Charlize Theron: I Don’t Need a Man

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Charlize Theron. Charlize discusses her current approach to dating, being a single mom, and why marriage isn’t necessarily for her. She also opens up about her therapy journey, navigating power imbalances in Hollywood, and finding healing. Enjoy!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 0:45Alex Cooper?

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• 1:00Speaker 01

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• 1:31Alex Cooper?

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• 2:15Alex Cooper?

  What is up Daddy Gang? It is your founder, Father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:24Alex Cooper?

  Charlize Theron, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 2:26Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 2:27Alex Cooper?

  I'm so excited to be meeting you.

• 2:29Speaker 03

  The same here.

• 2:30Alex Cooper?

  Cheers to it's happy hour.

• 2:34Speaker 03

  Somewhere in the world.

• 2:35Alex Cooper?

  Somewhere in the world, it's happy hour. We're cheersing. We've got a little vodka and we're gonna have a great conversation today. You love, you're in your cozies.

• 2:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, I apologize if I was supposed to get dressed up.

• 2:45Alex Cooper?

  No, no, no, I'm usually in my cozies and I have to, I have a meeting after this. I would usually be wearing exactly what you're me wearing. So this is perfect.

• 2:53Speaker 03

  You look great.

• 2:53Alex Cooper?

  You look like me today and I maybe look like you in another life. Um, okay. In doing research for this interview, I realized we have a couple of things in common. And maybe we'll find out more today, but one of them being we're notoriously known for saying the word fuck.

• 3:06Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 3:08Alex Cooper?

  I am.

• 3:08Speaker 03

  That's why I love your show.

• 3:11Speaker 03

  Well, I love your show for many, I just love, you're very authentic and I love your use of the word because, you know, if somebody uses it that much, it has to feel like it's coming from a real place. And yours feels very grounded.

• 3:23Alex Cooper?

  I, okay. I haven't heard you say it yet, but I know it's gonna come out today, but I'm like, I've heard that you have, you say it all the time.

• 3:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:30Alex Cooper?

  I remember reading it said Hollywood Reporter profile said that you said fuck 154 times in three hours in an interview.

• 3:37Speaker 03

  They'd have to fact check that. I don't think that's true. There's no way.

• 3:40Alex Cooper?

  She's an icon.

• 3:41Speaker 03

  Possible.

• 3:42Alex Cooper?

  Have you ever said it in a really like inappropriate setting where people were like Charlize, what the fuck are you doing?

• 3:49Speaker 03

  Listen, I, I, I, I, I have definitely, I'm trying to think of how to say this without

• 3:59Speaker 03

  getting the right context around it. I swear in front of my kids because I feel like, you know, I feel like I, like I am a responsible mom, but I also, I am who I am. I'm not ashamed of who I am. I, I also want to teach my kids that there are things for them to look forward to. They don't necessarily get to say that right now, but that's really fun because they're going to grow up and get to say what they want. And also just because.

• 4:27Speaker 03

  It's, sometimes it's hard to articulate exactly what fuck cannot replace. Like, I just feel, and maybe that's because my vocabulary is just not very strong and English is a second language, but it just, there's, it's hard to sometimes really get that thing across, you know, and you can just, you can special size it, you can custom it for your, whatever that fuck is that you need, you know?

• 4:52Alex Cooper?

  It's fucking amazing.

• 4:55Speaker 03

  I do this really fun thing with my kids in the morning when we drive to school. They DJ, so I can't DJ at all. So they all take my phone and they'll just like alternate with each other and like play songs. And then they got a little older, they were like, you know, it used to be like the clean versions. And then it was like, Mom, can we like play the dirty versions? And I was like, okay, just for this car ride. So in the mornings, this is now where I think they get a half hour of just getting, they play it, every inappropriate song so incredibly loud that I like lose my hearing and we're driving for a half hour and they're screaming every single inappropriate words that they possibly can. And then I load, and I can tell like all that energy's out. They're gonna have a great day at school. And then I put a podcast on and I probably listen to you. It's like, by 10 a.m. I've

• 5:39Speaker 03

  had a full life. It's a, it's a full day.

• 5:42Alex Cooper?

  You're listening to like WAP at like 7 a.m. You're like, that's amazing.

• 5:47Speaker 03

  It's great. It's great.

• 6:05Alex Cooper?

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• 8:59Alex Cooper?

  Okay, let's go back to beginning days of your life. You grew up on a farm in South Africa.

• 9:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:06Alex Cooper?

  What was that like?

• 9:08Speaker 03

  It was.

• 9:11Speaker 03

  It was normal. You know, it's what I knew. It's all of my friends kind of grew up on these small farms. They weren't like these like out of Africa kind of farms. They were called small, small holdings. We ate off the land and lived off the land. My mom grew. She's, she's growing stuff on our farm out in Ojai now. She's like a, just a natural farmer. Knows everything about fruits and vegetables. So we, we, we lived a farm life, but not as isolated as people would imagine a farm life to be.

• 9:43Alex Cooper?

  And growing up, you went to a boarding school, right?

• 9:46Speaker 03

  High school, yeah.

• 9:47Alex Cooper?

  If I was to ask your classmates, like, what were you like in high school? What do you think they would say?

• 9:53Speaker 03

  Well, that'd be interesting. I think there was a side of me, you know, my, I grew, my, my, there was a lot of alcoholism in my family on both sides and a lot of shame.

• 10:08Speaker 03

  That I think kids in general have about a parent that might be an alcoholic.

• 10:16Speaker 03

  Because my dad was like,

• 10:20Speaker 03

  very, uh, he'd show up in states that, you know, was just very inconsistent. And so I think my friends or people who knew me in school would say that there was a part of me that was very,

• 10:35Speaker 03

  like, closed off and

• 10:39Speaker 03

  not necessarily sharing the truth about my, who I was in my life, like, kind of, I think, I think I created somewhat of an alter ego that came from like a happy house and like my family were good, happy people and,

• 10:55Speaker 03

  and I think.

• 10:57Speaker 03

  The other side would probably be that I I never really like fit in anywhere.

• 11:06Speaker 03

  It wasn't that I was unpopular. It was just that I almost like really wanted, there were two girls that I very vividly remember in both my lower school and my high school.

• 11:20Speaker 03

  And one was called Charlene in lower school and the other one was called Marliese in my high school. They were both girls that I absolutely just admired. Like I just thought the world of them. And if you ask me today, why I actually couldn't answer that.

• 11:38Alex Cooper?

  Do you think it was like their aura?

• 11:40Speaker 03

  Yes, I think it was their confidence and that they were authentically, truthfully,

• 11:48Speaker 03

  being who not only they are, but also living the truth of their circumstance at home. I think that was the thing that I really admired about them. Not that they had,

• 11:59Speaker 03

  I don't think they dealt with this, the same issues that I, I don't think that a parent that was dealing with alcoholism, but I, and I still have this with women who like when they date, they're just like very open and honest. Like they don't try and hide anything. They'll say whatever they want. They're not walking on eggshells. And I think that's the part that kids in my school probably remember the most, but it's, I think now, looking back at it, I understand why I was that way better.

• 12:28Alex Cooper?

  But don't you think when you look back to like, why you admired those girls so much? What you're saying also is like, being that young and like masking in situations is exhausting. Like you wish you could just be out in the open, but family is family where you still, it is a reflection on you, even though you're doing nothing wrong, that your family is dealing with this, but you still feel this almost like pride that you have to try to uphold something because it's like currency in high school. Like what is this person like and what is their family from? And so you try to create this narrative, but that's exhausting. And then you walk in the door at home and you're like, well, this is fucking miserable. It's exhausting.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  It's very exhausting and. It's uh, it's crazy how we carry all of that weight. Like somehow it's us, like somehow their actions are reflective of us. And it's, it's, it's a crazy thing that I continued in other relationships in my life. And I just, I think I admire women who are just like, that's, that's that, like, that's not me. But that was exhausting for sure. Yeah. And it affected my life in a way that I think it took me a long time to be able to figure out. So when you ask me like, how do, how do my, my friends or people who went to school with, think of me? I think they think of me in a way that was not really authentic me. It was, it was, it was a put forth version of me.

• 13:51Alex Cooper?

  In dealing with that in high school, then I know, like, we don't need to get into all the details today, but you experienced such trauma at such a young age. How do you think experiencing that ended up impacting you in your later life? Not just in the like, oh, she's not as authentic. But then once the trauma really hit, like, how did that impact you in the next couple decades of your life?

• 14:17Speaker 03

  I think it was just, I was, I, I, the first part of it was full denial because my mom didn't really have the tools to deal

• 14:27Speaker 03

  with that tragedy. But it was also just years and years of this consistent kind of like walking into a house or waking up in the morning and not knowing what I was walking into. It's like a lot of people say about living with an alcoholic, right? You're kind of living at their whim, like whatever they're feeling that day or wherever they are. That's what is going to be the vibe and the energy of the house. And that inconsistency, I think, was what affected me way more than just that one night. And I, and I think what happened was that there was such a focus placed on that one night when that tragedy happened.

• 15:06Speaker 03

  And it was very, very unfortunate. And I wish I could say it was only a one-time occasion. This is something that happens in homes across the world more often than we want to admit. But, you know, I think.

• 15:22Speaker 03

  I think it took me like well into my late 30s to really be able to look at that and actually like shake off the weight that I felt like I carried for my father, for my mother. You know, I felt like even when I got famous, like I couldn't quite honestly speak about it because I didn't want to hurt her feelings. I felt like people were involved that didn't ask to be in the spotlight. But then I also got older and I was like, but this is also my truth. Like this is where I come from and I don't want to have shame about it anymore. You know, my dad was an alcoholic. He wasn't healthy and my mom stepped up and protected me. And if that happened to me with my children today, I can tell you right now, I would do the same thing. It doesn't make it less unfortunate, but

• 16:06Speaker 03

  you know, I but and then again, I can't protect people all the way through. Like I have to also live my authentic self. So now it's not, it's, it was a one night event in my life. I am still dealing with the everyday consistency of a lot of damage that I think I experienced as a young person, just in my every single day life.

• 16:32Alex Cooper?

  I think that is so relatable in the sense that like if there is something catastrophic that happens that shakes a family or a relationship, that event feels very like palpable and you just, people think of that event, but when you're living it, you're like, oh, it's kind of actually like not even where my head goes to when I actually think of all the trauma. Because that was an instant, the rest of my life, my entire childhood was this thing of living with this alcoholic and learning how to placate or hide or defend and shield and then go to school and pretend like this isn't ruining my entire life and smiling and pretending I'm this like cute girl that is fine, everything's fine. I know

• 17:16Alex Cooper?

  that you've talked about it, but you said later on in your life, you then got into therapy because you realized like, oh, this is really still affecting me. Was there something that made you realize like, holy fucking shit, I've got to, I've got to get control of this?

• 17:32Speaker 03

  So strangely, I went into therapy because of a relationship, a long-term relationship that I was in and it was falling apart and I I think I touched lightly on, I was in relationships in a sense, doing the same thing that I did at home, which is common, right? Walking on eggshells, trying to protect, protect ego, protect

• 17:55Speaker 03

  embarrassment for a partner, you know, because of their behavior and feeling like somehow that reflects bad on me. Like all of these things I was kind of repeating in my relationships. And I had a narcissistic boyfriend that said, you know, you're the problem. And not that I believed it, but I was, I felt like I had invested a lot of time into this relationship. And I was like, well, maybe, you know, let me put my ego aside. Maybe I am, maybe I should go. And there was always this kind of thing thrown in my face, like because everybody knew about my life, like, oh, you must be this damaged woman, right? So I went actually to try and save this relationship. And what ended up happening was that I ended up saving myself.

• 18:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. So maybe in a weird way, I do owe this guy some gratitude.

• 18:44Alex Cooper?

  Even though you were the narcissist?

• 18:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:46Alex Cooper?

  Thank you.

• 18:46Speaker 03

  Well, two things came out of it. The therapist was like, you should leave him. Yeah. And also, by the way, you're not the problem. Like other people have been the problem in your life and you need to start admitting that.

• 18:57Alex Cooper?

  I have gotten into therapy and it's changed my life too. And so I'm always such an advocate for it, but I know that everyone has to go at their own pace. So it's interesting to hear you be like, I actually went in for something that for sure was at the forefront of your life and it was like an annoyance and painful and you were like, I need to fix this. But really it's like, oh my God, girl, we have so, so many bigger problems than this like douchebag that kicked to the curb and now let's focus on you.

• 19:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:23Alex Cooper?

  Interesting. So once you got into therapy though, and you realized you needed to start working through a lot of this, did you struggle a lot with coming to terms with bringing back up trauma? Because I think a lot of people are like terrified to Engage with it because for a long time, if you just leave it in the corner, you think like, I don't need to bring all that back up. I don't want to relive those days and memories. Was it hard for you?

• 19:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, because you I've I became an expert. I practiced avoidance, right? My entire life. And also, I was the product of an environment where therapy didn't exist. In South Africa, I didn't know one person who was in there, but I don't even think we had therapists. Now, I might be totally wrong and some South African person feel like, first of all, okay, in my community, I never heard the word therapist. We also didn't have AA. Nobody was an alcoholic. You never use the word alcoholic. Like, this was just, I

• 20:29Speaker 03

  think I grew up in a culture where men were men and a real man drinks. And it was a very toxic culture. But therapy was just never something. And, you know, again, like I said, my mom didn't have the right tools. My mom, and my mom does not understand the the concept around therapy. And I don't listen. She shouldn't. She didn't have it in her life. She she doesn't know what that is. And so when it happened, her, her kind of words of wisdom, like she

• 21:10Speaker 03

  sent me to school the next day. Like, that's that that tells you everything. My mom's like a survivor. My mom is like, you wake up the next day, and you get up, and you continue, and nobody brings you down, and you just and that's what she did to me. And I was 15 years old. So coming to therapy was not because I was avoiding it. It was just so foreign to me. And even I've I'm of a generation where I didn't I didn't even know a lot of friends that were in therapy. I think I knew like, one friend that was in there. And it was this friend that I reached out to and said, could I meet with your therapist? Like, I didn't even know how to get a therapist. So it was all very foreign to me. So yeah, putting aside

• 21:53Speaker 03

  the the behavior that I had learned for years, it was also just like, it wasn't in my

• 22:01Speaker 03

  You know, in my, it wasn't, I wasn't surrounded by it in a way where it felt very natural or normal, or I had easy access to it.

• 22:09Alex Cooper?

  As you've evolved and continued to peel layers back of like how your childhood impacted you as an adult, I think I've even dealt with this with friends where it's like, as you become more therapized, you look at your relationship, obviously with your parents differently, and it sounds like you have such a beautiful relationship with your mother, but like, how have you navigated being someone in therapy and dealing with that trauma, whereas you have then someone in your family that's not? Because I feel like there's probably a lot of people listening, they're like, wait, so how do you handle those moments? We're like, no, mom, remember? And she's like, shh, let's go out to the, let's go out to the garden, honey. Like, I don't want to talk about that.

• 22:52Speaker 03

  In my 30s, it was very, it became contentious. It became, um, because I think I was finding my, my voice. And I also felt, I still, I feel very protective of my mom. Because I think that, you know, without context and people really knowing who she is and that, but you can ask anybody who knows her, she is, trust me, I cannot tell you, I can't go on a hike, I can't walk through a store without somebody coming out to be like, oh my God, I love your mom. She's one of those people that just, she has a superpower. And her superpower is incredibly infectious, but it's also very, very damaged. You know,

• 23:35Speaker 03

  she, but what therapy taught me was that she is who she is. And I'm not here to change her. And if she doesn't want to change herself, that's okay. And for our relationship, there's enough compromise there that it works, that it doesn't feel like I am compromising too much, or she's compromising too much. And we know how to kind of like, live in, be copacetic with each other and live in a very loving way with each other, without me going like, I cannot, like, you are so unhealthy, you have, like, I'm beyond that now, right? And she thinks the same thing about me. Like, she's like, okay, whatever, like, you with your therapy. And that's what I love about her. She's authentic.

• 24:18Alex Cooper?

  Beautiful.

• 24:19Speaker 03

  She's very, very authentic.

• 24:22Speaker 03

  But yeah, it's interesting not to like, I don't want to put you on the spot, but that's what I loved about hearing about your story.

• 24:28Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 24:30Speaker 03

  It's just so rare to talk to somebody on in this kind of environment. I've never had that where your story really moved me and I was actually excited to sit down with you.

• 24:40Alex Cooper?

  Thank you.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  Because sometimes I feel like, you know, you feel so kind of alone in sharing a story like that. Yours is obviously different, but to have trauma at that young age and what you experienced was really painful to to listen to and to hear your family talk about.

• 24:56Alex Cooper?

  It it is. It's like such a strange thing when you get to connect with human beings because you're right. Our stories are so different and yet.

• 25:05Speaker 03

  So similar.

• 25:06Alex Cooper?

  So similar. And there's so much pain and there's so much hiding who you really are. And I agree, like when you were talking about the women or the girls in high school that you were like, I just was, you know, like attracted to their aura. I had the same thing with so many women where I was like, I wish I could live free like that. I wish I could walk into a room and just be me and feel like I can just own it. And and I'm even if someone calls me out, I don't care. I can't get embarrassed. You can't embarrass me.

• 25:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:35Alex Cooper?

  And I didn't have that.

• 25:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:37Alex Cooper?

  So I think a lot of my career has been actually searching to find a way to get to that place. Because I wanted it.

• 25:47Speaker 03

  You're there?

• 25:48Alex Cooper?

  I feel, I feel so much more at peace, like even putting out the documentary. I feel another love like layer of peace because I think that medium also is different, like podcasting. I do this every Wednesday. Like it's a thing that my audience is used to, but putting something in a piece of work out in a different format, I think was. Really a good way to engage.

• 26:13Speaker 03

  Therapeutic in a way.

• 26:13Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 26:14Speaker 03

  Like.

• 26:14Alex Cooper?

  Artic. Yes, cuz like I kinda had hands off.

• 26:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:17Alex Cooper?

  And a director was like, I'm gonna tell your story. And I was like, please don't ruin my life.

• 26:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, no.

• 26:22Alex Cooper?

  I trust you.

• 26:23Speaker 03

  But you almost had to not be in control of it, right? Like here, you're a little in control of it and.

• 26:28Alex Cooper?

  But it was, it was kind of nice. And so I think that's how I also feel about therapy where it's like, I'm learning, I'm uncomfortable what I'm learning about myself. I hate sometimes I'm like, no, there's no way. My therapist was like, uh huh, keep going.

• 26:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:40Alex Cooper?

  We're about to get under it.

• 26:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:42Alex Cooper?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 26:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:43Alex Cooper?

  Really? So I, um, I relate a lot to that. I also was thinking about your mom when you were just saying how your relationship dynamic. You are a single mother and your mom essentially after the passing of your father became the single mother role.

• 26:58Speaker 03

  It was a single mother prior.

• 27:00Alex Cooper?

  Prior to that.

• 27:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:01Alex Cooper?

  Your whole life, she's a single mother. How have you kind of found a way to appreciate each other even more and connect on a deeper level? Becoming a mother and her watching you be a single mother also?

• 27:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, that's such a good question. I feel, yeah, it feels familiar, right? But it also feels, God, you know, if there was a caution, a cautionary tale. It was definitely their relationship and how I didn't want that. And I think in many ways, maybe that did, I think it's not just one thing, right? It's, it's, it's very layered and complicated. But one of those layers of why I don't think I am in a relationship was just purely because I still not.

• 27:54Speaker 03

  It's a combination of like, I don't want what they had and then also being very honest with myself and understanding that I, I did not have the capability of being healthy in a relationship.

• 28:09Speaker 03

  And those two things I had to acknowledge when I decided to be a parent. And I think it's probably one of the healthiest decisions I ever made. I think people look at it so like in in our society is this kind of something must be wrong with her. Right with women, it's always like something must be wrong with her. She can't keep a man and it's it can it's never part of the discussion of like, wow, she's really living her truth like she's living in her happiness like this is actually a choice that she made. I like want to just like look at them and just be like, do you know how fucking great it is? To live exactly how I want to live, to experience motherhood exactly how I wanted to experience it. And I know the next thing they say is like, well, that's not fair on your kids.

• 28:54Speaker 03

  Can I tell you something? That will be their story to tell. I can't tell you. I can only tell you that this is the best way that I know how to be a mother to them. And maybe they'll grow up and tell their story and I will respect that. I just know that this was the only way that I knew I could do it. And my fucking God, do I love every single day of it. I love that I don't have to share them with somebody. I love that I don't have to run every fucking thing by a guy. I don't, I love that I don't have to, well, oh, my God, copier. I like, I fucking love that I don't have to do any of that stuff. And my children, you know, we joke. Listen, I think you can tell like this is how I raise my kids like, right? We don't hide this shit.

• 29:37Speaker 03

  They're like, they're like, oh, my God, Mom, I can't go to Sarah's house because like her father. And I was like, oh, my God, aren't you guys so happy? We don't have to deal with that like, oh, my God, Mom.

• 29:50Alex Cooper?

  That's amazing.

• 29:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I, this was how I wanted to be. I don't even know if I'm answering your question. I'm so sorry.

• 29:56Alex Cooper?

  No, no, no, this helps because it's like you broke the cycle essentially.

• 30:01Speaker 03

  I broke the cycle. I am raising, it looks from afar like I'm doing what I know, which is being a single mom, because I was raised by pretty much a single mom. But I think I'm raising my kids as a single mom because of.

• 30:15Speaker 03

  Definitely avoidance of things that I know I don't want. And also, understanding who I am fully and being honest with who I am and what I can give right now. And who I am is, at the time that I wanted to be a parent, was not somebody who should be having kids with another person.

• 30:32Alex Cooper?

  I think that is the most mature, self-aware thing that anyone could ever fucking do.

• 30:39Speaker 03

  With kids, you have to be that honest, because it's a child's life. You have to.

• 30:43Alex Cooper?

  And you, again, sitting here being like, I've lived what a single mom looks like, who's not actually single, but she's single.

• 30:52Speaker 03

  Right. And it's like, the autonomy you've given yourself to find your happiness and give your kids a different life,

• 30:59Alex Cooper?

  and a different meaning to what a single mom is. It's beautiful.

• 31:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, it's, thank you. Thank you for recognizing that. I, I also love that, I don't know what the future is gonna hold, right? That's the other thing. It's like, this is like this moment in this time in my life now. And, I mean, I'll be honest, I have tried dating and I can tell that no man's moving into our house while my daughters are there. Like, that's, and by the way, I don't think I can do it. Like, I literally can't imagine a man moving into our house and me sharing my closet, or like, I just, I, I don't see that happening.

• 31:37Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 31:37Speaker 03

  But then I imagine like being an empty nester and how that part of my life will be, and by then feeling like maybe, I will feel like I, I wanna be in a relationship. There is this, this notion that somebody like me must be missing out on something, and that people feel sorry for you somehow, that you're missing out on love.

• 31:58Alex Cooper?

  And you're like, wait, guys, I'm, I'm telling you I'm good. And they're like, no, no, no.

• 32:02Speaker 03

  It's the thing that you don't quite realize until you have kids, and I'm not saying that it replaces one love with the other, but it is such a tremendous love that I do not miss love. You know, I might miss sex.

• 32:16Alex Cooper?

  Fair, that's fair. Like, my vibrator is only doing so much.

• 32:20Speaker 03

  No, the vibrator is good, and I'm having, listen, I'm having, I'm having.

• 32:27Speaker 03

  I'm having the kind of sex I never had in my twenties or in my thirties.

• 32:30Alex Cooper?

  Love.

• 32:31Speaker 03

  Yes. And so that part has been really exciting. Um, but I'm not missing relation, like a relationship. I'm not missing the partnership that I think people think you miss when you're me.

• 32:42Alex Cooper?

  And it feels like what you're also saying is it's not that you're not open to it. You're just at a point in your life where you're really content and you're really happy.

• 32:49Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 32:49Alex Cooper?

  And I want to also point out, because I can only imagine now even you just lightly explaining to me the judgment that comes with a woman in your position. And I, we know women in Hollywood who are single and people are like, oh, what is actually fucking wrong with her?

• 33:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, she must be a real bitch.

• 33:07Alex Cooper?

  How?

• 33:07Speaker 03

  What a cunt.

• 33:08Alex Cooper?

  Truly, like you fucking cunt. How crazy are you?

• 33:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. How crazy are you?

• 33:13Alex Cooper?

  Truly, yeah. But how gorgeous to also hear you saying like, everything you're saying makes me more wanting to put it back on other people who are so triggered of like, how many relationships do we know of these women in these households with these men? Who have lost their voice, who are not happy. It's not everyone, but being alone, you have that control that a lot of people don't have in these certain relationships that they've lost themselves to. So I think it's commendable that you're like, I know myself enough. I'm going to stay right here until I want to change it and then maybe I'll change it. But guess what? It's your decision.

• 33:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And then I watched you with your husband and I'm like, God, that's so incredible. And why can't we just as women experience these, these two? Have these two very different experiences and let that be okay.

• 34:01Alex Cooper?

  Be completely okay.

• 34:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:03Alex Cooper?

  Like, yeah, I never thought I was going to be someone that was going to get married.

• 34:06Speaker 03

  You work with your husband.

• 34:08Alex Cooper?

  And it works. And I'm like, well, fuck.

• 34:09Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 34:10Alex Cooper?

  And I get why people have opinions, but I'm like, but I'm happy.

• 34:14Speaker 03

  That's the other thing. Like, yeah, exactly. Everybody will always have a fuck. It's like an asshole. We all have one. It's like, please.

• 34:20Alex Cooper?

  Get out of here.

• 34:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. At this, at my age, I'm like, I honestly, there's like not, I can't make enough zero fucks. Like, I'm like.

• 34:31Alex Cooper?

  I love that from you though. Immediately when you sat down, I was like, I fucking love you.

• 34:35Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 34:36Alex Cooper?

  Energy is what we need. The girls need this energy. Okay, let's go back. Nineteen years old, your mom buys you a plane ticket to LA and is like, one way, you're gonna become an actress, go. And you land, what the fuck was the plan?

• 34:53Speaker 03

  Well, I think now you understand a little bit better that she was like, the next morning, she was like, you're going to school, right? So I was in New York, I was living in somebody's basement.

• 35:05Speaker 03

  I was there, I did not have, I think I overstayed on a tourist visa. So I was kind of in this no man's land of, I wasn't there legally. I couldn't really dance anymore. I wasn't happy with my life. I felt like my, my only other option was to go back to South Africa, a country that was in tremendous turmoil at the time, the brink of civil war breaking out. And I had nothing really to go back to. I like, you know, when I had to like, think about how was I gonna survive? It's like, am I really gonna

• 35:46Speaker 03

  like, take over my mom's construction company? Like, I, I was willing to take, and also when you're young, you just, you're fucking insane, you're so stupid, so naive. I was like, this sounds like the best idea ever. Yes, let's get a one-way ticket to this place called Hollywood, and I will get on this plane, mother, with this credit card that there's no money in there, I know, but you're trying to make me feel better about. And I know nobody, and I will get in a cab, and I will go and find some motel to live in. Those were better options than getting on a plane and going back to South Africa for me at that time.

• 36:25Alex Cooper?

  So you get there and like, how are you initially making ends meet before you get all?

• 36:29Speaker 03

  Modeling, yeah. So modeling was kind of my waitressing job. Turns out, nobody's really checking your visa. They every once in a while will get you an O1, but they don't really care. Um, or back then.

• 36:41Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 36:42Speaker 03

  Sorry, I'm just gonna take this out. Oh.

• 36:45Alex Cooper?

  You got it.

• 36:46Speaker 03

  I tore my quart- quartal, interquartal muscles or whatever.

• 36:51Alex Cooper?

  How?

• 36:51Speaker 03

  Coastal, intercoastal muscles?

• 36:53Alex Cooper?

  By doing something?

• 36:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, I did something stupid, but anyway.

• 36:57Alex Cooper?

  Get cozy.

• 36:58Speaker 03

  So I got here, I didn't know anybody, but modeling was always kind of an income for me.

• 37:04Alex Cooper?

  When you started making money, what did you spend your first like big paycheck on?

• 37:25Alex Cooper?

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• 38:51Alex Cooper?

  When you started making money, what did you spend your first like big paycheck on?

• 38:55Speaker 03

  I didn't make any money for a while. I was really like, not even like paycheck to paycheck. I was like two, I was waiting for two paychecks to fill in.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  The first job as a model that I ever got that I was, I, I, I remember going to the bank and cashing this check for $75,000 and I, I can tell you exactly what I wore that day. I can tell you exactly how I felt. I can tell you the, how I walked to my Ford Escort. Like I, it's so vivid in my mind because it was a moment of complete freedom. Like it's so hard to explain, but I think women or having financial freedom is something that is so important. And when you don't have it and then one day you feel like you have it, it's a feeling that you never forget.

• 39:51Alex Cooper?

  You never forget and you never want to go back.

• 39:53Speaker 03

  No.

• 39:54Alex Cooper?

  You're like.

• 39:55Speaker 03

  But I also like stupidly, I was like, well, I'm done. I'm set for life. Like I was like.

• 40:01Alex Cooper?

  I'm ballin'.

• 40:01Speaker 03

  Yeah. Like, oh, well, I don't have to worry about that again, you know? But I didn't spend it on anything. Just do, yeah, I didn't, I didn't, I, I was so scared of having to like go back to South Africa.

• 40:13Alex Cooper?

  You start getting into Hollywood as a young woman, like what were your first impressions of Hollywood?

• 40:21Speaker 03

  I couldn't, it was confusing, you know, because I didn't have really, I didn't have, I didn't know what it was. So I was kind of like, you have to understand where I was raised, we had television from

• 40:37Speaker 03

  six o'clock until nine o'clock, like we had three hours of television and then we had nothing and.

• 40:47Speaker 03

  My access to Hollywood was so limited. We had a magazine that would write about celebrities. That was really the only information that I ever got about celebrities. I watched movies and thought that it was like a job that your neighbor did. I didn't know they were celebrities. I thought that Tom Hanks was just some guy that had this job and he was an actor. The stat, like that status thing didn't exist for me. So when I got here, it was crazy. I was like, oh shit, like people are like celebrities here. So it was very, it was very strange for me. But again, I was just so excited. I was so excited.

• 41:30Alex Cooper?

  I want to ask you about one of your early auditions that you had in the industry, where a director asked you to go to his house for an audition late on a Saturday night.

• 41:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:42Alex Cooper?

  Can you just explain what happened when you got there?

• 41:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:51Speaker 03

  I didn't know what an audition or what the process really, what that looked like. An agency that I was working at as a model, I said, listen, I'm interested so naively, didn't know how you went about being an actor. I said, if you hear of any auditions, I'd like to go. And they said, oh, we think there's a casting for this movie. And you'll have to go on Saturday night. And they gave me the address and it was this director's house. And I, my, the little voice inside me definitely said, this isn't right. And, but then the other voice in me says, well, I don't know. Maybe it is right. But you know, that like, that voice that we don't listen to,

• 42:36Speaker 03

  that voice knew, that voice was like, this isn't right. And it wasn't right.

• 42:41Alex Cooper?

  And as women, like you.

• 42:44Alex Cooper?

  We're constantly in positions where we almost like we want to be like, no, I'm overreacting. Like, there's no way I'm gonna get there and it's gonna be weird. There's no way.

• 42:58Speaker 03

  And even when it is weird, you're talking yourself out of this isn't weird. Like, no, I'm taking this the wrong way. That's not what he's me with that he's not. And by the way, this guy, he got a little nervous for a while there. I've never said his name because honestly, I don't want the story to be about him. You know, honestly, it's not because I'm protecting him or anything, but he got nervous for a little bit.

• 43:19Alex Cooper?

  Why?

• 43:19Speaker 03

  Because he, he heard me tell the story and he knew it was about him. And he wrote me a pretend letter trying to explain his behavior and how I must, I must have misunderstood it. Which is classic, isn't it? It's so classic.

• 43:34Alex Cooper?

  No, Charlize.

• 43:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:36Alex Cooper?

  He wrote you a letter?

• 43:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, cuz I think he panicked. Started panicking.

• 43:40Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 43:41Speaker 03

  He was like waiting for me and I just realized like, I won't even fucking say your name because you know you're the scumbag. Like, you know it's you and if anybody ever asked me about him, I would be completely honest and he knows that. And I kind of like that he's got to be on a hot seat. He doesn't know when it's gonna come. I kind of like that a little more.

• 44:01Alex Cooper?

  I'm so sorry cuz like I opened up in my documentary about this person in a position of power that abused their power and sexually harassed me and all the things and coming forward about it, I had like such anxiety. And it's interesting cuz it's like you're in a position of power now. You were so young in your career. From what I understand, this was like a huge director.

• 44:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, huge.

• 44:27Alex Cooper?

  And the power imbalance, being there in that room on a late Saturday night, what the fuck are you gonna do? And most people would be like, well, why don't you just get up and leave and yell and go immediately report it? And it's like, it's so nuanced and complicated. Like, can you just explain? Cuz I have so many women listening, like a little bit about in those moments now, when you look back, how to not feel such shame and guilt for something that clearly was not your fault?

• 44:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's it's so hard to even it's like we can only share these experiences and we can talk about them enough so that hopefully it becomes normalized that we hear it enough where women can just go like, okay, I I've heard about this time like and you're while you're sitting in there, you can hopefully say like, okay, force yourself to do this thing that you that we maybe the the the point that I'm trying to make is that we have to be careful because it's very hard for people to understand why someone with a strong personality, someone who's outspoken, how someone like that can be find themselves in a position where they won't say something. And that is the story that it's a classic

• 45:40Speaker 03

  story, right? It's very, very complicated. And even though I want younger generations of women to not do the same thing, I also understand if they do do the same thing. Because I drove up Laurel Canyon, and I was so mad at myself. I remember like being furious with myself because I couldn't believe how I had let myself down. Like, I was like, what the fuck? Who the fuck are you? Like, where the fuck? Why the fuck would you allow that? Like, why? I still get those feelings. You know, because it's like you you know

• 46:19Speaker 03

  yourself so well, and it's very it's there's something that really like kind of like breaks my heart to the core when people so so um, in this very luxurious manner, talk about, well, you know what? Next time you should fucking say something like, don't wait 20 years. Okay, this kind of like callous way of not wanting to believe, like, that's really what it boils down to. It's instead of saying like, I don't believe you. It's like, well, don't be a fucking pussy. Like, maybe you shouldn't have been a pussy about it. And we all know what that feels like. It feels like, no matter what they say, it can't hurt more than what you're telling yourself. Like, I beat myself up over that.

• 47:04Speaker 03

  I was like, you can say whatever that you want, motherfucker. Trust me, you can't hurt me more than I hurt myself about what happened that day.

• 47:13Alex Cooper?

  I mean, even just listening to you say it, it's so.

• 47:18Alex Cooper?

  It brings up so much, I think, for every woman probably listening because you're like, you're so right. In those moments, I remember I was sitting, every time I talk about it, it makes me emotional because I was, when I was sitting on the stage at Tribeca, because that's where my documentary premiered. And I did a Q and A after and I started talking about power and balance. And when someone does something to you and you're in this moment and you freeze and or you fawn or whatever it be. And I'm looking at the audience and there's like a couple hundred people in this audience and I'm looking at all these women's faces and multiple women have just like that look where I almost wanted to pause and be like,

• 48:00Speaker 03

  I see you.

• 48:02Alex Cooper?

  How many women in this room? How many? And I'm not kidding you Charlize, I literally think almost every fucking hand would have gone up. And it breaks my heart because I'm like, holy shit. This is happening as we're sitting here. Someone, some woman has experienced this in this feeling. And I agree with you. I think for me, I relate a lot to what you're saying of being someone that's so outspoken. I do think a lot of people are like, there, there's no way that would happen to you. There's no way. And it's like, oh no, the minute you're in that room, you're not yourself. You are the smallest version of yourself. You don't even remember who you are. And the minute you walk out the door, you kind of start

• 48:46Alex Cooper?

  to remember. And that's when the shame hits you because you're like, wait, how did I not just, I said it to my husband, less than a year ago, I had an executive say some of the most insane shit to me and I'm Alex Cooper, I'm me, I'm supposed, literally froze. Froze. So if it's happening to me now, and it happened to me back then when I didn't have a voice, there is no through line of this can't happen to her. It doesn't matter where the fuck you are on the totem pole of power and success as a woman.

• 49:19Alex Cooper?

  When those men get you in that position or there's a power imbalance, you're fucked.

• 49:22Speaker 03

  Or in your case, a woman. I actually, I think that story isn't told enough.

• 49:28Alex Cooper?

  Definitely not.

• 49:29Speaker 03

  So I'm really, I'm grateful and, and I really respect your choice in wanting to tell that story. Because I think, just as I feel like when I meet men who have experienced this kind of power play, I think that we need to tell these stories so that we can understand that we're not alone. Like, that's the thing, right? And it's hard to tell them in a world where people don't want to fucking believe you. It's really, really hard. It's not, doesn't make it easy for us. And when it starts to sound repetitious and it's like, oh, it's the same story again. It's like, yeah, but guess what? We're all made of the same fucking, we're human beings. And until you are in this fucking environment, don't tell me how you're going to behave.

• 50:12Speaker 03

  Because I will not let a motherfucker fuck with me any, any day of the week. Like, step up. But when somebody catches you off guard like that,

• 50:23Speaker 03

  you know, I don't like, want to get emotional about it, but I think it's the fact that it's in an instant, within seconds, somebody is telling you your value and they're telling you you're not really that valuable. Because guess what? I was never going to get apart that night. And I knew that as soon as I left. Like, when I was driving up Laurel Canyon, I knew I wasn't there because I had some value that I was going to bring to this man's movie.

• 50:50Speaker 03

  I was there for one thing. I was only valued for one thing. That was it.

• 50:55Speaker 03

  So when somebody does that to you, you will fucking freeze. No matter who you are, you will fucking freeze.

• 51:02Alex Cooper?

  And the conversation you also brought up of, why did it take you so long? Right? I had experienced some people being like, oh, 10 years? It took you 10 years?

• 51:15Speaker 03

  Now that you have this platform, now all of a sudden you want to talk about it.

• 51:18Alex Cooper?

  And it's like 10 years, yes, because like you just said, when you're driving up Laurel and you're leaving that moment.

• 51:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:26Alex Cooper?

  And how quickly you realize your worth and who you are, and then you're mad at yourself. It starts to almost seep into every single decision and interaction you go forward having in that industry, whether or in your relationships, whatever it seeps into. So yes, it took me that long because I had to repair what that person broke in me. And I had to find a way back and it still fucking hurts and I still feel uncomfortable and I still cry about it. I'm not, there's no closure, but there's a little bit of a semblance of healing. But yeah, it took 10 fucking years and sometimes people are going to live the rest of their lives and never get to feel any bit of healing. So like, there is no timeline.

• 52:08Speaker 03

  There's also the complication of, I feel when I watch your documentary, how much you love playing soccer. Someone's taking something away from you that you love so much. So there's that fear on top of it, right? Like I remember, I had this constant kind of worry for myself. Like I was like, if I don't make this work, like the alternative is just so fucking dark. Like I don't want to have this other life. And so that was like the added thing on top of it was like, they're fucking with something that you really love. So it makes it even harder. It makes it more complicated. That's their power.

• 52:45Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 52:45Speaker 03

  That's their power over you.

• 52:47Alex Cooper?

  That's the, why didn't you speak up? But, but most of these women are sitting there and like, this is my job.

• 52:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:52Alex Cooper?

  This is what I, it's so complicated. So I think the takeaway for any woman listening is also just like, we see you. There is no answer, but.

• 53:01Speaker 03

  And we're not sitting here saying because of our experiences, you should do this. You're probably not.

• 53:07Alex Cooper?

  And we understand.

• 53:08Speaker 03

  And we need to be a community that can support each other, that can stand together.

• 53:12Alex Cooper?

  Truly.

• 53:13Speaker 03

  And fuck those fuckers.

• 53:15Alex Cooper?

  Fuck those pieces of fucking shit.

• 53:17Speaker 03

  Fuck those fuckers.

• 53:18Alex Cooper?

  Motherfucking ass bitch, fuck you. Um, what have you learned? That's the beginning of your career. What have you then learned about your own strength through this crazy time in the industry that you've had?

• 53:32Speaker 03

  I feel fortunate that my

• 53:37Speaker 03

  and that I think I I don't mean this in like a feel sorry for me way, but I feel like I had a hard childhood. I think it set me up for an industry that's hard. I'm hoping that it can become less hard. I'm working, I'm trying to be part of solving the problem. But I think it was the thing that helped me. It kind of set me up in a way where I was so the fish out of water. Like, you don't understand, like, if you look at a map, that's where I was. This is like, it was so, I'd never been on a plane, like, I'd never left South Africa. It was so insane to be that kind of a fish out of water.

• 54:21Speaker 03

  But I, the core of my experience as a child and being a survivor really, really helped me. It just really helped me to kind of, I, I, and this is not, I'm not, I'm not prescribing this to anybody because I don't want this from my own daughters, but I could suck it up.

• 54:39Alex Cooper?

  In, though, coming from a situation where you weren't really privy to the information about Hollywood, you had a really rough childhood, then you get here, like, did you ever get to a point where you felt like you could lean in and be proud of your success? Or have you, or what is your relationship to success? Like, have you had like an I made it moment? You're like, this is fucking great.

• 55:05Speaker 03

  Got that $75,000. I was like, I'm done. Um, I have had many moments like that because I think I always, you know, I think what happens when you have, when you experience death at a young age, this is, I'm not speaking for everybody, but for me, it, um,

• 55:23Speaker 03

  It had, it made me hyper aware of time. And I also think that growing up in South Africa, at the time that I did when AIDS just ravaged my country in a way, it brought it to its knees. I, as a woman, you just couldn't help but feel like you were gonna die of AIDS. Like, that's just what it was like. Like, I had this constant fear every time I had sex with somebody. I was like, I'm, I have AIDS. Like, I would go and get tested. And so I had this constant feeling of time running out. So when good shit came my way, I really like, I felt it. But I also felt this thing kind of chasing me, like, time's gonna run out, time's gonna run out, time's gonna run out.

• 56:06Speaker 03

  Like, you gotta get it all in, you gotta pack it all in, you gotta get it done, which is a horrible way to go through your twenties. So I have had this, this, I've had great success and I've had a, a ton of great opportunities come my way. I've always said this, I really believe this. It is not just about talent. There are people out there that I know that are way surpassed my, my talent, that will never have the opportunities that I had to showcase them. These are all things that I'm so aware of. So I try to, it's gotten better now that I'm older, for sure. Like, I can definitely, like, sit in a moment.

• 56:50Speaker 03

  I don't feel like I have to make a movie every five seconds. I feel like I have other things that are more, that I kind of gauge my success at. It's not just work-related. But I also, listen, after you win an Oscar, there's a part of you that can go,

• 57:09Speaker 03

  oh shit, like, what do I do now? Like, how do I, what do you, what am I stepping up to now? Like, everything's gonna be shit after this. And then after you realize, like, yeah, it's probably gonna be shit, you just go like, oh, the fuck that then? Then I'm just gonna fucking make movies that I wanna make. Like, I got an Oscar, bitch. Like, I got nothing else to prove, so let me just fucking make shit that I wanna make.

• 57:30Alex Cooper?

  So fucking nice.

• 57:31Speaker 03

  It's great, it's very freeing.

• 57:34Alex Cooper?

  Something I think a lot of people obviously respect you for is the way that you have transformed yourself for so many roles. Like you've gone bald, you've gained 50 pounds, like you've, gone bald, sounds like-

• 57:49Speaker 03

  I was like, that was a shaved head bitch, like we don't have to go that far.

• 57:55Alex Cooper?

  You've gone bald. You know what I mean? Well, you were bald. You shaved your head.

• 58:01Speaker 03

  There's a buzz and there's bald, like let's just-

• 58:03Alex Cooper?

  You've gone bald. You're like, I buzzed my hair. But you know what I mean? Like you've really taken things to the extreme. How, when you were doing those things within your career, did it affect your confidence or did it not?

• 58:16Speaker 03

  No, I found it very freeing. I think that there's, it's much easier for me to kind of lose myself, uh, when I'm working to really kind of be a good actor. Like I, if I look in the mirror and I see Charlize, I'm like, oh, like this is just all feeling, like now I'm just feeling like I'm being like a fake version of myself. I don't know. There's something for me, maybe it's because I come from the world of dance. There is a real appreciation for costume and music and like the, this kind of vibe that you have to set to this world that you're creating. And I don't know how to work without that. Like I am always in awe of actors who can just,

• 59:00Speaker 03

  you know, Philip Seymour Hoffman, just be Philip Seymour Hoffman and be fucking amazing in every movie, but that's not who I am. Like I really rely on finding a character from the outside in almost sometimes.

• 59:13Alex Cooper?

  Let's talk about your dating life.

• 59:14Speaker 03

  Oh, here we go.

• 59:15Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 59:18Alex Cooper?

  Hard pivot. Let's swerve. Um, okay.

• 59:21Speaker 03

  So when you were bald.

• 59:22Alex Cooper?

  So when you, I literally was about to say, so now that you're not bald anymore. Um, okay. So obviously you, we spoke about it earlier. You've been outspoken about never wanting to probably get married.

• 59:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:33Alex Cooper?

  And once you kind of- Accepted that, like, how has that impacted your dating life, knowing that you're not looking for marriage, like with men? And how has it affected them with you?

• 59:47Speaker 03

  Well, I think there's a miss, like, okay, let me just be clear. Marriage is a long-term commitment. And I think I want long-term commitment. I just don't need to get married. So, so I just want to clarify that. I

• 1:00:06Speaker 03

  I will tell you in all honesty, and the work that I've done on myself, I think a lot of that also has to do with the fact that I have a tremendous fear of not being able to get out of something. And that's, again, me just understanding me, right? And, you know, now, obviously, by California laws, after seven years, you're in a fucking marriage, whether you walk down the aisle and sign the piece of paper, like, you're, it's 50/50, bitch. Like, like, let's just be clear. So I'm like, my semantics is like crazy, but I want, if I, if I were to find a relationship, I would think of it as something that I'm aiming for for long term. I've never been somebody that really wants to like, jump from one thing

• 1:00:51Speaker 03

  to another. From the time that I was in relationships, I was in one relationship after another relationship after another relationship. And so when I earlier said I'm having sex now for the first time, like I never had before, is because I'm not in relationships. And it's not because I'm not, I don't want to be in relationships, but I'm seeing things for what they are, right? I'm not trying to force a circle into a square or whatever the fucking American saying is, the peg and the hole and the, I can never say it right. But

• 1:01:19Alex Cooper?

  I think that was right.

• 1:01:21Speaker 03

  No, it's a, but I, when I meet somebody, I can, I can see where it's gonna go, pretty quickly.

• 1:01:28Alex Cooper?

  What is relationship you like verse single you?

• 1:01:32Speaker 03

  So this is what we were talking about earlier. Like, I am ashamed of being a person in a relation, or that I used to be, I should speak now. I've done a lot of work, but I used to be someone in relationships that would lose herself. And again, it's that thing, you like, you're such a fucking power bitch, like you're a baller. Like, why? That couldn't be you. But it goes back to how I looked at girls who were so. I've never really had a lot of practice in just being confident and like saying I've, I've always felt like I've had to like protect other people so much that that's,

• 1:02:10Speaker 03

  that codependency has just remained in my relationships. So I used to be a person that would watch herself, would also attract narcissists, men who wanted me to kind of treat them that way. And if I didn't, there was a lot of conflict and I actually don't like conflict. Yet again, something people are always surprised. I don't like conflict, but when I feel like I'm being,

• 1:02:39Speaker 03

  if I feel like I have to choose between conflict or just placating, then I will placate. Because I don't want the conflict.

• 1:02:46Alex Cooper?

  But when you're in those type of relationships that you've lost yourself, how have you pulled yourself out?

• 1:02:52Speaker 03

  Friends.

• 1:02:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. Great friends. Like, and now I'm gonna cry. Just great girlfriends.

• 1:03:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, cuz I think sometimes you can't see when you're in it.

• 1:03:07Alex Cooper?

  At all.

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  And you need a friend that doesn't hit you over the head because you won't leave until you can see it for yourself. And a good girlfriend knows that. And so they support you while you're in the darkness, because that's all you have. Like, you need that support. And I've had, I've put some girlfriends through fucking hell. So, yeah, I love that the show's for women. Fucking. Girlfriends. You need good girlfriends.

• 1:03:37Alex Cooper?

  But I think that the biggest also point that I want to highlight that you just said is like, there's a difference between being a really good girlfriend and then when someone's in a really unhealthy relationship, making them feel shame about it and being like, we can't fucking do this again. We can't, what are you doing?

• 1:03:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:54Alex Cooper?

  You then pull away and if anything, you lean more towards the person you're in the relationship with. And we've all been there. If you have one of those great friends and I've had it with my friend where I was in a horrible situation and then when you give them a light opening, because you're really looking for them to pull you out. And they're like, okay, let's just, let's talk about it.

• 1:04:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:15Alex Cooper?

  Like, and then they slowly pull you and then you're out, but it takes you opening even like a crack in the door.

• 1:04:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:21Alex Cooper?

  Because if you don't want to hear it, it's like the same thing like we were saying earlier with therapy. You can't fucking force someone to go to therapy. They're going to sit there with their,

• 1:04:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:28Alex Cooper?

  You're there like, I'm not going to listen to you. They have to be ready. And the only way they're going to come to you though, as a friend, is if you've been there with them. And I know it's hard as a friend, but there's always.

• 1:04:39Speaker 03

  So hard. That's the thing I think that makes me emotional because it's the patience. And it must, it's so hard when someone you love so much is just constantly hitting their head on the same wall. And all you want to do is to remove them from the situation. And you know that you can't and you have to like walk this fine line. Those, those.

• 1:05:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. I, I have, I don't know what I did in a past life. I really do not what I did in a past life, but I.

• 1:05:13Speaker 03

  Fuck me. I have been blessed with really, really good people in my life.

• 1:05:18Alex Cooper?

  That's half the battle.

• 1:05:20Speaker 03

  I'm a lucky bitch.

• 1:05:38Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Airbnb. So the other day I was just scrolling on my phone and one of those one year ago today notifications popped up. I usually don't pay much attention to them, but when I saw it was from my Napa trip with Lauren. I obviously had to go back through every single photo. I remember we drove up to Napa for a weekend and found the cutest farmhouse on Airbnb to stay in. The location could not have been more perfect. It was right by a vineyard and overlooked this beautiful golf course, which yes, Matt was very jealous of. During

• 1:06:18Alex Cooper?

  the day, we went wine tasting like a little cute couple. Then we brought our favorite bottles back to the house at night for cozy, long girl talks on the couch. Obviously, I haven't had a drink in forever since being pregnant, so I cannot wait for wine nights again soon with my girlfriends. And now that holiday travel season is finally here, all of my group chats are going off with everyone trying to coordinate dates and just figure out where we're going to stay and where we're going to go next. But looking back through those photos reminded me that some of the best parts of a trip happen back at the house, right? Like, that's why I love booking a home on Airbnb. It literally gives

• 1:07:01Alex Cooper?

  everyone space to just spread out and it makes every trip feel more relaxed. You can even order groceries, which I love, for your trip through Airbnb and have everything from breakfast essentials to holiday snacks delivered after you arrive. If you're planning your Thanksgiving trip or any holiday travel this season, definitely check out Airbnb before you book. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Ross. Fall is about finding pieces you love, making them your own and creating looks and spaces just right for the season. Whether you're updating a small apartment or a spacious home, drawn to timeless neutrals, or bold seasonal touches, Ross makes it easy to imagine what's next and bring your fall vision to

• 1:07:45Alex Cooper?

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• 1:08:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:06Alex Cooper?

  How are we, how are we meeting these men? Are they men in the industry? Do you not want a man in the industry?

• 1:08:12Speaker 03

  No, I don't want, no, my God, no, no, no. I have zero interest. And again, like I say these things, you know, in a very glib way, but I, I, I don't think that dating somebody in my industry is a smart thing.

• 1:08:26Alex Cooper?

  I agree.

• 1:08:27Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's not, it's everything I have to, I, and I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm not saying that is that binary. I just think that in general, it's not a good thing for me.

• 1:08:39Alex Cooper?

  So how are you meeting these people? Are you on the apps? Are you out dating or your friends?

• 1:08:43Speaker 03

  I am on the apps, but I don't use the apps. I am.

• 1:08:46Alex Cooper?

  I love that. So.

• 1:08:47Speaker 03

  I have a few friends that are very, very good. And one of them I know is listening to this right now, who, who always is like, okay, you need to come here right now and you need to meet this person. And I'm very grateful for her and you know who you are. And I, I have not taken, I have not been brave enough on a lot of her offers, but recently I have. And I, it has paid off tremendously. And so, yes, my dear friend Amanda out there, when she says like, you need to just, we'd be in fucking Paris, be like, you just need to fucking like, come and say hi to this guy right now.

• 1:09:23Alex Cooper?

  So fun.

• 1:09:24Speaker 03

  And yeah, and then it totally pays off. And I'm like, yeah, I need to do that more often, honestly, because the apps are just horrible.

• 1:09:30Alex Cooper?

  Oh, it's hard.

• 1:09:31Speaker 03

  No, it's not hard. It's a fucking, it's a clown show. I'm sorry, guys, but please, like, no, no. Like I need, like honestly, not because I want to date you, but because I want to help you. No Burning Man photos, no photos of you with other women. Like, I don't care. I don't want to know that you have girlfriends and I don't want you shooting a fucking selfie in your closet of your hand in a jean pocket. I don't, I'm sorry, I don't want to see you looking at yourself in a mirror that way. It makes my vagina close. I just can't. And don't tell me you're a CEO because you're not, like, I'm sorry. Of what?

• 1:10:13Speaker 03

  Of some business you can't explain to me that I'm none of my friends can understand? Like, no. And then, no, you don't live in this apartment if you're, no, you do not have a business. Stop. You're a fucking joke. You know, I get like, I get wet when you just tell me who you are. Like, don't be pretentious. I'm sorry.

• 1:10:34Alex Cooper?

  Picturing you on the fucking apps with your girlfriends over like wine one night being like, let's just open this shit up.

• 1:10:41Speaker 03

  Well, by the way, that's how it started. I was like drunk enough to have a girlfriend be like, let's just fucking do it. I was like, yeah. Let's do it. And that's how I ended up on this fucking app. Listen, I could take myself off the app, but I make secretly fucking enjoying the joke.

• 1:10:57Alex Cooper?

  It's great.

• 1:10:58Speaker 03

  It's the joke. I'm sorry. I'm not, I'm not trying to be mean.

• 1:11:02Alex Cooper?

  No, it's okay.

• 1:11:02Speaker 03

  I'm not trying to be mean, but like, I'm trying to like, help.

• 1:11:07Speaker 03

  This is like, think of this as like, help. As I'm a 50 ass year old woman telling you, don't do it, girls. Don't like it. They don't fucking like it.

• 1:11:16Alex Cooper?

  It's so true.

• 1:11:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:18Alex Cooper?

  The hand in the jean in the closet.

• 1:11:24Speaker 03

  I just can't. I just can't. I'm sorry.

• 1:11:26Alex Cooper?

  The CEO is also crazy. I mean, he works for his dad.

• 1:11:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:31Alex Cooper?

  He works for his dad. Um, okay. How do we feel about sex on the first date?

• 1:11:36Speaker 03

  Well, so I like, what do you concern, what do you consider a date?

• 1:11:40Alex Cooper?

  Oh, are you going on dates?

• 1:11:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I like, I feel like when you like, there's certain circumstances where you meet somebody at a party and the, yeah, you have sex and then that's it. You know, that's what it is. You're not thinking you're gonna marry this person.

• 1:11:56Alex Cooper?

  That's fair.

• 1:11:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:57Alex Cooper?

  Are you down for a one night stand?

• 1:11:58Speaker 03

  Yes. I don't have many of them. I sound, I'm sitting here sounding like I do. So when I do, I'm like, oh, fuck yeah. I should have done this in my twenties. I was married from the time that I was like, having sex to the time that I had my last relationship. Then I had children. Who has fucking time for dates and shaving and waxing and makeup? And like, I've got two children that have to go to school. Then I like, I got it. Like this shit's on a time. Like, we got, do you need me to send you a call time?

• 1:12:28Alex Cooper?

  I'm obsessed.

• 1:12:28Speaker 03

  And it's this, you've got two hours. Like, what's happening? Cause like, I need to know.

• 1:12:33Alex Cooper?

  Wait, have, do you have any?

• 1:12:37Alex Cooper?

  Sex tip for the girls.

• 1:12:38Speaker 03

  Sex tip, like, what does that mean? Like, what does that mean? Like, how to have good sex? How to what? Have an orgasm?

• 1:12:45Alex Cooper?

  Anything, anything that like you think a girl could just like, you're hot, you're having good sex?

• 1:12:52Speaker 03

  Okay, you're like, I almost choked.

• 1:12:56Speaker 03

  I am the last person to ask. I'm like, sounding very cocky here, but I think it's because I have found this freedom in my 40s, where I'm like, oh, my God, so I just want to say this in perspective. I've probably had three one night stands in my entire life.

• 1:13:09Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:13:10Speaker 03

  But I did just recently fuck a 26 year old and it was really fucking amazing.

• 1:13:15Alex Cooper?

  Fuck, yes.

• 1:13:16Speaker 03

  And I've never done that. And I was like, oh, this is great. Okay.

• 1:13:20Alex Cooper?

  Let me just say, that 26 year old is the luckiest fucking man walking on this goddamn planet. He's walking different today, knowing, oh, my God.

• 1:13:29Speaker 03

  He for sure is not, but thank you.

• 1:13:31Alex Cooper?

  No, he is, he is.

• 1:13:33Speaker 03

  I will just say this, like, I wish that, this goes back to, I think this is kind of like a thread throughout our conversation. Women who come across as confident, women who come across as like outspoken, ones that wouldn't speak up for themselves, tend to also be in bed, people who want to please males. Like, and I have found this in my experiences with talking to other women about this. Isn't it strange? Like, we should be the ones that are like, fuck you. Like, I'm gonna have an orgasm. And yet, I, my whole life was so concerned about.

• 1:14:10Alex Cooper?

  Same.

• 1:14:10Speaker 03

  The same?

• 1:14:11Alex Cooper?

  Same.

• 1:14:12Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:14:12Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:14:13Speaker 03

  So my advice would be this, don't fucking do that. For two reasons, you're gonna have better orgasms and guess what? Your, your man's gonna like that.

• 1:14:22Alex Cooper?

  They're gonna have such a better time, too.

• 1:14:24Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:14:24Alex Cooper?

  It's so true. It's really hard, I think back to my 20s and I, and in college, like, I was so thinking I was doing the right thing. And when you get the feedback of how great it was, and then you're walking away feeling great, but then you're also like, I don't know if I've even had an orgasm in my life before. Like, this is kind of, is this what it's supposed to do and be and what? And then the minute, and, and it takes reps, like, sometimes it just takes you like. Getting, because no man is like, unless he's the most amazing man in the world, which go find him, but no.

• 1:14:56Speaker 03

  Not gonna happen.

• 1:14:57Alex Cooper?

  It's all, all of these men, it's about them and they're not actually being like, I know it takes you longer than my fucking dick just getting off in two seconds. So it's like, it's a process to you advocating for yourself in the bedroom, being like,

• 1:15:10Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:15:10Alex Cooper?

  Hold on and actually then speaking up, but it takes time. But I agree. Once you hit that part of your life where it's not just like, oh, I'll just like do it. And then like he'll get off and like, I'm like faking it.

• 1:15:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:21Alex Cooper?

  Your life changes.

• 1:15:22Speaker 03

  And practice helps. You just have to practice and then you'll figure it out. Yeah.

• 1:15:27Alex Cooper?

  That's good advice, see?

• 1:15:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. In the safe way, please.

• 1:15:30Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, please. Please with the love of God. Okay. What is the biggest dating disaster you've ever had?

• 1:15:36Speaker 03

  Oh my God. I, I, I had a guy once asked me to make out with his nose, which was really, really probably one of the most bizarre asks ever. Yes. And a very like, like he was getting off on it. Um, that was really gross. Um, I would say aside from that, nobody's ever asked me to do something that I was like, whoa, that's really fucking weird. Like, I guess I'm, I like weird shit. Like I'm not like thrown by weird shit. Like the nose thing was the weirdest thing.

• 1:16:06Alex Cooper?

  That, that'll do it.

• 1:16:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. But I'm not like thrown easily. So that's why I think I'm kind of like, I'm like, oh, this sounds awful. Let's see what happens.

• 1:16:14Alex Cooper?

  Let's give it a try.

• 1:16:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:15Alex Cooper?

  Okay. We're going to play a game.

• 1:16:16Speaker 03

  I'm having the best.

• 1:16:17Alex Cooper?

  Okay, you are.

• 1:16:17Speaker 03

  We are crying and we are laughing and we are.

• 1:16:20Alex Cooper?

  I'm not, never gonna get over the bald comment. That, jail for me. Okay. All right. I'm going to go through some dating scenarios and I want your opinion. Are you in or are you out?

• 1:16:33Speaker 03

  Wow. Okay.

• 1:16:34Alex Cooper?

  Okay. He tells you he loves you after one month.

• 1:16:37Speaker 03

  That's usually what I would do.

• 1:16:42Speaker 03

  That's like a Charlize move. Oh my God. This is like a constant joke between me and my friends. This is how unhealthy I am. Like I just will tell you I love you in a heartbeat. Like I've never understood this conversation. It's like, have you ever had been in love? I'm like, motherfucker, I'm in love all the time. Like I, like, I, like, while I'm fucking you, I'll tell you I love you. Like, and for a long time I was like, this is not healthy. And then I just went, you know, this is who I am. Like honestly, like I'm not going to beat myself up over this anymore. So. I'm gonna say that's okay. I don't know if I want to hear it from a guy, though.

• 1:17:16Alex Cooper?

  Fair. So fair.

• 1:17:17Speaker 03

  I feel like, again, it's like the photo, the selfie, like, no.

• 1:17:21Alex Cooper?

  Like, calm down.

• 1:17:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, let me be the one that's like, I think I love you.

• 1:17:24Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:25Alex Cooper?

  And make me chase you just a little bit.

• 1:17:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:28Alex Cooper?

  Like, God, don't be so easy.

• 1:17:28Speaker 03

  Can you believe it? I'm in love with you.

• 1:17:33Alex Cooper?

  Then you're literally at home being like, oh, my God, I can't believe he believes that. Anyways.

• 1:17:37Speaker 03

  But maybe I am.

• 1:17:39Alex Cooper?

  How quickly do you actually think you know if you're in love with someone?

• 1:17:41Speaker 03

  I, in all seriousness, I feel like I have the ability to go there pretty easily. For someone who is as like, have been, been so, I think maybe it is because I've been so protective of my life and have to protect so many things in my life, that there is, and it's maybe why acting is, feels safe to me. I have the ability to kind of like go into that, kind of like reckless, vulnerable place.

• 1:18:11Alex Cooper?

  Beautiful.

• 1:18:11Speaker 03

  Easily, yes.

• 1:18:12Alex Cooper?

  Have you ever had a guy tell you that he loved you and you were not on the same page?

• 1:18:17Speaker 03

  Yes. Yes.

• 1:18:19Alex Cooper?

  It's tough.

• 1:18:19Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:18:20Alex Cooper?

  And you just let them down easy, or?

• 1:18:22Speaker 03

  I am gonna be honest with you. I'm not good at letting people off the hook easily.

• 1:18:27Alex Cooper?

  Do you say it back?

• 1:18:28Speaker 03

  No, I don't say it back, but I don't know how to, like, I will pretend and then I'll probably ghost. Like, I'm not, I know it's really terrible and I have to work on that.

• 1:18:39Alex Cooper?

  I love it.

• 1:18:40Speaker 03

  But after that, I just don't know, like, it's, it's, part of me is like, I don't have, I don't know. I like, it's a lot of time to get into like the softness of all of this. And sometimes I just think it's easier to just be like, let's just not.

• 1:18:52Alex Cooper?

  Let's just not.

• 1:18:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:53Alex Cooper?

  Let's not, because I don't love you.

• 1:18:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:55Alex Cooper?

  And it's easy for me to tell people I love them, so if I can't say it back, you're really a fucking loser.

• 1:19:00Speaker 03

  There's a big problem here. Like, it's not gonna happen.

• 1:19:03Alex Cooper?

  Holy shit. Okay, you caught him going through your phone.

• 1:19:06Speaker 03

  No, I don't like stuff like that.

• 1:19:08Alex Cooper?

  Mm-mm. Have you ever caught someone?

• 1:19:10Speaker 03

  Listen, I, when most of my dating and serious relationships happened, there were no iPhones.

• 1:19:18Alex Cooper?

  He's like, no iPhone gang over here.

• 1:19:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, we didn't have that problem. We didn't have, I, I mean, like, isn't that? Yeah, but I don't like stuff like that. Even my kids, like, my kids find it really hard that I'm like, I don't want to go through your phone. I want to be able to trust you.

• 1:19:32Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:33Alex Cooper?

  Have you ever been cheated on?

• 1:19:35Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:19:36Alex Cooper?

  How did you find out?

• 1:19:37Speaker 03

  I found out after, not while I was in the relationship, but I always felt it. Like, you know, again, it's that little voice. Yeah, but it's actually, it wasn't worse for me because part of me was like, that wasn't the reason why I broke up with the person. And also, I don't think I was with like, I don't think it was constant all the way through. I think it was like, towards the end, or it was like, somebody thought like a blowjob wasn't cheating, like shit like that, you know? But I-

• 1:20:06Alex Cooper?

  Classic, them not thinking a blowjob is cheating. Just the classic white stuff of men. Like, that doesn't count. Oh, yeah, no, you getting your dick sucked did not count, for sure.

• 1:20:16Speaker 03

  No, not at all.

• 1:20:16Alex Cooper?

  Totally fine. You're good. We, did you ever confront him about it, or no, you just let it go?

• 1:20:21Speaker 03

  No, because most of the time I found out afterwards. And then by then I was like, I like, couldn't give two fucks.

• 1:20:27Alex Cooper?

  Okay, he hates cursing and asks you to stop saying fuck.

• 1:20:32Speaker 03

  Impossible. Absolutely. If I, if I can't do that in front of my children, do you really think I'm going to do that for you? Go fuck yourself. And I don't even love you here. Like, this is like, before I've even told you I love you. So, yeah.

• 1:20:44Alex Cooper?

  True. Okay, what is something you'll never compromise on in a relationship?

• 1:20:49Speaker 03

  Now?

• 1:20:50Alex Cooper?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:51Speaker 03

  I will, I, I think you know, I've talked about it. I will not lose myself. I will not make myself smaller, and I will not do things that are not authentically, it doesn't mean that I'm going to be selfish, but I, I will not make myself somebody that I'm not for you, for you to feel better about being in a relationship with me.

• 1:21:10Alex Cooper?

  I fucking love it.

• 1:21:11Speaker 03

  Oh, thanks.

• 1:21:12Alex Cooper?

  No, no, no, cuz it's like you being aware that that's your one thing. We all have that, right? Like, I had that for so long where it was like I you. Everyone knows that one thing that you're like, okay, this next time I've gotta stand my ground and I can't let myself do X, Y, or Z. And I think that and it's like for me, mine was like, I really loved the games. Like, I was like addicted to like the push and the pull and the pu-

• 1:21:37Speaker 03

  The drama, you wanted the drama.

• 1:21:39Alex Cooper?

  And I'm like, what am I doing? I'm I'm exhausted. And like, I want to feel safe. So why am I doing this? And finally-

• 1:21:45Speaker 03

  Why, why?

• 1:21:47Alex Cooper?

  We're still working on that. I I still don't fully know why I was doing that.

• 1:21:50Speaker 03

  Do you still do it?

• 1:21:51Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 1:21:51Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:21:51Alex Cooper?

  I am so happy where-

• 1:21:53Speaker 03

  You're aware of it now.

• 1:21:54Alex Cooper?

  Matt was the first person that literally it was like a couple, like a month or so in and he was like, I don't know what you're doing, but I have literally no interest in it. So let me know if you want to continue or I'm done. And I was literally like, I'm in love with you.

• 1:22:09Speaker 03

  But you obviously didn't stop it straight away.

• 1:22:11Alex Cooper?

  No, it just it took. It was a concerted effort for me to recognize like I had become used to a pattern.

• 1:22:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:16Alex Cooper?

  And it became familiar to me. And then you jump right into it into the next thing. And a lot of it made me feel like if we fight, then when we come back together, we feel closer. And it was a bad cycle I got into. And then Matt was the first person that I broke that cycle for. And it was like, I made such different life decisions with him that I was like, wow, I must really love you that I'm trying this hard to like not be-

• 1:22:38Speaker 03

  That's amazing.

• 1:22:39Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. So, you know, we all have our thing.

• 1:22:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:42Alex Cooper?

  Um, okay.

• 1:22:43Speaker 03

  So you told him right there you loved him?

• 1:22:45Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, then I was like, let me take my pants off, fuck me, and I love you, all in one night. Let's go.

• 1:22:51Speaker 03

  No games here.

• 1:22:51Alex Cooper?

  He's like, this bitch is crazy.

• 1:22:52Speaker 03

  You're like, you want no games?

• 1:22:53Alex Cooper?

  No, literally, let's go.

• 1:22:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:56Alex Cooper?

  But actually, that is something-

• 1:22:57Speaker 03

  We're getting married.

• 1:22:58Alex Cooper?

  Tonight, let's go to Vegas. He's like, you're insane.

• 1:23:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:02Alex Cooper?

  Um, okay, let's talk about your new movie, The Old Guard Two.

• 1:23:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:06Alex Cooper?

  What does it feel like playing this character again? Like, are is it exciting to get to do something a second time?

• 1:23:12Speaker 03

  Yes, it's challenging, but also exci- yes, it's exciting because I've never-

• 1:23:19Speaker 03

  I've been wanting to do television for a while or like a limited series because I I've never experienced having several hours to kind of build arc and explore a character. And so like my twenties, it's always felt like pack it in two hours or under two. And so this was nice because it gave me an opportunity to kind of like go and revisit a a character that I had played before and I'd never done that before. But it also makes it challenging because then you're like, well, am I? What do I want to go and explore? Like, what what are what are the themes that I or the? The behaviors that I didn't feel like I fully fleshed out on the first one? So then it becomes complicated in that sense, but good complicated.

• 1:24:04Alex Cooper?

  Okay, you're hanging out of a helicopter in the movie.

• 1:24:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:07Alex Cooper?

  How do you even train for something like that?

• 1:24:10Speaker 03

  You don't, there's no training for that. I wanted to do something. I'm actually, I I don't like risk. I like challenging myself, but I'm actually not like some like I have kids like I and even prior to that, I'm not like someone's like, I don't give a fuck.

• 1:24:28Speaker 03

  Let's just jump off this roof and see what happens in the water. And I'm not one of those people, but I do like the challenge of being a producer and being able to have some power over talking about that developmental part of what is the narrative and the action? Because that's where you can start to challenge yourself a little bit. And if you're making, if you're making these movies, you should be asking those questions.

• 1:24:54Alex Cooper?

  Right. What is the most insane stunt that you've ever done in your career?

• 1:24:59Speaker 03

  Well, that would probably be one of them.

• 1:25:01Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:01Speaker 03

  But, you know, if you hear the story behind it, it's it's not as crazy, it looks insane, that's why we did it. But but it was explained to me by this incredible man, Fred North, who is like the guru of all helicopter stuff in movies. It's completely, he's like, this is really safe. No one's ever really done this and you can do this completely practical. And that's really what I was looking for was to do something that we didn't have to go on a stage and fake. And, you know, that I could have some cred and have a behind the scenes video that looked really fucking badass. And I could be like, yeah, and that's me right there.

• 1:25:39Speaker 03

  But yeah, so that's probably the craziest things. But I've done hard. I mean, I just had elbow surgery four weeks ago. I did this movie in Australia. I just wrapped it like a couple of months ago. I play like a really a professional rock climber, like a like a free soloist, kind of like rock climber. And I worked with a mad director from like Iceland who just like was like, you have to climb the mountain. And I was like, holy fuck, like, he's gonna actually make me climb this fucking mountain. He's like, for the next three weeks, we are only shooting this mountain and you are climbing this mountain.

• 1:26:20Speaker 03

  And I fucking climbed that mountain barefoot, like no shoes, like I it was insane. I look at the footage now, like I go back to the dailies and I go, what the fuck? But it's amazing. It's like you're in it and you're just gonna go like, wow, it feels good to feel this strong that I can do this.

• 1:26:37Alex Cooper?

  That it picturing you barefoot, climbing up and just being like,

• 1:26:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, and they were like, they were making these silicone feet for me to protect my feet and stuff. And I was like, I'm from Africa. Okay, I didn't have shoes until I was 13. Like, I climbed trees. I don't have, and I was a dancer. I have no fucking feeling in my feet. Okay?

• 1:26:57Alex Cooper?

  Put me in.

• 1:26:57Speaker 03

  Yes, I'm gonna be fine, you guys.

• 1:27:00Alex Cooper?

  She's perfect for this role. Thank God we got her here. Holy shit, this is amazing.

• 1:27:04Speaker 03

  At the end, this mad man of a director who's fucking brilliant and I love him. He like, he never gave me one compliment. It was like my dad relationship all over again. I was trying to please this motherfucker every single day. I'd like be on the top of the mountain. I'd be like, my elbow, I couldn't feel my fucking toe was broken, my ribs were, and he'd be like, walking away. And I'd be like, what did he think? He's like, oh, he went home. And at the end of the film, he like pulled me and he was like, you are fucking amazing. And I was like, all right, I I deserve that. Yeah.

• 1:27:39Alex Cooper?

  I got it. I got it. Yeah. I got the approval. Thank God. We did your daughters go to the premiere last night?

• 1:27:45Speaker 03

  They did. They my my youngest likes to kind of like just ride along with me. I was the movie isn't right for her. She's she's too young. There's too much violence in it, but she walked with me because she knew I was gonna go home afterwards. So she just walked. She didn't just waited for me and I said a little thank you in the in the theater and then we went home and and I was like, she was like, why don't we? I said, no, no, no, I'm so tired. Like, we're gonna go home, we're gonna have a girls' night, and we're gonna have ice cream. And we got like the ice cream out of the freezer and I had like a half a pound of ice cream. And then I fell asleep, like like an old man, literally. Like, she was like, really? This is our date? Like,

• 1:28:21Alex Cooper?

  This is your premiere night?

• 1:28:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:23Alex Cooper?

  I wish that was the headline. Like, you're in this gorgeous outfit and then you get home. Little does everyone know, you're like, I'm on the couch with my ice cream.

• 1:28:30Speaker 03

  Like, I was shoving a having a hagen dust. And I was like, I should walk this down to the freezer because it's gonna melt. And I was like, fuck that. I'm rich. It's fine. It's a half a pound of fucking hagen dust. Like, what am I worried about?

• 1:28:42Alex Cooper?

  So good. Do your daughters understand like who you are and what you do fully?

• 1:28:49Speaker 03

  Honestly, I couldn't tell you. You know, I feel like maybe I think that they're also, they've been they've been around it. I've I've most of the movies that I've made since they've been around have been during the summer because I don't want to leave them. So they've been on every set that I've worked on from the time that they've been in my life. So they know that is mom's job. They obviously don't, you know, they they don't watch the kind of movies that I make. So in their eyes, I'm like some dinosaur, right? And so like every once in a while, when I work with somebody, they're like, wait, you know her? Like, oh, Renee Rapp's coming on Saturday. Like, what? Like, every once in a while, I'm like, yeah, motherfuckers, like,

• 1:29:33Alex Cooper?

  I'm cool.

• 1:29:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I last I was just driving here and my oldest daughter, who's a real bitch, like, she does not make it easy on me one bit. Like, she does not suffer fools easily. She has never given me a compliment in my fucking life. I was driving here, she was at a sleepover and I called her to tell her that, you know, her sister was coming over and she goes, "Oh, I really liked what you wore last night. I almost fell off my chair." I, the phone fell out of my, I was like, "Oh, oh, oh my God, oh my God." Like, be cool, be cool, be cool.

• 1:30:10Alex Cooper?

  You're like, "Thanks."

• 1:30:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, so they, they play with my emotions, I think.

• 1:30:14Alex Cooper?

  It's really cute.

• 1:30:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:16Alex Cooper?

  It sounds like you are such an incredible mother, you're a great daughter, and you've had such an incredible career and you will continue to have such an incredible career. And like, this is why I love my job is getting to meet you. I had no idea what to expect, you know what I mean? Like, I didn't know, like, I didn't know-

• 1:30:33Speaker 03

  Feeling this fucking woman that can't keep a man, like, this nutty bitch. Let's see how this-

• 1:30:39Alex Cooper?

  She's bald.

• 1:30:39Speaker 03

  Now I understand.

• 1:30:42Alex Cooper?

  But I didn't know, you know? And I think, not that it was bad or good, I was just like, "Oh, I'm excited to meet you."

• 1:30:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:48Alex Cooper?

  And in getting to speak with you, it's so inspiring hearing what you've done with your career, what you've done with your family. I think it's such a testament to women and it's really, I hope, a message to women of like, you really can create your own path. Your past doesn't define you, but be aware of your childhood and any trauma you've had. And, and you've done such an incredible job, like, making your own version of what you want your life to be, which is so inspiring for women to hear.

• 1:31:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, and we're, I'm still trying.

• 1:31:20Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 1:31:21Speaker 03

  Still figuring it out.

• 1:31:22Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 1:31:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, but we should definitely try, for sure. Life is too short.

• 1:31:26Alex Cooper?

  As you enter this next gorgeous decade of your life, what are you the most excited for?

• 1:31:35Speaker 03

  I, okay, so everyone's like talking about the celebration. You're the first person that's ever asked me, like, what is this next chapter in my life, right? I think outside of what I touched upon, which is that I do think about, like, because it's very real. My oldest is about to be 14, like, I will be an empty nester soon. I think about that a lot because I love my fucking kids so much. That they can never know cuz I can't imagine my life without them and the idea of them not being in my fucking house like scares me enough to be like who is this sad man that I am gonna fucking catch in six years and be like you can have my whole closet just don't let me be alone

• 1:32:14Speaker 03

  in this house. So real aside from thinking about that I don't know because work feels really satisfying. I really feel so blessed and so lucky that I get to do something every single day that I love that doesn't it doesn't feel like work and I'm glad that I get to show my kids what that looks like to find something that you love that it does when if you can have a life where you don't feel like you're working but you are working hard that's a very rewarding life and not all of us get to have that so if I can continue that um and and and make sure that my kids are okay like that's gonna be okay for me I'm gonna be okay.

• 1:32:54Alex Cooper?

  This is good to know. So whenever we see you pop up with a man, we're like, oh, the kids moved out. It's literally our problem.

• 1:33:01Speaker 03

  She must be 18.

• 1:33:02Alex Cooper?

  Oh shit. Oh shit. She's miserable because the kids are gone. This is just the fucker that happened to be at the coffee shop earlier that day that she's like, you're moving in with me, motherfucker. And he's like, shit, I get to be with Charlize Theron.

• 1:33:14Speaker 03

  My secret's out. I just fucked myself. Yeah, well, there goes my vagina's joy. Like, that's not happening anymore. Thank you, Alex. Really great. No, I will tell this man I love him before I know his name. I will hook him so fast.

• 1:33:30Alex Cooper?

  And you'll hook him up. Good closet, nice life. We're doing it right.

• 1:33:34Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly.

• 1:33:35Alex Cooper?

  Thank you so much for coming on. This was truly a pleasure. You're such a good hang and it felt like I don't I forgot there were cameras like it just felt like we were having really nice girl talks.

• 1:33:46Speaker 03

  I was looking forward to this cuz it's nice to to know you like I feel not in a weird way. I'm not gonna tell you I love you.

• 1:33:53Alex Cooper?

  Come on, come on.

• 1:33:55Speaker 03

  Nice to know a little bit about you and I'm a huge fan, by the way.

• 1:33:59Alex Cooper?

  Well, I'm a huge fan too. So look at us.

• 1:34:17Alex Cooper?

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• 1:35:46Alex Cooper?

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