Part Two: Neuroscientist Dr. Julia Mossbridge: Was I a CIA Experiment? Remote Viewing, Missing Memories, and the Science of Psychic Abilities

What if neurodivergence, intuition, and psychic ability are all connected, and we’ve been misunderstanding them this entire time? In this mind-expanding episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, Dr. Julia Mossbridge—cognitive neuroscientist, author of Have a Nice Disclosure!, and Human Potential Research Lead for The Telepathy Tapes—returns to the studio to pull back the curtain on the brain, consciousness, and humanity’s untapped abilities. Dr. Mossbridge reveals what neurodivergence actually looks like in the brain (and why individual lived experience matters more than labels), her groundbreaking view that there’s no true distinction between unconscious processing of local information and non-local information, why information is not the same as matter or energy (and why that changes everything), and what kinds of information we can access non-locally through remote viewing. She also breaks down: - Tips anyone can use to strengthen intuition, psychic perception, and precognition - Why nonspeakers may lead the next love revolution, and what their abilities are teaching us about consciousness - How to safely explore non-local awareness without losing grounding - Hidden positives & real drawbacks of diagnostic labels (and how they can both empower and limit us) - Cognitive drain we’re all experiencing from modern society, and why so many people feel chronically overwhelmed - Why most people don’t understand how they operate until they revisit their childhood and caregiver relationships - How identifying your special abilities offers the clearest window into your internal world - Brain-based factors that affect our ability to filter environmental and non-local input - True definition of unconditional love—and why it’s a functional state, not a feeling Dr. Julia also opens up about deeply mysterious chapters of her life, including: - Her experiences in a gifted childhood program she believes she doesn’t fully remember - Possible ulterior motives of the program’s administrators - Potential ties to research on radiation exposure and radio waves - What it’s been like to publicly acknowledge extrasensory abilities as a respected academic - When she first realized she had psychic abilities, and how those abilities evolved over time PLUS... Julia guides Mayim through a live remote viewing exercise, demonstrating how unconditional love can be used as a signal to access information from the future, in real time. This episode challenges neuroscience, psychology, and everything we think we know about the limits of the human mind. TUNE IN to MBB to change how you see yourself, your brain, and reality itself! Dr. Julia Mossbridge’s latest book, have a nice disclosure!: ⁠⁠https://www.amazon.com/have-nice-disclosure-Julia-Mossbridge/dp/B0G3PKGGSM/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0⁠ or ⁠theinspiracy.love⁠ Julia's Writings: ⁠https://theinspiracy.love/⁠ https://theinspiracy.love/ Julia's nonprofit: ⁠https://loveandtime.org⁠ https://loveandtime.org Julia's RV team: ⁠https://intuitiveforecasting.com⁠ https://intuitiveforecasting.com Inside The Power We Hold: ⁠https://share.google/TY9v2AhHlmgMUVsgI⁠ https://share.google/TY9v2AhHlmgMUVsgI The Bridge Curriculum to Support Nonspeakers: ⁠https://bridgetothriving.org/⁠ https://bridgetothriving.org/ Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/mayimbialik%E2%81%A0 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Mayim Bialik?

  Hi, I'm Mayim Viallick.

• 0:05Jonathan Cohen?

  And I'm Jonathan Cohen.

• 0:06Mayim Bialik?

  And welcome to part two of our conversation with cognitive neuroscientist Dr. Julia Mossbridge. She's the Human Potential Research Lead for the telepathy tapes and also an affiliate professor in the Department of Biophysics and Physics at the University of San Diego. We're going to be talking about her disclosure, a series of experiments that she's never talked about, that she participated in against her will when she was a child. And we're going to talk about the impact of that on her research and her sense of well-being. But where episode two is going to start off is with a very, very fascinating, remote-viewing exercise that Julia is going to walk me through, the results of which we will reveal at the end of this episode.

• 0:49Jonathan Cohen?

  We are also going to explore how Julia is potentially proving that telepathy is real with unbelievable experiments done in conjunction with the telepathy tapes.

• 1:00Mayim Bialik?

  Make sure to join us over on Substack for more on this conversation and so many different aspects of things that we couldn't even cover in the episode. So please head over to Substack for content that is not released anywhere else. And here is part two of our conversation with Dr. Julia Mossbridge.

• 1:18Jonathan Cohen?

  Let's do the exercise, and when we come back from the exercise, we're going to ask you the difference between what is clearly observational in your mind, in terms of what you spotted with us, and what's different about psychic ability and how they may overlap.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  I think that will actually become clear in the exercise.

• 1:40Jonathan Cohen?

  Because I know everyone's excited to talk about that. They're also, if I'm looking at our list, which Mayim loves, talking about strategies to increase psychic ability and intuitive ability. We definitely want to touch on precognitive abilities. A lot of people listened to the first episode and started taking note of their dreams, so I think we should touch on that again. And however you want to touch on this, how the CIA, in your awareness, has used and developed psychic tools in the field, because people are fascinated that what has previously been seen as fringe actually has grown from inside government agencies.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  We could disentangle that. I love this. Okay, so our job, Jonathan, you and I, our job is to beam her love. Everything that Miami is doing is perfect, and she's doing the best she can.

• 2:37Mayim Bialik?

  And I'm supposed to not be self-conscious or judgmental of myself?

• 2:40Speaker 02

  No, because everything you're doing is perfect. So if you're self-conscious or judgmental, that's perfect. Go ahead and split the whiteboard in half with a line. What I'd like you to do on the right-hand side is to write the date, like on a piece of paper, like you're in school.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  And then just write your name, but not your actual name, Mayim Bialik, like on a school paper. You're gonna write your super-secret code name that comes to your mind right now.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  It's in Hebrew, so that's secret to many people. Your super-secret code name, fantastic. And then underneath that, I'd just like you to write, what are you afraid of right now? A word. It can be a code word, so other people don't have to know anything you're afraid of.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  Failure. Okay. When I'm helping people learn how to remote view, which is what we're gonna help you do with this exercise, it is common that I'm working with people who are trained in the same way I was trained, which is super-analytical, left-hemispheric, major focus on, you're gonna succeed, you're gonna be the top of the class, you're gonna do all the right things, and achieve, achieve, achieve. And this is, you know, I've worked with engineers and doctors and people who have done that, and they want to try to access something else. So the fact that you wrote down failure is so universal and beautiful, before I even told you that I was gonna ask you to remote view.

• 4:10Speaker 02

  And it makes me feel like you're being honest about what you're doing. So the right side is representing your left-hemispheric analysis side, the side that you were trained in and that you're very extremely good at. Okay, so we're gonna come back to the right side of that.

• 4:25Mayim Bialik?

  Okay.

• 4:26Speaker 02

  But now I want you to lean over, and on the top of the left side, so just go ahead and write 9324.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  And that's going to be like our address in information space for what we're about to ask you to remote view, okay? So what I want to ask you to do is imagine that inside of your body is your sensory system rather than outside. So the inside of your body is receiving information about, it's connected to the entire cosmos and it's connected to this information dimension that has all the information in the universe in it. So instead of coming through your eyes and your ears and your fingertips, it's coming really the inside. So it's like this juicy cosmic space inside of you. Okay. And when you're on the left side of that page, I'd just like you to write your intention for this remote viewing session.

• 5:20Speaker 02

  So it could be one word or two words, but drawing on that unconditional love that Jonathan and I are both sending you and the feeling that you have in relationship to God, what is your intention? Your intention is to receive. Okay, so now we're working on this side that is really representing your right hemisphere and is like gentle, connected, loving, supportive, intuitive. Okay? And there, wonderful, we're going to receive. And let's go right back, because I saw you look at the right-hand side. Let's look at that word, "failure." What can you do to decorate that word so that it is filled with love, so that the part of yourself that's afraid of failure can actually feel love right now?

• 6:05Speaker 02

  We're playing with the analytic side by decorating it.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  Ah, you made an anagram. Draw a picture of how you feel when you look at that word "owl fear" that you created out of failure. You said you have the feeling of transforming failure, but don't say any more words.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  Excellent, that's beautiful. So we have your intention to receive. We've transformed failure. So your analytic mind is actually working over there on that process. So we can tap into your intuitive mind and we can gently say, "Close your eyes for a second. Here comes the dog to help you out with some unconditional love. Thank you very much." Your intention to receive. Go ahead and just, whatever you see in your mind's eye, and it may be surprising to you, just something that shows up. And see if you could not label it with a word and not speak, but just draw. It could be the part of something that you don't understand what it is. Excellent, so you drew something.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  We're not going to label it, but you drew something that has a central area and some lobes around it. Wonderful, so now I'd like to ask you to let that go. And on the right-hand side, write the label that your analytic mind would give that picture. What would your analytic mind call that picture? And you wrote expansiveness. So now go back to the left side, and I'm going to ask you to close your eyes again. And ask you, what do you hear in your mind's ear? And then I'd like you to draw a picture of those sounds without using words. Okay, you drew a waveform.

• 8:06Speaker 02

  We are the nerdy ones, I totally would do that. Can you draw a picture of what the sound represents, or how the sound makes you feel that you hear in your mind's ear? So different from your physical ears, in your mind's ear, you might be hearing a sound. How does it make you feel? Draw a picture without using words. Did you draw a very small dot? Yeah. And then on the right-hand side, if you could write the word that explains that very small dot in an analytic sense, and maybe also explains the sound.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  Discrete existence. Beautiful, wonderful. So you have expansiveness and discrete existence juxtaposed in the right-hand side. That's really interesting. So one more picture on the left-hand side. I'd like you to consider imagining yourself in a garden. Someone comes up to you and hands you an object. It is not threatening. There's no problem with the object, but it's just an object. And if you could draw a picture without words of any aspect of that object? Excellent.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  And on the right-hand side, if you could write a word that your analytic mind would like to say about that object? It's a pyramidal prism. Beautiful. And that's separate light into rainbows. Yeah, those are beautiful. Thank you so much. So the end of our first-time remote viewing session exercise that actually relates to couples therapy, and I'll tell you how in a minute, is that you're on the bottom right, just to protect yourself and separate yourself out from sort of the infinite space of information. You just write unmorph, unmerge, unblend, like a mantra,

• 10:15Speaker 02

  in case you stray away from your discrete existence at any point. And then you just write "end of session" at the bottom of your page. End of session. And you're done.

• 10:36Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, so I don't understand what just happened. Why was that a remote viewing session?

• 10:41Speaker 02

  Because it's one way of doing remote viewing that gets like, it's not a full remote viewing session. It was like a taste. It's one way of doing remote viewing that gets to the strengths of the right and the left hemisphere. And our goal was to create some, an exercise that would allow you to, in your own mind, recognize the value of this left side of the board, which was run by the right hemisphere, which is the thing you devalue in Jonathan.

• 11:07Mayim Bialik?

  What I found interesting was there's a way to look and listen that most of us are not in touch with. Right? Whether it's, and a lot of, there's a lot of new research that I'm seeing about interoception, about the, the set of internal tracking systems that the nervous system has established. It's, you know, like, if you think of like, how do you know when you have to go to the bathroom? Like, of course, we say like, my bladder's full. That's actually not it. There's actually stretch receptors where the bladder's like, this means time to empty it, right? So there's an entire internal system. So this was kind of the, the mind's interoception. Right? To be able, and I pictured, I, you know, I love sensory systems just physiologically.

• 11:52Mayim Bialik?

  So I literally pictured it turning inside out. But it's so hard to think about something without naming it.

• 11:59Speaker 02

  Yes. And that separation allows you to appreciate, I kept forcing you to only do pictures on the left side, except for that very first time with the intention, because it's getting to know this part and then separating it out. And so recognizing the value of each.

• 12:15Mayim Bialik?

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• 13:43Mayim Bialik?

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• 13:46Speaker 02

  And so the question is, of course, how did you do? Before we move on, I would like to actually talk about what the target was. The first thing people do, especially good students, is they try to read the teacher's mind. So that's where Mayim will go. She'll go into my head. And the thing is, I don't know what the target was. I won't know until the future. I'll know when you both know. And so that's why I only work with precognitive remote viewing. In fact, this is my shirt from my team that I founded, OPRV Team Love, Operational Precognitive Remote Viewing Team Love. And the focus is on using love to get to a future answer to a question. We don't even know what the question is yet.

• 14:26Mayim Bialik?

  So one of the things that I, that came to me was I assumed that there was, you know, once we started going, some sort of target. When people do remote viewing, like when they do this, let's say when they're recruited, like we had Angela Ford on. They are given specific things like, "We need you to find this criminal." They're not just vaguely given like, "See what happens." But you're saying that some, "At some point in my life, I may come across a prism that is salmon-colored."

• 14:57Speaker 02

  So it's interesting because what I said was, "There is a target in the future." But when you try to go into my head, I don't know it because it's not the future yet. So none of us will know it. But then you interpret that as, "There's no target." And so this is a common, I did the same thing when I first started remote viewing as a good student. I'm like, "If it's not in your head, then it's..." Like, "That's where I would get the answer from, the teacher." If the teacher doesn't know the answer, then it doesn't exist. But the teacher knows the answer in the future, just when you know the answer. And that's true for people who are doing missing persons. That's true for anyone who's, you know, looking ahead in time to look at potential terrorist threats. The answer is in, if they start going to someone else's head for the answer, they're just going to give back whatever the bias is of the person who was just talking to them about this.

• 15:41Mayim Bialik?

  Well, right. And that's about, that is about statistical probability, right? So for example, if I'm, if I need to buy a couch, chances are, there's a small number of places I might find that couch. I could find it sitting on the street, but chances are, it's going to be in a furniture store, right? So with certain things, you can have some sort of precision.

• 16:04Speaker 02

  If you're a gifted remote viewer and you're doing remote viewing, the reason you're doing remote viewing for whomever you're doing it for, some defense contractor or intelligence agency or, you know, an investment banking firm, you're doing it because they've already used the analytic tools at their disposal and they know what is predicted by the past. And they're, so like, that information is already there. We have a lot of machine learning. We can figure out, like, "The pattern suggests that this." You're doing remote viewing because they want to find out if their prediction is any different from what is actually going to happen. So there's black swan events, for instance, that you can predict based on the past. And so if all you're doing is using the past analytic information to calculate it,

• 16:48Speaker 02

  why would you do remote viewing? So that's, that's why I'm really focused on... Future targets because you can answer useful questions like what would be the best form of climate mitigation in the in the climate crisis, right? Or what would be the best way to manage transition between different presidential administrations? You know, these kind of questions that would actually help people.

• 17:12Mayim Bialik?

  What's the difference between remote viewing and thinking?

• 17:15Speaker 02

  If you're a trained remote viewer who's trained to really both honor the intuitive and analytic sides of your mind and work them both at appropriate times, which is what we were doing in that exercise, you realize the value of both of them and you can use that in your thinking. You can use it in your writing, you can use it in your analysis, you can use it in your creativity. So it makes a better thinker.

• 17:37Jonathan Cohen?

  What I noticed is that there were two sides of the board, which are representing two sides of your brain. And one of those sides you were very comfortable with and the other side, which had a lot of unknown in it, you were uncomfortable.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  You literally said, I don't like the side of the board.

• 17:54Mayim Bialik?

  Well, yeah, and also I was using my dominant, I was using my right hand for both, which like switching hands is also another way to tap into.

• 18:02Speaker 02

  It can, but it's harder for people because then they'll say I'm using my wrong hand.

• 18:05Mayim Bialik?

  I'm pretty ambidextrous, but yes.

• 18:06Jonathan Cohen?

  So what I saw in this exercise, as it relates to the target, but also as it relates to how do people increase and take steps to increase their intuition, was that she was, you were asking her to spend more and more time in a side that had no boundaries, no guardrails.

• 18:24Speaker 02

  And no words.

• 18:25Jonathan Cohen?

  No words, really open-ended, and you were pushing her into a space that she was uncomfortable with and encouraging her to spend more time there.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  And when I saw that she was gonna break if she didn't write down a word, I would say, write down a word.

• 18:39Jonathan Cohen?

  So if I have to use the engineering side of my analytical mind, I'm seeing that there are these two sides of us. We want to be able to toggle back and forth because when we get something, we want to understand it, but we want to push and allow ourselves more time and space in the other side that is open, open-ended, vague, and we don't know what will happen and information will come to us because, as you said, we are all part of a collection of the entirety and therefore we may see a black swan event, we may see things that we would not otherwise be aware of because there is such an openness in that space.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  You would filter them out or turn them into a label? So that's why I said, I'm not going to call that a flower on the left. And then the word for it, I expected you to write was flower and you wrote expansiveness, which I was like, well, that's interesting. And so the words, we're so used to like, talk about trying to foreclose and fear of the unknown. We use words to say, you know, there's something, I see something that's sort of blue and there's this like, it's like, oh, it's a cup. And you, once you get to a cup, you don't realize that it's actually a missile silo.

• 19:52Mayim Bialik?

  There's a certain kind of sparkly glitter that reminds me of something from my childhood. I don't know what it is, but when I see it on a necklace, when I see it on a sweatshirt, it just brings up this feeling of like, huh, right? Like, what's that thing? Right? How, how, you can't even put it to words, which is why some of our greatest writers articulate, right? I mean, Nicole Kraus in The History of Love, she articulates so much about these dynamic things that are beyond description.

• 20:21Speaker 02

  But you said it right there, dynamic. And so when a, when a, when a director says to you, this is what I want from you in this moment, they're trying to use words to label an inside experience that cannot be labeled. And so if they are imprecise, it's because they cannot be precise. So when you say, okay, that's what you want, you have an internal picture, you have labeled it, and now you've failed because it's not going to be the same thing again and again.

• 20:45Mayim Bialik?

  Sometimes, and as an actor, I think a lot of actors have this experience, sometimes we'll bring something to a role, to a scene, that even the writer didn't imagine, but it's better than what they thought.

• 20:58Speaker 02

  I mean, that's why I don't use AI to write, is because like, the whole thing is these words that you're communicating, you don't even know what you're saying. And then later you go, oh, wow, okay, I said that. And so that, it's the discovery of that information that we normally filter out that can come through.

• 21:12Mayim Bialik?

  It's about identity. I mean, it really is, right? Who am I when I feel this thing?

• 21:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:17Jonathan Cohen?

  I used to script Doctor a lot, especially when I was right out of grad school. And my favorite thing was finding the unconscious breadcrumbs that the writer was leaving for himself or herself that they didn't know were in the story because they were like, the story would be, you know, 120 pages and I'll be like, oh, actually, the story is right here in these few pages that you were kind of working around, especially in an early draft.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  Yes, and even if, even a cherished manuscript, you know, I don't know, Charles Dickens, you know, that's lived forever, you can be like, oh, I get it. You're really trying to say this, but he may never have been conscious of that. Like, so just learning what, I feel like that's what reading is about. That's what experiencing art is about. It's about like, there's a message that's being sent quietly without words.

• 22:06Jonathan Cohen?

  You said something earlier in the episode, unconscious process from non-local sources.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 22:13Jonathan Cohen?

  It's understood that the brain is filtering and only processing. So if I'm in this room, I may be getting a lot of other information that I'm, you know, putting my blinders on in order to have this conversation with you, but...

• 22:24Speaker 02

  There's also non-local information.

• 22:26Jonathan Cohen?

  And you talked about from past, future. If I start to open my senses, what might I start to be aware of about all the information that is possible?

• 22:36Speaker 02

  It's kind of like an interesting question because you're asking, what might I become aware of? You're saying, is something else going to join the movie now that I have this capacity? And what I'm saying is, remote viewing is a trick to get at the things you're not aware of, and you may never be aware of the relationship between what you experienced and what the target is. And in fact, when people are doing remote viewing in situations where they really can't know the target because it's for national security reasons or whatever, they often never know about the relationship between what that non-local information is and what the target was. And so it's not about what you're aware of. It's about what you receive, your word receive. Beautiful.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  It's about what you receive and getting the raw data and not necessarily even bringing that into your conscious story about the universe. And then that's protective because this is a real thing. And people's minds can really do this. And it can actually protect you to not have to really understand what it is that you received. Because if it's about, you know, a horrible bombing or something, wouldn't it be nice to just be like, I drew a flower? Right? So, and then they said, thank you.

• 23:50Jonathan Cohen?

  Well, the reason I ask is because I like to figure out how things work. And then I also like to try to make things practical for people in their everyday lives. Some people will remote view and have information. Other people may start to use the same tools and principles to help them be more aware of things that they have suppressed, that they have hidden from themselves.

• 24:12Speaker 02

  You can use a tool like this, which is essentially having the hidden part, which is generally our right hemisphere, which doesn't generally have a voice, giving the hidden part a chance to reveal what it's hiding, which is a lot of information. This is the part that accesses all the information in the universe and only reveals what's necessary for us.

• 24:31Mayim Bialik?

  Keep in mind Jill Bolte Taylor, when she had her stroke, became one with this portal, this book. It's very digestible, like you give us just a little bit and then the chapter's over. And I, with each chapter, I was like, oh, I get to breathe because it's a lot. It's a lot of information. So what's also interesting is, you know, it's not until a good five, six through the book that we kind of get to a very specific conversation that the rest of the book was preparing us for.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  It turns out, although frankly, I didn't know that.

• 25:08Mayim Bialik?

  This is a book that Like the never-ending story, deep cut. It writes itself as you're reading it. Because I believe that it wrote itself as you wrote it. So there's like a lot there. You use images that we don't really fully understand until later in the book.

• 25:27Speaker 02

  Well, and then we still don't.

• 25:29Mayim Bialik?

  We don't even have a framework for what these symbols are that you're using throughout the book. And I would say this, you know, it feels like a memoir. You know, it's called Have a Nice Disclosure, but in some ways, it's a very beautiful little memoir. Right? So I want you, though, to be kind of explicit with us about some of the things that you started to realize you did not realize from when you were a child.

• 25:55Jonathan Cohen?

  I love this, and I think it speaks to one of the questions that I was holding, which is this difference between your aware part, which is just observational, informed by how you were brought up, and your psychic part. And I think the story about what you disclose to yourself may tie into explaining to people, what does that mean to have those abilities? And how do you harness them?

• 26:24Speaker 02

  It's interesting. This is a case in which I had many of the memories that I talk about at the end of that book in the SOAR gate section. But I wasn't, I didn't understand them. I didn't have them as a picture that made sense. So the basic story is super simple. There was a program called SOAR, S-O-A-R. It was a gifted and talented program that I was in, in my seventh grade, which was back in 1981, 1982.

• 26:50Mayim Bialik?

  And you grew up?

• 26:51Speaker 02

  In Libertyville, Illinois. This was at Butterfield School. And I was tested, I knew I had been tested since I was in first grade because I kept acing all the tests and... So I knew they had their eye on me. And then in this class, it was, there was a lot more of that.

• 27:08Mayim Bialik?

  Were they testing lots of kids? Or were you aware of somehow being different and singled out that way?

• 27:14Speaker 02

  They were testing lots of kids. And then after they tested them, then they would single you out. So I was one of the singled out.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  And I, as I talk about this, I'm very aware that like gifted and talented programs are very important. People who went to public schools did not have the same protection as people who went to private schools. And so they're, they're, they get money from the government. And so there can be government programs in public schools, especially when the parents are, you know, in a situation where they're not paying attention or they've got other things going on. That can, that can definitely be a problem. And so my, but I'm just, that's my little editorializing. I had all these things happen in this gifted and talented program. Some were really great, like we got to write our own books. That was cool. Now we had cool field trips. Some were really weird and I sort of just ignored them for a long time.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  But as I'm writing this book, I just realized I had to talk about it. And the weird things were things like we had quote unquote, hearing tests that were not hearing tests. So I ended up getting my PhD in a psychoacoustics lab. I know what a hearing test is. Looking back, these were not hearing tests. We also had them every week. And it's not like we were next to our firing range and they were concerned about hearing loss.

• 28:26Mayim Bialik?

  Were they testing?

• 28:26Speaker 02

  They weren't, they weren't testing our hearing. They gave us these sounds over these headphones that were like, really high pitched. I can't imitate it because it was so high pitched, especially our left ears.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  And they would, they would always do it in pairs. At least that was my memory. They would bring you and another person. Do you remember this?

• 28:47Mayim Bialik?

  I remember testing. I mean, I was, yeah, I was born in 75, so.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  Okay, this kind of test was like, listen to these tones. What do you feel? Listen to these tones. What are you thinking?

• 29:01Speaker 02

  Did you remember those kind of tests?

• 29:02Mayim Bialik?

  No.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it was kind of Monroe Institute-y, sort of weird sounds, how do they have to relate to cognition?

• 29:09Mayim Bialik?

  Also, what does a seventh grader say?

• 29:12Speaker 02

  So when I started thinking back on that, I was like, okay, I started thinking back on that in the end of 2024, so a year ago.

• 29:21Speaker 02

  And I asked my mom about it. Because I was like, hey, there was this weird program where they did these weird hearing tests, you know, it was a gifted program, you know? And she said, oh, yeah, they were studying you. Like, apropos of nothing, they were studying you. I'm like, who's they? She goes, I don't know, the CIA? I'm like, just because she said CIA doesn't mean it's CIA. That's just what people think.

• 29:41Mayim Bialik?

  Sure. Well, that's the catch-all for the man.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, right. And unfortunately, the poor intelligence community has to deal with the fact that everyone thinks the CIA is evil. And they have done evil things. So like, I get it. But it's also the case where they have to work really hard.

• 29:54Mayim Bialik?

  They also do a lot of secret things that they can never admit.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  And they are, and they try to avoid war. And so I think that's pretty cool, if you ask me. But, but anyway, that's what she said. And I was like, well, that's interesting. So I had applied for a job in the federal government. And I, in the job description, it said, go get, you know, all, all of your transcripts. And so I'm a good girl. And so I'm like, all my transcripts? Okay, I'll go back to my grade school. And I got that. I'm sure no one does that, but I did. And I get my transcript and all eight years from first to eighth grade at Butterfield School in Libertyville, Illinois, were redacted. We're in the comments section, redacted. Someone had redacted my transcripts from me. And I wrote them and I said, was this, um, like, what? And they said, that's how we found it. We don't know why it's like that.

• 30:41Mayim Bialik?

  Also, you have your, your first grade report card from 1976. You have it in the book and then this redacted electronic copy.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you can see that the redaction was actually done with cardboard because there's, it's at an angle.

• 30:55Mayim Bialik?

  They just put a piece of paper over it.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, which is the old way to do redaction and takes a lot of work.

• 31:01Mayim Bialik?

  Redaction is a fancy word for hiding.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  It's, yeah, it's censoring. It's censorship. So I cannot have access, apparently, to my, so luckily, my mom had kept my, at least my first grade report card. So anyway, that was interesting.

• 31:13Jonathan Cohen?

  The one she kept was not redacted?

• 31:15Speaker 02

  No, no. So the one she kept was from first grade. They never redacted their comments. That's where they would have written about this program.

• 31:22Jonathan Cohen?

  And was there anything in that first grade report card that? Raised any suspicion?

• 31:29Speaker 02

  It's just that it said I was reading at like a fifth grade level and that I'm a good storyteller and blah, blah, blah. So they took that out. Um, but I think it was just all redacted, like every year. So I don't think they necessarily read it. I think someone decided to do that. Now, it could be that there was a law that all of those had to be redacted for-

• 31:47Jonathan Cohen?

  Anyone who was being tested.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  Maybe, or some, I don't know. I make up stories to make this sound normal, but it's not normal. So I don't know what to say. The other thing that they would do is every week I would meet with my counselor. Now, I was a really good student. I had no behavior issues. I was getting straight pluses, which is the old term, right? Like, that was the, like, word open school term for A's. Teachers loved me. I was always good. But I had a counselor for some reason, not clear why. And when I would go see her every week, and sometimes I saw her and a, and a man, I would walk down, I would dread walking to her office. I would, I could see the lockers on my right. I could see, go past the office, go to this

• 32:29Speaker 02

  weird part of the building, take a left into this area, take another right, and that's the room where I met them. As soon as I closed the door, I don't remember a single thing that ever happened. And then I leave, and now I remember things again, and I go back to my classroom. So I can still, you know, I'm 56 years old. Back then, what, I was 12 years old. I can remember the pathway and just dreading that whole thing. And I can remember that I didn't remember.

• 32:53Mayim Bialik?

  Now, I, I also want to say, you know, 12 years old, I mean, a lot of us remember things that happened when we're 12. This is not like, oh, these are toddler memories and like, oh, you're gonna, like, the implication that some might make is like, they were stealing your memory and giving you drugs and blacking out. It's also possible that whatever was happening, you did not want to remember.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  I think it's very likely. I, I know I have a gift. Um, when someone, where I see a movie that's too traumatic and I, I won't watch certain movies. Um, or if someone's telling me something that's traumatic, I, I often forget it. So I, I know that that's, that I would like to not be traumatized. And so I just, so actually, this is so, I didn't put this in the book, but I'll just tell a bunch of millions of people who are watching. I, I talked with the UFO community. I said, there's, you know, you've got to have someone who does past life regressions or, or this life regressions to help me figure out what a blocked memory is. And they said, we do, we do. And here's this person, she's really wonderful, et cetera. And so I said, great, I'm gonna work with her. So I, I told her, you know, I want to unblock whatever happened.

• 33:54Speaker 02

  And she said, great. And we had an appointment the day before the appointment. She texts me, she says, I'm sorry, I can't, I can't do the regression because I have emergency dental surgery. And I said, okay, well, can we reschedule? She said, no, because I will have emergency dental surgery at any time you would like to do this, which was her way of saying, I can't do this regression. What? Yes. I know these things happen to me and they've been happening like- Well, can we try a different one? Jonathan will do one right now. Lay it on the ground.

• 34:25Jonathan Cohen?

  You said that you're making narratives to fill the holes here, but someone who, does she have a connection to the intelligence world?

• 34:36Speaker 02

  I have no idea. After that, I backed away and I thought, maybe she knows about something really traumatic and maybe it's better if I don't know what happened in that frigging room.

• 34:44Jonathan Cohen?

  But who got to her?

• 34:45Mayim Bialik?

  Jonathan is saying that what he hears, which is a possible interpretation, is that this woman is saying, someone came and told me, do not do a reading for Mossbridge. She has information we don't want to get out. What we're saying is that this woman perceived that anytime she tries to dip into Julia, she's going to be pulled away and pulled out of it.

• 35:09Speaker 02

  And that it would be unsafe for me. I think she was giving me a message that it would be unsafe for me.

• 35:14Jonathan Cohen?

  There are two versions of this. One is that there is some system of control that organized the tests. What was being played on those audio recordings? Because one version of this is that there's an organization designing these tests. Why would they use students? Because students don't have the depth and development of the analytical side. But also what they're trying to do is use someone who may have a larger access to that non-rational side, that non-analytical side, and they're just going to feed them information. And from their perspective, it may be the richest source of data because you're young

• 35:56Jonathan Cohen?

  enough not to have blocked out the intuitive side and you're old enough to not be so vulnerable that you're an eight, nine-year-old.

• 36:04Speaker 02

  I understand. I understand. I'm not saying that that's not the case. In fact, I think that is the case, especially given some of the follow-up cognitive testing that was done with me. And some of the coincidental relationship between the timing of my filing a FOIA request and getting a progressing in a job offer for the federal government. So like, all those things totally support that interpretation. And I also hold in my mind, and I think it's important, especially for you, who, let's, let's be with the unknown a little bit. I also hold in my mind that people do different things for all sorts of different reasons. And when you're a person whose mind has been surveilled, essentially, which mind, mind

• 36:47Speaker 02

  has been through much of my life, it appears, because you're interesting in some kind of way, you have some kind of capacity, there can be positive and negative motivations to do that. And the motivations that I really respect are the positive ones that are about taking care, like, take care, take care. And that's what I felt from that woman who said, I'm going to have emergency medical surgery, was, take care. And that felt not like, oh, someone got to her, maybe, maybe someone did, and she was responding in this really responsible way. But to me, the way it felt to me was, there's danger going into those waters, maybe consider not going into the-

• 37:26Mayim Bialik?

  That's protection.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  It felt protection.

• 37:28Mayim Bialik?

  And the, the, the other thing also, and I think this is something, and, you know, you deal with this very clinically, you know, in the book. Let's just take the one example you gave of it. You know, that sound, right? And they're asking, what do you feel, what do you? Let's also keep in mind, that may not have been a mind control experiment, it could have been an opening to see which kids talk deeply, which kids have an active imagination. It could literally have been a stimulus, keep us going down this road. So this is seventh grade.

• 38:02Speaker 02

  This is seventh grade, and we also have this weird pink drink, that's kind of viscous that we're supposed to drink, that they tell us is fluoride or antibiotics sometimes.

• 38:09Mayim Bialik?

  Have you talked to other kids from your school?

• 38:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, so some of the kids, so one of my, my best friend in junior high was also in this program. And she and I, like, spent the summer of 84 together, talking and stuff, but she had a different experience, she wasn't, she doesn't remember the hearing test, she doesn't. So I think different kids were selected. For different reasons. I mean, I have a complex situation with my father working for Department of Energy. My mother, I think, was recruited to University of Chicago from a very poor family. And her parents worked in a uranium mining facility in Denver. I started to put together the clues, and that's what this book gave me, was I started to put together the clues of, and then this one dream I had, that led me to a phone

• 38:52Speaker 02

  number of a radioactive, like a government agency that examines people for the effects of radioactivity. And then I found this document from 1978, a memo that sets out the government's desire and the necessity for studying the effects of radiation, ionizing and non-ionizing, in humans. And so that's where my dream took me. And so this whole, and then this book, writing this book, took me to this process of, I have to say these things out loud. I have to piece them together and do a little more research. And when I do a little more research, I start to go, oh, maybe this has something to do with when I was taking

• 39:33Speaker 02

  a test on 23andMe. And it was something like an 18-month or two-year longitudinal study. And they are asking me questions, like I signed up to do, about my medical history. They asked me questions about, you know, they had me do these cool tasks, which turned out to be kind of like they could be psychic tasks. And they are asking me questions about what I ate recently and stuff. But they asked me two questions that were so personal. Two questions. First was, in your twenties, did you have, were you diagnosed with a ganglion cyst on your ankle? Excuse me? In your twenties, were you diagnosed with a ganglion cyst on your ankle? Which the answer was yes, but also like, what? Because you can't get ganglion cysts from

• 40:14Speaker 02

  DNA, nor can you get the location, at that point, anyway. Then the next question, which happened a little time later, was, were you recently diagnosed with a torn rotator cuff?

• 40:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, now that also you can't get it from DNA or anything.

• 40:29Mayim Bialik?

  Well, I mean, people of a certain age. Again, I'm just running stats here.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  And they weren't asking any other specific questions. And the other ones were like, have you had any stomach aches? You know, da, da, da, like just general anxiety questions, right? The reason they couldn't get it from my medical records is I did have a torn road cleft cuff, in fact, in both shoulders. I don't know how I got it. I woke up with them. And I never went to see the doctor because I was like, screw it. All they're gonna do is give me a cortisone shot.

• 40:54Jonathan Cohen?

  Tell us about the pink drink.

• 40:56Speaker 02

  It was chalky, like contrast. Actually, I hadn't thought of it like contrast until now. That's interesting. Um, anyway, my memory, my logical memory says I must, I don't see, the problem is I remember the drink and I remember the taste of it. So there's, there's just missing chunks of what happened with that drink. And what happened after that drink?

• 41:17Mayim Bialik?

  Did this go on through junior high, through high school?

• 41:19Speaker 02

  Uh, not explicitly, not explicitly. I wasn't like told I was in a program, you know, obviously I was in all the AP classes and all that. But like, um, no, nothing explicit until, um, until after that, when I was in college and I had another memory loss experience where I remember losing memory. But before I even go into that, I want to say about this pink drink. I'm not the only one who remembers this. So when you say it was the seventies, I gotta say, it's also the eighties, the nineties and the aughts. And so in the eighties, nineties and aughts, there are people who are taken out of gifted and talented programs. The pink drink resonates, the weird hearing test that weren't hearing tests resonate.

• 41:58Mayim Bialik?

  This person grew up in north central Ohio in the 1980s. Anyone here remember a weird routine in elementary school called swish? You'd get a paper cup of pink fluoride to swish around in your mouth for a minute. Someone said, I keep waiting for my superhero powers to kick in. Someone said, if you grew up in a community without city water, this was how they gave fluoride to kids.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  Well, we had city water, not at our house. But, um, anyway, this was drink that was viscous. Now, you don't have to, you don't have to have viscosity with, with fluoride. So that's the piece that's, anyway. So as I'm getting older, in college, I took some time off of school to go sort out my life and be with a friend who had graduated and I went to Palo Alto. And then in my mind, I have this experience, a two-pronged experience. One experience is my dad tells me, I needed a job because, you know, not from an independently wealthy family. So my dad tells me, "Oh, go talk to my friend at Lockheed Martin," or this person I know,

• 43:01Speaker 02

  "they need, you know, a word processing person and you know how to do that stuff." And then the other part of my mind says, "No, I saw an ad in the newspaper." So I don't, memory recall not great on that. So anyway, I go to Lockheed Martin Palo Alto, or East Palo Alto, I forget where it is. And here's what I remember from that day. I walk in, I applied for the job, they give it to me immediately, like, weirdly, that feels weird to me. I'm having a conversation with the guy who's giving me the job and he's kind of avuncular and sort of like, "Great, you'll type letters and do word processing." And I have this experience of behind me, there's this weird equipment, but I don't remember it, but I have the experience of it. I can see through the window, I can see, in my mind's eye, I'm saying, "I can see the

• 43:46Speaker 02

  cars, it's on the first floor, the guy's desk, I can see all that." And then what I can see is the end of the day, that's the next thing I can see, where I'm shaking and crying and I'm typing on the little word processor, letter, and I go into his office and I say, "I have to leave, I can't do this." And he tells me, he thinks I would be a great asset to Lockheed Martin. Why? Why would he say that a 20-year-old who's taking time off of school to go live with a friend, to word process, is going to be a great asset to Lockheed Martin after one day? And I can't, and I'm aware of not remembering the rest of the day. I'm just shaking and crying, which is not something that I had ever done before. So that's, and the fact that I was shaking here in your studio earlier, it just brings

• 44:30Speaker 02

  back that feeling of like, there's something there.

• 44:34Mayim Bialik?

  What did it mean to, you know, come out of the closet in a way with this book? You have a, you know, a beautiful academic life. You've written wonderful book, like you're, you know, you're, you know, you're like the lead on telepathy tapes. Research like you're, you've got this incredible life. And not that this is not incredible, but I'm curious what it felt like because I think a lot of people, and you do talk about especially with sexual identity, with gender identity. A lot of that is what we think of when we think of disclosure, right? Or if we talk about the government revealing secrets about aliens, we talk about disclosure. What does this kind of disclosure do for you? What does it feel like?

• 45:18Mayim Bialik?

  And what might you say to people who might be holding something or who are curious what they're holding?

• 45:25Speaker 02

  It makes me scared. It also makes me proud. It makes me feel whole. It makes me feel loved and feel loved. All of those things I want. So all of those, all of those are in there. The fear is, and then I've managed the fear, like I'm aware of the fear. Like when I talked about me shaking, like I'm aware of the fear. The fear is largely twofold. One is the paranoid fear of like, it's a conspiracy and Lockhart Martin is going to come kill me, right, which I don't think is going to happen. The other is the underlying fear, which is, do I really think I count enough? For this to be true? Am I being grandiose?

• 46:10Speaker 02

  Right? And I finally let myself say, look, it's objectively true that I have an interesting mind. It's objectively true. I've had my psychic capacities measured by people other than myself. I know that I am decent as a psychic. I also know that I'm very good as an analyst and that I'm very creative as a scientist. And this makes me very interesting. And it's okay to just notice those things and say, yeah, it is not that I'm that important, it's that I'm that interesting. And that that interest makes sense. I would be interested in a mind like mine.

• 46:45Mayim Bialik?

  If you had to give your best guess as to what might have been happening, what is your best guess?

• 46:52Speaker 02

  So my best guess is that intelligence and defense in the US realized they needed to study the effects of radiation because there was more and more radiation, not only from World War II and children whose parents had been exposed to radiation, not only from World War II and from all the nuclear testing, et cetera, but from electromagnetic radiation, from computer screens, from cell phones, I mean, mobile phones before, right, before the smartphone. So there was a mass recognition that our humanity, and particularly people in our country, were going to be exposed to radiation in everything, right? Like, you

• 47:36Speaker 02

  can't have this background of nuclear testing, et cetera, and not have that be the case. So what's that going to be like?

• 47:44Speaker 02

  And I don't know if that pink drink was an amnesic or what, if it was mixed with some kind of iodine to help protect us from radiation, or if it was a little bit of radiation to see if a little bit of radiation could cause psychic capacities. Like, I put myself in the position of people who were under, like, it was a national emergency to figure this out, apparently, according to that memo. What would you do to do that? And how would you do that and keep it secret and yet try to maybe do it in an ethical way? I don't see a lot of evidence that there was a lot of attention paid to the ethical part, but it seems like you would be trying, I think it's good intentioned people, trying to answer a call to do something that was very important.

• 48:25Mayim Bialik?

  Can you explain, just for people who may not know, what happens, for example, with radiation poisoning? Meaning, what's the information that they're trying to get? And are we seeing things in our lives, in our bodies, in our physiology that might actually be reflecting that we are impacted in a way that might have been curious to the government?

• 48:46Speaker 02

  I don't have any idea to the answer to that. I think that I almost avoid any information about that.

• 48:55Speaker 02

  I almost, because I feel like, well, I mean, certainly cancer.

• 48:59Mayim Bialik?

  Well, and we also know that there's more spontaneous mutations younger and younger in people's DNA that is leading to a lot of things, which could be many reasons. It doesn't have to just be radiation.

• 49:09Jonathan Cohen?

  With a spike correlated to the fact that we're now all carrying cell phones with us everywhere we go and we're spending five to six hours a day with it in front of us.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  You don't have to be like, have a security clearance to know that we have more radiation, both ionizing and non-ionizing in our world than we did, you know, 100 years ago.

• 49:28Mayim Bialik?

  Where do we get exposed to radiation?

• 49:30Speaker 02

  I mean, so first of all, there's natural radiation. So we're getting exposed to radiation where is everywhere. Everywhere where you can go on the planet and then when you go to space, you get more. When you fly, you get more. You know, you're not as protected by our amazing magnetosphere.

• 49:43Mayim Bialik?

  Can you explain to people where they may not even realize that they're being exposed to radiation? And we're not saying like, don't do this, don't do that. But some people may have no idea how this even is relevant to their life.

• 49:53Speaker 02

  Right. And there may be benefits. So there may be benefits. Microwaves from your cell phone and your wifi works on radio frequency, any kind of radio frequency that's out there. There's people who explicitly use radio frequencies to injure other people. So you might get exposed to that and become paranoid about that after I just said that. But most of the time it's people just being in like, what, an x-ray? You walk through the TSA thing. So what we have to figure out, of course, is...

• 50:23Jonathan Cohen?

  What's the tipping point?

• 50:24Speaker 02

  What's the tipping point? And what is, what do we mean by the tipping point? And this comes back to neurodiversity and neurodivergence is like, is it acceptable if a tipping point is to create more psychic people?

• 50:34Jonathan Cohen?

  Is radiation creating psychic people?

• 50:36Speaker 02

  So I have no idea, but maybe that's one of the questions that might be asked. Right? Is it more acceptable if radiation creates more people who can't speak, but they can communicate with spelling? Is that acceptable? What is the acceptable risk? I don't, again, I'm not saying that these things are true. I'm asking questions that I think probably other people are asking.

• 50:55Jonathan Cohen?

  So you say that there are people using radio frequency to harm people? How is that happening?

• 51:00Speaker 02

  Since the 50s, um, you know, that's like, that's a kind of, it's called like a directed energy weapon and you can use radio frequency as part of electronic warfare. So, um, people can use that. To make you feel like, like a heat on one side of your body, or Yeah, what, where is it coming from? Well, I don't know where it's coming from, and maybe that's classified. But I mean, people can do this whether with like, I don't know, on the ground with a beam or something.

• 51:27Mayim Bialik?

  Can you clarify a little bit about what the CIA is doing, isn't doing, or might be doing?

• 51:33Speaker 02

  No, but what I can clarify, not at all, not at all, not because I'm part of the CIA and I have to be secretive, but because I don't know, because I am not part of the CIA.

• 51:42Mayim Bialik?

  And if you were, you also would have to say you don't know.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  It's true, but also I think we have to remember, so I hang out with a lot of people in the intelligence community, and I collaborate with them to try to make the intelligence community not a shitty place. And these are people I highly respect, who have either been involved in CIA or

• 52:04Speaker 02

  or are involved in related, there's like something like 16 or 18 intelligence agencies. So I really like them, I highly respect them. In fact, I invited them to my house for a book launch party and gave them a copy, each a copy of the book, maybe as a protective maneuver, but also, but also because they really get it that the, that the country might, what I want to say is, there are some really good people in these agencies that are being dissed all the time, who are trying to do, when I say the right thing, I mean, like, really the right thing. Like, they have lawyers who are incredibly ethical and say like, well, first of all, CIA shouldn't be involved in any kind of work like this in the United States. That's illegal, by the way.

• 52:46Speaker 02

  And so if anyone represents themselves as someone who's from the CIA, or I used to work at CIA, or, you know, they're what they, to you, in order to try to, for instance, work with your child who's a non-speaker, or gain access to your, you know, gifted child and give them a pink drink, you know? They're using the mystique and the fear that people have about the intelligence community to mess with you and to gain access. And that is unacceptable to both the intelligence community and, you know, to the rest of the world. Like, that's not okay. And that should be called out, and people need to not be afraid of that BS. That's nuts. And there's this amazing documentary people need to hear about, which is, will be coming

• 53:30Speaker 02

  out next year. The power, the power we have, or something like that, I can get it to you. But it's these women called Iron Butterfly, who have been in the intelligence community and who are calling out the power of women in the intelligence community to be moral, ethical guideposts for what is done. And I feel like people need to know about that before they go slamming, you know, whole agencies that are really huge.

• 53:54Jonathan Cohen?

  When did you first discover that you had intuitive or psychic abilities?

• 53:58Speaker 02

  When I was a kid. I was like seven, like first grade. I started having dreams about things that would happen on the playground, and I started keeping my journal. Because I had parents who were, we would talk about dreams at the, at the breakfast table. And of course, like, as everyone does. I would say like, oh, I dreamt this, and then, you know, that would happen or something. And so then I started keeping a dream journal because I wanted to make sure I wasn't having a false memory.

• 54:28Jonathan Cohen?

  But like, what things would be coming true on the playground? Like?

• 54:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, my very first precognitive dream that convinced me that we didn't understand time. And that was, um, my particular friend, Eushane, would lose her watch on the playground. That was the dream. So three components, very specific. Eushane would lose her watch on the playground. Oh, at recess, but I mean, we were only on the playground at recess, so that doesn't count. So three things that were independent and specific, and then the next day that happened.

• 54:57Jonathan Cohen?

  And she hadn't lost her watch before?

• 54:59Speaker 02

  No, she, her father had just given her the watch the day before.

• 55:02Jonathan Cohen?

  Wow.

• 55:03Mayim Bialik?

  But why would you, right? Like, that's not something that like, a kid would dream about, like, I'm gonna dream that my friend's gonna lose her, like, it's not something that you would think necessarily would...

• 55:13Speaker 02

  And that's, and I knew that as a kid. I'm like, this is too precise. I have to find out what's going on with time.

• 55:18Jonathan Cohen?

  What was the next step in that evolution?

• 55:21Mayim Bialik?

  Then she drank the pink liquid, her mothers were lesbians, and she got a PhD.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  I love, I'm like...

• 55:27Mayim Bialik?

  And then she saw the vagina monologues, which she really likes.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  I think this show should be an album.

• 55:33Jonathan Cohen?

  Potentially, this is like in the movie, this is the inciting incident where you, all of a sudden, a spark is cast in this young child who says, "There's something going on here." Where I close my eyes and I see the future. How does that go into, like, how does that develop? What next steps happen there?

• 55:51Mayim Bialik?

  Did you continue to have these dreams? Did you, did you see other psychic abilities develop? Did you broaden your sort of toolbox of sci-phenomenon abilities?

• 56:02Speaker 02

  I didn't think about it as sci-phenomenon. I had a, I had a human brain coloring book. Do you remember that one?

• 56:08Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, I mean, I used it through grad school, yeah.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  Yes, right. And I had that. And so I would color it and think about the brain and try to under. I was always this left, right-sided, sort of center-brain person, but I could do really well with both sides. And so I would always try to use the one to understand the other. So I would go back and forth. So when I first started out my scientific career, I was at Oberlin and I was like, "I'm going to be a neuroscience major." And I just want to understand the brain. And I didn't even think about all this other stuff, these experiences. I would have them at the same time, but I sort of discounted them or didn't think of them. I just kind of had to go in one, like we did with the exercise. I had to go in one area at a time. And then polish that and then move to the other area. So after college, I go to graduate school. I'm at UC San Francisco in the neuroscience PhD program. And it's very linear, it's very left-brain.

• 56:55Speaker 02

  And I like completely rebelled. And I was like, "Wait a minute. What about like psychic stuff and consciousness and dreams?" And they're like, "Would you like to ruin your career and study those things? Have at it. Go away." You know? I mean, there were very nice people there. But definitely like, "You're going to have to do this somewhere else." So then I left and I went, after my masters, and went to Northwestern and met some people there after my PhD who were really interested in studying the psychic stuff. And then did my postdoc with that group of people. So it's just a back and forth of trying to work with each of these sides and integrate them so I can understand them.

• 57:34Jonathan Cohen?

  When you were working on the, in the analytical side, did you have less precognitive dreams than when you switched?

• 57:44Speaker 02

  Yes, this is something you brought up about also the idea that people, like we had talked about CIA or whatever, but I think we should talk about that again, about people's impression that if you're working with one side of your brain, like if you're super analytical, you won't have the experience of the other side. You almost suppress it. And in some cases, I think that's true. I think for me, it's like it had its own plan. And this is the hidden part. So the hid, back to the hidden part. The hidden part said, I'm going to show up. And I'm going to show up when you're being too frou frou and woo woo. And I'm going to make you get more analytical. And I'm going to show up when you're being too analytical.

• 58:27Speaker 02

  And I'm going to remind you that you're connected to the rest of the universe. And so it feels like my hidden part does both parts. So that's why I don't associate it completely with the right hemisphere. It's really, it's really this underlying, it's a mind thing. It's not a brain thing, right?

• 58:43Jonathan Cohen?

  If you had advice to anyone who is either having intuitive experiences, but may not be able to understand them fully, or they don't feel grounded and incorporated in their lives, or someone who wants to sort of open up their ability to have intuition guide their lives, right? Like, we make so many decisions all the time, often without all the data. What would you say to someone who is trying to increase their ability to navigate this world from an intuitive sense?

• 59:12Speaker 02

  Start with a relationship with God. And you could call God unconditional love. You can call God the universe, whatever source, or God, or whatever name you have. Start with a relationship with God so you feel protected, whole, and loved. And then, everything will just happen. Like, that's where it starts.

• 59:30Jonathan Cohen?

  And the reason being that when you don't feel protected, you're going to assume bad things are gonna happen, and therefore, you're going to bias your intuition towards either being blocked, stuck, unclear, or moving you towards those negative outcomes?

• 59:44Speaker 02

  Well, or you won't listen to your intuition because it just doesn't have a voice, because it's the scary unknown, and you don't feel protected.

• 59:52Jonathan Cohen?

  Do you have to sit in the scary unknown in order to have intuition?

• 59:55Speaker 02

  It doesn't have to be scary.

• 59:56Jonathan Cohen?

  But it has to be unknown?

• 59:58Speaker 02

  But it has to be unknown.

• 1:00:00Jonathan Cohen?

  Beautiful.

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  There's two things we need to do before the end of this podcast. One is to talk about what I'm doing with the non-speaking autistic students that I've been studying in relationship with the telepathy tapes, thanks to Kai Dickens, who introduced me to many of the people on my team. But two, we need to get your target. You still haven't seen the target for your remote viewing.

• 1:00:24Mayim Bialik?

  It's in the future.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  Oh, but we are gonna make that future now.

• 1:00:26Mayim Bialik?

  The future's now?

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:28Jonathan Cohen?

  The future's always now.

• 1:00:29Speaker 02

  So Jonathan, do you have photos on your laptop? Or on your phone?

• 1:00:34Jonathan Cohen?

  On my phone, yeah.

• 1:00:34Speaker 02

  Okay, great. Pick a number between one and 10.

• 1:00:37Mayim Bialik?

  Pick a number between one and 10?

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:00:38Mayim Bialik?

  Seven.

• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  Okay. Jonathan, open your photos. Look at all photos.

• 1:00:42Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:43Speaker 02

  And then find the seventh photo. Okay, now, show that to Mayim, and we're all gonna send her love, because this is the target.

• 1:00:54Speaker 02

  So why is this the target? This is the essence of it, intention. I intended, without speaking, that the target was gonna be the X number that you picked, photo, that photo slash video that's on your phone. So let's look at the board again.

• 1:01:09Mayim Bialik?

  Let's do it.

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  Because this is... What do we see that's similar? And what do we see that's different about what you have on the board? So, use your analytic brain to say, what is similar, and then what is different?

• 1:01:21Mayim Bialik?

  And I can make up whatever associations I would like, right now?

• 1:01:25Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:01:26Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, the first thing I thought of is I had forgotten this dog's name was Peaches. But when I pictured that prism, I described the color as salmon. But when he said peaches, I was like, it's that kind of color. It's like that pinkish-orange. It's almost like Valerie's hair, which is, you know, also kind of like that sherberty. I thought of that.

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  What about the sound?

• 1:01:50Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, there was something kind of staticky, but also it didn't have variation.

• 1:01:57Speaker 02

  Like a white noise.

• 1:01:58Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, exactly. It was my mind's ears version of discreet. Yeah, white noise like that. There is something about the shape that they're taking that feels paramital. Like, there's something about the way that they're laying together a couple times.

• 1:02:16Speaker 02

  Oftentimes, when people first do a remote viewing, when they're trying to indicate outside, they will draw a flower. That's just an indication of something outside.

• 1:02:25Mayim Bialik?

  And that's just symbolism that exists in our culture.

• 1:02:29Speaker 02

  And then the prism is often a symbol of light. And if you notice, one of those dogs was in the light. Did you see the shaft of light in that video?

• 1:02:36Mayim Bialik?

  Also, I'm thinking of like, love and the feeling also of watching joyful, unconditional, love source. Right, like, I did think of that also.

• 1:02:45Speaker 02

  I would say you did a pretty good job.

• 1:02:47Mayim Bialik?

  I did not fail.

• 1:02:48Speaker 02

  You did not fail. You did receive.

• 1:02:51Mayim Bialik?

  What's 9324?

• 1:02:53Speaker 02

  It's an arbitrary number that I just, I gave your. Says you, that's my home phone number.

• 1:02:59Speaker 02

  No, I wanted to give your analytical mind something to hold on to as if that would have like magical powers that would link you to the target.

• 1:03:05Mayim Bialik?

  Telepathy tapes, tell us what you're working on.

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  Telepathy tapes. We're writing up our results from some trials on both telepathy and also trying to understand the minds. We call them mind discovery trials with a bunch of autistic non-speakers in Chicago. And then I'm doing a brief article for Aperture Magazine, which is the International Remote Viewing Association's magazine, to compare remote viewing and the savantism of non-speaking autistic people. And then, next year, we're working on a curriculum.

• 1:03:41Speaker 02

  Natalia Mihen and Maria Welch, two teachers of non-speakers, are creating a curriculum, a holistic curriculum, that brings into the teaching of how to do spelling and communication with non-speakers, brings the telepathy into that as a tool to use rather than to be ignored. And then we're also doing this fantastic new.

• 1:04:03Speaker 02

  Venture, which is for-profit, nonprofit organization called Mindrise, which will be a national organization that will actually help, we hope, change the way human potential, research and technology is both conducted and funded.

• 1:04:19Mayim Bialik?

  What is your best interpretation about psychic abilities in, let's say, the, the non-verbal autistic community? What are you finding?

• 1:04:28Speaker 02

  We say non-speaking just because they're very verbal when you get them in the, on the letter boards. So it's, the trouble is that there's no reliable speaking. So my, what, what we're finding is, is that the original telepathy test that Diane Hennessy did, we can't say, speak to that because we're using a completely different method that uses richer stimulus sets and more naturalistic interactions. But given that, there's definitely telepathy going on. It is really hard to capture with our stimuli because they don't seem to care about them. But they do care about the conversation that they had in their mind with their friend, whom they've never met in the body, you know, who's thousands of miles away.

• 1:05:13Speaker 02

  And we get that all the time. And so that kind of spontaneous telepathy is very clear. And I, I, I also have heard from some parents of non-speakers that they've been approached by folks who claim, oh, we work with the intelligence community and for national security reasons, we want to have access to your kid. And like, I just want to underscore, while it may be true that there could be national security reasons why you need to use these gifts, just use your sense, just use your sense. And your sense needs to be, is this person treating me ethically? Is this person trying to manipulate me, et cetera?

• 1:05:49Jonathan Cohen?

  Hold on. Government agencies are recruiting these?

• 1:05:52Mayim Bialik?

  No, people who are claiming to be government agencies are often contacting, which could be more of an indication that there is something to tap into here. But we don't want people also using legitimate intelligence agencies to try and gain access to vulnerable populations, especially with the promise of, we're going to prove that your kid has telepathy.

• 1:06:12Jonathan Cohen?

  For sure. How are you proving these? These experiences, though, when you say that they're communicating with people that they've never met in physical form, how are you identifying it?

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  So we write down the anecdotal stories because that's what always drives people to do research. But then the research, for example, we wanted to have a controlled, we had worked with videos that were from stock footage where we tried to get non-speakers to describe what's in the video that someone else is watching. Not great, not great. They're not that interesting. They're not.

• 1:06:43Jonathan Cohen?

  Why would they care?

• 1:06:44Speaker 02

  Why would they care? And that's what they say, like, okay, I tried, but it was a boring video. So they often have associations in those trials. So like, one student had an association that the video was of these blossoms and someone, you know, more than 50 feet away in another room that didn't have any adjoining walls with the doors closed, was watching the video of these blossoms opening really fast. So he says, oh, well, the video that they're watching reminds me of church and religion greatly seen by others. That was his wording. And so we were like, okay, whatever. We didn't know what the target was because we like to keep ourselves blind to, right? The only person who knows what the target is is the person who's watching the video. That's how you keep things blind.

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  So then when we go over the target with the non-speaker and we show him the video, he says, yeah, that's the kind of tree that's outside my church when I go in. That's the kind of tree we have. So then we call in the mom. What kind of tree do you have? Like, is there a tree outside of the church where your son would go in? Oh, yeah, there's these like blooming trees that are like pink. So it's like, that's how we get the spontaneous information.

• 1:07:53Jonathan Cohen?

  And you have been seeing that there's overwhelming data that this is happening?

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  Oh, it's clear. I mean, even, we were just playing around once with another Natalia Mihon, who's helping to put together the BRIDGE program that I talked about, the curriculum. Her sister is a non-speaking autistic person, and she has dropped out of graduate school in ecology to go help her sister learn to spell and then communicate. Now she's discovered that her sister has gifted at understanding herbal remedies for people. So in any case, Natalia and I were playing with.

• 1:08:28Speaker 02

  One of her students that I'd never met. And so we said, I said to her, like, okay, we have to get permission from the parents and the student to do this little fun play thing, play a game. You go ask permission. So she asked permission. They said yes. So the game was Natalia was gonna just intend, without saying anything out loud, that the non-speaker report on what I was thinking in that moment. So I knew the time of day. I had it written down. And so I took, I kept track of what I was thinking in that moment. Right? So the non-speaker comes in, she says, well, is there anything you want to talk about before we get going with our lesson? And the non-speaker starts talking about Julia, like literally names me.

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  So she hasn't mentioned my name at all to, to him. Writes about Julia, writes about this owl that I was watching on a video. Oh, the owl flying over. And then mentions something that I was thinking of for the last 24 hours, sort of obsessively, which is Three Eye Atlas, that comet. And she didn't know what Three Eye Atlas was.

• 1:09:29Mayim Bialik?

  The issue here would be with facilitated communication. If the person who's holding the letterboard knows what Julia's thinking about, can we even verify that the student knows? But in this case, the only person who knew what Julia was thinking about was Julia and the universe. So someone is, in theory, holding a letterboard that this individual, who is otherwise non-verbal, is using to communicate with. So if they said owl, I mean, think of how many words there are in the English language. Even if that was the only thing that happened was that you were looking at an owl and this person typed owl, the stats on that are...

• 1:10:06Speaker 02

  It's ridiculous, out of all things that you could say. And then, and then talks about Three Eye Atlas, which she didn't know. She knew owls existed, but she didn't know what, she was like, what is Three Eye Atlas? And she had to look it up. And the mom had to look it up. And then they found out, oh, it's a comet. So then they asked him, why, why are you talking about, what is Three Eye Atlas? And he's, he spelled out, it's a sentient comet.

• 1:10:28Mayim Bialik?

  Do you anticipate that using this kind of spelling method as opposed to facilitated communication, do you think this could be the thing that breaks this wide open in terms of people's understanding of what's actually going on when we talk about telepathic abilities?

• 1:10:44Speaker 02

  Yes, I absolutely do. And I think that's also where the Love Revolution comes in because these non-speakers are very right hemispheric in the colloquial sense, which is very focused on human connection, relationships, trying to help and love. And so bringing that in is revolutionary.

• 1:11:05Mayim Bialik?

  Julia Mossbridge, where can people find you? Obviously, have a nice disclosure, really, really beautiful little book. Where can people find out more about you?

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  So people can find out about me at theinspiracy.com, which is also juliamossbridge.com. So either one, maybe it's easier to remember the inspiracy, which is, by the way, like a conspiracy but inspired inside of yourself. So it's the inspiracy. And then juliamossbridge.com is the same site. Everything I do goes on there.

• 1:11:35Mayim Bialik?

  Join us on Substack for a lot more conversation about all of this and more, from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time.