Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Stupidity, & Other Threats To Democracy w/ Lisa! | The Tom Bilyeu Show LIVE

Welcome back to Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu. In this special live episode, I’m joined by my incredible co-host (and wife), Lisa Bilyeu, for a deep-dive on the intersection of politics, world affairs, and what’s really threatening democracy today. We tackle some heavy news—like Biden’s shock cancer announcement and the implications of Bernie Sanders admitting Democrats can be a threat to democracy. Of course, with Lisa in the studio, we also bring an unfiltered relationship lens to these societal issues, exploring why humans double down on dogma, how our childhood shapes genius, and if wisdom can ever outrun calcified beliefs. Plus, we get personal on the abuse of power, MeToo fallout, female agency, and where the law should (or shouldn't) intervene in manipulative relationships. SHOWNOTES 00:00 – Lisa joins Tom for a live hybrid show: politics, world affairs, and relationships 01:54 – NIH controversy: Covid origins, Wuhan, and walking out on tough truths 04:31 – The tragic story of Ignaz Semmelweis & the problem with “experts” 15:05 – Why social innovation often falls on the young 24:00 – Deep dive preview: Jekyll Island and conspiracy vs. incompetence 30:07 – Weinstein, Diddy, MeToo, and navigating moral nuance 34:31 – Abuse, power, and the line between legality and morality 1:07:00 – Why parental bias clouds judgment—and why you must think clearly 1:14:00 – Incentives, compassion, and the "final boss" of human nature 1:17:06 – New show format: how to engage deeper and where to watch live FOLLOW GUEST (Lisa Bilyeu): Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lisabilyeu/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/lisabilyeu Website: https://www.lisabilyeu.com/ CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS Vital Proteins: Get 20% off by going to ⁠https://www.vitalproteins.com⁠ https://www.vitalproteins.com and entering promo code IMPACT at check out Monarch Money: Use code THEORY at ⁠https://monarchmoney.com⁠ https://monarchmoney.com for 50% off your first year! Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at ⁠https://shopify.com/impact⁠ https://shopify.com/impact Netsuite: Download the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning at ⁠https://NetSuite.com/THEORY⁠ https://netsuite.com/THEORY iTrust Capital: Use code IMPACTGO when you sign up and fund your account to get a $100 bonus at ⁠https://www.itrustcapital.com/tombilyeu⁠ https://www.itrustcapital.com/tombilyeu Mint Mobile: If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at ⁠https://mintmobile.com/impact.⁠ https://mintmobile.com/impact DISCLAIMER: Upfront payment of $45 for 3-month 5 gigabyte plan required (equivalent to $15/mo.). New customer offer for first 3 months only, then full-price plan options available. Taxes & fees extra. See MINT MOBILE for details. What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business:⁠ join me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER⁠ https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business:⁠ see if you qualify here.⁠ https://tombilyeu.com/call Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox:⁠ sign up here.⁠ https://tombilyeu.com/ ********************************************************************** If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast,⁠ Tom Bilyeu’s Mindset Playbook⁠ https://open.spotify.com/show/47VE90Cittmo6TGGFqg2xf —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. ********************************************************************** LISTEN TO IMPACT THEORY AD FREE + BONUS EPISODES on APPLE PODCASTS:⁠ apple.co/impacttheory⁠ http://apple.co/impacttheory ********************************************************************** FOLLOW TOM: Instagram:⁠ https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/⁠ https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok:⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter:⁠ https://twitter.com/tombilyeu⁠ https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube:⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tom Bilyeu?

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• 1:09Speaker 01

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• 1:37Tom Bilyeu?

  What is up, everybody? Good morning. We are joined by a very special guest today. Elizabeth Bilyeu is in the house. Welcome.

• 1:46Speaker 02

  Hello, everybody. Good morning. I just set an alarm.

• 1:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, she did.

• 1:52Speaker 02

  I look like a child. When you go to the wide, I literally look like I need the booster seat.

• 1:58Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, you you may need a booster seat. That is not untrue.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  The pink pillows.

• 2:04Tom Bilyeu?

  That is not untrue, but everybody, welcome. It is wonderful to have you guys here today. Uh, we're gonna have a bit of a hybrid episode, so we have plenty of stuff to talk about in terms of the world of um world affairs, politics, AI, all of that good stuff, but we will, needless to say, venture into more relationship-y territory since we have my beloved wife here. Uh, but we're gonna be talking about Biden announcing his devastating cancer diagnosis, uh, which is rough for sure, but the curious timing is also part of this story that has to be taken into consideration. It will certainly be interesting to hear Lisa's take, because I don't think she has any idea uh that that's even happening.

• 2:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Bernie admits that the Democrats are a threat to democracy. That was pretty interesting. A very powerful clip that ties into something that I've been thinking a lot about in terms of uh, we all have to be honest about what is true. And man is political animal is true. And he just, it almost seemed like out of fatigue, he was just like, yeah, like, look, it is what it is. Um, the Democrats are just trying to force-feed people different candidates. We'll play that clip, but it's pretty crazy, but I loved it. And then the thing that probably wound me up the most is the NIH director says that COVID

• 3:30Tom Bilyeu?

  may have started in Wuhan and that the NIH may have paid for it. And a whole bunch of people that work at the NIH walked out because he dared to speak what he thinks is true. And I think that they need to do an investigation to figure out what is true. But man is political animal, does not care about what is true. They're tribed up. They want to go to bat for their team. They want to protect their identity.

• 4:00Tom Bilyeu?

  So I've done this deep dive episode, which I'm really eager for you to see.

• 4:05Speaker 02

  The one you just shot or the one you just released?

• 4:07Tom Bilyeu?

  The one we just shot, the one that I spent

• 4:11Tom Bilyeu?

  20 hours scripting.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  I have a idea how to make sure you.

• 4:15Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, please. If you're saying that you can make it faster, I will take.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  I've got some ideas.

• 4:19Tom Bilyeu?

  I will take.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  And so just for context, by the way, Drew is not here, so I'm sitting in for Drew.

• 4:25Tom Bilyeu?

  All very true. I don't even know why he's not here, by the way. He said as an offhanded comment, I'll be zooming in tomorrow. And I was like, I'm sorry, what? And he was like, oh shit, I forgot to tell you, I'm actually not gonna be with you tomorrow. Lisa's co-hosting, which is wonderful news. But I was like, this would have been a very surprising moment for me had he not made that offhanded comment last night. So going back to the deep dive that I wrote, the whole idea of the deep dive is that

• 4:56Tom Bilyeu?

  as a political animal, we fight for control. We have this, the, it will probably be titled, The Problem With Experts. And the problem with experts is that they'll tell you to sit down, shut up, stay in your lane. And they do it as a method to get control. It's not, I mean, look, part, it's very complex. Part of it is, of course, that they believe that they're right. But history has proven that that is such a dangerous way to walk through the world. And one of the stories that I tell in the deep dive is just one of the most devastating stories in all of human history, which is this guy named Ignaz Semmelweis, a Hungarian doctor. And he discovers germ theory.

• 5:38Tom Bilyeu?

  And he's working in this clinic. There's two clinics in the same building. One of them has a death rate that's five times higher than the other one. And so he realizes, oh, wait a second, I think this is because people are performing autopsies in the morning and then in the afternoons they deliver babies. And so there's something in that where they're transmitting something to the women. So I'm gonna have them use this special solution to wash their hands after they finish autopsies before they end up doing the.

• 6:08Tom Bilyeu?

  Delivering and the death rate plummets, plummets, goes from over 10% to under 2%. Just absolutely amazing. And you would think in that moment that people would just be like, oh my God, this is transformational. Ignaz, like you're the man, like, thank you. This is incredible. And they did the exact opposite. They blackball him. They push him out of medicine and he dies alone in an insane asylum. Because they just broke him. They just like chipped away at him over and taking his livelihood, his reputation, everything. And of course, 20 years of unrelenting data just proves that he was right. Like out of the gate. And my thing is, in those 20 years, how many more women died?

• 6:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Because these assholes were not willing to go, oh yeah, maybe it is me. Like people so take it as like an affront to their identity.

• 7:03Tom Bilyeu?

  They just shut down. Like they don't care about what is true. And when I was watching the, in fact, can we play the clip? Does anybody have access? Or is this going to be where we realize that? Okay, perfect. So it's the NIH.

• 7:21Tom Bilyeu?

  Jay Bhattacharya gets up. When you hear how he says it, what he says, you're like, wait, people walked out on this? So this is, this is what happens when people tribe up and they want to use.

• 7:40Tom Bilyeu?

  When they, their desire for control leads them to try to silence people.

• 7:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Because they don't like.

• 7:47Speaker 03

  It's possible. There's a lot of, a lot of controversy over this. I'm sure there's folks in the room would disagree with me. But it's possible that the pandemic was caused by research conducted by human beings.

• 8:00Speaker 03

  And it's also possible that, that the NIH at least sponsored that research.

• 8:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Listen.

• 8:06Speaker 03

  And if that's true. It's nice to have free speech.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 8:10Speaker 03

  Welcome you guys.

• 8:11Speaker 02

  That's not a few people. That's like the audience leaves. Empty house.

• 8:17Tom Bilyeu?

  It's not, it's not empty house. There's still a ton of people there, but.

• 8:19Speaker 02

  Well, it's.

• 8:21Tom Bilyeu?

  This is people showing that they don't care about finding the truth. What they care about is being right. What they care about is having their team win. And they see Jay Bhattacharya as a representative of Trump, who they're just, it, nothing matters after that point. And then also because this ends up pointing back at them, it's the same thing with Semmelweis. Is you've got people that are just like, I can't bear the thought. Like my ego will not even allow the thought that I could be the reason that these women were dying. And what triggers for them isn't even guilt or shame. It's rage. It's anger. It's to go on the offensive and to attack and to shut down.

• 9:03Tom Bilyeu?

  And so the punchline for me in the deep dive was how do people? Who are presumably aware of history? I mean, there's. Literally from the time of Socrates. You've got people saying the only wisdom is to know you know nothing.

• 9:22Tom Bilyeu?

  And despite that. They still find themselves saying, you need to shut up, sit down and listen because I know best.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so. You might be conflating two things because.

• 9:34Tom Bilyeu?

  How dare you?

• 9:37Tom Bilyeu?

  Somebody silence her.

• 9:39Speaker 02

  Switch to my Michael.

• 9:40Tom Bilyeu?

  This is, this is an injustice. What's happening right now? Doesn't she know I'm the expert? What's going on? Man, you invite your wife to one party and this is what you get.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  Let me explain because in that moment where people are walking out, why are people walking out? I literally have done so many episodes now on like emotions and triggers and things like that. So walking out, moving backwards, moving away from something is because you feel threatened. So when I see a bunch of people walk out, I don't necessarily think it's as conscious as what you are breaking it down. You hope that a lot of people are conscious in their actions, but I don't think that's actually what's happening. I think people are just like, oh my God, what's happening? The thing that I thought I could be supported by? The head of the NIH, NIH? Um, now that's the person that may be calling me out or calling the department out.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  I can't trust this person, the person I thought I could trust, the person that had my back, is now actually the person that maybe is bringing this threat to my life. So I have to distance myself, so I walk out. So it's all emotion. I don't think it has the cognitive understanding of what you just broke down.

• 10:49Tom Bilyeu?

  I agree fully that this is pure emotion. Um, I'm not saying this is what's running in their head where they're like, well, I know I'm to blame.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Oh, I thought it was.

• 11:01Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm saying it triggers their ego and it manifests as rage. It manifests as go on the attack. Now, if you're going to attack my argument, it's like, okay, if they're so locked in emotion, then of course they're never going to be able to say, oh, history proves that this is a terrible situation. And fair enough, but all you're saying then is humans are a dumb creature and they should be euthanized. And I'm not saying that, my wife is saying that. So, uh, you think that I'm conflating something? So when you say that I'm conflating something, do you think I'm actually mixing two things up? Or are you just saying that this isn't something that they're doing conscious? This is just pure emotion?

• 11:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, because the way you broke it down was just like, I don't understand why people can't just admit, oh, my God, I was wrong. And so when you showed the video, I was like, people just went all emotional. Oh, my God, get out, don't want to hear this.

• 11:55Tom Bilyeu?

  What do you think we do about that? Because this is running us to ruin.

• 11:59Speaker 02

  Um, God, here's the, here's the thing, I don't actually have an answer. But the one thing I will say is as you get older, you do become dogmatic. I find myself being dogmatic on the things I've been working on for the last 10 years. Like if someone comes to me with a YouTube thing and I'm like, bless, they have no idea. But the truth is they may actually know something that I don't. And I've just dismissed them because my research a year ago or my research two years ago proved that what they said was wrong. But the world changes. And so, but remember when we had, we had more, I'm going to be honest, we had more audacity when we were younger. Starting Quest, the experts were telling us, what are you doing? And now when we do things and someone says something as an expert, we pause more.

• 12:42Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, more to come, we'll be back in a bit.

• 12:47Tom Bilyeu?

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• 13:32Tom Bilyeu?

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• 15:03Tom Bilyeu?

  And we're back. Let's pick up right where we left off. So, okay, there is a quote that haunts me. Genius is a young man's game.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:13Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, I don't know. Hmm. It haunts me, rightly so. I think that the question that I'm trying to answer with my life is, is that necessary? Like, is there a way to escape that? Or is that a law, a fundamental law of the architecture of the human mind, such that no one escapes it? And I don't know, but what I think the mechanism by which it happens is you do things.

• 15:43Tom Bilyeu?

  They go awry. You build up scar tissue. You try something that works. You leverage that to tremendous success. And then you go, ah, this thing works, that thing doesn't. And that you build a mental scaffolding around that. And that mental scaffolding allows you to be successful in the world such that, and then your ego gets tied up in it and all of that. And then you're prone to defend that because there's so much reputational energy and success and history and all that tied up into it. And the things you tried and failed and all that, that people just cannot extricate themselves from that.

• 16:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, I feel like, um, I don't believe in meant to, but it's easy language. I believe that I'm literally the human meant to test that hypothesis because things don't solidify in my mind in that way. Sometimes very frustrating for me, um, but at the same time, I find it very easy to switch gears. I find it very easy to go, oh, that used to work, but it doesn't work for me now. I find it very easy to point myself at new things, to fall in love with new and interesting ideas. And I want to see if there's a final boss of this that is your childhood is everything.

• 17:03Tom Bilyeu?

  And it's entirely possible that your childhood is everything and there's no escape. Because you just have this frame of reference and disproportional emotional response to things you encountered when you were a kid. Now I'll give you an example. Unfortunately, Lisa's grandmother died from essentially complications of Alzheimer's. So we know this up close and personal. But when somebody has Alzheimer's, you can still play music from their childhood and it will like bring them back. And for a second, it's like, whoa, what just happened? Like you've really locked into something. And even people that are,

• 17:45Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't know if it works in a full vegetative state, but they're finding even people that they're like, oh, this person is completely gone. They don't have brain signals. If you play songs from their youth, like their brain will fire in a new way. So there's something about like things that you encountered when you were young. There's a great Stephen King line from the book, The Body, which got turned into the movie Stand By Me, where he says, you'll never have friends like the friends when you were 12. And I think that's brain development. I think that there's a period that you go through where you are drinking deeply from the culture, that your mind opens you to something uniquely in that period. And so if I want to change my neurochemistry, I can put on a song from my childhood. It will hit me harder than any other song that I love, but from any other generation.

• 18:30Tom Bilyeu?

  It just literally hits different.

• 18:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Because of that, I worry that we are all people of our time. And that genius being a young man's game is this one-two punch of people's thinking calcifies into dogma. They think they're an expert. You cannot learn when you think you already know, like all of that.

• 18:51Tom Bilyeu?

  And that everything you do and create will be an echo of your childhood. And if I'm right about another hypothesis, which is basically we have influence around people, call it 15 years younger. Than us and fifteen years older than us. So whatever that block is, those are the people that you're going to be the most compelling to. And as you get outside of that thirty year band, you start to feel alien. Like they just can't relate to the way that you interface with the world. So the way that you would phrase something in marketing copy, the way, the thing that you're trying to achieve, they would find very strange. And so I think all of that plays into this idea. So anyway, it's a very keen insight that you have around

• 19:36Tom Bilyeu?

  your own calcification. And the question is, can you break out of it?

• 19:41Speaker 02

  Well, so here's, I'm going to push you a little on this because your whole thing is, oh, my God, this is holding us back. We need to break out of it. The piece that maybe you're missing, I'm so sorry, someone wrote it because I was like, oh, my God, I was just thinking that I it's gone by. I don't know who it was. But wisdom is an old man's game. And so while you're trying to break out of it, there is something to wisdom. There is something to the wiser elder who has learnt the lessons. And it obviously, I assume from biology and from the caveman days that if you learnt that you touch that plant, it poisons you, your child dies, well, you better believe you need to remember that. And so it's been a very big survival mechanism for us for so long. And it feels like you're trying to do the opposite, but don't you think there is some use

• 20:25Speaker 02

  to the wise knowledge that you've had, that you've learnt these lessons through the hard knocks of life?

• 20:32Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, this comes down to the what are you trying to achieve? And my orienting mechanism is innovation. And so if I can't innovate, the only way to capture the imagination of the public is to do something new. And the innovation, hello, Mr. Rios.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Thank you, Eric. I was trying not to do, thank you.

• 20:56Tom Bilyeu?

  The innovation that

• 20:59Tom Bilyeu?

  Young people end up bringing to the market because they see something different is the very question I'm asking. Can I take my own belief system, turn it back into that jellyfish? For people that have never heard that, there's a jellyfish that quite literally lives forever. And the only way for it to die is trauma.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  Because it regenerates itself?

• 21:16Tom Bilyeu?

  It returns itself, basically, this isn't quite, this isn't literally correct. I don't know the science well enough, but this is directionally correct enough that I'll just use it. It turns itself back into a pluripotent stem cells. So it loses its form, its shape, but also its memories and all of that. And then it reconsolidates basically as a new jellyfish. And I want to know if there, one, is there utility in being able to do that in my own mind? Especially if I can do it in a controlled manner. But two, will I ever really ever be able to capture the context of that moment such that my window of influence actually shifts? And I don't know.

• 22:00Tom Bilyeu?

  So the final boss of all of that is that at least as of right now, there's so much signaling off of how somebody looks that you'll just write somebody off. You don't look close enough to me in age for me to listen to you. You're either too young or too old. And so people will just write them off. But AI is going to make it possible to look like anything. And so we'll see. I don't know, it is a very complex game. I will just say right now, at the level of what can everybody use? Be careful, you are in extreme danger of becoming

• 22:39Tom Bilyeu?

  dogmatic in that you're no longer mapping

• 22:46Tom Bilyeu?

  time of cause and effect that may not hold up anymore. And that is extremely dangerous, especially when you will fight, in some cases, literally.

• 22:58Tom Bilyeu?

  Over the validity of that snapshot in time. And this is why they say that science does not advance one insight at a time. It advances one funeral at a time. Cause you just have to wait for the dogmatic people to die. That's so, I fucking hate that. I really hate that, like in a deep and profound. It makes me want to scream into the void of humanity. Which honestly is what that deep dive is. That, that deep dive is me screaming until my vocal cords tear around. This impulse in the human animal makes life worse for a lot of people. And we're just living through a super weird moment right now.

• 23:42Tom Bilyeu?

  Heather, why?

• 23:44Speaker 02

  Oh, there was one that I really wanted to read out if you don't mind. Um, so, oh God, where did it go? Apologies, guys. I was trying to listen to you and pay attention to the chat. It was something about this basically doesn't matter once AI takes over. Um, oh no.

• 23:59Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, yeah, I mean, look, none of us know what the future is going to look like. When and if AI takes over, that is true. Uh, in terms of mentally mapping that now, I think the right mental map for that is meaning and purpose is the thing you need to focus on. Like, that's going to be the big problem that we have to solve. Just there will be a crisis of meaning when there is something that is better than you at everything that economically you're not necessary, that that engine just churns because of, uh, AI and then the one good that might come out of that from that perspective, because I think there's a way to the other side of it. But I think it's going to push people back into family units, intimate connections.

• 24:44Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, and that will have a beauty to it. Uh, but it will get weird. Now, I also think it will get wonderful, but it will get weird. No doubt about that.

• 24:54Speaker 02

  Oh, was that nice? It seems like some people want to talk about the healthcare system. I've been seeing a lot of comments in that. Um, you actually had something in your doc about healthcare. Uh, where was it?

• 25:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, we don't have anything about specifically healthcare, but on healthcare itself.

• 25:13Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm a lazy means.

• 25:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Primary question. Yeah, uh, is she coming back on your show?

• 25:18Speaker 02

  No, no, no. I just mean, I'm so excited that.

• 25:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, that she's, has she been confirmed?

• 25:22Speaker 02

  Has she?

• 25:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Does anybody know?

• 25:24Speaker 02

  Anyone know about Casey Means being confirmed? So she was on my show and when I heard the news, like, I've, in case people don't know, I've had the worst gut issues for like 10, 11 years. We've battled it. It's been so hard. It's changed um my health, my life. And uh, so having Casey on and talking about the messages that we've had, the food, the bad things in the food, I mean, just understanding it all is crazy. So having someone like her who can maybe change, I mean, that will have such a massive knock on effect, babe. That would be amazing.

• 25:57Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I mean, fingers crossed. This kind of stuff has to be sustained. And right now, what I worry about is that we're gonna be on a um whipsaw, where we go from the Democrats to the Republicans and back and forth. Uh, that makes it hard to get any momentum. It's not bad when you, both sides are really close to the middle. It becomes really problematic when you've got these extremes and they just spend the first, you know, whatever, month overriding the EOs from the previous administration. So that'll get to be a pain in the ass if we end up doing that. Jexter, um, the Jekyll Island thing is probably gonna take me a minute. Uh, when I realized how long it took me to write the problem with experts,

• 26:43Tom Bilyeu?

  I was like, oh, God, the Jekyll Island one is, is probably 40 hours of scripting. Oh, that's hard to even say out loud unless Lisa's right and she can show me uh what it is that I'm doing there. We will see, uh, but yeah, that, that is, that is unknowable at this point. But I will try to get that done over the course of two weeks. That isn't the next one that I'm gonna be writing, though. We've got, I think, two lined up before it. So one is basically taking your guys' biggest challenges to some of my ideas. And then I'll um address them individually. So I think Drew pulled like 15 of your guys' most vociferous uh pushback against me. Uh, and so that'll be fun. And then there's another episode that we were looking at.

• 27:26Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm forgetting what it is right now, but uh more on that. Yeah, I appreciate that, Jexter. I'm excited as well. Man, that book is really freaking me out. But one of the things that I need to do is figure out um what the, what's the mainstream consensus on the creature from Jekyll Island? And because the one of the areas of the book that I've really started to research is the sinking of the Lusitania and there is a way which so the Lusitania was a ship in 1915 that was sunk by German U-boats. And there are claims that the US State Department for sure, possibly all the way to the presidency, and Winston Churchill conspired, not that boat specifically, but there were a whole

• 28:09Tom Bilyeu?

  bunch of boats that they were doing this to, where they were trying to get a U-boat to sink a ship with American citizens on it so that Americans would join the war. And while it wasn't like they sunk it and then America was in the war immediately, they sunk it, it changed the US perception of the war and two years later, the US entered World War I. And so the way that it's presented in the book is like, oh my God, they intentionally killed Americans and Brits, quite honestly, a lot more Brits than Americans, but they intentionally killed roughly 1,200 people to get us into the war. And there's like secret communications and stuff where they just admit, they admit to

• 28:51Tom Bilyeu?

  the strategy, they don't admit that that that they targeted the Lusitania or anything like that, but they admit to the strategy would be useful. And then it ends up happening. So it's like, oh, like that feels like when you look at all the things that happened. And so one of the most important questions you can ask when looking at a theory is what do people who think this theory is stupid think? And so as I started going, okay, this Lusitania thing I found so compelling. I was like, oh my God, it's all a conspiracy, just like all the way down. So I was like, okay, people that think this is dumb, what, why do they think that? And so they just start going into, well, this part's been proven, this part's been proven, but like this is a pretty big leap, this is a pretty big leap.

• 29:35Tom Bilyeu?

  And so it's like, okay, it just comes down to what do you think are pretty big leaps? I'll be honest, almost certainly, this was not a master stroke of like, we're going to get the Lusitania, but it really does seem to be that there are a bunch of choices that can work out in two ways. So Lusitania starts as a passenger ship.

• 29:57Tom Bilyeu?

  But they retrofit it to carry like bombs, munitions. And in retrofitting it, because you're making it heavier, you've got to beef up the engines. In doing that, they knew to a U-boat, it will sound like a military vehicle. And so they're like, well, that's bad. Actually, is it bad? Because we either get the munitions now that we can send from the US to the UK. That's a win. Or they blow it up, but it's only secretly carrying munitions. And so if they sink it, we can just say that it didn't have munitions, which is what they did. Not thinking 40 years later, divers are just going to go down and be like, no, there were six million rounds of munition on this ship.

• 30:39Tom Bilyeu?

  So I have a feeling that it's more like that, that rather than mustache twirling people doing evil things, it's Churchill going, uh, this is rough. We're in a bad spot. We need America's help. We've already got this high risk thing going on where I need munitions. If I make these decisions that in my calculus, I otherwise might not make, but I see that this creates now two avenues of success. One where I just keep safely getting all my munitions and I hide behind the fact that there are civilians at risk. And then one where the civilians die and they become the clarion call that gets the

• 31:24Tom Bilyeu?

  US into the war. So it's like, I can't really lose anymore. And we might look at that and go, okay, that's disgusting and how dare you. And that's grotesque. But when you think of the bloodshed that was going on in World War I, it's like you would want it to end. So I think that is the most realistic look at human nature, that anybody that tells you you're a conspiracy theorist for looking at that and being like, yo, I've got questions. This is crazy. Like, I'll give you another one. Hold tight, we're going to take a quick break.

• 31:57Tom Bilyeu?

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• 32:39Tom Bilyeu?

  My link gets you an exclusive 30 days free instead of the usual 14-day trial. There's no credit card payment needed. Just head to pipedrive.com/impact to get started. Again, that's pipedrive.com/impact and you can be up and running in minutes.

• 33:00Tom Bilyeu?

  And we're back. The Brits knew that there were U-boats in the area. And they told the ship to go into that area. The specifically to change course and go into the area where they knew the U-boats were. They told the boat to slow down, which would make it easier to hit. It was supposed to have an escort. It got pulled back. So I mean, it's just like, oh, bro, this is either the most unlucky ship in all of human history. Or it just, they kept stacking things to like, we need one of these fucking things to get sunk. And then it finally happens. Crazy.

• 33:39Speaker 02

  So you read so much. The way you talk about it is so passionate.

• 33:45Speaker 02

  For anyone that wants to know things that happen behind the scenes. Anytime I'm hanging with my girl group, you'll come in and they're like, hey, Tom, what are you doing? You're like, well, I'm reading this book on, you know, something. And then for the next 10 minutes, you're telling this big group, girl group, who's all giggling about the horrors of the world in history. And so every time you leave, everyone looks at me, they're like, we're about to have nightmares, Lisa. I was like, imagine my life. But here's the truth. You learn so much, you read all the time and you really make these connections between the stories and things that happened in the past and having an idea of what's happening right now in the future. So anyone at home who thinks that this should be a show, I really have been pushing you that this needs to be a show.

• 34:26Speaker 02

  Where you talk about the past, the things that you're reading and correlate it to the things that are happening now in the way that we can learn from it. That was just like my little pitch to everybody.

• 34:35Tom Bilyeu?

  As my wife constantly reminds me, there are only so many things that you can do.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  I know, I think this would blow up.

• 34:41Tom Bilyeu?

  And so, yeah, that's just a question of timing. King Tut, by the way, we are, and this is another thing. It'll be based on when we can justify it, but we are talking to Spotify about using their space to do an AI entertainment thing in LA. So keep your eyes peeled. I know, I don't think you live in LA, but if you do.

• 35:03Speaker 02

  So I read a comment, by the way, this is purely selfish because I was like, what? I don't know if you've heard anything about it, but Joey said, can you speak on Harvey Weinstein and Candace Owens interview? It's pretty clear that he's not guilty.

• 35:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, so I, I am at the, I'm at the periphery of this, so I will have to check it out. I'll give you the pitch from her position. I'm not, yes, I'm not saying I know anything about this. I have done absolutely no research myself. But yeah, this is definitely like, now let me tell you the kind of content you should be doing. You should be reacting to stuff like this because this is specifically about predatory males. So this is like literally up your alley. So if you were doing, I want Lisa to do a live show. Yeah, by the way, Lisa's doing coverage on Diddy stuff, some of her most successful content ever.

• 35:56Tom Bilyeu?

  You guys should definitely be checking it out. I think she's taking a very unique approach, which instead of just being sort of the gossipy angle. It's like, how do we help women recognize signs of predatory males?

• 36:07Speaker 02

  Because there is another Diddy in waiting.

• 36:09Tom Bilyeu?

  I have a bad feeling there's another Diddy in action.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  I know, that's why everyone keeps responding.

• 36:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, it's terrifying. So anyway, again, I'm not super close to this. I've heard her talk about it very little, but it goes something like this.

• 36:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, give it to me.

• 36:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Harvey Weinstein is a bad man who did very bad things. But he became a scapegoat for the Me Too movement. And everybody just ended up dumping things on him. He certainly used power to get laid, but he is not a rapist. That is, I think, a honest reflection of her take. So she, I think, would say, if you're expecting me to defend Harvey, you're gonna be very disappointed because I think he's a moral degenerate. I think that he is like completely, he's done things that are too horrible to excuse. But what he was convicted of is not real.

• 37:07Tom Bilyeu?

  And so I think there's gonna be, there's gonna be a few high-profile things like this. So you've got the Daily Wire that is doing a legal challenge for Derek Chauvin, the guy who was convicted of killing, um, oh my God, I can't believe I'm blanking on his name.

• 37:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Everybody, uh, yeah, Black Lives Matter. I mean, this was the thing that kicked us all off. And anyway, for kneeling on his neck, cannot believe I'm forgetting his name. George Floyd, Jesus, thank you.

• 37:43Tom Bilyeu?

  So Derek Chauvin is being defended by the Daily Wire. Like actually, they're trying to get him a new trial, is my understanding.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  Harvey.

• 37:55Tom Bilyeu?

  No, no, no.

• 37:55Speaker 02

  Oh, so, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.

• 37:57Tom Bilyeu?

  So I'm saying there's a thing happening right now.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 38:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Where there was a period of, call it social reckoning, where you've got Harvey Weinstein kicks off the Me Too movement, and that just sort of burns through culture. You have the Black Lives Matter movement that burns through culture. And so now you've got people going, hold on a second. Not saying these people are good people, but I am saying that the thing that they went to prison for is not real. And so we've got to be careful. This is not me saying this. I've not looked at this shit. I have no idea.

• 38:31Tom Bilyeu?

  But you've got those two for sure, and I would hasten to bet that there will be more. So and they're just saying that we were in like witch hunt mode. And so the likelihood that we gave people fair trials is effectively zero is their stance.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  I mean, look, there's so much in between. I need to do more research, especially on the Weinstein case. But the amount of women, me too, that I've been on the train, on a bus and a guy walks past and just grabs your ass.

• 39:04Tom Bilyeu?

  Like, it's so crazy.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  The amount of women that have had that experience, I, when I was 12, I had a guy flash me in the park.

• 39:11Tom Bilyeu?

  Whoa, oh, you've told me that before.

• 39:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, I told you that.

• 39:13Tom Bilyeu?

  That, um, why, yeah, anyway, keep going.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  So there, there were just all these things that for so long were painted as it's just men. That's just how it is. And I think for the Me Too movement, it was just women saying enough, like enough Harvey, you can't use your bloody power anymore. You can't threaten my, my livelihood and my dreams and my desires and the things that you've promised me. Your, it's, it's this such deep seeded seediness that comes with it that he absolutely abused it. So, yes, there is a very fine, there's that line where you cross where it's actual rape. So I need to do again, my research, but it's not okay to just grab women. It's not okay to use your power as a manipulation tactic.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  It's not okay. And sorry, I could get on my high horse about this. I don't know if you want to go down that rabbit.

• 40:04Tom Bilyeu?

  I mean, it's, I mean, it's interesting. I'm perfectly happy to, given that you're here and you'll be able to give us a unique take on something we otherwise wouldn't get a chance to talk about. But, uh, this is obviously a very complex topic. Let me back up and ask you. If you allow monkeys, they've actually run this study. If you allow monkeys to do things for pay. So they get grapes.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:33Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, the first thing that male monkeys will spend that money on is sex.

• 40:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Is that okay?

• 40:43Speaker 02

  The monkeys?

• 40:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  I mean, they're monkeys, so.

• 40:47Tom Bilyeu?

  So they get a pass because no prefrontal cortex?

• 40:50Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 40:50Tom Bilyeu?

  So you have the impulse, nature clearly built that in for a reason. But humans, what makes you special is you have the ability to override that mechanism.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  Um, I think you should absolutely override that mechanism. Think about infidelity, cheating, so.

• 41:08Tom Bilyeu?

  So is just paying for sex the problem?

• 41:12Speaker 02

  As humans?

• 41:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes. Well, I wanna, I wanna walk step by step to find where you draw the line.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 41:19Tom Bilyeu?

  Like for me, paying for sex is not problematic at all.

• 41:23Speaker 02

  Humans.

• 41:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes.

• 41:25Speaker 02

  Just making sure.

• 41:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Monkeys too.

• 41:26Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 41:27Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I get it.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  As long as the person they're paying isn't coerced, isn't.

• 41:33Tom Bilyeu?

  They're gonna be in a desperate situation.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Isn't.

• 41:35Tom Bilyeu?

  No, not no one, I'm sure there are people, but I think the default assumption.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  Choosing to do this because I want to provide for my family.

• 41:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I'm not talking about somebody being trafficked.

• 41:45Speaker 02

  There's a pimp who I owe money to and he's on the corner. And if I don't make this deal, then he, my life's in threat. Like, to me, that's.

• 41:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Let's just say a brothel. Remember there was that show about the brothel?

• 41:58Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. The show was so good. Did anyone see that show?

• 42:03Tom Bilyeu?

  Called The Bunny Ranch, I think.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  The Bunny Ranch, well done. Oh, God. Whoo, we're getting, um, hmm. So I think as a woman, you should have free will. So if you decide you want to give your body over because of any desperation that you're feeling, it is not my place to tell you you shouldn't.

• 42:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so paying for sex, we're good as long as they're not, uh.

• 42:28Speaker 02

  Coerced, forced, threatened, manipulated.

• 42:32Tom Bilyeu?

  Ooh.

• 42:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Manipulated is tough. Because when does it become manipulated? You manipulate me all the time.

• 42:39Speaker 02

  Yes, um, but just like money and power, it could be used for good or evil. So there is manipulation.

• 42:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so manipulation is fine, just not if it's for evil.

• 42:49Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 42:49Tom Bilyeu?

  God, I could really take us into weird places. I don't know how far to go down this rabbit hole, but I find this interesting.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, let us know if you find this interesting.

• 42:57Tom Bilyeu?

  I have a feeling that I could get my wife's brain to skitch out. Because I will take you to places where you're gonna be like, wait, I don't know.

• 43:04Speaker 02

  That's known as my marriage.

• 43:06Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, this is a.

• 43:07Speaker 02

  This is behind the scenes of the sort of things we really do talk about.

• 43:11Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, yes. Now, uh, Brian Root is saying this is, that is this show and why I listen. So I'm guessing some people are saying that they hate what we're talking about right now. And our beloved Brian is defending us. Uh, but yeah. Yes, we're gonna talk about it all. Okay, keep going.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  Um, I can't remember what I'm saying now, but it goes back to the question. So we were having a discussion in one of your episodes about, uh, OnlyFans. And you basically said, do you agree or disagree? And I said, it, it is all in circumstance because I've done so many episodes on the toxic man. And so when you are in an abusive relationship and there's people, I mean, women literally have come up to me saying, my husband used to beat me, abuse me, um, wouldn't allow me to sing or dance in the house. Like, that's how bad it would get. And this one woman had four children and she wasn't allowed to sing and dance. I did an episode on the toxic man and she was like, I finally realized I could actually leave. Like, you gave me the belief that I could leave.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  And so I realized what he cares about was status and money. So I left the house, I left all the cars and I just took my kids, got this tiny one-bedroom apartment and Lisa, the very first thing we did is we sung and danced in that apartment.

• 44:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Wow.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  That filled my heart. So now let's go back to OnlyFans. If you're in that scenario and the only way to get out to earn enough money so that you can save, so that you can escape, because these are real world scenarios, then yeah, do an OnlyFans account if that's what you need to do to make yourself feel safe. So I think that in, there's a lot of like, this is bad, this is good, we should, we shouldn't do that. Um, as a woman though, I think that you should have absolute autonomy over your body and your decisions.

• 44:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I agree. This is where manipulation becomes such a weird sticking point. Because either I, the way that women are often talked about in this discussion is as if they are children. And they cannot think for themselves and they cannot push back and they can't say this is what I'm for and physical is different because men are bigger and stronger on average. And so, physical coercion, obviously, just completely out of the question. But what are we saying when we say that that men have such powerful mind control over women that they can get them to do anything and women don't have agency? That strikes me as super weird. If everybody's of age, obviously, I am assuming that that is true.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  I mean, I think that, let's take the Diddy and Cassie scenario. One of the big things, the reason why unfortunately it worked, quote unquote, is because she was so young. So

• 45:45Tom Bilyeu?

  How old was she?

• 45:45Speaker 02

  She was nineteen.

• 45:48Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so at what age would you?

• 45:50Speaker 02

  Older than her.

• 45:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Sure. At what age, though, do you think people, okay, now we're gonna hold you responsible for the decisions you make?

• 45:59Speaker 02

  It's so more complex than that, though, babe. It's not so

• 46:02Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm happy. Break it down. What's the complexity?

• 46:06Speaker 02

  That there is something called coercive control.

• 46:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Sure.

• 46:10Speaker 02

  That currently isn't legal, sorry, isn't illegal in a lot of states.

• 46:15Tom Bilyeu?

  And you think it should be?

• 46:16Speaker 02

  A hundred percent, yes.

• 46:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  And that's it. I think coercive control should be illegal because it's abuse of the mind. So going back to

• 46:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Let me make a statement.

• 46:26Speaker 02

  Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt. It's absolutely false. It set every young girl up for failure. Because words absolutely do hurt. So now there's the difference between, oh, he didn't hit you, then you're fine. But there is a psychological abuse that goes along with it that isn't illegal and you can't see it. So I am fighting for, I think it should be illegal. There should be things that need to protect women that even if you're nineteen. Babe, if I was eighteen, nineteen, and I came to America and I got invited to a P Diddy party, do you think I would have gone?

• 47:01Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  A thousand percent. If I got invited to the back room of a P Diddy party, because it's like, this is the private party, I would have gone.

• 47:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes.

• 47:07Speaker 02

  So now, eighteen, you know me, your wife, your wife.

• 47:11Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 47:11Speaker 02

  Eighteen years old, I go to a P Diddy party. Do you think it's okay to have that type of coercion?

• 47:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, where they're saying, hey, you get invited into the cool stuff and you can do this. But at any time, you can decide whether you're going to go back or not.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  Yes, but it becomes more complex than that because I go back and they persuade me to have alcohol. They then persuade me to do drugs and then it just spiraled.

• 47:38Tom Bilyeu?

  So I would say that they, anybody who is um, trying to get somebody to do something that that person is going to regret, that's like knowing.

• 47:52Speaker 02

  That's coercive control.

• 47:53Tom Bilyeu?

  No, bear with me. If somebody is trying to do something to knowingly get you to do something that you will regret, this is different than a girl sleeps with a guy and then is like, oh, God, what did I do?

• 48:02Speaker 02

  Yes, very different.

• 48:03Tom Bilyeu?

  But if you're like, I know this person is going to regret this, I'm gonna do it anyway because I'm a sociopath, that makes them evil. But, but I don't see anything illegal unless they are, like if you lie and you give somebody a drug and you say that it's one thing, but it's really something else, that's a crime as far as I'm concerned. Uh, if you are intimidating them, uh, that's a crime. So I wanna set all of those things aside and I'm just talking about at each moment, a person has the ability to make a decision. The person putting them in that shitty situation is, depending on what the situations are, is evil. Like, let's be very clear. There's a difference between that person is morally

• 48:46Tom Bilyeu?

  repugnant and what do I think should be illegal? Because it comes down to whether you think people can think for themselves or not. Now, I'll put myself in that situation and I'll be very curious to see if you think that this is just a difference between men and women.

• 49:02Tom Bilyeu?

  But every path that I've gone down in my life, good, bad, or indifferent, were my choices. Clock it from 18. And from the time I'm 18, you can look at what I've done and be like, okay, did somebody have control over your mind? And I would say, no, I, I don't even want that frame on me. Even if somebody was able to outthink me, outsmart me, all of that, I have agency. I made those decisions. I gave myself over to whatever. And so I hold myself accountable to those decisions. Again, clock it at 18. You come of age. You can be so young that, yeah, it just, you don't have the brain power to resist.

• 49:43Speaker 02

  Sure, 18 is fine.

• 49:44Tom Bilyeu?

  But.

• 49:47Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't understand people who give over their agency because it's like, well, but I really wanted that thing. That's the life. Again, the person using that thing to tempt you and get you to do bad things, they're a bad person. But that doesn't mean that you don't have the ability to say, I'm not going to do this. And so, go ahead.

• 50:09Speaker 02

  You have a very strong frame of reference that has absolutely served you. It is a very powerful way of thinking. You have used that to your advantage to become successful. But just like you have a frame of reference, understand that yours is the frame of reference. You think at 18, you've got a choice. No one forces you. It is so much more complex than that. It is like me saying to you, why can't you draw? Just look at, just look at the thing. Like you just do this one line and you're like, oh my, you see the world differently than I do. So the one thing that I would push back on is it has served you. It is an amazing way of thinking. It's the thinking that I've adopted. But I think you need to see the lens of what it's like for an 18 year old girl

• 50:53Speaker 02

  and how what you just broke down isn't the same. It's not as easy. It doesn't, it's not even easy. They haven't been taught that. So just like I can look at a piece of art and go, oh, I can draw that. And you're like, you're crazy. I look at this and go, you just don't understand what it's like to not have that frame of reference, to not feel like that, to have been traumatized your entire life as a child when you're five years old and you've been told that you're no good and you're eight years old and

• 51:19Tom Bilyeu?

  So how do you want to deal with that? The law gets involved?

• 51:23Speaker 02

  Yes, I think that's where I think it becomes coercive control needs to be a law in every state so that it

• 51:31Tom Bilyeu?

  That is gonna go so wrong.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  I mean, look, there's

• 51:33Tom Bilyeu?

  And by the way, the people saying that your brain doesn't stop developing till you're 25, I totally agree with you. Uh, was a little surprised at least it didn't want to slide the age to 25.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  I mean, that too, but there's so much complexity. So like, for instance, David just wrote in the comments, women being accountable. It's like,

• 51:51Speaker 02

  You've missed the point.

• 51:52Tom Bilyeu?

  No, he hasn't.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  Yes, he has.

• 51:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Hold on, hold on, hold on.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  Because if you're.

• 51:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Time, time. Let me, let me just say this. He may be wrong, but he's not missing the point. That to me is the point. That's what we have to decide. And we have to say either at eighteen, twenty-five, thirty-five, fifty, whatever the age is. But we have to be able to say ultimately, the law becomes hyper-specific. And what I worry about is a vague thing like coercive control. And now, uh, if you guys haven't seen Gone Girl, watch Gone Girl. I'm not saying all women, obviously. Women are some of my favorite people. You are literally my favorite human.

• 52:33Tom Bilyeu?

  I have never met somebody who I like as much as you on, across a gazillion dimensions. But Gone Girl's a real thing.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  I don't remember what happened.

• 52:42Tom Bilyeu?

  Women will savage your reputation. They will, they, hold on, hold on. They, they are cunning.

• 52:51Speaker 02

  Why compare?

• 52:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Let me, let me finish.

• 52:52Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 52:54Tom Bilyeu?

  They are not stupid. Some are, but I'm just saying, take, take, bear with me. They're sharp. They are cunning. They played an evolutionary role, which was to whisper into the man's ear. Go kill that guy. Go ask for this thing. Go make that demand. The, these are not, uh, from an evolutionary standpoint. These delicate little frail things left in the corner.

• 53:22Speaker 02

  I'm not saying it.

• 53:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Given that, people need to understand that there is a type of savagery that comes from women as well. And if you build laws around coercive control that make believe that women do not also have a, uh, ability to be an absolute savage.

• 53:44Speaker 02

  But that's not what I'm saying. It's like saying, you've killed this person. So let's, um, not ignore the fact that you could kill, you could go and kill someone. Sure, doesn't make it okay. So with coercive control, there's so much that goes with it. That is seedy manipulation, um, deliberate. And if you're a young girl, you just don't see it coming. It's like, so going back to this accountability thing. It's like saying, and let me know if I'm derailing, guys. I just feel very strongly about this because I'm covering the Diddy stuff. It's like saying a woman was sexually abused, raped.

• 54:20Speaker 02

  And someone turned around and go, but what was she wearing? But what time was she out? Was she down a dark alley? That's the response people give for the accountability. It's like, okay, as a woman.

• 54:33Tom Bilyeu?

  That's a straw man.

• 54:35Speaker 02

  What do you mean?

• 54:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Aggressively. I'm not saying that people don't say that. But anybody with even half a brain, you're never gonna, that one would not be on your mind because a woman should be able to walk down the street nude.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  And Cassie should be able to go to a party and not get emotionally and mentally abused to the point where she ended up having to do all the crazy stuff that she did.

• 55:00Speaker 02

  So I can, I can go down a rabbit.

• 55:01Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, we have to, you have to split. I mean, I've, I find this incredibly interesting, but you have to split between the morality and the legality. Again, guys that are manipulating and doing something that they know this person will regret because they want to get what they want. Guys that want somebody under their control and so they will damage their self-esteem. That's morally repugnant. And it makes me wish I believed in God because I want someone to judge that person. But from the laws standpoint, I think that that is, that is so vague and so nebulous that to create that is to create a legal weapon.

• 55:43Speaker 02

  You're saying coercive control is illegal?

• 55:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, I haven't looked at the definition of coercive control. Like there would have to be hyper specifics.

• 55:51Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 55:51Tom Bilyeu?

  But like, I can't even, so for me,

• 55:56Tom Bilyeu?

  if somebody came to me and said, Tom, listen,

• 56:01Tom Bilyeu?

  in fact, I'll make it harder.

• 56:02Speaker 02

  Someone just said, this woman is crazy. Ryan, you're talking about me?

• 56:06Tom Bilyeu?

  I would assume probably.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  For the nanny state.

• 56:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, Ryan is talking about you. Where you want the government to take care of everything.

• 56:13Speaker 02

  No, you really missed the point.

• 56:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Ryan, this woman isn't crazy. On further inspection, I think you will find that she's very smart, very thoughtful. You disagree and I think that's wonderful and we definitely want to find smart, well-intentioned people to have these kinds of debates. One, if there are cobwebs in our own thinking, we want those cleared out.

• 56:39Tom Bilyeu?

  But also it will give us a chance to sharpen our own thinking. So, okay.

• 56:46Tom Bilyeu?

  Where this gets tricky for me is that I don't think that you're drawing a distinction between morally repugnant and this should be illegal.

• 56:58Tom Bilyeu?

  If going back in time, let's say when I was 26, we'd just gotten married and I felt a desperate need to make you wealthy. If somebody had come to me and said, listen, I'm gonna get you hundreds of millions of dollars to build your film empire. You won't even have to go down this crazy entrepreneurial route and do business for 25 years. I'm just gonna, we're gonna make it happen for you.

• 57:27Tom Bilyeu?

  But you are gonna have to do a little light rape. I'd be like, get the fuck out of my face. Under no circumstance, this is horrifying. I'm piecing the fuck out. Now, of course, they would never be that blatant. They're gonna try to walk you step by step. But if you have like a mental set of values, you just go, yeah, I don't do that. So fuck, this sucks because I really want that thing, but I would like to earn my own respect more and so I'm out. And what I'm saying is, who has the responsibility to build that mental model? Is it, and this is why they're saying you're part of the nanny state, is it that the government is like, you're never gonna do it, bless you, no responsibility, like, we'll take care of you?

• 58:12Tom Bilyeu?

  Or do people have a responsibility to say, I have to know the difference between right and wrong? And at some age, I'm very open, what age people wanna pick? But at some age, we're now gonna say, you have to be responsible for your life. If you don't like 18, then what's the age? At what? But if you're gonna say at 18, you're still a child, then we need to own. We're saying you're still a child. You can't think through the world well, that you don't have the ability to stand up. Now, here's the really bad news. I think that this is a one-two punch of intellect. Some people just don't have the level of intelligence. But yo, I, I cannot, it, I have an intuition that something goes morally very wrong when you start going, you're not smart enough, you are smart enough.

• 58:58Tom Bilyeu?

  That strikes me as a disaster. Uh, and then the other part of this is, um.

• 59:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Your childhood matters so much, it's terrifying. And so to your point, if that person was abused when they were younger, they now have a mental model that makes them hyper vulnerable. But at some point, you still have to say, I think, this person is now an adult and they are responsible for their life.

• 59:25Speaker 02

  Okay, so there's so much to that. So first of all, I think it absolutely is a responsibility for parents to teach young girls this stuff. This is why I'm covering the Diddy stuff because I just think, like Cassie, she wasn't taught it. So you go to school, you learn math. You don't learn coercive control. You don't learn how someone can actually manipulate you to do something that you don't want to do. You, I wouldn't have understood that younger.

• 59:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, you have your finger on a real problem.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  So teach the young girls how to do that.

• 59:57Tom Bilyeu?

  Love that.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  Teach them. So number one, just like with murder, people should know better, but you have people that don't. So you have a law. So you have a law, can I just finish, please? So you have a law that says, hey, even if you want to, you can't. That's the government. So I'm not sure why all of a sudden I'm part of a nanny state.

• 1:00:16Tom Bilyeu?

  In fairness.

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  I'm saying the government should put a law in, just like rape, just like murder, for coercive control.

• 1:00:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Right.

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  The other side, just like we've been taught, right or wrong, women should be taught about coercive control. So now you've got the two sides. We're coming together. You're like, okay, this is the education. This is how young girls spot the signs before they get trapped. And then also there's a law over here that for some people, who's hard for them to control, maybe the law will protect them. Uh, protect.

• 1:00:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Here's, here's why I think that is a terrible fucking.

• 1:00:48Speaker 02

  Wow, what's terrible? Which part?

• 1:00:50Tom Bilyeu?

  That you should put a law in around coercive control. Now, part of this is theater because I don't know enough about coercive control. So when this is clipped out of context, I will point people back to this moment where I say, uh, part of this is theater with me testing an idea, but.

• 1:01:07Tom Bilyeu?

  You're gonna have, once you give something a name, then you make it pathological. And so when you start saying, oh, this person's a narcissist. Now all of a sudden, everybody's a fucking narcissist. And everyone just crams people into that bucket.

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:21Tom Bilyeu?

  What's gonna happen is you're gonna have a dominant, aggressive male, and people are gonna say, oh, that's coercive control. There have been people, and you know this is true, that have said, you need to be rescued from me.

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 1:01:33Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay. Because to some people, the way that I am appears as, once they have the phrase, they're gonna be like, yo, he's got coercive control over her. So, but this is why I'm saying this goes horribly awry. So let me make a pitch. So interesting. I can tell this really bothers you.

• 1:01:50Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:01:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Let's.

• 1:01:52Speaker 02

  So strongly.

• 1:01:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Which is great. I love that. I'm trying to be convincing. I'm not necessarily trying to convince you. That's like my motto in life. Deep Dive coming out next week. Make sure you check it out.

• 1:02:04Speaker 02

  But someone save her, please.

• 1:02:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah. Well, the interesting thing is, I don't know if he's joking, because some of his other comments have been, I think, pretty even-handed. So maybe that's, he's kidding. But we've really heard that in very sincere ways. Okay, so my pitch would be that at like 12, when they separate boys and girls to do sex ed, that you separate them and you tell girls like, hey, this is how the male brain works. And here's this thing called coercive control. And they'll try to get, they'll try to leverage things that you want to slowly walk you down basically a road to hell. And you have to be very careful. So you want to go in knowing what, ahead of time, what am I willing to do? What am I not willing to do? What are my values?

• 1:02:50Tom Bilyeu?

  All of that stuff. That way, you're gonna be inoculated from this. You're young now. This is gonna take time. Talk to your parents, like all that. And then when you pull boys aside, you make them watch Gone Girl. And you say, listen, little girls are amazing. And women are gonna be some of the greatest joys of your life. And I hope that you find one and you build a family and everything's gonna be wonderful. However, you need to understand how women present when they go pathological. Because there is male savagery. You guys all know what that looks like. You punch each other in the face, you stab, you shoot, you kill.

• 1:03:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Women also have savagery and it's reputational. It's behind the scenes. They will spread rumor and innuendo and they will do things to tear you apart. They'll use the legal system, yada, yada, yada. And if you're willing to admit that there's pathology on both sides, then I'm perfectly happy for young men and women to be shown the raw naked brutality of the other sex when they go awry. And that, hey, most people are good people and they want to love and be loved. And hopefully this isn't going to be a problem for you. But we just want to show you what the crazy ones look like and what you need to look out for. Tends to be different for men, tends to be different for women.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  It's not as, I hear what you're saying, so teach both, fine.

• 1:04:08Tom Bilyeu?

  But you think women are way, way, way less prone to be savage in their own way?

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  It's, it's dangerous. So if, ah.

• 1:04:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting. So define danger. Death?

• 1:04:21Speaker 02

  So I would say, we're talking about today's society. If I was to influence you in a way, the, the risks are way worse for women than it is for men.

• 1:04:33Tom Bilyeu?

  When women go savage, they take your money and your kids. That's like the common way that it plays.

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  Sure. And that's horrible. I am not like saying like, oh, it's okay. That's horrible. If the guy didn't deserve it, totally horrible.

• 1:04:47Speaker 02

  But with men, baby, you should see some of this stuff and hear some of this stuff that's coming out about.

• 1:04:55Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, men can be fucking psychopaths.

• 1:04:58Speaker 02

  Is that if you hear the stuff that Diddy did to Cassie?

• 1:05:01Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes.

• 1:05:02Speaker 02

  And you go, she used to be this way and then she ended up doing this stuff.

• 1:05:06Tom Bilyeu?

  Have you heard me in this conversation or ever say, men never break bad? What do you mean?

• 1:05:13Speaker 02

  No, I'm just, the point.

• 1:05:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Do you, do you agree that I think men can be absolute psychopaths?

• 1:05:19Speaker 02

  It's not the same, even if the two people were psychopaths.

• 1:05:21Tom Bilyeu?

  I agree, I agree.

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  The, the damage.

• 1:05:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Let me say very succinctly my problem. Right now I hear you downplaying female savagery. And I'm saying, that's a blindness.

• 1:05:30Speaker 02

  Because it's not as dangerous in the.

• 1:05:32Tom Bilyeu?

  That's what I'm saying. Define danger. Death?

• 1:05:34Speaker 02

  In, in.

• 1:05:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Saying death, granted.

• 1:05:36Speaker 02

  No, that's what I'm, I'm not saying that. So that's why I was like, I don't know if you want me to say the actual things on live about what happened, what Cassie's been saying.

• 1:05:44Tom Bilyeu?

  Look at her trying to censor us, chat. What is happening right now?

• 1:05:48Speaker 02

  For anyone that's got kids, but.

• 1:05:49Tom Bilyeu?

  If you've got kids, now's the time, plug their ears, although I have no idea what you're about to say.

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  Cassie revealed in the cause is so horrifying. The, she had so many mouth sores and he's still like forcing her to give oral sex. She's got, they're pissing in her mouth. I mean, it's just horrifying. I can't even bring myself to say the words. It's so horrifying. And so it, death to you maybe as a man is the worst, but damn, as a woman, if you've been manipulated to go through that type of thing and you've been trafficked and you say, there were text messages where she's saying like, I don't want to do this anymore. I just want to love you. And he uses that as manipulation. Like there's so much deep wounds and trauma

• 1:06:34Speaker 02

  that you're seeing it from the surface of the worst case scenario is death. But let me tell you, if I had gone through what Cassie had gone through, I don't know if that's, uh, if death is worse. Sorry. I don't know if death is, is worse. I.

• 1:06:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, it's two strikes against men in terms of men are far more likely to kill than women. Uh, if I had to put sexual degradation, and I'm not sure what category.

• 1:07:03Speaker 02

  But see, like even God, uh, and we can change subject if you want. I just feel very.

• 1:07:07Tom Bilyeu?

  We're committed at this point. By the way, Chad, we have to stop today at seven thirty.

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  Cassie should have left. Dude, you don't understand coercive control. This is the problem.

• 1:07:18Speaker 02

  She should have left.

• 1:07:19Tom Bilyeu?

  But this, this is where the, I think you keep skipping over a thing. So I would like you to answer directly.

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:07:27Tom Bilyeu?

  At what point is someone responsible for themselves? Diddy was never going to take advantage of me like that. We can agree. But do you, do you really believe that to your bones?

• 1:07:36Speaker 02

  But if you see.

• 1:07:37Tom Bilyeu?

  I just, I, I have to get you to answer the question.

• 1:07:40Speaker 02

  A thousand percent.

• 1:07:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Perfect. Now, when?

• 1:07:44Tom Bilyeu?

  Is somebody responsible for themselves? Are you gonna do it based on they either do or don't have the intelligence?

• 1:07:50Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:07:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so no matter what, it, what if the person has Down syndrome?

• 1:07:55Speaker 02

  But I keep going back to, it feels like the same thing as, let's say, killing. So you're saying, but at what point should someone be responsible?

• 1:08:03Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm just trying to understand.

• 1:08:04Speaker 02

  So at what points should somebody be responsible?

• 1:08:06Tom Bilyeu?

  You have a negative reaction when people say Cassie should have left. Cassie, Cassie should have left.

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:08:11Tom Bilyeu?

  But not, hold on, hold on. Not in ranking order, like, oh, Diddy's fine being a total sociopath. Cassie should have left. Okay, that's terrible.

• 1:08:20Speaker 02

  But that's what people are saying. No one's saying how horrifying.

• 1:08:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Bear with me, bear with me. Bear with me.

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:08:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Cause I'm saying exactly that. He is morally, if, if it's all true.

• 1:08:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:08:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. If those things are true.

• 1:08:34Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:08:34Tom Bilyeu?

  He's morally repugnant.

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:08:37Tom Bilyeu?

  If those things are true, it sounds like there was a lot of laws crossed. Go to jail.

• 1:08:40Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:08:41Tom Bilyeu?

  For a very long time.

• 1:08:43Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:08:44Tom Bilyeu?

  But now just talking about coercive control. Where do we draw the line?

• 1:08:51Speaker 02

  If you, I mean, there's a list. I actually don't have it in front of me, so I didn't realize we wanted to.

• 1:08:55Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, but just ballpark me.

• 1:08:56Speaker 02

  But, but there's a list of this is what, the definition of coercive control. And this is the line. So I just don't have that in front of me. I wish I did, because it would make my argument a lot stronger.

• 1:09:05Tom Bilyeu?

  But there are.

• 1:09:06Speaker 02

  Look it up.

• 1:09:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Non, because to me, if you aren't blackmailing, if you're not. If, if the thing that you're, hold on.

• 1:09:16Speaker 02

  Even just rape, you were saying, where's that line? Like, where are you responsible? So imagine I say.

• 1:09:22Tom Bilyeu?

  I mean, rape has a definition. You either did rape them or did, rape is wrong unequivocally.

• 1:09:26Speaker 02

  But that's what I'm saying.

• 1:09:26Tom Bilyeu?

  You can rape your wife, that's horrible, it doesn't matter.

• 1:09:29Speaker 02

  Correct, babe, that's what I'm saying. Coercive control has those lines. So if you want, I can bring it up next time or I can send it to you.

• 1:09:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Here, here would be all I care about. If something is already illegal and you do said already illegal thing, you now have committed a crime.

• 1:09:43Speaker 02

  Which is why coercive control should be illegal.

• 1:09:45Tom Bilyeu?

  But what I'm saying is.

• 1:09:47Speaker 02

  Definitions of it.

• 1:09:48Tom Bilyeu?

  But there are, I have a feeling that coercive control is built of a bunch of things that aren't illegal. And it's when you do them all in concert that now they say it's illegal. And I'm saying the only reason you would ever say that is because you don't think that that person has the ability to say no. And I'm just saying, uh, that's, that feels wildly problematic in terms of how it will be abused because it is so subjective. Because people aren't going to say, uh, as long as you have an IQ over a hundred and four, you can't be coercively controlled because we expect, or as long as you weren't sexually abused as a child and have an IQ of a hundred four. But do you see how specific it would have to get? And people are going to, I think, just completely derail.

• 1:10:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Because then you're saying, if you were abused as a child and have less than a hundred and four IQ, you don't have agency. You're basically an automaton. And that's where it's like, yikes, this is going to get weird so fast.

• 1:10:42Speaker 02

  So I'm going to go back to, there is a list of definitions of coercive control. And so those will be the signals, um, that accumulate to then this. So it, again, I'm just going to go back to all the other laws, like rape and murder. And you're saying like, at what point is someone responsible? But it's like, if I walk down a dark alley by myself at midnight,

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  I'm still not responsible for getting raped.

• 1:11:12Tom Bilyeu?

  Obviously.

• 1:11:12Speaker 02

  Okay, so that's what I'm saying. There's a fine.

• 1:11:15Tom Bilyeu?

  But wait, wait, wait. Did you think for one second I would be like, well, obviously she shouldn't have been walking down the alley?

• 1:11:21Speaker 02

  Coercive control is the same thing. It's like you're saying it's my responsibility to not get trapped.

• 1:11:28Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so this is where we're now at the level of the tea. I'm gonna eject us out of this conversation because I want to talk to chat about something in terms of how I frame this.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  Lisa is a con job name. What does that even mean? Why am I getting so much hate? This is crazy.

• 1:11:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, first of all, this is my community, so they're gonna be far. They will have resonated with the way that I think about the world enough.

• 1:11:52Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:11:52Tom Bilyeu?

  That your way will seem foreign, just like your audience hates me, which is the great irony of our marriage.

• 1:11:57Speaker 02

  So let me just say then one thing. How would you feel if it was your daughter? You would not be saying this response.

• 1:12:04Tom Bilyeu?

  What do you mean?

• 1:12:05Speaker 02

  If your daughter was coercive controlled. Imagine it was Cassie.

• 1:12:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  So you're sitting in the audience and you're hearing your daughter give this testimony. Are you like, yeah, well, it was her fault.

• 1:12:15Tom Bilyeu?

  No.

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  Right. As a father, would you not be, how did this happen?

• 1:12:20Tom Bilyeu?

  But do you want to open up another portal here? Because, um, listen, would I actually, uh, send myself to jail? Probably not. But the only thing I would be thinking in that moment is how far can I get my foot down his throat? And I would, uh, want desperately to dismantle him at a cellular level. Because we all want to protect, I mean, I, you, my parents, like, are people that fall under what I consider my domain of protection. I must keep you guys safe. And if I were for any reason whatsoever to fail to keep you safe, that would trigger such a deep emotional response from me

• 1:13:03Tom Bilyeu?

  that I don't know that I can be logical in that moment. Uh, so that just is. I'm an animal. At the end of the day, I know that I have triggers and that would be one of them. So when I hear that like, somebody's kid gets raped and they just go kill the rapist, I'm like, yeah, I get it. It's probably not the wisest move, but I actually do understand. So let's separate when I'm the one who is caught up in this mix of I have failed and this is the person that I love most in the world and they have been hurt. So I don't give a fuck about anything other than divine, godlike retribution.

• 1:13:40Tom Bilyeu?

  But I want to now eject us out of this because you and I aren't arguing at the level of base assumptions. I keep trying. My base assumption is that you won't be able to define the point at which somebody is cognitively capable of being responsible for themselves. And that's the only thing that matters. And I think you have a base assumption that you have not thought through, which is that some people can take care of themselves and some can't, but you're not defining it. But anyway, we unfortunately now only have like 13 minutes left. So, dear chat, here is what I will say, because people are breaking into teams, at least at a glance. I haven't read everything. Maybe they, these guys know me so well that hopefully they are not. Someone save time is being encouraged.

• 1:14:22Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 1:14:24Tom Bilyeu?

  I like to think they're just trolling, but it is very important that people learn how to, one, have a conversation. Like if we were going to keep going, this is where I would shift down into, we're not going to talk at the surface at all anymore. We have to talk base assumptions.

• 1:14:41Speaker 02

  And I would bring up the coercive control list because people are saying I'm being very vague. I've repeated.

• 1:14:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, fair enough. And I keep pushing you and you don't have it.

• 1:14:48Speaker 02

  My girl Laura, Laura Richards, who is fighting this.

• 1:14:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Totally.

• 1:14:52Speaker 02

  So I will happily, next time I'm on, I'll bring the list.

• 1:14:55Tom Bilyeu?

  I think honestly, the list doesn't really matter when you get to the level of base assumptions. But hold on, because that part of the conversation, we have to end.

• 1:15:01Speaker 02

  Okay, can I put one?

• 1:15:02Tom Bilyeu?

  Nope.

• 1:15:03Speaker 02

  I think a period on my thought.

• 1:15:05Tom Bilyeu?

  I think it's fine.

• 1:15:06Speaker 02

  If you're a father and.

• 1:15:08Tom Bilyeu?

  I am being coercive control right now. You guys are witnessing it right here. When I'm on the Lisa Bilyeu show, you can put buttons on anything and everything you want.

• 1:15:16Speaker 02

  I'm just saying, as a man, if you really respect women and you really want to keep them safe, we have to find a way around this. There is another PDD right now that's doing it, whether he's got money and fame or not.

• 1:15:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Perfect.

• 1:15:27Speaker 02

  I just say, as a woman, I need your help, men.

• 1:15:28Tom Bilyeu?

  Got it.

• 1:15:29Speaker 02

  We need your help to protect us.

• 1:15:30Tom Bilyeu?

  The only way that you're going to get the help that you want, everybody has to lay out the fullness of this. The problem is everybody is teaming up. You're thinking only about women. Men are thinking only about men. That is the problem. So I would really like to see the community embrace that you're gonna have disagreements with people, that you're, you want to get to the point where they can articulate your position back to you, to the point where you will say, you understand my position perfectly. I don't think I could yet articulate your position in a way that you would say, I understand it perfectly. I know you can't articulate my position in a way that I will say, you understand it perfectly.

• 1:16:12Tom Bilyeu?

  So that would be step one, uh, which you get to by talking about base assumptions. And then at the end of that, if we both go, ah, yeah, you understand me. I understand you. We just still disagree. You've got to be able to find a way to be like, that's cool. Like actually want the tension. I'm glad that we see the world differently. That has served us incredibly well because I'll be able to give you an angle on something that you won't see. You'll be able to give me an angle on something I won't see. This is a huge part of the reason I think evolution has made men and women see things differently. You want that second view. In business, they say if two partners think the same, one of them is irrelevant. And I've always thought that was brilliant.

• 1:16:54Tom Bilyeu?

  What they're trying to get at there is you're not trying to come to the point where you see everything the same. You want people with different personality types, especially your CEO and your COO. You want dynamic tension between the two of vision and execution. Cause they're very different things. They require very different things. And so having people think about that differently is super, super powerful. So yeah, I really think from a modern perspective, boys and girls, we have this problem where people want to be on a tribe. Instead of really going, oh, I can still respect somebody, still love somebody, still spend time with somebody, even though we see this thing very differently. So yeah, that was so fun. I'm horrified that I'm gonna look at the numbers and I don't know, we'll see.

• 1:17:38Tom Bilyeu?

  Maybe the community was into this, maybe they weren't. But this is the kind, like if we did this all the time.

• 1:17:48Tom Bilyeu?

  If this were our relationship theory show, oh my God, for real, for real, for real. Like that, I would be super into that. I know you want to talk about like the hugging and kissing and taking quizzes and all that, but this was fucking interesting.

• 1:18:02Speaker 02

  No, I mean, look, I ultimately, I feel like I am a very strong woman who can definitely stand my ground and we've been together for 25 years. And so in order to be able-

• 1:18:13Tom Bilyeu?

  You stand your ground too much. I'd like to coercively control you a lot more. That's a joke. That's a joke.

• 1:18:19Speaker 02

  People are gonna clip that. So yeah, I mean, look, I, I do very much value your opinions, your thoughts. You push me a lot in my life and that has helped me grow and learn. When it comes to something like this, I am, I am definitely, someone even said like I'm emotional. Yes, I am because I'm spending so much time focused on how do we learn from what just happened with Diddy thing and hearing the stories of Cassie like legitimately makes me want to cry. So I do feel strongly, I do feel emotional because there's just these young women, babe. Like these younger, and I'm sorry, I will stop, but that's why I feel so passionate about this.

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  That's why it's absolutely why I can get, I can get emotional, but I never lose sight of actually trying to make change. And that comes with being able to articulate.

• 1:19:08Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, no, listen, I just want real answers and I think so often people stop at the level of what feels right. And they don't get to, yeah, but this has to become a real thing. Like let's talk about houselessness for a second.

• 1:19:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Why is it that the more you spend on homelessness, the bigger the problem gets? And the answer is very simple. When you take an approach that, and this is what they did in California. They take the approach that, okay, everybody wants a free house. So now you have to have a mechanism by which you determine who gets a house in what order. This is why priorities is always the thing that will reveal your value system. And so the question becomes, who do we give a house to first? And so they called it like housing vulnerability, something like that. And the idea was like, who's most in need of a house? And what they found was, well, if somebody- Is doing drugs, they're most in need. But if you have two people doing drugs and one of them is in treatment and one of them is not,

• 1:20:04Tom Bilyeu?

  the one not in treatment needs the house more than the one in treatment. Uh, if somebody has a job, they don't need it as badly as somebody who doesn't have a job. Uh, so if somebody's mentally ill, so now you get the mentally ill person who's on drugs, not seeking treatment, who gets the house first? And it's like, well, what a surprise. And then, by the way, people will go figure this out. And so they'll come back and be like, hey, I heard that if I'm on drugs, I'm actually more likely to get a house. And they'll say, yes, that's technically true, but we don't really like to think of it like that. Like, we want to see you thriving and on your way up. But the incentive is that if I'm on drugs and not seeking help, that I am legitimately more likely to get a house. So I'm gonna either do drugs or act like I'm doing drugs so that I can get the house.

• 1:20:48Tom Bilyeu?

  Like, show me the incentives and I'll show you the outcome. These systems get so complicated. And this is why I think ultimately the, in the final analysis, you come down to two things. One, some people have to be allowed to fail. And two, um, the right level of analysis is the individual. And so everybody has to take responsibility for themselves. And some people are going to get chewed up in the maw of the complexity of human behavior, is what it is. And so instead of giving a house to the person who's on drugs, uh, not seeking treatment and is mentally ill, you have to do something else. And that something else is probably, uh, it sounds way less compassionate than giving them a free house.

• 1:21:33Tom Bilyeu?

  But in actuality, is the impetus that they need to get their shit together. Now mentally ill people obviously need treatment, so let's start with that. Uh, but you gotta get them off the streets.

• 1:21:44Tom Bilyeu?

  So I get it. People want compassion, but they also want control. And it all gets real weird, real, real fast.

• 1:21:55Tom Bilyeu?

  All right, chat. Unfortunately, we have to wrap up. I've got an episode today, but I do want to make sure that as a community, you guys know what we are up to right now. Because we have changed the channel so much over the last few years. And this is like the experiment to end all experiments. And I want to see if we can build something around the five pillars of content that we go deep in world affairs, politics, economics, etc., etc. The things AI, future tech, the things you guys see us covering all the time in a new format. So the format now is on Mondays, we release something called a deep dive. It is a single topic that we really go ham on. So the second one, so the

• 1:22:37Tom Bilyeu?

  first one came out this Monday, this second one will come out next Monday. Anytime you have topics where you want me, it's a scripted format. So you want to see me go deep on something, definitely put those suggestions forward. Tuesdays, our normal interview episode. I'm actually, the reason we have to end today is because I'm filming an interview episode with somebody I'm very excited about, Joe Lonsdale, going to be talking a lot about China, modern warfare, economic warfare, kinetic warfare, that whole thing, and also the idea of exceptionalism and education and how we get a nation excited about itself again. Very excited about that. But that's Tuesdays. Wednesdays, we go live. Hi. Thursdays, we drop our tight 60. So it's the Tom Bilyeu Show, the five buckets of content like we

• 1:23:21Tom Bilyeu?

  used to do three times a week. And then on Friday, we go live again. And that is the five day schedule. And then every now and then, we'll have clips for Wednesdays, Fridays, Saturday, and Sunday. But that way, there's only one piece of content that goes out. And this is why we take the lives down. So we don't leave them up. So if you want to see them, you've definitely got to watch them while we're here and live. And we start at 6am Wednesdays and Fridays. Though if I can swing it, I think it's going to be important for us to get a Monday up there. But right now, the cadence of just all the things I have to get done is preventing that. But if you guys want to see it, I would love to do it. All right. You guys are amazing. Thank you for being a part of this community. You're incredible.

• 1:24:03Tom Bilyeu?

  Thank you for Lisa being here today. This was a lot of fun. I am always reminded when we do content together that I love it the most. And this is certainly what it's like if you were to see us alone on a Saturday or Sunday. Well, here it is. Much love to you all. Have a wonderful day and we'll see you on Friday. Peace out.

• 1:24:23Speaker 02

  Bye, guys.

• 1:28:07Tom Bilyeu?

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