to another city. I get the phone call on the, on the dope man phone. Hello? What you doing? I don't know. Well, what's wrong? You couldn't handle the pressure? You never supposed to say, "I can't." He don't like that. I couldn't. Get, get your ass on the plane right now. Like, yo, man, it's been a, I don't give a fuck. I'm on the plane, come home. So I leave, two, get there at three, wake up the next morning. I want your ass over my house at 07:00. Like, I landed at five, I gotta be at his house at seven. Don't be late. So when I get to the house, we ride, and he not saying nothing in the car.

• 34:18Shaquille O'Neal?

  And I see a homeless family. And what he does, every time he goes that route, he'll give them some money for eat. So we just sitting there looking, and he don't say nothing. And then he said, "You spoiled motherfucker. This is pressure. Pressure is when you don't know where your next meal coming from. I don't ever wanna hear you say you can't handle the pressure again." "Come basketball. Get out." I was like, "What you mean, get out? Get the..." "Come and take care of this family." So this is eight in the morning, so I go talk to the dude, nice guy, it was a guy, wife and two kids. Guy said he was, you know, just lost his house, he was just looking for something to do. So I asked him, I said, "Hey, what do you like to do?" He said, "Man, I like to cut grass." Called one of my boys, "Hey, man, boom, boom, boom, I wanna cut grass."

• 35:03Shaquille O'Neal?

  Called one of my other guys who has some apartments, I said, "Hey, man, I need a three bedroom apartment, how much?" "Three thousand a month, I'm gonna send you a check for thirty-six." Guy who I just met, put his family in there. "Sir, uh, call my office tomorrow, go to the furniture store, boom, boom, boom." So I had to take care of that family and then, but after I did all that, I was like, "That's right." "Come on, fucker. He out there with his family, he don't know where his next meal gonna coming from. If I don't come around, he don't get that." And after that, I never, I never felt the pressure again. So when I got to LA and he was like, "Yeah, you could be like..." And I like that shit. "You can be like Kareem and Magic and all, you can be like..." I'm like, "Okay." "I already know I can ball." "If you put the right motherfuckers around me, I'm gonna get it done." But I'm like, "Okay, cool."

• 35:48Shaquille O'Neal?

  And you know, the way they did it was special too, is he brought me to the Forum and then all the lights are on. "Doo, and he put the lights up." "Jerry West, you know, Kareem, what he done, you could be like that." And "Doo, yeah, all the jerseys." And Jerry West said, "Look, I know you like to rap and do movies and all that, but when it's all said and done, if it's done the right way, your name could be up there." So while some people look at it as pressure, I look at it as a challenge. And not only do I look at it as a challenge, from where I come from, I gotta get it done. And now I got kids and boys too, and for bragging rights, I gotta get it done. Gotta get it done.

• 36:21Fred Taylor?

  For me, the craziest thing is, man, you transcend the game. But I think more importantly, you know, what your father instilled in you and how you've taken that, how humble you are. You know, you have everything, right? You're a superstar. And for you to be sitting here with us, shopping, talking about Chan, you know, we, we having a good time.

• 36:43Channing Crowder?

  Don't look over here.

• 36:46Channing Crowder?

  Ain't no easy win.

• 36:49Channing Crowder?

  I don't know what you looking at, cause I ain't no easy win.

• 36:52Shaquille O'Neal?

  Hell no, you can't have my cornbread. You want my cornbread, man? Get that motherfucker taste out your butt.

• 36:57Channing Crowder?

  That's why we always sit you next to when we get there. That's gonna happen twice as soon, right?

• 37:02Fred Taylor?

  But really, the point I'm making, man, I hear stories about, you know, you leaving Reebok to go and do your own line. Your shoes were in Walmart, right? What I see is everything your father put in you, when he said, "Go out here and take care of his family." Man, you the most gentle fucking giant on the planet. Is that everything you do now is because of?

• 37:27Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yes, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I was arrogant one time. You know, you go from not being nothing to being something. So, leave Newark, go to Germany, end up in San Antonio, Texas. Thirty-six and out, I'm the man. So I started acting like that. So I went to a small school. Graduating class was thirty-nine people. Eight through twelve was two-hundred-sixty-nine people. So I'm starting to just be arrogant and alienate people. So one day I come to school, the whole school shifts.

• 38:30Shaquille O'Neal?

  What up, Ryan? What up, Fred? What up, Uglab boy? Don't nobody say nothing to me, right? I'm like, cool, you know, I like to laugh, I'm a comedian.

• 38:41Shaquille O'Neal?

  So, I go in the lunchroom. The whole school get up and go. I go to practice. My... Don't say nothing to... So my boy, who actually worked for me now, said, "Yo, man, what the..." He said, "My man, you ain't get here by yourself. You arrogant, you sh... You know people, you bullying people. That's not the way to go. And when you come from nothing and you get something, and then you automatically lose." And I'm like, you know what? If I act like this when I get big time, I could lose everything. So I never did that again. And then, you know, you have to...

• 39:15Shaquille O'Neal?

  You know Muhammad Ali said, you could tell a lot about a man, how he treats the janitor. If a man treats a janitor like shit, he gonna treat everybody like shit. So after that, I was like, you know what, I need to, I need to just, just stay cool. Cause all this could be taken away, especially if you make crazy decisions, so. You know, my thing is, take care of my family. Lead by example for people like us, you know, people who want to follow in our footsteps. Because that's what Dr. J did for me. And then when I met Dr. J, he was just so smooth. I'm like, if he nice, I gotta be nice. I met Magic, he got me in the club. I'm like, if Magic nice, if I met Eddie, Eddie, hey man, I heard a lot about you.

• 40:00Shaquille O'Neal?

  Like all these motherfuckers is nice to me, I got to be nice. I don't need to be, and then like, we all men. Just cause I got something you ain't got it, I'm not gonna step on you. Can't do it.

• 40:11Channing Crowder?

  And to talk about that expansion, man, cause that was one thing that a lot of athletes try to do that we're actually doing right now. You know what I'm saying? You go from being an athlete to try to expand your brand and, you know, first thing, your eyes are so closed that I'm amazed you can wear glasses, regular glasses. Like I thought you wear a monocle when you came. I thought you had like a sock cloths monocle on. But since you have real glasses on. I seen it, you go wear them and I was proud.

• 40:39Channing Crowder?

  I was proud to see that.

• 40:40Shaquille O'Neal?

  Another thing with people though, I think if people can act like we act, the world would be a better place. That shit funny.

• 40:48Shaquille O'Neal?

  I'm the shag, I can take it personal, but that was funny. No, that, that, that was.

• 40:57Channing Crowder?

  This nigga seven three with five, two eyes, like why your eyes so close? This nigga sit tight.

• 41:07Channing Crowder?

  You talking about expansion Shaq, like you're one of the best basketball players ever. We all saw you, you know what I'm saying? And then you getting to rap. You, let's say you a ten of ten of basketball players, bro. Hall of Famer.

• 41:20Shaquille O'Neal?

  Oh, I'm the number one athlete rapper.

• 41:22Channing Crowder?

  But then the rapper, the rapping and the acting.

• 41:25Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yes.

• 41:25Channing Crowder?

  So if you ten of ten in basketball, I need your rank of yourself in acting.

• 41:30Shaquille O'Neal?

  I'm a terrible actor. I'm a terrible actor.

• 41:32Channing Crowder?

  Oh, I saw Kazam. Shazam, Shazam. Shazam, I ain't even know Kazam, Shazam, I ain't know the first one.

• 41:38Shaquille O'Neal?

  I'm a terrible actor, cause I got seventeen movies and, and fifteen I played myself, so it don't count.

• 41:46Shaquille O'Neal?

  Rapping, I'm the number one athlete rapper. Uh, so that, it's, it, listen, it's all about taking advantage of opportunities. We don't get these opportunities. Like, I didn't wanna be a rapper. I went on an Arsenio Hall show and I said, hey man, I wanna do something different. Like, what you wanna do? I don't wanna just come in no fancy suit, talk about what I'm gonna do, everybody do that, I wanna do something different. He said, what? And out of the blue, I just said, I wanna rap with my favorite rap group. He said, cool, so I called Fushenekins, we did it, we did a song. And then after that, I thought I had a great performance. My agent called me and said, man, you ain't gonna believe this. I said, what? My, they'll offer you ten million dollars for a three album deal. I was like, what? They're like, yeah, they don't, they don't jive. So I met with the people from Jive, I said, listen, let's, let's be realistic, I'm not a rapper.

• 42:29Shaquille O'Neal?

  Only way I do this is if you let me rap with my favorite rappers. And they said, deal. So, you know, first album, Redman, uh, Def Jeff, Biggie, was able to go platinum. And then the second one went gold, third one went wood. And then.

• 42:45Channing Crowder?

  People caught on.

• 42:46Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah, yeah, people caught on, but for me, being in the studio with Biggie, that's my platinum. Cause, be honest with you, when I went platinum, that, that little chick ain't do nothing for me.

• 42:57Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 42:57Shaquille O'Neal?

  So, you know, Jay-Z, hey, this Shaq, you wanna do a verse with me? Yeah, man, how much you gonna try me, Jay? Free, Shaq, I love you, like, just, so, I, I probably have the number one celebrity discography for a, a non rapper. I got Fat Joe, I got Big Pun, I got Snoop, I got DJ Quick, I got Redman, I got Biggie, I got Nas, I got Nori, like, I got all these guys that did it for free. And when I got in the studio, they test me out, which is fine. Cause I've been playing basketball and rapping and doing fake movies in the house since I was a little kid. And you know, movie thing, so I'm sitting there in the fourth season. The guy says, man, I've been looking for you. And I said, why are you looking for me? I'm so and so, boom, boom, boom, shooting a movie called Blue Chips. And we wanna put you in it. Like, okay, just talk to my agent.

• 43:42Shaquille O'Neal?

  My agent called me, said, this guy's real. He's shooting a movie, Blue Chips, and boom, boom, Nick Nolte's. I'm like, Nick Nolte from Forty Eight Hours? Like, yeah, he's in Starlight. I'll do it. And I had to play myself, so it ain't like I said, I'm gonna be a rapper and be a movie. These are just opportunities that you can't ever turn down. And when you love something and you respect it, you can always do well at it. So doing well for me is not the same definition as a rapper. Even if I go ten times platinum, that money ain't doing nothing for me.

• 44:08Fred Taylor?

  What was your favorite track?

• 44:09Shaquille O'Neal?

  Favorite track's probably the one I did with Biggie. Because I did it, I redid it. He ain't gonna like this. I redid it and I redid it. And then finally Biggie said, hey, man, send me the ticket, I'm coming down. So I'm nervous, I'm like, man, I hope he like it. Cause I done already redid it my ten times. If he don't like it, I'm probably gonna have to cancel the project. So he go in the studio, he start talking about, that shit tight, big fella. So I was like, he like it? I ain't gotta change it. So I pull out some paper. Cause you know, I had the studio in the house. I pull out some paper, I said, hey, man, you want, I'm gonna be in the house. Fred's the engineer. Hit this button, uh, just let me know when you're done. He said, no, man, I'm ready right now. And I ain't never seen nobody work that fast. Like, he never heard the beat before. That was the first time I heard the beat.

• 44:55Shaquille O'Neal?

  And he killed it. But it was vulgar, so I had to hit the button, I was like.

• 45:01Shaquille O'Neal?

  He's like, Chuck, you writing for the kids, for the kids. And then he hit that other verse and that, look, we just talked about life. We went on the C do, we had a good time, you know, talked to his mom. It was just a great day. And then the last time I saw him was when he was getting the tattoos the night before, you know, he got killed.

• 45:17Fred Taylor?

  You saw him the day before he got killed?

• 45:19Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah.

• 45:21Fred Taylor?

  My favorite track was "You Can't Stop the Rain."

• 45:23Shaquille O'Neal?

  That's it.

• 45:23Fred Taylor?

  That was it? That's it?

• 45:25Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah, that's it.

• 45:26Fred Taylor?

  I don't remember Biggie.

• 45:26Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah, that was Biggie.

• 45:29Ryan Clark?

  Obviously, you know, you mentioned all these people doing things for you for free. Jay-Z doesn't do things for free. Biggie, you know, some of the biggest rappers, especially during that era, they were doing those things because, you mentioned winning, but they were doing those things because of the basketball player you were, because of the star you were. It wasn't about actually rapping. How does it make you feel, though? Because, you know, we all know when people do things, obviously you got to do it, when people do things that you don't do for a living, you become fans of them. You know what I mean? So to have an opportunity to be in there with Biggie, and then also now you move to seeing him the night before he passed, when you think of some of those memories,

• 46:13Ryan Clark?

  is it almost surreal to you that that kid from the projects in Jersey turned into that man?

• 46:20Shaquille O'Neal?

  It is. I think about it all the time. But I think I get respect from them because they know I love and respect their craft. I don't want to be a rapper. Just, I rap because I really got skills, right? And if I wasn't a basketball player, I would try to probably explore that lane. But, you know, being that I'm one of the biggest stars and I'm stepping into that lane, they see that I love it and respect it, and not being all gimmicky about it, they gave me a shot. And, you know, when they gave me a shot, I represented well, and we still have, you know, good relationships to this day. But, well, the only thing I could do is look up and say, "Thank you, Sarge." Because he told me all this would happen. He said, "My man, once you start listening to me,

• 47:03Shaquille O'Neal?

  you're gonna be able to do anything the white boys do, anything you want." So I was speaking at a conference the other day, and the little kid said, "How does it feel to have a lot of money?" And I told him, I said, "My definition of rich is different. My definition of being rich is seeing a beautiful black woman, Dr. Lucille O'Neal. Wake up, cook a hell of a breakfast, wear the same pants she wore on Monday. Today's Wednesday, just switched up the shirt."

• 47:34Shaquille O'Neal?

  I'm watching, like, you, you, you already wore it off. Make sure we was fresh. Took us to school, picked us up, hell of a dinner, and never complained. And like, we used to just like ride around, I could see the stuff in her eyes, like, she used to like, they're little bullshit. I said, oh, that's a nice house. And I could see the, and, and like, she wished she had something like that. So my definition of being rich is be there and buy my mom anything she want. Like, I don't, I don't know how much I'm worth, I do not care. When I take my mom into the mall and be looking at them little expensive purses that these little girls be buying, you want one? No, baby, that's two thousand dollars, I don't care about that. For real, baby? I, I can have a little, like, you know, she's older, like, for real, babe, I can have a little? That's my definition of being rich.

• 48:16Shaquille O'Neal?

  My definition of being rich is when my sister passed away before Kobe died, I said, leave this house in Orlando, you come to, you to Atlanta, so, so I could see you more. Cause the year my sister died, I only saw my family four times a year, so you know I need you next to me. Babe, I don't wanna leave the house, no, go pick another house. That's my definition of being rich, nothing else. Being able to, the woman that sacrificed everything for me and never had nothing. I asked, I said, how much you make when, when I was coming up? She said, she only make thirty-five thousand a year. A year, tax that, how much is that? My dad was only making forty, so you get in a house to buy kids, seventy thousand, you got a big ass greedy kid. She wasn't making nothing, so being able to get her whatever she want, the best fiddle in the world.

• 48:58Shaquille O'Neal?

  Like, I'd never seen a person cry when I, when I dropped that mansion off the first time. Like, I actually tricked her, I said, hey, let, I said, mom, I need you come look at these houses with me. So we got a house in Orlando, it was nine hundred thousand, but it was nine thousand square feet, some, none of us ever seen before. Media room, pool house and all that, I said, ma, you like this house for me? She said, I was like it. It's yours. Like, as soon as I say yours, uh, I ain't never seen no tears like that, she done never fell. I'm like, ma, yeah, this, I said, it's yours, it's for you, daddy, brothers and sisters.

• 49:32Shaquille O'Neal?

  Go outside, outside. Brand new light, just that, that, that right there was, made it all worth it. I don't care about my cars, I don't care about my jewelry, I don't care about none of that. But just be able to take that up and now do the same thing, you know, for my kids, same thing. So that's my definition of being rich and that's why I work so hard, you know, I work for them.

• 49:51Fred Taylor?

  You spoke about, uh, validation before we started growing and you mentioned that, uh, you don't care how the world sees you.

• 49:58Shaquille O'Neal?

  I do not.

• 49:59Fred Taylor?

  You know, especially now in this day and age, the social media, you know, the scrutiny that can follow based on a comment. But you don't worry about the outsider, you don't worry about what your mother.

• 50:11Shaquille O'Neal?

  I used to, so I had a nuclear physicist, used to talk to me about problems.

• 50:16Fred Taylor?

  Of what?

• 50:17Shaquille O'Neal?

  Nuclear physicist.

• 50:19Channing Crowder?

  The only people Shaq can talk to, we can't talk to no nuclear physicist.

• 50:22Shaquille O'Neal?

  His name is Bert, yeah, the nuclear physicist. So when I was losing in L.A., I would get all the flak, you know, and drive me crazy. So the first thing he did, cause you know, they, they want me to talk to somebody, I'm, I'm starting to go crazy, I'm starting to beat him up, cause I'm up in the locker room, I'm going crazy, right? So they said, we, we want to introduce you to this guy, Bert, nuclear physicist. So the first thing he did, he make me watch this movie, The Fan, Wesley Snipes and Robert De Niro.

• 50:48Channing Crowder?

  Yep.

• 50:49Shaquille O'Neal?

  And the basis of the movie is Wesley, who's a star, he said he didn't care. So when I start talking to Bert, he said, you care too much. So what do you mean? He said, how much you making this year? I'm making twenty-five. He said, whether you do good or not, right? Yeah. So why you care what people write? And once I stopped caring, phew, took off. And then he say, you should develop something called one-hand stress. I only care about what my mama say, what my kids think, if it's gonna mess up the money in the business, what my boys think, that's it, they don't even get to five. Then I made up a quote for myself, if a nobody can influence a somebody, then the nobody wins. But the question of the day is, who are you? Nobody. So all these people with their opinions.

• 51:34Shaquille O'Neal?

  If we talking pecking order status, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but you're under me. Now, if I say something and y'all say something, now I gotta look at it. We all on the same, you know, so we athletes, former athlete, boom, boom. So now, like, if y'all say something, I did something wrong, now I have to look at it, right? Because y'all my boys. I, you know, respect what y'all say. Somebody above, you know, like if Mr. Obama say Shaq shouldn't have did that, I know I messed up. My mama can't know I messed up. But I am not concerned by what people say about me, because it ain't real life. Real life is, I can do whatever I want, say whatever I want, be whoever I want, my mama straight. Like tomorrow, after work, I'm going to Miami, on my plane, so.

• 52:16Fred Taylor?

  Take us, take us back to Jersey, and not, not your childhood. I want to get into some of your, some of your business ventures. You have a big real estate project. What influenced that?

• 52:27Shaquille O'Neal?

  I got tired of seeing the projects. I got tired of seeing people live like that. So my Uncle Mike, who's my agent, has a lot of influence with the mayor. We want to tear the projects down, we gonna pay for it. And then, you know, when you're a minority owned company, there's a lot of grants for that. I didn't know that. So Goldman Sachs would give us the money, we tear the projects down, we start making condos. And then I just built something called Shaq Towers, because I like to, because when I was growing up, even though it was a project, it was the most beautiful place ever. But then when you leave and come back, you're like, damn, man, clean up your yard, like, look at this building, look at this and that. So I wanted to help beautify the place. It's not a money thing for me. It's like, I want to be helpful in making this place what it is.

• 53:12Shaquille O'Neal?

  And it's a valuable place. New York is jam packed, so most of the properties I own are right next to the subway. So if you can get you, you don't want to pay a hundred thousand a month of rent in New York, come to Newark, on the train, ten, fifteen, twenty minutes away. So if you look at it business wise, it's really a gold mine. But I wanted to help beautify. The city back up. And a lot of business things that I get into, if I don't believe in your business, I won't do it. I always tell people the story that when I won my first championship, Wheaties contacted my office. And I told them, no. My agent was like, hey, man, that's Wheaties. I'm like, fuck that. I'm from the hood. I don't know what Wheaties taste like. Call Frost Afflex.

• 53:54Shaquille O'Neal?

  No, I told him, I said, I'm not, I said, yo, call Frost Afflex. So we called them. They denied a second, third championship to do that. When I won in Miami, they did a deal with the NBA and they put me and Wade on the box. I couldn't stop that. But finally, after all these years, I finally did my first deal with Frost Afflex. So I'm on the box like, you know, like on the cover, like, you know, three million boxes. But I can't take your money just to be taking it because I can't lie to the people. I can't do that. You can't pay me to lie to the people. Like if you would say, hey, I want you to endorse this beer and I drink it, I don't like it. You can't pay me no money. I'll give you half of the company. I can't do that to the people because it's not about getting rich. But the process gets you rich, but it's never about getting rich.

• 54:36Shaquille O'Neal?

  Jeff Bezos said, if you invest in things that's going to change people's lives, it's a win-win situation. So if you're coming out with a beer and it's going, you know, it's going to help people or whatever, whatever, then I'd do that. But I just can't take your money just to be taking it.

• 54:51Channing Crowder?

  Do you know, do you know all your investments? Because like-

• 54:53Shaquille O'Neal?

  No, I do not.

• 54:54Channing Crowder?

  You don't know, like, you walk into a, to a, to a meeting and people tell you, hey, you have a real estate company. You have this and that. I know all my investments. You, you have no idea what, what you're invested in.

• 55:06Shaquille O'Neal?

  No. I, uh, I got, I got my first million dollars in 18 years old. I gotta get that black on black Benz. Fuck that.

• 55:18Channing Crowder?

  So you got the black on black?

• 55:19Shaquille O'Neal?

  Oh, I got the black on black.

• 55:20Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 55:21Shaquille O'Neal?

  So I get home, my dad said, where my shit at? Jump in, dog. Alpine. We'll get him one. So that's, that's, that's 300,000, right?

• 55:29Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 55:30Shaquille O'Neal?

  Come home, mom. You my baby, you can get whatever you want. I'm not gonna get you the six hundred, but I get you the five hundred. So a hundred thousand, so. And then, so after I take care of them, you know, I gotta get the ice and the jury.

• 55:44Channing Crowder?

  Right, the whole thing.

• 55:44Shaquille O'Neal?

  I'm living at the, yeah, I'm living at the house. The draft is three, three months away. I'm gonna rent me apartment, condo. So I get a meeting, I get a call from the bank guy the next day and he's, he's looking at me and he's like, Shaq, you know, we watched you grow up and we don't want you to be like all the other athletes. Take a look at this. I don't know nothing about business. But you know how, you know how we as black athletes, we always hear the story of my [BLEEP] stealing from you. So I get the piece of paper and I see FICA, two hundred fifty thousand. I'm like, hey, man, who the [BLEEP] is FICA? I don't, I don't, I don't know nothing about business. So he started laughing and he pulled out his thing. He pulled the dumbest guy to start his own business. Says Shaq, you about to come into a lot of money. Read this. So I'm reading it, I don't know what I'm looking at.

• 56:28Shaquille O'Neal?

  But my favorite chapter was joint venture ships.

• 56:32Shaquille O'Neal?

  Partnerships. And I'm like, and it's simple. If I'm gonna do a worldwide football camp, do it with y'all. I'm gonna put the money up, y'all gonna run them [BLEEP]. Boom, I ain't gonna tell you what to do, I ain't gonna tell you how to do it. So most of my businesses is joint venture ships. So where I know the business, I'm, I'm educated enough to look at the books to see what's going on, but I'm not out there doing everything by myself. I own seven restaurants in Vegas. I got three guys that's in the restaurant business. I do business with them. So a lot of times my business is on paper because that's the business, but I'm still owners. So that's how I do a lot of my business so I'm not all over the place. And that was my favorite chapter, joint venture ship. I do a lot of, I do a lot, a lot of, you know, partnerships.

• 57:17Channing Crowder?

  Just being to the financial love of your own, which is something that I, speak on me, I, I'm never be there. I don't know where y'all boys are with y'all money, but I don't think we, Shaq, you have a monthly budget?

• 57:28Shaquille O'Neal?

  No.

• 57:29Channing Crowder?

  You have a yearly budget? Like, like you just, you have a card that you just slide and it's gonna keep sliding? Cause I, I, I get emails, bro.

• 57:36Shaquille O'Neal?

  So we are.

• 57:37Channing Crowder?

  And they be like, hey, insufficient funds. I gotta, bro, I get insufficient funds emails all the time.

• 57:45Fred Taylor?

  Look at the look on his face. Why you so serious?

• 57:48Channing Crowder?

  Bro, I'm dead serious, brother. They hit me with insufficient funds at the hotel downstairs a little bit ago. I get to do my car sexy and cool. He hit it. He was like, "Mr. Crowder, insufficient funds." I was like, "Well, nah, use this one." I got another one though. "Nah, use this one."

• 58:04Shaquille O'Neal?

  So, no, I don't have an allowance, but a lot of my spending habits are fixed incomes. I take care of my mama's house, take care of... And that was a fix, so I know what I'm putting out, right? So if I know I'm putting that out, I gotta do something to offset that.

• 58:23Shaquille O'Neal?

  I do have a miscellaneous do what I want fund. And that's based on, I met a guy one time, a rich guy. He was Beverly Hills, all this. And then, like I always tell my kids, that we make a lot of money, but we, we, we, we rich, we not wealthy. So I used to see this guy, I met a guy, and I was like, "How do you stay rich?" And he pulled out a hundred dollar bill and he ripped it in half. And he said, "What's this?" I said, "Fifty-fifty." He said, "You save fifty. That's cool. We can spend this." But he said, "The wealthy people do this.

• 58:57Shaquille O'Neal?

  You save this, ball out with that, whatever you want to do." So I didn't really spend none of my checks until I got married. Like, I used to just get my Reba check and keep that for me and everything, NBA check, just don't even look at it. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. So I started doing that early, and then I started getting into investing and business, so... But the fact that I listened and the fact that my family used scare tactics, it really, uh, it really kept me in line. Cause like, I don't, I don't want to have to make that call to my mama. I mean, that, the house she in, can't pay for it. Nope, I don't. So I've always gotta, you know... Do things right, do things straight. And then, you know, you're looking at the Kennedys and how a lot of people like, you know,

• 59:41Shaquille O'Neal?

  trying to teach my kids about generational wealth. I'm like, my man, we could, I'm like, look, I started it off. But if you look at how they do it, they started off and then their kids flip it and then it can go FF. I'm trying to get to y'all, where y'all can just take it and flip it. That's what I'm trying to teach them. You don't get no cheese until you have three or four degrees. That's it.

• 1:00:01Fred Taylor?

  Oh, that's super dope.

• 1:00:02Shaquille O'Neal?

  I love that.

• 1:00:02Fred Taylor?

  I, I, I don't think we can really hit on this enough. We're all four former athletes. And really, our mission now is more than anything to give back. I mean, we've made our money and we have families. We, we do a lot. And I think this platform is, you know, more special because we, we have a voice and people can listen to us, right? A lot of young guys. And you just here talking, we just recently did Alec Fabregas, Floyd the Champ. And they had a lot of gems. They, you know, talking about giving back what they do, what, what influenced them. And, you know, looking at our sports, football, eighty-seven percent of the people, they're

• 1:00:43Fred Taylor?

  divorced, you know, filing bankrupt or what, what have you when they retire.

• 1:00:49Shaquille O'Neal?

  Same thing in the NBA.

• 1:00:50Fred Taylor?

  So, but people know you and, and right? And they, and they know what you stand for. They know you're approachable. They know your business ventures. My question to you is, do people reach out to you to help them or to give them some sort of direction?

• 1:01:04Shaquille O'Neal?

  No.

• 1:01:06Fred Taylor?

  That's, that's, that's what's so mind boggling to me.

• 1:01:08Shaquille O'Neal?

  You, you know how it is with these young cats. They make more money than we did.

• 1:01:15Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a superior like beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright twenty twenty-six Anheuser-Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 1:01:46Shaquille O'Neal?

  And can't tell them nothing. I try not to be forceful. They know if they need something, they can holler, but I try not to be forceful. Because I was like that too.

• 1:01:59Shaquille O'Neal?

  Okay, Magic, I know you took care of me when I first got to L.A., but L.A. my shit now.

• 1:02:05Ryan Clark?

  Correct.

• 1:02:06Shaquille O'Neal?

  So I kind of understand that, yeah, whatever. It's my league now. Oh, Mike gone? It's like, so I know and understand, so I don't really come down hard on them. But that's why I always try to just lead by example. Lead by example, like it's simple. I was taught that when it's very difficult, you break it down to its simplest form. Like when he gave me that business book, I didn't know what the I was looking at. And then I saw joint ventureship, I was like, partnerships? I can do that. It's easy. It's just like, you know, being on the block, being in the game. You don't want to be the guy, but you could partner up with a guy and, you know, still get the money. Know what I'm saying? Like you can give it to me, I can give it to Fred. Fred do what he do. Fred give me my cut. We straight.

• 1:02:49Shaquille O'Neal?

  And that's how, and that's how I look at, you know, joint ventureship. You run it. You do all the work. I'm gonna be the partner, I'm gonna be the money guy, and then we just gonna split.

• 1:02:58Ryan Clark?

  I love listening to you, you know, talk business, but it's another reason I wear these colors. I tell people all the time, I'm not a Laker fan. I was a Kobe and Shaq fan. And I lived and I died with it and I cried sometimes and I was fired up sometimes. And when you have, you know, it's very few championship teams or teams that become legends or dynasties where people aren't linked, whether it's, you know, Magic and Kareem, Scottie and Mike. You and Kobe will forever be linked. And I think part of that story will also always be, how many could they have won? When you look back on those times with him, what stands out to you?

• 1:03:40Shaquille O'Neal?

  We will always forever go down as the most enigmatic.

• 1:03:46Shaquille O'Neal?

  Most dominant, controversial, one-two punch, big, little, ever. When you're dealing with a guy that wants it, keeps you on your toes. But let's talk in street terms. I had to block for a long time. But you got another kid who has the potential to run the block. He wants your block. So he gonna keep me on my toes. That's why I got the average forty. Like, I'm looking at that. He got twenty-five. I gotta get forty. So you look at our relationship. It was perfect, but it was non-perfect. Perfect that he made me play at a certain level. I made him play at a certain level. Able to win three. Did we get along all the times on the court?

• 1:04:31Shaquille O'Neal?

  No. But we know in sports, that's how it is in the locker room. You give me a team where guys like each other, we gonna bust their ass every time. Because you're too nice. And as a leader, you either focus on the task or you focus on the relationship. I had to focus on the task. The task was to win. So I'm the big brother. You little brother. You may not like my ways. And he was different. He was extraterrestrial different. He's the guy that's gonna be in the gym a hundred hours a day. Not me. I'm three hours, then I'm going to South Beach. I'm going to prom on twelve. Then I get back when I get back. And he was like, no, I'm in him. But there's different ways to win. But people always ask me, if you had to go back and do it again, what would you do?

• 1:05:16Shaquille O'Neal?

  Nothing. Because he won three out of four. After we played, I wish we could have communicated more. Because I still have sleepless nights. Because I was hit with a double whammy. Sister passed away first, and I only saw her four times. And I'm quick to, I gotta go do this podcast. I'll call him later. And then never get to it. So when I find out, you know, my sister called me on Thursday, like, I'm in the hospital. I go see her. Hey, baby, you OK? Yeah, I'm good, I'm good. All right, I gotta go to L.A. Be back on Sunday. You want me to stay? I can't, no, I can't. So I leave. As I'm on a plane, she passes away. So I'm sick about that. And I can't sleep now. Like, I be watching Netflix, and I be watching a whole bunch of shit.

• 1:06:01Shaquille O'Neal?

  So then, one day, I'm sitting in the house, and my son come up crying.

• 1:06:08Shaquille O'Neal?

  So you know when your son come up crying, you try to think about it before like, is it grandma? Is it his, is it my mama? He said, yo, man, Kobe just died in a helicopter crash. And I was just watching the night before when LeBron passed him up, I was like, y'all bullshitting. It's a hoax, stop it. And Sean, he called me crying. And I said, hold on, let me verify it. And I called my guy from the sheriff office, he said it was true. I start crying. And I'm like, damn it, I didn't even holler at him. Last time, you know, we did the sit down, everybody was waiting for, that's the last time I hollered. Like, I didn't get the number. I didn't text him, I didn't holler him, and that still haunts me.

• 1:06:49Shaquille O'Neal?

  All the shit we went through, we could have shook hands and put that aside, because people think it was worse than it was. It's just two brothers going at it. Two guys with, you know, difference of opinion. I always tell people, after my first championship, when I go like this, it's a million motherfuckers in the arena. Who jumps in my arms first?

• 1:07:09Shaquille O'Neal?

  So if we hate each other, how you have that moment? Look, I got a little brother, we argue all the time. My cousin live with me, we argue and fight all the time. But the thing that kept us going was the respect. When I get double teamed, you know I'm looking for him. When he get double teamed by the room, he looking for me. All that other shit that everybody was shouting boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then, when I left, it wasn't about me and him, it was about the business of basketball. They wanted to go younger. They say, hey, man, we owe you forty next year, but, you know, we don't want to give it to you. We want you to go down to twenty-five. Twenty-five, plus FICA in L.A.? That's my twelve million, I ain't doing that shit. I ain't doing that shit. No way, I got five kids, no, hell no. So then, you know, they said we gonna trade you.

• 1:07:54Shaquille O'Neal?

  And that's how I got to Miami. But, being that I was who I was, I got to pick and choose where I go. Because I'm watching TV and I'm like, this motherfucker in Miami, he nice.

• 1:08:04Shaquille O'Neal?

  So I said, I'm going to Miami. And that's how I got to Miami.

• 1:08:07Channing Crowder?

  You had any regrets with Kobe?

• 1:08:09Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:10Channing Crowder?

  With that whole L.A. situation? Because it seemed like, it seemed like it got to you, bro.

• 1:08:14Shaquille O'Neal?

  While we played, no, I don't have any regrets while we played, because that, that, listen, that's how it is. That's how it was in high school, you gotta jump on your boys, your boys jump on you. That's how it was at LSU. But the respect was like, I ain't gonna never disrespect you, you never disrespect me. But, you know, I think the people. And look, he had his guy he talked to, I had my guy who was talked to. But I was looking at it as a marketing standpoint. I want you to talk about me. I want you to talk about me. Please, please talk about me. Keep my name in your mouth and, you know, keep thinking we ain't gonna win. You know, we down the series, keep thinking we not gonna win. And, you know, they, they made it look like, oh, they couldn't get along. Hey, I had nothing to do with that. I'm not going from forty to twenty-five. No way.

• 1:08:58Shaquille O'Neal?

  And then I get to, you know, Miami and they give me what I want. So, no, I'm not gonna do that. And, but, you know, it's like every basic karate movie. At some point, the young Jedi must take out the master. It's like every, you know, Godfather movie. I was a Godfather for a long time and they, they clipped me, boom, boom, boom. They thought I was dead. I ended up in Miami and I started a new family. So, and it's business. I didn't take it personal. The only thing I regret is I could have hollered.

• 1:09:24Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:25Shaquille O'Neal?

  Could have hollered.

• 1:09:26Ryan Clark?

  What do you think kept you both from reaching out and doing that?

• 1:09:29Shaquille O'Neal?

  I don't have no excuses, but I work a lot, brother. I have, I have a, I have a queen named Dr. Lucille. And then I gotta make sure she's straight. I got two wonderful ladies who gave me children. I gotta make sure they're straight. I got six kids, I gotta make sure they're straight. I got businesses to make sure people, I gotta, so I work a lot. That's an excuse. I shouldn't have an excuse. I should, it's because it, it don't, it don't take you nothing to go. But, because we on the phone anyway. World Star, looking at this, look TikTok, so don't, don't take you no time to be like, hey, man, what's happening? Like a text or something. I never, I never did it, he never did it. And that's what hurt me the most. It really is. I, I like, I, I, I think about it all the time. And I have, I have pictures of him in my house and when I see him, I'm like.

• 1:10:15Shaquille O'Neal?

  And I have pictures of my sister, I'm like, and I, I can't sleep. So, I, only thing about my sleep deprivation is I still get six, seven hours. But tonight I'm gonna probably get home by twelve. Smoke some hookah, watch some TV, look at some highlights and just be like two, three, four, five, and then probably get in the bed about six.

• 1:10:36Fred Taylor?

  Wow.

• 1:10:36Shaquille O'Neal?

  And then wake up around one. I, I, I, I can't sleep, brother. Can't sleep.

• 1:10:41Fred Taylor?

  Share with us your favorite Kobe memory or story that just makes you smile every time.

• 1:10:47Shaquille O'Neal?

  So I think it's our, it was our first year after we had the scare in Portland, but now we in the finals. I foul out.

• 1:10:54Fred Taylor?

  In the end?

• 1:10:54Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah, refs is bullshitting in Indiana. I'm nervous because I'm like, fuck, if we don't win, I already know it's coming here. We up three, they tie this, we gonna be in trouble. Everybody's panicking on the bench and Kobe goes,

• 1:11:08Shaquille O'Neal?

  I'm like, my fuck. And he whispers, I got you, big dog. That's what he says.

• 1:11:16Fred Taylor?

  I got you, big dog.

• 1:11:17Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah, and that little five, six minutes, I'm, I'm on the bench like, like I knew he was nice, I'm like, damn.

• 1:11:22Fred Taylor?

  Went crazy.

• 1:11:23Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah, he went crazy. And then I, I just, look, I got the press card, I said, this is my, the best player in the world. Yes. No, he, he really is. Like it, and he my, like gonna tell you they gonna like, Mike was like that. And anybody that's gonna say, watch this, and they do it. And he was like that. Like when, like, like his rookie year, he used to be practicing moves without the ball. And shoot around, because he didn't start, so he'd be in the corner.

• 1:11:48Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah, no, no, that's what my fuck did be. Like he's shooting, he motherfucking his elbow. He just, he, he was doing all that and people thought he was crazy, but, you know, when they talk about that first in the gym and last in the league, that was him. He worked out like that. Like he, he really wanted to be the best. Like, the best title is throwing around too much for me. I want to be the most dominant. I want my be afraid of me. I'll forget all that best. I'm not, because my, my thing is, who I'm working out for? Tim Duncan? David Robson. Sean Bradley.

• 1:12:21Fred Taylor?

  Chris Dudley. No, Chris Dudley still won't put hands on you.

• 1:12:25Channing Crowder?

  Who you put your nuts all on his shoulders? I'm Dudley and then mush him into the stands? Why you do that man like that, Shaq?

• 1:12:33Shaquille O'Neal?

  Because when I got the ball and I'm looking and you motherf**ers not doubling, I take that as a sign of disrespect.

• 1:12:39Channing Crowder?

  But you didn't gotta put your nuts on his shoulders.

• 1:12:40Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yes, I do. Yes, I do. You better double, triple me. I take it as a sign of disrespect. That's why when we played Philly in the finals, I was going so hard at Dikembe.

• 1:12:50Channing Crowder?

  Because they thought they go single.

• 1:12:51Shaquille O'Neal?

  No, no. He's like, oh, I'm the defensive player of the year. We gonna see. Put this ball right in your face.

• 1:12:56Fred Taylor?

  I'm about to say, you did Dikembe wrong. That man just wanted world peace.

• 1:12:59Channing Crowder?

  He ain't even put his finger up no more. He was just shaking his fist.

• 1:13:05Channing Crowder?

  But Shaq, I gotta ask you, man. You know, I'm the nasty one on the show. Bro, you're gigantic. Like, I gave you dap. And my head hit your nipple when we dapped up. Bro, what challenges does your size give in sexual relations with a woman?

• 1:13:25Channing Crowder?

  Give me, I need three follow-ups because I have some stuff. I have some stuff I had to ask.

• 1:13:29Shaquille O'Neal?

  I'm not answering that because you didn't ask deeply that.

• 1:13:32Channing Crowder?

  Shaq, if you go missionary, like, I like to go missionary and kiss when I'm doing it. If you go missionary, the girl licking your belly button.

• 1:13:42Channing Crowder?

  Like, I don't know, like, what goes on? Like, what's your sexual relations like? You're too big to have normal sexual relations.

• 1:13:51Shaquille O'Neal?

  I'm gonna save it myself.

• 1:13:53Channing Crowder?

  What, and they say you got five, six of them. Coach, please save yourself.

• 1:13:57Fred Taylor?

  You got six kids, Coach. What is it called in the NBA right now? When they saving theyself?

• 1:14:03Channing Crowder?

  Low management.

• 1:14:03Fred Taylor?

  Low management.

• 1:14:05Channing Crowder?

  You got no low management. You got six kids. Like, what? The challenges, are there certain positions you can do? Like, what goes on when you're your size with a normal-sized human being?

• 1:14:14Shaquille O'Neal?

  It's all about geometry.

• 1:14:17Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah, sort of like a view.

• 1:14:19Channing Crowder?

  Let me see. So you're the big bottle?

• 1:14:21Shaquille O'Neal?

  Seven foot one.

• 1:14:22Channing Crowder?

  And the girl's the little bottle.

• 1:14:23Shaquille O'Neal?

  You see the hand is right there. You see the midsection is right where it need to be.

• 1:14:27Channing Crowder?

  But it's not where it needs to be because I know where the genitals are.

• 1:14:30Shaquille O'Neal?

  And that's why you got to arch that back a little.

• 1:14:41Shaquille O'Neal?

  This boy crazy.

• 1:14:42Ryan Clark?

  I knew it was coming.

• 1:14:44Channing Crowder?

  I was waiting on it.

• 1:14:45Ryan Clark?

  Because I just don't know, like, it, it, like.

• 1:14:47Shaquille O'Neal?

  I'm saving myself, that, that's all I'm doing.

• 1:14:49Channing Crowder?

  You're a virgin.

• 1:14:50Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yep.

• 1:14:52Ryan Clark?

  Hey, but we started this whole thing, and the man said, I made mistakes.

• 1:14:56Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:57Ryan Clark?

  Them mistakes, wasn't eating too many wings. You know what I'm saying? So, so what I do know is, he ain't saving himself.

• 1:15:04Channing Crowder?

  No, no, no, he can't, can't, he can't fix you down.

• 1:15:08Channing Crowder?

  Do you thirty-four and a half, or what do you do? Do y'all split, split options? Bro, I need to know, man, you big as shit.

• 1:15:16Shaquille O'Neal?

  This boy crazy right now.

• 1:15:19Fred Taylor?

  That is crazy, man.

• 1:15:21Shaquille O'Neal?

  That's why I love this show, man.

• 1:15:23Fred Taylor?

  This guy, he's amazing, he's amazing, I just fill in.

• 1:15:28Fred Taylor?

  But, I mean, this, for me, this is it for me, man, because I watch you guys a lot on TNT. I, I love everything you do, man, what you stand for, business, life, as a person. You know, you just, straight up, you know, the Lakers. You would think me and Channing were chillies, dude, I got the Lakers jersey, he got the hat. What's up?

• 1:15:47Ryan Clark?

  They suck, no.

• 1:15:48Fred Taylor?

  What's going on with them?

• 1:15:51Shaquille O'Neal?

  Charles said it, and I didn't believe it, but starting to think about it. They may be a little too old. You know, with us being fans, and us recognizing greatness, when you put those names together, like, there's some, I was like, ooh, Westbrook?

• 1:16:03Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 1:16:04Shaquille O'Neal?

  Ooh, Mello?

• 1:16:05Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:05Shaquille O'Neal?

  I thought they were gonna do something, but, you know, the only knock on LeBron is that, they don't fear him anymore.

• 1:16:14Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 1:16:15Shaquille O'Neal?

  He's, he's older, and they know he's getting older, so these, these young, Channing, Marant, and them people, they, they, they don't care nothing about that no more. When you got that, and then you got guys, me and In-N-Out, and you got Anthony Davis being nicknamed Street Clothes, a guy that's supposed to take him, he's not playing. It's not gonna turn out great, and then, you know, uh...

• 1:16:35Ryan Clark?

  Color Man, Street Clothes, though?

• 1:16:37Fred Taylor?

  I'm trying not to say that, bro.

• 1:16:39Shaquille O'Neal?

  Barkley said that.

• 1:16:40Ryan Clark?

  Mark him with the street clothes.

• 1:16:42Shaquille O'Neal?

  But, uh, I think you have to look at the people who put that together. I think you, I think you're gonna have to get some younger people around Bron Bron. And Russ was having a, never seen him off like that before. I think, you know, a lot of things, you know, just got to his head, but hopefully they can, they, they can come back, but I... I wouldn't think they'd miss the playoffs totally, but like, like they, like they didn't even make the playoffs, so.

• 1:17:04Channing Crowder?

  I think Russ needs Lacy. I don't think he can see the rim. You're not gonna, that's my, that's my favorite current player, you gonna stop? Russell Westbrook? Yes. Bro, he can't shoot no more. He doesn't even hit the rim. Sometimes. Sometimes it hits the backboard.

• 1:17:17Channing Crowder?

  Sometimes. It's like Shaq shooting free throws.

• 1:17:22Channing Crowder?

  That's like, yeah, I don't know, I thought Shaq needed, but I see now his eyes so close together, I see why when you be close to the rim.

• 1:17:28Shaquille O'Neal?

  Ray used to sit behind the bench and talk shit when I missed free throws, but when I make them, I come back to the bench, he, he give me this.

• 1:17:34Channing Crowder?

  Back in my head?

• 1:17:35Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yes, back in my head, he'd be like that, so I'd stop it.

• 1:17:37Channing Crowder?

  I was the biggest, I was a big, big, big supporter, bro. Shaq, what happened with the free throws, man? All them years, bro, you can't, this rim right there, you standing there.

• 1:17:45Shaquille O'Neal?

  First, first of all, I.

• 1:17:46Channing Crowder?

  Just throw them in there.

• 1:17:47Shaquille O'Neal?

  First of all, my average is fifty percent, that's make one, miss one. You talking to me like I don't hit.

• 1:17:51Channing Crowder?

  Fifty percent?

• 1:17:52Shaquille O'Neal?

  My f- that's make one, miss one.

• 1:17:53Channing Crowder?

  That is terrible.

• 1:17:54Shaquille O'Neal?

  You're right, but it's still make one, miss one. You're right, it's terrible, but.

• 1:17:58Channing Crowder?

  That's true, it's make one, miss one.

• 1:17:59Shaquille O'Neal?

  But you acting like I don't hit the m- at all. When I need to hit them, I'm gonna hit them. Like I said, he, he used to be behind the bench like.

• 1:18:08Channing Crowder?

  Hey, basketball looks like an orange in his head.

• 1:18:11Shaquille O'Neal?

  No, he would, but then, but then like, you know, when I hit the ones that I need to hit, like, you know, game four against the Mavericks.

• 1:18:16Channing Crowder?

  Yeah. Nice shot. But, no, no, no, does that have anything to do with it? Cause I heard that.

• 1:18:20Shaquille O'Neal?

  No.

• 1:18:20Channing Crowder?

  Your hands are too big to shoot the ball, because you holding that m- like it's a marble, and you been looking all awkward.

• 1:18:27Shaquille O'Neal?

  I think it was a way to keep me humble. Imagine me being me and shooting like Steph Curry. I wouldn't even be here right now. I'd be so m- arrogant. Think about that. I think it just kept me humble. Cause there was no, it was something I knew, something I wasn't really good at, I had to work on, and it made me vulnerable, but I think about it all the time. If I was me, the way I played and shot that m- like Curry ninety percent.

• 1:18:51Shaquille O'Neal?

  You already can't tell me nothing, but just imagine me being that. I wanted to pass Wilt Chamberlain in upping points. Yeah. Because I was gonna have a very arrogant press conference. I'm the most dominant motherfucker ever. I don't want to hear nobody else's name, period, shut up. So my question to the panel is, once LeBron passes Kareem, is that gonna make him the best player ever?

• 1:19:12Ryan Clark?

  No.

• 1:19:12Shaquille O'Neal?

  Okay. MJ?

• 1:19:15Ryan Clark?

  It does give him, though, the greatest career ever. I think.

• 1:19:19Shaquille O'Neal?

  You ain't making no sense.

• 1:19:20Ryan Clark?

  I'm making a ton of sense.

• 1:19:21Shaquille O'Neal?

  He passed, he, he's. If you pass Kareem, that dude, you're borrowing points. You already passed, your man Jordan in points.

• 1:19:28Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, but also too.

• 1:19:28Shaquille O'Neal?

  So why that don't make him the best player ever?

• 1:19:30Ryan Clark?

  Because, because when we're talking about the best player, that doesn't, to me, include longevity. The best player is, Shaq, I'm gonna say this Shaq.

• 1:19:38Shaquille O'Neal?

  I don't have an answer.

• 1:19:39Ryan Clark?

  Shaq, I'm, I'm a Michael Jordan, Kobe fan. Like, I like, I like killers, right? I like killers. And the thing I remember the most about Michael Jordan when he was at his peak, my pops was a Detroit Pistons fan. And he would walk around the house saying, "Bad boys, bad boys." And I would cry, like, when they would beat him, you know what I mean? And then when Mike really became Mike, I remember never having fear. Whether it was Utah, Phoenix, if it's Knicks in the Eastern Conference Finals, I never panicked. Because I was like, they got Mike. And that, and the, the separation between Mike and the rest of the world was so big, it's so vast, it looked like he came from the future.

• 1:20:21Shaquille O'Neal?

  Okay, but we.

• 1:20:21Ryan Clark?

  That's not LeBron.

• 1:20:22Shaquille O'Neal?

  But we live in a world with titles, right?

• 1:20:25Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:25Shaquille O'Neal?

  So if Charlie with his lovely camera get 10 Oscars, and then my man get the same camera and he get 12 Oscars, wouldn't that make him better than Charlie? I'm just asking, so you talking.

• 1:20:35Ryan Clark?

  Why, because he tried to say Bill Russell?

• 1:20:36Shaquille O'Neal?

  No, I'm just saying. Bronn passed everybody up, so how come he's not the best? He talking about not in titles, but in numbers and in stats and in points. He passed Kobe, he passed Mike.

• 1:20:46Fred Taylor?

  Big dog, in my book, I, I, I'm rocking with Bronn. I loved Mike growing up. But I'm looking at longevity, I'm looking at the numbers, I'm looking at what Bron did.

• 1:20:55Shaquille O'Neal?

  I know exactly what Bron trying to do. He trying to pass that man up in points.

• 1:21:00Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, Kareem.

• 1:21:01Shaquille O'Neal?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:02Ryan Clark?

  Sure.

• 1:21:02Shaquille O'Neal?

  I would.

• 1:21:03Fred Taylor?

  It's coming.

• 1:21:04Shaquille O'Neal?

  No, he will, I would.

• 1:21:05Fred Taylor?

  It's definitely here.

• 1:21:06Shaquille O'Neal?

  And that's gonna be an interesting conversation.

• 1:21:08Ryan Clark?

  So I think the, the, the last question I would have is, you know, we've talked about many of your accolades and all the things that you've accomplished. And you sit in same seat I sit in for football now. When you hear these players being compared to you, because they speak about them in dominance. The KDs, Giannis is a name they use very often in comparison to you. When you hear those things, are you like, shit? They ain't nowhere near as dominant as me, or is it a?

• 1:21:38Shaquille O'Neal?

  I do.

• 1:21:39Ryan Clark?

  Wow.

• 1:21:39Shaquille O'Neal?

  Because a lot of time they just throw these words around based on one game, two game, one year.

• 1:21:47Shaquille O'Neal?

  Like, when you look at the things that Will and I did our whole career. Nobody ever played me one on one. Like, if I, if I got played one on one and get forty, and then I come home, my father be like, you should have played, you, my, you should have had sixty. A and W, I only had that forty. So, he, he's, he is playing great, but one, it's an honor to have these guys compared to me, it's an honor, but arrogantly and athletically speaking, I'm like, nah, they don't, they don't get no props. Giannis gets props. Everybody else, I don't, I don't, I don't wanna hear no other names about what they doing, how they in B, all that. Giannis gets props, because Giannis play, he play hard, he play strong, he don't care about the next guy.

• 1:22:31Shaquille O'Neal?

  He not trying to leave his little ass city and go to a big city and get more props. I, I mess with Giannis.

• 1:22:38Ryan Clark?

  Well, big men ain't respected like that no more, Shaq. I gotta break it to you.

• 1:22:41Shaquille O'Neal?

  They ain't.

• 1:22:42Ryan Clark?

  The big men ain't.

• 1:22:43Shaquille O'Neal?

  Because they like to step out and shoot threes. So like, I got to him one day, you couldn't play today, so I'd be dominant. Because I'm not gonna do what everybody else do. I'm different, I'm not, I ain't shooting no motherfucking three. Soon as Joel shoot a three, I'm gonna run by his ass, Fred gonna get the rebound, throw it to me, and I'm gonna try to check the motherfucking rim up.

• 1:23:00Fred Taylor?

  We talked about even beforehand, and I'll rap this. I'll let LSU brother rap it, but I'll get close to it. But we talked about beforehand.

• 1:23:13Shaquille O'Neal?

  Because I don't want to be rapped by no gator anyway.

• 1:23:14Fred Taylor?

  Look at you, bro. But we talked about the rule changes, NFL, you know, that made the game better. It's softer. The same thing with your league, with the NBA, right?

• 1:23:24Shaquille O'Neal?

  It's so soft.

• 1:23:25Fred Taylor?

  So we talked about that, so we all can imagine what you would do in today's. Today's game.

• 1:23:30Shaquille O'Neal?

  I'm averaging 50. At least when I'm averaging 50, if you paying dudes 250, what you gonna pay me?

• 1:23:36Fred Taylor?

  300. But.

• 1:23:38Shaquille O'Neal?

  And then, and then, and then, and then this is a flagrant foul? You're always gonna be thrown out the game trying to stop me.

• 1:23:43Fred Taylor?

  Biggest pivot in life?

• 1:23:45Ryan Clark?

  When you look at the situation that Shaquille O'Neal, with whatever arrogance, with whatever ego, with whatever accomplishments, the biggest change or adjustment you ever had to make, or a life-changing event that happened to you that caused Shaquille O'Neal to be different, what would it be?

• 1:24:05Shaquille O'Neal?

  You just realize that just because things you do may make it seem like you're perfect, you're not perfect. Big mistake in the Penny relationship. Big mistake in the Kobe relationship. Horrible mistake in both marriages. Other than that, I don't really dwell on a lot, but those things I really dwell on. Because one, I know better. And sometime when you get, you know, and I don't like to make excuses, but I had, I had a lot going on. I was arrogant, I was dumb. And sometime when you do a lot of stuff, you don't want to work at stuff.

• 1:24:48Shaquille O'Neal?

  Like when I come home, I want it to be a certain way, but you all married, and it ain't like that. They have feelings, they have wants too, and I ain't doing all that. So those are only three major regrets that I have. Everything else, I try not to dwell on. Glad that I've lived my life and I did it my way. Talking to ugly ass boy over here. You know, I don't. I don't hold back what I say. I'm not gonna disrespect you, but you're not gonna make me believe what you want me to believe. Fifty years old, my way has been working, so I'm gonna continue to do it my way. And if I happen to say something and we get, go viral and all that, I'll know if I made

• 1:25:33Shaquille O'Neal?

  a mistake when I get the call from the woman of my dreams, Dr. Lucille O'Neal, and then I'll correct it. If she called me and said, "Baby, don't do that. Don't do that," then I'll say, "I [bleep] up." But if I don't get that call, you can tweet and write and complain and do all that. It don't matter, because, you know, we're supposed to, you know, we're supposed to be able to have a voice of opinion. I don't like dudes that went to, that went to University of Florida. I don't mean I'm gonna disrespect them, I don't like them.

• 1:26:02Ryan Clark?

  I just wanted to say, one regret.

• 1:26:04Shaquille O'Neal?

  Hold on, man, I ain't finished talking, man. I don't like dudes that went to Arkansas. I hate dudes that went to Mississippi State. That, that, that's just how we are, Alisha, but, you know, you know, you ain't gonna change. Interrupt me one more time, see what happens.

• 1:26:16Ryan Clark?

  Listen, Shaq, I'm gonna dive on your big ass. Listen, you, you [bleep] went the wrong one. You know what, you know what the best, biggest regret was? Your ass ain't wearing them [bleep] socks tonight. Your ass, your ankle, mother [bleep]. My dad. Hey, I don't say this, man.

• 1:26:32Shaquille O'Neal?

  Y'all can have me on this show anytime, bro.

• 1:26:34Ryan Clark?

  Hey, like, Frank Sinatra said, man, you did it your way, man. We so grateful you came in, dawg. We appreciate you, my guy, dawg.

• 1:26:41Speaker 06

  Aristotle.

• 1:26:42Ryan Clark?

  Appreciate y'all, dawg. You're stupid, dawg. Appreciate you, big homie. Thank you, my dog.

• 1:27:12Speaker 06

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 1:27:22Speaker 06

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