Andrew Rosen Built Theory and Backed SKIMS – Here’s What He’d Tell Every Founder

Andrew Rosen has spent nearly five decades building, investing in, and shaping some of the most influential brands in American fashion. As the co-founder of Theory and an early investor in brands like TWP, rag and bone, Veronica Beard, Alice + Olivia, Good American and SKIMS, he’s also one of Emma's closest mentors. His advice comes from doing the work — and learning what happens when things don't go to plan. In this conversation, Andrew shares the lessons he took from his father, the setbacks that shaped how he built Theory, and the advice he gave Emma when she was becoming a brand owner. They explore how to trust your instincts, choose the right investors, and build a profitable business with staying power. They get into: Taking over as CEO of the family business in his twentiesLosing control of the company — and what he did nextGetting fired, and why he never saw it as failureThe experience he brought to starting Theory at 40Why profitability has to be part of the plan from the startWhat founders should actually look for in an investorThe lessons he took from his father that still shape how he does business

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Emma Grede?

  My guest today is Andrew Rosen, one of the most influential people in American fashion. Andrew grew up in the fashion business, his family's been in it for three generations, and he went on to become the co-founder and CEO of Theory. He's been involved with brands including Frame, Rag & Bone, Allison Olivia, Veronica Beard, TWP, the list goes on and on. As an early investor in both Good American and Skims, he's also been one of my closest mentors, and so I know firsthand how much wisdom he brings to a business. What makes Andrew so valuable is that his advice comes from actually doing the work. He started running the family business in his twenties, lost control of that company, got fired from the CEO job at Anne Klein, and then started over more than once. I loved his perspective on this, and I hope

• 0:54Emma Grede?

  you'll listen for the lesson, not to mention the invaluable advice he took from his own father, Carl Rosen. We get into so much in this episode, including the advice that he gave me at the very beginning of Good American. How can I forget? We talk about what the great brands of the 90s and the early 2000s understood that brands today have simply forgotten, and where he thinks that fashion is headed right now. Here's my conversation with my dear friend, the one and only Andrew Rosen.

• 1:28Emma Grede?

  Andrew Rosen, welcome to Aspire.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  Thank you. Nice to be here.

• 1:32Emma Grede?

  I am so happy to have you here. You are obviously a dear, dear friend to me, which I feel like should be the kind of opening of this podcast, so everybody knows, someone that I would consider an absolute mentor, and someone whose opinion I respect more than most out there, I would say. I really give you a lot of credit from turning, definitely me, from like a marketer into more of a brand owner, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you a lot of credit during this interview, but that's the first bit of credit. And for people that don't know you, when I think about you and your career and your legacy and all that you've done, it deserves a little bit of a roll call. You've been on every side of fashion, you've been involved in so many companies. When I started thinking about,

• 2:15Emma Grede?

  how is this episode gonna be titled, I was like, the king of American contemporary fashion, the king of New York, like all of these silly things. But let's just do a list of companies that you've been involved in, that you've advised, that you're on the board of, that you've founded. It's a who's who of American fashion, from Theory to Rag & Bone, Allison Olivia, Veronica Beard, Forza Schuler, TWP, which I love, by the way, Helmut Lang, then we have Skims, and we have Frame, and we have Good American. So it's a lot, and that's not even a full list. The thing that I always think about, whenever I'm about to call you, which is often, is that I get to speak to someone who isn't just an investor, who is talking the talk, is someone who's walked the walk. And that is why your advice is so, is just so useful.

• 3:00Emma Grede?

  Like whatever I speak to you about on the phone, I then go and do. It's not theoretical, it's not like, oh, you know, I've seen in some data, it's like, here's the fucking thing, and this is what's probably gonna work.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Well, it's sweet of you to say all that, because when I was going on this podcast, I didn't realize what a cultural icon you have become. And all the girls in my office tell me, you're going on her podcast? That's gonna change your whole career, so.

• 3:25Emma Grede?

  Well, you needed something, obviously. I mean, it's so funny, because I have known you for the longest time, and there's been so much change, I think, from those early days. I knew you, obviously, when you invested in Frame, but I got to work with you at the beginning of Good American, because you were one of the initial investors. And I feel like every time I phoned you, I kinda had to put my suit of armor on, because I was gonna hear something that was gonna be really hard.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, I like to tell the truth.

• 3:52Emma Grede?

  Unfortunately.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Whether it's true or not.

• 3:55Emma Grede?

  I don't know that much has changed, actually. I still feel like I need my suit of armor.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  Actually, the first time we met was not there, the first time we got involved, when Jens and Eric were working with me at Theory and the branding and all, you tried to convince me that celebrity and influencer was the way to go.

• 4:14Emma Grede?

  Tried being the operative word. It's really true. Unfortunately, at that point in my career, things had gotten so big that you would get to the owner. And I say unfortunately, because I would have much rather pitched a marketing person. I was like, I could have got that Siddhartha guy or whoever it was, but they sent me into your office. You had the horse riding on, which I was like, is this the rudest person I've ever met in my life? Yeah, so you had one eye on me, one eye on the race, and you basically told me why everything I was saying was totally wrong, and why that would debatte your brand, and you didn't wanna do it.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the truth of the matter is, you were right at the end of the day. I just didn't realize it back then.

• 4:49Emma Grede?

  I love that you say that. That's very, very kind of you. Obviously, you've been on the side of so many businesses in so many different roles, and I wonder what role has taught you the most about whether a business is gonna succeed or fail?

• 5:03Speaker 01

  What's taught me the most is being involved. I'm doing everything that founders are doing every day, and I'm involved in selecting of fabrics, in manufacturing, and in the retail, in dealing with customers, dealing with wholesale accounts. So I totally understand the business from all facets, and I think that, you know, that started when I was young, and I worked for my dad, who was a real legend in the industry, a really incredible person. And I started working the warehouses, the factories, and learned the business from the bottom up. That's the way I was brought up, and that's what I'm still doing today.

• 5:43Emma Grede?

  I really wanna go back over your career trajectory, because I think the reason that you're such a pivotal investor, and you've had so much success, is because of all the things that you've done, because of your history. But before we go back, I wanna understand, like, what do you think is just the biggest mistake that you see brands make these days?

• 6:00Speaker 01

  I think they try to do everything too quickly. There's sort of a cadence for when things need to happen, because brands wanna be around a long time. And they look at brands that have been around for 15 years, and they've been around two years, and they wanna do what they do. It's just not gonna happen. The evolution of companies is what's important, and where you start is not where you end up.

• 6:25Emma Grede?

  If you were giving the founders and the entrepreneurs that are listening now, I have a highly ambitious audience. They want it all. They wanna be the next Skims, they wanna be the next big thing. What would you say to those that have started something and are in a rush to see it grow, to see it thrive, to see it get across a certain kind of threshold?

• 6:46Speaker 01

  When I'm starting something or I'm involved with a young company, I may look down the road a couple of years, but I set my sights three to six months. I don't go too far too fast. And I think companies and founders need to, need to understand, as I say, that this is, this is a journey, and it's not something that they have to accomplish overnight. And, you know, the walk of the thousand miles begins with a single step, and they gotta put one foot in front of the other and get there. And they have to do it with passion, they have to do it with a sense of urgency, integrity, they have to be creative, they have to do all the right things, but they have to do it in the appropriate time.

• 7:29Emma Grede?

  Fascinating that you say that, because that would seem to me to astute some traditional advice that is like, create a long-range plan, see your business five years out. Do you think you have to do both, that you wanna work so closely in three to six months and have the long-range plan, or no?

• 7:44Speaker 01

  When you're founding your company, the first thing you have to do is survive. And so if you're looking out too far, you're gonna miss too much. When I founded Theory, I was looking at companies that inspired me. Companies like Nike, for example, was, I remember they opened the store on 57th Street. I said, how the hell am I ever gonna get there? You're so far away from that, that you have to, you have to stay in the present a bit. Ultimately, with Theory, we got a long way. I mean, we didn't get to Nike, but I certainly got very far.

• 8:17Emma Grede?

  You did pretty well.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  I always believe you have to be inspired by what other companies are doing, not to copy them, but just to be inspired and motivated by them. I think it's important, but I think you do have to stay in, in sort of the present.

• 8:31Emma Grede?

  Yeah, it was great advice that you gave me, because I think in the beginning of Good American especially, we kinda got a bit high on our own supply.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I remember you wanted to do those bathing suits.

• 8:41Emma Grede?

  He was like, don't do swim. But it was true.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  The bathing suits was gonna be a great business.

• 8:48Emma Grede?

  And you said to me, it's absolutely not gonna be a great business, and you were right.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  We can talk about the shoes all the time.

• 8:55Emma Grede?

  We've got so many mistakes to talk about. We could be here all day. But I do remember something that you said to me, which was that I should listen to my customer, because I'm gonna need to address what they're saying in the following season. And you were like, don't be so far out that you're getting carried away on what you think you should be doing, because you need to respond.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  Well, you know, a lot of people compare This season to what it was last year. And I don't look at last year, I'm more look at what the momentum is over the last three months. I really don't try to copy what I did last year. I try to evolve and move, move forward from last year.

• 9:35Emma Grede?

  It's, it's a curse for retail businesses, right? To be too L Y focused.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  If you think about it, the, the world is evolving so fast, the consumers are evolving, fashion is evolving and companies have to evolve with that. And those companies that get stuck in trying to repeat what they've done before, they get in trouble. I'm not saying you throw everything out, but you really have to be conscious of evolving with the world.

• 9:59Emma Grede?

  So Andrew, take me back because you're full of wisdom, but you got here in a very specific way. You're actually like a third generation fashion person. Will you just talk me through the trajectory of your career because it really is quite fascinating. And I think talk about have so much responsibility at such a young age that does so much to a person.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  I mean, my father, as I said earlier, was an amazing man, a great mentor and inspiration for me. And I always knew at a young age that I was going to go into his business. I was the youngest of four children and it was just always something that I think I knew and he knew was going to happen. Throughout my whole youth, I was doing the kinds of things he liked to do. I was playing golf. I was going to the racetrack with him. I was doing all the kinds of things, though my father was not one of those, you know, kind of dads that would throw the ball with you. I had to participate in what he was doing. He wasn't participating in what I was doing. But he sort of wanted me to go to college and I went to college for one year, but I

• 11:05Speaker 01

  just went to play golf and that's what I was doing at the time. My uncle came to me and he said to me, when are you ready to go to work for your dad? I was 19 years old. So when are you ready to go to work for your dad? I'm going to call your dad and tell him. I said, you can call him today and tell him. My dad was smart because he put me on a program to really learn the business from the inside out. And I started working at a knitting mill in Long Island. I then went to a factory in New Bedford, Massachusetts, worked on the sewing floor, worked in the warehouse, really understood what the whole process of making clothes was all about.

• 11:40Emma Grede?

  And your dad's business was manufacturing, essentially?

• 11:42Speaker 01

  My father was in the dress business, but he had Gloria Swanson, he had paraphernalia. He had a lot of different companies. I spent about nine months working the showroom just as a salesman, just learning the business. But my dad, he used to have me in every, in a lot of meetings that he had with all the big department stores with whatever he was doing, he had me in the different meetings. So I was acquiring a lot of knowledge along the way. He then in 1978 got the license with Calvin Klein to make Calvin Klein jeans.

• 12:19Emma Grede?

  Tell me how many pairs of jeans were they making?

• 12:23Speaker 01

  Well, the jeans were 16, 50 to $20 wholesale. So that was $35 to $45 retail. And he was paying Calvin a dollar a pair for every jean he sold. And he was, was paying him $20 million a year. So he was selling a lot of jeans.

• 12:45Emma Grede?

  Wow. Crazy.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  You know, this is 1970s, early 1980s. I said to my dad, no one in the company understands the men's business here. Why don't I take a shot at running this men's business for you? And I was 22 years old.

• 13:00Emma Grede?

  Crazy.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  And it got off to a little bit of a rocky start. And I went to my dad and I said, after about six months or nine months, I said, maybe you want someone else to do this. He says, no, I'm sticking with you. And once we went through the first Christmas, took off and the men's business grew to a hundred million dollars within three years. It was crazy. So I had sort of made a reputation for myself at a, at a pretty young age.

• 13:26Emma Grede?

  No doubt.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  My dad got sick in 1982 and he got, had cancer. And the company was doing 300 odd million dollars at that time.

• 13:38Emma Grede?

  Which to contextualize, like 1982, I know that year because it's the year of my birth, 44 years ago. So it's like a, a billion dollar something company in today's terms, right?

• 13:48Speaker 01

  Maybe more.

• 13:48Emma Grede?

  It's huge. Huge. And you are 26 years old at that point?

• 13:52Speaker 01

  26. And my dad passed away a year later.

• 13:56Emma Grede?

  I'm so sorry.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  And I had to become the CEO of the company. If I thought about it today, it would be frightening. I think it was just something I knew I had to do and I became the CEO of New York Stock Exchange Company.

• 14:08Emma Grede?

  Did you understand the magnitude of what you were stepping into?

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Not at all.

• 14:12Emma Grede?

  Really?

• 14:13Speaker 01

  No, I didn't even think about it. It's not even that I didn't understand it. I didn't think about it.

• 14:18Emma Grede?

  You just did it out of obligation?

• 14:21Speaker 01

  That was just the responsibility that I had. And my dad was, he was sick for about a year before he passed away. And over that year, he did as much as he could to help and, and train me to be prepared for it. The one thing that, that also happened is he had a, a best friend who was a lawyer. And that individual who since just passed away over the last year.

• 14:46Emma Grede?

  I remember.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Became like a, a second father to me. And actually, although I, I, I lost my father with this fellow, Miles Rubin, I never felt like I didn't have a father. He did, was amazing. But I think that was sort of a factor that, that helped me a lot.

• 15:03Emma Grede?

  No doubt.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  One thing's in life that everything is a straight line up and, you know, you're successful through everything. There's a lot of ups and downs and, and twists and turns and.

• 15:13Emma Grede?

  I know how much Miles meant to you because I've known you for so many years and you would always be visiting him. And, and obviously I knew of his passing. I think one of the reasons that you're able to be such a good mentor to so many is because you had one and you had a great example in both your father before his passing and in Miles that were able to really shepherd you through this unbelievable career that you were having when you were still really just a kid, like a 26 year old kid. Like the idea of taking all of that responsibility and also all the eyeballs that were on you. Will you just talk a little bit about Barry Schwartz and Calvin Klein and what happened when the control of the company changed? Because that was so highly publicized and known in the fashion

• 15:56Emma Grede?

  business. And it could have been something that would sort of kill a person, but it absolutely didn't for you.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  I mean, there was, there's a lot written about all of this, but about a year later, the company started to have some trouble and Barry Schwartz and Calvin Klein decided that they were going to, in a hostile takeover, take over the company.

• 16:16Emma Grede?

  And was the company having trouble because you were having trouble running it? Or was it just like the company had grown so quickly, you know?

• 16:22Speaker 01

  You know, who knows, who, who knows whether someone else would have done a better job or not. I think the jeans business is quite cyclical. So

• 16:32Emma Grede?

  No shit.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  When we were in a period, when we were a period where the, the jean business was great, the company was doing well, the jeans business got tough. But clearly at 26 years old, I probably missed a few things along the way.

• 16:46Emma Grede?

  Maybe.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 16:47Emma Grede?

  Maybe. So Barry and Calvin roll in and say, no tar. We don't fancy what you're selling.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  So they, in a very public manner, made a takeover of the company and ultimately took over the company. I was gonna leave and they had hired somebody who I had known before. He was the CEO of Saks Fifth Avenue, a fellow by the name of Bob Suslow. And he came in to run the company. The first thing he did was sit down with me for days. And he wanted to understand everything I knew and what was going on with the company. And I remember me, he wrote everything down on a yellow pad with a black pencil. I don't know how many pages of notes he took. But anyway, I had gotten an opportunity to go

• 17:34Speaker 01

  to work at Ralph Lauren. I came in and I said to Bob Suslow, I said, listen, these guys don't really want me here. I'm gonna go, I got an opportunity to go run one of the Ralph Lauren companies. Stuart Chrysler at that time was a vice CEO for Ralph Lauren. He said to me, you're not going anywhere. You're staying here with me and you're going to run this company one day. So rather than run away and flee, I said, I'm gonna do that. And I ended up staying and working with him. He ended up getting in a disagreement with Barry and Calvin and left. Then they brought in someone else. That didn't work out. And ultimately I ended up being president of the company again.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  I think that was something for me that I just wanted to make a, a statement that my father was right about me being able to run the company. Within the next three or four months, I left and became the CEO of Ann Klein.

• 18:32Emma Grede?

  I mean, good for you, first of all. I, I love that. And I always think about that moment could have been like such an embarrassment for you, but actually it turned around completely.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  In the moment, I just had to deal with everything that, that happened. There was a lot of bad publicity. There was some good publicity. I just sold it on, so to speak. And I, I guess I had enough confidence in myself and my own ability. And I think that's a tribute to what my father had prepared me for.

• 19:03Emma Grede?

  Absolutely. No doubt.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  I didn't think twice about any of it. I just really did the best job I could every day I was there. So I ended up leaving and going to work for Ann Klein.

• 19:15Emma Grede?

  Where you were the CEO?

• 19:16Speaker 01

  I was the CEO.

• 19:17Emma Grede?

  You're still pretty young to be a CEO at this point. I mean, because Ann Klein, again, big company.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  I was 29 or 30 years old. Yeah. At that point in time, I had been working for 10 or 11 years and I had, I had accomplished a lot.

• 19:30Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  You know, I was a good merchant. I still am today.

• 19:34Emma Grede?

  I was, I was just about to say that. You are, you are a good merchant. But you did end up getting fired from Ann Klein, right? You were, you were there.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:41Emma Grede?

  You got fired. You did Ann Klein for how many years?

• 19:44Speaker 01

  Six years.

• 19:44Emma Grede?

  All right.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  I was really, that was, I was asking for that. The truth of the matter is, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. But I was going through some stuff in my life and I had a different idea of what Ann Klein should be from the owners. Whether I was right or wrong, it wasn't really, it didn't matter. They wanted to go in a different direction than I wanted to go. And it was not the easiest moment for sure.

• 20:11Emma Grede?

  What did that experience teach you about failure?

• 20:15Speaker 01

  That's a good question. I just felt that it wasn't the right place for me. I didn't really see it as failure. I saw it as an opportunity.

• 20:22Emma Grede?

  I just love you so much. Can I tell you, that is like such a male answer. I fucking love it. And if any single woman listening to this podcast right now could just take that right in, because your answer could never, ever come from a woman. Because a woman would give me a fucking laundry list of all the things she did wrong and why that opportunity was like completely, you know, taken away. And you're just like, just wasn't the right place for me.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't really have the luxury of, of having to be too emotional about it. It wasn't going to change and that's the way it was. And I had to figure out what I was going to do next.

• 20:59Emma Grede?

  What were you going through in your life at that point that was a tumultuous moment?

• 21:03Speaker 01

  I was getting divorced from my first wife, getting custody of my kids, and just trying to figure out where I was going. And, you know, it's just one of those things. I just really had to face up to what I needed to do to support my family.

• 21:24Emma Grede?

  It's kind of amazing to hear you talk about it because you don't talk about this much publicly. But at the end of this, you've done and had this incredible career while being a single dad raising two kids, two incredible kids who I know extremely well, who are a credit to you. But at the end of the day-

• 21:42Speaker 01

  They weren't always that way, but they ended up that way.

• 21:44Emma Grede?

  Apparently they never are. But regardless, you were solely responsible for raising them.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, my kids were the most important thing in my life. And they needed guidance and direction and love. And that's what I was there for. And it's interesting you got me talking about all this because this wasn't what we were supposed to talk about at all. And probably I haven't thought about this stuff for years and years. But I, I, I think it's okay. I don't mind talking about it with friends. You know, I always took the attitude that I had a responsibility and I had to deal with that responsibility and do the best I could. Again, just that's the principles my father left me with. That's who my father was, that's who I was, and that's what I had to do.

• 22:41Emma Grede?

  You've mentioned the word principles and philosophy a couple of times in the short time we've been speaking. It strikes me as like just knowing and working with you that you are such a highly principled person in the terms of the way you do business, the way you make decisions, the way you take on responsibility. Is that something that you, like, is it something that you're very conscious of? Or is it so wired into you that you don't even think about it at this point?

• 23:08Speaker 01

  I think it's, it's something that's wired into me. I don't think about it. But, you know, I remember my dad said to me one time, I don't understand why all these people are saying they like you. I don't want you to be liked. I want you to be respected. I learned at a very early age that if you wanted to be respected, you had to do the right thing. And that's what I've always tried to do. The right thing may mean different things to different people. Principles and integrity and the way I want to live my life and the way I want to do business and the way I want people to think of me, it's, it's, it's a certain way. And that's wired into me. A lot of people aren't going to agree with what, what I do or how I do it.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  But as long as I'm comfortable with it, that's good enough.

• 23:56Emma Grede?

  It's funny that you say a lot of people wouldn't agree because it's really hard to get any shit on you. Because everybody that you call, even if you've given really harsh, hard feedback in that way that only Andrew does, they really respect you. And I feel like everyone at some point has sat in your office, had a meeting with you, spoken about their business, certainly anyone in fashion in New York. And, and you are a no holes barred person. You never tell people what they want to hear. You always are very truthful and you're very explicit with that truth. You're not really dressing up because you don't have that kind of time. And yet you are extremely well liked. Is there a reason that you think that that's the case with you? You must be aware of that reputation.

• 24:41Emma Grede?

  Are you?

• 24:43Speaker 01

  I think that-

• 24:43Emma Grede?

  I couldn't get anyone to talk shit about you, basically, Andrew. I made all the calls.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  I think the environment that you create is important to the success of your business. So I try to be fair with people. I try to be compassionate with people. And I, as I say, I try to do the right thing. It doesn't mean that it's always the most popular thing, but it's the thing that I think is in the best interest of, of the mission ahead. It's nice that people feel that way. And I guess that goes back to the conversation I had with my father. And people did like me, but more importantly, they respected me.

• 25:20Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I think the same could be true now.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  You know, that's something, as I say, I learned at an early age and something, you know, it's interesting because I'm sure what he said to me, you know, just rolled off his tongue and he didn't think that 50 years later, I was going to remember it and it was going to be, you know, something that had a great impact on my life.

• 25:41Emma Grede?

  Yeah, and a great impact on so many other people's lives. Because I think that that is the big thing about you, like your wisdom and your know-how. Like you're not a gatekeeper. You're someone who is willing to share the information, to pass on the knowledge, to, to show that to other people. And I think that there's been so many people, whether you've invested in the company or not, that have benefited from that wisdom. And you might not think about it like that, but I think it's pretty true of how other people see you.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I learned from other people and I'm still learning today. And I like to meet young people that founded their businesses or starting their business or involved in their business. And I learn a lot from conversations with them. They learn from me, but I'm also learning from them. I'm now of a generation that really should be retiring, but I have no interest in retiring. I'm still building and going and wanting to do lots more. And the reason that is, is because I'm around young people all the time. I'm around young ideas and I'm still interested and curious about that.

• 26:41Emma Grede?

  Yeah, no doubt. I mean, I always find that fascinating about you that you will know about the new hottest handbag startup before I do. And I'm like, oh shit, like I need to go and get this thing. Or like, you know, you'll call up and you'll be like, these people are making like injected molded shoes out of AI algorithm. And I'm like, okay, Andrew, like, let's go and see them. But that is so much a part of you, like you are constantly in learning mode. You are absorbing from the young energy all around you. And you've kind of made it your business to know, to be in the know. You're not like sitting here talking about Ralph Lauren and Anne Klein anymore, really. Maybe Ralph Lauren, because I'd still, we're all talking about Ralph Lauren again now. I know, what a comeback. It's amazing. I want to talk a bit about theory because to me, theory was such an interesting business.

• 27:26Emma Grede?

  Because what you saw, and actually, again, it goes back to your superpowers. You have this incredible way of seeing what's coming down the pipe, like what's actually happening and looking into the future. And you saw that the way women were dressing for work was really changing. Like, I'm curious to understand how you knew that that shift in behavior could actually become a business.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  So here's, here's what, this is now 1995, 96, 97. So the world was a completely different place. Cell phones were just coming, the internet was just coming. I understood that people's lives were going to change dramatically. They were no longer going to be chained to an office. They were going to be moving around and work was going to become a very different thing. I felt that if I could make clothing that matched what the new, you know, paradigm for, for the working woman was going to be, I, I was going to have something. And at that time, remember, I just got fired from Anne Klein.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  I wasn't really hireable because who was going to hire me? I actually went on two interviews. One interview was with Linda Wachner. She was a big powerhouse at the time, the CEO of Warnaco. And she had a job for me out in California to run Speedo or one of these, this, this whole thing she had out there. I wasn't picking up and moving to California.

• 29:00Emma Grede?

  No, no, you don't work in California.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  I had another interview with Silas Chow and Lauren Stroll.

• 29:07Emma Grede?

  You're ready to go to Tommy or Tommy, what was happening?

• 29:10Speaker 01

  Now I'm getting, I'm really getting into the, into stuff. But I had an interview with Silas and Lawrence. They were looking for someone to run Pepe Jeans. But I don't think they thought I was the right person for that.

• 29:24Emma Grede?

  More like them.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  So I realized that finding a job was not going to be the way to go. But I wanted to start my own business anyway. I wanted to do something on my own and personal. And Ellie Tahari called me up.

• 29:37Emma Grede?

  Amazing talent.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Ellie is an interesting character. I mean, we could go on about that, but we don't, we don't need to. But Ellie called me and Ellie said, why don't we get together? I got together with him and he and I sort of hit it off. But I have the ability to deal with people that are a little left of center. And Ellie was definitely left of center.

• 29:57Emma Grede?

  And it's such a nice polite way to put it.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  You know, he's a creative guy and he's a survivor. And, you know, he, he came here with nothing and built an incredible business and, and all. But he was, he was different. And Ellie said, why don't you come and help me run my business? I said, I don't want to help you run your business. I want to start my own business. She says, you will start a business together too. He says, you'll help me run my business, we'll start a business.

• 30:26Emma Grede?

  And that business was Ellie Tahari as like the, the brand, his namesake brand.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  It was actually a good situation for me because, you know, I could earn some money helping run his business while I started a business that he and I had together. That business was theory. And he had been screwing around with lots of these stretch fabrics. And I said to him, why don't we start a company where all the fabrics are made with, with Lycra? And all the clothes we make are going to be out of fabrics with Lycra. And we're going to do it better than anyone else. We're going to have the best fabrics. We're going to have the best fit. We're going to have the best quality. And that was the whole premise. And the idea also that women needed clothes that were more versatile. And there was nothing more versatile than clothing with Lycra.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  You could pack it up and it wouldn't wrinkle and, you know, it was so comfortable to travel in and everything seems simple.

• 31:18Emma Grede?

  It seems so simple, but actually, when you go back to that time, like it would have been completely revolutionary.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:33Emma Grede?

  I wonder what are some of the decisions that you made at Theory that made the business as successful as it was? Like now with the benefit of hindsight, what can you look back on and say like, these were the things?

• 31:43Speaker 01

  I mean, we spent a long time to get the right fabrics, the right fit and manufacture them the right way. And the clothes fit perfectly.

• 31:51Emma Grede?

  Product.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  And from the day we started, the clothes flew off the shelves. I think we went from six million to 20 million to 50 million. The company just took off. And it was also a different era. There was no, owning your own store was not something that was even conceivable. There was no internet back then. The internet was just starting. In fact, I have a funny story about that. The guy that started Shop Up.

• 32:19Emma Grede?

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  His name Bob. And he came into my office. He started in Wisconsin or something. And he said, I have this, this platform and I'm going to sell clothes on the internet and I want you to sell. I said, that's the stupidest idea I've ever heard. Who's going to buy clothes on the internet? That's ridiculous.

• 32:39Emma Grede?

  Off with you. Come back when you have a better idea.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  I quickly changed my mind, but at first I thought it was a terrible idea.

• 32:48Emma Grede?

  But it's so funny because I mean, obviously both you and I are friends with Natalie Mastin. And she had exactly the same stories, like walking around telling people you were going to buy clothes off a computer screen felt bananas, especially expensive things. You were like, yeah, I get it. I'll buy a book, but I'm not spending like 150 bucks on a pair of pants.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  Unheard of.

• 33:04Emma Grede?

  When you think about scaling that business, because the trajectory was so like steep, what did you have to learn when it came to scaling it like the right way?

• 33:14Speaker 01

  The thing is that I started my business, I was 40 years old. So I had a lot of experience. Most people start their business, they never did anything before.

• 33:22Emma Grede?

  Isn't there something to say of that though, Andrew? Like so many people feel like they should start a business when they're 26, 27. And it's like.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  I tell everyone, experiment on someone else's money. Don't experiment with your own. By that time, I knew what to do and how to do it. I was sort of inventing a whole new category of business and I had to learn things about that. But I knew how to design clothes. I knew how to manufacture clothes. I was a good, I knew how to merchandise clothes. I knew all the department stores. I knew all the press. I knew all the ingredients that it took to be successful. The big advantage was, as I said, I'd done it before for years and now I was doing it for myself.

• 34:04Emma Grede?

  Did you know that Theory would become as big as it actually did?

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Not at all.

• 34:08Emma Grede?

  So what was your thinking? Because you kind of get six years into starting the company and then you decide, I'm going to sell a meaningful piece.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Well, that's, there's a reason for that. I had a partner and I thought it was better and safer to sell the company, have the money and not have the partner. And Ellie, there's nothing bad about Ellie. I think Ellie is a, Ellie is a great guy and Ellie has got a lot of great qualities, but he's, he's not always the easiest. And when nine 11 happened, you know, business became very tough after that. And Ellie's business got very tough. And he had to use the financing of Theory to support his business, which I had no problem with. He was my partner. I couldn't say no to him. I didn't really want to do it or

• 34:57Speaker 01

  like to, but I had to do it. And I realized at that time that.

• 35:03Emma Grede?

  Well, technically you were just being a good partner though. No, you wouldn't have had to do it. I mean, two companies, two separate companies, you were a good partner.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Ellie helped me when I needed help. I was certainly going to help him when he needed help. I mean, that wasn't an option. I realized that I was not a hundred percent in control of my fate. And I didn't, I thought it was better for both him and I that we got the money. Cause the business started with nothing. And we sold it for, at that time, a lot of money.

• 35:37Emma Grede?

  A pretty penny.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:38Emma Grede?

  So you then get to take some money off the table and you decide to stay on in the business for a bloody long time after that. I'm wondering like, what did staying in a business for that amount of time teach you about being a good leader and a good businessman?

• 35:54Speaker 01

  I made a deal with the Japanese that I was going to stay for one year.

• 35:58Emma Grede?

  They were the money partner?

• 35:59Speaker 01

  Misty and I from fast retailing who.

• 36:02Emma Grede?

  Unicorns.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  I don't need to explain.

• 36:04Emma Grede?

  All bow down. Couldn't have had a better buyer, acquirer, I guess.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  He was Misty and I then, but he wasn't the Misty and I of today. He was, his, his business was smaller, maybe three or four billion at that time. He came in and my closest friend at that time was a fellow by the name of Ricky Sasaki. And Ricky was sort of the, the intermediary between Misty and I and myself, or fast retailing myself. Ricky unfortunately had passed away, maybe now 15 years ago, but he was another amazing person and, and a really close friend of mine. But he was the one that made the introduction to Misty and I. And Ricky had Theory in Japan. I had licensed Theory in Japan to him and he had

• 36:50Speaker 01

  built a big business there. And so Ricky was the one that had met Misty and I and had sort of put the deal together. And they had agreed with me that I was going to stay one year. And I had a one year contract. And after the year was up, they didn't want me to go. I didn't want to go. And I never had another contract.

• 37:11Emma Grede?

  No way.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  Never had another.

• 37:12Emma Grede?

  You just stayed on for how long?

• 37:14Speaker 01

  15 years.

• 37:15Emma Grede?

  I mean, it's unbelievable.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  It wasn't really hard because Misty and I was, was, is still an incredible, inspiring leader. He's incredibly intuitive. 15 seconds is an eternity to him to make a decision. I mean, it's just incredible. And I learned a lot from him, a lot. I was learning for the whole 15 years I was there. I think at, at the end, he wanted to have more control of the business and rightfully so. His son, who had been working there all the time, was ready to take over. And it was time I left. But for the 15 years that I was there, you

• 37:55Speaker 01

  know, I think he respected me and I greatly respected him. He couldn't have made a situation easier for a founder to stay and continue running the business. And he's incredible.

• 38:08Emma Grede?

  I think that so many of the founders that you interact with would say a similar thing about you. Like you couldn't make it easier to be a founder in a business that you've invested in. And you obviously learned an enormous amount for him. What do you think that people right now underestimate about building a brand and scaling a brand, given all your years of experience, everything that you saw from taking over from your father to being at the helm of that company, to moving into Anne Klein, to then starting Theory? What are the biggest things that you see that are just not talked about enough?

• 38:41Speaker 01

  You know, I think it's all about the integrity, the integrity of the company you create, the product, the experience, the methodology of doing business. I mean, it all has to be done with great integrity. And it's not just about making sales. I mean, sales are easy to make. It's about really creating something that's worth something at the end of the day, that really lasts. It's way more than just how much sales you bring up. I want to be proud of the work we do. I want the people in the company to be proud of the work that we do. And I want them to be proud when they say, this is the company I work for.

• 39:18Emma Grede?

  How do you institute that though, Andrew? Because even as you say that and you talk about integrity, and I feel like it's a word that people throw out a lot, but you really live it. How do you bring in what you know so intrinsically, what you've learned from all the amazing people that you've had around you and make that a value within the company that everybody else lives by? Like, how do you actually ensure integrity within products? Integrity within how customers come in and see the brand?

• 39:45Speaker 01

  It's just what you do every day. It's just every decision you make, how you run your business. You know more maybe than I do about what people think of me and the business I run. But I try to be fair and consistent and, and inspiring. I mean, I think that's again, something I learned from my father. My father made work fun. And he was inspiring and he made it like people wanted to give 150%. And he was giving 160%. I believe that, you know, you have to work just as hard as anyone in the company still, even if at my age and my success or whatever, I try to work as hard as the hardest working employee in the company.

• 40:30Emma Grede?

  Yeah. I mean, I feel like I can see that with you because, I mean, even when we have a board meeting, like you care so much about products. One of my favorite Andrew stories is when I was trying to show you like some new stuff that we were doing and you like, you go for a row in this like very particular way. Like when you show Andrew stuff, he goes, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, that's a hit, that's not a hit. Don't do that. Do more of that, but in that way. But like you, you have that. Like you know, you can just leaf through a thing and you will feel it immediately. But do you think it's that like that you've stayed so close? Like you haven't kind of gone up here and just done the boards and just done the investing and just done the advising that you're still like in it?

• 41:11Speaker 01

  I think that helps, but I don't, I don't read fashion magazines. I don't look at fashion. I don't, it's just something I feel. I've been around it for so long. And I suppose that my senses and my, you know, I have my own algorithms that are going on in my mind. So when I see a product or someone discusses an idea with me, I'm going through a whole checklist in my mind as to whether that's going to work or not. It's just something intuitive. I see things differently than other people do. And it's, it's frustrating to people because I want to go left and they want to go right. And I said, no, we have to go left.

• 41:51Emma Grede?

  Or usually you know what you say. You're like, go right. Just remember what I said about going left. That's usually what happens.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  I do that too.

• 41:59Emma Grede?

  Hence the swimwear conversation.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  If somebody feels strongly in something, I'll let them go do it. But I just have sort of an intuitive sense. And I think that was something, because I grew up with my father bringing clothes home. I could remember him bringing boxes of Beatles t-shirts and hats and all the kind of stuff he was making at the time and bring them to the house and us looking through them. And, you know, I just always was trained that way.

• 42:24Emma Grede?

  It's in your bones. Do you have the same type of gut instinct for people?

• 42:29Speaker 01

  I feel that way about people also. I mean. I don't know whether I'm as good at that as I am the other thing. But yeah, I sort of, I operate a lot from my instincts and my instincts with people, my instincts with product, my instinct with making decisions, very much so.

• 42:49Emma Grede?

  What have you learned when it comes to hiring people about the type of person that can be successful and additive in an organisation?

• 42:57Speaker 01

  Some people work laterally, some people work linear, right? I deal much better with lateral thinking people. The linear thinking people have a little bit of trouble with me because I think very laterally. People have to be able to see things from, from that kind of perspective. And the only companies that I, I've not been successful with is when I really didn't get along with the people that were running them. I really had a very different opinion and they didn't understand what I was saying. And they were super defensive about what I was saying and how I was saying it. But, you know, it just, that's the ones that didn't work out. But the ones where we've gotten along have worked out really well.

• 43:40Emma Grede?

  And gotten along is very different from agreeing all the time, right? Because I feel like you have been so useful to me and in the businesses that we're involved in together because you have your opinion, but it isn't something where you're like, it's my way or the highway. You're going to offer your experience, but I also feel like you've saved me from a lot of shit, even if I've gone against what you told me to do.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  But I respect people have a different opinion and that's okay. And if they want to go that way, even if I'm their partner, it's all right. I mean, I don't have to be right all the time and I don't have to only see things my way either.

• 44:16Emma Grede?

  I feel always so happy that I had the investor base that I did because in, in one way, like, I feel like so many things that you do, you know, I had like one camp of people that would talk about like a different way of thinking about growing a business. And I always, you know, in my very naive way, I was like, I had like this sort of younger group of investors and I had the older group of investors. And you were very clear in your training, you were like, Emma, if you don't have profit, you don't have a company. Like, it's just that simple, right? And in a way, when I came up, like, thinking about the start of Good American, which is a decade ago now, it wasn't, that wasn't the timing. The timing was like, chase the top line, like plow money into, plow money into digital

• 45:02Emma Grede?

  marketing. And you literally looked at the numbers and you were like, here's why this is not gonna work, which wasn't the prevailing wisdom, which wasn't how everyone that I could see around me that was being successful was, was doing.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  I mean, I've been running a business almost 50 years now and be responsible for running a business. And, you know, you have to have gross profit, you have to have bottom line profit. And if you don't have that, you're not going to own much of the business when you get finished.

• 45:30Emma Grede?

  But were you never seduced by that moment where you saw all of these brands becoming massive overnight successes and thought, I want to be a part of that?

• 45:39Speaker 01

  Not really. I mean, I don't think there are any rules in fashion, as I said earlier. People run their businesses completely different, you know, everyone runs a business a little different and that's what makes the industry so interesting. I've always tried to have a few guiding principles and who I want to work with and, and what I think is successful. It doesn't, it doesn't all, like, all the companies I'm involved with, they all run differently.

• 46:05Emma Grede?

  No doubt.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  And the products is all different, but they're all competing against each other too.

• 46:10Emma Grede?

  Which I always find so fascinating. Obviously, I know I'm your favourite, so I feel totally fine about it.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  Even like, the interesting thing is, at Theory, I was investing in companies that were directly competitive with Theory.

• 46:23Emma Grede?

  Yeah, and as you do now, I mean, you have so many companies in the same space.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, but they all do it differently. Like, I don't mix, the only, the only thing that's common in the companies is me and Hussein, who's my CFO.

• 46:37Emma Grede?

  Love Hussein, shout out to Hussein, by the way. Couldn't do it without Hussein, no, Hussein is unbelievable, amazing.

• 46:54Emma Grede?

  I want to talk to you a little bit about you as an investor, Andrew as an investor. So many founders that I speak to have really difficult relationships with their investors. They never quite find the reason that they've parted with so much or their footing and how to work with their investors. You mentioned earlier that the companies you have the best relationship with are those where you've actually just established a great relationship with the founder. What do you advise people when they go out and they find an investor? How do you interact with an investor in a way that is going to be fruitful for the relationship? Like, what do you tell people?

• 47:31Speaker 01

  I think first of all, what kind of investor are you looking for? Are you looking for an investor or are you looking for a partner? If you're looking for an investor, that can be difficult because they're investing in you and unless you deliver what you committed, they, to them, you're going to deliver, they're not going to be happy. And when they're not happy, how are they going to perform? I think the most important question to ask is, if you're a founder, what's going to happen if the business has some trouble? And how are you going to react to that? And how are you and I going to work together? The key thing is not when business is good, the key thing is when business is not good. And there's always going to be that period where business is not good.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  I mean, it's just, it doesn't go always, there's always problems and even in the best companies. And I think what founders need to realise is what's the investor I'm having going to do when things aren't exactly the way that I put them on the piece of paper?

• 48:32Emma Grede?

  Which is so difficult, right? Because I feel like you're in such a, like, a dog and pony show of show and tell when you're out to investors. So you're only ever trying to talk about the upside and you shy away from ever even imagining a moment of downtime. But that's when it comes down to character and integrity and who am I in business with and for what reasons?

• 48:53Speaker 01

  But I don't ever consider myself an investor in any business. I'm a partner. As a partner, I have a different responsibility than an investor. And for me, I'm not looking about how much money I'm going to make and how quickly I'm going to sell it. I'm looking at how we're going to build something that we can be proud of.

• 49:12Emma Grede?

  And is that a criteria for you to get involved in a business? Because I'm sure some people are just looking at the cheque. They're like, great, the cheque comes from somebody like Andrew Rosen. But I wonder if that's always like implicitly understood from the other side?

• 49:28Speaker 01

  I mean, the best companies that I invest in are the companies that are super small. I invested in Alice and Livia, it was 500,000.

• 49:40Emma Grede?

  Stop it, was it that?

• 49:41Speaker 01

  300 million.

• 49:42Emma Grede?

  What?

• 49:43Speaker 01

  I invested in Ragged Bone, they were doing, you know, a million and a half dollars.

• 49:48Emma Grede?

  I just want to say for the record that you were in Good American and Skims before they even started. So I'm just putting myself in that list of success stories. Thank you very much. Just in case you weren't going to mention them.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  No, Skims.

• 50:04Emma Grede?

  Good old Skims. Skims makes us all happy. Skims will make us all sleep at night, that's what we say.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  If we only knew then what we knew was going to happen.

• 50:13Emma Grede?

  Should have, could have, fucking would have. If we could only just make a million Skims.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  That makes everything else look bad.

• 50:20Emma Grede?

  I know, which is actually such a curse in a way, isn't it? It's so funny because, again, because we're coming up on this big anniversary with Good America, and I'm like, that's an incredible company. It's just that everything pales into insignificance when you have something that's a total outlier. How do you even focus on the smaller, more emerging things when you have all of this like unbelievable stuff in your portfolio? And Andrew, like, when you don't need the money anymore?

• 50:46Speaker 01

  I mean, I don't think things are always about money.

• 50:50Emma Grede?

  Clearly, but that's easy to say when you have a lot of money.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, but even when you don't have money, it's still about the passion of being able to do something well. If you do something well, the money will come. And I guess it's easy to say now, but, I mean, there was a time that, you know, money was a little tighter than it is currently, but, um, I don't know, I, I just, I, I love my work, so I'm lucky. I discovered recently that I was a workaholic.

• 51:22Emma Grede?

  You didn't know that? Who told you?

• 51:25Speaker 01

  I didn't really know that.

• 51:26Emma Grede?

  Are you absolutely kidding? You'll take a call at like 11 o'clock at night in this?

• 51:32Speaker 01

  I make calls at 11 o'clock.

• 51:33Emma Grede?

  We know, we fucking know.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  But I actually just realised that, that I have more enjoyment at work than I do in lots of other places. But I think, I think I realised that because I stopped playing less golf now. And I stopped playing. Golf is a big distraction for me.

• 51:50Emma Grede?

  Huge distraction, huge distraction.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  I was able to work hard.

• 51:54Emma Grede?

  I'm only saying it like this because my husband has just taken up golf, which you know, you were like, welcome to being a golf widow. I was like, yeah, like literally on my own all the time. Golf is a huge distraction, but it's interesting because I always think about fashion as being like a bit of a hobby for you, like you love it so much, but you are someone that despite being a workaholic, you have a very full life. You fish, you have the horses. Andrew is obsessed and owns a lot of racehorses. You have golf, which took up a lot of your time. You have this big family life, right? You're a grandfather, your daughter has two kids, you have this incredibly successful family. You're really like the person that so many people rely on in some ways.

• 52:36Emma Grede?

  So even though you're a workaholic, you're a very well-rounded sort of family man with a lot of hobbies.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  I have a lot of hobbies. I have a lot of hobbies and I have a lot of responsibilities, but there's time for everything.

• 52:49Emma Grede?

  What do you think that great fashion businesses of like the nineties and the early two thousands understood that brands now have maybe forgotten a little bit?

• 52:58Speaker 01

  Back then, you have to understand that brands were about making the best product. And they didn't have to worry about marketing it. They didn't have to worry about selling it. They just had to make the best product. They were experts in designing and manufacturing and merchandising. I think today the business has gotten a lot more complex because not only do you have to worry about that stuff, you have to sell it, you have to create the content. So you have to be a retailer, you have to be a media company, you have to create, create content. So it's a much more complicated business today.

• 53:34Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I think you're completely right about that. And it becomes a distraction for small companies.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  It's more complex and it takes a greater understanding of the whole now.

• 53:45Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Before you only understood half because you had magazines and you had retailers to do part of the job for you.

• 53:54Emma Grede?

  Yeah, there was a much more established and recognized system and that system is kind of broken, meaning that there's then a bit of a free for all and a land grab.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  For those companies that understand it, it's very liberating.

• 54:05Emma Grede?

  Do you still believe that?

• 54:07Speaker 01

  I think it's better today, by the way.

• 54:09Emma Grede?

  I was just gonna say, do you think there's still a good chance for like the good stuff to come through?

• 54:13Speaker 01

  Oh, I think it's better today.

• 54:15Emma Grede?

  Why? Because there were so many gatekeepers?

• 54:16Speaker 01

  There were so many different channels and as you say, gatekeepers, yeah. I think it's much, a brand can really tell its story from beginning to end today. And really authentically, and the consumer sees a pure experience of the brand, not someone else's point of view.

• 54:35Emma Grede?

  It feels to me like it's never been easier to start, but actually to have longevity, to have staying power still remains like elusive to so many companies. I don't know if I can remember like the new brands of three years ago, because they seem to come up and they go away. So what do brands need to do to actually create a meaningful, long-lasting business?

• 54:56Speaker 01

  You gotta do the right thing over and over again. And you gotta make product that's unique and different and that inspires the consumer. You can't just make what everyone else is making. For me, brands that start in one category of business and try to go to another category of business, just because this is successful in shoes doesn't make them successful in handbags. And I think a lot of clothing companies, they wanna go into shoes, they wanna go into bags, they wanna go into jewelry and they wanna do this, that. Most of the time it doesn't work because there's no authenticity and there's no expertise. I've stuck to clothing mostly because I'm an expert when it comes to clothing.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  When it comes to making shoes, I have no edge. So.

• 55:43Emma Grede?

  Sorry, I'm laughing because we all know about my, my failure in shoes. I'm just gonna take it squarely on the chin over here. You know, there is a moment now when like things are going so good in a brand that you're like, let me just do all the things, you know? And it was such a massive lesson for me because it wasn't until the failure of shoes that I understood what Good American was about. That's the honest truth. I thought I could pretty much do any category so long as I told a story around inclusivity. Like that's what was in my head. I was like, this business is about inclusivity. I learned after that this business was about fit and fabrication, period, end of. And I could not just apply that to any old category and be successful.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  The most important lesson you learned is from your failure.

• 56:28Emma Grede?

  Listen to Andrew.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  Which is absolutely correct. You never learn anything when you do it well.

• 56:34Emma Grede?

  It is true. It is absolutely so true.

• 56:37Speaker 01

  Don't do it well.

• 56:38Emma Grede?

  I wanna know if you were starting a business from scratch today, what kind of business would you start?

• 56:44Speaker 01

  I've been busy with T W P as of late, so I haven't really thought about starting something new because I'm right in the midst of what's going on there.

• 56:54Emma Grede?

  You always find something.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  I have a few new companies that I have my eye on that I'm gonna get involved in.

• 57:00Emma Grede?

  New places that I'll get a discount? How exciting.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  I like when a company has the ability to get known really quickly. And this, a lot of these influencers that really know how to cut through and be able to get their message across. And I think there's a real opportunity in some of them have not only the ability to understand how to cut through, but they also have a flair for fashion.

• 57:26Emma Grede?

  You're doing an influencer business without me? How rude. Who is this? Who is this bitch?

• 57:31Speaker 01

  So there's a few of those that I'm sort of interested in experimenting with.

• 57:35Emma Grede?

  I think there's actually a bunch of really good ones out there now.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:39Emma Grede?

  And some that definitely are going to like make it over that hump of like just selling to their immediate audience.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  I have something different to offer than other people because it's not really the money. Money is easy to get from a lot of people, but I'll have a point of view about, you know, what makes a clothing company successful. And there's not just one formula, but I mean, I, I think you have to be able to navigate the landscape. So I'm very interested in maybe one or two of these things and starting up, starting some new things. It's hard to start a company from scratch. It's really hard, super hard.

• 58:17Emma Grede?

  Do you caution against it? Like what, what would you say that somebody needs?

• 58:20Speaker 01

  Investing in a company from scratch is a mistake, but like T W P, I started from scratch. But I, I started T W P A because I had amazing confidence in Trish. And Trish, I think, I'm gonna do a little sales pitch now. Trish, I think is probably the best American designer that hasn't been discovered yet. I mean, she's created a whole new language of American sportswear. I mean, the style of the clothes, the, the, the, the fit, the, the combinations of what she's doing is incredible. Investing in companies, being partners in companies, you have to do things the way the founder wants to do them.

• 59:01Emma Grede?

  No doubt.

• 59:01Speaker 01

  And Trish and I sort of founded this together and she does what she does very, very, very well. And I have complete confidence in that. And I do what I do and she has complete confidence in, in that. And so we work really, really well together and it's been like a really rewarding thing. I said to my wife the other day, I wonder what life would been like if I hadn't started this. I think there was something missing.

• 59:25Emma Grede?

  I think that you would have found something else because there's no way you would have been fishing and on the golf course.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, but investing in, you know, founding a company, it's

• 59:33Emma Grede?

  Different.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  It's different and it's, it's hard. And you know, we started from scratch and I had enough confidence that I funded the whole thing myself. And we didn't go out to raise any money. And I didn't wanna have the responsibility of that and started and to really, you know, have the success that we've had has been really rewarding.

• 59:54Emma Grede?

  I was gonna say, but it's really working right now, right?

• 59:56Speaker 01

  Really working. I mean, it's really, it's, it's super exciting. You know, it gave me an opportunity to sort of start over again.

• 1:00:05Emma Grede?

  I think it's inspiring that at this sort of season in your life, you're still finding things that excite you this much.

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  I've learned a lot differently now of how I wanna run the business. Like I'm more teaching the people what to do than doing it myself. And I'm way more tolerant of the mistakes than I used to be. But at T W P, I'm there and I'm, I know everything that's going on, but I'm definitely much more of a mentor and a teacher and letting other people really do the heavy lifting. I'm not doing much heavy lifting.

• 1:00:42Emma Grede?

  It makes me laugh that you say that because I swear to God, I got my show invite from you. Okay, Andrew.

• 1:00:48Emma Grede?

  You're really like light touch over there. He's wrangling, he's in it, he's doing the clothes. I think it's amazing, again, like I said, I, I love that at the end of the day, you really care about the product and it's very, very clear that you wanna make something that is excellent and something that you can be proud of. And when you have that opportunity, that's what excites you. It isn't the other side of things because again, it's like you clearly don't need to do this. You don't have to do it. You do it for love of the, love of the thing, love of the game, love of the product, love of the whole situation.

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:24Emma Grede?

  And you know, you have clearly a great thing going on there. So I'm really happy for you.

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  You know, that's what I was, you know, I was born that way. And my father, my grandfather, that's the way it was.

• 1:01:38Emma Grede?

  As you get older now, and you could be doing a lot of other things with your time, like do you think about how work will stay in, what family means as you're now this like involved grandfather? Like where, where are you in your head with that?

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  Now I understand why you're so good is because you really are extremely intuitive about what's going on. I definitely am thinking about where everything fits in, but I'm still super passionate about the work. And I think I'm super passionate about the work because I'm really looking forward to what's coming tomorrow. And I'm not looking at what was here yesterday. In my golf game, I understand that this was as good as it's gonna get. And through my whole life playing golf, I always thought I could get better. Now I realize that isn't gonna happen. And I'm less interested in it. But in the work,

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  I still believe in what's going on in the future and the opportunities of the future. So I'm still balancing my work and my passions and my family. And it all fits in one nice, neat little box.

• 1:03:01Emma Grede?

  That's a really great way to think about it. You've still got places to go.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  I still have places to go.

• 1:03:06Emma Grede?

  Andrew, if people could take just one thing from your story, what would you actually want it to be?

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  I just want people to understand that I really care and that I have a lot of compassion and commitment to the community that I'm involved in. Maybe I'm not somebody who's going to be involved in lots of committees and different community things and so on. But the community that I'm involved with, those people that are connected to me, I'm incredibly committed and passionate and responsible to and for.

• 1:03:45Emma Grede?

  What do you still aspire?

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  Your husband is one of those, by the way.

• 1:03:49Emma Grede?

  Isn't he?

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 1:03:51Emma Grede?

  Are you on the phone every single day? I'm always like, who are you on the phone to, Andrew? What are you? Actually, it's an interesting question. Before I ask you my last question, I'm interested, what do you think that you saw in me when I first met you? Like, was there anything there? Or did you just think, oh, like, I take a punt? Like, what do you think?

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  Ambitious. And smart.

• 1:04:17Emma Grede?

  I'll take it.

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  There was an ambition that was, yeah, burning a hole in things.

• 1:04:25Emma Grede?

  That's true. That's true. I'll take it. What do you still aspire to be or to become?

• 1:04:30Speaker 01

  Hopefully, it's already happened. But no, what has happened is enough. I don't really need any more. But I want my horses to run faster. I want the fish I'm catching to be bigger. I still want my golf game to get back to where it was. I mean, I want to enjoy my life. And I want to spend it with, you know, the people that are meaningful to me. And, you know, I'm definitely still ambitious. Maybe not quite as ambitious as you, but still ambitious. I just want to enjoy my life. And I want to do things that, that, you know, inspire me.

• 1:05:12Emma Grede?

  Andrew, I'm gonna move you to rapid fire. Quick ones. What's the first thing you do in the morning?

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  Call my horse trainers, horse trainers in England.

• 1:05:21Emma Grede?

  Is that the first thing you do?

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  Because of the time difference, absolutely.

• 1:05:24Emma Grede?

  Oh, you've got to get on that. You've got to get on it.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 1:05:27Emma Grede?

  Last thing you do at night?

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  I read the T D N, Thirdbread Daily News.

• 1:05:32Emma Grede?

  These horses are taking over. They're T D N.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  The horses start in the morning and close at night.

• 1:05:39Emma Grede?

  What is the best way to get into fashion right now?

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  If you're a young person graduating from school, and you want to get into fashion, find a company that inspires you. If you want to start your own company, do it with clothing that, you know, or products that inspire you. There's no rule here. Just find something you love.

• 1:06:01Emma Grede?

  And do it.

• 1:06:02Speaker 01

  And do it.

• 1:06:03Emma Grede?

  What's the best advice you've ever been given?

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  I think it was what my father said. People don't have to like you, they have to respect you.

• 1:06:11Emma Grede?

  It's a really good one. Okay, you're gonna hate this question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. If you had to give this chapter of your life a title, what would it be?

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't, that's a little too final for me.

• 1:06:28Emma Grede?

  That's a good enough answer. We're not giving it a name. Andrew Rosen, thank you for being on Aspire.

• 1:06:33Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:06:34Emma Grede?

  You're so good. You're so amazing, Andrew.

• 1:06:42Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Our executive producers are Ashley McShan, Derek Brown, and me. Executive producers from Odyssey are Asha Saluja and Leah Reese Dennis. Producer, KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Phil Sweetech and Carla Stelgardo. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale. Special

• 1:07:25Emma Grede?

  thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company, and WME, Josefina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Meekle, Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Viera. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemmagreed. Grede is spelled G R E D E. That's aspire, A S P I R E, with Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.