Byron Gomez on Burger King Beginnings, Life After Top Chef, and Meeting Michelin Expectations!!

Top Chef alum and Michelin star chef Byron Gomez of BRUTØ joins us to talk about his path from fast food roots to the world of fine dining. Plus, we discuss: Skipping culinary school and whether or not it’s a prerequisite to success as a chef Completing the “culinary treble” at three of the highest profile restaurants in New York Learning from Daniel Boulud and taking the leap to a new kitchen Relocating to Denver + cooking your own steak and the “Minturn Baked Potato” ice cream dish The joy of interacting with Top Chef fans in your restaurant Byron’s creative use of seasonal ingredients to make surprising dishes later (including a creamsicle dish inspired by New York ice cream trucks) Walk In Confession: Almost getting fired for accidentally taking the boss’s phone Follow Byron: @chefbyrongomez Follow the show: @chefscutpod Follow Adrienne: @chefadriennecheatham Follow Joe: @insta.flamm

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  This week on The Chef's Cut, we are talking with Chef Byron Gomez, the Michelin-starred chef and partner of Bruto in Denver, Colorado. Byron is a Top Chef alum, and he is also the first Costa Rican chef to earn Michelin Stars. This week, we're talking about his rise from Burger King to Michelin-starred restaurants.

• 0:21Speaker 01

  I mean, you can't have it any other way, you know?

• 0:24Joe Flamm?

  Well, you can have it whatever way you want, I believe.

• 0:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  You can have it your way. Making creamsicles out of carrots.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  And that was a childhood memory from ice cream trucks back when I was in New York.

• 0:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  And the time he almost got fired by Danielle Boulud.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  There's a panic in the room. Somebody stole Chef's home because I didn't give it back to him.

• 0:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  All right, Chef Byron, it is so good to see you. We haven't hung out in a long time, so thank you for joining us.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me. What a treat, guys. Thank you so much.

• 0:55Joe Flamm?

  Super pumped that you're here, man. Very excited to have you on the pod and dig into what has been a really cool career for you so far. So I mean, Colorado is one of my favorite places, and not just from our season of Top Chef. I loved it long before that. But I have one thing about Colorado I want to talk about because I don't know if it's a specifically Colorado thing, but it's the only place I've ever seen it and done it. And I don't know if you're familiar with this. So there were places we used to go to back in the day, and I found one of them. It still exists. But there were places where you'd go in and it'd be like a steakhouse, but you'd pick out a steak and then you'd go up and they would have a giant grill and you would grill your own steak. Like you would just pick out a steak from a counter and then they'd like bring you over a ribeye and you'd go up and you'd grill a steak in the middle of the restaurant.

• 1:39Joe Flamm?

  It was like, yeah, so there's one place. It's like right outside of like Vail. It's called the Midtown Country Club, I think, or Midtown Tavern. And I don't know if you've been, but... You have not been.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  For a living, so I don't think I want to go pay to uh.

• 1:53Adrienne Cheatham?

  Thank you.

• 1:56Joe Flamm?

  Listen, listen, listen, okay.

• 1:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  I came here for somebody to cook for me.

• 2:00Joe Flamm?

  So you're not going out for Korean barbecue? You're not going out for Korean barbecue, guys?

• 2:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  How did I know you were gonna bring that up? How did I know?

• 2:06Joe Flamm?

  Because it's a good fucking point. That's how you knew.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  But I am that person that doesn't cook it. I'm the person that just waits around for it because everybody that I go with is super excited. And they're like, okay, you know, we're gonna cook for you. And I was like, sure, go ahead, please make me a cake.

• 2:20Joe Flamm?

  Okay, but I'm saying when I was like 15, this was like crazy novel. It was like they just, you really, you got to go grill a steak. But the one thing they also have there that it's like, I haven't stopped thinking about in 24 years since I've eaten it, is they have this dessert they call the mid turn baked potato. And it's ice cream rolled in cocoa powder of the like stuff with sundae stuff, but it looks like a baked potato. And I think it's maybe one of the greatest. I think it's maybe one of the greatest culinary creations in the world.

• 2:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'm looking this thing up.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  It sounds like uh like the perfect.

• 2:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Tea day, you know, just that kind of dessert.

• 2:54Joe Flamm?

  I mean, it's like.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  calories is amazing.

• 2:57Joe Flamm?

  I don't know if they've.

• 2:57Adrienne Cheatham?

  Looks like a baked potato.

• 2:58Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I don't know if they have two or three Michelin stars there, but they deserve all of them.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  Number one restaurant in the world.

• 3:05Joe Flamm?

  In my, in my opinion, if I wrote 50 best, I'd be like, listen, it's the dessert baked potato and then everybody else. That's how it works. Like, no more, work harder.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  It sounds like a destination, so uh definitely up there.

• 3:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  Worth a special trip.

• 3:20Joe Flamm?

  So, so when Adrian comes out there, we gotta go. We're going, I'll grill your steak for you.

• 3:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  Thank you.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  On the way, you know.

• 3:27Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I, I'll, I'll drive. I don't mind driving out there and I don't mind grilling your guys steak. So I'll be, I'll be over there. I'll be over there flipping them up, just wait.

• 3:35Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'll open water bottles and play DJ the whole road trip. I'm, I'm a great shotgun driver. Okay, so Byron, I have some new segments. Joe loves it when I come up with new segments. Um, and you're gonna be our first to do this new segment. And I have a great name for this one that I, it's not too dad joke corny, but it's called.

• 3:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  It's called in season. I like puns, so normally my titles are pretty bad, but this one is pretty straightforward.

• 4:01Joe Flamm?

  That's actually reasonable.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  I was gonna call it, I was gonna call it tis the season, but that's a little too evocative of Christmas.

• 4:11Joe Flamm?

  That's unbelievable.

• 4:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  Whatever. So Byron, Joe and I are largely on the eastern half of the US, right? We're east of the Mississippi, but where you are in Colorado, southwest, high desert, it's such a varied landscape. What is in season right now that you're excited about and you're cooking with at Bruto?

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Um, crones.

• 4:35Adrienne Cheatham?

  I have some crones in my refrigerator. Are you kidding me? I can literally go get them right now. Are you fucking kidding me?

• 4:42Speaker 01

  That's so funny.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  It's so exciting. Um, it's such a small, you know, it's a tuber, it's a root vegetable. We, we are able to grow it here in Colorado because of the, the terror, you know, it's cold and such. I just think they're so interesting. They're like, um, the main character, but also like the leading role or like the, the, the assistant role. Um, we, we are picking them right now for our main course at Bruto.

• 5:10Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  And, uh, they just bring such a like, nice pop. Uh, they have a beautiful texture when you pickle them. They don't get soggy. They have all this texture. You could eat them raw. Um, and it's always a curiosity when guests see them. They're like, wait, what is?

• 5:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah. Like, is that a worm?

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. One guest was, uh, two days ago, they were like, is this cartilage? I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Don't worry. It's not cartilage. We carved out that. We're good.

• 5:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's so funny. So for anybody who doesn't know, crones are a little like tuber. They're, they look like bumpy. They're usually an inch or smaller and they're kind of the texture of a sun choke or a Jerusalem artichoke. So they have that crisp watery texture. They're not very starchy.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Like a water chestnut texture.

• 5:57Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 5:57Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So super excited to have that on the menu. I don't see it often. And another one is salsify. I don't see salsify often around menus.

• 6:07Joe Flamm?

  Salsify.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. At least here in, in, in Colorado, uh, in the east coast, I definitely saw it a lot. So, uh, being able to bring those influences and what kind of marked my career at my early stage as a cook from the east coast, bringing it here is super exciting to see how people. Take it in and that like educational moment that we're able to do at Bruto is something that uh is is quite magical.

• 6:28Joe Flamm?

  I felt like the first time I saw a salsa fee in the kitchen, somebody was like, oh, you gotta peel this. And I was like, you want me to peel this bag of sticks? You know what I mean? Like, what are we doing?

• 6:38Speaker 01

  We're we're.

• 6:39Joe Flamm?

  I was I was like looking at it. I was like, what is this bullshit? We're gonna we're gonna I'm gonna peel this bag of sticks and we're gonna sell it? Like, what kind of bullshit are you guys on? Like?

• 6:51Speaker 01

  The uh I had the same reaction when I first saw uh when I was working at Cafe Balud, uh cardoons. I've never had a cardoon before.

• 6:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  And that I had, I was like, what?

• 7:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  I was like, what is this big hairy celery?

• 7:04Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, it's like this one's this one's no good. Should we send it back? Like, why is it? Like, this looks like like celery that grew next to a railroad track. You know what I mean? Where you're just like.

• 7:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  It looks like celery that grew in Chernobyl.

• 7:19Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, it's like something spilled on this that wasn't water. Like, you know, like this doesn't. Oh, man, that's so funny. So talking about you and, you know, New York and Cafe Balud, you know, you didn't just start at Cafe Balud. You got your taste of cooking with open fire before that at one of the great flame cooking restaurants of our generation.

• 7:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ever known.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  I mean, you you can't have it any other way, you know?

• 7:45Joe Flamm?

  Well, you can have it whatever way you want, I believe. I believe is is is actually you could have it your way. And at that restaurant, I believe, I believe, if I remember correctly from my time dining there.

• 7:57Adrienne Cheatham?

  Although now their tagline is you rule.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's where I I cut my teeth. I was uh mid teens and I decided to take a summer gig in the very famous restaurant called Burger King. And after that, that's where I kind of like was the thing moments in my head and all over me and it was just trying to be better, trying to be better and. Never knew that I was gonna be where I'm at now, but it's been quite a journey and it's been a fun ride for sure.

• 8:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  So where did you go? Like, take us for people who know you for your Michelin-starred restaurant in Colorado, and they know you from television. Take us from Burger King. Like, what are the places you worked at after that?

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Yes, so Burger King. Then after that, climbing the ladder. TGI Fridays.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  After TGI Fridays was the Sheraton Hotel. From the line cook to then doing banquets. And I'm just kinda getting those notches on my belt. After that, I moved that way from home and I was living in Long Island. I moved to the Bronx with $800 in my pocket. I would take the one train and then take the six down to 28th and Madison. This Southeast Station restaurant back in the day called Prana. And that restaurant was like my intro to New York City. What a melting pot. We were doing food from Southeast Asia. So Eastern India to Laos, Cambodia. We would make our own curries in-house.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  We would cook rice in these straw, kinda like straw-made kinda hats that were like upside down. And we would put the rice there, put it over a metal container, and just cover it with cheese cloth. I'd never seen rice cooked like that before. So it was like my intro of what culinary world could be like. After a few years in mom-and-pop shops around New York City, I tapped into one of my biggest mentors. We call him Papa, Daniel Bolu. And that's when I started working for Dynex. I stayed there for about five years. Then I went to work at a two-star Michelin during the type of Scandinavian cuisine. In the early 2010s, mid 2010s, I went to-

• 10:17Speaker 01

  No, this was a Terra.

• 10:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ah.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is a Terra with Ronnie Amber that came from Copenhagen. And super exciting, never seen that kind of style of service. It was also always classically French. It was flipping burgers to classically French to now a Terra. And then at that time, I was like, all right, I did a one star, two star. What else is left? I don't want to go back to classically French. So John George is out of the questions. Danielle is out of the question. And the other one was pretty much, I was like, I'm not going to get into Masa. Just because I just, you know, that's not my thing. And that's when I decided to work at Eleven Madison Park. And during that year, we became number one restaurant in the world. And I feel like I just kind of completed the treble.

• 11:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, you definitely did. So what brought you? You, I mean, you traded in the concrete jungle for the rolling hills and mountains of Colorado. Like,

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  What made you leave New York? Did you not want to plant your flag in New York? What brought you to Colorado?

• 11:18Speaker 01

  Well, during, when we got number one restaurant in the world in 2017, we got it that April. And then that summer, we closed on the restaurant for innovation. This was planned prior from us getting the award or whatever. And then we did a pop up in the Hamptons. E and P moved the entire restaurant. Summer House out in the Hamptons. And that was the first glance that I saw of living outside of New York. The world doesn't revolve around you. There's other things to see and that kind of work-life balance. That was the first sneak peek. Like I will go in the morning and we will work very hard. But then it will get darker later on at night. So around six, seven P M. I will go to the beach and surf for an hour or two and they go home.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  And that was the first time I was like, wow, this is cool. We went back to New York that fall. The next summer, we did the pop up again. And I was part of that team, became a sous chef, went back as a sous chef. And then in the winter, we did Winter House in Aspen. At that time, I started questioning myself. I'm like, okay. Well, it's amazing to work for all these chefs and they're definitely engraved in my career and my story. But do I want to give my all to somebody who maybe gets most of the credit? And I'm just behind the scenes, whether it's creativity, drive, all those things, which is important.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  It is a team sport. Kitchens are team sports. You need different players to play different roles within that team and execute. But at that time, I just felt something inside of me that I wanted to carve my own way. And I know what that was. It's scary. It's a very scary moment. It's that Y intersection. Of you could fall into your comfort zone and stay at this amazing restaurant that is still very amazing. No matter the critics or what people think, because it's hard to own a business. I mean, you both know it firsthand. It's hard to do it, especially at that caliber, whether I was going to be there five, six, seven years and then be the executive sous chef. Maybe another 10 years and be the CDC or executive chef. Did I want that? And then what's next for me?

• 13:24Speaker 01

  I would rather take the risk. I would rather take the road less traveled. And I decided not to go back to New York. I decided to stay in Aspen. And I took over this restaurant as the executive chef and everybody left that spring back to New York. And it's like when that reality hits, wow, you were just at the top. Now you're down in this valley. What's is going to be the next mountain top? Well, now you have all the accountability on you. Everything falls on you. All the responsibility is on you. How are you going to rise from this? So that's when I started and then 2019, 2020 came around and Top Chef knocked on the door. And I was like, yeah, let me take this opportunity, see what happens.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  And then after that, my life pretty much changed. But I think it was me taking that action of seeing where I wanted to go. When life started giving me what I needed. And I have everything that I need in order to succeed or to fail. Like it's up to me.

• 14:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  And that's a question a lot of people have is like, when do I know I'm ready? When do I know that it's my time to open a restaurant? And for everybody, it's different. I wanted to be behind the scenes. I wanted to be a CDC at La Bernardette and work there for 20 years, holding the standard, while Eric Repair is the one out front. But some people don't want that. And I mean, I kind of got pushed onto a different path. But everybody asks like, how do I know when I'm ready? And it sounds like you found your answer there.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I mean, every day we're still trying. You know, everybody sees the glory, but they don't know the story. They don't know that, you know, they see me now, but they don't know that it took 20 years to get to 2021, when Top Chef aired, to now from 2021 to 2025, to be able to have these opportunities. But 20 years prior to that, nobody knew me. It was head down. It was the sacrifice. Are you willing to do that trade off? 20 years for a five year return?

• 15:21Joe Flamm?

  Right. And it's, you know, we, me and Adrian have talked about it before, but it's funny, like when you go and do TV, it's like, people kind of act like, oh, that's when your career started, right? They're like, oh, you did Top Chef and then like you became a chef. And it's like, no, I did this for 20 years. You know what I mean? It's like, and then that happened to come about and like, I kept doing the thing I was doing. And I think like taking that jump, you know, one of the things like, I think I talk about with like, you know, my friends, it's like, when you work for those really big chefs, right? That are prolific, that are, you know, the, the balloons, the, you know, repairs, the, you know, 11 Madison Parks, like the Daniel Hums. You are in the shadow, right? But you're also, you know, when you leave that, you realize the shadow was from the

• 16:06Joe Flamm?

  umbrella that kept you dry and safe.

• 16:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 16:08Joe Flamm?

  And so now you no longer, it's like, yeah, you're not in the shadow anymore, but you don't have any shade anymore either. This shit's all falling on your head.

• 16:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  You had no cover, no protection.

• 16:17Joe Flamm?

  Like when you got the sunshine, you got the sunshine. That's, that's fucking great for you, bro. But like, when it's raided, it's like, brother, get a bucket. Like, cause there ain't nobody covered, you know? And it's like, and I think, and it's a wild, the wild feeling that first time when you realize like, I'm out here alone now. Like I got my team, but there's nobody else for me to look up to and say like, hey, what do we do? It's like, I'm the what do we do person now? It's like, oh shit.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  It's like, um, it's like that, uh, that Mike Tyson saying, uh, you know, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. Yeah. You know, and, and, and staying in those places, whether, you know, like for you, Adrian, you got that nourishment. You got that safety. You, you, you took those risks. You put in the hard work. Like you said, everybody's different, but it comes a time that, you know, you have to carve your own way, I think. And some people, that's their way to stay there. And that's totally fine. You know, but it's just, just, just taking that leap of faith a lot of times. So like, I don't know if this is gonna work out, but I'm gonna do it. And, um, it's, it's, it's reality and it's scary. And then you deal with imposter syndrome and then you deal with like, man, could've, should've, would've.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  It's this whole mindfuck and people think you're on television. Yes, your life could change, but it's like a second and third job. Cause now you're promoting yourself. You work in a, your personal brand. You're learning how to be your own agent, your own manager, your, your own PR. You know, you, you have your, your daily job at the restaurant and responsibilities. But you gotta wake up at six o'clock in the morning because you have a call in the East Coast and you come in the West, it's nine AM there. And it's like another job to keep up.

• 17:50Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's a lot. That's the thing that a lot of people don't realize and Joe kinda struggles with that. Like, I wanna go do this television thing cause it helps drive attention to the restaurants, but I also don't wanna leave my team. I'm like, dude, you gotta do it. Like, you just gotta do it.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  That's when you start learning how to like surround yourself with people you could trust. And, and start building that team. And also be open minded that they're not gonna do it like you. That is your value. That's why you're there. You could only mentor other people and rub some things off and hope they catch it. But they're gonna have their own style. And as a leader, I need to understand that and let them develop into that. And, and that could be hard at first.

• 18:29Joe Flamm?

  Right. It's, I think it's super hard of like letting go of anything, right? We're such control freaks about everything. And I think.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  It costs you so much to get there. Twenty years or whatever many years to open your fresh restaurant. It costs you so much.

• 18:41Joe Flamm?

  Right. You know, every late night you had, you know, every train ride you took, you know what I mean? You know, everything you missed, every self doubt you ever had sitting on the, you know, it's like, I remember like I was a line cook, those long train rides home, you know what I mean? After you just got eviscerated all night and had people just tell you life, like people basically be like, don't come back tomorrow. I don't know why you showed up today.

• 19:06Adrienne Cheatham?

  You suck at life. You're the worst person ever to walk this earth.

• 19:10Joe Flamm?

  Like, like, you suck, your knives suck, your shoes suck, like, you know, your haircut sucks, like, why? You know what I mean? And you're just like, oh, yes, chef, yes, chef, yes, chef.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  Are we, are we psychotic by laughing at these things?

• 19:22Joe Flamm?

  And it's just like, and then it's like, you gotta go sit.

• 19:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  Through the pain.

• 19:26Joe Flamm?

  You gotta go sit on a train for an hour.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Let that marinate, let that sink in.

• 19:32Joe Flamm?

  And just like, sit there, like, like by yourself, like, you know, you can't even doom scroll at this point.

• 19:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  I didn't go straight to the train. I would stop and have a beer and a shot of Jack before I got on the train. Take the edge off of that, of that pain from the day.

• 19:48Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. And it's like, they don't, you know, so it's like, you're like, every little detail that we're so focused on, every little thing we're trying to control. And I think it's like, for me, at least I found, I'm like, I have to remind myself, like, you know, the greatest thing anybody ever gave me was trust, right?

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:04Joe Flamm?

  And like the trust to run their restaurant when they weren't there, the trust to run a service when they were out for the night. And my biggest moments of growth came when I was afforded that trust. You know, did I do it as well as them? Sure. If you ask them, they would say no. Uh, but you know, like, but, but because they gave me that trust, I was able to push myself further than I was ready to at the time, or I was comfortable with at least at the time. And I think like, I have to remind myself that I'm like, if I don't give them space to try to step into something bigger, how could they possibly, you know what I mean? If I don't give them that room to say like, hey, I'm not there, you gotta do it. You have to be the person. Like you are, you know, as far as anyone's concerned, like this is your restaurant tonight.

• 20:49Joe Flamm?

  But that's the biggest part of like our job, right? Of what we do. It's like being that person to say, you know what? No, fuck it. We're doing it this way. Let's go.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 20:56Joe Flamm?

  Right? But it's super hard.

• 20:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, it is. It's really, really hard. One thing I want to know also, you've worked in places from Burger King to one, two, three Michelin stars to now having your own Michelin stars that you've earned. What is a kitchen habit or a discipline that you learned at some point in your career and you still rely on every day?

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Um, this, this, this May belief system that humans have that keeps us in order, but there's really no track of what that is, this track of time, a timeline. I treat it like, I mean, it's what is really 12 o'clock midnight? Is it really 12 o'clock midnight? Or is it just a standard that we know programmed to know that this time is 12 o'clock midnight? Well, that really helps us in the kitchen because that's your biggest enemy. You are literally racing against time from the time you clock in to the time you clock out, whether it's setup, whether it's getting the order up on the window on time, and whether it's breaking down to get out on time. You're, you're, you're always doing that. And I learned

• 22:04Speaker 01

  that if I keep a timeline of my day and I break it down into segments, the first week is all data gathering. So I look at the clock. I bought this big red clock at Bruto and it's hidden in the corner where the cooks are only, they only have to turn their head and look at it. And when we roll out a menu, they have a whole week to draw out a timeline. You come in at this time, this is going to take you, chives are going to take you this long. Uh, set up your night pants are going to take you this long. Put everything in a squeeze bar are going to take. So then they know within the two hours that they have to set up what that timeline is like. The next week they turn it in. I review it. Now, me as a manager, as their mentor and chef, I have an idea what the day looks like. I'm

• 22:48Speaker 01

  just not going in blowing on my fucking lid because they're not ready. I have an understanding where they're coming from and what they're dealing with. And then the week later, we start hacking at it. It's called mentality that we practice a lot of Bruto is called It's a Japanese way of being 1% better each day. You don't have to be 10%, just be 1% better. So if that timeline took you two and a half hours this week, next week is gonna give you two hours and 25 minutes. The week after that, two hours and 20 minutes. And you can see that confidence building in them. They're like, holy shit, I could do it. At first, it's like deer in headlights. Menu change? Oh, my God. No. You are doing what you need to do and what you're called to do and what you're good at and what you're developing yourself. And that's a cook.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  So just cook. The time management, that's the hard part. So you start doing that homework, review it every day. Eventually, you don't have any processing to do no more because you become uncomfortable and knowledgeable and you gain confidence. You're able to execute. And then all around, the machine just starts working back again.

• 23:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  That is huge.

• 23:53Joe Flamm?

  It's such a monster skill because it's the idea of like, this is the least you're ever gonna be responsible for. Is just a station, right? Every step you go further on this journey, there's more. So the sooner you figure out, you know, how to like time block yourself and hold yourself to a regiment and hold yourself accountable.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:15Joe Flamm?

  Like the better you are. All of a sudden, you're a sous chef. Now you have to be really good at time blocking your day. Prioritizing what needs to get done, holding yourself accountable, holding, you know, seven to 15 other people accountable. And it's like, you know, if you're giving, I think, giving them the opportunity from the jump of like, hey, these are all like, they might not even see it, right? You know, it's like the wax on, wax off. It's like they don't even understand like why it's so important they're doing it. But it's like, this is all the building blocks of everything you're gonna need to be a good sous chef. To not just be a great line cook, but to be a good sous chef, to be a good chef, to be a good manager. It's going to be, because it's all right. It's all just organization and communication, right?

• 24:56Joe Flamm?

  And you're putting it on them to do those two things every time you change a menu is fucking awesome.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's why, you know, like you said, like, you could be doing wax on, wax off, and you don't know why you're doing it. That's why the next week, we review it together. It'd be like, this is the information you gave me. I didn't make this up. You gave me this.

• 25:14Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  So now you're gonna see your progression day by day by day. And then if you're, if you shave off fifty more minutes, doesn't mean that you get to fuck off and put on your thumbs. No, you get to take on more things. Because when you're a sous chef, that's when people get burned down in that middle management and they say burnout, mental health, which is very important. I went through that myself. But it's because they don't have the structure and the foundation, how to manage your time. The cooking part, we're good. The showing up part, we're good. The taking the beating, we're good. Once you get to management, it's a mind thing. A lot of it's not because you're not even cooking anymore. Physically, you're not really cooking. I miss cooking. I don't, I don't get to cook as much, as small as my kitchen is. And I'm like, guys, just enjoy it and get that foundation.

• 25:59Joe Flamm?

  That's, I think.

• 26:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, the time management is huge. The every, every station I remember training on a new station, I worked in pastry before switching to savory and everything was like, here's this recipe of this, this will take you an hour and a half. And then you do that. And so I was kind of primed for it without even knowing it. And then when I got into fine dining, every station I was trained at, I had my little notebook and it's like 10 minutes do this. It's like you have your prep list on the left side and then you have your timestamps on the right about how long each thing should take. And then getting that like, wow, I got better at this. I got faster at this. I feel it's like it builds your confidence as you go and then fast and accurate. It's like, okay, I did it faster, but did it come at the expense of quality?

• 26:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  Or did I do it faster and more efficiently? And sometimes like you get to the point where you're like, now I can like step back and look at the prep list and I can maybe make it a little bit more efficient than the person who trained me if I put these two things next to each other that are more related. And that was like, that's one of those moments where you're like, I can figure this out. I can do this.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  Yep. So you do that enough times, then five years later, 10 years later, it stacks up. You're ready.

• 27:12Joe Flamm?

  I remember like being at Girl and the Goat, it's like, we all got really good at butchering pig heads because if they weren't done at the end of the night, we all had to butcher pig heads. So you got really fast at them because it's like, we just wanted to make last call. Like, so that's why we got fast at them because it's like, man, if we don't bang these things out before 120, we're not going to make it across the street before 130. So it's like, we got to be able to rip these things. So it's like, I feel like those shift pay are like, it was like, you got the benefit of you got to work shorter hours if you could be faster. You know what I mean? For the same amount of money. And now it's like, when we're in this era of, you know, it's like, most cooks work four 10s or five eights or whatever they do.

• 27:52Joe Flamm?

  It's like, you have to teach them how to be efficient within a system that works, right? You can't just be like, hey, you need to show up when you need to get your prep done. And like, if it takes you three hours because you're a newer cook, that's okay. You get three hours. And if you're a faster cook, it takes you an hour and a half, then you can come in later. Like, that's kind of what it was, right? Like, it was just the natural environment that kind of forced us to do it. So I think it's a really smart way to kind of like, create that in a more healthy way, right? Where it's not just like, oh, like, hey, you suck at setting up your station, just work 16 hours.

• 28:27Speaker 01

  Well, it also teaches accountability, which is huge what we do here at Bruto, because I did take accountability onto management. And then, you know, it's, it's just, again, it's, I, I, I tell the guys, the reason I give you advice, it's not because I'm smarter or wiser than you, it's because I fucked up way more times than you have.

• 28:45Joe Flamm?

  That's, that's it. That's it.

• 28:48Joe Flamm?

  And I think people like, you know, like, when you talk about like, culture of restaurants and like, great lines that you're on, it's like, realizing it's like, accountability is culture. Like, the only way to keep culture accountability. And it's like, I think people are like, oh, like,

• 29:00Speaker 01

  I'm looking out for you.

• 29:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right. I don't want you to make the mistake I made. I did it and I got.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  I'm looking out for you.

• 29:07Adrienne Cheatham?

  Exactly. Byron, I want to ask, because you have such a rich background, originally being from Costa Rica, experiencing all the different cultures that you've cooked in, all the different types of cuisines you've worked in. I want to know, when you're creating dishes at your restaurant, what, where do you normally start? What comes first? Is it a memory? Is it a technique? Is it an ingredient?

• 29:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's so, ah, man, it's, it's such a complex question and answer, because, um, right now at Bruto is, um, the first thing has to be, what, what is the story? What is the storytelling? So, um, right now, the fish dish, it's only two things, a piece of steamed sable fish with a white asparagus sauce.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Well, what is the story there? White asparagus is a very short season in the spring. About three to four weeks. While everybody in the country is having a feeding frenzy. When it's in season, everybody's excited, as they should. We decide to not be part of that. We decide to preserve it, pickle it. We took the peels, each individual asparagus. And we turned it into a powder, which was for our ice cream in our summertime menu. Then we took the pickled and we made a beurre blanc out of it, which we're serving now. To me, that's luxury. When you can have an ingredient that is not available, it's not in season, but you're able to taste it. So we began with a preservation, fermentation, all these practices.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  Another one was in the summer, we had our last bite is pretty much whatever trim we have of different ingredients throughout the menu. So we were juicing carrots for our fish dish in the summer. We took that pulp and made a creamsicle out of it with koji that we utilized to make our miso. So it tasted like a creamsicle. And that was a childhood memory from ice cream trucks back when I was in New York. So I could look at a color, I could look at a texture. And if I'm looking at something that's like this vase that has is aerated and I I could look at a sponge cake that we could do in a microwave and you tear it.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  And then I could think about rocks and what is going to be texturally so we could coat something in white cocoa? That it has that rock flavor, but it's gooey in the inside. And all I want is just to invoke an experience, a memory, a feeling. Because this industry is extremely competitive. Right now, we are in an age where businesses are suffering because of the the labor. The generational labor, whatever you want to call it, competition, inflation. How am I gonna be thankful that these guests are choosing my business today compared to any other business? When they have a million other options to go dine anywhere. When you're talking about Michelin, you're at another level.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  People talk about, oh, the accolades, this and that. No, it's like a thousand more pounds of weight that you have to carry. Because now you're being criticized even in a more focused scale. So I just want to evoke something, whether that's a storytelling, preservation practices. It is my job to manipulate, to cook, to put out the best product and to give those guests a two hour, two and a half hour experience when they're sitting at Bruto. And then they could go back to their lives and go back to the stress and go back to the scrolling. All I'm asking, I want to make you feel human. I want to make you feel cared for. Is that hospitality with service? Absolutely. Are we the best at it? No, but this is what I've been training to do.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  I'm just trying to tell a story and I hope that we could connect and have that human connection somehow.

• 32:56Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I love that. It's like you could just tell it's like, you know, when you're saying you're trying to evoke something. It's like talking about that crepesicle. It's like, I could just imagine someone eating that and smiling. And like, that's the best feeling, right? Like when you have this idea and you're like, this reminds me of something so specific, right? Like I had a, I had a zucchini dish on the menu a couple of summers ago at Rosemary. And we would grill them and it's just the smell of zucchini and charcoal on the grill. Like made me feel like I was running around my backyard on 84th street. Like it just was like, it was like perfect in my head, right? And I had a friend of mine's dad came in and he ate the dish. You know, and I went, I was like, oh, what'd you think of it?

• 33:40Joe Flamm?

  And he was like, he was tearing up. He's like, I grew up here. He's like, and it's like, it's a simple dish, man. It's grilled zucchini with smoked beef fat and Parmesan fondue to pickled zucchinis on it. It's nothing, you know, it doesn't float. It's not on a river. You know what I mean? Like, it's not any, and then he was like, my mom used to make grilled zucchini as a kid over like the Weber. And he's like, and it just, I haven't tasted something like that in so long. And it just reminded me of her. And you know, she's been gone for years and I haven't had her food in years. And he goes, it just made me emotional. He goes, I can't explain it. And it was like, and I was like, well, fuck me, dude. Like, come on.

• 34:19Joe Flamm?

  Like, I'm in the middle of service here. I'm in the middle of service here. You're just wrecking me with this? Like, I just wanted to know if you liked the dish. Like, you know, when you talk about that, that creepsicle, it's like, I just imagined someone like, you know, you get that one person who has that same connection. Like, oh, man, yeah, this is that. This is summertime New York. This is the ice cream. Yeah. This is being, there's no more thrilling moment than pulling that wrapper off that thing. He was like, man, we are living large. We're living ice cream truck large right now.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  We get to evoke those childhood like memories on other people, but also myself. And, and get it, guys, running a business is hard. Multiplying yourself, I, I, I hope that AI could figure out how to clone myself. So I could be more efficient. It's hard. But what a beautiful, we have a responsibility for that. And we also have the skills to give somebody that gift.

• 35:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  There is another question that I'm curious to ask you because you've also gone through several iterations of yourself. And we've talked about this, I think, years ago, when I met you in Aspen and how, you know, you've, you've worked on yourself. We all want to get better. We all want to unlearn some of the bad habits we learned. We all want to try every day to be 1% better, like you said. And what is something that you had to unlearn? A kitchen habit, a life habit, something you had to unlearn to help you become a better version of yourself?

• 35:46Speaker 01

  Bruto's an 18 seat counter, open kitchen. People get to see everything, see the performance, see the execution.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  Although I was already in television when I got to Bruto and did a little disposure. Doing the food that I was doing at that level with that setting. One thing that I had to unlearn is to not be so focused on this and actually look up. Look up and be present. Because there's so many cues that you miss. There's so many reading the room moments that you could miss. And I finally kind of understood. Why when I was working with Daniel Boulud or Daniel Hoom or Gavin Kason, they will leave the kitchen. They will leave the pass and go to the dining room. Because that's able to give you a sense of where you're at, where you're going, what the energy is like in the room, what the pace is.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  And seeing the guest's reaction. From the food that they're having, whether it was bad. Not bad, but I'm saying like maybe they didn't like it, maybe they left something. That taught me how to manage my business better, the kitchen better, uh, the team better, the execution, maybe the things that I thought. And I'm just gonna die on this hill because this is the recipe for this dish. Maybe we need to pivot. Because I need to let my ego aside and actually, I don't work for the company. I don't work for Bruno. I work for the guest. If I don't have guests in my dining room, I don't get paid. My cooks don't get paid, the business doesn't. So having that realization. Of looking up, I'm at a point in my career where I can look up and have all the people and trust the people that could manage the stuff that I don't need to manage.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  Do I want to act so fucking lonely? Don't want to be like, guys, you can't fucking figure this shit out. A hundred percent, most of my time, but that's not my job anymore. I have a middle person that I could go up to that and they could distribute, they could say the message along the team. So, uh. I needed to be comfortable in that. I needed to grow into that role. I needed to accept. My place. In the kitchen. Of what is my execution? How am I gonna do better? That, uh, if Garmagey under seasons the salad, then I'm gonna go under review and say. Little Tommy on season the salad, that's where we're writing this article. They're gonna be like Chef Byron Gold. And I'm like, dude. So he's dealing with all of that and I think it's just being present.

• 38:09Joe Flamm?

  Chef Byron's awesome, Little Tommy sucks though, you know? Never know how the review would read.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  So, uh, yeah, that is just looking up and being present.

• 38:20Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, the, the, the old way of training, like, keep your head down, focus on your station. That is a really hard habit to unlearn when you're at the point that you're like, oh no, I need to look around. I need to see what other people are doing and not be focused on this one thing. I need to have a big picture view.

• 38:39Joe Flamm?

  Right. And especially, I think, you know, you, you know, doing like Top Chef and all that stuff. It's like now you have a place where it's like, people are coming to see you too. You know what I mean? They want to see you. They want to interact with you. So it's like, there has to be a level of like, and I'm not saying people need all access, but it's like, I feel like you got, you gotta give them some of that, right? And it's like that.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  You do.

• 38:58Joe Flamm?

  Really realizing that like enriches their experience and it costs you nothing to do to just be like, hey, what's up? You know what I mean? Like, you know, it's like.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  Makes their day. Makes their day.

• 39:08Joe Flamm?

  Right. You know, and people, you know, they'll tell me like, you know, I'm getting like a DM with like, oh, I'm coming in. I'll be like, cool. Say hi. Like, oh, is that cool? It's like, yeah, no, it'd be weird if you didn't.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've had people reach out to me and they're like on the ends and I reach out back and they're like, oh my God, I would never thought you would have responded. This is so, and I'm like, well, we're fucking healies too, like.

• 39:29Joe Flamm?

  Right. And it's like, also you were, we're humans who like want you to patronize our business. Like, I want you to get that. Like, it's my whole thing is trying to get people to come to the thing that I'm doing, you know? So it's like, you're like, hey, I want to come. It's like, I'm going to try to figure out how to make that happen for you.

• 39:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  Byron, one, one question also that I find really interesting is there's different schools of thought in the industry about going to culinary school and skipping culinary school. And my mom worked in the industry. I was raised by a woman who was in the industry herself. So, you know, I'm a, I'm a lifer. But I remember her telling me culinary school, you don't go to learn things. You learn to prove to a chef you're applying to that you can stick with something. You're going to learn the names of what to call stuff, but you're not going to learn until you're in a restaurant working. And I know you didn't go to culinary school and you've achieved like some of the highest accolades in our industry.

• 40:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  What is your view on culinary school and you skipping it? And did you feel like you wanted to go? Like, can you tell us a little bit about that?

• 40:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I always, it's a story of my life. I, I always wanted to fit in. Whether it was in high school, whether it was with a certain group of friends. Then on culinary school, I wanted to fit in and, and, and I never got the opportunity to go to culinary school. So then I felt like an outsider. When I applied to work with Dynex, Daniel Boulud. I was like, this guy has interns from Lyon, from Switzerland, from Asia. Why is he gonna take me? You know, and, and, and as a chef now, a lot of it has to do with you showing up. That's half the battle and have a good attitude. I'm gonna teach you all the fuckups that I did and what not to do. And I could maybe save you a couple hundred thousand dollars.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Whether you're changing careers, you know, going to culinary school, whatever that is. I myself, life did not present me that opportunity. So I took the enrollment of School of Hard Knocks. I had no other choice. In my opinion, I'm all for education. But I had a kid who just started working for us. Was texting me late spring last year. Hey chef, I'm done with my internship at Osteria Franciscana in late summer. I'm coming back to the U S. I'm a CIA, I'm in the middle of CIA. I would love to come and work for you once I get back. We rented him the stage. He came in, he was able to do his two day stage.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  At the end of his stage, he's like, I need to go back and finish culinary school in December. And I was like, okay, well, I need to hire somebody like today. So what's gonna happen? He's like, all right, let me go back home. And I was like, okay. He drove from Florida to Colorado for a two day stage and then was gonna drive back. I was like, okay. He came back the next day. Uh, chef, I spoke to some people that, you know, I trust and I'm not gonna go back to culinary. And I was like, cool.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  I'm taking a risk on you because you took a risk on me. That kind of attitude is one of a go getter. Did that kid realize that culinary school? I was like, why are you going to finish culinary school if, if, once he came back and accepted the job? And he goes like, I don't know, just to get my name out there. I was like, you came from Australia, Franciscana, and you being offered a, a, a job at a one star Michelin restaurant. Wha- what do you mean? You're there, right?

• 43:13Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 43:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  Taking those two samples is just like, what is the right answer? Everybody has a different path. Culinary school wasn't my answer, wasn't my action. This kid's, he tried it, he left it. He's in a better place, maybe. I, I, I don't know, but I think, um, yeah.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  If that makes sense.

• 43:35Joe Flamm?

  Totally.

• 43:35Adrienne Cheatham?

  Definitely makes sense.

• 43:37Joe Flamm?

  I mean, completely makes sense to me. I always, you know, it's like, I feel like I've had those interns with like, oh, well, I'm going to go finish, you know, two more years at Kendall or CRA, whatever, so I can get like my bachelor's in culinary. And I'm like, for like, one is somebody else paying for it. If somebody else is paying for it and the money doesn't matter, then yeah, go ahead, go have two more years of fun. You know what I mean? Go enjoy it. Why not? Who cares? Yeah, we go hang out in upstate New York or Chicago, whatever. Go do it. It's like, but if you are paying for this, it's like you're out of your mind. Cause you're not going to take that bachelor's degree and then go to law school or go take your MCATs. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, it's like, just get to work. You want to be a chef? You want to be a cook? Like, start cooking.

• 44:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 44:17Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 44:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  See, I went to culinary school, but I was in a work-study program. So I was working for chefs around New York for free. It was like, you're short-staffed on a Saturday, you need somebody, because you can't pull a sushi from the restaurant. You need somebody to set up your demo. So it was very hands-on. It was very practical. So I feel like I got a lot out of it in that way. So, yeah, I'm just, I'm always curious about that because for somebody to, you know, some people look at culinary school as it's going to guarantee me success in the industry. And, you know, it depends on the person. Obviously, you have achieved the heights of the industry without having gone to culinary. School. So, you know, it's, it's not always necessary.

• 44:59Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I don't think there's anything that guarantees anything in this industry. It's just not that, you know, and even if you look at culinary schools, there's no Harvard, there's no Yale, there's no like, oh, I went to, you know, it's like you went to CIA, it's like, yes, sure. You can say that's the best culinary school in America, but it's culinary school.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  I think the day hard work only guarantees you a better shot of doing something else and something harder. That's it. Doesn't guarantee success. It, it, it, it just really doesn't, you know, and people think a hard word guarantees your success. No, it's just give you a better shot than just being on the fucking couch and scrolling through, you know, Netflix. So go, that gives you a better chance. That, that, that's.

• 45:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  Or, or watching other people cook on Instagram.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Or TikTok.

• 45:43Joe Flamm?

  Right. Yeah. Yeah. It'll, it'll give you the opportunity for something more, you know, at least. It's just like, yeah, but it's like, you know, somebody asked me the other day, they came in and they're like, how many of these people on your line went to culinary school? Mostly, I don't know. I, because I never ask anymore. I never ask people like, oh, did you go to culinary school? I'm usually like, did you work anywhere before this? And if they worked anywhere before this, we talk about that. And it doesn't matter to me. One of my torn outs right now is a guy I hired who he was, his resume before he worked for me was bone of beef and Chick-fil-A. The rest of his resume is rosemary and now he's a torn out at bar two ten. And it's like, he's nasty and like, it's awesome. And it's like, I don't, you didn't go to culinary school. I don't care. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, it's like, can you cook? Are you not an asshole?

• 46:28Joe Flamm?

  Like, do you want to hang out with us? Like bonus points if you're funny, you know, I always.

• 46:32Speaker 01

  We're, we're cool. Like you want to hang out with us.

• 46:35Joe Flamm?

  I always say like, if you're going to be shitty, at least be funny, you know, like if you're going to be a really shitty cook, like try to be a little funny. It'll get you a long way. Like if you at least could be like, you know, a vibes person on the line, you know, of like, like you kind of suck.

• 46:51Joe Flamm?

  But you're like, but you're like, you know what? Like, yeah, I know Gina sucks, but like Gina's fucking hilarious. So it's like, we'll let her work our mouth for nine more months. Like, you know, it's like.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  It's funny that you talk about you always see the vibes because, you know, coming up the ranks, like I will use those people as my shield when I will fuck up. And I would just say something to trigger other person. So they could take the spotlight and I'll be just in the corner, just like I'm fucking everything that I would do it. And they put it up. So it, I just reminded me of that when you said that.

• 47:21Adrienne Cheatham?

  Well Byron, we know what you've achieved in the industry. We know where you started. We know where you climbed up to and we know where you are now. But there was a young Byron, back in the day. A young Byron Gomez, working at his restaurants, doing his thing, maybe in fine dining, maybe before, who made a memorable mistake, right? So we have a segment that we call Walk-in Confessions. And this is where we finally come clean about the mistakes that our younger selves made that we can own up to now. No shame, no embarrassment. You're in a safe space.

• 47:57Joe Flamm?

  You know, shame dies in the light, as I said.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Um, well, something, and an instance that kind of taught me something, it has, I don't know, maybe not doing with cooking, but I applied to cooking. I was working at Epis River Lou on 64th and Broadway. And I took that place almost like my culinary school, because at that time in that corner, it was Bar Berlou, Epis River Lou, and Berlusconi around the corner. So on my days off, I would stage in the other restaurants. Whether it was pastry, whether it was in the line, whether it was breakfast, I just wanted to learn. I saw the opportunity and I was like, I'm gonna hop on this bandwagon. And Danny Berlou came and there was a, oddly enough, there was a, I think it was season 12 of Top Chef.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  The cast was having a dinner party at one of the PDRs. So Danny Berlou comes up and being him, he wants to take pictures and then everybody wants to take pictures. So they happened to pull me to the PDR and they're like, hey, can you take pictures? So I'm taking pictures. I got like 16 phones in front of me, taking pictures, all of that. Everybody takes their phone back. Chef is saying hi, just in his own world. I happened to walk away. 10 minutes later, there's a panic in the room, in the kitchen. Somebody took Chef's phone. Somebody stole Chef's phone. Because I didn't give it back to him, you know? And now I'm thinking, my job is on the fucking line. The executive chef comes out to me like, you fucked up dude. Like, what the fuck Byron?

• 49:30Speaker 01

  Because obviously, you know, he's gonna look bad. His team is gonna, it's just like a whole trickled out effect. Everybody, his assistant, everybody's just fucking freaking out. And finally, somebody from the cast comes back like 20 minutes later. They were like, oh, we were down Columbus Circle and we realized we took an extra phone. This is somebody's phone. It's Chef's phone. I'm like, I'm not fired. Saying, fucking God, I am not fired.

• 49:53Joe Flamm?

  Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  So that told me a few things is.

• 49:56Joe Flamm?

  Bro, bro, getting fired on your day off when you're stodging too.

• 50:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'm here for you.

• 50:03Joe Flamm?

  Something uncooking related would be all time, all time.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  So that told me a few things is I had this thing I still, the guy's just like, take a penny, leave a penny policy. If you take something, just put it back, put it back where you found it, put it back where it belongs. Also, if somebody's giving you an order, do it right now. Drop everything and do it right now because you're not going to remember because you have your task, you have your timeline, you have your day. Just accomplish that and move on to the next thing. And then how to organize myself, you know, now I know what it is. I don't want to say an assistant, but I have a team of, you know, I have a PR person, I have a manager. And, and they're all doing their job to enhance my job. And if I don't do something, they don't eat, they don't get paid and things like that. So he told me how to like build a team and I remember that assistant, how much she was freaking out for something that wasn't even her fault.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  But also it's just like, keep your shit on check on my end.

• 50:59Speaker 01

  Don't, don't take pictures for Daniel Baloo ever again.

• 51:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  Give the right person back the right phone.

• 51:07Joe Flamm?

  I, I love the idea of you having to walk into an interview at EMP after that and explain why you got fired from Blue. So, uh, why, why did you leave, uh, Danielle's group? Fucking lost the phone, man. I lost the phone. I, there was like 16 phones. Was, I wasn't even working that day. Like, it wasn't my fault, dude. I just, I don't know where the phone was.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Worked that day.

• 51:29Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. I'm not a photographer. I'm not a photographer. All right, guys.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Oh, that's awesome.

• 51:38Joe Flamm?

  Chef, thank you so, so much. This was an absolute blast. Uh, me and Adrian, we, we gotta come visit you out there. We gotta come eat at Bruto. Uh, I'm going to take you guys both out for ice cream, baked potatoes. Watch, watch your heads explode against the wall.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  Love it.

• 51:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's it for this episode of The Chef's Cut. Be sure to subscribe wherever you're listening, especially if you're watching us on YouTube, where you can find full-length video episodes of each show. And follow us at @chefscutpod on IG. On behalf of Joe Flamm, I'm Adrienne Cheatham, and this has been The Chef's Cut. Life beyond the past.