Bitcoin, Trump Appointees, D.O.G.E., & America’s Pending Financial Chaos | The Tom Bilyeu Show

Today, Tom and Producer Drew dive deep into an array of thought-provoking topics that promise to keep you engaged from start to finish. Kicking things off, they discuss the highly controversial upcoming fight between boxing legend Mike Tyson and YouTube sensation Jake Paul, weighing in on the risks and the excitement surrounding this clash of generations. As the conversation unfolds, they switch gears to explore Drew's personal journey of career transformation, highlighting the importance of finding true satisfaction in one's pursuits. Tom also addresses some behind-the-scenes technical challenges and opens up discussions on pressing economic issues, from inflation to Bitcoin's potential impact on the global financial landscape. Political commentary takes center stage as they analyze recent election results, governmental appointments, and the potential influence of entrepreneurial minds like Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy in politics. Tom and Drew stress the need for unity, efficient resource management, and the sorting out of the polarity prevalent in today's political climate. With holiday stream possibilities, "Twitch's Santa Claus" proposals, and a sprinkle of personal anecdotes—like Tom’s disdain for candy corn and his affection for black licorice—this episode is a blend of serious contemplation and light-hearted banter. Join us as we navigate the complexities of today's society, from financial markets to mental health, always with an eye towards meaningful solutions and human flourishing. SHOWNOTES 09:20 Seek ways to unify for human flourishing. 15:44 Balanced budget, pro-business environment ensures prosperity. 20:08 Mental unwellness requires biological intervention and control. 23:36 Pursue meaningful work despite potential failure. 31:39 Trump's actions are moderate compared to Hitler's. 38:24 U. S. currency backed by gold, not Bitcoin. 44:02 Rising interest rates worsen federal debt crisis. 44:50 US debt, spending challenges threaten dollar stability. 52:30 Voting based on past economic improvement hopes. 57:11 Everyone can improve; nobody excels universally. 01:02:32 Virtual environment blurs line between physical, digital. 01:06:34 Fearful but excited about Tyson's potential dominance. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tom Bilyeu?

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• 0:45Tom Bilyeu?

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• 1:07Speaker 01

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• 1:37Tom Bilyeu?

  We've got TDS on the left. We've got schadenfreude on the right. We've got economic euphoria, something absolutely insane happening with Bitcoin. People on the left promising to hide undocumented people in their attic. And some pretty rough stuff with people's negative reaction to the Trump election. And joining me today is my producer Drew. Drew, what you read on this moment, man?

• 2:00Speaker 02

  What's up, Tom? It's been a week. It has been a week. People have been excited. I have seen too many clips of meltdowns. I have seen people cheering. It's like have the country think they won the Super Bowl. And I'm like, hey, guys, he hasn't been in office yet. He hasn't done a single policy. Let's just take it, take a step back. I get you're excited, but I was one of those people walking the streets when Obama was elected. So I can't be a hypocrite. So how you feeling?

• 2:21Tom Bilyeu?

  I am very middle of the road. I try to at all times be sanguine. So to your point, I I'm glad that he got elected. I think that there's a lot of work to be done. I think that it is going to be exceedingly messy. I think people are going to be fighting against this the whole way. The thing that freaks me out right now, when I look at the reactions that people are having is very much a tenor of, I want to prove the world that I was right. And whether you're on the left or the right, people just want to be right. And that drives me crazy. You ought to, and I use that in the moral way, you ought to look for the thing that leads you towards the desirable outcome. And if that is human flourishing for all of

• 3:06Tom Bilyeu?

  us here in America, and hopefully as many people around the world as humanly possible, you should be looking for the thing that actually leads you there by a metric that you can actually judge. And right now, what I see is people either crying about the fact that their side lost, and you know, again, orange man bad, and they think that he's Hitler, or it's this big dunk fest of like, ah, you guys are a bunch of morons, you were leading the country in the wrong direction. And it's like, the reality that we could end up in a civil war did not go away because Trump got elected. So I think people have to be extremely desirous of finding a way for us all to reconnect. And if that isn't the vibe, we're going to have a problem. And right now, it's very much not the vibe.

• 3:46Speaker 02

  All right. So Trump has now already started. He's assembled his team. Tulsi Gabbard is now the director of national intelligence. She will be running all 18 of the spy agencies. Did you know there was 18 spy agencies?

• 3:57Tom Bilyeu?

  I did not. That's a lot.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  Elon and Vivek are now running up the Department of Government Efficiency. DOGE officially has a department. RFK still missing from the headlines, but I seen your tweet with Elizabeth Warren, you already have kind of a take on the Department of Government Efficiency. What do you think of these appointments so far, and how Trump is assembling his government?

• 4:17Tom Bilyeu?

  I could not be more excited about Elon and Vivek working together. Now, I obviously am wildly biased towards entrepreneurs, but that's from somebody that's had to do it. And I'm not a natural born entrepreneur, so I had to learn to do all These things. So I know what it takes to become good at this thing. And what you have to do, one of the things that an entrepreneur has to get good at is capital allocation. You have to be efficient with your, with where you deploy money, where you deploy human resources. And so I think you have two of the greatest living entrepreneurs. Right now Elon is the greatest entrepreneur bar none. And when I see people respond negatively to that, that's where I get crazy.

• 5:02Tom Bilyeu?

  When you look at how difficult what those two guys have done individually, you roll them up together. It is absolutely absurd, like anybody, you can dislike them, that's fine. But to call into question what they've achieved is crazy. And if you take the lens of, I know what it takes to be that efficient with humans, that efficient with capital, to look at things from an engineering perspective. Those are the people that you want focused on the government. And so my response to that tweet was Elizabeth Warren had said, oh, government efficiency. This is crazy. It's two people doing the job of one person. It's two people doing the job of God knows how many people it would take to go through every line item and make a decision about it. It's, it's literal lunacy to look at that.

• 5:47Tom Bilyeu?

  In fact, it's not lunacy. It is partisan hackery. It is somebody who wants to take control of the frame of reference of what's happening here. To tell people, okay, I may not be able to control what you're looking at, but I want to control what you see. And what I want you to see is that this is the job of one person, two people are doing it. It's already inefficient from the jump. So no matter what they do, this is going to be bad. Instead of saying, look, I think we can all agree that no organization, literally none, is operating at hunt at a hundred percent efficiency. So can we get incredible minds to look at this problem and make suggestions? It's not like Elon and Vivek go in there and just start making changes. That's not how this is going to work. They're going to make recommendations. So they're going to go in and make things transparent, which any Drew,

• 6:31Tom Bilyeu?

  anyone that wants things to be hidden behind something, that is somebody that's trying to control the narrative. They are not trying to make sure that everybody can see what's happening in plain sight. And one of the first promises that they're making is they're just going to make this stuff transparent. Now, look. I think Elon's right. It's gonna be devastating when you see some of the wasteful spending, but it's also gonna be kinda hilarious. Like when you see like the way

• 6:57Speaker 02

  The 9,000 for a screw, the 10,000 for a desk.

• 7:00Tom Bilyeu?

  It's, it's gonna be crazy. So my whole thing is, what I want people to be able to do is understand when somebody makes a comment like that, this is two people doing the job of one, this is already inefficient, understand why they're doing that. They want their side to win. They do not care about a positive outcome. If they did, they would be thinking, it's not about whether my side is the one that comes up with the right answer. It's about a KPI. What is the metric by which we are going to judge?

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Can you break down KPI? Cause a lot of people are asking.

• 7:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, sorry. I keep saying that. And I should also say, by the way, for people who think that I'm talking over my guest, this is Drew, the producer, who sets me up to talk about these things. I promise this, this is the, the format of the show. And a KPI is a key performance indicator. So you need something that says this thing is going well. And in a business, you're trying to pull the scales off of your own eyes. You're trying to find out, are we actually doing the things that are gonna make it possible for me to serve my customer and serve my employees? Now, this is one of the things that really bothers me about, oh, companies are evil. I do not know many entrepreneurs who have a first thought other than, I wanna make sure

• 8:12Tom Bilyeu?

  that I take care of my employees. Like you go to bed, like wanting to make sure that you can take care of the families of all the people that are working for you. You feel this tremendous sense of obligation. And you know that rule number one is you have to protect the organism. And that's where sometimes you have to let people go. But even Elon is not gonna be gleeful about letting people go that are doing a good job. And If people understand that we need to want that from the government, we need to want the government to serve the people. We want to take care of the people inside of the government. But at the same time, we have to think of the organism as a whole right now. And for the organism to continue to thrive,

• 8:54Tom Bilyeu?

  we have to recognize that we are Thelma and Louise right now. Our foot jammed down on the accelerator and we are rushing towards a cliff. And so when you ask about what KPI should we be paying attention to? To me, this is very simple. Do you have a balanced budget? Are you taking in more in tax revenue than you are spending? And are you creating a pro-business environment? Because it is businesses that the current economy worldwide is based on. And if you do not have those companies, for all of the frustrations that one can rightfully have with capitalism, if you don't have those companies, then you have nothing.

• 9:37Tom Bilyeu?

  Like the, the, all of the things that we see from air conditioning units to cars, to satellites, all of that stuff, the, all the modern conveniences that we have have all been born out of a business. And so if people say, I don't need my team to win. I need us to move towards this KPI. I care a lot more about the average American feeling like their child's life is going to be better than theirs. Like if you just want to round it to something, it's that. And I think that's really what the vote for Trump this time was. That, hey, I think getting him in office is going to be better for my kids, that their life will be better than mine.

• 10:17Tom Bilyeu?

  And if we can document that KPI, like turn that into a number, then we can steer towards it. But right now, that isn't the goal. The goal is my team good, your team bad.

• 10:29Speaker 02

  And that's a great metric to kind of put it because I think a lot of times we get caught up in political speak of the unemployment is down, groceries are this, grass prices, and we're kind of using these artificial numbers on the timeline, but we're not actually thinking about the sentiment of actual Americans every day, day to day. In the 90s, I had one job, I could buy a house, I could have three kids. In 2020, I have two jobs and I Uber on the weekends and I'm still trying to figure out how to get out of it. And although unemployment has had its lowest in history and the economy is the highest stock market it has ever been, there are still Americans who are crying in their cars on TikTok. We see it every day. They're not feel like they're getting ahead. And that brings me to our What If Alt His tweet, which I did, I do have to kind of give the disclaimer. I looked through the WHO numbers.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  This is from What If Alt His, shout out to him, friend of the show. Apparently 3,000 people have taken their lives due to the election. 3,000 people have committed suicide due to the election. Again, that number was fact checked and it was brought down to in the 1500s and they can't actually say it was directly related to Trump. But, but, but, I will have to shout out the 4B movement, which is the women that you see shaving their head, vowing abstinence, saying they're divorcing their husbands. They're making a societal move because of the results of this election. And we even had one guy do a murder-suicide, killed four of his kids, Oh! Three of his kids and his wife, and he went on an anti-Trump raid the day before the election. So it was one of these things that people are actually, whether they're excited that their

• 11:55Speaker 02

  new person is in, or they're so devastated that they're going to a point of murder and suicide, people are hurting. So what do you say to the people that are in this middle emotional storm where their team might have won and they're excited and they're dunking on people and they're making fun of other people's misery? Or on the other side where people are so sad, they're literally thinking about taking their alliance? I have seen you literally talk somebody off a ledge mid-stream. So how do you talk to those people who are really struggling in this moment?

• 12:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so, big question. So first, if I'm trying to talk somebody away from a move like that, I'm immediately going to go to you're having a biological experience. The reason that I want to ground them in that is, we all live inside the matrix. The matrix is our own brain. So even if this really is real world, and it's not matrix code, the analogy of the matrix is perfect for the reality of your brain. So your brain, you're only able to perceive 0.0035% of the electromagnetic spectrum, which means your brain is filling in a lot of gaps. It's making you believe that you see the whole picture, but you really don't. There's a dime-sized hole in your field of vision, all that. So, I get somebody

• 13:07Tom Bilyeu?

  to understand, your brain is tricking you. Now, most of the time, it's tricking you for your benefit. But right now, your brain is tricking you to the negative, and it's making you believe that you will never be happy again. And if you truly were never going to be happy again, I understand why somebody would take their own life. Nobody wants to live in that misery. So, you have to get them to anchor on that first. And I want people to understand that when you're in that state, you are quite literally mentally unwell. And just as, if you had a knee problem, you would go get the knee problem fixed at a biological level, you want to get that under control from a biological standpoint. Now, hopefully, there are interventions that you can do that stop shy of drugs. But hey,

• 13:47Tom Bilyeu?

  if that's where we gotta go, to rebalance, to get equilibrium, then let's go there. So, that's legitimately where I start. Now, for somebody that's really deeply distressed about this, just keep in mind that, more or less, no matter who gets into office, you still control your destiny. I think there's a reason to be thoughtful about who you put in office. I cared very much about who won this election. But I also know not to trust myself in that. I have a worldview. I'm going to stand up for what I believe. I'm going to say what I believe. But if somebody said, hey, Tom, here's a magic wand. And if you wave this magic wand, everyone will do what you tell them to do.

• 14:30Tom Bilyeu?

  I would say that would be the worst thing I can imagine for ensuring that human civilization thrives moving forward, because the reality is everybody's blind to something. And the very thing I want is friction between ideas. So, hey, person that is struggling, just know that the friction between the ideas is actually where the magic happens. You want a dynamic tension between both sides. And if you can understand, you still control your destiny. It's probably good that we have this friction. The other side won right now. You do want to ask yourself, why? Is there something that you're missing? What is it that they see? Steel manning the other side, making a case for them, I think is really compelling to better understand your own position about why you think what you think. Okay, when you do that, now you're going to get a really clear sense of what you believe,

• 15:15Tom Bilyeu?

  because you really understand the other side. Okay, I really believe this thing. Well, what predictions does your hypothesis make? And can we measure it? So now it's like, you don't have to worry about railing against the other team. You can start focusing on policies and outcomes. Policies and outcomes. Okay, so what's the policy? What's the outcome that they're predicting from this? And then did that policy yield that outcome? Yes or no? If yes, does it? And it's a positive thing. It's the thing you wanted. Do you care that it didn't come from your side? And if you care that it didn't come from your side, now you've got your finger on, that's, that's a you problem. Because now you're saying, I actually don't care about the outcome. I care about it being my team that came up with this idea. Now dude, most people live there. So this really is where most people are stuck.

• 16:00Tom Bilyeu?

  They just need it to be their idea. They just need it to be their team, because they are driven by invisible goals, invisible markers of self-esteem, that they've never even pulled into their conscious mind. And so they're going to steer by, did people do my idea? Did they validate me? Did my team win? Am I validated because I was on the right team? Okay, that's where a lot of people are stuck. But going back to, you can't control the outcome of an election. You can cast your vote. But what you can control is how you respond to it. You can control what you do. I built a billion dollar company in the Great Recession.

• 16:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, of course, everybody told us that we were crazy. We were leaving software, which was like, that's how you get rich. We were leaving software to go into manufacturing, which people were like, you're out of your mind. But we had an outcome in mind. We wanted to end metabolic disease. That felt worth pursuing, even if we failed, right? You know my question, if I've never said it to the audience before. The right question to ask yourself in a turbulent moment like this is, what would I do and love every day? Even if I were failing? Go pursue that thing, right? So no matter who's president, you're going to be able to pursue that thing that you really believe in. And so if you can get people to orient around the things that they control, that they can contribute to other people, and make other people's lives better, that they can actually measure KPIs and go, this is the thing that I care about.

• 17:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Are we actually moving towards that? And if we're not, cool, then you talk about that. And you say, these policies are not moving us towards human flourishing, or whatever their thing is. And it becomes a call and response game. This is what, one, this is where it's taking us. This is what I want. This is how I think we get there. And you can argue over those things. And it becomes the friction that I was saying we should want, where it's like, this is where they're going, but this is what I think they should be doing. If you can orient people around that package, they're going to be, they're going to feel positive, because they'll feel like they've got enough that they can control, that they can keep moving forward. They've got a metric by which they can judge success. And it doesn't matter what team they're on, because we all just want to get to the same place. Hold tight, we're going to take a quick break.

• 18:04Tom Bilyeu?

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• 18:45Tom Bilyeu?

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• 19:30Tom Bilyeu?

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• 20:14Tom Bilyeu?

  We're back, let's dive right in.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  I love that. It reminds me of a saying that one of my old managers gave me that E plus R equals O. You can't control the E, which is the event. You can't control the O, which is the outcome, but you can control the R, which is your response. So you should always kind of ground your response, no matter what events or outcomes happened. Which bring me to a tangent. I have seen a lot of discourse about people saying they're cutting off family members and not going home for the holidays because of this election. Please, please, please, I'll say these in all three cameras. Donald Trump, Kamala, whatever side you want, I promise you, if you are out on the street, they won't take you in, but your family may. So, please don't cut off your family because you think somebody that lives 3,000 miles away, that lives in a big white house is on your side. That's just my other tangent. We have this Piers Morgan clip,

• 20:59Speaker 02

  which shows how some people are reacting to Trump and how some people are deciding to fight back. Could we cue that YouTube one up?

• 21:05Speaker 03

  I've got news for our friends at the Ball Walk Podcast. That strategy will not include indulging this bizarre Anne Frank fantasy.

• 21:13Speaker 04

  Mobilize the resistance, and I think it will be the resistance. I'm prepared to put undocumented people in my attic.

• 21:26Speaker 02

  I call BS on that. I'm sorry. As a son of immigrants, and I have some illegal cousins that are roaming this country right now, I don't even want them in my attic, let alone a stranger from Piers Morgan is gonna happily open their doors to them. I call BS in virtue signaling. How do you feel about this?

• 21:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so, one, I really tried to find that clip that he's pulling that from, because I want to see the full context. So, just because it drives me crazy when people pull stuff out of context. Reacting to the part that I can see, it is absurd in, not that he would take them in, because from his worldview, like, if you really believe Trump is Hitler, that this is that moment, that you told yourself, Drew, I would be the one that took Anne Frank in. He's like, hey, I've got a chance to prove it, and maybe he really will. The way that it would play out, though, is all of a sudden, he'd realize, oh, there's no SS at my door. I don't need to hide this person. There is a process that

• 22:28Tom Bilyeu?

  people go through. They came into the country illegally. Donald Trump's ICE is going through this procedure, this policy, and you can debate that policy, you can push back on that, but putting people in your house is, one, not going to solve the problem, and, two, I think people are very quickly going to realize that this is, the worldview that they have concocted, that this is a moment that has to be resisted massively, it isn't accurate, that there's no point at which the rubber meets the road on this. Now, the interesting thing is...

• 23:07Tom Bilyeu?

  It is possible that the world he wants to live in is one where there are no borders whatsoever, that people can flood into the country as they should, that we have a moral obligation to welcome those people in.

• 23:24Tom Bilyeu?

  In which case, he really is right. And so with that, I'm just, I become baffled because I think people have to build their worldview. One, they have to understand that their worldview is constructed, that it's based on a set of beliefs and values. And so those beliefs and values make predictions and you can run his predictions. So he has a prediction. For, for that to make sense, he must believe the following: you have a moral obligation to welcome anybody in from wherever, for whatever reason, and just let them into the country. And history will show you that if people don't assimilate, the culture collapses. And at the risk of being a cliche and talking about the fall of the Roman Empire,

• 24:06Tom Bilyeu?

  you, you don't have to look very far to realize that what keeps a country going is not the letter of the law. It's the fact that people believe in the letter of the law. And so to look at what America has accomplished, to become the most prosperous, to become the most equal nation on planet Earth, and to think, oh, the, the culture that gave birth to this is so rotten that we should let it be absolutely obliterated, to me, just doesn't make any sense. It's like Matt Ridley wrote a book called The Rational Optimist. He said, "You cannot look backwards at whatever 50,000 years of forward progress and go, tomorrow's going to be worse." And that was always a very anchoring idea for me, that you can't look at the history of this nation,

• 24:49Tom Bilyeu?

  which went from slavery to having a black president and go, oh, there's something so corrupt about this culture that it, it doesn't lead anywhere good, right? We started in a horrific place. Genocide to get the country, followed by slavery, but yet there was ideals that were put in place that led us now to the point that we're at. And to look at all of that and go, oh, this is going to end somewhere bad, I think doesn't make any sense. Now, if we had four years of Donald Trump literally being Hitler, then okay. But you don't. You have him governing as a moderate.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  What does that mean, governing as a moderate? Because I think a lot of people, they see Trump with those Hitler headlines. They watch the same outlets that call Trump Hitler, that compares all his policies to Hitler-esque. I'm thinking of the Muslim ban, I'm thinking of the eight countries that were on that list that they didn't want people in. And they do see, to your point, a through line of, he's Hitlerite. So what do you mean that he governs as a moderate?

• 25:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so first, I think we have to define what Hitler actually did. The things that Hitler did were so insane. So first of all, he had what were known as the brown shirts. And they went around and literally beat people up and stopped people from organizing and opposing their thing. So actual, just literal thugs roaming the streets. They did Kristallnacht, which was go around and basically smash every Jewish-owned thing that you can imagine. They burned down, I forget the name of the building that they burned down, but they tried to blame it on the... In fact, I think it was burning that building down, and this is where I'm gonna need What If Alt-His to fact-check me here. But they burn a building down, blame it on the opposition, and I think that's what triggered Kristallnacht.

• 26:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Was they used that as the excuse to go in and smash everything, because they're like, "Look what they did." I mean, and then, obviously, putting the Jews in ghettos and the gypsies, and then exterminating them. I mean, it's just, come on. Donald Trump, compared to that, I think we can agree, is extremely moderate. Extremely moderate. So saying that we're going to restrict the people coming into the country, that we're gonna put bans from different countries coming in, you may not like it, but compared to taking your own citizens, stripping them of everything, robbing them of all their belongings, blaming them for the woes of your country, which had nothing to do with them whatsoever, and had everything to do with losing World War I.

• 27:18Tom Bilyeu?

  So when you start getting into the nitty-gritty of what Hitler did, and you start watering that down by comparing it to somebody who went through the democratic process, and look, everybody's gonna zoom in on January 6th, happy to have that conversation, but to keep scope from getting crazy...

• 27:42Tom Bilyeu?

  Use the democratic process, would talk very bombastically, but was not passing insane laws. When you look even at the border, when Trump exited and Biden came in, they made changes that were, I would say, far more radical than Trump wanting to build a wall. Like wanting to stop people from coming in feels way less radical to me than just letting anybody and everybody flood in. And so if people want to point out the policies that he did that they think are truly Hitlerian, not rhetoric, actual policies that he put in place that are truly Hitlerian, I'm happy to go one by one.

• 28:22Tom Bilyeu?

  But yeah, he was fiscally on par with everybody else, terrible in money printing, nothing crazy, some tax breaks, nothing crazy.

• 28:33Tom Bilyeu?

  Again, no demonizing in the law of any group inside the country. So it's just when you start to do a one for one comparison with what Hitler did, like it is orders of magnitude different. And that's where like my ability to track what people are even thinking when they say that stuff. The only claim they could make where I wouldn't think, what the hell? Is it's a slippery slope. This is the first step on a very long road, but it's the first step. That you can sort of debate, but that he actually did things that are even remotely Hitlerian is insane.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Copy that. Swinging the pendulum to the other side. I know my crypto bros are happy. I shouted you guys out on the last episode and Bitcoin has only went up. The S and P hit a new high at 6,000. What the hell is going on with the markets, huh?

• 29:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so we are having a euphoric moment where the markets were pricing in for a while that they thought Trump was going to come into office. On crypto, I think it's they know that he's going to bring in a very pro crypto regulatory body. We've seen in the Senate, the most pro crypto Senate we've had, arguably, not arguably, forever. It is the most pro crypto. So seeing that on the crypto side, people are like, okay, all the. Regulatory uncertainty that we had is gone. We're pricing in some of our optimism about where we think this is going to go. How many more people are going to start flooding in now that you can't point to the boogeyman specter of well, the government is going to clamp down on this.

• 30:06Tom Bilyeu?

  But also, if I'm completely honest, I think they're expecting Donald Trump. This is again specifically Bitcoin and it has implications in the stock market, but we'll get to that in a second. I think they know he's going to print money. And when you're printing money, Bitcoin becomes the safe haven. If they really believed that Trump was going to get the budget balanced and was going to do no money printing, I don't think you would see this crazy run on Bitcoin. I think it would go up still because people feel better about. I think there is a certain type of person, myself included, who would rather be in Bitcoin than gold, but it's effectively the same thing. And so you would see it go up, but not to the rate that you're seeing right now. I think that's a combination of cool.

• 30:48Tom Bilyeu?

  We're going to have a great regulatory environment for crypto and he's going to keep doing foolish things economically. And so this is going to be wonderful. And so you get that perfect storm. I think on the stock market side, you have a slightly different thing happening, which is hey, he's going to start removing a lot of these regulations. So you have the Gulliver's travel thing of you're a giant, the giant US economy, but all these regulatory bodies are making it harder and harder to do business. We were moving in the wrong direction. You had Kamala Harris promising all of this money that they were going to give out to everybody, which is inherently inflationary and more regulatory bodies, talking about top down pricing controls. I mean legitimately for entrepreneurs, I don't think people understood how apocalyptic her talk was. Of course, we understood a lot of it wasn't going to be able to go through,

• 31:32Tom Bilyeu?

  but it showed you what the impulse was that she had. It was just like every impulse she had was wrong. So people are really excited about that. But also on the economic, on the stock market side, you've got a couple of things going on. You've got the same thing going on in the Bitcoin side. It's going to print money like crazy. And so people are going to flood into the market because they have to protect themselves from inflation. But you also have, if we're in a position where he's cutting back on regulation, he's cutting back on taxes, businesses are really going to start to invest. And if businesses start investing and he's doing tariffs and he's bringing jobs back, now we've got a real strength in the US stock market. So I think.

• 32:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Some of what you see, this is obviously multifactorial, but some of what you see there is people that were like, "Hey, I'm sort of hedging against where I think the US economy might be going and I'm going out into places like China." China's now having a ton of trouble. He's doing a lot of signaling that he's gonna make the dollar stronger, that he's gonna make, um, the, he's gonna take a lot of the regulatory burden off, and that they believe he's still gonna be money printing. It's like every signal that you could have on the positive and the negative side says, "Get into the stock market, get into Bitcoin specifically, more than crypto in general." And so you're just seeing that, any pro-business sentiment is just a spark for people to say, "Okay, let's, let's invest."

• 32:57Speaker 02

  What do you think about the proposal? I think Michael Saylor threw this out about a Bitcoin strategic reserve, the US government kind of outing like a block of Bitcoin.

• 33:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Just like, I would love to see them have a currency that is backed by gold. I would love to see them either go all the way to backing the currency with gold. If I'm really honest, I'd rather see him back it with gold. I think even though I've got way more of my own personal money tied up in that, the government should be focused on things that are a little more tried and true, if you're gonna tie the, um, the dollar to it. But having the US at a minimum not sell the crypto that they've confiscated, I think would be a brilliant idea. Because if it really does continue to go up, there are people that, I mean, there are crazy predictions out there. But even if it just doubled from now, hey, that's a great windfall.

• 33:48Tom Bilyeu?

  But if it really does go up to the million, 2.3, 2.5 million that you see a lot of credible voices claim, I mean, Jesus, man, that would be such a win for any government that's holding Bitcoin. Uh, but I want to be very clear, right now Bitcoin is extremely volatile. And I think if the US government were to spend a ton of money putting it on the balance sheet, there would be so much backlash from the taxpaying public. I think it'd be pretty nightmarish. So I don't know that I would advise Trump to do that at this point. But not selling what they already have, I think would be very shrewd.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  We shall see, we shall see. I'm curious to see what the markets actually do, what actually happens.

• 34:29Tom Bilyeu?

  We'll be back in a moment.

• 34:32Tom Bilyeu?

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• 35:15Tom Bilyeu?

  My link gets you an exclusive 30 days free instead of the usual 14-day trial. There's no credit card payment needed. Just head to pipedrive.com/impact to get started. Again, that's pipedrive.com/impact and you can be up and running in minutes. All right, let's pick up where we left off.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  We have this clip from the All In Podcast that kind of talked about what we see how Friedberg and Sacks see the future of the economy going. Could we play that?

• 35:46Speaker 05

  And by the way, as these numbers climb, the cost to borrow for the federal government climbs. So the new bonds, we have to reissue a good percent, I think nearly $10 trillion, I think of our debt, has to be reissued in the next year. That's going to get reissued now at this higher rate. And that higher rate means that the annual expense just to pay the interest on the existing debt is now climbing at a faster rate. And that means you've got to issue more debt to pay for your interest on your current debt.

• 36:13Speaker 06

  It's quite paradoxical that the Fed sets that rate, right?

• 36:16Speaker 05

  Well, this becomes the compounding problem when your debt to GDP reaches a certain level and you don't reduce federal spending fast enough. It becomes a compounding problem you cannot get away from. And this has been the beginning of the cataclysmic economic collapse of every great empire in the last 500 years. I know I've said this, you guys can joke about it all day long, but this is how it starts. It starts at a point where you're arithmetically not able to get out of your debt spiral.

• 36:42Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so this is the thing that scares me to death. The fact that even the guys in the All In Podcast make fun of David Freberg for saying this. I want to be very clear about what he just said. Over the last 500 years, every single reserve currency, every empire, has fallen in the same way. They all take on too much debt and they get to the point where they can no longer make the interest payments on the debt and they lose their status as a reserve currency. It happens over and over and over in an incredibly hilariously predictable fashion. And because it happens so slowly, people will make fun of the people that say it over and over and over, that this is where we're headed.

• 37:26Tom Bilyeu?

  And it is truly a game of musical chairs. And for anybody out there that's never played musical chairs, it goes like this. You have one fewer chair than you have person. And when the music stops, everyone's just walking in a circle around the chairs. And when the music stops, you have to get the chair, knowing one person's going to get iced out. Now, I want you to imagine, there are no chairs and you're walking in a circle and when the music stops, you all fucking fall down. See, you're even laughing now. It's like, and am I saying it somewhat tongue in cheek? Kind of, but the reality is everyone falls down. And, oh my God. And it's like, boys and girls, if you're laughing because you don't think it will happen in your lifetime, guess what, fuckface? It's going to happen to your kids.

• 38:08Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, I don't even have kids and I'm worried about other people's kids. You don't escape it. The only thing you can do is get fiscally responsible. And what are people doing instead? They're laughing at people who keep pointing out, you can't keep doing this because you can keep doing it for a while. And because you can do it for a while, everybody's like, I don't give a fuck, it's going to happen to somebody else. That is so cynical, man. And then the second worst answer, it's better than that one, the second worst answer is go buy crypto. Guess what? Your average person is terrified to go buy crypto and for good reason.

• 38:50Tom Bilyeu?

  It's not easy and for anybody that tells you that it is, is a liar. And so I'm just like, good Lord, I don't understand how people can be that jaded that because they see a way out. They're just fine that everybody else is going to get nuked. Stop overspending. Stop overspending. You have to stop overspending. You have to stop stealing people's money through inflation. You have to stop overspending. You have to.

• 39:15Tom Bilyeu?

  How much do people freak out over healthcare for everybody?

• 39:21Speaker 02

  They freak out.

• 39:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay. Now I want you to imagine something far worse, which is you're going to let people lose all the money that they've saved. In fact, you've already trained them not to save any money. It's madness. And so you get into this death loop where people are not going to be able to retire because they have no money. You've got people working three jobs. You've got, get, guess what stat? Guess what stat brings down the life expectancy of this great nation of ours?

• 39:53Speaker 02

  GDP?

• 39:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Deaths of despair of men.

• 39:58Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, because we are disenfranchising people as fast as we can by putting them in a situation where you can no longer just be a plumber and make a decent living and make things work because inflation is happening so fast that you have to gamble to keep up with it. And the fact that, look, I love all my Bitcoin bros. I love you guys, but that is a shitty answer to tell people. Just get into Bitcoin. Dude, my mom is not going to fucking buy Bitcoin. So, and yes, I will take care of my mother, obviously, but how many people out there have moms? No one's looking after them. It's bananas, dude. The reason that this happens is because it is so complicated. That everybody just thinks, well, it's not going to happen right now.

• 40:43Tom Bilyeu?

  And because it's not going to happen right now, I'm going to make fun of the guy that won't stop saying that it's going to happen eventually. Dude, that's so gnarly. That view on life is so dark and sinister, I can't be a part of it.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  Is there anything that the average guy can do? Because to your point, going into the stock market, gambling, throwing my life savings into crypto, risky, I'm looking at Great Britain, they lost their status, but I feel like they're doing good now. Is there a way we can kind of hide from this blowback? Or do you think everybody's getting it? It's going to be like Greece, I think is the last big one. Like, you're just going to get screwed and we're just going to have to deal with a period of hard times.

• 41:24Tom Bilyeu?

  History says people will not change until there is enough suffering for them to be so profoundly unhappy that they'll do anything, including except that they're financially obliterated because they they want the killing to stop. And that's, this always ends in, not always. The majority of the time, it ends in bloodshed so catastrophically that people just say, yeah, fine, whatever. People owe me money, I don't care anymore. Zero me out, I'll start over, it's fine. I'm just too fatigued. Or just so many young men die that they're just like, well, there's nobody left to complain about it. That's literally how this plays out over and over and over and over.

• 42:10Tom Bilyeu?

  It need not. It need not. That's the thing that drives me crazy. But we are up against the architecture of the human mind. And the architecture of the human mind is, these are very complicated problems. It's easy to push it off into the future, not deal with it today. And we will only elect politicians that we think will make our lives better right now in this moment.

• 42:36Tom Bilyeu?

  But I think in many ways, the vote for Trump was a vote for somebody they think will do something about it. Now, I don't have any faith that Trump won't print a mega shit ton of money. So I think he's gonna do a lot on the, there, there are two ways to balance your budget. Make more money, spend less. He's not gonna do, I think, enough on the spend. He'll, in terms of government efficiency, I think he's gonna do a lot. But that, it's, it's government entitlements. That's what's fucking us up. It's, it's healthcare, it's not getting people to eat right, like all that, oh god, won't derail on that.

• 43:12Tom Bilyeu?

  That's way number one, spend less money. I don't think he's gonna be great there.

• 43:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Make more money, I think he's gonna be great. And I think that's where people voted. And they said, hey, when you were in office last time, things got a little better for me. So I'm hoping if I put you back in office, things are gonna get a lot better. And that's the, the jubilant moment that we're in right now, is people are forgetting that hockey stick that is the debt. And they're just thinking, ah, he's gonna at least help us make more money. And he's gonna help us secure the border. And he's gonna make us a badass on the world stage again. Which is something we've never talked about, but probably should. So

• 43:54Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm conflicted. I voted for him because I think he's gonna make us more prosperous in terms of we will make more money. We will be more innovative.

• 44:05Tom Bilyeu?

  I think he's gonna be trash on spending money because I think people will vote out the Republican Party if he cuts back on entitlements, which is the thing that's killing us.

• 44:17Speaker 02

  Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I did not vote for Trump, but I'm hoping he does something good because I'm stuck with him for the next four years.

• 44:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Brother, at least praise Jesus that that's your take. Is like, look, if the roles were reversed and Kamala Harris won, or third party candidate, I don't know who you voted for.

• 44:36Tom Bilyeu?

  But first of all, I love and respect you regardless of who you voted for. Yay, as it should be. And if your team had won, I'd be like, yeah, word. Like, how do we help? How do we help? How do we either give them a view on something they might not have otherwise had? And hope that they make good on that, they do something positive? Or, hey, fingers crossed, maybe I was just wrong. And they're gonna lead us somewhere awesome. Well, that isn't a universally held view. But it's the only one that makes any sense to me.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  One thing we do have in common, we accepted the results of the election. I can't say the same for some TikTokers and ex-users. There is now a hypothesis that Starlink was used to hack different voting machines? I just think that it's amazing that four years ago, we all decided that we should accept the results of the election. And now, in this present moment, when one side didn't win, and now the same people are using the same rhetoric to say the same thing. The voting machines were hacked, and now we didn't get our way. And in 2020, it was the Dominion voting machines. And in 2024, it's Starlink was used to hack the Dominion voting machines. I don't know if you've seen some of these stories, but it's kind of crazy. What's your take on it?

• 45:48Tom Bilyeu?

  My take is, humans gonna human. So this was the most predictable reaction ever. I think everybody knows Trump would have thrown a fit if he hadn't won.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  True.

• 45:59Tom Bilyeu?

  And I also think we can all agree that if Trump had lost, he would have thrown a way bigger fit than the left is throwing now. And so, credit where credit is due. Despite the fact that you're gonna see that, despite the fact that it may gain traction and people really might start ratcheting things up.

• 46:18Tom Bilyeu?

  As far as I can tell, Kamala Harris is gonna do a peaceful transfer of power that we would envy from 2020, because that was a shitshow.

• 46:30Tom Bilyeu?

  But yeah, people are just like that. They legitimately are so trapped inside of their own worldview that they cannot fathom that the world just views things differently than they do. So, uh, this, we have this thing called dots inside of our company where we can all give each other dots. Now I'll be the first to admit that we don't give each other enough critical dots, but setting that aside for a second. Um, the idea behind a critical dot is that, oh, I didn't realize people felt that way about me. Whoa, that's weird. Now, if one person says that, let's say that I have a positive view of myself on something, uh, and somebody says you're bad at that. Initially, I'm going to be like, oh, that's weird. I'm really good at that. So the fact that they think I'm bad, that's

• 47:13Tom Bilyeu?

  weird. The second time it comes in, I'm like, huh, that's interesting. The third time it comes in, I'm like, this is officially a pattern. And so now it is entirely possible that I have the wrong view of myself. Now, the reason I'm so hungry to update my view of myself is whatever's true is true. If I really am bad at that thing, then now I've got an opportunity to improve that I did not have previously because you cannot fill a cup that is already full. So if I believe I'm good at this thing, I'm not going to listen to you and you try to give me advice. I'm like, I'm already good at that. But if I'm open to, ooh, maybe I'm either not as good as I could be, or maybe I'm just full stop, not good. And now that I know that, now I can seek instruction. Now I can practice.

• 47:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Now I can get better. But people's ego is built around being right. And that's what you're witnessing now. And this is my own take on the dumb voter problem. I really do think that there are some people that are too dumb to navigate the world well. Uh, but the problem is I don't know that I'm not one of them. And so because I'm like, and by the way, it's going to be issue by issue. Like there are plenty of people that are brilliant in one area and absolutely radically stupid in another area. And so it's like, okay, well, if, if I'm A range of really good to really bad on a thousand different line items that matter. Now it's like, you can't even like blanket say I'm good at this, that, or the other.

• 48:33Tom Bilyeu?

  So if you could just get people to lower their defenses in terms of their ego, to go, I bet I could improve on everything and be open to that. Not so open, your mind falls out. You have to have a coherent sense of yourself, but looking for ways to get better and improve, we'd be in great shape. I know some people are never going to be able to do that. I just don't believe I should, or anybody should, be able to have dominion over dumb people.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  Full stop. All right, you ready for the lightning round?

• 49:05Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm ready.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  Let's do it. If you had a government position, where would you want it to be?

• 49:10Tom Bilyeu?

  Government efficiency.

• 49:12Speaker 02

  The one that was just created?

• 49:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Facts.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  Copy it. I would have thought you would have said like the Department of Commerce, Secretary of State. I feel like you could.

• 49:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, God. Nothing that made me leave what I'm doing. Hell, no. I was put on this earth to tell stories, the thing that I'm least known for. But that is my thing. And speaking of which, by the way, my most recent comic book just came out on Tappus. If you're not already reading it, All Systems Go is out, baby.

• 49:41Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 49:41Tom Bilyeu?

  So, yeah, storytelling, I would not do anything that led me to give up this business. So that's one of the reasons I like that is it's sort of outside the government. It's not an official head department.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  All right, I'm gonna push you on this. If I gave you the government budget, you're a single issue voter. If I put the government budget in front of you and said you had to slash some things, what would you slash?

• 49:59Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so first of all, if you really understand me, you already know the answer to that, which is I would want a team of rivals. So I would want to sit down with truly well-intentioned people. I would want to agree on KPIs. Where are we trying to go? What's the end state that we want? What are the KPIs that we believe indicate that we're actually going that way? And then I would want to debate it fiercely. Now, I am very comfortable in the, what Bush called the decider role. Perfectly happy to be the decider. But I want to be in a room with the smartest people who disagree with me in good faith that will go to battle and say, this is what I think is true, and try to figure out from as many different angles as possible.

• 50:42Tom Bilyeu?

  So I would not want to be the sole decision maker. That would be a disaster.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  Love that. All right. Bitcoin hit 90,000. Do you see it hitting 100K next year?

• 50:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, almost certainly. Almost certainly. Let me reach into the future.

• 50:58Tom Bilyeu?

  Some relatively small percentage of the entire universe of asset classes, I forget how much it is, like 80 trillion dollars or something stupid like that. In fact, if you can fact check me, just say worldwide asset value, it's going to be something in the trillions. So if you take that, real estate, art, equities, all of it, all of it, all of it.

• 51:20Speaker 02

  454.

• 51:21Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, way, even way more. 454.4 trillion dollars at the end of 2022. Okay, so you need a very small slice of that to go into Bitcoin for Bitcoin to like quintuple. I mean, literally a just tiny fraction. So if, I think somebody ran the math, it's like if Bitcoin were to get seven or eight percent of that, which would put it somewhere, I think roughly in the neighborhood of gold.

• 51:52Tom Bilyeu?

  It would be worth over 2 million, I think. The numbers are directionally correct. Someone's going to need to fact check me on the exact number. So if we're at 90,000 now, do we get to 150,000? Almost certainly. Do you get to 250,000? Probably. Does it get north of that? It certainly could. I think there's a very easy case to be made, and I think it goes like this. Right now, kids are being born and all they know is Bitcoin. All they know is that the stock tickers all show Bitcoin, that their friends care about the price of Bitcoin. They never knew that. I mean, I guess they hear about the fact that at some point, people debated, was Bitcoin real? Was it not real? But to them, it's like, it won't even be Fortnite, but their Fortnite skin today

• 52:34Tom Bilyeu?

  matters as much to them as real clothes, and they think it's weird when their parents say, don't you want to spend that money on something real? They're like, what do you, real? What do you mean, real? It doesn't compute. Of course it's real. Like, that's where their friends see them. That's where they spend the vast majority of their time with their friends is in the virtual world. I think people are going to be blindsided over the next 10 years, how much time people spend in a virtual world. Have you seen the, I know this is the lightning around, forgive me, but have you seen the Apple Vision Pro and how it can overlay a skin into on your own house, apartment, whatever? And you can be like, show me my house in real time as if it were the 1950s. Show me my house in real time as if it were in the future or a horror movie or whatever. And it just skins it instantly. You can open the fridge, grab things and just, it's all seamlessly skinned.

• 53:19Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, people do not understand every day, the world's going to get more virtual. As the world gets more virtual, obviously people that grow up in that environment, it will be weird that you make a delineation between physical gold and virtual gold. I don't understand why you think one is better than the other. In fact, they'll be like, wait, I have to store the physical gold in my house? How do I even ship it? How do I move it? They pick one up, they're like, Jesus, this is so heavy. Like, what are you talking about? Whereas the, the virtual gold, they can just send anywhere. It's worth a fortune. They can store their money in it. It's way easier. It's harder for the government to seize. Not impossible. Don't get me started on that, but harder for sure. And so, yeah, it, this is where, oh, all of a sudden, everybody wants to think of short-term time horizons.

• 54:04Tom Bilyeu?

  It's like this one, if you just like play this game out, obviously it becomes in the long term, kids just grow up with it. It'll be, it will be a de facto thing in their arsenal of places to store value.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  You hear it first, Tom, Bill, you said Bitcoin's going to 2 million, so buy all the Bitcoin.

• 54:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Did not say that. Don't you dare. This is not financial advice.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  Disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer.

• 54:29Tom Bilyeu?

  Exactly. When, when I get that lawsuit, guess who I'm sending in? That will be Drew doing the deposition.

• 54:36Speaker 02

  Disclaimer, disclaimer, asterisk, asterisk. See your attorney, see your tax guy, see your mom, whoever you need to talk to. We didn't do it. All right, uh, it's fall season. I never asked you, do you like candy corn?

• 54:46Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't fuck with candy corn at all.

• 54:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, okay.

• 54:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Not in the slightest. Why?

• 54:50Speaker 02

  I'm so glad you said that.

• 54:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Candy corn?

• 54:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's like a

• 54:52Tom Bilyeu?

  It's wax.

• 54:52Speaker 02

  It's a divisive thing. People are like, love candy corn.

• 54:54Tom Bilyeu?

  No, it's not okay. It's not okay.

• 54:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't get it.

• 54:56Tom Bilyeu?

  It's not okay.

• 54:57Speaker 02

  Okay, follow up, black licorice.

• 54:58Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, it's the only thing people should eat. If it were healthy, I would probably make every meal black licorice. My tongue would be permanently stained black. I love it so much. I was heartbroken. Calvin and Hobbes, one of the greatest comics of all time, I was heartbroken when he likened black licorice to writhing maggots. I was devastated. I, in that moment, it was the first time I realized not everybody likes black licorice. I had no idea. How can you not like it? It's delicious.

• 55:23Speaker 02

  We had so many disagreements in the past. This one might have taken the

• 55:25Tom Bilyeu?

  That's the one. This is the one that hurts you. You're like, I can get Trump fine.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  Trump fine. Licorice, absolutely not.

• 55:31Tom Bilyeu?

  Can't have it.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  That's the line in the sand. And last but not least, Mike Tyson is fighting Logan Paul this weekend.

• 55:36Tom Bilyeu?

  No, he's not, but he's fighting Jake Paul.

• 55:38Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, he's fighting Jake Paul. Sorry. I promise all white guys on YouTube aren't the same. I promise that. Take it over time. Mike Tyson is fighting Jake Paul.

• 55:46Tom Bilyeu?

  Come on, you gotta leave that in. That was hilarious. Uh, so who do I think's gonna win?

• 55:51Speaker 02

  Who you think's gonna win?

• 55:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Ooh. I don't know at all. So let me walk you through the two different ways that I could see this going. Jake Paul has real knockout power. And so I worry that at 58, the brain just cannot handle that kind of trauma. And so it is entirely possible, given that Jake can knock people out in their prime, that he just not only knocks Mike out, but like damages Mike in a way. Just dude, you're 58. The, the padding that absorbs the normal blows in the brain, like that liquid cushion, like all that stuff is just not going to be as good, dude. Like you get way more brittle as you age.

• 56:34Tom Bilyeu?

  So that scares me. I don't want to see 58 year olds box with a boxer in their prime. Full stop. That's just, that's bad mojo. So that's my sort of fear because Mike is such a legend, but Mike is also a monster. He is, he is a monster, man. Like I, I was growing up with Mike in his prime, which is unlike anything, man. So i- if Mike is able to generate that like old school power and can just put a hurt on Jake. Cause the one time Jake really went against another boxer with a similar record, he lost. So it's not like Jake is a phenom. He's impressive. And I think taking anything away from him just because he's a YouTuber

• 57:17Tom Bilyeu?

  who does fights for the carnival of it. I think that would be a mistake.

• 57:23Tom Bilyeu?

  My, my fear is that he's gonna, he's gonna damage Tyson and take him out. That's my fear, but it would be pretty exciting if Mike just really put a hurt on him. That would be more fun. Maybe because I'm old, I think that, but that would be more fun.

• 57:36Speaker 02

  No, I definitely think that's the sentiment like the culture is rooting for Mike Tyson and Jake Paul is definitely the villain here.

• 57:42Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 57:42Speaker 02

  But CTE aside, it should be a good fight.

• 57:44Tom Bilyeu?

  Indeed.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  That's all I got.

• 57:46Tom Bilyeu?

  All right, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. If you have not already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. Peace.

• 58:00Tom Bilyeu?

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