Harris v. Trump: The Day After with Tressie McMillan Cottom

Donald Trump will be president again. Trevor, Christiana, and Josh are joined once again by Tressie McMillan Cottom to puzzle through whether Trump won this election, or Harris lost it. Plus, they offer their picks for the best post-election playlist ever.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Trevor Noah?

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• 0:42Trevor Noah?

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• 1:26Trevor Noah?

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• 1:49Trevor Noah?

  And I thought, why not start it with a feeling? If, if you were to choose a song for the moment that you're experiencing right now, post-election?

• 2:02Trevor Noah?

  What song would you pick? Because I've had a few spinning in my head. And I feel like this is like something that I know part of it is an ADHD brain. But I always wake up with songs playing in my head. But I've started to notice that there's a correlation between the song and the latent emotion that I'm experiencing. And two of the songs, I Will Survive has been playing. And not even just for me, but for everyone. I don't know why. But you know me, Christiana, I'm the eternal optimist. So I Will Survive has been blaring in my head. And then the other one has been.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a good one.

• 2:35Trevor Noah?

  America. That's been, that's all that's been going on. But if you were to pick one song right now for this moment, for how you feel, what would it be?

• 2:43Speaker 01

  I'll go after Tressie. Because Tressie's been up all night. She's been up more than anyone else. So I feel like you have more songs.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  You know, you think people are your homies and you see what happens. For whatever reason, Trevor, when you said this, I had nothing in mind.

• 2:59Trevor Noah?

  You have no music in your head? That's how bad it is?

• 3:01Speaker 02

  No, but the minute you said it, for whatever reason, all I could hear was, "America, I only wanted to see you crying in the purple rain."

• 3:12Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  Purple rain.

• 3:14Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  I don't know. It just, you know that moment in Purple Rain when you are crying, but you don't know why? I'm not sure who this song's about. I'm not sure why it's so sad. But it feels like a eulogy.

• 3:28Trevor Noah?

  It feels like a eulogy. Josh?

• 3:30Speaker 03

  Um, yeah.

• 3:31Trevor Noah?

  Which J. Cole song is in your head right now?

• 3:34Speaker 03

  Wow, wow. I, I, there's more to me than that. Uh, I have Diana Ross's I'm Coming Out. Because I think that, I think that to a certain degree now.

• 3:47Speaker 02

  That's good.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  People know.

• 3:50Speaker 03

  Do you know what I mean?

• 3:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's good.

• 3:51Speaker 03

  We can't act like we don't know. I think this is the last time, while at least the people alive now are alive, that they can act shocked.

• 3:58Trevor Noah?

  Oh, damn. Okay. I like this.

• 4:02Trevor Noah?

  I like this.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's good.

• 4:03Trevor Noah?

  All right, Christiana.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Good.

• 4:04Trevor Noah?

  What's your song?

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Oh my god, it's gonna sound so pretentious. That's why I'm like afraid to say it.

• 4:10Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but throw it, throw it. Everything is lost anyway now, so just throw it in.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  So, well, the Pentecostal Emmy, the first song was like "No Weapon" by Fred Hammond, where it's like "No weapon formed against me shall prosper." But that's like what I feel like when somebody speeds past me in traffic. So I don't know if it's like for this moment. And there's a waltz by Chopin in C sharp minor that I love. It's a very romantic and sad song, and I played it during the pandemic. And it came up today, so that was, that's kind of my mood.

• 4:38Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  I hate to sound like this.

• 4:39Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, that, I mean, that was...

• 4:41Speaker 02

  Is that a song from Bridgerton?

• 4:43Speaker 01

  I don't know if it's in Bridgerton, but it's like, it's like one of his most famous movements.

• 4:48Trevor Noah?

  Oh, wow.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  Got it.

• 4:49Speaker 03

  Once people say what Kia song is in, I can tell they read.

• 4:54Trevor Noah?

  It's...

• 4:54Speaker 03

  That's, that's, that's what people do that read. They, they know the keys of songs.

• 5:00Trevor Noah?

  That is it. I remember, I remember realizing how far I am from Sophisticated when Alicia Keys' album came out, Songs in A Minor. And I thought that she was saying Songs in a Minor, like she was a young child growing up. And that's what the songs were. And then like somebody said it one day, they're like, Songs in A Minor. And I was like, yeah, Songs in a Minor. And they're like, no, in A Minor. And I was like, oh man, I'm very far from going to the opera.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  My favorite fact about that album is that most of the songs are not in A Minor.

• 5:28Speaker 02

  Oh, shame.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  That's just like...

• 5:31Trevor Noah?

  Well, look at...

• 5:32Speaker 01

  You know, but maybe this is why progressives lose elections, because there's some pretension, right? You're fact checking an Alicia Keys album. The country doesn't want that.

• 5:43Speaker 04

  This will truly be the golden age of America.

• 5:51Trevor Noah?

  This is What Now? with Trevor Noah.

• 6:08Trevor Noah?

  So, welcome, everybody. Welcome to all of you, my friends, and welcome to everybody who is, who is listening and joining us for our first post-election podcast. Donald J. Trump won the election, in case you didn't know this. It's pretty insane. I'm, I'm, I'm in Australia now. I was in New Zealand when the results came out. And it's wild how this is like an international election in a way that, like, growing up, we knew who America's president was. But we didn't follow the election the way we did. I was in New Zealand, watching New Zealand TV in Auckland, and they were talking about Maricopa County.

• 6:49Trevor Noah?

  Do you understand how strange it is, listening to people, and they're like, "Well, yeah, and if you, if you look at the results coming out of DeKalb, it looks like Trump's really surging right now, and this could be a moment in time when the Trump president..." And you're just like, "I'm in New Zealand, and these people are as transfixed by this thing as everybody else." You know, it's funny, Tracy, I was thinking back to our conversations, I was thinking back to your writing, and, and I went back and I read, like, everything that you, I guess it was a conversation that you did for the New York Times, five days before the election. And as, as much as you were trying to, like, give us hope, when I look at your words, you were basically just telling us, weren't you? You just, you just told it.

• 7:33Trevor Noah?

  You kept on saying, "It's not looking good."

• 7:36Speaker 02

  Well, you know, it's really tough. My job is to tell things as truthfully as I can. I try to do that well, and sometimes beautifully, that's all I can manage. But when emotions are high, like they were during this election, even I feel a little responsible for people's emotional well-being, you know? And I knew that it wasn't that people were following the polls, it wasn't that people, I think, were looking at the, the foundational issues. I don't think they were looking at the fundamentals. This was an emotion-driven response. So when my friends and my peer group, who, you know, spoiler alert, are overwhelmingly liberal and left,

• 8:21Speaker 02

  were turning to me and going like, you know, what do you think? I knew they didn't mean, really, what do I think? They meant make me feel better, right? Like, people, this was a moment when people needed church, and unfortunately, you know, enough of them don't go to church. They were just looking for like some secular, you know, preaching. And the problem is that I'm not a great preacher. But yes, that was me doing my best to say, well, you know, there's hope over yonder. And in the by and the by. I mean, I don't know, I didn't know what else to say.

• 8:53Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but you, you know, you said the thing. And you said it time and time again. You said it's not looking good. And, and maybe, this is the, this is the first thing that I wanted us to all talk about. You know, because post-election, and you know, Josh, you and I speak about this all the time for sports and for the elections and everything else. I love how everybody reverse engineers everything to match the conclusion. I saw pundits on TV, on the news, talking about why Harris was gonna win and why Trump was gonna lose. And then a day later, saying, well, I'll tell you why Harris was always gonna lose. And she did everything wrong. And, and Trump did everything right. And, and I, I just go like, what do you think happened here?

• 9:37Trevor Noah?

  Do you think Donald Trump won the election? Or do you think Kamala Harris lost the election?

• 9:44Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a great question, Trevor.

• 9:45Speaker 02

  That's a great way to frame it, too.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  That's a great question.

• 9:48Speaker 03

  I will probably have like the least critical analysis. I'll just go first, so that everyone can forget my answer. I do.

• 9:57Trevor Noah?

  It's gonna be the best answer, watch this.

• 9:59Speaker 03

  I, I do.

• 10:00Trevor Noah?

  Under, under-deliver, over-promised Josh Johnson.

• 10:03Speaker 03

  Nah.

• 10:04Trevor Noah?

  2028, I'm voting for you.

• 10:05Speaker 03

  Really just handed you it exactly as I see it. Really whelming you. So, basically, I think that it was a little bit more about Harris losing, or at least that's gonna become the story of it. And she lost more votes than losing to Trump. She lost to like, the memory of Joe Biden, who we weren't excited about when that was happening. We were like, that guy's not well, when he ran the first time. Was like, a thing that people whispered. And so, I think that there's also gonna be a thing for Dems. I think that Dems have more to assess and learn,

• 10:48Speaker 03

  and people to listen to, than like, Republicans do. Because you learn the least when you win. And, and I think that's actually what sets people up to lose next time. Because they're like, no, we'll just do win again.

• 11:00Trevor Noah?

  We do more, yeah.

• 11:01Speaker 03

  You know what I mean?

• 11:02Speaker 02

  That is, I'm serious, that was brilliant. See, I think Trevor's right, you way.

• 11:08Trevor Noah?

  Josh, I know, I know Josh Johnson. I know, let me tell you something, I know Josh Johnson. If, if my life was in danger, and I called five people, and four of them said, we'll save your life, Josh would say, oh, I don't know if I can help, but I'll try. That man is showing up with a rope, and he's pulling me out of that cabin. Let me tell you something now, I know Josh Johnson. Under-promise, over-deliver, that's what he does. I wanna, I wanna, I'm, I'm running your polls, Josh, you see? I predicted.

• 11:34Speaker 03

  No.

• 11:36Trevor Noah?

  You know, it's, it's funny that you say that. I, I couldn't help feeling that, and I, I don't wanna, I don't wanna say something that's too prescriptive about American politics forever. But it feels like, America has gotten to the place where its politics is exactly like sports. In that, teams only show up when it's an elimination game. And if the players don't feel like it's an elimination game, people don't show up. Do you know what I mean? So, when I, when I think of like, Trump 2016. His people played like it was an elimination game. Like for real, for real, they showed up, they were like, this is the end of everything. Remember, they had been coming out of eight years of Obama where they saw the end of their lives.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:14Trevor Noah?

  They were like, we are fighting for the future of this country. This is, this is it. It's over. And, and they voted accordingly, right? Then, when Trump was in power, his people are like, yeah, he's in power. And then everyone else is voting for Biden because it's COVID and everyone's like, we have to vote because otherwise we're all gonna die. We are literally all gonna die in our apartments scrubbing packages because Fauci told us to. And then now, Trump's people again are like, it's the end. Like you, you saw the, the Rogan, I don't know if you watched the, the Rogan interview with Elon Musk. I found really interesting because it was a very like somber mood. It wasn't like a bro-y thing. They were very much like, this is the end of democracy. And if we do not make this moment last, if we do not make this thing count,

• 12:59Trevor Noah?

  this will be the last time we ever see an election ever again. And I feel like they voted like that. And then Kamala's people were just like, I don't know, I don't know, you know?

• 13:10Speaker 01

  I don't know. I, um, your original question about like, did Kamala lose or Trump win? I feel a lot of voters that went for Trump didn't necessarily vote for him. They voted as an F U to the Democrat establishment.

• 13:25Trevor Noah?

  Wow, you, you think that many of them?

• 13:27Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I think that like, the problem with the Democrats is that they think they're better, but they won't admit that they think they're better.

• 13:34Trevor Noah?

  Right. Fake humility is worse than arrogance.

• 13:37Speaker 01

  Fake humility is worse than arrogance. And I think that they are sick of being spoken down to about the wrong things. I think they're sick of their concerns being dismissed. Whether these concerns are over like immigration, over economy, over quote unquote, black jobs. And the Democrats have never kind of taken that seriously. They've kind of like, you know, Obama came out and wagged his fingers at black men in a way that I thought was not appropriate. And I think enough people are tired of that to either stay at home. I think Palestine was another issue as well. They're like, we're gonna stay at home. Like, you're not gonna hold my vote for ransom. And they were saying. More F you to the Democrats than that they love Trump.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  But I think Trump now has made it so that he's probably one of the most consequential American political figures.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Since maybe Reagan.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Roosevelt. I think he'll go down in history as that for good and for bad, right? Um, but that I think we can make it all about Trump's, but we're we're missing that the alternative have failed terribly. And as Tressie, as you said last week, like it's not enough to say we're not Trump. And that's all they were telling people.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  And that was not enough.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  It sounds like you're saying Kamala lost for you, like she lost.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  No, I do you know what? Well, this is the thing I I want to push back on that because I feel like they handed the black woman the poison chalice. And now we're supposed to throw her under the bus and say, and I'm like, no, Nancy Pelosi and all those elites, they lost. And she was a figurehead.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  Okay, so then do we want to say the Democrats lost?

• 15:09Speaker 01

  I say the Democrat establishment completely lost. And I think they became complacent.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  When Biden won, right? They became very complacent. And Biden was supposed to run again. They didn't do a primary. There's so many things that they did wrong. But I I I just don't want to say like Kamala lost. I'm like, no, the old guard who Obama is now part of, right? The old guard of the Democrat Party. I believe they lost collectively because they're completely out of touch with what Americans want. And Trump, even if it's to their lower impulses, he knows how people feel.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  One, thanking you, Christiana, for saying, I'm also really want to push back on did Kamala lose? Again, as somebody who has is on record saying, I thought she was an imperfect candidate, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But I also know from both research and my own lived experience that it is really easy and convenient for everybody to blame the black woman. And so I just, you know, always want to stand on that. Having said that, I talked to a lot of people in the run up to this election who um should have been excited. And when I say excited, I think people thought I meant enthusiastic. But Trevor, I mean, excited like you mean, which is that they felt a sense of urgency.

• 16:18Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  A sense of like collective will and collective responsibility. And they were not scared of a day after Trump's reelection.

• 16:28Trevor Noah?

  No.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  The Democrats assumed that saying Trump could be reelected was self-evident. That saying that in and of itself was gonna be so cataclysmically bad. And people would remember how bad it was and remember it the way they think they should remember it. To the point of arrogance, by the way. I think there's a lot of hubris and arrogance in that. And instead, I talked to like, and not just like leftists who were mad on policy issues. I talked to Democrats, or should be Democrats, who were like, Trump wins, is my life really that much different? Than it is today? Um, that's a problem for Democrats who were running not on a platform promoting why Kamala was a better candidate. But promoting why Trump was dangerous.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  And if that's the only, you know, if that's the drum you're beating, then people need to feel the urgency of that danger. And I kept saying, I'm not seeing it. I'm talking to people who should be terrified, including women, young women, who should be terrified post-Dobbs. And they weren't. And lots of reasons, I think, for that. But the Democrats did not respond to the right emotional impulse that people had. And so people, listen, I think Tuesday or the week before the election can roll around and you can intend to vote. You can think voting would be pretty good, pretty decent to do. But that's not the same kind of urgency that I think a first black woman candidate with a three-month-long campaign needed. She needed people to feel like, if I don't go vote, I'm going to die.

• 18:00Speaker 02

  And they didn't.

• 18:01Speaker 03

  I mean, one thing to really back up everything that Tracy is saying. There's messaging that cannot all be left to one person. I, I think that by and large, most of the people that I talked to, we lost on the economy. And it feels crazy that, that, uh, Dems lost on the economy because all of at least the public billionaires are backing Trump. So if you are a poor person and life is, is, is not going well for you and inflation is chasing you. Cause I even, I've even talked about this with friends. Inflation, especially when you talk about inflation during Halloween. Inflation is the killer with the knife. And you- As the person who is broke are the person running with a broken heel.

• 18:44Speaker 03

  So you see in the movie when you're running with a broken heel and inflation not even bothering to run. Inflation walking behind you because they know they're going to get you eventually. It's all the rich people who are the track stars who already got away that are like, that's terrible, right? If all of the public billionaires are backing a supposed billionaire telling you they're going to make the economy better for you. And you believe that, that is some, that is some true short sightedness because as Dems, you could be like, listen. I'm not even going to go after the billionaires because I know those are the billionaires y'all like. I'm gonna go after, you talk about eggs, right? Price of eggs, okay. It's over for Walmart. We're not going to let Walmart price gouge you anymore.

• 19:25Speaker 03

  And I think that that is a thing that was like so. That, that could have been so consequential because that's something that is not at all divisive. Who likes the prices of their eggs being hot, you know what I mean? So there were little things like that, party wise, that's like, that's like, you could have attacked this thing. Because what a lot of Republicans did is be like, listen, they're going to make your kids gay and trans. These people are the enemy, whatever. You can't enemy the enemy all the time, but you can make an enemy out of an actual entity that is, that is hurting you. And that's when you could have been like, he wants to do this for the economy, that tariff thing's not going to work. The price gougers are what we're going to take out.

• 20:07Trevor Noah?

  So here, I agree with you fundamentally, but this is where I come back to what Christiana started this conversation on. Chopin in, what, what was it? C, C, C major? C sharp?

• 20:20Speaker 01

  C sharp minor.

• 20:22Trevor Noah?

  So here, here's what I, here's what I feel about this. And, and, and I've had this feeling since, from the time I was hosting The Daily Show. And you remember sitting there, Josh and Christiana, and us sitting in, in these rooms, watching the debates, et cetera. I still say it till this day. I think we take for granted that most people who are voting do not have access to the answer, nor the vocabulary of the answer that like the skilled people have. Do you get what I'm saying? So I agree with you, Josh. But the difference between the two people is like, if you said to Donald Trump, "Hey, Donald Trump, eggs are expensive." Do you know what Donald Trump said? He came out and he's like, "When I'm president, eggs are gonna go down. We're gonna take the prices down, folks.

• 21:05Trevor Noah?

  I'm gonna bring your energy bill down by 50%. You hear me? 50%." No one said how, no one said why. He just said, "I'm gonna do it." And then they say, "How are you gonna do it?" Then he says, "Tariffs. I'm gonna make them pay more." And now economists go, "Oh, no, you see a tariff. If you just apply a tariff like this, what's gonna happen is that you've got supply and demand, and then on the outside, with the tariff, we are actually paying for a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." But people on the ground were like, "Yeah, he's gonna make China pay for my eggs." Now, if you know how to play the piano and you know what C sharp minor is, you're gonna look at Trump quote-unquote singing the song or playing the song, and you're like, "That doesn't make sense. He's off-key." But for the person in the street, for most people, I would argue, what I call the layman,

• 21:49Trevor Noah?

  the difference is, most people are hearing this as, "Ah, this person knows music and they can sing." This person just said C sharp minor. I don't know what that is, and I don't even know who this Chopin rapper might or might not be. I don't keep up with it. What I do know is, this person gave me an answer. And now, I'm not just saying Kamala and Trump, by the way. I'm using them as like the stars of the teams, you know, Jason Tatum, LeBron James. Let's say that, you know, it's the Democrats and the Republicans. One thing throughout this race that the Republicans did well was they distilled it down to an issue that you could identify with, and they made it seem simple in how they were gonna fix it. Whether or not it will be fixed is almost irrelevant,

• 22:31Trevor Noah?

  but it was a lot easier to understand as opposed to the levers of an economy that no one, no one understands about. No one, no one really understands those things.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think the Republicans have a long history of having elites that know how to play the four. Because no one is more elite than Donald Trump. No one is more elite than George Bush in terms of their education.

• 22:52Trevor Noah?

  He's not playing the four, though, but yes, but let's carry on.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  These are like boarding school Ivy League.

• 22:57Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  Why, who's not paid either?

• 22:59Trevor Noah?

  Donald Trump is a simple man. Donald Trump, he's, he's, he's from, he's from money, but he's a simple man. That man cannot break down a complicated concept for you because it's, it's complicated to him. He's a simple guy.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Sure, but I, I think he's probably more exposed than the people he's speaking to at his rallies. But he's not saying that this is like a biony suit.

• 23:19Trevor Noah?

  Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  That is custom, even though it looks like shit. He's putting that aside, right? Which George Bush was very good at. Hence why they wanted to have a beer with him, right? He was like, these people are far more calculating than I think we give them credit for. And they're populist. And I think the Democrats, for a long time, have believed that's beneath them, right? So they're gonna say C sharp minor rather than it's a good song.

• 23:43Trevor Noah?

  It's catchy.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean? Um, and my issue is, is that we, we've let these people stay in power for so long. Because the funny thing about Trump is people forget he has hijacked the party. We don't know what comes after him. But he just hijacked it and he's pulled it to the right. And I feel, I feel now the Democrat Party is up for the taking. You can burn it down and you can hijack it and pull it to the left with populist language. Like, just like my limited understanding in the time I've lived here. I've seen swings and it's a country that enjoys to swing, to swing. I think Trump is the ying to Obama's yang. So now it's, it's up for the take, like AOC and like those, the squad, they can burn it down and do whatever.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  And I think that's what needs to come next. That the establishment just needs to be raised because they can't win. They don't know how to do it. But there is an incredible opportunity.

• 24:39Trevor Noah?

  We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break.

• 24:46Trevor Noah?

  Some of the most interesting things you learn happen while you're doing something completely ordinary. Maybe you're cooking dinner while watching a history video. Maybe you're on a flight catching up on a long form interview. Or maybe you're trying to figure out how to fix something in your house because apparently owning a screwdriver means you're an electrician now. But you see, that's one of the things I love about YouTube Premium. I travel a lot, so I download videos before a flight. That way, I'm not leaving my entertainment in the hands of airplane wifi. Yeah, I've made that mistake before. You think you're gonna watch something in 4K and suddenly everyone's face is pixels. But one of my favorite features is smart downloads.

• 25:27Trevor Noah?

  You see, YouTube Premium can automatically download recommended videos for you based on what you already watch. So sometimes I'll get on a plane, I look at my phone, I'm like, ah, I didn't download anything. Then it's like, no, YouTube already thought about this. They packed entertainment for me in my little lunchbox. And with background play, I can lock my phone, switch apps, and whatever I'm watching just keeps on going. So, if you like YouTube, you will love YouTube Premium. Sign up now for your free trial at youtube.com/premium. Terms apply. Cancel anytime. This segment is brought to you by Google Pixel. Every day, it feels like I'm on a new scavenger hunt, but not the fun kind.

• 26:10Trevor Noah?

  I'm constantly switching between countless apps just to try and find the information that I need. Like the other day, I was trying to find the address of a restaurant someone had sent me. Simple enough, right? But then, this is what happened. I opened my messages. I saw a video somebody sent me of a parrot singing opera. And then, the next thing I know, I'm watching an interview with a woman who trains parrots. 20 minutes later, I know the average lifespan of a macaw. I've forgotten where I'm supposed to have dinner, and I'm wondering whether I have what it takes to raise a bird that might outlive me. Enough with digital rabbit holes. Thankfully, my Google Pixel 11 is designed with Gemini Intelligence. Helpful suggestions pop up right in the text thread when I'm making plans,

• 26:51Trevor Noah?

  proactively pulling up restaurant details, calendar availability, or live flight info. The info you need, right when you need it. Learn more about what the Google Pixel 11 can do at googlestore.com. These AI features are available in select countries and languages. For users 18 and older, make sure to check responses. Therapy is one of those things lots of people talk themselves out of without even realizing it. Like, it's too expensive or it's too overwhelming figuring out even where you're gonna start. But Rula is one way to make that first step feel a lot more doable. Offering accessible, affordable therapy that fits your needs. Sign up in just a few minutes and get matched with a therapist who fits what you're looking for.

• 27:36Trevor Noah?

  Need to talk to someone quickly? Appointments are often available as soon as the next day. And with insurance, sessions average around a $15 copay. You can also see estimated costs upfront, so there's a lot more clarity going in. And in terms of outcomes, 93% of Rula patients report symptom improvement. If therapy's been sitting in the back of your mind, Rula is a pretty simple way to take that first step. So, turn off the talk track that's keeping you from progress and head to rula.com. That's R U L A dot com to find a therapist the easy way.

• 28:17Trevor Noah?

  As an African, I think we should never take for granted the possibility of somebody leading long after they're technically the leader. And I think Trump, you see what you said is very, is very important. He has hijacked the Republican Party, right? I see a world, a possibility where he went, he's won now, obviously. He's won, he's president. Maybe he does 22nd Amendment, maybe he doesn't. I think that's less likely. But I can see a world where he becomes kingmaker of the Republican Party for as long as he's copas mentis and alive and savvy. Where he says, where he basically goes, you are now going to vote for J D Vance? And I'm technically not running, but you, this is my thing and his people will still go with him. For what he wants. You don't think so, Josh?

• 29:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think if you.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  I think it's gonna be the inverse. I think it's gonna be, he's gonna be Mugabe.

• 29:07Speaker 03

  Yes, I think if you look at some of the senate races, think that like, there's one thing when, when Trump is coming to town, it is like when the pop star's coming to town. So if there's a rally for the candidate and the pop star is like, oh, they're doing a feature, they're opening for me, that's cool for the day. And if that's very close to the election, then I think it does swing some ways. But like, if you don't have Trump's swag, you're not gonna carry Trump's torch. And I think that we saw a little bit of that in 2022. That if you're uncharis- Tiki torch, exactly, yeah. If you're uncharismatic enough and if you just don't, if you don't know what to do next, like if you're possibly looking to Trump for real policy, you're gonna drown yourself.

• 29:48Speaker 02

  I agree with this, which is that Trump, uh, you know, it's on the record that Trump is actually a horrible endorsement to get, right? He does not, he does not positively influence down-ballot races. So, most of the candidates that he endorses lose, lose badly.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  But, running for president is actually, I think, a slightly different beast. So like, no, I don't think he can be a kingmaker for governors. Goodness, no. Um, he doesn't have the, the level of detail and follow-through necessary to get into the weeds of state and local politics and the intricacies of things like that. What he has proven can happen, however, with presidential politics, and I think he has changed this probably for my lifetime, y'all. I, I think he's changed it. Because what he has done is he has stress-tested the system and said, this is what you can get away with and still win. Right? There's, the, the, the structure of electoral politics in this country is set up for a two-party system. It doesn't matter how bad one of those parties is. Doesn't matter how undemocratic one of those parties is, right?

• 30:50Speaker 02

  So, at the presidential level, he has also proven, you can kinda shock and awe with presidential politics in a way that you cannot in a state or local race. And state and local races, those people have to live there. Right? Like, there's only so much a governor can do when his kid still goes to school down the street. And he starts to, you know, he still has to live there.

• 31:10Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 31:10Speaker 02

  At the presidential level, you're voting for personality in a way that you aren't in local and state races, which is why I think Trump doesn't translate well in the, into those races. But, unfortunately, presidential politics has become basically a competition of, you know, chara- characters and, you know, uh, wrestling characters, right? Um, I don't think people, to Christiana's point, really care about policy. They care that somebody knows the policy, to a certain extent. Um, but, you're right, I don't think people want- To get into the weeds, I think that is absolute hubris on Democrats' part that if they just sit people down with enough white papers, right, they'll get them to understand. Trump is understood intuitively, by the way.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  I'm, I don't think this is really like a conscious strategy, but he understands intuitively that what people want is they want to feel good. And that is actually good enough in presidential politics to not maybe run the board, but certainly to build you a base. And that's what presidential politics need. They need a base. So I can see a future where there's a J D Vance with a Trump uh in the shadow, who adds the, the messaging, because he is very good at the messaging. J D Vance is not, he sucks at it. Very, very good. Vance is good at strategy. He knows how to win and he knows how to govern something that Donald Trump is not good at doing. And I actually think that you put those two things together and the presidential level, Trump can still be uh quite a kingmaker.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  He also can bring the money to the table and presidential politics, money matters so much. Um, and this, you know, unholy alliance with people like, you know, Elon Musk and Peter Thiel, I think it would matter in presidential politics.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  That's so interesting because I don't know, maybe this, maybe it's why I feel so zen about it. Because I, I think he's gonna destroy himself in the way that Nixon did because of his deep seated insecurity. But I think if we look at the, because we're focusing on the fact he won, he was incredibly sloppy. He wasn't a sharp, he wasn't the same Trump that, you know, came down that escalator. Um, and my feeling is, is that he's going to decline because he's seventy eight years old and there's only so much evil and petty that can keep you strong for that long. It is. And when I say it's gonna be Mugabe, they're gonna, is in the way what they did with Biden, you're kind of pushing this old guy out.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  He's a puppet and you get what you want behind the scenes. I just think it's just age is gonna catch up with him. Um, and I think we're already witnessing a lot of his cognitive decline and his sloppiness, which is a scary thing.

• 33:50Trevor Noah?

  Wait, you, you actually, you think that? I, I'll be honest with you. I don't see that.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I do.

• 33:55Trevor Noah?

  I don't see like.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  He wasn't a sharp. He wasn't a sharp. There was a reason those people were leaving the rallies.

• 34:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, he doesn't have juice the same way.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  It's not the same Trump. And that's why I say the Democrats blew it. Cause they lost against that guy in the current state.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  No, he's not peak Trump, but he is still formidable. I, I, I don't, yeah.

• 34:17Speaker 01

  No, I agree. I agree. He's formidable. I'm not, I mean, it's kind of like, I don't know, a boxer. I'm, I'm terrible with sports analogies. I will leave it to like Trevor and Josh. I, I think he is in decline, but even in decline, he could be, he could beat Blue. And that says a lot about the state of Blue. That's just.

• 34:35Speaker 03

  Yes, yes, exactly.

• 34:36Trevor Noah?

  That I agree with completely. I would argue that Trump hasn't gotten sloppy. I think that Trump is Trump. He's just, the guy really put the work in for this like election. The guy was like flying between multiple stops. He was doing multiple shows.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  Cause he's scared of going to jail.

• 34:51Trevor Noah?

  He was at multiple rallies. Exactly. That was a hell of a motivation. Him and his January six people are like, all right, we're fighting for our lives here. And you know better than anyone, Josh, you and I both, we talk about this all the time. When you're a comedian, you're on the road. You have your jokes, you have your set, you're doing your thing. There's a fine balance between doing the show that you're doing and working the new stuff that you hopefully want to become something great over time. Like you have to watch out for how sloppy you could become if you took every gig that comes your way because it's inevitable. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you are in decline. You know what I mean?

• 35:27Speaker 03

  But I think that like what you're, what you're saying is like, if, you know, if you tour enough and if you're doing enough, then like it starts to all sort of get, get mushy. I think the actual mush is coming from one, even his base is kind of used to him at this point. There's not as much.

• 35:44Trevor Noah?

  That is true.

• 35:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's not as much shock and awe to the shock and awe. So the shock and awe is more become. We're shocked that he doesn't care that his things translate into the real world faster than they ever have. Cause that's what's happening. So he says they're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats and we laugh at him, right? Cause that's what we're used to from 2016. But when the bomb threats come in the next day. That's where we're like, oh wow, not only are people bold, they're reacting faster. Like the, the whole like. Anti-immigrant stuff with Mexicans. It took a little while and it took him winning for it to get really bold. Now this took like three days, right? And I think that that shock and awe is more an attitude than it is what he's saying.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  And I think that that's where people like are starting to fall off of him. So I, I get what you're saying, but I, I agree with Christian a little bit more where even if it's not cognitive decline. We're getting so used to Trump that it becomes like, like. You, you're not surprised anymore.

• 36:46Trevor Noah?

  No, that's, yeah, that's valid.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  I agree with all of this, but when we say Trump. See, I think that Trump is more than Donald J. Trump. And so like he's 78 and he may be slowing down a bit and I agree that his material is getting slow. But y'all, I looked at that RNC, I looked at that Republican National Convention. And homeboy has a bench. Right? His family alone, we keep talking about his relationship with J.D. Vance, but his son is the one who brought J.D. Vance into the fold.

• 37:14Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  That, you know, Trump is now a style of politicking. It is a dynasty like the Bushes were. Right? Like Obama coincidentally has not managed to build. That's part of the reason why the Democrats are suffering. We were supposed to be transitioning to a new dynasty and it's not there. But Trump is actually presenting one. It is that daughter-in-law, that creepy Laura girl. I'm sorry.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  You know? And that's before we get to the acolytes. Uh, that are in the Senate. Um, the Matt Gaetzes of the world, for example. Trump is now a style of. Politics. And when I say that Trump owns the G GOP, I mean both the man. And again, what he has proven is possible for other people in his mold and who are quite committed to him. I was just talking to somebody yesterday, um, not a Trump supporter, but who has worked with him in a professional capacity. And he's like, what people miss is that the people in Trump's inner circle are loyal to him.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:18Speaker 02

  They like that man because he's good to them in the way that they understand transactionally, but it's good to them, right? Um, and so I think we're dealing with a Trump entity. For the foreseeable future, whether Trump declines or not. And so when I say that there's a kingmaker, I think kissing the ring. Whichever one of the Trumps is wearing the ring at the moment, right?

• 38:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  It'll be in his image.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  Like Trumpism as an ideology, I feel that's it's lasted longer than I have anticipated. And, you know, you're seeing flashes of it all over Western Europe. Cause now you're like, oh, I couldn't lie, double down on the lie. Say it's fake news and it didn't happen, right? So it's just like, it's even in our like common language.

• 39:05Trevor Noah?

  It's funny, as I actually came around to what I think your point is, and I think I may agree with you. So, you know, it's, it's funny. I think sports is a perfect analogy for most things because it's like, has, it has such a, it has such a particular structure and support that matches up with politics. And so forgive me for going to sport, but I, I think of it like this. In every sports league, especially when sports are like the leagues are young, there are generally one or two teams that define the league. You know, so in basketball, there'll be like a few teams. They'll be like, oh, it's the Lakers and it's the Celtics and those are the teams. And they define the game and that's what the game is.

• 39:43Trevor Noah?

  You know, in, in soccer, it'll be the same depending on which country you're in. They'll be like, this is the team. It's Manchester United and it's Arsenal. It's these are the teams that. And then what happens is like in basketball, for instance, Steph Curry comes along.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:57Trevor Noah?

  Steph Curry comes along and breaks the game of basketball in a way that nobody ever anticipated. He goes.

• 40:05Trevor Noah?

  Actually, you don't need to go to the rim all the time. You should just shoot the ball from far. And statistically, it actually is gonna work out better for you. And then it grows, and it grows, and the Golden State Warriors gets better and better. And I remember the basketball world going, what, what has happened here? We knew basketball, and now we don't. And I, I argue the game of basketball has never been the same ever since, right? And so in a weird way, I think of it here is like, Trump-

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Like the renegade-

• 40:34Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what he did was, he, he came from the inside, like a parasite taking over its host. So he didn't go, he, he didn't make the mistake Jill Stein made of saying like, I'm not in the system. He's like, no, no, no, I'm fully in the system. I am a Republican.

• 40:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:48Trevor Noah?

  I am a Republican, Republicans come with me. And then he said the things, and now Republicans didn't have to say, do we choose between a Republican or Donald Trump? They said, no, I like this version of a Republican.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 40:59Trevor Noah?

  And so now, to your point, Christiana, I argue that the Republican Party is out of politics in America. And the Trump, Trump Party is now in, it's a two-party system, it's the Democrats versus the Trumps. And so to your point, there is an opportunity for somebody to come in and do to the Democratic Party what Trump did to the Republican Party, and take it over from the inside. Bernie had a moment of it, but maybe he wasn't like the right candidate and the right everything. But there's definitely a moment and an opportunity for somebody to do that, to come in and say, I am a Democrat, but let me tell you why we should close the border. Or I am a Democrat, but let me tell you why we aren't gonna support Israel. I am a Democrat, but let me tell you, and they, whatever those things are that they string together,

• 41:44Trevor Noah?

  they may be able to take over the host from the inside. And then in the future, we'll look back and go, oh, remember the Republicans and Democrats, quote unquote? But really, America's parties constantly change.

• 41:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 41:57Trevor Noah?

  We just don't realize what dynasty we're in. So we say it's the Democrats and it's the Republicans, but it's not. We are now in the era of the Trumps. And the-

• 42:05Speaker 02

  Whoever it's gonna be.

• 42:06Trevor Noah?

  I guess the vacancy of the Obamas.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  That's prob, that's, that's a huge part of the problem. Listen, I- I just finished saying at the top of the show that I don't like to blame a black woman for everything. I, I, maybe I don't have this problem with black men and I'm gonna work on that with my own soul later. Because I do think that part of what was supposed to happen did not happen. And the void that was left in the Democratic Party. Some of that, yes, by Obama's transition, but also the Democrats cleared the deck in that party to make way for Hillary Clinton to run as the candidate that year. And, and some of the way they cleared the deck was, I think, offensive to some people. So you look around, for example, and I kept asking people, where's Castro?

• 42:51Speaker 02

  Where's like, I was naming all these people from like just six years ago and they're like basically gone within the party. That was an entire bench of people who were supposed to be that infrastructure of this is the new container for Democrats, right? But to your point, Christiana, we have had these moments in time before on both sides. It's just that I think that our time for this generation was supposed to be Obama. And if it didn't happen, I worry a little bit. That tends to be like a once in a generation kind of thing, right? I remember Clinton, for example, Clinton was my first, like, you know, the first American president I was aware of. And Clinton was that type of game changer.

• 43:34Speaker 02

  He remade the, I'm sorry, the first Clinton, I'm sorry. He remade the Democratic Party over in the image of Reagan. He said, you can stay a Democrat, but still like these things that Ronald Reagan liked. And I'm gonna give it to you in these cool, funny, southern stories. That's literally his whole magic. And yes, a once in a lifetime kind of politician and a communicator, but that's what he did. Obama came along and kind of teased at, promised at, a new Obama coalition.

• 44:04Speaker 02

  That wasn't just supposed to be a coalition of the electorate. It was supposed to be a new coalition of the party itself. When that sort of crumbles because they're demoralized because Trump wins and it was a deeply racist response to his presidency, to be fair, and I suspect that was traumatic. But we didn't rebuild after that and I'm not sure that you'd get another chance. Like, that's not an every four years kind of thing is what I'm saying. I think you have to have the infrastructure to build those people up. And when they clear the debt.

• 44:31Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you're talking about building a championship winning team.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  Yes, I am, I think. Sure, that sounds like exactly what.

• 44:39Trevor Noah?

  That's exactly what you're talking about. That's, that's what every sports fan, every sports fan goes through this every few years.

• 44:45Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, because isn't that when Philadelphia says, trust the process?

• 44:47Trevor Noah?

  Exactly.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Oh, I did see.

• 44:50Trevor Noah?

  Exactly.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  Out here.

• 44:51Trevor Noah?

  Every few years, every few years, there's a, there's a moment, you'll be a championship winning team. And it's, there are very few teams in the world that have found, it's almost impossible, but have found a way to not go through a period of now having to reestablish and re-identify themselves. If anything, I would argue the best teams are just the ones who can minimize the amount of time. But there will always be a moment where you, you're reconfiguring, you're rebuilding. It's a new moment, it's a new team. You have to go, okay, we are going to lose for a little bit, but we are losing because we're building towards something.

• 45:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:29Trevor Noah?

  We're trying to minimize our losses while losing about what the future will be. And to your point, I think that's where people do not give Republicans enough credit. Where they lost hard with Obama and then they said, we are now going to go to the school boards, we're now going to go to the local councils, we're going to start grinding from scratch. And for eight years while people are watching Obama, these people with Mitch McConnell are just chipping away, building up this infrastructure that then Trump, infrastructure that they've put in. It's not, you know what I mean? Yes, Trump's the star player, but man, they've got a powerful team. They've got a really, really powerful team.

• 46:06Trevor Noah?

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• 46:49Trevor Noah?

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• 47:32Trevor Noah?

  But you see, that's one of the things I love about YouTube Premium. I travel a lot, so I download videos before a flight. That way, I'm not leaving my entertainment in the hands of airplane Wi-Fi. Yeah, I've made that mistake before. You think you're gonna watch something in 4K and suddenly everyone's face is pixels. But one of my favorite features is Smart Downloads. You see, YouTube Premium can automatically download recommended videos for you based on what you already watch. So sometimes I'll get on a plane, I look at my phone, I'm like, ah, I didn't download anything. Then it's like, no, YouTube already thought about this. They packed entertainment for me in my little lunchbox. And with Background Play, I can lock my phone, switch apps, and whatever I'm watching just keeps on going.

• 48:16Trevor Noah?

  So, if you like YouTube, you will love YouTube Premium. Sign up now for your free trial at youtube.com/premium. Terms apply. Cancel anytime.

• 48:31Speaker 05

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• 48:42Speaker 06

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• 48:46Speaker 06

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• 48:47Speaker 05

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• 49:06Speaker 03

  It's also where messaging side of a Trump presidency. Because now you can lie and you can tell big lies and then you're just not gonna do anything. But I do think that if they do any of what they've been proposing, and it goes as badly as the economists and all the people who don't know how to talk to people say it will go, that's another thing that I think is very hard to come back from. And that's an opportunity for Democrats to pounce. Because it's like, this guy said his economic plan. He said, to Trevor's point, "We're gonna do it beautiful." We don't even know what that means, but we know it's gonna be pretty.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 49:39Speaker 03

  Then, my man has four years to do it beautiful, right? And then you're poorer than you were four years ago. So if he did it beautiful, it's ugly. And maybe he didn't do anything. That's when the Dems step in with real messaging around like, "Do you feel pretty? Because if you don't feel pretty, then like..."

• 49:59Speaker 02

  That's good, buddy. Do you feel pretty? That's good.

• 50:02Speaker 03

  And that's what we're so bad at sometimes. But yeah, Trevor?

• 50:05Trevor Noah?

  Can I throw something at you, though? And again, I'm gonna say this with the biggest caveat up top. Because I know this part is not like sports in that people's lives are affected. So, I will say that up top.

• 50:19Trevor Noah?

  If you look at America's cycle...

• 50:22Trevor Noah?

  Forget like how you feel politically. You cannot deny economically. The cycle has been Democrats have come in fixed the economy. After the eight years of it being fixed, like just as they get to it, it's like, oh, thank you, Obama for getting us out of the recession. People are complacent and then they go like, actually, we want a Republican in. Republicans come in, they take a massive dump on the economy. Democrats come in again, they fix the thing. But I don't think that Democrats have a problem winning per se or taking a moment like those opportunities. And maybe Tracy, this is something you you can speak to.

• 50:59Trevor Noah?

  I want to know why it feels like Democrats are not trying to make their the the policies of the voters permanent when they are in power. Do you know what I mean? Why isn't Obama codifying Roe v. Wade? Why why aren't they like when they have two thirds majorities and when they have the power? Why does it feel like like when Trump said in his in his in his victory speech now? He said, I'm going back to what I said, promises made, promises kept. And I sat there thinking, man, if you're a Trump supporter, you are having a great time. Because that man said, I'm gonna build the wall. And then he pushed with all his power to build it. Now you can argue which piece wasn't built. Yo, there's wall that like is there, you know what I'm saying? When he said, I'm not gonna start wars or the man, you can argue, but he.

• 51:43Trevor Noah?

  Even if it feels that way, it seems like he's really pushing and he's putting in the Supreme Court justices that he said he's gonna put in and he's. And he's pushing for these conservative judges across the border. But it feels like Democrats, when they do win, Josh, and they get all that power, they go, OK, we now have all the power. But now would be a good time to talk to the Republicans and ask them how they feel about us wielding our power. Mitch McConnell.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  But Trevor, just to push back, Biden was very progressive in ways, like the stuff.

• 52:11Trevor Noah?

  Oh, I'm not saying I'm not saying he wasn't.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  I think I I I feel like Biden was actually as ballsy as I hoped Obama would be. Like there's stuff that he did that the Republicans were pushing back on hard, especially around infrastructure, etc. So I feel like Biden prop kind of breaks that.

• 52:28Trevor Noah?

  No, but he but he doesn't, he doesn't because because don't forget Biden didn't lose.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  Hey.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  You got me on that one. Yeah, I almost forgot. I did, I almost forgot.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  Don't do that.

• 52:41Trevor Noah?

  Don't forget that.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  Don't do that.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  You are right. Okay.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  You did not. You're absolutely correct.

• 52:47Speaker 02

  Okay, so this cycle that you talk about, totally, yes, a known thing, right? So Democrats with some variability tend to build up the state or build out state capacity and Republicans shrink it.

• 53:01Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 53:02Speaker 02

  What I think happens with people, though, like why people don't reward the building of the state capacity that actually could possibly improve their lives is, I think, is a couple of things. I think, one, it's back to the story of, that's not a fun, sexy story. You even take Biden, right? Who, I think this was part of his challenge. Inflation was sexier than the fact that he had pushed through the most meaningful climate change legislation that this country has managed to get off of the ground because he called it something boring. He called it infrastructure, right?

• 53:30Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  He hid it in that. And that is the way that you make legislation work, but it is a terrible story. I say as a writer, right? Nobody wants to hear about the infrastructure bill. But it does improve your life. It's just that the dots connecting that big boring thing to your everyday life and how you feel about it, not a great story. The second thing is that people like the government best when the government works for them, but they don't know it's the government working. So the government's got a real branding problem here, right? Like, everybody loves for the trains to run on time, but nobody wants to pay for trains. So, you know, again, it's a hard story to tell because they're expensive, they're slow, they take a long time. And I think that's the third and final thing I would say.

• 54:14Speaker 02

  Some of the big projects that we need done, especially now, these are big projects, right? These are things that we would be voting for today and the people voting for it probably won't see it come to fruition. Like, you're probably voting for something for your kids. And like, we say we do that. Oh, I'm voting for my children's future. No, we're not. People don't vote for their kids' future. People vote.

• 54:36Speaker 03

  I haven't even met my kids yet.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  When kids ain't met their kids, they don't know where them kids at. They don't care. Like, when it comes down to brass tacks, I'm not coming after the parents. I'm just saying, loving your kids.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  Oh, no, come for us, Tracy.

• 54:51Speaker 02

  Loving your kids, in theory, and loving them when it comes time to vote, when you are motivated by all of your own stuff, right? It's not that the dad went in and voted against his daughter not having healthcare. Like, yeah, we get that, you know, conceptually, maybe. But he's like, oh, no, my kid won't have that problem as long as I can make enough money. She doesn't have these issues. So, really, I'm voting my economic interests and I'm gonna buy her out of this whole abortion, reproductive health nonsense, right? Like, there's always a way, I think, for people to motivate a story about loving their kids that happens to conveniently fit their ideological priors. And so, when you start coming at people on that emotional level, and that's the kind of stuff that Democrats tend to fall back on,

• 55:32Speaker 02

  because, again, it's hard to write and sell a sexy story about building bridges.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  And also, Tracy, to, you know, piggyback off you, I think that we can be frank and say that people are a bit sexy.

• 55:50Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 55:51Speaker 01

  People are a bit racist. People really don't care that much about whether their neighbor can get an abortion.

• 55:56Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no.

• 55:57Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? They're like, oh, you're angry because I won't let you kill your baby.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  No.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is true. You fucking made up, right? And so, it's just like, I think Trump and Trumpism appeals to a way of life that Democrats think is way beneath them and has no place in their party, but a way of life that is very human nuanced. And like, this was a culture war as much as, like, because, you know, the Wall Street Journal did a piece about how, like, whoever becomes president is gonna inherit one of the strongest economies America has ever had, right? That is just a fact, inflation aside. But people really care about culture and how they live day to day. And they look at the Democrats, whichever way you put it, whether it's from race, or gender, or sexuality, or...

• 56:45Speaker 01

  Schooling and they're like, I don't like that. So the Democrats need to figure out a way of making who they are seem palatable. And I think Obama was really a master of that. He was like, I am all these things and I'm still one of you and you're part of me. But the Democrats have moved away from that, right? And they need to figure out a way to get back to that. And talk about these issues in a way that are really palatable. Because I think even issues that seem really thorny, like trans rights. When you speak to someone and you break it down, they're like, huh, okay, I don't want to be mean to that person. Right? Like, if you really break down what the experience is, imagine being born in the wrong body. People are like, that's messed up. Like, when you put it in that language.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  But when you turn around to someone and the first thing you say, you're transphobic, bigger, da, da, da, da. You kind of lose them. And so I think the Democrats really need to figure out, how do we make how we speak about these life issues that people are grappling with, palatable in a way that they know that being with us is being on the right side of history.

• 57:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. And politicians, especially people who didn't start in politics, this is why Trump does well. A lot of these people who like are calculated enough to know they want to be president by the third grade are also not good at talking to people in the third grade. So they've had, they've had a lifetime of not knowing how to talk to people. And these are the most successful people who don't know how to talk to people.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  I really do a kid like that, yeah.

• 58:10Speaker 03

  And it's like, it's like they always wanted to be class president. Like, they don't know how to talk to people. And one of the things which like, Tressie, I think you and I can speak to this specifically, which I'll be interested in whether or not you agree with me, but like, there's human nature and then there's American nature. And there's something to be said for an American nature. There is this like, I think it was like Stokely Carmichael that said, like, one of the biggest grifts America ever had was convincing you, you could be as rich as a Rockefeller next year. And it's like, a lot of these other countries, talk about Scandinavian countries who grab countries that are doing well and this, that and the other. One of the things they don't have, they may have criminals, they may have scams, but they don't have ball out culture in that way. And a lot of Americans don't.

• 58:55Speaker 03

  I don't understand the difference between struggling economically and not being rich.

• 59:00Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 59:00Speaker 03

  Because I think that there are so many people who are struggling and we don't really care about those people.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 59:06Speaker 03

  By and large, either party, day to day.

• 59:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:09Speaker 03

  But what we care about is making people who already have a little bit of money feel like they can have a lot of money. Because that's the, that's like the wave.

• 59:16Speaker 02

  Josh.

• 59:17Speaker 03

  You, you do end up with a huge problem in communication and they, and, and that's kind of what I mean where I'm like, eventually, America and Dems especially, will have to figure out how to break the mold of like, this mythology that a lot of, I mean, if I'm being like, completely blunt, a lot of, um, upper class, white Americans have, which is, all things being left alone, I will be incredibly successful in this country. And then there are people who understand the reality of competition, especially black women, right? And I think that you end up in a place where if you cannot convince people that you can help them by doing something for them, you'll keep convincing them you can help them by doing something to someone else.

• 1:00:01Speaker 03

  And eventually that won't work, but it won't work if you get the messaging right after it fails.

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:07Speaker 03

  And that's, that's like the crucial point, like, it, it, people are actually not better off and they, if all you can say, Kamala did it during one of the debates. She was like, she was so confident and she was so right, that she was like, you know what I'm gonna tell you to do? Go to one of his rallies and I bet you leave early. And that's why it hurt him.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:00:25Speaker 03

  Because it was true.

• 1:00:26Speaker 02

  Yes, and it was in his language and in his people's register. That's exactly right.

• 1:00:30Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:31Speaker 03

  And I think that if you as Dems, get the old guard out and get the new guard in of people who are desperate, who think they're gonna die and know how to talk to people. Now you can get the people who just say, they're running for a senate race, they're running for a gubernatorial race, and they're like, I want you to go home tonight, I want you to open your Chase account, and I want you to look at it now and take a snapshot, and then look at it in two years after I've been in office. But like, that's, and I think that's how you beat people, you know?

• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  I will be your first bundler, Josh.

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  I will, I, I know like 20. Twenty people right now with a hundred dollars laying around. I will bundle those hundred dollars for you.

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  Because that is the big political economy question. That's all Josh has described, and I could not agree with him more. You gotta solve a long, deep, hard problem for people. And until you actually solve those fundamentals, which neither party is really trying to do, somebody like Trump will be able to come along and sell a story about it instead. And yes, people will eventually become disappointed, but they'll just buy another story. Yeah.

• 1:01:38Trevor Noah?

  Is it not just inevitable? Or, like, is America not just gonna be in this cycle forever? And, and like, you know, and I don't want, I don't want it to seem like I'm being dismissive. Nor am I, nor am I being like a little Buddhist about it, but it's like.

• 1:01:53Speaker 02

  It is very Buddhist. I was thinking that the whole time. So Buddhist, yeah.

• 1:01:57Speaker 03

  I do think that there's a, there's, if you, if you take it to an individual level, there's a cyclical nature to approaching politics, because everyone who is not in politics can be in it all the time, which is why I think people care once every four years. And I think that's why they think that's the only election that they have to vote in. And like, you know what I mean? I, I, I try to vote all the time, and sometimes I go to vote, and I might be the only one who win. Like, there, there are some times where I'm like, I see poll workers and nobody else in here, right? And I think that, to what Tressie was saying earlier, it's like, there is a urgency than complacency in rotation. And so I think that when it comes to politics, there is a little bit of like,

• 1:02:42Speaker 03

  a need to find out over and over again, or y'all must have forgot over and over again.

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  So, in terms of the inevitability of it all, I think America is the one place where nothing isn't inevitable. The reason I moved to America, like, you know, most immigrants or expats, whatever you wanna call me, is because of opportunity. And living here, I've realized about this country, it really is a casino, right? That is all it is, and sometimes you throw the dice and you win big, and sometime you lose everything you have. And what, what makes America so intoxicating and remarkable is the fact that it is a casino, right? And like. You go to most of Western Europe, society is set, caste is set, you can't get out of your class. America is the only place where you could get an Obama and you could get a Trump.

• 1:03:32Speaker 01

  You could have slavery to Reconstruction to Jim Crow to present day. And see the change in black people, right? The advancements and the remaining of suffering is so contradictory in that way. And one thing I've learnt living here, if there is any country that has the capacity for revolutionary and radical change in incredibly brief period of time, where we take like England like seventy-five, a hundred years, America can do it in seven. And we've seen that with Trump, right? He's a big example of that, like you don't know what's coming next. And just like we had an Obama, we may get an Obama that makes good on the promise. And now that Trump's in power, I think there is a vacuum for that.

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  And there is a way that we could just lean into the darkness and be like, okay, the dark, this is gonna win. And I'm not like, you know, I'm not optimistic about shit. I like, I think humans are terrible. So this is not coming, but this is just like the American experiment is a heartbreaking, but also a very remarkable one. So there is a scenario where something comes out of this that is completely unexpected. Apart from like me being deported, which is probably gonna happen by the time he gets in power.

• 1:04:44Trevor Noah?

  I actually, I actually love that. I, I love that as an idea, uh, you know? I think that's, that's a beautiful place to end it, actually, is like. It, it is the casino and I think that's what makes it spectacular is that exactly what you're saying. We've seen so many moments where the dice has landed perfectly. And man, you can't deny being, being around for those moments in America is a pretty special feeling. And then we've also seen moments where. Like now ironically, it depends on who whose view you're taking. Are you are you because if you're right now, if you're not a Trump supporter, you're seeing it from the perspective of like you rolled the dice and you lost everything.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  But somebody in this country won.

• 1:05:24Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:05:24Trevor Noah?

  Yes, somebody has won, somebody has won. Every time someone loses in a casino.

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  This is the best time to be an American that they have ever experienced.

• 1:05:33Trevor Noah?

  Exactly.

• 1:05:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:34Trevor Noah?

  It is exactly that. That is the most perfect analogy I've ever heard, Christiana, because if you've spent, I've spent a lot of time in casinos, comedy and casinos go hand in hand, unfortunately. Let me tell you something now, it is the most depressing.

• 1:05:47Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:05:48Trevor Noah?

  And inspiring place you have ever been in your life. Because you'll see one person in a corner mortgaging their house or bringing a pink slip for their car because they've lost it all. And on the other side, you will see somebody who's just made thirty new friends because they're on a hot streak of rolling the dice and it's all going well. And that, yeah. So i- i- in in many ways, right now, I guess you're right. People just have to keep rolling the dice. And it also means America, America could lose, America could lose everything.

• 1:06:17Speaker 02

  I was about to say that, yes, it is a casino, but I think the house always wins. Isn't that what we say about the casino?

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, Tracy, I agree with that too.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  Y'all. I guess what I'm saying is I want to be the house.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  If there's a country where you can be a house, America.

• 1:06:31Trevor Noah?

  I'll, I'll, I'll throw this at you, actually. You know when you say the house always wins? I think of this. While, literally, when we started recording this, I looked at the the stock market and it has rallied to its like greatest, a trillion dollars, you know, like there was a trillion dollars has been added to the stock market. That is the house. And I think that's something, you know, Josh, you touched on it in a beautiful way. Tracy, you talk about all the time, Christiana, we, if you think about it, no matter who wins or loses the elections in America.

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:02Trevor Noah?

  Wall Street always wins.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  Yep, yep.

• 1:07:04Trevor Noah?

  That's the house, baby.

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  Now you're talking my language.

• 1:07:08Trevor Noah?

  You will lose, you will lose your house. You will not be able to go to school. You will lose your factory job. Jobs will go to Mexico. Your kid won't be able to go to school. You'll feel like the schools are racist. You'll feel like trans people are taking over. You'll feel like sports is not what it used to be. You'll feel like people can't say what they want to. People can't use certain words. You'll feel like it's good, it's bad, it's this, it's. But can I tell you who has never stopped winning?

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:34Trevor Noah?

  If you go look at the graph.

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:07:36Trevor Noah?

  It's Wall Street.

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  The S and P, baby, the S and P.

• 1:07:39Trevor Noah?

  That, the S and P. Yeah, the house always wins. Well, once again, Tressie, thank you very much. I, uh, I started this conversation feeling great, but I, I feel even greater right now. You know? Aww. You, you step in every, every time and yeah, you make all things great again. You're mega, Tressie, that's who you are.

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  Oh my.

• 1:07:58Trevor Noah?

  You are my mega.

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  I felt where that was going in an instant and you still got me. And I was gonna tell you how happy I was to see your face first. That's what I was gonna say to you. I was like, look at that face. I'm so happy to see that face.

• 1:08:12Trevor Noah?

  I'll still take it.

• 1:08:13Speaker 02

  Josh, it was so good to see your cute little face. Josh, you were so good.

• 1:08:17Trevor Noah?

  Thanks so much.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  You will be in competition for my affection.

• 1:08:21Speaker 01

  Always a pleasure. I'll get some rest, you have not slept.

• 1:08:30Trevor Noah?

  What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Zinaaz Yamin and Jodie Avigan. Our senior producer is Jess Hackel. Claire Slaughter is our producer. Music, mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now.

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