Tucker and MTG on the 5 Pillars of MAGA and the Snakes in Washington Trying to Tear Them Down

Ted Cruz, Lindsey Graham and Mark Levin have declared themselves the heirs of MAGA. Before Wikipedia erases the recent past and people start to believe this, a reality check with MTG. Paid partnerships with: PureTalk: Go to https://PureTalk.com/Tucker to and save 50% off your first month. Black Rifle Coffee: Promo code "Tucker" for 30% off at https://www.blackriflecoffee.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:30Tucker Carlson?

  So there's this scene in Animal Farm. It's the last scene in the novel, the famous George Orwell novel, the one less referred to, the 1984, but in some ways, a lot better. And there's this scene where the pigs and the men are playing cards at a table. Now, for the course of the novel, the pigs are leading the animals, the animals of the farm, in rebellion against the men, whose cruel and capricious and greedy leadership has kind of wrecked the farm, and they've risen up collectively to take back what's theirs, the means of production. And they're gonna distribute the fruits equally, and everything's gonna be fair and equitable, and things are gonna be great. And the pigs naturally rise to the top of the hierarchy because they're the smartest and following them, and the kind of stalwart horses,

• 1:14Tucker Carlson?

  and the sweet, tempered, trusting cattle, et cetera, all the way on down the chain. And so it's left to the pigs to negotiate with the men, the former farm owners. And of course, they hate the men, right? They're the declared enemy of the men. And in the final scene, the other animals are gathered outside the house, noses pressed against the glass, and the pigs are sitting, basically, partying with the men. And for a moment, they become indistinguishable. You can't tell the pig from the man. They've melded into one. In other words, the movement the pigs led has been completely corrupted and become the mirror image of what it purported to be. And the reason, this, of course, was describing the Soviet leadership, which overthrew an aristocracy

• 1:57Tucker Carlson?

  only to install its own even more tyrannical version, genocidal version. But it really describes almost all human organizations, which unless you're careful and thoughtful and get into the consistent habit of restating your principles out loud, most human organizations wind up resembling, just organically, over time... Whatever force they were created to fight against, they become inversions of themselves, mirror images of what they were intended to be. This is just the way things are. It certainly happened to the Democratic Party, by the way, in our lifetimes. I mean, 40 years ago, the Democratic Party was the party of what? Peace and human rights and against big business.

• 2:42Tucker Carlson?

  And since the Clinton years, of course, it has been the opposite of those things. The Democratic Party has been the defender of oligarchy and the main driver of war. And of course, the sort of great proponents of censorship and the opponent of human rights. My body, my choice, they say, as they force you to take the COVID vax. And this has been noted quite a bit. There was a pretty good book written about it several years ago, I would say, called Ship of Fools. Sorry. But this can happen not just to the Democratic Party and the Communist Party, the Bolshevik Party of 1917. It could happen to really any party, including the Republican Party, including the party of MAGA. It hasn't happened necessarily, but there are people who would like it to happen.

• 3:25Tucker Carlson?

  And so without attacking them personally and with the sincere belief that they're acting out of their own interests and their own beliefs and trying to subvert a movement that they did not create and have nothing to do with. But they're doing it for reasons that they think are valid. You know, with taking out the possibility that they're just evil, trying to destroy something, giving them every benefit of every doubt. There are some pretty highly aggressive people in Washington DC who are trying to turn the MAGA movement into the opposite of what it was created to be, the opposite of what voters hoped it would be when they voted for it, what tens of millions of Americans believed it was.

• 4:05Tucker Carlson?

  And so before that happens completely and before we forget what MAGA once was, it's probably worth stating in very clear terms what it is. What is MAGA? Well, MAGA, of course, means Make America Great Again. It's an acronym, but what does that mean exactly? We don't have to guess because Donald Trump, for 10 years, 10 full years, 2015 to 2025, has been articulating again and again and again, a remarkable level of repetition, actually, five consistent themes about what this is. What is MAGA? So let's go through and name and explain the five pillars of MAGA.

• 4:48Tucker Carlson?

  It's not exactly the Bill of Rights, but in political terms, it's meaningful. These are the founding principles of the governing political coalition that runs the United States right now. And they are too rarely articulated, so let's do that. Let's start with number one. What is the first pillar of MAGA? Well, of course, it's "America First." Here's Donald Trump, before he got the nomination for president, and I think in the spring of 2016, explaining what "America First" means. Here he is.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  My foreign policy will always put the interests of the American people and American security above all else. Has to be first, has to be. That will be the foundation of every single decision that I will make. America... America First will be the major and overriding theme of my administration.

• 5:49Tucker Carlson?

  April 27th, 2016. At the time, Donald Trump had been elected to nothing. He'd not even officially secured the nomination. Ted Cruz was still running against him until the Indiana primary the next month. He was still just a candidate, totally unproven. But the central theme of the next 10 years of his political life, and of the country's political life, is right there in that clip. "America First." The purpose and duty of the American government is to represent the United States of America. Another way to put it would be, "The duty of the US government is to make good on the core promise of democracy, which is that the country operates on behalf of its owners, the citizens of that country."

• 6:33Tucker Carlson?

  It would seem very obvious. Of course, Trump was attacked for it immediately. He was called an anti-Semite. You may not remember this, but he was, because he used a phrase that Charles Lindbergh, who was, by the way, not an anti-Semite, but who did oppose American entry into World War II, along with tens of millions of other Americans, used very often. The "America First" movement was the American movement of the 19, late 1930s, early 1940s, pushing the Roosevelt administration away from joining a war in Europe. Doesn't mean they were pro-Nazi, many of them were very anti-Nazi, but they didn't think the United States had a role in that war, and they said it. And probably the most famous living American at the time, Charles Lindbergh, who in 1927 flew across the Atlantic Ocean solo, truly a hero.

• 7:18Tucker Carlson?

  Was the leader of this movement. And of course, history being what it is, rewritten by the victors, he has been slandered ever since as some sort of hater or pro Hitler, anti-Saudi or something. He was none of the above. But the point is, when Trump used the phrase "America first", he was attacked as some sort of deviant, moral deviant. But the idea itself was so self-evidently true, like obvious, that for a lot of people, even non-Republicans, a light bulb went off. Wait a second. You mean, the government doesn't operate on that principle? We always assumed that our government, which we pay for, which does everything it does in our name, the country that we were born in, that our ancestors built,

• 8:03Tucker Carlson?

  we assumed they were always acting on our behalf. That every decision was made through the lens, "Is this good for the United States or not?" And it took Donald Trump's entry from real estate into politics in 2015 to awaken the rest of the country that actually know. Many decisions, some of the biggest decisions the US government makes, have no reference point at all in American interest. They just don't care whether it's good for the United States. Well, that's not only inherently anti-democratic, it's illegitimate. That's not a legitimate government. If you have a democratic republic, whose government is not acting on behalf of the citizens, you don't have a legitimate government. That's grounds for overthrowing the government, actually. So, people were shocked by this, and Trump was attacked. But of course, you know the rest.

• 8:46Tucker Carlson?

  He went on to win the nomination and the presidency that year, really on the basis of that idea. "America first." You can have only one true allegiance, and it needs to be to the United States. You can't have dual citizenship, because you can't have dual loyalty. In the same way that polygamy, for whatever its benefits, doesn't work very well, in the long run, because you can't be truly loyal to two wives. Sorry. And you can't be truly loyal to two countries, because sometimes their interests intersect, but very often, they diverge. And you have to pick one. Because there's a fork in the road and you can only take one path.

• 9:27Tucker Carlson?

  And it has to be the path that serves the country that you live in. And that's the United States of America, America first. So that's the first principle of MAGA. And every decision that this ruling coalition makes has to be made through the lens of America first, period. But there are four remaining pillars that derive from the first. So is America first. The second point that Trump made again and again and again, and road to the presidency that year, and once again in 2024, is that the country has to control its borders. If you do not control your borders, you are not a country. Because a nation state is a physical place identifiable on a map. It has borders. There's a difference between 10 feet on this side and 10 feet on the other side.

• 10:10Tucker Carlson?

  A totally different set of laws, often customs, language, one's this country, the other's that country. You can't have a global country. It doesn't work and it's inherently tyrannical. And Trump made that point again and again by saying famously, "Build that wall." Here he is.

• 10:26Speaker 02

  We're going to have strong, incredible borders and people are going to come into our country, but they're going to come into our country legally. They're going to come in legally. We're going to build a wall. It's going to be built.

• 10:46Tucker Carlson?

  "We're going to build a wall." That was almost 10 years ago. The wall has not been built. Despite what you may hear, there is not a wall spanning the US-Mexico border. There are portions of wall, but for a bunch of different reasons, it has not been built. And that is a measure of several things, but one of them is the resistance to that idea in Washington. Turns out, and we learned this during that campaign, the Republican Party didn't want to build a wall, actually. That's why they'd never tried. And they didn't want to build a wall because they didn't want distinct borders and they didn't want distinct borders because they weren't nationalists, they were globalists. So by saying that, Trump didn't actually end up building the wall, but he did end up revealing the nature of the people running the country, which is completely deceptive and rotten.

• 11:30Tucker Carlson?

  They were deceptive and rotten and they were busted being that way. And to this day, they've resisted actual border control. And to this day, they're digging in their heels on deportation. And to this day, they're denying that the native population, the American-born population is being replaced, but it is. And that's not a conspiracy theory, it's hardly hate to note what the numbers are, but the numbers show very clearly that people who were born in this country and whose parents and grandparents were born in this country are soon going to be a minority. They are being replaced by people from other countries, it's just a fact. It's not a great replacement theory, it's a great replacement reality measurable through census numbers.

• 12:13Tucker Carlson?

  And the resistance of both parties to acknowledging that simple mathematical fact tells you everything about their intent, which is highly sinister, they want it. And a lot of those people are Republicans. They've disliked Trump from day one for pushing for this, they dislike him now. But we know that because he said it. He articulated the truth out loud, and that illuminated the positions of everyone else in the room. And for that, the rest of us should be forever grateful. But that's pillar two, you have to have real borders, and the people who live in the country have a moral and legal right to choose who else joins them, in the same way that a homeowner has a right to decide who sleeps in his house, because it's his house. This is a foundational right.

• 12:57Tucker Carlson?

  If it's our country, we determine who lives next door to us. And if it's not, we don't. It's literally that simple. So, America first, the country must have secure borders, those are the first two. The third pillar of MAGA, and this is something that President Trump, now President Trump, then candidate Trump articulated from the very first days of his campaign, is that the war on terror and all pointless wars, wars that do not serve America's direct national interest, in other words wars that are not wars of self-defense, wars that are not repelling an invasion, are pointless, and worse than pointless, they are bad for the United States.

• 13:37Tucker Carlson?

  They are corrosive of our social order, they completely overturn our society on some hard to measure but yet obvious over time level, they're incredibly expensive, and by the way, they kill Americans and a lot of other people. They're bad, and they're almost never waged in an effort to serve our interests, but instead to serve the interests of other countries. He said that for the very first time in the...

• 14:00Tucker Carlson?

  February, I think, of 2016 GOP primary debate in Greenville, South Carolina, when he said right to the face of former President Bush's brother Jeb, the Iraq war was a disaster. And at the time, that was considered so shocking that people couldn't even believe he said it. In fact, at Fox, where I then work, one of our most brilliant analysts said, you know, he made a huge mistake because South Carolina, checking the briefing book, South Carolina is the highest proportion of military veterans of any of the states. And of course, naturally, they love the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. People still talk like this in 2016. Thanks to Trump, they no longer do. They've been exposed as dummies and liars. No matter what the briefing book says, the opposite turned out to be true,

• 14:43Tucker Carlson?

  which is that people who had wasted years of their lives and lost friends and developed all kinds of psychological and physical damage from these wars and were at the very least apart from their families for years at a time, these were the people most likely to be opposed to more pointless wars. But Trump kept up this theme, and in some ways, it was the most controversial thing he ever said, then or now, no more wars. Here's Donald Trump making the exact same point much more recently.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  We are never going back to a party that wants to give unlimited money to fight foreign wars, that are endless wars, that are stupid wars. I was the only president in modern history who did not have any new wars, no new wars. I finished some old ones. I finished some old ones. We'll be stopping the slide into costly and never-ending wars. We've got to stop it. Can't keep spending hundreds of billions of dollars protecting people that don't even like us.

• 15:45Tucker Carlson?

  "We can't keep spending tens of billions of dollars to protect people who don't even like us. I will stop this." That was one of the most popular things Trump said in 2016, up until that was March of 2023 at CPAC, up until recently. Every time Trump says that, including in the UN speech not that long ago, he gets wild applause from his own voters. If there is one theme, if you were to survey 100 people who voted for Donald Trump in 2016, 2020, and 2024, why did you vote for him? You would find an overwhelming majority voted for him, in part because they don't want more pointless wars, because since 2001, we've had an endless succession of them, and we

• 16:28Tucker Carlson?

  haven't won a single one, not a single one. And every single one of them has weakened the United States in measurable ways and hurt Americans deeply in measurable ways. One of the reasons we have an opioid crisis is because of those wars. And not a single one of those wars was waged on behalf of the United States or its interests. Every single one of them was waged on behalf of our so-called allies, or some stupid idea about turning the Middle East into Western Europe, or something, even as Western Europe itself descended to a level that's below the Middle East, which it is right now. People feel deep and justified resentment about that. Donald Trump harnessed that and articulated it, and he was the only one to do it.

• 17:08Tucker Carlson?

  That clip you just saw from CPAC in 2023, when he said that, the most popular Republican candidate at the Wall Street Journal, the New York Post, and Fox News, and among all the donors in the Republican Party, was not Donald Trump at all. In fact, he was fined to stay out of jail when he said that. He was considered a has-been. It was going to be Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, who was a pretty effective governor of Florida, and a much admired governor of Florida, but during that campaign, we also found out that he was just a tool of his donors and a screaming, low-IQ neocon. It was Ron DeSantis, or it was Nikki Haley, who was busy telling us that we need Israel more than Israel needs us, and other things that were so nonsensical and insane that no one dared ask her to explain them.

• 17:53Tucker Carlson?

  Those were the favorites, the anti-Trump's, the candidates who are going to undo the damage that Trump had done to our sacred alliances with NATO and other countries we have literally nothing to do with and almost no common interest with, but to whom we spend, send billions and billions and billions, tens, hundreds over the years, of billions of dollars to do what? To bring gay rights to Lithuania? Or something? It's not even clear. But a lot of people in Washington are getting rich from these multinational organizations, these peacekeeping organizations, and a lot of highly ideological...

• 18:33Tucker Carlson?

  Foreign policy establishment figures who do not have America's interests first in mind, and never have, use those wars for their own ends, which again, are not related to America's interests on any level, in fact, run directly contrary to America's interests, hurt America. And so, at the moment when Trump was about to go to jail, it looked like, and fighting against what seemed like a wave of donor investment in Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis, he comes out and says, "No, I'm the opposite, no more wars." And guess what happened? He won the nomination and he won the presidency, again.

• 19:15Tucker Carlson?

  So, anyone who would say, "Well, that wasn't an important part of his platform, that's not actually a pillar," right. This just happened, we remember it and it's on tape. No more wars, pillar three. Pillar four, how about some real jobs? Donald Trump, from day one, 2015, the famous escalator ride, in fact, going back 40 years in his CNN appearances, for example, with Larry King, or his work on ABC, would almost always make the same point in various ways, but it was the same point, which was globalization shortchanges America. It helps bankers, it helps the finance class quite a bit, once you financialize things,

• 20:00Tucker Carlson?

  in a globalized economy, money moves much more easily, there's much less friction, and a small number of people get very, very rich, but the country itself becomes a husk, it becomes hollowed out, there's nothing for people to do, and a country that doesn't make anything is not a real country. Everyone sort of knows this intuitively, but libertarian economists, basically doing the bidding of the finance class, have for the past 40 years told us, "No, no, it's totally fine," because it hikes GDP. "Oh, GDP." As if GDP is the only, or even the best, measure of the health of an economy, or the health of a nation, or the health of its people, and of course, that's ridiculous. GDP is the measure of all economic activity. What does that mean? What does that mean?

• 20:45Tucker Carlson?

  Well, not much, actually. A country that doesn't make anything, a country that has, say, six thriving cities, and the rest of the continent falling into poverty...

• 20:59Tucker Carlson?

  Is not a thriving country, it's a dying country. And Donald Trump has made that point consistently for 40 years. Bring back real jobs. Finance is not enough. Here's one among a thousand examples of him saying that.

• 21:15Speaker 03

  Our politicians have aggressively pursued a policy of globalization, moving our jobs, our wealth, and our factories to Mexico and overseas. Globalization has made the financial elite who donate to politicians very, very wealthy. But it's left millions of our workers with nothing but poverty and heartache.

• 21:40Tucker Carlson?

  Every word of that is true, and if you don't believe it, drive from Los Angeles to New York City if you dare. Stop along the way, stay in local hotels, motels, and ask yourself, what is this? Is this the country I remember? No, this is a poor country in many places, especially outside the cities, and some of our cities are becoming really poor, including Los Angeles, our second biggest city. So it's a crisis, and it is primarily an economic crisis, and its downstream effects are countless, and they include all kinds of social crises. But at the heart of this is an economy that has been completely hollowed out by finance.

• 22:22Tucker Carlson?

  And it's not actually the Chinese who did this, it's Americans who did this, actually. The Chinese never invaded this country and stole our manufacturing jobs, they didn't occupy our factories, they didn't force, you know, 10 more to make its washing machines in Wuhan. No. American companies were sold piecemeal to the Chinese for the profit of the people who owned those companies, or who were financing, who owned the debt on those companies, et cetera, et cetera. That's just true.

• 23:00Tucker Carlson?

  And Trump has said that again and again and again, and he got elected president on it. So that is the fourth pillar of MAGA. Bring back a real economy. Globalization is not working for the United States at all. Most Americans agree with that. That's why Trump got the majority of the popular vote. And the fifth pillar of MAGA is very simple. Free speech. It's our birthright. It's the first right enumerated in the Bill of Rights. It was given to us by God. The purpose of having the US government is to protect that right, among several others. But that is the most basic human right. That is the difference between slavery and freedom. Can you say what you actually think?

• 23:44Tucker Carlson?

  Now censorship is an ongoing threat in every society at every time in history. The powerful do not want the people over whom they rule to complain about the way they're ruling, or complain about their behavior, or in our case, complain about their looting. And so they devise all kinds of schemes, sometimes dressed up as religious precepts. That's a blasphemy. You can't say that.

• 24:05Tucker Carlson?

  In our secular age, those same attempts have been dressed up as sensitivity. Oh, you're being mean to black people. You can't say that about the LGBT community. Oh, that's antisemitic. Whatever it is. Those demands for censorship have been couched as a way to protect marginalized groups.

• 24:24Tucker Carlson?

  But they remain what they've always been. An attempt to keep less powerful people from criticizing the most powerful people. That's exactly what they are. They're attempts at censorship, always. And Donald Trump, in his relentless attacks on, quote, "woke culture", has been the most effective articulator of this in American politics in a generation, a century, maybe ever. Donald Trump has stood up against censorship, whether he knew he was doing it or not, from the very first day, by saying things you weren't allowed to say, and then not apologizing for them. Broadening the boundaries of acceptable discourse in public.

• 25:05Tucker Carlson?

  Taking the flak for, you know, broadening the famous Overton window, again and again and again. Here's just one example from the last campaign of Trump explaining why wokeness is really just an attempt to make you shut up.

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Americans are exhausted trying to keep up with the latest lists of approved words and phrases and the ever more restrictive political decrees. Many things have a different name now and the rules are constantly changing. The goal of cancel culture is to make decent Americans live in fear of being fired, expelled, shamed, humiliated, and driven from society as we know it. The far-left wants to coerce you into saying what you know to be false and scare you out of saying what you know to be true.

• 26:08Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly. Very nicely put. Of course, from his acceptance speech last summer in Milwaukee when he got the Republican nomination for president. Cancel culture is a synonym for censorship, the effect to coerce people into repeating slogans they know are not true and not stating the obvious, the true things, out loud. That is censorship. And Donald Trump took a public stand against it again and again and again and led by example on this question again and again and again. That is the fifth pillar of MAGA. So to restate, there are five components of the MAGA movement, ideological components, pillars, and they are: America first, the belief, the guiding principle above all others,

• 26:52Tucker Carlson?

  that every decision the US government makes ought to be to the benefit of the United States. Two, a country has to have borders so people who live in a country decide who lives here. No one else decides. The people of the country should be in charge of who their neighbors are because they own the country. Number three, no more pointless wars. We've done it, it hasn't worked. This country's not actually won a war decisively since 1945, and we did it with the help of Joseph Stalin, so let's get real. This hasn't worked and we haven't done it for ourselves, we've done it for others through lobbying campaigns, pressure campaigns, and ideological nonsense that in retrospect looks completely absurd and those of us who fell for it are deeply ashamed that we did because it was dumb then and even dumber now.

• 27:36Tucker Carlson?

  Three, globalization has not worked for the United States. You can't have an economy based on real estate and finance. Sorry, maybe if you're Hong Kong or Singapore, but a continent-sized country needs to make things. Finance and real estate are not productive industries. One just keeps reselling a piece of ground. Maybe you improve it a little bit, but ultimately, what have you created? And the other basically just loans money and interest. Now, they probably have a place in a broader economy, but if your whole economy is just finance and real estate, your country's gonna die, and ours is, to the benefit of a small number of people, but not to the benefit of the 350 million who live here.

• 28:18Tucker Carlson?

  And five, pillar number five, free speech is, is the basis of America. That's the fundamental human right that this country exists to protect. And so, any attempt to abridge it must be fought tooth and nail, period. So you would think that every Republican would agree with all of these. In fact, you'd think every Democrat would. These are not controversial ideas. These are not, "Let's round our enemies up," or something, or like... These are not crazy. These are foundational American ideals. Trump has, from day one, been a moderate, actually. What's immoderate about those goals? Nothing, except that they challenged the way that things were done.

• 29:03Tucker Carlson?

  And so, if you look at it with clear eyes, backward, for the last 10 years, Donald Trump's real battle has not been against Democrats, it's been against Republicans. Donald Trump was not a Republican before he ran for president. He was a Democrat, or an independent, or a frequent talk show guest, or a beauty pageant host, or whatever. But he was not a Republican. And so, his real battle was then and is now against the Republican Party. And the existing players in that party hated all five pillars, all five, because they were a direct challenge to their stewardship of the party and the country over decades. And by this point, the Republican Party had been so captured by special interests, by donors,

• 29:47Tucker Carlson?

  that they were committed to the opposite on all five, on all five.

• 29:53Tucker Carlson?

  They were not acting, they didn't put the country's interests above all others in their decision-making, that's ridiculous. They did absolutely nothing, nothing to secure the border, and they still aren't. Ted Cruz, who's a big MAGA guy, Ted Cruz ran against Trump in 2016, but Ted Cruz was a sitting senator from Texas for the entire Biden administration, where they sent over 12 million people into his state illegally over the border. Now, if Ted Cruz had held like a press conference every week and said to the governor of his state, Greg Abbott, "I'm the senator from Texas, our state's being invaded, it's an entry point for the country, this is destroying Texas and America, mobilize the National Guard

• 30:37Tucker Carlson?

  today and seal that border. And if that precipitates a conflict with the federal government, so be it. This is illegal, it's immoral, and it's going to wreck this country. National Guard exists for a reason, use it now." If he'd done that, that would have happened, but he didn't, because he was busy serving his masters in another country, which is not our country. And that is true not just of Ted Cruz, who's the most kind of pathetic, craven example, but of so many Republican politicians, they didn't want closed borders, because their donors didn't want closed borders. Of course, they were all in on the war on terror, and they refused even to look backwards and assess whether or not what they had advocated for had succeeded. They were all in on the Iraq war, like I was, but the difference is,

• 31:18Tucker Carlson?

  they refused to admit that they were wrong, and millions of people died as a result of that, of their being wrong. And our treasury was emptied, and the US dollar devalued completely to the point where gold is over 4,000 today. Why is that? Maybe because we spent like $6 trillion on the war on terror, got nothing out of it? We sent pallets of cash to warlords in various countries, what did we get out of that? Nothing. We armed the Taliban, what did we get out of that? Nothing. The whole thing was insane. If you can't say that was bad, if you can't say "I'm sorry for supporting that," you're a deeply corrupt person, and Trump called them out, and they hated him for it. As to globalization, they benefited from it, of course, they're tools of the finance class, of course, every one of them. They had no real interest in ending that.

• 32:02Tucker Carlson?

  And on free speech, perhaps most shamefully of all, the Republican Party's core institutions, its publications, National Review, the New York Post, Fox News, whatever, its think tanks, too many even to mention, all of them acted not as guardians of free speech, pushing the limits of acceptable discourse, encouraging people to open their minds and think creatively about what's best for the country. No, they acted as scolds, as crossing guards, forcing their fellow conservatives to shut up and get back in lane. That's the whole career of William F. Buckley, was telling fellow conservatives, "That's not acceptable."

• 32:43Tucker Carlson?

  They weren't for free speech, they were just the opposite, they were censors. And Trump exposed all of that, and they hated him for it, all of them. There are very few Republican office holders in 2016, or 2020, or 2024, or even right now, in October of 2025, who sincerely like Trump. They hate Trump because he represents everything they're opposed to. They hate Trump, including people who work for Trump, hate Trump. And some of them said it out loud. Here's one of Trump's new best friends back in 2016, explaining how much he hates Donald Trump.

• 33:19Speaker 04

  At some point, you gotta stand up to it. I do not like bullies, and I never have. So I will not be voting for Donald Trump, and he can thank Roger Stone. And if they piss me off one more time, I'm gonna urge millions and millions of you, should he get the nomination, not to vote for him either. I'm very serious about this.

• 33:40Tucker Carlson?

  Mark Levin is very serious about this. So, why was Mark Levin mad? Why was he so mad? Why was Bill Kristol so mad? They're both kind of for Trump, actually. I remember very well, I knew them. And a lot of other people in Washington, very much like them. Why were they so mad at Trump? Well, that was early April of 2016. That was a few weeks after Trump announced at that earlier referenced primary debate in South Carolina that the Iraq war was a mistake. Whoa, that was too far. Because any politician who will acknowledge that the Iraq war was a mistake probably won't get on board with the future Iraq war. And that's all they cared about, was more Iraq wars waged on behalf of another country, its interests, not ours.

• 34:27Tucker Carlson?

  Irrelevant the damage to the United States, irrelevant the cost, irrelevant the death toll. They wanted politicians who would do that again, and anyone who called it a mistake probably wouldn't. And so it's just worth remembering that some of Donald Trump's staunchest allies, the ones always telling you, lecturing you about MAGA and telling you who's in, who's out, "You're not MAGA, you're not MAGA." Those very same people disagree with every single one of Donald Trump's five stated rationales for running, and much more important than that, all five reasons that tens of millions of Americans voted for him.

• 35:09Tucker Carlson?

  They don't just disagree with Trump, they disagree with the bulk of the country who want these things badly. And those people are now telling you, "Oh, you're not MAGA." This is the pigs and the men becoming indistinguishable in the final scene of Animal Farm. And again, it's organic, this happens to all institutions, it will happen unless someone stops it, unless there is a clear and persistent and repeated articulation of what we're doing here. What is this about? Is it about one guy? No, it's not, sorry. It's not about one guy, a guy to whom most of us will always be grateful for articulating vitally important principles out loud, being the first one in my lifetime to do so. God bless you for doing that.

• 35:52Tucker Carlson?

  But it's bigger than any person, it's about the survival of the country. And it's about these five facts, these principles, these pillars, that's what MAGA is. And so you can measure anybody who claims to lead the movement against those five things, because they don't change, until they're fixed, which they have not been. Pure Talk customers are proud of their wireless company, think about that. You never hear anyone with Verizon or AT&T say, "I'm really proud to use Verizon or AT&T." No, they're a little embarrassed. They might be satisfied with the service, but feeling proud? No, probably not, and there's a reason. Americans with Pure Talk feel proud to use Pure Talk.

• 36:34Tucker Carlson?

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• 37:19Tucker Carlson?

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• 37:28Speaker 05

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• 38:13Speaker 05

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• 38:20Speaker 06

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• 39:05Speaker 06

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• 39:21Tucker Carlson?

  So we thought it'd be worth checking in with one of Donald Trump's earliest supporters, someone who supported Donald Trump not because she thought he was super charismatic or so great or hilarious, but she, in addition to those qualities, she agreed with all five things. Marjorie Taylor Greene was a business owner in Georgia in 2016 who was at the first Trump rallies that year, continued going to Trump rallies, and by the end of Trump's first term was so inspired by Donald Trump and what he was saying that she ran for Congress. And she, unlike most of her colleagues in that body, actually meant it. And because they could smell that she meant it, because sincerity is by far the most dangerous quality in Washington, someone who really means it is an actual threat.

• 40:05Tucker Carlson?

  Thomas Massey isn't a threat because he won't accept AIPAC money. Thomas Massey's a threat because he won't accept AIPAC money on principle, not because he hates Jews or hates Israel. He doesn't. But because he doesn't think American politicians should be bought by foreign countries, that's against his principles. And because he really means it, he can't be bought. So of course, he must be destroyed. And now, Marjorie Taylor Greene, who, of all 535 members of the, 435 members, House Representatives...

• 40:35Tucker Carlson?

  embodies most purely those principles. And she has cleaved to those principles. She has stuck to them through the years. And for that is now being written out of the movement by MAGA stalwarts like Ted Cruz and Lindsey Graham and Mark Levin, none of whom agree with a single word Trump says and all of whom hate him. So we thought it'd be interesting to talk to her and ask, will it succeed? Will you be kicked out of the movement that you are a core part of? I don't know. Let's ask her. Congressman Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia joins us now.

• 41:08Speaker 07

  Hi, Tucker.

• 41:11Tucker Carlson?

  Congressman, thanks so much for doing this. So I keep reading that you are not representative of MAGA. And that's why I want to have this conversation because I just want to get on tape before Wikipedia erases the past completely and we have no reference points, that you are not a latecomer to the Trump phenomenon, correct?

• 41:31Speaker 07

  Oh, no. I've been on the Trump train since 2015, back when I was just a regular person, didn't even have an idea about running for Congress. As a matter of fact, you laid out those five pillars and I was listening to these clips of Donald Trump and I'm like, oh, my gosh, I love that man. And those are all the reasons I supported him from the very beginning, when he stood on that stage among 17 Republican presidential candidates and the rest of them, I thought, were slimy politicians. But Donald Trump spoke the language that I understood and he was the one that made sense to me.

• 42:12Tucker Carlson?

  You know that Trump is really hated by your colleagues and by almost every single person in Washington. Not every single. There are people at the White House who sincerely love Trump. I know that to be true. But the overwhelming majority of Republicans in Washington secretly hate Trump and they're too afraid of him to say so, but they hate him. Lindsey Graham, obviously Ted Cruz really hates him. Mark Levin openly hates him. But they hate him because they don't agree. And you know that because in the last 10 years, there has been, other than you and Massey and a few others, there have been almost no elected officials in Washington to articulate what exactly MAGA is about. Have you noticed that?

• 42:52Speaker 07

  That's absolutely correct, 1,000%. MAGA, let's take that acronym. There's only one country in MAGA, and it's America. And I can tell you right now, I want to expand on how much Republicans hate Donald Trump. I became a member of Congress in January of 2021. I had only been sworn in for three full days when January 6th happened. And I can tell you firsthand, every single Republican there in Congress, literally, literally turned their back on Donald Trump after January 6th. And he didn't even do it. He had nothing to do with what happened that day. He didn't cause it.

• 43:33Speaker 07

  It was, you know, it was a Fed surrection, Antifa was involved, and then many of these poor people got swept up and went into the Capitol. And it was myself, Matt Gaetz, and a few others. We were the only ones that stayed, you know, said that he's our president, he is, he's the leader of the Republican Party, the American people will not abandon him. I did not abandon him. As a matter of fact, I fought my own Republican colleagues for years, literally years, until he finally won the primary in 2024. That was when they begrudgingly, literally begrudgingly, started saying, okay, I support Donald Trump, he's our nominee. And they still hated him. They absolutely hated him.

• 44:17Speaker 07

  I can remember, I can remember Mike Lawler coming up and saying, you know, he hated, he hated Donald Trump openly, used to make fun of him all the time. And then all of a sudden, after Donald Trump won in 2024, he finally decided it was time to put on a MAGA hat. It just made me sick. But these people are so fake. The only reason that they kiss up to Donald Trump, our president, the only reason they kiss up to him is because they're terrified of a true social post, because they're terrified of their own constituents that fully support AMAGA, that fully support America First, and fully support everything that Donald Trump has laid out now for years and years. And, you know, Americans got to the point where...

• 45:03Speaker 07

  Electing Donald Trump was a referendum on the Republican Party and I very much feel that because many times I hate my own party and I blame Republicans for many of the problems that we have today and I blame them for being so America last to the point where they are literally slaves to all the big industries in Washington, the military industrial complex, Big Pharma, health insurance industries, you name it. They are literally slaves to them and they love the foreign wars so much. But Donald Trump was a referendum to the Republican Party on behalf of the American people, the forgotten man and woman of America that

• 45:42Speaker 07

  were just so sick of Washington DC. And that was me. Absolutely. That has been me the entire time. That's me today, literally serving as a member of Congress. And that's why people see me push back on my own party.

• 45:58Tucker Carlson?

  Well, they've been pushing back on you since the second you got there. I mean, they wouldn't give you committee assignments because they could smell in you incorruptibility, sincerity. And they hated you for that. They literally slandered you before you even arrived. Your own party, I hate to bring up a sore subject, but it was just the most interesting thing I think I've ever watched in Washington. And they turned out to be absolutely right. You were incorruptible, which is why you're here. So what does it feel like to be the person who stood consistently with a series of principles, these five principles, from 2016 to present, one of the only ones, to see people who hated Donald Trump, still hate

• 46:40Tucker Carlson?

  Donald Trump, try to read you out of the movement and take it over?

• 46:45Speaker 07

  Oh, it's, you know, I can tell you, I feel great. I sleep perfect every single night. My voting record is a direct reflection. of me standing with those policies and never wavering or changing anything. When I go back home to my district, Tucker, which I've been here a lot because Mike Johnson won't bring us back to work. But when I'm back in my district, I go to the grocery store, I get hugs, I get hellos, I go to restaurants, I get thank yous. And I go around as a normal person in my district and I really love it because I, these people know me and they know the hard work that I put in for them and they know I haven't changed one single bit. When I'm in Washington DC, it's a completely different matter.

• 47:30Speaker 07

  They, the Republicans that I work with, they, they know, they literally know that they are having to, to serve this agenda as long as the president is, is there in office and they look at him like a speed bump. Many of them can't wait to get him out of the way and so they can just go back to doing business as usual. And I find that repulsive, absolutely repulsive. And here, I'll give you an example. So right now, Tucker, you know, a lot of people are happy about the government shutdown and, but I, I really have no respect for the House not being in session and I have no respect for Speaker Johnson not calling us back to Washington because we should be

• 48:14Speaker 07

  passing bills, we should be passing bills that reflect the president's executive orders, which are exactly what we voted for. We should be at work on our committees, we should be doing investigations. And you want to know something? We should be passing the discharge petition that Thomas Massey put in to release the Epstein files. Those are the things that we should be doing. And we, most of all, Tucker, we should be passing our appropriation bills to actually fund the government and fund important projects that taxpayer dollars, these people pay their taxes, this is how taxpayer dollars come back to your districts. We should be doing that, but no, we're not. And, and these are the things that, this is why I have no respect so many times for

• 48:57Speaker 07

  our party because they get on board and they campaign and they say America first and they try to Utter and mimic these Donald Trump talking points. But when it actually comes to getting to work and delivering those talking points into action for the American people, the people that voted for them, the people that knocked doors for them, that the sweet little ladies that gave three dollars, crumpled up dollars out of their pocketbook, I mean, all these people that worked so hard to give us the majority, when it comes time to doing that, what are we doing? We're sitting at home. And that's, that's something that grinds me, absolutely grinds me. I have no respect for it.

• 49:39Speaker 07

  But when it comes to the Republican Party, you're exactly right in everything you said. The Mark LeVins, the Ted Cruzes, the Lindsey Gramps, they're just playing the game, literally playing the game and trying to tell the American people, oh, oh, no, we carry the MAGA mantle. We support the president. It's people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and others that don't. And they're just lying. They're absolutely lying. Their careers, they just want to stay in power. Mark Levin wants to keep talking so he can promote Israel as much as possible over America. And they really don't care about actually delivering the agenda that the American people desperately want.

• 50:19Tucker Carlson?

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• 51:41Speaker 00

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• 52:11Speaker 08

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• 52:41Tucker Carlson?

  Slash Tucker. The radicalizing moment for me, I think, was in June with the utterly pointless bombing of Iran. And I remember thinking, how many Americans have been killed by Haitians in the last 20 years versus how many have been killed by Iranians? I don't think, in this country, I don't think we've had any Americans killed by Iranians. We've had a lot of Americans killed by Haitians, a lot. And yet Haitians get special protected status, but we're bombing Iran. And I just felt like that would be the kind of America-first way to think about it. You know, let's create a hierarchy of threats, and let's just start with the death toll. And no Americans have been killed on American soil by Iran.

• 53:25Tucker Carlson?

  You know, in my memory. So I'm not saying Iran is great. I'm not endorsing Iran, but I'm saying from an American perspective, that's not even in the top 25 list of threats to us. So all these Republicans, I kind of expected to say, and Mike Johnson is a completely corrupt person, but not Mike Johnson, but like people with souls in the legislative bodies, I expected someone to stand up and say that. And they all went along with it. And they cheered it. Like, what was that? They didn't mean anything, they said.

• 53:57Speaker 07

  Exactly. What, honestly, what was that? I laughed so hard because I was like, you know, Fox News and everyone tells me that Houthis are the most dangerous human beings on the planet. And I literally can't find a single Houthis in my district.

• 54:13Tucker Carlson?

  Can I just say, we are now, since we bombed the Houthis, consistent with American history over the past 70 years, we're going to import a lot of Houthis. Just as we've imported a ton of Afghans and Iraqis and, you know, every country we bomb then gets to move here under some special protective. We're going to have a, we're going to have full Houthis neighborhoods in North Georgia very soon. So get psyched for that.

• 54:37Speaker 07

  Okay. Well, that'll be the first time we see them. And because I don't know what one looks like. I literally have no idea what a Houthis looks like. I've, I've never been to Iran. I don't know why I have to hate them so much. But, but, you know, they've told me over and over again for 30 plus years that they're going to have a nuclear weapon any moment now. And they're going to bomb America and bomb Israel. Still hasn't happened. I was, you know, another thing, when, when we bombed Iran on behalf of Israel, by the way, it was pretty interesting to me that hell was not unleashed like we were told it was going to be. And I didn't see hell be unleashed on Israel. As a matter of fact,

• 55:19Speaker 07

  there, the Iron Dome that America funds, it worked. And people in Israel were safe and people in America were safe. We didn't see a single bomb fall on our heads, on our homes, on our neighborhoods. We didn't see anything happen here like that has happened to Gaza now for, for months and months and months. We didn't see children and toddlers being blown to pieces. We didn't, we didn't hear about these horror stories. We didn't witness it and feel it. But this is the lie that we are constantly told over and over and over again that we have to hate these people in the Middle East, we have to hate these foreign countries, we have to hate Russia because Hollywood tells us that Russia is the ultimate bad guy and

• 56:04Speaker 07

  then we have to be told that, you know, we're going to go to war with Russia. Well, guess what? We've been at war with Russia through Ukraine for years now and it's absurd. And then the really most disturbing one is ever since I've been a member of Congress, they've been telling me that we're going to go to war with China, which I find absolutely absurd. And I'm like, why are we going to war with China? Is there any reason for us to go to war with China? But it's a really sick obsession, Tucker, that I think everyone is sick and tired of is the fact that American people work so hard and pay extremely high taxes for their tax dollars that have to constantly be used to sell weapons and deliver weapons

• 56:47Speaker 07

  and pay countries to kill people. And I can't understand that and people are so sick and tired of it and the veterans in my district are sick and tired of it. But for some reason, this is the continuation of what Washington DC does, no matter who's in charge, Democrats or Republicans. And that's why Donald Trump is absolutely 1,000% right in saying no more foreign wars, no more American tax dollars paying for this blood and murder industry. And that is one of the single reasons I think led to his first election and has led to his first election.

• 57:28Tucker Carlson?

  But we're at a pivot point where the people who cheered on the wars in, I mean, name the countries, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, against the Houthis, whoever they are, those people are poised to, seem to be, to take over the Republican Party. I mean, I thought the whole point of Trump's ascendance was to change the party, to make it consistent with what Republican voters, and not just Republican voters, lots of Democrats switched over to vote for Trump because they wanted those five pillars. And all of a sudden, the people who've for generations wrecked this country seem on the verge of stealing the MAGA copyright.

• 58:13Tucker Carlson?

  Slapping it on their own polo shirts and running the Republican Party. I mean, how is this happening?

• 58:20Speaker 07

  I have no idea, but it's what they always do. It's what they did in his first term. And now we're watching it unfold again, and it is disgusting and people are pissed. I'm talking about pissed. Everyone I'm talking to at home is going, hold on now. Why are we considered hateful and anti-Semitic if we don't want to pay for Israel's wars constantly? That doesn't make us anti-Semitic and hateful. We want our money to stay here at home. Because you want to know something? People are hurting here at home.

• 58:51Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I know.

• 58:52Speaker 07

  Food prices are high, rent is high, home prices are ridiculously high, cars are high, auto insurance, home insurance, health insurance is insane, energy prices are high. I can tell you that in my own electric bills, they're much more expensive than they were even a year ago. The Democrats destroyed our economy, absolutely murdered us with high inflation and their absolute failures for four years. But here now, it should be the focus, the biggest focus from Republicans in Washington DC and the Trump administration, the people that get to have these jobs, Tucker, because people like me worked my ass off

• 59:35Speaker 07

  and spent millions of dollars fighting to get Donald Trump elected. Well, you know, those people that get to have their hoity-toity jobs in the White House, they should be grateful to people like me, not and Mark Levin and all these other people. They shouldn't be putting me down. I helped put that man there because I never backed away from him and I never backed down and I believe in what he wants to do for this country. But what we have going on right now, I mean, seriously, look at it. It's a revolving door at the White House, a revolving door of foreign leaders and prime ministers and presidents all with their hands out, demanding money and demanding attention and demanding America do this. I mean, let's take, for example, this $40 billion bailout for Argentina.

• 1:00:20Speaker 07

  That's probably one of the grossest things I've ever seen. And I have no idea who is telling our great president, our America First president, that this is a good idea. Because it's honestly, it's a punch in the gut to all of our American cattle ranchers. And they are furious, and rightfully so. And at the same time, I can't think of another country that's further away from the United States of America than Argentina. It's literally at the bottom of South America in the Southern Hemisphere, and we're all the way up here at the top. I don't know how that's America First. But the problem, Tucker, is, is it's Washington DC is unchangeable, absolutely unchangeable.

• 1:01:02Speaker 07

  And they have hijacked our movement, and it's, they're taking it away from the campaign promises of America First, and turning it into everything that we hate. We hate globalism. We hate bailing out foreign countries. We hate foreign wars. We hate industries overseas. We want industries supported here at home. And you got people talking about it. It's, people are not silent anymore.

• 1:01:28Tucker Carlson?

  But unless somebody stands up and articulates what this was all about, it's not just about any one person, it's about a set of principles that will save the country, make America great again, then you will see the nature of the movement change completely. I mean, as I sit here right now, Laura Loomer is some kind of informal advisor to the Defense Department wandering around the Pentagon, Laura Loomer. And you, meanwhile, the most consistent defender of these principles in the whole Congress, there's talk of funding a primary challenge to you to knock you out of your job. Like, what, how does that work? How does Laura Loomer get to be a Pentagon advisor, but you get primary? Like, what is, what is that?

• 1:02:13Speaker 07

  I don't know, I've never understood why anyone takes her serious. I mean, this is a woman that can't even legally buy a gun because she has such serious mental problems. She literally posted the other day that she blew blood vessels in her eye as she was hysterically tweeting, you know, like forty or fifty times in one day. Who listens to a person like that? Like, no one should. And there's only one thing she cares about, and that's Israel. It's non-stop Israel, non-stop. And that seems to be the overarching theme. And, you know, look, we always have to, you know, say our disclaimer. This isn't about Jewish people. This is about the government of Israel. This is about their military. And this is

• 1:02:56Speaker 07

  about them demanding, non-stop demanding, "America, pay attention to Israel. Do what Israel wants. Fight Israel's wars and pay for them." And if you don't, then we're going to come after anyone and everyone that gets in the way of that. And if you're wondering why people are talking about primaring me, well, it's because I don't take any money from AIPAC. I've called for AIPAC to be registered under FARA. I've introduced amendments to defund all of our American tax dollars from going to Israel every single year. Billions and billions of dollars every single year. But I've also done that for a slew of other countries. It's not just Israel. It's a whole bunch of other countries. Egypt, Ukraine,

• 1:03:40Speaker 07

  you name it. I'm just like, enough of the foreign aid. But if you're willing to step out and you're actually to say, "Hey, we're not MIGA, we're MAGA." And there's a major difference there, then there is a group of people that come at you with everything they have, and that's what they're doing. They've got bots attached to my account that load my comment sections with ridiculous lies. They've got paid social media influencers that literally get paid by Israel or by Israel-aligned donors to attack me constantly every single day. But let me tell you something, Tucker. People are too smart nowadays, and that's what's great.

• 1:04:23Speaker 07

  People have had it, and I think they learned a lot of lessons through COVID. They learned how to see through the lies and read through the propaganda. And there may be this like little flurry of attack on me that exists on X, you know, but out in the real world, that's not what I feel, and those are not the comments that I get. And I think that's the case for me. Not only me, but I also think that's the case for Thomas Massey. He has massive support in his district in Kentucky, even though it looks online like he is just the worst human being on the planet. But no, it's just not the case.

• 1:05:03Tucker Carlson?

  So Massey has gotten in a fight, like a personal fight with the president. Unfortunately, I think it has gotten personal. I should say, I don't agree with every... Massey's more libertarian than I am. But of all the members, other than you, of the Congress, I know, I know a lot of them, he's the most principled. He's also a thoroughly decent man, like actually. And his personal life, and I know a lot about it, is like one of the most impressive things I've ever heard. He is self-reliant in the most American sense. This is a guy who lives off-grid in a house he built himself. And every one of his votes is a vote on principle. So I don't know how you couldn't admire a guy like that. I get that he annoys the president personally, got it. But I don't think there are many people in the country

• 1:05:47Tucker Carlson?

  who live out Donald Trump's own stated principles more precisely than Thomas Massey does. What the hell is going on that he is a target, but Lindsey Graham has an endorsement? And by the way, I just want to say clearly, I will do everything I possibly can to make sure Lindsey Graham is not re-elected. Not because I like Lindsey Graham personally, he's a super charming, nice guy. But if Lindsey Graham continues to get elected, then the whole MAGA thing is totally fake. It's just fake. So like, what is this? Most coffee companies sell weakness, watered-down drinks from faceless corporations that don't care about you or your family. Black Rifle, which not to brag, is in this cup right here, is very different.

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• 1:07:11Tucker Carlson?

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• 1:07:21Speaker 00

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• 1:07:51Speaker 07

  I think that's a great question. You know, I, I love Donald Trump. I do. I love the guy. I sincerely say it all the time because I genuinely do. But I'll also tell you, I love Thomas Massey. Love Thomas Massey. Yes. He's one of my favorite members of Congress that I work with. You know, and, and Thomas Massey isn't always a no vote. That's a lie that's been told about him. I personally worked with him on a very important bill that we passed a couple of years ago. And he and I voted on something that we swore we would never vote on. And that was to increase the debt ceiling. But the only reason we gave our vote for that is because we traded it for something we wanted.

• 1:08:35Speaker 07

  And we stuck together on it. We wanted a 1% cut to the budget, just 1%. 1% and 1% is actually massive. And this was Thomas Massey's plan. He came up with it. And so I partnered with him and we went to leadership and we, we pushed it. And we said, listen, okay, you can get our vote for, for the debt ceiling increase that you want, that we didn't want to do. We don't want to have anything to do with that. We're conservatives, but we will do it only if you promise to put in the bill and one, a guaranteed 1% cut to the budget. And we were willing to do it. So we had another group of really conservative Republicans that were like, yeah, we want to do that, too. And so we did it. And guess what?

• 1:09:20Speaker 07

  That became law. It was a guaranteed 1% budget cut. And to me, someone that really cares about our national debt and the ridiculous amount of spending that happens in Congress year after year, I was like, this is actually a victory. But what people need to understand is that's the perfect example of Thomas Massey, and myself, too, and others, willing to work within the conference and willing to negotiate and willing to say, all right, I'll give you something you want, but you have to give me something that I want. And that's what he's capable of doing. And it was for the good, the good of the entire

• 1:09:59Speaker 07

  country. My God, a 1% cut in the budget that never, ever happens. But here, they lie about it every day, and they call him, oh, he's no on everything, and he won't vote for anything. And that's absolutely not true. And I am a witness, literally a living witness, to watching Thomas Massey work diligently within our conference among Republicans and saying, okay, I'll give you something you want if you give this to me. But it was so important, it wasn't for Thomas Massey, it's for, my God, for our children and grandchildren to actually reduce the budget and work on this national debt. And these are the stories

• 1:10:39Speaker 07

  I could tell many of these about Thomas. One of my favorite, Tucker, my favorite story about Thomas is when he actually stood up to the president. And it's quite a story because President Trump was so angry at him, and so was most of the Republican conference. And this is a story that I watched unfold on television, not because I was there in person, because I wasn't. I wasn't a member of Congress yet. But I watched it as an American citizen. And at that time, I was like, Thomas Massey is right. And it's when he forced

• 1:11:17Speaker 07

  Congress to go on record voting for the first gigantic, it was $5 trillion, basically a bailout, when the country shut down during COVID. And they were gonna let that bill pass, $5 trillion of spending. It's really what started wrecking our economy with high inflation. But Thomas Massey would not allow that to be passed by voice because Congress constitutionally owes it to the American people to do these things right. And so he went to Washington and demanded a roll call vote on that particular bill. And that was the first major fight that President Trump and Thomas Massey had. But I'll tell you, if I had been in Congress then, I would have been right there with

• 1:12:01Speaker 07

  Thomas because I fully agreed with him. Fully agreed with him. I was 100% at home, I was against the, the two weeks to slow the spread where they shut the country down. I was so angry about that. I've never been more angry in my life. And I was cheering Thomas Massey on at home, saying, yes, at least there's one person in Washington willing to, to say this is crazy and trying to stop it, but at least getting a recorded vote from Congress. And so there's a lot of stories like that, that unfortunately, maybe people don't know about Thomas Massey, but they should, Tucker. They absolutely should know those stories and, and I'll be happy to always tell them.

• 1:12:40Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I think there's an important principle here. I mean, and I just want to say again, I get why Trump is mad at Massey. And I'm sorry it's gotten personal and they're tweaking each other and all that stuff. But Thomas Massey, in the end, is one of the most powerful explainers of Trump's own ideas, of Trump's own platform, of the reasons Trump himself got elected president twice. He is, on the most basic bedrock level, one of Trump's truest allies. I know they're pissed at each other, but that's just true. And so you can't allow that guy to get knocked out. Again, I get why they're annoyed with him. But you can't allow him to get primaried by three huge billionaire donors who are not conservative, who believe in none of the five pillars of MAGA, who've worked against

• 1:13:25Tucker Carlson?

  them their entire lives. You can't allow that to happen because if you do, the nature of the movement, of the coalition of the party itself will change forever. And anyone who stands up for the, for the actual principles of MAGA will be destroyed. And that means it'll become what it was designed to replace, which is kind of Bill Buckley Republican Party, right?

• 1:13:51Speaker 07

  Right, no, you're right. And those three billionaire donors don't even live in his state or his district, so.

• 1:13:57Tucker Carlson?

  I don't think, they all live in America, actually, but whatever, yeah, no. I don't think they do all live in America, but whatever, I don't know, I'm not, you know, at their houses for dinner, but, um, so is Massey gonna lose? Is he gonna come close to, like, what's gonna happen?

• 1:14:13Speaker 07

  I don't think so. I don't think so. I, I have to tell you, I just, there, there was a sweet, really sweet moment, and I'm, I'm glad I got to witness it, it was after Thomas's wife Rhonda passed away, and you remember that?

• 1:14:28Tucker Carlson?

  I remember her well, yeah.

• 1:14:31Speaker 07

  Yes, and, uh, oh my god, Thomas, it was terrible. He was completely wrecked, totally wrecked as a, as a human, as a man, he just, it was one of the saddest things I've seen. And, um, you know, here's what's so special about Donald Trump, he called Thomas, and they had a very nice phone call, and I was witness to that phone call, and, um, I can tell you, that, that moved Thomas's heart, he was so grateful, literally so grateful, when President Trump called him and expressed his condolences and talked to him, and they

• 1:15:10Speaker 07

  just shared something so, so beautiful between human beings, um, just talking about a time when a man is completely broken because he lost his wife, and then President Trump did what he is so good at doing, why we love him so much, is he'll dive into a moment of brokenness, um, for another person, and that was, that was so great, and I, I tell you what, if those two men, if those two men actually... Could come together, our America First agenda would be unstoppable. Because Thomas Massey doesn't waiver in Congress and Donald Trump never waivers in the Oval Office.

• 1:15:53Speaker 07

  And that would be something that I would love to see happen, rather than these three big, rich donors that hate Thomas Massey because he won't vote for funding to Israel, instead of these three billionaire donors trying to take him out and lie to his district. And why is a Republican attacking a Republican? None of this should be happening.

• 1:16:14Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:16:15Speaker 07

  If they came together, I think it'd be an unstoppable choice.

• 1:16:19Tucker Carlson?

  I agree. Because the choice is Thomas Massey, a man of principle, a patriot, a truly decent person, a self-reliant American of the kind we need more of, or, you know, the kind of people who have just no regard for the country at all, who just, who use it like a disposable product, just don't care at all. And I would include, you know, Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz and Mark Levin. You can't have them take over. So where does this go? Like, where is kind of the victory for the actual MAGA people here?

• 1:16:55Speaker 07

  Well, that's something that the, so this will work out the way that it should. The people will get to vote. And in his district, they'll get to decide, are they going to be swayed by these millions and millions of dollars to put ads on television that lie about their representative that they've had for years? He's not new, he's been there for years. They know him very well. And they will actually get to decide if they want to keep him. And if they keep him, then that tells the political consultants that are just making money off of this whole thing. It'll basically be a big "F you" and "Screw you, you lost." And these billionaire donors, you don't get to buy a district, you don't get to tell

• 1:17:40Speaker 07

  a group of people that they can't have their representative that they have voted for over and over again. By the way, in the high 70s and 80%, he has voted in. You know, if that, if that happens, then I will tell you, Tucker, then... Our, our country is gone. If, if billionaire donors that literally put another country, another foreign country before our own, are able to buy a congressional seat, then the American people completely lose representation.

• 1:18:14Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:15Speaker 07

  And that would be the end.

• 1:18:17Tucker Carlson?

  That's assuming they have it now. I mean, seventy, about seventy percent, seventy percent, and this is across both parties, of members of Congress take AIPAC money. That's gone on for my whole life, as far as I know, but no one ever talked about it until this year. And now people understand what that is, if it's a foreign lobby, acting on behalf of a foreign government. And I just wonder, can that continue? Can people, I mean, like, will there be a town hall meeting with a member of Congress in the next year where that person isn't asked, like, why are you taking money from a foreign lobby?

• 1:18:49Speaker 07

  Oh, I think we're going to see that in this election cycle. It's already happening. I just saw that AIPAC is now trying to get donations to their, their politicians they support through back channels, not directly coming from AIPAC, so it doesn't show up on their FEC reports. That's a big deal, because people have had it. People are so sick of it. They don't want their elected leaders to be bought off for a foreign country, any foreign country, not just Israel, any foreign country. But they are so offended by AIPAC. And they're offended, you want to know why? They're offended because AIPAC doubles down. And they're offended because Mark Levin calls every single one an anti-Semite

• 1:19:34Speaker 07

  in every single name that he can sputter out of his hateful little face as, as he is so angry because people aren't bowing down and blowing up all of Israel's enemies. And, and it's like, and it's when Ted Cruz is, is losing his mind because people like me and you are just simply wanting to do what's right for our country and for our kids and our American businesses and our American border, and Ted Cruz can't take it. And it's, it's like, That has gotten so in the face of, just right in people's faces so hard that it's, the whole thing is breaking and falling apart. Like, this, this, this train has left the station, it's not coming back, especially with the younger generation.

• 1:20:18Speaker 07

  I know you talked to them, I guess that was yesterday, and I think you heard it firsthand. I hear it firsthand all the time. And it's even, it's not just the younger generation, though. It's, it's in the millennials, it's in Gen X, and it's even seeping into the boomers. But the whole propaganda machine that has been spoon-fed to Christians, whether it's in the pews at church, or Bible study, or coming through the television, or through their politicians' mouths, that we have to do everything for Israel, that's the only way we're going to go to heaven, America will be cursed if we don't. That whole lie is breaking apart. And thank God it is, because I, as a Christian, you as a Christian, we know there's only

• 1:21:02Speaker 07

  one way, and it's through Jesus Christ, He is our Savior. He died on a cross for us, He rose from the dead in three days. He is the one and only living Son of God, and He is seated at the right hand of the Father, and He's going to come again one day to judge the living and the dead. And that is the way you go to heaven. And that is the truth, and that is the light, and that is the only way that we should think and believe. And it doesn't come to bowing down to Israel, the government of Israel, or the military of Israel, or any politician. And, and the shaming, the shaming that we have received, and the shaming that carries on, is actually what is destroying them, completely destroying them.

• 1:21:45Speaker 07

  It's destroying not only them, it's destroying the social media influencers that are taking money, that it is destroying everyone that gets sucked into this great deception. And that's what it is, Tucker, it is a great deception, but thank God, people are waking up to it.

• 1:22:01Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I know the Israel's Foreign Ministry has paid a lot of people to slander me as a bigot, but I just want to be clear that the people I'm most upset with are not Israelis or Jews. They're Christian ministers, self-described Christian ministers who are preaching heresy. That really offends me. I mean, I understand Israel is a country that's seeking every possible advantage. It's a small country. It's 9 million people. It's an irrelevant country, really. And it's made itself relevant through pluck and aggression and violence and lobbying. And, you know, I kind of respect that in a way. You know, they're making their way in the world. You know, they don't have a lot, and they're trying, you know, to leverage everything that they do have. So I get it. I don't like it, but I get it, and I do

• 1:22:43Tucker Carlson?

  respect it in some ways. But what I don't respect, what I'm horrified by, is Christian ministers making excuses for the murder of Christians, or anyone else, actually, for that matter. And they should know better. It is heresy. It's misleading a lot of the best people in the country. A lot of the Christian Zionist evangelicals are like wonderful people, like wonderful people, like my favorite people, actually. And they've been completely brainwashed by this deception because their leaders are themselves brainwashed, or paid, or who knows what their motive is, but they're telling lies. And I really feel like they need to be called out above all else.

• 1:23:23Speaker 07

  I fully agree with you. As a matter of fact, I did a call last night with, and there was many Christians that are from the West Bank and from Gaza on the call. And they were being very honest about all the horrible things that they have been through themselves, and people they know have been through, and the abuse that they take from the IDF, and the abuse that they constantly take. And these are the atrocities that Americans, especially American Christians, need to understand. And it's real. It is constantly happening. I've heard from so many Christians in the West Bank about how they are attacked constantly

• 1:24:04Speaker 07

  by settlers. I've heard stories about how their Christian churches are attacked. I've heard stories about how Christians there have been murdered. And if, you know, we can put Hamas aside, if American Christians can't wake up to realize that, okay, hold on. We've been lied to and these things are actually happening and they can't analyze it of why they're happening and who is actually doing it, then they really are lost, they really are blinded. But these stories that I'm hearing and being told over and over again, it's not war propaganda and it is very, very real and it's some of the worst

• 1:24:46Speaker 07

  things happening in our lifetime. It's just like what's happening to Christians in Nigeria. There's real Christian persecution and it's happening in Gaza and it's happening in the West Bank and it cannot be ignored. And Christian pastors, most of all, should be the ones talking about it, not making excuses for Israel and demanding that the people in their pews donate their money and give their loyalty and give their obedience to the country that is inflicting these horrors on Christians. These Christian pastors should be the ones calling it out.

• 1:25:21Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. It's one of the most shameful things I've ever seen in my life and it's one of the things that offends me more than anything. So I hope they repent because I think it's really, really dark what they're doing. Last question, and this is just kind of a measure of where the movement is, MAGA, where the Republican Party is going, where the nation is going. Ted Cruz is planning to run for president for the Republican nomination in next cycle, next presidential cycle. Why, I mean, that's, look, you're in politics, I'm not. I think Ted Cruz is a sad, you know, needs to work on some personal stuff and is one of the saddest people I've ever known well. And it's unimaginable to me that he

• 1:26:05Tucker Carlson?

  would run for president. It seems like a joke, but he clearly believes it. Why does he believe he can get the Republican nomination, do you think? And does he have a shot?

• 1:26:15Speaker 07

  Well, first of all, Ted Cruz is from Canada, not Texas. So I think that is...

• 1:26:25Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you, Marjorie.

• 1:26:26Speaker 07

  Yeah, that's a disqualifying thing right there. And I will never, ever let it go. If he runs for president, I'll make sure I spend a lot of time making sure every American knows that he's from Canada and not from Texas. No, I'll tell you what's happening going forward. It is going to be, it's gonna be serious. People are not going to accept the standard Republican. People are watching everyone so close right now and they're in it. They don't realize that they're under a magnifying glass. Not only Ted Cruz, I'll even go to someone I very much like, J.D. Vance. He's under a magnifying glass and I don't know if he realizes it or not. I heard people talking about, "Why did he go to Israel this week? Why? Again, why is, why is he over there?

• 1:27:11Speaker 07

  He should be here." So there's people watching every single thing that any potential presidential contender is doing right now and watching what they're saying. And America voted for America first and they meant it. And right now, they're extremely angry. And I think that a lot of Republicans in Washington are so tone deaf to this, they don't even get it. But many Americans that voted for Republicans, gave us the House majority, gave us the Senate majority, and put our favorite president back into office, Donald Trump, they're mad. And they're, they're really, really mad. They're, they're stepping back, they're taking a hard look, and they're starting to be vocal about it. They are angry that, that everything costs so much.

• 1:27:56Speaker 07

  They're angry, angry that Republicans refuse to gauge and get engaged and finally build the off-ramp to get off of Obamacare that Democrats created 15 years ago. It's like, come on, solve the problem, finally. At least give a policy idea and do something about it. But these Americans that voted for America first, they meant it. And here's a warning to Republicans, and I can't say this loud enough. People are gonna sit it out. People are not going to show up and work for you and door knock for you and vote for you and give you money and sit there and hand you the majority and hand you full control

• 1:28:38Speaker 07

  over this country if you're not willing to actually deliver the agenda that the people demanded, that the people bought in, that the people are begging for. Screw the Democrats, they destroyed the country, absolutely destroyed the country. We had Antifa, BLM riots in 2020, we had ridiculous spending, COVID lockdowns, forced masking, forced vaccines, they torched education by forcing kids to stay home, weaponized governments against parents, against pro lifers, against J sixers. This is what the people absolutely remember. And so when they're looking forward to who they're voting for and who they're supporting,

• 1:29:17Speaker 07

  whether it's 2026 midterms or the 2028 presidential race, these are the things people are thinking about and they haven't forgotten and they want someone that they know and they can trust that is literally going to stick it out and finally deliver these things. Because right now they're mad about a $40 billion bailout to Argentina. They're really angry that our American cattle ranchers and beef ranchers are getting screwed and Argentina beef is gonna be sold into America. They're mad about a lot of things. They're really mad about a lot of things and they're sick and tired of the foreign countries constantly on television every single day at the White House. They don't wanna see a foreign leader there.

• 1:30:02Speaker 07

  And I love Donald Trump and I get to say these things because I love him so much, Tucker. I get to say these things and I get to tell the truth because when the MAGA train left the station, I was on it the entire time. And then when everybody bailed and jumped off on it, I got out and I helped push it up the fucking mountain, excuse my language, to get it to the top so that we could win and get there. And so I get to say when things are going sideways and when they're going wrong, I get to say these things and that's because my Job title is representative. That means I represent the people and nobody else. And, and you know what? I don't give a shit about Mark Levin or Ted Cruz or whatever, whoever, or somebody

• 1:30:46Speaker 07

  named, that has the name turd in their name, or some Israeli spy named Laura Lumer. I don't care about any of these people. They are irrelevant and mean nothing to me, absolutely. And you want to know something? They are the last people that, that Americans that worked hard are ever really going to trust and support. And so you ask me and I'm giving you my honest.

• 1:31:10Tucker Carlson?

  I, I should say, I think JD and his wife are over there trying to force Netanyahu to abide by the terms of the peace agreement, but I, uh, but I, I definitely agree that you see the stream of people going and wearing the outfit and, you know, getting their pictures taken at the wall and all that. And I, you know, it does seem like a humiliation ritual. It is a humiliation ritual, obviously. Um, it's a dominance, uh, exercise and it's, it's so humiliating to our, our, our country. I think that that should stop. Do you think, so have you taken this message to the White House?

• 1:31:45Speaker 07

  I've taken it as loudly and as I possibly can everywhere. I'm, I think the best thing for me to do is just to say it publicly. That's the best thing to do is to say it publicly. Everybody knows it. Everybody knows it. And me of all people, I can tell you, Tucker, I want, I want our team to be more successful than anyone, but I have a really hard time with my team standing on the sidelines, refusing to actually get in the damn game and play the game and deliver because I believe in offense. I do not believe in defense and the most. The biggest thing that disgusts me the most is actually sitting in out and refusing

• 1:32:29Speaker 07

  to even get out there, fucking play. Excuse my language, but I am so pissed off at Republicans right now. This country gave us a one-time chance. And I have given up a lot of great things in my life, and I see it right now, is you get in there and you get it done. And I don't want to hear another damn excuse if I have to watch another press conference with Mike Johnson up there bubbling around saying stupid political drama stuff. And then you have Leader Thune up there pointing his finger at Chuck Schumer, and Chuck Schumer's pointing it back at Thune. It's like, get the job done. This is, this is, everyone's so sick of the drama. It's so disgusting, it's so retarded, and everyone's over it. So Republicans need to get their shit together.

• 1:33:13Tucker Carlson?

  I can see why they're afraid of you, and I can see why so many admire you. Definitely, starting with me. So Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, bless you for what you said. I know how much you mean it, and thank you for explaining it so well. Great to see you.

• 1:33:29Speaker 07

  Thank you, Tucker. I appreciate it.

• 1:33:32Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you. And we'll be back next Wednesday evening, live at 6:00 PM Eastern. Thank you very much.

• 1:33:56Tucker Carlson?

  We've got a new website we hope you will visit. It's called newcommissionnow.com, and it refers to a new 9/11 commission. So we spent months putting together our 9/11 documentary series, and if there's one thing we learned, it's that in fact, there was foreknowledge of the attacks. People knew.

• 1:34:17Speaker 09

  The American public deserves to know.

• 1:34:19Tucker Carlson?

  We're shocked, actually, to learn that, to have that confirmed, but it's true. The evidence is overwhelming. The CIA, for example, knew the hijackers were here in the United States. They knew they were planning an act of terror.

• 1:34:29Speaker 10

  In his passport is a visa to go to the United States for America.

• 1:34:33Tucker Carlson?

  A foreign national was caught celebrating as the World Trade Center fell and later said he was in New York, quote, "to document the event." How did he know there would be an event to document in the first place? Because he had foreknowledge. And maybe most amazingly, somebody, an unknown investor, shorted American Airlines and United Airlines, the companies whose planes the attackers used on 9/11, as well as the banks that were inside the Twin Towers just before the attacks. They made money on the 9/11 attacks because they knew they were coming. Who did that?

• 1:35:05Speaker 11

  You have to look at the evidence.

• 1:35:07Tucker Carlson?

  The US government learned the name of that investor, but never released it. Maybe there's an instant explanation for all this, but there isn't, actually. And by the way, it doesn't matter whether there is or not. The public deserved to know what the hell that was. How did people know ahead of time, oh, I was no one ever punished for it? 9/11 Commission, the original one, was a fraud. It was fake. Its conclusions were written before the investigation. That's true, and it's outrageous. This country needs a new 9/11 Commission, one that actually tells the truth, that tries to get to the bottom of the story. We can't just move on like nothing happened.

• 1:35:47Speaker 10

  9/11 Commission is a cover.

• 1:35:50Tucker Carlson?

  Something did happen. We need to force a new investigation into 9/11 almost 25 years later. Sorry, justice demands it. And if you want that, go to newcommissionnow.com to add your name to our petition. We're not getting paid for this. We're doing this because we really mean it. Newcommissionnow.com.