Why is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing Now?

We are unpacking the Vogue article heard 'round the world that posed the question "Is having a boyfriend embarrassing now?" We discuss what prompted a question like this and why the conversation blew up, the cultural shift in relationship dynamics, our thoughts on whether boyfriends are in fact embarrassing, the response to the article (both good and bad, and from both men and women), and more. We also rank the worst fictional boyfriends of all time, from Friends to Sex and the City to Disney. And before we get into the topic, Rayna updates us on her comedy journey and Ashley discusses her prenup. Enjoy! Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for more. Thank you to our partners this week: Lola Blankets: Get 40% off your entire order at lolablankets.com with code GGE. Rocket Money: Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster at https://rocketmoney.com/gge. Bilt: Get points by paying rent at https://joinbilt.com/gge. Saks Fifth Avenue: Make shopping easier this season at https://Saks.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rayna Greenberg?

  So today we're talking about if having a boyfriend is embarrassing. And neither of us have them. So we are not embarrassing.

• 0:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  This podcast is a Dear Media production.

• 0:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat.

• 0:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Welcome back.

• 0:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Happy Thanksgiving week.

• 0:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's happening.

• 0:33Rayna Greenberg?

  It's our favorite.

• 0:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  First. You haven't brought it up.

• 0:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Didn't I bring, I brought it up last week.

• 0:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  You did not.

• 0:39Rayna Greenberg?

  What?

• 0:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  We had a lot to talk about last week.

• 0:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 0:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  We did a documentary last week.

• 0:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, at the end of next week's episode, I bring it up.

• 0:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, yes. Don't get ahead of yourself. And probably the beginning of next week's episode, you'll bring it up. And every episode after.

• 0:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 0:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  It is, it's Thanksgiving week.

• 0:55Rayna Greenberg?

  It's just my favorite holiday.

• 0:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Food, I'm so excited. We have fun holiday plans. I'm just, I'm very excited.

• 1:01Rayna Greenberg?

  What are you doing? I'm going to London.

• 1:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:03Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm going to London to see the baby. I'm so excited. It was just his first birthday, so I haven't bought him anything, but I probably will. I might go to Paris for the night. I'm not getting good weather this year. Last year I had amazing weather, but I'm just really excited. It's a long ass trip, but I'm excited.

• 1:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  A few people are in Paris right now.

• 1:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Who's in Paris?

• 1:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Jeremy.

• 1:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Jeremy.

• 1:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I think someone else. I just, I am dying to go to Paris for Christmas. Like, you want to come now? I also have a child's birthday. As we record, I will be in Delaware, but I'm leaving like the Saturday before Thanksgiving. Pushed my flight up a day because Matt decided to do the both boys' birthdays. They're close in their birthdays and they obviously could celebrate on the actual day, but the joint, they do joint birthdays now.

• 1:47Rayna Greenberg?

  I can't wait.

• 1:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Because everybody wants to come and bring gifts or whatever.

• 1:50Rayna Greenberg?

  It's how they can remember stuff.

• 1:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, Jay is locked in.

• 1:54Rayna Greenberg?

  He is, he's so smart, crazy.

• 1:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  So the birthday will be the Sunday before Thanksgiving, like a joint party for both of them. So I had to make it for that. And then I'll be with my family through the week, through Thanksgiving Day. And then Friday, I'm going to go to Boston and be with Shashank.

• 2:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  I feel so free.

• 2:16Rayna Greenberg?

  It has been so, it's been a real mouthful last year, your fiance.

• 2:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's been mental gymnastics.

• 2:23Rayna Greenberg?

  It's been a lot and you pause every time you do it. It's really nice.

• 2:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Poor Anna. She's like, what are we doing this week?

• 2:28Rayna Greenberg?

  You're gonna be with your in-laws.

• 2:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. So, and they're gonna hold Thanksgiving a day for me, which is what we did for him last year. And so Friday, and then we'll be there through the weekend. And I haven't been to Boston with the exception of the last show on my tour, and I really miss it. We're gonna stay in Seaport and I just miss being in Boston. I loved it so much. I spent so much time there.

• 2:46Rayna Greenberg?

  I know. I love it too. And I would just winter, just winter in general, I miss.

• 2:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, exactly. Being on the East Coast for winter. So, see you guys around these parts.

• 2:53Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm gonna be those parts too. I'm gonna Pittsburgh.

• 2:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, Rain had to one-up me after London and Paris. She's like, by the way.

• 3:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, you got, you got Boston, I got Pittsburgh.

• 3:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, I just, my dad is not coming to London this year for Thanksgiving and I just, my parents are getting older and I wanna like take time to be with them. And listen, I would rather spend more time in Paris, but I am gonna fly back. We're gonna go to a Steelers game. They're playing the Buffalo Bills. So, I'm just like very excited. And then we'll meet back here to keep recording the podcast.

• 3:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. I am, I'm really thankful, you know, and I did just wanna say, we recorded this episode last week.

• 3:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Recorded our documentary last week.

• 3:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Documentary. We dropped it last week. It was the most work, it's the longest episode we've had in, in years. I think one time Matthew Hussey episode was a couple hours.

• 3:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Andrew Huberman, we couldn't get that guy to shut up. That guy was like, I'm not even gonna let you interrupt me.

• 3:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Andrew Huberman was like, is this not Joe Rogan's three hour block? And Anna, our editor, put so much time into it. There's these assets and videos. We did a couple pickups. I just was so perfectionist and so neurotic about it. It was something so important to me and I wanted to get everything in. And of course, I didn't get this in and that in. But I just wanted to also thank our audience for all the support and the love and nothing but incredible comments, at least that I'll ever see, front-facing. I'm not in the back end of the internet looking at what people are saying. I would never. Those don't reach me, just so you know. And

• 4:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Keep trying.

• 4:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Along the way, I think that was the one thing I left out, is I always wanna thank our audience just for their love and support. And we talked about this and we'll talk about a new venture, venture.

• 4:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, we'll talk about it.

• 4:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  A thing you got going on. And you were just, we were talking about how it will be received. And I'm like, people love us. Like, some don't.

• 4:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  And you know, the people like, what do they say, your biggest fans or your biggest haters, whatever, those, that's what I were talking about. People want the best for us. They want to see us happy and thriving and in love or succeeding at something. And so again, just thank you guys always for the support. We're really thankful and we thank you every year around this time. And just I want to drive it home.

• 4:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, thank you for you guys and thank you to you. And this has been, we'll talk about it more at the Christmas episode. We do like big year roundup and we do resolutions for next year. But yeah, this has been like a really great year, mostly for you.

• 5:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  I've had a great year too. It's been a shit show of a year in like the state of the world. But yeah, it's been a lot. And 2026 is gonna be a rainy year. But listen, we're not gonna get ahead of ourselves.

• 5:16Rayna Greenberg?

  We gotta stop cooking for 2026.

• 5:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Let her cook.

• 5:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Doing big things.

• 5:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're gonna come.

• 5:23Rayna Greenberg?

  All right, we're gonna thank our partners. We're gonna get into it. Thank you to Lola Blankets. Get 40% off your entire order at LolaBlankets.com with code GGE and Rocket Money. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster at RocketMoney.com/GGE.

• 5:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  And thank you to Bilt. Get points by paying rent at joinbilt.com/GGE. And thank you to Saks Fifth Avenue. Make shopping easier this season at Saks Fifth Avenue or at Saks.com. Okay. Okay, a few announcements.

• 5:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, so our biggest sale of the year for Vibes Only, our sexual wellness business, is this year. Is this week.

• 5:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Believe it.

• 5:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Our big sale of the year. It's this year, guys.

• 6:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's this year, you guys.

• 6:02Rayna Greenberg?

  You can't even believe it. We want you guys to go fuck yourselves. And

• 6:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, go fuck yourselves.

• 6:06Rayna Greenberg?

  We have an amazing line of vibrators, couples toys, things that you can use solo. We have handcuffs, we have lube, we have so many fun things on the site. So our biggest sale of the year is this year. And email subscribers get early access. So if you go to VibesOnly.com, all you have to do, sign up for the email list, there'll be a pop-up and that'll get you two days early access to our biggest sale of the year. And then we'll continue to do sale throughout the weekend. So VibesOnly.com, get your stocking stuffers, stuff yourself, get stuff for your friends, white elephant, all the things.

• 6:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  The pillow. Get that pillow. And you know what I was looking last night at some of our products? And I like our holiday theme. I like the green pillow, which was also my wedding color, a green velvet with the burgundy scarlet. That's my pairing, if you guys want to know.

• 6:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Do we? No, we don't sell that as a bundle, but I like it. I like-

• 6:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, maybe we should.

• 6:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 6:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  A little red and green?

• 6:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. So suction toy is the, is the scarlet, our new mini suction toy and the sex pillow. You just elevate your sex life.

• 7:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Peppermint Patty blow gel is back.

• 7:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 7:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's my personal favorite.

• 7:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes. Our best seller is the peppermint patty and the sugar free blow gel. So you can up your BJ game.

• 7:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think I might try to have that be more my sweet treat because I'm trying to cut back a little bit on desserts.

• 7:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 7:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  And so that'll just suck dick instead.

• 7:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, that's so nice.

• 7:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 7:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Now that you're married, you can blow jobs. You don't have to do that anymore.

• 7:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's where I start my blowjob era in marriage.

• 7:30Rayna Greenberg?

  You gotta do something.

• 7:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  We had sex on the couch last, this weekend.

• 7:33Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, my God.

• 7:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  It was pretty hot.

• 7:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Which part of it? So I don't sit there?

• 7:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know, I know.

• 7:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Don't tell her.

• 7:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Poor as old.

• 7:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  We had some margaritas. We were out with some friends and we came home and just got it.

• 7:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Couch sex.

• 7:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Fucked on the couch in a long time.

• 7:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, couch sex is great. Now you guys are married. You can fuck everywhere. People, our audience did say that getting married made them hornier.

• 7:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  A hundred percent. We talked about on the podcast and then I would even ask at my shows, I would talk to married couples in the audience and they really reiterated, they weren't just doing it for the bit. They were like, yeah, it's hot to be locked down by the government.

• 8:05Rayna Greenberg?

  It's hot to be married.

• 8:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 8:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you want to talk?

• 8:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 8:09Rayna Greenberg?

  What's been going on with you? So, you know, a lot of people messaged me and I was posting a lot when I was in New York last week about doing shows at this comedy club in New York, which is like your longtime club, The Stand. And I was doing shows, I collabed a post with them and a lot of our audience came and they were so supportive and wonderful. So thank you guys if you came. But on the post that I collabed, I got a lot of people being like, wait, do you do stand up yet? And what is this? And is this a big announcement? You guys were just like so wonderful. So-

• 8:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  It was a little bit of a jump scare.

• 8:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, without explaining it.

• 8:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  You want to have a plot teased anything? All of a sudden, here she is, everybody.

• 8:42Rayna Greenberg?

  Every night of the week.

• 8:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  Every night of the week.

• 8:45Rayna Greenberg?

  So I did that because the club asked me to promote it. And obviously, I would never do anything in my life, ever, without explaining it to you guys. But the club was like, please promote this, put ticket sales up. So I was like, great. So, I mean, obviously, you've been on tour all year, and I haven't. And I am so inspired by what you've done. And, you know, I miss our audience, and I miss seeing them at shows. And well, I just started writing my musings about dating in general. And, you know, I just, I got my heart pretty shattered at the end of last year, and I was really depressed. And it was probably one of the lowest times in my life. And I spent the year just dating and going on matchmaker dates and trying to date other friends of ours and

• 9:23Rayna Greenberg?

  calling up exes from the past and all kinds of stuff. And I just, I started writing about it, and I really enjoyed it. I tried to date this girl. I just

• 9:31Rayna Greenberg?

  I tried, I just started writing about it, and I was like, I think I have some really solid comedy hour content. Yeah. And I was just like, you know, I want to see how this feels. I want to see how it feels to get on a stage by myself without all the stuff. You know, I've, I've been a performer for so many years. I performed with you for seven years, hundreds of shows for thousands of people, probably a million people. And I always thought, like, without all of that, without the dancers and the strippers and the cryo and the t-shirt guns and you and all of that, like, what does it feel like? Just me and a mic. And it just, it felt really good, and it felt comfortable. And I have so many people around me that I can look up to that are amazing performers and so many good friends and people that have been supportive and given me great advice, like you, of course. And I've loved watching you just get better and better and better every year and succeed.

• 10:16Rayna Greenberg?

  And it just felt really nice. It felt good, and I'm excited to do something with the hour,

• 10:24Rayna Greenberg?

  which I'll be announcing soon. So I'm very excited for 2026 and what I'm going to be doing. And it was just, it was nice even to perform for not just our audience. Probably like 20% of the audience was our audience and just make people laugh and talk about things, just about current dating culture and really bad behavior these days and make light of it. And I had like a pretty disappointing situation with a friend that I slept with. And to write about it and get on stage and perform and just make fun of it felt so good. And so it's just, it's exciting and I loved it. And thank you, guys, if you came. I'm gonna do more of it in December and then I'll make an announcement about some stuff. You look like you want to say something.

• 11:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, I just, I am really proud of you. You have always been on stage and telling stories and making people laugh and writing out sets and jokes and doing comedy in that way and, you know, workshopping stuff and punching it up and taking it seriously and you went out with me on my tour and did a couple of dates and you never appeared to be like nervous. You know, I'm sure that you were, but you never really let on. It was just like, this is what I do. I've been doing this. And you're such a natural and crowd work. Like you said something to me the other day that you are crowd working. So funny. Like I was like, oh, you've never asked that at our shows. And it was like so funny, like the way you engage an audience and you're really great at it. And I think anyone who's ever been to a show knows that.

• 11:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  So it seems natural and, you know, we've talked, we talk a lot about what a stand-up comedian or just a solo performer's journey looks like. And, you know, your path has been different and you're gonna do this thing and you have people who love you and want to come see you. And I think you're trying to strike the balance of like, how much is like, you gotta know the girl's gotta eat lore. Or can you perform for people coming off the street? And I think that funny is funny. And you're funny and relatable and I'm excited to see more of it. I've only seen a little bit and for everyone else to see it too.

• 12:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, thanks for saying that. It means a lot. And I think people are like, I didn't know you were doing stand-up. It's like, well, I'm not, I don't, I've never considered myself a stand-up like you. It's not the same thing. I haven't, like you gone out and grinded it out five nights a week, you know, and doing all these sets and, but I am a performer and I've written so much and nothing makes me feel less scared than being in front of our audience. Like, I know the hard part is now. I know the hard part is like practicing this and being in front of audiences that I don't know. And like, I feel emotional thinking like the easiest thing in the world is standing up in front of our audience. Cause they're just, they're so loving and wonderful and they just want to hype you and show up and post about you. And I like walked out of one of the shows the other night and this girl was like waiting for me. She was like, right now. I love the, I love the set. Can I just punch one joke up for you?

• 13:05Rayna Greenberg?

  And she gave me a really funny tag.

• 13:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, I love that.

• 13:08Rayna Greenberg?

  She waited for me outside to like punch it up. It was very funny. And I was just like, that's, that will be the easiest thing in the world is our audience.

• 13:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  I try to think if that's ever happened to me. I always love when you people, you get off stage and someone's like, can I give you a tag? And it's like, I'm like, yeah, you can. And sometimes I'm like, brilliant, it's in. And other times I'm like, I'm offended. I'm offended you thought I would say those words.

• 13:34Rayna Greenberg?

  The security guard, there's like a hot security guard. He was like big and bald and he was like looking at her and I thanked her and he like watched the interaction. He was like, you're just like, cool with that? And I was like, yeah, I'm very cool with it. That was very funny.

• 13:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  I watched comedy and I'm like screaming like, why would you not say this thing that feels so obvious? Like, there's a thing in my set and it'll be in the special that I can't believe I missed. And we were in Denver and Andrew Cullen was like, how do you not say this thing? I would have put money on that line coming next. And I was like, you're right. It's going in in 10, next 10 minutes. Show two.

• 14:08Rayna Greenberg?

  I, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to know from everybody, but like, I do think that some people. Don't, don't DM us, but I, it is really like flattering when you get off stage and somebody who like knows comedy is like, that was great, but this can be better. And you're like, that's mine now.

• 14:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, but depends. It does depend.

• 14:24Rayna Greenberg?

  If it's you or Andrew Cullen or that girl.

• 14:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, exactly. Very few men I want it from.

• 14:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, just Andrew.

• 14:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, you guys watch this space.

• 14:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Stay tuned. I'm very excited. Thank you guys for your support and we'll keep you abreast of this developing situation.

• 14:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  And, you know, if anything happens and Rina kicks off anything, I'll be there.

• 14:46Rayna Greenberg?

  I'll just kick it off.

• 14:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not, not every time.

• 14:51Rayna Greenberg?

  She's got other people to do that.

• 14:54Rayna Greenberg?

  It's gonna be so good. He's gonna be there also for, you know, if we kick it off.

• 14:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's not Andrew Cullen.

• 14:59Rayna Greenberg?

  No, it's just, it's somebody that you can sleep with.

• 15:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Can?

• 15:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 15:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Rina.

• 15:05Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm not gonna, I can't.

• 15:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. They can.

• 15:08Rayna Greenberg?

  They can.

• 15:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  You guys can.

• 15:09Rayna Greenberg?

  You, not the plural. Not me. Not you, like in general, me. Other people.

• 15:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. Anyways.

• 15:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Watch his face.

• 15:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Watch his face.

• 15:18Rayna Greenberg?

  All right. Well, just a little reminder, we will not have the snack this week, but we hope you guys have just the best Thanksgiving. Please, dear God, tag me in all of your beige plates. I don't think Ashley cares as much as I do, but you can tag her a little.

• 15:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, Raina likes a plate of beige carbs. If you're new around here, it's one of her catchphrases since 2018.

• 15:34Rayna Greenberg?

  It's my kink.

• 15:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  And it's her kink. I like a colorful plate and I like fresh cranberries. So if you are more Raina's friends and you like the canned cranberry with the ridge on it, ribbed for Raina's pleasure, or the fresh cranberries, and every once in a while, we'll get a plate with both.

• 15:52Rayna Greenberg?

  I like some color. I like a little cranberry to color it up. If there's a green bean on there, if there's a fresh green bean, a vibrant green, green bean, get out of here.

• 15:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, guess what I get to have?

• 16:01Rayna Greenberg?

  What are you having?

• 16:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Indian Thanksgiving.

• 16:03Rayna Greenberg?

  What do they do?

• 16:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  They do a mix. Last year, he sent a plate, I think.

• 16:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 16:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I will get two. I'll get mine and then I'll get Indian. They do some traditional stuff, but it's a, it's a nice mix. It's a hot plate.

• 16:14Rayna Greenberg?

  You are lucky.

• 16:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I feel so lucky.

• 16:15Rayna Greenberg?

  I love Indian food so much. It's just like, really? I mean, it, some of it is just hot and mushy.

• 16:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 16:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Not all of it. I'm not trying to insult Indian cuisine. It's incredibly complex. I'm not comparing it to green bean casserole, but it's.

• 16:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally.

• 16:28Rayna Greenberg?

  It's just, it's a lot of hot stews.

• 16:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hot and gushy. Okay.

• 16:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think that's a lyric from WAP. I think about WAP a lot.

• 16:36Rayna Greenberg?

  You do?

• 16:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think about that that's a song.

• 16:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean.

• 16:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, how did this happen?

• 16:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Seriously, like, we, we don't talk about it enough, that there was a song called Wet Ass Pussy. And we just, like, went with that. And we're like, this is, this is it. This is an anthem.

• 16:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, the president is giving blowjobs to other presidents these days. It's crazy times.

• 16:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, I'm just saying, like, what an iconic song. Like, we haven't had one, I guess, My Neck, My Back, and then there was just such a, so many years without another anthem.

• 17:05Rayna Greenberg?

  The thong song?

• 17:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, not.

• 17:06Rayna Greenberg?

  That doesn't compare.

• 17:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Is, is safe for children.

• 17:10Rayna Greenberg?

  The thong song came out of your wedding.

• 17:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, no song has ever hit harder.

• 17:13Rayna Greenberg?

  People hit the ground. People were going crazy.

• 17:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  So Caleb, my best guy friend from high school, I mentioned he lives in Prague and he came. We loved Cisco in high school, his solo album, obviously, when he was in Drew Hill, but then we loved his solo album. And so I was like, I'm not going to pick a deep cut from the album because that won't get the crowd going. So I just went over to Mike and I was like, can you play thong song?

• 17:31Rayna Greenberg?

  You were impressed in the moment?

• 17:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, yeah. And Mike was so quick with it and he had the thong song on in seconds. And the crowd went wild. I think people were coming up to me like, I've never seen the thong song hit like that. So anyway.

• 17:43Rayna Greenberg?

  People went crazy.

• 17:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Seriously.

• 17:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, so I am going to tell you guys about Bilt. By now, you have probably heard of it. You can earn points on your monthly rent payment. But did you know they also make it possible for you to get more outside of your home too? By paying rent through Bilt, you earn flexible points that can be redeemed towards hundreds of hotels and airlines, a future rent payment, or your next Lyft ride and more. But it doesn't stop there. Built is about making your entire neighborhood more rewarding. You can dine out at your favorite local restaurants and earn additional points, get VIP treatment at certain fitness studios and enjoy exclusive experiences just for Bilt members every month. Built is turning a monthly expense into an opportunity to earn rewards and discover the best that your neighborhood has to offer. Your rent is finally working for you and we love this so much.

• 18:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  And we've been talking about Bilt for years and I feel like we've really seen it blow up, become more of a household name. Our episode with Brian Kelly, The Points Guy, he talked about it and just how cool it is and what they're doing and how you really can use those Bilt rewards for, again, things like all around your neighborhood. I'm always seeing the little Bilt sign at my fitness studios and everything. So we just think it's incredible. You guys can earn points on rent and around your neighborhood, wherever you call home, by going to joinbilt.com/gge. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com/gge. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you.

• 19:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, it is gifting season. It's cold season. It's stay at home, don't have social plans, be cozy season. I'm going to put you on to the best product, that's Lola blankets. So Lola is the world's number one blanket. It's crafted with ultra soft, luxury vegan faux fur and a signature four-way stretch that sets it apart. I love these blankets so much. Ashley and I, just they, they look so beautiful draped on your bed or on your couch. They're so cozy and warm.

• 19:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh my God.

• 19:30Rayna Greenberg?

  I literally was at the house for three days in a row this weekend. All I did was just sit under the blanket. It's so comfy and it is machine washable. It's really durable.

• 19:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's huge.

• 19:38Rayna Greenberg?

  I know.

• 19:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm trying to take my blanket to the dry cleaner.

• 19:41Rayna Greenberg?

  I did be getting some stuff on it this weekend, so.

• 19:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Food. What did you do this weekend? I don't even know.

• 19:50Rayna Greenberg?

  I'll tell you.

• 19:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  When are we gonna talk about it? After this?

• 19:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Sure.

• 19:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 19:55Rayna Greenberg?

  I didn't want to tell you about this weekend.

• 19:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Well, finish the blanket, Pat, and let's talk about it.

• 20:01Rayna Greenberg?

  So it's machine washable. It's really durable. It is so soft. It's like being enveloped in luxury. They have a bunch of different colors and sizes. And this is really good for gifting. So it really is like a go to gift. I feel like if you really don't know what to get somebody, this is it. It's just luxurious. It feels nice. Lola has over 10,000 five star reviews. There is a reason why it's called the world's number one blanket. There's a large and XL. I have the XL. They also make weighted blankets and matching pillows. So give the gift of softness this holiday season with Lola Blankets. For a limited time, our listeners are getting a huge 40% off their entire order at lolablankets.com by using the code GGE at checkout. Just head to lolablankets.com and use the code GGE for 40% off. And after your purchase, they will ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you.

• 20:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's such a good gift. A blanket is always a great gift.

• 20:46Rayna Greenberg?

  I got your brother and sister in law blankets a couple of years ago for Christmas. It's just, everybody wants it.

• 20:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know. Okay, what did you do this weekend?

• 20:53Rayna Greenberg?

  I had the best three days of my life.

• 20:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  What?

• 20:55Rayna Greenberg?

  I never left the house. It was the best three days of my entire life. I got a haircut.

• 20:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  I thought you wanted to get out.

• 21:00Rayna Greenberg?

  No.

• 21:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Why, you keep going to New York?

• 21:01Rayna Greenberg?

  I've been out.

• 21:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  You go to New York every weekend.

• 21:02Rayna Greenberg?

  I, this was one of the best weekends of my life. And it was like stark opposite of your wedding, which was also one of the best weekends in my life.

• 21:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I just need to relax.

• 21:09Rayna Greenberg?

  I did your wedding, which was, I mean, just so much socializing, so much like running around and activities. And I went straight to New York.

• 21:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:17Rayna Greenberg?

  I was out every night. I did, I did sets at the stand every night. And I got back here and we, I landed, we recorded three days in a row.

• 21:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, so this is like your first weekend to totally relax and do nothing.

• 21:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, so it was a monsoon in LA. You couldn't leave the house. It was crazy. I did not leave the house except for to get my haircut. I, and I don't think I've ever stayed in bed like this. I wasn't drinking. I wasn't hungover. I wasn't sick. I was just like super clear. I got work done. I watched every show on television. I cooked. I literally, I stayed in the bed the whole day on Friday, never got out of bed.

• 21:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, and it, the weather was so perfect for it.

• 21:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Just, that was like crazy rain.

• 21:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 21:53Rayna Greenberg?

  You did leave the house a little.

• 21:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  We did. I just had to get out. And so we stayed in Friday night, Saturday, all day. It was like raining. I was like, I gotta get out of the house. So we went and got margaritas with Taylor and Blake and just we drank a lot.

• 22:06Rayna Greenberg?

  You can't not drink a lot.

• 22:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, though, we just, I love hanging out with them and Taylor and I'm like, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. And they get to jump in every once in a while. They were just crushing beers. I mean, Shoshone and Blake go like beer for beer, you know, and you know, you're, we're having so much fun and you are like, looking like, are you gonna order another one? Are you gonna order another one? And then you're, then you get to a point where you're like, we'll share.

• 22:25Rayna Greenberg?

  They'll stay out until five in the morning.

• 22:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 22:27Rayna Greenberg?

  If you let them.

• 22:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, so it was fun.

• 22:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. So I don't know. I haven't had a weekend like that. I did not do anything. I didn't see anybody. I consumed a level of television I've never consumed before.

• 22:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. But just, yeah, it was great. Okay, so I want to talk about my prenup. This will be like a longer conversation and Raina obviously contribute. And we talked about prenups in the podcast. We had on Laura Wasser, who is the number one divorce attorney in the country. She did Kim Kardashian's divorce. And we had Jason Tardik, who discussed it a little bit too. And we did do one and I had a wonderful experience. I'm so excited to tell you guys about it. I thought I would kind of start with my feelings about marriage in general, just to catch anyone up who's new here. Because I think how you feel about marriage is tied into the prenup and the process. And I like to run the tape on like, the very first episode of this podcast in 2018. I was like, this is the year I'm gonna get engaged. LOL. So.

• 23:17Rayna Greenberg?

  You know what's so crazy to think is like, what the future of the podcast would have looked like?

• 23:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean. I didn't have any options.

• 23:23Rayna Greenberg?

  But like, if one of us was married from like, day one, I mean, this was like, this like, really like, female empowerment, having a boyfriend is embarrassing podcast.

• 23:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, it really has been. And until I met my now husband and started dating him in 2023, I was not partnered the whole history of the podcast. Raina had a boyfriend era and we dated a ton and we've shared those stories, but like, I didn't have a boyfriend. And so this is kind of why this conversation ties into the topic today, too. And I was just like, I just want to be a single icon and I want to live my best life. And, you know, I got married at 42, which is outside the norm. And as I got into my 30s, our career started taking off. I was like, I don't know if marriage is for me. I'm really trying to not. Not say this exactly how I say it in my stand up, but it is accurate in that I'm not going to change my last name.

• 24:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm making my own money and I don't want children and I think it is so wonderful to be married and have a family and all share the same last name. My parents have been married, what, you know, 42 years?

• 24:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Forty two years and Shashank's parents will be 40 years this year.

• 24:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And both of us, like our family's healthy, stable, long time marriage, our parents is like part of who we are. And what has molded us and we look up to it and it's really important in our lives, but I just wasn't sure what it would benefit to me.

• 24:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 24:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I started dating him and very early on, the day we made it official, which was July 8th, 2023, the day before my 40th birthday. We had a conversation about kids and marriage and he, he'd already knew I didn't want kids and I was like, just to reiterate, I'm not having kids. So if you change your mind, you gotta tell me. And he was like, I, I don't want kids, but I do want to get married. It's important to me and I want that type of commitment in my life. And we talked about our parents and I was like, all right, I will get married. I think in that moment I was like, I think I'm going to marry him. What, you know, like I don't, I think, I think I was starting to feel like I loved him and you know,

• 25:17Rayna Greenberg?

  You told me before your birthday, I think I'm falling in love with him. And I was like, what?

• 25:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  I literally,

• 25:21Rayna Greenberg?

  I think he was going to say it in Cabo. I remember him coming over to your house before we went to that birthday trip and you were like, I'm in love with him. And I was like, what?

• 25:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  He was in love with me too.

• 25:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 25:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Scared to say, we weren't even official.

• 25:30Rayna Greenberg?

  He was in love with you before you guys even met.

• 25:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  He had been in love with me. That's so unfair. So I was excited, obviously to, to fall in love with him, to get engaged and to marry him. And there was never anything in the back of my head, like, I don't really want to, like a wholeheartedly, I want to marry this man. I'm going to spend my life with him. I want to be committed to him. And we always knew a prenup was going to be on the table. For me, it doesn't matter if I'm marrying somebody who makes more or less. I don't think that at this age, two adults coming together, that if I were to marry you and you have more money than me, I'm, the day we get married, I'm entitled to half of that. And I wouldn't want that for me. You shouldn't want that for me. Someone coming in just because they marry me, they are entitled to part of, girls got to eat. Should we get divorced?

• 26:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  And so I always had felt like that and he knew I felt like that too. And you know, I think a lot of people think that's what marriage is about. You come together, everything goes into the pot, you build a family together, you build your own careers together, you get married when you're younger.

• 26:29Rayna Greenberg?

  It's also different when you're, you know, 23 and you're gonna have kids.

• 26:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, and I respect whatever you want to do for your own marriage. That just wasn't me and it wasn't him either. And so this summer in August, I started the prenup journey and I talked to our business manager and he put me in touch with a lawyer and he explained all the things. So California, every state is in some version of legality, but California is a community property state. So you get married without a prenup, the state says everything you both have goes into the pot and you're entitled to half of it. So.

• 26:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Even if you had it before?

• 26:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, like day one of the marriage, everything's in the pot.

• 27:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 27:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  And if we got divorced, a month later, 20 years later.

• 27:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 27:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's entitled to half of it. I'm entitled to half of his.

• 27:10Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 27:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  And spousal support. So whoever makes more will give the other person spousal support.

• 27:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Even if there's not kids?

• 27:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  There's no kids involved.

• 27:17Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 27:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  And neither of us would have wanted that. Like we're grown adults. He would, he would never think Ashley and I are gonna get divorced and she's gonna pay me, we don't have children or vice versa. And so that was something we didn't want to. And I understand why the laws are like this. They're more so to protect women who may give up their careers to raise a family or even not raise a family, support their husband's career. Like I support the structure, but talking about

• 27:46Rayna Greenberg?

  two adults that came into a marriage on equal footing, you both work, you're both capable and you're not having children. It's a different scenario.

• 27:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  So we talk about all this and how both of us, I talked with a lawyer, we would do all the paperwork, do all the financial disclosures, have to submit all this stuff. And then we would both have to get lawyers. So I would have a lawyer and he would have to get a lawyer, especially if you are waiving spousal support. And it's like a bare minimum of to do it that way of like $6,000, probably more like eight upwards of $10,000.

• 28:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Per person?

• 28:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  The whole thing all together.

• 28:15Rayna Greenberg?

  All together. Okay.

• 28:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So I'm thinking like we are paying $8,000, let's say, to just override the state's marriage laws. And this. Started to beg the question of what is the reason for us to get married? Because we're not having kids, we're not changing names. It's just this legal transaction that says now we're entitled to half of each other's money. And now we have to pay extra money to override that. Like, what does it mean? And it started to just get me down. This was right before my bachelorette and I was just like, this is just like an added layer of stress and expenses to what should be this joyful time. I never thought this was going to be romantic.

• 28:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know, I think these conversations are very important and I think this is what it means to be a healthy couple, that you're on the same page and you know all these things about each other. I always knew it was going to be unromantic, but I didn't really expect it to be so like stressful and causing like doubt about the whole journey in, in general. And he and I talked about it and like what marriage means to us and all these other things we have to, to deal with now with the prenup. And we both came to the conclusion that we want to be legally married and committed and we want to do it and we're going to do the prenup and whatever the extra work, the extra admin, where it's worth it to us. And that's when I was thinking to myself, like, there just has to be a better way. Like it's 2025, someone has had to have figured this out, like a better, a cheaper way, like a more streamlined way to do this.

• 29:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Eight to 10 grand, I mean, that's more money than I would have ever had in my savings account in my twenties. It's more than most people have in their savings account. That's a really life-changing amount of money for some people that you don't, you can't afford to do that.

• 29:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, the thing is, is typically the person with more money pays all of that. They pay for their

• 29:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Got it.

• 29:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Future spouse's lawyer fees too, which was not what we were going to do. But anyway, so I start, start Googling and I come across this service called Hello Prenup. And I'm reading about them, they're totally legitimate. They've been on Shark Tank and it was started by these two women. And I see that Laura Wasser was an advisor and I'm like, say less, Laura is involved? And I'm like, this is what I've been looking for. This should be easier. We should be able to do some of this online and not have to go meet with a lawyer and pay all this money. And so I decide to email Laura. I was like, I'm going to email Laura and see what's up. And I was like, because what if I could Work with them, learn more about the company, have a personal experience and also spread

• 30:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  the word on Girls Gotta Eat. I felt like so passionately about it immediately. And Laura responded, I was like, oh, you know, I have a girl crush on Laura. Who doesn't? Yeah. She took like two days to respond, like two days. And she was like, I'm sorry, I've been in trial. I'm like, do not apologize to me.

• 30:52Rayna Greenberg?

  She's, she's a Kim Kardashian's divorce. I mean, name a famous divorce in history. She did it. She's like, sorry, I've been in court. Who's getting divorced?

• 31:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was like, do not say sorry to me. Yeah, I can't believe you responded to me, honestly. Like, I'm so glad you took the time. And so she was like, yes, let's do this. And so she put me in touch with Julia Rogers, who was the co-founder, and she is an attorney, and she started with another woman who's a software engineer. And so I just feel so emotional about this because it was everything I was looking for, and I had the best experience, and it made it so easy. And I was worried at first, it was going to be like a TurboTax, which I tried once years ago and crashed out, you know? And this was just such an easy process. And I didn't need anyone to help me along the way, but I just liked being in touch with Julia and learning about the company. But it's just, you sign up, you invite your partner, you both fill out all the forms, they're so easy to

• 31:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  do. Like, every question you answer, it's a lot of yes or no. And everything that might be the slightest bit confusing, there's like a video tutorial from an attorney on what this means.

• 31:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Because when I started really hearing about the prenup from you, I was like, I always just was a little flippant about it. I was like, everybody should get a prenup. We talked to Laura years ago, she was like, you have a prenup, the state gives you a prenup. And I was like, everybody should just get a prenup. And I just thought, like, you should be able to sign a thing that says, like, I'm fucking leaving with what I came with. But like, you really have to unearth every single dollar that you have made, saved, and that's also coming to you. I didn't even think about inheritance. Like, all these things, like, what happens when we die, and writing a will, and all those things. Like, I never really thought, like, just how granular it was. I was a little flippant about it.

• 32:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, I think that some people also might start the process and not do it. Like, I was always gonna do it, I felt committed to it. But there was that point when I was talking to the first attorney, like, are we really doing this? I have to spend all this money, spend all this time? Like, I'm sure some people are like, yeah, we'll do a prenup. And then they start the So like, fuck it. Let's just hope for the best.

• 32:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 32:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  And of course, he and I, we have plans to break up. Like, that's, that's the whole thing, too. And I love this whole narrative that's coming about that couples that discuss this stuff and have prenups actually break up less because they've had the conversations and they're realistic.

• 33:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, it really speaks a lot to a couple's conflict style, right? I mean, these are really uncomfortable conversations to have. Like, I really, I cannot stress enough how flippant I felt about it previously and how, how difficult these things are to discuss. Like, how much money is coming to you if your parents die?

• 33:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right. And any debts, all that stuff, too.

• 33:20Rayna Greenberg?

  All that stuff. I mean, to disclose that to somebody is really tough. And I think that it's never going to be a fun, easy conversation. Somebody's, you're always going to find out debts about with somebody. You're always going to find out that your partner makes more or less, et cetera. But if you can have those conversations, you are like really in a different league.

• 33:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  But you really have to be on the same page. And of course, we share money and, you know, if one of us really needed support from the other, like, that goes without saying. Like, we live together, we pay rent, we go travel. Like, we're not keeping tabs, you know, like, we have a good thing going. But in terms of what I've built and what I've built with you, when I built on my own and what he's got, like, that's, it's separate. And so to be, you're reading this and you're like, this feels like kind of insensitive sometimes, like, that your answers, but we were aligned and we worked through it. And so we filled out the paperwork online. It was super easy. And then you just put in all your financial stuff and then we each talked to our own lawyer. So I had an hour-long conversation with the lawyer.

• 34:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  He had an hour-long conversation with another lawyer. We went over the prenup in full. And then you basically finalize it. And then you have to wait seven days, at least that's California law, to notarize it. So there's this seven-day waiting period. So the notarization was also very, like, high-tech and cool. Like, it was a virtual with a notary. We did this, like, the Friday before the wedding. That was the timeline. I procrastinated a little bit. I was busy, you know, I was doing the tour. And so we kind of wait, we're down to the wire. But you just are on, you know, Zoom call essentially with somebody. And they walk you through it and just, do you understand all this? You hit yes on a bunch of things, sign a bunch of papers quickly, like, e-sign initial, 20 minutes to notarize it in full, virtually with a notary. And then you're done.

• 35:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  And, I mean, you could do this, the prenup part, in a couple hours. If you had all your financial stuff locked and loaded. I just want to tell people, like, but we did it piece by piece over the course of. You know, a couple of weeks and their flat one-time fee, because you guys will probably think, how much does this cost? The Hella Prenups flat one-time fee is $5.99 per couple.

• 35:23Rayna Greenberg?

  That's fucking crazy.

• 35:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  And they also offer e-signature and notarization for $50 per couple and then they have the option to add attorney services at any point. So there are Q and A sessions for $49 per and then attorney document review, whatever. Bottom line, the full thing with the lawyer is $6.99 per person. So $1,400, if you do the both lawyers, you don't always need that. We did that. $1,400 plus $2,000 with all the bells and whistles for the most part. You're in like a $2,000 range to get this done. But again, depending on your situation, it could be $600.

• 35:58Rayna Greenberg?

  What an amazing company.

• 35:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  It really is. I just wanted a couple of stats from them. They've protected over $27 billion in assets and I love this stat, approximately 20% of the US prenup market passes through Hella Prenup. So they're doing 20% of all prenups in the US. These prenups are, obviously, goes without saying, holding up in court. And I know that prenups can have stigma around them and if it helps, you can call it a premarital agreement. That's another official term you can use. It sounds a little gentler. But ultimately, it's just saying, obviously, we plan to never need this. And that's why I will reiterate that studies show that couples who do these agreements have lower divorce rates. But in case things

• 36:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  do go south and one party exits this marriage by divorce or worse, not to get too dark, you get to decide what will happen to your current and future assets rather than what the state decides for you. And it's more than just money in there. It's what the plan would be for your shared home, whether you own or rent, your pet, your pet's medical bills. You know, we had to put stuff in the agreement about Azul. And it is just providing that clarity and protection on your own terms, which is what I love about it and why I wanted to share this so much. And I became friends with Julia, the co-founder. She came to my show in Boston. She's a Boston girlie. She came to the show. It was this really full-circle moment at the very last show of the tour.

• 37:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  And to meet Shashank and I was like, she's helping with the prenup, you know, and I just really wanted to be in it. I didn't need her help, but I wanted to like, talk to her along the way because I really want to speak about this and spread this gospel to anyone that is wanting to do a prenup and is like stressed about the cost and the time and the meetings and all that stuff. That there is an easier way. I feel like so happy these women started this.

• 37:48Rayna Greenberg?

  Wow. No, I just, I love it. I think how many people probably walk into this and see a price tag of six to $10,000 and they're like, nothing's gonna happen. We're gonna be fine. Like, I cannot tell you how many divorces I've seen recently and you and I've talked about this, like, with and without prenups and like, we have friends that had a car, a home, all kinds of, they were divorced in six weeks because they had a prenup. And other friends that this will drag on forever. And like, you think you love somebody and you are a rock solid at the beginning of your relationship and nothing will make somebody act worse than if you leave them when they don't want to end the relationship. Like, I have seen the craziest behavior from people that loved each other more than anybody in the world. It is, there's nothing more common on earth.

• 38:29Rayna Greenberg?

  And to be able to see people protect themselves, men and women, for under two grand. I just like, love what they're doing.

• 38:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  I did ask them just for a little discount code. They like, wanted to partner with us. So you guys can use GGE for a hundred dollars off.

• 38:40Rayna Greenberg?

  I love it. It's a big discount.

• 38:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And that is helloprenup.com. Just super easy. So I just wanted to share that and I really feel for anybody who's going through this process and it's not sexy.

• 38:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, I had no idea how unsexy it was.

• 38:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Marriage in general is just not sexy. It's just, it's paperwork. It's government paperwork. And now this is what like, our state gets to decide our relationship is.

• 39:06Rayna Greenberg?

  It would be a really funny time to announce you're not actually married.

• 39:10Rayna Greenberg?

  After the two hour wedding episode. You're like, you know, we just didn't.

• 39:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, I asked the lawyer that, like, and that's a whole other conversation. Like, he, he was like, kinda doomsday about when couples don't get married and something called palimony. A partner can come for someone based on what they were promised and it's really vague and gray area. And it's actually, you're more protected.

• 39:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  In a marriage with a prenup than not getting married. Palimony is just you weren't officially married, but you were living as if you were, you were living together.

• 39:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Common law.

• 39:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And someone can come and be like, well, they told me that I could have the house. And there's really like, you just have to go to court to prove it.

• 39:54Rayna Greenberg?

  I think that really happens a lot with like women that move in with men that promise them the world and like they give up their jobs and their homes. And then men just leave them with nothing.

• 40:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 40:02Rayna Greenberg?

  Men are embarrassing.

• 40:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Which brings us to our topic today. So we will get into it. Just going to talk about our remaining partners. I'm telling you guys about Saks Fifth Avenue. This episode is brought to you by Saks Fifth Avenue. Okay, this is the perfect place to find holiday gifts, inspiration, whoever you guys are shopping for. Maybe you have a new husband. Your, or your family.

• 40:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Is that a gift guide on Saks?

• 40:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  If you think you're not getting something from Saks, actually, I'm just going to get you something and put it in a Saks bag, your style.

• 40:33Rayna Greenberg?

  I have to tell you something after this.

• 40:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  What? Oh my God, you guys, she's full of secrets. Okay, so you guys can shop Saks. I just am on the site all the time. I mean, their gift guides are incredible. We always say men can be sometimes hard to shop for, right? I'm looking at this polo sweatshirt right now. I think you wore a shirt with a bear on it last week. So here's another one, your little.

• 40:53Rayna Greenberg?

  The polo bear shirts, they, they slap so hard.

• 40:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 40:56Rayna Greenberg?

  There's so many versions.

• 40:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  This Arctic polo bear sweatshirt, under 200 bucks. That's a great gift. And also anything you want to wear to a holiday party, of course, or any special event. They have you covered and they really are going to help you find stuff that you just don't see everywhere. That's the thing, like every time I'm on the site, I see clothing that I just have never seen before. And it can really help you stand out and just feel extra stylish, especially if you're in your fashion era. Rain and I are in our self proclaimed fashion era. And it really is going to help you.

• 41:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Not today for me.

• 41:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Find gifts for even the pickiest people on your list or curate your own holiday wishlist. That can help you host the perfect holiday party or dinner, anything you want to do, even if you're just staying cozy at home. Like Rain all weekend, you want to just lounge in some soft, cozy, comfy clothes. They have you covered for that too. So you guys should check them out this holiday season. You can head to Saks Fifth Avenue or saks.com to make shopping.

• 41:48Rayna Greenberg?

  Easier. And speaking of holiday season, get a little gifty this season and some spending can be a little out of control, low sales, which are great, but it's hard to know kind of like what your personal finances look like. So Rocket Money really is the best app for that. It is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. It'll monitor your spending and help lower your bills so you can grow your savings. So the interface is great. When you go on the app, it just gives you like an overview of everything that you're subscribed to, what your spending looks like. It's really easy to navigate it. The dashboard just lays out the whole financial picture of what bills you have to pay and paydays and things like that. So if you're just like, I want to get my finances in order this holiday season, this is like the best step. And one thing they're going to do is help you cancel unwanted subscriptions. So it'll

• 42:33Rayna Greenberg?

  lay out all the subscriptions you have and they can help you get rid of those. They can help you negotiate lower bills and you can get alerts for your bills increasing in price. So it monitors all this activity, all this spending. And Rocket Money has saved users over $2.5 billion, including over 880 million in canceled subscriptions alone. Their 10 million members save up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com/gge today. That's rocketmoney.com/gge. Rocketmoney.com/gge. So today we're talking about if having a boyfriend is embarrassing and neither of us have them. So we are not embarrassing.

• 43:15Rayna Greenberg?

  We are married and single icons.

• 43:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm obsessed with that.

• 43:20Rayna Greenberg?

  We would never do you guys wrong by like, ew, having a boyfriend. That's so gross. But this article came out as an opinion piece in British Vogue. It's by the author, Chantay Joseph, and it's called, "Is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing Now?" And we are going to read you the article. It unpacks cultural norms and social norms around having a boyfriend and how things have really changed. And Ashley and I really want to unpack themes in this and just how our own experiences have changed and our listeners' experiences over the years and the types of messages we've gotten over the years versus now. In relation to this, and the response to this article was unbelievable. I mean, just millions of people, from men, from women, from people in relationships, not in relationships. And this has sparked a huge discussion online. I think we're the last podcast to talk about it.

• 44:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Worldwide. I think it's been translated in different languages. I mean, she is floored. Like, this put Vogue on the map. Is Vogue back? Vogue is so back. People hadn't heard of Vogue. No, I'm just kidding. But seriously,

• 44:20Rayna Greenberg?

  You're so back.

• 44:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Vogue has stayed so relevant for its entire existence. But this is just Vogue, Vogue, Vogue, Vogue, Vogue, Vogue. And I just, I love that it was in Vogue.

• 44:29Rayna Greenberg?

  I do too. I love it. British Vogue.

• 44:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, that's the thing. Like, she was saying, and we'll talk about her response article. She wrote a follow up and she's like, people are calling me this New York City Carrie Bradshaw icon. I live in London.

• 44:44Rayna Greenberg?

  She is giving that, though.

• 44:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. All right, I'm gonna try to speed read this. I might leave out some of the most relevant stuff. I read this article over and over to prepare for this. But we just felt like you guys, if you haven't read it, we don't want you to navigate away. So we just thought we would read the article for you. Okay, so titled, "Is Having A Boyfriend Embarrassing Now?" The opening, I can't get over. She says, "If someone so much as says, 'My boyfriend on social media, they're muted.'"

• 45:08Rayna Greenberg?

  You know there are some girls like that, though, that I'm like, you have made this your whole personality and I'm out.

• 45:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  "There's nothing I hate more than following someone for fun, only for their content to become my boyfriendified suddenly. This is probably because for so long it felt like we were living in what one of my favorite Substackers calls boyfriendland, a world where women's online identities centered around the lives of their partners, a situation rarely seen reversed."

• 45:29Rayna Greenberg?

  When I read that, I was like, oh, never see that.

• 45:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  It chills, the whole episode. "Women were rewarded for their ability to find and keep a man with elevated social status and praise. It became even more suffocating when this could be leveraged on social media for engagement. And if you were serious enough, financial gain. However, more recently, there's been a pronounced shift in the way people showcase their relationships online. Far from fully hard launching romantic partners, straight women are opting for subtler signs. A hand on a steering wheel, clinking glasses at dinner, or the back of someone's head. On the more confusing end, you have faces blurred out of wedding pictures or entire professionally edited videos with the fiance conveniently cropped out of all shots. Women are obscuring their partner's face when they post, as if they want to erase the fact that they exist without actually not posting them. So what gives? Are people embarrassed by their boyfriends now? Or is it something more complicated going on? To me, it feels like the result of women wanting to straddle two worlds. One where they can receive the social benefits of having a partner, but also not appear.

• 46:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  So boyfriend-obsessed that they come across as quite culturally loser-ish."

• 46:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  They want the prize and celebration of partnership, but understand the norminess of it, says Zoe Sammudzy, writer and activist. In other words, in an era of widespread hetero-fatalism, women don't want to be seen as being all about their man, but they also want the clout that comes with being partnered. But it's not all about image. When I did a call out on Instagram, plenty of women told me they were in fact superstitious. They feared the evil eye, a belief that their happy relationships would spark jealousy. I'm going to kind of paraphrase their concern about their relationship ending and then being stuck with the posts. Someone said, even though I'm a romantic, I still feel like men will embarrass you 12 years in. So claiming them feels so lame. Then there was an overwhelming sense from single and partnered women alike that regardless of the relationship, being with a man was an almost guilty thing to do.

• 47:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Someone on the Delusional Diaries podcast, they discussed whether having a boyfriend is lame now. Why does a boyfriend feel Republican? Read a top comment. That's my favorite line. Boyfriends are out of style. They won't come back in until they start acting right. Read another comment with thousands of likes. In essence, having a boyfriend typically takes hits on a woman's aura, as a commenter claimed. And it's not just in these women's imagination. Audiences are icked out by seeing too much boyfriend content, myself included, it seems, as though indicated by my liberal use of the mute button. There's a British Vogue contributor. They mentioned that hard launched her boyfriend. She lost hundreds of followers. There's something cringey and embarrassing about constantly posting your partner these days, she tells me. And then also, you can feel guilty about what feels like bragging

• 47:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  when the dating landscape is really bad at the moment. She says, I wouldn't want to be boastful. Sophie Miller, a content creator, also experienced people unfollowing her when she shared a romantic relationship. She admits that her content perhaps becomes less exciting when she is in a relationship. Being single gives you this ultimate freedom to say and do what you want. It is absolutely not every woman, but I do notice that we can become more beige and watered down online when in a relationship, myself included. From my conversation, one thing is certain. The script is shifting. Being partnered doesn't affirm your womanhood anymore. It is no longer considered an achievement. And if anything, it's become more of a flex to pronounce yourself single. As I read that line and I got up out of my seat. As a fucking married person. Okay, as straight women were confronting something that every other sexuality has had to contend with, a politicization- of our identity.

• 48:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Heterosexuality has long been purposely indefinable, so it is harder for those within it and outside of it to critique. However, as our traditional roles begin to crumble, maybe we're being forced to reevaluate our blind allegiance to heterosexuality. Obviously, there's no shame falling in love, but there is also no shame in trying and failing to find it or not trying at all. And as long as we're openly rethinking and criticizing heteronormativity, having a boyfriend will remain a somewhat fragile or even contentious concept within public life. This is also happening alongside a wave of women reclaiming and romanticizing their single life, where being single was once a cautionary tale, you'll end up a spinster with loads of cats, childless cat lady, J.D. Vance. It is now becoming a desirable and coveted status, another nail in the coffin of a centuries-old heterosexual fairy tale that never really benefited women to begin with.

• 49:18Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, I love this article. Thank you to this author for writing this. It is really phenomenal to just see this cultural shift, this social shift. And you and I have seen this firsthand because of the tone of the emails we get from people over the years. And some of our most popular episodes in the last year were Scott Galloway and Professor Chescot, which both push back against these norms and say that like, men are acting like trash. And until they act better, women shouldn't necessarily be with them. And for so many years, the rhetoric was, all these women are gonna end up alone, there's never been so many women that are unmarried without children. And I think this takes back the narrative of like, look at these lives that women are building, and look how much happier you can be single than with somebody that is dragging you down and draining your resources.

• 50:01Rayna Greenberg?

  And none of this is to say, wanting partnership is not embarrassing. Wanting partnership is beautiful. And if somebody can have what you have, a real teammate in life that makes their life better and uplifts them, makes their life easier, that's the goal. We're social beings, we all want to be with somebody. But until we find that, making your entire personality and identity about another person who might not even be worthy of it, that's what's embarrassing.

• 50:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  And women don't need men anymore, hot take. And I love the content surrounding this and how marriage benefits men more than women now in this day and age. I saw a comment, and I wish I screenshot it, but it said, if marriage benefited women, they would have taken it away from us by now.

• 50:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Seriously.

• 50:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 50:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know, like, it's for men.

• 50:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Like access to abortion.

• 50:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, it's like, just like healthcare, you know, the difference between men's and women's healthcare. So, women are just more powerful than ever, and so many women obviously have not bought into this traditional patriarchy, but even more women are waking up to like, I don't have to live like this. And we're seeing more women get elected, and there is this shift. I like feel it in my bones. And there was quite a response to this, and I want to say, the title was not, not inflammatory.

• 51:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's just, I can understand why it struck a nerve. However, you have to read the whole fucking article. Like, the response to this was proof we're losing the fight against literacy. Also, it was posed as a question. Also, it wasn't like, having a boyfriend is embarrassing, you fucking suckers. Like, but people were pissed. And it's because it can be destabilizing to question what you've always thought is, I don't know, an end goal.

• 51:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Built your whole life driving towards this.

• 52:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, you know, like, the most impressive way to live. And people are saying that's not true anymore. And so I understand where it did strike a nerve with a lot of people.

• 52:12Rayna Greenberg?

  It was the status symbol. And I mean, I always joked that like, when I hard-launched my boyfriend years ago, it was the most engagement I've ever gotten. It was more than any accomplishment you and I had ever done. And I think, you know, being in love and being in a relationship is the most relatable thing in the world. Starting a new business, selling out the Chicago Theater, not the most relatable thing in the world. So people can easily be a part of it. And so I understand people championing it. All women have been raised that like, finding a partner is the most important thing. So I understand that it is like, a real shock to the system. It sort of reminds me of like the body positivity movement and how I have been conditioned my whole life to hate my body. And I woke up one day and somebody was like, you have to love your body now. And you're like, wait, I spent my whole life.

• 52:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 52:51Rayna Greenberg?

  I spent my whole life hating myself. Now I have to love myself. So I think this really just questions, you know, what does it look like to not have a partner? What do other status symbols look like? And my personal experience is like, I sort of zoomed out, looked at all my girlfriends. I've never had more single girlfriends in my life. Really successful, amazing women that all seemed pretty happy. And I've seen quite a few girlfriends walk away from men in the last year that made a ton of money, could have made their lives real easy, could have provided a home and children and all those things. And they were living with these men. And I have seen my friends walk away from situations that could have benefited them in a lot of ways, because they were not happy in those situations. And I love that we're championing that. I love that that's really overwhelmingly what

• 53:34Rayna Greenberg?

  the, our listeners are emailing us about. I found this person, they're fine.

• 53:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 53:39Rayna Greenberg?

  But could being alone maybe be better than just fine?

• 53:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm hmm.

• 53:42Rayna Greenberg?

  And I, I love that we're finally questioning this.

• 53:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right. Like, what's embarrassing is being with someone who makes your life worse, who makes your life harder, more stressful, more unstable, just so you're not single? You know, obviously what's embarrassing is letting a man become your whole life. And we can kind of tackle that later. And abandoning your friendships and your hobbies, all the things that make you you for some man. And the thing that I just keep coming back to is that any woman who was brought up, whether it be through nurture or nature or both, to believe that marriage is the end goal, and this is our greatest accomplishment as a woman, is to be a wife and/or a mother. And always felt like being partnered was better

• 54:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  than being single. Like, a lot of those women felt like being single was embarrassing.

• 54:34Rayna Greenberg?

  Absolutely.

• 54:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  We all know those people, that they think that's a fate worse than death. And they just hop from relationship to relationship because the, being single of it all is what's so embarrassing. Which I couldn't relate less. I've never felt like that. I've been single most of my life. And so, it's Totally flipping that on its head. I mean, I think it's hard for some people to process. They're like, oh, it's the exact opposite of what I thought all this time. I was trying to avoid the thing that I thought was embarrassing, which was to be alone.

• 55:03Rayna Greenberg?

  I have never been more single than I am today. I'm not dating anybody. I am not really sleeping with anybody. I'm really happy.

• 55:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 55:09Rayna Greenberg?

  I just, I had this great weekend. No one was bothering me. I have all these girlfriends and social plans and I feel really fulfilled professionally. We have a lot of like great stuff coming up and there's not a real deficit in my life because I think, I'm never waiting for somebody to ask me like, why are you single? Why are you dating anybody? I don't have any fears. I never have really about going out for the holidays and someone's like, where, where's the guy? Like, you know, who I just, I feel more comfortable in my singlet. I've been happier than I ever have. I have more single girlfriends than I've ever had in my life. And I just, I understand that's not everybody's experience. I'm really lucky that, we don't really have a lot of girlfriends, even the ones that are married or in serious relationships that make that their whole personality. Like, none of my girlfriends have ever made me feel stupid or less than because I'm single and they've managed to figure it out.

• 55:51Rayna Greenberg?

  And, you know, these like fuckboys I deal with, like, no one's ever made me feel less than. They take it seriously. They take my life seriously. And I'm really lucky that you and I, that's our experience and we're surrounded by really amazing women. But I, I understand that it's hard to be in a community where everybody is married with children and you're like, I feel left out.

• 56:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 56:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you feel like, I, I feel like on social media, and I didn't really even think about this until this article came out, but like, you used to see so many like influencer girlies and a lot of their content was them and their boyfriend, so much of it. And I feel like I don't see that as much as I used to, like, and I really like ran the tape. Do you feel like it's become like less in vogue to be this like influencer couple and that's your whole brand?

• 56:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. I mean, that's the part of the shift, I think. And it's also okay if you still do that. And we know some of those couples and I think overall, we just need to stop policing women. And whether you choose to make a partner a big part of your world publicly, or you choose to de-center them, I support both. You know, I think I fall somewhere in the middle. I mean, you can agree or disagree, but I think we've gotten to this place where we're like so critical in general. And I think. The big thing that Hannah and Paige have owned is the de-centering of their partners. And then, you know, you have people that are going to critique that too. And they're like, well, they must not be in love and they must be breaking up. And, you know, you can't win a lot of times.

• 57:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  And so I think I wanted to make that statement that we've just got to stop policing women, like whatever they want to do. But I found it really fascinating in the article that clearly there's a shift, a cultural shift, and women are just becoming more powerful and independent by the day, but of the embarrassment of it all. And just like, the concept of not posting someone because you might break up isn't new, but just more than ever, it's just so much bad behavior. And even someone saying like, you're bound to embarrass me. Like, you don't get to be a part of my social presence is interesting.

• 57:47Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, we've never seen worse behavior in the history of time. I think every, I feel like every day, I mean, I only date men, so I can only speak to men, but only every day, men invent new ways to be unbelievably terrible. I, I've dealt with so much bad behavior this year from people that I've dated. It's just new and fresh all the time. I can't believe it. And I don't feel personally embarrassed. It's embarrassing to lean into that and to tolerate it and to lower your standards for somebody. And you shouldn't feel embarrassed. I know you find somebody that you care about and people are imperfect and you want to give them grace and understanding and compassion. But I see so many people just stick around and be like, well, did you ever see this meme that said, like, I'm just a girl standing here, asking a totally mediocre guy who I'm better looking than.

• 58:31Rayna Greenberg?

  It's okay if he doesn't want to commit to me, maybe he could just text me a little bit more.

• 58:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, like something in the vein, yeah.

• 58:37Rayna Greenberg?

  It's, I see so much terrible behavior and I hate that women have stuck around for it for so long. And it's behavior that men would never stick around for. The, again, I can't, I can't speak to what women do, I only date men. But the inconsistency and the gaslighting and the cheating and even all the way up to abuse. I mean, I cannot believe what women have been forced to deal with that men would never deal with. And dealing with that for a long time can feel embarrassing. And I like that women are just like, until y'all get better, I'm going to be over here in my corner with my friends, my hobbies, my job, my interests, until you get better.

• 59:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I agree. And You know, a lot of the takes were, it's embarrassing if he's embarrassing. You know, like, it's embarrassing if he's an embarrassing guy and he doesn't treat you well and he makes your life shitty. We co-sign that, but she wrote in her follow-up article, which I also really appreciated, she said, "Another common response to my article was an immediate rush to add caveats to the main question. People insisted that having a boyfriend had the potential to be embarrassing only when a man doesn't meet certain criteria or isn't good to you. Whether that's true or not is irrelevant. The need to identify exceptions is one way of evading conversation about meaningful change within heterosexual dynamics and the mess of modern dating." You know, because everyone was like, "Not my man. Not my man." And like, I also get that, too.

• 59:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Of course. You feel like, "Not my man. It's not my man. It's not about me."

• 59:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Well, it reminds me of this TikTok I posted, and I don't think that she's the first person to ever post this, but it said, "The biggest man haters have the best men at home. I will die on this hill." And I think that's a lot of what we talked about with Drew Offwallow, of just, like, women who understand the harm that men cause in this society and have high standards for the men they let in their life, and kind of do the whole man-hating thing if you really want to put it in that bucket, which I don't really think that we do. But, you know, you can throw us in there, talking about bad men behavior, and we're feminists, and the man that you do choose is going to be a good one. And I love that take.

• 1:00:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I think also, like, you look at your own relationship, and you're like, you specifically, like, "We get along, we treat each other really well. Why is this so hard for some men?" And I think no one hates this behavior from men more than men.

• 1:00:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know.

• 1:00:48Rayna Greenberg?

  I think men look at other men, and you're like, "You're making us look so bad." And I was really shocked. I had, like, a pretty... I slept with a friend of ours. It didn't go well. It was bad. He treated me really poorly. And I was very upset. It really took me out. And all my girlfriends were super supportive. You were... everybody was wonderfully supportive. The people that got the most mad about this were our male friends, the ones that you and I would say are in great relationships, they're great husbands, they're great boyfriends. They're the ones that are like, "I would never fucking do this. I cannot believe this behavior." They were more mad than my girlfriends were.

• 1:01:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Because I think men are like, "I am better, and it's not that hard."

• 1:01:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, this is how I feel about white women. And I bring this, I bring this comparison up all the time because it's really all I got. When you talk about men versus women, I'm going to speak on behalf of white women. And when I see a headline or a TikTok or an article or whatever about the problem with white women, no, I don't think I'm perfect. And I'm, I try my best every day to be the best white woman I can be. But I know they're not talking about me in the way that these women vote, what they support, their misogyny, their values, the inflicting harm on immigrants or whatever it may be. We know the women you're talking about and that's not who I am. But it makes me even more mad because we're part of the same group and you're making us look bad.

• 1:02:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  And so I understand where men are like pissed about this. And I was watching some of the response videos too, because I mean, my TikTok is just fire all the time. It is just hot progressive people. My entire TikTok, it is incredible. It was like the hottest women you've ever seen, standing up for what's right and Democrats. And then these hot guys like talking about how men need to act right. Like it is so perfectly curated. But I was watching a guy talk about like, hey, guys, women are out here saying we're embarrassing, like men are behaving badly, we got to do better. And it felt really authentic and it was a great message. And I was like, I know that face. Who is that? And it was Casey from Fuckboy Island, like so many years ago. And I was like, what a redemption arc, I guess.

• 1:02:50Rayna Greenberg?

  That's funny.

• 1:02:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I love that. Like, that's how it should feel. Like, of course, there was immediate backlash from insecure men and she got hate mail and death threats, I'm sure. And she talks about that in her follow-up article. She says, "The article sparked some hateful abuse." And people told her, "You're going to die sad and single and, you know, threatened her," whatever. And she said, "At points, all of this was worrying, but I quickly realized they likely saw the article as a threat to a system that has historically favored them. If having a man used to be the ultimate prize and now some women are questioning whether it is anymore, well, that's bound to be destabilizing."

• 1:03:26Rayna Greenberg?

  So I thought that was really interesting in connection to why does it feel decidedly Republican? And the reason, and I, listen, Republicans are not the same as MAGA to me, but MAGA to me is a system that upholds the patriarchy and men over everything and has really, they're taking away women's reproductive rights. I mean, it is the party that is doing that, that is benefiting the patriarchy. So, you know, all of this, having a boyfriend and being with somebody that is mediocre or doesn't treat you well, that benefits men. This all benefits. So it feels decidedly MAGA.

• 1:04:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And it's, Rain and I are out here joking about it being embarrassing having a boyfriend. We're just joking about the article, like saying, Rain is single, I'm married, like whatever, like we would never, like I had a boyfriend. I mean, you know, it's not embarrassing to be in a healthy relationship with someone you love. I think that most people want love in their life. You mentioned it, they want partnership. And the writer says that in her follow-up article too, like, I want to find somebody too. And that's why it was so interesting, the way that people read this and got so defensive. And again, it's because you thought, you may have thought that having this boyfriend was this universally respected thing and people are questioning that.

• 1:04:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  But it's not, I mean, obviously, like if you're in a relationship you're proud of, it's embarrassing. And show it or don't.

• 1:04:45Rayna Greenberg?

  And wanting it is not embarrassing.

• 1:04:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:04:47Rayna Greenberg?

  And finding somebody who treats you really well is wonderful. You know, I think it is important that the cultural shift, the suggestion that there's another way of life that could also make you happy, that you don't have to identify as having a partner as being the most important achievement in the world. There's other important achievements in the world. And I'm pretty proud of myself. I have a great life. I don't have a boyfriend. And if I found one, great, that's great too. But if not, if I never find somebody, I will have a great life. And either way is fine. I just, I like that we're challenging these, these cultural norms.

• 1:05:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, that's the biggest thing for me. Like, the old school way of thinking where women in relationships had a higher place in society than single women. And it shouldn't be like that. And this is flipping that on its head. But at the end of the day, I don't like women being defined by their relationship status. And that was a pushback on the article too. And I don't like that. Single women are trendy now. Like, I like the ultimate message because I always want like to empower single women, live your best life. You don't need a partner. But I just want to toe that line of implying that independence is a trend or single women against partnered women. And I think some people took that away and you can take that away from it or not. But I think when you really start to label and define

• 1:06:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  women by their relationship status, that gets into dangerous territory and that defeats the purpose.

• 1:06:08Rayna Greenberg?

  I think that's a good point. To me, the ultimate takeaway is like, there's just a lot of paths to happiness. And if you want your whole identity in the world and on social media to be you and your partner, that's fine, too. A lot of people make a lot of money doing that. That's fine also. But I like just opening up the conversation that like, you can be happy in any different phase of life.

• 1:06:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:28Rayna Greenberg?

  And it's not embarrassing to be single. I mean, how many people were single at your wedding this week? I couldn't believe it.

• 1:06:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:33Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, we saw a couple people come without their partners.

• 1:06:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:36Rayna Greenberg?

  We have a lot of single girlfriends. I just, I feel really lucky that the women in my life, one, we're not friends with her anymore, but the women in my life don't define themselves by their partners. And they also have wonderful partners, you know? I think that like, both things can exist. You can have this amazing relationship at home and also not define yourself by it.

• 1:06:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, it was nice to see that at the wedding, that there were single people there, looking hot, living their best life. And they're also just really great men, you know, that were there. And just, I don't know, hearing about my friends' husbands who were, they were so excited to dress up in Indian clothes or a chance to break out the tux and be there for all four of the events and just really support me. It just was really nice. They're just, I don't have any really, those like duds of husbands in our, in our lives, really.

• 1:07:27Rayna Greenberg?

  I love our friends' husbands.

• 1:07:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. What would you have done if the headline said, "Is having a podcast embarrassing?"

• 1:07:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Show them my bank account.

• 1:07:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Would have struck a nerve. That's so fair.

• 1:07:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  Amen, sis.

• 1:07:45Rayna Greenberg?

  What would you have done?

• 1:07:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Quit the podcast. I was trying to reframe it a little bit. You know, I was trying to put myself in the shoes of someone that would think that a big accomplishment of theirs and something they put a lot of weight and value on is being questioned as embarrassing.

• 1:08:02Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, so I'm glad you asked me that because I was talking to this guy last week we were out with and very good looking guy. He was with some friends of ours and he had this conversation with me where I don't think he really knew who he was talking to, I'll give him that. He said, I find it really, he was talking about his ex and what she liked. He said, I find it really unattractive, women that want the spotlight. I could never be with somebody that really wants a lot of attention, that's posting themselves a lot, that's just like, look at me, I need all this, I need everybody to hear my thoughts and opinions. I was kind of laughing on the inside as he was saying this. And I, that's okay to have a personal preference also. I was not on a date with this man who knew everything about me and then it was insulting me. He was expressing a personal preference to me.

• 1:08:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:43Rayna Greenberg?

  And as he was saying that, I just thought, this doesn't apply to me. I just don't care. Yes, I need a lot of attention. I have a big platform. I want to talk about what I think and feel publicly on the internet all the time. It's not going to be for everybody. If some people find it cringe and embarrassing, that's fine. You and I, I think have changed the world and changed people's lives and if other people find that cringe, that's their preference.

• 1:09:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, and I love to wrap the conversation up in that way. If this struck a nerve with you, are you embarrassed of your boyfriend? You know, like so many people did this clapback. Uh, Vogue, is this embarrassing?

• 1:09:21Rayna Greenberg?

  And it's some mediocre guy. It's some mid guy. Like, I watch a lot of the response videos. Is this embarrassing? And it's like, he brought you flowers. No, you didn't get it. Did you read it? You didn't, you missed the point completely and now you're overcompensating and I think you are embarrassed.

• 1:09:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  You are embarrassing. You're exactly who the article is talking about being embarrassing.

• 1:09:40Rayna Greenberg?

  I just love that whole response. Oh, I'm sorry. And it'd be like the corniest couple video you've ever seen. Get this, Vogue.

• 1:09:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Single haters, you know? So, anyway.

• 1:09:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, listen, if you don't think it's about you, it's not about you. Yeah, let's bring reading comprehension back.

• 1:10:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Let's make reading great again.

• 1:10:05Rayna Greenberg?

  That guy did apologize the next day. Not to me, but he told our friend to apologize to me.

• 1:10:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, and that's the thing. I mean, I don't want a guy that's in the spotlight like that.

• 1:10:14Rayna Greenberg?

  And there's things about that guy I wouldn't like too. I wasn't saying it to his face, but.

• 1:10:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, that's the difference. He felt comfortable just insulting you in your face.

• 1:10:21Rayna Greenberg?

  He was like, you know what's really gross is when people want the spotlight. And I'm like, you know how successful I am?

• 1:10:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's like, you know when women hold microphones? I just like find it so disgusting. It's just such an ick when women think they should be able to speak into a mic.

• 1:10:34Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm like, yeah, no, totally. You are lucky. You're six two.

• 1:10:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, worst fictional boyfriends. And this is a discourse we've seen. And do you think it's in tandem with the article or is it just a coincidence?

• 1:10:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Vogue put out the article.

• 1:10:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, well, I just was seeing like BuzzFeeds and different things like that. Okay, Vogue did this.

• 1:10:49Rayna Greenberg?

  So Vogue put up an article, the 13 most embarrassing boyfriends in pop culture.

• 1:10:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, got it. Sorry. Okay. Fuck it, keep it in.

• 1:10:57Rayna Greenberg?

  This is not our, yeah, this is not an original idea.

• 1:10:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, they have all mine on there.

• 1:11:01Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, listen, it's gonna be a lot of the same people. I think there's only one. Actually, I think I have two. I think the most embarrassing boyfriend of all time is Joe Goldberg from You. He is a murderer.

• 1:11:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Is he?

• 1:11:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Is he a murderer? Do you watch You?

• 1:11:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Season one a little bit.

• 1:11:18Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, he's not the most embarrassing, honestly.

• 1:11:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:21Rayna Greenberg?

  The most embarrassing of all time ever, hearts up, is Mr. Big.

• 1:11:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mr. Big, okay.

• 1:11:25Rayna Greenberg?

  There's nothing more embarrassing. And I love that we as a society, the cultural shift from like,

• 1:11:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 1:11:31Rayna Greenberg?

  I just wanna love like that.

• 1:11:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 1:11:33Rayna Greenberg?

  To realizing what a toxic dumpster fire that was.

• 1:11:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. Okay, close second is Berger.

• 1:11:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Definitely.

• 1:11:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Berger at least got out of there, though. Yes, Big is worse. Big is 100% worse, but Berger's a close second. And I think Berger is tied for second with Alexander Petrovsky.

• 1:11:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Really? Petrovsky, because he just wanted to be number one.

• 1:11:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, and I think he didn't really show her a lot of care. And he moved her to Paris and kind of abandoned her.

• 1:11:58Rayna Greenberg?

  I think that that relationship would have been better, with just somebody who didn't have any career aspirations, somebody much younger, that just wants to support somebody.

• 1:12:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Have kids, take their money.

• 1:12:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, big question for you. I want to do one more Sex and the City. I want to ask you who you think is worse, Richard Wright?

• 1:12:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 1:12:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Or Trey McDougal?

• 1:12:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm sorry. It was embarrassing. Charlotte never fucked him before she married him. And I hate to blame the woman, but Charlotte, that's embarrassing. You didn't see if that dick worked.

• 1:12:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Different things were, so Charlotte was being embarrassing. She's the embarrassing boyfriend.

• 1:12:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, like she's, she's the, it's embarrassing to have a boyfriend girl.

• 1:12:34Rayna Greenberg?

  Richard is only embarrassing because he cheats on her, right?

• 1:12:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 1:12:37Rayna Greenberg?

  He was just, but all, all other things considered, he was fine. And then Trey, what? He was like a crazy mama's boy.

• 1:12:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think I'm going Trey.

• 1:12:45Rayna Greenberg?

  I think Trey is worse.

• 1:12:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think, who I think should be more embarrassed is Charlotte.

• 1:12:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Cause Richard was hotter and richer.

• 1:12:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  She should have fucked him before the wedding.

• 1:12:53Rayna Greenberg?

  She should be embarrassed. I can't, honestly, any man that lets their mother just walk up into their house when we are home.

• 1:13:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Bonnie, yeah.

• 1:13:02Rayna Greenberg?

  That's crazy.

• 1:13:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, Trey. Trey is such an ick.

• 1:13:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Trey's, yeah, Trey's an ick. Warner from Legally Blonde.

• 1:13:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Nice. That's a great one.

• 1:13:10Rayna Greenberg?

  Not disputable though, in any way, you know, Warner, obviously just terrible.

• 1:13:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, that's the thing. I like the ones that are new to the zeitgeist in Bad Boyfriends, which is Ross Geller.

• 1:13:21Rayna Greenberg?

  I love that you said that.

• 1:13:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  There is a real discussion about how Ross was such a shitty boyfriend. And like, I saw this whole carousel on Elite Daily. I mean, we don't need to go through it off. You watch Friends, you know, but the list of pros and cons, you weren't such a Friends person.

• 1:13:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, no, give me the cons. I need, I need it to be explained a little bit more.

• 1:13:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. He once wrote a list of pros and cons about Rachel and Julie. And for Rachel, he wrote, "Just a waitress spoiled too into her looks." He wrote that about her and they got back together after that. He dated her sister. People forget that.

• 1:13:51Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, what?

• 1:13:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  He was so jealous of her career. Someone wrote, "Rachel should have gone to Paris and Ross should have gone to hell."

• 1:13:56Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, he just couldn't give her a consistent yes, right? Like it was so many years of, "I can't, I'm not going to choose you."

• 1:14:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, Ross was in love with Rachel. I just, the whole time. I mean, then, you know, Emily got in the mix and Julie and that, but it's like, I just never saw the chemistry. I think it was the most bizarre pairing. And then you see Rachel date Joey and the chemistry was there and that's who should have ended up together. Like, I just could never get behind Ross.

• 1:14:21Rayna Greenberg?

  He just was like in love with her from the time she was like so young, right? They were like in high school.

• 1:14:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  It felt like it was just a trophy to him.

• 1:14:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes. Okay. I'm going to hit you with one. I don't know, I don't know that other people would think of this. Adam from Girls.

• 1:14:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, I was gonna ask you about girls because I was looking at a few lists and people said Desi. Wait, Adam was who?

• 1:14:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Adam Driver's name was Adam in the show.

• 1:14:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, that's right. Okay, right.

• 1:14:41Rayna Greenberg?

  He just, for the first like couple of years, he wouldn't, for the first season, he wouldn't commit to her. If she just showed up. I don't think she saw him outside of the home for like a year.

• 1:14:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  He was so annoying.

• 1:14:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes, it's hard to say like which one of them was more toxic.

• 1:14:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Team Adam.

• 1:14:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, people were saying Desi.

• 1:14:56Rayna Greenberg?

  And then he ends up dating her best friend in the world and breaking them up.

• 1:14:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  He was just an asshole.

• 1:15:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  These worst boyfriends to me are not the outright assholes.

• 1:15:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 1:15:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  They are the guys that we were supposed to think were decent guys and now the wool has been pulled back. What is it?

• 1:15:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  The wool's no longer over our eyes.

• 1:15:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Now I see.

• 1:15:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  And we're like, oh, gross.

• 1:15:18Rayna Greenberg?

  But Desi, Desi left his girlfriend, was cheating on, cheating on his girlfriend with Marnie for like a year before they got together. And he only left his girlfriend because she kind of found out, broke up with him.

• 1:15:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. All right. Two kind of deeper cuts from our childhood teenage years. Dawson.

• 1:15:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  And Seth from the OC.

• 1:15:37Rayna Greenberg?

  And people are saying he wasn't great, but I didn't really watch the OC.

• 1:15:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know. Well, I watched it live one time. Like I've watched, I watched it through when it was on air. I believe I was in college. Shashank is a huge OC guy and I showed him this, these memes. And he was like, no, he was the worst, actually. There was a Thanksgiving, he had like a summer and Rachel Bilson, he had another girl there. Like he was kind of a shitty boyfriend.

• 1:15:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Of the summer I turned pretty guys, which one do you think is worst?

• 1:16:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just like both.

• 1:16:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm just team Steven, Belly's brother. Just neither.

• 1:16:07Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh.

• 1:16:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I think he's a good boyfriend, actually.

• 1:16:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 1:16:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Steven and Taylor and not Jeremiah or Conrad. But people are saying more Jeremiah, but that was like not a hot take during the season. Always been talk about Nate from Devil Wears Prada.

• 1:16:23Rayna Greenberg?

  It was not terrible to me.

• 1:16:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know. I rewatched it recently because it was this whole shift. It was like, we didn't really have a problem with him back then. And then it was like this discussion about Nate being the real villain because he didn't really support her career. And then I watched it recently and I was like, he wasn't that bad. I think he was bummed when she was like a slave to her job.

• 1:16:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Also, like, she went to work for a publication and she talked shit on all those people, that publication, people that want to work there, these fashion girlies. And I think he was like, you don't take this seriously.

• 1:16:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  You've changed.

• 1:16:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Why would I take this seriously? Now you're asking me to take this seriously, but like, we have been on the same page this whole time, that this is dumb.

• 1:17:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And she started to care about these things she thought were shallow before and the way she was looking and presenting herself. And, I mean, yeah, she had a glow up, but I don't think Nate's the worst, I guess. I don't, at all.

• 1:17:11Rayna Greenberg?

  All right, I'm gonna throw a cartoon in here.

• 1:17:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:17:13Rayna Greenberg?

  And we could do Disney all day, but I think the worst Disney guy is Eric from The Little Mermaid. He liked her because she couldn't talk.

• 1:17:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  [laughing]

• 1:17:21Rayna Greenberg?

  She had no voice and he was like, that's my girl.

• 1:17:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, like, she was willing to give up her singing voice to be with him.

• 1:17:28Rayna Greenberg?

  And her whole family and everybody that she knew and he was like, do it.

• 1:17:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly. Yeah, Eric was pretty bad.

• 1:17:33Rayna Greenberg?

  He's the, he's my number one worst.

• 1:17:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, we, I told you, we're not gonna do any Aladdin slander on this podcast.

• 1:17:37Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I could do Beauty and Gaston, obviously that's inarguable.

• 1:17:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  [laughing]

• 1:17:42Rayna Greenberg?

  The Beast, also not great, also not great.

• 1:17:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Wait, what did he do?

• 1:17:47Rayna Greenberg?

  He was just gonna like, keep her there.

• 1:17:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's controlling, yeah.

• 1:17:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Locked her in a cage or something.

• 1:17:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  He was controlling for sure. Okay, some of the other ones in this article are hilarious. Aaron Samuels, obviously, from Mean Girls, but people said Michael Scott. This article's ridiculous. Am I still in the right article? Elon Musk?

• 1:18:03Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't know. I don't think this is the right article.

• 1:18:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  What are you, what are you reading? The 13 most embarrassing boyfriends in pop culture and the final one is Elon Musk. Elon Musk? I thought we were doing fictional.

• 1:18:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  But he's in there.

• 1:18:16Rayna Greenberg?

  How did Elon Musk get in here?

• 1:18:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, and I'm gonna just throw one in. Again, I thought we were doing fictional, but Blake from Selling Sunset, he just really takes the cake.

• 1:18:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, he's-

• 1:18:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  That is the most embarrassing boyfriend I've seen in a while.

• 1:18:29Rayna Greenberg?

  That guy could be a hundred billionaire, and that would be the most embarrassing person that you could ever date. Honestly, without the money, less embarrassing. A person that doesn't know where Boston is, has never tried a vegetable before, if you don't have access to vegetables in the internet, fine.

• 1:18:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:44Rayna Greenberg?

  But this guy is too rich to not know where broccoli in Boston is.

• 1:18:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, you've rejected the access you've been given in this world. Okay, but that is like on-screen cringing. So he's, he's my top.

• 1:18:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I'm with you. Number one.

• 1:18:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, well, I think that, that covers it, and you know, you guys do you. Whatever you want to do. You want to have a boyfriend? You want to get a prenup? You want to-

• 1:19:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Start a stand-up career?

• 1:19:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Start a stand-up.

• 1:19:10Rayna Greenberg?

  I can't recommend performing for our audience enough, if you can.

• 1:19:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, exactly. So we hope you guys enjoyed it, and we hope you have a great Thanksgiving.

• 1:19:18Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes, happy Thanksgiving. We are so thankful for you guys. We just love you. We hope you have safe travels and a calm, a calm holiday season with the family.

• 1:19:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 1:19:27Rayna Greenberg?

  We're here for you. Oh, Ashley, you can DM her your, your family drama.

• 1:19:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, if you guys have family drama and you're hiding out in your childhood bedroom, just give me the tea.

• 1:19:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 1:19:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  So, girlsgottaeat.com. You guys can get tickets to our New York holiday show at girlsgottaeat.com, girlsgottaeatpodcast on Instagram and TikTok. I am Ash Hess, Reina is reina.greenberg. Watch that space. And subscribe if you do. Share this episode with a friend, and we'll see you next Monday.

• 1:19:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Have a great holiday and a great weekend, guys.

• 1:19:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Bye.